Those US Police killers again!

[martin48]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32213482

April 2015: Walter Lamer Scott (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-32213482), 50, is shot eight times in South Carolina as he runs away from Officer Michael Slager. Mr Scott dies at the scene. The shooting is captured on video and Mr Slager is charged with murder.
December 2014: Jerame Reid (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30928110), 36, is shot dead during a routine traffic stop in New Jersey. An officer claims Mr Reid was reaching for a gun, but video footage seems to suggest he was attempting to step out of the car, hands raised.
November 2014: Tamir Rice (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30172433), a 12-year-old boy, is shot dead in a playground by Cleveland police after a local resident reports he is pointing a gun at passers by. The gun turns out to be a toy. A grand jury will decide whether police will face charges.
August 2014: Michael Brown (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30188737), an unarmed 18-year-old, is shot dead by Officer Darren Wilson in Ferguson, Missouri. The shooting leads to protests, first in Ferguson and later nationwide. A grand jury decides not to charge Mr Wilson.
July 2014: Eric Garner (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30317807), an asthma sufferer, is stopped by police in New York and placed in a chokehold after refusing to be handcuffed. He dies despite repeatedly telling officers he cannot breathe. No police are charged.
March 2014: James Boyd (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-30783324), an unarmed homeless man camping in Alberquerque, is shot dead by two officers. Video of the incident leads prosecutors to say the officers acted with "deliberate intention" and they are charged.

[trish]

Hey, it's the natural benefit of allowing citizens to carry concealed firearms. That way you can always blow someone away on the grounds you were afraid they were gonna pull out their weapon and blow you away. It's great fun for everyone. You should come over here and try it. It's like paint ball, only it's not paint!

[SuzySnappz]

This belongs on the Politics forum, not here.

[giovanni_hotel]

Cops suck.

When 'good' cops don't speak out against and root out the bad ones, they ALL are bad cops.

Shit is so crazy out here.

If there's no video, there's no crime.

[trish]

I would've thought an ideal place for this thread would be between two other threads on the general forum about transgenders being shot and murdered with ... with... What are those things called again? ...oh, yeah, GUNS.

[buttslinger]

Great to see you're all fighting again!!!
This will probably be the shortest comeback in Hung Angels history, but I can't wait to here Al Sharpton tonight at six blow this story up into proof that Whitey has it out for the Black Man.....BULLETIN!!!
Some South Carolina cop is a racist?? OH NOOOOO!!! SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!


Let me tell you what black people are guilty of- the unforgivable sin, the big hidden secret.

NOT MELTING into the GREAT AMERICAN MELTING POT

Please God, give black people their rights!!
Sorry, there's just us.
So much of racism is just plain stupidity, so many stupid people.
I'm afraid as long as black people refuse to give up their individuality and melt into the great American dream, dumb cops are going to look into their eyes and see a guilty person.

When I worked at the Library of Congress, it was half black, half white. Sometimes I would get high with the brothers, we'd all talk together, but in a large room, the blacks would all congregate to one side, the whites would all congregate to the other side. The black guys in their twenties were all on hard narcotics and would steal everything they could. As workers they were worthless. The older guys and women were pretty good workers, sometimes real good. For whatever reason,
testosterone + black blood=criminal.

I hope one day bullshit gets recognized as bullshit, and we can get along with the drudgery of saving our own skins. That could happen right now but it requires the unthinkable: forgiving others for their sins, like REALLY. And that takes a lifetime of forgivin. WORD!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgtQj8O92eI

[giovanni_hotel]

When WHITE PEOPLE get over racism, we will indeed have a 'more perfect union'.


Blaming Black folk for the existence of racism is like blaming a rape victim for leaving the house in a miniskirt and no bra.

[Stavros]

Let me get this straight -a 50 year old man runs away from a 33 year old policeman, but the policeman can't run after the 50 year old and arrest him because....he can't run fast enough? In how many cop shows did you see a chase on foot? But that's tv for you, they never do get it right.

[broncofan]

Hi Buttslinger. I enjoyed many of your posts here and I hope you continue to post, but racism against black people isn't the result of black people refusing to assimilate. Racism itself stands in the way of assimilation for everyone. This has been said about every group in history; people assimilate when they are treated the same way as the majority culture and not singled out for mistreatment.

About 240 years since we declared our independence of the Brits. For something like 190 of those years, African-Americans have either been enslaved or subject to facially discriminatory laws and de facto exclusion from places of public accommodation. Very convenient to now say that all of the racial disharmony in this country is the result of African-Americans not wanting to assimilate. So until the Civil War, African-Americans were in chains, until the civil rights movement, they were outcasts under the law....but now we are learning that the real problem has always been that they refuse to live peacefully among us? Not believable.

Police officers are more likely to use lethal force when apprehending African-American men. I try to judge each case on its merits, but the pattern seems clear.

[broncofan]

I watched the video of the murder. It was so cold-blooded, so brazen and malicious. I am hoping this is so bad that even the fox news folks might have enough decency not to defame the victim. If you saw this and have no feeling for the victim or don't think this kind of violence against defenseless people deserves protest, there's something wrong.

And yes, I generally prefer not to watch a video of a murder out of respect for the victim, but I would argue it's more important to know what happened here. Words can't adequately describe what the officer did here. It was the movie scene where a rogue cop decides to kill someone and begins manipulating the scene and sorting out his alibi. That's one thing movies get right.

[Odelay]

Hi Buttslinger. I enjoyed many of your posts here and I hope you continue to post, but racism against black people isn't the result of black people refusing to assimilate. Racism itself stands in the way of assimilation for everyone.
I agree with bf here, buttslinger. I like some of your posts but you're being an ass here asking black people to melt into this society, as if they haven't been trying for about 400 years.

[martin48]

So the thread got moved to a less visited place - so be it.

Buttslinger is right - blacks should "melt into society", the guy should have faced the cop, looked more aggressive and always be aware of some do-gooder taking a video.

For Americans, the above is sarcasm :dancing:


I agree with bf here, buttslinger. I like some of your posts but you're being an ass here asking black people to melt into this society, as if they haven't been trying for about 400 years.

[Stavros]

150 years ago today, at the Court House in Appomatox, Virginia, Robert E. Lee surrendered to Ulysses S. Grant. 750,000 dead, and the rest is history.

[buttslinger]

I was going to post in Stavros's nuclear Middle East post that there was a time in 1945 when White America really could have taken over the entire world, after melting Moscow, St Petersburg and a few other key Russian cities, who would not bow down to us? But I thought upsetting people on this thread would be easier.

Of course I'm just being inflammmmatory, it's not only me saying blacks are the only ones who didn't melt into the great American melting pot, they taught me that in Sociology 101. It's in the text book. I do not begin to understand what it's really like to be black, but I worked in Chocolate City (Wash DC) a couple years and based on that experience, I do not really see a viable plan to marry black to white.

In almost all cases where blacks are getting gunned down or choked, or injured, is when they RESIST.

In this case, in Ferguson, New York, those cases would have gone down MUCH BETTER had the dumb cops just let the guys go, it's called Law and ORDER, and the Police Officer with the Uniform is responsible for everything that goes down when he's on the scene. The Police are trained over and over to be the solution, not the problem, but stupid cops and stupid people, put them together when both are having a real bad day.......

I think this case in South Carolina is so open and shut there is like no discussion necessary, but in the wider world of reality, if 80 percent of the population wants to trample 20 percent of the population to get the best jobs and the best houses and the best schools, that's the Fuckin American Way!!! We're not COMMIES!! We give our "undesirables" jobs as garbagemen, janitors, maids, or convicts. And we're the greatest country in the World!!
Much of this is based on our Military and Police Force. Not the Bible.

With Obama in office, rules about marijuana, being gay, have gotten much better MUCH BETTER. But Obama does not send his kids to public schools in DC. No responsible Father would inflict his kids with that death sentence if he could afford not to.

Racism falls into the area of guns and abortion, foe me, anyway. On this forum it's pretty clear we're against guns, for abortion, against racism,.....but I'm really about 50-50 on most of these issues, until I get a multi-million dollar grant and staff to examine the facts clearly and objectively, I'll probably remain 50-50. I lived in a "black neighborhood" for over a decade, I didn't like it. But the mortgage was dirt cheap. You couldn't have anything good there. I got robbed twice, attacked in front of my house, had my car spray painted, my fence torn down every week.

A lot of Black Communities have hard core CHURCH-GOERS, who would most likely not have good things to say about the people here, people who choose NOT to abide by God's Law, ....obey, ...blend in with the Congregation. You don't stray from the flock.

I once bought a ten dollar rock of cocaine from a couple of black kids on a bicycle in the middle of the street in a bad drug area of DC, they must have been about eight and ten years old, and as I walked to the sidewalk I came eye-to-eye with one of the Church Ladies who was standing inside her gate and lived in that neighborhood and had to see all that stuff go on 24-7. We bad a brief but intense moment, I was the sinner. Eyeball to Eyeball.

I don't blames the Blacks for racism any more than I blame the American Indian for genocide. I AM A WHITE MAN!!!! DAMMIT!!!

