Re: Black Transgender Not Allowed to Claim Self-Defense ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InHouston
CeCe shouldn't have tripped out, and lunged and stabbed someone with a pair of scissors who didn't throw the bottle at her in the first place. That was stupid of her to do that, and is why she's in the hot water she is. Hell, they'll charge you with murder here in Texas for that too.
This is going to be a long reply because I live in Minneapolis and have also been attacked by a drunk who nearly killed me.
Had she as well as her friends just been accosted and attacked YES
Was he with the group that attacked her YES
Was CeCe Tripping out... NO but the person she struck clearly was with traces of Meth, Coke, and varoius other substances in his blood, your telling me that puts you in a stable frame of mind???
Was he continuing to threaten and move towards her in an aggressive fashion YES (boxing stance motions while moving closer and verbal)
Did she have reason to fear for her personal and physical safety YES.
Did she freak out and run away - YES a short distance to a safer location and then flagged down a police car herself... not exactly the actions of someone who's intent was to kill.
Could it have been handled differently YES and of course it might be CeCe who might be dead in that case... nobody can say because thats the way it went down.
Murder is premeditated a planned taking of life done in advance, manslaughter is not premeditated but not a justifiable use of force and is intended to do others harm, self defense is striking out scared out of your wits that if you dont you will suffer bodily harm ( or more bodily harm )
self defense ... Next...
Would she be charged for murder in Texas... yeah probably... sorry but Texas isnt exactly known for lenient laws or for progressive understanding of racial and sexual orientation, not attempting to bash Texas here just speaking historically, things can and do change.
Sorry but this issue hits home for me as I live in Minneapolis and while I dont know CeCe I know the type of hostility that can materialize as a TS just walking down the street going by a bar with people hanging out front... It can get scary to the point where you have no idea whats going to happen next so its really hard to make the right call after being hit in the head with a bottle or brick and somebody is moving toward you acting like hes going into a middle weight bout and you still have blood streaming down your face from what happened two minutes ago...
chances are at that moment NOBODY is going to make their most clear headed decisions, you would react any way you think that will keep you from getting hurt or killed
I speak from experience, I was attacked by a drunken male who proceeded to smash a phone into my temple, then broke a bar stool over my shoulder and proceeded to beat me with a leg from the busted bar stool. I had a knife and pulled it out but couldnt bring myself to use it, he went into an angry rant standing over me and I made a mad lunge for the door and scrambled down the hall jumping into a (fortunately open) elevator and slamming the down button before the drunk could catch up staggering after me.
I suffered a fractured skull, fractured shoulder blade, multiple fractures on both forearms from when I covered my head to avoid getting hit in the head by the bar stool leg. The doctor was astonished it wasnt worse from the pounding I took and said I did the right thing covering up because if my head took the beating my arms took I would be dead. Now remember I was armed but didnt do anything, I just got lucky that the elevator door was wide open when I made a break to get out of there or he would have caught me and continued.
I called the cops, waited over half an hour scared shitless in a parking lot waiting for them to arrive before a friend of mine got there and drove me home, cops still hadnt shown, finally the next morning the came to my house and got my story and went and picked up the guy who was still drunk and admitted everything about the pounding he gave the "faggot" spent the day in jail and was released the next day pending trial. The states attorney didnt know if we could get a good conviction because he recanted his admission of guilt and they felt that they couldnt count on witnesses to come forward for me and asked if I would be Ok with them offering him a plea bargain instead of a full trial. I said NO till the day of the trial and when I could tell that the states attorney wasnt putting any effort into the case I finally said yes just so the bastard wouldnt get off scott free just because the court might see me as some kind of freak.
The result he got 24 months on probation and had to pay my medical bills. Not exactly justice in my book, but its all I could get.
now do you get it???
And dont tell me I did the right thing by not using the knife and just running away... I couldnt bring myself to risk taking a life but the only thing that saved me when I didnt save myself was pure luck in the form of an open elevator door.
Re: Black Transgender Not Allowed to Claim Self-Defense ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
InHouston
CeCe shouldn't have tripped out, and lunged and stabbed someone with a pair of scissors who didn't throw the bottle at her in the first place. That was stupid of her to do that, and is why she's in the hot water she is. Hell, they'll charge you with murder here in Texas for that too.
I don't know the law on this, but if a group of strangers is verbally assaulting you and someone in that mob throws a bottle, are you required by law to defend yourself ONLY against the person who threw the bottle??
BTW, compare CeCe's photo after the assault to what Zimmerman looked like.
http://media.citypages.com/cece-mcdo...7842021.40.jpg
She was attacked. It's not up for 'interpretation'.
