Just how big is the libertarian constituency, Ben? Big enough to make a difference, or is it just to fill a small gap in the big tent?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
I doubt if it impinged that much on Obama's thinking.
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Just how big is the libertarian constituency, Ben? Big enough to make a difference, or is it just to fill a small gap in the big tent?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
I doubt if it impinged that much on Obama's thinking.
Quoting blogger Glenn Greenwald on President Obama: "He engineered the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. His Justice Department is refusing to defend the constitutionality of DOMA in court, a very unusual step. He has ushered in a series of important federal spousal benefits for gay employees of the federal government. And now, for the first time, the office of the American President is officially supporting a policy that a mere decade ago was deemed truly radical: same-sex marriage. Those are real achievements."
http://www.salon.com/writer/glenn_greenwald/
How big?????? Hard to say. But the established libertarian movement over here leans to the right. Not the left.Quote:
Originally Posted by robertlouis
One should note that there's a distinction between left-leaning libertarians like Noam Chomsky and right-leaning libertarians like Ron Paul.
But left-leaning libertarians don't get any, say, widespread press.... I mean, one would conclude that libertarians lean exclusively to the right.
This isn't true.
Here we go. Ol' wikipedia -- :)
Left-libertarianism:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism
Obama Endorses Marriage Equality…But Not for All:
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2012...ity-federalism
Interesting, although it came across as more a quick reaction than a constructed policy statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
But with Romney and his record, is his response:
a) personal belief
b) political calculation for his core constituency
c) another flip-flop.
Only he knows.
Thanks Ben. Interesting. But I'd reckon that the differences of opinion, if not of principle, between libertarians of left and right, are so enormous that giving them the same title is wildly misleadingQuote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Sums it up pretty well. It will change. Some people will always oppose it, but it will change in time.
And this is a historic moment to remember.
Yeah. And left-libertarianism thinks that people should control their own labor. Ya know, the people who work in the mills should own the mills. Noam Chomsky has also talked about nature having rights. (I mean, this is why the corporate press doesn't give them much, if any, attention. Because, in part, left-leaning libertarianism is to the left of so-called progressives and social democrats.) I mean, why should nature have rights, eh? ha ha ha!Quote:
Originally Posted by robertlouis
So, the natural world should have rights and animals should have rights and the animals in forests should have the right to live in those forests. (Actually, to underscore a crucial point: we often talk about how Native Indians/Americans were here first. Actually, that isn't entirely true. Bears, wolves, salmon, frogs etc., etc., etc., etc. were here first. And shouldn't they have rights? What about an actual forest? I mean, these are questions that never arise?
And that, too, extends to future generations. When we swat a mosquito that's a value judgement. We're saying the mosquito has no value. So, we, collectively, are saying future generations have no value because of what we're doing with respect to global warming.)
So, left-leaning libertarianism isn't exclusively business-based. They pose a lot more fundamental questions.
Questions seemingly ignored by most people and, of course, the mainstream/corporate press. Which is understandable. Because it isn't in their interests to talk about the rights of nature....
So the Libertarians have their roots in the Diggers of 17th century England. Winstanley lives on!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
As a trivial aside, Ben, you know my views on the attractions or otherwise of Derrick Barry, but I must say that your current avatar is the first pic I've seen where I've actually thought, "I very well might, you know....." lol.
Former VP Dick Cheney on gay marriage:
Dick Cheney on Same-Sex Marriage - YouTube
Author and blogger Glenn Greenwald puts it perfectly: "The President is not Our Father; he’s a politician who, like all people wielding political power, is in great need of constant critical scrutiny and adversarial checks — from all citizens, but especially media figures. Relating to him as some kind of guiding paternalistic authority is, I’m sorry to say, really quite warped. But it’s far from uncommon, and that explains a lot."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTQaw...ayer_embedded#!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdf4u...ayer_embedded#!
Another interesting quote from economist Paul Krugman: "... by the way, the idea of Obama as somebody who governs from the left.... I mean, Obama’s positions are those of a moderate Republican circa 1992. He’s not a leftist. What’s happening now is you have a radical-right Republic Party."Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Interesting article from 2008: "Wall Street puts its money behind Obama."
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2008/0...53525520080605
I consider myself of the so-called left. And we must understand that both parties are subservient to Wall Street and Big Business.
The Dems do not, contrary to leftist belief, serve the interests of ordinary Americans: small business owners, carpenters, electricians, teachers.... I mean, it's time to wake up and smell the cappuccino -- ha, ha! :)
And:
White House visitor logs provide window into lobbying industry:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...4dU_story.html
You children got hood-winked by the liberal press failing to properly vett the least prepared and least qualified candidate in modern times.
The business of America is business. No one close to "his narcissist" has ever been exposed to making a living except through big government.
The unions will go down this week in Wisconsin and again in November.
Cape Fear Laughing - YouTubeQuote:
Originally Posted by yourdaddy
Which party vetted Sarah Palin??
Love Obama? This Will Piss You Off (But You Need To Hear It):
Love Obama? This Will Piss You Off (But You Need To Hear It) - YouTube
McCain condemns Citizens United; predicts foreign money in American elections - YouTube
In Politics, blaming the other guy is key. How do you think Obama got elected?
