What Is The Next Gun You Plan On Buying?

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Originally Posted by needsum

this is a tough debate. I have been a "gun guy" since I was a kid. my dad had them, we'd go shooting at the gun range as a family. I learned how to care for, and respect, firearms. To me it has nothing to do with the potential to deal death. Thats a hightened fanatical view of gun-ownership. Seriously, break it down: you own kitchen knives? Have any big carving knives? whats to stop you from grabbing one and going ape-shit on some poor unsuspecting slobs? own a baseball bat? Have access to a hardware store where they sell iron pipes? how about an automobile? everytime any one of us gets be hind the wheel, we are instantly at the helm of one of the most powerful and most readily available weapons in existence. but nobody sees that inherant view of cars--they are just meant to get us from point a to b. guns were designed to kill, that much is undisputable fact. however, this day and age, guns are for sport, recreation, and defense. it is highly unlikely that 99% will ever need to worry about defense, but it doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to have one just in case. I'm betting you never fired a gun, and never experienced the thrill of it. its fun! and it doesn't have to be relegated to "death and destruction" alone.

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Flaws to argument.... automatic assault weapons exist for one purpose unlike cars or kitchen knives. yes I've fired guns - with the SAS.

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Originally Posted by needsum

this is a tough debate. I have been a "gun guy" since I was a kid. my dad had them, we'd go shooting at the gun range as a family. I learned how to care for, and respect, firearms. To me it has nothing to do with the potential to deal death. Thats a hightened fanatical view of gun-ownership. Seriously, break it down: you own kitchen knives? Have any big carving knives? whats to stop you from grabbing one and going ape-shit on some poor unsuspecting slobs? own a baseball bat? Have access to a hardware store where they sell iron pipes? how about an automobile? everytime any one of us gets be hind the wheel, we are instantly at the helm of one of the most powerful and most readily available weapons in existence. but nobody sees that inherant view of cars--they are just meant to get us from point a to b. guns were designed to kill, that much is undisputable fact. however, this day and age, guns are for sport, recreation, and defense. it is highly unlikely that 99% will ever need to worry about defense, but it doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to have one just in case. I'm betting you never fired a gun, and never experienced the thrill of it. its fun! and it doesn't have to be relegated to "death and destruction" alone.

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I understand completly where you are coming from Needsum. I live in the UK and we have very tight gun laws, I'm licensed and own a 12 guage shotgun which I have had for some 25yrs now and love it for sport whether it be bird shooting or clay pigeon.

I do love guns though and as a tourist love to go and try out lots of hardware wherever possible, have probably fired 20 or more different types of guns which is a pretty good selection for a civillian Brit.

I have never once wanted to take my gun out and use it for anything other than the purpose to which I stated above but the sad fact of the matter is that the more weapons there are around the easier it is for them to fall in the wrong hands. Sure a car is a lethal weapon and so is a kitchen knife but statistics will tell you that very few people will use their car to kill / maime someone intentionally. On the other hand there are millions of knives in the world and in the UK we have a knife crime issue. But as always it is not with the average Joe, sensible man in the street it is the gangs and extremists. If guns were freely available in the UK then I suspect we would be subject to rising gun crimes as is prevalent in the USA.

Fact of the matter is that if the guns are not available then the chances of gun crime are greatly reduced so I as a person who enjoys guns support the UK stance on this.

That said I love to play with guns and so long as you guys still welcome us Brits then I'm happy to come to the States and play around then fly home and leave you guys with the constant worry that the next time someone raises their voice they don't pull a 357 from out of their pocket.

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Originally Posted by Edwoodwoodwood

This is bloody hilarious and shows what happens with an AK47 in the wrong hands albeit the intelligence level between the two parties is probably equal.


‪Ape With AK-47‬‏ - YouTube

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lmao

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Originally Posted by Prospero

Flaws to argument.... automatic assault weapons exist for one purpose unlike cars or kitchen knives. yes I've fired guns - with the SAS.

