Everyone here help bree!

[natina]

I stand with Bree!

Thanks and peace,

SHE NEEDS YOUR HELP
http://act.colorofchange.org/sign/DropTheFlagDropTheCharges/?source=mailingSignOn

Earlier today, people took action where South Carolina politicians have failed and cut down the Confederate flag from the capitol grounds.


One hour later the flag was already back up. Join us to demand SC officials release Bree and drop any charges.

Early this morning, a multiracial group of Carolinians led by teachers and activists took down the Confederate flag from the South Carolina capitol grounds — within an hour the state had raised the hateful banner once again in time for an 11 A.M. white supremacist rally.

Bree, the Black woman who climbed the pole and cut down the flag, was arrested and taken into custody by Capitol Police. She should be promptly released from jail, any charges should be dropped, and the legislature should immediately vote to permanently remove the flag.

I demand all charges against Bree are immediately dropped and that South Carolina never raise the flag again.

According to a statement from the activists they took down the flag because:

"We could not sit by and watch the victims of the Charleston Massacre be laid to rest while the inspiration for their deaths continue to fly above their caskets."

The Confederate flag was born out of a government defending the enslavement of Black people and resurrected as an emblem for whites violently opposing racial integration. Any government that recognizes the flag is declaring that it cherishes a history of racial terror.

Taking down the flag is just one step but one that strikes a blow at the visible symbol of white supremacy. Make no mistake about it, however, racism isn't just a flag or words it's baked into our economy and inequities in our democracy and criminal justice system.

In Bree's own words:

"It's time for a new chapter where we are sincere about dismantling white supremacy and building toward true racial justice and equality."

South Carolina officials have sided with white supremacists in choosing to restore the flag before a planned rally. The legislature must immediately vote to permanently remove the Confederate flag from the capitol and all state buildings.

I stand with Bree!

Thanks and peace,

SHE NEEDS YOUR HELP
http://act.colorofchange.org/sign/DropTheFlagDropTheCharges/?source=mailingSignOn

[natina]

Woman climbs pole, removes Confederate flag


http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/27/politics/south-carolina-confederate-flag/

[dreamon]

She was rightfully arrested.

[natina]

In who's version of what's right?

YOU BEING HERE ARE CONSPIRING TO COMMIT A CRIME. SEE BELOW!

there use to be a right to own slave.

there use to be separate but equal.

it use to be legal to rape your slaves. Chattel Slavery


it use(some places its still illegal) to be illegal to have sex with a transsexual or to masquerade as another sex/gender.

1845 statute prohibiting cross-dressing. As originally enacted, the New York statute made it a crime to assemble “disguised” in public places

an arrestable offence
the 1845 statute that made it a crime in the state to masquerade
Attention divas, daggers, dykes, sissies and studs: sashay shante, y’all. According to Oakland's Code of Ordinances (http://library.municode.com/html/16308/Book.html), your style is illegal.

Immoral Dress Code 9.08.080 has been in place since 1879: “It is unlawful for any person in the city to appear in any public place nude or in the attire of a person of the opposite sex, or in any indecent or lewd attire.”
In terms of concentration of same sex couples, Oakland is ranked among the top five major metropolitan areas in the nation. Certainly our city is as socially conscious as it is diverse. Yet shockingly, in 2010, cross-dressing remains an offense “against public peace and decency.”
I first learned of this wacky time warp while attending an Oakland LGBT Roundtable (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Oakland-LGBT-Roundtable/121063566660) meeting. Stephanie McLeod, pictured above,an intern with City Council Member Rebecca Kaplan’s (http://www.rkaplan.org/) office, created a slide show presentation which contextualized the ordinance.
The civil war ended and the 15th amendment was ratified. Population explosions accompanied the gold rush and the transcontinental railroad; the latter saw Oakland grow from 1,500 people in 1860 to more than 36,000 in 1880. As the railroad’s western terminus, Oakland experienced a rush of new businesses, new manufacturing industries and new jobs. Migrants from the south, and immigrants from China and Southern Europe, changed the demographics of the area.
“People who were not perceived to be part of the social ‘norm’ were marginalized and criminalized,” said McLeod. “Everyone is affected by this, not just queer people. If this law was enforced today, all the women on the police and fire departments could be charged with a misdemeanor for cross-dressing.”
Though I have been out of the closet for 18 years, I admit sometimes I avoid learning about atrocities of the past; I'm already overwhelmed and frustrated by present day inequality. But after McLeod's presentation, I got curious.
San Francisco preceded Oakland with a similar law in 1866. By 1930, most cities in California had dress code laws. From the mid-19th century, the state enacted all kinds of legislation against LGBT behavior; convictions led to forced sterilization, castration, indefinite hospitalization and life imprisonment. The law lumped child molesters and homosexuals together as “perverts.” Women suffragists wore pants in protest. German theorist Karoly Maria Kertbeny disputed the criminalization of “homosexuality” (a term he coined). Racist medical texts linked the idea of "degenerate" races with "degenerate" sexualities.
In the wake of immigration legislation in Arizona, legislation that enables racial profiling, can we afford to leave vague laws on the books, laws that are subject to the interpretation of the times? Political climates change. In 1850, the state of California outlawed “crimes against nature.” Before 1900, this mainly applied to public sex, rape, and sex with a minor. But the early 20th century experienced a heightened anxiety over visible gender difference in urban communities, and homosexuals were increasingly arrested for “crimes against nature.”
As McLeod emphasized, “It could happen again.”
Shush! What’s that sound? Is it the bang of 1,000 fairies fainting in disbelief, falling to the floor? Nope. It’s the vogue boom of butch-queens dropping into suicide dips, their backs clapping the ground. An elegant tranny lip syncs Mary J. “You can’t keep a good woman down

