Donald Trump Presidency-Day One

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Originally Posted by yodajazz

As a spiritual person, i see a spiritual issue here. It can boil down to a simple issue of positive thinking vs negative thinking.

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I understand the point you are making, and would refer back to the 2008 election in comparison with 2016, because I take the view that the voters don't want to hear bad things, but good things. I was right about 2008, wrong about 2016, even though in numerical terms, the Republican campaign of complaint lost to the Democrat more positive vision by nearly 3 million votes.

In 2008 there were very real events that were negative -the financial crash, the consequence of regime change in Iraq, to name just two- and the message of hope that Obama proclaimed was designed to retrieve from those failures an alternative vision of what Americans could do to be different, to repair their financial system, to be more cautious in international relations, and focus on the future.

That Obama was not always able to achieve what he set out to achieve is not his fault unless you blame him for not being more aggressive or innovative in his policies, on the Middle East in particular. That said, there is a sorry history of US Presidents determined to 'make a difference' in the Middle East who ended up, as all are fated to do, being recruited by one side or another for their own purposes, damaging the US whatever it does.

What was disturbing about 2016, and continues to disturb, is the sheer volume of negative comments, the relentless attacks, the extraordinary language used to demonize opponents. Nothing as bad as 2008 happened to the US during the Obama Presidency, yet one would think from the campaign rhetoric that the USA was on the verge of collapse and only one man could save it. The attacks are extraordinary because of the depiction of opponents as liars and traitors, for no other reason than they are opponents.

It is true that this kind of partisan warfare was used by Newton Gingrich to attack Bill Clinton and the Democrats in the 1990s, and that Mitch McConnell has taken it to new levels, or depths, but I think while you may be right to imply a 'spiritual' anxiety at work, I think it needs to be fleshed out more, because a lot of the issues that appear in the Republican narrative of 'what went wrong' reach back through Obama and Clinton to the Civil Rights era of the 1960s but for some, to the Civil War, so that it may be the odd fact -odd to most of us who live outside the USA- that religion can be manipulated for political purposes because it matters so much to Americans, yet appears also to be irrational rather than spiritual. You have to marvel at the way in which Abortion becomes a 'Pro-Life' issue with the 'sanctity of human life' at its core, from people who don't blink when aborting a life with a drone in Afghanistan, Pakistan or the Yemen, as well as shooting dead unarmed men based on a moment's irrational fear.When Trotsky ridiculed opponents of Bolshevik Revolution with the words (translations vary) We must rid ourselves once and for all of the Quaker-Papist babble about the sanctity of human life, he might well have been speaking for today's Republicans.

If you compare the USA with the Republic of Ireland, you find that one of the most dependable Roman Catholic countries in the world has in the last 10 years been transformed by a population that either just does not believe with the fervour it once did, or has become disillusioned with a religious institution that has failed its congregations, not just through sexual abuse involving the clergy, but the revelations of the fierce, brutal conditions children were subjected to in Catholic Schools. Not long ago I found myself chatting to an Irish woman at a bus stop in town, and without being prompted she said she hated the Church because of what the nuns did to her when she was a child. 'I know Jesus loves me' she said, but she had nothing good to say about the Church. But now Ireland not only has legal same-sex marriages, its Prime Minister is openly gay, something that would have been inconceivable just 20 years ago, and Abortion is now legal. By way of contrast, the USA, for so long considered the country of the future, appears to be walking backwards.

And it is in that past that I think the secrets lie, that many Americans hate the country that the USA has become, if they perceive themselves to be Americans descended from the 'White Christians of European Origin' who they claim created the USA, which they see being 'taken away' from them by Asians, by Muslims, by Latinos, and worst of all, by Black people. In spite of their Christian heritage, I wonder if a hard core of them have ever regarded Black people as humans beings, let alone their equals. When a Black man entered the White House as President, the dam broke, there was nothing left to live for, the physical, intellectual and spiritual heart of their country had been torn apart: the slaves had taken over the plantation. The abuse that followed crystallized in that one perpetual question: Is Obama American?

And if you want to bring the Satan fantasy into it, then the USA became a a hell on earth of multiple languages, multiple ethnicities, and multiple identities: and God, Family and Country are the foundation of the USA and now is the time to return the USA to its original owners, though the children of God seem reluctant to admit they are the offspring in a one-parent family.

That the USA was made by so many languages, ethnicities and identities is now dismissed as if it were the problem, with damaging consequences. A similar argument is the meat in the inedible sandwich made by Bannonades and European Fascists who have never accepted any form of 'multi-culturalism' as a natural condition, and seek to 'restore' their fantasy of a White, Christian Europe' which in reality either never existed, or when it did, was convulsed with the periodic wars driven by hate and greed that ended with the catastrophe of 1945 from which we thought we had survived through community rather than conflict -ironic, because it was not explicitly Christian, the kind of community Jesus might approve of.

So when you refer to the spiritual condition in the USA, I fear it reflects division rather than unity, that it leads people to cherry pick their way through their sacred texts to justify whatever they want, and that in policy terms it relies on a negative narrative of loss, failure and crisis to engineer changes that will not make the USA a better place to live in. Or Filghy2 may be right and this is just a blip in American politics and that 'normal service will be resumed' in 2020 if not the mid-terms. Maybe, but a lot of damage has been done, on top of the deep divisions that have always existed in US society, divisions which exist, often in other forms in the UK and across Europe -but divisions that need not be the cause of destruction. We seem to be losing more than we are gaining, and so much of it based on bogus argument manipulated by people more concerned with their wealth and power than the wider interests of society.

