What is worse, this purrfectly daft story, or that so many people believe it?
JD Vance tries to rehabilitate his image with cats in the most bizarre, racist way | The Independent
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What is worse, this purrfectly daft story, or that so many people believe it?
JD Vance tries to rehabilitate his image with cats in the most bizarre, racist way | The Independent
The moreQuote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
Shady JD Vance talks,the more he exposes himself for the racist sexist jackass that he is.
I watched last night's debate and it showed the contrast between the campaigns. Vice President Kamala Harris was well prepared and answered all of the questions the moderators asked her,and all of her answers were very descriptive and detailed and fact checked Donald Trump on every lie he told. The Convicted Felon Donald Trump was unprepared and didn't answer any of the questions,and was rambling about nonsense for over 90 minutes. And also liked when Kamala Harris said the following about Donald Trump: He was fired by 81 million people,World Leaders were laughing at him,Vladimir Putin would eat him for lunch. And the reason why people leave his rallies because they're bored. Those four comments really got under his skin and was very irritated and didn't have a comeback answer,and was annihilated,embarrassed,humiliated and smoked. Now the american people know the reason Donald Trump didn't want too debate Kamala Harris,because he knew that she would expose him for the charlatan and fraud that he is. And when the debate ended,Vice President Kamala Harris Campaign said they were ready for a second debate,meanwhile Donald Trump ran to the Fox Propaganda Channel to whine,bitch and moan about the moderators and ABC. And looking forward to seeing Minnesota Governor Tim Walz taking Shady JD Vance to the woodshed in the Vice Presidental Debate.
I don't get it. Yes, the auto industry has taken a hammering in Michigan, that was always going to be the case with more robotics, the transfer of production out of state even out of country -Reagan after all was the President who 'shipped jobs to Mexico' as JD Vance once complained (his target was Senator Joe Biden)- and I also assume some of the residents of Saginaw moved to where the jobs are, one of the most common features of social life in the USA.
But what do they think Trump is going to go that will bring jobs and local prosperity back? Tariffs? Lower taxes? They had the protest vote in 2016, are so many people stuck in a doom loop that they hear the same old drivel from the Beast and vote the same way again? What did Trump do for them the first time round? I am not saying Harris can transform Saginaw, because their problem is structural not incidental. Or maybe some new industry will save them?
And is it really 'America in decline' when these structural shifts have affected local economies for more than 100 years of capitalism?
Trump’s message of American decline resonates in Michigan - BBC News
Springfield, Ohio, where a Haitian worker can earn $13 dollars an hour in an Amazon warehouse that used to pay locals $21 an hour. Do the maths, then ask what would Trump have done if he were the owner of the business and he found a way to cut costs and increase revenues? Then ask what he will do if President, remove all the Haitian immigrants from the country and re-hire the locals -on $13 an hour? 'They' are not taking locals jobs, 'they' are being given jobs by the local employers, it is called Capitalism, but I think these days the party of Reagan has rejected free market economics for Fascism, an extreme form of Nationalism that replaces markets by 'national' concepts of loyalty based on 'values' and in the American case, the colour of a person's skin; or what Tucker Carlson once called 'Legacy Americans'.
The same kind of rumour mill that ground out anti-Muslim garbage when three girls were murdered in a dance class in the UK in July -note that there was butchery of animals but not in Springfield, and not by a Haitian, and 170 miles away from Springfield. But hey, Trump saw it on the tee-vee so I guess he thinks he knows....
The article is here in full before it is shuttered behind the Telegraph's paywall. There are also photos in the link, including of American Nazis.
Telegraph
Trump’s right, there is a migrant problem in Springfield, Ohio – just not the one he thinks
Trump’s baseless tales of Haitians stealing pets are masking real concerns in the Midwest city
Edward Helmore, in Springfield, Ohio12 September 2024 • 3:32pm
In Springfield, Ohio, a quiet, low-lying city of just under 60,000 people on the banks of the Mad River, migrants are eating pet cats and dogs.
At least that is what the former president of the United States believes.
Donald Trump’s claims during Tuesday’s presidential debate will almost certainly go down as one of his most memorable moments from the campaign – and perhaps even a turning point in the election.
As fanciful as they are (based largely on a medley of social media posts and half-truths), some people in Springfield are not prepared to take the risk.
