17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?

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Originally Posted by zulusierra

I am against all state sponsored killing of it's citizens. I do not see execution as a legitimate use of force by the government.

I'm not sure removing protection from an individual (as in labeling them a legal "outlaw") is the same, philosophically speaking.

I haven't given it a huge amount of thought, though. Just found it an interesting concept.

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On that much we are entirely in agreement. Good man.

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Originally Posted by AmyDaly

That actually isn't true. He was asked to do it per statements of other residents of that community. I also don't see anything wrong with following and reporting suspicious activity. Especially since there was a huge string of break ins and robbery in the community. I've followed and reported drunk drivers before. They even tell us to report drunk drivers. There is no way to tell they are drunk other than suspicious driving actions. Am I a vigilante reporting drunk drivers? What if some drunk sees me reporting them and decides to hit me with their car? Guess its my fault for trying to do the right thing. S

ame thing goes with this. Some large kid you've ever seen before walking in the rain looking around at all the apartments. There is no evidence that says he chased him or initiated any contact. Only evidence that he was attacked. You can just as easily say trayvon turned around and approached zimmerman from behind, which is what is looking like what happened from all the actual evidence coming out.

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I feel like you're being willfully ignorant Amy. All the circumstantial evidence shows that Zimmerman got out on foot and CHASED after Trayvon. Listen to the entirety of Zimmerman's 911 call, when he says, 'he's (Trayvon) is running!'. At this point Zimmerman gets out of car on foot and chases after this kid.

This wasn't a LARGE kid. He's a stick.
http://i.imgur.com/5k9hg.jpg


Here's a mock diagram of the entire confrontation. Show me where Trayvon had the opportunity or time to double back and ambush Zimmerman?? That's bullshit. Again, from the diagram notice for how long Zimmerman was following Trayvon per the cell phone conversation with Martin's gf before he runs and psycho Zimmerman CHASES AFTER HIM.
What normal human being allows themselves to be stalked, chased, then respond in a calm manner after dark when an out of breath stranger starts questioning you??

Again, flip the colors, and Trayvon is an unarmed white kid named Terry and George is a self appointed Black neighborhood watch captain packing a concealed 9 mm who chases after this white kid after following him for three blocks in his SUV, claims the unarmed white kid carrying iced tea and skittles attacked him and was killed in self defense.
Would you still be buying this bullshit story from Zimmerman then.

Some of you need to try a little harder to be 'objective', because I would STILL be saying that white kid was murdered in cold blood by a psycho with a gun.


http://viewfromll2.files.wordpress.c...mmermanmap.png

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

Again, flip the colors, and Trayvon is an unarmed white kid named Terry and George is a self appointed Black neighborhood watch captain...this white kid ...white kid....

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I don't personally think that cultural heritage is relevant in this case, but if we are going to label people let's be accurate.

Zimmerman is a Latino with a Jewish last name.

What is your definition of what constitutes "whiteness" and "blackness"?

Melanin content?

Ancestry?

Cultural traditions?

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Originally Posted by zulusierra

I don't personally think that cultural heritage is relevant in this case, but if we are going to label people let's be accurate.

Zimmerman is a Latino with a Jewish last name.

What is your definition of what constitutes "whiteness" and "blackness"?

Melanin content?

Ancestry?

Cultural traditions?

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White Hispanic and Latino Americans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whatever. I think most are either consciously or unconsciously identifying with Zimmerman's whiteness. There are White latinos, I'm talking race primarily.

Put it this way, I doubt Zimmerman sees himself as hispanic, but that's pure speculation on my part.
I doubt Jimenez Garcia with a heavy Spanish accent would be the cause celeb on Faux News and other right wing news media outlets.

Or maybe it's vogue now in our society to smoke unarmed Black male teens in cold blood because statistically, you know, he's going to be a criminal at some point in the near future.smdh

Maybe the right wing and gun nuts are more obsessed with the victim and the manner used to kill him, and less about the shooter.

Exactly now I ask, how the hell did Trayvon and Zimmerman get from #3 to #5 as I have shown in my map also. Tray ran as Zimmerman said, and in order for Zimmerman to have shot Tray, Zimmerman had to go after him. Now Zimmerman claims he was attached on his left side from the back by Tray and Tray slammed his head on the concrete, that's a lie!!! How the hell they end up a 100 feet inside the complex? That doesn't add up, Zimmerman is lying. Zimmerman went after Tray, confronted Tray and as it was told Tray put on his hoodie to hide his identity as Zimmerman asked him "WHAT ARE YOU DOING AROUND HERE". How the hell do you talk like that to someone? See Zimmerman was feeling real gilly because he had a gun and he wanted a reason what he didn't know was Trayvon was going to bust his ass fist to fist, that punk bitch Zimmerman shot him and it was Zimmerman's fault this shit went down. I don't understand why peeps don't see it for what it is.

