Heres the link:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051118/.../congress_iraq
The last part about the guy who got crippled by friendly fire and then denied a purple heart made me angry :x
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Heres the link:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051118/.../congress_iraq
The last part about the guy who got crippled by friendly fire and then denied a purple heart made me angry :x
"I like guys who've never been there that criticize us who've been there," said Murtha, a former Marine. "I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and send people to war, and then don't like to hear suggestions about what needs to be done."
I agree with him on that and much of what he said,the guy whose two hands were blown off by freindly fire deserves the purple heart or some kind of medal.You have to give it up for him saying he would give that guy one of his medals.Bush should listen to this guy he knows war!
How will he pin his purple heart on to his chest without hands?
I hope they give him enough of a disability pension to be able to get someone to do it for him!
seanchai
Rumor has that while shrubya is at the summit meeting in South Korea, he plans on crossing the border and defecting to North Korea. Keep your fingers crossed.
I actually met Murtha when I was in 5th grade. I dont remember much about it, but I do know that we were in the Gulf War at the time and I wanna say he was heading over or just got back from visiting over there.
Murtha makes two people in the world really happy when he says that. Al Zarqawi, and chefmike. How's your Arabic Mike? They could use another suicide bomber or two.
A CNN USA Today Gallup Poll this week had 60 per cent of people saying it was not worth going to war.Quote:
Originally Posted by yourdaddy
60 per cent of 250 million is a lot more than 2.
FK
John Mutha is a decorated war hero from Vietnam. His word means more that Mr. Chaney who had several deferments not to serve, our country.
I am a Gulf Vet, last tour in Afgahn, and they really do not have a true plan in Iraq.
I am very proud of my 6 1/2 years in. What do we get in return. I'll tell you what, here in NYC they are planning to close the biggest Veterans Hospital in the area that serves the bigest population. For those in NY, it is the one on 23rd and 1st Ave.
Why you ask? Because it is too expensive, too many people are coming back from the war needing treatment. So we get a thanks for serving but sorry we can't help you. We will have to travel further to get the services we need. In essence they want to discourage us from using the VA.
So I say they need a better plan and schedule to begin to bring my brother home. I agree we need to be aggrissive to stop terrorist, but that is not what we are doing in Iraq at this time.
Well said....we are definitely creating more terrorists in Iraq, though. And CNN had some coverage about our Afghanistan fiasco, terrorist activity on the rise, 70% of the world's heroin comes from there, and we are collaborating with drug lords the same way that the CIA did in Vietnam. We have 17,000 in Afghanistan with 90 soldiers killed so far this year alone.
Is that the big red brick one, Harbor Healthcare Center or something like that? I thought NYU more or less paid all the bills there, can't believe they would close it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOATER
this one is for bush isyourdaddy...
and let's not forget what happened to tricky dick...deja vu...
I have problems with Bush's politics on the Iraq War, though I am with Bush on not pulling out of Iraq too early.
His rhetoretic of "we fight terrorists abroad, so we do not have to fight them here". I have two problems with that statement, don't say that to our friends in England or Spain and he boast that he foiled at least 10 plots in America (which means they are here already and planning or he is making up stories to make America feel safe). BTW, when are we going to strengthen our borders and cargo?
He does not want to pullout (I agree somewhat) and does not want a timetable (I agree somewhat). No one plans to fail, just they fail to plan (sums up the Bush Administration, IMHO). I think they should have benchmarks that we should achieve before reducing the troops. He used to boast about the Iraqi security being over 100,000+ and growing according to his rhetoretic, yet we only withdrawn a couple 10,000 troops since the beginning of the war.
Just my two cents.
Yes that is the one. The VA is affiliated with Bellvue and NYU. Many doctors rotate between the 3. It has been a good network that helps Veterans get the best care available. but the VA is founded by government.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishman33
Murtha is live on CNN right now tearing the chimp a new asshole.
Oh man, he shredded shrubya on the speach monkeyboy gave earlier today. I particularly like how he pointed out the difference between insurgency and terrorism for the repugs who don't know the difference.