Alexis House, 21, said locals are now “trying to keep their pets in instead of letting them roam around”.
“Almost everyone believes the rumours because there have been a lot of other problems.”
Some of the problems Alexis refers to are no doubt related to the about 15,000 immigrants who have settled from Haiti over the last three years – drawn here in part by the lure of low-paid jobs at a massive Amazon distribution warehouse – and are reshaping the city.
Tensions with the local community have led to groups of neo-Nazis marching in the streets in recent weeks.
On a visit on Wednesday, The Telegraph found that Trump’s intervention had exacerbated a situation now familiar across the US.
The local police department was forced to clarify that it had “no credible reports or specific claims of pets being harmed, injured or abused by individuals within the immigrant community”.
Rob Rue, Springfield’s mayor, says the rumours have allowed “national rhetoric to come into our community and divide us”.
Viles Dorsainvil, director of Springfield’s Haitian health and support centre, says that Trump has stirred the pot.
“It’s devastating for the Haitian community in Springfield and it’s created fear for our members, who are scared for their lives and the lives of their kids, especially after what’s been happening in Haiti,” Mr Dorsainvil says.
The Haitian Times reported that some families were keeping their children home from school, while others said they were subject to bullying, assaults and intimidation in front of their homes amid racist rhetoric on social media.
“We are not here to create harm in the community, we are here to work and send money back to our families,” said Mr Dorsainvil. “But we fear this could escalate to violence.”
Rose-Thamar Joseph, who works at the centre, pointed out that the community numbering a quarter of Springfield’s population had come to the city because of the cheap housing and the opportunity to work, often at a nearby Amazon distribution warehouse, an auto parts or metal work plant.
With many coming under work-authorised Temporary Protected Status and others under more opaque circumstances through Mexico, the last thing the community needed or deserved was to be the focus of national political attention.
“They’re in double-trouble here because they’re foreign and they’re black in a closed-minded section of the country that is expanding maybe too quickly,’ said Valerie Hinch, a retired community worker who was dining at the Rose Goute Haitian restaurant in Springfield’s southside.
“My New York friends are sending me messages, ‘Val, be careful of your cats.’ But it’s not funny, it’s sad and ignorant.”
Several Haitian men flatly denied that animals were being taken. “It’s bull----,” said Joy, from Petionville in Port-au-Prince, Haiti’s capital, who declined to fully identify himself.
But tensions in Springfield are real, and with them come unwelcome displays. Last month, 12 people carrying swastika flags and rifles while wearing ski masks walked around the downtown area during the Springfield Jazz & Blues Fest.
The pet abduction rumours in Springfield appear to have begun 170 miles away in Canton, where police charged 27-year-old Allexis Ferrell with animal cruelty and disorderly conduct after she allegedly “did torture, kill, and eat a cat in a residential area in front (of) multiple people” on Aug 26.
According to the Associated Press, a post on a private Facebook page, “Springfield Ohio Crime and Information”, read: “Warning to all about our beloved pets & those around us!! My neighbour informed me that her daughter’s friend had lost her cat. She checked pages, kennels, asked around, etc.
“One day she came home from work, as soon as she stepped out of her car, looked towards a neighbour’s house, where Haitians live, & saw her cat hanging from a branch, like you’d do a deer for butchering, & they were carving it up to eat. I’ve been told they are doing this to dogs, they have been doing it at Snyder Park with the ducks & geese, as I was told that last bit by Rangers & police. Please keep a close eye on these animals.”
Meanwhile, a post on Facebook by a woman named Annie Schlicher also circulated, claiming that someone at her work had heard from a relative who claimed he had seen a Haitian man catch and cut the head off a goose in front of children in a Springfield park.
Pet abduction rumours may be no more than a mask for deeper resentments.
A US government survey estimates that 10 million migrants have crossed the US-Mexico border in the past four years. Just 1 per cent are unable to work, compared to 5 per cent of the indigenous US population owing to drug addiction or disability. Democrats now concede that without that labour force influx and mobility, wage pressures created by unfilled jobs in the absence of migrants would lead to higher inflation.
‘Used to be no problem finding a job’
Rolland Foor and his partner Maggie Crooks, both 52, said they had been living in their SUV – heavily decorated with pro-Trump slogans – since he lost his job as a forklift operator. “Me and my co-workers were told at the end of our shift we were done,” Mr Foor said.