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?71311-crime-against-nature-oral-sex-sodomy-anal-sex-even-if-its-your-wife

crime against nature:oral sex/sodomy/anal sex even if its your wife
In New Orleans, a first-time conviction of prostitution is charged as a misdemeanor. It can also, however, be charged as a first-time felony with a person facing up to a possible 5 years in prison and the requirement to register as a sex offender. The offense will be carried out as the latter only if it is classified as a “crime against nature.”

A crime against nature is one that involves unnatural copulation, or oral and anal sex. Vaginal sex is not a part of this because it is not seen as unnatural. So, it can be assumed that breaking this law can be seen as largely targeting the gay and transgendered populations. How can a law that was adopted in 1805 and that so clearly promotes bigotry still be in place? Thankfully, on February 16, a file was made to challenge this bullshit


http://sexculturepolitics.wordpress.com/2011/03/24/a-crime-against-nature-is-not-a-crime-at-all/

https://sexculturepolitics.wordpress.com/2011/03/24/a-crime-against-nature-is-not-a-crime-at-all/


http://cinemawithoutborders.com/reviews/2205-stonewall-uprising.html


http://www.dragqueendiaries.com/blogs/category/gay-pride/stonewall-riots40-years-ago-this-month/

[DeezNuts515]

You have the most annoying posting style in the history of the Internet.

[natina]

If you dom't like my post don't click on them.

I don't care what you think. I am gonna be me!

I don't give a fuck about you...............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZaJYDPY-YQ


You have the most annoying posting style in the history of the Internet.


She was rightfully arrested.

[Ben in LA]

How could you NOT expect these responses?

[Jericho]

~There goes another bit of my childhood! :hide-1:

855708

[dreamon]

In who's version of what's right?

She defaced a monument on capital grounds, that is a misdemeanor in the state of South Carolina.

[stimpy17]

She was rightfully arrested.

Agreed.

[EZWind]

She defaced a monument on capital grounds,

...Dream on, dreamon...you're dead wrong. That's what she's CHARGED with. What she actually did was to SAVE face for the entire state of South Carolina. That piece of cloth is nothing but an emblem of hate, oppression and treason and has no business being displayed anywhere on any gov't property.

[dreamon]

...Dream on, dreamon...you're dead wrong. That's what she's CHARGED with. What she actually did was to SAVE face for the entire state of South Carolina. That piece of cloth is nothing but an emblem of hate, oppression and treason and has no business being displayed anywhere on any gov't property.

They charged her with it because she did it. There is even a video of it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvXygFjtPLo

[dreamon]

The Battle Flag is part of the Confederate Monument which honors the fallen soldiers from South Carolina in the Civil War.

[EZWind]

They charged her with it because she did it.

...actually, no, she did nothing of the sort......wrong again. There is no monument. What there is, is a flag pole honoring the symbol of a group of people who kept other people as slaves and who, in order to keep owning their slaves, were willing to secede from the United States (treason) even if it meant killing Americans (murder) in order to achieve that goal. Nothing monumental about that. but keep going....you're batting 1000 so far

[EZWind]

The Battle Flag is part of the Confederate Monument which honors the fallen soldiers from South Carolina in the Civil War.
....where is the honor in owning and enslaving another human being?

[dreamon]

...actually, no, she did nothing of the sort......wrong again. There is no monument. What there is, is a flag pole honoring the symbol of a group of people who kept other people as slaves and who, in order to keep owning their slaves, were willing to secede from the United States (treason) even if it meant killing Americans (murder) in order to achieve that goal. Nothing monumental about that. but keep going....you're batting 1000 so far

There is no monument? She did nothing of the sort? I just posted a video of her doing exactly something of the sort lol. And here's a photograph of the monument....

855959

Are you being willfully ignorant or are you really that out of touch with reality?

[lifeisfiction]

Maybe this thread might be best suited in the politics section.

