Thought for the Day

[filghy2]

Well, I can certainly visualize a scenario in which someone might pop onto this board and start expressing unpopular opinions and get tag-team verbal raped by you lot. If I had the inclination I suppose I could go back and study the dynamics of the relationship between you guys and Peejaye, take sides, get involved, spend many hours discussing it. But, uh, I'm not going to do that. If Peejaye wants to have a presence in this forum he's going to have to make himself present.

How typical. We're talking about a guy who conducted a reign of crude abuse over a long period against people who disagreed with him, but in your delusional mind he's the victim. I can produce lots of examples of his handiwork if you want.

It's curious that you are now apparently so anxious to disown him given he's been your only 'friend' here. Could it be to do with something in his PM that you've now remembered? Not that it matters, I guess, but I'm vaguely curious as to what hare-brained scheme he cooked up.

[Nick Danger]

How typical. We're talking about a guy who conducted a reign of crude abuse over a long period against people who disagreed with him, but in your delusional mind he's the victim. I can produce lots of examples of his handiwork if you want.

It's curious that you are now apparently so anxious to disown him given he's been your only 'friend' here. Could it be to do with something in his PM that you've now remembered? Not that it matters, I guess, but I'm vaguely curious as to what hare-brained scheme he cooked up.

You're right, Flighty. It IS typical of me that I'm not going to spend my time looking through old posts and deciding whether or not I like Peejaye and then abusing him on your behalf if I don't.

[filghy2]

Many bizarre claims have been made about the 2020 election, but this latest one by Mike Lindell one surely takes the prize.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/mypillow-ceo-mike-lindell-says-he-has-evidence-to-put-300-million-in-jail-for-election-fraud/ar-AASIfjR?ocid=msedgntp
“It’s so amazing, all the things that we have,” he told conservative news channel Real America’s Voice in an interview that aired on Tuesday. “We have all the pieces of the puzzle. You talk about evidence. We have enough evidence to put everyone in prison for life, 300 and some million people, we have that back all the way to November and December.”

Did they remove this man's brain and replace it with pillow stuffing?

[blackchubby38]

Many bizarre claims have been made about the 2020 election, but this latest one by Mike Lindell one surely takes the prize.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/mypillow-ceo-mike-lindell-says-he-has-evidence-to-put-300-million-in-jail-for-election-fraud/ar-AASIfjR?ocid=msedgntp
“It’s so amazing, all the things that we have,” he told conservative news channel Real America’s Voice in an interview that aired on Tuesday. “We have all the pieces of the puzzle. You talk about evidence. We have enough evidence to put everyone in prison for life, 300 and some million people, we have that back all the way to November and December.”

Did they remove this man's brain and replace it with pillow stuffing?

Nah, its just all the crack that he used to smoke.

[broncofan]

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/leader-oath-keepers-and-10-other-individuals-indicted-federal-court-seditious-conspiracy-and

Yesterday members of the Oath Keepers were charged with seditious conspiracy and conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding. Things are ratcheting up and they face 20 years on each charge. This is the most serious charge filed so far stemming from the failed insurrection by morons, neo-nazis, and militia clowns.
(https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/14/politics/oath-keeper-seditious-conspiracy-first-appearance/index.html)

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Many bizarre claims have been made about the 2020 election, but this latest one by Mike Lindell one surely takes the prize.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/mypillow-ceo-mike-lindell-says-he-has-evidence-to-put-300-million-in-jail-for-election-fraud/ar-AASIfjR?ocid=msedgntp
“It’s so amazing, all the things that we have,” he told conservative news channel Real America’s Voice in an interview that aired on Tuesday. “We have all the pieces of the puzzle. You talk about evidence. We have enough evidence to put everyone in prison for life, 300 and some million people, we have that back all the way to November and December.”

Did they remove this man's brain and replace it with pillow stuffing? Completely agree that Mike Lindell
{Conspiracy Theorist} takes the prize for being the most bizarre claim that has been made about the 2020 Election. He's a few quarters short of a dollar.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Nah, its just all the crack that he used to smoke. Agree 1000%.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Not surprised at all that the votes to pass the Freedom To Vote and John Lewis Voting Rights Acts,and change senate rules so the bills can be passed with a simple majority with all 50 Democratic Senators and Vice President Kamala Harris failed in the US Senate,when all 50 Republican Senators voted to oppose the two voting bills from passing ,and the two DINOS Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema joining them to uphold the filibuster. Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema can't have it both ways claiming that they support voting rights legislation,but refusing to change the senate rules so the bills can be voted on and passed and sign into law. and Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema's explanations for choosing to protect the filibuster is delusional,misinformed and tonedeafed. but they sure had no problem changing the senate rules for raising the national debt limit,but won't do the same for voting rights. Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema are definitely going to hear from their constituents when they return to their districts. And both of them are up for reelection in 2024 and more than likely they will lose. President Joe Biden,Vice President Kamala Harris and the Democrats in Congress and US Senate will have to come up with another way to pass voting rights legislation and protect voting rights.

[Stavros]

Who is Joe Rogan, and am I missing something important?

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jan/26/spotify-neil-young-joe-rogan-covid-misinformation

[thombergeron]

Joe Rogan is Father Coughlin for the millennial generation.

[Stavros]

Hmmm...more time wasting on Google required...

[blackchubby38]

Who is Joe Rogan, and am I missing something important?

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jan/26/spotify-neil-young-joe-rogan-covid-misinformation

Joe Rogan is a stand-up comedian, former host of Fear Factor, UFC commentator, and hosts his own podcast. He is also someone that many on the left have been trying to cancel for the past few years. His biggest transgressions have been some of his views on trans rights, gender issues, and hosting a platform for personalities that some progressives disagree with and/or just don’t like. These include Ben Shapiro, Jordan Peterson, and Tim Pool. Just to name a few. But his latest “crime” has been spreading misinformation when it comes to Covid.

I occasionally watch clips of his show on You Tube and I don't always agree with his views. But I’m glad that Spotify is not caving into pressure and sticking by him. If you look at their statement, they have done their due diligence when it comes to removing content that is guilty of spreading misinformation. Rogan is on the air 5 days week for about 4 hours a day and he is not spending all that time talking about Covid.

If people don’t want to listen to his show that’s their right. If they want to cancel their subscriptions to Spotify, that’s the power a consumer has. If Neil Young and Joni Mitchell want to remove their music from Spotify, more power to them.

But I have never been a fan of the angry mob forming on social media and going after someone because that person said something stupid. Especially when an argument be made that the main reason for people’s dislike of Joe Rogan is that he got the Spotify deal to begin with.

[Stavros]

Many thanks for this, Blackchubby. The background to my request is that I had heard of Spotify but didn't really know what it is until my Christmas-New Year vacation in Germany, where one of my hosts downloaded it onto my phone. At the time I assumed it was just pop music, so it was of no interest to me but I was told there is tons of classical music and I was surprised to find some obscure works that I searched for to see how comprehesive it is, and it is almost as good as YouTube, which I use most, though Spotify doesn't have the ads that make an intrusive nuisance in too many YT recordings.

I had no idea there was anything else, so I didn't quite understand this Joe Rogan situation, and he seems to be just another American idiot polluting the air-waves, of whom there are a plenitude, some of them on HA. I think the key response to your argument about censorship would be for me to agree, but with a reservation.

I can handle most of the drivel that Republicans and their fellow-travellers produce as arguments, we have a similar party of fools in the Conservatives here, and at other extremes, and I have complained in the threads in General Discussion that some of the trans activists in this country have taken their militant attitude into areas of personal abuse that undermines the cause, if the cause is to maintain, and extend to Trans people the rights that other citizens have. Cancel Culture, so called, is as common on the 'right' as well as the 'left', an obvious example being the use of 'Parental Choice' or 'Power' in schools in some US States to ban books -in one case, Toni Morrison's The Bluest Eye. One notes the same cohort of strident parents bleating about morals have no shame in allowing their children to read a book full of tales of jealousy, robbery, violence, rape, hatred, spite, and a worrying amount of sexual depravity known as incest, and I refer of course to the Holy Bible.

The question is posed by JS Mill's definition of Liberty as a condition in which the behaviour of the citizen ought not to be interfered with, unless it causes harm to others. I have quoted the famous passage below.

In Rogan's case, then, does his podcast cause harm to others, actually or potentially if on his advice, some citizens either do not get vaccinated against Covid- at risk to themselves and others-, or use some drug that is not designed to deal with it and may in fact cause harm; or anything else that he says. I think the issue thus must decide what is merely his opinion, and what may cause harm to others even if he does not intend that to happen. I believe Spotify have added warnings to his podcast that may give listeners the means to question Rogan's views, so to some extent the issue of harm may have been dealt with through this act of admin.

Whether or not such limits should be placed on, say Tucker Carlson and his outrageous broadcasts I am not sure, as the only purpose Carlson's broadcasts serve, is to attract paying customers who want to listen in agreement or be shocked by the deliberately offensive, and often anti-Semitic rubbish that spews out of his mouth. The irony, if there is any, is that the person most harmed by this campaign of ignorance and hate, is Tucker Carlson himself, having as a consequence, no credibility as a source of intelligent debate on US or any other politics (eg, his risible attempt to explain the conflct between Ukraine and Russia). A similar fate has been visited on Alex Jones, whose aggressive attacks on some people has caused harm for which he has been justfly convicted in a court of law. That may be the best way to go, expensive and time-consuming as it is. The First Amendment does not allow the absolute expression of freedom, and, as Mill's arguments suggests, it was never intended to, and should not.

This is a well-known passage from Mill's On Liberty.

"...the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not a sufficient warrant. He cannot rightfully be compelled to do or forbear because it will be better for him to do so, because it will make him happier, because, in the opinions of others, to do so would be wise or even right. These are good reasons for remonstrating with him, or reasoning with him, or persuading him, or entreating him, but not for compelling him or visiting him with any evil in case he do otherwise. To justify that, the conduct from which it is desired to deter him must be calculated to produce evil to someone else."
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mill-moral-political/#LibPriCatApp

[broncofan]

My view is that people have to avoid providing incentives for people who say harmful, disgraceful things and even need to find legal ways to disincentivize it. Rogan's misinformation is not a crime, nor could it be, but it's probably more harmful than most crimes committed in this country and has also probably caused a lot of death. If artists want to leave potential royalties and earnings on the table to avoid assisting this guy or even to pressure spotify to stop broadcasting him, more power to them. Some have argued that people don't go to Rogan for medical information, but that's not true. If they listened to their doctors they'd get vaccinated and it is charlatans like Rogan and the people he has on his podcast who have convinced a lot of people not to get the vaccine.

We protect the expression of horseshit like Rogan's from prosecution by the first amendment. We protect those who denounce him and who pressure companies not to do business with repugnant people like him in the same way. People who are afraid of the "mob" always seem to express that fear as a slippery slope argument before any unreasonable cancelling has been done. If someone who is very rich and will never have to work again wants to tell people to take horse dewormer for a pandemic that's killed millions of people and not get vaccinated, I'm not sure what decent people can do except try to discourage that view. It leads directly to death. It leads directly to a prolongation of the suffering. Rogan doesn't have any sort of entitlement to a forum (other than a public sidewalk) to express his views.

[Nick Danger]

My view is that people have to avoid providing incentives for people who say harmful, disgraceful things and even need to find legal ways to disincentivize it. Rogan's misinformation is not a crime, nor could it be, but it's probably more harmful than most crimes committed in this country and has also probably caused a lot of death. If artists want to leave potential royalties and earnings on the table to avoid assisting this guy or even to pressure spotify to stop broadcasting him, more power to them. Some have argued that people don't go to Rogan for medical information, but that's not true. If they listened to their doctors they'd get vaccinated and it is charlatans like Rogan and the people he has on his podcast who have convinced a lot of people not to get the vaccine.

We protect the expression of horseshit like Rogan's from prosecution by the first amendment. We protect those who denounce him and who pressure companies not to do business with repugnant people like him in the same way. People who are afraid of the "mob" always seem to express that fear as a slippery slope argument before any unreasonable cancelling has been done. If someone who is very rich and will never have to work again wants to tell people to take horse dewormer for a pandemic that's killed millions of people and not get vaccinated, I'm not sure what decent people can do except try to discourage that view. It leads directly to death. It leads directly to a prolongation of the suffering. Rogan doesn't have any sort of entitlement to a forum (other than a public sidewalk) to express his views.

I doubt Joe Rogan cares if he did get pulled off Spotify, he's got several other platforms. Just another example of liberals going full Barney Fife and shooting themselves in the foot. Neil Young gets 10% of his income from Spotify. I doubt he'll miss it but the point is, Joe Rogan's not going to suffer at all out of this, Neil Young is. But then Neil's always been an asshole. He's also homophobic, not sure if you knew - “You go to a supermarket and you see a faggot behind the fuckin’ cash register, you don’t want him to handle your potatoes.” – Neil Young in Melody Maker, September 1985

And no, he never apologized or explained that comment.

[Stavros]

My view is that people have to avoid providing incentives for people who say harmful, disgraceful things and even need to find legal ways to disincentivize it. Rogan's misinformation is not a crime, nor could it be, but it's probably more harmful than most crimes committed in this country and has also probably caused a lot of death. If artists want to leave potential royalties and earnings on the table to avoid assisting this guy or even to pressure spotify to stop broadcasting him, more power to them. Some have argued that people don't go to Rogan for medical information, but that's not true. If they listened to their doctors they'd get vaccinated and it is charlatans like Rogan and the people he has on his podcast who have convinced a lot of people not to get the vaccine.

We protect the expression of horseshit like Rogan's from prosecution by the first amendment. We protect those who denounce him and who pressure companies not to do business with repugnant people like him in the same way. People who are afraid of the "mob" always seem to express that fear as a slippery slope argument before any unreasonable cancelling has been done. If someone who is very rich and will never have to work again wants to tell people to take horse dewormer for a pandemic that's killed millions of people and not get vaccinated, I'm not sure what decent people can do except try to discourage that view. It leads directly to death. It leads directly to a prolongation of the suffering. Rogan doesn't have any sort of entitlement to a forum (other than a public sidewalk) to express his views.


I agree with this, but would ask if, in US law, any action can be taken if harm is caused from public statements, be it harm of a temporary nature, or even death. I assume intent would have to proven, that the speech act which caused it might not itself be the causal factor if the person making it can plausibly claim they meant no harm. Given the ease of transmission of Covid in 2020 and 2021, it seems a flimsy argument when multiple 'gatherings' in the US and elsewhere resulted in infection at great emotional and financial cost to the victims. From Murdoch's point of view, all publicity is good publicity if it gets people clicking, and the more outrageous it is, so much the better. But doesn't that mean his culture of vugarity and lies is creating the permissive envronment in which potentially harmful speech can take place? The Germans, for example, have laws that prohibit speech acts and other public acts which defend or promote National Socialism, and for good reason.

I guess the law is the pivot, and that it is hard to prosecute -did Trump's speech on Jan 6th encourage citizens to attack and invade the Capitol building with the seditious intention of halting the certification of the election? The language is sufficiently vague to make prosecution hard, even though the intent to stop the work of Congress was established almost as soon as the results were first announced and rejected by Trump in November 2020. And his entire campaign against that election has caused harm, including death and suicide -and even if it can't be proven in Court, I think the court of public opinion, other than a minority of fanatics, holds Trump responsible.

[blackchubby38]

My view is that people have to avoid providing incentives for people who say harmful, disgraceful things and even need to find legal ways to disincentivize it. Rogan's misinformation is not a crime, nor could it be, but it's probably more harmful than most crimes committed in this country and has also probably caused a lot of death. If artists want to leave potential royalties and earnings on the table to avoid assisting this guy or even to pressure spotify to stop broadcasting him, more power to them. Some have argued that people don't go to Rogan for medical information, but that's not true. If they listened to their doctors they'd get vaccinated and it is charlatans like Rogan and the people he has on his podcast who have convinced a lot of people not to get the vaccine.

We protect the expression of horseshit like Rogan's from prosecution by the first amendment. We protect those who denounce him and who pressure companies not to do business with repugnant people like him in the same way. People who are afraid of the "mob" always seem to express that fear as a slippery slope argument before any unreasonable cancelling has been done. If someone who is very rich and will never have to work again wants to tell people to take horse dewormer for a pandemic that's killed millions of people and not get vaccinated, I'm not sure what decent people can do except try to discourage that view. It leads directly to death. It leads directly to a prolongation of the suffering. Rogan doesn't have any sort of entitlement to a forum (other than a public sidewalk) to express his views.

You do know the Ivermectin that Rogan was talking about wasn't the horse de-wormer, But the anti-parasite one.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin

Ivermectin (/ˌaɪvərˈmɛktɪn/, EYE-vər-MEK-tin) is an antiparasitic drug.[6] After its discovery in 1975,[7] its first uses were in veterinary medicine to prevent and treat heartworm and acariasis.[8] Approved for human use in 1987,[9] today it is used to treat infestations including head lice, scabies, river blindness (onchocerciasis), strongyloidiasis, trichuriasis, ascariasis and lymphatic filariasis.[10][11][8][12] It works through many mechanisms to kill the targeted parasites,[10] and can be taken orally, or applied to the skin for external infestations.[10][13] It belongs to the avermectin family of medications.[10]

William Campbell and Satoshi Ōmura won the 2015 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine for its discovery and applications.[14] It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines,[15] and is approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration as an antiparasitic agent.[16] In 2018, it was the 420th most commonly prescribed medication in the United States, with more than 100,000 prescriptions.[17] It is available as a generic medicine.[18][19]

Then there is this:

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/japans-kowa-says-ivermectin-effective-against-omicron-phase-iii-trial-2022-01-31/

[broncofan]

I know what Ivermectin is as I posted about it when it first became a hot topic among cranks (it's a horse de-wormer and an anti-parasite-you do know worms are parasites?). In multiple human trials it has been shown to have no efficacy against Covid. Penicillin for instance saves millions of lives every year. If someone promoted it as a covid treatment they'd be a crank.

Why do you think posting that Ivermectin is an essential drug is at all relevant? It's not a treatment for covid. Hydroxychloroquine is effective against malaria and is also effective to treat autoimmune disorders. You know what else? It's not a treatment for covid. Scientists also thought it showed some in vitro antiviral capacity but it didn't show efficacy in phase III trials.

Here's a quote from your second article "The original Reuters story misstated that ivermectin was "effective" against Omicron in Phase III clinical trials, which are conducted in humans." There have been multiple trials testing ivermectin as a treatment for covid and in meta-analysis it hasn't been shown to be effective.

You know who thinks ivermectin isn't a treatment against Covid? The CDC, the FDA, the EMA, the WHO. But by all means take advice from Joe Rogan.

Edit: From your wiki article- During the COVID-19 pandemic, misinformation has been widely spread claiming that ivermectin is beneficial for treating and preventing COVID-19.[20][21] Such claims are not backed by credible scientific evidence.

There's also this:): https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/01/reuters-ivermectin-treatment-omicron-correction/

[blackchubby38]

I know what Ivermectin is as I posted about it when it first became a hot topic among cranks (it's a horse de-wormer and an anti-parasite-you do know worms are parasites?). In multiple human trials it has been shown to have no efficacy against Covid. Penicillin for instance saves millions of lives every year. If someone promoted it as a covid treatment they'd be a crank.

Why do you think posting that Ivermectin is an essential drug is at all relevant? It's not a treatment for covid. Hydroxychloroquine is effective against malaria and is also effective to treat autoimmune disorders. You know what else? It's not a treatment for covid. Scientists also thought it showed some in vitro antiviral capacity but it didn't show efficacy in phase III trials.

Here's a quote from your second article "The original Reuters story misstated that ivermectin was "effective" against Omicron in Phase III clinical trials, which are conducted in humans." There have been multiple trials testing ivermectin as a treatment for covid and in meta-analysis it hasn't been shown to be effective.

You know who thinks ivermectin isn't a treatment against Covid? The CDC, the FDA, the EMA, the WHO. But by all means take advice from Joe Rogan.

Edit: From your wiki article- During the COVID-19 pandemic, misinformation has been widely spread claiming that ivermectin is beneficial for treating and preventing COVID-19.[20][21] Such claims are not backed by credible scientific evidence.

There's also this:): https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/01/reuters-ivermectin-treatment-omicron-correction/



I stand corrected about the second article.

As for the first thing that I posted, yes I do know that worms are parasites. I was just pointing out that they guy wasn't actually telling people to take horse dewormer. I saw also the second part of the Wikipedia article about the claims about it being an effective treatment for Covid.

I also would never take medical advice from the guy either or any media personality for that matter. I'm already vaccinated and boosted. I'm just not going to lose my shit if the guy is talking about it on his show.

[broncofan]

Here's a quote from your second article "The original Reuters story misstated that ivermectin was "effective" against Omicron in Phase III clinical trials, which are conducted in humans." There have been multiple trials testing ivermectin as a treatment for covid and in meta-analysis it hasn't been shown to be effective.
You can see my comments from the first weeks of the pandemic. Chloroquine was also shown to be effective in test tubes but that does not mean it showed efficacy in placebo controlled trials. You know what has? Paxlovid. Joe Rogan has nothing to say about that though https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-authorizes-first-oral-antiviral-treatment-covid-19

If Ivermectin is effective then it should be demonstrated in a phase iii clinical trial.

[blackchubby38]

I agree with this, but would ask if, in US law, any action can be taken if harm is caused from public statements, be it harm of a temporary nature, or even death. I assume intent would have to proven, that the speech act which caused it might not itself be the causal factor if the person making it can plausibly claim they meant no harm. Given the ease of transmission of Covid in 2020 and 2021, it seems a flimsy argument when multiple 'gatherings' in the US and elsewhere resulted in infection at great emotional and financial cost to the victims. From Murdoch's point of view, all publicity is good publicity if it gets people clicking, and the more outrageous it is, so much the better. But doesn't that mean his culture of vugarity and lies is creating the permissive envronment in which potentially harmful speech can take place? The Germans, for example, have laws that prohibit speech acts and other public acts which defend or promote National Socialism, and for good reason.

I guess the law is the pivot, and that it is hard to prosecute -did Trump's speech on Jan 6th encourage citizens to attack and invade the Capitol building with the seditious intention of halting the certification of the election? The language is sufficiently vague to make prosecution hard, even though the intent to stop the work of Congress was established almost as soon as the results were first announced and rejected by Trump in November 2020. And his entire campaign against that election has caused harm, including death and suicide -and even if it can't be proven in Court, I think the court of public opinion, other than a minority of fanatics, holds Trump responsible.

I still believe in the clear and present danger precedent set by the Supreme Court when it comes to free speech. If the words, whether they're in the press, in a speech, or on a social media platform can lead to/leads to imminent death, serious physical harm and/or destruction of private/public property, than I have no problems about censoring a person and possibly holding them accountable in a court of law if the intent can proven.

[Stavros]

Two thoughts in response-
1) I think the problem, and it is not just one for the US legal system but ours too, is proving that a speech act has caused harm, particularly if this is emotional harm rather than, say, a physical injury. The UK, for example, has laws that limit what can be said about the Monarchy in public. Laws on Hate Crime are controversial, and we are currently agonising over comments made by Police officers about women, including during investigations some of which are derogatory to the point of being obscene by most definitions -but are such acts illegal?
https://www.mylondon.news/news/zone-1-news/i-would-happily-rape-you-22943239

Is beng offended the same as being harmed?

2) What puzzles me at first with people like Rogan, is why they query immunology when it is presented to them by professionals who have dedicated their lives to it -not the system so much as the message, and its recommendations of this drug rather than the other one. After all, how can Rogan know if Pfizer is more or less effective than Ivermectin?

It only makes sense if one sees it as politics trumping science, just as if the US Govt says the country is under threat from X, Rogan and people like him would query it and say, maybe it's Y. Being sceptical of Government is a good thing, but it doesn't mean everything politicians say has a hidden agenda and is a cover-up for something that secretly benefits them. Take Trump, who now openly admits his aim all along was the deny the American people the right to vote him out of office by halting that part of the process which confirmed Biden as President. No conspiracy here, an open attack on democracy -but something he announced way back in 2016.

It could be ignorance or a deliberate choice, but it doesn't take much effort to find simple explanations of vaccines and immunlogy as they have been developed over the years, so I find this vaccine controversy exposes its doubters as frankly plain stupid -and stupid enough to endanger the lives of others, and that is unacceptable, and plain wrong.

This brief overview should help the doubters (not much in evidence here, thankfully) -but note the comment on Measles ought to be tempered with caution as the danger of a resurgence is possible if more children are not vaccinated against it.

https://www.immune.org.nz/vaccines/vaccine-development/brief-history-vaccination

This is a bit more technical but is also a useful summary
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4151719/

[filghy2]

2) What puzzles me at first with people like Rogan, is why they query immunology when it is presented to them by professionals who have dedicated their lives to it -not the system so much as the message, and its recommendations of this drug rather than the other one. After all, how can Rogan know if Pfizer is more or less effective than Ivermectin?

It's the alignment of financial incentives, ego and (anti-government) political inclinations. This guy is making big money ($100 million from Spotify) by appealing to a certain audience segment. Would anyone be interested in him if he was agreeing with the scientific consensus? As the old saying goes, it's hard to convince a person of something when their income depends on not believing it.

[Stavros]

Someone help me understand this -'Don't Say the Gay' -in Florida? Isn't Florida one of the Gayest States in the Union? I have never been there, but it strikes me that this latest Repubican ruse is, shall we say, 'Misplaced'?

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/01/florida-lgbtq-parental-rights-desantis.html

[Stavros]

A new twist in the UK on the issues of Free speech, where it is not so much harm to others that is at issue, but the definition of 'Hate Speech', the law, and an attempt to use it to criminalize speech acts.

The issue has arisen because of a line in 'Comedian' (don't be fooled, he is just an ignorant little prick) Jimmy Carr's act, which you can read in the link, I don't intend to repeat it here.

Nadine Dorries, who as is recorded in the link, in 2017 tweeted “leftwing snowflakes are killing comedy”, is now the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, and in response to Carr's 'joke' has said “We are looking at legislation via the media bill, which would bring into scope those comments from other video-on-demand streaming outlets like Netflix (https://www.theguardian.com/media/netflix).”

I doubt most non-UK people here have heard of either Jimmy Carr, or Nadine Dorries -who once absconded from her job as an MP to take part in a game-show called I'm a Celebrity -Get Me Out of Here! I would struggle to define Carr as left-wing, if he has any politics it appears to be sexual politics of the kind that would dive Kate Millet barmy; he is just not funny, as his tv shows demonstrate with miserable regularity, for which, like so many people on TV these days, he is paid a fortune (and for some time in an offshore account too).