When I was in Colledge, we had to do a project on Utopia, we split the class into groups of five, and the five of us had to get together and come up with our version of a modern Utopia. Of course I hated it, if you want the best Utopia, just find the hundred most Utopian People in the World, get funding from large Foundations or the Gov't. VOILA -utopia.
What's better, a perfect World, or a perfect Person?

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...88295618682881

The threat alone without any execution should be impeachable. I don't have the book in front of me but Cass Sunstein's Citizens Guide to Impeachment contained examples of impeachable conduct. Threatening a private company with punitive action because of its criticism of you is more severe than many of the cases of impeachment that took place in colonial America. Since there is not a great deal of precedent for the use of the impeachment clause after the ratification of the Constitution and since the clause has its historic roots both in Colonial America and in England of the King's ministers these examples are instructive.

I'm not expecting Republicans to do anything about it of course.

Subsidies, subsidies, who in a free market economy believes in subsidies?

From This:
President Donald J. Trump
YEARS OF UNFAIR TRADE PRACTICES: China has consistently taken advantage of the American economy with practices that undermine fair and reciprocal trade.

• For many years, China has pursued industrial policies and unfair trade practices—including dumping, discriminatory non-tariff barriers, forced technology transfer, over capacity, and industrial subsidies—that champion Chinese firms and make it impossible for many United States firms to compete on a level playing field.
  
• China has dumped and unfairly subsidized a range of goods for the United States market, undermining America’s domestic industry.
• In 2018 alone, the Trump Administration has found dumping or unfair subsidies on 13 different products, including steel wheels, cold-drawn mechanical tubing, tool chests and cabinets, forged steel fittings, aluminum foil, rubber bands, cast iron soil pipe and fittings, and large diameter welded pipe.
• https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings...rade-policies/

To this:
Trump to offer farmers $12B in trade aid

By ADAM BEHSUDI, CATHERINE BOUDREAU, HELENA BOTTEMILLER EVICH and MEGAN CASSELLA

07/24/2018 10:04 AM
Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue on Tuesday unveiled a three-part, $12 billion plan to ease the sting of retaliatory tariffs on U.S. farmers through a mix of payments, purchases and trade promotion efforts.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...farmers-737108

Eat yer grits, America!

Maybe Trump will give a five thousand dollar tax deduction to anyone who votes for him.
You trying to tell the DealMaker he can't deal?
Obama did the same thing with his Cash4Clunkers, precedent. Obama did it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/07/24/the-trump-michael-cohen-tape-transcript-annotated/?utm_term=.13bfdc489d5d

"COHEN: All the stuff. Because — here, you never know where that company — you never know what he’s —

TRUMP: Maybe he gets hit by a truck.

COHEN: Correct. So, I’m all over that...."

I’m very concerned that Russia will be fighting very hard to have an impact on the upcoming Election. Based on the fact that no President has been tougher on Russia than me, they will be pushing very hard for the Democrats. They definitely don’t want Trump!


8:50 am - 24 Jul 2018
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/...84726217142273
(My emphasis)

Hmmm..guess that proves what a feeble loser JFK was during the Cuban Missile Crisis. As for Reagan, is it true he said
Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall! And can you get me a coke, Please?

Just saw the article on the ouster of Fox News host Kimberly Guilfoyle, sounds good, because basically she was a bitch. Roger Ailes called her "that Puerto Rican whore"...good one, Roger.
Now that the noose is tightening around Trump's neck, I say lets be hospitable and see how many others we can fit in the noose. Live by the Donald, Die by the Donald.

https://image.ibb.co/cCunDo/00.jpg

Have any of the people who interview Rudolph Giuliani told him to his face he is a liar?

The latest is a perfect example of the problem we now have where the lies they tell are not designed to 'cover their own ass' but to condemn someone else.

Here is Giuliani on Michael Cohen on the 26th May 2018 saying that Cohen
"is an honest, honorable lawyer."

But on the 27th of July 2018 saying of Cohen
“He has lied all his life… a person who is found to be an incredible liar, he’s got a tremendous motive to lie now… I don’t think anyone believes that.”
http://theweek.com/speedreads/787243...ncredible-liar

The argument is that none of this will matter because the President's voter base don't care, but can this always be true and will it always be true? Is there not some point at which the lies become so offensive because so brazen that they must cause even the most die-hard supporter to say 'enough'?

Is there really nothing that can be done to put a stop to this, have interviewers now got to challenge, live on air the rubbish people like Giuliani say, or just do the next best thing and not ask for them for their opinion at all? I mean, the man is a lawyer! If you reach a point where the President, the Attorney General, and a host of professional lawyers all tell lies what does this say about a political system where at one time even one small lie exposed would ether result in instant resignation and words of regret or in the case of Bill Clinton lead directly to Impeachment.

