Six million Jews

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Discuss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dda-0Q_XUhk

[broncofan]

The train to crazytown always stops in Berlin:tongue:

[trish]

Discuss.Oh well, I guess that means the holocaust never happened, Belgian was never trampled, Paris never overrun, London never bombed and Pearl Harbor was just an unfortunate misunderstanding. All those mass graves at Auschwitz and other extermination camps were fakes, and all those pograms that are reported and documented by European historians from the Medieval Ages through the 20th Century are just propaganda. It must be the product of a vast conspiracy being carried out through the centuries by a Cabal of six million Jews. LOOK OUT–THERE'S ONE BEHIND YOU RIGHT NOW!!! Every man for himself––it's a post Y2K world!!

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Hi everyone,


Hmm. I've found it interesting that the first newspaper is dated June 6, 1915.

June is the 6th month
and on the 6th day, and
19......1+5 =. 6.

Hey, i'm just pointing something out that caught my eye.





"Don't http://www.animationplayhouse.com/misc1-21.gif the messenger".



Babe,
xoxo

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Hi everyone,

It would to a great shame to see such an interesting topic get locked or deleted simply because someone cries out, "This is ANTISEMITISM!!...because it's really not!
Of course, the "Jewish" people, in here, won't like it.

So, i would like to post an article using Biblical facts from the Torah which proves that this thread is not antisemitic.
http://www.ensignmessage.com/Antisemitism.html
I will sum it up, briefly, by saying, all "Jews" are not all descendants of the Shem bloodline, the Semites. This article in the link will prove that fact.

In closing to MY text, here, i want to say that i respect ALL PEOPLE from ALL religions.
I am not Anti-Semitic or Anti-Jew, or anti-anybody, except Anti-Terrorist from ANY religion.

So, if any Jewish people from the Ashkenazim or any other bloodline (who are historically not Semitic, whatsoever), begin crying out, "ANTISEMITISM", in response to this thread, and i am so sure that some have already reported it because they THINK that JUST BECAUSE they are "Jewish" that it makes them descendant of Shem. Not so!

AND i would like to add that i "meet" a good deal of Ashkenazim gentlemen.

Sorry to burst any bubbles, here, but facts are facts.

Besides, i respectfully doubt that ANY descendants of Shem would, actually, be taking ANY part in a site such as a transsexual prostitution site - of all places, good God - a modern-day, virtual Sodom and Gomorrah.

I respectfully ask all the "Jewish" people in here, who i am certain are nice people, not to become angry for history being as it is.
As for me, i like you. I have NOTHING against Jewish people.
And posting this thread is in no way a demonstration of disrespect towards there Jewish people.

From what the Toroh says, the real Shemites were a black-skinned race.
Simply converting to Judaism does not make people Shemites. That would be a silly as me (a goy) converting to Judaism, learning Hebrew, and then attending all your Jewish celebrations and gatherings as an equal to you.



Respectfully yours,
Babe,
xoxo

P.S.
Just to illustrate how i feel about Jewish gentlemen so there is no misunderstanding the meaning on this thread and this post.


Jewish gentleman. --->http://www.animated-gifs.eu/xxx-smilies/0081.gif <-- Me.





Jewish gentleman. http://www.animationplayhouse.com/down.gif
.......................................http://www.animated-gifs.eu/xxx-smilies/0142.gif
.........................................http://www.empireonline.com/forum/image/asc.gif
........................................Me.

Now, pull down your pants.





"ANTISEMITISM: WHAT IT REALLY IS!
By: Author Unknown

ANTI-SEMITISM - that's a "dirty" word today. Anyone who indulges in it is a terrible person! It's a word to stop all criticism of a certain group. One must never be "Anti-Semitic": One can talk about a variety of subjects (in fact all subjects), but one must never talk against the "Semites," whoever they are! But here's a strange thing: no one really knows what "Anti-Semitism" is. Do you know? Well, let's look at the word.

Let's take the word "Anti." There's not much doubt about that word, it means "opposed to" or "against." One could be "Anti-pornography," which means that one is against pornography. One could be "Anti-abortion," which means that one is against abortion. "Anti-America" means to be against our country America. : We can all agree that "Anti" means "against". But "Semitism" is a different matter. Let's examine it.

"Semitism" comes from the name of a character in the Bible, whose name was Shem. If you will remember, Noah had three sons who were named Ham, Shem and Japheth. Those who came from Ham were called "Hamites," those who came from Shem were called "Shemites," or "Semites," and those who were descended from Japheth were called "Japhethites." Therefore, anyone who is against the descendants of Shem, would be "Anti-Semitic". Is that so? Well, let's
follow it out a little further.

A great-grandson of Shem was born and was named Eber, or Heber. You will find that in Genesis 11:14. Heber had descendants who were called "Hebrews," and his most notable descendant was a man named Abraham, who is called a "Hebrew." (Genesis 14:13) The descendants of Abram (or Abraham) were called Hebrews, especially when the Children of Israel were in Egypt, and the Egyptians called them by. that name, "Hebrews." Remember, all the descendants of Abraham were, and are, Hebrews.

Abraham had two sons. The first-born son was named Ishmael. His mother was Hagar, an Egyptian. Because Ishmael was not the son of Abraham's wife, he was not given the blessings, which were promised to Abraham, but was to head up a different race of people. The Arabs of today are the descendants of Ishmael. The Arabs are a Hebrew people, because they came from Abraham, who was a Hebrew. The Arabs are also a Semitic people because they came from Shem, the son of Noah. As the Arabs are Semitic, then, anyone who is against the Arabs are "Anti-Semitic."

So, if the Jews today are fighting the Arabs, the Jews are "Anti-Semitic," because the Arabs are Semites. Therefore, if the Jews are against the Arabs they are "Anti-Semitic" and should be charged with "Anti-Sernitism." Abraham's other son was Isaac, and so Isaac was a Hebrew, because Abraham was, and he was a Semite, because he was descended from Shem. Therefore all the descendants of Isaac were Hebrews and Semites. All of Jacob's sons are Semites. All are Sak-son's or Saxons!

Isaac had twin sons. One was named Esau, and the other, Jacob. Like their father, they were both Hebrews and Semites, as would be all of their descendants. Later his name was changed to Edom. Isaac's other son was named Jacob, which means a "supplanter," because when the twins were born, Jacob grabbed his brother's heel and tried to be born first. When Jacob grew up and married, he had twelve sons, and after an experience with the Lord, Jacob's name was changed to Israel and his twelve sons were called, "The Children of Israel." Because Jacob was their father, these twelve sons were Israelites and Semites. So today, wherever the descendants of these twelve sons are, they are Hebrew, Semites and Israelites.

The twelve sons of Jacob-Israel developed into a strong kingdom, but after the death of Solomon, was divided into the ten-tribed, "House of Israel," and the two-tribed (Judah and Benjamin) "House of Judah." In 721 B.C., the House of Israel with 4/5 of the House of Judah were carried into Assyrian captivity. In 586 B.C. King Nebuchadnezzar took the balance of Judah, with Benjamin, into Babylonian captivity.

After a period of 70 years, the House of Judah came back to the "Land" under Ezra and Nehemiah, and were known as "Jews." When they came back, they intermarried with the "people of the land," who were Edomites, Hittites, Canaanites, etc., in disobedience to the commandments of God, Who forbade mixed
marriages. This caused Ezra great distress, and he called upon them to repent. (Ezra 9: 1,2)

These "Jews" who came back from Babylon had not only married the "people of the land," but also brought back with them from Babylon, the religion of Babylon, which is contained in the "Babylonian Talmud." These were called the "traditions" and were the accumulated writings of the rabbis and other Jewish leaders. These "Jews" were in the land when Jesus came, and disputed with Him on spiritual and moral questions. These "Jews" were partly "Israel" and
partly "Esau" because of their intermarriages. In Jesus' time, the ruler was Herod who was an Edomite, or from Esau. Esau had intermarried with the Canaanites, and so the "Jews" were in reality a "mixed race." Also, in the time of Esther:

"Many people of the land (of Persia) became Jews, for fear of the Jews." (Esther 8:17)

The Tribe of Benjamin who also came back with Judah, settled in Galilee, and became known as the Galileans. They were Israelites, Hebrews, and Semites. When Jerusalem was besieged, they escaped, wandered across Europe, and were known as the "Normans," finally entering into the Isles in 1066 at the Battle of Hastings. The Normans, therefore, are Semitic, Hebrews, and are lost Israelites!

Because of their rejection of Christ, the Jews were scattered after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and have wandered from one country to another, many times being driven out of countries due to their way of life, and their attempts to control the countries. As the Arabs have opposed the Jews, the Arabs could not be classed a "Anti-Semitic" because they are Semites; instead they could be called, "Anti-Jewish", because they are against the Jews. They are not against all of the
other descendants of Shem! As the Anglo-Saxon-Scandinavian and kindred people are the descendants of the lost Tribes of Israel, they could not be called "Anti-Semitic," because they (or we) are Semites, through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob-Israel and their descendants.

Remember, the Arabs and kindred people are Semitic; the people of Northern Europe who are Anglo-Saxons or kindred people are Semites; the founding fathers of the United States, and the Caucasian people of our nation are Semitic, and therefore cannot be accused of being "Anti-Semitic." Those opposed to the "Jews," should be called, "Anti-Jewish," not "Anti-Semitic."

After being driven out of Asia, the Khazars, and Turko-Mongoiian people settled north of the Caspian Sea. Having a spoken language, but not a written one and no religion, in 740 A.D., the Khazars adopted the Jewish religion. These Khazars were the descendants of Japheth, the son of Noah, from their ancestor Ashkenaz, who was a grandson of Japheth. (Genesis 10:1-3) The Khazars were later to be known as "Ashkenazim Jews," and later settled in Poland and Western Russia. They adopted the Hebrew characters for their language, which is known today as "Yiddish." Koestler, a Jewish historian, tells in his book, The Thirteenth Tribe, about the Khazars becoming Jews. No where does he state that the Ashkenazim Jews are descendants of Israel.

The Jews today, who protest the loudest about "Anti-Semitism," are not even Semites themselves, but are "Japhethites." Today, about 90% of the Jews are in reality "Ashkenazim (Khazar) Jews," and the people who make up the nation of "Israel," are really the Ashkenazim-Khazar Jews! The people who are being accused of "Anti-Semitism," like the Arabs, and the Anglo-Saxon-Israel people are the real "Semites."

Very few of the present day Jews follow the Old Testament teachings, but rather follow the Babylonian Talmud. "Anti-Semitism" is the cry that the Jews raise today in order to stop people from investigating the Jewish incursion into the affairs of nations. This historical essay, might be considered "Anti-Semitic" by some groups, but is it? Let's make a stand for truth! Truth helps to bring understanding and reconciliation between honest people and people of good faith."

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[trish]

Shem and I share a common ancestor. Anything you've got against Shem, you got against me. Antisemitism never had any real basis in fact, so why would one be surprised to learn that it never had much to do with actual genealogical trees?

[trish]

Edited: Shem and I share a common ancestor. Anything you've got against Shem, you got against me. Antisemitism (that is the 'reasons' anti-Semites give to justify their prejudices) never had any real basis in fact, so why would one be surprised to learn that it never had much to do with actual genealogical trees?

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Hi everyone,

I forgot to re-enter this first link as that is what this thread is about.

I only put the Anti-Semite article here so no one could say that this thread is antisemitic in nature.


Again, the topic of discussion, here, is concerning the newspapers in the first link.

If people choose to argue with me over the definition of antisemitism article, i will not participate in that sort of behavior.

As matter of fact, i was not going to take part in this thread but i didn't want it to be called Antisemitic and then shut down.

And Shemite = semite.

Picking apart my words to make them seem Antisemitic, is wrong. I just wanted to clear that up.


Babe,
xoxo

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Discuss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dda-0Q_XUhk


I'll simply watch from the sidelines

[trish]

If you claim this thread is not antisemitic, then you're effectively taking a stand you refuse to defend. Why should you be allowed to start a controversy and then sit on the sidelines and watch? That seems a bit perverse...not that I'm being judgmental or casting aspersions. Please leave me out of any reply. I'm not arguing, I'm just saying...that's all.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

hi trish,

with all due respect, i posted the link to describe what i firmly believe in. There is no reason to discuss so people can pick apart my words and twist them around just for the sake of discussion. I've seen that happen several times in here.

Now with all due respect to you, again, this thread is not about antisemitism and i have already explained that. Why beat the dead horse?
I've said everything i wanted to say on that matter.

The discussion is about the newspaper articles in the first video.

babe,
http://www.merc.ca/vbulletin/images/smilies/lips.gif xoxo


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[fred41]

It's interesting that even with all the evidence, it's very hard for some people to believe that an enormous amount of people of a particular ethnicity or religious affiliation (whichever way one wants to go on this) were willfully exterminated...
...but those same people have no problem whatsoever in believing in aliens from Venus named Thor, based on a picture of a man with a large jaw.

[fred41]

Dahlia's Quote:
Hmm. I've found it interesting that the first newspaper is dated June 6, 1915.

June is the 6th month
and on the 6th day, and
19......1+5 =. 6.

Hey, i'm just pointing something out that caught my eye.

"Don't the messenger".


Don't be coy...that didn't catch your eye...you wouldn't notice something like that unless it was pointed out to you...and it was, of course.

[trish]

Just because a claim is repeated in the paper doesn’t make it true. It doesn’t make it untrue either. The question of exact numbers aside, there is independent evidence that antisemitism was rampant in the Russia, Europe and elsewhere in 1915, pogroms were launched against a multitude of Jewish ghettos and millions of Jews were expelled from the Russian Empire. To say the pogroms of 1915 and the Medieval Ages are of one piece, perhaps itself verges on conspiracy theory. But to say that Christians of every era have had a tendency to react violently against non-Christian elements within their societies (and that this was especially the case in early 20th century Europe) is not an exaggeration. There’s more to history than what you read in the papers and what you watch on YouTube. For starters try...

http://www.litvaksig.org/index.php/litvaksig-online-journal/the-expulsion-of-the-jews-from-lithuania-in-the-spring-of-1915
Don’t stop with the article, check the seventy five references listed at the bottom of the article.

I’m not claiming this thread is racist, but the OP’s embedded YouTube certainly is, bizarre definitions notwithstanding.

[broncofan]

There are a few things worth clearing up before I leave Dahlia to her delusions. Anti-semitism is commonly understood to mean hatred of Jews. This is the accepted definition of anti-semitism in both Oxford dictionary and Merriam Webster. It doesn't matter whether all Jews are semites according to a geneological study or whether all semites are Jews. The failure of either condition would only prove that Jew-Hatred is a more literal word.

When someone claims they cannot be an anti-semite because not all semites are Jews they are effectively admitting they harbor prejudice towards Jews but are quibbling over the proper terminology. Someone might argue that Dahlia is prejudiced against Jewish people and according to the most reputable compilers of English words and their definitions qualifies as an anti-semite.

A couple of things to clear up: I did not report your post. The dangerous thing about a lot of anti-semitic propaganda is that it is very seductive when it's effectively cobbled together. Nobody with a neo-cortex would be convinced by anything you've said, partly because your previous posts have deprived you of any credibility and partly because the evidence you offer in support of your suggestions is so indirect and weak.

So what that you can come up with three sixes? So some date related to the Jewish history equals the mark of satan? If you were a smart Holocaust denier you would put aside anything kooky like this. Rudolf Hess used to tell other Nazis not to read Der Sturmer because it would make them seem ridiculous when they tried to spread anti-semitic lies.

[broncofan]

Another thing to point out is that I don't know of any Holocaust historian who ever said the exact number of Jews killed during the Holocaust was six million. There were a number of studies done in the decades following the Holocaust and the numbers of Jews who perished was estimated to be between 5 and 7 million. For instance, Raul Hilberg I believe estimated that 5.1 million were killed, whereas Yehuda Bauer had a higher number.

It is not Holocaust denial for someone to disagree over exact figures. It is Holocaust denial to deny the substance of what happened; that there was a plan to exterminate Jews that was carried out in both death camps and on the Eastern front by the Einstatzgruppen (note: of course denial can sometimes manifest itself when someone proffers impossibly low casualty figures).

The following are examples of Holocaust denial I've seen:

There are those who claim that there was no final solution; that the extermination of the Jews was never discussed at the Wansee Conference. There are some who claim that the only Jewish people who died during the war died of Typhoid and they were put in de-lousing chambers rather than gas chambers. These same people claim that it was a matter of a few hundred thousand perishing and that the numbers were in the range of ordinary casualty of war figures.

But the number six million is typically the fixation of Holocaust deniers who claim it is an article of faith that nobody can deviate from. Someone can deviate from that figure if they have a more appropriate and scientifically sound methodology for estimating casualty figures.

But it is kind of absurd to try to refute the Holocaust based on the fact that the figure six million was used in a periodical in 1915 (and therefore must have been a lie floating in the collective consciousness of Jewish people for several decades). The figure of six million is only an estimate and to most educated people does not have any special meaning.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Discuss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dda-0Q_XUhk


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[trish]

Discuss.
Done. Read above discussion.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

It's interesting that even with all the evidence, it's very hard for some people to believe that an enormous amount of people of a particular ethnicity or religious affiliation (whichever way one wants to go on this) were willfully exterminated...
...but those same people have no problem whatsoever in believing in aliens from Venus named Thor, based on a picture of a man with a large jaw.

Hey freddy,

You don't mind if i call you freedy, eh?
It's just that, once, i owned a little grey mouse, to whom i gave the name, "Freddy the Freeloader", and you really remind me of him so much.
Only thing is, is that he did cute things, unlike you in this thread and most responses you make to my posts.
He looked, kind of, like this mouse...

http://www.livepencil.com/images/animals/mouse.gif

...which is why he reminds me of you.

So pathetic i think your are to try to say that i am a Holocaust denier when i said nothing of the sort.
And rude, too.
This is my first unpleasant post to a forum member in a very long time, you schmuck!

Babe,
Smudge! Smudge!


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[broncofan]

Come on Dahlia. You have to be responsible for your own actions. You can't post a newspaper of some slow-witted guy finding the number six million in newspapers without people knowing what you're doing. The suggestion was that the number six million was on the minds of some cabal of Jews so that they could put it to service 30+ years later when analyzing casualty figures from the Holocaust. The reason I suggest a cabal is because I don't think the video is saying that the author of the article later went on to become a Holocaust scholar. So a pack of Jews meeting in back rooms must have been carrying on his work for him.

Fred was just saying that your skepticism over the Holocaust is not matched by skepticism over the existence of extra-terrestrial life.

The other thing I kind of resent is that you keep insinuating that people want to shut your view down. There is no way to change that impression. You claim you have been reported when you haven't been...you claim your views have been distorted....you repeatedly tell us to discuss the topic as though that's not what we're doing. What is it you hoped to accomplish with this thread?

[Odelay]

What always amazes me is how sensitive and thin skinned the deniers and their supporters are. Perhaps we should call them Armchair Historians, and then they won't have such hurt feelings.

The Israel-Palestine issue has such huge ramifications for the entire world. It's sad that a bunch of hobbyists undermine real arguments being made against current Israeli policy.

[trish]

...i will not/can not, engage in any sort of insult-fest, it's just not my type of activity. I just don't respond to that type of....bad attitude.
...
I am not here to fight or argue or even debate if it's heated.
...
If i don't like things that others have written, i will not respond negatively.
I will never feel as though i have the right to insult you or your beliefs.
...
Babe, beliefs are exactly what we hold up for criticism. You're lucky. You have a few people here who are still actually willing to waste x minutes to view a video that you posted and are willing to discuss it and it's larger context. If you don't like your deeply held beliefs regarding the apparent appearance of Hebraic numerology in old newspapers to be criticized and possibly mocked, then why put it out there? That's what discussion looks like. Here's what discussion doesn't look like:


Hey freddy,

You don't mind if i call you freedy, eh?
It's just that, once, i owned a little grey mouse, to whom i gave the name, "Freddy the Freeloader", and you really remind me of him so much.
Only thing is, is that he did cute things, unlike you in this thread and most responses you make to my posts.
He looked, kind of, like this mouse...
...which is why he reminds me of you.

So pathetic i think your are to try to say that i am a Holocaust denier when i said nothing of the sort.
And rude, too.
This is my first unpleasant post to a forum member in a very long time, you schmuck!

Babe,
Smudge! Smudge!


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[trish]

I'm getting mixes signals, but it seems WesJohnson has something to say. Go ahead Wes.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Babe, beliefs are exactly what we hold up for criticism. You're lucky. You have a few people here who are still actually willing to waste x minutes to view a video that you posted and are willing to discuss it and it's larger context. If you don't like your deeply held beliefs regarding the apparent appearance of Hebraic numerology in old newspapers to be criticized and possibly mocked, then why put it out there? That's what discussion looks like. Here's what discussion doesn't look like:

Hi trish,

Thank you for quoting that part of my introduction thread.
I really WAS expecting for that part to be quoted by some one and posted in this thread, here, to try to make me look like a phony or a liar.

However, when i am called an anti-Semite, i don't stay quiet.

When i am accused of hate speech, i tend to speak up to clarify who and what i am.

As far as i am concerned, my response to freddie was srill a respectful post for the most part. It is possible to tell someone off and still be within the realm of good manners.
I don't think i went overboard, whatsoever.
No matter how angry or insulted, i am, i like to l think i am at leas, polite to a certain degree.

Being called that nasty word, anti-Semite, is enough to seriously cause trouble for someone who is really innocent and undeserving of the accusation.
He was acting like a schmuck by saying that.

He does remind me of my pet mouse from my youth, Freddie the Freeloader.
There are much worse things i could have screamed at him.
Anyway, i am always concerned with how people view me, which is something many people don't seem to care too much about in forums like these when they drop Eff bombs on people and calling them nasty names, like ...oh, here's one...anti-Semite. Even hitting at it is VILE.

I've been told to eff off by a mod; i've been called names like Airhead; had to read how someone wants to garb me by my neck through the screen and shake it until i stop kicking (AND, i will add that the person referred to me as an "it"); i've been called a troll and i have said not a single word on the board.
But when some obvious dim wit troll accuses me of anti-Semitism or of being a Holocaust denier just because he doesn't like what newspapers from a century ago say, i speak up, yea.

As far as the 666 thing goes, it was just something i noticed off the cuff.
You know...i do try to learn about all this Zionism-talk and the State of Israel stuff as i am interested in all that conspiracy theory stuff, as i have already stated in a previous thread of mine.

However, i did not, at all, respond to freddie's 666 response.
If he thinks someone pointed THAT out, and that is how i saw it, then, fine, that's his opinion and he is entitled to his opinions - so long as people do not cross the line into realm of criminal behavior by calling someone a Holocaust denier or pedophile or whatever.
I had only responded to his trolling behavior when he wrote what he commented on how i could ignore all the evidence of millions murdered, and yet, believe in an alien. When i never once said any of that.
So, i hope you see my issue with freddie's behaviour.

Even bronco has a response coming soon for tagging along with Freddie's bad behavior.

I never want to argue, and i am sure no one believes that because people like to argue, and many seem to have nothing better to do. And many people come to forums JUST for the fights. And i see who stars them guys like freedie and bronco because they can;t handle historical truths.

