Do you feel it's wrong?

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03-13-2007
SarahG

Quote:

1. Whenever you do not tell the truth about something, there is something "wrong," period. The question is, however, what is the DEGREE of wrong?

Who said anything about not telling the truth?

I am a girl, if I say I am a girl I am not lying.
03-13-2007
TheGuard

Quote:

Originally Posted by KellyShore

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vala_TS

This question goes back quite a few pages, possibly on another thread.

Kelly, you said something about not being able to have any guy you want because of your cock. So are you saying that you want SRS just to fit in or because it's what your truly want? I'm not trying to mess with you or anything like that, I'm just saying, get SRS because that is what YOU really want, not because you think it'll make you fit in. You'll be full of woes and regret later on if this is the only reason you're doing it.

Vala,

No I am doing it for me..if I could of had the change at age twelve I would of done it. What I was saying is most men wont date me due to it..and wont stay with me because the prejudice and drama that comes with it.

It's a double-edged sword really, and while you're certainly starting off worse with 'pre-set' impedments to finding a partner, it's still an utterly difficult task to find the right person, especially if you value yourself and aren't willing to compromise. Point is, sure you may have it worse, but it's a difficult thing for everyone, just hang in there.
03-13-2007
MrsKellyPierce

Quote:

Originally Posted by olite71

I voted "yes." And my reasoning is as follows:

1. Whenever you do not tell the truth about something, there is something "wrong," period. The question is, however, what is the DEGREE of wrong?

2. The degree depends somewhat on the result. And the result depends on the circumstances and how you feel and the other person feels at the time. If you see the person is merely flirting and is looking for adventure, well then maybe the deception won't lead to anything more than a sligtly more than harmless misunderstanding.

3. But if you realize that the person is seriously into the object of the deception, then you might be setting them up for a serious fall--the degree of wrong here is heigtened.

4. The problem with this degree thing, however, is that it requires you to be somewhat of a mind reader and in doing so you inevitably find yourself treading out on thin ice more often than you'd maybe want to.

5. As a consequence, the safest course is to avoid any degree of "wrong" at all times... But that ain't fun, is it?

6. Still---just how "wrong" it is depends on your own sensibilities and the context of the encounter. Ever notice how when a man with a girlfiend meets an attractive woman he does not mention his girlfirend---it's because he is indulging a fantasy at the expense of this newly met attractive creature. On the other hand, when he meets someone unattractive (to him) he talks about his girlfriend with immediate dispatch... Thus he uses deception when he wants to gratify a fantasy and maintain the possibility of sexual tension--but it is only on his terms.... Whenever two people meet and a deception is being maintained to create an attraction on only one of the person's terms at the expense of the other--there is something wrong about that---in my opinion.

Listen here buster..I've been living as a girl for 12 long years..out in public..going to school..going to work....relationships..etc I think I have the damn right to say I am a girl..and not have to say HEY I USED TO BE A GUY to the world. It's not about that when we first start talking anyways it's a conversation..it's not like I'm marrying the guy or even going on a date with the guy. I am talking to him, but when he suggests for intimate things...I tell him whats up! Can we stop taking things out of CONTEXT please!
03-13-2007
olite71

Quote:

Originally Posted by SarahG

Quote:

1. Whenever you do not tell the truth about something, there is something "wrong," period. The question is, however, what is the DEGREE of wrong?

Who said anything about not telling the truth?

I am a girl, if I say I am a girl I am not lying.

Well if you say you are a girl, and you have a penis, and you fully expect that the listener's underdstanding of the definition of "girl" is someone with a penis, then you are right.

The question is, is that the listener's understanding of the word "girl?" If not, then you are not telling the truth.

Because if that's the truth--then the truth is whatever you believe it to be. But the world cannot function that way. There has to be some kind of objective consensus on definitions of things---maybe in the future the objective consensus will be that T-girls are "girls" per se. But at this time, I don't think we have that consensus.
03-13-2007
MrsKellyPierce

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuard

Quote:

Originally Posted by KellyShore

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vala_TS

This question goes back quite a few pages, possibly on another thread.

Kelly, you said something about not being able to have any guy you want because of your cock. So are you saying that you want SRS just to fit in or because it's what your truly want? I'm not trying to mess with you or anything like that, I'm just saying, get SRS because that is what YOU really want, not because you think it'll make you fit in. You'll be full of woes and regret later on if this is the only reason you're doing it.

Vala,

No I am doing it for me..if I could of had the change at age twelve I would of done it. What I was saying is most men wont date me due to it..and wont stay with me because the prejudice and drama that comes with it.

It's a double-edged sword really, and while you're certainly starting off worse with 'pre-set' impedments to finding a partner, it's still an utterly difficult task to find the right person, especially if you value yourself and aren't willing to compromise. Point is, sure you may have it worse, but it's a difficult thing for everyone, just hang in there.

