17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?

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Originally Posted by Stavros

And who was President when your very own US of A through a covert operation was running drugs into the USA for the benefit of American users, in a decade that saw drug-related crimes go through the roof? Hmmmm, Ronald something, and I will give you a hint, it wasn't Ronald McDonald...

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Ronald (MOTH FUCKING) Reagan, and here you have THE CRACK EPIDEMIC!!!

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Originally Posted by Stavros

If you have decided in advance of it happening, that an intruder in your home is going to be killed, isn't that killing someone with 'malice aforethought' or 'pre-meditated murder' rather than self-defence?

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It is called contingency planning. You plan and train your response for possibilitys.

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Originally Posted by Stavros

If the intruder is breaking the law by illegally entering your property, and I assume that can mean breaking in through the kitchen or stepping on to your front lawn, why kill the intruder if you can disable him -or her- until the police arrive to make an arrest?

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You obviously didn't read the part about surrendering. You are also a bit of an idiot if you equate 'breaking in' to 'stepping on the lawn'.

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Originally Posted by Stavros

It is the lack of respect for human life that you exhibit which I find disturbing; there are many ways of arresting someone suspected of a crime, announcing in advance your intention to murder someone doesn't sound like self-defence to me. Would you replace a Beware of the Dog sign with a One More Step and You Are Dead?

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I am not a cop. I am not 'arresting a suspect', I am stopping a crime in progress. Big difference. Look it up.

As to 'lack or respect for human life', I argue that since you, the criminal, don't respect your own life, why should I? YOU made the choice when you attacked/invaded me or mine.

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Originally Posted by seanchai

Insomnia is related to paranoia.
I reckon there are a few people on this thread who don't sleep much.

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:dead::dead::dead: That's what Curtis Silva said, "ZIMMERMAN IN HIS PARANOID MIND"....

I understand where THEORYMAN IS coming from when he says "AND THEY WILL DIE".

For me if I am talking against anyone that is going to attack me and mines I will use words like "SELF DEFENSE, PROTECT ME AND MINES" because my INTENTIONS it to protect and try to defuse the situation not escalate it on any level and I want to be on the right end and don't want no one outside looking in saying my intent was to kill. Saying they will die is totally different from I will use self defense.

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Originally Posted by theoryman

It is called contingency planning. You plan and train your response for possibilitys.
You obviously didn't read the part about surrendering. You are also a bit of an idiot if you equate 'breaking in' to 'stepping on the lawn'.
I am not a cop. I am not 'arresting a suspect', I am stopping a crime in progress. Big difference. Look it up.
As to 'lack or respect for human life', I argue that since you, the criminal, don't respect your own life, why should I? YOU made the choice when you attacked/invaded me or mine.
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Contingency planning? I wonder where you live, you make it sound like Afghanistan or the tribal areas of Pakistan. I wonder if you walk around at 2am wearing night-vision goggles with an AK-47 over your shoulder. And you can't imagine some Texas dude who thinks anyone who walks on his lawn is a terrorist? And when I talk about the dignity of human life its you not the intruder who is in play, because if you are going to act the same way as a drug-drink-psychologically twisted freak does that make you any different? A spontaneous response to a sudden invasion is one thing, a calculated intention to kill, I suggest, is quite different, and that I find disturbing.

The big difference is I was not brought up in a culture where guns are normal, I have to accept that as part of the US even if I don't like it. Thing is, when I go to Canada, the culture is different again, and Canadians I know are appalled at what they read about what is happening just miles from where they live; and its not as if there is no crime in Canada, a point Michael Moore made in Bowling for Columbine.

Whooooooooooaaaaaaa!!!

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Originally Posted by jamesedwards

I understand where THEORYMAN IS coming from when he says "AND THEY WILL DIE".

For me if I am talking against anyone that is going to attack me and mines I will use words like "SELF DEFENSE, PROTECT ME AND MINES" because my INTENTIONS it to protect and try to defuse the situation not escalate it on any level and I want to be on the right end and don't want no one outside looking in saying my intent was to kill. Saying they will die is totally different from I will use self defense.

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Why does everybody seem to not see 'surrender on demand'?

IF YOU SURRENDER, I won't have to shoot. I don't want to shoot anybody.

But if it is a choice between me and/or what's mine or you... I don't know you and you will loose every time.

I may be a bit blunt, but I was taught that you don't carry a gun unless you are willing and able to use it. And you never point a gun at anything you are not willing to kill.

I'm not willing to risk me or mine for you. If you force me to shoot, I will shoot center-mass and will continue to fire until you are no longer a threat.

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Originally Posted by theoryman

Why does everybody seem to not see 'surrender on demand'?

IF YOU SURRENDER, I won't have to shoot. I don't want to shoot anybody.

But if it is a choice between me and/or what's mine or you... I don't know you and you will loose every time.

I may be a bit blunt, but I was taught that you don't carry a gun unless you are willing and able to use it. And you never point a gun at anything you are not willing to kill.

I'm not willing to risk me or mine for you. If you force me to shoot, I will shoot center-mass and will continue to fire until you are no longer a threat.

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What if they turn around and run away?

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Originally Posted by Stavros

Contingency planning? I wonder where you live, you make it sound like Afghanistan or the tribal areas of Pakistan.

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Southern, Lower Michigan.

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Originally Posted by Stavros

I wonder if you walk around at 2am wearing night-vision goggles with an AK-47 over your shoulder.

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Nope. No need. Most of my neighbors are armed and if any of us see someone sneaking around the fields, we go deal with it ourselves. Why waste the sheriffs time?

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Originally Posted by Stavros

And you can't imagine some Texas dude who thinks anyone who walks on his lawn is a terrorist?

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Maybe... But that is not me.

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Originally Posted by Stavros

And when I talk about the dignity of human life its you not the intruder who is in play, because if you are going to act the same way as a drug-drink-psychologically twisted freak does that make you any different?

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They made the choice. What part of personal responsibility don't you get? Don't attack me or mine and you have nothing to worry about.

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Originally Posted by Stavros

A spontaneous response to a sudden invasion is one thing, a calculated intention to kill, I suggest, is quite different, and that I find disturbing.

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A spontaneous response gets me killed. I'd prefer not to be killed... What part of 'surrender on demand' don't you get?

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Originally Posted by Stavros

The big difference is I was not brought up in a culture where guns are normal, I have to accept that as part of the US even if I don't like it. Thing is, when I go to Canada, the culture is different again,...

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And I read about the armed home invasions in Canada and more often in the UK and other parts of Europe where a gang breaks into a home while the owners are there and robbes and assaults them. And I can't understand how they just sit there and take it...

We don't have any real problem with home invasion in the US... Because the potential invaders know there is a good chance of getting killed...

It is a very different culture.

I have a friend in the UK... they put up with things over there that would start the Third American Revolution... TV licensing, gun laws, searches.
But as he says, there are things you colonials put up with that would have us in the streets... income taxes when not living in country, government telling us we can't travel to Cuba and so on...

When in Rome...

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Originally Posted by seanchai

What if they turn around and run away?

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Depends on the exact situation.

Outside and all you have done is property damage, no reason or need to shoot. I'm not a cop and have no interest in trying to catch you.

Inside my home, if you do not follow my directions exactly, I will likely see you as a threat and respond accordingly.

Past that... Deadly force can be used in defense of life and property and to prevent the commission of a felony and/or to apprehend the felon 'in the act'.

In general, I don't stick my nose into other peoples business.

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