Newt Gingrich and Mitch McConnell since the 1990s have undermined the rule of law, and eroded any sense of moral decency in politics by making lying and a distortion of the truth a legitimate political weapon. Lives may not have been lost, but is it not democracy that lies wounded on the battlefield, shot down by the very people who were supposed to protect it?

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Originally Posted by Stavros

The argument is that none of this will matter because the President's voter base don't care, but can this always be true and will it always be true? Is there not some point at which the lies become so offensive because so brazen that they must cause even the most die-hard supporter to say 'enough'?

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We've had a lot of developments over the last few days and it's only made the case for impeachment more obvious though as you indicate the end result depends on the Republican party and the voters. I find the longer it takes to explain bad behavior the more likely it is to elicit a yawn. If it is something like obstruction in which you have a President thwarting his own law enforcement agents it's sadly a longer explanation and seems to the layman to be petty even though nothing more seriously undermines the integrity of our system.

On the other hand, we now have statements from Cohen that Trump knew about Jr's meeting with Veselnitskaya. I am going out on a limb and guessing that there will eventually be some additional corroboration of this fact, whether via email or phone records or additional testimony. The question then becomes whether something like this can be quickly turned into a meme or a campaign ad and is short enough for the average person to digest the duplicity involved in all of his evasions.

Imagine an ad that contrasts Trump's numerous statements saying he doesn't think it was Russia or that he did not collude with verbal testimony that he knew what Russia did. Play Trump's fawning over Putin and Russia against the fact that he knew they helped him win the election. It's sad that it may need to be short enough for a soundbyte.

And we won't get all of his voters, but we may peel off a few, but the midterms are approaching, and winning is the first step for the return of accountability and the rule of law.

We're 100 days from the midterm, they can and will say anything they want with Nunes in charge.
If the Democrats don't get the House, the Russians are using the Mind Control Alien software Trump sent Putin from his Area 51 field trip. If the Democrats don't get the House, this Country deserves to burn in hell.
The story here isn't one guy....it's 50 million gape jawed airheads! 50 MILLION!
I never thought I'd see the day when 50 million Americans all choose to be conned. At the highest level of the government! And two years, it's witchcraft.
Dark Forces at work....

So, how does this work?....
I think I heard that Mueller will release his report around the end of September. Will Trump's 50 million strong wall deflect the truth?
It should be very interesting to see what happens, I hope Rosenstein doesn't decide that airing our own dirty laundry is bad for the Country, I hope half the Country hating the other half is good practice for Hating Putin, one of those rare moments when dogs and cats stand up together. For me, all this stuff is one big mess, but you can bet there are people trained to find method in the madness and turn defeat into victory. With half of Americans not voting, and the other half pretty firm on voting as they always have, it is conceivable the Rooskies found a way to crack the remaining last minute deciders, who vote with their gut. Where is FDR when you need him? More questions than answers...show the clip. And, oh yeah, get me a coke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBKu9OJ8Ltk

I don't know when the Mueller report will come out but there's no way it exonerates Trump since what we already know includes grave abuses of his authority. We know he's committed multiple acts of obstruction of justice, we know that he knew about the Russian interference and has spent years now lying about it, vacillating between an acknowledgement of Russia's role and then pivoting to his ludicrous hypothetical about a 400 pound hacker.

We will get more information but I think one major problem here is that the standard we should hold politicians to is too vague. His party has for decades decried liberal moral relativism yet their new alibi is that he's not doing anything anyone else hasn't done. This is neither true nor relevant. You cannot get assistance from a foreign adversary to win an election, find out about it, refuse to tell intelligence agencies about that fact and later attack their conclusions when you know they're correct. There is no principle the Republicans would not sell out in their pursuit of power.

Two years of Trump and still revelations pop up, there are probably entire chapters of illegal adventures in Mueller's Report we have no clue about yet. How big will the report be, two pages? Two Rental Trucks?
The success of the US in the real world is quite astounding, and in one sense I agree with the Republicans we shouldn't just give it away. I agree with the Republicans on a lot of stuff, about 40 percent worth. If I moved from Northern Virginia to West Virginia I would probably agree with Republicans about 60% of the time. BTW, I agree with strangers on the street about 50% of the time.

It's a shame but a reality that in a real world Democrats can't spend the money and energy in rural areas to flip Rush Limbaugh intoxicated voters, because most of them should be Democrat but don't know it. Americans have a higher approval rating of Adolph Hitler than their own Congress, the Congress they elected. And now they go ahead and elect a Queens Sleazeball who ran as a joke. If you take a stroll down a crowed city street your brain sees the pretty girl, but reality sees the other 99 ugly chicks. While most every other country in the World would never admit it, they'd be happy to trade their problems for a cash-induced euphoria, where it's always the other guy's fault. I think the Republican's deal with the Devil is about to reach it's time limit, Trump might want to spend the next two years denying Mueller's "allegations" but I don't really think the rest of the Republican Party wants two years of BAD TRUMP on TV. Lots of Trump Loyalist would like to stick with Trump til Death dost them part, I hope he takes the whole Party down with him. Of Course then SATAN would change parties and become a Democrat. All these Republicans I hate make up half the Country, and half my relatives. I hope Mueller knocks all my relative's socks off. I hope he knocks my socks off too. I'm getting sick of this.