But I think the route to law Dorries -a devoted servant of Boris- is taking, is a dangerous one. The real question is why Carr or anyone else thinks the Holocaust can be mined for jokes, and while this is not new, it doesn't make it any more acceptable. But to criminalize other peope's ignorance and stupidity is itself pretty stupid, and where does one draw the line about what is or is not acceptable in the public domain? Hate speech might become part of the vernacular, but for whom? Carr's routine is not going to harm anyone more than himself, but even with a 'trigger warning' before his show, what does he think is prime material for his routine?

And is it not curious how this Government, which has trumpeted Brexit as a new era of freedom, reducing the presence of the State in our lives, is extending it, or proposing to extent it into our living rooms, and in a sense, our thoughts too?

You can read the details here-
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/05/nadine-dorries-proposes-law-to-rein-in-streamers-after-shocking-jimmy-carr-joke

[Stavros]

If Jan 6th was 'Legitimate Discourse', does that mean 'Hang Mike Pence' was not an illegal incitement to murder?

[KnightHawk 2.0]

If Jan 6th was 'Legitimate Discourse', does that mean 'Hang Mike Pence' was not an illegal incitement to murder?The Republican National Committee is full of shit when they said that the Insurrection on Wednesday January 6th 2021 was legitimate discourse,which it wasn't. It was an attempted coup by the Domestic Terrorist Leader, his enablers in congress and senate and his delusional supporters to overthrow the government and change the results of the 2020 Presidental Election. And Trump Supporters chanting Hang Mike Pence is an illegal incitement to murder.

[broncofan]

It's the alignment of financial incentives, ego and (anti-government) political inclinations. This guy is making big money ($100 million from Spotify) by appealing to a certain audience segment. Would anyone be interested in him if he was agreeing with the scientific consensus? As the old saying goes, it's hard to convince a person of something when their income depends on not believing it.
Because I have watched MMA for about 10 years I am very familiar with Joe Rogan. I even listened to an occasional podcast interview when he would have a respectable guest on (read: not Gavin McInnes or Charles Johnson or someone of that ilk). He is someone who is able to listen to absurd views and rational views and not discriminate between them. In other words he's a moron who some people think is bright. He knows a lot about martial arts but I've heard him say really stupid things even about a subject he knows a lot about. I could give examples but it's not the main point.

The things he's done that are controversial involve lots of casual racism, lots of providing platforms for racists while not having the moral backbone to even push back against their views, and generalized covid stupidity syndrome. The first tweet on his timeline is an example of his stupidity. It is a tweet using an op-ed about the potential for psychotropics to improve public morality to try to make people believe there is an active conspiracy by the government to brainwash people and take away their freedom.

I don't support the criminalization of racism or making stupid public pronouncements even if their less proximate consequences are very harmful. I just don't think people should want to interact with him because he's loathsome. But what does this mean? It doesn't mean he can't get loans or is in some way disenfranchised. It would simply mean that he is no longer a personality that companies can build their brands around and have broad-based support. He can be a niche figure but there is no entitlement to large platforms, large contracts, or public support.

[Stavros]

The things he's done that are controversial involve lots of casual racism, lots of providing platforms for racists while not having the moral backbone to even push back against their views, and generalized covid stupidity syndrome. The first tweet on his timeline is an example of his stupidity. It is a tweet using an op-ed about the potential for psychotropics to improve public morality to try to make people believe there is an active conspiracy by the government to brainwash people and take away their freedom.


This is the kind of thinking that puzzles me, along with the claims made by those currently enforcing the 'Siege of Ottawa' against the wishes of the people who live there.

First, one wonders if they know what freedom is, when they are blaring their horns all day and most of the night. If they tried this in China or Moscow, they would be in a prison van within five minutes. If they tried it in Damascus, they would be in a van, then prison for maybe six months, and for some, this might be the start of torture, and the end of their lives. I understand that things are relative, but even in Canada, there is no assault on anyone's freedom through the vaccine mandate, given that most of Canada's population has now been vaccinated, and truckers too -I think something like 90% of them. This is a co-ordinated campaign by some Canadians and some, perhaps a lot of Americans who have tired of Democracy and want something more direct, which, without any irony, would mean the kind of Government against which they are protesting.

Lastly, what in fact is the problem wth the State? When Hobbes pubished Leviathan in 1651, it was in the aftermath of a bloody civil war where, again, issues of 'freedom' were supposedly a key demand. What Hobbes did was propose a State of Nature be replaced with a State of Government; a lawless state shaped by human emotions, replaced with an organized State shaped by Reason. One could also argue it was Reason replacing Faith, and that though Hobbes was not allowed to say it, there should be a separation of the State from Religion.

The citizen thus trades a degree of personal liberty for the protection of the State, and yes, this has led the State using taxation and government central and local, to extend its reach -but does this mean Government and the State is inherently wicked, and permanently seeking ways to 'control' the people?

The same people today who support Trump, have attacked previous and current Republicans, as if those 'Rinos' were Big Government advocates when they are not. And the State, more perhaps in Europe than the US, does provide services which we, the people want them to.

Fringe theories have become mainstream because it pays to generate clicks out of idle curiosity for most people, but which then engages some in the conviction that we are all being had. Yet in the UK this last month, the people have been made to look like fools by the very powers we are told by some seek to control us -it is Boris Johnson who has lost control of the agenda, and undermined public trust with the revelation there was one rule for us, another for them. No conspiracy here, just managerial incompetence.

When you look at the idiots in Ottawa, read the praise from people such as Trump and Rafael Cruz, you wonder why people support the very people who had power, then lost it, whose policies have led to more deaths and suffering than was necessary during this pandemic, and whose opposition to the flawed political systems we have, would replace it with something worse. They are banning books in schools, not extending the people's right to read what they choose -as schoolchildren themselves want to choose-just as they are controlling women's bodies in States like Texas where Rapists Have Rights should be the Lone Star Motto.

But I guess these people will only truly cherish their freedom when they have lost it.

Leave Canada alone! It has enough problems to deal with.

[filghy2]

He is someone who is able to listen to absurd views and rational views and not discriminate between them. In other words he's a moron who some people think is bright.

This is the key point. His defenders would say that he is just questioning accepted wisdom and that's healthy because accepted wisdom is sometimes wrong. The problem is that it's a meaningless exercise without some criteria for determining truth. Rejecting all accepted wisdom because it comes from "the establishment" is not scepticism; it is nihilism. When people like Galileo challenged the accepted wisdom of their time they didn't do so by rejecting science, but by demonstrating that their alternative views were better science.

[filghy2]

This is the kind of thinking that puzzles me, along with the claims made by those currently enforcing the 'Siege of Ottawa' against the wishes of the people who live there.

We have our own version as well, though so far on a smaller scale and less disruptive.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-07/covid-19-vaccine-protesters-hamper-canberrans/100809408

I've always thought that the thing that would stop countries like Canada and Australia from going down the US route is that we have better political institutions, so mainstream parties would be less likely to pander to extremists because they need to win over the majority of people. But it looks like the Canadian opposition Conservative party is tempted to pander to the protestors. It will be interesting to see how public opinion plays out.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/09/problem-with-ottawas-protesters-00007272

[Stavros]

Looks like Canada and the US may need a new bridge...how easy it has been to strangle production...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/09/us-auto-plants-face-shortages-shutdowns-layoffs-protesters-block-canada-bridge

[Stavros]

Americans terrified, soup sales collapse...

https://www.acozykitchen.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/GreenGazpacho_1-1-600x730.jpg

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/02/10/01/53995557-10496117-image-a-3_1644455214503.jpg

[broncofan]

This is the key point. His defenders would say that he is just questioning accepted wisdom and that's healthy because accepted wisdom is sometimes wrong. The problem is that it's a meaningless exercise without some criteria for determining truth. Rejecting all accepted wisdom because it comes from "the establishment" is not scepticism; it is nihilism. When people like Galileo challenged the accepted wisdom of their time they didn't do so by rejecting science, but by demonstrating that their alternative views were better science.
Well said. There are bright people who can hold views with internal contradictions but they are aware of it. What is that Whitman line: to paraphrase.. very well I contradict myself. I contain multitudes. Some people contain multitudes of bullshit though. They are sucked in by the last thing they hear.

I agree it is the instinct to think the established wisdom is wrong. Believing in conspiracy theories is how a simpleton feels like they have an information edge. They don't "do their own research" which is painstaking. They arrive at their viewpoint by rejecting voluminous evidence they don't really understand. They always take a snippet of information and then claim it suggests something it plainly doesn't.

Like "Hey did you know the melting point of steel is yada yada and jet fuel burns at less than yada yada." And everyone's like "hey fella, did you know nobody claimed the world trade center actually melted into a molten blob." Did they think the building could only lose structural integrity if it was liquefied?

I want to point out how mind-boggling Rogan's view is. Paxlovid, the pfizer drug that was designed to treat rna viruses, reduced severe disease by about 88% in a clinical trial. He's promoting Ivermectin, an antiparasitic that would be repurposed and it's unclear whether it's better than placebo. Vaccines-more than 90% effective in preventing death. They don't simply fail to be bright. They're not even competent.

[broncofan]

We have our own version as well, though so far on a smaller scale and less disruptive.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-02-07/covid-19-vaccine-protesters-hamper-canberrans/100809408

I've always thought that the thing that would stop countries like Canada and Australia from going down the US route is that we have better political institutions, so mainstream parties would be less likely to pander to extremists because they need to win over the majority of people. But it looks like the Canadian opposition Conservative party is tempted to pander to the protestors. It will be interesting to see how public opinion plays out.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/09/problem-with-ottawas-protesters-00007272
Misinformation and extremism is crossing borders faster than ever. I don't understand what they are protesting against. I go to work every day. I go to the store. I eat outside at restaurants by choice but they have indoor seating. I don't even understand what's so difficult about wearing a fucking mask. I'm going through your politico article as I write this though. It's upsetting how nuts people have gotten. Oh okay workplace mandates are the sticking point. They don't have a point.

[filghy2]

What is that Whitman line: to paraphrase.. very well I contradict myself. I contain multitudes.

Are you thinking of Ralph Waldo Emerson: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds"?

[broncofan]

Are you thinking of Ralph Waldo Emerson: "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds"?
That's a good one from Emerson. I found the quote although I hope I got Whitman's intended meaning right.
https://poets.org/poem/song-myself-51

[broncofan]

In the covid thread I made a dumb joke about Eliot Spitzer's 2008 sex scandal. I then looked it up to jog my memory about it and it turns out what he did and has done since is a lot worse than I remembered so I regret that a bit. It seems he doesn't just see escorts, which I don't have a problem with morally, but that he is also an abusive person.

[Stavros]

In the covid thread I made a dumb joke about Eliot Spitzer's 2008 sex scandal. I then looked it up to jog my memory about it and it turns out what he did and has done since is a lot worse than I remembered so I regret that a bit. It seems he doesn't just see escorts, which I don't have a problem with morally, but that he is also an abusive person.


Don't worry, Broncofan, I have never heard of Spitzer.

[Stavros]

Is it just me, or do Republicans have an abnormal obsession with the Clintons? The extent of Trump's obsession with Hillary is approaching a form of psycho-social stalking, but it occurs to me that the wider Republican loathing of the Clintons goes all the way back to the 1990s. I am not defending the Clintons, but there seems to me to be something pathological about the campaigns against them, from Newton Gingrich to today. Am I missing something, or are the Clintons cursed?

[Stavros]

I guess bein' white ain't all its, er, cracked up to be....unless you live in Texas...

"the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo that ended the Mexican-American War specifically stipulated that Hispanics who became citizens be considered white, as Texas was a state where it was legal to enslave Black people. Growing up, my right-wing Ronald Reagan-loving dad used to tell me about the old saying, “if you’re white you’re all right, if you’re brown, stick around. If you’re Black, you go back,” which I took as only apocryphal until I heard a song by the bluesman Big Bill Broonzy that had the exact phrase (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0c1c0ZsTLA)." "


Keep on Tuckin' -!

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/voices-latinos-always-disagree-racial-212317955.html

[broncofan]

This tweet contains quotations from a recent Trump interview. This is why Trump was an existential threat to the US. He's a moron but he's also the most despicable person I've seen in American public life.

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1496221147729481732 (https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1496221147729481732)

[broncofan]

I won't both sides this since Trump was President and what he's done is worse but prolific tweeter AOC has tweeted nothing about this conflict and apparently hasn't tweeted the word Russia since 2019. She's an idiot.

Tulsi Gabbard? I'm not sure her political affiliation. Bernie said something negative about Russia and has now been called a "neo-liberal centrist" by many of his fans with large followings.

[blackchubby38]

I won't both sides this since Trump was President and what he's done is worse but prolific tweeter AOC has tweeted nothing about this conflict and apparently hasn't tweeted the word Russia since 2019. She's an idiot.

Tulsi Gabbard? I'm not sure her political affiliation. Bernie said something negative about Russia and has now been called a "neo-liberal centrist" by many of his fans with large followings.

Tulsi Gabbard is a Democrat and one time was accused by Hillary Clinton of being groomed as a Russian asset. Outside looking in, I just think she is someone who is going to question United States foreign policy whenever she gets the chance. Especially if its going to lead to United States armed forces going into combat.

As for Bernie, its amazing how quickly one's followers can turn on them if they say something that goes against their beliefs.

AOC probably stop tweeting about Russia around the same time the Mueller report didn't lead to Trump being impeached.

[Stavros]

I won't both sides this since Trump was President and what he's done is worse but prolific tweeter AOC has tweeted nothing about this conflict and apparently hasn't tweeted the word Russia since 2019. She's an idiot.

Tulsi Gabbard? I'm not sure her political affiliation. Bernie said something negative about Russia and has now been called a "neo-liberal centrist" by many of his fans with large followings.


Not sure why you are upset that AOC doesn't tweet about Russia, must she tweet about everything? Has she tweeted anything on Boris Johnson? He was born in her city, and if he revives his US citizenship in the future, he can run for the Presidency. From what little we get here, she seems to be good at some things, maybe lacking in others. Or, she is best known for being the target of some odious drivel from Trump and his supporters, which may explain her popularity. If Tucker Carlson spends so much time attacking her, she is clearly important to him.

As for Tulsi Gabbbard, is she important?

[broncofan]

Not sure why you are upset that AOC doesn't tweet about Russia, must she tweet about everything?
No but this is not the type of thing a U.S Rep should be silent about in my view. It strikes me as concern that if she condemns Russia she will get backlash from certain segments of the left who view condemnation of Russia or China as inherently suspicious. That bothers me. I don't think she has been silent because she has not considered the issue but is actually concerned that if she supports sanctions on Russia she will be called a warmonger.

Russia is trying to claim regions of Ukraine and is on the verge of an assault that could kill thousands of people. The right wing is trying to justify this act. Certain segments of the left are fiddling with the idea that NATO and the right share culpability. When I say certain segments of the left I mean a lot of the people who previously supported Bernie Sanders and some who supported Tulsi Gabbard. I don't think Tulsi is incredibly important but she is an example of someone who really defies easy categorization politically and has developed a cult following.

I certainly don't want U.S. troops to fight. But I am certain I support the sanctions against Russia that Biden is levying.

[broncofan]

As an addendum to the last post in case this goes to the next page I agree with Bernie Sanders' statement on this. This is not brinksmanship or incitement but multilateralism in action. The comments show that a lot of his supporters view this as a betrayal. Why?
https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/1496225554588213248

[Stavros]

No but this is not the type of thing a U.S Rep should be silent about in my view. It strikes me as concern that if she condemns Russia she will get backlash from certain segments of the left who view condemnation of Russia or China as inherently suspicious. That bothers me. I don't think she has been silent because she has not considered the issue but is actually concerned that if she supports sanctions on Russia she will be called a warmonger.

Russia is trying to claim regions of Ukraine and is on the verge of an assault that could kill thousands of people. The right wing is trying to justify this act. Certain segments of the left are fiddling with the idea that NATO and the right share culpability. When I say certain segments of the left I mean a lot of the people who previously supported Bernie Sanders and some who supported Tulsi Gabbard. I don't think Tulsi is incredibly important but she is an example of someone who really defies easy categorization politically and has developed a cult following.


I am puzzled, why woud the 'left' want to restrain themselves from criticising a regime of the kind Putin presides over? He might have been a member of the Communist Party at one time, I suspect if he was it was because of his membership of the KGB and it made sense in career terms, I doubt he ever cared one way or another for Marxism-Leninism. Moreover, of this 'left' of which you speak is anti-war, by definiton they must condemn Putin's actions.

Plus, approx. 14,000 have already been killed since the Russians annexed eastern Ukraine, including the passengers on the Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 for whom nobody has yet been held responsible.

[Stavros]

Broncofan, can you clarify a legal point please? It relates to this report on Rudolph Giuliani giving evidence to the Jan 6 Committee, but only if it does not violate 'Attorney-Client' confidentiality.

This is the passage I refer to-

"...the former president’s attorney has indicated that he will assist the select committee only if his appearance is not pursuant to his subpoena, and does not have to give records or discuss his contacts with Trump over executive and attorney-client privilege concerns.

Giuliani is prepared to make exceptions in instances where the panel can demonstrate that meetings with Trump that would have otherwise been subject to those protections might have been broken, and that the protections should not apply."
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/22/giuliani-cooperate-january-6-committee

1) Can you clarify this -am I right in saying that Trump must formally instruct, or for this evidence, have formally instructed Giuliani to act as his Attorney with an agreed fee, and that this must be documented? In other words, neither could just say 'He is my lawyer'? Is it also the case that a lawyer cannot work without charging a fee? I seem to recall there was speculation that Giuliani said he was Trump's lawyer when he was in the Ukraine when he might not have been formally instructed to act for Trump who was President at the time.

2) Is Attorney-Client 'privilege' a legal means whereby a criminal can reveal his crimes to a lawyer, knowing the lawyer will never present the evidence of crimes, or confessions to crimes to a court of law? When if ever can a lawyer be compelled to reveal to a Court what he knows a client has done, or has said.

[broncofan]

Stavros I can answer a couple of the questions off the top of my head. Other aspects of it I might have to look up.
I don't think there needs to be a contract or a fee paid for the privilege to attach (there are a few reasons for this, though a fee or contract would definitely help establish the relationship). I think what you're getting at is that someone should not be able to claim privilege from communications with a co-conspirator simply because that person happens to be an attorney.

The question is whether that person was seeking the counsel of the attorney in a professional capacity and on that subject matter. Did the attorney simply provide legal advice (and nothing more) and was he engaged by Trump as an attorney for that matter?

The attorney client privilege is waived for communications in which third parties are present. So even if they can claim some communications were privileged between them, it would not apply to anything in which a non-privileged party was in the room for.

There are exceptions to the attorney client privilege where compelled disclosure may be permitted. One is the crime fraud exception. If the attorney's services are used to conceal the commission of a crime the privilege does not apply. This would be that the attorney did not merely offer advice about what is legal or illegal but perhaps helped a client take an illegal course of action and cover his actions. https://www.justia.com/criminal/working-with-a-criminal-lawyer/the-crime-fraud-exception/

In addition to attorney client privilege there is something called the duty of confidentiality for attorneys that will often attach even to preliminary discussions between a client and his attorney. Though this also only protects information that is confidential and which no other parties are privy to.

[thombergeron]

Not content with Texas's position as merely one of the worst places in the U.S. to be a child, Governor Greg Abbott is aiming to secure the undisputed title.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2022/02/22/texas-gov-abbott-agencies-must-investigate-gender-affirming-care-for-trans-kids-as-child-abuse/

[Stavros]

Stavros I can answer a couple of the questions off the top of my head. Other aspects of it I might have to look up.
I don't think there needs to be a contract or a fee paid for the privilege to attach (there are a few reasons for this, though a fee or contract would definitely help establish the relationship). I think what you're getting at is that someone should not be able to claim privilege from communications with a co-conspirator simply because that person happens to be an attorney.


Thanks for this. I am sure I read somewhere the claim Giuliani was Trump's lawyer in the Ukraine was false because he was not being paid to be there by Trump. I am not sure we know anyway, as Trump seems to have decided to destroy documents in violation of the law to protect himself, though I assume his lawyers would have told him not to, and I assume they have their own dcumentation of their dealing with Trump when he was 'President'. As it is a law not a convetion, is this another example of Trump breaking the law with impunity?

[Stavros]

Not content with Texas's position as merely one of the worst places in the U.S. to be a child, Governor Greg Abbott is aiming to secure the undisputed title.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2022/02/22/texas-gov-abbott-agencies-must-investigate-gender-affirming-care-for-trans-kids-as-child-abuse/


The word 'abuse' is the only word that defines this, but not as Abbott intended. He seems to be like Modi, Xi and Putin, determned to use political power to impose his will on Texas. Which makes it a double dose of abuse. Can anyone stop him?

[Stavros]

If the response to Russia's invasion of the Ukraine is intensified to include an attempt to disrupt or halt its oil and gas exports, the Russians have threatened to 'turn off the gas' while the shortage of oil exports could send crude to $300 a barrel. There are several consequences here

One, is that higher prices and disruption would hurt China, dependent as it is on imports of oil and gas. It may be in a semi-state of solidarity with Russia now, but desperate measures by the Russians could force China to assess where its longer term benefits lie, though this might be regime change in Moscow as well as better ties to the rest of the world. By attemting to privilege its role as supplier, the Chinese might ask -at what cost? Or negotiate a 'special price' with Russia, to the latter's disadvantage.

Reports suggest a US team is attempting to bring Venezuela back into the tent, something Maduro for all his anti-American rhetoric would welcome, as would most people in both Venezuela and Colombia. Venezuela has vast reserves of oil, but it is classed as 'heavy oil' which for years meant it was not economical to develop, both in terms of lifting costs, and the modifications needed to refineries to process the stuff. Combined improvements in technology and a higher oil price make heavy oil profitable, thus enabling the US-Venezuela production line (Venezuela needs capital as well as expertise from outside the country) to cut out Russian oil supplies, while alternative supplies of gas to those in Russia exist but have not been exploited so far because of costs.

Iran has vast supplies of gas -could the rapprochement with Venezuela inspire a new relationshp with Iran?

Thus, the higher the price of oil, the greater the opportunity to relieve the world of Russian oil and gas = short term pain, but longer term gaiin for the non-Russian customers, but in the long term a major blow to the Russian economy.

And the obvious irony -to save the world from Russia, 'we' may need to increase our dependence on fossil fuels rather than decrese them, though one assumes at the same time the development of alternative sources of fuel will take on a new urgency.

On Venezuela's vast oil resources here-
https://www.rigzone.com/training/heavyoil/insight.asp?i_id=185

and here-
https://www.hydrocarbons-technology.com/projects/carabobo-oil-project/

[Stavros]

I don't know much about Joe Manchin, but it seems odd he is a Democrat when from what I do read, his policy preferences are solidly Republican. But it also seems that he is one of the alarming number of unintelligent Senators and Representatives in Congress these days. For this is what the man has said-

"Faced with rising gasoline prices, many Americans are now looking to switch to an electric car. But the shift away from fossil fuel vehicles has been criticized by Senator Joe Manchin (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/joe-manchin), who has said he is “very reluctant” to see the proliferation of battery-powered cars....
“I’m very reluctant to go down the path of electric vehicles,” Manchin said at the energy conference CERAWeek, held in Houston. “I’m old enough to remember standing in line in 1974 trying to buy gas – I remember those days. I don’t want to have to be standing in line waiting for a battery for my vehicle, because we’re now dependent on a foreign supply chain, mostly China.”
Manchin, who has taken more money in political donations (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/20/joe-manchin-oil-and-gas-fossil-fuels-senator) from fossil fuel interests than any other senator, also said he has “a hard time understanding” why the federal government would invest in a network of electric car charging stations, as the Biden administration aims to do.
“I’ve read history, and I remember Henry Ford inventing the Model-T, but I sure as hell don’t remember the US government building filling stations,” Manchin said to applause. “The market did that.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/15/manchin-reluctant-electric-cars-biden-climate-crisis-fight

For a man who I am told champions coal and petroleum, you have to wonder if he knows where the USA's electricity comes from, how it is generated, and what the volume of electricity is needed to power the EV's that consumers -ie, THE MARKET- want. As for the Feds providing charging points, well, why doesn't the private sector rush in to build them as Rockefeller and Ford did in those old glory days?

The man is in need of an education, but then it is probaby wasted on him, like his votes, only in the Senate, those votes matter.

"All-electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles represent a new demand for electricity, but they are not likely to strain much of our existing generation resources in the near term. Large increases in the number of these vehicles in the United States will not necessarily require the addition of new electricity-generation capacity depending on when, where, and at what power level the vehicles are charged."
https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_production.html

[Stavros]

Joe Manchin aside (see previous post), is it the case that to run for office as a Republican, it is essential for the candidate to exhibit their ignorance, as if by doing so they engage with like-minded idiots in their State or District? Do none of these people ever go to school, or what did they do when they were there? Something is seriously wrong in the USA...

Exhibit 1-
"Last year, Alabama lawmakers overturned a 30-year ban on yoga in public schools, passed originally due to the practice’s roots in the Hindu religion. James said he wants legislators to reinstate the ban, while another candidate in the GOP primary is “pro-yoga (https://www.al.com/news/2022/02/issues-aplenty-but-can-anyone-knock-off-alabama-gov-kay-ivey.html).” (Tim James wants to be Governor of Alabama, Lord help us All, or maybe Krishna?).
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/under-radar-gop-primary-could-094503899.html

Exhibit 2-

"Republican Senate candidate Herschel Walker cast doubt on the theory of evolution in recent remarks, saying the fact that apes and humans coexist disproves accepted science.
“At one time, science said man came from apes, did it not? ... If that is true, why are there still apes? Think about it,” Walker said in an appearance at Sugar Hill Church in Georgia on Sunday.
“Now you’re getting too smart for us, Herschel,” lead pastor Chuck Allen responded."
https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/herschel-walker-skeptical-evolution-why-181506142.html

Apparently this man was a 'Running Back' in American Football. Well 'Back' seems appropriate. And he's running. Maybe he should be more ambitous and run for the White House?

[broncofan]

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/04/jared-kushner-saudi-arabia-2-billion-investment

Jared Kushner's private equity fund got two billion dollars from the Saudis. No rational person would give Jared five dollars to invest when he's not even a successful real estate developer and has no experience with the kind of financial analysis that would make someone successful in private equity. It's either a payoff for services already rendered or a bribe for future services. I expect this will be investigated but will need a smoking gun like actually classified information passing hands. The kind of favoritism towards MBS that likely motivated this transaction would be more difficult to prosecute even though the impropriety is obvious.

