Secret videoing by escorts of their clients

[arcy]

Had my first t-girl experience recently. All was fine but it did occur to me how easy it would be to secretly film me. Then a week ago I watched a porn film with a well known UK escort who appeared to be filming clients, maybe with their consent, I don't know. Just made me wonder if there have been incidents of escorts secretly filming clients and then publishing them as porn? It does put me off visiting again just in case

[cutesteph]

You are paranoid my friend.

[giovanni_hotel]

DOn't worry about it. It happens.

That's why meeting at a hotel is better than a place of residence.

[natina]

I know of a post op swedish escort living in an apartment in north Hollywood that secretly tapes clients and charges to view it on there websites.

[arcy]

DOn't worry about it. It happens.

That's why meeting at a hotel is better than a place of residence.

Well, if it happens, surely that means I should worry about it?

[saifan]

I can't imagine with lighting and places a camera can be placed that anything that does get filmed is pretty low quality. Also, when are they starting to tape? I really wouldn't be worried.

[gaiseric]

Surely if you are that paranoid about being filmed whilst visiting an escort you should stop visiting escorts, lock yourself in at home and hide from the world.

[arcy]

Stop visiting escorts - yes, possibly

lock yourself in at home and hide from the world - no, that's wierd

It is very easy to set up a small webcam, press record while the client's in the shower and video it

[Laphroaig]

It's far more likely that clients would try to secretly film their encounters with escorts than the other way round.

[Bigdunc]

I got home feeling very frustrated and worried last thursday after visiting Dianahorny from AW, http://www.adultwork.com/2934369 and I've been told birchplace too, so I went in paid my money she set the bed told me where to lay and got on with it, everytime she suggested different positions it was always at her side of the bed on getting into 69 I noticed a phone peeking around from the back of the wardrobe which quickly got pulled back thought I was seeing things then it happened again so I jumped up and told her to get whoever was filming to stop she said no one was there look so I said ok stuck my head round and some young Romanian looking guy was there in a shell track suit, I said who's that then? She looked and told him to leave, I gathered my stuff & and got dressed she kept saying to stay and finish off I was not hanging around as I didn't no what to do so left rather quickly, thought I'd share my horrible experience and proof that it does happen so be aware when you visit a place guys, don't know how many unsuspecting clients she has on video.

[GroobySteven]

I got home feeling very frustrated and worried last thursday after visiting Dianahorny from AW, http://www.adultwork.com/2934369 and I've been told birchplace too, so I went in paid my money she set the bed told me where to lay and got on with it, everytime she suggested different positions it was always at her side of the bed on getting into 69 I noticed a phone peeking around from the back of the wardrobe which quickly got pulled back thought I was seeing things then it happened again so I jumped up and told her to get whoever was filming to stop she said no one was there look so I said ok stuck my head round and some young Romanian looking guy was there in a shell track suit, I said who's that then? She looked and told him to leave, I gathered my stuff & and got dressed she kept saying to stay and finish off I was not hanging around as I didn't no what to do so left rather quickly, thought I'd share my horrible experience and proof that it does happen so be aware when you visit a place guys, don't know how many unsuspecting clients she has on video.

How is someone "Romanian-looking"? So someone hid behind a wardrobe?
Comedy gold but in my opinion, utter BS.

[Laphroaig]

How is someone "Romanian-looking"? So someone hid behind a wardrobe?
Comedy gold but in my opinion, utter BS.

I wouldn't dismiss it that quickly.

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?93900-Dianahorny-Aw-bad-experience

[giovanni_hotel]

I can't imagine with lighting and places a camera can be placed that anything that does get filmed is pretty low quality. Also, when are they starting to tape? I really wouldn't be worried.

This is what I meant in saying don't worry about it.
It would be very hard to positively identify someone from a smartphone vid. Most don't do it, some do.

I'd be more concerned there was another person in the room while you were about to fuck an escort.

[GroobySteven]

I wouldn't dismiss it that quickly.

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?93900-Dianahorny-Aw-bad-experience

Same poster. Same BS.

[Bigdunc]

Looks like I've upset the pimp, by exposing there goings on?

[GroobySteven]

Looks like I've upset the pimp, by exposing there goings on?

My point exactly. Thanks for the confirmation. See the door, feel free to use it.