[broncofan]

I thought I provided a perfectly good alternative by using the word assimilate, but it seems everyone prefers the metaphor of white people and black people in a giant pot melting together. How about blending together? Does anyone like frappes? Mixing? :tongue:

From Britannica below:
Assimilation, in anthropology and sociology, the process whereby individuals or groups of differing ethnic heritage are absorbed into the dominant culture of a society.

Anyhow, I would shake my head at your purchase of cocaine from an 8 year old child....but I guess it's much better than selling to children? I'm calling on my forced optimism gene here.

[buttslinger]

Anyhow, I would shake my head at your purchase of cocaine from an 8 year old child....but I guess it's much better than selling to children? I'm calling on my forced optimism gene here.

In strange days, that episode was extra-strange, I do remember the rock they sold me was one of the best ever!

Truth is I don't think any WhiteMan can understand Black Pain, no matter how liberal you are. I don't think there is a logical solution, I know if I ever go to Prison, I'm going to hang with the Aryan Brotherhood. Out here in the suburbs, I can pretend to be anything I want to be, an enlightened seer of Truth, whatever, what difference does it make? After you hit age Thirty, all the noble causes kind of fade away into the noble cause of making the most amount of money for the least amount of work.

I seems to me that the Brothers who have gotten killed in the News lately all share one thing: It's like they all finally had all they could take and just kind of snapped. It's not what you see- it's all the stuff you don't see. All you see is the last straw.

[LI SEAN08]

Im sorry the guy lost his life like that!!! At least the scumbag redneck cop is in jail with NO BAIL!!! His day is coming, just a matter of time!!!!

[giovanni_hotel]

New police video shows the murder victim when he was originally stopped lied to the P.O. about his ownership of the car and absolutely bugged out and ran abandoning the vehicle once the cop went back to his squad car to check his ID.

Not good. But it explains why he was shot 250 yards from his car.

There was an altercation after the cop initially caught up with him and I saw a photo on CNN today that looks like the cop had taser lines in his arm, apparently he was shot by the taser in trying to apprehend the suspect.

Okay, given those circumstances, I understand the cop was maybe pissed off all this bullshit was going down over a random stop, but you still don't pull out your service revolver and gun a man down because you're sick of chasing his ass.

Let him go. Don't kill him.

You have his ID and car.
Arrest him at his home.

Cops piss me the fuck off but unless you think a cop is about to kill you on the spot, running from a cop usually always ends up badly for someone.

[martin48]

*******

[goatman]

I was going to post in Stavros's nuclear Middle East post that there was a time in 1945 when White America really could have taken over the entire world, after melting Moscow, St Petersburg and a few other key Russian cities, who would not bow down to us? But I thought upsetting people on this thread would be easier.

Of course I'm just being inflammmmatory, it's not only me saying blacks are the only ones who didn't melt into the great American melting pot, they taught me that in Sociology 101. It's in the text book. I do not begin to understand what it's really like to be black, but I worked in Chocolate City (Wash DC) a couple years and based on that experience, I do not really see a viable plan to marry black to white.

In almost all cases where blacks are getting gunned down or choked, or injured, is when they RESIST.

In this case, in Ferguson, New York, those cases would have gone down MUCH BETTER had the dumb cops just let the guys go, it's called Law and ORDER, and the Police Officer with the Uniform is responsible for everything that goes down when he's on the scene. The Police are trained over and over to be the solution, not the problem, but stupid cops and stupid people, put them together when both are having a real bad day.......

I think this case in South Carolina is so open and shut there is like no discussion necessary, but in the wider world of reality, if 80 percent of the population wants to trample 20 percent of the population to get the best jobs and the best houses and the best schools, that's the Fuckin American Way!!! We're not COMMIES!! We give our "undesirables" jobs as garbagemen, janitors, maids, or convicts. And we're the greatest country in the World!!
Much of this is based on our Military and Police Force. Not the Bible.

With Obama in office, rules about marijuana, being gay, have gotten much better MUCH BETTER. But Obama does not send his kids to public schools in DC. No responsible Father would inflict his kids with that death sentence if he could afford not to.

Racism falls into the area of guns and abortion, foe me, anyway. On this forum it's pretty clear we're against guns, for abortion, against racism,.....but I'm really about 50-50 on most of these issues, until I get a multi-million dollar grant and staff to examine the facts clearly and objectively, I'll probably remain 50-50. I lived in a "black neighborhood" for over a decade, I didn't like it. But the mortgage was dirt cheap. You couldn't have anything good there. I got robbed twice, attacked in front of my house, had my car spray painted, my fence torn down every week.

A lot of Black Communities have hard core CHURCH-GOERS, who would most likely not have good things to say about the people here, people who choose NOT to abide by God's Law, ....obey, ...blend in with the Congregation. You don't stray from the flock.

I once bought a ten dollar rock of cocaine from a couple of black kids on a bicycle in the middle of the street in a bad drug area of DC, they must have been about eight and ten years old, and as I walked to the sidewalk I came eye-to-eye with one of the Church Ladies who was standing inside her gate and lived in that neighborhood and had to see all that stuff go on 24-7. We bad a brief but intense moment, I was the sinner. Eyeball to Eyeball.

I don't blames the Blacks for racism any more than I blame the American Indian for genocide. I AM A WHITE MAN!!!! DAMMIT!!!

Sooo, I'm guessing you never got busted for buying & you've since kicked the habit?

[buttslinger]

Sooo, I'm guessing you never got busted for buying & you've since kicked the habit?

I don't even drink or smoke cigarettes anymore, TOO OLD!!


Bottom line, the whiteman is losing his power in the USA, even the blackman is going to be squeezed by the Mexicans, and the Asians.

The name WASHINGTON REDSKINS will be changed. Not because it's the right thing to do, but because they're gonna get squeezed.

And Martin, you Brits weren't so concerned about the plight of the underdog when you were colonizing the entire world and up to your ears in the slave trade!

I predict a certain amount of favor will sway towards the white cop at trial-time, simply as a thank you to the white cop that arrested so many negro gangstas, alimony-evaders, etc etc etc.

Q) How many New York City policemen does it take to push a black man down the stairs?
A) None. He fell.

Millions of law abiding US Citizens don't like to see people getting away with shit. It's not enough they work hard, save their money and play by the rules.
There is a feeling among white people that black people will not pull their own weight unless forced to.

Yes, I am messing with you guys a bit, provoking, and enflaming, I think a joke is a joke, a fight is a fight but WHAT"S RIGHT IS WHAT'S RIGHT

I don't believe in Communism, but I do believe in Unions. There are thousands and thousands of black cops that aren't Uncle Toms. They are the ones who are going to change things.

[goatman]

I don't even drink or smoke cigarettes anymore, TOO OLD!!


Bottom line, the whiteman is losing his power in the USA, even the blackman is going to be squeezed by the Mexicans, and the Asians.

The name WASHINGTON REDSKINS will be changed. Not because it's the right thing to do, but because they're gonna get squeezed.

And Martin, you Brits weren't so concerned about the plight of the underdog when you were colonizing the entire world and up to your ears in the slave trade!

I predict a certain amount of favor will sway towards the white cop at trial-time, simply as a thank you to the white cop that arrested so many negro gangstas, alimony-evaders, etc etc etc.

Q) How many New York City policemen does it take to push a black man down the stairs?
A) None. He fell.

Millions of law abiding US Citizens don't like to see people getting away with shit. It's not enough they work hard, save their money and play by the rules.
There is a feeling among white people that black people will not pull their own weight unless forced to.

Yes, I am messing with you guys a bit, provoking, and enflaming, I think a joke is a joke, a fight is a fight but WHAT"S RIGHT IS WHAT'S RIGHT

I don't believe in Communism, but I do believe in Unions. There are thousands and thousands of black cops that aren't Uncle Toms. They are the ones who are going to change things.

We've had almost a half century of a counter-productive "War On Drugs"(complete with stupid mandatory sentencing guidelines), crumbling infrastructure , loss of native manufacturing base(& the necessary skill set), a sub-par educational system & a political/corporate class that panders to the worst human instincts & would rather import help than invest in its own citizens. A perfect storm for chaos.

[broncofan]

I realize you're just trying to be edgy/inflammatory Buttslinger. But I honestly think there's been a sea change here. People saw that video, were appalled and understand better why many black men are justifiably afraid of the police. I agree with Giovanni' post that nobody should run from the police during a questioning...and if the officer was tasered, that changes the complexion of what happened from a cold assassination to a simpler, less devious murder but a murder nonetheless.

As for your view that black people don't pull their weight, I've also heard people say the same thing. It's the type of thing people will say and believe regardless of the facts. It's how racism perpetuates itself, by confirmation bias. These people will view any black man who works hard as an exception (instead of the more logical option which is to re-evaluate the stereotype and discard it).

Here's the other thing...when a white man orders a black man to do his job or get fired, he is just demanding everyone pull his weight. But what if your employer is black and he/she orders you to do something or get fired? I am not playing race against race, but the fact is, nobody likes to think they are the loser in a power struggle. If you are an employer you see your subordinates as lazy and if you are the employed you see your boss as heartless and unable to account for your circumstances. As more African-Americans are in positions of power, we see more paranoia. Time to put aside the recrimination about who is pulling their weight and pay attention to the real issues! Unarmed people being shot speaks much more loudly than unconfirmed claims that some races are not pulling their weight.