[Stavros]

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/04/jared-kushner-saudi-arabia-2-billion-investment

Jared Kushner's private equity fund got two billion dollars from the Saudis. No rational person would give Jared five dollars to invest when he's not even a successful real estate developer and has no experience with the kind of financial analysis that would make someone successful in private equity. It's either a payoff for services already rendered or a bribe for future services. I expect this will be investigated but will need a smoking gun like actually classified information passing hands. The kind of favoritism towards MBS that likely motivated this transaction would be more difficult to prosecute even though the impropriety is obvious.

Von Tristan zu Marke ist Melot's weg...

On the one hand an amusing profile of someone who seems to fall upwards whenever they fail. The giant flop on 6th Avenue was rescued by the Govt of Qatar not long after Trump and the Saudis ganged up on them...

On the other hand the article fails to delineate the links that show this is a deal that consolidates Israel's security-von Kushner zu MBS ist Israel's weg.

What you have here is a love triangle in which Kushner seeks the financial support of Saudi Arabia which will not only benefit and expand on his own investments in Israel, but also expand on Kushner's view that nobody cares about the Palestinians and that the historic 'Arab-Israeli Conflict' can be ended with money, in the form of investments that will in effect, create a network of trade that links Israel to Saudi Arabia and the Gulf. The individuals involved in Affinity Fund Partners are thus linked to Israel- Maybe you could re-fashion this whole deal into one in which Kushner, the Saudis and Israel are just a group of Russian oligarchs divvying up the Russian and Ukrainian economy amongst themselves, with no regard for what the citizens of those countries want. I guess, since they all hate the Iranians, the deals will go through and Kushner will still be rich, and Israel secure, and the Palestinians, well -fucked.


"Apart from Kushner, there are three other directors on the fund who will also visit Israel, including Avi Berkowitz, an Israeli who served as Trump's aide and was an official representative for contacts ahead of the Abraham Accords, Brett Pearlman, a former senior analyst at the Blackstone Group who later founded and managed Elevation Partners, and Asad Naqvi, a former British partner in Apis, which provides financial services, fintech and related technologies to various sectors. The four will also meet with representatives of Israeli venture capital funds and investment funds who plan to present their portfolio companies to the new American fund, and also try to raise money from Affinity in secondary investments.

The meetings will be with companies in a variety of fields and worth, from companies valued at $300 million to unicorns worth more than $1 billion. The fund is aiming to invest in technology, cyber, fintech, healthcare, clean energy and artificial intelligence companies, as well as traditional industrial companies. It plans to invest in both late and early stage companies. The fund has no intention of meeting with Israeli entities in order to attract new investors, but only with companies in which it wants to invest itself. Another member of the fund, who is in charge of relations with Israel, is Aryeh Lightstone, former chief of staff of the U.S. ambassador to Israel, David Friedman."
Jared Kushner coming to Israel in search of tech investments | Ctech (calcalistech.com) (https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/skkd30vm9)


MBS and Biden have not talked to each other since the Inauguration in 2021, so we can't be sure that Kushner threw daddy-in-law under the bus in his deposition to the Jan 6th committee, but either way it doesn't matter if Trump gets back into the White House as this Affinity is with Israel and the richest Arabs, not Trump or the Palestinians, or the Yemeni victims of the war nobody wants to talk about. As for Israel and its 'curious' relationship with Putin's Russia, who knows, maybe ten years down the line, Affinity will have offices in Washington DC, Jerusalem, Riyadh, Abu Dhabi and Moscow?

[trish]

So relieved to wake up and find out Macron won. Democracy’s not entirely lost…yet. Now I can go about my day in ‘relative’ peace, only worrying about Ukraine, the state of LGBT people in Florida, women in Texas etc. etc.

[broncofan]

So relieved to wake up and find out Macron won. Democracy’s not entirely lost…yet.
We've been saved from fascism and the fatalism of certain factions who think there's no material difference between Macron and Le Pen. "The lesser of two evils is still evil" they say not realizing the origin of the quote is Ralph Nader and the consequences of this kind of nihilism is actually evil. The difference between Le Pen and Macron is a difference between the world being set ablaze and there still being significant problems but a chance of dealing with them.

An acquaintance of mine tried to tell me the climate change policies of the two parties is not materially different. When I asked him whether there's a difference between the U.S. being in the Paris Climate Agreement and it not being in it he said no because the Paris Climate Agreement is not sufficient. Imagine a world where degrees of change don't matter; yes there's a possibility of some kind of cliff but when you don't know exactly where that point is, some mitigation is better than none.

And yes, Florida's don't say gay law is abhorrent. Just disgraceful as is Texas' law making abortion illegal after six weeks.

[trish]

Not sure in this life if every choice isn’t one between two or more evils. Acting too slow or too little on climate change can have dire consequences, but the actions required to slow or halt the change can neither be inspired nor compelled by one leader, one party or even one group of nations. If we want to act effectively and democratically we need an educated populace, something I’m doubting these days the world will ever have.


I just always wanted to be a sparkling Disney princess dressed in pink, sitting in my tower spinning thoughts into theorems. But no, DeSantis’s is cracking down on math books as well as fantasy kingdoms and dark skinned people. There’s just no place down South for a princess to go and vote these days. That’s why I’m stayin’ North of the Mason-Dixon.

[broncofan]

People are driven to become educated about subjects they feel are of great immediacy. And yet, in the world of the pandemic people sought out information and it was often unreliable. In the case of climate change, there is only a sense of urgency among people who are already informed or take the word of the vast majority of the informed who tell them the window for acting is closing. If more people were motivated to learn about environmental science, there would still be a deluge of misinformation to overcome.

Related to this, Elon Musk wants to buy twitter because he believes that social media should operate under a principle of free speech absolutism. Twitter, in his view, is like the public square. It is a modern-day acropolis where he dreams people can exchange information in sound-bytes, through memes, and where skinny white kids are able to say the n word behind a veil of anonymity and use the kind of invective people used to call harassment. Of course social media is not like a public square because it's easier to falsify information, easier to embolden people who don't feel social pressure to be honest and decent, and misinformation can be concentrated.

In a world where even private forums don't engage in content moderation simple incorrect answers are likely to win out. I'm not saying that Elon Musk taking over twitter harkens the coming of the apocalypse but it does show how confused people are about why speech protections should mostly be used to protect people from official sanction. We are not at risk of having a ministry of information because well known falsehoods about elections or vaccines are not given space in private forums. If we can't even exclude crackpots from the conversation, we can't overcome the noise they make for long enough to have a conversation.

[MrFanti]

IMHO....Both Liberals and Conservatives have forgot that "Freedom Of Speech" also includes "freedom to disagree".

[trish]

also that it doesn’t include the freedom in incite insurrection or violence.

[Stavros]

IMHO....Both Liberals and Conservatives have forgot that "Freedom Of Speech" also includes "freedom to disagree".

You may enjoy the discussion by the brilliant, if now deceased Rick Roderick, on 'freedom to' ...timed at c27'48" (but the whole lecture is worth attention)

Rick Roderick on John Stuart Mill on Liberty [full length] - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXZhMbr4qmQ)

[broncofan]

IMHO....Both Liberals and Conservatives have forgot that "Freedom Of Speech" also includes "freedom to disagree".
If Trish were to say that the Earth is round and you were to say the Earth is flat would that be a simple difference of opinion or would one of you be wrong? I don't actually think free speech absolutism is a coherent philosophy when enforced in private settings because it forces people not to use their critical reasoning ability to discriminate between differences of opinion and factually incorrect statements. Requiring online forums to publish harmful, false information brings on an epistemological crisis because it compels people to treat bad faith statements as though they are as worthy of a place in the discourse as good faith opinions.

If someone were to assert that it's their honest opinion that the election will be held the day after it's really held, is that something someone should allow to be published? In my opinion they would have a moral obligation to censor it because it's false and will lead to people not voting. If someone says that arsenic is a treatment for covid and it's their valid opinion should that be published? What about someone saying there are 50,000 destroyed ballots in a dumpster with a Chinese shipping receipt when there's just been an attempted coup?

The idea that governments should not proscribe speech protects society enough from the slippery slope. Forcing people to publish false, hateful nonsense or even deciding to publish such nonsense because you think it provides a forum for disagreement really enables the dissemination of propaganda and pollutes the discourse. Online forums are not like a sidewalk or a public space in my view.

[broncofan]

even deciding to publish such nonsense because you think it provides a forum for disagreement really enables the dissemination of propaganda and pollutes the discourse.
To be clear, I'm not saying someone should be legally prevented from allowing toxic things to be published in a forum they own but let's stop pretending it's a public good or should be an obligation.

[Stavros]

The harm principle is a sound one, as Roderick's lecture shows. I think the difficult area is where the word 'harm' is replaced by 'hurt'. It may be morally and legally wrong for a person A to harm person B, for example by striking them with a stick and stealing their wallet. It may be morally wrong, but should it also be illegal for Person A to publicly ridicule Person B as a 'dumbass N****r'?

Political correctness is the term used used to censor public discourse where the language used is considered offensive, so the right to offend has in fact been if not abolished, then made subject to 'hate speech' in law, and may be cognizant of the prevailing public mood which I think in Europe and North America finds such language redundant, as well as hurtful.

That said, it has been quite a shock to realise that people defending a worthless jerk like Chris Rock consider his public ridicule of Jada Pinkett-Smith close to a joke or some 'light hearted' remark, in spite of the fact that the man had ridiculed the woman in public before and the Oscar night gig seemed to show some disturbance in Chris Rock's mind worthy of a long talk with a therapist. There could even be a deeper issue here if there were some evidence, for example, that Pinkett-Smith rejected any sexual advances Rock made when they were making the film 'Madagascar' suggesting Rock had spiteful reasons for insulting her in public.

The point being that instead of Chris Rock being held responsible for his offensive language and attitude, he is defended as the victim of assault, yet the right to be offensive to me was an example of where this right to offend became a right to hurt, and I don't think I can accept that. In this case, two men were compromised, and both actions require an equally robust and negative judgment.

[Stavros]

I don't know much about Elon Musk, other than that he owns a car company, has been on The Big Bang Theory and has funded some sort of space travel. If he has or can raise over $40 billion to buy Twitter, the real question is why can't he raise say $5 billion to end homelessness in San Francisco or for that matter California, as $5 billion should be enough. I think if Americans had the balls to do so, they would take away all the Billions owned by these people, say leave them $1 billion and take the rest and spend it ending homelessness, poverty and unemployment. Musk doesn't need $40 billion, he can even survive on $4 million or 1, so take it away from him and do something useful with it. Just as every millionaire 'Christian Pastor' should give away every cent they have earned. Boom!

[broncofan]

Anything that is privately owned is usually incentivized to maintain decent ethics because people can find alternatives if they permit harassment, racism, or dangerous misinformation. Elon Musk has put almost no thought into what his construction of free speech means because he is now saying that he thinks speech should be permitted as long as it's legal. Yet what is legal varies a great deal depending on where you are.

Let me put this bluntly: if he wants to turn a forum that is already too permissive of bigotry into a place where people send Jews pictures of ovens with a trail of dollar bills leading to it, why would people post there? Why would anyone allow themselves to be subjected to harassment, much of which is legal. By the way, I'm not saying Jews are a special case. And still I received an email from twitter once telling me that user "diejewdie" did not violate their terms of service. I'm sure many people have stories like this. What if this was no longer something that slipped through their algorithm but was actually permitted?

Gab is already a twitter alternative that all of the Nazis moved to as a protest to twitter. Public personalities are probably not going to flee right away but if Musk actually allows the kind of harassment that goes on at Gab, people will leave.

But more than that, if you allow it to become a cesspool of conspiracy theories and misinformation about important civic matters, it will cause harm. Elon Musk is an idiot. At the beginning of covid he said he thinks coronavirus worry is overrated. Here we are 7 million deaths later. He said it would be over by that summer. He called a hero who saved children in Thailand "pedo guy" because the person didn't think Musk's contraption to enter the caves would work (the device looked like a coffin and probably would have served as one). He's a piece of shit.

[MrFanti]

If Trish were to say that the Earth is round and you were to say the Earth is flat would that be a simple difference of opinion or would one of you be wrong? I don't actually think free speech absolutism is a coherent philosophy when enforced in private settings because it forces people not to use their critical reasoning ability to discriminate between differences of opinion and factually incorrect statements. Requiring online forums to publish harmful, false information brings on an epistemological crisis because it compels people to treat bad faith statements as though they are as worthy of a place in the discourse as good faith opinions.

If someone were to assert that it's their honest opinion that the election will be held the day after it's really held, is that something someone should allow to be published? In my opinion they would have a moral obligation to censor it because it's false and will lead to people not voting. If someone says that arsenic is a treatment for covid and it's their valid opinion should that be published? What about someone saying there are 50,000 destroyed ballots in a dumpster with a Chinese shipping receipt when there's just been an attempted coup?

The idea that governments should not proscribe speech protects society enough from the slippery slope. Forcing people to publish false, hateful nonsense or even deciding to publish such nonsense because you think it provides a forum for disagreement really enables the dissemination of propaganda and pollutes the discourse. Online forums are not like a sidewalk or a public space in my view.
I'll say it again...
BOTH sides can't stand when someone has a different opinion/view than themselves.

Hence why BOTH sides are vying for CONTROL.

Part of FREE speech is to be able to DISAGREE.
Both sides have side-stepped that or have forgot it.

It's also a slippery slope when government controls media (See Cuba/China/Russia/Venezuela/N Korea/WW-2 Germany)

[broncofan]

I'll say it again...
BOTH sides can't stand when someone has a different opinion/view than themselves.

Hence why BOTH sides are vying for CONTROL.

Part of FREE speech is to be able to DISAGREE.
Both sides have side-stepped that or have forgot it.

It's also a slippery slope when government controls media (See Cuba/China/Russia/Venezuela/N Korea/WW-2 Germany)
You don't have to say it again because you didn't say anything to begin with.
A. The government in the US has never controlled twitter. The question is whether misinformation and harassment should be allowed on the site by the people who OWN and MANAGE IT. The government has nothing to do with this discussion.
B. Certain things are not matters of opinion but matters of fact. It's not stating an opinion to assert nefarious things happened and then provide no evidence of it because none exists (ie the election fraud garbage). That's called lying. In a bunch of the examples you provided tyranny was actually enabled by systematic lying.

Also, just to move on since I know you're going to repeat yourself, Tesla has lost over 110 billion dollars of its market cap. The market cap is the total value of all the stock traded in a company. Tesla is trading at a PE ratio of 118, which means that if you buy Tesla and they paid out every penny of earnings to shareholders as dividends, you'd receive less than 1% of what you paid. The market must have built in assumptions about a fast growth rate for the company. It will be interesting to see what that's based on.

[filghy2]

Anything that is privately owned is usually incentivized to maintain decent ethics because people can find alternatives if they permit harassment, racism, or dangerous misinformation. Elon Musk has put almost no thought into what his construction of free speech means because he is now saying that he thinks speech should be permitted as long as it's legal. Yet what is legal varies a great deal depending on where you are.

As you suggest, minimal moderation is not going to be as easy as he seems to think. If Twitter turns into a troll-ridden cesspool that will be very off-putting for users and advertisers. He is probably not doing it for financial reasons, but he will still need to service his borrowings after paying 38% above market valuation for a company that is not profitable.

For a supposed business genius, Musk does not have great record of actually generating profits. Telsa made profits only in the past 2 years and his other projects are still making losses. I wonder how long financiers will continue to indulge his erratic behaviour, vanity projects and personal fixations? Tesla stocks (on which the Twitter financing is secured) have fallen since the announcement so it seems there are concerns already.

[filghy2]

But more than that, if you allow it to become a cesspool of conspiracy theories and misinformation about important civic matters, it will cause harm.

This is a good recent article on how social media have contributed to the breakdown on social cohesion and trust in institutions. In particular, it encourages aggressive/extreme views at the expense of more moderate views and promotes tribalistic mob dynamics and confirmation bias.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/

The textbook model, in which the unfettered market achieves the best outcomes because good products outcompete bad products, clearly does not apply to the market for information. For most products, people can generally make reasonable judgements about how well the product performs. This does not work for information because many people lack objective criteria for sorting good information from bad, and are influenced by various biases. This was less of a problem in the past because information was filtered through a limited number of mass media gatekeepers, but the digital age has led to a fragmentation of sources.

[Stavros]

I'll say it again...
BOTH sides can't stand when someone has a different opinion/view than themselves.

Hence why BOTH sides are vying for CONTROL.

Part of FREE speech is to be able to DISAGREE.
Both sides have side-stepped that or have forgot it.

It's also a slippery slope when government controls media (See Cuba/China/Russia/Venezuela/N Korea/WW-2 Germany)

1) I can't think of any country whose Government does not limit the media in terms of an absolute right of expression. The mere fact that it is illegal to encourage criminal behaviour suggests that there will always be legal constraints on the media. Moreover, I think most people if asked, would agree that this is a good thing.

2) The argument at issue here is not so much about content, but form, and instead of using the 'relative' concept, think in terms of what has been called 'Equal Validity'.

The assumption here is that two contradictory statements are equally valid: Abortion would be a fair topic to discuss. But Abortion appears to be a good example because of its complexity, and even then the validity of one argument can, it seems to me, only be valid if those opposed to it agree that legal as well as moral rights are taken away from the citizen in order to 'preserve life'. The validity of one side of the argument, thus depends on the denial of the other, but where this denial in reality is more than a difference of opinion, but impacts the human subject in real time, and in terms of the practice of the law. Moreover, denial of abortion can in some instances, cause harm to the pregnant woman, so the 'free from harm' argument with regard to the foetus suggests either that the pregnant woman's value is diminished by her foetus, or that the argument is so flawed that it cannot be right.

But think of the statement 'The Earth is Flat' -is the disagreement in fact two sides of an 'equally valid' claim? If science can prove the Earth is not flat, surely there is no equality in the claim that it is? On this basis, the Equal Validity argument is without merit.
There is an interesting discussion of this in a review of Boghossian's book Fear of Knowledge-
Fear of Knowledge: Against Relativism and Constructivism | Reviews | Notre Dame Philosophical Reviews | University of Notre Dame (https://ndpr.nd.edu/reviews/fear-of-knowledge-against-relativism-and-constructivism/)


3) The Elite, not the Social Construction of Reality. Rather than the more familiar 'social construction of reality' I want to suggest that most of our dominant discourses in politics and philosophy have been created by elites -not just western philosophy. It was sort of amusing to see Boris Johnson in India having a red dot painted onto his brow, being the signifier of a Brahmin, for what other caste could he be in a Hindu context? The point is that I have taken up Derrida again, and can now see how he argues that so many real people have been left out of the dominant discourses, or 'marginalized' that the 'disappearance of humanity' that you find in the philosophies of Nietzsche through Heidegger to Derrida expresses the way in which people can often 'see' the world they live in and assume they are unequal and unrepresented because they just ain't worth it. It is the link between Marx and the present, and the prevailing idea that as long as elites determine the discourse, real change will not happen. It also explains why there has been so much hostility to the idea of being transgendered, as well as its real political challenges, in schools, in sports -the existence of a gender that cannot be simply defined in terms of 'Either/Or' or which insists on being an additional category, or a spectrum of categories, challenges the vertical control of the narrative as well as its legal forms, just as Critical Race Theory challenges these structures to both acknowledge the way they are shaped by Race, and do something to dismantle them.

These ideas, about what has been repressed, excluded, pushed to the margins, for the benefit of a few, emerges from this fascinating lecture, not as forbidding as it might seem-

307 Derrida and the Ends of Man (Rick Roderick) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg4s6d40OlQ)

[trish]

Sometimes people are so desperate to persuade others that they resort to lies, slander and deliberate misinformation. They say things they don’t even believe because they think those lies support their position and will help win others to their side. When you’ve lost this much intellectual integrity you’ve lost the right to claim the ears of your fellow citizens. Once you lose the attention of the intellectually honest, you limit your audience to those who are already on your side. There is no need to persuade them…they only need to know the new lies that are to be spread today.

[broncofan]

For most products, people can generally make reasonable judgements about how well the product performs. This does not work for information because many people lack objective criteria for sorting good information from bad, and are influenced by various biases. This was less of a problem in the past because information was filtered through a limited number of mass media gatekeepers, but the digital age has led to a fragmentation of sources.
This is a useful way to think about it. The other thing about information is it's not clear people are even attempting to sort their information based on accuracy. I suppose that's why you mention biases.

Do people want to be informed or entertained? Do they want to be outraged or frightened? The outrage works best if they tell themselves they're reading the truth, but also if what they're reading is selected to heighten that outrage or is simply untrue. The whole idea that people can hear every viewpoint and decide what is true depends on people actually wanting to listen to every viewpoint instead of just the ones that trigger the right part of their brain.

The word gatekeeper is often used negatively to imply a paternalism or an attempt to filter information in a way that might keep people in the dark. But it used to be that at least there were people making some judgements about what is credible and what is not which I think is preferable though we're not going back entirely.

Finally, I am interested in following Tesla stock simply because it will be interesting to see what happens if earnings growth isn't consistent in the next five years. It's not going to continue to trade at 184 times earnings (the site that said 118 used ebitda for the ratio which looked better for Tesla) if their earnings are flat. Musk's net worth is tied to the price of his stock, the stock is trading on great expectations, and the company's CEO is a very public clown. It will be interesting to see though I'm sure he'll be fine...

It is kind of an interesting strategy though to sell cars that are environmentally friendly and then clearly cater to people who are less environmentally conscious politically (he's retweeting Mike Cernovich on twitter).

[Stavros]

This is one of the best expositions of CRT applied to the law I have seen or read. The keywords are 'Preferential', 'Colour Blindness', 'Affirmative Action', 'Asymmetrical', with some fascinating insights into Plessy-v-Ferguson, Martin Luther King's 1963 speech at the climax of the March on Washington, and some brutal comments on the law....and it's not too long.

Kimberlé Crenshaw, "Race, Gender, Inequality and Intersectionality" - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNKbGFoYC1Q)

[filghy2]

It is kind of an interesting strategy though to sell cars that are environmentally friendly and then clearly cater to people who are less environmentally conscious politically (he's retweeting Mike Cernovich on twitter).

I guess you don't necessarily need to believe in something in order to make money from it. That said, it doesn't seem like a good strategy to antagonise your customer base by becoming too publicly associated with right-wing views.

I don't think there is much doubt that the market for electric vehicles is going to grow strongly. The question is what will happen to Tesla's market share once the established manufacturers get into EVs in a bigger way.

[broncofan]

I don't want to read any more about this disgusting human being who went to Buffalo to shoot African Americans at a grocery store and murdered 10 people.

He wrote a manifesto, which I also don't want to read, and the fact that he may have live streamed his shooting is repulsive beyond words. The forums he posted on are littered with the kind of stuff that will inevitably be in his demented manifesto. Again, I don't think it's an acceptable thing to facilitate discussions among white supremacists as they share their hateful ideas and feed off of each other's stupidity. You can't keep people from talking but you don't have to make it easier for every hateful person to find their group of likeminded haters and conspire to commit similar acts of mayhem and murder.

[Stavros]

I don't want to read any more about this disgusting human being who went to Buffalo to shoot African Americans at a grocery store and murdered 10 people.

He wrote a manifesto, which I also don't want to read, and the fact that he may have live streamed his shooting is repulsive beyond words. The forums he posted on are littered with the kind of stuff that will inevitably be in his demented manifesto. Again, I don't think it's an acceptable thing to facilitate discussions among white supremacists as they share their hateful ideas and feed off of each other's stupidity. You can't keep people from talking but you don't have to make it easier for every hateful person to find their group of likeminded haters and conspire to commit similar acts of mayhem and murder.

Your anger is justified, and you have not lost the moral argument. But you have lost the process by which laws are made, and in which the Constitution is used to justify an extension, not a reduction of the firearms that can be legally obtained, or for those determined enough, illegally obtained. There is a long list of mass murders, be they targeted at people because they are Gay, Hispanic, Black or Asian, and it is therefore no surprise that the teenager in this case says he is not guilty, because in his eyes, I daresay he doesn't believe he has committed a crime.

The States you read about are on the road to independence, and there is nothing you can do about it. States Rights is no longer the base of local decision, but the precursor to State Independence or so much Autonomy Idaho may as well declare itself to be a separate country. This could just be a phase the US is going through, but who is going to reverse the process that is energising individuals to take the law into their own hands, and how can it be achieved when the Supreme Court is now dedicated to returning most if not all decisions before it, back to the State they came from?

More people are going to die. And is it not the same people who say they are 'Pro-Life' who defend the guns that kill?

[Stavros]

Last night Channel 4 in the UK aired a profile of Elon Musk. I admit I knew next to nothing about him so I was surprised to find out he was born in South Africa, but not surprised to discover he doesn't do failure, and takes a dim view of anyone who criticises his companies, especially if they work in them. What struck me most about him, is not so much his enthusiasm for space travel and the plain stupid idea that humans can populate Mars, but that I wonder if he has chosen a project that is not that difficult to achieve.

Think about it, once you have the machines and the fuel to get humans to Mars and back, all you need is a safe network of domes within which humans can live without having to wear specially designed suits. Setting aside accidents which I am sure will happen, and unforeseen environmental impacts on such a planet, as per The Martian, the project is not that hard to achieve.

Now compare the Mars missions with something closer to home: Homelessness. I wonder, does Musk not address a problem he can see every day if he lives in LA or San Francisco, because it appears to be a problem without a solution that does not bear with it the accolades that one assumes will accompany a 'manned' mission to Mars?

It has been calculated that the cost of ending homelessness in the US is $20 billion, so why don't America's billionaires agree to chip in a billion of their own money to end it? The stats are there, the justification is there, the pay-off would not just be the end of the visible signs of failure , but become part of a success story in which people without a home have a home in which they can live with dignity and one hopes, turn their lives around from whatever it is that has left them on the streets.

Maybe Musk should be more concerned with Main St than Mars. Or maybe he doesn't care.

Stats here-

"According to the Department of Housing and Urban Development, it would cost $20 billion to end homelessness in the United States. That is a big number, yes, but let’s put it into perspective:



Americans spend $19 billion (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/30/climate/nyt-climate-newsletter-energy-vampires.html) a year on unplugged appliances.
Americans spend more than $35 billion (https://runrepeat.com/gym-membership-statistics) a year on gym memberships.
The US government spent around $718 billion (https://www.statista.com/statistics/272473/us-military-spending-from-2000-to-2012/) on its military in 2019 alone."
How Much Would It Cost To End Homelessness In America? (globalgiving.org) (https://www.globalgiving.org/learn/how-much-would-it-cost-to-end-homelessness-in-america/#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20Department%20of,ho melessness%20in%20the%20United%20States.)