I'm waiting for the Bush Family Evil Empire to launch some "swift-boat-vet" style lies against John Murtha, just as they did with John Kerry.
personally, I hope to hell they don't. Not only was Murtha a fellow Marine(similar MOS infact), he never spoke out against the war while his fellows were still over there fighting it- and he deserves better. I really hate how politics tear apart veteran kinship in that way. And don't take that as a slap at Kerry. I refuse to pick sides in that little quarrel, just saying I think a little more highly of Murtha as a person than I do Kerry.Quote:
Originally Posted by chefmike
On Murhta's views, I think he still carries some of the bitterness of the pointlessness of Vietnam and the reception the veterans got on their return and he doesn't want the same thing happening to today's soldiers. I can see where he is comming from, but I don't think this compares to Vietnam in the slightest. We're talking 50,000 casualties versus 2,000 here. And not too shock you guys too much, initial estimates in the service were more than 2000 losses in the first year. I'm not going to debate or support Bush's motives, but the majority of Iraqis are much better off now, and they will tell that to you themselves. And anyone who has heard any of the testimony/accusations against Saddam has to realize the world is a better place without that maniac in charge of anything.
Besides, pulling out now only guarntees that those 2,000 died for nothing. Maybe the long run will prove that to be anyway, I don't now. But pulling out now would be just plain dumb.
just my $0.02
Johm Murtha has gone senile.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yourdaddy
Its "john" typical bush ass kisser spelling.
Yes, without getting into the opinions on why shrubya got us into Iraq, I agree saddam is an evil person (as are numerous other tyrants around the world). You can't argue with that. But Murtha is doing the nation a service in reminding us that we entered the war with no practical plan for it's finish, and also bringing up the point that a great many Americans feel that we have a far greater mess on our hands than anyone ever imagined. And we have created a rallying point for Muslim fanatics around the world. And I hate that over 2,000 good citizens (and perhaps up to 100,000 Iraqui civilians) have died thus far...but many of us believe that any further deaths will also be in vain.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishman33
Gen. John P. Abizaid, the senior commander in the Middle East, stated that they need more troops to secure the borders of Iraq to minimize the flow of foreign insurgents, but Bush rejected the notion for more troops. General Shinseki briefed Rumsfeld that "he can't win this war, if they insist on invading Iraq, he can't win this war with less than 300,000 soldiers." Rumsfeld reportedly ordered Shinseki to go back and find a way to do this with 125,000 to 130,000, but Shinseki came back and said they couldn't do the job with that number. "What did Rumsfeld do?" Karpinski asked rhetorically. "If you can't agree with me, I'm going to find somebody who can. He made Shinseki a lame duck, for all practical purposes, and brought in Schoomaker. And Schoomaker got it. He said, 'Oh yes sir, we can do this with 125,000.'"
Bush: No More Troops For Iraq
Now Democrats ask for reducing troops and he rejects the notion. He rejects timetable, while he said the oppose during his 2000 campaign issue. Asked Clinton to have an exit strategy and timetable for Kosovo. Sounds like he is continuing to play both sides. Sounds like a flip flopper.
I am starting to get sick of listening to Bush about rebuilding Iraq, when he should be talking about rebuilding New Orleans, if it is feasible. I am sick of listening to Bush talk about Iraq freedom, while he continues to deny U.S. basic freedoms to a U.S. Citizen (right to see his lawyer and right to a speedy trial - took 3 years to make an indict him and never mentioned anything about Al Qaeda or dirty bomb in the indictment), Jose Padilla, while he goes after the Adult Industry, while he wants to continue sneak and peek search warrant without notice or showing of probable cause, while he voids out the Geneva Convention, says America does not torture, yet threats a veto on McCain's bill on torture. Where are his priorities? They continue to sound like he cares more about Iraq than the American people that elected him.
Personally, I hope that they reduce the number of troops in Iraq gradually, since Iraqi forces are over 200,000 now. If they have a problem with their development of Iraq security forces, he should state the issue instead of continuing to deny with no explanation why we don't need to withdrawl troops or increase the number of troops. With the reduction of troops, they should use the same number of troops to hunt down the top Al Qaeda leadership, especially Osama Bin Laden. I continue to see the clip of him telling New Yorkers that the build that knocked down these building, we hear from us. Four years later I am still waiting to see some action. :lol:
It's like you guys are hoping against hope, that Al Qaeda will win in Iraq, so you can say I told you so. With the Shiite Iranians on one side, and the Sunni Syrians on the other, and the rest of the world against them, it was just a matter of time before that country went into total civil war. A vacuum would have formed there, just like in Somalia. Give it a chance for the elections to happen. Live with it boys.....W ain't a quitter, like Slick Willie. 2 more years, 2 more years, 2 more years.