Bronco has been against me for a while, ever since the thread about "Why do white porn stars have the right to use the 'N' word", when i discovered and posted that it was the Spanish Jews who started the Atlantic slave trade which, to this day, causes all black people to despise and accuse all whites for doing. Freddie and bronco wee right there with the snide remarks and insults which got the thread locked.
And now, bronco is here doing the darn thing, trying to use his "special appearance' to get this thread locked up, too. with his wordiness.

I can see clearly now, and i can see all obstacle in my way...(wait a sec, that sounds familiar).


Babe,
xoxo

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Good morning bronco, (well it was morning when i began writing this)

Look sir, i think you are trying to shut the thread down with comments like that. You seem to think you can read my mind and freddie's mind. BUT you CAN'T.
So, please, stop acting like the Amazing Kreskin, i think you are only embarrassing yourself by doing that.
I think you also like to defend other peoples' rude comments. What gives? How many IDs do you possess in here!

I think you, like freddie, enjoy constantly put words in my mouth to make me appear to others as only you see me.
I say something is blue and you'll call me a liar saying i really meant to say black, by using a whole lot of clever mumbo jumbo to try to back your accusations against me.

I asked people to discuss the newspaper articles in the video so that i might understand what is going on, and i think ALL you can primarily focus on is whether or not i am antisemitic when i have clearly stated I AM NOT so many times. But yet, i think you're unrelenting in your pursuit to convince.
I think your responses are sometimes a mixture of good and bad comments all designed to confuse the readers regarding situations like this - and i think your words focus on the bad more than the good in situations like this.
It's a clever way to manipulate a topic. I think you must have been a been a prosecution lawyer in your youth.

Responsible for my actions? Huh?
I've only posted a video which shows 10 newspapers which mention the figure of 6 million Jewish souls being persecuted BEFORE Hitler even came in to power.

Then i posted an article explaining the meaning of antisemitism so i COULD NOT be accused of antisemitic behavior.
And in view of all of that, you now take part in freddie's stupid, unfounded assumption that i am a Holocaust denier - i think that makes you a schumck, also, in my opinion.

And then you say that i'm dreaming up this idea that you want this thread down shut down? My gosh, i think you are very clever...in a sneaky way.

I was hoping i could watch and learn how people would discuss the newspaper articles, so that I COULD understand what it all means; why these articles were printed before Hitler came to power; why the 6 million figure has been used over and over, even in 2015.
And now, i find myself defending myself against antisemitism accusations.
Talk about twisting words around, i am not the one doing that - friend.

Why not let others have a chance to offer any opinions on the matter?
Why does any topic mentioning "Jewish" have to be dominated by you and freddie, almost as if you are afraid people might get a different view on things in a forum where all people are supposed to be able to discuss freely without FALSE accusations dreamed up by you and your tag-team partner, freddie.
I think one of you two baits, and the other one attacks.
I think you two are so tiresome, ugh!

You have stated some of your predictable comments about the newspapers which were written so many years ago when no one knew, back then, that some Irish (sounding) guy, who you refer to as a half-wit, would dig them up in the future and notice something really odd.

You seem to accept the modern day redefined definition of anti-Semite even when a Semite is and never was just any ole Jew from any tribe - only Semites from the Shem bloodline are Semites.
Mere men can change the words of God, now?...(Webster's Dictionary etc etc.)

HERE YE! HERE YE!
THROW AWAY YOUR BIBLES, EVERYONE, BECAUSE HE HAVE WEBSTER'S NEWLY UPDATED DICTIONARY NOW. Pffft!.
Times really have changed.

I've mentioned in a thread that i strongly think YOU had locked, that no matter what happens on the Earth, God will judge each of us accordingly when the Day comes.
He'll have no trouble spotting the fakes.

I think you get anti-Semite and anti-Jew confused because you ignore the teachings of YOUR OWN religion. Unless the Talmud is what you've been reading.

Anyway, great! Thank for your input in this thread.
However, i think you seem to have nothing more intelligent to say on the topic of the newspaper articles.
But now, instead of moving on to other threads of interest, after you've made your comments about the words in the newspapers, i think that you believe that you have the right to start coming at me and laying the idea of me being antisemitic, at my feet, just because i posted a video, and you're accusing me of hiding an ace up my sleeve, and then you have the gall to try to say to the board, for all to see, that you don't want this thread closed.
Man what a character i think you are, actually, i think you can be more like a caricature, at times.

I think you and freddie have stated your views, now please move on and let others have a chance to express their views, also, without the fear of being called antisemitic.

Maybe in your world, people say one thing and mean another with the sole intention to hurt others; steal from others; discredit others; rape others; shame others OR to try to convince the readers that a pure at heart person, like me, is really antisemitic or even intrinsically evil or stupid, just because YOU twist my meanings around.
In my world, however, i only say what i mean.
There are no aces up my sleeves nor do i have a hidden agenda to hurt ANYONE.

You, "cowboy" along with your "sidekick" the brooding mouse, i think are obviously OBSESSED with this thread, because i think it gives you ample opportunity to attempt to shut down, yet, another interesting thread of which you obviously disapprove, so you can probably "scratch" another useless "notch" in your keyboard and attribute it to what you probably refer to as your "intelligence" but what i will only refer to as your obvious skill and ability to twist others' words and intentions around in order to manipulate a conversation or a topic.

Move on, please!
I think YOU have made your point, and have stated your views.

Now i really HOPE this thread can back ON TOPIC, please.
I want to learn something new today, and not be called "something" vile, again.

In closing, i doubt the Irish (sounding) guy speaking in the video is such the half wit as you claim he is, as he has actually presented an interesting slice of history that NOBODY in here even knew existed. Who is the dim wit, again?...those who deny the words in a newspaper written before their time...those who follow the ancient teachings of Websters' dictionary?

Have a great day, you Alter keker, as you lust over all the goyisher tuches and schmekels.

I don't want to argue. So STOP trying to what i think is baiting me into an argument in which i am forced, to step out of my usual character, against my will, in order to defend myself against your VILE claims.
And stop explaining what OTHER people mean in their posts...WHO do YOU think you are, anyway, by doing that!

Go shovel some snow and let others have and enjoy a conversation for a change.
This thread was not addressed to YOU.
You are welcomed to comment with respectful comments that address the TOPIC, but not welcomed to call me anti-Semitic, or anti-Jew or anti- ANYBODY. So take your schtick elsewhere. I think everybody can agree that you've made your racist point. I think you are actually an anti-Gentile, it sure seems that way.
The Babylonian Talmud describes the Gentile race as less than unworthy dogs. If that is how you feel, your membership should raise some eyebrows.
Don't go away angry, just go away. Unless, of course, you wish to discuss with others the meaning of the newspapers articles if THAT is, at all, possible without you getting all frantic in your false belief that i am being anti-Semitic or a Haolocaust denier

I am eager to read your views on the matter so long as you do not discriminate against people.

I have not shown one iota of discrimination.

And i don't believe for one SECOND that you and freddie did not report this thread already. You are so two-faced on this board.
Gey avek!

Have a nice day, now.
xoxoxo



....

[trish]

You don’t think millions of Jews were persecuted in Europe before Hitler came to power? Why do you think it’s amazing that ten newspaper articles from 1915 to 1938 refer to the persecution of millions of Jews. Jews were being driven in large numbers from the borders of various countries (especially Germany and eastern Europe) by political pressures, pogroms and later the threat of concentration camps. National Socialism appears as early as 1870 and was going strong by 1914. Have you made a count of how many other newspaper articles have reported on the millions of Jews that were being persecuted? Why are just these ten of interest? Is it the mention of “six million”? Why do you think it’s significant that ten newspaper articles from 1915 to 1938 mention the number “six million” in regards to the Jewish persecution that was ongoing throughout the period? Why is this of interest and not say, the reasons for the persecution, or the political context of the persecution, or the religious justifications for the persecution, or the immigration pressures felt because of the influx of fleeing Jews? There are dozens of interesting questions, and topics to discuss, why the focus on ten newspaper articles and the number six million.

I’m afraid it’s obvious what the YouTube narrator has in mind. What you “strongly think” is less clear. You love conspiracy theory (by your own admission) and I’m guessing the “six million” piques that side of your interest. But surely you’re aware of the sensitivity of this topic, otherwise you wouldn’t have offered the weird and inapplicable definition of antisemitism in a flawed effort to deflect that specific criticism.

Intelligent discussion of even a noncontroversial topic requires argument. If you think my proof of an algebraic identity is wrong, I’d want you to either show me where the proof goes wrong, or to show me an example where the alleged identity fails: the former is criticism and the latter analogous to mockery. Saying, “That’s nice, you can believe what you want, but this is what I believe,” neither shows us the flaw in the alleged proof nor illustrates the incredulity of the conclusion.

To summarize.
My first point is: Surely we know millions of Jews have been persecuted in various ways even before Hitler took power and their persecution (many of the same millions) accelerated after he took power. It is not surprising that ten English language newspaper articles (appearing between 1915 and 1938 ) would be devoted to that topic. There are (I would guess) tens of thousands of writings on the topic in many languages appearing during that time-span.
My second point: From the claim that ten references to "six million" out of the tens of thousands of articles, speeches, lectures, pamphlets and books (concerning the modern plight of the Jewish people in Europe) that have appeared in the period from 1915 to 1938 very little of significance can be deduced. I am accusing the narrator of the YouTube Video of the time honored tradition of Cherry Picking his articles.
My third point is: Numbers of this magnitude in that time period were very difficult to get right. It is not surprising that one journalist would use the numbers reported by another. It may not be good journalism but it's not conspiracy.
My question to you is: Even if there were twenty articles or two hundred, or a thousand...what do you think it proves? What to you expect to learn? Is there something you already believe that you want debunked or confirmed?

[fred41]

Hey freddy,...and subsequent posts..


Oh Brother...:rolleyes:

Interestingly, in-so-far as this particular thread is concerned, I never directly called you anti-Semitic (I believe you are referring to a different thread in the General Discussion section...where I did, either directly or not)...nor did I call you a "holocaust denier"...though admittedly, I clearly alluded to that in my post...though it was, in fact, unnecessary on my part...since some of your very own posts make that allusion.

I have nothing further to add to this thread, so this may be my last comment here anyway...

Couple of notes:
This is not the type of thing I would, or have in the past, sent a report on...especially in the 'Politics and Religion' thread. That would probably defeat the purpose to having a 'Politics and religion' thread. So I'm not doing that.

The username 'Fred41' was used by me on a smaller, somewhat similar, now defunct site and carried over to HungAngels. As some other members here know - multiple usernames, aliases, sock puppets and such are a personal pet peeve of mine. I would never resort to such insecure laziness.

I guess whether or not you really are anti-Semitic would depend on the reason you seem to believe in this particular conspiracy stream...

It would help for you to read Trish's last post...and give a complete answer to her last question:


My question to you is: Even if there were twenty articles or two hundred, or a thousand...what do you think it proves? What to you expect to learn? Is there something you already believe that you want debunked or confirmed?


Kisses..lol.

[Stavros]

Originally Posted by Dahlia Babe Ailhad
I've only posted a video which shows 10 newspapers which mention the figure of 6 million Jewish souls being persecuted BEFORE Hitler even came in to power.

On Holocaust memorial day -a day to remember all victims of genocide-, 70 years after the liberation of Auschwitz your thread must be one of the most tasteless that has appeared on HungAngels since it started. It is disingenuous of you to pretend you don't know what the idiot (his accent puts him in the north-east around Newcastle) had in mind when he posted his clip.

You would have done better to ask how many Jews there were in Europe when Adolf Hitler blew his brains out on the 30th April 1945. I will give you a hint- it wasn't 6 million.

Some years ago I lived in North London round the corner from the aunt of the poet Paul Celan, a fact I did not discover until after I had moved away, when reading the background to his poem Mapesbury Road. Celan's father and mother were arrested in 1942 and taken from Romania to a camp in Moldova where the father died of typhus and his mother was shot in the neck. Celan himself was forced to work in a labour camp in Moldova, surviving that to end up after the war in Paris, where he published his poems, including the devastating Death Fugue. The poem below is a particular favourite of mine, rising through the swell of wandering words to eclipse the shame this thread otherwise provokes.

I am the first to drink of the blue that still looks for its eye.
I drink from your footprint and see:
you roll through my fingers, pearl, and you grow!
You grow, as do all of the forgotten.
You roll:the black hailstone of sadness
is caught by a kerchief turned white with waving goodbye.

http://www.poemhunter.com/paul-celan/

[broncofan]

Dahlia
1. If you are not a Holocaust denier or an anti-semite then you are someone who thinks at least part of the Holocaust was fabricated and that Jews conspired to do it. I happen to think you're a Holocaust-denier and an anti-semite and don't see why I shouldn't say it.
2. I tried to explain to you the fact that many english words are actually misnomers that become part of the vernacular through common usage; A German man named Wilhelm Mar coined the word anti-semite to describe himself. He wanted a word that denoted both religious and ethnic bases for his bigotry. Even if we disagree over the term used to describe hatred of Jewish people, we can at least agree that's what we are talking about.
3. I did address the newspaper articles. I said specifically that it's not logical to think they signify what the dim-witted fellow implied they do. I also addressed the numerology; ie. the part of your post where you note that a certain day in history adds up to the mark of satan. What does the mark of satan have to do with the title of this thread? Are Jewish people satanic?
4. This is the only username I post under.
5. I did not report any of your posts in this thread.
6. I did not ask for the thread on the main forum to be locked although I did report two of your posts in it (if memory serves I think it is the only time I reported anything anti-semitic and it was in large part based on the fact that it was a thread derail).
7. I am not old as you said in Yiddish; I am in my early thirties (closing in on middle thirties).
8. Nobody tried to manipulate what you said, they only characterized it accurately.
9. By posting in this thread I am not preventing anyone else from expressing a view; I don't see how more views would assist you as it seems most of the people in this thread generally agree with me and disagree with you.
10. This is my last post in this thread*. Given the thoughtful responses to this thread, it is not really embarrassing as Dahlia appears to be a quorum of one.**
*for the day
**plus the person who likes a couple of her posts.

[Odelay]

Dahlia
10. This is my last post in this thread*. Given the thoughtful responses to this thread, it is not really embarrassing as Dahlia appears to be a quorum of one.
This is exactly right. Dahlia, if you're still monitoring this thread, I have to agree with broncofan that you've been given many thoughtful responses here. And if you were a long time participant, you'd know that it isn't every day that broncofan and I agree. In fact, I'd say there's some pretty diverse opinions amongst me, bronco, trish, fred and stavros. Although I do confess that my snarky response was much less thoughtful than the others.

In the end, you succeeded. You posted the video and commanded us all to "Discuss!" And we did, indeed, discuss. If you wanted some opinions about the video, you couldn't have asked for much more than what you received.

p.s. I didn't report you either. I never report anyone on this board.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Hi Odelay and those others in this thread so far,

Odelay, thank you very much. I really did need to see this comment of yours to realize that bronco and trish ended up taking the time to try to help me understand by discussing it.

I will admit, though that i became pretty offended by the first few comments when trish, bronco and fred were not discussing it "really" at first, and instead, were being, in my opinion, kind of, sarcastic with their comments an rolling their eyes etc, as if to say "Here we go again!"
Especially, fred, there, who rarely offers me any of his wisdom but prefers to use nasty clichés meant to belittle me, instead.
Sorry fred, but only you make your bed, in my eyes.
Especially when fred asks me to repeat, again, after i've quoted and commented on his remark.

I saw a bash-fest coming my way and so i decided to post the antisemitism link, which is a definition of the word i truly believe in, as the Unknown Author uses Biblical facts to define it. And that makes more sense to me than any man-made, updated versions of dictionaries or books.

Why do Holy books need to be rewritten anyway? What's the evil intention in any of that practice?
I don't care what Webster's or what encyclopedias have say about Biblical facts, as the Bible says it all.
No rabbinical oral teachings can rewrite the words of God as rabbis are mere men - smart educated men, but still, only men.
Man can not and should not try to redefine the words and teachings of the Bible and pass it off as the words of God.
I don't even believe Catholic priests when they talk, as i don't trust any man of the cloth, and i do not trust religion, in general, as it was created by man to control the masses with fear of damnation. Only man does that and only man wrote the Books in their own words.

Even when i was a young child or 6 and 7, i would kick and scream when my family brought us to church on Sundays. I always had a deep rooted fear that priests wanted to literally eat me.
You should see one of my First Communion photos. I was so terrified to look at the camera, my eyes were going from side-to-side in my eye sockets to make sure that the priest wouldn't snatch me away and eat me up. That's the truth. I was all set to run, screaming.
There is one photo of me with my eyes deep in the corners of my eye sockets as i knelt there, wearing my little black suit and tie, with my hands in the prayer position. I was terrified.
I still don't like going into any so called "House of God". The smell, i don't like, the idols i don't like, and the words i don't like. All the standing and kneeling i don't like. And i don't like when pedophile men of any cloth are permitted to continue as a religious leader.

Now, as an adult, i've learned about the evils of the man-made holy buildings called churches, synagogues or mosques. All religions are evil and up to no good, to me. They are all based on the decisions of men as to what God says or wants, especially how books are translated from one language to another and meanings get changed.
How ancient scrolls are found and REJECTED because they would simply destroy the accepted dogma that has prevailed for thousands of years. It's all wrong. Someone is getting rich from it all, when God and his many Prophets never wanted riches.
I hate how the Vatican prays to a painting of a negro Mother Mary and Jesus but presents to the world the Hollywood rock-star-looking blue-eyed Jesus having blond hair highlights,
Jesus was was not white skinned. Yet the Vatican supports even that lie.

I hate how millions of people have been murdered because of religious judgments and persecutions because of words written by mere men with greedy hearts harboring evil ambitions.
So, trish, i believe that all religions were based on evil. Humans, themselves, were created in the image of the Elohim, how can they become so evil - only when a religious dogma gets introduced which causes tempers to flare because one is thinking it's better that the other.
We all can see that happening all around this ball of confusion called planet Earth.
Am i an atheist? No.
Do i believe in a single God, who created all humans in HIS image? No.

I believe in doing good and not hurting others because that is what we are supposed to be like. We were put here to become better - not worse. Religion makes us worse to each other but good to our brethren of the same faith.
Muslims hate Jews, Jews hate Muslims, Gentiles hate Jews, Jews hate Gentiles etc etc, when we are all supposed to be loving one another as children of a race of Gods. I HATE all of the hatred on this dogmatic planet created by each religion.

And i truly, believe that the number of the beast, 666, is related to all of the three major religions, Christianity, Islam, and Judaism as they all stem from the same part of the world almost from the same neighborhood

Satan will be there on the Judgement Day to remind us of all the evil doings that he successfully tricked us into doing, while on Earth, not the Gods.
That is my belief.
All rivers reach the sea, and all rivers have different names, but all rivers contain waters which flow.
We are all the water, and it's such a shame that the waters can be polluted to poison and kill each other over man written words.

So anyway, back to the responses to this thread's topic of "6 Million Jews".
Instead of the responses i had initially received. I was hoping for the opposite reaction.
Although maybe i should have expected some initial sarcasm when bringing up a topic which trish pointed out is a very sensitive one to bring up, especially after me discussing conspiracy theories in another thread.
Not to mention the extremely bad timing of my first post in this thread.
I will be honest and say i really had no idea that the day after posting this thread was the Memorial Day of Auschwitz's termination.
Had i been aware of that, i would never have posted this thread when i did. I, sincerely apologize for the bad timing.
I am not a bad person.

Once the antisemitism ball started rolling my way, i became defensive and rather angry because that was not my objective in posting this thread.

I have great difficulty understanding many of trish's posts because she is highly educated and use a complex language that i have difficulty understanding - kind of like classic poetry which you really have to stop and think about in order to understand it.
I use basic words and simple sentence structures with which to express my views.
Trish writes like a university professor when she writes, and she writes as if every one is at her level - i am not at her level.
Even bronco is quite well versed, but i doubt he is only in his 30s, as he seems to be in his mid 50s by how he writes, and that is not meant as an insult.

My formal education is nothing to brag about, at all.
I was legally allowed to leave school at 12.5 years old.
I only went back to school in my early 20s and attended an Adult Education course to get my high school diploma so that i could join the army. I never did join.
I was never able to complete Adult Education until about ten years later because my life has always filled with termoil. I ended up living in Europe in high society for a while. I can't get into that because it's far too personal and revealing.

I've been in and out of adult education schools trying to finish what i should have finished in my early youth.
I am what is commonly considered by many as a wasted talent. It's too bad for me that i came from such a broken home.

I was trying to read Freud when i was 12 to 14 to try to educate myself at home in my bedroom because attending formal school was very hard on me being transgendered.
I've read Freud's The Interpretation of Dreams, and, On Sexuality, at that young age, with a dictionary on hand. I hardly understood what i was reading as it was way ahead of my brain power, but the will was there. I later turned to music, as it was an outlet for expression.

I never wanted to read any fiction because i dropped out of school so young so i tried to read only books from which i could learn something. The more i learned, the more i alienated myself from the ignorance of my immediate family.
When i talk to them, it's like trish talking to me. They don't understand half of what i am trying to express.

They always accused me of trying to be better than them. Especially after being where i was while in Europe and the lifestyle i was living.
It's sad to become so different from one's own family.

As life progressed, i had to work, and the learning slowed down.
That's not to say i've learned so much in life. I haven't learned nearly enough, and so, i ask question sometimes.
I am not saying that i am smarter than anyone else.


Ok look,
I have things to do today so i can't keep writing on and on, and i love writing.
I will return later to try to finish this post and respond to the comments that were already made on the topic of this thread. Thanks to trish and bronco for the better comments.
I am not happy it turned into a antisemitic debate against me.

In closing:
I never meant to offend anyone with this thread. I knew this was a sensitive topic and that's why i only offered the most minimal posted words which came to the word, "Discuss", because i didn't want to say the wrong thing, because of bronco, mostly, and fred's sacracsim and eye rolling and disapproval of Gentiles discussing Jewish issues and people. And that was learned in the LOCKED thread from several weeks ago.

I hate dogmas. I like learning.
I am off to the swimming pool, followed by dinner.And i have to wash the walls of one room, by hand, so i am not sure if i will be back tonight.

I wanted to offer, at least, something with this post, but i've run out of time. I have to go.

Babe,
xoxo

[broncofan]

Dahlia I'll write this as a friendly post on a couple of ideas in this thread. The old testament was written well over 2000 years ago. What the bloodlines are of every group of Jews from the Sephardic to the Mizrachi to the Ashkhenazi is not clear even after genetic studies...except to say that modern Jewish people probably have admixture from many ethnic groups.

There have been a number of genetic studies that have identified alleles in ashkenazi Jews that would indicate their origins are mostly from West Asia (Palestine). But yet there are some people who claim they are comprised of mostly by central Asian Khazar converts. Others still believe that there were a small number of Khazars who converted into a much larger group. I imagine there is no ethnic group that has been entirely insular for two thousand years and that includes Jews.

The word anti-semite was never used as a literal word because there has never been a prejudice that has targeted people broadly on the basis of semitic background. For instance, when the prejudice is against semites based on their practice of Islam, the word used is Islamophobia. If it's against Arabs who are not Muslim, it might be anti-Arab racism.