To make a very very long story short, the Donald Trump Show still has high ratings, but I think there are signs the Sponsors are getting jittery about having their brand linked to the Donald Trump Experience.
The Portrait of Dorian Grey hidden in the attic is the National Debt, and as ugly and vile Trump is, the National Debt is worse, in my opinion.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Even some of the Fox News personalities are embarrassed by some of the White House personalities, we've sailed way past REPUBLICAN now. Cult of Personality.

https://preview.ibb.co/fby7Qp/0.jpg

Stroke Vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7Uy0Uznw4E

Donald Trump’s outbursts against the special counsel investigation into Russian interference in the US election have become a near-daily occurrence. But on Friday the president made public comments that some observers and legal experts said were unprecedented – and could impact the objectivity of jurors.
Addressing reporters on the south lawn at the White House, Trump said his former campaign chairman Paul Manafort was “a very good person”. At the same time, 23 miles away in Alexandria, Virginia, a jury was deliberating Manafort’s fate.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...rs-sequestered

Is this legal? Could it be regarded as 'contempt of court'? But can the President be fined for interfering in a jury decision if it can be show that jurors were influenced by his intervention?
You can set aside the shock that a President would intervene in a trial, because there are no rules this President honours.

And anyway, however many trials Manafort gets through, is it not all but inevitable that he will receive a Presidential pardon? It will be a simple message from the White House -the rule of law does not apply to this President or his friends, anyone prosecuted and found guilty will be pardoned, so don't bother. We are above the law.

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Originally Posted by Stavros

….. however many trials Manafort gets through, is it not all but inevitable that he will receive a Presidential pardon? It will be a simple message from the White House -the rule of law does not apply to this President or his friends, anyone prosecuted and found guilty will be pardoned, so don't bother. We are above the law.

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When it comes to Trump's future, it's not what I know that scares me, it's what I don't know. I'm reading tea leaves, I'm trying to read the other Politicians, Real Politicians. Despite everything Rudy says, all the main players, Rosenstein, Sessions and Mueller are lifelong Republicans. I see that as a good thing. If Trump pardons Manafort for crimes against the Nation, Mueller can and will try him in State Court where Trump's Pardon Powers don't exist , and you can bet the Judge will give him the maximum sentence. My big question is if Manafort knows this, why doesn't he just flip? Does he like the baloney sandwiches he gets in jail? They say FDR was still trying to walk the last week of his life, I'm sure Trump Manafort Cohen Stone etc will still be wheeling and dealing in jail, the hustle never ends.

Come on, you Old School Republicans, open your eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEh-jF8CHEQ

[QUOTE=buttslinger;1849051]
Despite everything Rudy says, all the main players, Rosenstein, Sessions and Mueller are lifelong Republicans. I see that as a good thing.
--But your President is not a Republican and in the first tv debate for the part's nomination he made it clear he didn't care what the party did or said, and if they didn't nominate him he would run against them. After all the Republicans are part of the problem, isn't that what his entire campaign was about? How the party establishment endorsed someone so hostile to them remains one of the 'what if's' in recent history, to which the only explanation is that they needed him to reverse everything Obama implemented, and reward themselves and their friends with tax cuts.
--Why does Giuliani appear on tv every Sunday, or rather, why do the tv stations bother when he just talks rubbish? If he ever had anyone's respect, he has lost it by now. 'The truth is not truth'. Not sure even Wittgenstein could swallow that.

If Trump pardons Manafort for crimes against the Nation, Mueller can and will try him in State Court where Trump's Pardon Powers don't exist , and you can bet the Judge will give him the maximum sentence. My big question is if Manafort knows this, why doesn't he just flip?
--The swamp life that oozed out of the darker recesses of Manhattan and now swarms over this administration is made up of men who believe the simple rule: if you want something in life, go out and take it. They consider themselves entitled to take as much as they can, legally or not, and don't care what you think about it. They can't live on $300,000 a year, they need $30 million. Even the ones who already had millions, billions expect the tax payer to fund their lavish demands, from transport to furniture. But the most extraordinary thing is that it doesn't seem to matter that this President has surrounded himself with liars, crooks and incompetent managers, or that he himself is corrupt and in some way nobbled by the Russians, his supporters just don't care, just as they think the press is made up of liars and they wouldn't care if the New York Times and the Washington Post were shut down and their staff thrown in prison. It is the rule of law, as well as basics like etiquette in public life that have been eroded, with no end in sight of what may be the deliberate sabotage of the US political system by a foul-mouthed moron who takes the view: if you don't worship and adore me I will destroy everything I can.

He resents you, he is full of spite and anger, and will lash out, he will burn it down rather than preserve a system that lasted for 242 years. And he will justify his rage and resentment to the bitter end.

I had yet one more fantastic post on Trump, but it disappeared into thin air again when I pushed Go Advanced
Fuck it.

Even without Mueller, Trump would be a disgraced President in the end, probably when he crashed the World Economy like Bush.

If Love makes the World go round, Hate makes it go even faster, I think the point of the post I lost was the Trump Racists have always been the little secret of the Republican Party, if you want to kill the snake you have to cut off it's head, and if Limbaugh and Hannity want to wrap their everloving arms around Trump, all the better, nothing ruins a reputation like Colluding with the KGB. In the Fox World, you're either a Patriot or a pinhead.