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No shit "automatic" weapons aren't that easy to get a hold of, even in Texas. The right FFL is expensive as shit, no one is going to take the time to go through all the federal rings to drop 10-20 grand on a automatic rifle and then sell it a drug dealer. Assault rifles that are truly assault rifles in the hands of criminals and dealers get there from corrupt and retarded ATF policies and stolen weapons from the US military and police meant for destruction. They may be made in America but they don't come from here, they're shipped right up the border with Mexico along with the drugs. 1 trained person with a semi-automatic rifle can shoot way more accurately than a fire team's worth of dumb asses from the ghetto.

thanks for those photos. I'm sure that is the type of thing any and all of us "gun nuts" on this board are striving to achieve. Shall I post photos of drunk driving accidents now so we can compare more bloody, violent crimes?

Now on to more important stuff, here are most of mine. Missing from the photos, I also have a Mauser M-98 and a mossberg .22 single shot rifle that was my dads when he was a kid. WOuld have a couple Colt AR-15's and a M1-carbine as well, but thanks to good ol Jim Florio they are illegal in NJ and now reside with my uncle in Texas.

Beretta 96F, Taurus 96F, Colt Model 1911, M1 garand, .223 SKS replica, .22 Ruger P22, .45 Ruger P90

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Originally Posted by Edwoodwoodwood

I understand completly where you are coming from Needsum. I live in the UK and we have very tight gun laws, I'm licensed and own a 12 guage shotgun which I have had for some 25yrs now and love it for sport whether it be bird shooting or clay pigeon.

I do love guns though and as a tourist love to go and try out lots of hardware wherever possible, have probably fired 20 or more different types of guns which is a pretty good selection for a civillian Brit.

I have never once wanted to take my gun out and use it for anything other than the purpose to which I stated above but the sad fact of the matter is that the more weapons there are around the easier it is for them to fall in the wrong hands. Sure a car is a lethal weapon and so is a kitchen knife but statistics will tell you that very few people will use their car to kill / maime someone intentionally. On the other hand there are millions of knives in the world and in the UK we have a knife crime issue. But as always it is not with the average Joe, sensible man in the street it is the gangs and extremists. If guns were freely available in the UK then I suspect we would be subject to rising gun crimes as is prevalent in the USA.

Fact of the matter is that if the guns are not available then the chances of gun crime are greatly reduced so I as a person who enjoys guns support the UK stance on this.

That said I love to play with guns and so long as you guys still welcome us Brits then I'm happy to come to the States and play around then fly home and leave you guys with the constant worry that the next time someone raises their voice they don't pull a 357 from out of their pocket.

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thanks for the reply, and I'm glad to see your position on this. however, one thing that many people don't realize from out of the country is that the vast majority of the gun crime committed here in the US is done with illegal firearms. in many if not most states, there is a rigorous application process just to get your Firearms ID card. Here in NJ, it means going to the local PD, getting fingerprinted, filling out a background sheck with the State Police, and waiting several months for someone to decide if you will be accepted. Some states are very liberal with purchase policies, but most require some form of waiting period and background check. But as for the gun violence, since the rigors of the application make it easy for law enforcement to trace the gun back to its owner via ballistics, anyone looking to use a weapon for crime will be going to some back alley, and buying a stolen or illegally imported weapon from some criminal. The every day gun-owner who goea about the process legally (and thats the VAST majority of us) has no intention to use for harm, unless in self defense.

if you take the guns away from the regular people, the criminals will STILL get guns. its a simple fact, because they are not obtaining them the way the regular people are. who is to stop them?

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Originally Posted by Hebrew Hammer

No shit "automatic" weapons aren't that easy to get a hold of, even in Texas. The right FFL is expensive as shit, no one is going to take the time to go through all the federal rings to drop 10-20 grand on a automatic rifle and then sell it a drug dealer. Assault rifles that are truly assault rifles in the hands of criminals and dealers get there from corrupt and retarded ATF policies and stolen weapons from the US military and police meant for destruction. They may be made in America but they don't come from here, they're shipped right up the border with Mexico along with the drugs. 1 trained person with a semi-automatic rifle can shoot way more accurately than a fire team's worth of dumb asses from the ghetto.