The word anti-semite was a pseudo-scientific attempt to form a racial/ethnic basis for disliking Jewish people so that converting from Judaism to some other religion would not purge the taint of that person's Jewishness. It ended up sticking and being used as the word for Jew-hatred. There are dozens of words that are misnomers, but are nevertheless used because they've been adopted by speakers of that language. So we're not really talking about bibilical facts as much as we're talking about language.

I read (on the endlessly informative wikipedia) that there are some scholars who like to use the unhyphenated word antisemitism in order to indicate that it is not a prejudice based on opposition to semitism. So that might be a nice compromise position.

I also want to note that the theory presented in the youtube video is not coherent for a variety of reasons. First, the articles were written by many people in the decades leading up to the Holocaust. The implication is that many Jewish people communicated with one another and decided to say there were a series of atrocities against Jews where six million people died. This would require meetings between people across decades and continents to plant the figure into the annals of history. But there is actual documentary evidence of the WWII atrocities committed against Jews.

The pictures of the bodies piled high. The testimony from death camp guards about a thousand people being stuffed into a gas chamber and scratching and clawing over a twenty minute period until they stopped moving. The people with tattoos used to designate them as concentration camp inmates. The thousands of people who lost entire sides of their families. The documentary evidence is overwhelming, including logistical information about people being transported to camps from various European countries.

Finally if a group of Jews were planting casualty numbers into newspapers why wouldn't they mix up the number to hide their malfeasance? Why would they consistently use six million as a fabricated number instead of altering the figures (heck they could have decided upon a higher number)? People engaging in bad behavior typically make efforts to conceal what they've done.

[trish]

One of your remarks, Dahlia, inspired the following digression. I don’t want to sidetrack us too much. Take it for what it’s worth.


Why do Holy books need to be rewritten anyway? What's the evil intention in any of that practice?

Why rewrite the Bible? Many of the writings now found in the Bible were first written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. Many of the new followers of Christianity in the late Roman Empire couldn’t read Hebrew or Aramaic. So Constantine convened an enormous assembly of scholars to translate the ancient Aramaic into Greek. At convention there was much discussion as to which “books” and which stories should make it into the “official” version of The Bible as well as which translations were correct and which misleading. We do not have a literal copy of the Bible as God beamed it into the heads of the prophets. Nor do we have the literal words of the original disciples. We have translations of stories that have been handed down the generations by mouth and eventually found their way onto paper now lost to the ages.

The King James Bible is one of the earlier efforts to translate it into English that is readily available today. A lot of modern English readers find it to be a bramble of awkward and archaic forms. So every decade new scholars attempt new translations, some from the surviving Hebrew and Aramaic texts, some from the early Greek translations like Constantine’s, some use a combination of earlier sources.

In part, the drive for newer translations comes from the evolution of modern usage. Modern readers often misinterpret ancient text because they are not familiar with usages that were contemporary with the writing. Have you ever tried to read Canterbury Tales in Chaucer’s original Middle English? Or Beowulf in Old English? If you have, then you understand the service modern translators provide. But one has to realize that good translations are not one-to-one correspondences. A good translation is a faithful retelling in the words of the translator with solemn guidance from the original text.

Books I recommend: 1) Seamus Heaney’s enthralling translation of Beowulf.
2) Is That a Fish in Your Ear? by David Bellos.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Hi Broncofan, trish (and fred),

Interesting.
(Oh and to bronco, thanks for deciding to be nice.
Being nice is like weight-lifting in that the more you do it, the easier it gets).

I read your words, and yet, i am scratching my head (because it's itchy).

Dahlia ...What the bloodlines are of every group of Jews from the Sephardic to the Mizrachi to the Ashkhenazi is not clear even after genetic studies...except to say that modern Jewish people probably have admixture from many ethnic groups.
First, i would be quite interested in reading especially trish's views, and with a slightly lesser-degree of interest to read fred's comments (if he has anything decent to add that is. I welcome it) on this part of your comments.





There have been a number of genetic studies that have identified alleles in ashkenazi Jews that would indicate their origins are mostly from West Asia (Palestine). But yet there are some people who claim they are comprised of mostly by central Asian Khazar converts. Others still believe that there were a small number of Khazars who converted into a much larger group.
Second, i thought Khazaria was in Europe, not in Middle East Palestine.






I imagine there is no ethnic group that has been entirely insular for two thousand years and that includes Jews.
I would suggest Chinese people who are even more strict about interracial marriages than Jewish people are.




--------------------------------------------
In my early teens, i read a book called, Treblinka, which was about that death camp in Poland.
I saw all the photos of the dead bodies piled in heaps, and read the personal accounts of prisoners who managed to survive.
I do not need to be reminded of the atrocities of the Holocaust. I never once said that i denied it happened. So i'll kindly ask that you stop insinuating that i have denied it ever happened.

In my early 20s, i had a Polish friend whose mom had numbers tatooed on her forearm and she told me what happened. So, i know it happened, i've read about it, and watched countless documentaries, went to see and Schindler's List. I've listened to some of Hitler's speeches from those days (on youtube).

The posting of the first link (with the newspapers) was posted because somewhere in one of those papers (the one either just before or just as the war started) there was a mention of the word, "Holocaust".
So i was wondering how there could have been two Holocausts when all we really hear about was the Holocaust carried out by the Nazis.
So that is why i posted it. I didn't know there was a first Holocaust if the first one could really be called a Holocaust as there were no death camps until Hitler started.
I was aware of European Jewish people in Russia being forced out of villages and so forth but never knew that to be a "Holocaust".
And i only knew of the Russian Jewish people because of a favorite movie of mine called, Fiddler on the Roof. I saw no death camps or mass murders in that movie, and that's not to say they should have shown anything like that in a rather lighthearted comedy/drama musical.

I googled "Holocaust", and 1915 Russia was never mentioned.

I googled Russian Holocaust and i skimmed over the article looking for any connection to the information presented in the newspaper articles in the first link, and there is no connection to mass murders and death camps in Russia.
It states that there were a lot of Jewish people being forced to leave their homes, villages and so forth, beatings, ostracisation and so forth but no "mass murders" which could be called "a Holocaust". I am not denying the Russian Jewish people were treated badly, at all.
The google Russian Holocaust article starts to mention Holocaust when referring to the WW2 death camps, not in Russian villages. So this is why posted the video, merely to ask "what's going on?"

I've merely skimmed over the webpage trish posted, when she accused the guy in the video of "cherry picking his articles".
However i didn't see anything mentioned about Russian mass murders which could be called a Russian Holocaust in trish's linked webpage.
The first part of the google article on Russian Holocaust mentions pretty much what was happening in The Fiddler on the Roof - what i mentioned above in the bold font.

So my question still remains, kind of, unanswered as to why 6 million Jews were mentioned followed by the pre-war use of the word Holocaust in the newspaper article.
Asking this question is not being antisemitic and i am not trying to be disrespectful. I am just curious and trying to figure things out.

Trish, i had a quick look on youtube for the Beowulf story, and i will check it out. However, at present, i am not sure how Anglo-Saxons relates to the topic of the thread. Perhaps that will unfold within the story, somehow.
I appreciate the suggestion.
And i want to thank you for toning down of the complexity of your text - much thanks for that effort.

Okay, again i am off to the pool. I swim so much that i think i feel fins growing in.

I'll should be back after dinner providing i don't get wacked by a car on the snowy streets after a snowfall last night and even right now, while i ride my bike for the 20 minute bicycle ride to the indoor pool.

Thanks for reading and for your comments.
Babe,
xoxo

[broncofan]

My understanding is that the Khazars are central Asian. They are not from Palestine. I said there is a lot of disagreement about the genealogy of Ashkenazi Jews. There have been some genetic studies that have found Ashkenazi Jews did not have significant admixture from Khazars. However, there are others who disagree...it's a controversy I'm not all that interested in but I did read a genetic study about Ashkenazi Jewish origins that seemed to undermine the Khazar hypothesis. I'm always surprised to read articles that present the Khazar hypothesis as though it's a certainty when it has been undermined by several genetic studies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews#Genetic_origins

There were several series of pogroms in Russia in the late 19th century and early 20th century. The pogroms in Russia would not properly be referred to as a Holocaust (Holocaust is a proper noun referring to a single event and not a word that denotes genocide more generally). Without having the entire articles in front of me I could not tell you very much about their context. The Holocaust took place between 1942 and 1945. There were casualties that resulted from the series of pogroms, though I don't know how many.

[broncofan]

This is definitely my last post in this thread unless it's resurrected in several months. I won't respond otherwise. I just want to say I think you're disingenuous when you claim you don't know where the youtube video was heading and what it was suggesting. You also made comments in the memorial thread that I thought were a bit disrespectful, however you think you meant them. That's just my view...you may not think it's nice but that's my view.

I'll also say that most people when they find they've said things that are false, about people sock-puppeting them or reporting their thread are willing to apologize instead of always acting like the aggrieved party. I will also note that a lot of people will assume when a bunch of people disagree with them and few if any agree that they might re-evaluate their actions.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Hi Broncafan,

I can fully understand your frustration with me, as i dig deep into subjects when i am trying to figure things out.

I was very sympathetic about what happened in the Holocaust, and i expressed that sentiment in the Liberation of Auschwitz Memorial thread.
My problem is i am, perhaps, a bit too genuine for some people.

All religions aside, i think maybe now you might be able to understand why my own siblings can't deal with me for very long. I used to tick them off with many of my observations.

I am really sorry to lose you in this discussion because you were becoming so polite, (unless you were just pretending to be which i doubt).

I have no idea why you would say if this thread is "resurrected in several months" to say that that's when you will post again in it. By then, you will be so out of the loop, that i feel you would only come back with more antisemitic comments about me merely out of more frustration caused by your lack of willingness to discuss. As you wish.

Even in that last link you posted of the Khazars, look, sweety, there is a map which shows where Khazaria is located. And it's close to Poland - not Palestine.
I would only assume that your family has more Polish roots than Palestinian roots.

My mentioning the Amerindians and African slaves in the Memorial thread was by no means disrespectful in my delivery. However, maybe, you might like to choose to say i was VERY disrespectful in even bringing that up.
We are not in an all Jewish community, here, it's an open forum for discussion.
I cannot merely close my eyes and just go along with things and be a hypocrite to my own thoughts and perceptions of common facts and knowledge that other races were slaughtered in the hundreds of millions.
I did not say that i care less for the loss of Jewish people in the Holocaust.
I just pointed out that there have been other races who suffered larger amounts of people who were horribly slaughtered. Each slaughter was different, not one was more atrocious than the other. All slaughters are horrible.
I can't understand why the Holocaust gets all this attention for the loss of 6 million.
And i am certainly not suggesting that because "only" 6 million were slaughtered that the hundreds of millions of other people from other races slaughtered should trump the Holocaust in Europe.
I think there should be a memorial day for all the slaughtered people because THESE parts of human history SHOULD NEVER be forgotten.
What is good for one group should be good for the others. You really misunderstand me.
I love and cry for all people - not just ONE group.
I really do feel sympathy for the people who have lost loved ones to the Nazis. It was a horrible part of human history which should never be forgotten.
However, the African Negros are part of the lineage of Jewish people, and i think the Amerindians, as well. The Twelve Tribes were scattered all over the globe.
Trish's breast avatar is dark skinned and so is the image of those beautiful eyes in her profile. How could i only feel sympathy for the European part of the Jewish people in an event which killed other races other than European Jewish people. Not only white Jewish people were killed in the Holocaust. The Nazis were all over the globe at that time.

I am not wearing blinders around my eyes causing me to only see in one direction like horses are made to wear.
I am for fairness for all people.

I am beginning to believe that you only look for fault in me in order to...uhmm...not consider me worthy of your time.
That is a pity, i think. I think we could learn from each other. But you seem to want me to learn only from you - and that can not happen, that is not fair to discredit my opinions only because i have an inquisitive mind which tries to see things from all angles.

I hope you come back soon with an open mind. I know none of this stuff really interests you, you have even admitted it. But don't, later on, post hateful comments when things don't go your way, either.
If you have nothing nice to say about a topic or discussion in progress, don't post comments only to incite hatred.

If you want to go away from this thread stomping your feet and slamming the door, do it. But i can't be dictated to when so many facts are available with the click of a button.

Don't be angry, please, i like you more when you are being an open minded gentleman, i know it's hard sometimes.

Go look at the last video i've posted in my Beer Commercial thread, it's totally heart warming. I think you have a heart, right? I can warm it.

Trish has been a real sweetheart in this thread. I like her kind of class.
She is intelligent with knowledge as well as her behavior.

Anyway. i want to go listen to the Beowulf book-reading (part one).
Someone commented (in youtube) that the audio-reading leaves out the best parts of the actual book. Maybe if the audio-book interests me enough, i will get the book.

Babe
xoxo (xo here's an extra kiss and hug for you, bronco.) I know you will wipe off my kiss with your hand but i will only say you rubbed it in.

[trish]

I won’t venture to give an opinion on the genealogy of the Jewish people, except to say science has pretty much given up the view that view that modern human beings can be meaningfully divided into biological subcategories or races. In ordinary language we recognize that there are groups of people who identify with each other based on common ancestral, cultural, social and religious experience (although not all four factors need be present for acceptance into the group). We generally think of these groupings as ethnicities. There are over fifty five ethnicities in mainland China and ten spoken languages. Westerners who tend to clump all these peoples into one grouping might be misled in thinking the “Chinese people are ... strict about interracial marriages...” My guess would be that there is considerable genetic variation among the “Chinese people” just as there is among those who identify ethnically and religiously with the Jewish tradition. Sammy Davis Jr. was welcomed into the Jewish community. ‘Nuff said.


Trish, i had a quick look on youtube for the Beowulf story, and i will check it out. However, at present, i am not sure how Anglo-Saxons relates to the topic of the thread.

I did indicate that whole post was a digression responding to your query about why people rewrite the holy books. It’s partly because languages change so radically over the years that their original forms can no longer be easily understood. Try reading a little bit of Beowulf in the original Old English. It can’t be done. Try reading different modern translations of the tale and you can appreciate by how different they are from each other and how each translation contributes in its own important way to our understanding of the original work. Though this is a digression to the topic of this thread it is somewhat relevant to the word “antisemitism.” It is not an ancient word. It is relatively modern word which was coined to mean exactly what it means today, which is not the interpretation you suggest but the one nearly everybody else (including the individual who coined the term) means by it.


The posting of the first link (with the newspapers) was posted because somewhere in one of those papers (the one either just before or just as the war started) there was a mention of the word, "Holocaust".


Of the ten newspaper articles cited in the YouTube video I recall quite a few of them claiming the six million Jews were being persecuted (not the same as executed). As I recall, in Judaism, a “holocaust” is a sacrifice which is burnt on the alter.” When driven from their homes it might be expected their sacrifice was occasionally referred to metaphorically by some writers as a holocaust. No one today would use the word that way for fear of trivializing a word that now refers to Hitler’s attempt to actually exterminate the Jews of Europe by gas, guns and fire.

In regards to your post in the memorial thread, I have to say it struck me as rudely inappropriate. I downthumbed you -sorry- but I felt it was out of place to derail a thread devoted to a somber topic. Starting a new thread on the persecution Native Americans and the systematic extermination of many tribes would’ve been (and still would be) appropriate.

[trish]

Let me follow that last post, after a night’s sleep, with an extension of the following paragraph and a question or two.


...
Of the ten newspaper articles cited in the YouTube video I recall quite a few of them claiming the six million Jews were being persecuted (not the same as executed). As I recall, in Judaism, a “holocaust” is a sacrifice which is burnt on the alter.” When driven from their homes it might be expected their sacrifice was occasionally referred to metaphorically by some writers as a holocaust. No one today would use the word that way for fear of trivializing a word that now refers to Hitler’s attempt to actually exterminate the Jews of Europe by gas, guns and fire....

Of course I mean this as only one possible explanation for how the word “holocaust” might have occurred in one of ten newspaper articles. (Which one was it by the way? I haven’t the heart to listen to the video again to find out which one.) Another possibility is that a post WWII time-traveler went back to preWWII America and wrote an article in a New York paper in a vane attempt to restrain the Nazis and stop the Holocaust. The time-traveler could only make the trip once and only had time to publish one or two articles. Another possible scenario is that Jehova Himself revealed the future to the article's writer.

One can only choose the among the hypotheses that are available. I usually go for the simplest one that isn’t ruled out by the facts. I would like to add your hypothesis, Dahlia, to the mix, but we haven’t heard it yet. Why is there preWWII newspaper article that mentions the word “holocaust” and why is there only one such article? Why are there ten preWWII newspaper articles that mention “six million Jews” and why are there only ten? To repeat myself

My question to you is: Even if there were twenty articles or two hundred, or a thousand...what do you think it proves? What to you expect to learn? Is there something you already believe that you want debunked or confirmed?

[martin48]

Just an old memo but says a lot

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

I never denied the Holocaust happened Martin.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Hi trish,

Originally Posted by trish
My questions to you, Dahlia, are:
Even if there were twenty articles or two hundred, or a thousand...
what do you think it proves?
I am not sure, which is why i posted the video and suggested a discussion.

What to you expect to learn?
I hope expect to learn something, from either intelligent people, like yourself, or by having to search for answers, myself, when trying to research something someone says to the things discussed in this thread.

Is there something you already believe that you want debunked or confirmed?
I am not sure what to believe after seeing that video of actual newspapers from before the war.

To answer another question, trish.
In the video, at 17:40 on the video time counter, the May 31, 1936 New York Times article mentions "European holocaust" twice in the same article.

For the word holocaust as a burnt offering:
The persecuted Russian Jewish people were not "offering anything to God in a burnt offering on an alter" as they were being persecuted, and beaten, so THAT meaning of word, holocaust, i think can not be assigned to fit into the meaning of the newspaper article author's words.
It's just strange that the word was mentioned before the war even started.

The guy in the video seems surprised (even sounds suspicious) and i am sure many people are surprised, too. For myself, i am just curious and though to ask the forum.


Time traveler? I dunno. Are you poking fun at me, trish?
Did bronco or fred PM you and suggest that question because i believe in that Valiant Thor alien - and aliens in general?
I tend to think fred or bronco did ask you to ask me about a time traveler lol, based on their unwillingness to write in the thread.
What would fred say about that if i mentioned a time traveler? Boy, oh boy.
I guess fred thinks it's okay when you ask me that silly question, though. But if i say it, i had better get ready to be called stupid or gullible.
I am not sure about time travelers. Maybe Marty McFly and the Doc were able to go back in time but now, i am just kidding with that.
On a more serious note, I would think a time traveler would be a little more aware of his or her photo being taken while visiting a time in the past if time travel is even possible.
I know i seem gullible to some people but i've seen those youtube videos, and i think it's a coincidence that someone appears to be talking on a cell phone in a black and white clip, totally unaware of the photographer. With today's technology, it's pretty easy to recreate a black and white film clip and caption it as." TIME TRAVELER CAUGHT USING A CELL PHONE in 1919" or whatever the date was.
Don't you think a time traveler would go back to prevent that from happening? lol.

Thanks,
Babe,
xoxo

[trish]

Hi trish,

Originally Posted by trish
My questions to you, Dahlia, are:
Even if there were twenty articles or two hundred, or a thousand...
what do you think it proves?
I am not sure, which is why i posted the video and suggested a discussion.

What to you expect to learn?
I hope expect to learn something, from either intelligent people, like yourself, or by having to search for answers, myself, when trying to research something someone says to the things discussed in this thread.

Is there something you already believe that you want debunked or confirmed?

For the word holocaust as a burnt offering:
The persecuted Russian Jewish people were not "offering anything to God in a burnt offering on an alter" as they were being persecuted, and beaten, so THAT meaning of word, holocaust, i think can not be assigned to fit into the meaning of the newspaper article author's words.
It's just strange that the word was mentioned before the war even started.

Thanks,
Babe,
xoxo



Ever sacrifice your pawn to save a knight? Many preWWII Jews sacrificed their jobs and homes to escape threats and persecution. Since a holocaust is a sacrifice why is it surprising that a handful of articles use the term to describe these circumstances? Today, now that the word holocaust has come to mean what it does today in the minds of so many people, such usage does indeed seem surprising.

I'm not claiming this is THE explanation of what you see as a mystery, however, 1). I don't believe it's at all incredible and 2) I don't see any other credible hypotheses on the table.

Btw, I haven't communicated with anybody else in these forums about the time traveler hypotheses. Though I would rule it out, I wasn't so sure you would. What do you think about the Jehovah's hypotheses?

I'm typing on my phone right now so please forgive all the typos, spelling and grammar.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Hi trish,

I don't know what you mean by the "Jehova's hypothesis".
Are you suggesting that i might be a Jehova's 'Weirdness'? (See the word play on 'Witness'?)


-------------------------


Ever sacrifice your pawn to save a knight? Many preWWII Jews sacrificed their jobs and homes to escape threats and persecution. Since a holocaust is a sacrifice why is it surprising that a handful of articles use the term to describe these circumstances? Today, now that the word holocaust has come to mean what it does today in the minds of so many people, such usage does indeed seem surprising....
That is a very interesting comment/question, trish.

"Sacrificing a pawn for a knight" (in a game of chess)?
Really? A GAME of chess to try to explain holocaust?? Interesting comparison!
I'll get to that later.

The May 31, 1936 article says:
" Great Britain has it within her power to throw open the the gates of Palestine and let in the victimized and persecuted Jews escaping from "the European holocaust". "

I can understand if the authors would have written '...let them escape from persecution and victimization' or even '...help make an exodus from European persecution and victimization', but to use "holocaust" when, at that time in history, the word holocaust ONLY meant "a Jewish sacrificial offering that is burned completely on an altar", is a very strange word choice considering how history played out in the WW2 Holocaust. It's almost like a prediction.

Also, in the video i posted, the mention of a holocaust was only mentioned in ONE article. The other nine articles focus on the amount of "6 million".

Furthermore, being forced from your home and land is not a "sacrificial offering burnt on an alter" as defined above.
When soldiers invade property of people and order them at gunpoint to leave, the victims are are not sacrificing anything. They get up and leave.

Are you suggesting that the phrase ..."the European holocaust" in quotation marks means that the author is changing the traditional and ritualistic meaning of the word "holocaust" to mean something similar to choosing to leave behind all their belongings in exchange for their lives?
If so, again, it's a strange word choice, especially how the word is, now, used when describing what happened in WW2.

I don't consider that an act of sacrifice. They really had no choice BUT to leave - or stay and die.
Who chooses to stay and die when there is another option offering (or allowing the chance or hope or right) of life.

Even in a game of chess, no player is really forced to sacrifice a pawn for a knight, as a sacrifice in chess is a choice a player makes to try to gain an advantage - a gamble one takes - in a board game.
Fleeing persecution, and all that is mentioned in the ten newspaper articles, is not an act of performing a sacrifice in order to gain an advantage of a situation. Remaining in that situation (in Europe) was futile.

Being "persecuted and victimized" in 1936 is not synonymous with the WW2 Holocaust or holocaust (burnt offering).
They were not "willingly offering up their freedom", they were fleeing from persecution, victimization. pestilence, starvation etc.


-------------------------

I was trying to read the FIRST newspaper article in the youtube video by using the pause button but it was pointless trying to do that.
I, finally, decided to search online in the New York Sun archive for June 6, 1915.
I found it and put the two links below for anyone to read. PAge 2 is really hard to as it's too light in some places to read but people can use their noggins to put two and two together. This is just one of the ten newspaper articles in the video. This article does not mention a holocaust.

