Six million Jews

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Originally Posted by Dahlia Babe Ailhad

I really hurts how i was called an anti-Semite. I have said nothing against Jewish people as a race or the religion they follow. And moderators should do their part to remove such false accusations. However, anything goes in this area of the board, it seems.

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Dahlia's view on censorship. Keep the Holocaust denial but erase any trace of someone calling it that. Keep the anti-semitism but don't allow anyone to say that's what it is. What a web of hypocrisy and convoluted logic you spin. The only person who has accused anyone of anything without evidence in this thread is you. Here's a person who can be told her perception of what is happening is wrong by more than a half dozen people and still think she's right.

Ciao Bron-cofa,

Now, i-a make-a you a-nice-a paisano. eh.

All joking aside.
Could you enlighten me and the forum, in your opinion, as to why all throughout history, the Jewish people were persecuted so darned much?
Why?
I honestly, never thought about his before.
Seeing as i have earned your undivided attention, i would greatly appreciate your or any other Jewish person's view on that question.


Thanks

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Originally Posted by Dahlia Babe Ailhad

Ciao Bron-cofa,

Now, i-a make-a you a-nice-a paisano. eh.

All joking aside.
Could you enlighten me and the forum, in your opinion, as to why all throughout history, the Jewish people were persecuted so darned much?
Why?

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This is a history question...my knowledge of world history is not great. I have read about the Holocaust and about the Armenian genocide but beyond these events I can't speak to the cultural or religious pressures that led to anti-semitism. I would guess there are both Jewish and non-Jewish people who can provide a better answer than I can.

As you have pointed out elsewhere, other discrete groups of people have been persecuted as well and the reasons for such persecution are various and context dependent. The blame for such persecution always lies with the persecutor or it would not be a good name for what is being described.

Originally Posted by Dahlia Babe Ailhad http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/ima...s/viewpost.gif Hi everybody,
I truly believe that all western humans are vile and that is, in large part, because of the obsession with religious dogma - who is right or wrong?...who should live or die?...who deserves a country or who should be removed from their homeland and WHY?....who burns people alive?...who plans to bring down skyscrapers?...who is an anti-Semite and who is not?...who is informed and who is stupid, ignorant, or simply naïve?...and most of all, who chooses to close their eyes to it all to protect a "system of beliefs" called, lies - and that goes for ANY system of beliefs that exist within any branch human knowledge


Dahlia, your gloomy view of the human race does not sit well with historical fact, even in the case of the Third Reich. At the same time that the Nazis and their friends were rounding up the European Jews and sending them to their death, other Europeans were doing what they could to save them - Raoul Wallenberg, as Sweden's special envoy in Budapest saved thousands of Jews by issuing them with travel documents; Nicolas Winton organised the kindertransport which brought 669 Jewish children from Czechoslovakia to the UK; an underground network of Protestants in the industrial north-west of Germany put their own lives at risk by taking in Jews in their homes, or in safe houses -all of the above actions being motivated by common humanity and in the case of the Germans, by religious duty.

Martin Luther King was a Christian minister, it was his own 'Christian dogma' that formed a large part of his moral argument for Civil Rights, a struggle that to some extent he led to victory.

Give it some thought -the advances in medicine that have lessened pain and prolonged life; the inventions that make cooking and travelling cheaper and more efficient than it once was; the books, the films and the music that give us joy.

As humans, we aren't all as bad as you think.

Stav,

That is MY opinion, period. I think the things i think based on what i see, on the whole.

Yes, there are always saints and helpers to those who need help. There are good people in the west, of course.
They are not the WHOLE of the Western world - they are only a few in the big picture of DEATH and GREED.

When i said "all humans in the western world", i meant the ones in POWER of the views of their society.

People pass by a guy laying half-dead dying in the subway or on the street because we are so used to seeing homeless drunks sleeping on teh street or in subways that we can no longer tell if the guy is half-dead or just seeping of the alcohol.

I hope what i wrote, here, has clarified my previous comment.

You are very picky, you, and i should really be a little more exact with my choice of words.

Thanks for pointing that out - but i think what i meant was a given. Maybe i am mistaken about it being obvious what i had meant when i said "all of the Western word".

Medicines, i am highly against. That is GREED at work, fundamentally.

Dahlia, have you ever listened to yourself?

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Originally Posted by Dahlia Babe Ailhad

So, again, whatever "happened" in Europe - happened.
I will not, can not, say what had happened over there, because i was not there when it, whatever "it" might be, happened.
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I do not know WHAT to believe anymore.
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I've seen proofs which clearly point at facts
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I really don't need any one lecturing me on what i watch or believe in.
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It's come to the point that in our modern world, the word, anti-Semite, is thrown around more than baseballs or footballs are thrown around.
It is, as if, it has become a tool to stop any intellectual, intelligent conversations from taking place and/or opinions from being expressed.
Clear examples of this, what i would call a "crime", are very visible within this very thread.
It's like being bullied, and no one is allowed to stop it.
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Do i like modern Jewish people?...yes, i do. Always have.
It's just too bad some of them consider any non-Jewish people to be socially below worthless animals.
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Can any one REALLY say who is a human or is not a human on our planet?