[LI SEAN08]

It's far more likely that clients would try to secretly film their encounters with escorts than the other way round.
Exactly what I wanted to say as soon as I started reading this. Ive did it at my place more than once. But its for my own enjoyment, as my face is wide open in it. so is my mouth!!

[LI SEAN08]

I got home feeling very frustrated and worried last thursday after visiting Dianahorny from AW, http://www.adultwork.com/2934369 and I've been told birchplace too, so I went in paid my money she set the bed told me where to lay and got on with it, everytime she suggested different positions it was always at her side of the bed on getting into 69 I noticed a phone peeking around from the back of the wardrobe which quickly got pulled back thought I was seeing things then it happened again so I jumped up and told her to get whoever was filming to stop she said no one was there look so I said ok stuck my head round and some young Romanian looking guy was there in a shell track suit, I said who's that then? She looked and told him to leave, I gathered my stuff & and got dressed she kept saying to stay and finish off I was not hanging around as I didn't no what to do so left rather quickly, thought I'd share my horrible experience and proof that it does happen so be aware when you visit a place guys, don't know how many unsuspecting clients she has on video.
LOL and I guess u still paid her too. ???? LOL Only over in ur neck of the woods!!! Here in NY, it would have turned very ugly quickly!!!!

[Bigdunc]

LOL and I guess u still paid her too. ???? LOL Only over in ur neck of the woods!!! Here in NY, it would have turned very ugly quickly!!!!

Yes sean but you guys can pull a gun on someone over there and people would listen quite quickly to you, if we tried that over here you would get 7 years in prison, id of loved to say I'm gonna put a hole in that wardrobe hope no one is behind it and watched how quick the scumbag came running out lol

[oooh]

This is why I always do outcalls.

[CoolAwesomeBXDude]

all i know is that if their recording me they better let me know, i wanna see the video too you know

especially if im going ham during the session

[LI SEAN08]

I know a tranny very well who will secretly take pics and vids as u down sucking her.... and she appears to be texting on her phone!!

[Tattyguy4trans]

Anyone ever find footage?

[hamdasl]

Always do outcall.

[holzz]

it's illegal. and what will they do? sell it as porn? so let their arse go to fucking jail.

[josehip]

How is someone "Romanian-looking"? So someone hid behind a wardrobe?
Comedy gold but in my opinion, utter BS.

johnnie candito.

[dakota87]

I know a tranny very well who will secretly take pics and vids as u down sucking her.... and she appears to be texting on her phone!!
This is true

[smalltownguy]

only a hypocrite person will do such work secretly :wiggle:

[skribble1]

it's illegal. and what will they do? sell it as porn? so let their arse go to fucking jail.

that onlyfans thing is what i see a lot of them doing now

[DaphneCruz]

Athena Addams records her sessions... Thats how she filmed herself getting robbed. lol

[krissy4u]

it's illegal. and what will they do? sell it as porn? so let their arse go to fucking jail.

Uh... no... it's not. You have a right here in the US (I think in every state - sound laws vary) to record ANYTHING that happens in the privacy of your own home... that includes sexual activity. What you then do with it may be questionable, but the act of recording it isn't illegal at all.

[skirtrustler]

If (1) it featured with some prominence an identifiable person (among other things),and (2) you wish to publish it: then you need a model release signed. Without such a release you are setting yourself up for possible legal action.

[Foreskin]

If (1) it featured with some prominence an identifiable person (among other things),and (2) you wish to publish it: then you need a model release signed. Without such a release you are setting yourself up for possible legal action.

A little too late once your published to the worlds eyes. I caught one time someone in the room hiding in the closet area with an iPad. It did get ugly, and fucking quick, iPad out the 8th floor window, TKO suckered punch, cash refund and out the door, collected the iPad on the way out, it was toast, threw it out the car window onto the freeway heading home. Watched it get run over by an 18 wheeler. Fuck their shit, no matter their fucked up motives, would've destroyed me and more importantly everyone I love & trust who love & trust me.

[TSaddicted]

This crosses my mind every time I go into an escorts residence. What I do is turn off the lights, have a good scan of the room and just make sure the room is as dim as possible so if I am being recorded, the quality will be so crap that the escort has nothing to watch.

