If someone broke into my house or stole my land I have every right to do as I choose to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by russtafa
Printable View
If someone broke into my house or stole my land I have every right to do as I choose to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by russtafa
Facts
Baby...you got a jaded view of reality and history. You conveniently omit the part about the 3 wars the Arabs waged on Israel, and lost all 3. Israelis spilled blood in the deserting defeating the Arabs....why the fuck should they give it back? Did we give back Texas? lol You also have a selective sense of history. Google the Oslo accords when Arafat had it all....and walked away from the negoiations. Why? My guess is once a terrorist always a terrorist, and his political power could only be maintained through constant upheaval, and fueled by a hatred for Israel. He cared more about his personal power and ambitions than bargaining for a lasting peace. Peace would have meant a loss of his political power. If you're gonna tell a story baby....tell the whole story. You give credence to the notion that Europe is full of anti Semites.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heather Moorland
Israel as we know it was created at the end of WWII in a bid to stabilize the middle east.
Let's talk realpolitik.
Theodor Herzl was not the first who wanted to separate out the Jews from other people. It is very much a part of the jewish religion to be seperate from any other. That attitude has been discribed as far back as there is accounts of the jewish religion. Roman, Greek, Egyptian records all describe the jews as wanting to keep them selves distinct from other people.
Try to read Jan Assmann; "Moses the Egyptian" and "Monotheism and the language of violence"
The jewish god and the Holocaust has a lot to do wuith the creation of Israel. With out the claims of the bible and it would not have been created in exactly that place. The holocaust very much acted as an excuse and the jews was soon to exploit "the bad concience" of the europeans.
Israel may be a political fact but so was the cruxiaderes in the medieval times and they eventually had to go.
that means stalemateQuote:
Originally Posted by Dino Velvet
Look here honny I dont write about rigth and wrong here, good or evil. I let the jews, muslims and christians do that. The belief in "good" and "evil" is the ultimate supersticion.Quote:
Originally Posted by onmyknees
What I am talking about is the law of nature that we know of as "Action equals reaction." It is a law that is not only aplicable to rockets. It also guides peoples behaveour towarts oneanother. We can allso call it action and consequence. It works like this; When I step in your sand castle you become sad, start to cry. Then you get mad and try the best you can to step in my sandcastle. Then I get mad and step back into yours.
That is the way the world are and I am not talking ethics or how it should be.
Now you can claim that you dont want to give back Texas to Mexico (I soppose you didnt mean the indians) But that is only important aslong as your neuclear mesiles is in working order. The day the Mexican army is strong enough to take it back (possibly with the help of the chineese) it doesn't matter what you think.
Israel is not your ally, not your friend. Take that FOX News dick out of your mouth and read a book or something. Learn about your culture, your history, not some warmed over propaganda designed to support destroying your own country for murderous and stupid and immoral foreign wars fought on behalf of a paranoid undeclared nuclear power that has spent decades spying on and corrupting what is left of the legitimate US government.Quote:
Originally Posted by onmyknees
I thought Jehovah, Jesus' Dad and Allah got together 1947 and flipped a coin for Palestine and Jehovah won the toss.
BTW the newest GOP plan is to line the southern border with trampoline ball rebounders. Those Mexican mesiles (missiles?) are going right back to start.
So you are dismissing the genocidal, organised murder of 6,000,000 people as an "excuse"? That's obscene.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heather Moorland
what a joke read these posts after a month no one still has any clue why the person next to them are protesting or what they are about. I think its a bunch of people who could have used a good 4h program when they were growing up. Im not right or left or even political but ive never seen a more goofy protest about nothing in my life. Well see how serious they are when the first snows come and they camp out in 20 degree weather then we'll know if your serious. Until then its just like a big line waiting for concert tickets to go on sale.
I think 99% sums it up rather nicely. What don't you understand about that?? They don't want a flat tax. They don't want corporate rule. They don't want their country to be ruled by those who are so rich their political influence cannot be denied. They do want a free market with reasonable regulative protections. They do want their fair share of the commons.
You conveniently omit the part about the 3 wars the Arabs waged on Israel, and lost all 3. Israelis spilled blood in the deserting defeating the Arabs....why the fuck should they give it back? Did we give back Texas? lol You also have a selective sense of history. Google the Oslo accords when Arafat had it all....and walked away from the negoiations
Get your facts right, onmyknees: 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973: that makes four wars, not three (cf Sydney Bailey, Four Arab-Israeli Wars and the Peace Process, 1990). Of those wars, most of the fighting was done in urban areas, not the 'deserting'. The notion of to the victor goes the spoils is a curious one, and a political dead end, almost literally.