[buttslinger]

We've had almost a half century of a counter-productive "War On Drugs"(complete with stupid mandatory sentencing guidelines), crumbling infrastructure , loss of native manufacturing base(& the necessary skill set), a sub-par educational system & a political/corporate class that panders to the worst human instincts & would rather import help than invest in its own citizens. A perfect storm for chaos.

My posts are obviously for entertainment value only, any truth I throw in is just to confuse things even more, I agree with you, I think every one agrees with you, the problem is I don't know if there is anything that could REALISTICALLY be done to make the 1950s go on forever, back then you could clerk in a hardware store and support a family of five.
It would be hard to find anyone who truthfully could have drawn up a plan to counteract all the problems that have risen over the past fifty years, and it would be IMPOSSIBLE to find the people who could have carried out that plan, America is successful because in a sense it counts on people being selfish and stacking up as much cash as they can, and then it taxes them. It counts on people competing with each other. It counts on people stepping on the hands of the people under them on the ladder. You never know what disaster or problem might arise, but you can bet the house that people will buy million dollar lottery tickets, even if the chances are ten million to one. I think if you took away the one percent of the Americans that mess up all the statistics, you'd find the living in Germany is a lot better than living here. Sieg Heil!!!

[buttslinger]

I realize you're just trying to be edgy/inflammatory ..Unarmed people being shot speaks much more loudly than unconfirmed claims that some races are not pulling their weight.

I think my point boils down to ....if you wanted to buy a house......where would you want to go to, a black neighborhood, or a white neighborhood? In other words, a RICH neighborhood, or a POOR neighborhood? You would be exactly the same guy, but in one house you would be surrounded by crime and misery, in the other house manicured lawns and laughing children.
Do people in slums not carry their weight?

We could clean up ALL the bad neighborhoods right now- just pour money into them....that's what the Republicans say Obama is doing.

I liked that show THE WIRE where the black bosses were just as big an asshole as the white bosses. And the white teacher got the black kids to study math only if he showed them why math says the chances of rolling a six in craps is much better than rolling a twelve.

People never think of themselves as assholes, if one out of ten people think you're an asshole, you're probably OK, but if nine out of ten people think you're an asshole.....you're an asshole. Who speaks for all the assholes, aren't they Americans too? Do assholes deserve the same consideration as everyone else? I'm sure we as a nation would be much better off if we deported the assholes or put them in asshole camps.


Somewhere along the line you have to decide how much THE HAVES must invest in the HAVE NOTS.

All this has little to do with that shooting in Carolina. As the prices of cameras continues to go down, the Light of Truth is going to shine brighter. I hate fucking red light cameras. If that cop had a camera on his lapel, there wouldn't have been a shooting.

I have to go work in the yard it is a gorgeous day here.

[broncofan]

People never think of themselves as assholes, if one out of ten people think you're an asshole, you're probably OK, but if nine out of ten people think you're an asshole.....you're an asshole. Who speaks for all the assholes, aren't they Americans too? Do assholes deserve the same consideration as everyone else? I'm sure we as a nation would be much better off if we deported the assholes or put them in asshole camps.

I'm not trying to lecture but I obviously have similarly strong views. It sounds to me like you're saying that we've gone so far in combatting bigotry that we don't think any behavior is blameworthy. I think that misunderstands what bigotry is.

It's perfectly okay to discriminate based on behavior. It's quite different from discrimination based on heritage. Bad behavior is easy enough to identify, so why then do people always try to use ethnicity as a proxy for behavioral patterns? Personally I think it's because people want to blame the innocent for the behavior of the guilty. I don't know why...but if someone doesn't like crime, they should blame criminals, not accuse entire ethnic groups of having criminal tendencies. Enjoy your yard, I'm going out myself.

[fred41]

Hey, it's the natural benefit of allowing citizens to carry concealed firearms. That way you can always blow someone away on the grounds you were afraid they were gonna pull out their weapon and blow you away. It's great fun for everyone. You should come over here and try it. It's like paint ball, only it's not paint!

I agree, guns both legal and illegal have gotten out of hand. In some of these states, every traffic stop is a potential shooting. It creates a hell of a lot more tension than would normally be necessary.

[fred41]

I also don't think every individual incident listed in the OP necessarily is an example of "Police Killers"...but hey, nothing like a little hyperbole...


but gee, I'm an American so I may not understand if this is meant to be sarcasm or not...:dancing:

[goatman]

Just in : There's been a shooting/suicide by cop at the Capitol.

[goatman]

I realize you're just trying to be edgy/inflammatory Buttslinger. But I honestly think there's been a sea change here. People saw that video, were appalled and understand better why many black men are justifiably afraid of the police. I agree with Giovanni' post that nobody should run from the police during a questioning...and if the officer was tasered, that changes the complexion of what happened from a cold assassination to a simpler, less devious murder but a murder nonetheless.

As for your view that black people don't pull their weight, I've also heard people say the same thing. It's the type of thing people will say and believe regardless of the facts. It's how racism perpetuates itself, by confirmation bias. These people will view any black man who works hard as an exception (instead of the more logical option which is to re-evaluate the stereotype and discard it).

Here's the other thing...when a white man orders a black man to do his job or get fired, he is just demanding everyone pull his weight. But what if your employer is black and he/she orders you to do something or get fired? I am not playing race against race, but the fact is, nobody likes to think they are the loser in a power struggle. If you are an employer you see your subordinates as lazy and if you are the employed you see your boss as heartless and unable to account for your circumstances. As more African-Americans are in positions of power, we see more paranoia. Time to put aside the recrimination about who is pulling their weight and pay attention to the real issues! Unarmed people being shot speaks much more loudly than unconfirmed claims that some races are not pulling their weight.

Black people pull their weight(& more often than not, the weight of the ENTIRE COUNTRY!!) We've been doing it since 1619 & often it seems on a treadmill. No other group gets single out as a group for the behaviors of a FEW DYSFUNCTIONAL INDIVIDUALS. No other group has been as loyal or as faithfully invested in the nation as us. (Think about: if push comes to shove, the Irish can go back to Ireland, the Italians Italy. Mexicans, Chinese, Polish, etc., etc. Where can we go?) N

[broncofan]

I'm an American so I may not understand if this is meant to be sarcasm or not...:dancing:
You know what I call people who don't laugh at MY jokes? Humor impaired. :tongue:

[goatman]

My posts are obviously for entertainment value only, any truth I throw in is just to confuse things even more

I like that line, mind if I borrow some time?

[buttslinger]

I like that line, mind if I borrow some time?

That line about Blacks being the only ethnic group that didn't melt in the great American melting pot really is right out of the College Bookshelf, I guess if you really wanted to understand racism, police procedure, etc, there are tons of books that feature Authorities on the matter, guys that take the time to be RIGHT. A good Historian has to see through people's colorization of the facts when they filter through tons of eye witness accounts.
You can't talk about racism here without pictures of chicks with dicks flashing on either side. You can't speak on Fox News without eventually exposing yourself as an asshole. In matters of racism, who you are, your perspective, drastically colors what racism is.

I consider former Cowboys receiver Michael Irvin a N*GG*R, sorry, I can't stand looking at him. Clinton prosecutor Ken Starr, he's the flip side.

Stepping outside one's self to see things clearly probably means no hung angels, no gang of personal friends, pretty dry stuff. Being a racist or blaming whites for all the problems in the black community is fun and easy, you'll have lots of friends either way. In history, there is an EXPLANATION for everything. In Eastern Religion, history is a product of the glands. And GLANDS are hot stuff here on Hung Angels!! Let's Rock!!!

[buttslinger]

I guess my last word on this topic will be the white cop is going to say that years of training and street experience left him no doubt that the perp who ran from justice was trying to wrestle away his stun gun so he could taze a police officer in uniform, grab his police gun and kill him. Then the cop will hope and pray the blood tox on the dead man comes back with signs of PCP and bath salts.
As for the melting pot, I been thinkin' ..........The American Indian refused to fit into white society, probably because they had no history of it. They would team up with the white man in the French and Indian Wars, but mainly they would either fight the white man or sign a treaty, never melt. The Japanese are notorious racists, probably because they all lived on an island forever. The Europeans who came to America had been co-mingling for thousands of years in Europe, so melting into the great American melting pot was probably pretty natural. The Africans who came to America largely came as slaves, they were slaves in Africa, captured by enemy tribes, building pyramids, so unfortune-ately maybe they're atuned to slaving away in shit jobs, like, what else is new, man?
The old joke is that the poor Asian comes to American, works 18 hours a day to save up enough to buy a small store, raises a couple kids, then, when the eldest son is 16 and ready to spend a few hours after school in the store to help out says.....
"nah, I'd rather hang out with my friends at the mall"
I think in the end economic realities are going to be what kills the USA more than racism, or illegal aliens, or guns, or abortion. There are billions of dirt poor Chinese and Indian people poised to take our cash.

[thombergeron]

The Europeans who came to America had been co-mingling for thousands of years in Europe, so melting into the great American melting pot was probably pretty natural.

What an absurd load of crap. You have no idea what you're talking about. How did the Jews get on in that great European "melting pot." Or the Romani? Or the Irish? Or the Poles? How have the Slavs been doing co-mingling with the rest of Europe, or even with other Slavs?

The American "melting pot" is ahistorical nonsense, intended to shift blame for bigotry onto those being marginalized. Oh, your family experienced injustice? Maybe you should have tried harder to assimilate.