The national media focuses on polls and the rising deaths toll in Iraq.
Let's focus on the other Iraq news:
Growing GDP is good for those with access to the twin golden rivers flowing through Iraq—not the Tigris and Euphrates, but oil revenue and foreign aid. The rest of the economy is, on the whole, weak. Unemployment remains in the 30 to 40 percent range, and the psychologically most critical type of infrastructure—electricity—has barely improved since Saddam Hussein fell. Iraqi security forces are getting better, but they are also losing more than 200 men a month to the insurgency. Civilian casualties in Iraq from the war are as high as ever; combine that with the region's highest crime rates, and Iraq has clearly become a much more violent society since Hussein fell. Tactically, the resistance appears to be outmaneuvering the best military in the world in its use of improvised explosive devices. And politically, every move forward toward greater Sunni Arab participation in the political process seems to be accompanied by at least one step back.
CNN (Communist News Network)Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicia Katt
Lies? John Kerry is a pussy. Just look at him. He shot a gook in the back, and then whined for the rest of his life about the war.Quote:
Originally Posted by chefmike
I have a Vietnamese friend who immigrated from Vietnam during the war and he said, "America could have easily won that war. America just didn't want it bad enough." He also said, "In my country, we kill the enemy. We kill all of them. That's how you win."
faux news...we distort, you decide
John Kerry, like John Murtha, is a decorated veteran who served his country in a time of war. shrubya, cheney, limbaugh, rove, wolfowitz et al are chickenhawks....aka draft-dodging war-mongers...
I do hope we can come out of this with a victory and with a little US military loss as possible. I am against peole like Howard Dean saying we can not win. It's his honest opinion but as a Veteran, myself, it is not good for your moral as a soldier when you don't have support of the people that sent you.Quote:
Originally Posted by yourdaddy
I am far a Dubya fan. But he had the right intentions in acting to Iraq. He really believes it's the right thing to do. Unfortunately he is faily clueless, and was used by Cheney in making many decisions. Cheney has push his agenda through Bush. And Bush thinks it's his idea.
Did we go there for right reasons? I say Yes. Do we have a good and affective stratagy? NO. Will Iraq be better off after this? 10 years from now, we will say wow what a waste, when it is apparent that Iran has established its policy in Iraq.
Senile is when you lose your senses, not come to them. Its so typical of you Republicans to turn so quickly on someone when that person does something you will never do; admit to a mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by yourdaddy
The entire war has been a horrible mistake. Its time for Bush and Cheney and the entire neocon movement to admit that, stop trying to save face, and start trying to save lives.
FK
The question isn't whether we went there for the right reasons. Its whether we went there for the reasons we were told were the right reasons. We didn't. We were mislead into this war for all the wrong reasons and nothing can retroactively rationalize what we are doing there now. We are continuing to be mislead. Bush's recent speech tried to blame all the present problems with rebuilding Iraq on Saddam, ignoring that we destroyed that country. We burnt their house to roast the pig, trying to save our own bacon.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOATER
FK
This was clearly a war of choice, now we know it was a bad choice to go gangbusters into Iraq and expend capital and lives for what.....no WMD, no capturing hearts and minds, no OIL (ironic isn't it that we don't even get good oil from iraq), etc
Bush has no conscience...even LBJ knew he had lied and done many things wrong and didnt run for that reason. Bush should resign but we know unless the Dems get the house back there will be no investigation that will bring out the truth on how much they lied...
Now we torture....This president has found a way to hit bottom and find a way to go further down,....this presidency has been a travesty for all of us
Situation In Iraq Is Civil War
by Rep. John Murtha 01/12/2006
According to the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, Second Edition, the definition of a civil war is a "war between political factions or regions within the same country." That is exactly what is going on in Iraq, not a global war on terrorism, as the President continues to portray it.
93 percent of those fighting in Iraq are Iraqis. A very small percentage of the fighting is being done by foreign fighters. Our troops are caught in between the fighting. 80 percent of Iraqis want us out of there and 45 percent think it is justified to kill American troops.
Iraqis went to the polls in droves on December 15th and rejected the secular, pro-democracy candidates and those who the Administration in Washington propped up. Preliminary vote results indicate that Iyad Allawi, the pro-American Prime Minister, received about 8 percent of the vote and Ahmad Chalabi, Iraq's current Oil Minister and close associate of the U.S. Iraq war planners, received less than 1 percent. According to General Vines, the top operational commander in Iraq, "the vote is reported to be primarily along sectarian lines, which is not particularly heartening." The new government he said "must be a government by and for Iraqis, not sects."
