Malcolm Gladwell: Football Is a Moral Abomination...

[Ben]

Agree? Disagree?... if so why?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bpM42utfQg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bpM42utfQg)

[sukumvit boy]

Agree. One third of professional players will face long term brain injury. He poses the question , " Can you think of any other industry that would tolerate that?"

[javier81]

How is it a moral abomination? Because the NFL is a non-profit that earns 10 billion a year? Because of the absurd disparity of player punishment between offenses of spousal abuse vs substance abuse violations? Because their charitable donations only amount to a tenth of 1 percent of their profits? Because of their hypocrisy on drug usage? Marijuana use warranting 10 game suspensions. Meanwhile, they're pumping players full of cortisone and opiates so they can "play through the pain". I could go on. And this is all coming from a huge fan of football.

[JenniferParisHusband]

Here's the only problem I have with that. And I say this as someone who recently has found it harder to watch football, knowing the long term issues that are coming from the concussions and other injuries. When you look at sports in general, you can make a case that they are a moral abomination. Ok, the NFL has brain trauma, that's always been the case with boxing. Muhammad Ali barely functioning as a human being thanks to his injuries from the 1960's and 70's. Anything changed in Boxing? Nope, in fact we got MMA out of it, which while it claims to be safer, still involves blows to the heads and knockouts, which are really another word for concussions, and choke holds which even if they are tapped out of, reduce oxygen flow to the brain. Boxing, as much as Gladwell claims it's gone away, still has HBO and Showtime events, the big fights still sell out arenas, and has even found a new audience with women as women fighters and women looking to change their fitness routines take up boxing, and MMA. We just had a discussion of an MMA fighter who beat the hell out of his porn star girlfriend. Was he naturally violent, or has he taken too many blows the head? I don't think a word was even spoken about head trauma and MMA. And it's still the world's fastest growing sport.

Soccer, there are studies, and a very recent case of one player who had similar brain trauma, from years of heading the ball, and collisions while going for headers. Maybe they aren't getting concussions on the same level of the NFL, but it is still occurring, and until recently, it was the same thing with coaches where a player could go back in when they should have been kept out.

But if you are going to use the term "moral abomination" you can apply it a lot of different ways. Some of those female gymnasts who never grow over 4'8'' and starve themselves, who take horrendous falls and sustain injuries kids shouldn't be sustaining, is that any less of a moral abomination? Yes, the NFL has a new trend towards violence, especially domestic violence. And that part of it, very much a moral abomination. But if you look at the rest of the sports world, there are a lot of things you could say that of.

I think the NFL is going to be around for a long long time. Like Baseball, it will probably decline when something else comes along (Hopefully soccer and not something stupid like Lacrosse) but it will do so just because at some point there will be a demand for something different, but probably not because of this.


Also...
Javier, yeah, the NFL punishment system is a joke, as is the drug testing policy. Totally agree with you on that. But the NFL isn't a non-profit. It's a protected monopoly for sure, but it isn't totally a non-profit. I interned for a team at one point, they pay a lot in taxes (probably get more in tax breaks though), but they do have to write some checks to the IRS and most, if not all state governments. It's just not in the ways you normally think of for taxes. The NFL itself, is a trade organization, they don't pay taxes, which is why things like the TV contracts go through the NFL and not the teams.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/nflexempt.asp

[dreamon]

Agree. One third of professional players will face long term brain injury. He poses the question , " Can you think of any other industry that would tolerate that?"

Over 20% of American coal miners in their thirties already have black lung.

Median coal miner salary: $70,000

Median NFL player salary: $770,000

[celticgrafix]

Who cares, if you chose to do it you accept what comes along with that choice

[youngblood61]

All I have to say is Hockey. Guys on skates running in to each other, on ice!

[sukumvit boy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/27/sports/football/john-urschel-baltimore-ravens-retires-nfl-cte-study.html?mcubz=1
NFL player John Urschel quits in the face of new evidence that 100% of pro players are suffering from Traumatic Brain Injury.He's also a very smart 26 year old pursuing his PhD in Mathematics.

[broncofan]

I'm kind of conflicted. I watch boxing and know that boxers sometimes suffer appalling brain damage. Some fighters function reasonably well after their careers but then again many don't (see Terry Norris, Riddick Bowe etc).

Still, there is something unusual about the amount of damage we're seeing football players suffer. Aaron Hernandez' autopsy results showed he had stage 3 cte, which came with pictures of similar cte next to a normal control. According to some neurologists these brains look nearly as bad as someone with advanced dementia. And it's occurring consistently, starting from an early age.

Ethicists and lawmakers might allow people to make informed decisions if they know what the risks are but the law doesn't usually allow people to trade health for money so directly.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/21/sports/aaron-hernandez-cte-brain.html

[sukumvit boy]

Yes , same goes for boxing , look what it did to Muhammad Ali . Another throw back to our love for blood sport.
Should ban them both or radically change the rules and safety equipment.
And free the dolphins and killer whales while we're at it , LOL.:wiggle:

[blackchubby38]

I'm kind of conflicted. I watch boxing and know that boxers sometimes suffer appalling brain damage. Some fighters function reasonably well after their careers but then again many don't (see Terry Norris, Riddick Bowe etc).

Still, there is something unusual about the amount of damage we're seeing football players suffer. Aaron Hernandez' autopsy results showed he had stage 3 cte, which came with pictures of similar cte next to a normal control. According to some neurologists these brains look nearly as bad as someone with advanced dementia. And it's occurring consistently, starting from an early age.