My family emigrated from Scandinavia to Minnesota in the 1860s. It was three generations and almost 100 years before the family spoke English at home. I'm a fifth-generation American of 100% Scandinavian descent. How often to you hear people bemoaning the fact that Scandinavian-Americans just refuse to assimilate and adopt American values? What about those Pennsylvania Dutch who still refuse to speak English and wear regular clothes?


I think in the end economic realities are going to be what kills the USA more than racism, or illegal aliens, or guns, or abortion. There are billions of dirt poor Chinese and Indian people poised to take our cash.

More thoughtless xenophobia. The United States of America is stronger economically right now than it has ever been. There is no chance that any of the things that you mention are going to "kill the USA." Those "billions of dirt poor Chinese and Indian people" are in no position to "take" anyone's cash. If we are careful and do things correctly, we'll be able to exchange US cash for the goods and services that Chinese and the Indians produce, and they'll in turn that use that cash to purchase goods and services that the US produces.

Macroeconomics is not a zero-sum game. Read a book, dude.

[buttslinger]

Macroeconomics is not a zero-sum game. Read a book, dude.

Ah, another one walks into my web.
You speak Scandanavian?
Do the Amish drive cars or talk on the telephone?? THEY"RE you're examples???

If you ever do your blood DNA, maybe you'll be almost all Scandanavian, but I'm sure the Vikings put a lot of DNA into Europe. What with all that pillaging and raping. Scandanavia is opening up it's doors to Muslims now because they need the tax revenue, nobody else wants to go there. I imagine eskimos have real pure blood. My blood has lots of English and Scottish, and probably lots of other stuff also.
The kid who mows my lawn's last name is Engvall. My friend's families growing up originally came from Sweden, Germany, France, Italy, Russia, MELTING POT. Mainly European Countries. That's what a melting pot is. Scandanavians are 100% included in the American melting pot. People from Arkansas are different from people from Vermont, but they all grow up with the same school books.
There is a good chance you don't understand my writing style, you don't think there is an American melting pot?
As for Europe, I don't think there is any continent on the earth with a more diversified population, other than the US.

There is no doubt the American place as top dog is on the decline. There is no doubt China and India's economic star is rising. If everybody's house is worth a million bucks, that's a bad thing. Economically, it would be better if China was buying Fords and Levis. We are buying much more from them than they are buying from us. In that sense, they are stealing our cash. If you subtracted the 50% of our wealth that the one percenters own, many countries in Europe would be doing better than us.
The USA is not stronger now than it has ever been. We were better off in the 1950s when Dad went to work and Mom and the five kids lived off his puny salary.

[martin48]

Personally, I don't need to feel responsible for all the actions of my government or its security services now; let alone 200 years ago.

Living in a city about to celebrate 800 years since the signing of theca Magna Carta and that we hold one in our castle, I believe in what it states:



24. No Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseised of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will We not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the Land. We will sell to no man, we will not deny or defer to any man either Justice or Right.


I understand the Magna Carta forms the basis of your own constitution









And Martin, you Brits weren't so concerned about the plight of the underdog when you were colonizing the entire world and up to your ears in the slave trade!

[buttslinger]

Personally, I don't need to feel responsible for all the actions of my government or its security services now; let alone 200 years ago.
I understand the Magna Carta forms the basis of your own constitution

History is about guys knocking other guys off, my 4fathers said it was self evident that all men are created equal, not women, certainly not black men! And what spurred the Magna Carta and the American Revolution? Englishmen taxing folk for their own coffers. MONEY and POWER.
History is not wrong, people are wrong, and the English Museum is full of stuff you guys looted from your colonization days, those were different times, Abe Lincoln almost had his head eliminated by an Indian when he was just a kid, his wounded brother shot the Indian and then died, I believe. Abe Lincoln freed the slaves only in the Confederacy, and he was the one who sent slaves back to Africa, Liberia, I believe. Thombergeron is half right, I do read books, I just forget them after they re closed.
If you map Europe every century for the past three thousand years, a different empire is in charge each century, all the way round the Mediterranean Sea blood has been mixing for thousands of years, not so much in Africa, or Australia or Norway. The British are need deep in blood and guns during their time in the sun, the sun never sets on the English Empire!
This is Our Time now, and it will end eventually, just like every other super power that ever existed. The EAST is rising. Nikka should put her website in Chinese and Korean, lots of money to be made there.
After Vietnam, the USA changed it's immigration laws so we could save all our Vietnamese friends from a bloodbath. So since the seventies it's been less Europeans coming in to the US, more everybody else. Then there's the Hispanics.
I think the future is going to be less black/white confrontation, and more alienation by everybody. If you live in an American urban coastal CITY, it is a world apart from a rural American Midwest town. Everybody knows each other in Mayberry, but there were no black people in Mayberry. Or Beaver Cleaver's school. You had Rochester on the Jack Benny show, Beulah, but I don't think you had any real black people until Sanford and Son.
(Steptoe and Son, Martin)
I have a sneaking suspicion that Giovanni Hotel and his homies aren't so much after racial equality and the harmonization of the races as they are into getting some of the WHITEMAN cash and whiteman power ....access to all the stuff the whiteman gets. You know, "Uppity"........

Bullshit aside, it's sad black people have to die to have a conversation about race relations in the US, or kids have to die to have a conversation about guns. Even though we stole this country from the Indians, and enslaved black families, and dominate the world with nuclear weapons, this is the Land of the Free. Free Speech. just pay postage and handling. For a limited time, get two free speeches, just pay extra postage and handling.

[broncofan]

I guess my last word on this topic will be the white cop is going to say that years of training and street experience left him no doubt that the perp who ran from justice was trying to wrestle away his stun gun so he could taze a police officer in uniform, grab his police gun and kill him. Then the cop will hope and pray the blood tox on the dead man comes back with signs of PCP and bath salts.

In other words, he's hoping there is something he can do to distract the jury from the fact that he shot an unarmed man three times in the back. At the time he fired his gun the man wasn't a threat to him. There's therefore no self-defense.

Are you aware of the fact that Native Americans were aggressively displaced from their land and killed? They weren't exactly invited to be part of the American melting pot. Had there been a large influx of Native Americans who were eager to adopt American values, who's to say they would not have been discriminated against? Either way, it's tough to blame them for wanting to continue their way of life on the little land that was apportioned to them.

I have not read a history book that insists as you say that African-Americans suffered discrimination because of a willful refusal to adopt American customs. That's pretty obviously a false narrative.

[buttslinger]

In other words, he's hoping there is something he can do to distract the jury from the fact that he shot an unarmed man three times in the back. At the time he fired his gun the man wasn't a threat to him. There's therefore no self-defense.

Are you aware of the fact that Native Americans were aggressively displaced from their land and killed? They weren't exactly invited to be part of the American melting pot. Had there been a large influx of Native Americans who were eager to adopt American values, who's to say they would not have been discriminated against? Either way, it's tough to blame them for wanting to continue their way of life on the little land that was apportioned to them.

I have not read a history book that insists as you say that African-Americans suffered discrimination because of a willful refusal to adopt American customs. That's pretty obviously a false narrative.

If that cop can get a jury to believe that Walter Scott was trying to steal his tazer so he could zap him and possibly shoot him, then Walter Scott goes from a guy guilty of a broken tail light to a guy guilty of attempted murder. You can't let an attempted murderer run off into the general population! If he wasn't guilty, why did he run?? Just like Travon Martin, they're going to start a smear campaign against Walter Scott, you watch. Don't believe your eyes.

One of my relatives down south married an Indian princess, my brother spotted it because my cousin Brenda has eyelids that only Indians have. Maybe Brenda can open a casino. Yeah, I would say Indians did not melt into the great American Melting Pot. And How.

If I said African Americans suffered discrimination because they didn't want to be "Uncle Toms" I think that might need more thinking or discussion .....there are lots of ethnic groups that were discriminated against, but over the generations they were absorbed into the white side of the room. This is the story Mike told me at the Library of Congress that I have mentioned here before. Mike grew up an Air Force brat in Asia, where he wasn't black, he was American. He didn't become black til he moved to DC. They had a retirement party for one of the big shots, the crowd was salt and pepper. But as soon as the speeches were over and cake and punch were served, Mike looked up and saw all the whites on one side of the room, and all the blacks on the other. Mike said he had never seen this before. If I were black I wouldn't want to be a Tom, just because I wouldn't want all my black friends calling me a Tom. If a black person works hard to better his or her self and family, and fails. Don't blame me!!!

I believe that Obama sees America not as the shining house on the hill, America is the NEIGHBORHOOD you grow up in. I think in his heart and soul he does what he does to make those black neighborhoods great.
Then.....Obama, save us from Isis.
Obama, cut my taxes
Obama, give me something. Do something for me, solve my problems, save the world.
I think there are things Obama has set in motion, like Obamacare, that will noticeably change things for the better in a way all Americans will recognize. Lots of the Bush stuff will take years to undo. But there is no human being that that can make a Black Man believe they've been "given" enough. I said it. It's in print. Don't argue with me or I'll shoot you.