(This is why the South still calls us Yankees. I won't say I agree or disagree with anything, but most people who have never lived in the South tend to have weird ideas about them that are stereotypical and off base. I am just talking from my observation of living there for three years. It's just a different world.)

[natina]

THE GREAT NEWS IS THAT THAT FLAG IS COMING DOWN!

Survey: Confederate flag push reaches key milestone in SC

COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) — A survey of South Carolina legislators shows there's enough support to remove the Confederate flag from Statehouse grounds if all supporters cast a vote.

The Post and Courier newspaper, the South Carolina Press Association and The Associated Press asked all lawmakers how they intend to vote. At least 33 senators and 82 House members say they the flag should go.

That appears to meet the two-thirds majority needed from both chambers to move the battle flag. That rule is part of the 2000 compromise that took the flag off the Statehouse dome and put a square version beside a monument to Confederate soldiers.

The flag push follows the shooting deaths of nine people at a black church in Charleston. The pastor, state Sen. Clementa Pinckney, was among the dead.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/survey-confederate-flag-push-reaches-key-milestone-in-sc/ar-AAcisjl

[natina]

Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush Say Confederate Flag Should be Removed

Those calling for the removal of the Confederate flag that is flying above the grounds of South Carolina’s state Capitol received support from two Republicans on Saturday. Mitt Romney was by far the most forceful. The 2012 Republican presidential nominee did not mince words, taking to Twitter to write (https://twitter.com/MittRomney/status/612276050182049792): “Take down the #ConfederateFlag at the SC Capitol. To many, it is a symbol of racial hatred. Remove it now to honor #Charleston victims.”

Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush wasn’t as direct but his words left little room for interpretation. In a post on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/jebbush/posts/714434435352269), Bush said that his position “is clear” on what should be done with the flag. "In Florida, we acted, moving the flag from the state grounds to a museum where it belonged," Bush said. "This is obviously a very sensitive time in South Carolina and our prayers are with the families, the AME church community and the entire state. Following a period of mourning, there will rightly be a discussion among leaders in the state about how South Carolina should move forward and I'm confident they will do the right thing." Bush's words appeared to closely echo President Obama's views on the issue. “The president has said before he believes the Confederate flag belongs in a museum, and that is still his position,” spokesman Eric Schultz told reporters aboard Air Force One on Friday.

Other Republican contenders got close to the line but fell short of saying the flag should be removed outright. Carly Fiorina, for example, said she agrees the flag is a “symbol of racial hatred” but her “personal opinion is not what’s relevant here,” according to the Associated Press (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GOP_2016_CONFEDERATE_FLAG?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-06-20-18-31-33). Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, meanwhile, told the Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/06/20/ted-cruz-its-up-to-south-carolina-to-decide-on-confederate-flag/') that South Carolina is the one that has to decide what to do about the flag. “I think that’s a question for South Carolina, and the last thing they need is people from outside the state coming in and dictating how they should resolve that issue,” Cruz said.
Although Romney’s strong statement was surprising considering how Republican leaders have appeared reluctant to discuss the role of race in the church shooting in South Carolina, the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/06/20/mitt-romney-calls-for-removal-of-confederate-flag-at-south-carolina-capitol/) points out that the former governor has been speaking up against the flag for years. “That flag shouldn’t be flown,” Romney said in 2008. “That’s not a flag I recognize.”




http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/06/20/mitt_romney_jeb_bush_call_for_removing_confederate _flag_from_south_carolina.html

[natina]

Eviction Notice

The GOP wanted to keep pandering on the Confederate flag. Why they couldn’t this time.