Ethicists and lawmakers might allow people to make informed decisions if they know what the risks are but the law doesn't usually allow people to trade health for money so directly.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/21/sports/aaron-hernandez-cte-brain.html

While I believe in the effect that CTE has had on other players, I don't like the fact that Aaron Hernandez's lawyer is trying to use it as an excuse for his client murdering 3 people. He is trying to use it as basis as a lawsuit against the NFL and the Patriots. Even though a majority of those concussions happened when he played at the University At Florida. Where he also had a criminal record. He was also a troublemaker when he was a high school. So when it comes to him, I'm not buying CTE was the reason for his lack of impulse control.

There are a majority of people out there who don't believe in the science behind CTE and see it as a attack on football. Using it as way to excuse and/or explain someone's violent behavior is a surefire way to help discredit that information.


Yes , same goes for boxing , look what it did to Muhammad Ali . Another throw back to our love for blood sport.
Should ban them both or radically change the rules and safety equipment.
And free the dolphins and killer whales while we're at it , LOL.:wiggle:

You don't have to ban football. I think all you have to do is make a couple of simple changes to youth football to help make the game safer at that level. Like no pads or helmets until freshman year of high school. Before that the kids can play either flag and/or tackle football. At the same time, coaches can focus on developing the players skill sets.

[Stavros]

I don't know much about American Football, though it has some similarity with Rugby in the UK (and in the other countries in which it is played) with the exception that most players do not wear protective gear, but where injuries caused by aggressive tackling are common from school and local teams to the international level.

My point would be cultural: I have often heard tv pundits in the Uk talking about 'strong tackling' using the phrase It's a man's game. The assumption is that if you are not prepared to be aggressive and accept it as part of the game, do something else. American football players are big guys, if one of them is rushing towards me, I am running away as fast as I can. I can understand those who defend 'the art of Boxing' but they are deluded if they don't think people watch it for the violence; and the 'crunch' you hear when two football teams block each other is very real, but is it not also part of the sound of football? As your President seems to suggest, if you take the politically correct route to reduce the violence and aggression in football there is nothing left to watch, presumably because he doesn't get strategy...

[broncofan]

While I believe in the effect that CTE has had on other players, I don't like the fact that Aaron Hernandez's lawyer is trying to use it as an excuse for his client murdering 3 people. He is trying to use it as basis as a lawsuit against the NFL and the Patriots. Even though a majority of those concussions happened when he played at the University At Florida. Where he also had a criminal record. He was also a troublemaker when he was a high school. So when it comes to him, I'm not buying CTE was the reason for his lack of impulse control.
Generally I agree with your point that it's not all that helpful to use cte as an excuse for Hernandez' actions. I don't think it's exculpatory but it's tough to rule out as a possible partial cause in some cases. The closest analogy I can think of is the effect steroid use has on some people. It can cause rage in people who already have severe anger problems but it probably does not cause rage in most people. Dementia can have the same effect of heightening propensities, as it tends to remove the filter. I don't think CTE in a meaningful sense caused Hernandez to kill but we might see more violence from people with brain damage who were previously able to control it.

At least some people who love boxing, even to the point of knowing everything about it technically, like the violence. Probably most. That's one reason pro boxing is more popular than amateur boxing where they wear big gloves and head gear. It could be one reason why mma with their tiny little gloves and high rate of finishes is becoming more popular than boxing. Knockout artists also are more popular than stylists which is really easy to confirm.

I don't think it's going to be easy to legislate these sports away, but it is reasonable to ask why they're culturally acceptable and legal. I've had enough people ask me why I think boxing should be legal when assault is not...isn't it just mutually agreed upon assault with rules to make it more palatable? It's not easy to brush aside those questions. Yes I can come up with distinctions but there is some point to the questions....

[sukumvit boy]

I don't know much about American Football, though it has some similarity with Rugby in the UK (and in the other countries in which it is played) with the exception that most players do not wear protective gear, but where injuries caused by aggressive tackling are common from school and local teams to the international level.

My point would be cultural: I have often heard tv pundits in the Uk talking about 'strong tackling' using the phrase It's a man's game. The assumption is that if you are not prepared to be aggressive and accept it as part of the game, do something else. American football players are big guys, if one of them is rushing towards me, I am running away as fast as I can. I can understand those who defend 'the art of Boxing' but they are deluded if they don't think people watch it for the violence; and the 'crunch' you hear when two football teams block each other is very real, but is it not also part of the sound of football? As your President seems to suggest, if you take the politically correct route to reduce the violence and aggression in football there is nothing left to watch, presumably because he doesn't get strategy...
LOL, and because he doesn't get The Fine Arts Network or BBC Arts either.

[tacocorpv2]

I just heard about similar research on football (soccer for americans) The headers can cause problems as well, of course it's not exactly the same, but I can see why. Especially if you are in the ''wall'' and manage to block the shot with your head, that hurts.

[EdwardKic]

So with a win tomorrow, Leicester can make football history. Fingers crossed they pull it off. I dont know how Id react to Tottenham winning the league...

[youngblood61]

CTE, has really changed the game. The problem is no matter how hard they try, the game is about violence. Guys like Jack Tatum, Ronnie Lott, they couldn't play today because they hit to hard. If you ever ventured into their zone, you paid a heavy price. Darryl Stingley as an example, and that happened in a pre-season game. Today, he wold have gotten 15 yards, and an ejection.