The guard please I was not looking for sympathy..I was just stating my reasoning. I have come to grips with why my relationships didn't work out. It wasn't because of me as a person. It was because of what I had downstairs.
03-13-2007
MrsKellyPierce

Quote:

Originally Posted by olite71

Quote:

Originally Posted by SarahG

Quote:

1. Whenever you do not tell the truth about something, there is something "wrong," period. The question is, however, what is the DEGREE of wrong?

Who said anything about not telling the truth?

I am a girl, if I say I am a girl I am not lying.

Well if you say you are a girl, and you have a penis, and you fully expect that the listener's underdstanding of the definition of "girl" is someone with a penis, then you are right.

The question is, is that the listener's understanding of the word "girl?" If not, then you are not telling the truth.

Because if that's the truth--then the truth is whatever you believe it to be. But the world cannot function that way. There has to be some kind of objective consensus on definitions of things---maybe in the future the objective consensus will be that T-girls are "girls" per se. But at this time, I don't think we have that consensus.

Olite lying would be...if the guy asks in the first sentence or second sentence.. Did you used to be a man? And then you reply NO..thats lying and deceit.
03-13-2007
SarahG

Quote:

Originally Posted by olite71

Well if you say you are a girl, and you have a penis, and you fully expect that the listener's underdstanding of the definition of "girl" is someone with a penis, then you are right.

The question is, is that the listener's understanding of the word "girl?" If not, then you are not telling the truth.

Because if that's the truth--then the truth is whatever you believe it to be. But the world cannot function that way. There has to be some kind of objective consensus on definitions of things---maybe in the future the objective consensus will be that T-girls are "girls" per se. But at this time, I don't think we have that consensus.

I don't see that as valid logic.... you are assuming the other person's definitions are accurate or comprehensive... which is not always the case.

Lying is intentionally saying something you yourself know to be false (or so has been my impression). Since I know I am a girl, I am not intentionally giving false information by saying that I am a girl.
03-13-2007
TheGuard

Quote:

Originally Posted by KellyShore

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGuard

Quote:

Originally Posted by KellyShore

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vala_TS

This question goes back quite a few pages, possibly on another thread.

Kelly, you said something about not being able to have any guy you want because of your cock. So are you saying that you want SRS just to fit in or because it's what your truly want? I'm not trying to mess with you or anything like that, I'm just saying, get SRS because that is what YOU really want, not because you think it'll make you fit in. You'll be full of woes and regret later on if this is the only reason you're doing it.

Vala,

No I am doing it for me..if I could of had the change at age twelve I would of done it. What I was saying is most men wont date me due to it..and wont stay with me because the prejudice and drama that comes with it.

It's a double-edged sword really, and while you're certainly starting off worse with 'pre-set' impedments to finding a partner, it's still an utterly difficult task to find the right person, especially if you value yourself and aren't willing to compromise. Point is, sure you may have it worse, but it's a difficult thing for everyone, just hang in there.

The guard please I was not looking for sympathy..I was just stating my reasoning. I have come to grips with why my relationships didn't work out. It wasn't because of me as a person. It was because of what I had downstairs.

No, not sympathy - It's just I can understand where you'd have a certain amount of frustration given a catch-22 type of situation to your dating life, that's all. Christ, I'm disillusioned after growing sick of vapid sorority girls - just makes my dating problems seem trivial. So thanks for that :lol: (thought I'd asshole it up after the gayass sympathy)
03-13-2007
olite71

Quote:

Originally Posted by KellyShore

Quote:

Originally Posted by olite71

I voted "yes." And my reasoning is as follows:

1. Whenever you do not tell the truth about something, there is something "wrong," period. The question is, however, what is the DEGREE of wrong?

2. The degree depends somewhat on the result. And the result depends on the circumstances and how you feel and the other person feels at the time. If you see the person is merely flirting and is looking for adventure, well then maybe the deception won't lead to anything more than a sligtly more than harmless misunderstanding.

3. But if you realize that the person is seriously into the object of the deception, then you might be setting them up for a serious fall--the degree of wrong here is heigtened.

4. The problem with this degree thing, however, is that it requires you to be somewhat of a mind reader and in doing so you inevitably find yourself treading out on thin ice more often than you'd maybe want to.

5. As a consequence, the safest course is to avoid any degree of "wrong" at all times... But that ain't fun, is it?

6. Still---just how "wrong" it is depends on your own sensibilities and the context of the encounter. Ever notice how when a man with a girlfiend meets an attractive woman he does not mention his girlfirend---it's because he is indulging a fantasy at the expense of this newly met attractive creature. On the other hand, when he meets someone unattractive (to him) he talks about his girlfriend with immediate dispatch... Thus he uses deception when he wants to gratify a fantasy and maintain the possibility of sexual tension--but it is only on his terms.... Whenever two people meet and a deception is being maintained to create an attraction on only one of the person's terms at the expense of the other--there is something wrong about that---in my opinion.