Quote:
Originally Posted by trish
Not your party....lol. It was their surrogates in the press sending plane loads of reporters to Wasilla to comb through her old junior high year books, and every person she'd ever interacted with. I guess that's why they were too preoccupied to vet the other guy? Somethin' like that, I guess ! lmao
Naw, that's not how the liberal press did it. Why go to all that trouble (you know asking her trick questions like, "What newspapers do you read?") when the communists could just spy on Palin from the shores of Russia with their binoculars. LMAO@OMK-loser.
Hey you forgot to write 'lol'.....and while implicit in your gibberish you also forgot to mention 'Obama'. You're slipping...or maybe losing your mind? Did your left (or is that right) nut which got shaken loose from your HD still rolling around in your brain?Quote:
Originally Posted by onmyknees
Well thank goodness the media did a good job in exposing the ill-informed woman that Palin was. I guess it's not the job of the media to look under stones? And thank goodness also that they didn't bother with wasting time on the absurdities of the mythmaking birthers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by runningdownthatdream
What the fuck is your point? If it's an attempt at insult....you failed. I'm more amused than insulted. You're going to have to bring more than that. If your attempt was to insinuate anything I stated was inaccurate, you shouldn't be so obtuse....out with it. If your intent was to convey you're an Obama ass kisser and become prickly when anyone voices a contrary opinion, or evidence ... I think we already knew that, no newsflash there. You're a card carrying member of the 99.9 %ers in here........so what exactly was your point? Inane and lame are the words that come to mind......
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospero
The question was regarding vetting. You missed the point entirely. Of course the presses job is to look under rocks, as you put it. I'm not so sure it's their job to question the DNA of a disabled child, but maybe they turn over more rocks in the UK. The point I was trying to make was that some got vetted, some got anointed. The vetting is now underway, albeit 4 years late. Perhaps that's why Bill Clinton referred to him as an "Amateur" which coincidently is the name of a New York Times Best seller. Is it on your reading list?
I hope I've clarified sufficiently.
If any media was in the business of anointing political leaders as if they were spiritual guides and demonizing others as if they were...well demons, it's FOX. Fair and balanced news my ass. Fair and balanced news networks don't pay for, produce and run political adds.
Oh yeah, LMAO.
[QUOTE=trish;1154184]If any media was in the business of anointing political leaders as if they were spiritual guides and demonizing others as if they were...well demons, it's FOX. Fair and balanced news my ass. Fair and balanced news networks don't pay for, produce and run political adds.
I won't defend that one show, that one instance....unlike you of course who will on the other hand defend all the bilge on MSNBC night after night where hosts make political ads, then play their own ads on their shows as they did in Wisconsin....or the defamation suit pending against one of the hosts. You're not a dumb person, unlike some on here so If you can't see media bias, you're either ignorant, ambivalent, or blinded by your ideology....there's simply no other explanation. And by all means, continue to believe what you wanna believe, and don't allow anyone to dislodge your from your fantasies. BTW...are you still having those recurring delusions about the impact and veracity of OWS ? Now that's funny !
Wrong again. I don't even watch msnbc. Have you ever seen a post by me defending msnbc? Link it loser.
Wasn't this thread about Obama singing?
But that's just typical of you OMK. You got me stereotyped and you're convinced that I do all the things your ideology tells you people who fit into my stereotype do...in spite of the fact you never met me, never saw me post a defense of msnbc, and discussed this very issue twice before when you were also unable to provide evidence. Are that forgetful? That inobservant? That enthralled by ideology? Or have you just decided that lying is okay to make your point on a porn forum? What a fucking loser!
Well we have quite a few right wing nut jobs on here so you can pretty much figure out why it went to hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Token Williams-Black
I agree w/ this kid. Obama is making kids gay -- ha ha ha! That's why Obama ran for President. To make kids gay... ha ha ha!
Quoting the YoungTurks: 'A 14-year-old conservative radio host from West Virginia recently claimed that President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden were "making kids gay" by supporting LGBT rights.'
Anyway, most teenagers don't have their political philosophy fully formed. I was quite right wing as a teen. And then I saw the leftist light.... However, I do support gun rights. Which so-called liberals/leftists are staunchly opposed to.
Part of the problem with aligning oneself with a political affiliation, as it were, is that groupthink takes over. Ya know, these are the positions you're supposed to have. I'm so-called leftist. But, well, I waver on the death penalty. Again, I support gun rights. However, I'm for a woman's right to choose etc.
Obama Is 'Making Kids Gay' Says 14-Year-Old Conservative Talk Show Host - YouTube
If we're going to live in a pure/libertarian market system, well, we have to privatize the fire department. Well, it could work. Hopefully the Koch brothers and Bill Gates invest heavily in firefighting.
Wildfires could be great for the profit system...
Well, the GNP would go up. Which is always a positive. As it goes up when there are car accidents -- :)
Economic growth and GNP growth are always positive. No matter how we get there -- ;)
Conservatives Blame Obama For Colorado Wildfires - YouTube
Bill McKibben - Downsides to Economic Growth - YouTube
Obama sucks big balls one hit wonder...........
Obamagayt, innit! :shrugQuote:
Originally Posted by Ben
Obama singing
Obama! A Modern U.S. President (musical spoof) - YouTube
Obama is... right:
Obama: If you've been successful you didn't get there on your own - YouTube