[Stavros]

"Former President Donald Trump (https://www.cnn.com/specials/politics/president-donald-trump-45), in a series of posts on his Truth Social platform Wednesday morning, encouraged Pennsylvania Senate candidate Mehmet Oz to "declare victory" in the Republican primary despite being deadlocked in a two-way contest (https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/17/politics/pennsylvania-north-carolina-primary-election/index.html) with former hedge fund manager David McCormick."Dr. Oz should declare victory," the former President wrote of his endorsed candidate, instructing him to take a page from Trump's own playbook in 2020, when he declared "Frankly, we did win this election" while votes were still being counted."
Trump encourages Dr. Oz to declare victory in too-close-to-call Pennsylvania Senate race - CNNPolitics (https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/18/politics/trump-dr-oz-pa-senate-primary/index.html)

Maybe best to scrap voting altogether, and appoint all the Senators and Representatives. Who should do this? Hmmm..The Wizard of Oz?

[broncofan]

Elon Musk owns a big chunk of a company that made about 6 billion dollars last year. The reason I put it that way is because the market cap of Tesla has ranged from 1 trillion dollars to about 650 billion dollars. And not to be pedantic but the value of a company if one isn't hoping to sell at an inflated price is the income its assets produce over time or the liquidation value of its assets if it's not a profitable company. So he does own something very valuable just based on what Tesla sells. But man he is an incredible buffoon and is behaving like an incredible buffoon every day.

He has recently been accused of offering a flight attendant on a private jet a pony in exchange for sexual favors. His response is that it's a liberal attack on him. It is so obviously the Trump playbook and such a childish non-response to the revelation that he paid a woman 250,000 dollars not to sue him and not to talk about why she's getting the money.

Musk is becoming a right wing cult figure and it's actually not hard to figure out why. People on the left will not worship him or tell him his ideas are worthwhile when they're facile and lame. People on the right will worship a man with money. But I've asked it before, who on the left who is in the market for an electric car would buy a tesla? The problem is that enough people will and the company does not have to trade at inflated valuations for him to be very very rich and obnoxious.

[broncofan]

I thought about buying put options on Tesla a month ago. But since I don't have any experience pricing options or trading options I didn't do it. But I looked at the price of the options with various expiration periods. Bill Gates had a short position in Tesla, which means he's done reasonably well in a bad market.

[MrFanti]

Elon Musk
I think it's hilarious to watch the whole thing unfold from both sides....

At first he was the darling of the left. He and his Tesla, Liberals loved him and Conservatives hated him.
Now, Liberals can't stand him and Conservatives love him!

Big question now is: Are Liberals who worshipped him going to sell their Tesla's now?

[Stavros]

I thought about buying put options on Tesla a month ago. But since I don't have any experience pricing options or trading options I didn't do it. But I looked at the price of the options with various expiration periods. Bill Gates had a short position in Tesla, which means he's done reasonably well in a bad market.

The only reason I would buy stock in Tesla is to make money, on the basis that over the next five year the company will face more competition, and be vulnerable to a takeover -that's where you make the money, on the share price you are offered by Ford or whoever is taking over, the main caveat being that Tesla's share price might have fallen so the offer would have to reflect the value of the company, not just its share price. I think when the price is right or the conditions favourable, Musk will sell up to fund some other venture, probably mining on the moon, Total Recall-type jaunts to Mars -the real one or a fake one, but definitely not ending homelessness in San Francisco, or LA, or Fremont.

Musk has said he is opposed to subsidies, but Tesla would probably not exist without them, so Tesla is little different from Chinese companies subsidized by the State. Entrepreneurs in Free markets? Ha-ha.

FT has been doing a survey -the first link is on the EV market, the second an intriguing assessment of how 'green' the EV is, and right now, not so Green, and one doesn't envy the people of the Democratic Republic of Congo which produced most of the world's Cobalt essential for EVs -they have been screwed over so many times it is hard to imagine them benefiting from the trade, though someone else will.

Tesla and subsidies
Tesla's dirty little secret: Its net profit doesn't come from selling cars (mercurynews.com) (https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/02/01/teslas-dirty-little-secret-its-net-profit-doesnt-come-from-selling-cars/)

Electric vehicles: the revolution is finally here | Financial Times (ft.com) (https://www.ft.com/content/fb4d1d64-5d90-4e27-b77f-6e221bc02696)

How green is your electric vehicle? (ft.com) (https://ig.ft.com/electric-car/)

[blackchubby38]

Last night Channel 4 in the UK aired a profile of Elon Musk. I admit I knew next to nothing about him so I was surprised to find out he was born in South Africa, but not surprised to discover he doesn't do failure, and takes a dim view of anyone who criticises his companies, especially if they work in them. What struck me most about him, is not so much his enthusiasm for space travel and the plain stupid idea that humans can populate Mars, but that I wonder if he has chosen a project that is not that difficult to achieve.

Think about it, once you have the machines and the fuel to get humans to Mars and back, all you need is a safe network of domes within which humans can live without having to wear specially designed suits. Setting aside accidents which I am sure will happen, and unforeseen environmental impacts on such a planet, as per The Martian, the project is not that hard to achieve.

Now compare the Mars missions with something closer to home: Homelessness. I wonder, does Musk not address a problem he can see every day if he lives in LA or San Francisco, because it appears to be a problem without a solution that does not bear with it the accolades that one assumes will accompany a 'manned' mission to Mars?

It has been calculated that the cost of ending homelessness in the US is $20 billion, so why don't America's billionaires agree to chip in a billion of their own money to end it? The stats are there, the justification is there, the pay-off would not just be the end of the visible signs of failure , but become part of a success story in which people without a home have a home in which they can live with dignity and one hopes, turn their lives around from whatever it is that has left them on the streets.

Maybe Musk should be more concerned with Main St than Mars. Or maybe he doesn't care.

Stats here-

"According to the Department of Housing and Urban Development, it would cost $20 billion to end homelessness in the United States. That is a big number, yes, but let’s put it into perspective:



Americans spend $19 billion (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/30/climate/nyt-climate-newsletter-energy-vampires.html) a year on unplugged appliances.
Americans spend more than $35 billion (https://runrepeat.com/gym-membership-statistics) a year on gym memberships.
The US government spent around $718 billion (https://www.statista.com/statistics/272473/us-military-spending-from-2000-to-2012/) on its military in 2019 alone."
How Much Would It Cost To End Homelessness In America? (globalgiving.org) (https://www.globalgiving.org/learn/how-much-would-it-cost-to-end-homelessness-in-america/#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20Department%20of,ho melessness%20in%20the%20United%20States.)


Americans spend 35 million dollars a year in gym memberships, yet we are the fattest nation in the world. Go figure.

Lets say hypothetically Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, and Mark Zuckerberg each contributed 5 billion dollars to fight homelessness in America. Are they contributing the money to the cities where homelessness is a problem and letting those local governments use that money as how they see fit. Or are they financing a private organization that will be in charge of building affordable housing, providing mental health services, sending drug addicts and alcoholics to rehab, and creating job training programs. Because to tackle a problem like homelessness, I think there has to be a cooperative effort between both the private and public sector. Especially since the latter hasn't been able to solve the problem on its own or in certain cases has made it worse.

For instance like what happened recently here in NYC. Apparently there were 2,000 vacant apartments run by the city that were specifically earmarked for homeless families. But because of staff shortages, a cumbersome application process and the typical red tape, those apartments were never filled. So instead of going to homeless shelters and screening/selecting 1,500 families and 500 single adults to house in those apartments, a committee is going to hold hearings next month to see why there was a problem in the first place. You know instead of being proactive and trying to solve the problem.

As someone who routinely reads the medical records of homeless people, along with what I see on a regular basis on my commute to work, there are going to be few individuals who are going to need long term treatment in a mental health facility before being placed in supportive housing where they can receive it as an outpatient. I know the words "mental institution" bring up memories of a past where patients were treated inhumanely. But I think we come along way since then and know more about how to treat mental illness than just giving a person shock therapy. So the question becomes once again who is in charge of running a facility like that and who would be the most effective at it.

Finally, I have never been someone who thought like a fiscal conservative. Having said that, with all the money that has been spent in the past two years when it comes to the fight against Covid and the war in Ukraine, I have been wondering not about the amount of money that is being spent, but if there is a breaking point when that bill is going to come due. Also when I hear someone say, its going to cost x amount of dollars to solve a particular problem, I'm starting to wonder how did they come up with that particular figure and why is it going to cost that much.

[Stavros]

Your fascinating post raises two important issues, around what I would call 'Intelligence' and 'Delivery'. In the first case, as you raise the question, where does the intelligence come from to quantify the cost of ending homelessness, or for that matter the cost of not ending it? Some answers may be in the links below to the articles on Finland, which claims to have solved most of its homelessness problem, you may already know about it.
Housing is a human right: How Finland is eradicating homelessness | CBC Radio (https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sunday/the-sunday-edition-for-january-26-2020-1.5429251/housing-is-a-human-right-how-finland-is-eradicating-homelessness-1.5437402)
Finland ends homelessness and provides shelter for all in need (scoop.me) (https://scoop.me/housing-first-finland-homelessness/)
'It’s a miracle': Helsinki's radical solution to homelessness | Cities | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/jun/03/its-a-miracle-helsinkis-radical-solution-to-homelessness)


The second is a phenomenon you refer to which we have in the UK, and that is the poor record on 'Delivery' by Central and Local Government. It is quite dispiriting to visit a country like Germany where everything seems to work, not because it does all the time, but because across a wide range of issues in housing, transport and the environment, there are structures and systems in place that are accountable to local people and which the authorities fund, and most of the time they deliver what they are supposed to. Talking to Germans, their concerns are not so much about public services but issues such as immigration.

Consider that in France, Italy, Germany and Spain there are high-speed rail links between major cities, and that these have most of the time been completed on time and without going over the budget, the link between Madrid and Seville is one good example. The line is 472 km where in the UK the high-speed rail link from London to Birmingham is 215km and after 11 years of the project has yet to lay more than a mile of track, while costs have escalated vastly from the original figure, and the proposal to extend the link to Manchester has been dropped -how can Spain do something we can't? And as the link shows, the US is also spending vast amounts of money on what may become 'forever projects', if that is not too cynical.
New Starts: Spain’s Dirt-Cheap High-Speed Rail, Upgrading Toronto Commuter Rail, NYC Elevator Woes (nextcity.org) (https://nextcity.org/urbanist-news/spain-high-speed-train-toronto-commuter-new-york-elevators#:~:text=Ranging%20from%206%20million%20e uros,owned%20infrastructure%20manager%20ADIF%20fou nd.)

Covid has been a lamentable example of Delivery failure. Boris Johnson may brag about the speed and efficiency of the vaccine development and its nationwide distribution, but most of that success was down to non-government organizations or the NHS. His own Government was not only slow to react, but failed to incorporate the lessons of Exercise Cygnus that was a trial run for an epidemic -so there were major supply chain problems with PPE, the Test and Trace system that cost staggering sums of money didn't work when it was first implemented, and a member of the Treasury team resigned in disgust earlier this year at the billions of pounds lost to fraud from people claiming money from a Govt that couldn't stop giving it away.

I don't know how we ended up in 2022 after a century or more of public service, with such dismal and costly failures. I think it feeds into the general view some have the Govt is not the solution to the problem. The perception here, for example, is that however well-intentioned they are, Biden and Harris can't deliver, either because of a hostile Congress, or because they don't know how. Is there a paralysis of policy implementation? I don't know, but the general feeling is that things don't work anymore, and we can't keep blaming Covid. Brexit has cost this country billions, but where's the debate on that?

My other point about the Billionaires is merely to register my 'disappointment' that they are sitting on vast caches of wealth but either do not invest in the economy and jobs -or, as in the UK the preferred investments for Hedge Funds seems to be property and restaurants- while Elon Musk proposing to throw money down the Martian hole is beyond contemptible. There are times when a hitherto unknown Trotskyist in me thinks 'take it all away from him, and give it to the workers'.

[Stavros]

I see Peter Navarro has been indicted, and complains, bitterly, " “Who are these people? This is not America. I was with distinguished public servants for four years. Nobody ever questioned my ethics.”", but wonder, what did he actually do when he was in the White House where I read his job was " to "defend and serve American workers and domestic manufacturers. (https://www.whitehouse.gov/people/peter-navarro/)" " for which he was paid £183,000 pa. And the man has a PhD from Harvard!

I wonder too what Kellyanne Conway ($183,000) actually achieved in four years, her job being described as "she advises the president, tweets a lot (https://twitter.com/KellyannePolls?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Es erp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor), and makes television appearances to defend the administration"...

The list of adviser's and their salaries is in this link-
Meet Trump's 22 Highest-Paid Staffers, Who All Earn $183,000 + a Year (businessinsider.com) (https://www.businessinsider.com/highest-paid-trump-white-house-staffers-2019-7?r=US&IR=T#peter-k-navarro-assistant-to-the-president-for-trade-and-manufacturing-policy-183000-15)

[Stavros]

Watching the proceedings of the House Committee on Jan 6 -I have watched all of it so far- I was struck yesterday by the outrageous John Eastman, who managed to maintain the fiction that Pence had legal means to either discount the electoral college votes or suspend the process of certification even when he knew it was, well, fiction -the question being, how did this man ever get into the Oval Office?

He strikes me, along with Sidney Powell and Lin Wood, as an ambulance chaser, though he clerked for the elderly and portentously slow Judge Luttig, but I then I assume lots of other lawyers have. From what others say, Eastman stayed in place because he was telling Trump what the idiot wanted to hear, given Trump has never read the Constitution and doesn't understand it even when it is explained to him, but how did he get there? As it appears Rudolph Giuliani is a partner in this crime, was it Giuliani who brought Eastman into the process? Looks like they are both going to need some special counsel, IF the DoJ finally decides to prosecute.

As for Cry-Baby Trump, he is apparently mad at being ignored by the Committee and wants to appear. Even Eastman I think would say, 'Don't think that's a good idea, boss' -but it would be fun to watch, no? If it were not for the very real violence with which Trump is associated -he has brought more violence into public life than any other President- this would have been a farce. But it's deadly serious.

Don't know if Saul could have done a better job than Eastman, but maybe Better Call 911 on these guys.

Trump lawyer John Eastman sought presidential pardon after January 6 | January 6 hearings | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/16/trump-lawyer-john-eastman-presidential-pardon)

One other thing -what's this thing for Prayer Americans have? Who cares what prayers are said, as if in citing them the public are moved to tears on the side of Republicans who for 4 years before Jan 6 were 'in the loop' as far as Trump goes?

[Stavros]

We have a problem in the UK with the Empire, as few people can agree on how to define it, judge it, remember it, or teach it. Compare our problem, which at best means removing statues of people locals know little or nothing about, to the Rape State of Texas, as a warning of where this segment of the US is heading to- it may not become law, but is redolent of the times in which extremists are moving from the fringe to the centre ground of politics-

"Racial justice advocates on Thursday denounced a proposal by a panel of Texas educators to describe slavery as "involuntary relocation" in the state's revised second-grade social studies curriculum as part of an effort to comply with a law restricting how the United States' history of white supremacy is taught.
The Texas Tribune reports (https://www.texastribune.org/2022/06/30/texas-slavery-involuntary-relocation/) a working group of nine educators proposed the change as the Texas State Board of Education considers curriculum changes in the wake of the passage of what critics have called (https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2022/02/21/texas-lt-govs-pledge-end-tenure-over-crt-new-low) the "white discomfort" law."
Texas Panel Denounced Over Attempt to Rebrand Slavery as 'Involuntary Relocation' (commondreams.org) (https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/07/01/texas-panel-denounced-over-attempt-rebrand-slavery-involuntary-relocation)

[blackchubby38]

You know, I can't help but to think this some sort of poetic justice.

NYC man accused of smearing feces on woman’s face has own face scalded with boiling water in jail


www.yahoo.com/news/nyc-man-accused-smearing-feces-130655670.html

[KnightHawk 2.0]

You know, I can't help but to think this some sort of poetic justice.

NYC man accused of smearing feces on woman’s face has own face scalded with boiling water in jail


www.yahoo.com/news/nyc-man-accused-smearing-feces-130655670.htmlCompletely agree it is.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Watching the proceedings of the House Committee on Jan 6 -I have watched all of it so far- I was struck yesterday by the outrageous John Eastman, who managed to maintain the fiction that Pence had legal means to either discount the electoral college votes or suspend the process of certification even when he knew it was, well, fiction -the question being, how did this man ever get into the Oval Office?

He strikes me, along with Sidney Powell and Lin Wood, as an ambulance chaser, though he clerked for the elderly and portentously slow Judge Luttig, but I then I assume lots of other lawyers have. From what others say, Eastman stayed in place because he was telling Trump what the idiot wanted to hear, given Trump has never read the Constitution and doesn't understand it even when it is explained to him, but how did he get there? As it appears Rudolph Giuliani is a partner in this crime, was it Giuliani who brought Eastman into the process? Looks like they are both going to need some special counsel, IF the DoJ finally decides to prosecute.

As for Cry-Baby Trump, he is apparently mad at being ignored by the Committee and wants to appear. Even Eastman I think would say, 'Don't think that's a good idea, boss' -but it would be fun to watch, no? If it were not for the very real violence with which Trump is associated -he has brought more violence into public life than any other President- this would have been a farce. But it's deadly serious.

Don't know if Saul could have done a better job than Eastman, but maybe Better Call 911 on these guys.

Trump lawyer John Eastman sought presidential pardon after January 6 | January 6 hearings | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/16/trump-lawyer-john-eastman-presidential-pardon)

One other thing -what's this thing for Prayer Americans have? Who cares what prayers are said, as if in citing them the public are moved to tears on the side of Republicans who for 4 years before Jan 6 were 'in the loop' as far as Trump goes?
The Attention Seeking Orange Clown can throw all the tantrums he wants,but the January 6 Committee will be better off not having him appear before them and turning the hearings into political theater and clown show.

[Stavros]

Has anyone tried to calculate the number of lawyers who have done work for Trump? He is well known for his obsession with litigation -not quite the same as an obsession with the law, as much of his litigation seems designed to deter the process of law- but often when I browse stories about his latest excursion into the court, the name of the lawyer is new.

Has he broken an American record?

[Stavros]

What do Americans want?

Trump says the Federal Dept of Education should be scrapped if the curriculum is going to teach children to 'hate America', to suggest or dictate that Men can be Pregnant, that it is a 'Marxist' project. Just as one -I forget if he was a Senator or a House Rep- said it was right to 'return' Abortion to the States so they can decide.

But then a Referendum in Kansas showed people want Abortion in their State. And is it the case that American parents do not want their children to be taught what Slavery was, how it began, developed and ended? Do parents in the former Confederate States want their children to be taught that the South never surrendered, that Appomattox was 'fake news'? Do most Americans want to reverse the right of same-sex couples to marry?

In reality, what has been happening is a Rejection of Federal Govt by Republican States, and further, an attempt to diminish or render irrelevant both houses of Congress -States Rights becoming State Power or State Autonomy. This apparent rejection of Federalism can be found in statements by Senator Graham, assuming his views to be worth reporting.

But the key question is, if Americans, individuals or parents, are asked directly what they want, would it expose Republicans holding power in office, but minority views on policy? This would mean, in effect, a tyranny of the minority in those States where, for example a Republican controlled legislature is enforcing laws the citizens don't want. Or in some cases I guess people's views may be even more extreme.

Should every State hold referendums on policy?

Lindsey Graham argues gay marriage rights should be left up to states (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/lindsey-graham-argues-gay-marriage-160230299.html)

[Stavros]

Just when you thought the House of Representatives can not sustain another ignorant jerk to sit alongside LB and MTG, along comes Bo, and apparently it is not satire...

This Interview With A Guy Running For Congress Who Thinks 'Banana Republic' Refers To The Store Feels Like An 'SNL' Skit | Digg (https://digg.com/video/bo-hines-banana-republic-interview)

[Stavros]

Let's give a rousing shout to Scott Morrison, the wizard of Oz.

'I am Scott Morrison, Prime Minister of Australia, and Minister of Home Affairs, and Minister of Health and Resources, and Minister of Finance, and the Treasury.'

Scott is a bloke, mate. And he has five brains. Where is he now?

[Stavros]

What strikes me about this and similar reports, is the lack of compassion the State authorities have for the woman in distress. Are they Christians? It's just so horrible.

Louisiana woman faces ‘horrifically cruel’ abortion choice over fetus missing skull | Abortion | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/20/louisiana-abortion-woman-nancy-davis-benjamin-crump)

[Stavros]

Whereas this Republican does have compassion. But what may be most important about the case of a pregnant 19-year, is that a serious medical decision is in reality being made by lawyers, not doctors. How very American!

GOP State Rep. Rethinks Abortion Bans After Hearing Doctor's Story (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/gop-state-rep-rethinks-abortion-230035723.html)

[Stavros]

Is this not a clear violation of the Oath of Office he has taken? Are there not means by which this man can be thrown out of office or even prosecuted?

"In a December 2020 meeting with Christian nationalists, State Sen. Doug Mastriano prayed Congress would "rise up" on January 6 and "disregard" Pennsylvania's election results, according to a video published by Rolling Stone (https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/doug-mastriano-donald-trump-christian-right-1234589455/) on Friday.Mastriano — the Republican candidate for governor in Pennsylvania — participated in a Zoom meeting held by Jim Garlow, a former megachurch pastor associated with the New Apostolic Reformation, a far-right Christian movement. According to Rolling Stone, Garlow believes the Bible should dictate how the US government works, a Christian nationalist principle."
Pennsylvania governor candidate Doug Mastriano prayed Trump would 'seize the power' ahead of January 6, video shows (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/pennsylvania-governor-candidate-doug-mastriano-014302235.html)

[Stavros]

Are there no laws in Texas and Florida that govern the Governors use or abuse of taxpayer's money? Looks like abuse to me.

"On Wednesday night, DeSantis ordered a pair of charter flights—booked using $12 million of taxpayer money—to carry around 50 migrants to Martha’s Vineyard, a posh Massachusetts island that doesn’t have proper facilities to care for a migrant influx. The migrants involved were flown from Texas to Florida, where they spent no time on the ground, before being flown north, NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/09/15/1123109768/migrants-sent-to-marthas-vineyard?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social) reported.
...
DeSantis’ stunt reportedly cost $12 million—more than $200,000 per migrant—while Texas has spent $14 million since Sept. 7 on busing migrants".
Texas Gov Greg Abbott Dumps Busloads of Migrants in Front of Vice President Kamala Harris’ D.C. Residence (thedailybeast.com) (https://www.thedailybeast.com/texas-gov-greg-abbott-dumps-busloads-of-migrants-in-front-of-vice-president-kamala-harris-dc-residence)

[blackchubby38]

Are there no laws in Texas and Florida that govern the Governors use or abuse of taxpayer's money? Looks like abuse to me.

"On Wednesday night, DeSantis ordered a pair of charter flights—booked using $12 million of taxpayer money—to carry around 50 migrants to Martha’s Vineyard, a posh Massachusetts island that doesn’t have proper facilities to care for a migrant influx. The migrants involved were flown from Texas to Florida, where they spent no time on the ground, before being flown north, NPR (https://www.npr.org/2022/09/15/1123109768/migrants-sent-to-marthas-vineyard?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_medium=social) reported.
...
DeSantis’ stunt reportedly cost $12 million—more than $200,000 per migrant—while Texas has spent $14 million since Sept. 7 on busing migrants".
Texas Gov Greg Abbott Dumps Busloads of Migrants in Front of Vice President Kamala Harris’ D.C. Residence (thedailybeast.com) (https://www.thedailybeast.com/texas-gov-greg-abbott-dumps-busloads-of-migrants-in-front-of-vice-president-kamala-harris-dc-residence)

Whatever it is, something has to be done about the migrant situation at the border. These are just a collection of the headlines about the three cities that Governor Abbott has been sending busloads of migrants to over the past few months:

NYC:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/14/nyregion/homeless-shelters-nyc-adams.html

nypost.com/2022/09/14/city-council-leaders-back-mayor-adams-push-to-put-migrants-to-work-in-nyc/

Washington D.C.:

www.cnn.com/2022/08/12/politics/bowser-pentagon-migrants-assistance/index.html

Chicago:

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-14/illinois-issues-emergency-disaster-order-to-help-asylum-seekers

www.thecentersquare.com/illinois/asylum-seekers-bused-to-chicago-now-being-sent-to-other-illinois-communities/article_6e7a99d0-3074-11ed-8f83-e3ebb4692694.html

[Stavros]

On the one hand you make a fair point about border control, to which there are numerous complex solutions which cost money, but also require a degree of diplomacy with the states of Central and Southern America that I don't think the Biden Administration has focused enough attention on.

But consider the view that as Texas, by GDP is the second richest State in your Union, why spend millions of tax dollars busing migrants out of the State, when it can fund their residence in Texas? When the migrants were dumped in Martha's Vineyard, the locals provided food, clothing and shelter. Is Texas incapable of providing the same?

And this from Pope Gregory who wanted to replace the Constitution of the USA with the Holy Bible?

"But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.”
Luke 14:13-14

"If your brother becomes poor and cannot maintain himself with you, you shall support him as though he were a stranger and a sojourner, and he shall live with you."
Leviticus 25:35.

If the USA is to become a Christian Theocracy, is it too much to expect Americans to behave like Christians?

[KnightHawk 2.0]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-BC6Fdb-p4Not surprised at all that Arizona Sinema said that she and Senate Minority and Kentucky Mitch McConnell share the same values,because that's her friend and has voted and sided with Republicans more than her own party ,including keeping the filibuster in place and receiving handshakes from Republicans. Krysten Sinema is really a republican masquerading a democrat,who doesn't give a damn about the constituents that voted for her.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/04/us/supreme-court-trump-documents.html Not surprised at all the MAGA King Donald Trump asked the US Supreme Court to intervene in review of Top Secret Records that he illegally took to Mar a largo,that were seized by the FBI,because he thinks that all because he put three justices on the Supreme Court,that they are going to rule in his favors and let him the records that don't belong to him back,but he's going to be in for a very rude awakening.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

There's a major difference between the Democrats and the Republicans when it comes to asking for donations from Voters. The Democrats beg and plead and use celebrities to ask for donations,meanwhile the Republicans use divisive headlines to ask for donations. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/09/republican-democrat-political-fundraising-emails

[Stavros]

How about this from Republican Jim Marchant who wants to be Secretary of State in Nevada -

"Addressing the crowd of Trump supporters, Marchant then went on to pledge that he and his band of election deniers would secure a Trump victory in two years’ time.“When I’m secretary of state of Nevada, we are going to fix it, and when my coalition of secretary of state candidates around the country get elected we’re going to fix the whole country, and President Trump is going to be president again in 2024."
Nevada secretary of state contender pledges to secure Trump victory in 2024 (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/nevada-secretary-state-contender-pledges-002032865.html)

In other words, Nevada, your votes don't count, because we are counting the votes, and Trump has won!