Three days ago, Republicans were struggling (http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/06/22/candidates-join-the-confederate-flag-debate-in-south-carolina/) to answer questions on the Confederate battle flag, which flies on the South Carolina state capitol grounds in Columbia. Even under ordinary circumstances, national Republicans have a hard time with the flag. To reject it is to rebuke the countless white Southerners who claim it as heritage, despite its historic meaning as a symbol of resistance to civil rights. But there’s no victory in embracing it either—it opens you to national criticism of taking part in the worst forms of insensitivity and pandering. And so, for decades, most Republicans muddled around the issue in a not-so-subtle nod to white Southern identity politics. (To his credit, Mitt Romney refused to pander (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2015/06/20/how-mitt-romneys-opposition-to-confederate-flag-just-put-the-current-gop-presidential-candidates-on-the-spot/) on the flag in 2007 during his first run for the White House, while John McCain called his decision to pander on the flag during his 2000 presidential campaign one of his greatest regrets (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/204232-one-of-mccains-biggest-mistakes-maybe-running-for-president).)
But muddling wasn’t an option this time. Republicans weren’t just responding to the flag, they were responding to a brutal attack (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/06/emanuel_ame_church_has_long_history_of_resistance_ to_racism_the_charleston.html) on a historic black church in Charleston. The attack, which killed nine people (including a state senator), was motivated by hate (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history/2015/06/the_deadly_history_of_they_re_raping_our_women_rac ists_have_long_defended.html) and allegedly carried out by a young white supremacist, Dylann Roof, who wanted to spark a “race war” against black Americans. No, Roof wasn’t inspired to commit his crime by the Confederate flag, but in photos posted online he clearly used the imagery (http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/06/20/dylann_roof_details_white_supremacist_worldview_in _shocking_online_manifesto.html) in its original meaning—as a symbol of anti-black animus and racial subjugation. In response to the attack, a bevy of activists—and ordinary South Carolinians—called on the state to remove the flag from the capitol. “The flag has to come down,” said Cornell Brooks (http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/06/19/415830922/confederate-flag-has-to-come-down-in-s-c-naacp-leader-says), president of the NAACP.
Desperate to deflect and avoid offending white South Carolinians but aware of the circumstances, Republicans tried to sidestep the issue (http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/06/22/candidates-join-the-confederate-flag-debate-in-south-carolina/) or at least split the difference. Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, Mike Huckabee, Ben Carson, and Rick Santorum labeled the flag a state issue. “If the state government of South Carolina wishes to address an issue in their state, that’s fine,” said Huckabee, who took an even more aggressive “states’ rights” stance (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2008/01/hucks_free_pass.html) in his first presidential run in 2008. Former Texas Gov. Rick Perry and Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, meanwhile, tried a noncommittal approach that acknowledged emotions on both sides. “I think a governor’s job should be one to bring people together, not to divide them and I think the Confederate battle flag is clearly one of those that divides people,” said Perry. Cruz’s statement was a little more cognizant of the flag’s true historic meaning. “I understand the passions that this debate evokes on both sides,” said Cruz. “Both those who see a history of racial oppression and a history of slavery, which is the original sin of our nation.”



Into all of this comes Nikki Haley, Republican governor of South Carolina, serving her second term after winning a nearly 15-point re-election victory last fall. On Friday, she was cautious, telling CBS (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/20/us/outrage-vs-tradition-wrapped-in-a-confederate-flag.html) that she hoped the state could have a conversation with “thoughtful words to be exchanged,” and adding “I think the state will start talking about that again, and we’ll see where it goes.”

On Monday, however—pushed by public outrage—she had changed her tune. In an afternoon press conference with Republican Sens. Lindsey Graham and Tim Scott, as well as Democratic Rep. James Clyburn, GOP Congressman and former Gov. Mark Sanford, and a whole host of state lawmakers from both parties, Haley urged South Carolina legislators to take down the flag. “It’s time to move the flag from the Capitol grounds,” said the governor (http://www.vox.com/2015/6/22/8826373/confederate-flag-south-carolina), stating that while residents have the right to show the flag on their property, ”the Statehouse is different, and the events of this past week call upon us to look at this in a different way.”

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/06/nikki_haley_confederate_flag_speech_how_the_charle ston_attacks_forced_the.html

[buttslinger]

I don't get it, if the flag is so offensive to black folks, then why did Bree try to steal it?

[Ben in LA]

I don't get it, if the flag is so offensive to black folks, then why did Bree try to steal it?
She didn't try to steal it, she tried to remove it because it's a slap in the face to the non-whites of that state. When the shooting of the Charleston Nine occurred, the U.S. flag and the state flag were lowered to half-mast out of respect...but the confederate flag continued to fly at full-mast.

Many people consider the flag to be a representation of hate. Yeah, yeah...it could have been the "battle flag" (whatever; it was still used by slave owners), but it was (and still is) used as an intimidation tool and as a symbol of racism. For quite a few years after the Civil War, it wasn't displayed as prominately; it was raised again in protest during the Civil Rights era.

So yeah, fuck that flag (and fuck that monument as well). I'm sure she'll go to jail with a smile on her face.

[thx1138]

If you "Johnny Reb' types don't like your flag taken down raise an army and march on Washington. Bring your 6 shooters, shot guns and bibles. You're going to need them.

[Wendy Summers]

At the end of the day, what she performed was civil disobedience. I'd be surprised if she didn't know she would get arrested for it. My guess, history will look favorably on her actions and she will get a pardon at some point. That action she took was heroic, but it was still criminal. Non-violent civil disobedience has a long history in our country when it comes to civil rights and has been a huge force for social change. Thankfully there are brave men & women like her who will take a stand.

[EZWind]

There is no monument? She did nothing of the sort? I just posted a video of her doing exactly something of the sort lol. And here's a photograph of the monument....

855959

Are you being willfully ignorant or are you really that out of touch with reality?

