Man kills Lion, but the Lion wins

[Stavros]

I wonder how people react to the story of the Minnesota dentist, Walter Palmer, who hunted down and shot Cecil the Lion? Palmer used a high-tech cross-bow but only wounded the animal. Palmer and his team spent the next 40 hours tracking the lion in its last desperate attempt to get away, before shooting it, cutting off its head, and skinning it. Unfortunately for Palmer, Cecil was not only a famous lion in Zimbabwe, he had also been tagged for a survey being carried out by the Wildlife Conservation Unit at Oxford University, and crucially, was lured out of the National Park where he lived, and killed on private land -the hunt, for which Palmer paid $50,000 was illegal in Zimbabwe. Palmer's reputation is shattered, one can only imagine the impact it has had on his family, and he may yet face justice in Zimbabwe.

What position do you take, using these as samples:

1. The Jains have it right -it is wrong to kill any living thing.

2. If you can't eat it, don't kill it; or, farmers alone should be allowed to kill vermin or threats to their livestock.

3. Killing animals for sport should be banned, there are plenty of ways for men to be challenged on adventure holidays without having to kill anything.

4. It might not seem fair, but even with an endangered species such as the African lion, killing lions in Zimbabwe is legal if the permits are issued, and the regulations followed. And local people rely on the income they get from hunting.

5. Most wildlife tourists visiting Africa shoot with cameras, hunting is no longer necessary for the local economy, or desirable.

6. It doesn't matter, the world has more things to worry about that a dead lion.

[Jericho]

Palmer's reputation is shattered, one can only imagine the impact it has had on his family, and he may yet face justice in Zimbabwe.

Chortle...An American citizen...extradited to Zimbabwe for killing a lion. That'll happen...On the twelfth of fucking never!

Personally, I don't find killing for sport very sporting.
If the lion had opposable thumbs and a crossbow too, fair enough, but...

[Laphroaig]

Maybe it's time to resurrect the old Roman "sport" of throwing the criminals, unarmed, to the lions in the arena. Let's see how the twat likes that...

[jamesedwards]

I say #3. I don't understand why some have the thirst to hunt, maybe it's their caveman mentality? hummmmmmmmm

[broncofan]

What Palmer did was idiotic and senseless. But I think he will have suffered enough without a prison sentence. He had to shut down his dental practice, has faced death threats, and probably a life of ostracism. As for extradition to Zimbabwe, there are a lot of important considerations...if we're not willing to honor our treaty with Zimbabwe it can become a haven for U.S criminals fleeing justice. On the other hand, do we want a citizen, even a piece of shit, to face 15 years in a foreign prison for an unlicensed hunt.

[Tapatio]

. On the other hand, do we want a citizen, even a piece of shit, to face 15 years in a foreign prison for an unlicensed hunt.

Seriously. What would be next? Bush and Cheney finally standing trial at The Hague?

[flabbybody]

Chortle...An American citizen...extradited to Zimbabwe for killing a lion. That'll happen...On the twelfth of fucking never!

Personally, I don't find killing for sport very sporting.
If the lion had opposable thumbs and a crossbow too, fair enough, but...
you're probably right that he'll never be extradited. But I suspect his life has become a living hell hiding out from the possibility.
I'm the type of person who feels guilty about stepping on a roach in my bathroom (does it feel pain when my foot squishes it?). A person who's concept of fun is spending $50K to go shoot a magnificent creature should rot in eternal hell. I'd personally burn his fucking house down it I could be assured immunity from the crime.
BTW. This piece of human excrement has killed other African animals, including a white rhino. There's like only 20 of them left on the planet.

[fred41]

Seriously. What would be next? Bush and Cheney finally standing trial at The Hague?

I wouldn't have a problem with that...once you take care of the incredible long list of other folks around the globe who might fulfill that consideration...many of whom are still in power.

[fred41]

I don't 'get' hunting.
I understand that there are families that survive by it...I get that. But in this case we're talking about someone who thinks they're getting a bigger dick by killing something that, under normal circumstances, would take a good deal of courage to kill...and then it's totally staged, and totally illegal, so that there really isn't any threat to him at all.
Hell...he didn't even get a kill shot with his bow...so he can't even argue skill.
He pays an incredible amount of money to do this...maybe thinks he can buy a set of balls, when he could've just picked a different way of making a living that actually takes balls (i'm thinking maybe military...or unsafe shipping construction...you know, a job where you could die or lose a limb and you know that going into it)and I'm not dissing dentistry...but why not just be happy with making a good living, feeding your family and going on nice vacations...you know - enjoying the sights without killing them.
Why not just use a camera?
What really hurts him also is the fact that he looks like such a dick.

The only thing I think I disagree with Stavros, is that, I don't think the lion is officially an endangered species, so I think number 4 would need some editing...I think.

[JenniferParisHusband]

Chortle...An American citizen...extradited to Zimbabwe for killing a lion. That'll happen...On the twelfth of fucking never!