The ethnic and religious strife in Iraq has been going on, not for decades or centuries, but for millennia. These particular explosive hatreds and tensions will be there if our troops leave in six months, six years or six decades. It is time to re-deploy our troops and to re-focus our attention on the real threats posed by global terrorism.
www.huffingtonpost.com
It appears that the neocon chickenhawks are launching the swiftboats again...
Bush Admin. Launched Secret Smear Campaign Against Murtha...
The Huffington Post
The Huffington Post has learned the Bush administration recently asked high ranking military leaders to denounce Congressman John Murtha. Congressman Murtha has called for the Bush Administration to withdraw US troops from Iraq.
The Bush Administration first attacked Rep. Murtha for his Iraq views by associating him with the filmmaker Michael Moore and Representative Jean Schmidt likened him to a coward on the floor of the House of Representatives. When those tactics backfired, Dick Cheney called Murtha "A good man, a marine, a patriot and he's taking a clear stand in an entirely legitimate discussion."
Though the White House has backed off publicly, administration officials have nevertheless recently made calls to military leaders to condemn the congressman. So far they have refused.
Rep. Murtha spent 37 years in the Marine Corps earning a Bronze Star, two Purple Hearts and a Navy Distinguished Service Medal. His service has earned him the respect of the military, and made him a trusted adviser to both Republican and Democratic presidents and leaders of the armed forces.
Unfolding...
Questions About My Record
Rep. John Murtha
This afternoon, CNSNEWS.com published an article entitled "Murtha's War Hero Status Called Into Question" on its website. The article questions the validity of my purple hearts. This is my response:
"Questions about my record are clearly an attempt to distract attention from the real issue, which is that our brave men and women in uniform are dying and being injured every day in the middle of a civil war that can be resolved only by the Iraqis themselves."
"I volunteered for a year's duty in Vietnam. I was out in the field almost every single day. We took heavy casualties in my regiment the year that I was there. In my fitness reports, I was rated No. 1. My record is clear."
www.huffingtonpost.com
Will yesterday's in-your-face decision by Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, Iraq's most influential Shiite leader, to renege on his pledge to amend the new Constitution in a manner acceptable to Sunnis be the shove in the back that sends Iraq over the brink into all-out civil war?
It certainly has that potential.
Before the constitution was put to a vote in October, Sunnis were threatening to boycott the referendum.
The problem? The charter contains provisions that decentralize political power in the country in a way that leaves the vast majority of Iraqi oil under the control of Kurds and Shiites -- and the Sunnis facing an impoverished future. See Juan Cole for more on this.
Desperate to avoid a Sunni boycott, the Bush administration twisted every Shiite arm it could find. U.S. ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad ultimately brokered a last-minute deal that would make it possible for Sunnis to substantially amend the constitution once the newly elected Parliament is seated.
That deal allowed the December elections to proceed -- and the Bush administration to use Sunni participation in those elections as a major PR talking point. (See this bloggingheads.tv debate between Mickey Kaus and Robert Wright about whether there's still a good chance that democracy will catch on in Iraq.)
Indeed, in his town-hall appearance yesterday, the president cited Sunni involvement as evidence of the "remarkable" political progress in Iraq: "In the last election, the rejectionists who had sat out the first couple of elections -- many Sunnis sat out; they said, we're not going to be involved in the political process -- got involved. Slowly but surely, those who were trying to stop the advance of democracy are becoming marginalized."
And, in previous speeches, he has described the agreement to allow changes to the constitution as a key element in keeping the political process moving forward. "Thanks to last-minute changes, including a new procedure for considering amendments to the constitution," he said on the eve of the December vote, "the revised constitution was endorsed by Iraq's largest Sunni party… Sunnis voted in large numbers for the first time. They joined the political process. And by doing so, they reject the violence of the Saddamists and rejectionists. Through hard work and compromise, Iraqis adopted the most progressive, democratic constitution in the Arab world."
Now it is clear that the Shiites were just saying what the Bush administration wanted to hear, never meant it, and never intended to follow through. "We will stop anyone who tries to change the Constitution," said al-Hakim yesterday.