When Hussein ibn Ali, the Hashemite ruler of Mecca and Medina in 1918 complained that the British had reneged on the 1915 agreement to grant the Arabs independence in the Arab lands of the Ottoman Empire, Churchill exploded in a rage: HE DIDN'T THE WAR WE DID! and conveniently ignored that sideshow known as The Arab Revolt. When the King-Crane Commission from the USA visited Syria in 1919 the Arabs told them they wanted to determine their own future, instead they got the French, who marched in at the point of a gun, BUT: winning the war doesn't mean winning the peace: the French Mandate fought one insurrection after another; Iraq exploded in 1919; Palestine became a nightmare for the British.
And Israel: Maxim Ghilan (in How Israel Lost its Soul, 1974) was one of the first Jews to argue that by taking over the West Bank and Gaza and with it nearly a million hostile Arabs Israel was creating a relationship of violence that was a mockery of the essentially humanitarian principles he believed had informed zionism in its early years, and particularly the Labour Zionism that saw Israel as one giant Kibbutz.
The programme of enforced settlement that followed 1967 offered nothing to the Arabs who lived on either the West Bank or Gaza, in fact all investment in those areas has been motivated by 'facts on the ground' as long as they were not Arab, ie settlements at beneficial rates to mostly foreign and proportionately a lot of Americans, reminiscent of Chaim Weizmann's claim earlier on in the 20th century: if they give us land the size of a tablecloth, we will take it, and build on it.
Politics, when it succeeds, is about compromise this goes for Republicand Democrats, Occupy Wall Street and Capitalism; and which in Israel/Palestine must mean Land and Immigration, the two cardinal issues that shaped the modern state. Arafat was indeed a selfish man, and a disaster for the Palestinians, but even Mr Palestine could not sign away what few rights the Arabs had left, and both the Israelis and Bill Clinton knew this. Had Israel just won those wars -three of which it started- and everyone else just gone away, you might be right, but wars have legacies, and the four wars have not dealt with a fundamental issue: nationalism, and its poisonous destruction of human rights. It is not about anti-Semitism, or God and the Bible; it is not about David and Solomon, or Jesus, Mary, Joseph and the Donkey, it is about politics, and the politics that doesn't work.
See that's the problem...."FAIR" ! Who promises life is going to be fair? Please tell me what entity does that. What you and these folks want is equal outcomes...not equal opportunities....thus your use of the word "fair". That's precisely what Greece attempted to do. Level the playing field for those who just couldn't make it for whatever their tale of whoa was. Greece may turn into Libya before it's over. For the vast majority of us, you make your own breaks and carve our life out of the pie, and have no beef with the government looking after those that can't do that for themselves. I never really looked at friends who were trust fund babies with envy or felt that some of what they have should be given to me out of some arbitration of fairness, but apparently most of these protestors do. That greatest generation thing....that's in the rear view mirror. I've heard you tell of your grandfather in the CCC back in the 30's. Did he spend his day whining about some rich guys and how he wanted his share of their spoils? I doubt it. He worked his ass off and provided as best he could for his family is my guess, just as my grandfather dug the NYC sewers with a shovel. Ours has become a nation of slackers, whiners ,wanters, I phone toting, envy ridden fools. I admire their ambition to protest, but they're not foolin' me for a second. The vast majority of these folks want something much closer to Greece (including the anarchy) than they do a free market democracy. Small wonder why every guy with a landscaping truck and lawn mower has brown skin, cause he's the only one who's going to do that job.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
American author and journalist Chris Hedges:
Chris Hedges on Chomsky, Dostoevsky and democracy at Occupy Wall Street -- 10/9/11 - YouTube
The entity that promises fair treatment is government of, by and for the people. A principle function of government is to provide justice, just laws, just regulation and just application of the law. Justice in paraphrase is fairness.
You mean God and Yahoova fliped coins? I always expectet him to have a serious personality disorder but that he is also scitzofrenic thats interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
No I don't dismiss or deni the nazi camps. What I find obscene is that the Zionists have abused the death of 6,000,000 people in their propaganda to legitimise their own crimes against humanity.Quote:
Originally Posted by robertlouis
This I believe was the founders' intent, but before the ink was dry (maybe even before it was applied) people with money were trying to buy favors and use money to influence things. It is that problem which is motivating much of the protesting going on right now. The wealth concentrated in Wall Street is being used to prevent stronger regulation of our financial sector so that the nitwits might stop their gambling with this country's economy. And at this point it doesn't matter which party is in power, since Wall Street can afford to pay great sums to both.:geek:Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
I think we agree, BigDF. I see no peaceful fix other than grassroots pressure to reinstate regulations on banks and corporations, reinstate the inheritance tax and elect judges and/or officials who will appoint judges who will reverse in effect the supreme court decision to treat corporations as people in relation to campaign financing.
Why? That money was taxed already.Why tax it again? That would hurt alot of hard working families that want to give something to there kids when they die.Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
Good point Jersey, but trish very well knows the death tax has already been reinstated as of Jan 1 of this year.
And what 99%, man I laugh every time I hear one of the stinky hippies use that term. At BEST, they are .0002%. They are the fringe few, and the rest of us are loving all the entertainment we get from them. Toe sniffers anyone? How about some urine labeled as "energy drink".. lol.. oh maybe a mentally handicapped rapist for you?