June 6, 1915 (New York Sun) Fifth Section, Page 1 and page 2
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030272/1915-06-06/ed-1/seq-49/
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030272/1915-06-06/ed-1/seq-50/

Here is the archived, full article (which is shown on the video) which mentions "holocaust", in 1936. The archived article, doesn't show the quotation marks, as shown in the actual newspaper where it says "...European holocaust", though, which i find odd.
http://www.nytimes.com/learning/teachers/archival/19360531petition.pdf

As a matter of fact, through my research, (only) due the comments being made in this thread, i have discovered that since the year 1900, many newspapers and books had mentioned "6 million Jews", and describing the persecutions as a "holocaust".
Also, as far back as 1915, and afterwards, the word "holocaust" had been printed in newspapers and books even before the May 31, 1936 newspaper article in the video.

I found a webpage showing excerpts from all of the 271 newspaper articles and books from 1900 to 1945.
I do apologize for this webpage 'seemingly' looking like a 'Holocaust denier' page.

I poked around the site to discover that the photo of the men in the bunker on the left side of the screen showed a man (on the right of the photo) who was allegedly 'photo-shopped' out of the original photo. Even if that is true, i can't understand how even the removal of the naked man in that photo would explain that the whole Holocaust was a hoax.
So, i REALLY do have some strong, mixed feelings about that photo, as well as, many of the claims the site makes regarding the gas chambers as a hoax and so forth an so on.
Obviously, the people who created the site think that a lot of the facts of the Holocaust were exaggerated. I don't know how people can claim such things were exaggerated.
However, i do find it quite odd that the 6 million figure was pushed for so long, even before the Nazis got involved, and i also find it quite odd that the word holocaust (meaning burnt offering) became ingrained in the minds of newspaper readers throughout history even before the WW2 and how what happened in WW2 became a capitalized NEW word Holocaust. All of that, seems odd to me.

I am only focusing on the 271 articles you will see when/if you just scroll down a bit if you or anyone clicks on the link. That's all i am asking anyone to look at. I have copied and pasted the 271 excerpts into this thread in case anyone does NOT want to view a webpage containing what some people could consider in bad taste.
But in the link, the words "6 million" and "holocaust" and other key words are all in different colors so the reader can easily spot them while scrolling.
AGAIN, i do not endorse the claims of deniers. These guys seem to be like 'knowledge seekers' - they tend to dig deep - but i do question many of their claims as i have not read it all.

I did view an hour long, extremely GRAPHIC documentary which showed actual heart-breaking, video footage of Jewish people being tricked and deceived, and even of life INSIDE the ghettos, hangings, gun-point executions - all the worst parts of Schindler's List - presented in a link on this blog which actually showed interviews with a German SS commander who admitted to the gas chambers and how they did it and what they used.
Then, there are other links where Jewish, Jewish-historians claim the gas chambers was a hoax. So you see, there are many opinions expressed in this webpage and the links therein.

In that video i saw, there are interviews of survivors and i would never say THEY were/are lying about what they went through. IT WAS HORRIBLE what happened.
So that's why i call the site more of a truth seeking site rather than a blatant Holocaust denier/antisemitism site.

So, if any one wants to call me a denier or anti-Semite just because i present a page that should be of interest to everyone, including Jewish people whose Jewish parents and grandparents encouraged their kids and families to go see Schindler's List or else 'shame on them for not wanting to know"....well just consider that many of the articles in this webpage are of the real deal of what happened in human history - it's not a just Hollywood movie with an Irish actor playing the 'role' of Schindler.

If ANYONE wants to view a watered-down version of the Holocaust like in Schindler's List, you can watch Schindler's List again and again.
Or, you can start poking around this guy's site and just don't look at the parts you disagree with. There are lots of things in the site's links that show the Holocaust for what history has taught us about it.
And there are denier claims as well, sorry to say.
You can all pick and choose what you wish to show your kids and families from this site as there are commentary from both sides of the history. AGAIN, i have not read EVERY link in the pages, so, enter at your own risk, so to speak.

I have GREAT difficulty believing the many Holocaust deniers' claims because of the authentic footage that has been made available over the years.

Look, i'll be blunt. If someone told me my mother was a whore sucking cock in the back lane to feed us as kids, i would DENY that. BUT, if they showed me a video or photos of her doing it...what could i do except believe it, as difficult as it would be to believe.

I am not saying that the denier articles are true. I could/would never do that because one hating person's words are not enough for me.


However, i do know that some people can be bribed. And if the price is high enough, they would say anything.

I do know some people can't be bribed for any amount of money.

I do know that the world is a very confusing place, full of mysteries and deceptions, when and where big-money-interests are involved.

I do know that in a game of chess, a pawn for a knight could be advantages.

I do know that in some countries, when a animal herder wants to move his herd or flock through some river or stream that is inhabited by piranhas, he would take a sick, or old, or injured member of the herd further up stream and make the animal bleed and then sacrifice that animal by putting it into the water so the piranhas would go for that animal.
The herder would, then, signal to another herder to move the herd safely through the water to the other side of the bed of water.

Everything and anything is possible when greedy, evil mankind is involved, especially when dogma is involved.

Let's not forget about 9-11 when two planes hit two towers but yet three buildings fell, and how the third one, which was NOT hit, fell, hours later.
Many people just believe what the media covers up.

Let's not forget how JFK was assassinated for vowing to do away with secret societies, and so forth in that famous speech.
Also, there were other presidents who were assassinated for going against the "grain".

I mention these facts in this "quoted part" just to illustrate how truly evil and greedy men can be.


This link shows 271 articles mentioning "6 million Jews" and "holocaust" between 1900 and 1945.
http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/145-references-to-6000000-jews-prior-to.html?zx=477e483f255b871

This quote is of the link just above.


Wednesday, 8 February 2012
271 references to 6,000,000 Jews prior to the Nuremberg Trial announcement

"... there are six million open gates, and Anael is the chief guardian of them." - the New Zohar, Yitro, 38d

Below is a list of just some of the quotes found in newspaper articles, journals, and books published between 1900 and December 13, 1945, which claimed that specifically six million Jews, were in some form of peril, that they would be killed, or that they had been killed. This list, compiled with the help of Toshiro, numbers 271!
The later ones from 1944 and 1945 are about Jews, or gentile Zionists, claiming that 6,000,000 Jews had been killed by the Nazis before the corrupt German who went on to work for the CIA, confessed that was the figure the Nazis themselves estimated to have killed.
Also listed are eight other "holocausts" of Jews.
The majority of the articles quoted below can be found on this blog, and virtually all of them are viewable on hyperlinks on the German translation of this article on the link below.

"Verwenden Sie bitte den untenstehenden Link für eine überlegene Version dieses Artikel in deutscher Übersetzung. Der Übersetzer dieser Text, Stephan, stöberte auch die zitierten Zeitungsartikel, die Bücher, usw. (alles, ich denke) und vorausgesetzt Hyperlinks nach Online-Archiven zumeist, oder Faksimiles der Original-Artikel zumindest." http://criticomblog.wordpress.com/2013/04/19/256-erwahnungen-von-6-000-000-juden-vor-bekanntmachung-durch-die-nurnberger-prozesse/

1900 - Stephen S. Wise, New York Times, June 11, 1900
"There are 6,000,000 living, bleeding, suffering arguments in favor of Zionism."

1902 - Encyclopaedia Britannica, 10th Edition, Vol. 25, 1902, page 482
"While there are in Russia and Rumania six millions of Jews who are being systematically degraded ..."

1902 - Samuel W. Goldstein, New York Times, November 27, 1902
"PLEA FOR ZIONISM ... In answer I would say: Does Dr. Silverman represent the 6,000,000 Jews in Russia, 300,000 in Roumania and the 1,000,000 in Galicia?"

1903 - The Jewish Criterion (Pittsburgh), September 18th, 1903, page 6
" ... six million downtrodden brethren."

1904 - The Jewish Criterion (Pittsburgh), February 19th, 1904, page 2
" ... where five or six million people existed under persecution."

1904 - The Jewish Criterion (Pittsburgh), October 7th, 1904, page 1
" ... the final and definite deliverance of the six millions of Russian, Roumanian and Galician Jews ... transporting five or six million people over the sea."

1904 - Israel Zangwill, New York Times, October 20, 1904
"The problem does not relate to the American Jews, but to the 6,000,000 in Russia. The Russian Government has consented to allow the Jews to leave,"

1905 - New York Times, January 29th, 1905
"He declared that a free and a happy Russia, with its 6,000,000 Jews, would possibly mean the end of Zionism, since the abolition of the autocracy would practically eliminate the causes that brought Zionism into existence."

1905 - New York Times, November 1st, 1905
"From 1800 to 1902 he caused 6,000,000 Jewish families to be expelled from Russia ..."

1906 - New York Times, March 25th, 1906
" ... the condition and future of Russia's 6,000,000 Jews were made on March 12 in Berlin to the annual meeting of the Central Jewish Relief League of Germany by Dr. Paul Nathan ... He left St. Petersburg with the firm conviction that the Russian Government’s studied policy for the “solution” of the Jewish question is systematic and murderous extermination."

1907 - The Jewish Criterion (Pittsburgh), October 18th, 1907, page 13
" ... for six million people cannot emigrate.

1908 - Deseret Evening News, March 17th, 1908
" ... poverty, starvation and disease are the afflictions which now beset the six million Jews in that country and Roumania."

1908 - The Jewish Criterion (Pittsburgh), August 7th, 1908
" ... when six million Russian Jews are crying ... "

1911 - Encyclopaedia Britannica, 11th Edition, Vol. 2, 1911, page 145
"While there remain in Russia and Rumania over six millions of Jews who are being systematically degraded ..."

1911 - Max Nordeau speaking at The 1911 Zionist Congress. Hecht, Ben. Perfidy. NY; Julian Messner. 1961. page 254
"But the same righteous Governments, who are so nobly, industriously active to establish the eternal peace, are preparing, by their own confession, complete annihilation for six million people,"

1911 - Fort Wayne Journal Gazette (IN), June 4th, 1911, page 15
"PRINCE, PRIEST AND PEASANT WAGE WAR AGAINST SIX MILLION JEWS"

1911 - The Jewish Criterion (Pittsburgh), August 18th, 1911, page 14
"Very soon a fervid Russian patriotism will reign in every Ghetto, and the melting-up of the race begin. But this absorption of the five or six million Jews ... "

1911 - Max Nordeau, The Jewish Chronicle (London), August 18th, 1911, page 14
" ... the downfall of six million creatures ... for no war has ever yet destroyed six million human lives."

1911 - The Jewish Criterion (Pittsburgh), August 25th, 1911
" ... six million Jews are still groaning under the most terrible yoke."

1911 - Max Nordeau, The Jewish Criterion (Pittsburgh), September 1st, 1911, page 3
" ... the downfall of six million creatures ... for no war has ever yet destroyed six million human lives."

1911 - Max Nordeau, The Reform Advocate (Chicago), September 9th, 1911
" ... the downfall of six million creatures ... for no war has ever yet destroyed six million human lives."

1911 - New York Times, October 31st, 1911
"The 6,000,000 Jews of Russia are singled out for systematic oppression and for persecution due to process of law."

1912 - American Jewish Year Book 5672 (23 Sep 1911 - 11 Sep 1912), page 308
"Russia has since 1890 adopted a deliberate plan to expel or exterminate six millions of its people for no other reason than that they refuse to become members of the Greek Church, but prefer to remain Jews.

1912 - The Jewish Criterion (Pittsburgh), January 5th, 1912
" ... more than six million Jews reside in small towns and villages there is no Sabbath question."

1912 - Rabbi Stephen S. Wise, New York Tribune, September 11th, 1912, page 9
"Russia is now asphyxiating the Jews. It does not dare to offend the nations by blood spilling, so it is slowly, but surely grinding out the lives of 6,000,000 Jews."

1913 - Fort Wayne Journal Gazette (IN), October 18th, 1913, page 4
"There are six million Jews in Russia and the government is anxious to annihilate them by methods that provoke protests from the civilized world."

1914 - The Jewish Criterion (Pittsburgh), July 10th, 1914, page 9
" ... where six million Jews are suffering ... "

1914 - New York Times, December 2nd, 1914, page 12
"APPEAL FOR AID FOR JEWS. ... the plight of more than 6,000,000 Jews ... upon the Jewish people, more than nine millions of whom live in the countries at war and over six million of these in the actual war zone in Poland, Galicia and the whole of Russian frontier."

1915 - New York Times, January 14th, 1915, page 3
"In the world today there are about 13,000,000 Jews, of whom more than 6,000,000 are in the heart of the war zone; Jews whose lives are at stake and who today are subjected to every manner of suffering and sorrow ... "

1915 - The Jewish Criterion (Pittsburgh), March 19th, 1915
"How the casting of six million people into the deepest abyss of servitude and outlawry is to relieve tension we cannot understand."

1915 - The Sun (NY), June 6th, 1915, section 5, page 1
"Six million Jews, one-half of the Jewish people throughout the world, are being persecuted, hounded, humiliated, tortured, starved. ... six million Jews in Russia ... are being tortured so mercilessly."

1915 - The Jewish Criterion (Pittsburgh), June 25th, 1915
"The annihilation of the six million Jews now congregated in the Russian domains goes on in a well defined and systematic manner.

1915 - Jacob de Hass, The Boston Sunday Globe, September 26th, 1915, page 46
Indeed the only point that all warring elements are agreed upon is that at the end of the holocaust the Jews and Palestine will be more closely related than at present.

1915 - New York Tribune, October 14th, 1915
"What the Turks are doing to Armenians is child's play compared to what Russia is doing to six million Jews, her own subjects."

1915 - The Mercury, December 4th, 1915
" ... six millions of Russian and Polish Jews are to-day the most pitiable victims of that race hatred and that race fanaticism which have been the creed of Germany ... "

1916 - The Jews in the Eastern War Zone, The American Jewish Committee, 1916
" ... where six million human beings guilty only of adherence to the Jewish faith are compelled to live out their lives in squalor and misery, in constant terror of massacre ... estimated at six million or more ... of these six million people ... a kind of prison with six million inmates ... The persons most affected, the six million Jews of Russia ... The Jews are loyal and brave, and it is most inadvisable to pursue a policy which might convert six million subjects into enemies. ... the six million Jews of Russia still continued ... nearly three of the six million ..."

1916 - Sausalito News (CA), Jan 22nd, 1916, p.1
"... six million starving Polish Jews in the war stricken countries of Europe,"

1916 - Oakland Tribune (CA), January 25th, 1916, page 1
"The President of the United States—6,000,000 Starving, Homeless, People—and January 27th Why should the President, by proclamation to the people of the nation, fix upon january 27th as the day for contributing towards the relief of over six million Jews located in the Far Eastern War Zone?"

1916 - Oakland Tribune (CA), January 26th, 1916, page 1 (FRONT PAGE ADVERT 2 DAYS RUNNING)
"The President of the United States—6,000,000 Starving, Homeless, People—and January 27th Why should the President, by proclamation to the people of the nation, fix upon january 27th as the day for contributing towards the relief of over six million Jews located in the Far Eastern War Zone?"

1916 - The Tacoma Times, February 28th, 1916
" ... there were 6,000,000 Jews in Europe absolutely without food or resources."

1916 - New York Times, February 28th, 1916
"Nearly six million Jews are ruined in the greatest moral and material misery; millions of them are refugees, dependent upon the good will of their brethren."

1916 - The Kalamazoo Gazette (Kalamazoo, MI), Wednesday, March 1, 1916, p.1.
"WAR MAVE MOVE 6,000,000 JEWS ... Nearly six million Jews are ruined;"

1916 - The Jewish Criterion (Pittsburgh), March 3rd, 1916
"Nearly six million Jews are ruined."

1916 - New York Herald, March 5th, 1916, Section III, p.10.
"Six million Jews, old men, women and little children, are suffering from the greatest calamity that has befallen Israel since the Egyptian bondage."

1916 - North Devon Journal, March 9th, 1916, page 7
"In Poland, in Southern and Western Russia, six million Jews resided when the War broke out. They lived there in the pale of settlement, in poverty, and were terribly overcrowded."

1916 - Fort Wayne Journal Gazette (IN), March 12th, 1916, page 34
" ... six million Jews reported starving in the warring countries."

1916 - The Jewish Criterion (Pittsburgh), March 31st, 1916, page 6
"Position of the Jews in Russia. The Jews in Russia, numbering about six million, are denied full political and civil rights and are economically oppressed."

1916 - El Paso Herald, April 22nd, 1916, page 5
"Six Million Jews Are Deprived Of Papers By Russian Censorship. ... Six million Jews have been robbed of their newspapers."

1916 - The Jewish Criterion (Pittsburgh), August 4th, 1916
" ... six million Jews ..."

1917 - Corsicana Daily Sun, February 16th, 1917, page 2
"Six million Jews are living in lands where they are oppressed, exploited, crushed and robbed of every inalienable human right."

1918 - Fort Wayne News and Sentinel (IN), June 22nd, 1918, page 1
"In the war zone of Europe there are six million Jews who have been the war's worst sufferers,"

1918 - The Columbus Jewish Chronicle, June 28th, 1918, page 1
"Claims Palestine Has Room For Six Million ... "It is quite possible for Palestine to find room for five to six millions ... 800,000 hectares will suffice to produce the food of six millions of people,"

1918 - The Bakersfield Californian, July 30th, 1918, page 4
"... the six million starving Jews in Poland, Galicia and other stricken Eastern provinces ..."

1918 - The Jewish Criterion (Pittsburgh), September 5th, 1918
" ... Russia, where the bulk of the Jewish people to the number of well over six million still dwell, is a land of blood and midnight darkness."

1918 - The Columbus Jewish Chronicle, September 13th, 1918, page 1
"The report describes the havoc the war has caused among the six million Jews of Russia. Driven by the invading armies, the Jews have been compelled to flee from their homes;"

1918 - New York Times, October 18th, 1918
"Six million Souls Will Need Help to Resume Normal Life When War Is Ended. ... Committee of American Jews Lays Plans for the Greatest Humanitarian Task in History. ... 6,000,000 Jews Need Help."

1919 - The Bourbon News, April 1st, 1919, p.4
"... six million Jews in Poland, Lithuania, Galicia, Palestine, Turkey and Siberia who are dying of starvation,"

1919 - The Corsicana Daily Sun, April 3rd, 1919, p.5
"SIX MILLION ARE STARVING ... It is estimated that there are six million Jewish women, children and aged men actually starving to death.

1919 - The Galveston Daily News, April 4th, 1919, page 3
"Six million Jews in Poland, Lithuania, Galicia, Palestine, Turkey and Siberia are dying of starvation. ... These six million despairing souls are totally dependent on American generosity for the bare necessities of life."

1919 - The Watchman and Southron, April 5th, 1919
"Six million Jews in Poland, Lithuania, Galicia, Palestine, Turkey and Siberia are dying of starvation. ... These six million despairing souls are totally dependent on American generosity for the bare necessities of life."

1919 - The Galveston Daily News, April 5th, 1919, page 5
"Six million Jews are dying of starvation."

1919 - The Galveston Daily News, April 6th, 1919, page 8
"The American Jewish Relief Committee is endeavoring to save from starvation six million Jews who are the helpless victims of the German terror."

1919 - El Paso Herald., April 7th, 1919
" ... to save from starvation six million Jews who are the helpless victims of the German Terror."

1919 - San Antonio Express, April 8th, 1919, page 15
"The American Jewish Relief Committee is endeavoring to save from starvation six million Jews who are the helpless victims of the German terror."

1919 - The Corsicana Daily Sun, April 9th, 1919, page 8
"THE AMERICAN JEWISH RELIEF COMMITTEE IS ENDEAVOURING TO SAVE FROM STARVATION SIX MILLION JEWS WHO ARE THE HELPLESS VICTIMS OF THE GERMAN TERROR"

1919 - San Antonio Express, April 9th, 1919, page 12
"At no other time in the history of the Jewish people has the need been so great as now. Six million of our brothers and sisters are dying of starvation. The entire race is threatened with extinction."

1919 - Daily Kentucky New Era, Wednesday, April 9, 1919, p.4-5
"The American Jewish Relief Committee is endeavouring to save from starvation six million Jews who are the helpless victims of the German Terror."

1919 - The Wellington Leader (TX), April 11th, 1919, page 1
"We wish to call the attention of our people to the great drive that is on to raise funds for the relief of the six million Jews who are starving in the war ridden districts of the east."

1919 - The Corsicana, Semi-Weekly Light, April 11th, 1919, page 5
"THE AMERICAN JEWISH RELIEF COMMITTEE IS ENDEAVOURING TO SAVE FROM STARVATION SIX MILLION JEWS WHO ARE THE HELPLESS VICTIMS OF THE GERMAN TERROR"

1919 - The Daily Courier (PA), August 4th, 1919, section 2, page 1
"APPEALS TO AMERICA TO ACT QUICKLY IF LIVES OF SOME SIX MILLION JEWS ARE TO BE SAVED ... The lives of some six million people are at stake."

1919 - The Fulton Patriot, September 3rd, 1919, page 4
WORLD JEWRY AT GREATEST CRISIS Leaders in America Striving to Save Race in Europe From Destruction. ... All told, many million Christians and more than 6,000,000 Jews in countries other than the United States are being directly aided by American Jewish relief funds."

1919 - New York Times, September 8th, 1919, page 6
"127,000 Jews Have Been Killed and 6,000,000 Are in Peril. ... 6,000,000 souls in Ukrainia and in Poland have received notice through action and by word that they are going to be completely exterminated - this fact stands before the whole world as the paramount issue of the present day."

1919 - The Fort Wayne News and Sentinel, September 17th, 1919, section 2, page 1
" ... six million Jews are dying of starvation and where vast numbers of them—innocent victims of the ravages of war—wander homeless, and in rags."

1919 - Trenton Evening Times (Trenton, NJ), Sunday, September 28, 1919, p. 4.
"Six Million Jews Reported Destitute in Eastern Europe."

1919 - Rushville Daily Republican, September 29th, 1919, page 4
"The thought that as I walk the streets of this properous and happy town there are 6,000,000 people in other lands without food, shelter or raiment is disturbing. ... When I read, as I have read all my life, of the persecution and slaughter of the Jews I am not proud of my own race or my religion. ... Six million people perishing!"

1919 - Tipton Tribune, September 29th, 1919, page 2
"The thought that as I walk the streets of this properous and happy town there are 6,000,000 people in other lands without food, shelter or raiment is disturbing. ... When I read, as I have read all my life, of the persecution and slaughter of the Jews I am not proud of my own race or my religion. ... Six million people perishing!"

1919 - Fort Wayne Journal Gazette, October 1st, 1919, page 4
"The thought that as I walk the streets of this prosperous and happy town there are 6,000,000 people in other lands without food, shelter or raiment is disturbing. ... When I read, as I have read all my life, of the persecution and slaughter of the Jews I am not proud of my own race or my religion. ... Six million people perishing!"

1919 - The Washington Democrat, October 2nd, 1919, page 1
"The thought that as I walk the streets of this properous and happy town there are 6,000,000 people in other lands without food, shelter or raiment is disturbing. ... When I read, as I have read all my life, of the persecution and slaughter of the Jews I am not proud of my own race or my religion. ... Six million people perishing!"