[Stavros]

There's a major difference between the Democrats and the Republicans when it comes to asking for donations from Voters. The Democrats beg and plead and use celebrities to ask for donations,meanwhile the Republicans use divisive headlines to ask for donations. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/09/republican-democrat-political-fundraising-emails

When a Billionaire pleads for money you wonder why even his supporters don't scratch their heads and say 'Ain't you got any?'.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

When a Billionaire pleads for money you wonder why even his supporters don't scratch their heads and say 'Ain't you got any?'.Completely agree,Billionaires should be using their own money to pay for and run their campaigns,instead of begging and pleading to their supporters for money.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

How about this from Republican Jim Marchant who wants to be Secretary of State in Nevada -

"Addressing the crowd of Trump supporters, Marchant then went on to pledge that he and his band of election deniers would secure a Trump victory in two years’ time.“When I’m secretary of state of Nevada, we are going to fix it, and when my coalition of secretary of state candidates around the country get elected we’re going to fix the whole country, and President Trump is going to be president again in 2024."
Nevada secretary of state contender pledges to secure Trump victory in 2024 (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/nevada-secretary-state-contender-pledges-002032865.html)

In other words, Nevada, your votes don't count, because we are counting the votes, and Trump has won! Jim Marchant is another delusional candidate living in an alternate world and parroting the Big Lie.

[broncofan]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/12/politics/trump-employee-fbi-mar-a-lago-boxes/index.html

[Stavros]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/12/politics/trump-employee-fbi-mar-a-lago-boxes/index.html

Can Trump's lawyers be held accountable for false statements and even be struck off or have their licences to practice taken away?

[blackchubby38]

On the one hand you make a fair point about border control, to which there are numerous complex solutions which cost money, but also require a degree of diplomacy with the states of Central and Southern America that I don't think the Biden Administration has focused enough attention on.

But consider the view that as Texas, by GDP is the second richest State in your Union, why spend millions of tax dollars busing migrants out of the State, when it can fund their residence in Texas? When the migrants were dumped in Martha's Vineyard, the locals provided food, clothing and shelter. Is Texas incapable of providing the same?

And this from Pope Gregory who wanted to replace the Constitution of the USA with the Holy Bible?

"But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. For you will be repaid at the resurrection of the just.”
Luke 14:13-14

"If your brother becomes poor and cannot maintain himself with you, you shall support him as though he were a stranger and a sojourner, and he shall live with you."
Leviticus 25:35.

If the USA is to become a Christian Theocracy, is it too much to expect Americans to behave like Christians?

Well the Biden Administration did tell the migrants not to come. Obviously they didn't get the message.

If the Biden Administration and further more Congress don't want to address the border crisis with the countries of Central and South America and expect local governments to provide food, clothing, and shelter to migrants while many of them go through the asylum process, the least the federal government can is send financial aid to the those governments before their resources run out.

New York Faces Record Homelessness as Mayor Declares Migrant Emergency

http://https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/07/nyregion/eric-adams-migrant-crisis-response.html


Yes Texas is the second richest state in the union. But at the last count about 2 million migrants have crossed the border this year and even they can't be expected to provide for that many people, some of whom won't be able to work at least for 6 months. Considering the fact that NYC has only been sent 19,000 of them, I think its safe to assume that a majority of that number are still residing in Texas and are being provided for.

Look I have empathy for anyone who wants to come to this country in search of a better a life. But the situation as it stands now is unsustainable. There is only so much any local government can do before they reaches a breaking point.

For example:

Migrants bused to NYC hotel going door-to-door asking for help

http://https://nypost.com/2022/10/09/migrants-bused-to-nyc-hotel-going-door-to-door-asking-for-help/

Or:

‘It’s scary for me’: Struggle of migrant kids in NYC schools with few Spanish speakers

https://nypost.com/2022/10/13/migrant-kids-in-nyc-schools-struggling-amid-lack-of-bilingual-teachers/

But I think the Biden Administration finally got the message:

Gov. Kathy Hochul, Mayor Eric Adams laud Biden administration's move to limit migrants crossing Southern border

https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/gov-kathy-hochul-mayor-eric-adams-laud-biden-administrations-move-to-limit-migrants-crossing-southern-border/

[Stavros]

Thanks for your response and the links. I wonder what Kamala Harris has been doing, as I understand Biden tasked her with Border issues. I am therefore disappointed that there seems to be no dialogue or policy framework between the US and Central American states to reach a rational means of reducing immigration, though it might be that crime and disorder is so endemic in Honduras, for example, that even the Govt can't deal with it, or may be part of the problem.

That so many people want to leave oil-rich Venezuela is a damning indictment of the incompetence of that Govt, though I doubt even a rapprochement with Maduro would help as, again, it is the endemic corruption and bad government that has infiltrated so many levels of society that Exit, rather than either Voice or Loyalty is the option, to borrow Hirschmann's terms.

That said, and I take your point about Texas, I think the trafficking of migrants is a cruel, and expensive stunt, and distracts from the need for a more holistic policy. Should every State in the Union agree to take a proportion of migrants? Would that lessen the burden for 'frontline' States, or run into trouble if certain States refuse to participate?

I should also point out the UK doesn't have a coherent policy either, with Asylum Seekers -not migrants- being sent for processing to Rwanda, a policy so cockeyed and expensive one wonders who created it, and if they could be asked to pay for it. The link does explain the policy in some detail, but is worth reading for all that.
Q&A: The UK’s policy to send asylum seekers to Rwanda - Migration Observatory - The Migration Observatory (ox.ac.uk) (https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/commentaries/qa-the-uks-policy-to-send-asylum-seekers-to-rwanda/)

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Herschel Walker makes a fool of himself during last night's debate againist Raphael Warnock,by flashing a police badge claiming that he worked for law enforcement,and was chastised by the moderator for pulling that stunt. With all of his skeletons and despicable things being revealed about him,the Republicans are still defending and standing by him,but i am not surprised at all,because this is who the Republican Party has become over the last 7 years,when they let embraced someone who is as toxic as the Maga King Donald Trump is. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/14/us/politics/walker-warnock-georgia-senate-debate.html#commentsContainer

[broncofan]

I was getting my car inspected about ten miles East of Pittsburgh in what is Trump country. While sitting in the small waiting room wearing my mask a woman engaged me in conversation about her newest pet conspiracy theories. She was reading a book that claimed every part of the food supply chain was damaging her health, from real concerns about antibiotic use in livestock feed, to unreasonable concerns about the pasteurization of milk. She told me she drives 60 miles to get her beef a particular way, drinks raw milk which the fda and cdc says is dangerous and leads to lots of foodborne illness, and eats eggs that come right out of a chicken's butt (I didn't argue with her about where the eggs come from).

When I responded to be nice and not disagree with anything she was saying she told me she couldn't hear me because of my mask, which she said does nothing but is good if it makes me feel better. Anyhow, I went into the parking lot and walked around for an hour and a half, and took my car home. People seem to be hooked on scientific sophistry and anti-establishment crackery. Had I told her the FDA and CDC think drinking unpasteurized milk is dangerous it would only make her guzzle more of it.

[Stavros]

People seem to be hooked on scientific sophistry and anti-establishment crackery. Had I told her the FDA and CDC think drinking unpasteurized milk is dangerous it would only make her guzzle more of it.


Stay safe, for The Angle of Death is coming, and coming for you. Do watch the video, it's a hoot.

Pro-Trump rally speaker says that 'angel of death' is coming for Lindsey Graham and Democrats before end of the year | Business Insider India (https://www.businessinsider.in/politics/world/news/pro-trump-rally-speaker-says-that-angel-of-death-is-coming-for-lindsey-graham-and-democrats-before-end-of-the-year/articleshow/95049577.cms)

[filghy2]

I was getting my car inspected about ten miles East of Pittsburgh in what is Trump country. While sitting in the small waiting room wearing my mask a woman engaged me in conversation about her newest pet conspiracy theories. She was reading a book that claimed every part of the food supply chain was damaging her health, from real concerns about antibiotic use in livestock feed, to unreasonable concerns about the pasteurization of milk. She told me she drives 60 miles to get her beef a particular way, drinks raw milk which the fda and cdc says is dangerous and leads to lots of foodborne illness, and eats eggs that come right out of a chicken's butt (I didn't argue with her about where the eggs come from).

When I responded to be nice and not disagree with anything she was saying she told me she couldn't hear me because of my mask, which she said does nothing but is good if it makes me feel better. Anyhow, I went into the parking lot and walked around for an hour and a half, and took my car home. People seem to be hooked on scientific sophistry and anti-establishment crackery. Had I told her the FDA and CDC think drinking unpasteurized milk is dangerous it would only make her guzzle more of it.

There are a lot of people who spurn large-scale farming for various reasons, including environmental and animal welfare. The problem is that avoiding the supply chain makes feeding yourself an expensive and inconvenient process. There's no way the world can feed itself without large-scale farming.

I guess this particular conspiracy only harms those who believe it, but the problem is that once people start to believe in government/corporate/media conspiracies they reject the idea of any authoritative source of knowledge. Ironically, they can then start to believe things they read in murky corners of the internet, without considering what those people's motives might be or how their claims have been tested.

It's amazing how many people assert as fact that surgical masks do nothing. Do they think medical staff have been acting out some form of pointless cosplay all these years?

[broncofan]

once people start to believe in government/corporate/media conspiracies they reject the idea of any authoritative source of knowledge.
I agree with you that this is a big problem but I think an additional problem is that people don't understand that experts provide a benefit because they can condense a complex subject but what they say is verifiable. They are choosing to "trust" or "take the word" of people with no expertise over people with expertise but with even a little bit of concern trust is not necessary.

A layperson can go to the cdc website and see the statistics on foodborne disease in those drinking unpasteurized milk. They can learn how a controlled trial works and even if they can't calculate confidence intervals can look at treatment arm v placebo for side effects and effectiveness. They don't want to because they're hooked on believing that the establishment is lying to them.

As for masks one reason they get away with that is because testing them has not been easy. The attempts at controlled studies I've seen have showed them to be effective, though imperfectly.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

It's too late for the Republicans to denounce the MAGA King Donald Trump now,because for over 6 years they enabled his eradicate and despicable behavior,and let him abused his power and do whatever he wanted,and let him get away with it. And had two opportunities move on from him,by impeaching and indicting him,but didn't do it because they were afraid of losing their seats in the House Of Representatives and Senate.

[Fitzcarraldo]

It's too late for the Republicans to denounce the MAGA King Donald Trump now,because for over 6 years they enabled his eradicate and despicable behavior,and let him abused his power and do whatever he wanted,and let him get away with it. And had two opportunities move on from him,by impeaching and indicting him,but didn't do it because they were afraid of losing their seats in the House Of Representatives and Senate.

They won't bother denouncing him, because that would require admitting fault. They'll just start backing DeSantis and ignore him. (But they'll still block attempts to hold Trump accountable as much as they can.)

[KnightHawk 2.0]

They won't bother denouncing him, because that would require admitting fault. They'll just start backing DeSantis and ignore him. (But they'll still block attempts to hold Trump accountable as much as they can.) Completely agree the Republicans won't bother to denounce the MAGA King Donald Trump,because they'll be admitting that they are at fault for enabling his eradicate behavior,and also agree they'll start backing Ron DeSantis,while blocking attempts to hold Donald Trump accountable.

[Stavros]

Completely agree the Republicans won't bother to denounce the MAGA King Donald Trump,because they'll be admitting that they are at fault for enabling his eradicate behavior,and also agree they'll start backing Ron DeSantis,while blocking attempts to hold Donald Trump accountable.

Exactly, because it is not about policies, or principles, only power. All those Republicans who loathe and detest Trump had the opportunity to get rid of him in the second Impeachment trial, and chose power over principle, because they don't have any. They can at one and the same time dismiss Trump and embrace DeSantis, or Haley, or anyone if they think they will win. And what do they do with this power when they get it? Enrich themselves, take away citizen's rights, and fail at the key issues that concern people -crime, education, housing, the border, etc. Is it any wonder people become disillusioned with politicians?

[filghy2]

A few weeks ago someone in the Republican Party posted a tweet celebrating their three cultural heroes; "Kanye. Elon. Trump". That one doesn't look like it will age well.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Exactly, because it is not about policies, or principles, only power. All those Republicans who loathe and detest Trump had the opportunity to get rid of him in the second Impeachment trial, and chose power over principle, because they don't have any. They can at one and the same time dismiss Trump and embrace DeSantis, or Haley, or anyone if they think they will win. And what do they do with this power when they get it? Enrich themselves, take away citizen's rights, and fail at the key issues that concern people -crime, education, housing, the border, etc. Is it any wonder people become disillusioned with politicians?Completely agree that it isn't about policies or principles,and the Republicans had another opportunity to move on from Donald Trump doing the Second Impeachment Trial by impeaching and convicting him,and prevent him from running for office. but chose party over country. No not at all,because politicians will say what people want to hear to get elected and go back on what they promised their constituents.

[broncofan]

I think it has been underestimated how much damage right-wing media has done to public health in the United States and around the world. Polio was nearly eradicated because of the efforts of Sabin, Salk, Koprowski, and many other great scientists. In the last couple of years we saw an unprecedented effort to create vaccines in this country, with unprecedented speed and success in such a short timeline and we've now seen an almost equally unprecedented effort to vilify vaccine makers, to vilify public health experts, and to spread lies about covid and vaccines. What will vaccination rates be for polio and measles in the future? What will they be for emergent diseases given this campaign of propaganda against the most effective tool we have for priming our immune systems against infectious diseases and saving lives?

It has taken several years to demonstrate to many of these folks that hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin do not treat covid. How many studies did they demand be conducted? Republicans used up hours of airtime promoting ivermectin, a drug that was not better than placebo in clinical trials, when paxlovid, which had an 89% effectiveness against severe disease, was available. Ignorance kills. Their ignorance did kill tens of thousands of Americans and will continue to.

[Stavros]

I think it has been underestimated how much damage right-wing media has done to public health in the United States and around the world. Polio was nearly eradicated because of the efforts of Sabin, Salk, Koprowski, and many other great scientists. In the last couple of years we saw an unprecedented effort to create vaccines in this country, with unprecedented speed and success in such a short timeline and we've now seen an almost equally unprecedented effort to vilify vaccine makers, to vilify public health experts, and to spread lies about covid and vaccines. What will vaccination rates be for polio and measles in the future? What will they be for emergent diseases given this campaign of propaganda against the most effective tool we have for priming our immune systems against infectious diseases and saving lives?

It has taken several years to demonstrate to many of these folks that hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin do not treat covid. How many studies did they demand be conducted? Republicans used up hours of airtime promoting ivermectin, a drug that was not better than placebo in clinical trials, when paxlovid, which had an 89% effectiveness against severe disease, was available. Ignorance kills. Their ignorance did kill tens of thousands of Americans and will continue to.

I came across a useful argument today -if one person says it is raining outside, and another says the sun is shining, can both be right? The solution is to look out of the window, but for some time now, allegedly for reasons of 'balance', climate change deniers are allowed to make claims which are the opposite of climate scientists. Do vaccines work, or do they not work? The answer is there, in recorded history, yet anti-vaxx voices can insist that they have the data to prove their point, or in some cases do not but 'are convinced' they are right. If someone tells you masks don't work, ask why doctors and nurses in an opeating theatre wear them- should they dispense with the masks and gowns and operate in jeans and a t-shirt?

To be contrary is fundamental to the agenda -Democrats are wrong, on taxes, welfare, immigration -indeed, wrong about everything, so whatever they say must be depicted as wrong, and it doesn't even matter if they are wrong, because there is no alternative other than to swing 100% the other way and say Republicans are right, when most people, even those who are a bit dumb, know the truth is never that easy.

Trump made it easy, because there is only one way of looking at things- his view is the only view. The tragedy is as you say it, in the actual experience of pregnant women denied an abortion they need, not want. The corollary of this is that those Republicans who insist on a woman carrying a pregnancy to full term, even if the foetus is not viable for medical reasons, are inflicting a form of cruelty on that woman that would be a crime in any other context, and I think this has repulsed a lot of people.

But consider who else has opposed Polio vaccines -the Taliban and the Haqqani Network in Pakistan, the same people who claim vaccines exist to sterilize their women, a plot by the evil West. If the media can stop fisting the truth by giving equal weight to right and wrong arguments, and clearly put the Republicans and anti-Vaxx campaigners in the arms of the Taliban, then I think, or hope, we can all move on from the damage you so identify as a genuine threat to life.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Not surprised at all by the MAGA King Donald Trump announcement that he's running for President in 2024 ,because he wants too prevent Ron DeSantis and other Republicans from challenging him in a primary,and thinks that it will prevent Attorney General Merrick Garland from pressing charges and prosecuting him for the January 6th Attack on the US Capitol and stealing classified documents that he took to Mar-a-largo and thinks he's above the law,and his enablers will defend him and actions. He and his enablers are going to be in for a very rude awakening. https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-white-house-bid/story?id=92820500

[broncofan]

A club called Club Q was shot up by a hatemonger in Colorado Springs. It is an lgbt club and the shooting was on the eve of Transgender Day of Remembrance, which is today. :-( https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/20/us/colorado-springs-shooting-gay-nightclub/index.html

[Stavros]

The Butcher of Uvalde who gave the shooter his guns, re-elected. Mistress of Hate in Colorado, praying for people whose lives she endangered, re-elected (just). More dead today in Virginia, just as there will be more sometime soon -LGBTQ+, Children, Mums and Dads, Jews and Muslims. Until you overhaul your insane gun laws, there will be no rational response, to call for prayers is becoming the equivalent of a shrug of the shoulders and the comment, 'How many dead? So what?'.

Enjoy your Thanksgiving weekend, it might be your last.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

The Butcher of Uvalde who gave the shooter his guns, re-elected. Mistress of Hate in Colorado, praying for people whose lives she endangered, re-elected (just). More dead today in Virginia, just as there will be more sometime soon -LGBTQ+, Children, Mums and Dads, Jews and Muslims. Until you overhaul your insane gun laws, there will be no rational response, to call for prayers is becoming the equivalent of a shrug of the shoulders and the comment, 'How many dead? So what?'.

Enjoy your Thanksgiving weekend, it might be your last.The MAGA Party can those disingenuous thoughts and prayers and stick it up their asses,because their words are hollow and insincere.

[broncofan]

This guy, Nick Fuentes, and Kanye West visited Donald Trump at Mar a Lago. Nick Fuentes wants people to kill Jews and has warned that it's coming. He is a literal neo-nazi. Marjorie Taylor Greene wants Fuentes reinstated on twitter. Many Republicans have spent the last several days trying to incite violence against the lgbt community with frivolous accusations of grooming. This is not just slightly dangerous...it is red alert dangerous.

https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1592598676886949888 (https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1592598676886949888)

[broncofan]

I also want to say that if the shooter at Club Q has never identified as non-binary as his attorneys are now claiming, they should be sanctioned. You cannot fabricate a gender identity because you think it might help your client fight hate crime charges. Ultimately it should not matter because the hate crime charge depends on whether he targeted people based on their identity rather than what his own gender identity is but if it's false then they would be doing it to muddy the water.

I think it will probably end up being false and he is not non-binary.

[Stavros]

I also want to say that if the shooter at Club Q has never identified as non-binary as his attorneys are now claiming, they should be sanctioned. You cannot fabricate a gender identity because you think it might help your client fight hate crime charges. Ultimately it should not matter because the hate crime charge depends on whether he targeted people based on their identity rather than what his own gender identity is but if it's false then they would be doing it to muddy the water.

I think it will probably end up being false and he is not non-binary.

Not interested in his sexuality, the real question is, how did he get the gun? And when are you going to do something about guns that has actual effects, real consequences, and fewer killings?

[Stavros]

This guy, Nick Fuentes, and Kanye West visited Donald Trump at Mar a Lago. Nick Fuentes wants people to kill Jews and has warned that it's coming. He is a literal neo-nazi. Marjorie Taylor Greene wants Fuentes reinstated on twitter. Many Republicans have spent the last several days trying to incite violence against the lgbt community with frivolous accusations of grooming. This is not just slightly dangerous...it is red alert dangerous.
(https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1592598676886949888)

Arwa Mahdawi agrees with you-

"You know what’s most shocking about the massacre in Colorado Springs? The fact that it felt so inevitable. Over the past year there has been an escalation in dangerously dehumanising anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric. The idea that LGBTQ+ people are “groomers” and paedophiles (https://www.vox.com/culture/23025505/leftist-groomers-homophobia-satanic-panic-explained) has become a mainstream conservative talking point pushed by everyone from Fox News to Republican politicians. Christina Pushaw, the press secretary for the Florida governor Ron DeSantis, for example, said that a new law preventing Florida schools from teaching kids about LGBTQ+ people should be called the “the anti-grooming bill”. If you’re against it, she tweeted (https://twitter.com/ChristinaPushaw/status/1499890719691051008?s=20&t=kjwYldGYlw2YvvSu-KEVIw), “you are probably a groomer or at least you don’t denounce the grooming of four- to eight-year-old children”. According to the Human Rights Campaign (https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/new-report-anti-lgbtq-grooming-narrative-surged-more-than-400-on-social-media-following-floridas-dont-say-gay-or-trans-law-as-social-platforms-enabled-extremist-politicians-and-their-allies-to-peddle-inflamatory-discriminatory-rhetoric), the average number of tweets each day using slurs such as “groomer” and “paedophile” in relation to LGBTQ+ people increased by 406% in the month after the Florida bill was passed."
The massacre at Club Q didn’t happen in a vacuum. There has been a dangerous escalation in hateful anti-LGBT rhetoric | Arwa Mahdawi | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/nov/23/the-massacre-at-club-q-didnt-happen-in-a-vacuum-there-has-been-a-dangerous-escalation-in-hateful-anti-lgbt-rhetoric)

[Stavros]

Explaining a few things to this ignorant, insensitive woman is, I fear, a waste of time.

"Jenna Ellis, one of the right-wing lawyers who represented former President Donald Trump in his failed attempts to overturn the 2020 election, proclaimed on Wednesday's edition of The Jenna Ellis Show that the five victims who were murdered in the massacre at Club Q in Colorado Springs, Colorado early Sunday morning are burning in Hell.
"The five people who were killed in the nightclub that night, there is no evidence at all that they were Christians. So assuming that they were not, that they had not accepted the truth of the gospel of Christ and affirmed Jesus Christ as the lord of their life, they are now reaping the consequences of having eternal damnation," Ellis said. "And that is far, far greater – we should be having that conversation. Instead of just the tragedy of what happened to the body, we need to be talking about what happened to the soul and the fact that they are now in eternal separation from our lord and savior Jesus Christ." "
Former Trump lawyer says Club Q victims are "burning in Hell" | Salon.com (https://www.salon.com/2022/11/24/former-lawyer-says-club-q-victims-are-burning-in-hell_partner/)

[KnightHawk 2.0]

This guy, Nick Fuentes, and Kanye West visited Donald Trump at Mar a Lago. Nick Fuentes wants people to kill Jews and has warned that it's coming. He is a literal neo-nazi. Marjorie Taylor Greene wants Fuentes reinstated on twitter. Many Republicans have spent the last several days trying to incite violence against the lgbt community with frivolous accusations of grooming. This is not just slightly dangerous...it is red alert dangerous.

https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1592598676886949888 (https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/status/1592598676886949888)Agree it is Red Alert Dangerous.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Republicans think that if they continue to ignore the MAGA King Donald Trump,and his despicable and eradicate behavior he'll go away,for over the last 6 years they have been wrong and no matter how hard they try to avoid responding to his actions ,he's not going away and will continue to steal the headlines and destroy the reputation of the Republican Party,til it's no more and replace it with his own party. The Republicans are solely responsible for the destruction of their party when they decided to endrose Donald Trump as the nominee during the 2016 Presidential Election.

[Stavros]

I understand why you have Primaries, don't understand where and when. Explanation, please.

[blackchubby38]

I understand why you have Primaries, don't understand where and when. Explanation, please.

They happen in all 50 states and I believe in the territories leading up to any general election. They're strictly for the two parties and you have to be registered as either a Democrat or a Republican to vote in them. So if you're registered independent (like me), you can't vote in them.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_primary

Here is a breakdown of the 2020 Democratic Party presidential primary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries

[Stavros]

Thanks, but the question is, does it matter where and when these Primaries take place and who goes first?

[blackchubby38]

Thanks, but the question is, does it matter where and when these Primaries take place and who goes first?

The Biden administration seems to think so:

Democrats vote to move forward with Biden plan to put South Carolina first on 2024 primary calendar

www.cnn.com/2022/12/02/politics/dnc-south-carolina-primary-calendar-2024/index.html

[filghy2]

Thanks, but the question is, does it matter where and when these Primaries take place and who goes first?

The primaries game seems to be about gaining momentum from early wins. Presumably, candidates would prefer states where they are likely to do better to be earlier. The scheduling seems to be based a lot on tradition, but there's no logical reason to always do it that way.

Like many things in politics, I suspect this matters less than political junkies think it does. Sometimes the candidate with early wins is the ultimate winner; sometimes not. Biden won last time despite poor early performances.

[filghy2]

Trump seems very determined to test whether Republicans will be willing to continue to support him whatever he says or does: first the dinner with the anti-semites and now his call to terminate the constitution to restore him to the presidency.

I know a few of them have criticised him over these things, but the real test is whether they are willing to say publically that he is not a fit person to be the nominee. I'd say 95% of them will fall into line if he looks like being the nominee.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/04/trump-constitution-republican-dave-joyce-2024

[filghy2]

So far it seems to be following the standard script:
1. Trump makes some outrageous statement.
2. Mainstream Republicans express concerns.
3. Trump semi-walks back the statement in some disingenuous way (eg claiming he didn't say it).
4. Mainstream Republicans express relief and move on.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/republicans-trump-twitter-election-constitution-b2239487.html

[Stavros]

I can understand diehard Republicans in Georgia voting for Herschel Walker, but who else is going to when he is so obviously stupid? Trump seems to have established so low a level of intelligence in public office, that now even the most dim person can seek election. I agree you cannot limit candidates on the basis of intelligence, but he isn't running to be on tv. And it is the acquiescence of people who do know better that is so chilling, be it Walker or Trump. It does make you wonder if Americans have learned anything since 2015.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

So far it seems to be following the standard script:
1. Trump makes some outrageous statement.
2. Mainstream Republicans express concerns.
3. Trump semi-walks back the statement in some disingenuous way (eg claiming he didn't say it).
4. Mainstream Republicans express relief and move on.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/republicans-trump-twitter-election-constitution-b2239487.htmlThat's the MAGA King and his enablers playbook.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Trump seems very determined to test whether Republicans will be willing to continue to support him whatever he says or does: first the dinner with the anti-semites and now his call to terminate the constitution to restore him to the presidency.