Stavros, I think we may have to face the fact that people are either sick of Trump, or they're sick of you and/or me.
I think the world has Trump Fatigue, tonight my fears are centering around my trip to the dentist tomorrow, Manafort is sitting in a jail cell twenty minutes away from me, I wonder what he's thinking about? How long has it been since these guys had a good blow job?

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Originally Posted by buttslinger

I had yet one more fantastic post on Trump, but it disappeared into thin air again when I pushed Go Advanced

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I've had that happen a few times myself. So what did we miss?

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Originally Posted by broncofan

I've had that happen a few times myself. So what did we miss?

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I don't get it, I thought it was a glitch, but how many times have I thought it's the computer's fault when it's actually mine?
I'm signed in, I write some stuff, hit Go Advanced to see what I wrote, and I get the page saying I'm not signed in. Maybe it's onset dementia.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by buttslinger

I don't get it, I thought it was a glitch, but how many times have I thought it's the computer's fault when it's actually mine?
I'm signed in, I write some stuff, hit Go Advanced to see what I wrote, and I get the page saying I'm not signed in. Maybe it's onset dementia.

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I've decided not to go advanced. If they have a go beginner button I'll hit it.

But we had some good news today. I didn't follow the trial but Manafort was found guilty on five charges of tax fraud, two counts bank fraud, and one count hiding a foreign bank account. He faces up to 240 years in prison.

What that means is that even though there were 10 charges for which there was a hung jury, we were able to find 12 people who could conclude the obvious without unnecessary partisanship. It's a ray of hope.

Michael Cohen is pleading guilty so we'll see what he has to say about the rest of them.

In a stunning admission Michael Cohen, the lawyer, admitted to a New York court that he had broken campaign finance laws and claimed he did so "in coordination with and at the direction of a federal candidate". His lawyer later confirmed he was referring to Mr Trump.

Cohen said he acted "at the request of the candidate" and added: "I participated in the conduct for the purposes of influencing the election."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...fraud-charges/

In most cases this would lead to a resignation, but we may be living in an era when the law is broken but nothing is done about it, even when the participants admit to it. You want to win this election or not? But if the rule of law no longer applies, it has no meaning.
We have seen in the UK how the former Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson went from the Foreign Office to the Telegraph as a journalist within a week, violating the Ministerial Code that says Ministers must not enter the private sector for three months, just as we now know the Leave campaigns in the EU Referendum broke election law by spending beyond the legal limit, with money that we may yet discover came from the Russian government. Either way, the EU referendum is tainted, but nobody has the courage to stand up and say that as it was crooked, so it should be stopped.

It is official and a fact: the President is a crook, when will he resign?

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Originally Posted by buttslinger

I don't get it, I thought it was a glitch, but how many times have I thought it's the computer's fault when it's actually mine?
I'm signed in, I write some stuff, hit Go Advanced to see what I wrote, and I get the page saying I'm not signed in. Maybe it's onset dementia.

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This has happened to me several times. I learned to copy my post, before I hit the Go Advanced button. . Sometimes in relogging in a little dialogue window will pop up and ask if I want to use the post, that disappeared.

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Originally Posted by broncofan

….What that means is that even though there were 10 charges for which there was a hung jury, we were able to find 12 people who could conclude the obvious without unnecessary partisanship. It's a ray of hope....

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Probably one guy hung up the 10 charges, next stop DC, not much sympathy for Mr Manafort there, ...it sure would be nice if Mr Mueller had a witness who was in the room when Nastya Slutskovitch and her Kremlin Kamarades pitched Collusion to Beredict Donald Jr. He would be the centerpiece of an amazing story that maybe most people would have a hard time believing without proof. No cavities today.

Thanks Bronco, you've been a good soldier, this isn't partisan bickering, it's a threat to the USA disguised as partisan bickering. Trump was right when he said the United States does bad stuff too, but I think everyone in the World sleeps a bit better when the overpayed oversexed racist capitalists are the bad guys. Putin needs a leash.
https://preview.ibb.co/jgKPfz/00.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/iG0Qne/01.jpg

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Originally Posted by Stavros

[I]It is official and a fact: the President is a crook, when will he resign?

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I think if were as easy as quitting, saluting, and flying off to MaraLago, Trump would be cool with that. Putin is the Moriarty here, Trump is a punk rich kid who got in way over his head.

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Originally Posted by yodajazz

This has happened to me several times. I learned to copy my post, before I hit the Go Advanced button. . Sometimes in relogging in a little dialogue window will pop up and ask if I want to use the post, that disappeared.

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Yeah, it just did it again, I got sent to a page that said I wasn't signed in, and when I hit the backup arrow I was shown out to cyberspace. It only does it occasionally, but most of my posts aren't based on facts, they're idea flows, and …..blah blah blah. Thanks Yoda.

OK, here's the way I see it, but...
As I understand it, after the fall of the Soviet Union, all these utilities and stuff that the Govt had previously dealt with were dealt out to a bunch of thugs, and Putin was their boss. Putin is supposedly one of the richest men in the World, but nobody knows how much because it's all hidden. But it's billions.
Trump was deeply in debt, and none of the legit banks would lend him money. So he starts laundering these Russian gangster's billions in real estate deals. So after a decade or so of getting richer off Donald Trump, now Putin can blackmail Trump for POWER, for all I know Trump handed over a disc with all the West's secrets on it in Helsinki.