1919 - The Colorado Springs Gazette, October 2, 1919
"SIX MILLION JEWS FORM DAILY IN A BREAD LINE ... Six million Jews, men, women and children, a number as great as the population of the state of Illinois including Chicago, form the bread line in Europe every day."

1919 - Janesville Daily Gazette (WI), October 4th, 1919, page 4
" ... the Feast Day of Rosh Hashonah. It was not a feast day for some six million starving Jews of Europe because every day for the past four years has been a fast day for them. ... the five year fast that has been the lot of the 6,000,000 Jews in Europe."

1919 - Sheboygan Press (WI), October 4th, 1919, page 2
" ... the Feast Day of Rosh Hashonah. It was not a feast day for some six million starving Jews of Europe because every day for the past four years has been a fast day for them. ... the five year fast that has been the lot of the 6,000,000 Jews in Europe."

1919 - The Pittsburgh Gazette Times - Oct 5, 1919, section 6, p.16
"Still they live—these 6,000,000 helpless, starving, homeless people ... JEWISH WAR RELIEF COMMITTEE"

1919 - The Fort Wayne Journal-Gazette (IN), October 6th, 1919, page 3
"With six million of their population in absolute want, they are unable alone to render sufficient aid ... There are to-day to be found in the ten provinces of Russia, Poland and the fifteen provinces called the 'Pale of Settlement' six millions of these peaceful and law abiding people ... We do not see with our eyes the evidences of want and degradation into which six million Jews have been thrown suddenly through no fault of their own."

1919 - Indiana Weekly Messenger, October 9th, 1919, page 1 & 4
"Life for six millions in the shadow of death! ... Six millions mean what? ... Six million souls, old men, old women, and little children in Poland, Lithuania, Russia, Palestine, Glaicia, Turkey, Syria, Roumania, Greece, and Bulgaria are in imminent danger of starving to death this winter. ... The responsibility of maintaining life in these six million sufferers rests upon every man and woman in the United States ... Helping the Jews in their extremity is not helping the Bolsheviks," the speaker emphatically declared."

1919 - Schenectady Gazette, October 16th, 1919, page 15
"Today 6,000,000 Jews Are Facing the Darkest Days Ever Known in the Long History of the Race."

1919 - Titusville Herald, October 18th, 1919, page 4
"... Jewish Relief Fund ... Contribute Today, the Last Day and Help Save From Death Six Millions of Starving People."

1919 - San Francisco Chronicle, October 19th, 1919, page 18
"6,000,000 JEWS IN BREAD LINE, STRAUS WRITES. More Than Third of Entire Race in World Reduced to Despair in Europe. ... Six million Jews, out of the 16,000,000 in the world ... "

1919 - Cape Vincent Eagle, October 23rd, 1919
" ... there are six million people in other lands without food, shelter or raiment is disturbing. ... When read, as I have read all my life, of the persecution and slaughter of the Jews I am not proud of my own race or of my religion."

1919 - The American Hebrew, October 31st, 1919, page 582
"The Crucifixion of Jews Must Stop! From across the sea six million men and women call to us for help ... Within them reside the illimitable possibilities for the advancement of the human race as naturally would reside in six million human beings. ... In this catastrophe, when six million human beings are being whirled toward the grave by a cruel and relentless fate, only the most idealistic promptings of human nature should sway the heart and move the hand. Six million men and women are dying from lack of the necessaries of life [...] bigoted lust for Jewish blood. In this threatened holocaust of human life in the name of the humanity of Moses to six million famished men and women. Six million men and women are dying ... six million Jewish men and women are starring across the seas ... "

1919 - The Evening Tribune Providence, October 31st, 1919, page 11
"In the midst of our campaign for the relief of the six million Jews of Eastern Europe ... "

1919 - The Record (Johnson City, NY), November 1st, 1919, page 8
"There are 6,000,000 Jews in eastern Europe whom the war has left dependant upon America for aid."

1919 - Beatrice Daily Sun (NE), November 8th, 1919, page 2
"The territory which Mr. Hoover visited is but a part of that in which 6,000,000 Jews, suffers of war and war's equally horrible after-math, stand helpless today, ... The Need: SIX MILLION STARVING SOULS. Six million Jews in Poland, Lithuania, Galicia, Palestine, Turkey and Siberia are dying of starvation. ... These six million despairing souls are totally dependent on American generosity for the bare necessities of life. The Object: $35,000,000 for 6,000,000 LIVES"

1919 - Lebanon Daily News (PA), November 11th, 1919, page 2
"DISEASE AND STARVATION IN POLAND Lieut. Wright Tells of Half Starved People Clad in Rags BREAD OUT OF LEAVES Says 6,000,000 Face Death This Winter Unless Given Immediate Relief ... 6,000,000 Face Death ... Six million Jews in eastern Europe face death during the coming winter,"

1919 - Felix M. Warburg, New York Times, November 12th, 1919
"The Jews were the worst sufferers in the war. The successive blows of contending armies have all but broken the back of European Jewry and have reduced to tragically unbelievable poverty, starvation and disease about 6,000,000 souls, or half the Jewish population of the earth."

1919 - Gouvernur Free Press, November 12th, 1919
"Six Million Men and Women Are Dying... Won't You Help Them? ... From across the sea six million men and women call to us for help ... in six million human beings ... In this catastrophe, when six million human beings are being whirled toward the grave by a cruel and relentless fate ... Six million men and women are dying ... Six million men and women are dying ... Because of this war for Democracy six million Jewish men and women are starving across the seas ... Six million men and women of the race that helped do the greatest of the world's work are falling into the grave! ... six million famished men and women now turn mute eyes of appeal ... "

1919 - Chester Times (PA), November 28th, 1919, page 15
"There are 6,000,000 Jews in Eastern Europe whom the war has left dependent upon us for aid."

1919 - Ironwood News Record (MI), December 6th, 1919, page 9
"For First Time in History of Race, Jews Are Asking Others For Help. ... They are doing it because six million Jews in eastern and central Europe are actually in need of food at this moment. ... The problem of 6,000,000 starving men, women and little children ought to be the problem of all humanity."

1919 - Lima News (OH), December 24th, 1919, page 3
"Today Six Million Jews Are Facing the Darkest Days Ever Known In the History of the Race."

1919 - The Toledo News-Bee, December 27th, 1919
"Six Million Human Beings Are Suffering the Tortures of Disease, Hunger and Death ... American Jewish Relief Committee"

1920 - Van Wert Daily Bulletin (OH), January 5, 1920, page 3
"... Jewish relief work in Europe and Asia. There are six million Jews in the two continents who because of the war have been made destitute."

1920 - Manti Messenger (Utah), March 19, 1920
"Just now some six million of Jews, eight hundred thousand of them just children, are in imminent danger of starvation in eastern Europe."

1920 - Tulsa Daily World, April 11th, 1920, section B, page 14
"Today 6,000,000 Jews Are Facing the Darkest Days Ever Known in the Long History of the Race"

1920 - Utica Herald-Dispatch, April 20th, 1920, page 9
"Today 6,000,000 Jews Are Facing the Darkest Days Ever Known in the Long History of the Race."

1920 - New York Times, May 1st, 1920, page 8
"Just Another Drive, but the Lives of 6,000,000 Human Beings Wait Upon the Answer."

1920 - New York Times, May 2nd, 1920, page 1
" ... six million human beings, without food, shelter, clothing or medical treatment."

1920 - New York Times, May 3rd, 1920, page 11
"Your help is needed to save the lives of six million people in Eastern and Central Europe.

1920 - New York Times, May 5th, 1920, page 9
" ... to save six million men and women in Eastern Europe from extermination by hunger and disease."

1920 - New York Times, May 5th, 1920, page 19
"Six million starving, fever-stricken sufferers in war-torn Europe appeal to us."

1920 - New York Times, May 7th, 1920
" ... Jewish war sufferers in Central and Eastern Europe where six millions face horrifying conditions of famine, disease and death.

1920 - Reads a poster tied to a lampost in a photograph in the June 1st, 1920 edition (Vol. 1, No.3) of Jewish Relief News
"JEWISH WAR RELIEF CAMPAIGN (—) MAY 2 TO 9 (—) SIX MILLION STARVING SOULS"

1920 - Montgomery Advertiser (Montgomery, AL), Tuesday, June 29, 1920, p.5.
"Must They Pay the Price? Victims of the War—In the Path of Five Armies[.] Six Million Jews have been pillaged, plundered, mal-treated, driven about the country like cattle."

1920 - Ogden Standard Examiner, August 8, 1920, page 9
"PUSH DRIVE FOR JEWISH RELIEF ... Mr. Bond declared today that there are six million jews (sic) in eastern and central Europe whom the war has left dependent upon America."

1920 - The Ogden Standard-Examiner, August 20th, 1920
" ... there are six million Jews in eastern and central Europe whom the war has left dependent upon America."

1920 - New York Tribune, August 29th, 1920
"Six million Jews were made homeless by five years of foreign and domestic wars."

1920 - Brooklyn Daily Eagle, August 29th, 1920
"Six million Jews had been made homeless, starving, naked and plague ridden by five years of foreign and domestic wars that swept Poland."

1921 - Pamphlet apparently issued in 1921 for members of American Jewish Distribution Committee, filled with "Facts to Talk About" during public meetings.
"SHARE YOUR PLENTY WITH SIX MILLION WAR SUFFERERS WHO ARE STARVED, RAGGED AND PLAGUE-RIDDEN ... JEWISH WAR SUFFERERS ... The position of the Jew in Europe today is highly precarious. There are about six million Jews in Central and Eastern Europe outside of Soviet Russia"

1921 - New York Times, July 20, 1921, page 2
"BEGS AMERICA SAVE 6,000,000 IN RUSSIA. Russia's 6,000,000 Jews are facing extermination by massacre."

1922 - The New York Call, Monday, January 2, 1922, p.2
"JEWS MEET HERE JAN. 15 TO PLAN CAMPAIGN FOR $6,000,000 FOR RELIEF"

1922 - Lowell Sun (MA), March 22, 1922, page 14
"The Jews in the immediate district for which the aid of the war sufferers' campaign is to be given numbered over six million. ... Over 300,000 orphans, over 150,000 descrated women, over six million wandering Jews walking, crawling in their misery, feeding on the bark of trees and on herbs that drow by the wayside."

1925 - Lawrence Journal-World (Kansas), June 29th, 1925, p.5
"Jewish National Fund Invests Almost $6,000,000 in Palestine"

1926 - Encyclopaedia Britannica, 13th Edition, Vol. 1, 1926, page 145
"While there remain in Russia and Rumania over six millions of Jews who are being systematically degraded ..."

1926 - Canadian Jewish Review, April 9th, 1926, page 4
" ... the extreme need of 6,000,000 Jews in Russia and Poland,"

1926 - New York Times, April 21st, 1926
"In Heaven's Name, Arouse the Jews of America! New York's Quota: $6,000,000 United Jewish Campaign of New York"

1930 - The Daily Times (PA), March 15, 1930, p.5
"Will Raise $6,000,000 for Upbuilding Palestine and to Rehabilitate Jews of Eastern Europe"

1931 - The Montreal Gazette, December 28th, 1931, page 25
"SIX MILLION JEWS FACE STARVATION. ... FEARS CRISIS AT HAND. ... six million Jews in Eastern Europe face starvation, and even worse, during the coming winter."

1932 - Symphony of Six Million, film, April 29th, 1932
Directed by Gregory La Cava, written by Fannie Hurst (story), J. Walter Ruben, Bernard Schubert (screenplay), starring Ricardo Cortez.

1933 - New York Times, March 29, 1933
"It is now active in relief and reconstructive work in Eastern Europe where 6,000,000 Jews are involved."

1933 - New York Times, June 1st, 1933, page 6
"Dr. Margoshes said he had received a letter from the poet at Zurich a few days ago, stating that she had 'run away from the holocaust ... '"

1933 - The Jewish Western Bulletin, September 21st, 1933
"At this period of human persecution and of human destruction, when life, especially Jewish life has ceased to be of any value in the cruel land of bloody Germany, when the lives of hundreds of thousands are tortured and hang in the balance - during this holocaust ... "

1935 - New York Times, September 8th, 1935, page 26
"The preliminary session of the first world conference of the Federation of Polish Jews being attended by sixty delegates from eighteen countries representing 6,000,000 Jews ... "

1936 - Kabbalist & Zionist Jacob de Hass, B'nai B'rith Magazine: The National Jewish Monthly. Volume 50, Number 6, March, 1936.
"Six million Jews are affected by this omnipresent fear ("of another world war")"

1936 - New York Times, May 31st, 1936, page 14
"AMERICANS APPEAL FOR JEWISH REFUGE. The petition, in expressing the opinion of enlightened Christian leadership in the United States, favoring a larger Jewish immigration into Palestine, stressed the intolerable sufferings of the millions of Jews in "the European holocaust." ... to save these unfortunate millions from total annihilation ... "

1936 - The Jewish Western Bulletin, June 2nd, 1936, page 3
"Great Britain has it within her power to throw open the gates of Palestine and let in the victimized and persecuted Jews escaping from the European holocaust."

1936 - The Montreal Gazette, August 8th, 1936, page 5
"Delegates of 32 Nations Represent six million Hebrews."

1936 - Chaim Weizmann, speech before the Peel Commission on Palestine, King David Hotel in Jerusalem, November 25, 1936
"If one goes further afield (in Europe), and takes the Jewries of Rumania, Latvia, Lithuania, Austria, ones see practically the same picture, and it is no exaggeration on my part to say that today six million — I am not speaking of the Jews in Persia and Morocco and such places, who are very inarticulate, one hears very little of them — in that part of the world are doomed to be pent up in places where they are not wanted, ... These six million people to whom I have referred are condemned to live from hand to mouth. ... it affects the fate of six million people."

1936 - Chaim Weizmann, The Jewish Western Bulletin, December 11th, 1936, page 3
" ... where six million Jews are in a position which is neither life nor death."

1936 - New York Post, December 11th, 1936, page 19
"JEWISH RELIEF BOARD TO HEAR LEHMAN SUDAY Gathering to consider the crisis confronting 6,000,000 Jews in Central and Eastern Europe,"

1937 - Fitchburg Sentinel, February 17th, 1937, page 1 & 11
"Stating that "6,000,000 Jews in central Europe have neither life nor death because of extreme persecution," Mrs Emanuel Halpern of New York city, member of the national board of Hadassah urged ... Today there are 6,000,000 million (sic) Jews in central Europe who have neither life nor death."

1937 - The Jewish Criterion, September 3, 1937
"the position of the six million Jews of Central and Eastern Europe with whose existence the J.D.C." was "so vitally concerned."

1937 - Albany Evening News (NY), Wednesday, May 27, 1937, p.6.
"The plight of six million Jews in Europe is an outstanding indictment against the ruthlessness of dictatorships that have seen fit to utilize uncivilized and thoroughly un-Christian methods in the persecution of minorities, in order to gain their personal and selfish attainments. It is our duty to try to alleviate the perilous conditions of the youth in Germany and Poland, and it is the duty of every Jew to assist in raising the quota that is allotted to use [recte: us]."

1937 - Chaim Weizmann speech (4 Aug 37) at the World Zionist Conference, Switzerland, The Manchester Guardian (UK), Monday, August 9, 1937, p.13
"I told the Royal Commission [on Palestine, Nov 25, 1936] that the hopes of 6,000,000 Jews are centred on emigration. The I was asked: "But can you bring 6,000,000 to Palestine?" I replied: "No. I am acquainted with the laws of physics and chemistry and I know the force of material factors. In our generation I divide the figure by three, and you can see in that the depth of the Jewish tragedy—two millions of youth, with their lives before them, who have lost the most elementary of rights, the right to work." The old ones will pass, they will bear their fate or they will not. They are dust, economic and moral dust in a cruel world."

1937 - Jewish Western Bulletin, December 31st, 1937
"The number six million is often used to describe the Jewish population of Central and Eastern Europe."

1938 - New York Times, January 9th, 1938, page 12
"PERSECUTED JEWS SEEN ON INCREASE. 6,000,000 VICTIMS NOTED. ... Five to six million in all are today the victims of governmental anti-Semitism ... "

1938 - New York Times, February 23rd, 1938, page 23
"A depressing picture of 6,000,000 Jews in Central Europe deprived of protection or economic opportunities, slowly dying of starvation, all hope gone ... Now anti-Semitism has spread to thirteen European nations, and threatens the very existence of millions of Jews."

1938 - Sunday Times-Advertiser (Trenton, NJ), March 20, 1938
"The simple fact is that the fate of six million Jews in Poland, Roumania, Germany and Austria hangs in the balance."

1938 - The Jewish Criterion (Pittsburgh), April 1st, 1938, page 15
"I shall not comment upon the first except to remind you that six million Jews in Europe are struggling between life and death."

1938 - The Guardian, April 4th, 1938, page 11
"Six million Jews at this moment are trapped like rats ... "

1938 - New York Times, May 2nd, 1938
"The rising tide of anti-Semitism in Europe today, which has deprived more than 6,000,000 Jews and non-Aryans of a birthright ... "

1938 - The Jews of Central Europe by Jacob Lestshinsky, in Jewish Frontier, Vol. 5, No.6, June 1938, page 13
"EVERY NATION is morally compelled to face the bitter truth. This article is written not with the intent of bewailing our plight but in order to arrive at a factual calculation of the status of six million Jews in Central and Eastern Europe and of the prospects that exist in the lands of immigration."

1938 - Port Arthur News, June 9th, 1938, page 1
"It is estimated that nearly six million Jews have been driven from their homes by ruthless oppressors and stripped not only of their property but their right to work for a living."

1938 - Rochester Democrat and Chronicle, June 16th, 1938, page 18
"Judge Lewis urged American members of the race to swing moral and financial powers into the channels of evacuating some 6,000,000 Jews to Palestine."

1938 - Turtle Mountain Star, Rolla, North Dakota, October 6th, 1938
"Five or six million Jews, uprooted by dictatorship and tossed about by economic storms, may have to depend upon the development of the Holy Land, under British mandate, as a solution to their difficulties. But they face the hostility of the Arabs living there, whose economic and religious interests conflict with theirs. ... protects the settlers from the raiding Arabs. ... The Arabs Are Coming! ... The dreaded Mohammedan raiders have been sighted by a neighbor settler ... "

1938 - The Times, November 22nd, 1938
"Mass emigration of Jews to Palestine for two years and the formation of a Jewish national assembly was advocated by Sir John Haslam, M.P., in a message which he sent to a public meeting at the Kingsway Hall last night held by the New Zionist Organization. The message stated that the problem now involved some 6,000,000 Jews."

1939 - New York Times, January 15th, 1939, page 27
"Rabbi Silver wanted assistance to Jewish emigration safeguarded so that European governments would realize that 'it is impossible to evacuate 6,000,000 Jews.'"

1939 - The Binghampton Press, January 18, 1939, page 8
"IRISH PLEA — Deputy Robert Briscoe, only Jewish member of the Irish Parliament, arrives in New York city to begin a campaign to enlist Americans in a plan for resettling approximately 6,000,000 Jews in Palestine."

1939 - The Canadian Jewish Chronicle, January 27th, 1939
"Only six million Jews remain at the moment safe. But they will have to carry the burden."

1939 - The Daily Sentinel (Rome, NY), January 31st, 1939, page 11
"Does Mr. X really believe that if Hitler gains control of Spain with the help of Franco, that life in Spain will be any different than it is today in Germany, Austria and Czechoslovakia where 6,000,000 Jews have been murdered, ..."

1939 - Chaim Weizmann, The Palestine Post, February 14th, 1939
"The fate of six million people was in balance ... "

1939 - The Jewish Criterion, February 17th, 1939, page 20
"The fate of six million people is in the balance. ... They supported their stand with a declaration that Jews never needed unrestricted immigration to Palestine as much as at present, with 6,000,000 Jewish refugees seeking a haven."

1939 - The Evening Independent, February 22nd, 1939, page 1
"6,000,000 Helpless. ... there are six million Jews in Europe today fighting desperately against intolerance and despair. For them the support of the united appeal is crucial."

1939 - The Jewish Western Bulletin, March 3rd, 1939
"SIX MILLION JEWS OVERSEAS FACING PERSECUTION, DISCRIMINATION AND ECONOMIC RUIN ... "

1939 - The Advocate, March 17, 1939. The Advocate: America's Jewish Journal. Vols. 95-98. 1939, page 47
"If the six million Jews that constitute the European scene were removed from the lands where they now dwell the forces of brutality and ruthlessness would still continue to operate."

1939 - The Jewish Criterion, April 7th, 1939, page 4
"Not in Hitler's Hands, In Yours ... The Fate Of Six Million European Jews"

1939 - The Jewish Criterion, April 7th, 1939, page 33
" ... six million Jewish people who are in dire need today."

1939 - The Jewish Criterion, April 14th, 1939, page 4
"Recent events in Central Europe have brought to 6,000,000 the total number of Jews in Central and Eastern European countries affected by anti-Semitic activities"

1939 - The Jewish Criterion, April 14th, 1939, page 6
" ... whether our 6,000,000 fellow countrymen will live or die ... More than a million refugees, starving, tortured, fear-dazed, have been dragged from their homes, separated from their families, expelled from their countries. Five million more, await with horror the moment this misery will strike them ... "

1939 - Chester Times (PA), April 20th, 1939, page 6
"Six million Jews are the stepchildren of fate in Europe today."

1939 - The Jewish Criterion, April 21st, 1939, page 15
" ... the distress and suffering of 6,000,000 Jews in Europe. ... HAVE YOU DONE YOUR DUTY? THE UNITED JEWISH FUND NEEDS YOUR HELP FOR THE HELPLESS 6,000,000 IN EUROPE

1939 - The Jewish Criterion, April 28th, 1939, page 3
" ... 6,000,000 fellow Jews who are in distress today."

1939 - The Niagara Falls Gazette, May 1st, 1939, page 15
"ITHACA RABBI SAYS FREE JEWS MUST AID HARASSED BRETHREN Six Million Jews Are Refugees, Members of B'nai B'rith Lodges Told. Three-eights of the world's Jewish population of 16,000,000 persons, or approximately 6,000,000 persons, are potential refugees. ... Rabbis Fischoff declared that the 6,000,000 Jews or Christians of Jewish extraction are in real of imminent danger due to the spread of totalitarianism in the world."

1939 - The Jewish Criterion, May 5th, 1939, page 9
"PLIGHT OF 6,000,000 ... The 6,000,000 European Jews ... "

1939 - The Jewish Criterion, May 12th, 1939, page 7
"The year of 1939 is the year of the most critical struggle of 6,000,000 European Jews."

1939 - Western Morning News (Devon, UK), June 8th, 1939, page 6
PLIGHT OF THE UNWANTED ... A little more than a month ago Lord Winterton, chairman of the Evian Committe, declared that the potential problem concerned five or six million Jews."

1939 - Ohio Jewish Chronicle, June 30th, 1939, page 1
"The crisis which Jews of Europe are facing today envelopes far more than six millions souls."

1939 - Contemporary Jewish Record, Vol. 2, No.5, September-October 1939, p.3 (Published by the American Jewish Committee)
" ... the coming ward would be the annihilation of the six million Jews in East and Central Europe."