I know a few of them have criticised him over these things, but the real test is whether they are willing to say publically that he is not a fit person to be the nominee. I'd say 95% of them will fall into line if he looks like being the nominee.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/04/trump-constitution-republican-dave-joyce-2024Completely agree the 95% of Republicans will fall in line like they've been over 6 years,if Donald Trump ends up being the republican nominee in 2024.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

I can understand diehard Republicans in Georgia voting for Herschel Walker, but who else is going to when he is so obviously stupid? Trump seems to have established so low a level of intelligence in public office, that now even the most dim person can seek election. I agree you cannot limit candidates on the basis of intelligence, but he isn't running to be on tv. And it is the acquiescence of people who do know better that is so chilling, be it Walker or Trump. It does make you wonder if Americans have learned anything since 2015. Completely agree,and the main reason why Georgia Republicans are voting for an Unintelligent,Unqualified Fool like Herschel Walker,because they don't want Raphael Warnock getting re-elected to the US Senate.

[blackchubby38]

I can understand diehard Republicans in Georgia voting for Herschel Walker, but who else is going to when he is so obviously stupid? Trump seems to have established so low a level of intelligence in public office, that now even the most dim person can seek election. I agree you cannot limit candidates on the basis of intelligence, but he isn't running to be on tv. And it is the acquiescence of people who do know better that is so chilling, be it Walker or Trump. It does make you wonder if Americans have learned anything since 2015.

Every time I hear him speak, (even taking into consideration that he use to stutter when he was kid), I think to myself there is no way he should have received the nomination from a major political party in the first place. Let alone be involved in a runoff election.

But for all the hoopla about Biden winning Georgia in 2020 or the popularity of Stacy Abrams, the thing to remember is that Georgia is still a red state. So I'm not surprised about how well Walker is doing. Its not about the man, but the (R) next to his name.

Having said all that, I'm still hopeful that Warnock is going to win.

[Stavros]

Every time I hear him speak, (even taking into consideration that he use to stutter when he was kid), I think to myself there is no way he should have received the nomination from a major political party in the first place. Let alone be involved in a runoff election.

But for all the hoopla about Biden winning Georgia in 2020 or the popularity of Stacy Abrams, the thing to remember is that Georgia is still a red state. So I'm not surprised about how well Walker is doing. Its not about the man, but the (R) next to his name.

Having said all that, I'm still hopeful that Warnock is going to win.

I wonder what you make of these comment by Robert Reich. I also wonder if what is emerging in a State like Georgia is a cleavage between the Urban and the Rural, where one is more liberal than the other -and if this is also a common feature in States and not just across the South-?

"Georgia isn’t quite a microcosm of America. It’s more likely a microcosm of the future of America.
Since 2000, the state’s population has surged, particularly among young people and people of color. The foreign-born population (https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/GA) now exceeds 10% of the state’s total.
Atlanta has become a hub of youthful innovation and knowledge work, including upwardly mobile Black professionals.
Warnock and Walker are two Black men in a runoff contest created decades ago (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/06/04/runoff-elections-a-relic-of-the-democratic-south/) to thwart Black candidates. Georgia has never had two Black nominees compete for the Senate."
The Georgia Senate runoff is a referendum on Trump’s zombie grasp on America | Robert Reich | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/06/georgia-senate-runoff-warnock-walker-robert-reich)

[filghy2]

But for all the hoopla about Biden winning Georgia in 2020 or the popularity of Stacy Abrams, the thing to remember is that Georgia is still a red state. So I'm not surprised about how well Walker is doing. Its not about the man, but the (R) next to his name.

According to this article, 94% of voters identifying as Republican voted for Walker in November. https://www.thedailybeast.com/herschel-walker-lost-the-georgia-senate-election-but-the-gop-is-still-poisoned-by-maga-loonies

Therein lies your problem. As long as only a small percentage of Republicans is prepared to reject the party line - no matter how stupid, whacky or extreme - things will always be on a knife edge. If only 1.5% of voters had changed their vote this guy would have been elected.

That said, their are clearly some positives. Of all the losers only Kari Lake seriously tried to do a Trump and claim her loss was fraudulent, and that has turned into a fizzer. The lack of interest this time around suggests that hardly anyone really believed Trump's big lie. It was all a performance to demonstrate fealty to the cult.

[Stavros]

I am off to Germany and Austria for a month of opera, good food and drink and convivial company. So i offer you warmest greetings for the Christmas and New Year in the hope you too will be well-fed, well-loved, and at peace with this turbulent world.

Silent Night in German (Stille Nacht) -Dresden choir. (Dresdner Kreuzchor) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGA6djLsDgs)

[KnightHawk 2.0]

I am off to Germany and Austria for a month of opera, good food and drink and convivial company. So i offer you warmest greetings for the Christmas and New Year in the hope you too will be well-fed, well-loved, and at peace with this turbulent world.

Silent Night in German (Stille Nacht) -Dresden choir. (Dresdner Kreuzchor) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGA6djLsDgs)Have a fun and safe trip,and likewise Stavros. :)

[blackchubby38]

I wonder what you make of these comment by Robert Reich. I also wonder if what is emerging in a State like Georgia is a cleavage between the Urban and the Rural, where one is more liberal than the other -and if this is also a common feature in States and not just across the South-?

"Georgia isn’t quite a microcosm of America. It’s more likely a microcosm of the future of America.
Since 2000, the state’s population has surged, particularly among young people and people of color. The foreign-born population (https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/GA) now exceeds 10% of the state’s total.
Atlanta has become a hub of youthful innovation and knowledge work, including upwardly mobile Black professionals.
Warnock and Walker are two Black men in a runoff contest created decades ago (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/06/04/runoff-elections-a-relic-of-the-democratic-south/) to thwart Black candidates. Georgia has never had two Black nominees compete for the Senate."
The Georgia Senate runoff is a referendum on Trump’s zombie grasp on America | Robert Reich | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/06/georgia-senate-runoff-warnock-walker-robert-reich)

I think there is something to be said that that two black men were competing for the United States Senate. Its just a shame that one of the candidates wasn't qualified to run for public office.

As for the cleavage between Urban and the Rural, I think its a lot more common in the South because of the population growth of many of the mid size metro areas over the past 15-20 years and even going farther back to the mid 1990s.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Marjorie-Qanon Karen-Taylor Greene says the quiet part out loud,and her despicable comments shows how dangerous she really is. And there's going to be more of these disgusting comments when her and her fellow members of the MAGA Caucus take over the House Of Representatives on Tuesday January 3rd 2023. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE7YPUycCmI

[blackchubby38]

Personally, I think it should be a year. But I guess 5 months is better than doing nothing at all.


Fearing 14K migrants a day, Biden admin weighing rule to ban asylum seekers for 5 months: report

http://nypost.com/2022/12/13/biden-admin-weighing-rule-to-ban-migrants-for-5-months-report/

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Kevin McCarthy has sold his soul to the MAGA Caucus in order to become the speaker of the House Of Representatives ,and will be the weakest speaker of the House Of Representatives and will be at the mercy of that caucus for the next two years,which will be very chaotic due to the MAGA Caucus launching fraudulent investigations into Joe Biden,his family and his administration all because they don't like him,and to get even with the Democrats for launching investigations into their leader the MAGA King Donald Trump,instead of governing and passing legislation. Which will lead to them losing the 2024 Election and the Democrats retaking control of the House Of Representatives in 2025.

[Stavros]

Is it outrageous that Representative Santos is a shameless liar, or is it part of the deal now, that an elected politician can tell as many lies as he (or she) can fabricate, and it doesn't matter, and he as sure as hell is hot, will not resign -and his party in the House can't afford to get rid of him in case they lose the election to replace him -??

Every lie disgraced incoming Congressman George Santos has been accused of making, so far (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/every-lie-disgraced-incoming-congressman-225759046.html)

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Is it outrageous that Representative Santos is a shameless liar, or is it part of the deal now, that an elected politician can tell as many lies as he (or she) can fabricate, and it doesn't matter, and he as sure as hell is hot, will not resign -and his party in the House can't afford to get rid of him in case they lose the election to replace him -??

Every lie disgraced incoming Congressman George Santos has been accused of making, so far (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/every-lie-disgraced-incoming-congressman-225759046.html)Yes it is outrageous that the con artist George Santos who is posing as a member of the House Of Representatives is a liar,is under multiple investigations for lying about his credentials resisted calls to resign. The MAGA Party doesn't want to rid of him because they are of losing the election to replace him.

[Stavros]

This is not weird so much as what one now expects from the Republican Party -are they being funded by Saudi Arabia? And will that House pass a rule to ensure that men always wear a jacket, and never roll up their shirt sleeves?

"Missouri Democrats slammed their Republican colleagues for a move to impose a stricter dress code on female lawmakers in the state House
...Proudie was speaking out against Republican state Rep. Ann Kelley's push to amend the House's formal rules by requiring women to wear a blazer while in the chamber. The GOP-led House later passed slightly amended rules that require female lawmakers to cover their arms but that allows for cardigans and other kinds of jackets,"
Missouri Republicans pass a rule requiring women to cover their arms in the state House chamber (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/missouri-republicans-pass-rule-requiring-192105277.html)

[Stavros]

Will the NRA now issue a statement to say that the only thing that can stop a bad six year-old with a gun, is a good six year-old with a gun? When are the men and women who can do so, going to take control of the Gun Madness that America is suffering -and dying from?

Six-year-old Virginia boy’s backpack was searched before he shot his teacher | Virginia | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/13/virginia-teacher-shooting-abigail-zwerner-child-backpack-searched)

[broncofan]

Will the NRA now issue a statement to say that the only thing that can stop a bad six year-old with a gun, is a good six year-old with a gun? When are the men and women who can do so, going to take control of the Gun Madness that America is suffering -and dying from?

Six-year-old Virginia boy’s backpack was searched before he shot his teacher | Virginia | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/13/virginia-teacher-shooting-abigail-zwerner-child-backpack-searched)
They're true believers though. The NRA and a large part of the GOP cannot be convinced that lots of guns lead to more killings and that guns are far less often use successfully in self-defense.

I'm afraid they've gone to this same place with healthcare. Many right-wing pundits openly promote anti-vax views. They may say they don't oppose vaccines generally and just oppose mrna vaccines for covid which they claim pose a special danger (there's no evidence of this). But the evidence they use to support this claim is very similar to how anti-vax propagandists have attacked other vaccines for infectious diseases. When NFL player Damar Hamlin was hit in the chest with a helmet and his heart stopped (he suffered commotio cordis), most rational people were hoping the medics had administered cpr quickly enough and that he'd survive (thankfully he did). Yet there were some right-wing pundits saying stuff like "how often do we see a perfectly healthy 25 year old have his heart stop. I wonder if he was vaccinated."

They've been doing this every time someone young dies, as though every year a certain percentage of younger people don't die of cardiac arrest. So they are extremists when it comes to guns but it's fairly new that they have really embraced the antivaxxer movement, another extremist movement that will lead to more deaths, young and old.

[blackchubby38]

If I'm former Presidents Obama, George W, Clinton, and hell even Carter, I'm going through my various residences and offices and making sure I don't have any classified documents hanging around. I would hate for Merrick Garland to have to come and hold another press conference announcing he is appointing a special counsel to investigate another former president and how they handled classified information.

[filghy2]

I'm sure inadvertent mishandling of classified documents is quite common. Trump wasn't raided because he took home a few documents he forgot about. He was raided because he refused to return them all despite many requests, and tried to hide some of them.

The general public probably does not realise that government bureaucracy produces a massive number of classified documents, and most of them don't present much risk to national security. Officials have a tendency to overclassify. Often it's just something that might be slightly embarassing or invite inconvenient questions if it appeared in the media. I know this because I used to work there.

[Stavros]

If I'm former Presidents Obama, George W, Clinton, and hell even Carter, I'm going through my various residences and offices and making sure I don't have any classified documents hanging around. I would hate for Merrick Garland to have to come and hold another press conference announcing he is appointing a special counsel to investigate another former president and how they handled classified information.

All those lawyers that attend Presidents and Vice-Presidents, and who know that every scrap of paper must be handed over to the Archives. It may be a case of the men being sloppy, but at the same time, why shift something into the garage if you know its not supposed to be there? Did either of the two men ever carry the boxes themselves? I doubt it.

Now see this through the sectarian prism that is distorting US politics, where in time, if it happens, the Impeachment of Trump will be 'expunged', the attempt to overturn the election on Jan 6 become a public holiday, anyone convicted pardoned, Critical Race Theory banned throughout the country, George Santos to run for the Presidency, and the Kennedy family subject to an historic investigation, and why not?

[Stavros]

And to add to my post above, this comment from Ron Johnson-

"The Wisconsin senator Ron Johnson refused to say Republicans planning investigations of Hunter Biden for profiting from his connection to the presidency should also investigate Jared Kushner, Donald Trump’s son-in-law and adviser who secured a $1.2bn loan from Qata (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/13/jared-kushner-qatar-property-deal-ron-wyden-senate)r while working in the White House.
“I’m concerned about getting to the truth,” Johnson insisted. “I don’t target individuals.”"
Republican targeting Hunter Biden says: ‘I don’t target individuals’ | Republicans | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/15/i-dont-target-individuals-republican-ron-johnson-hunter-biden-jared-kushner)

What is an individual? Maybe American English is different from what we speak over here, innit?

[blackchubby38]

You know how when you leave a job you're given a termination checklist that you have to go through and turn in to HR when you're done. I think we need to do the same thing for Presidents and Vice Presidents before they leave office. Just to make sure they don't have any classified documents accidentally packed away with their coffee mugs, plants, and various other items they have accumulated over the years.

[Stavros]

You know how when you leave a job you're given a termination checklist that you have to go through and turn in to HR when you're done. I think we need to do the same thing for Presidents and Vice Presidents before they leave office. Just to make sure they don't have any classified documents accidentally packed away with their coffee mugs, plants, and various other items they have accumulated over the years.

You make a telling point -but surely if Presidents have people to manage their diary and their phone calls, there must be bod who is in charge of documents? Are they kept in a filing cabinet? Not sure I have seen one in the Oval Office. I guess when the time comes to move they stuff things in boxes, yet again, it is not as if they have to move overnight, so I do wonder what is going on here when I am sure the lawyers will tell Presidents and Vice-Presidents who owns the stuff they have, from documents to foreign gifts.

I guess this is not going to damage Trump as much as some hoped, given Biden and Pence are now in the frame, but then Trump has other issues to deal with, Georgia and New York being closest to his jawline.

As for that photo with an ex-Gambino man, didn't Trump admit he hired the Gambino-Castellano concrete firm to help build Trump Tower in Manhattan? Has there ever been a President so closely linked to organized crime? Amazing. Like winning a golf tournament when you ain't there.

[filghy2]

Like winning a golf tournament when you ain't there.

Not just one- 21 times according to a guy who wrote a book on it.
https://thecomeback.com/politics/donald-trump-cheat-golf-report.html

[blackchubby38]

If I'm former Presidents Obama, George W, Clinton, and hell even Carter, I'm going through my various residences and offices and making sure I don't have any classified documents hanging around. I would hate for Merrick Garland to have to come and hold another press conference announcing he is appointing a special counsel to investigate another former president and how they handled classified information.

See me and the National Archives are on the same wavelength:

National Archives Asks Ex-Presidents and Vice Presidents to Scour Their Files

http://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/26/us/politics/presidents-classified-files-national-archives.html

[Stavros]

"Rep. Jim Jordan of Ohio on Sunday that there aren't "enough good people" seeking to become police officers due to the effects of the "defund the police" movement, which he blames for smearing law enforcement officials across the country."
GOP Rep. Jim Jordan says there aren't 'enough good people' seeking to become police officers due to the 'disparagement' of law enforcement (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/gop-rep-jim-jordan-says-192757208.html)

So, if you are stopped by a policeman who has the III Percent emblem embroidered on his uniform, are you being stopped by a law enforcement officer, or an armed terrorist?

Can Little Jimmy Jordan explain why so many American Terrorists are not just in Law Enforcement, but have the emblem of their anti-American, anti-Democratic group sewn onto their uniform -presumably with the full approval of the people in charge?

[blackchubby38]

I saw a pedestrian get hit by a speeding car last night. When I say hit, I he mean went over the hood and smashed into the windshield. Even though the driver did stop and get out of his car, I swear it looked like it was intentional.

[Stavros]

That is a horrible thing to see, I hope you are not too upset. It is the kind of thing that can stay with you for years.

[Stavros]

This is one of the best expositions of CRT applied to the law I have seen or read. The keywords are 'Preferential', 'Colour Blindness', 'Affirmative Action', 'Asymmetrical', with some fascinating insights into Plessy-v-Ferguson, Martin Luther King's 1963 speech at the climax of the March on Washington, and some brutal comments on the law....and it's not too long.

Kimberlé Crenshaw, "Race, Gender, Inequality and Intersectionality" - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNKbGFoYC1Q)

It seems there is no law that says a Congressional Representative in the House cannot talk verifiable rubbish, be ignorant, stupid and offensive, but hey, that's Marjorie Taylor Greene, who also thinks one school in Illinois got over $4 billion.....oh dear, America, can't you do better than this?

Acyn on Twitter: "Greene: Can you tell me how much money went to CRT? Dodaro: CRT? Greene: It’s a racist curriculum used to teach children that somehow their white skin not equal to black skin and other things https://t.co/ssFZE7Gxlz" / Twitter (https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1620874964219084802?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1621159547720331264%7Ctwgr% 5Eac318caa700a8f6b8a0f8491e5660b3ebe29cdd0%7Ctwcon %5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnews %2Fworld%2Famericas%2Fus-politics%2Fmarjorie-taylor-greene-critical-race-theory-b2274577.html)

[KnightHawk 2.0]

It seems there is no law that says a Congressional Representative in the House cannot talk verifiable rubbish, be ignorant, stupid and offensive, but hey, that's Marjorie Taylor Greene, who also thinks one school in Illinois got over $4 billion.....oh dear, America, can't you do better than this?

Acyn on Twitter: "Greene: Can you tell me how much money went to CRT? Dodaro: CRT? Greene: It’s a racist curriculum used to teach children that somehow their white skin not equal to black skin and other things https://t.co/ssFZE7Gxlz" / Twitter (https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1620874964219084802?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1621159547720331264%7Ctwgr% 5Eac318caa700a8f6b8a0f8491e5660b3ebe29cdd0%7Ctwcon %5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnews %2Fworld%2Famericas%2Fus-politics%2Fmarjorie-taylor-greene-critical-race-theory-b2274577.html)No unfortunately,because the MAGA Party consist of Bigots,Conspiracy theorists,Homophobes and Racists who use their positions of power to deflect,deny,distract and project and spread hateful rhetoric againist people who don't believe in their twisted political views. And launch fraudulent investigations and kick people off committees they don't like.

[broncofan]

Removing Ilhan Omar from the Foreign Affairs Committee is hateful bullshit. Without going into a postmortem about her previous comments, I just want to summarize my view which is that I don't think she is antisemitic. I'm not saying my view is the final word but I don't see it at all.

And while we don't have to live in a zero-sum world Republicans have shown complete tolerance for every kind of prejudice from Marjorie Taylor Greene and frankly many Republicans. Removing her is cherrypicked, xenophobic, Islamophobic demagoguery.

BTW, the antisemitism from Kanye West (he also made racist comments about slavery) was about as obvious and direct as it can get and numerous Republicans defended him because he's a MAGA supporter. It was only when he started saying Hitler is a great man that they realized he was a liability. Some might say he's only a musician, but he's extremely high profile and a ton of Republican pundits were actively supporting him while he was basically on an interview tour discussing the Jewish question. The hypocrisy couldn't be more stark. Also ask Marjorie Taylor Greene about her ties to Nazi Nick Fuentes.....

[blackchubby38]

So that's how World War III is going to start. Over a "weather balloon".

[Stavros]

Removing Ilhan Omar from the Foreign Affairs Committee is hateful bullshit. Without going into a postmortem about her previous comments, I just want to summarize my view which is that I don't think she is antisemitic. I'm not saying my view is the final word but I don't see it at all.

And while we don't have to live in a zero-sum world Republicans have shown complete tolerance for every kind of prejudice from Marjorie Taylor Greene and frankly many Republicans. Removing her is cherrypicked, xenophobic, Islamophobic demagoguery.

BTW, the antisemitism from Kanye West (he also made racist comments about slavery) was about as obvious and direct as it can get and numerous Republicans defended him because he's a MAGA supporter. It was only when he started saying Hitler is a great man that they realized he was a liability. Some might say he's only a musician, but he's extremely high profile and a ton of Republican pundits were actively supporting him while he was basically on an interview tour discussing the Jewish question. The hypocrisy couldn't be more stark. Also ask Marjorie Taylor Greene about her ties to Nazi Nick Fuentes.....

First of all, I don't know much about Ilhan Omar, and wonder if she is good at her job, that is, representing the people in her District. It seems to me that too many of the Congressional Representatives I read about are good at becoming media personalities, but I don't know how good they are as Representatives, and this goes for Marjorie Taylor Greene as well as Omar.

Second, when I was a student of American politics and history, a long time ago now, I did a short study of Black American Politics, and my tutor pointed out that historically, Foreign Policy had been a concern for the Senate not the House, but that the increase in Black representation in the House and the co-ordinated campaign against Apartheid in South Africa had introduced Foreign Policy issues in the House where before they had not been prominent. Andrew Young was identified as a key player in this. Should the House be more concerned with Domestic, than Foreign Policy?

Third, Congresswoman Omar is no more clever or stupid than most of the others I read about. She has condemned the response of Iran's govt to the protests there, though I am not sure if she has specifically referred to the Hijab- a version of which she wears- as an emblem of women's oppression. She has condemned the State of Israel but in the same sentence HAMAS, thus being another faded and jaded exponent of American appeasement, which in consequence trashes the rights of Palestinians for the sake of a strategic alliance, in much the same way the USA has supported Saudi Arabia in spite of its lamentable record on Human Rights, with the current regime under MbS chopping off more heads a week than ISIS managed. Whatever!

Fourth, as with the pathetic apology of Kim Johnson MP in the House of Commons, I think we need to take a stern look at the current Israeli Govt and indeed, ask if it is Fascist, because to me it has Fascist tendencies, and even more important, these reach back to the Mandate period when Jewish Nationalists fighting the British, Avraham Stern in particular, were trained in Fascist Italy and admired both Mussolini and his ideology, as discussed in the Haaretz article linked below.

No, Apartheid is the wrong term to use. In South Africa, it didn't must mean 'Separate Development', but factored in the 'Bantustans', the 'independent' or 'Autonomous' states where the Africans removed from the Cape and Transvaal were expected to live -the last thing on Netanyahu's mind is any kind of Palestinian state.

The law passed under the last Netanyahu Govt is to my mind a Fascist law, because it collapses all identity in Israel into one explicitly Jewish category that obliges internal devotion, that condemns any external involvement in Israel not based on that category, and recruits all the resources of the State to protect that Group Identity which, being Jewish, rejects all others, contrary to the last paragraph of the Declaration of the State of Israel 1948, the closest Israel has ever come to a Constitution. As was argued here-

"at the core of the new law is a deep, existential debate that Israelis have grappled with almost since the country’s founding: Can Israel be both a “Jewish state” that protects and celebrates Jewish identity, and a liberal democracy that protects the rights of all minorities, including non-Jews?"
Israel’s controversial new “Jewish nation-state” law, explained - Vox (https://www.vox.com/world/2018/7/31/17623978/israel-jewish-nation-state-law-bill-explained-apartheid-netanyahu-democracy)

As I have argued elsewhere, Israel is defended and supported by States and Politicians that would never allow the extremists found in the current Govt representation in their own country, while denying that Palestinians have any rights, and ignoring the simple fact that Netanyahu rejected the 1993 Peace Treaty from the outset, preferring war to peace, confrontation to negotiation, but completely incapable of telling anyone what Israel intends to do with 2 million people on the West Bank, and another 2 million in the Gaza District who are not Jewish and don't want to be ruled by Israel.

On this basis, Ilhan Omar is a coward for not confronting the hypocrisy of the American political establishment, though one notes there are Americans who want a Fascist state of their own.

Also in the links below is a discussion of why Israel is so determined not to take sides in Russia's war against Ukraine -not because of the annexation problem, but because Israel is more concerned by the fate of Jews in Russia than freedom in the Ukraine.

Links
Haaretz article from 2019 on Israel's Fascist past
When Jews Praised Mussolini and Supported Nazis: Meet Israel's First Fascists - Israel News - Haaretz.com (https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2019-07-20/ty-article-magazine/.premium/when-jews-praised-mussolini-and-supported-nazis-meet-israels-first-fascists/0000017f-dc71-d856-a37f-fdf1fb910000)

Ilhan Omar and Iran
Ilhan Omar equates women protesting Islamic law in Iran with abortion fight in US | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ilhan-omar-equates-women-protesting-islamic-law-iran-abortion-fight-us)

Israel and the conflict between Russia and Ukraine
Here's why Israel, one of the toughest militaries, isn't arming Ukraine despite a global push to do so. It's got another fight in focus. (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/heres-why-israel-one-toughest-233000063.html)

Kim Johnson's Apology in the House of Commons
Kim Johnson: Labour MP apologises for calling Israeli government 'fascist' - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64488473)

[blackchubby38]

That is a horrible thing to see, I hope you are not too upset. It is the kind of thing that can stay with you for years.

I'm okay, thanks for asking. Although it did remind me to keep my head on a swivel when crossing the street. Also, I find this eerie. This video was uploaded to YouTube three days after I made that post:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl9p1wrak6Y

[Stavros]

These guns are made for killin'
And that's just what they'll do
One of these days these guns
Are gonna kill each one of you...

The sick stunt of a sick party, or a warning of the future in store?

This is why some members of Congress have been seen wearing lapel pins resembling miniature AR-15 rifles (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/why-members-congress-seen-wearing-130707299.html)

[KnightHawk 2.0]

These guns are made for killin'
And that's just what they'll do
One of these days these guns
Are gonna kill each one of you...