...ignorant?...no, that's on you when it comes to the concept of defacement. Okay, so there is some sort of concrete or stone structure there, but she did not spray paint it or take a sledge hammer to it and in fact did nothing at all to deface the "monument". All she did was scale a flagpole and remove a symbol of hate, treason and persecution.
....out of touch w/ reality?...maybe so....I'm certainly not in touch w/ the mindset of a people who see fit to honor a bunch of plantation owners who would rather die than give up the practice of owning and abusing other human beings. If I had that in my past I would say let them all die and be forgotten. I certainly wouldn't be erecting any "monuments" in their "honor". If that's what being out of touch w/ reality means then sign me up

[EZWind]

She didn't try to steal it, she tried to remove it...etc...So yeah, fuck that flag (and fuck that monument as well). I'm sure she'll go to jail with a smile on her face.... Fuck the confederate flag. Fuck the so-called "heritage" of that flag. Fuck anyone who defends using that flag.
...Right On, Ben, you get full marks for all those points
....also, and I don't presume to speak for buttslinger, but I'd be willing to bet his comment was of the tongue in cheek variety

[EZWind]

.......but most people who have never lived in the South tend to have weird ideas about them that are stereotypical and off base.

....off base? if they weren't as "weird" and stereotypical as our ideas of them are, there would be no treasonous flag flying on the capitol grounds...at full staff I might add, even after 9 innocent people were brutally murdered in it's name



I am just talking from my observation of living there for three years. It's just a different world.)

...that's for sure....but still somehow, I don't see how that makes it right or proper

[lifeisfiction]

....off base? if they weren't as "weird" and stereotypical as our ideas of them are, there would be no treasonous flag flying on the capitol grounds...at full staff I might add, even after 9 innocent people were brutally murdered in it's name

...that's for sure....but still somehow, I don't see how that makes it right or proper

The flag is not the problem and if you think it is, it's certainly the least of the problems. The real problem is ingrained in their societal belief, but to say this it's not that simple. I will briefly try to explain it. I always will look at things from a person's point of view. I had discussions with people in the south about the confederate flag (they had the large flags proudly displayed in their homes) on how they viewed the confederate flag. I am black so it was interesting to here them explain it. From the discussion I understood why they viewed the flag in that manner.For some, while the south had a hell of a history, they still have some pride in their heritage. Many people who want the flag removed don't realize the flag is the least of the problems.

My only problem with society we don't find ways to help people understand various views and so people become aggressive to anything that causes a change in their way of life. I like to work with people where they are and help to understand outside their culture. Sadly that's not society today.

Let me get this out the way. Is what the woman did civil disobedience? No. The people who went through hell for civil disobedience were fighting laws that were the epitome of making someone less than human. Where you did not have any rights (you were called less than equal and treated that way) in the society you lived in. They fought the very law itself. Is the flag the same thing, no. You take the down the flag and the attitudes don't change. Its a symbol versus a law. Symbols can only change within the society itself a law is different. A law has the ability to grant the privileges and rights to individuals and groups. A symbol can only change when the group that values it changes their attitudes toward it. Outside forces trying to impose change only entrenches the views. It just makes people grow more spiteful internally and when it wells up, then the real problem begins. I know what she is trying to do and I understand, but that's not the best way to handle the situation. What happened in the church is horrendous, but I don't believe in surface solutions. It never fixes anything and flag is the least of the problem.

Many people will comment, talk about it, but have to live in that society for the next 10 years is what many won't have to endure. They will have to live with the tensions while many of us may and never will experience it all simply because won't don't live there. Its not the flag that is causing people to act out and that is what I would want to solve.

PS: I don't like to talk politics I deal with enough with this stuff already.

[natina]

BLACK SUPER HERO and the WHITE SIDE KICK SUPER HERO!


30-year-old Brittany "Bree" Newsome of Raleigh

30-year-old James Ian Tyson of Charlotte

http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-06-30/artists-explain-why-bree-newsome-became-internet-superhero-after-taking-down


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/30/bree-newsome-speaks-out_n_7698598.html


http://bluenationreview.com/exclusive-bree-newsome-speaks-for-the-first-time-after-courageous-act-of-civil-disobedience/


http://www.wltx.com/story/news/2015/06/27/woman-removes-flag-from-state-house/29384039/

Two people charged with taking down Confederate flag given $3,000 bond each and allowed to leave the state

http://www.breakingnews.com/item/2015/06/27/photo-booking-photos-for-james-ian-tyson-who-ass/

[EZWind]

The flag is not the problem .... I had discussions with people in the south about the confederate flag I am black so it was interesting to hear them explain it.

...I imagine it certainly must have been


I understood why they viewed the flag in that manner.For some, while the south had a hell of a history, they still have some pride in their heritage.