“I was making $21 an hour. The company brought in 15 Haitians and we found out they were taking our jobs. All because of $21 an hour versus $13 an hour. We lost everything due to them coming in here. There used to be no problem finding a job.”
In turn, he said, he knew many people who had lost their homes because landlords had turned out tenants so they could raise the rent by housing migrants on TPS government support. “There’s tons of anger in town,” Mr Foor said.
“I’m always willing to accept migrants coming in just so long as they meet the requirements of becoming a citizen and not just here, kiss my ass, you’ve got citizenship, which I feel is what Joe Biden did,” Ms Crooks added. “He sold us out.”
Carlton Corbin, a security guard, said the government benefits to migrants were not available to Americans. “That’s not right. We can’t get the help they’re getting for just coming over here?
“That’s un-American. Be legit. Don’t come over here and take our resources and then there’s none for people who work their asses off to have it.”
Jessica Hannah, 41, said her discomfort with the newcomers was not racial but cultural. “I get they’re seeking political asylum but, man, we’re getting to the point where it’s so overrun.”
Her partner said he had lost a dog: “I don’t know what happened,” Ms Hannah said. “Really don’t have a clue.”
As it stands, any missing pet in Springfield is likely to be blamed on the Haitians.
“There will be people that believe it, no matter how ludicrous and stupid it is,” John Kirby, the White House national security spokesman, said Wednesday. “And they might act on that kind of information, and act on it in a way where somebody could get hurt. So it needs to stop.”
But it is the politicians who are capitalising on the false rumours. One billboard, by Arizona’s Republican Party and depicting four kittens, urges people to “Vote Republican!” and “Eat Less Kittens.”".
Why Springfield believes Trump’s claims migrants are eating their cats (telegraph.co.uk)
Where are the media calls for Donald Trump to step down following his disastrous debate performance?
1. Of all the reasons for Donald Trump to step down, his disastrous debate performance isn't one of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo
2. If he did drop out, depending on who replaces him, there is a good chance that they will beat Kamala Harris in November. That would be the last thing that some in the media would want to happen.
3. For the last time, Biden was the President of the United States, not your significant other. Stop getting defensive about what happened to him.
Trump isn't going to step down for the same reason Biden didn'tQuote:
Originally Posted by blackchubby38
-Too huge of an ego.
The only way that Trump will step down is if his own party gangs up on him like the Democrats ganged up on Biden to step down.
Biden didn't step down?Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFanti
For me the key aspect of this story, is the one that is not being discussed: how the Republican Party has gone from being a party of Ronald Reagan and Free Markets, or Market Forces if you prefer, to replacing Markets with Government, in effect the opposite of what Reagan wanted. Just as JD Vance has chastised Biden for voting to 'ship jobs to Mexico' without mentioning that it was Reagan's law, so today there is no discussion around a Trump Presidency deciding who gets to work in Springfield, Ohio, and deporting the workers who did not invade the town and demand jobs, but were hired in a free market. And were better for the employers doing what Capitalists have been doing even before George Washington was born: exploiting workers.
So is Trump if he wins going to send goons all round the USA to round up foreign workers, some Asians and Latinos, but mostly Black of course, who will work for $13 an hour rather than $21? Or to put it another, 'we are from the Government, and we are here to tell you who to hire'.
And how much will this economic and social 'structural adjustment' (as the IMF used to call it) cost the taxpayer?
‘They’ve destroyed the place’: Trump repeats racist, anti-immigrant lies | Donald Trump | The Guardian
So now we know (but honestly, is anyone surprised?) it was garbage from the start, but nobody in a responsible position could be bothered to do any due diligence but declare before millions of Americans 'I saw it on television'.
In July there were riots in the UK when it was claimed a Muslim asylum seeker who had arrived on a boat across the English Channel had stabbed and murdered three young girls in a dance class. The killer was born in Cardiff, was not a Muslim, and the cost of those lies has been measured in lives ruined, people in prison, buildings damaged. But are the reputations of Nigel Farage or anyone else who spewed this drivel seriously damaged in return?