Just a question: what does bailing out, say, the banks have to do with capitalism?Quote:
Originally Posted by onmyknees
And we don't live in a so-called free market. A free market means: no state intervention. None. I mean, we could've tried it right from the get-go, at the founding of our nation.
It would've been interesting to see NO government intervention in the economy. America would be a radically different place. No government. No President. No Congress. No government spending. No government protection for the rich.... Yep! It would've been a radically different place the ol' U.S. of A.
And capitalism is: investing money to make money by those who have money. Which is the antithesis of democracy.
And I'm talking about meaningful democracy. An actual democratic country would be quite different.
A democracy would actually have (as most Americans want this, if you look at public opinion polls): higher taxes on the rich and corporations, universal health care provided by the government. Most Americans want to be in a Union.
Most Americans recognize that there's too much power concentrated in the hands of a few big businesses. Most Americans think corporations make too much profit. Most Americans agree that differences in incomes are too large.
One gets an entirely different view of America when one actually looks at public polling, public opinion polls. It's quite different from what we're being fed by the mainstream press.
Most Americans are not way to the right. And they aren't way to the left. They're compassionate, sensible and moral... :)
All money has been taxed over and over again. The twenty in my purse has exchanged hands over and over again and each time there was likely a tax. Cain's sales tax will tax the same dollar over and over again every time it's used to buy something. Complaining that money was already taxed is not an argument. To be accurate, money isn't ever taxed. Transactions and transfers are taxed. Moreover the inheritance tax never affected anything as small as small businesses, small farms, family homes etc. I doubt if there are many people on these boards who ever have to worry about it.
The people occupying wall street represent the 99% of Americans who have had half their wealth stolen, in some cases their very homes stolen, by huge commercial banks and their political power stolen by lobbyists for giant corporations. Faldur, you just belong to the .0002% to stupid to know when they're being taken and by whom. Stop believing everything you see on Fox Snooze.
So explain to me how 50,000 divided up between 50 states, and darling I am being generous in that figure. How 50,000 represent 300,340,050? How does that happen? Did they get proxy by notary?Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
So when the Tea Party meets with similar numbers, they represent the 99% also. Or is it just you who determines that? Frankly Trish, the nation is laughing at these fools. Gotta admit its good entertainment.
Believe it or not, I'm actually pro-estate tax myself. It's aimed at the rich, and more importantly, the deceased rich. They're dead. What do they need all that money for?! I'm also for the cap gains tax. Tax the rich, feed the poor. Dead people and money should not be able to make even more money so easily at the expense of the living and destitute.
For the middle class and lower though, and for the working rich, I think tax rates should be absolutely minimal. If you work for your money, you shouldn't pay taxes, but if your money produces more money, or you're in the ground, you should. It's about effort, not net worth or posthumous working capital. :geek:
~BB~
I'm sure republicans and tea party members LOL at them. Everybody else probably not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faldur
Don't forget Obama though. He thinks all opposition to him is a joke, which, by the way, is the traditional reaction to dissidence from a dictator. :geek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Silcc69
~BB~
Well only 37% showed any sign of support in the polls, (funny thats about the same number as Obbummer gets), good news republicans and Tea Party members make up 63% of the population!Quote:
Originally Posted by Silcc69
Both parties have terrible poll numbers, people are clearly pissed off about both parties but will simply vote the status quo anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Faldur
The police removed protesters in Sydney,so all the protesters will go back to university
Too all people who say to tax the rich more, how much money is rich in ur eyes? What someone who makes in a year.
I assume you don't mean literally....Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
If that is what he thinks...he may be right. have you seen who the Republicans are running ? (and yes,..I usually vote conservative). he's had a great 2011 in the Mid East (got Bin Laden...helped get rid of Khadafy with no American casualties, etc.....gotta give him his props there)...I think he sucks on the economy but the opposing slate doesn't sound much better. (Gingrich seems to have the highest I.Q. , but he has the personality of a serial killer...and regardless how many Libertarians love Ron Paul - there is no way that he is fit to run a country).Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaBellucci
...forgot to mention...no way in holy hell I'm voting for a Mormon.
I agree...but the parties will then need to sway the Independents...and try to keep their constituents from staying home on Election Day (usually by trying last minute scare tactics)Quote:
Originally Posted by Silcc69
The best political post of the year.Quote:
Originally Posted by fred41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faldur
Let's try to keep the polling discussions fact-based for a change. According to a Time Magazine poll a majority of people (54%) support the OWS movement,' twice the number of Americans who support the extremist Tea Party (27%). And it looks like people are finally catching on as now more people oppose the Tea Party than support it.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/time-...the-tea-party/
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluegrassCat
Nice try, BC- good luck getting fact to merge with the interwebz!
And hey- can we start calling them "teabaggers"? Seems like a more accurate description. It's the Koch brothers' balls being dipped, you know. . . .I bet 90% of the teabaggers don't even know who those guys are.