....well, I am white, and I'm sorry but I still just don't see it. "Pride"? In that "heritage"? nope...unacceptable.
...my hat's off to you for being so understanding. Your critique, while well reasoned, I think still misses the mark...that symbol is more a part of the problem than you give it credit for.
....all I can say is this: we spent a coupla weeks a few years back traveling thru Germany and Austria...Frankfurt, Nuremberg, Munich, Salzburg, Vienna....I'm certain a great many of those folks had a heritage of fine upstanding friends and family members who lost their lives in the conflict back in the 1940s, yet nowhere did we ever see a Nazi flag flying in front of any gov't buildings or even so much as a swastika bumper sticker anywhere. Why not? Because the thing is a symbol of evil, no matter how much of a good ole boy your grandfather was.

[dreamon]

....all I can say is this: we spent a coupla weeks a few years back traveling thru Germany and Austria...Frankfurt, Nuremberg, Munich, Salzburg, Vienna....I'm certain a great many of those folks had a heritage of fine upstanding friends and family members who lost their lives in the conflict back in the 1940s, yet nowhere did we ever see a Nazi flag flying in front of any gov't buildings or even so much as a swastika bumper sticker anywhere. Why not? Because the thing is a symbol of evil, no matter how much of a good ole boy your grandfather was.

And as we all know, the Nazi ideology has completely died out in Germany as a result.

[lifeisfiction]

The people of Germany don't want the Nazi flag. Getting rid of the flag was not the solution. The attitudes and views towards symbols of Nazism were rejected by the people. It would not have matter if the whole world hated it, if they as a society did not find fault with it they would have still held on to it internally and in secret. They would have see it as them versus the world. You can find countries where this happens. Where the people feel they are being attacked by the world and it only engrains them in their belief whether the belief is good or bad.

If you get rid of the flag, individuals outside those areas will be happy and pleased. The people that value the confederate flag and live in those areas will not have change. It can lead building an alternative community where they see their values more important and deepen their beliefs. This can lead to radicalism. That's where we don't' want to go. Has extreme examples happen. Of course the most obvious is the Civil War. There are ton more examples around the world. Could something like a civil war happen in our society, a huge probably not, but you could have people act out in the manner that we have seen in our society today. .

Again, getting rid of flag will do nothing if attitudes towards do not change. It only looks like someone who never stepped a foot where they are telling them how to live and that in of itself will only further conflict. I could tell you things that I experience that shocked the daylights out of me leaving a poor impression and it was not the flag that was the problem. To understand is to help facilitate change, because you are able to get to the root of the problem, not a surface solution.

[Ben in LA]

"But it's not about race...it's about Southern heritage."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/06/30/kkk-rally-south-carolina-statehouse-confederate-flag/29510543/

[buttslinger]

In buttslinger's diseased mind, I gravitate toward where all the CONTAST is, if a painting is all black or all white, it's boring and un-noteworthy, and when I say "The blacks are the only crayon that didn't melt in the great American melting pot" to me, case closed, no matter how much you stir the pot, nothing will change. By not melting, blacks are condemned to forever being segregated as different, and I honestly can't say if the blacks refused to melt, or the white man refused to let them melt.

President Obama's time in office has been a lot better for the Wall St trader than the average black man, financially, but if I know my Obama, behind the scenes the moves are being made and the bricks are being laid for the real war: the middle class slave and the one percenter masser. The FAT CATS have been putting their money into the market rather than hiring, it's like there's a staring contest between Obama and the Koch bros to see who's going to blink first.

Just like there are A students and F students, and CEO jobs, and janitor jobs, there will always be a contrast in the "all men are created equal" USA. Winners and Losers. Sending Bree a check for ten bucks might make somebody feel good, but to me it's just like buying a confederate flag at K-mart makes some people feel good, so what.
The real War is going to be the fight for the middle class. They do all the work, they should write all the checks.

Racism will die out as I die out, and Natina dies out, and The Greatest Generation dies out. Kids today laugh at us.

The thought of marrying a humanoid with a woman's face, woman's breasts, and a huge schlonger would have been unthinkable eight years ago, but now it's A-OK. But not to my Mom.

To me, cops treating blacks unfairly in the ghetto is not the problem, the ghetto is the problem. If Bree can figure out how to eliminate the ghetto, I'll send her ten bucks. I agree this problem is much deeper than the confederate flag and it's woven into lots of other problems. I also agree this is a racist country. I am a huge Washington Redskins fan, also.