Are Trump and Vance now going to publicly apologize for smearing Springfield? As if. The moral collapse of these people may not even be complete, as every time they appear to have hit rock bottom, they find new depths of depravity to parade in front the the American people, and for that matter the rest of the world, who still cannot believe a pathological liar and convicted criminal thinks he is qualified to be President, supported in this endeavour by people who would be on permanent berserk mode if it were a Democrat.
"On Friday, a Springfield woman, Erika Lee, apologized for rumors about Haitian immigrants eating pets that resulted from a post she wrote on Facebook claiming that the friend of a neighbor’s daughter lost her cat – and then found the animal strung up outside the home of a Haitian family.Lee now says she had no firsthand knowledge of the claim. The neighbor referenced in the post, Kimberly Newton, revealed that she also had heard the story from an acquaintance and not her daughter.
Lee said she was filled with regret and insists she never intended to put a target on the backs of the Haitian community."
More bomb threats hit Springfield, Ohio, after Trump elevates false claims about Haitians | Ohio | The Guardian
He didn't, he decided not to run for re-election. There's a difference. Although I have a hunch that he will step down if Kamala wins in November.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzcarraldo
JD Vance now admits he 'creates stories', and really doesn't care if they are true or false. This is from someone who attacks 'the Woke left' for the Foucault inspired view that identity is whatever you want it to be, thus denying the immutable reality of being a biological man or woman -only in this case, truth is as flexible as Vance wants it to be, Foucault be damned.
And just as he attacked Joe Biden as a Senator who through the NAFTA 'shipped jobs to Mexico' without also mentioning other Senators who voted for it, Republicans like McConnell, Gingrich and Grassley, not to mention the man most enthusiastic about it, Ronald Reagan, so in the case of Springfield we have this drivel-
"Vance ultimately defended his endorsement of the lies about Springfield as calling attention to the immigration policies at the White House while Harris has served as vice-president to Joe Biden.“I’m not mad at Haitian migrants for wanting to have a better life,” Vance said. “We’re angry at Kamala Harris for letting this happen.”".
Then this (my emphasis in bold) :
"About 15,000 immigrants began trickling into Springfield – a city of about 60,000 – in 2017 to work in local produce packaging and machining factories. They have been particularly in demand at a vegetable manufacturer and at automotive machining plants whose owners were experiencing a labor shortage in the wake of the Covid-19 pandemic.
The Republican governor of Ohio, Mike DeWine, said on Sunday on ABC’s This Week that Haitians in Springfield “are here legally”.
“What the employers tell you is, you know, we don’t know what we would do without them,” DeWine said. “They are working. And they are working very hard. And they’re fitting in.”".
Anyone care to remind Vance Harris was not President in 2017, but Trump was.
The man is an idiot, and he doesn't care if everyone knows it. Like John Cage said of his music 'I have nothing to say, and I'm saying it'. At least that was zen. Vance has zilch.
Why would he do that? He was denied a transition period for his term. I can't imagine he would handicap his successor the same way.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchubby38
Whoever you're assuming would beat Harris in November, are probably the very same candidates that had their incompetent asses handed to them by Trump in GOP's Republican Primary.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchubby38
Why do you think Trump is the lead GOP runner for US President from the GOP side ? The other GOP candidates are apparently worthless competition.
Truth is the first casualty of war, but who is the enemy? Is it Biden and Harris, as Trump says? In the link below you can see Stephen Miller first claiming crime in Venezuela is down 60% because it has exported its criminals/gangs to the US, but when asked to authenticate the figure, dodges the answer by launching into a tirade that if anything is designed to cover up the absence of facts, just as the questioner suggests Miller is accepting what the Maduro govt says. As for Venezuela being a 'poor country' -yes, it has made a mess of its economy, but with some of the largest reserves of petroleum in the world, poor is not quite right.
Whatever, who cares?
(Scroll down to get to the Miller exchange).
Mark Cuban Puts Stephen Miller On The Spot: 'Does Donald Trump Make Products Overseas? Yes Or No?' In Tariff Debate (yahoo.com)
Here is a curious situation -JD Vance says he has not discussed abortion with Trump after Trump in the TV 'debate' also said he had not discussed it with Vance, yet Abortion has become one of the most talked about policies in the US election. Can you imagine the two of them not talking about immigration, or taxes or Ukraine?
Or maybe they just don't talk to each other...suggesting...