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

I feel like you're being willfully ignorant Amy. All the circumstantial evidence shows that Zimmerman got out on foot and CHASED after Trayvon. Listen to the entirety of Zimmerman's 911 call, when he says, 'he's (Trayvon) is running!'. At this point Zimmerman gets out of car on foot and chases after this kid.

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WRong, The word Zimmerman is either Polish or German, it is not of the Hebrew Israelite people, later named Jews, there are no "J's" in Hebrew, I studied those Semitic languages and Hamitic Languages also. The Caucasians you see in Israel are not the real Hebrews, they are convert Jews, and the Hebrews are a bloodline so you really can't convert into a bloodline. What they have done as Kharzars is take on the culture, languages and traditions along with the holy book and called it now their own. Trust me I have studied this and know the word Zimmerman is not a Jewish name. You couldn't even make that in Hebrew!!! the name Israel is really Y'srael, and Jesus real name in Hebrew is Ye'shua and Aramaic Issa and Arabic Isa, there are no J letters in the Hebrew nor Aramaic alphabet!!! The "J" letter wasn't introduced into the English alphabet until 1565, did you know that?

Now Zimmerman's mother is Afro Peruvian, meaning she has strong roots from Africa, so Zimmerman has African blood in his veins and I don't use the term black, it's a misnomer, the darkest person on this planet is not even black, that term was giving to us by Caucasians of the United States to classify us on a status, how do I know? because I worked in the legal system for years, and just check out your job application of why they ask WHAT RACE YOU ARE! Certain class of people get better benefits than others, now you can volunteer to put if you are so called black. It's about status because in your interview you're going be seen by the interviewer anyway so what's the purpose of putting down "I'M SO CALLED BLACK"? As I said before STATUS CLASSIFICATION IDENTITY PROCESSING.

So Zimmerman is Part Caucasian-Spaniard (White Hispanic) and African descent, and his mother happen to speak Spanish because of the Caucasian Spaniards that had those slaves and raped a lot of African people. The reason he looks the way he does is because he is the product of a mixture. To say he is just Hispanic is just absurd!!!

Melanin has nothing to do with white or black, Melanin is a protection screen from the UV rays that is in AFricans who where the first on this planet.

The term white is an identity status made up by Caucasians in the 1900's, before Caucasians came here they were called Christians!!! I have not see a Caucasian person ever in my life complexion the color of white, I mean like white snow!!!

So now you have the basis of these labels, just like all these got dam confusing labels they have for TGirls, like Trasexual Lesbian, like wtf, Transexual ain't enough? I can't even keep up with all that shit.

IN fact the cranium of the Africa, Asian and Caucasian are different in forensics, it is not the same. Also Melanin plays a big part, with out Melanin Caucasians have what is called recessive genes, this is why their pigment is pale for the lack of Melanin. with the lack of Melanin the body changes drastically, Dr. Francis Cress Welsing knows of this as the Albino stage.

I know my shit I have studied all this for years!!! and still studying so yeah, it's all have to do with Melanin, Ancestry, and the body. Cultural conditions Caucasians are definitely different than the African descent people.

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Originally Posted by zulusierra

I don't personally think that cultural heritage is relevant in this case, but if we are going to label people let's be accurate.

Zimmerman is a Latino with a Jewish last name.

What is your definition of what constitutes "whiteness" and "blackness"?

Melanin content?

Ancestry?

Cultural traditions?

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Originally Posted by jamesedwards

Exactly now I ask, how the hell did Trayvon and Zimmerman get from #3 to #5 as I have shown in my map also. Tray ran as Zimmerman said, and in order for Zimmerman to have shot Tray, Zimmerman had to go after him. Now Zimmerman claims he was attached on his left side from the back by Tray and Tray slammed his head on the concrete, that's a lie!!! How the hell they end up a 100 feet inside the complex? That doesn't add up, Zimmerman is lying. Zimmerman went after Tray, confronted Tray and as it was told Tray put on his hoodie to hide his identity as Zimmerman asked him "WHAT ARE YOU DOING AROUND HERE". How the hell do you talk like that to someone? See Zimmerman was feeling real gilly because he had a gun and he wanted a reason what he didn't know was Trayvon was going to bust his ass fist to fist, that punk bitch Zimmerman shot him and it was Zimmerman's fault this shit went down. I don't understand why peeps don't see it for what it is.

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With respect, the part that's being left out is time. Not the fault of anybody here, since the media has done a horrible job of reporting. They have done a terrible job on the who-what-when-where-why. Especially on the 'when' part.