The sick stunt of a sick party, or a warning of the future in store?

This is why some members of Congress have been seen wearing lapel pins resembling miniature AR-15 rifles (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/why-members-congress-seen-wearing-130707299.html)It is both,a despicable and disgusting stunt from a sick and atrocious party. And warning of a future in store.

[Stavros]

"Former President Donald Trump escalated his attacks on Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis Tuesday, seizing on a story that his rival for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination partied with underage students when he worked as a teacher at a Georgia high school."
Trump amplifies posts claiming DeSantis was 'grooming high school girls' (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/trump-amplifies-posts-claiming-desantis-was-grooming-high-school-girls-233428924.html)

Hmmm...is this the same Donald J. Trump who was best friends with Jeffrey Epstein? Can someone confirm that when Trump discovered Epstein's 'interest' in underage girls, he went straight to the cops to report on his buddy's illegal behaviour?

Just askin'.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

President Abraham Lincoln said the following doing the American Civil War,that a house divided againist itself cannot stand. That quote perfect describes today's US Government,during last night's State Of The Union Address,all 213 Democratic House Members including Vice President Kamala Harris stood up and applaud President Joe Biden,while the 222 Republican House Members and the spineless coward Kevin McCarthy remained in their seats. And it showed the differences between both caucuses,the Democrats are working for their constituents and want to continue to protect democracy and support the President,while the Republicans use their political power to launch fraudulent investigations into Joe Biden,his family and administration,and colleagues across the aisle and kick people off committee assignments and continue to show loyalty to their leader the MAGA King Donald Trump. Which is going to comeback and cost them the control of the House Of Representatives next year.

[Stavros]

I came across this long article on Hunter Biden and his 'laptop' -the laptop that doesn't exist, so really the 'hard drive' of which there are now multiple copies, some of them 'edited' by people with, shall we say, 'an agenda'. As the article states

"And for all the time they have spent scrutinizing his emails and his dick pics, Maxey and others have yet to find any incontrovertible evidence of criminality."
The Sordid Saga of Hunter Biden’s Laptop (nymag.com) (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/hunter-biden-laptop-investigation.html)

Can it be proven that Joe Biden benefited financially from his son's business deals in China and the Ukraine? I doubt it, but that is because of the demands of the law. Does the material exposed leave Hunter Biden with the image of a depressed man doing things with drugs and porn? Yes. Is that illegal? I don't think so.

For years, Trump couldn't get a licence to operate in China. Then he became President, and got his licence -how did that happen? And what about HIS sons, and their management of the 'Trump Organization' -which now doesn't exist, we are told. Double standards?

More pertinent, when is the contents of your hard drive legitimate public knowledge? If someone is a drug dealer, trading illegal porn, ie, breaking the law, then I guess the Courts have the right to take action -but the New York Post, or the Daily Mail?

[Luke Warm]

First of all, I don't know much about Ilhan Omar, and wonder if she is good at her job, that is, representing the people in her District. It seems to me that too many of the Congressional Representatives I read about are good at becoming media personalities, but I don't know how good they are as Representatives, and this goes for Marjorie Taylor Greene as well as Omar.

—————————-

Second, when I was a student of American politics and history, a long time ago now, I did a short study of Black American Politics, and my tutor pointed out that historically, Foreign Policy had been a concern for the Senate not the House, but that the increase in Black representation in the House and the co-ordinated campaign against Apartheid in South Africa had introduced Foreign Policy issues in the House where before they had not been prominent. Andrew Young was identified as a key player in this. Should the House be more concerned with Domestic, than Foreign Policy?
——————————-

Third, Congresswoman Omar is no more clever or stupid than most of the others I read about. She has condemned the response of Iran's govt to the protests there, though I am not sure if she has specifically referred to the Hijab- a version of which she wears- as an emblem of women's oppression. She has condemned the State of Israel but in the same sentence HAMAS, thus being another faded and jaded exponent of American appeasement, which in consequence trashes the rights of Palestinians for the sake of a strategic alliance, in much the same way the USA has supported Saudi Arabia in spite of its lamentable record on Human Rights, with the current regime under MbS chopping off more heads a week than ISIS managed. Whatever!
—————

On this basis, Ilhan Omar is a coward for not confronting the hypocrisy of the American political establishment, though one notes there are Americans who want a Fascist state of their own.


Your post is a confusing jumble that I suspect only makes sense to you, but I wanted to comment on your superficial comments about Ilhan Omar, and the silly idea that the US House of Representatives focuses on domestic policy, and leaves foreign affairs to the Senate. A “tutor” told you this? Alrighty then. If that was “historically true” for example in the 18th century, I don’t see how that is relevant to a contemporary discussion.

Ilhan Omar is (from what I have read, as someone who is interested in her) considered to be excellent at providing services to her constituents. There is a population of Somalis in her district but they are not a majority. She is being reelected for a reason, she delivers for the people in her district. The comparison to Marjorie Taylor Greene is ridiculous, it doesn’t hold water in any context.

Secondly, the idea that HAMAS or the theocratic government of Iran is above criticism is laughable. And if there is anyone who has the standing to make a criticism of HAMAS or the Iranian regime, it is a Muslim member of Congress. I read your Fox News link, and it didn’t illuminate any of the points you seem to be trying to make. The leaders of Iran are theocrats. The people behind rolling back women’s reproductive rights in the US are also theocrats. The purpose of the Fox News article is to rile up the right wing base because they will be offended by any comparison between Iran and the US, even when the comparison fits, and I wonder why you would post that link and what kind of point you imagined it was making.

I have no idea what “Ilhan Omar is a coward for not confronting the hypocrisy of the American political establishment” means. That’s like a bunch of hyperbolic word salad.

When you admitted that you don’t know much about Omar, that should have been an indication that maybe you should not include her in your ramblings. Think about how over-qualified you would have to be, to come to the US as a refugee, a black Muslim woman (three huge strikes against her, in our country) and rise through the ranks to be elected to Congress.

Sorry if that was harsh but your post as a whole was incomprehensible.

[Stavros]

I accept some of your critical remarks though I did suggest Ilhan Omar is good at her job -I just don't have any details. I think the main problem is that you see these issues from within the US and I see them as an external observer, albeit one with a background in the Middle East.

For this reason I find it difficult to comprehend why the US, having staked so much in the Middle East Peace Process and twice achieved historic peace treaties, in 1979 and 1993, appears to have abandoned the commitments it once made, giving Israel the freedom to both smash the peace treaty with the PLO to pieces, and to embark on policies, on the West Bank in particular that seem designed to provoke rather than lessen conflict. As I said, Netanyahu prefers war to peace, confrontation to negotiation, and with a weak Palestinian leadership has so far led Israel up a garden path, but not to any sane place or lasting solution.

Where are the Americans in the House or the Senate to condemn an Israel that has in effect, repudiated the Treaties the Americans helped negotiate and support? Is it really impossible to criticize a Fascist government because of its policies, without calling into question Israel's right to exist as a sovereign state? On that basis, Ilhan Omar is just as cowardly as the rest of her colleagues, she is terrified of taking sides, even though the US Govt since 1967 has done just that.

Russia is condemned for annexing Eastern Ukraine and attempting to annex the rest -where was the criticism in the US of Israel's annexation of the Golan Heights, or its de facto annexation of Palestinian territories? Are the two so different, setting aside the ludicrous rhetoric of Putin? One could also ask why it was that the US failed to take any action against Turkey when it invaded and occupied Northern Cyprus and why no serious effort has been made since then to evict them, and help negotiate a just solution to a divided country.

On the HAMAS question, when they won the election in Gaza in 2006 they offered talks with the Israeli Govt without any pre-conditions, which the Israeli Govt rejected, for the obvious reason that since Sharon and Netanyahu smashed it to pieces, the logic of the peace process was a trade off in land and mobility that neither of the two Nationalists could contemplate. But it means that Israel is where it was in 1967, occupying Palestinian territories that now contain 4 million people, with no idea how to develop this relationship. while endorsing the violent Settler Movement on the West Bank which further undermines peace in the area.

The US could put pressure on Israel by withdrawing the staggering sums of money it gets every year, by using the same sanctions it uses for other states such as Iran. And is Israel a 'strategic ally' of the US when it supports one dictatorship -Saudi Arabia- in its confrontation with another -Iran? I accept there has always been this problem of alliances States make which beg moral questions, but there is also the political fact that the US enables the survival of dictatorships like Saudi Arabia and in doing so fails to use its power to support any meaningful change in the region, though I accept it cannot do such things on its own. There is a lack of criticism in Congress, and thus no sense of direction, while the kind of politics and politicians that used to be impossible in the US are running the show in the region, though these days some US politicians also seem now to be keen on replacing their democracy with dictatorship.

As for Congress, I studied the US in the mid-1980s when I do think it was at least considered a convention that the Senate rather than the House concerned itself with Foreign Affairs.

[broncofan]

And if there is anyone who has the standing to make a criticism of HAMAS or the Iranian regime, it is a Muslim member of Congress. I read your Fox News link, and it didn’t illuminate any of the points you seem to be trying to make. The leaders of Iran are theocrats.


It's funny. I agree with many parts of your post and disagree with the same parts of Stavros' post you pulled out. I didn't find his post to be incomprehensible but probably unfair to Omar, who has in no way been a "both sides" type person because of her criticism of Hamas. She has been a steadfast critic of the occupation and of Israeli human rights violations. She has been unfairly castigated as antisemitic because she talks about the impact of lobbying (specifically AIPAC) on foreign policy and in my view has shown an independent mindset on a lot of foreign policy issues.

This is not a nitpick but she made a mistake in not voting to recognize the Armenian genocide. She made a statement implying that she recognizes it took place but that she believed the resolution was intended to serve as a "cudgel" against Turkey. In my view, the recognition of the Armenian genocide is important enough that questions of motives should not have influenced her decision and it was a bad call on her part. I'm not saying questions of politics don't play into these kinds of resolutions but it's important for humanity to recognize when more than a million people are murdered systematically in an attempt to eradicate that population.

I think one isolated point from my previous post is that some people are straining to find antisemitism from Omar, some on the right who are racist and don't actually care about antisemitism, when there is an explosion of antisemitism on the right in the form of all sorts of braindead conspiracy theories. From great replacement, to theories about Jews creating covid, pushing vaccines, to Jewish people "creating" transgender people (which is at least as transphobic as it is antisemitic), to full on acceptance by Republicans of people basically wanting to discuss the Jewish question.

Again, I don't think antisemitism is a unique prejudice on the right or more prevalent than other forms of prejudice (as a American Jew I don't want to give the impression I think for instance that it's anywhere near as bad as racism towards Black people or transphobia, which are frequently deadly and always despicable). For some time I would tend to see less of it in right wing circles or at least so coded it would be hard to detect. In the last year or so right wing pundits have really accelerated anti-lgbt animus and many are promoting antisemitism and trying to make it mainstream.

As a separate and worthwhile subject, the occupation of the West Bank and siege of Gaza causes enormous pain and degradation to Palestinians. That the occupation has been ongoing for more than 55 years is a disgrace. I think Omar has probably done as much as any congressperson, except maybe Betty Mccollum and Rashida Tlaib to speak openly about this, without concern for U.S. alliances and foreign policy entanglements.

[broncofan]

She has condemned the State of Israel but in the same sentence HAMAS, thus being another faded and jaded exponent of American appeasement, which in consequence trashes the rights of Palestinians for the sake of a strategic alliance,
I've never felt it's useful to avoid criticizing parties in order to make your criticism of the more culpable party in a bilateral conflict stronger. Sure, if she had only condemned Hamas in order to make her condemnations of Israel ineffectual that would be wrong, but often multiple parties deserve blame, contingent on what they do and when they do it.

For instance, I don't think Russia could be any more to blame for their invasion of Ukraine and the current conflict there. But if I'm shown evidence of Ukrainian soldiers committing war crimes against surrendering Russian soldiers, I would condemn it (edit: I'm not stating an opinion on whether it has occurred or how often as I don't know).

[Stavros]

As a separate and worthwhile subject, the occupation of the West Bank and siege of Gaza causes enormous pain and degradation to Palestinians. That the occupation has been ongoing for more than 55 years is a disgrace. I think Omar has probably done as much as any congressperson, except maybe Betty Mccollum and Rashida Tlaib to speak openly about this, without concern for U.S. alliances and foreign policy entanglements.

I accept your and Luke Warm's criticism of my post, I just don't know enough about Ilhan Omar to have made my point stick, for the most part.

What I find frustrating is that the US from the 1970s until the 1990s spent a great deal of time and eyewatering sums of money -most of which went to Israel- promoting the 'peace process', and in return, and in spite of two Treaties both signed under Democrat Presidents, Sharon and Netanyahu in effect said 'Fuck You America' with the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin and their combined intention to bury the peace process for good.
At this point the US in my opinion ought to have played 'hardball' and taken severe measures to punish Israel, petty though that might sound. And in the cases of Sharon and Netanyahu I doubt they would have cared anyway, they rely on a hard core of pro-Israeli Americans in the US -not all of the Jewish, in fact I think a lot of American Jews have become exasperated with the politics Netanyahu has pursued- but as is currently clear, they can also court the Russians as an alternative, as if daring the US to do something about that. The current make-up of the Netanyahu led coalition is already taking measures to promote settlement activity -knowing the US is going to complain but in practical terms do nothing- and attack Palestinians. The death toll on both sides is increasing and as long as there is no attempt by Israel to deal with the reality of living with 4 million Palestinians, this corrosion will continue.

I understand the dilemma -the US poured money into Pakistan when it was on the front line of the proxy war with the USSR in Afghanistan, and we know where that led, just as the US has been a robust supporter of Saudi Arabia regardless of 9/11 and the entirely negative -for the US- promotion of Wahabi ideology across the Middle East and in Asia. Given the twists and turns of the Khashoggi case, and the support the US (and the UK) has given to Saudi Arabia's unwinnable war in the Yemen, one has to ask how in fact the US has benefited from this. Iran is not changing, notwithstanding the popular protests that have erupted in recent months, and in part this is due to the confrontational position taken by Trump that reversed any gains the US had made under Obama, but which also means that the Yemen conflict shows no sign of ending, so that the US remains lumbered with the Saudi Arabian war unless Biden has some magic formula to bring both sides to the table.

Egypt's treaty with Israel began when Sadat made that lightning trip to Israel, just as the 1993 Treaty with the PLO began with secret talks in Oslo between Israelis and Palestinians -I see no evidence of the people on the ground seeking an end to the conflict, and with the most extreme govt in Israel's history in power -though we don't know for how long- it seems to me the US after nearly 60 years has become impotent, talk of a 'two-state' solution worn out and irrelevant, but with few voices in the US offering either an insight into this conflict or offer any proposals to end it.

Trump negotiated with the Taliban, and Biden made good on the US promise to leave -the result has not been good, though for what it's worth, there was always more support for the Taliban in the countryside, and the failures of successive corrupt Govts did not create the very kind of security regime the UK and other states funded via the UN from 2006. Analysts have been terrified for years of an implosion in Saudi Arabia because of its potential impact, and not just on oil production and prices, so I understand why the Americans keep hedging their bets.

But eventually one has to ask -where's the return on the investment?

[Stavros]

The Smartmatic case against Fox News has prompted this quote from Murdoch's company-

""There is nothing more newsworthy than covering the president of the United States and his lawyers making allegations of voter fraud," a Fox News spokesperson told Insider. "We are confident we will prevail as freedom of the press is foundational to our democracy and must be protected, in addition to the damages claims being outrageous, unsupported, and not rooted in sound financial analysis, serving as nothing more than a flagrant attempt to deter our journalists from doing their jobs.""
Rudy Giuliani gets hit with 2 more counts in Smartmatic's defamation lawsuit (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/rudy-giuliani-gets-hit-2-222014043.html)

But does Freedom of Speed trump the Freedom of the Individual -as in, their right to vote, and have their vote respected?

[Stavros]

"“What’s in America’s best interest? Is it to sit and wait for Abu Mazen [Abbas], a known terrorist who’s killed lots and lots of people, including Americans … to draw a line on a map? That’s what the state department would do,” he said.
“The previous secretary of state ran back and forth from Tel Aviv to Ramallah and tried to draw lines on a map. We said: ‘That’s not in America’s best interest. Let’s go create peace,’ and we did.”

Pompeo was part of the Trump administration team that negotiated the Abraham accords normalisation agreements between Israel and several formerly hostile countries, including the United Arab Emirates, Morocco and Sudan. At the time he said the accords were part of the administration’s efforts to ensure that “that this Jewish state remains”.

“I am confident that the Lord is at work here,” he said."
Pompeo says Israel has biblical claim to Palestine and is ‘not an occupying nation’ | Mike Pompeo | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/16/mike-pompeo-israel-biblical-claim-palestine-not-occupying)

That's odd. I spoke to God this morning, and God assures me Pompeo is an idiot. As for the 'known terrorist' Yitzhak Shamir, didn't he become Prime Minister years after assassinating Lord Moyne?
Yitzhak Shamir: Why we killed Lord Moyne | The Times of Israel (https://www.timesofisrael.com/yitzhak-shamir-why-we-killed-lord-moyne/)

[Stavros]

I think this is a fair assessment of the AP African American History course controversy. Just don't ask the parents what they want, not in Florida, where Ron De Santis knows what is best for everyone, though he has yet to learn how to use the word 'woke' in English.

The new AP African American Studies course has been consumed by politics. But what's actually being taught? (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/african-american-studies-ap-course-whats-being-taught-181400522.html)

[Stavros]

These two stories concern the Republicans and what seems to me to be their cruelty with regard to women. I would have thought the Democrats could campaign successfully against Republicans who seem determined to inflict as much pain and humiliation on women as they can, as if they enjoy causing harm. In the abortion case, it is surely only a sick mockery for De Santis to use words like 'Pro-life' for a foetus that is not going to survive and indeed, because of the abnormality in its gestation is going to suffocate to death -more like Pro-Death. One wonders if De Santis and that cruel moron in Texas have ever seen a baby die.

As for the menstruation obsession, maybe the day is coming when Republicans will demand that women be confined to home during their menstrual cycle.

Shameful, from a party of sick people.

Florida couple unable to get abortion will see baby die after delivery | Abortion | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/18/florida-abortion-law-couple-birth)

Va. Republicans shelve bill to protect menstrual data from search warrants (nbcnews.com) (https://www.nbcnews.com/health/womens-health/va-republicans-shelve-bill-protect-menstrual-data-search-warrants-rcna71167)

[KnightHawk 2.0]

These two stories concern the Republicans and what seems to me to be their cruelty with regard to women. I would have thought the Democrats could campaign successfully against Republicans who seem determined to inflict as much pain and humiliation on women as they can, as if they enjoy causing harm. In the abortion case, it is surely only a sick mockery for De Santis to use words like 'Pro-life' for a foetus that is not going to survive and indeed, because of the abnormality in its gestation is going to suffocate to death -more like Pro-Death. One wonders if De Santis and that cruel moron in Texas have ever seen a baby die.

As for the menstruation obsession, maybe the day is coming when Republicans will demand that women be confined to home during their menstrual cycle.

Shameful, from a party of sick people.

Florida couple unable to get abortion will see baby die after delivery | Abortion | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/feb/18/florida-abortion-law-couple-birth)

Va. Republicans shelve bill to protect menstrual data from search warrants (nbcnews.com) (https://www.nbcnews.com/health/womens-health/va-republicans-shelve-bill-protect-menstrual-data-search-warrants-rcna71167)Agree it is shameful from a party of sick people,who claim to be pro-life.

[Stavros]

1960s -or the 1760s?

A New Hampshire GOP national committeewoman says 'there are people' in the party who 'want to put women back into the 1960s' (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/hampshire-gop-national-committeewoman-says-011147745.html)

[KnightHawk 2.0]

1960s -or the 1760s?

A New Hampshire GOP national committeewoman says 'there are people' in the party who 'want to put women back into the 1960s' (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/hampshire-gop-national-committeewoman-says-011147745.html)Not surprised at all,and this is the same party who fully embraced the MAGA King Donald Trump's despicable and disgusting political veiws,and enabled his unhinged behavior for over 6 years.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Lauren-Ultra MAGA Karen-Boebert gets torched on the House Floor by Jamie Raskin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7t_cO3XsJo

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Lauren-Ultra MAGA Karen-Boebert gets torched on the House Floor by Jamie Raskin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7t_cO3XsJo And Marjorie-Qanon Bimbo-Taylor Greene makes a fool of herself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxYobD5ECbE

[Stavros]

It is easy enough to ridicule MTG, but of greater concern is the way in which her relentless attacks and their reporting normalize the narrative she is addicted to as is also the case with Kari Lake and DJ Trump himself.

The media has given them the permissive environment in which to undermine democracy, but as there is no longer any Fair Broadcasting regulations why do the media even show up at CPAC or Trump's rallies or Kari Lake's explosions of rage -given the way they are attacked even threatened? Why not stay away or, of Lake hurls insults at 'those bastard' -just turn the cameras off, pack up and leave. How soon after when nobody is reporting on them, will these enemies of democracy more or less beg the media to report on them?

We now have Republicans in Florida calling for the 'eradication' of Transgenderism, whatever that is; the legal right of the State to remove transgender children from their families. and even a proposed Bill that would, in effect, ban the Democrats as a legitimate political party. A lot of this is hot air and will not become policy, but things are now said in public that would have been inconceivable 20 years ago. Can anything be done about it?

[KnightHawk 2.0]

It is easy enough to ridicule MTG, but of greater concern is the way in which her relentless attacks and their reporting normalize the narrative she is addicted to as is also the case with Kari Lake and DJ Trump himself.

The media has given them the permissive environment in which to undermine democracy, but as there is no longer any Fair Broadcasting regulations why do the media even show up at CPAC or Trump's rallies or Kari Lake's explosions of rage -given the way they are attacked even threatened? Why not stay away or, of Lake hurls insults at 'those bastard' -just turn the cameras off, pack up and leave. How soon after when nobody is reporting on them, will these enemies of democracy more or less beg the media to report on them?

We now have Republicans in Florida calling for the 'eradication' of Transgenderism, whatever that is; the legal right of the State to remove transgender children from their families. and even a proposed Bill that would, in effect, ban the Democrats as a legitimate political party. A lot of this is hot air and will not become policy, but things are now said in public that would have been inconceivable 20 years ago. Can anything be done about it?The News Media needs to stop giving the MAGA Party attention,because the more attention they give,the more despicable and disgusting things they say. And if the News Media stops giving them airtime,the MAGA Party would become irrelevant. Yes it can be,and it start by voting them out of office when they're up for re-election.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

The MAGA Party speeches on the house floor backfires again,and shows what they stand for,which is to whitewash about what really happened on Wednesday January 6th 2021,and continues to spread lies and misinformation,and refusal to denounce white nationalism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvHTHlavtos&list=PL36GQAccexbyp3e4IZC1KVzqLgIaSuKC0&index=1

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Kevin-Spineless Coward-McCarthy plot to force all Capitol Visitors to watch FOX News aka MAGA Propaganda Channel is despicable and disgusting,shows how little he and his caucus respect their constituents intelligence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se1e8UtkNlk&list=PL36GQAccexbyp3e4IZC1KVzqLgIaSuKC0&index=7

[Stavros]

The point about Newton Gingrich's politics is that once you obtain power, you must only use it for yourself and your party. it is the equivalent of being in a One Party State. Anything proposed by the 'other side' is to be classed as 'anti-American' or any other hysterical label designed to strike fear into the people -'Ultra Leftist', 'Marxist' and so on. Compromise is surrender. and defeat. McCarthy voted against the right of the American people to choose their President in a free and fair election, what else do you need to know?

Are the Democrats in power any different? The rhetoric might be.

[Stavros]

"Republican lawmakers in several US states have introduced legislation proposing homicide and other criminal charges for those seeking abortion care.
...A bill in Alabama has also been announced, although not yet been introduced, by Republican representative Ernest Yarbrough, that would establish fetal personhood from conception andrepeal a section of Alabama’s abortion ban that expressly prevents homicide charges for abortion. The state’s current law makes abortion a class A felony, on the same level as homicide, but exempts women seeking abortions from being held criminally or civilly liable."
Republicans push wave of bills that would bring homicide charges for abortion | US news | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/10/republican-wave-state-bills-homicide-charges)

So if a fetus fails to gestate normally, and is so lacking in the actuality of life that a surgical abortion would be permitted -but in the case of a fetus which grew without a head, as happened in Texas, where such an abortion was denied- who is to perform the abortion? Because whoever does it must by definition of the proposed Bill be murdering an American citizen -? Or should the State take ownership of the 'person' in the womb?

This is an attack on women, not the preservation of life. Will these Bills pass? Not sure, but what is odd is that it has already been seen as a vote loser, so are Republicans now just completely indifferent to public opinion? Or maybe if they lose elections on this issue they will waste hours of time and millions of dollars fighting a 'rigged election' in Courts?

[KnightHawk 2.0]

"Republican lawmakers in several US states have introduced legislation proposing homicide and other criminal charges for those seeking abortion care.
...A bill in Alabama has also been announced, although not yet been introduced, by Republican representative Ernest Yarbrough, that would establish fetal personhood from conception andrepeal a section of Alabama’s abortion ban that expressly prevents homicide charges for abortion. The state’s current law makes abortion a class A felony, on the same level as homicide, but exempts women seeking abortions from being held criminally or civilly liable."
Republicans push wave of bills that would bring homicide charges for abortion | US news | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/10/republican-wave-state-bills-homicide-charges)

So if a fetus fails to gestate normally, and is so lacking in the actuality of life that a surgical abortion would be permitted -but in the case of a fetus which grew without a head, as happened in Texas, where such an abortion was denied- who is to perform the abortion? Because whoever does it must by definition of the proposed Bill be murdering an American citizen -? Or should the State take ownership of the 'person' in the womb?

This is an attack on women, not the preservation of life. Will these Bills pass? Not sure, but what is odd is that it has already been seen as a vote loser, so are Republicans now just completely indifferent to public opinion? Or maybe if they lose elections on this issue they will waste hours of time and millions of dollars fighting a 'rigged election' in Courts?Agree 1000% that legislation Republicans are proposing is an attack on Women and their reproductive rights,and is despicable and cruel and it's not the preservation of life. Politicians shouldn't be telling women what to do with their bodies. The american people should a message to the Republicans by voting them out of office when they're up for re-election.

[Stavros]

Children separated from their parents by law enforcement, the friends of women helping her obtain an abortion being sued for 'murder'- I can't believe the majority of Americans would support these actions, so how are the majority going to fight back to restore decency and sanity to the US? Because I don't see it happening.