1939 - The Sentinel (Chicago, IL), October 12, 1939.
" ... the coming ward would be the annihilation of the six million Jews in East and Central Europe."

1939 - The Jewish Criterion, October 13th, 1939, page 2
" ... the coming ward would be the annihilation of the six million Jews in East and Central Europe."

1939 - Samuel Broncheck, Syracuse Herald-Journal, October 30th, 1939, page 15
"... in Poland alone there are 6,000,000 Jews who are now subject to Hitler's persecution or Stalin's "communizing.""

1939 - The Southern Israelite, November 28th, 1939
" ... the coming ward would be the annihilation of the six million Jews in East and Central Europe."

1940 - Mason City Globe Gazette (Iowa), January 20th, 1940, page 16
"Mr. Tannenbaum stressed that Palestine offered the only solution to the six million Jews who are homeless, starving and sick in central and eastern Europe today."

1940 - The Southern Israelite, May 3rd, 1940
"Almost six million Jews find themselves on the brink of starvation and extermination. Their only hope is the help which the Jews of America can extend to them. The success of the United Jewish Appeal will determine their fate.

1940 - Robert W. Schiff, Ohio Jewish Chronicle, May 17th, 1940, page 1
"Over six million Jews in Central and Eastern Europe are faced with great danger of annihilation as the result of the sweep of war and oppression."

1940 - New York Times, June 25th, 1940, page 4
"Six million Jews in Europe are doomed to destruction, if the victory of Nazis should be final. ... The chances for mass emigration and resettlement of European Jewry seems to be remote, and European Jews face the danger of physical annihilation. Even the 4,000,000 Jews under Soviet rule, although free from racial discrimination, are not safe in the event of a final Nazi victory."

1940 - Joplin News Herald (Missouri), June 25th, 1940, page 3
"Six million Jews in Europe are doomed to destruction."

1940 - Ohio Jewish Chronicle, June 28th, 1940, page 1
"The lives of six million Jews have been uprooted by the psychopathic, political ambitions of totalitarian leaders."

1940 - The Palestine Post, July 1st, 1940, page 6
"Nor must we despair that six million Jews will forever lose trace of their historic heritage."

1940 - The Jewish Criterion, November 15th, 1940
"J.N.F. to Raise $6,000,000 for Palestine During Coming Year. ... the Jewish National Fund of America voted to raise $6,000,000 for the holy land's war needs during the coming year."

1941 - Salt Lake Tribune, February 5th, 1941, page 2
"Nazis Prepare Blueprint Of All World Enslaved ... Later, the survivors will all be sent to whatever "reservation" the Nazis finally decide to set up—all six million of Europe's Jews."

1941 - New York Times, October 2nd, 1941
" ... as to avoid the likelihood of another holocaust."

1941 - The Jewish Criterion, November 28th, 1941
"6,000,000 Jews in Europe Look to America for Aid, Says Warburg. Fully six million Jews in Europe ... "

1942 - The Jewish Spectator, Volume 7, 1942, page 53
"Now, too, the unspeakable tragedy of almost six million Jews under nazi domination is not considered sufficiently important to be discussed."

1942 - The Palestine Post, November 1st, 1942
"The Chief Rabbi, who spoke on behalf of Empire Jewry and Jews of the United Nations, as well as of all six million Jews in Europe, said that the deliberate extinction of the whole house of Israel was being carried out by Hitler's sadists and quislings on a scale beyond compare even in the annals of Israel."

1942 - New York Times, December 13th, 1942, page 21
"Rabbi Israel Goldstein in Temple B'nai Jeshurun, Eighty-eighth Street, near Broadway, declared: "Authenticated reports point to 2,000,000 Jews who have already been slain by all manner of satanic barbarism, and plans for the total extermination of all Jews upon whom the Nazis can lay their hands. The slaughter of a third of the Jewish population in Hitler's domain and the threatened slaughter of all is a holocaust without parallel."

1942 - The Courier-Mail (Brisbane), December 19th, 1942
"GERMAN HORROR CRIMES; ALLIES PROMISE JUSTICE. Statements issued simultaneously in London, Washington and Moscow, told at German barbarity and of proof of the Nazi determination to exterminate Jews. ... Hitler's decision to exterminate the Jews ... It is estimated that there are between five and six million Jews in Occupied Europe ... Nazi Slaughter House. ... Hitler's oft-repeated intention to exterminate the Jewish people in Europe."

1942 - Barrier Miner (Australia), December 23rd, 1942
"Mr. Silverman suggested that Australia and Canada could each absorb 6,000,000 Jews. ... MOST ARE DOOMED ... The Jewish Congress declares that 2,000,000 Jews have been exterminated so far."

1942 - The Massacre of a People: What the Democracies Can Do, 1943. The following article is an except from "Let My People Go," a pamphlet written on Christmas Day, 1942, in London.
"Of the six million Jews or so who were living at the outbreak of the war in what is at present Nazi-occupied Europe, a high proportion—between one and two million—have been deliberately murdered by the Nazis and their satellites. ... Unless something effective is done, within a very few months these six million Jews will all be dead,"

1943 - American Zionist Emergency Council (from 1970: American Zionist Movement) - "Palestine" - Volumes 1-5 (1943)
"Jewish civilian casualties will be close to six million ... "

1943 - "Debates: House of Commons, official report, volume 5, Canada, 1943
"I should like to read a bit from a pamphlet entitled "Let My People Go," written by Victor Gollancz: Of the 6,000,000 Jews or so who were living at the outbreak of the war in what is at present nazi-occupied Europe, a high proportion -say between one and two million- have been deliberately murdered by the nazis and their satellites. ... within a very few months these six million Jews will all be dead ... "

1943 - The Canberra Times, January 25th, 1943
" ... Jews are being subjected as part of Hitler's plan to exterminate six million Jews in occupied Europe."

1943 - The (London) Times, January 25th, 1943
"They note further that the extermination already carried out is part of the Carrying into effect of Hitler's oft-repeated intention to exterminate the Jewish people in Europe, which means in effect the extermination of some 6,000,000 persons in the territories over which Hitler's rule has been extended.

1943 - Lowell Sun (MA), January 26th, 1943, page 9
"Of these six million Jews, almost a third have already been massacred by Germans, Rumanians and Hungarians and the most conservative of scorekeepers estimate that before the war ends at least another third will have been done to death."

1943 - The Guardian, January 27th, 1943, page 4
"A PROPOSAL TO SAVE THE JEWS ... Some six million lives remained in imminent peril."

1943 - The Canadian Jewish Review, January 29th, 1943, page 1
" ... Hitler really intended to exterminate 6,000,000 more human beings."

1943 - The Zionist Review, January 29, 1943, page 3
"A statement calling on the Government to declare its readiness to co-operate in finding an immediate refuge for all Jewish refugees from death at the hands of the Nazis has been issued by the Archbishops of Canterbury (Dr. Temple), York (Dr. Garbett), and Wales (Dr. Green). ... They note, further, that the extermination already carried out is part of the carrying into effect of Hitler's oft-repeated intention to exterminate the Jewish people in Europe, which means in effect the extermination of some 6,000,000 persons in the territories over which Hitler's rule has been extended.

1943 - Hull Daily Mail, January 30th, 1943, page 3
"Mr Gollancz states that of the six million Jews living at the outbreak of war in the present Nazi-dominated areas, between one and two million have been deliberately murdered."

1943 - Contemporary Jewish Record, Vol. 6 No. 1, February 1943 (Published by the American Jewish Committee)
"Suddenly, during the summer of 1942, world public opinion was shocked out of its lethargy by the realization that the Nazis had decreed the complete extinction of six million Jews and that a third of the victims had already perished."

1943 - Western Morning News (Devon UK), February 5th, 1943, page 2
"There are some who hold that Hitler's set purpose is the extermination of the Jews in Occupied Europe, numbering about six millions. ... We can neither accommodate six million Jews here nor dictate the attitude of other Governments."

1943 - Ben Hecht, Reader's Digest, February 1943, page 108
"Of these 6,000,000 Jews almost a third have already been massacred by Germans, Rumanians and Hungarians, and the most conservative of the scorekeepers estimate that before the war ends at least another third will have been done to death."

1943 - New York Times, March 2nd, 1943
" ... appalling is the fact that those who proclaim the Four Freedoms have so far done very little to secure even the freedom to live for 6,000,000 of their Jewish fellow men by readiness to rescue those who might still escape Nazi torture and butchery."

1943 - The Canadian Jewish Review, March 14th, 1943, page 8
"Two millions of Jews have already been done to death. Six millions in mid-Europe are sentenced to die."

1943 - Wallace R. Deuel, Cumberland Evening Times, March 23rd, 1943, page 1
"The Nazis set out in the beginning to destroy whole peoples. They expected to obliterate from the earth not less than 6,000,000 Jews as a beginning."

1943 - The Advertiser (Adelaide, Australia), May 15th, 1943
" ... the possibility of the complete wiping out of six million Jews if something is not immediately done to secure a harbour of refuge."

1943 - The Canadian Jewish Review, August 13th, 1943, page 8
"Two million Jews out of Europe's six million have already been slaughtered by the Nazis; most of the remainder seem doomed,

1943 - Toledo Blade, August 27th, 1943
"3,000,000 Jews Left In Europe - 5,300,000 Reported To Have Perished. Europe's Jewish population has been reduced from 8,300,000 to 3,000,000 during the 10 years the Nazis have been in power, says the Institute of Jewish Affairs."

1943 - July 21, 1943, Ben Hecht's show 'We Shall Not Die' staged at the Hollywood Bowl, California
"The Germans murdered 2,000,000 Jewish civilians without trouble; the Germans are murdering the surviving 4,000,000 Jewish civilians of Europe without trouble."

1943 - The Yorkshire Post and Leeds Mercury, Tuesday, December 7, 1943, p.1.
"Hitler had pronounced a sentence of death on the 6,000,000 Jews of Europe. The Nazis had already murdered two millions by machine-gun and lethal chamber, by torture and hunger, and were now busy exterminating the third million."

1944 - The Palestine Post, January 23rd, 1944
"Only a handful of Polish Jews survived the extermination. They were now either with the partisans in the forests or living as Crypto-Jews. The death toll was six million, they declared."

1944 - The Polish Jewish Observer (Section of The City and East London Observer), Friday, February 4, 1944, p.1.
"6,000,000 JEWS SLAIN? THAT the [sic] appalling total of 6,000,000 Jews have been slaughtered in Poland was testified to by the two members of the Polish underground movement who have just arrived in Palestine. [...] The figure of 6,000,000 slain, it was said, included Jews deported to Poland from various European countries."

1944 - The Montreal Gazette, March 18th, 1944, page 11
"There must be insurance that the Germans, unrepentant as they were after the last war, do not prepare another holocaust."

1944 - Rabbi Michael Dov Ber Weissmandl, May 15th, 1944
"And you - our brothers in Palestine, in all the countries of freedom, and you, ministers of all the kingdom - how do you keep silent in the face of this great murder? Silent while thousand on thousands, reaching now to six million Jews, were murdered. And silent now while tens of thousands are still being murdered and waiting to be murdered? Their destroyed hearts cry to you for help as they bewail your cruelty. Brutal you are and murderers too you are, because of the cold-bloodedness of the silence in which you watch."

1944 - Rabbi Michael Dov Ber Weissmandel, May 31st, 1944
" ... heads of government and radio must announce what was done to our people in the slaughter house of Belzec, Malkinia (Treblinka), Sobibor, and Auschwitz. Till now six times a million Jews from Europe and Russia have been destroyed."

1944 - Moshe Sharett future Israeli PM, June 15th, 1944. Quoted in a telegram (same day) from the British High Commissioner of Palestine to the Colonial Secretary in London (TNA Kew, T 161/1167)
"Shertok derived the impression that enemy motives were mixed, and might be all or any of the following:- (a) the purely realistic object of getting various commodities from us through the only medium of exchange available; (b) hope that by obtaining some credit in our eyes for not slaughtering 2,000,000 Jews they would get away with the fact that they had slaughtered 6,000,000 Jews already;"

1944 - United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers of America Convention Proceedings, September 25th-29th, 1944
"WHEREAS: History records no parallel to the bestial cruelties inflicted on the Jewish people of Europe by the Nazis and their satellites, whose coldly calculated program of extermination of all European Jews very nearly succeeded, almost six million Jews having been murdered in cold blood ... "

1944 - Youngstown Vindicator (Ohio), November 27th, 1944
"A five-volume "black book" containing a documentary record of the German massacre of approximately 6,000,000 European Jews is being prepared by the state publishing house."

1944 - The Pittsburgh Press, November 28th, 1944, page 5
"Six Million Jews Listed Slaughtered. A five-volume "black book" containing a documentary record of the German massacre of approximately six million European Jews was being prepared today by the State publishing house. ... The work was under the general editorship of Ilya Ehrenburg and the editorial board included Poet-Playwright Konstantin Simonov, Writer Vsevold [Vsevolod] Ivanov and Poetess Vera Imber.

1944 - The Leader, November 28th, 1944
"Russian "Black Book" lists German crimes. The first volume of a five-volume Russian "black book" recording the documentary form of the German massacre of approximately 6,000,000 European Jews has been completed by the Soviet state publishing house ... The five-volume work is under the general editorship of Ilya Ehrenburg, noted Soviet writer and war correspondent, with an editorial board that includes poet-playwright Kanstantin [Konstantin] Simonov, writer Vsevold [Vsevolod] Ivanov and poetess Vera Imber. Editors of the work -which will be published in both Russian and English in press runs of hundreds of thousands of copies- estimate from data now available that the Germans killed between 5,000,000 and 6,000,000 Jews in Russia, Poland and western Europe. They believe an additional 500,000 now are being murdered in Hungary."

1944 - The Palestine Post, November 28th, 1944
"SIX MILLIONS MURDERED. The Soviet State Publishing House is preparing the publication of another "Black Book," a documentary record of the German massacre of approximately six million European Jews. ... According to the Soviet editors, the Germans killed between five and six million Russian, Polish and Western European Jews, and an additional half million are being murdered in Hungary now."

1944 - The Jewish Criterion, December 1st, 1944
" ... 5,500,000 Jews have been killed in Germany and German-occupied territories since the outbreak of the war. ... Yes, the Germans murdered close to six million Jews ... "

1944 - President of the Chester Zionist Organization, Rabbi Naphtali Frishberg, Chester Times (PA), December 2, 1944, p.6
"With six million dead abroad, how can the Council on Judaism ..."

1944 - Springfield Republican (Springfield, MA), Monday, December 4, 1944, p.2
"6,000,000 JEWS DEAD, RESULT OF THE WAR ... The war losses of world Jewish [sic], including those killed in action, now total more than 6,000,000, Dr Nahum Goldman told members of the executive committee of the New England division of the American Jewish congress today."

1944 - Nahum Goldmann, Jewish Western Bulletin, December 8th, 1944
" ... apart from Jewish losses in combat service, 5,500,000 Jews have been killed in Germany and German-occupied tesritories [recte: territories] since the outbreak of the awr [recte: war]. These figures exceed the number anticipated even by the most pessimistic. ... Yes, the Germans murdered close to six million Jews ... "

1944 - Ilya Ehrenburg, Soviet War News, December 22nd, 1944
"In the regions they seized, Germans killed all Jews, from the old folks to infants in arms. Ask any German prisoners why his fellow countrymen annihilated six million innocent people ... "

1945 - Ilya Ehrenburg, Soviet War News, January 4th, 1945
"In regions they seized the Germans killed all the Jews from the old folk to infants in arms. Ask any German prisoner why his fellow countrymen annihilated six million innocent people and he will reply quite simply : "Why, they were Jews."

1945 - New York Times, January 8th, 1945
"6,000,000 JEWS DEAD. The Jewish population in Europe has been reduced from 9,500,000 in 1939 to 3,500,000. Of the 6,000,000 European Jews who have died, 5,000,000 had lived in the countries under Hitler's occupation."

1945 - New York Times, February 11th, 1945, page 10
"1,200,000 Jews survived of the 6,000,000 who had been under German rule during the war, and that most of them were eager to come to Palestine."

1945 - New York Times, February 17th, 1945
"Dr. Joseph Schwartz, European director of the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee, estimated today that 500,000 of Europe's 6,000,000 Jews had escaped destruction by emigration and that only 1,000,000 to 1,500,000 of Europe's 6,000,000 Jews were now left on the Continent."

1945 - Ilya Ehrenburg, Pravda, March 1, 1945
"The world now knows that the Germans killed six million Jews. They killed all Jews - from infants at the breast to the aged."

1945 - Ilya Ehrenburg, Soviet War News, March 15, 1945
"The world now knows that Germany has killed six million Jews."

1945 - Joseph Thon, president of the National Organization of Polish Jews in America, March 22nd, 1945
"I accuse the whole German people that in the years 1939 to 1945 they slaughtered upward of 15,000,000 men, among which there were 6,000,000 Jews. ... The German people murdered, in cold blood, in excess of 6,000,000 European Jews, among them over 3,000,000 Polish Jews."

1945 - Ilya Ehrenburg, The Advertiser (Adelaide), March 27th, 1945
" ... the Germans tortured the last handful of Jews. The Germans killed six million Jews -all the Jews of Poland, Hungary, the Ukraine, Lithuania, Byelo-Russia, West Europe and of course Germany."

1945 - Army News (Darwin, Australia), April 11th, 1945
"NAZIS HAVE MURDERED SIX MILLION JEWS. Of a population of 16 million Jews in the world before the war, more than six million had been murdered by the Nazis."

1945 - New York Post, April 21st, 1945, page 9
"The Nazi leaders felt they had nothing to fear. "They murdered six million Jews, but nothing was done. In the words of the Czech delegate to the London War Crimes Commission,"

1945 - Stephen S. Wise, May 1945; Friends Indeed: The Special Relationship of Israel and the United States, Norman Finkelstein, 1998, page 33
"The Christian world, and I include England, of course, in the Christian world, suffered six million of the people of Jesus of Nazareth to die in a most horrible manner. The Christian world owes the Jews some reparation."

1945 - New York Times, May 2nd, 1945
" ... estimated that only 1,000,000 of 6,000,000 Jews in Europe in 1939 were still alive."

1945 - The Pittsburgh Press, May 13th, 1945
"Nazis Destroy six million Jews. ... Of the eight million Jews living in Germany and German occupied countries before the war, 6,200,000 have died from either execution, cruel treatment or starvation, according to latest figures compiled by Jewish welfare organisations here."

1945 - New York Times, May 20th, 1945, page 7
" ... seemingly endless streams of former "slaves" from all parts of Europe and by the huge cantonments of liberated victims of Nazism. More than six million of them have been liberated ... "

1945 - Dr. Jacob Robinson (lawyer), June 11th (12th), 1945; Nuremberg: The Last Battle, David Irving, 1996, page 61
"How great were these losses, inquired [Robert H.] Jackson, seeking a figure to use at the coming trial. 'Six million,' responded Dr. Robinson, and indicated that the figure included Jews in all Nazi-occupied lands 'from the Channel to Stalingrad' ... Jackson noted that day: 'I was particularly interested in knowing the source and reliability of his estimate as I know no authentic data on it.'"

1945 - Chaim Weizmann, president of the (World) Zionist Organisation, speech in London at the World Zionist Congress on August 1st, 1945. "An Answer to Mr. Bevin by Chaim Weizmann" Jewish Spectator, Vol.X, No.5, September 1945
"The Jewish people, with its six million victims in Europe,"

1945 - David ben Gurion, speech in London at the World Zionist Congress on August 2nd, 1945. Footage viewable at criticalpast.com
"The six million slaughtered Jews."

1945 - The Canadian Jewish Chronicle, August 3rd, 1945, page 7
"This commission is gathering all materials, documents, and photographs illustrating the martyrology of Polish Jews and of the Jews of all Europe. This proves that the Germans murdered six million European Jews in Poland."

1945 - Alexander L. Easterman, Political Secretary of the World Jewish Congress, letter to the head of the British war crimes trials Brigadier General Henry Shapcott, 8th August, 1945, in UK NA: WO 309/424, p.102B.
"As I inform you, the World Jewish Congress has been in relations with the United nations war Crimes Commission and with various Governments on the question of the Jewish aspect of war crimes. In formal memoranda and in many discussions with these authorities, the Congress has expressed their views upon the specific character of the crimes committed against the Jews in Europe by the Nazi Government of Germany and their satellites, crimes which have culminated in the extermination, as a result of a calculated and planned conspiracy against the Jewish people, of some six million Jewish men, women and children."

1945 - The Canadian Jewish Review, August 10th 1945, page 1
"while the Jews, who had lost 6,000,000 victims to Nazism in Europe,"

1945 - The Times (London), August 14th, 1945
" ... some 6,000,000 men, women, and children - were put to death by the Nazis and their satellites."

1945 - The Evening Post (New Zealand), August 21st, 1945, page 5
"Two-fifths of all Jewry-nearly 6,000,000 men, women and children-were butchered."

1945 - The Guardian, September 5th, 1945, page 8
"Altogether, it is estimated that six million Jews have been killed."

1945 - The Canberra Times, September 6th, 1945
"SIX MILLION JEWS KILLED BY GERMANS. Throughout the war the Germans killed 6,000,000 Jews, the number left in Europe being approximately 1,600,000 ... most surviving Jews desired to emigrate to Palestine. The agency plans to send six groups of six men each to help Jews in German camps. ... It is planned to erect a monument on the summit of Mount Scopus to commemorate the Jews who died. It will bear the names of all the 6,000,000, including soldiers, partisans and ghetto fighters. All the Jewish cultural documents and religious objects left in Central and Eastern Europe are to be collected in Palestine."

1945 - The Evening Post (New Zealand), September 6th, 1945, page 7
"The Germans killed 6,000,000 Jews during the war, said Mr. Eliahu Dobkin, head of the Jewish Agency's immigration department, on his return to Jerusalem from Central Europe."

1945 - Jewish Western Bulletin, September 7th, 1945, page 43
"Almost 6,000,000 Jews were wiped out during these years,"

1945 - Jewish Western Bulletin, September 7th, 1945, page 47
"Throughout the world there is a growing indignation over the barbarism and the unspeakable cruelty of the mass murders of six million Jews by the Nazis,"

1945 - New York Times, September 17th, 1945
"Six million Jews have died as martyrs and their blood cries up from the ground."

1945 - Dr. Joseph Tenenbaum President of the American Federation of Polish Jews, The Jewish Criterion, September 21st, 1945, page 7
"Due to German atrocities and Allied neglect six million Jews have been slaughtered."

1945 - American Zionist Emergency Council, New York Post, September 27th, 1945
"It was our very unhappy conviction all along that the responsibility for the extinction of six million Jews in Europe was not Hitler's alone. The Entire Christian world shares that responsibility."

1945 - The Canadian Jewish Review, September 28th, 1945, page 8
"We mourn six million dead adults, the aged, the young and the little Jewish children. We remember them."

1945 - September 30th, 1945. At a Zionist rally at Madison Square Gardens NYC, a huge banner approximately 50ft long and 2.5ft high, hung above the stage on which the speakers addressed the audience. The banner said:
"AREN'T 6,000,000 JEWISH DEATHS ENOUGH?"

1945 - New York Post, October 1st, 1945, page 15
"While "we waited patiently for the fulfiliment of Great Britain's pledges to the Jewish people," they said, "six million Jews were killed in Europe. ..." ... Aren't 6,000,000 Jewish Dead Enough?"