[buttslinger]

I guess this is a bad forum to celebrate racism, no one will bite on my digs. Even the upcoming 2016 election has every promise of being a real snoozer, Hillary is a shoe-in, and for a while at least, the Republicans will have the governors and police chiefs and dog catchers in their states, and the Democrats will have the governors and police chiefs in theirs. The Democrats will have the Presidency, and hopefully the Supreme Court, and that is about as good as it gets for all the underdogs.
If a black person says "let me axe you a question" nobody is going to take them seriously.
If a black person puts his hand on a police officer's uniform, they are going DOWN!
This isn't England, this is the United States of America.

You could take any Stavros article and copy and paste it to a newspaper op-ed section, Ben puts thought into all the articles he cuts and pastes here.

I don't think I'll really be satisfied until I start insulting all the guys that start gobbling hormone pills so they can get a free dinner and a free fuck.
And start insulting all the guys who find magic in a pretty girl.....with a DICK!!!!!

Maybe then we could get some real passion going on down here again.

[broncofan]

If that cop can get a jury to believe that Walter Scott was trying to steal his tazer so he could zap him and possibly shoot him, then Walter Scott goes from a guy guilty of a broken tail light to a guy guilty of attempted murder. You can't let an attempted murderer run off into the general population! If he wasn't guilty, why did he run?? Just like Travon Martin, they're going to start a smear campaign against Walter Scott, you watch. Don't believe your eyes.
.
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a smear campaign or even if it works. But often it's difficult to comment on the verdicts of juries because they are finders of fact and they don't reveal what their factual determinations are when they render a verdict. Here, the facts are generally well known, although various facts may be emphasized differently by the jurors the only significant matter left for them is an application of a legal standard to these facts. If a jury acquits the officer, it will be a case of jury nullification. If you were to give a law student a hypothetical in a criminal law class telling him that a police officer was assaulted and then shot an unarmed man as he was running away, he would not be very smart to argue that the officer acted in self-defense or had a legal privilege to apprehend the criminal by shooting him. What would his argument be? That an unarmed man who committed an assault is such a danger to the public that the police should shoot him if he doesn't surrender immediately? That would be to sanction summary executions.

Interestingly, in old-timey gangster movies, they would often show officers shooting people accused of serious crimes because they wouldn't surrender. I'm not sure if that was ever considered acceptable practice or if it was just not prosecuted or even if the movies portrayed something that actually took place.

[broncofan]

BTW, from my recollection it's very hard to prove attempted murder. If someone dies because their assailant tried to cause them serious bodily injury, there is a plausible argument for second degree murder. You can argue that they intentionally committed acts intended to cause serious bodily harm, which resulted in death, even if death was not certain to flow from those actions. But to commit attempted murder, you need specific intent. You need to be trying to kill them. If you shoot someone in the leg and they die, it may be second degree murder. But if you shoot them in the leg and they survive it's probably not attempted murder.

Anyhow, my point is that even if Walter Scott had tried to grab the officer's gun that's not attempted murder. Arguing that it's attempted murder when you taser an officer, because then you'd be free to grab their gun doesn't make much sense to me. That would be like arguing that it's attempted murder to run from a cop because then you could ambush them when they chase you. So, if Walter Scott tasered the officer, it's assault…and as he was running away unarmed the threat to officer safety had ended.

[Stavros]

I guess this is a bad forum to celebrate racism, no one will bite on my digs. Even the upcoming 2016 election has every promise of being a real snoozer, Hillary is a shoe-in, and for a while at least, the Republicans will have the governors and police chiefs and dog catchers in their states, and the Democrats will have the governors and police chiefs in theirs. The Democrats will have the Presidency, and hopefully the Supreme Court, and that is about as good as it gets for all the underdogs.
If a black person says "let me axe you a question" nobody is going to take them seriously.
If a black person puts his hand on a police officer's uniform, they are going DOWN!
This isn't England, this is the United States of America.



We may not have gun crime at the level of the USA, but we have it. Stop and search tactics which the police use to prevent crime regularly target Black and Asian male youths more than any other identifiable group in society -yes, this is 'England', and our police are not always so wonderful. Thus:

21,937 prisoners, was from a minority ethnic group. This compares to around one in 10 of the general population.

Out of the British national prison population, 11% are black and 6% are Asian. For black Britons this is significantly higher than the 2.8% of the general population they represent.

Overall black prisoners account for the largest number of minority ethnic prisoners (50%).

At the end of June 2012, 29% of minority ethnic prisoners were foreign nationals.

According to the Equality and Human Rights Commission, there is now greater disproportionality in the number of black people in prisons in the UK than in the United States.

from
http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/projectsresearch/race

[celticgrafix]

Why run? If you are innocent and there is no reason for them to charge or arrest you for anything, then why give them a reason? Innocent people don't flee

[martin48]

A little naive thought! What are the reasons a law officer should shoot to kill anyone? My view is only when the suspect is most likely to be a lethal danger to others or the officer. It is difficult to be a "lethal danger" if you are running away.





Why run? If you are innocent and there is no reason for them to charge or arrest you for anything, then why give them a reason? Innocent people don't flee

[trish]

If you run away at near the speed of light your gain in kinetic energy could warp space-time around you and drag innocent bystanders into your gravitational wake endangering their lives...or not. Here in the U.S. of A., we rather shoot than take the risk. It's better, not to mention more fun, to shoot and kill one innocent man (especially if he's black) than risk letting him get away and never knowing whether he was innocent or not.

[broncofan]

Why run? If you are innocent and there is no reason for them to charge or arrest you for anything, then why give them a reason? Innocent people don't flee
Innocent of what? I don't think there was any dispute Mr. Scott was pulled over for legitimate reasons and the officer had a right and duty to try to apprehend him when he fled. Juries are often instructed that fleeing can be seen as consciousness of guilt.

The issue is whether an officer has a right to kill a suspect who is trying to evade him. Not unless that person poses an immediate lethal threat to the officer or others. Not a general threat to public safety based on what they've already done, but an imminent threat of that proportion.

[fred41]

Innocent of what? I don't think there was any dispute Mr. Scott was pulled over for legitimate reasons and the officer had a right and duty to try to apprehend him when he fled. Juries are often instructed that fleeing can be seen as consciousness of guilt.

The issue is whether an officer has a right to kill a suspect who is trying to evade him. Not unless that person poses an immediate lethal threat to the officer or others. Not a general threat to public safety based on what they've already done, but an imminent threat of that proportion.

That's true in Mr. Scott's case, but I assume you know the law changes if Mr. Scott had a gun. There are a few other situations where an officer could use deadly physical force against a person running...but what usually prohibits a majority of this in the United States (and this has been mentioned before) is Tennessee vs. Garner.


I should note however, police officers aren't trained to shoot to 'kill'. All future sarcastic posts aside, this is an important distinction.

[broncofan]

.but what usually prohibits a majority of this in the United States (and this has been mentioned before) is Tennessee vs. Garner.
.
I actually haven't read Tennesse v. Garner and should…..

Edit: I just looked at a case synopsis. This is what I remember from criminal procedure. That under the 4th amendment, killing someone is a seizure and requires probable cause that they are a serious threat of death or serious injury. I wonder if just having a gun on one's person is enough…certainly if the person has it out, they pose that kind of threat to others.

Interestingly, the synopsis I read said that at common law officers were allowed to shoot fleeing individuals suspected of felonies. So that explains why in The Public Enemy and Little Caesar and all those movies the officers were just blasting away.

[fred41]

I actually haven't read Tennesse v. Garner and should…..

Edit: I just looked at a case synopsis. This is what I remember from criminal procedure. That under the 4th amendment, killing someone is a seizure and requires probable cause that they are a serious threat of death or serious injury. I wonder if just having a gun on one's person is enough…certainly if the person has it out, they are a threat to others.

Interestingly, the synopsis I read said that at common law officers were allowed to shoot fleeing individuals suspected of felonies. So that explains why in The Public Enemy and Little Caesar and all those movies the officers were just blasting away.

It's drummed into every armed police or peace officers head...at least I make that assumption considering it's a 1985 U.S. Supreme Court decision that's binding on all U.S law enforcement.
It states that
"
Law enforcement officers pursuing an unarmed suspect may use deadly force to prevent escape only if the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."...that's from Wiki.

I'm sure it's taught at most police academies...especially during re-qualification.

[broncofan]

Makes sense that it should be. I knew the black letter rule but not where it came from. I also haven't read subsequent cases to know what set of facts it would apply to. Driving a car into a crowd? Waving a gun around while running from a cop? Seems likely. But I imagine they have to be a threat at the moment they are killed, not a pending one because of what they've done or are suspected of doing.

[broncofan]

I've got to admit Fred. I did not know that the standard was different for armed and unarmed persons. I would have just thought a person who is armed would be more likely to "pose a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others" but not automatically so.

[fred41]

Makes sense that it should be. I knew the black letter rule but not where it came from. I also haven't read subsequent cases to know what set of facts it would apply to. Driving a car into a crowd? Waving a gun around while running from a cop? Seems likely. But I imagine they have to be a threat at the moment they are killed, not a pending one because of what they've done or are suspected of doing.

driving a car into a crowd is a tough one...because even if the driver is shot..the car would still continue on...but 'waving' a gun around while running from a cop...I would say yes, as long as the shot wouldn't put anyone else at risk...but I think some 'pending' threats are okay too.
..they don't necessarily have to be a threat at only the moment they are killed. That's why, for example, you can use deadly physical force in cases such as Escape in the first degree and Arson.