[dreamon]

"But it's not about race...it's about Southern heritage."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/06/30/kkk-rally-south-carolina-statehouse-confederate-flag/29510543/

856436

[natina]

Tim Wise - 400 YEARS HEAD START AND ADVANTAGES

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JErESW-CQI


Affirmative Action Debate: Tim Wise 3/14- Intelligence Squared U.S.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uH0vpGZJCo


The motion: "It's time to end affirmative action"

Moderator: Robert Siegel
Speaking for the motion: John H. McWhorter, Terence J. Pell and Joseph C. Phillips
Speaking against the motion: Khin Mai Aung, Kimberlé Crenshaw and Tim Wise

IQ2US marks the launch of Oxford-style debating -- one motion, one moderator, three advocates for the motion, three against -- in New York City. Each evening begins at 6:00P with a complimentary cocktail period. As you enter the theater before the debate starts at 6:45P, you cast your vote for or against the evening's motion. Those results are displayed midway through the debate as each side makes its statements. After all six panelists speak, the audience has a chance to ask the speakers questions and vote again. The debate finishes with brief summations from the panelists, the votes are tallied and a winning side is declared


Tim Wise on the "Dominant Historical Narrative"
http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/media/videos/tim-wise-on-the-dominant-historical-narrative

TIM WISE ON THE CREATION OF WHITENESS (CLIP)
http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/media/videos/tim-wise-on-the-creation-of-whiteness-clip

The Underprivileged White Male
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jaH_hmnrPU&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL



WHITES CAME here FOR REligous freedom


TIM WISE ON THE CREATION OF WHITENESS (CLIP)
http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/media/videos/tim-wise-on-the-creation-of-whiteness-clip

[Goodslave]

She was rightfully arrested.

Agree totally.

[EZWind]

Well, I was gonna just let this thread die out, but since the South Carolina state legislature has just confirmed that maybe I'm not so far off base about this (altho some of them had to be shamed into it and dragged kicking and screaming to the side of reason) I thought I'd jump in one more time. Believe it or not, I actually learned something today by watching video of our illustrious 114th Congress in our nation's capital. The Confederacy had 3 flags....this particular flag that's causing all the angst was not one of them. That flag was the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia under Rob't E Lee. When he surrendered at Appomattox, he asked that the flag be furled, told his troops to roll it up and put it away in their attics. Said he considered it to be a symbol of treason. When he died he refused to be buried in his Confederate uniform and his family refused to let anyone wearing that uniform to attend the funeral. This is General Lee we're talking about...one of the Major forces in the whole "heritage" thing that so many seem to be afraid of losing.
This stars and bars thing only came to be displayed in the early 1960's, coincidentally, just around the time a bunch of uppity "coloreds" decided they ought to be able to go into a diner and sit down at the counter and order some lunch.
I'm not saying the flag is the whole problem and everything will be peachy keen when it's gone. And I'm not saying that all the comments that there are deeper societal ills at the root of this besides the flag are wrong.
All I'm saying is we're better off without it. And, evidently, much to my surprise, South Carolina appears to concur.
And of course, now Boner and his bunch of Republi-clowns in the House have to get in on the act at the Federal level. It just boggles the mind

[Ben in LA]

Whatever. The confederacy used the flag(s) as well as the Klan. And yes, the American flag was - and still is - used by them as well.

[EZWind]

And as we all know, the Nazi ideology has completely died out in Germany as a result.
...I'm sure it's a safe bet that it hasn't died out completely... I never said it had. And I never said that because you don't see the flags anywhere that means the sentiment no longer exists. All I'm saying is, you don't make the world a better place by allowing symbols of hate and evil to be prominently displayed in public.
I'd be curious to see the figures on how many of Jewish descent have been murdered in Germany compared to how many of African descent have been murdered in the US

[stimpy17]

I'd be curious to see the figures on how many of Jewish descent have been murdered in Germany compared to how many of African descent have been murdered in the US.

Good point. After WW2 the Jews started their new country, armed and defended themselves and turned the desert into a garden.

After 300 years of slavery blacks took a flag down and burned their neighborhoods in response to wrong information (hands-up-don't shoot.) Family units have been fractured, drug use is rampant and black on black and black on white crime is out of control.

Why? I ask what has been done, what have you done to reverse this? Some thought a Blackman in the Whitehouse would bring back some degree of sanity or at least some hope but that hasn't been the case. Instead we get flags and burning cities. I'm now suppose to feel guilty because of "White guilt".....white guilt...... No not Latino or Oriental guilt or any other immigrant or family heritage, White guilt, White privilege. Is that all you got to solve this issue? Place blame because of skin color? Sounds familiar doesn't it, sounds about 300 years old.

Maybe this post will cause some to think about their part and responsibility in changing the Human condition. Some might just want to attack me. I won't revisit this post to see the reactions.

