17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

The only injuries Zimmerman had from getting his ass kicked were cuts to the back of his head. I don't buy for a minute a 158# teen is capable of inflicting grievous injuries or death with only his fists.

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I don't think that your statement is accurate. I've read where emergency workers cleaned Zimmerman up in the police car and noted abbrasions and bruises on his face. They also said he had a broken nose. This isn't Zimmerman saying that his nose was broken, this is the EMT saying that his nose was 'broken'.

Also, if Zimmerman is losing the fight how does he know that Trayvon (the honor student) isn't going to grab an object and finish the job? Maybe Trayvon can't kill him with his fists but if Zimmerman goes unconsious (not impossible) then there is no telling what Trayvon could/would have done. What if Trayvon repeatedly kicked him in the head? That could cause grievous injury. In a fist fight, you can't assume what any outcome is going to be (unless you are Kimbo Slice).

Maybe he should've waited to see if Trayvon actually grabbed an object before he pulled the trigger. We're there any objects in reach at the crime scene. The police did a piss poor job of investigation. Why? Because they took Zimmerman's word that he feared for his life! That may be good enough for supporters of SYG, but no law is just that allows you to kill someone because you were afraid. The criteria should not be that you feared for your life but rather that your life was in fact under threat. The first is just a state of mind any coward might find himself in; the second is an actual state of the physical world.

@giovanni_hotel,

Per the florida statute, deadly force being used in self defense is justified when:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

If Martin in fact was on top of Zimmerman and repeatedly punching him in the face, I would expect that "great bodily harm" is a reasonable concern.

It is clear that Angela Corey does have higher political aspirations... there is an aspect of her charging I cannot get my mind around... I believe the police originally thought negligent manslaughter was the correct charge, while the original prosecutor didn't see anything at all to charge, there is a rather large gap between nothing and second-degree murder.

Does she think she can win a second-degree murder conviction? Perhaps

Would she accept a conviction on a lesser charge or a plea agreement? Probably

Is she trying to use this case to bolster her political ambitions? Absolutely.

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Originally Posted by trish

If Zimmerman hadn't had a gun that night two people would've would've have left the scene with their lives instead of one. You're an stupid idiot to be claiming that's a worse scenario than what actually happened. Guns are designed to kill. You carry one at every body else's risk.

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I never said that both men walking away would be a 'worse scenario'... I said "the situation would be very different right now, reversed in fact"... with Martin charged and easily convicted of aggravated assault.

More so... I'm sorry to hear that you aren't a fan of the second amendment, the fact that individuals in this country have long enjoyed the right to carry a firearm for the protection of themselves and their property... something which has long been codified into law as well as been routinely upheld by the courts.

Of course, your opinion on such a thing is irrelevant as millions of people in this county own firearms, many have permits to carry concealed and do... and by some bizarre miracle, we don't have massive gun violence from these legal owners.

Odd that, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by trish

Maybe he should've waited to see if Trayvon actually grabbed an object before he pulled the trigger. We're there any objects in reach at the crime scene. The police did a piss poor job of investigation. Why? Because they took Zimmerman's word that he feared for his life! That may be good enough for supporters of SYG, but no law is just that allows you to kill someone because you were afraid. The criteria should not be that you feared for your life but rather that your life was in fact under threat. The first is just a state of mind any coward might find himself in; the second is an actual state of the physical world.

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I don't disagree w/ you - you make some valid points. Still, Zimmerman can't assume that Trayvon (or anybody) would necessarily stop beating him under any circumstance. Maybe there was no object nearby for Trayvon to use but that doesn't mean he couldn't have kicked Zimmerman in the head if Zimmerman was unable to continue. Again, I don't know that this is what happened - I'm just saying that people have made assumptions as to the outcome of the fight (given Trayvons age and weight) and it is completely wrong to do so.

Again, it doesn't matter what Zimmerman thought Trayvon might do, it matters what Trayvon did and didn't do and Trayon didn't beat Zimmermann to within one light year of his life, let alone an inch.

Maybe because he was shot... :shrug:

Maybe doesn't cut it. Again, the point is you cannot let people shoot and kill on the basis of a remote maybe.

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Originally Posted by trish

Maybe doesn't cut it. Again, the point is you cannot let people shoot and kill on the basis of a remote maybe.

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You realize you are saying that Martin would have to shoot AND hit Zimmerman first before under your system Zimmerman would be able to shoot in self-defense.

By your logic... if Martin saying "I've got a gun!" wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because it's only a claim.

By your logic... if Martin were display a gun, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because it's only being shown.

By your logic... if Martin were point a gun at Zimmerman's little toe, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because the little toe isn't a vital body part.

By your logic... if Martin were point a gun at Zimmerman's chest, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because despite being loaded with a round chambered and the safety off... the trigger has not been pulled, so still no direct threat to Zimmerman's life.

By your logic... if Martin were to fire a BB or pellet gun at Zimmerman, it wouldn't be a threat to Zimmerman because neither projectile has enough force or chance of killing Zimmerman.

By your logic... Zimmerman could only shoot in self-defense if he himself had already been terminally wounded by a bullet from Martin... of course, how is Zimmerman to know if he's about to die or not? Maybe he will survive with quick treatment... can he still put the trigger then?

How far down this slippery slope do you really want to go?

I don't buy into the weakness of a 158 lb teenager. Back 42 years ago I wrestled in the 157 lb weight class (weighing 152) and I was 6' 2" at 15 years of age. The kids I wrestled were extremely strong. Many capable of military pressing more than their bodyweight. They could demolish the average adult male.

I don't know what happened, but underestimate the strenght of a teenager at your own peril.

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Originally Posted by fastingforlife

I don't buy into the weakness of a 158 lb teenager. Back 42 years ago I wrestled in the 157 lb weight class (weighing 152) and I was 6' 2" at 15 years of age. The kids I wrestled were extremely strong. Many capable of military pressing more than their bodyweight. They could demolish the average adult male.

I don't know what happened, but underestimate the strenght of a teenager at your own peril.

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he was also a football player