[fred41]

Look, people have to realize , just based upon some of the laws quoted, it's a really difficult decision to make under extreme circumstances....and there are some differences in the law in the various state and law enforcement jobs.
Add to that, the ridiculous assumptions people make, that I assume , based upon their statements, have NEVER fired a handgun before.
Statements such as- why don't officers fire at hands or feet first? Really? Go to the range and fire a handgun for a few rounds...then look at statistics under stress and see how often people miss even when they shoot at center mass - often at a moving target. This ain't a day at the movies with Wyatt Earp...(who probably couldn't do it either).

...but then there are some cases where you just read it and say Whaaaattttt?!!!
so far Mr. Scott's case reads like that. Even if the officer thought Mr. Scott had gotten hold of the taser...or maybe he even shot the officer with it, but he was running and...you can only shoot it once...and.....so many things seem wrong here.

[martin48]

Sorry, I hadn't considered this possibility. Best not to take the risk. Being a black guy then you would absorb more electromagnetic radiation - so that's why they shot more blacks. Beginning to make sense now.




If you run away at near the speed of light your gain in kinetic energy could warp space-time around you and drag innocent bystanders into your gravitational wake endangering their lives...or not. Here in the U.S. of A., we rather shoot than take the risk. It's better, not to mention more fun, to shoot and kill one innocent man (especially if he's black) than risk letting him get away and never knowing whether he was innocent or not.

[martin48]

http://gawker.com/dad-calls-cops-on-son-to-teach-him-a-lesson-cops-shoot-1460159897

They just keep killing

[fred41]

http://gawker.com/dad-calls-cops-on-son-to-teach-him-a-lesson-cops-shoot-1460159897

They just keep killing

According to the article you quoted that happened 11/7/13, and though the shooting looks somewhat questionable from what you can tell on the video, the officer was cleared because this is what happened:
http://www.kcci.com/news/central-iowa/weve-got-shots-fired-hes-trying-ramming-us-again/22815706

it looks as if the city of Ames is negotiating a settlement according to this:http://www.kcci.com/news/family-of-man-shot-by-police-officer-files-wrongful-death-claim/32040132

[broncofan]

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2015/05/12/george-zimmerman-shooter-says-acted-in-self-defense/

I couldn't be bothered to look for the George Zimmerman thread. I know he's not a cop no matter how much he thinks he is. But he was in another violent confrontation. It looks like he previously threatened this man and he responded by trying to kill Zimmerman. I'm guessing the guy did not shoot at Zimmerman in self-defense as the law defines it (unless Zimmerman actually did wave his gun and it wasn't based on the previous threat), but here George is in another situation involving guns and threats. Just in case someone missed it…since the Martin trial, he's been accused of threatening two women and previously threatening the guy in the above article.

[yodajazz]

I thought this was another death by taser case, I was looking for but this another that happened February.

http://news.yahoo.com/death-florida-man-tased-police-deemed-homicide-200324421.html

[Stavros]

A police officer - I can't recall if he was from Baltimore or Arizona- with 30 odd years of experience was interviewed on Channel 4 News in the UK and made the point that there is a recruitment issue now with the US police and that in his view too many people who are not qualified are applying to join and being accepted by police services around the country. The problem is with the 'mental attitude' of the new recruits where the concept of 'public service' seems to clash with their own 'problem solving' initiatives...

[yodajazz]

I was having my car towed last night. After we went by a police vehicle with someone pulled over, we went on to talk about the police. He talked about an incident when he ran from the police when he was 17. But he must be 60, now, so were talking 40 years ago. He said an policeman stood on his knees, in an attempt to break them, saying that he would never run away from the police again. However another policeman inverned. Anyway the tow truck driver was white. So my point is that a certain brutal mentality has been going on maybe always. I have heard of the concept of police giving someone a 'rough ride', in the back of a police van, for extra punishment, as what may have been done with Freddie Gray. I could swear I saw this concept in some old movie, which would at least prove the idea was out there.

[Stavros]

Bleak, Yodajazz, and sounds all too true. Perhaps a man (indeed, a woman too) changes when he or she puts on a uniform?

[trish]

In the U.S. the animosity of police toward black men and women is not a new thing; and it continues on as is evidenced by the news making events of the present day. Several things, I think, have changed over the past few decades:
1. Carry laws make the job of the policeman on the beat more dangerous. Just a decade or so ago police organizations opposed carry.
2. Law and order politics has the effect of escalating the number of police and the armament of police forces. Larger forces require new hires.
3. New recruits often come from the ranks bullies who carried guns in their civilian lives and see their new job as a confirmation of their politics, their identity and their right to bully. I think this may in part account for the change in attitude of the police toward carry laws.
4. The persistent drive to reduce the role of government, eliminate social programs and the taxes required to support them, along with the Bush economic collapse of 2007 opened the way to civil forfeiture laws which the police (and the courts) use to to supplement their support in lieu of declining tax revenues. Ironically the drive to reduce government has the effect of empowering and encouraging the police to become more intrusive.
5. We now incarcerate, at great cost, a greater percentage of our population than any nation in the world. This is an indication of how much we value property more than freedom.

[martin48]

Just read this http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/01/black-americans-killed-by-police-analysis

Apologies for length.

Black Americans are more than twice as likely to be unarmed when killed during encounters with police as white people, according to a Guardian investigation (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database) which found 102 of 464 people killed so far this year in incidents with law enforcement officers were not carrying weapons.
An analysis of public records, local news reports and Guardian reporting found that 32% of black people killed by police in 2015 were unarmed, as were 25% of Hispanic and Latino people, compared with 15% of white people killed.
The findings emerged from a database filled by a five-month study of police fatalities in the US, which calculated that local and state police and federal law enforcement agencies are killing people at twice the rate calculated by the US government’s official public record of police homicides (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/18/police-killings-government-data-count). The database names five people whose names have not been publicly released.
The Guardian’s statistics include deaths after the police use of a Taser, deaths caused by police vehicles and deaths following altercations in police custody, as well as those killed when officers open fire. They reveal that 29% of those killed by police, or 135 people, were black. Sixty-seven, or 14%, were Hispanic/Latino, and 234, or 50%, were white. In total, 102 people who died during encounters with law enforcement in 2015 were unarmed.
The figures illustrate how disproportionately black Americans, who make up just 13% of the country’s total population (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html) according to census data, are killed by police. Of the 464 people counted by the Guardian, an overwhelming majority – 95% – were male, with just 5% female.
Steven Hawkins, the executive director Amnesty International USA, described the racial imbalance as “startling”. Hawkins said: “The disparity speaks to something that needs to be examined, to get to the bottom of why you’re twice as likely to be shot if you’re an unarmed black male.”
Relatives of unarmed people killed by police in high-profile incidents during the past year – including Michael Brown, Eric Garner, Tony Robinson and Walter Scott – described the Guardian project as a breakthrough in the national debate over the use of deadly force by law enforcement.
“Giving this kind of data to the public is a big thing,” said Erica Garner, whose father’s killing by police in New York City last year led to international protests. “Other incidents like murders and robberies are counted, so why not police-involved killings? With better records, we can look at what is happening and what might need to change.”
The initiative was also praised by a range of policing experts and by campaigners who are urging government authorities to make the official recording of fatalities mandatory for all 18,000 police departments and law enforcement agencies operating in the US.
“It’s troubling that we have no official data from the federal government,” said Laurie Robinson, the co-chair of Barack Obama’s task force on 21st-century policing. “I think it’s very helpful, in light of that fact, to have this kind of research undertaken.”
Beginning on Monday, the Guardian is publishing The Counted, a comprehensive interactive database monitoring all police killings in the US through 16 data points including age, location, gender, ethnicity, whether the person killed was armed and which policing agency was responsible.
The Counted logs the precise location of each fatal incident, providing what is the most detailed map of police killings ever published. California, America’s most populous state, has the highest total with 74 fatalities so far this year.
However, an analysis of location data shows that Oklahoma, where 22 people have died through encounters with law enforcement, is the state with the highest rate of fatal incidents per person in 2015, at one fatality per 175,000 people over five months.
Over the weekend, Nehemiah Fischer, a 35-year-old pastor, was shot dead by an Oklahoma state trooper after getting into a fight when told to evacuate his truck in rising flood waters south of Tulsa. Police have said Fischer had a firearm (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/31/oklahoma-pastor-nehemiah-fischer-trooper-shooting-flooding) but have not explained whether he was armed during the confrontation.
The database, which will combine Guardian reporting with verified crowdsourced information, has logged 464 police killings for the first five months of 2015. The US government’s record, which is run by the FBI, counted 461 “justifiable homicides” by law enforcement in all of 2013, the latest year for which official data is available.
The vast majority of deaths recorded – 408 – were caused by gunshot. Of the 27 deaths that occurred after a Taser was deployed by law enforcement, all but one involved an unarmed person.
On Sunday, Richard Davis, an unarmed black 50-year-old, died after being shocked with a Taser by police in Rochester, New York. Davis was said by authorities to have run from his truck towards officers with clenched fists after being told to put his hands up following a crash. Relatives said he was a veteran of the US marines.
The Guardian has also identified 14 officer-involved deaths following altercations in custody. The total includes Freddie Gray, the 25-year-old resident of Baltimore whose death from a broken neck sustained in a police van led to protests, rioting and the indictment of six city police officers (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/21/six-baltimore-police-officers-freddie-gray-indicted).
Another 12 people died following collisions with law enforcement vehicles. The family of Bernard Moore, who was 62, are calling for the criminal prosecution of an officer who fatally struck Moore with his squad car in Atlanta, allegedly while speeding without emergency lights or sirens on.
By logging each law enforcement agency involved in the 464 deaths, the Guardian can also now report that the Los Angeles police department, the country’s third largest local police department, has been involved in the highest number of deaths of any local department. This year, 10 people have died in encounters with LAPD officers, of whom five were unarmed.
The Oklahoma City police department and the Los Angeles sheriff’s office were both involved in five deaths, two individuals in both of these jurisdictions being unarmed.
High-profile cases in Los Angeles, like the death of unarmed Charly “Africa” Keunang, shot dead by LAPD officers on 1 March in the city’s homeless district of Skid Row (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/02/skid-row-police-homeless-shooting-worlds-collide), garnered national attention.
But cases like those of Sergio Navas, an unarmed Hispanic man shot dead by LAPD officers in the same month as Keunang, after police said he stole a vehicle and was chased down, have had less media scrutiny. Navas’s family have launched an excessive force lawsuit against the LAPD and accused them of a covering up the circumstances of the 35-year-old’s death.
The Guardian has also monitored whether mental health issues were identified, either by family members, friends or police following each fatal encounter. In total 26% of people killed by police exhibited some sort of mental illness, with at least 29 cases identified where the person killed was suicidal.
For example, Monique Deckard, a black woman with a long history of mental illness, was shot and killed by police officers in Anaheim, California, after she was accused of stabbing a woman at a laundromat and allegedly charging at officers. Her family had called police just hours before the attack, warning that they could not get in contact with her and that she might be trying to find a gun.
The average age of a person killed by police in 2015 was 37, but The Counted identifies a huge diversity in the ages of those killed.
The oldest, 87-year-old Louis Becker, was killed during a collision with a New York state trooper patrol car in upstate New York. Eighty-two-year-old Richard “Buddy” Weaver was killed by Oklahoma City police after he allegedly raised a machete at an officer who opened fire; neighbors later described Weaver as having schizophrenia.
The three youngest people identified were all 16 years old. A’donte Washington, a black American, was shot dead by Millbrook police officers in Alabama on 23 February during an alleged burglary after the teenager was described as pointing a weapon at arriving officers. His family have questioned the police narrative, while the city mayor described the shooting as “110% justified”.
A week earlier, on 14 February, Jason Hendrix, a white 16-year-old was shot dead in a gunfight by Baltimore County police after the teenager murdered his mother, father and sister in Corbin, Kentucky, and drove to Maryland, where he is reported to have opened fire on an officer after a car chase. Six returned fire and killed him.
A month later, on 19 March, black 16-year-old Kendre Alston was shot dead by a deputy of the Jacksonville sheriff’s office in Florida. Police claimed Alston fled from a stolen car and brandished a weapon at the pursuing official who then opened fire. Deneane Campbell, Alston’s mother, claimed in an interview two weeks later she had not been given any further details by police.
Some relatives of people killed by police said they had been unaware of the dearth of publicly available information on police-involved fatalities until their family became affected. Anthony Scott, whose brother Walter was shot dead in April by police officer Michael Slager (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/walter-scott-shooting) in North Charleston, South Carolina, said the lack of public information “came as a surprise”.
“I was not informed, I was not aware, I just had an idea these situations were happening in the United States,” Scott told the Guardian. “The public need to know what is happening and be made more informed. With them being more informed they would be able to react differently, in a positive way, to make changes, to make sure some of these things don’t happen again.”