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BINGO. there are no flaws to the argument I made Prospero, mostly because I am not even talking about automatic assault weapons. As the hammer mentioned, you cannot even legally purchase an automatic assault weapon in 48 of the 50 states. They were outlawed here in NJ over 20 years ago. Sure, I''d LOVE to have a Tompson sub-machine gun for the collectability and nostalgia of it, but it ain't ever gonna happen. those days are long gone. Not to sound too repetitive, but those kind of guns are here illegally, acquired illegally, and used by criminalls for illegal activity. Why punish me and people like me because some assholes break the law? those people will do what they do no matter what happens to me and my kind.

Why do they sell sports cars that can drive to well in excess of 100 MPH when speed limits are at max 75 MPH, but mostly 55 MPH? because people want them, and the assumption is that they will be responsible when they operate them. You get more speeders and accidents/deaths because of high speed collisions than you do firearm deaths from people who are legal, responsible gun owners. SO should we then ban Corvettes, Ferrarri's etc from all roadways? Would seem to be fitting if your argument was truly sound.

the basic fact here is that it all comes down to personal responsibility, and you are telling me that I am not responsible enough to safely own and operate a firearm if I do indeed choose to do so. I use the car and kitchen knife example because those are also examples of personal responsibility. maybe the knife is a bit far fetched, but ask John Wayne Bobbit that....

[QUOTE=needsum;982178]thanks for those photos. I'm sure that is the type of thing any and all of us "gun nuts" on this board are striving to achieve. Shall I post photos of drunk driving accidents now so we can compare more bloody, violent crimes? "'



You don't get it do you. Cars are designed to move people around. Guns are designed to kill. The guy who killed all those people in Ohio yesterday would not have found it so easy if he didn't have such easy access to weapons. We control weapons in the Uk and just don't have the death toll you guys notch up. No one is against guns for hunting and sporting purposes but ... well.....

Needsum... I don't doubt that you are a goo guy and I am sure most of the nice guys who post here are responsible and won't go on shooting sprees. But the easy avaiabiilty of them makes it much easier. of course it can happen where guns are more tightly controlled. But.....

[quote=Prospero;982196]

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Originally Posted by needsum

thanks for those photos. I'm sure that is the type of thing any and all of us "gun nuts" on this board are striving to achieve. Shall I post photos of drunk driving accidents now so we can compare more bloody, violent crimes? "'



You don't get it do you. Cars are designed to move people around. Guns are designed to kill. The guy who killed all those people in Ohio yesterday would not have found it so easy if he didn't have such easy access to weapons. We control weapons in the Uk and just don't have the death toll you guys notch up. No one is against guns for hunting and sporting purposes but ... well.....

Needsum... I don't doubt that you are a goo guy and I am sure most of the nice guys who post here are responsible and won't go on shooting sprees. But the easy avaiabiilty of them makes it much easier. of course it can happen where guns are more tightly controlled. But.....

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I do get it and you are right in many ways. Cars are indeed designed to move people around. However I point to my most previous statement of personal responsibility. people misuse everyday things to an extent that they were never designed for, such as cars, without thinking of consequenses, and bad things happen, much more frequently than when violent cromes are commeitted with firearms. I am in no way trying to defend the criminal who uses firearms--my point is that they get these firearms illegally 90% of the time, if not more. Controlling the guns here will not end gun violence. There are even statistics that show a comparison of two towns who had oppoiste actions take place here in the US. one town allowed for homeowners to protect themselves via firearms. The other town banned them. The first town saw a sharp decline in crime, while the other town saw an increase. Why? because the knew they would have little opposition when they invaded someones property. I will try and find the article that has this information in it. but one last time, controlling the guns in this country is only limiting the ability for the person who is looking to do things the right way, the legal way. if there was a way to control the criminals from getting illegal firearms, we'd be having a completely different discussion right now... ;)

But thanks for your input. I always like to see things from others viewpoints and try to have an intelligent debate about it whenever possible. Hopefully I come off as intelligent... lol!!