Where my story falls apart is that if Trump knew all this was about to become public record.....is he so twisted he thinks he can get away with it" Puppet? no puppet. you're the puppet!


Mueller came off the bench for this one, he was retired to private business, but he got the band back together and looked into Putin in the US. Putin in Europe. They start wars for that shit. We're going to see the most airtight case you can get, but who knows, we're breaking new ground here, I dunno, if Mueller had proof Trump was running with those 15 Russians he indicted, do you interrupt an election for that? a midterm election? Do you interrupt an election if the Russians are hardwired into it?


I remember Lindsey Graham being happy the day Mueller was brought on, but he lamented that the people will never here any more dirt about Trump because it will all get dished behind doors in Mueller's office. The White House, The Senate, the House of Representatives, the Supreme Court, a jacked up Economy......and Trump still fucked it up. sad

I have woken this morning to comments from the parties involved that, as expected, attempt to dismiss the huge importance of the results of yesterday's court appearances.

Again, as expected, the most insulting remark comes from Rudolph Giuliani, who once took on the Mafia in New York with some success, but now seems mentally incapable of distinguishing the violation of the law from the person breaking it:

"There is no allegation of any wrongdoing against the president in the government's charges against Michael Cohen..."
In other words, Michael Cohen, one of the most trusted men in 'the Organization' who said he would 'take a bullet' for The Man, has been a fraud and a liar all that time and nobody knew it-? When did Giuliani first discover John Gotti was a 'Mafia Don'? Did he ever believe Gotti might just be a 'businessman' as he said he was?

The judgement of the President, meanwhile, continues to cause concern with people who can read and write, and who, when presented with the facts in the case of a man who participated in one of the greatest robberies of all time -assisting the President of the Ukraine and his chums in the looting of two-thirds of the country's wealth-
He said: "Paul Manafort is a good man. It doesn't involve me, but I still feel - you know, it's a very sad thing that happened".

If you judge a man by the millions in his bank account(s) then I guess Paul Manafort is a good man, but then I guess you could say the same of John Gotti, were it not for the means by which he acquired his wealth.
All the quotes above from the Conservative Telegraph online-
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...fraud-charges/

The real issue here is the claim that the President, as President cannot be indicted for a crime. The Constitution does not say it cannot happen, but apparently the Justice Department has some kind of 'rule' or 'principle' that a President can only be prosecuted for a crime after he leaves office. I am not sure about that. This is what a New York Times article argues:

1) Although there is no explicit prohibition in the Constitution against indicting a president, the Justice Department has long taken the position that sitting presidents are not subject to criminal prosecution.

2) A middle ground and second option urged by some legal experts is to allow prosecutors to obtain an indictment but defer further proceedings until the president leaves office.

3) The third option is impeachment, and prosecutors may present the evidence they have gathered to the House for its consideration.

However, a law professor, Eric M. Freedman has argued that a President can be indicted-
that granting sitting presidents immunity from prosecution was “inconsistent with the history, structure and underlying philosophy of our government, at odds with precedent and unjustified by practical considerations.”

But as the article points out and I think this is crucial, when the law was broken, it was broken not by a President, but a Presidential candidate. The question is thus not, can a sitting President be indicted, but can a President be indicted for a crime he committed before becoming President? They point to the case of Presidential nominee John Edwards, who was taken to court over campaign finance violations but not convicted, so there is a precedent with regard to candidates.

The NYT article is here-
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/21/u...-indicted.html

Maybe as I am not an American there is something I don't understand here. For example, if a group of Senators visits the White House for a meeting with the President, and in full view of the cameras the President pulls out a gun and shoots a dissenting Senator dead, nothing can happen until the President resigns, is impeached, or loses an election -is that right? Indeed, name any crime and the President carries on as if it were not important -and this is a President who will never admit he is wrong about anything -because it is up to Congress to impeach?

The President makes money from the office because there is nothing in the Constitution that says he can't, so if the Constitution doesn't say you can't do it, go ahead, America, indict the man, send him to trial.

Lastly, there was one shocking moment in yesterday's proceedings against Cohen:

Asked by Judge William Pauley whether he was fit to enter a plea, and whether he had consumed any drugs or alcohol in the previous 24 hours, Cohen replied: "Yes. Last night at dinner I had a glass of Glenlivet, 12 years old, on the rocks."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...fraud-charges/

It may be only 12 years old, but the man who puts ice in his Single Malt is a man without culture, violating a sacred ritual. Lock him up!

US President Donald Trump said he would consider pardoning his former campaign chairman Paul Manafort, who was convicted on Tuesday of bank and tax fraud, according to a Fox News reporter who interviewed Trump.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...paul-manafort/

Because it is all about HIM, and loyalty to HIM. The rule of law? Bank Fraud? Is it the case that none of these things will be of any legal relevance because the President can just sweep them all away with the wave of a hand? Will he wait for the trials of Paul Manafort to end or do it now, rendering every proceeding completely worthless? It seems Manafort only needs to sit in court and say nothing because the evidence and the verdict will be irrelevant. He could be guilty on every count and be sentenced to 100 years (like they do in the US), knowing his buddy will wave his imperial hands and he won't go to gaol.