If one listens to the recorded calls, ZImmerman's call to 911 as well as all the calls from his neighbors, at least one of which includes the screaming/fighting and the shot, one gets a much better idea of the time involved. Trayvon's call with his gf was not recorded on audio. We know when it happened, but it wasn't recorded.

The partial truth is that Zimmerman did start running after Trayvon. The rest of that partial truth is that Zimmerman stopped running after him when the dispatcher said 'we don't need you to do that'. Listen to the entire call by Zimmerman. You can hear him out of breath when the 911 dispatcher asked if he was running after Trayvon, but you also hear he gets his breath back long before the end of the call. There is no reason to think he kept running after the dispatcher suggested/ordered him to stop.

Approximately 5 minutes passed between the time Zimmerman says he lost sight of Trayvon and the time of the shot. That's a lot of time. Trayvon's body was found only 70 yards/meters from his home. It makes Zimmerman's version of Trayvon backtracking on him very possible.

jamesedwards, if you listen to Zimmerman's call you can hear that Zimmerman lost sight of Trayvon. He's on the phone with 911 for about 3 minutes after he lost sight of him. It wasn't the kind of 'hot pursuit' that some have tried to make it seem.

How are you Queens Guy?

Ok, 1. you said Tray's girlfriend wasn't recorded? Not true, The Martin's personal attorney has a phone log. Not an audio because it's a cell phone, but once the chip is looked into by computer forensics you are able to pull up everything from that chip. So there is a recording, here's the Proof

http://youtu.be/ah1V8phm1gw <<<< Youtube video with the Girlfriends records.

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Originally Posted by Queens Guy

With respect, the part that's being left out is time. Not the fault of anybody here, since the media has done a horrible job of reporting. They have done a terrible job on the who-what-when-where-why. Especially on the 'when' part.

If one listens to the recorded calls, ZImmerman's call to 911 as well as all the calls from his neighbors, at least one of which includes the screaming/fighting and the shot, one gets a much better idea of the time involved. Trayvon's call with his gf was not recorded on audio. We know when it happened, but it wasn't recorded.

The partial truth is that Zimmerman did start running after Trayvon. The rest of that partial truth is that Zimmerman stopped running after him when the dispatcher said 'we don't need you to do that'. Listen to the entire call by Zimmerman. You can hear him out of breath when the 911 dispatcher asked if he was running after Trayvon, but you also hear he gets his breath back long before the end of the call. There is no reason to think he kept running after the dispatcher suggested/ordered him to stop.

Approximately 5 minutes passed between the time Zimmerman says he lost sight of Trayvon and the time of the shot. That's a lot of time. Trayvon's body was found only 70 yards/meters from his home. It makes Zimmerman's version of Trayvon backtracking on him very possible.

jamesedwards, if you listen to Zimmerman's call you can hear that Zimmerman lost sight of Trayvon. He's on the phone with 911 for about 3 minutes after he lost sight of him. It wasn't the kind of 'hot pursuit' that some have tried to make it seem.

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Queens Guy I have heard the tapes, over and over, I worked in the legal field for years, I know what's up, Zimmerman even knocked on someone's door when he went after Trayvon did you know that? Also there was a pop before the gunshot showing when Zimmerman and Trayvon got into the scuffle someone was standing outside at their door and when they started fighting the door slams then you hear the gun go off.

Now if you're telling me Trayvon doubled back, in my humble expression I can't buy that. Zimmerman got off the phone and he could of ran again, you wouldn't know and then caught up to Trayvon. Remember in order for Trayvon to double back to THE SUV AS ZIMMERMAN CLAIMS they would of ended up on the side walk outside of the short cut not where Tray was killed. Zimmerman said Trayvon came up behind him while he was at his SUV, that's the key, where was the Suv? On the street used to drive from the front gate of the complex, not the grassy area where Trayvon died.

If you tell me Tray was 70 yards from his house it makes no sense since he was scared to double back. I would take my chances getting home.

Now phone records show Tray was on the phone with his girlfriend, his girlfriend said Tray told her a man was following him, what should he do? That doesn't sound like a teen trying to double back he is trying to get away, she told him to walk he wanted to run, but Zimmerman had now caught up to him and she said she heard a man ask Tray "WHAT ARE YOU DOING AROUND HERE" Did you hear her give testimony?

http://youtu.be/3jhes6BlFf8 <<<<< Youtube.

So is anyone listening to her statements? The phone logs prove to be accurate!!! So is she not a credible witness? If this is so, how did Zimmerman end up close to Tray if he stopped and went back to his Suv? Don't sound like Zimmerman was at his SUV but Trayvon was CORNERED by Zimmerman. News reporter "911 SAID NOT TO FOLLOW TRAYVON MARTIN,-- 'HE DID ANYWAY'..." So in reality Zimmerman went after Trayvon.