[skirtrustler]

A little too late once your published to the worlds eyes. I caught one time someone in the room hiding in the closet area with an iPad. It did get ugly, and fucking quick, iPad out the 8th floor window, TKO suckered punch, cash refund and out the door, collected the iPad on the way out, it was toast, threw it out the car window onto the freeway heading home. Watched it get run over by an 18 wheeler. Fuck their shit ...

Now that is what you call a happy ending.

[Scott098]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/daniellecitron/2014/05/15/nonconsensual-taping-of-sex-partners-is-a-crime/#ddf99b06ce08

[smalltownguy]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/daniellecitron/2014/05/15/nonconsensual-taping-of-sex-partners-is-a-crime/#ddf99b06ce08

Nonconsensual Taping of Sex Partners Is a Crime .... by a law professor "Danielle Citron"

[skirtrustler]

Nonconsensual Taping of Sex Partners Is a Crime ...

I and I think most of us agree it should be, once you can establish how consent was given and recorded in the heat of the moment between two consenting adults, or was not given.

I am not a lawyer but this still looks like a legal mess. The Forbes article (link above) refers to a state law, someone earlier talked about what is legal or not in your own property, and legal concepts of privacy are still catching up with technology country by country: e.g. up-skirting and revenge porn. ...
... let alone what court cases will arise from Amazon doing interesting things with the bump, grind and pillow talk if your girl friend is named Alexa...ndra.

I am thus with Foreskin above: some form of proportional, justifiable and immediate remedy.

[holzz]

Uh... no... it's not. You have a right here in the US (I think in every state - sound laws vary) to record ANYTHING that happens in the privacy of your own home... that includes sexual activity. What you then do with it may be questionable, but the act of recording it isn't illegal at all.

no, it's not legal. there are privacy laws, and yes it depends as always on the jurisdiction. However, if this were the case, then revenge porn would not be an issue, which is being curbed in many US states and at the Fed level. To record and distribute is illegal, and in some cases even storage is illegal without intent to distribute.

[krissy4u]

no, it's not legal. there are privacy laws, and yes it depends as always on the jurisdiction. However, if this were the case, then revenge porn would not be an issue, which is being curbed in many US states and at the Fed level. To record and distribute is illegal, and in some cases even storage is illegal without intent to distribute.

Yes... it is. RECORDING ANYTHING IN THE PRIVACY OF YOUR OWN HOME IS LEGAL... PERIOD (recording sound along with video varies by state). That is why "Nanny-Cams" are able to exist. You have NO EXPECTATION of privacy if you are in someone else's house as a guest, employee, or whatever... except maybe in the restroom - you could probably make a case for that. Your expectation of privacy is waived... it isn't your property. This is why business owners, private property owners, etc. can record video or do surveillance on their property. You (as the owner) are the only one who as an expectation of privacy in your own home.

Could this view be challenged in court...? Sure... just like anything can be challenged in court. Privacy Laws govern where there is a "reasonable expectation of privacy" in most cases. These laws are largely for governing and protecting public places that should be considered private such as changing rooms, restrooms, massage rooms, locker rooms, etc.

Revenge porn is an issue, not because it simply exists as a recording, but because it is distributed without consent of the parties. The recording itself is completely legal (in simple cases). Like I said - WHAT YOU THEN DO WITH IT is the problem. Recording, in and of itself - is not a crime. That is my only point. You're twisting my words to include distribution - I never claimed that was legal at all... and in fact, I stated that in my post.

[Stavros]

The legal situation in the UK is not as clear as you might think. As Krissy points out, in an example that crosses the Atlantic, a bank may install cameras to monitor its employees during the working day, but the employees must know, and the reasonable expectation to privacy means that areas like Bathrooms would not be filmed.

In domestic settings in the UK, the issue is not the right of the householder to make a film of anything that happens in their home, but the use to which it is put, but even here there could be a legal argument that just as any use of the film should only be made with the consent of those filmed, they should know in advance that they are being filmed so that they can object, and it would also be considered reasonable to protect an individual's privacy in a house by not installing a camera in the bathroom or toilet.

Either way, the person who has made or owns the film cannot broadcast it outside the home without the consent of those on the film. In addition to being a violation of privacy and consent law, this could also stray into sexual harassment issues in law. I would expect the law to make it illegal to share a home video on social media without the consent of those filmed.

As with official bodies like the police, it may come down to a vague issue like 'code of conduct' or moral judgement of what the Court thinks was reasonable for the parties at the time.