But hey, it won't matter, the Republicans don't care. They have anointed their God and King, he can do anything he wants and they will protect him. When Boris Johnson was told business leaders in the UK are concerned at the UK crashing out of the EU he responded, 'Fuck business!'. Perhaps Mitch McConnell should do the right thing and respond to the latest news, 'Fuck America!'.

Satan and his lawyers were seen outside the offices of Robert Mueller today, rumors are he was looking for a full immunity deal l if he testifies against Trump. He was spotted later at Duke Zieberts having a New York Strip with Allen Weisselberg. Meanwhile, Trump was said to be seething about John McCain stealing his thunder once again, AWKWARD. Questions loom about what Trump will do if cornered, even Satan shrugged when asked. Are Trump and Pecker still buds? I guess we'll have to check out the next issue of the National Enquirer for the truth.
If Mueller doesn't state his case before the elections, and we spend all of 2019 dragging a kicking and screaming Trump to Club Fed, that would be about a trillion dollars worth of free political ads for the Democrats. Yeah, let's do that. Mike Pence can be our 5 minute President.

I am still trying to get my head around a story about a President, a Porn Star, a Playboy Model, the National Enquirer and a man called Pecker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stavros

I am still trying to get my head around a story about a President, a Porn Star, a Playboy Model, the National Enquirer and a man called Pecker.

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Imagine how the Clintons feel.

If true, this is devastating, and gives a new depth to the Mueller enquiry.

From Newsweek:
Donald Trump Is a 'Russian Asset' Owned by the Mafia, Author Claims in New Book

Omarosa vs. Trump may be the political pro wrestling match of the week, but a more serious confrontation could be prompted by a book that came out Tuesday, alleging that President Donald Trump may be a Russian asset compromised by billions of laundered dollars over decades of shady real estate deals.
In House of Trump, House of Putin: The Untold Story of Donald Trump and the Russian Mafia, veteran journalist and author Craig Unger names 59 Russians as business associates of Trump (who has claimed he has none) and follows the purported financial links between them and the Trump Organization going back decades.
The Trump White House did not immediately respond to Newsweek's requests for comment. In February 2017, Trump issued a blanket denial to questions about Russian money and his business. "I have no dealings with Russia. I have no deals that could happen in Russia, because we’ve stayed away," he said. "And I have no loans with Russia. I have no loans with Russia at all."
Newsweek spoke with Unger about ties he claims exist between the Russian mafia, President Vladimir Putin and the Trump Organization, as well as what a guilty verdict for former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort could mean for the future of special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation.

What is money laundering, and what role do you believe the Trump Organization played in it?
Money laundering is taking money from illicit sources and essentially cleaning it and putting it into a Western bank. We are talking about huge sums, a trillion dollars in flight capital from Russia since Putin became president. With the demise of the Soviet Union, the floodgates opened for the Russian mafia. All of Russia's natural resources were up for grabs. If you needed to launder huge sums of money, the best ways are casinos and real estate—both of which Trump was in. Casinos have a $10,000 [reporting threshold under the Bank Secrecy Act]. The Trump Taj Mahal violated that more than a hundred times. But you can’t launder a trillion dollars that way. You really need something like real estate.
You allege that the Trump Organization laundered billions of dollars. How much of the money would it have gotten to keep?
It did enrich him. He gets an 18 to 25 percent franchising fee for these [real estate] projects. Just as McDonald’s franchises burgers, Trump was franchising luxury condos in roughly 40 Trump Towers all over the world. But the larger point is the Russian mafia bailed him out. They own him.
You name numerous alleged mafia links to Trump. Isn’t that just how business is done in New York commercial development?
It has been, absolutely. I think the Russian mafia’s role has been dismissed and not analyzed because people think that in real estate you have to pay off construction people. That has been true historically. But early in Trump's career, the Italian mafia began partnering with the Russian mafia, and the Russian mafia is very, very different, and that ups the ante. The major reason for that is that Russian mafia is a state actor.