Re: Black Transgender Not Allowed to Claim Self-Defense ...
DEFENSE, SELF-DEFENSE
A defense to certain criminal charges involving force (e.g. murder).
Use of force is justified when a person reasonably believes that it is necessary for the defense of oneself or another against the immediate use of unlawful force. However, a person must use no more force than appears reasonably necessary in the circumstances.
Force likely to cause death or great bodily harm is justified in self-defense only if a person reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm.
She was being threatened and that person was moving towards her in a "boxing" type stance... How much more clear does it have to be?
You are quite correct she was attacked, there is no interpreting this, she was under threat of great bodily harm and had actually just suffered bodily harm.
Re: Black Transgender Not Allowed to Claim Self-Defense ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TempestTS
This is going to be a long reply because I live in Minneapolis and have also been attacked by a drunk who nearly killed me.
Had she as well as her friends just been accosted and attacked YES
Was he with the group that attacked her YES
Was CeCe Tripping out... NO but the person she struck clearly was with traces of Meth, Coke, and varoius other substances in his blood, your telling me that puts you in a stable frame of mind???
Was he continuing to threaten and move towards her in an aggressive fashion YES (boxing stance motions while moving closer and verbal)
Did she have reason to fear for her personal and physical safety YES.
Did she freak out and run away - YES a short distance to a safer location and then flagged down a police car herself... not exactly the actions of someone who's intent was to kill.
Could it have been handled differently YES and of course it might be CeCe who might be dead in that case... nobody can say because thats the way it went down.
Murder is premeditated a planned taking of life done in advance, manslaughter is not premeditated but not a justifiable use of force and is intended to do others harm, self defense is striking out scared out of your wits that if you dont you will suffer bodily harm ( or more bodily harm )
self defense ... Next...
Would she be charged for murder in Texas... yeah probably... sorry but Texas isnt exactly known for lenient laws or for progressive understanding of racial and sexual orientation, not attempting to bash Texas here just speaking historically, things can and do change.
Sorry but this issue hits home for me as I live in Minneapolis and while I dont know CeCe I know the type of hostility that can materialize as a TS just walking down the street going by a bar with people hanging out front... It can get scary to the point where you have no idea whats going to happen next so its really hard to make the right call after being hit in the head with a bottle or brick and somebody is moving toward you acting like hes going into a middle weight bout and you still have blood streaming down your face from what happened two minutes ago...
chances are at that moment NOBODY is going to make their most clear headed decisions, you would react any way you think that will keep you from getting hurt or killed
I speak from experience, I was attacked by a drunken male who proceeded to smash a phone into my temple, then broke a bar stool over my shoulder and proceeded to beat me with a leg from the busted bar stool. I had a knife and pulled it out but couldnt bring myself to use it, he went into an angry rant standing over me and I made a mad lunge for the door and scrambled down the hall jumping into a (fortunately open) elevator and slamming the down button before the drunk could catch up staggering after me.
I suffered a fractured skull, fractured shoulder blade, multiple fractures on both forearms from when I covered my head to avoid getting hit in the head by the bar stool leg. The doctor was astonished it wasnt worse from the pounding I took and said I did the right thing covering up because if my head took the beating my arms took I would be dead. Now remember I was armed but didnt do anything, I just got lucky that the elevator door was wide open when I made a break to get out of there or he would have caught me and continued.
I called the cops, waited over half an hour scared shitless in a parking lot waiting for them to arrive before a friend of mine got there and drove me home, cops still hadnt shown, finally the next morning the came to my house and got my story and went and picked up the guy who was still drunk and admitted everything about the pounding he gave the "faggot" spent the day in jail and was released the next day pending trial. The states attorney didnt know if we could get a good conviction because he recanted his admission of guilt and they felt that they couldnt count on witnesses to come forward for me and asked if I would be Ok with them offering him a plea bargain instead of a full trial. I said NO till the day of the trial and when I could tell that the states attorney wasnt putting any effort into the case I finally said yes just so the bastard wouldnt get off scott free just because the court might see me as some kind of freak.
The result he got 24 months on probation and had to pay my medical bills. Not exactly justice in my book, but its all I could get.
now do you get it???
And dont tell me I did the right thing by not using the knife and just running away... I couldnt bring myself to risk taking a life but the only thing that saved me when I didnt save myself was pure luck in the form of an open elevator door.
That is a stunning post, Tempest, and with any justice the last word on this matter. Glad you made a full recovery, but what a commentary on the society we live in and its values. Thank you.