Police stopped a Black couple in Tennessee – and took their children | Tennessee | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/18/police-stopped-a-couple-in-tennessee-then-they-took-their-children-away)

Can you believe this is even law?
"“Under the law of Texas, a person who assists a pregnant woman in obtaining a self-managed abortion has committed the crime of murder and can be sued for wrongful death”".

Are Texas’s abortion laws being used for state-sponsored spousal harassment? | Arwa Mahdawi | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/18/are-texass-abortion-laws-being-used-for-state-sponsored-spousal-harassment)

[filghy2]

Nearly 30 years after the infamous cult disaster in Waco, we have another wacko cult gathering in the same place.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/opinion/trump-sings-a-song-of-sedition/ar-AA199eXG?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=a6367b61462a4e81a15f0defdec0a003&ei=9

[Stavros]

So a candidate for the Presidency holds a rally. Does he talk about the environment? Homelessness? Transport, Education, Banking, Abortion, Gun Control, China, Russia, Ukraine, the EU...? Nah, just himself. As usual. Apparently even Fox News is getting tired of it.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

So a candidate for the Presidency holds a rally. Does he talk about the environment? Homelessness? Transport, Education, Banking, Abortion, Gun Control, China, Russia, Ukraine, the EU...? Nah, just himself. As usual. Apparently even Fox News is getting tired of it.The MAGA King does what he always does at his campaign rallies,which is talking about himself and playing the victim card,airing out his grievances,spreading misinformation and conspiracy theories and attacking people who are investigating him. And riling up his base. And even The Propaganda News Channel is getting tired of his act.

[Stavros]

And even The Propaganda News Channel is getting tired of his act.


They must also confront the simple truth: Trump has never won an election, and he is not going to -not legitimately. We are, I think, seeing the end of Boris Johnson in the UK. His cherished Brexit project has failed, most people now think it was a mistake to leave the EU. Because of his arrogance and lies, Johnson's career in politics is in shreds. I think, but don't know, that the court cases are going to weaken Trump's position, though I think the case concerning fraudulent statements on his New York properties is the most serious for him, because if he loses, he loses money and property rights, and that is his obsession. He has got away with stuff for decades, but maybe this time the canary is going to sing. We live in hope.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

They must also confront the simple truth: Trump has never won an election, and he is not going to -not legitimately. We are, I think, seeing the end of Boris Johnson in the UK. His cherished Brexit project has failed, most people now think it was a mistake to leave the EU. Because of his arrogance and lies, Johnson's career in politics is in shreds. I think, but don't know, that the court cases are going to weaken Trump's position, though I think the case concerning fraudulent statements on his New York properties is the most serious for him, because if he loses, he loses money and property rights, and that is his obsession. He has got away with stuff for decades, but maybe this time the canary is going to sing. We live in hope.Completely agree that the Propaganda News Channel will have to confront the truth the MAGA King Donald Trump has never won an election,and he isn't going too legitimately. And also agree that if the MAGA King loses,he'll lose his money and property rights and that is he obsession .He has gotten away with doing illegal activities for decades,and i also think that the canary is going to sing. Indeed we do.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Nearly 30 years after the infamous cult disaster in Waco, we have another wacko cult gathering in the same place.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/opinion/trump-sings-a-song-of-sedition/ar-AA199eXG?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=a6367b61462a4e81a15f0defdec0a003&ei=9The Cult Of The MAGA King Donald Trump. Not surprised at all that he chose to have a campaign rally/cult gathering in Waco Texas. Shows what he stands for.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Like the old adage goes,when someone shows you who they are believe them. That perfectly describes the MAGA Party who consists of Bigots,Conspiracy Theorists,Charlatans,Xenophobes and Racists who pulled a political stunt last Friday when they visited a DC Jail and met with the January 6th Insurrectionists who stormed the Capitol,claiming that they are patriots and prisoners of war,is which is bunch of bullshit. It was really another attempt to whitewash what happened on January 6th. This is the same party that voted to overturn the 2020 Presidental Election,refused to denounce white nationalism,overturining Roe.v.Wade and getting rid of women's reproductive rights,passing voter suppression laws making harder for minorities to vote. And who are completely silent whenever there's a mass shooting and only offer hollow thoughts and prayers,which they can stick up their asses because they're insincere. The Democrats need to continue to call them out for their complacency and silence and the american people to vote them out of office,and elect politicians who is going to fight for them and put country over party.

[Stavros]

There may be no surprise that Africa is a paradise for homophobic bigots, but deep into this report is the claim that behind it all are American Evangelists. I once read the same militants had gone to Russia after the fall of Communism to 'save' the people there...some of you may have come across the book I Found God in Soviet Russia (John H, Noble, 1970). They never stop.


Ugandan president calls on Africa to ‘save the world from homosexuality’ | Global development | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2023/apr/03/ugandan-president-calls-on-africa-to-save-the-world-from-homosexuality)

[Stavros]

Are Republicans really so out of touch with the citizens of their own country? This, from former Governor of Wisconsin, Scott Walker-

""Younger voters are the issue,” Walker, who served as governor from 2011 to 2019 and was an early frontrunner (https://www.cnn.com/2015/03/05/politics/2016-election-poll-scott-walker-jeb-bush-hillary-clinton/index.html) for the Republican presidential nomination in 2016, said Thursday on Twitter (https://twitter.com/ScottWalker/status/1644079204722704384).
“It comes from years of radical indoctrination — on campus, in school, with social media, & throughout culture,” he wrote, alongside a clip from a Fox News interview in which he elaborated on this theory. “We have to counter it or conservatives will never win battleground states again.”"
Republicans grapple with youth vote struggles after key Wisconsin loss (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/republicans-young-voter-struggles-scott-walker-wisconsin-supreme-court-protasiewicz-203505242.html)

'Never again' -the desperate, terrified response to a vote, as if the State was on the brink of collapse. As for young people deciding for themselves, where is the indoctrination? And what is Walker's alternative policy slate, other than the half-baked or socially offensive policies on, say Abortion, which are not just opposed by young people but a majority of Americans?

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Are Republicans really so out of touch with the citizens of their own country? This, from former Governor of Wisconsin, Scott Walker-

""Younger voters are the issue,” Walker, who served as governor from 2011 to 2019 and was an early frontrunner (https://www.cnn.com/2015/03/05/politics/2016-election-poll-scott-walker-jeb-bush-hillary-clinton/index.html) for the Republican presidential nomination in 2016, said Thursday on Twitter (https://twitter.com/ScottWalker/status/1644079204722704384).
“It comes from years of radical indoctrination — on campus, in school, with social media, & throughout culture,” he wrote, alongside a clip from a Fox News interview in which he elaborated on this theory. “We have to counter it or conservatives will never win battleground states again.”"
Republicans grapple with youth vote struggles after key Wisconsin loss (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/republicans-young-voter-struggles-scott-walker-wisconsin-supreme-court-protasiewicz-203505242.html)

'Never again' -the desperate, terrified response to a vote, as if the State was on the brink of collapse. As for young people deciding for themselves, where is the indoctrination? And what is Walker's alternative policy slate, other than the half-baked or socially offensive policies on, say Abortion, which are not just opposed by young people but a majority of Americans?And that is one of the reasons why the MAGA Party keep losing elections,the other reasons are: Keep defending their leader the MAGA King Donald Trump,embracing bigotry,racism,conspiracy theories,and driving young voters away.

[Stavros]

Moms for Liberty -but who defines what Liberty is? One wonders what Orwell would make of this. Looks like a front organization for extreme Republicans and the sort of people who get their 'news' from Breitbart.

Illustrated Anne Frank book removed by Florida school (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/graphic-version-anne-frank-book-170246601.html)

Moms for Liberty - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moms_for_Liberty)

WARNING! Link contains graphic material that may upset Moms for Liberty

Anne Frank's Diary /GRAPHIC Novel Adaptation by Ari Folman Illustration by David Polonsky ภาษาอังกฤษ - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czpO8x0BevY)

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Moms for Liberty -but who defines what Liberty is? One wonders what Orwell would make of this. Looks like a front organization for extreme Republicans and the sort of people who get their 'news' from Breitbart.

Illustrated Anne Frank book removed by Florida school (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/graphic-version-anne-frank-book-170246601.html)

Moms for Liberty - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moms_for_Liberty)

WARNING! Link contains graphic material that may upset Moms for Liberty

Anne Frank's Diary /GRAPHIC Novel Adaptation by Ari Folman Illustration by David Polonsky ภาษาอังกฤษ - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czpO8x0BevY)Completely agree Moms For Liberty does looks like a front organization for the MAGA Party.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Marjorie-Qanon Bimbo-Taylor Greene said the following: Why are we arresting American Citizens for espionage ,when Mexicans from Mexico coming over here to take our husbands. Her tweet shows she's racist and uneducated,who is as dumb as a doorknob who loves and defends people who commit espionage and treason,and doesn't know how the laws of the United States work. And Liz Cheney is absolutely right,MQBTG should have her security clearance revoked.

[Stavros]

Marjorie-Qanon Bimbo-Taylor Greene said the following: Why are we arresting American Citizens for espionage ,when Mexicans from Mexico coming over here to take our husbands. Her tweet shows she's racist and uneducated,who is as dumb as a doorknob who loves and defends people who commit espionage and treason,and doesn't know how the laws of the United States work. And Liz Cheney is absolutely right,MQBTG should have her security clearance revoked.

So what will you do when Donald chooses her as his 'running mate' (define at your pleasure) and in a rigged election she is a heart-beat away from being America's Boss Lady? Exit, Voice, or Loyalty?

[KnightHawk 2.0]

So what will you do when Donald chooses her as his 'running mate' (define at your pleasure) and in a rigged election she is a heart-beat away from being America's Boss Lady? Exit, Voice, or Loyalty?By using my voice,and doing everything i can to make sure those two never get elected President and Vice President of the United States,because it will be a hell of alot worse than his first term.

[Stavros]

This is an interesting article, but it merely shows how confused American Conservatives have been when trying to define what they mean by the word 'Conservative'. The Heritage Foundation is now re-thinking its position on Free Markets, State Intervention, and Individual Liberty, but these issues have been part of their wrestling match for most of the Republic's life.

For the Railroad transformed the country at a time when it was expanding to the West -but who paid for it, entrepreneurs and free market companies? No -the taxpayer. And who built the system? For the most part, Chinese immigrants, and what happened to them when the lines were done?

The industrial boom of the last quarter of the 19th century saw the spectacular wealth creation of the 'Robber Barons' -Rockefeller, Carnegie, Mellon, JP Morgan et al -and the passing of the anti-trust 'Sherman Act' in 1890 which in 1911 broke up Rockefeller's empire -from Free Markets to State Intervention because apparently if a Free Market creates a Monopoly, it ain't good for Capitalism -but if, as Reagan said, 'Government is not the solution, Government is the problem' should the Fed have intervened at all? Don't ask a Conservative you will get three answers, and counting.

And since when did the Fed subsidize US Agriculture at a cost of billions of $$$ a year? For as long as I can recall.

There may be a debate about what the difference is, between a Conservative and a Libertarian, it has plagued the English party since the 1840s; and we have seen how Boris Johnson and Donald Trump have created in their 'Conservative' parties, parties of radical change, a contradiction in terms if ever there was one, but this debate will run and run, precisely because there is no precise definition of Conservative.

Or they should change the words they use to describe themselves, just as the Labour Party is no longer a Socialist party here.

Anyway, worth aread-

One of the most important conservative think tanks is changing its tune on the free market and state power to keep up with the 'New Right' ushered in by Trump and DeSantis (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/one-most-important-conservative-think-112000958.html)

[broncofan]

By using my voice,and doing everything i can to make sure those two never get elected President and Vice President of the United States,because it will be a hell of alot worse than his first term.
That's all we can do! This is a good question for non-Americans as well. What would you do if you were in our shoes? It's very difficult to move somewhere else. I'm middle-aged, not wealthy enough not to work (not to mention the fact that there are people I care about who live here and can't move), and don't have skills that can easily transfer to another country. I will donate where I can, I will volunteer where I can, and I will vote.

Given what Jack Teixeira did, the fact that the group he was in was a group of right-wing creeps who routinely made all sorts of dehumanizing racist commnents, it's scary that Republicans can't unequivocally condemn this. He is not a whistleblower by any stretch of the imagination. The number of outlandish, insane things that Republicans have defended has me more than concerned. There's also the fact that there are millions of people who watch Tucker Carlson who is trying to spin this on Fox News.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

That's all we can do! This is a good question for non-Americans as well. What would you do if you were in our shoes? It's very difficult to move somewhere else. I'm middle-aged, not wealthy enough not to work (not to mention the fact that there are people I care about who live here and can't move), and don't have skills that can easily transfer to another country. I will donate where I can, I will volunteer where I can, and I will vote.

Given what Jack Teixeira did, the fact that the group he was in was a group of right-wing creeps who routinely made all sorts of dehumanizing racist commnents, it's scary that Republicans can't unequivocally condemn this. He is not a whistleblower by any stretch of the imagination. The number of outlandish, insane things that Republicans have defended has me more than concerned. There's also the fact that there are millions of people who watch Tucker Carlson who is trying to spin this on Fox News. And i will also donate and volunteer where i can,and will vote to make sure that the MAGA King and the Qanon Bimbo never get elected to the White House. It is very disturbing that the US Air National Guard had someone like him enlisted,and agree it is scary that the MAGA Party can't unequivocally condemn what Jack Teixeira did,who is a right wing racist traitor,who committed espionage and treason,and is no whistleblower. I am also very concerned about the number of outlandish,insane and batshit crazy things that the MAGA Party has defended. And it is also very concerning that millions of people who watch that conspiracy theorist Tucker Carlson who is trying to spin this narrative on the Propaganda News Channel.

[filghy2]

That's all we can do! This is a good question for non-Americans as well. What would you do if you were in our shoes?

I'm afraid I don't have any good suggestions, other than to cite the old Irish Joke: If I wanted to go there I wouldn't be starting from where you are. It must be very disconcerting to realise that the foundations of your country that you had taken for granted previously are now on shaky ground.

The good news is that most independent voters obviously dislike Trump and the MAGA extremists, and he doesn't seem likely to do much to win them over. If they keep their focus on the danger you should be safe. The obvious risk is that there will be a recession that helps the Republicans. And as people have pointed out, if democracy depends on Democrats winning every election then you are on borrowed time.

[filghy2]

Given what Jack Teixeira did, the fact that the group he was in was a group of right-wing creeps who routinely made all sorts of dehumanizing racist commnents, it's scary that Republicans can't unequivocally condemn this.

What puzzles me about this leak is how such a junior member of the military was able to access such a range of highly sensitive material. The safeguards seem to have been quite slack.

I get the impression that Carlson and MTG are happy with these leak because they think is will undermine the defence of Ukraine against Putin. The security agencies will have a nightmare if she is ever VP.

[Stavros]

"The Trump-appointed judge that ruled last week that the FDA’s approval of an abortion pill drug was unconstitutional reportedly concealed a transphobic and anti-abortion article from the Senate that he helped produce".

This is the part of the report I find curious -are these not the same people who attack 'the left' for its 'cancel culture', 'safe spaces' and 'trigger warnings'??

"According to the article, the United States Department of Health and Human Services rule barring discrimination against patients seeking gender-affirming care or abortions “did not provide a safe harbor” for physicians of various religions “who cannot use their scalpels to make female what God created male, cannot use their syringes to feminize biological males or masculinize biological females, and cannot use their pens to prescribe or dispense abortifacient drugs designed to kill unborn children.” "
Report: Judge That Ruled Against FDA-Approved Abortion Pill Hid Controversial Article From Senate (yahoo.com) (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/report-judge-ruled-against-fda-014246897.html)

So the physician using a scalpel that removes the foreskin of the Penis that Almighty God created has gone against Almighty God's design?

A 'Safe Harbour'? Surely physicians take an oath to practise medicine regardless of the patient's identity, condition and so on, and not because of the Physician's personal views? Texas doesn't sound like a 'Safe Harbour' for anyone these days. But will this Judge face any kind of censure?

[filghy2]

There's something seriously wrong with a country where people are being shot and killed for innocent things like going to the wrong car or house. Why do some people think it's be justifiable to shoot impulsively when there are alternatives to shooting, especially when it comes to black people who they are conditioned to see as dangerous?

https://www.vox.com/policy/2023/4/20/23691573/stand-your-ground-gun-laws-ralph-yarl-andrew-lester-kaylin-gillis-payton-washington

[Stavros]

We live in a post-Cartesian world. 'I shoot, therefore I am'.

[Stavros]

The cruelty and the confusion continues with this grim exchange in Ohio. A 10-year old girl becomes pregnant after being raped, and the head of Cincinnati Right to Life deplores the abortion that followed, in the State of Indiana because it could not be done in Ohio.

In addition to the cruelty that is involved in this case, the woman who opposes abortion can't seem to make a distinction between a 10-year old child and a woman, which makes one wonder if she thinks it is impossible for a woman to have a penis, and so on.

"“While a pregnancy might have been difficult on a 10-year-old body, a woman’s body is designed to carry life. That is a biological fact,” Strietmann said, referring to a child victim as a woman for political convenience."
Anti-Abortion Activist on 10-Year-Old Rape Victim: ‘A Woman’s Body Is Designed to Carry Life’ (yahoo.com) (https://news.yahoo.com/anti-abortion-activist-10-old-201500389.html)

A body designed to 'carry life' -what about the person? The child with feelings and a brain whose primary focus at the age of 10 should be on education and enjoying life? There is something deeply wrong with the 'Right to Life' people, and I think a lot of Americans are concerned at the judgments they make, and what appears to be an assault on pregnant women and girls. It may be cases like this that loses votes for Republicans, one hopes so.

[broncofan]

There's something seriously wrong with a country where people are being shot and killed for innocent things like going to the wrong car or house. Why do some people think it's be justifiable to shoot impulsively when there are alternatives to shooting, especially when it comes to black people who they are conditioned to see as dangerous?

https://www.vox.com/policy/2023/4/20/23691573/stand-your-ground-gun-laws-ralph-yarl-andrew-lester-kaylin-gillis-payton-washington
There's no question people are conditioned (through mass media, news, etc) to see Black people as dangerous but I also think these laws (the article mentions stand your ground and castle doctrine) condition people to try to rationalize all violence as self-defense. You see a video of someone mouthing or getting a little aggressive and then they get beaten half to death and there are people in the comments section who think it's legally or morally justified. Even with these doctrines (the castle doctrine and stand your ground) people often try to justify violence that these doctrines don't. But I think the cultural effect of making people think self-defense is not a defense of absolute necessity, with a mandatory requirement of proportionality is that people want to use violence when it feels good. Give somebody a comeuppance. Or respond to light force with mayhem.

The Ralph Yarl case is as your post indicates an example of pure racism. It shouldn't matter that Ralph is a very nice kid, a diligent student and musician (he'd still be a victim if he didn't seem so great). But I feel this also makes complete nonsense out of Andrew Lester's claim he was scared or intimidated. He saw a Black teenager at his front door and it triggered feelings of anger, which combined with a weapon and an 84 year old brain full of Fox News dogwhistles led to a horrible outcome. Ralph survived but he was shot in the head and the arm after he had already been shot in the head. Just a sad and despicable case.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

There's no question people are conditioned (through mass media, news, etc) to see Black people as dangerous but I also think these laws (the article mentions stand your ground and castle doctrine) condition people to try to rationalize all violence as self-defense. You see a video of someone mouthing or getting a little aggressive and then they get beaten half to death and there are people in the comments section who think it's legally or morally justified. Even with these doctrines (the castle doctrine and stand your ground) people often try to justify violence that these doctrines don't. But I think the cultural effect of making people think self-defense is not a defense of absolute necessity, with a mandatory requirement of proportionality is that people want to use violence when it feels good. Give somebody a comeuppance. Or respond to light force with mayhem.

The Ralph Yarl case is as your post indicates an example of pure racism. It shouldn't matter that Ralph is a very nice kid, a diligent student and musician (he'd still be a victim if he didn't seem so great). But I feel this also makes complete nonsense out of Andrew Lester's claim he was scared or intimidated. He saw a Black teenager at his front door and it triggered feelings of anger, which combined with a weapon and an 84 year old brain full of Fox News dogwhistles led to a horrible outcome. Ralph survived but he was shot in the head and the arm after he had already been shot in the head. Just a sad and despicable case. Completely Agree it is a sad and despicable case,and damn sure not buying Andrew Lester's claim about him being scared and intimidated,and his actions is unjustifiable.

[Stavros]

So, farewell then, Tucker Carlson.

Did he go of his own accord, or was he sacked? And is it important to know what people like him are thinking, to keep track on the trajectory of their politics?

Where can he go now?

Is it even important?

[MrFanti]

And people have been conditioned to see us as monolithic.


There's no question people are conditioned (through mass media, news, etc) to see Black people as dangerous but I also think these laws (the article mentions stand your ground and castle doctrine) condition people to try to rationalize all violence as self-defense. You see a video of someone mouthing or getting a little aggressive and then they get beaten half to death and there are people in the comments section who think it's legally or morally justified. Even with these doctrines (the castle doctrine and stand your ground) people often try to justify violence that these doctrines don't. But I think the cultural effect of making people think self-defense is not a defense of absolute necessity, with a mandatory requirement of proportionality is that people want to use violence when it feels good. Give somebody a comeuppance. Or respond to light force with mayhem.

The Ralph Yarl case is as your post indicates an example of pure racism. It shouldn't matter that Ralph is a very nice kid, a diligent student and musician (he'd still be a victim if he didn't seem so great). But I feel this also makes complete nonsense out of Andrew Lester's claim he was scared or intimidated. He saw a Black teenager at his front door and it triggered feelings of anger, which combined with a weapon and an 84 year old brain full of Fox News dogwhistles led to a horrible outcome. Ralph survived but he was shot in the head and the arm after he had already been shot in the head. Just a sad and despicable case.

[filghy2]

So, farewell then, Tucker Carlson.

Did he go of his own accord, or was he sacked? And is it important to know what people like him are thinking, to keep track on the trajectory of their politics?

Where can he go now?

Is it even important?

It's intriguing. Reports suggest Rupert Murdoch decided to fire him. It doesn't seem likely to be related to the Dominion suit, given other Fox presenters went further in promoting the Big Lie.

Possibly some of the directions he was taking were too much even for the Murdochs. This article argues that what made him different from other Fox presenters is that he was trying to promote a "national conservative" ideology rather than just cheerleading for Trump and the Republican Party. The Murdochs might be concerned that this could ultimately undermine their interests rather than serving them.
https://www.vox.com/politics/2023/4/24/23696053/tucker-carlson-exit-fox-news-populism

If so, it may be shutting the door after the horse has bolted. I'm sure Carlson will find a role elsewhere in the right-wing media ecosystem.

[Stavros]

I have shifted a Carlson comment on filghy2's post above to the Murdoch thread.

[broncofan]

And people have been conditioned to see us as monolithic.
Nothing in that post suggests as much. I don't know why you insist on repeating yourself. You've said previously that you're Black and don't have the same views that some people assume Black people have. But where did I suggest Black people are monolithic?

[filghy2]

You know the Fanti rule: if somebody mentions a problem with guns, change the subject.

[blackchubby38]

You know, there is something fitting about both of them being fired on the same day.


As Carlson and Lemon Exit, a Chapter Closes on Cable’s Trump War


/www.nytimes.com/2023/04/25/technology/tucker-carlson-don-lemon.html

[Stavros]

I was going to ask who Dan Lemon is, as I don't know. I think I read he made insulting remarks about Nikki Haley. Again: is it important? These people come and go, like some of the BBC journalists who have been and gone. And are soon forgotten.

[MrFanti]

Nothing in that post suggests as much. I don't know why you insist on repeating yourself. You've said previously that you're Black and don't have the same views that some people assume Black people have. But where did I suggest Black people are monolithic?
Read my post carefully...
Did I say YOU suggested that? Nope...

I keep repeating myself because whenever the term "Black People" is uses to make a statement, we've already been categorically made monolithic.....And yes, we also do this to ourselves (me as well)......

Relax dude.....

[filghy2]

I keep repeating myself because whenever the term "Black People" is uses to make a statement, we've already been categorically made monolithic

You see a story saying black people are particularly affected by trigger-happy shootings and your only response is to complain about this? Weird.

[broncofan]

Read my post carefully...
Did I say YOU suggested that? Nope...

I keep repeating myself because whenever the term "Black People" is uses to make a statement, we've already been categorically made monolithic.....And yes, we also do this to ourselves (me as well)......

Relax dude.....
I'm not upset or agitated but I just don't think I said anything that implies I think Black people all believe the same thing.

The only purpose race had in my post was to say I think Ralph Yarl was shot because he's Black and the guy who shot him is a racist. I still believe that.

Also, it is not true that whenever someone says the words "Black people" it means they assume Black people are monolithic. That's why you have to read what people say. This heuristic of yours is not a great one. If someone says "some Black people believe" it means they don't think Black people are monolithic. Why? Because it implies they realize not every Black person believes the same thing. Ditto if they say "most Black people vote for Democrats". This has been your complaint in the past, but this also doesn't assume Black people are monolithic for the obvious reason that it implies there is dissent within the community but one viewpoint is more popular than another. If someone says "some racists perceive Black people to be", it doesn't mean the speaker views Black people as monolithic. It might mean they think racists view Black people that way etc.

[broncofan]

anyway i'm tired. i denied being agitated but if I am agitated it's because I don't think you addressed the substance of what i said about Ralph Yarl. I also feel like we talk at cross purposes and wonder whether it's worth it.

[KnightHawk 2.0]

Not surprised at all that Kevin-Spineless Coward-McCarthy failed in his big test as speaker,when he folded like a lawnchair and gave into the demands of the MAGA Caucus{ the people he sold his soul too}. And their so called debt limit bill that they past by party line will be dead on arrival in the US Senate.

[Stavros]

anyway i'm tired. i denied being agitated but if I am agitated it's because I don't think you addressed the substance of what i said about Ralph Yarl. I also feel like we talk at cross purposes and wonder whether it's worth it.

Don't worry about it, Mr Fanti doesn't do substance, so there is no point expecting it.

[Stavros]

Not surprised at all that Kevin-Spineless Coward-McCarthy failed in his big test as speaker,when he folded like a lawnchair and gave into the demands of the MAGA Caucus{ the people he sold his soul too}. And their so called debt limit bill that they past by party line will be dead on arrival in the US Senate.

"...folded like a lawn chair..." ! Love it. Gonna pinch it.