Meanwhile, it is good to see Kamala Harris going on the offensive on this policy
Harris says Trump’s anti-abortion policies to blame for death of mother in Georgia – live (theguardian.com)
But again, what is the point of discussing a 'Federal Abortion Ban' if the decision is for States to decide? In other words, on Abortion, the President and Congress are literally irrelevant -and powerless.
You seem to think Vance is something more than a cheap warm-up act for Trump…
He is, I understand, a millionaire, and they don't come cheap. The more worrying thing is that Vance is assumed to be the Brains to match Trump's Brawn, though one wonders if he ever thinks deeply about the things that he says. Or maybe he has realized that just as Trump can say any old rubbish as if it is true, so can Brains...Quote:
Originally Posted by rodinuk
Analysis: Vance warns calling a candidate a ‘fascist’ can lead to violence but doesn’t mention that’s what Trump calls Harris (yahoo.com)
I’m saying he’s cheap compared to Trump’s monetary worth and I maintain he’s just a ventriloquist’s dummy
Ok I get your point, but it does raise the question of Trump's wealth, and how to calculate it. Obviously he has real estate assets, though just as in the past he falsified values to get loans on the one hand, tax relief on the other, such is his reputation as a liar and a convicted fraud, on top of the millions of dollars that owes in fines awarded by the Courts -which so far I don't think he has paid in full- plus outstanding debts with Deutsche Bank, we don't know. But I think a devaluation of the real estate is inevitable as buyers or potential buyers will squeeze him if he needs to sell. Given that the stock value of the recent media company has fallen and may continue to fall, Trump's move into fake money ie CryptoCurrency, which he has ridiculed in the past, may be seen by him as a necessary step if he is to find other sources of revenue than trainers, bibles and fragments of his suit. He is a con man and always has been, and I suppose some get away with it, and Trump is clearly treated differently from other Americans, but who knows how this will end? If it ever ends.Quote:
Originally Posted by rodinuk
As for Vance, he says it is wrong for critics to label Trump and his supporters Fascists because it inspires violence, while choosing to ignore Trump's using the same word about Kamala Harris. He also says he can make up any lies he wants because it is the job of the media to prove he is lying, rather like Trump saying if he wants to he can describe his apartment as the largest in Manhattan and it is up to the Banks to do the due diligence. So I guess I could ask for a loan from my Bank by saying my apartment is worth £1 million and it is up to them to prove it, though I am sure loan agreements have clauses on the truth of the information to which one puts a signature-?
As we see now every day, lies have replaced truth, and is has become an addiction.
Here in the UK health care was one of the key election issues this year.
So why, in the US election is health care a side issue? I understand that if the election is presented as an existential choice -either candidate X or the US is finished as a country, etc- but for most people, as the article below suggests, health care is one of their priority issues. I assume this is also true of education and housing, two issues that don't seem to exist in the campaigning I have seen, though I concede I only follow it from what we get here, though such is the obsession with Trump (and he and his supporters are obsessed with him too) I don't see much about education and housing as priority issues on channels like YouTube, and it doesn't seem to feature in newspapers like the NYT, though I don't scour most US papers on a daily basis.
Hence this survey
"The United States health system ranked dead last in an international comparison of 10 peer nations, according to a new report by the Commonwealth Fund.In spite of Americans paying nearly double that of other countries, the system performed poorly on health equity, access to care and outcomes."
US health system ranks last compared with peer nations, report finds | US news | The Guardian
By way of contrast- I left school at the age of 16, and apart from the time spent unemployed, or when I became a student, I paid into the NHS on a monthly basis, the contribution (National Insurance) being deducted from my salary in the same way as it deducts Income Tax and Pension Funds. But apart from a few visits to my General Practitioner for minor things like Tonsilitis, for which I needed a sick note for my employers, I did not need to use the NHS until the first signs of a chronic problem in my 50s. Since 2017 I have been in and out of hospital, meaning explorations of my organs in outpatient clinics, followed by operations (five in all) requiring stays or 1-2 days, and on another occasion two weeks of hospitalization due to a crisis, all backed up by medication, which today means a breakfast of six different tablets.
How much has it cost me? In monetary terms, absolutely nothing. My guess is that if I was in the US, I would now be either loaded with debt, or dead.