Note that the recording of sound is somewhat different and the law in the UK appears to be more strict with voice recordings than with film.

A reasonable expectation of privacy is the key term, and I cannot think of an encounter where it is most pertinent than in a sexual encounter between an escort and her client.

https://www.onlinespyshop.co.uk/uk-surveillance-law-the-essential-guide/

[krissy4u]

A reasonable expectation of privacy is the key term, and I cannot think of an encounter where it is most pertinent than in a sexual encounter between an escort and her client.

https://www.onlinespyshop.co.uk/uk-surveillance-law-the-essential-guide/

It's a really interesting legal issue that is just going to get worse as time goes on and technology advances. "Always connected" cameras are already sub $100.00 here in the US, and are selling well. I would guess that (if it hasn't already) in the near future, a case will be heard before the US Supreme Court regarding these devices. My guess would be, if the court is as stands now, they would side with the homeowner's right to record at any level within the strict confines of his/her property.

Also of interest to note - here in the US, escorting-wink-wink is still illegal. Engaging in this activity (as illegal) would automatically waive your right of privacy, which would make the criminal case of filming of an escort encounter even less likely to stand up in court - at least the way that I interpret the laws.

[Stavros]

Krissy, You point to an issue that is already proving difficult for government, that communications technology has, and is advancing beyond the ability of the state to control it. The various attempts being made to use technology to intercept and infiltrate social media, to 'snoop' on emails and web browsing behaviour is justified as part of the legal action the state can take against criminal activity, but the issue here is something more personal, if also shaped by the advances in technology.

I don't know the legal situation in the US, it may even changed from one State to another, but at root there remains that moral issue, namely the 'reasonable expectation of privacy' and the question of consent, where on balance I think it would be immoral for an escort to film a session without the consent of those involved, even if it remains legal as long as it is not shared. Consider the possibility that someone in the review section mentions a session with escort X who filmed the encounter, which the reviewer was pleased to receive a copy of. Someone else who also spent time with the escort may be horrified to think his session was also filmed, but even if he does nothing about it, a key component -trust- has been broken and he is unlikely to visit that escort again. Someone with a less forgiving nature bearing a grudge may visit her again to demand to know if he was filmed and then the film itself, and so on with potentially disastrous results.

There is here a can of worms, with issues legal and issues moral. If the escort has a fetish for filming encounters, she is surely morally obliged to tell her client in advance so that he can decide if wants to stay? For what guarantee is there that she will always be scrupulous with her material, and suppose someone else, perhaps her partner, decides to use that film for other purposes? All hypothetical, but with potentially damaging consequences.

[krissy4u]

There is here a can of worms, with issues legal and issues moral. If the escort has a fetish for filming encounters, she is surely morally obliged to tell her client in advance so that he can decide if wants to stay? For what guarantee is there that she will always be scrupulous with her material, and suppose someone else, perhaps her partner, decides to use that film for other purposes? All hypothetical, but with potentially damaging consequences.

I would strongly doubt there is a "fetish" aspect to filming encounters between an escort and a client (from the escort's point of view - probably plenty from the client's point of view). If done, it is probably either motivated by [nefarious] monetary gain, as you suggested, or for post-altercation safety / proof.

Mmmm... I don't think it is logical to bring "morals" into an argument for pro / con videoing of such encounters. Morally, there is a good chunk of the population that would say patronizing escorts and / or escorting in/of itself is morally questionable and therefore any subsequent action would be tainted and / or justified. The "two wrongs don't make a right, but two wrongs don't make it any wronger either..." argument. You can't bring morals into legality these days... They used to be aligned, but in this new age of moral relativity, it is a worthless argument to make a "moral" standpoint on a legal issue.

BTWs - I'm not advocating that escorts film their encounters, especially if they've got a nefarious reason for doing so. I'm simply making the point that some individuals believe it is illegal to do so when technically, it is not illegal given the terms I outlined (i.e. - you own the space, you're not recording sound, etc.).

[Stavros]

Mmmm... I don't think it is logical to bring "morals" into an argument for pro / con videoing of such encounters. Morally, there is a good chunk of the population that would say patronizing escorts and / or escorting in/of itself is morally questionable and therefore any subsequent action would be tainted and / or justified. The "two wrongs don't make a right, but two wrongs don't make it any wronger either..." argument. You can't bring morals into legality these days... They used to be aligned, but in this new age of moral relativity, it is a worthless argument to make a "moral" standpoint on a legal issue.