1945 - The Evening Post, October 2nd, 1945, page 7
"The 6,000,000 Jews who had been killed ... "

1945 - The Manhattan Zionist Club, New York Post, October 3rd, 1945, page 21
"For years we waited patiently for the fulfilment of Great Britain's pledges to the Jewish people, We waited in vain. In the meantime, six million Jews were killed in Europe,"

1945 - The Canadian Jewish Chronicle, October 5th, 1945, page 6
"You now propose to continue to keep these doors shut against our survivors, after six million of our people perished, for whose death your country is not without blame."

1945 - The Chester Times, October 10th, 1945
"It was our very unhappy conviction all along that the responsibility for extinction of six million Jews in Europe was not Hitler's alone. The entire Christian world shares that responsibility."

1945 - The Observer, October 14th, 1945, page 5
"At the entrance to its office, a large poster asks the searching question: Six million Jews have been murdered-world, where is thy conscience?"

1945 - The Canadian Jewish Review, October 26th, 1945, page 12
"They look about and behold the tragic suffering of Israel during the past decade in which six million Jews perished and they seen to see Israel as a defeated nation."

1945 - The Observer, November 2nd, 1945, page 10
"The horror of the Middle Ages with all forms of torture was brought down upon European Israel with the result that six millions of Jews perished."

1945 - Lebanon Daily News (PA), November 9th, 1945, page 11
"Six million Jews have perished—victims of the Nazis"

1945 - Peter Gay, The Gateway (Uni. of Alberta), November 9th, 1945, page 2
"... six million Jews have been murdered and the few remaining ones are denied a haven ..."

1945 - Chaim Weizmann, president of the WZO, speech on November 19th, 1945, at the convention of the Zionist Organization of America in Atlantic City. 'Weizmann's Rebuke to Bevin', The Jewish Chronicle, November 30, 1945, p.1.
"after the slaughter of six million Jews, the remnant of a million and a half implore the shelter of the Jewish homeland? What a sorry epitaph the new declaration of policy seeks to write over the graves of six million of our dead. The soil of Europe is saturated with their innocent blood."

1945 - The Indian Express (Madras) - Nov 19, 1945, p.4
"The world will have no peace as long as Jews have no opportunity to determine their destiny in their own land. We know from bloody experience that mass murder of six million Jews was made possible only because of their homelessness and statelessness."

1945 - Randolph Churchill, Winston Churchill's son, Daily Boston Globe, November 22nd, 1945, page 9
"Six million Jews have been murdered in the past six years and the problem of finding a home for the two or three million European Jews who remain is one of urgent importance."

1945 - Herbert Seliqmann, Chief of the Jewish Telegraphic Agency Bureau in Washington, The Jewish Criterion, November 30th, 1945, page 7
"... after the massacre of six million Jews in Europe ..."

(last updates: Sept 11, 2014: 10 add.; Sept 17, 2014: 1 add.; Oct 12, 2014: 4 add)



I will add, in closing, that if i can find an archived article online, so could anyone if they want to read any entire article.


----------------------------------------------------------


Trish, you asked me what i thought it could mean that 6 million was mentioned (as if i would know).
However, i found this link in the same site which shows someone trying to explain why.
http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/kabbalistic-significance-six-million.html


[B]Babe,
xoxo

.
.
.
.
.
.

[trish]

In post 38, I proposed three hypotheses. The linguistic usage hypothesis (which IMO is the credible one-case solved), the time traveler hypotheses ( which could appeal to someone who believes in Thor, the alien...how would I know?) and the Jehovah hypotheses (which the religiously inclined might like). Frankly I don't see anything that requires much in the way of explanation. If you do, then please enlighten us with your own hypotheses (not some nut job blogger with ministryofthetruth or truthteachings etc as his organ title)

[Laphroaig]

Dahlia

Stop doing your "research" on the internet, where if you look hard enough you'll find "evidence" to back up any point of view you choose. Instead, travel to Austwitz and experience it for yourself. Then ask yourself the question, was it all a hoax? Stand inside the gas chamber at Austwitz as I did and I promise you, you will know the answer.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Look there are MANY interesting articles in the webpage. I DO NOT DENY ANYTHING HAPPENED!!!!!
!

GET IT??????????????????????


DO YOU F*CK$@G UNDERSTAND??????????

[Laphroaig]

Sorry, Dahlia

The internet is full of bullshit. There's even a website dedicated to proving that the Earth is flat rather than round...

Try finding your evidence in the real world...Get it?

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

TRYYYY TO READ MY WORDS THAT IN POSTED IN THAT LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGG POST.

YOU ARE NOT SORRY!!

I DO NOT HAVE TO GO TO POLAND TO UNDERSTAND!!
MAYBE SOME DIM WITS NEED TO DO THAT.
I DON'T NEED TO DO THAT!

I, strongly, doubt you even took the time to read what i wrote.

[Laphroaig]

No, I didn't read it all and therein lies your problem. Your posts are far too long and any point you make is buried.
You also failed to get my point, the internet is full of crap and if you search for long enough you can find "evidence" for anything. It just depends whether you believe any of it or not.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

If you can't follow the discussion , STAY OUT OF IT.

BUT DO NOT SIT THERE PASSING JUDGEMENT ON ME BECAUSE THE POST IS TOO LONG FOR YOUR WEEEE SHORT ATTENTION SPAN.

GO LOOK AT TITS, COCKS AND ASS PHOTOS, IT'S ALL YOU'RE HERE FOR.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

TRYYYY TO READ MY WORDS THAT I POSTED IN THAT LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGG POST...


....

[Laphroaig]

I haven't accused you of anything, other than naivety at trusting internet sources of information. Believe what you like, I prefer sticking to facts.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

In post 38, I proposed three hypotheses. The linguistic usage hypothesis (which IMO is the credible one-case solved), the time traveler hypotheses ( which could appeal to someone who believes in Thor, the alien...how would I know?) and the Jehovah hypotheses (which the religiously inclined might like). Frankly I don't see anything that requires much in the way of explanation. If you do, then please enlighten us with your own hypotheses (not some nut job blogger with ministryofthetruth or truthteachings etc as his organ title)

Hi Trish,

Oddly enough, "the nut job blogger's" page is full of Jewish authors.


And you do not believe aliens exist??
And you read history?

Babe,
xoxo

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

...I prefer sticking to facts.


AGAIN. By that very statement you are insinuating that i believe only in hogwash and that i can't tell real from fake.
Do you KNOW how many sites i looked at BEFORE deciding on THAT ONE?
NO!!
You think i am just stupid, a fool who believes in Peter Pan because some kid believes in it. Or Mary Poppins because there was a film AND...OMG...THERE SHE WAS with her magic umbrella? GASP!!

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND words on a page.

GO READ what i wrote AND STOP WASTING MY TIME with your INDIRECT accusations.

Furthermore I DID NOT ASK YOU for what YOU believe in.
When i want that, i'll "beat" it out of you with a lubed hand or two depending how big you are.

[trish]

Oddly enough, I'm having a conversation with you, not theministryoftruth. What's your hypotheses. If it coincides with something you found at theministryoftruth, then put in your words.

[AshlynCreamher]

theministryoftruth

:shock:

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Yea, i know Ash, it's what THEY call themselves.

It's not my webpage.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Oddly enough, I'm having a conversation with you, not theministryoftruth. What's your hypotheses. If it coincides with something you found at theministryoftruth, then put in your words.


Hi trish,

You can never get me to say something i do not believe in.

And i am, now, certain you are trying to do that by repeating your same questions over and over again. I've answered your questions and my answers remain the same.
I know you want me to say things DID NOT happen, when i know they did, and i have expressed that they did over and over and over again.

The whole point of this thread was to ask THE FORUM to discuss the initial ten newspaper articles, and NOW, because of people causing me to search, it's become 271 articles - all saying the same things, all written by Jewish reporters and rabbis.





Originally Posted by trish
My questions to you, Dahlia, are:
Even if there were twenty articles or two hundred, or a thousand...
what do you think it proves?
I am not sure, which is why i posted the video and suggested a discussion.

What to you expect to learn?
I hope expect to learn something, from either intelligent people, like yourself, or by having to search for answers, myself, when trying to research something someone says to the things discussed in this thread.

Is there something you already believe that you want debunked or confirmed?
I am not sure what to believe after seeing that video of actual newspapers from before the war.
I will add to that previous comment in the quote
Especially after seeing those 271 quotes from newspaper articles and books written by rabbis, and Jewish reporters.







...In my early teens, i read a book called, Treblinka, which was about that death camp in Poland.
I saw all the photos of the dead bodies piled in heaps, and read the personal accounts of prisoners who managed to survive....

...I never once said that i denied it happened...

...In my early 20s, i had a Polish friend whose mom had numbers tatooed on her forearm and she told me what happened. So, i know it happened, i've read about it, and watched countless documentaries, went to see and Schindler's List. I've listened to some of Hitler's speeches from those days (on youtube)...




None of that explains why there are now (i discovered) a whopping 271 quotes from newspapers and books written by Jewish authors and rabbis. I am certain there were more but they were not documented because the technology just wasn't there in the 1800s - i assume.

Are you going to ask me, again, what i believe after 4 or 5 more posts?
I am asking others to discuss the topic of the thread, and no one does. They only accuse me of "this and that", and you keep asking me over and over again as if i never answered you, what my hypotheses are.

Let me ask you a question, trish.
What exactly are you trying to get me to say or admit?
I ask THAT because You KEEP asking the same thing.

I only wanted to see a discussion so i could watch and learn something, and i find myself targeted - being highly insulted by disgusting comments, degraded, defamed, accused of saying, thinking and/or feeling horrible things about the Holocaust which i have never said or ever felt.

Some discussion this turned out to be!
It's more like a lynch mob and a trial.



Babe,
xoxo

[broncofan]

Hi Dahlia,
I am going to go against my previous word to ask you a question. I went to that site and see the quotations. But have you looked up any of the newspapers (and other sources) in question or are you just relying on the author of the site to excerpt them accurately? For instance, did you go to a New York Times archive to see what the November 1st 1905 article said? How do you know that the author is accurately quoting the sources he listed?

[broncofan]

I googled a bunch of the newspapers and looked for some of the articles that were listed. The only thing that popped up were other sites posting the same series of excerpts. Many of these sites have names like Holohoax, or fancy titles like the jew who revealed the Holocaust lie. The funny thing is Dahlia cannot even admit that she is denying the Holocaust.

I do not know whether those articles are genuine. But I also know that Dahlia did not either when she posted the link. She was on the site when I posted that last question to her and posting in this section but did not respond. Why is she so ready to believe all of those excerpts are genuine?

The only thing worse than a Holocaust denier is a person who denies they're denying the Holocaust while they're denying the Holocaust.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

I found two of them quite easily.

Why can't you find any?

Did you pick some old, obscure paper that no longer exists anymore, or something lame like that?

And, again, you accuse me of shyte that i never claimed.

Shame on you. Shame shame, shame.

You can't discuss anything unless it pleases you, bronco.
I have sympathy for you. Must be your old age.

The truth is, you searched for nothing and you know it.
YOU wouldn't waste your time because you are too busy patting yourself on the back and strutting around this forum like peacock lol.

I really thought you were a grande guy for a while, but i see you are nothing like that.

Shame on you for MOSTLY trolling in my threads of late.

[broncofan]

I asked you what evidence you had that the 271 articles on the site you "discovered" were genuine. Sourcing two of them is not proof. I just find it odd that you are willing to take the site owner's word for it.

The reason so many people take what you're saying as Holocaust denial is because the unstated logic seems to go as follows: "several dozen Jews used the word Holocaust and the figure six million repeatedly in the early 20th century. They were waiting for an opportunity to claim that six million Jews were killed and call it a Holocaust. However no such atrocity actually took place."

What you don't realize is that people do this sort of thing all the time. They imply something because they are nervous about saying it. But why do you think so many people have come into the thread to affirm certain facts about the Holocaust? Because they think you're denying it took place.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

http://servv89pn0aj.sn.sourcedns.com/~gbpprorg/obama/nytimes_ww2/

http://servv89pn0aj.sn.sourcedns.com/~gbpprorg/obama/nytimes_ww2/jewmadeup.jpg

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

http://servv89pn0aj.sn.sourcedns.com/~gbpprorg/obama/nytimes_ww2/666t.jpg

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

YOU just need a working brain Bronco.

It must be my high IQ

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

You only have STOP accusing innocent people of shyte and use the grey matter that you were born with, bronco.

It took me about five minutes to find those.

WHAT'S WRONG with your brain?

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

http://servv89pn0aj.sn.sourcedns.com/~gbpprorg/obama/nytimes_ww2/ofdfut.jpg

[broncofan]

http://servv89pn0aj.sn.sourcedns.com/~gbpprorg/obama/nytimes_ww2/

http://servv89pn0aj.sn.sourcedns.com/~gbpprorg/obama/nytimes_ww2/jewmadeup.jpg
Well at least the mask has slipped off. OMG. These are some interesting links.

A bunch of anti-semitic quotations, several quotations about the Holocaust being a big lie with a description why it's a lie, a jpg called jewmadeup, then what appear to be New York Times articles. A couple of them are actually from the Holocaust era. Many of these do not correspond to the supposed New York Times articles from your other post. For instance, there is not an article from November 1, 1905 in this cache of articles. Why are you always relying on sites that compile articles instead of finding the archives yourself?

Is it fair to say at this point that you're denying the Holocaust or are we still denying that?

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

I asked you what evidence you had that the 271 articles on the site you "discovered" were genuine. Sourcing two of them is not proof. I just find it odd that you are willing to take the site owner's word for it.

The reason so many people take what you're saying as Holocaust denial is because the unstated logic seems to go as follows: "several dozen Jews used the word Holocaust and the figure six million repeatedly in the early 20th century. They were waiting for an opportunity to claim that six million Jews were killed and call it a Holocaust. However no such atrocity actually took place."

What you don't realize is that people do this sort of thing all the time. They imply something because they are nervous about saying it. But why do you think so many people have come into the thread to affirm certain facts about the Holocaust? Because they think you're denying it took place.

People like YOU do what YOU DO, all the time. YOU refuse to look, listen and learn because all you do is accuse.

I apologize when i err.
YOU try to cover up your dirt (leaving the place reeking of your filthy shyte words), and then you disappear, and then re-emerge a bigger fool - with more of the same ugly accusations.
SHAME ON YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!! G-d is WATCHING YOU!!!!

HOW DARE YOU!!

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

The articles i posted or Genuine articles.

[trish]

Hi trish,

You can never get me to say something i do not believe in.

And i am, now, certain you are trying to do that by repeating your same questions over and over again. I've answered your questions and my answers remain the same.
I know you want me to say things DID NOT happen, when i know they did, and i have expressed that they did over and over and over again.
...
I am asking others to discuss the topic of the thread, and no one does. ... you keep asking me over and over again as if i never answered you, what my hypotheses are.

Let me ask you a question, trish.
What exactly are you trying to get me to say or admit?
I ask THAT because You KEEP asking the same thing.I simply want you to say what you believe, or at least to propose your own hypothesis. You have never answered that particular question. I put forward my own hypothesis and defended it. You seem to find it unsatisfactory, but provide no counterargument nor do you offer a hypothesis of your own. Others HAVE discussed this issue; right here in this very thread. You have not. Tell us what do YOU believe these articles mean. Beyond getting us to DISCUSS this non-issue, what is your interest here? What do you think the issue is?

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

I don't create the sites.
YOU asked for the articles saying you can't find them. Well, i found them.

LOOK at what i posted into Hung Angels. That is what i present. I posted the first link to SHOW YOU Where i got the articles that come from NEWSPAPERS.
I CAN NOT be responsible for any anti-Semitic links posted in that site. You asked for proof of where i find the AUTHENTIC newspaper articles, i showed you. There are many places. I couldn't find the place i found the first two links on the other HA page.

IF YOU want to cherry pick anti-Semitic links and articles and THEN blame ME - for what YOU clicked on - we can see who's mask came off.

What a sicko you are, Bronco. YOUR behavior is DISGUSTING!

GET OUT!!

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Trish, AGAIN, i have already stated my confusion about the articles.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

I don't create the sites.
YOU asked for the articles saying you can't find them. Well, i found them.

LOOK at what i posted into Hung Angels. That is what i present. I posted the first link to SHOW YOU Where i got the articles that come from NEWSPAPERS.
I CAN NOT be responsible for any anti-Semitic links posted in that site. You asked for proof of where i find the AUTHENTIC newspaper articles, i showed you. There are many places. I couldn't find the place i found the first two links on the other HA page.

IF YOU want to cherry pick anti-Semitic links and articles and THEN blame ME - for what YOU clicked on - we can see who's mask came off.

What a sicko you are, Bronco. YOUR behavior is DISGUSTING!

GET OUT!!


....

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

I don't create the sites.
YOU asked for the articles saying you can't find them. Well, i found them.

LOOK at what i posted into Hung Angels. That is what i present. I posted the first link to SHOW YOU Where i got the articles that come from NEWSPAPERS.
I CAN NOT be responsible for any anti-Semitic links posted in that site. You asked for proof of where i find the AUTHENTIC newspaper articles, i showed you. There are many places. I couldn't find the place i found the first two links on the other HA page.

IF YOU want to cherry pick anti-Semitic links and articles and THEN blame ME - for what YOU clicked on - we can see who's mask came off.

What a sicko you are, Bronco. YOUR behavior is DISGUSTING!

GET OUT!!

I added to my previous post.

[broncofan]

I didn't claim the articles were not genuine. Only that you did not vet them before you claimed they were genuine. Which is why you linked to meta-sites that collect articles as proof rather than actual archives.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

You can't be satisfied unless you are hating. Go away.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

NOW IM PISSED!!! YOU PISSED me OFF!!! EFF YOU!! EFF OFF! Loser!!

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Even a puppy will bite you when you hurt it>even a kitten will scracth you when you hurt it.

Get lost!!!!! Lay off the coffee, you freak.

[broncofan]

http://servv89pn0aj.sn.sourcedns.com/~gbpprorg/obama/nytimes_ww2/jewmadeup.jpg
Read this article. It was written after the Holocaust ended.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Trish, AGAIN, i have already stated my confusion about the articles.

That means, i don't know what to think.

Not everything is bull crap on the net.



Babe,
xoxo

[trish]

Trish, AGAIN, i have already stated my confusion about the articles.

After eight pages and this silliness still confuses you? Why? What do you find confusing about this? Some preWWII writings mention the word "holocaust" (which at the time meant "sacrifice" and did not yet refer to the genocide perpetrated by the NAZIs). So what? Explain exactly, in your own words, what you think is confusing about that?

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Hi trish,




For the word holocaust as a burnt offering:
The persecuted Russian Jewish people were not "offering anything to God in a burnt offering on an alter" as they were being persecuted, and beaten, so THAT meaning of word, holocaust, i think can not be assigned to fit into the meaning of the newspaper article author's words.
It's just strange that the word was mentioned before the war even started.

And i had asked you if you were suggesting if the rabbi authors in the articles were using "holocaust" to say that the Jewish people were offering up their homes and belongings in exchange for their "freedom". I did disagree with that.
Did you answer that, by the way? I must have missed that.

You're asking me WHAT I THINK in my own words?
Well, as i have said, and said, again, i am not sure what to think.
Not good enough? Sorry, honestly.
I won't be rushed into a making a hasty decision when i am NOT SURE what to think about it.
There has not been much of a discussion, really.

I've basically been accused and accused and accused. Not by you, but the "time traveler"?...and the "Jehova's hypothesis" comment?... seemed rather insincere, and the ridiculing Valiant Thor comments were below the belt.
It seems if any one disagrees with you or has a different belief, you ridicule them for it. That's not fair. That's rather ignorant behavior, trish. Sorry to be the one to tell you.

And then the bronco makes his big "comeback" coming in with again with MORE accusations. Pfffffft! What jerk - a schmuck.

The majority of this thread is you asking the same questions over and over again and me saying what i've written in my responses over and over again.

I never said in this thread, 'Please ask me what i think.'
I asked for a discussion. Not to be tried as if in a court.

A 'discussion" is not only you offering your personal opinion, and it's case closed.
And then bronco coming in, foaming at the mouth.

I see no REAL discussion with the many members of the forum like i thought it would be. I was planning to sit back and read.

I've been defending myself, basically, against ruthless, and false accusations!!!

Bronco is over there reloading his bad attitude. Looking for more ways to INSULT- his own character by being how he is.
Must be unmarried with a rotten, self-centered attitude like that. Who'd want it? He acts like the Strict Orthodox but he has no idea what his Holy Book says. What a fake.

Thanks,
Babe,
xoxo

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

After eight pages and this silliness still confuses you?

Trish,

The silliness comes from you repeating your questions after i address them to the best of my ability. Think about it.


Re-asking the same questions will not produce different responses from me.

What is that saying again?...
"The sign of insanity is the repetition of an action which produces the same futile results". Something like that.



Babe,
xoxo

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Read this article. It was written after the Holocaust ended.

I am not your secretary. Okay?

If i can find things like i have already done - anyone can - even a dopey person like you. Change your meds!

I have found various archived articles from before 1945 and it took me less than a few minutes to find them, upon YOUR VERY insincere, challenging, hateful request.
I've read them, and posted them, all within only a few minutes.
BUT NOOOO not good enough when i find one from 1945?

You like to split hairs, eh, freakofan?
Get OUT!!
Don't let the the swinging door hit your ass on the way out. I don't want a dirty skid-mark. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

YOU see what i do, you FREAK? Eh?
When i disapprove of a low class post, i make it PUBLIC - NOT like what you do by hunting down my posts and voting them down like you did in the Happy Holiday thread, and when you hunted down my other posts, too.
Hypocrite!! Backstabber!!

You are supposed to try to be better in life as a Jewish man. NOT WORSE. You are so far gone - you are a LOST soul in the world. AND you will be a lost soul on the Day when that Day arrives when God judges you and your hatred.
Your soul is full of hatred!!! HATER!!!
GRRRRR~!!


I hate posting comments like this!!!!!
Stay away from my threads. Such a petty little man you turned out to be!!


http://www.merc.ca/vbulletin/images/smilies/mondieu.gif

[trish]

Trish,

The silliness comes from you repeating your questions after i address them to the best of my ability. Think about it.


Re-asking the same questions will not produce different responses from me.

What is that saying again?...
"The sign of insanity is the repetition of an action which produces the same futile results". ...Simple machines respond in the same way to the same input. People, who are capable of thinking and learning, modify their behaviors and beliefs.


And i had asked you if you were suggesting if the rabbi authors in the articles were using "holocaust" to say that the Jewish people were offering up their homes and belongings in exchange for their "freedom". I did disagree with that. Yes, I answered that. No, it was not being suggested that the Jewish people were “offering” up their homes, their livelihood and community as a sacrifice, but rather that their loss was a sacrifice nevertheless. It’s not an outlandish use of language to say, for example, that many lives were sacrificed before we learned how to inoculate against smallpox. You can quibble that it’s not exactly accurate were one to insist on a literal reading of the word “sacrifice,” but it can’t be denied that figuratively such usage is common. The same with holocaust. You can argue that not all the homes were burnt and you can say they weren’t sacrificed to Jehovah. But in that time (before the word “holocaust” referred to the genocide committed by the NAZIs) it could easily have been used figuratively to mean a sacrifice of almost any sort.