The US doesn't have to choose the NHS model, there are others, such as the systems in France and Germany or Sweden, where as a matter of principle, health care is a service rather than a business, and that is why the US is now ranked so low, and until the US ranks the health and education of its citizens as top priorities, health care will be a major cause of bankruptcy, anxiety, and in its absence, death.
You can do better, so do it.
Trump and the Republican Party war on America has put Springfield, Ohio in the cross-hairs of party lunatics and gun-totin' terrorists.
So what about Aurora, Colorado? Same old garbage, courtesy of Stephen Miller and the truth-demolition squads at war with America.
Truth is out there for all to see in Aurora while Trump promotes a dangerous lie (coloradosun.com)
This is hilarious- Republicans at war over weed!
Republicans Are in a Civil War Over Trump’s Weed Plan (yahoo.com)
Smokin'! Somebody Stop Me - The MASK-The Great Jim Carrey (youtube.com)
Vance's office did do due diligence. He just chose to ignore what they were told, that the rumours were false.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/20/p...ort/index.html
Thanks for the clarification, but it makes it worse. Perhaps in this situation we can sat V is for Venal.Quote:
Originally Posted by filghy2
I have just linked an article in the Guardian on LGBTQ+ policy in Thought for the Day, and now think I probably should have put it here as an election issue.
Tren de Aragua gangbanger charged over viral video of gun-toting migrants terrorizing Aurora, Colo. — after local cops initially denied group was part of Venezuelan gangQuote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
nypost.com/2024/09/25/us-news/tren-de-aragua-gang-member-charged-over-aurora-migrant-crime-video/
ICE Releases Damning Border Report Amid Kamala Harris Visit
www.newsweek.com/ice-damning-border-report-kamala-harris-visit-1960689
Re the Aurora link, quoteQuote:
Originally Posted by blackchubby38
"However, American Immigration senior fellow Aaron Reichlin-Melnick said online that "millions of people on ICE's non-detained dockets have been here for decades."Alex Nowrasteh, of the Cato Institute public policy think tank added that the ICE report on illegal criminal convictions covers decades and not just the last few years."".
So that includes the years when Trump was President?
Has Aurora been 'taken over' by Venezuelan gangs? Do they stop people in the street and rob them? Visit residents in groups of five with guns to rob them?
At what point does a problem become a catastrophe -and when, and now did the Mafia/Cosa Nostra arrive in the US?
I had a feeling someone what is going to mention that part of the article.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stavros
It would be helpful if the person from Cato Institute gave us breakdown so we could know what percentage have been here for decades vs a few years.
Aurora may have not been taken over by Venezuelan gangs as you so sarcastically put it, but the fact that they are here is what the problem is. Especially when you take into consideration that fear of criminal gangs is supposedly one of the reasons why many Venezuelan migrants came to the United States to begin with.
When Biden was running for reelection, I always believed that if he lost it was going to be because of the two "I" issues, Immigration (Although it should be referred to Migration) and Inflation. That belief has not changed now that Kamala Harris has become the Democratic nominee.
It doesn't matter what took place during previous administrations in regards to immigration. We are talking about what has happened since the Biden-Harris administration took office in 2021 and the influx of migrants that started coming to this country since then. Instead of handling the problem, this is pretty much what we heard from the administration and their supporters:
2021- "The border is secure"
2022- "There isn't a border crisis".
2023- "Only Congress can do something about the border". (Yes I know about the bill that failed because of Trump's interference)
Cut to 2024 - Biden- "I'm taking executive action to handle the border crisis" (which BTW is similar to the word catastrophe).
Ok I was being sarcastic, but in truth I think that Immigration legal, Immigration illegal, Migration etc has become not just a toxic political problem, but one that does not appear to have a reasonable solution, and this is as true of the US as it is with the UK, and to some extent the Mediterranean.
I cannot really offer a reasonable response, other than to say that what I think is different from years past is the volume of people moving in a short space of time. This excludes those Haitians who have been admitted and seem to have found work and a degree of stability in places like Springfield, Ohio going back more than 5 years, which is why I find that aspect of the Trump/Vance hate machine so truly bad. Isn't this the kind of immigration that the US is supposed to welcome? Those leaving a distressed environment who go to the US, and work and pay taxes, etc? Have they been a curse on Ohio, or a blessing?