[trish]

Thanks you Guardian, for doing the research that the Congress and the NRA has effectively blocked in the U.S.; and thank you Martin for making us aware of the report.


“Giving this kind of data to the public is a big thing,” said Erica Garner, whose father’s killing by police in New York City last year led to international protests. “Other incidents like murders and robberies are counted, so why not police-involved killings? With better records, we can look at what is happening and what might need to change.”
The initiative was also praised by a range of policing experts and by campaigners who are urging government authorities to make the official recording of fatalities mandatory for all 18,000 police departments and law enforcement agencies operating in the US.
“It’s troubling that we have no official data from the federal government,” said Laurie Robinson, the co-chair of Barack Obama’s task force on 21st-century policing. “I think it’s very helpful, in light of that fact, to have this kind of research undertaken.”

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/cdc-ban-gun-research-caused-lasting-damage/story?id=18909347

http://www.salon.com/2012/07/25/the_nras_war_on_gun_science/

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2012/12/gun_violence_research_nra_and_congress_blocked_gun _control_studies_at_cdc.html

[martin48]

You're my kind of girl, Trish



Thanks you Guardian, for doing the research that the Congress and the NRA has effectively blocked in the U.S.; and thank you Martin for making us aware of the report.

[buttslinger]

I value the input of the brothas and sistas here, and don't aim to hurt their feelings, but I think putting your own words in print is kind of like when the camera light goes on and you start to perform for the camera.
I am happy to trash my Caucasian grit redneck KKK cousins, why can't black folks trash their "snitches get stitches" home boys?
I am happy to voice my displeasure of that segment of the US population known as WHITE TRASH, how come when I trash that segment of the population known as N*GGERS, I'm a racist?

The Police should be allowed to do their job without being shot at or smashed up in a high speed chase. No law says you have to respect the Police. But there is a law that says you have to do what they tell you to do. Fight it in court if your civil rights are stomped on.

If you really want to enact change, you can't just ask for it, you have to make it happen. Freedom isn't free.
The USA doesn't put our undesirables in gas chambers, we put them on Indian Reservations, or give them minimum wage jobs so they can chase the carrot on the stick but never really get anywhere. The instances of gunning down young black males actually falls into the small percentage of "shit happens" type stuff. If you live in a neighborhood where co-operating with the po-lice is taboo, do you really expect any resect from the police, white or black? To me, it almost seems like when a black person becomes realistic, they lose their black street cred, or something, they turn into TOMs.

To make a long story short, black people must melt into a racist society to destroy racism. Good luck with that. You can be replaced by a Mexican!!!!

[martin48]

Well, I suppose he didn't actually shoot the 14 year old girl.

Sorry but you need to get a grip of this, America



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-33048176

[yodajazz]

I value the input of the brothas and sistas here, and don't aim to hurt their feelings, but I think putting your own words in print is kind of like when the camera light goes on and you start to perform for the camera.
I am happy to trash my Caucasian grit redneck KKK cousins, why can't black folks trash their "snitches get stitches" home boys?
I am happy to voice my displeasure of that segment of the US population known as WHITE TRASH, how come when I trash that segment of the population known as N*GGERS, I'm a racist?

The Police should be allowed to do their job without being shot at or smashed up in a high speed chase. No law says you have to respect the Police. But there is a law that says you have to do what they tell you to do. Fight it in court if your civil rights are stomped on.

If you really want to enact change, you can't just ask for it, you have to make it happen. Freedom isn't free.
The USA doesn't put our undesirables in gas chambers, we put them on Indian Reservations, or give them minimum wage jobs so they can chase the carrot on the stick but never really get anywhere. The instances of gunning down young black males actually falls into the small percentage of "shit happens" type stuff. If you live in a neighborhood where co-operating with the po-lice is taboo, do you really expect any resect from the police, white or black? To me, it almost seems like when a black person becomes realistic, they lose their black street cred, or something, they turn into TOMs.

To make a long story short, black people must melt into a racist society to destroy racism. Good luck with that. You can be replaced by a Mexican!!!!

You don't seem like a bad person, and I agree with you, to an extent. However, there are some larger social realities at work here. Police have become an occupying force, in poor communities, and the enforcement arm of racist tendencies. There are so many examples, but let's look at the incident in the previous post. Apparently a bunch of Black kids went to a pool party, in a predominantly White community. The police were called. One woman went out and insulted the teens told them to go back to their 'Section 8 housing'. Apparently a teen spoke back to her. The woman's actions could have led to an escalated anger incidents. Of course nothing at all was said to her, apparently. But, what was the duty of the police? Seems to me, that it should have been to clear the area. I don't understand why they were detaining and handcuffing Black teens for running away from the area? I didn't hear of any crimes being committed. And throwing the the 14 girl, by her hair, who had committed no crime, itself could have provoked a violent response, itself. Nowadays, they have the universal excuse, of suspecting drug activity. Guess what, a calm, well dressed person, obeying the law, fits certain drug courier profiles. It is not a crime to drive slowly, except when you drive through a poor neighborhood, that police define as a 'high crime area' the police consider that probable cause to stop you, and ask for ID. They might even ask to search your vehicle. In a community in Louisiana, a large Black man arrested for sagging his pants, was tasered to death in custody, a couple of years ago. Recently, there was an incident of the police throwing a 9 month pregnant woman down on her stomach, for refusing to give her name, which was her legal right, after arguing with a White woman over a parking space. Black are even being beat down in the womb! Seems to me, they could have gotten her vehicle plates, since she was driving. If she had broken any law, it would have been covered by a fine, anyway. I remember this one comedy show episode years ago, where the theme was, how hormonal this late pregnancy woman was. She did end up in a jail cell, with two other women who were in their late pregnancy stages. It was funny then.