Listen here buster..I've been living as a girl for 12 long years..out in public..going to school..going to work....relationships..etc I think I have the damn right to say I am a girl..and not have to say HEY I USED TO BE A GUY to the world. It's not about that when we first start talking anyways it's a conversation..it's not like I'm marrying the guy or even going on a date with the guy. I am talking to him, but when he suggests for intimate things...I tell him whats up! Can we stop taking things out of CONTEXT please!

If you are so certain about your "damned" right" would have never have started this thread. This thread suggests that you feel misgivings about it.

And I did not take anything out of context. If you think that all your dates out there who are male define a "girl" as someone with a penis--then you have every right to call yourself a girl and not think you are lying about it.

But do you really believe that? And you are right about what you're rights are--but rights are not in a vacuum--when your right to say something may mislead somebody your rights clash with their rights.

Does a man who calls you and defines girls as only "biological girls" have the right to be told that? That is the question.

It is interesting that you say "out of context" because the behavior you describe is taken "out of the context"....You are taking yourself, out of the context of the rights of those who are relying on the information you give them, instead saying: "I have the right to say I'm a girl," no matter what rights they have to rely on what you say.

You see everything changes when another person's rights and expectations are broght to bear. Sure in a vacuum you have the right to sing to the heavens that you are a girl---I have no disagreement with that whatsoever.
03-13-2007
MrsKellyPierce

Quote:

Originally Posted by olite71

Quote:

Originally Posted by KellyShore

Quote:

Originally Posted by olite71

I voted "yes." And my reasoning is as follows:

1. Whenever you do not tell the truth about something, there is something "wrong," period. The question is, however, what is the DEGREE of wrong?

2. The degree depends somewhat on the result. And the result depends on the circumstances and how you feel and the other person feels at the time. If you see the person is merely flirting and is looking for adventure, well then maybe the deception won't lead to anything more than a sligtly more than harmless misunderstanding.

3. But if you realize that the person is seriously into the object of the deception, then you might be setting them up for a serious fall--the degree of wrong here is heigtened.

4. The problem with this degree thing, however, is that it requires you to be somewhat of a mind reader and in doing so you inevitably find yourself treading out on thin ice more often than you'd maybe want to.

5. As a consequence, the safest course is to avoid any degree of "wrong" at all times... But that ain't fun, is it?

6. Still---just how "wrong" it is depends on your own sensibilities and the context of the encounter. Ever notice how when a man with a girlfiend meets an attractive woman he does not mention his girlfirend---it's because he is indulging a fantasy at the expense of this newly met attractive creature. On the other hand, when he meets someone unattractive (to him) he talks about his girlfriend with immediate dispatch... Thus he uses deception when he wants to gratify a fantasy and maintain the possibility of sexual tension--but it is only on his terms.... Whenever two people meet and a deception is being maintained to create an attraction on only one of the person's terms at the expense of the other--there is something wrong about that---in my opinion.

Listen here buster..I've been living as a girl for 12 long years..out in public..going to school..going to work....relationships..etc I think I have the damn right to say I am a girl..and not have to say HEY I USED TO BE A GUY to the world. It's not about that when we first start talking anyways it's a conversation..it's not like I'm marrying the guy or even going on a date with the guy. I am talking to him, but when he suggests for intimate things...I tell him whats up! Can we stop taking things out of CONTEXT please!

If you are so certain about your "damned" right" would have never have started this thread. This thread suggests that you feel misgivings about it.

And I did not take anything out of context. If you think that all your dates out there who are male define a "girl" as someone with a penis--then you have every right to call yourself a girl and not think you are lying about it.

But do you really believe that? And you are right about what you're rights are--but rights are not in a vacuum--when your right to say something may mislead somebody your rights clash with their rights.

Does a man who calls you and defines girls as only "biological girls" have the right to be told that? That is the question.

It is interesting that you say "out of context" because the behavior you describe is taken "out of the context"....You are taking yourself, out of the context of the rights of those who are relying on the information you give them, instead saying: "I have the right to say I'm a girl," no matter what rights they have to rely on what you say.

You see everything changes when another person's rights and expectations are broght to bear. Sure in a vacuum you have the right to sing to the heavens that you are a girl---I have no disagreement with that whatsoever.

Olite you really put too much into the internet sweety, I made the thread for people's opinion. I do what I do with out others making it for me. I just wanted to start a topic that may be interesting to others. And see if girls did the same.

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