Germany took in over 1 million Syrians, Turkey even more. Israel has made the best part of 2 million homeless in Gaza, the potential homeless in Lebanon in one week is now approaching 1 million, or a 5th of the population, and there are significant displacements in Sudan, all of this without adding in the chronic failures in Honduras and El Salvador feeding the march North to the US. If it was the other way round, how many Israelis would be looking for an exit to the US, indeed, how many have already abandoned Israel for the US, which they could do owing to dual nationality, American relatives, and so on?
I accept that with such numbers there is a crisis of politics, but if the crisis at its root is not in the US, what can the US do about it whether it is is Trump or Biden in charge? After all, Harris went to Central America to deal with it at source, and evidently came back with nothing.
One smallish point, because here Farage goes on about it -most of these migrant/immigrant people are young and healthy so they don't cause much strain to health services.
But I guess they can work for less than the minimum wage, they must have accommodation problems when they first arrive, and if they have children, schooling and related issues. But is it impossible for the US to absorb 'newcomers' over time, say 1-5 years? How many scare stories have there been since the 19th century over 'too many' Hungarians, Italians, Chinese -name your people- 'coming here'? Over time, they are absorbed into the workforce, most get jobs, most find somewhere to live. Most are not escaped criminals or mentally ill, and most American victims of rape and murder are raped and murdered by other Americans.
And if freedom has any meaning, should all of us be free to live wherever we choose?
Immigration in the UK became a toxic issue in the late 1960s early 1970s as East African Asians were expelled from Kenya and Uganda, and because they had British passports issued when those African countries were still part of the British Empire, they could not be stopped from entering. Hysteria in the press, blatant racist filth in the media, a crisis in Govt which led to an Immigration Act in 1971 in an attempt to 'control' it. In the end, c30,000 came over a period of 5 years; of whom not a few became millionaire business successes, one of their children a prominent (but corrupt) Member of Parliament. In other words, it was a crisis, we got over it, the immigrants were successful, nobody now talks about it.
At the very least, I would hope people reject the horrible, nasty rhetoric of Trump and Vance, that they at least try, and try again for a reasonable solution that doesn't play to fear and loathing. Because it won't stop, whatever happens in Govt in the US (or the UK). Sorry I can't be more positive.
Food for thought...
With the exception of Trump, Democrats have been in the White House for 12 out of the last 16 years.....
Some things never seem to change in the USA.Quote:
Originally Posted by blackchubby38
"The refugees seeking haven in America were poor and disease-ridden. They threatened to take jobs away from Americans and strain welfare budgets. They practiced an alien religion and pledged allegiance to a foreign leader. They were bringing with them crime. They were accused of being rapists.
These undesirables were Irish."
https://www.history.com/news/when-am...refugee-crisis
Regardless of what should have been done on the border, the alleged link between immigrants and crime (which you seem to be endorsing) does not appear to be supported by evidence. Obviously a single case does not establish a general problem. In fact, the available evidence suggests that the crime rate among unauthorised immigrants is lower than that of the general population.
https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/...n-citizen-rate
I'm sure they never mention this in the NY Post, but it's also a fact that the biggest recent increase in crime in the US occurred in 2020 when Trump was President. Crime rates have been declining since 2021.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-relea...ion-statistics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._homicide_rate
Yeah, I don't need the history lesson when it comes to immigration in the United States. I know it chapter and verse.Quote:
Originally Posted by filghy2
I'm also not endorsing a link between immigrants and crime. I'm giving an update on one story and the other is relevant to an issue in the upcoming election. Its not my fault that the New York Post is one of the few news organizations that isn't behind a paywall.
When it comes to immigrants and crime. The problem isn't with the ones that are here looking for a better a life. It is the ones that were criminals before they came to the United States and are continuing to do so once they got here. Which is once again the issue. Those are the ones that shouldn't have been allowed to cross the border.
Speaking of which, how do you think a migrant from Venezuela who came here seeking a better life feels when they know that some of the people who are responsible for them leaving their country in the first place, wind up being in the same facilities as them.
Finally, in regards to the recent increase in crime. What happened in 2020 that played a part in that happening? The pandemics and lockdowns. Which is further evidence that if it wasn't for Covid, there is a good chance Trump would have been reelected.