The moral element exists in consent with or without reference to the law. If the escort and the client agree to being filmed, the morality of the arrangement is solid, but even if they fall out for some reason, and out of spite, revenge or extortion illegally share the film with a third party, whatever the law says, the moral core, that at the time it was made the film was made by consenting adults, remains, and the law would have to, or one hopes would recognise this, and punish the person who broke that agreement. Society may make relative judgements of the morals involved, but the law has to make a decision, or there is no law. I can't say for the USA, but in addition to laws on privacy, the issue at hand could also be challenged under Human Rights law, a law the Conservative Govt wants to repeal.

[skribble1]

Athena Addams records her sessions... Thats how she filmed herself getting robbed. lol

whaaat?

[gaysian71]

I guess if you are married and caught on video having sex with an escort it could be a pretty expensive sexual encounter once you are done with the divorce, alimony and child support. But if you are single, why even care. I mean I'm sure there will be a little embarrassment. But that costs nothing.

[Stavros]

Related to this thread is the news today that a case of Revenge Porn has been won in the UK-

A YouTube celebrity has won unprecedented damages against her ex-boyfriend after he admitted uploading “revenge pornography” videos of her to the internet.

In the first civil case of its kind to be brought in England and Wales, 26-year-old Chrissy Chambers sued her former partner for harassment, breach of confidence and misuse of private information, after learning that the Crown Prosecution Service would not bring criminal charges against him.
The terms of the settlement mean the man cannot be named, nor the amount of damages paid to Chambers disclosed, but her lawyers at the firm McAllister Olivarius say the sum is substantial.

Chambers, who is American, is one of the most popular lesbian content creators on YouTube, along with her partner, Bria Kam. The channels they run together have a million subscribers, and their comedy sketches, songs and vlogs have been viewed hundreds of millions of times.

More here-
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/jan/17/youtube-star-chrissy-chambers-wins-damages-in-landmark-uk-revenge-porn-case

[african1]

Yes... it is. RECORDING ANYTHING IN THE PRIVACY OF YOUR OWN HOME IS LEGAL... PERIOD (recording sound along with video varies by state). That is why "Nanny-Cams" are able to exist. You have NO EXPECTATION of privacy if you are in someone else's house as a guest, employee, or whatever... except maybe in the restroom - you could probably make a case for that. Your expectation of privacy is waived... it isn't your property. This is why business owners, private property owners, etc. can record video or do surveillance on their property. You (as the owner) are the only one who as an expectation of privacy in your own home.

Could this view be challenged in court...? Sure... just like anything can be challenged in court. Privacy Laws govern where there is a "reasonable expectation of privacy" in most cases. These laws are largely for governing and protecting public places that should be considered private such as changing rooms, restrooms, massage rooms, locker rooms, etc.

Revenge porn is an issue, not because it simply exists as a recording, but because it is distributed without consent of the parties. The recording itself is completely legal (in simple cases). Like I said - WHAT YOU THEN DO WITH IT is the problem. Recording, in and of itself - is not a crime. That is my only point. You're twisting my words to include distribution - I never claimed that was legal at all... and in fact, I stated that in my post.

did you read the forbes article?

[krissy4u]

did you read the forbes article?

Yes, I did. Aaaannnddd... again... I have to say... it is completely illegal to record audio along with video in almost every state without consent... I'd bet in all cases mentioned in the article, the video recorded audio as well. THIS is what makes it illegal and able to be prosecuted in instances like the ones Forbes mentions specifically. Fuller's is quite a bit different as the space was leased and the camera put there by the landlord, therefore Ms. Fuller had a reasonable expectation of privacy as the "owner" of the space... not even really applicable in this context.

I don't know the details of the other case, but I would probably guess the warrant was obtained on the grounds of blackmail in some form or the presence of audio... which is illegal. I doubt a warrant was issued just on the legal point of an alleged recording being present. Had the guy never said he was going to post it... there would never have been a problem. Again, as I've already stated, it is what you do with a video recording that makes it illegal... not the actual recording itself... although NY does seem to have written their law to be exponentially more restrictive than many other states' laws. Bully for them.