There are some pretty bullshit charges that often get levied upon Americans abroad, just for being American. When I was stationed in Osaka, every summer some poor guy would pick up a tute, go about his business, and then get charged with rape, because the locals want to come up with every possible reason to get the yanks off their island. It happens a lot. I once got picked up in Seoul and charged with a theft from a month before I ever arrived in the country, they just wanted a white guy because at that point there was a dispute over some sort of trade deal. That said, there are a lot of US tourists who go abroad and are just assholes, like this guy. I hope they do extradite him for it.



On the other hand, do we want a citizen, even a piece of shit, to face 15 years in a foreign prison for an unlicensed hunt.

Yes. I have issues with trumped up charges, which happen a lot. But this douche-nozzle posted photos. When you go abroad, you have to obey the local laws. He broke the law, he should be punished. I'm sure a half hour on Google could have found an actual reputable group with a license to hunt.



Seriously. What would be next? Bush and Cheney finally standing trial at The Hague?

Don't you dare tease Tap! Been wanting that one for a long time.



I don't 'get' hunting. I understand that there are families that survive by it...I get that. But in this case we're talking about someone who thinks they're getting a bigger dick by killing something that, under normal circumstances, would take a good deal of courage to kill...and then it's totally staged, and totally illegal, so that there really isn't any threat to him at all. Hell...he didn't even get a kill shot with his bow...so he can't even argue skill. He pays an incredible amount of money to do this...maybe thinks he can buy a set of balls, when he could've just picked a different way of making a living that actually takes balls (i'm thinking maybe military...or unsafe shipping construction...you know, a job where you could die or lose a limb and you know that going into it)and I'm not dissing dentistry...but why not just be happy with making a good living, feeding your family and going on nice vacations...you know - enjoying the sights without killing them. Why not just use a camera? What really hurts him also is the fact that he looks like such a dick. The only thing I think I disagree with Stavros, is that, I don't think the lion is officially an endangered species, so I think number 4 would need some editing...I think.

I think most of us are on the same page. I get hunting if you are going to eat it. I get hunting to control numbers of animal populations which can get too large. I even get it with farmers who have to protect crops or animals. Sport? There's nothing sporting about shooting an animal that isn't aware you are there, has no fighting chance against you, and whose death serves no purpose other than to provide you with new furniture. There's nothing sporting about it. It's actually an unfair advantage. Fuck, get me some defenders. Three or 4 PETA snipers firing back from undisclosed positions, the hunter strapped with 25 lbs of meat and a lion who hasn't eaten for far too long, that's sport! I'd pay to see a dentist from Minnesota square off alone against that.

I don't know if the lion was endangered or not, but there aren't that many.

Luring it out a preserve to be slaughtered, dick move. Even with a permit to hunt, that part if not illegal, seems really damn shady at least. I think they should ban these types of hunts. The ones they really need to get the ban going for are those ones they do in Texas, where some asshole has a 3000 acre ranch, imported a bunch of animals, breeds them specifically to be hunted, and then they drive to someplace where a giraffe is taking a dump, and some redneck with his Freudian penis metaphor shoots the poor thing from the back of a truck, mid-bowl movement, and then they drive off while some redneck lackeys go clean up the mess and FedEx him his "trophy" to meet him when he gets off his flight. Those staged hunts are just as awful.

[phillip]

Walter Palmer is a despicable human being.
We can only hope some fanatic hunts him down, maims him and allows him to suffer for 40+ hours and then cuts off his head and skins him like the piece of shit he is Hey, he did it to Cecil, how about the same fate? Maybe if we (United States) make it illegal to bring back hunting "trophies" from abroad it will eliminate some of this senseless killing of these poor animals.
I can only hope he gets extradited to Zimbabwe and ends up in prison there - but doubtful (I'm sure they don't have a/c, cable, a gym, a library or any other creature comfort we offer in prison here)

The impact of Cecil's death could be deadly to his cubs:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/29/cecil-the-lions-cubs-likely-most-killed-by-rival-lion-say-conservationists

[Stavros]

The only thing I think I disagree with Stavros, is that, I don't think the lion is officially an endangered species, so I think number 4 would need some editing...I think.

My apologies, as you are right Fred, and I should have checked. Lions are in the 'red zone' of vulnerable animals as 40% of the population has declined in the last 20 years, but they are not on an official list of endangered species as yet.

The World Wildlife Fund has a list of endangered species here:
https://www.worldwildlife.org/species/directory?direction=desc&sort=extinction_status

Zimbabwe has now tightened its laws on game hunting, read about it here:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-02/zimbabwe-toughens-hunting-rules-after-cecil-the-lions-killing/6665930

Arguments for hunting, on the basis of conservation and boosting the economy in places such as South Africa with alternative arguments can be found here:
http://www.vox.com/2015/7/29/9069795/cecil-the-lion-hunting


I think the situation Palmer is in does not merit the violent reactions expressed by some people, the violence committed against Cecil was bad enough, we don't need more.

[joebadass]

I hate those dumb fucks that shoot animals for fun..what the fuck is wrong with people

[phillip]

Petition to extradite Walter Palmer has over 200,000 signatures (The goal was 100,000)

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/extradite-minnesotan-walter-james-palmer-face-justice-zimbabwe

[ohioguy13]

Seriously A Bush Chenney dig after all that's been done in the last six years?