An antisemite sorts through three decades of newspaper articles and cherry picks a mere three hundred articles (which, as far as we know, have not been vetted by any independent source) which mention the number “sixty million” or the word “holocaust,” and somehow you are snowed by this?! It’s soooo confusing for you? It’s time to tell us why? What is it about the facts and logic here (I’m not asking for a personal story) that you find so alluring, mysterious or in need of explanation?

BTW Truly, if someone is willing to take seriously the existence of a space alien named Thor, then I figure that same someone is open-minded enough to consider the possibility that information can be sent from the future back through time. Indeed, I would speculate that same someone might be open to the possibility that the 271 newspaper articles are indeed evidence of just that conjecture.

[Laphroaig]

Dahlia, you've had no "real discussion" on this thread for three simple reasons.

1. Your information sources are at best misrepresentative and at worst completely fake.

2. Trish has answered your questions on page 3, post 25 and several times since, including the post above, to the satisfaction of everyone else except you. The question remains, why you can't accept her explanation?

3. You attack anyone who posts an opinion that you don't agree with on the thread, including me for daring to suggest that the internet may not be the universal source of truth you think it is. Yet, you accuse everyone of attacking you. Double standards?

Icedentally, how do you expect to start a discussion without asking what people believe in? Discussion is all about personal opinions.

[broncofan]

BUT NOOOO not good enough when i find one from 1945?

I asked you whether you vetted the articles or took the word of the person who excerpted them, who many healthy skeptics would believe had a motive not to be honest. You did not answer whether you had done that in advance but instead frantically started doing it. The issue was not whether the articles are genuine, but whether you assumed they were without checking independent sources.

To show your diligence you post an article as an example that is from 1945, at the tail end of the Holocaust. How does an article reporting 6 million casualties from the Holocaust prove that the number 6 million was used before the Holocaust? The fact is it does not. You hadn't read the article and did not know its contents. This was one of something like five articles you posted and were not even aware of what it contained. The person who copied the article thought it was proof that the Holocaust was made up, or he would not have saved it as jewmadeup.jpg.

It is also relevant that the only places these articles are located are extremely anti-semitic, Holocaust-denial websites. Every other person who thinks the number 6 million being used before the Holocaust signifies something is making the argument that the Holocaust is a lie. Yet you continue to pretend you are not saying that.

I've also answered your question, though obliquely. The articles refer to a number of things. When they refer to Eastern European atrocities, they use the word holocaust, in lower case letters. Many of the articles refer to the Kishinev pogrom where homes were literally burned. These types of pogroms took place for several decades around that time. When the articles refer to 6 million they were often referring to existing population estimates, such as six million Jews in Russia.

But it's a waste of time to talk about the articles unless you have a point to make. Saying you find it confusing is not an answer.

[broncofan]

In addition to answering your question, I've also tried to head off any conclusion to be drawn from the conspiracy angle by pointing out that among Holocaust scholars the number six million does not have any special significance. It is an average. The studies that were done on the Holocaust by men such as Raul Hilberg were exhaustive studies, filling books over a thousand pages long. They did not posit round figures...but numbers like 5.1 million or 5.7 million or 6.2 million. But I have a question for you.

Are we to believe that in addition to just having an innocent question about newspaper articles that list the number six million, you also think Jewish people get too much attention for the Holocaust (as you posted in the other thread), are primarily responsible for the trans-atlantic slave trade, and are responsible as a group (rather than as individuals) for producing degrading songs? And you so innocently stumbled onto this information on a harmless site crafted by merely curious people who write articles like The Jew Joke Al Franken, or How Israel Did 9/11, or The Jews who Run Hollywood? There's a name for this type of activity. It's called anti-semitism.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Hi everybody,

I do not appreciate certain people trying to dominate this thread with FALSE accusations.
I can't apologize when people misquote me and take mo y words or intentions out of context .
I really hurts how i was called an anti-Semite. I have said nothing against Jewish people as a race or the religion they follow. And moderators should do their part to remove such false accusations. However, anything goes in this area of the board, it seems.
I know who i am, and i will never be told who and what i am by biased people who refuse to look passed their...lol never mind lol.

Whatever happened in Europe during history definitely happened. There is doubt about that.
Whatever happens in my neighborhood (and my city and country) happens, also. There is no doubt about that, either.
Whatever happens on this forum, has happened and will continue to happen as the days go by. That is incontestable.
Life happens!

So, again, whatever "happened" in Europe - happened.
I will not, can not, say what had happened over there, because i was not there when it, whatever "it" might be, happened.
Neither were the large majority, if any at all, of the members of this forum here, were there during the war.

The video i posted in the first post of this thread, has blown all of my perceptions, and beliefs clearly out of focus. I do not know WHAT to believe anymore.
I grew up believing what many believe simply because there was no way to dig deep into the matter for truths. Times certainly have changed in that respect, with the instant access to information provided by the internet.

What do i believe?... i still am not quite sure. I do know that humans can be a ruthless, conniving, viciously nasty, despicable, murderous species of beings who would kill their own brother for the most stupid reasons imaginable like, who "stole" the last beer or the last cigarette in the dwelling - not to mention religious dogma which is a very serious human affliction.

I truly believe that all western humans are vile and that is, in large part, because of the obsession with religious dogma - who is right or wrong?...who should live or die?...who deserves a country or who should be removed from their homeland and WHY?....who burns people alive?...who plans to bring down skyscrapers?...who is an anti-Semite and who is not?...who is informed and who is stupid, ignorant, or simply naïve?...and most of all, who chooses to close their eyes to it all to protect a "system of beliefs" called, lies - and that goes for ANY system of beliefs that exist within any branch human knowledge

It's a very nasty business conducted by the nastiest individuals on this planet - marionette politicians controlled by evil minded, greedy, ruthless, and extremely wealthy puppet masters who could do so much more for humanity than they do than simply wanting to control it.
And please, don't ANY ONE think that because one is of a certain religious faith that they are "saved" from man's ruthlessness - the hammer will fall on everyone except the chosen few of the elite. So be aware of that. If you think being Muslim, Jewish, Christian or whatever faith you use to is going to protect you from the hammer of the elite, you are the naïve ones.
The quest for power is the root of all the evil that exists.
Propaganda, and everything related to it, controls the minds of once inherently good people and turns them all against each other in the worst ways.
That's not "life in the big city", that is sadly just life.

I've mentioned what i have read, and my Polish friend's mom, and the stories i've heard people saying, all throughout my existence about what had happened.
I, like everyone else, had very naïvely, accepted it all as fact just because so many people were sayings the same things.
What i've only just realized during this thread and the by comments is that all those people (people i've personally met in my life) were/are all reading the "same, one book" and all the reports were based on what that "same, one book" says.
The "same, one book" is to say, the "oft repeated opinions" passed down throughout history.

Well, i've been digging around the net and listening and watching videos (documentaries, lectures) from various people, Jewish and non-Jewish alike, and i've learned that there are other versions of what had "happened".
I've recently watched videos from people who are called anti-Semites (although they, themselves, self-identify as, revisionists.
I've watched videos of Holocaust survivors, former Nazi SS men, historians on both sides, rabbis, priests, the GOCC, a rabbi who converted to Orthodox Christianity etc.
I've seen proofs which clearly point at facts - not popular facts, or course, because such facts incite the same attitudes from either very naïve, or very ignorant, and/or even very arrogant people who are so quick to eagerly ridicule, criticize and defame anybody who expresses different beliefs.
It's as if everyone has to believe in what everyone else says to believe in - or else it's, dumm da dummdum!!

Maybe these people agree with everything that is said by the masses simply out of, perhaps, respect for their elders, or respect for a particular political agenda from which they will, one day, (maybe) benefit - somehow.
Maybe they just don't care...you know?...so long as the useless television works and the beer store is open - that's all that matters. You all know who you are.
I don't drink nor do i watch television.
I am always on a quest for knowledge and i do keep an open mind. And i do have a good sense of judgement when it comes to what i read and watch. I really don't need any one lecturing me on what i watch or believe in. You are in NO position to tell me WHO and what i am - unless you have a hidden agenda.
I don't!

It's come to the point that in our modern world, the word, anti-Semite, is thrown around more than baseballs or footballs are thrown around.
It is, as if, it has become a tool to stop any intellectual, intelligent conversations from taking place and/or opinions from being expressed.
Clear examples of this, what i would call a "crime", are very visible within this very thread.
It's like being bullied, and no one is allowed to stop it.

Do i like modern Jewish people?...yes, i do. Always have.
It's just too bad some of them consider any non-Jewish people to be socially below worthless animals.
That is teaching which is taught in the Babylonian Talmud.
AND i can admit that some humans CAN be like worthless animals - that, is very true. However, i digress.

However, history can not be ignored, like it or not!
It's called history for a reason.
I really can't understand how lies become history and how history can become lies. All people want is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
When lies become a truth (or vice versa), that is a clear indication of just how much clout money has in the controlling minds of selfish, uncaring, greedy, power-hungry human beings (or maybe they are NOT human beings). Lol! Can any one REALLY say who is a human or is not a human on our planet? Good luck with that one! I am sure the "know-it-alls" will all chime in with their responses to that comment.

In closing:
Every day it becomes clearer to me how stories can be passed off as truth or lies in these days of instant information, and yes, misinformation, too.
It seems very suspicious to me how facts can be called lies simply because those facts happen to piss off any race of people simply because they were taught, all of their lives, to believe a completely different story for completely different reasons, other than telling the truth.

Have a chuckle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYZBKqemQrU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8t9JEROAzQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV7m6IIN_tI


Have a great day.
Babe,
xoxo

[broncofan]

I really hurts how i was called an anti-Semite. I have said nothing against Jewish people as a race or the religion they follow. And moderators should do their part to remove such false accusations. However, anything goes in this area of the board, it seems.

Dahlia's view on censorship. Keep the Holocaust denial but erase any trace of someone calling it that. Keep the anti-semitism but don't allow anyone to say that's what it is. What a web of hypocrisy and convoluted logic you spin. The only person who has accused anyone of anything without evidence in this thread is you. Here's a person who can be told her perception of what is happening is wrong by more than a half dozen people and still think she's right.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Ciao Bron-cofa,

Now, i-a make-a you a-nice-a paisano. eh.

All joking aside.
Could you enlighten me and the forum, in your opinion, as to why all throughout history, the Jewish people were persecuted so darned much?
Why?
I honestly, never thought about his before.
Seeing as i have earned your undivided attention, i would greatly appreciate your or any other Jewish person's view on that question.


Thanks

[broncofan]

Ciao Bron-cofa,

Now, i-a make-a you a-nice-a paisano. eh.

All joking aside.
Could you enlighten me and the forum, in your opinion, as to why all throughout history, the Jewish people were persecuted so darned much?
Why?

This is a history question...my knowledge of world history is not great. I have read about the Holocaust and about the Armenian genocide but beyond these events I can't speak to the cultural or religious pressures that led to anti-semitism. I would guess there are both Jewish and non-Jewish people who can provide a better answer than I can.

As you have pointed out elsewhere, other discrete groups of people have been persecuted as well and the reasons for such persecution are various and context dependent. The blame for such persecution always lies with the persecutor or it would not be a good name for what is being described.

[Stavros]

Originally Posted by Dahlia Babe Ailhad http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/images/ca_serenity/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=1578250#post1578250) Hi everybody,
I truly believe that all western humans are vile and that is, in large part, because of the obsession with religious dogma - who is right or wrong?...who should live or die?...who deserves a country or who should be removed from their homeland and WHY?....who burns people alive?...who plans to bring down skyscrapers?...who is an anti-Semite and who is not?...who is informed and who is stupid, ignorant, or simply naïve?...and most of all, who chooses to close their eyes to it all to protect a "system of beliefs" called, lies - and that goes for ANY system of beliefs that exist within any branch human knowledge


Dahlia, your gloomy view of the human race does not sit well with historical fact, even in the case of the Third Reich. At the same time that the Nazis and their friends were rounding up the European Jews and sending them to their death, other Europeans were doing what they could to save them - Raoul Wallenberg, as Sweden's special envoy in Budapest saved thousands of Jews by issuing them with travel documents; Nicolas Winton organised the kindertransport which brought 669 Jewish children from Czechoslovakia to the UK; an underground network of Protestants in the industrial north-west of Germany put their own lives at risk by taking in Jews in their homes, or in safe houses -all of the above actions being motivated by common humanity and in the case of the Germans, by religious duty.

Martin Luther King was a Christian minister, it was his own 'Christian dogma' that formed a large part of his moral argument for Civil Rights, a struggle that to some extent he led to victory.

Give it some thought -the advances in medicine that have lessened pain and prolonged life; the inventions that make cooking and travelling cheaper and more efficient than it once was; the books, the films and the music that give us joy.

As humans, we aren't all as bad as you think.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Stav,

That is MY opinion, period. I think the things i think based on what i see, on the whole.

Yes, there are always saints and helpers to those who need help. There are good people in the west, of course.
They are not the WHOLE of the Western world - they are only a few in the big picture of DEATH and GREED.

When i said "all humans in the western world", i meant the ones in POWER of the views of their society.

People pass by a guy laying half-dead dying in the subway or on the street because we are so used to seeing homeless drunks sleeping on teh street or in subways that we can no longer tell if the guy is half-dead or just seeping of the alcohol.

I hope what i wrote, here, has clarified my previous comment.

You are very picky, you, and i should really be a little more exact with my choice of words.

Thanks for pointing that out - but i think what i meant was a given. Maybe i am mistaken about it being obvious what i had meant when i said "all of the Western word".

Medicines, i am highly against. That is GREED at work, fundamentally.

[trish]

Dahlia, have you ever listened to yourself?


So, again, whatever "happened" in Europe - happened.
I will not, can not, say what had happened over there, because i was not there when it, whatever "it" might be, happened.
...
I do not know WHAT to believe anymore.
...
I've seen proofs which clearly point at facts
...
I really don't need any one lecturing me on what i watch or believe in.
...
It's come to the point that in our modern world, the word, anti-Semite, is thrown around more than baseballs or footballs are thrown around.
It is, as if, it has become a tool to stop any intellectual, intelligent conversations from taking place and/or opinions from being expressed.
Clear examples of this, what i would call a "crime", are very visible within this very thread.
It's like being bullied, and no one is allowed to stop it.
...
Do i like modern Jewish people?...yes, i do. Always have.
It's just too bad some of them consider any non-Jewish people to be socially below worthless animals.
...
Can any one REALLY say who is a human or is not a human on our planet?


The subject is the Jewish people in Europe during the first half of the twentieth century and you’re telling us you don’t know and we can’t know––at least on the grand scale––what happened there. You tell us in one breath that you don’t know what to believe and in the same breath you tell us you’ve seen proofs and that you know facts the rest of us deliberately ignore. What those facts are, you are telling...no matter how many times you’ve been asked. You know these things because you’ve researched the internet and watched YouTube videos. In the next breath you bemoan how easily misinformation can be passed off as truth in the instant information age. You don’t know what to believe, but you don’t need anyone suggesting what you might read or watch. Yet you have plenty of suggestions for what we should watch and discuss. You think you’re being bullied because we actively engage and criticize your posts. We ask you to respond with what you think in your own words. But no, you actually accused us of trying to trick you into saying something you don’t believe. I hate to inform of this, but Babe, you’re paranoid delusional. You think contributors here should be warned, censored, removed or banned because they find your alleged ignorance and your use of anti-semitic tropes and anti-semitic materials anti-semitic?! To top it off you ask, “Can anyone REALLY say who is a human or is not a human on our planet? WTF? You’re not racist, but apparently in your head it’s a real possibly that some of us aren’t human. Thank the stars you’re deciding who is who isn’t on the basis of YouTube videos and not race.

[Laphroaig]

Well said Trish.

Dahlia, you claim to have spoken to a Polish friend who had a relative in a concentration camp and yet you choose to believe you tube clips over someone who has actually been through the experience and you are still "confused".

When I started reading through this thread I thought you were just naive, now I think you either enjoy making provocative posts and then playing the "martyr" or that Broncofan was right about you all along.

In the words of Sir Walter Scott - "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!"

In this case, Dahlia, the only person you are deceiving is yourself.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

I've ALREADY addressed this.

Are you, also, a Jewish person? There Jewish people in Scotland, also.

And Bronco is TOTALLY wrong about me. AND so is anyone who wants to try to stop me from asking questions by calling me an anti-Semite or Holocaust Denier.
That is just so BELOW the belt, it's disgusting.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Dahlia, have you ever listened to yourself?



The subject is the Jewish people in Europe during the first half of the twentieth century and you’re telling us you don’t know and we can’t know––at least on the grand scale––what happened there. You tell us in one breath that you don’t know what to believe and in the same breath you tell us you’ve seen proofs and that you know facts the rest of us deliberately ignore. What those facts are, you are telling...no matter how many times you’ve been asked. You know these things because you’ve researched the internet and watched YouTube videos. In the next breath you bemoan how easily misinformation can be passed off as truth in the instant information age. You don’t know what to believe, but you don’t need anyone suggesting what you might read or watch. Yet you have plenty of suggestions for what we should watch and discuss. You think you’re being bullied because we actively engage and criticize your posts. We ask you to respond with what you think in your own words. But no, you actually accused us of trying to trick you into saying something you don’t believe. I hate to inform of this, but Babe, you’re paranoid delusional. You think contributors here should be warned, censored, removed or banned because they find your alleged ignorance and your use of anti-semitic tropes and anti-semitic materials anti-semitic?! To top it off you ask, “Can anyone REALLY say who is a human or is not a human on our planet? WTF? You’re not racist, but apparently in your head it’s a real possibly that some of us aren’t human. Thank the stars you’re deciding who is who isn’t on the basis of YouTube videos and not race.

I've address this already,too.

[Laphroaig]

I've ALREADY addressed this.

Are you, also, a Jewish person? There Jewish people in Scotland, also.

And Bronco is TOTALLY wrong about me. AND so is anyone who wants to try to stop me from asking questions by calling me an anti-Semite or Holocaust Denier.
That is just so BELOW the belt, it's disgusting.

No, I'm not Jewish. Strangely, it's not compulsory to be Jewish in order to be disgusted by what happened to the Jews (and other ethnic groups) during the Holocaust.

Nobody is stopping you from asking questions but as you refuse to listen to the answers given in this thread it makes me wonder just what "opinion" you are waiting to hear.

You claim that you want to find knowledge and be educated but you ignore Trish, Broncofan and others who have tried to do exactly that.

What will it take for you to realise that by continuing to promote the articles and videos that you link to, you will be associated with the appalling views and opinions contained within them, regardless of whether you believe them or not?

You can't remain neutral and "confused" forever. In fact simply by stating that you're confused implies that you do have opinions otherwise your mind would be blank. In Scottish law there is a saying, "ignorance is no defence" and after the discussion on this thread you can't even claim to be ignorant anymore. I've certainly learnt a lot from this thread.

As you are so fond of your little experiments, have you asked your Polish friend their opinion on the videos and links you've posted? I'd love to hear what they have to say.

[broncofan]

AND so is anyone who wants to try to stop me from asking questions by calling me an anti-Semite or Holocaust Denier.
That is just so BELOW the belt, it's disgusting.
The most salient thing about Dahlia's posts is the hypocrisy. The total inability to apply the same standards to her own behavior that she demands of other people.

She posts a thread whose sub-text is that the Holocaust was fabricated. She then accuses people of trying to shut her down. When that doesn't happen, she then tries to shut them down by shaming the moderators into erasing the posts of people who say she is anti-semitic. What a moral inversion it would be to allow her to post anti-semitic propaganda but then demand people call it something else. Who the hell would go for that?

Oh yes, she's not denying the Holocaust. What she's really doing is questioning why so many Jews have a casualty number on their brains in advance of it and are using the word holocaust before the Holocaust. But there's no conclusion to be drawn from that.

Whatever happened happened. We can't say what happened, but something happened. Or nothing happened. But the nothing that happened sure did happen. Or it could have been something that happened, in which case it's obvious that it happened to happen too.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Again, you nasty individual.
You try to put words in my mouth.

The Amazing Kreskin is at it again, READING MINDS.

You take everything out of context.

[broncofan]

The worst thing about this thread is we can't even have a candid conversation about the Holocaust because Dahlia pretends that's not what we're talking about. So when Martin posts a note from that era discussing the atrocities, she yells that she is not denying the Holocaust. When Laphroaig discusses his experience viewing gas chambers at concentration camps he is immediately headed off.

The only thing up for discussion are why these newspaper articles exist. Oh yes, and why a photograph of Elie Wiesel and a bunch of skinny people may have been doctored. And of course why the Jews have been persecuted so repeatedly. But we cannot talk about the Holocaust because she has already acknowledged that something happened. Strange that she won't say what. Back to the newspapers, the doctored photo of the skinny people, the Khazar Jews who did not descend from biblical Jews, or the oddly repetitious persecution of the Jews. Let's keep our focus here.

[broncofan]

Again, you nasty individual.
You try to put words in my mouth.

The Amazing Kreskin is at it again, READING MINDS.

You take everything out of context.
Nonsense. I've done nothing but try to be honest in this thread. You've done nothing but equivocate and prevaricate.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Jesus will forgive you if you only ask Him to.
You can just think it, you don't have to go to a church to ask Him to forgive you.

And why does someone use the biggest words in the shortest sentence, is beyond me. Trying to sound smart?

You know?...with all the 1000's of members in HA, look what you get. A few thumbs up from trish and Freddie the Freeloader, Lap the Scot, and maybe Martin and Stavros.

I've stopped using the vote posts buttons. It's childish either way, and hypocritical.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Calling someone an anti-Semite with almost every post is NOT having a discussion.

I will refer to you from NOW on as, Uncle Leo.

And to think that GrumpySteven called ME self-important. WOWzers, he missed the mark by a million or so miles, Uncle Leo.

[broncofan]

You know?...with all the 1000's of members in HA, look what you get. A few thumbs up from trish and Freddie the Freeloader, Lap the Scot, and maybe Martin and Stavros.

Look at what you get with the same number of posters here:D

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

I.
Don't.
Care.

I sense that the majority of members KNOW what and how you are.

You are as calculative as a mathematician.

Stop trolling this thread with your vile name calling.

[trish]

Hey! We'll have no hate speech against mathematicians in these forums, you calculaphobe.

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

http://www.empireonline.com/forum/image/asc.gif
Look at the nice bum, Uncle Leo.
It's so nice and clean and tight. It's like a pussy - only it's TIGHTER (wink wink).
Mmm, baby.
Take me, and pin me to my mattress, and hold my wrists down and pound me hard with you know what - that meaty thing between your thighs.
.

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Then you can stick it right it in the back of this lovely, soft, warm mouth - right down my throat til i gag (if i gag).

http://www.animationplayhouse.com/down.gif

[Dahlia Babe Ailhad]

Hey! We'll have no hate speech against mathematicians in these forums, you calculaphobe.

Nono, it's anti-calculite!! LOL

I love you two, so much. YOU both just don't realize it.

[Stavros]

Stav,
Medicines, i am highly against. That is GREED at work, fundamentally.

Must be the oddest comment to make on a forum dedicated to the transgendered and their admirers.