There are two things that you say intersect here: the mafia and the Russian government. Explain.
I interviewed [former] General Oleg Kalugin, who was head of counterintelligence for the KGB, and when I asked him about the Russian mafia, he said, "Oh, that’s another branch of the KGB."
Who is Semion Mogilevich?
He is the brains behind the Russian mafia. He is worth $10 billion. He is the king of money launderers, and he is the financial genius behind many of their scams. Russia has no Wall Street, no Goldman Sachs. If you have financial acumen, you work for the Russian mafia. If he had been born here, he might be head of Goldman Sachs. The Russian mafia fetishizes brutality. Mogilevich helped elevate it from this thuggish world of extortion to sophisticated financial scams. He lives in Moscow. He has been on the FBI Ten Most Wanted list, and one of the people on the Budapest task force investigating him was Lisa Page, who was part of Mueller’s investigation. [Page resigned from the FBI in May.]
You call this the greatest intelligence operation of our time. What do you mean by that?
It started out as a simple money-laundering operation at Trump Tower in 1984, when a Russian mobster came to Trump Tower with $6 million in cash and bought five condos. This is the template for what begins to unfold. At least 1,300 of Trump condos in the United States have been sold similarly. All cash purchases through anonymous sources. Those numbers reflect only domestic property. After the demise of the Soviet Union, the KGB decided to create multibillion-dollar companies to survive. The use of the term mafia state is not just a metaphor. It really explains how Russia works. The mafia essentially reports to Putin.
Do you think Trump knew he was being targeted, or did he just think the Russians were being nice and helpful?
I have no idea what’s going on in his mind. But it's hard to believe someone can do 1,300 transactions and not know what is going on.
Both Trump sons have talked about how much money was coming into their business from Russia in the 2000s. Doesn’t that suggest that it was not a secret operation and that the U.S. government was fully aware of it?
Regulations in real estate are so lax that the Trump Organization and Trump have repeatedly said they don't have to do due diligence. And, legally, that is largely true. Sometimes, what is most scandalous is what's legal.
How is it that the U.S. authorities never noticed the relationship you allege between Trump and the Russian mobsters?
I think the whole story of the FBI’s role in this is another book, but there are important unanswered questions there. Before 9/11, the FBI was clearly on the trail of the Russian mafia, and they opened a task force in Budapest that was specifically going after Mogilevich. They chased Mogilevich back to Moscow, where there is no extradition treaty. Soon after that, 9/11 happened. The priorities of the FBI shifted dramatically.
How much so-called kompromat do you believe the Russians have on Trump, how far back does it go, and what is the nature of it?
I am approaching things quite differently than looking for the pee tape. In a lot of ways, the kompromat is hiding in plain sight. I found 59 links between Trump and Russia. He said zero. I say 59. These cannot possibly be random or coincidental contacts. It evolves into something more than money laundering over time.
What is Manafort’s alleged role? What does he know about Trump?
Manafort is an incredibly crucial link to Putin’s goals. He connected Trump directly to Putin's strategic objectives. One question people are not asking: Where is the Russian mafia money coming from? In my book, I identify two pipelines. One is the Ukraine energy trade, in which Mogilevich has a gas intermediary. They get gas at low prices and resell it at market prices, and through this, they were skimming $750 million a year off the Ukraine energy trade. They were getting all that money and wanted the political wherewithal to support it. Manafort was hired to assist Putin's candidate in Ukraine. He was paid in money that he had to launder. And some of that went through a shell company, and I tie that directly to Mogilevich.
How can Manafort hurt Trump?
If he’s convicted, he can still flip. Manafort has known Trump for 30 years. He knows how the whole thing works.
Did any Russian mobsters either follow or threaten you in the course of your research?
I have not had threats. But I dedicate this book to Paul Klebnikov and other Russian journalists who have been murdered. Dozens and dozens of people have been murdered. It takes real courage for the Russian journalists to pursue this.
Which of your findings do you think Americans would find most shocking?
There is a Russian asset in the White House. He is an asset. I believe he is an agent, but it's hard to prove he is knowledgeable. When you look at the 59 Russians, some live in Trump Tower. The Russian mafia is a state actor, and it has direct ties to Russian intelligence, and they have been located in the home of the president of the United States!
This article has been updated to reflect the fact that Lisa Page resigned from the FBI in May.

https://www.newsweek.com/manafort-tr...ok-fbi-1076582

The only thing that can top that lot is if tRumpf gets assassinated.
The conspiracy theorists will be spinning like tops for years!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stavros

If true, this is devastating, and gives a new depth to the Mueller enquiry.

From Newsweek:
Donald Trump Is a 'Russian Asset' Owned by the Mafia, Author Claims in New Book

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jericho

The only thing that can top that lot is if tRumpf gets assassinated.
The conspiracy theorists will be spinning like tops for years!

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I don't know, but I think Mueller will refrain from issuing even an interim report before the mid-terms so that he cannot be accused of trying to influence the vote. It would appear that the FBI and the Obama Presidency became aware of Russian activity in the 2016 election but did not make it public a) because they were still gathering evidence, and b) because they did not want to be accused of influencing the vote.

The problem now is that His Imperial Majesty doesn't know if he should move before the mid-terms to shut the enquiry down and risk losing votes in the mid-terms, or wait until after the vote by which time it might be too late. Either way he either has to shut it down if he can, or resort to his tried and tested model of denial, denial, denial, attacking everyone as a liar and a traitor, on the basis that his supporters will approve and believe everything he says. This is a man who simply doesn't care about the institutions of government or the law, and will do whatever he can to remain in office, because he is not a loser. He is convinced the Republicans will retain control of the Senate so he is daring the Democrats to impeach calculating that it won't matter because the Senate will keep him in office.

You know there is a conspiracy theory that JFK was killed by the Mob, but this guy does't rat. He even made the disingenuous remark that he had never knowingly dealt with the mob while conceding the Mob ran the construction industry in Atlantic City-

Trump has consistently denied his dealings with any suspected mobsters ever crossed the line. But he has admitted that almost everyone involved in building casinos in Atlantic City in the 1980s used mob-linked companies.

“You had contractors that were supposedly mob-oriented all over Atlantic City,” he said once. “Every single casino company used the same companies.”
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...64357c047ee8ce

So, 'No, I never used Mafia companies, and yes, the building contracs were given to Mafia owned and controlled companies', or words to that effect.
Tell Michael, it was strictly business...