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The subject is the Jewish people in Europe during the first half of the twentieth century and you’re telling us you don’t know and we can’t know––at least on the grand scale––what happened there. You tell us in one breath that you don’t know what to believe and in the same breath you tell us you’ve seen proofs and that you know facts the rest of us deliberately ignore. What those facts are, you are telling...no matter how many times you’ve been asked. You know these things because you’ve researched the internet and watched YouTube videos. In the next breath you bemoan how easily misinformation can be passed off as truth in the instant information age. You don’t know what to believe, but you don’t need anyone suggesting what you might read or watch. Yet you have plenty of suggestions for what we should watch and discuss. You think you’re being bullied because we actively engage and criticize your posts. We ask you to respond with what you think in your own words. But no, you actually accused us of trying to trick you into saying something you don’t believe. I hate to inform of this, but Babe, you’re paranoid delusional. You think contributors here should be warned, censored, removed or banned because they find your alleged ignorance and your use of anti-semitic tropes and anti-semitic materials anti-semitic?! To top it off you ask, “Can anyone REALLY say who is a human or is not a human on our planet? WTF? You’re not racist, but apparently in your head it’s a real possibly that some of us aren’t human. Thank the stars you’re deciding who is who isn’t on the basis of YouTube videos and not race.

Well said Trish.

Dahlia, you claim to have spoken to a Polish friend who had a relative in a concentration camp and yet you choose to believe you tube clips over someone who has actually been through the experience and you are still "confused".

When I started reading through this thread I thought you were just naive, now I think you either enjoy making provocative posts and then playing the "martyr" or that Broncofan was right about you all along.

In the words of Sir Walter Scott - "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!"

In this case, Dahlia, the only person you are deceiving is yourself.

I've ALREADY addressed this.

Are you, also, a Jewish person? There Jewish people in Scotland, also.

And Bronco is TOTALLY wrong about me. AND so is anyone who wants to try to stop me from asking questions by calling me an anti-Semite or Holocaust Denier.
That is just so BELOW the belt, it's disgusting.

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Originally Posted by trish

Dahlia, have you ever listened to yourself?



The subject is the Jewish people in Europe during the first half of the twentieth century and you’re telling us you don’t know and we can’t know––at least on the grand scale––what happened there. You tell us in one breath that you don’t know what to believe and in the same breath you tell us you’ve seen proofs and that you know facts the rest of us deliberately ignore. What those facts are, you are telling...no matter how many times you’ve been asked. You know these things because you’ve researched the internet and watched YouTube videos. In the next breath you bemoan how easily misinformation can be passed off as truth in the instant information age. You don’t know what to believe, but you don’t need anyone suggesting what you might read or watch. Yet you have plenty of suggestions for what we should watch and discuss. You think you’re being bullied because we actively engage and criticize your posts. We ask you to respond with what you think in your own words. But no, you actually accused us of trying to trick you into saying something you don’t believe. I hate to inform of this, but Babe, you’re paranoid delusional. You think contributors here should be warned, censored, removed or banned because they find your alleged ignorance and your use of anti-semitic tropes and anti-semitic materials anti-semitic?! To top it off you ask, “Can anyone REALLY say who is a human or is not a human on our planet? WTF? You’re not racist, but apparently in your head it’s a real possibly that some of us aren’t human. Thank the stars you’re deciding who is who isn’t on the basis of YouTube videos and not race.

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I've address this already,too.

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Originally Posted by Dahlia Babe Ailhad

I've ALREADY addressed this.

Are you, also, a Jewish person? There Jewish people in Scotland, also.

And Bronco is TOTALLY wrong about me. AND so is anyone who wants to try to stop me from asking questions by calling me an anti-Semite or Holocaust Denier.
That is just so BELOW the belt, it's disgusting.

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No, I'm not Jewish. Strangely, it's not compulsory to be Jewish in order to be disgusted by what happened to the Jews (and other ethnic groups) during the Holocaust.

Nobody is stopping you from asking questions but as you refuse to listen to the answers given in this thread it makes me wonder just what "opinion" you are waiting to hear.

You claim that you want to find knowledge and be educated but you ignore Trish, Broncofan and others who have tried to do exactly that.

What will it take for you to realise that by continuing to promote the articles and videos that you link to, you will be associated with the appalling views and opinions contained within them, regardless of whether you believe them or not?

You can't remain neutral and "confused" forever. In fact simply by stating that you're confused implies that you do have opinions otherwise your mind would be blank. In Scottish law there is a saying, "ignorance is no defence" and after the discussion on this thread you can't even claim to be ignorant anymore. I've certainly learnt a lot from this thread.

As you are so fond of your little experiments, have you asked your Polish friend their opinion on the videos and links you've posted? I'd love to hear what they have to say.