But that just returns us to the maddening question: why do so many Americans think Trump -and the people associated with him- would be good for the USA? Most everyone knows Trump is a liar, and most, I am sure, know he is, to use that American phrase, a 'dumbass'. But he is not Ronald Reagan, not even GW Bush, so I remain puzzled at the appeal of such an angry, spiteful, crude individual who seems to think revenge should be the main driver of policy. And yet, the majority of Americans who did vote in 2020, as in 2016, voted Democrat not Trump, so while this might shift the ultimate decision to the Electoral College rather than the people, Trump remains somewhere near the top. And what Covid did was expose the simple fact that Trump, and his White House team, were incompetent at management, or worse, that they presided over the death of a million Americans and did not, and do not seem to care about that. Science, like democracy is Bullshit, Nick Fuentes is a dinner guest, Tucker Carlson America's only public intellectual, Elon Musk the Visionary Commander of Comms.
And we return to that other unanswered question -if Trump were to encourage the Supreme Court to send crucial decisions to the State, declining to get involved, what would be the purpose of Congress? And why not make the Presidency merely a ceremonial position?
Four more years of Trump and the 'United States' might become 50 independent ones, with the scary prospect that were Trump to put it to voters half of the current 50 would say Aye. It would be like Brexit, the one outcome that was the least expected takes the US into a new era -of chaos, with violent hated at its core, and Trump making millions if not billions from whatever tacky merchandise he can make, having raided the Treasury for his own benefit, and either imprisoned his rivals, or used the courts to bankrupt them.
The furore over criminals entering the US illegally and staying is thus used as the wedge to prise apart the Union. Or maybe the truth is that the South never changed, they never lost the Civil War, just a heap of battles; they just retreated in a 'stand down and stand by' mode, waiting for their Messiah to return and lead them to ultimate victory, and send the Blacks back to Africa.
The future's bleak, the future's orange.
A win for the Globalist ran Democrats will be a disaster for the US , i do get the people over there have had their brains frazzed by the media into believing on one side Trump is the devil and in the other he is the Messiah.
A classic example of just how brainwashed people have become is when the same people who rushed to get the vaccine refused point blank to get it when he was in power, insanity but we're living in a Clown World now where rapists and murderers are being let out of prison to make room for people who are worried about the crazy rise in crime statistics since our politicians rolled out the red carpet for anyone with a pulse who isn’t a British citizen
^^Premier League novel writing at its finest‘Return of the Native’ byThomas Hardy (with a little help from Monty Python)Quote:
A Saturday afternoon in November was approaching the time of twilight, and the vast tract of unenclosed wild known as Egdon Heath embrowned itself moment by moment
.....believing that only two parties exist........Quote:
Originally Posted by JDunn
I don't understand the point about vaccines, and after 200 years of immunology, a science that has transformed global health, I am amazed anyone can ignore the science to make some lame political point that, if extended into practice, would reverse those gains and lead people to infection, misery and possibly death.Quote:
Originally Posted by JDunn
As for the 'rapists and murderers...being let out of prison', this is explicitly not part of the Govt's policy, and is something that about 10 seconds of a google search would confirm (other search engines being available),
"Fact check: Early prison release to exclude serious violent and sexual offenders - PA Media
And anyway, this thread is not about politics in the UK but the US elections.
The disaffection with 'Globalism' that is a key feature of the Trump campaign has grown since 2008 and the supply chain crisis since Covid, but is rooted in something quite different, namely Economic Nationalism. What is most fascinating about this is how Conservatives in the US have, in effect, abandoned the Free Market economics of Ronald Reagan, who was President when as JD Vance once put it 'all those jobs were shipped to Mexico' through NAFTA.
What Economic Nationalism does is reinforce the concept of the 'Nation' as the fundamental unit of identity, with the difficulty of knowing who belongs in this 'Nation' -but if you look at the French version, Marine Le Pen has stated 'there is no longer a left or a right, there is only Globalists and Patriots', a revision of the old racist, anti-Semitic slogan 'La France aux Français', which in a mangled form was key to the racist element in Brexit.
It is also known as the politics of failure, which is why Trump represents a crisis for the US as neither he nor his supporters share the same fidelity to the Constitution and what it represents as most other Americans. There is a lot riding on this election.