[natina]

Tim Wise - 400 YEARS HEAD START AND ADVANTAGES

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JErESW-CQI


Affirmative Action Debate: Tim Wise 3/14- Intelligence Squared U.S.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uH0vpGZJCo


The motion: "It's time to end affirmative action"

Moderator: Robert Siegel
Speaking for the motion: John H. McWhorter, Terence J. Pell and Joseph C. Phillips
Speaking against the motion: Khin Mai Aung, Kimberlé Crenshaw and Tim Wise

IQ2US marks the launch of Oxford-style debating -- one motion, one moderator, three advocates for the motion, three against -- in New York City. Each evening begins at 6:00P with a complimentary cocktail period. As you enter the theater before the debate starts at 6:45P, you cast your vote for or against the evening's motion. Those results are displayed midway through the debate as each side makes its statements. After all six panelists speak, the audience has a chance to ask the speakers questions and vote again. The debate finishes with brief summations from the panelists, the votes are tallied and a winning side is declared


White Pride and Other Delusions:

Reflections on the Rage of the Uninformed

By Tim Wise

"The price the white American paid for his ticket was to become white...This incredibly limited, not to say dimwitted ambition has choked many a human being to death here: and this, I contend, is because the white American has never accepted the real reasons for his journey. I know very well that my ancestors had no desire to come to this place: but neither did the ancestors of the people who became white and who require of my captivity a song. They require of me a song less to celebrate my captivity than to justify their own."

James Baldwin, "The Price of the Ticket," 1985

It seems like every week I get an e-mail from someone demanding to know why there's no White History Month, or White Entertainment Television, or why whites aren't allowed to have organizations to defend "our" interests, the way people of color are, without being thought of as racists. One of these internet missives, which has been making the rounds lately on MySpace and other popular networking sites, implies that whites are somehow oppressed because we can't get away with calling people of color any number of racial slurs (a litany of which the author then proceeds to recite, almost gleefully), while persons of color presumably call us names like "cracker," "honky," or "hillbilly" all the time.

The e-mail goes on to express anger over, among other things, Martin Luther King Jr. day, and Yom HaShoah (Holocaust Remembrance day in Israel), as if these were holidays that discriminated against whites. It then laments that white pride is seen as racist, but for people of color to feel and show pride in their group is seen as normal, natural, and even healthy.

The Reverse Racism Ruse (Or How to Ignore Power, History and Logic)

http://www.timwise.org/2007/05/on-white-pride-and-other-delusions-reflections-on-the-rage-of-the-uninformed/


TIM WISE- INSTITUTIONAL RACISM IN AMERICAN SOCIETY IS REAL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C55zE_qJd2g

Tim Wise-institutional racism, labor, prison education
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk


Tim Wise on the "Dominant Historical Narrative"
http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/media/videos/tim-wise-on-the-dominant-historical-narrative

[natina]

The Pathology of Privilege: Racism, White Denial & the Costs of Inequality, the newly released video from the Media Education Foundation. The video is of a speech given by Tim Wise at Mt. Holyoke College, October 1, 2007.


The Pathology of Privilege: Racism, White Denial & the Costs of Inequality

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Xe1kX7Wsc


http://www.redroom.com/video/tim-wise-creation-whiteness-clip





more complete video but has relatedlinks/urls and related to more of his speakings/lectures



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk&feature=related







http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UJlNRODZHA&feature=related





Tim Wise-institutional racism, labor, prison education

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-VEWJncnsk&NR=1


affirmative action /school bias white people have affimative action to


YouTube - white people have affimative action to


“Colorblindness,” “Illuminated Individualism,” Poor Whites, and Mad Men: The Tim Wise Interview, Part 1

http://www.racialicious.com/2010/09/09/%E2%80%9Ccolorblindness%E2%80%9D-%E2%80%9Cilluminated-individualism%E2%80%9D-poor-whites-and-mad-men-the-tim-wise-interview-part-1/


WHITE PRIVILEGE For those who still can’t grasp it

WHITE PRIVILEGE
By Tim Wise

For those who still can’t grasp the concept of white privilege, or who are looking for some easy-to-understand examples of it, perhaps this list will help.

White privilege is when you can get pregnant at seventeen like Bristol Palin and everyone is quick to insist that your life and that of your family is a personal matter, and that no one has a right to judge you or your parents, because “every family has challenges,” even as black and Latino families with similar “challenges” are regularly typified as irresponsible, pathological and arbiters of social decay.

White privilege is when you can call yourself a “fuckin’ redneck,” like Bristol Palin’s boyfriend does, and talk about how if anyone messes with you, you'll “kick their fuckin' ass,” and talk about how you like to “shoot shit” for fun, and still be viewed as a responsible, all-American boy (and a great son-in-law to be) rather than a thug.

White privilege is when you can attend four different colleges in six years like Sarah Palin did (one of which you basically failed out of, then returned to after making up some coursework at a community college), and no one questions your intelligence or commitment to achievement, whereas a person of color who did this would be viewed as unfit for college, and probably someone who only got in in the first place because of affirmative action.

White privilege is when you can claim that being mayor of a town smaller than most medium-sized colleges, and then Governor of a state with about the same number of people as the lower fifth of the island of Manhattan, makes you ready to potentially be president, and people don’t all piss on themselves with laughter, while being a black U.S. Senator, two-term state Senator, and constitutional law scholar, means you’re “untested.”


http://www.timwise.org/tag/bill-oreilly/