This belligerent stance could easily drive Iraqi Sunnis (in the words of today's New York Times) "into the arms of radical Sunni groups in neighboring lands" and "leave the Shiites even more dependent than they are now on Iran and American troops."
Sounds like a recipe for endless civil war -- and a foreign policy debacle of unimaginable proportions for America.
But, despite this looming disaster, with the exception of the Times' powerful editorial, the mainstream media are giving this major development hardly any play. Even the New York Times has its news story on al-Hakim's statements on page A-10 -- and at the very bottom of the page at that. In the Washington Post, the story appears on A-14, while the Los Angeles Times and USA Today do not cover the story at all! And a LexisNexis search didn't yield a single mention of the story on any of the broadcast or cable news shows.
So the match that could ignite an all-out civil war in Iraq was just lit and the U.S. media can barely muster a yawn.
by Arianna Huffington
www.huffingtonpost.com
Sounds like typical right wing smear and coverups....theyve got it down to an elegant science.
Rep. Murtha spent 37 years in the Marine Corps earning a Bronze Star, two Purple Hearts and a Navy Distinguished Service Medal.
Dick Cheney called Murtha "A good man, a marine, a patriot and he's taking a clear stand in an entirely legitimate discussion."
Thats for public consumption. Privately, administration officials have recently made calls to military leaders to condemn the congressman. So far they have refused.
The present smear attempt against Murtha is quoting an aide to a Republican senator who Murtha ran against, unsuccessfully. Guess who Murtha was able to defeat in a later election? That same aide.
Another of his present detractors is yet another politician that Murtha defeated in an election, back in 1982.
On Friday, Jan. 13, Murtha's congressional communications director provided a copy of a letter from the commandant of the U.S. Marine Corps, citing Murtha's request of Sept. 26, 1967, seeking Purple Hearts.
"The records of this Headquarters show that you are entitled to the Purple Heart and a Gold Star in lieu of a second Purple Heart for wounds received in action against insurgent Communist Guerrilla forces on 22 March and 7 May 1967 in the Republic of Vietnam,"
Of course the actual facts and the readily apparent bias of the persons making these baseless charges won't stop the Republicans. Its utterly shameful how this veteran is being treated by this Administration and its cronys and puppet media outlets.
But if they are ready to mislead a Nation about the need for war, why should we be surprised when they do similarly about a warrior
FK
But, but, but, but ... Bill O'Reilly served in the frat houses of Harvard while others took his place in southeast Asia. Warriors such as O'Reilly have the right to condemn Murtha.
:(
Iraq Soldiers Speak Out Supporting Murtha...
Posted January 14, 2006 02:17 PM
Reuters/Slahaldeen Rasheed
On January 5, 2006, Congressman Murtha held a town hall meeting with Cong. Jim Moran (D-VA 08).
The soldier who asked the first question served in Afghanistan and said that morale among troops is high and that he would gladly serve in Iraq today. His comment was the only one replayed by Fox News the next day.
But the majority of soldiers in attendance spoke out against the current policy. Fox News did not broadcast their remarks.
Here are some excerpts.
John Brumes, Infantry Sgt. US Army:
Everything that the Bush Adminstration told us about that mission in Iraq is absolutely incorrect. Furthermore, I'd like to say ... I came home to no job, no health insurance. Until we take care of this war, we can't take care of the problems that matter like health care.
I've witnessed both ends... Congressman Murtha, I implore you to keep doing what you're doing.
John Powers, Capt. 1st Armored Division, served 12 months in Iraq:
The thing that hits me the most is the accountability. ... Where is the accountability for those men [who took us to war], as well as where is the accountability for Paul Bremmer, who misplaced millions of dollars and claims to keep accountability in the war zone?... I know that if we lost $500 we would be court marshaled. So where is the accountability for this leadership?
Garin Reppenhagen, served as a sniper in Iraq for a year in the First Infantry Division:
My question is also about accountability. The soldiers that you see, Congressman Murtha, at the hospitals... those are my friends. After coming back, being a veteran, my question is why? Why did we go to this war, why the hell did it happen, why are we in this condition. A lot of soldiers are debating whether this war was fraudulent to begin with. And there doesn't seem to be a clear answer. A lot of Americans now are debating the fact over whether or not the war was fraudulent in the first place. How come there hasn't been an investigation on the fraudulent lead up to the war by this Administration?
C-SPAN has the full broadcast here.
C-SPAN link available at www.huffingtonpost.com