[yodajazz]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/06/08/swat-team-raids-family-home-and-kills-their-dog-over-an-unpaid-utility-bill-images/

This goes beyond race. It's war on the poor. According to the article, the home owner was arrested, but he was only charged with property code violations.

[buttslinger]

You don't seem like a bad person, and I agree with you, to an extent....
I've been arrested a few times, so I guess I am a bad person, to an extent, since ONYOURKNEES and his friends have scampered off, it's up to me to pick up the slack and keep it fair and balanced. I think my point is in order to solve the problem, you must lay some blame for the American slums and ghettoes on the .....black people... but as soon as you do that you are racist, so what the fuck, man?
You have to lay some of the blame on the black guy who scuffles with a cop, or resists arrest, or the large group of blacks that ignore police commands, or else you end up characterizing blacks as adult children who aren't responsible for their actions because whitey broke them.
TO AN EXTENT, anyway.
The majority of blacks have bought into the white man notion that you work a 40 hour week no matter how crappy it is and you pay your taxes. There is no law that says you have to work, but there might as well be. Doot, doo doo do doot dooooo...Livin' in the USA ♫

[yodajazz]

It's the classic argument of individual responsibility, vs the society's responsibility, to treat individuals fairly, with equal rights for all. You cannot have a society with a caste system, and claim that, all the individuals of the caste are only responsible for their lives. And along with this, ignore the structure of the greater society. It is always true that people are responsible for their own behavior. And it is alway true that society should treat individuals fairly, especially when you have granted them full constitutional rights, already. Black America has been treated as the enemy, in something called "The war on drugs", has resulted in them being the most incarcerated population, in the developed world, or maybe the planet. At the very least, there is a process called 'selective enforcement', that alters outcomes of classes of people. Right now, I'm reading a book called, "The New Jim Crow", by Michelle Alexander. There are lots of statistics, that show significant differences in treatment of people (races).

[martin48]

......

[trish]

If being arrested meant being slammed around in the back of a police van until your bones were broken, or you're rendered unconscious or dead, would you just maybe have an inclination to "resist" arrest? Wouldn't you at least insist on knowing the reason for your arrest before you duck your head and enter the van? You have the right to know.
And no...there is no law that a citizen has to do everything a policeman commands him to do. (That doesn't even apply to soldiers anymore...ever since Nuremberg.) You should never transgress upon human decency nor your own dignity no matter what the mas'er says. That being said, always keep in mind the talk your Mom and Dad had with you about being polite, reasonable, not making any sudden moves and keeping your hands visible at all times.

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/4duydk/assault-swim---progress-in-community-policing

[buttslinger]

Painting all blacks as thugs, career criminals, stupid, liars, ......that's called racism. But these ARE the people that the police have to deal with time after time. Cheering when OJ gets away with murder, awarding criminals with million dollar lawsuits because they run away from the police, this is not the way to eliminate racism.
If I were black, I would be pissed off about racial profiling, for sure. But I would not protest by stealing a car, or not paying my child support, or breaking into someone else's pool to have a party with my friends.

EVERY society is a caste system, to some extent. Whites are 70% of America, western European. There are now more Hispanics than Blacks, but we're not changing immigration laws to make illegal immigrants happy.

Behind the scenes there is a struggle between Obama and Employers over what minimum wage means. The employers want minimum wage to mean the cheapest possible pay they can get away with. Obama wants minimum wage to mean health insurance, dignity, pride.
The country would have actually rebounded faster if Obama had caved and let employers hire employees on their terms. But then we would go right back to the Bush years, and all the stuff that was happening behind the scenes then.

How much money will that bodacious big tittied little girl get from being thrown to the ground by a crazy white cop who blew a gasket? Enough to end racism? Should we triple the pay of the police so we can get some Harvard Educated lawyers in uniform to drive around and chase uppity jigs at pool partys?

As long as blacks do not cooperate with the police, and will not police themselves, ...uh, there's going to be a problem.

[trish]

Yes mas'ser. Whatever you say. We'll stay out of "your" pool even though we bought a season membership pass. But there's going to be a problem as long as bully cops strong-arm, shoot and kill some citizens and not others, basing their "whim" on their perception of race and privilege. Why can you not recognize that no amount of talking back or lingering is an excuse for abusive behavior on the part of the police.

BTW: There is no causative link between the ACA and the rate of employment. Wall Street had a record recovery for years now. The Bush economic collapse gave corporations the excuse to get rid of employers and either ship those jobs overseas or automate them. They aren't coming back anytime soon.

[buttslinger]

I don't think a white person can understand racism, and I don't think white people can heal the anger black people hold for them. So I guess the beat goes on. Wishing the cops would be nice is like wishing criminals would be nice.

In Court, you are presumed innocent. But on the street ...if you don't think you're presumed guilty until proven otherwise, you're a starry eyed idiot. The cops own the streets.

[wearboots4me]

Maybe I missed something on the video, but it seemed like the police had it under control peacefully until Officer Casebolt showed up doing his acrobatics and manhandling the girl. The guy's a loose cannon, and that community is safer without him.

[trish]

Wishing the cops would be nice is like wishing criminals would be nice.Nice? I just want the police to act lawfully: and perhaps with reason and respect.

[yodajazz]

Painting all blacks as thugs, career criminals, stupid, liars, ......that's called racism. But these ARE the people that the police have to deal with time after time. Cheering when OJ gets away with murder, awarding criminals with million dollar lawsuits because they run away from the police, this is not the way to eliminate racism.
If I were black, I would be pissed off about racial profiling, for sure. But I would not protest by stealing a car, or not paying my child support, or breaking into someone else's pool to have a party with my friends.

EVERY society is a caste system, to some extent. Whites are 70% of America, western European. There are now more Hispanics than Blacks, but we're not changing immigration laws to make illegal immigrants happy.

Behind the scenes there is a struggle between Obama and Employers over what minimum wage means. The employers want minimum wage to mean the cheapest possible pay they can get away with. Obama wants minimum wage to mean health insurance, dignity, pride.
The country would have actually rebounded faster if Obama had caved and let employers hire employees on their terms. But then we would go right back to the Bush years, and all the stuff that was happening behind the scenes then.

How much money will that bodacious big tittied little girl get from being thrown to the ground by a crazy white cop who blew a gasket? Enough to end racism? Should we triple the pay of the police so we can get some Harvard Educated lawyers in uniform to drive around and chase uppity jigs at pool partys?

As long as blacks do not cooperate with the police, and will not police themselves, ...uh, there's going to be a problem.

I didn't believe that OJ committed murder, at the time of the trial. His case was unprecedented, and still is. Not only was he a sports hero, he was also in commercial, tv, and movies. If you laughed along with him in the "Naked Gun" movie series, like me, and millions of others, it was hard to believe that person was capable of involvement in a murder plot. I still remember the name of his character in the movie series, 'Nordberg'. For most Blacks, supporting OJ was not because we wanted a man to get away with murder. We believed his story as well as the jury.

A caste system is deeper than a class system. That implies that the society is targeting certain groups of people, to intentionally exclude them from things available to others. Laws, and selective enforcement of them are major tools, in caste systems. Removing race as a factor, I think a good example would be the conflict between protestants and catholics in Northern Ireland. Here's an example here; some communities have made sagging pants, a crime subject to arrest, I believe. But nowhere is a crime for women to wear low rise jeans. And sometimes their butt crack in visible in those pants. I saw a white woman yesterday, with her crack visible. Sagging pants, is a poor fashion choice, but a crime? You might ask why would a young man wear a style that might give him negative attention? I can draw from my own youth, long ago. I was jumped twice in short period. Then I went out and bought a jean suit, like the Black Panthers wore. After that, people were crossing to the other side of the street when they saw me coming, even some people my own age! From hearing about the recent experiences of my great nephews, things haven't change that much, just the styles.

[buttslinger]

Every body makes good points and sometimes opposing sides can both be right depending which hat you're wearing, but, even focusing on one topic like police shooting innocent civilians....cross examination is going to prove nobody here has a real answer to the problem without spending tons of money we don't have. If you pressure police too much they're going to crack and start spending their days poolside with the kids. Or just become walking talking burn-outs, mailing it in til their pension comes up. There's a reason cops retire after twenty years, there's a reason they become corrupt, and right or wrong there's a reason they are race profilers. The cops aren't really paid to fix people's lives, they fix immediate problems.

[martin48]

The number of people killed by law enforcement in the US this year has reached 1,000 after officers in Oakland, shot dead a man who allegedly pointed a replica gun at them.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/16/the-counted-killed-by-police-1000

[martin48]

I just record!

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/24/laquan-mcdonald-police-killing-chicago-video-released

[martin48]

Chicago police officer sues victim's family over shooting
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35519757

New low?

[trish]

Chicago police officer sues victim's family over shooting


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35519757

New low?
What a jerk. Everybody knows you don't sue the perp. He probably doesn't have ten million dollars: you sue your employer (in this case the Chicago police department) for stressful working conditions.

[fred41]

I just record
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/shooter-killed-virg-state-trooper-identified-article-1.2585047