17yr old black kid shot and killed for walking in white suburbia?

Trisha... will it ever change? I was surfing a few US talk radio channels on my Ipad recently and there was so much stuff about the right to bear arms - concealed weapons and all. Raise that issue here and some of the seemingly most relaxed semi liberal folk spring to the defence of the gun people. The NRA is such a powerful lobby it would electoral suicide for anyone to take them on. I think it is intractable.

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Originally Posted by martin48

From this side of the pond, I fear you are a lone voice - someone prove me otherwise.

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You know Trish, I find it quite ironic that you support and promote the very thing the murderous villains in our society would relish and take full advantage of. Taking guns from law-abiding citizens just gives criminals Carte Blanche access to you any time they want, with no way to defend yourself. I’ve been on this earth for over 40 years. I’ve worked hard all my life, I’m an Atheist and therefore fully understand and appreciate my mortality. With all that, some little 18 year old brat-thug who has the IQ of a carrot dipped in shit is not going to pump me full of bullets for my wallet. All you need do is read the crime section of papers around the nation. It goes on all day and all night. And can happen to anyone anytime.

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Originally Posted by Prospero

Trisha... will it ever change? I was surfing a few US talk radio channels on my Ipad recently and there was so much stuff about the right to bear arms - concealed weapons and all. Raise that issue here and some of the seemingly most relaxed semi liberal folk spring to the defence of the gun people. The NRA is such a powerful lobby it would electoral suicide for anyone to take them on. I think it is intractable.

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No it's never going to change. The right to bear arms is the law of the land. You take that right away, not only will the criminals take over, but so will the government.

The right to bear arms even deterred a land invasion here by Japan in WWII. They were planning it, and a general shot the idea down quoting, "If we attempt a land invasion, Americans will pop up from behind every blade of grass with a gun." They scrapped the idea, and we didn't have to fire a single shot to stop the plan.

From Thomas Jefferson, “A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.”

Seanchai, Jesse J., and Sharpton ain't gonna like this.

MIAMI – Court records show George Zimmerman had a pair of black eyes, a nose fracture and two cuts to the back of his head after the fatal shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.
The medical records were part of evidence released Tuesday that prosecutors have in the second-degree murder case against Zimmerman. He has entered a plea of not guilty and claims self-defense in the Feb. 26 shooting. A message left Tuesday evening with Zimmerman's attorney was not immediately returned.
Zimmerman was treated Feb. 27 at Altamonte Family Practice. A phone call made Tuesday evening to the practice rang unanswered.
ABC News first reported Zimmerman's injuries from the medical records. Some of the injuries were previously reported by The Associated Press based on video of Zimmerman at a jail sally port.
Zimmerman, 28, is free on $150,000 bail and living in an undisclosed location. He has pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder charges that were only filed after the governor appointed a special prosecutor to investigate the slaying in the central Florida city of Sanford. The case has become a national racial flashpoint because the Martin family and supporters contend Zimmerman singled Martin out because he was black.
It has also sparked renewed debate over "stand your ground" laws pushed by the National Rifle Association. While backers say such laws protect innocent lives, detractors contend they can become a virtual license to kill and are prone to misuse by criminals and misinterpretation by judges.
Zimmerman, who faces a potential life sentence if convicted, said he only fired his handgun because Martin attacked him. If Zimmerman prevails on his self-defense claim, a judge could dismiss the case before trial.

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Originally Posted by yourdaddy

Seanchai, Jesse J., and Sharpton ain't gonna like this.

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Doesn't matter one way or another to me. As I've stated before, my reason for posting was so it got attention, which it did - and and investigation was opened.
The only thing that really disturbs me is the racist attitudes of you and a few others who will continue to argue that it was right for Zimmerman to kill a young person and the laws and culture which have allowed it.

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Originally Posted by InHouston

You know Trish, I find it quite ironic that you support and promote the very thing the murderous villains in our society would relish and take full advantage of. Taking guns from law-abiding citizens just gives criminals Carte Blanche access to you any time they want, with no way to defend yourself.

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I said, “More guns on the streets or in the home do not make the streets or the home safer.” So where did I say we should take guns away. Stop misrepresenting the arguments of others. Start listening and addressing the points others make.

I said, “You fear for your life and personal safety just because someone's crawling through your window?? For trespass you want to kill them? How cowardly is that? If I were on the jury, I would want to see real evidence that you feared for your life.” Others have reiterated this question. Do you really think homicide is a justifiable response to trespass?

If you think my position is ironic given my circumstances, then judge my position with respect to the reasons I give for it, namely:

“One obvious objection against the current rash of castle and stand-your-ground laws is they legalize justifiable homicide but forgo the formal presentation of a justification. We just take the perp’s word for it.

The second objection is what counts for a justification, namely “fear for one’s life or personal safety.” Is that really a justification? A lot a people’s fears are simply irrational. In my mind, the only possible justification for homicide is a rational assessment that the continuance of your life depends decidedly on the termination of the other’s life; i.e. if the state can prove that there were rational choices open to the perp that would have avoided the death of the victim, then the homicide was not justifiable.”

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Originally Posted by InHouston

I’ve been on this earth for over 40 years. I’ve worked hard all my life, I’m an Atheist and therefore fully understand and appreciate my mortality. With all that, some little 18 year old brat-thug who has the IQ of a carrot dipped in shit is not going to pump me full of bullets for my wallet. All you need do is read the crime section of papers around the nation. It goes on all day and all night. And can happen to anyone anytime.

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Give the kid the fucking wallet. You think you’ve had a tougher life, been in tighter situations and worked harder then a transgender woman, one time escort with a graduate education? It doesn’t matter who’s tough and who’s not. It matter of being able to appropriately assess a developing situation and handle it with humane, firm, rational and proportionate resolve. Stalking unarmed kids and shooting them, or sitting with a rifle in wait for a couple of aluminum-can thieves are disproportionate, homicidal responses symptomatic of a mental condition that should disqualify the would be shooters from owning a gun.

Zimmerman was also taking Adderall and Temazepam. I can't wait to hear Zimmerman's attorney argue in open court that his client's 'legitimate' use of adderall didn't make him more prone to acting out irrationally.

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Originally Posted by natina

you are not allowed to used deadly force to defend property in calif

if some one steals from you then runs you can not use deadly force to stop them.

you can only use deadly force to stop a fleeing felon in calif

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Natina, those kids stealing cans may have been fleeing felons. I'm in NYC and I don't know California law, I'm going form my understanding of NY State law. They were more than trespassers if they broke into a building and started to steal things, even though those cans were only worth 5-cents each. Trespassing and then stealing makes the crime Burglary, which is a felony.

If the business owner told the kids to stop and wait for the police to arrive, but the kids started to run away so they wouldn't get arrested, then they were fleeing felons.

I don't think it's right to shoot them in that instance, and I wouldn't shoot them. But, it might be legal.

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Originally Posted by giovanni_hotel

Zimmerman was also taking Adderall and Temazepam.

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Maybe he didn't want to go to the Hospital because they'd take a blood test. Who knows what they'd find.