Roots and consequences of Ukraine's violence

[Dino Velvet]

Problems between these two countries is nothing new. The elephant in the room with The Olympics right next door.

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1273802/thumbs/o-SOCHI-MAP-570.jpg?1

http://news.yahoo.com/roots-consequences-ukraine-39-violence-154736768.html?vp=1


Roots and consequences of Ukraine's violence

http://l.yimg.com/os/152/2012/04/21/image001-png_162613.png (http://www.ap.org/) By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV and MARIA DANILOVA 4 hours ago

KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — Ferocious street battles between protesters and police in the Ukrainian capital have left dozens dead and hundreds wounded in the past few days, raising fears that the ex-Soviet nation, whose loyalties are split between Russia and the West, is in an uncontrollable spiral of violence.
Following a shaky truce Wednesday, fighting flared up again with renewed fervor. Both the government and the opposition blame each other for widely using firearms. The opposition said the government used snipers to shoot protesters from roofs of buildings around Independence Square, known as the Maidan, which has been the epicenter of the anti-government protests.

Here is a guide to the crisis.

DIVIDED COUNTRY
The protests erupted in November when President Viktor Yanukovych abruptly refused to sign a long-anticipated political association and free trade agreement with the European Union, opting instead for closer ties with Russia. Yanukovych is widely despised in Ukraine's west, but has strong support in his native Russia-speaking east, as well as south.
The pro-Western demonstrators saw Yanukovych's move as a betrayal of national interests and submission to Moscow, and demanded that that he reverse his decision. Their number swelled to hundreds of thousands after a brutal riot police crackdown and their demands have quickly become more radical to include Yanykovych's resignation and early elections.

ROOTS OF VIOLENCE
The rallies, which were initially peaceful, spilled into violence in January after parliament, dominated by Yanukovych's supporters, passed repressive laws intended to quash the protest. For several days in January, radical protesters hurled firebombs and stones at police, who retaliated with stun grenades, tear gas and rubber bullets. At least four people died and hundreds were injured.
Fighting ceased after Yanukovych made some concessions, including the retraction of the repressive legislation and the ouster of his prime minister. The opposition kept pushing for constitutional changes that would limit the presidential powers, and the refusal by pro-Yanukovych's lawmakers to endorse the amendments triggered the latest spasm of violence that began when the demonstrators assailed police who fought back.
Unlike last month, firearms were widely used this time, resulting in a much higher death toll.
Pitched battles led to further radicalization and made both sides unwilling to compromise. The opposition would accept nothing but Yanukovych's resignation. The president is apparently prepared to fight until the end.

GLOBAL POWER PLAYS
Both Russia and the West have made vigorous efforts to draw Ukraine into its orbit — and that tug of war continues in the crisis.
Moscow sees what is now Ukraine as the birthplace of Russian statehood and the Russian Orthodox Christianity. Most of modern-day Ukraine came under the control of the Russian czars in the 1700s after being part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Except for some western regions, which were part of Poland between the two world wars and then became part of the Soviet Union, Ukraine remained under Moscow's control until the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union.
President Vladimir Putin sees close economic and political ties with Ukraine as essential for the success of his project to build an alliance of ex-Soviet neighbors.
Russia has done its best to derail Ukraine's pact with the EU with a mixture of trade sanctions and promises. After Yanukovych spiked the deal, Moscow offered a $15 billion bailout to help Ukraine avoid an imminent default, but so far has only provided $3 billion, freezing further disbursements pending the outcome of the ongoing strife.
The European Union and the United States have urged Yanukovych to negotiate a peaceful end to the conflict. But numerous visits to Kiev by Western diplomats have achieved little result so far.
Exasperated, Washington and the EU warned Yanukovych they would introduce sanctions against those responsible for the latest violence. Sanctions including travel bans and asset freezes could force Yanukovych's hand by hitting powerful tycoons whose support is essential for his rule.

POSSIBLE CONSEQUENCES
Protesters have seized government buildings in most western regions of Ukraine, where public support for Yanukovych is close to zero, declaring themselves independent from the central government. They seized hundreds of firearms at police and security agency headquarters and sent volunteers to join battles in Kiev, according to the government.
In the Russian-speaking east and south, where the majority of the population depends on trade with Russia and supports close ties with Moscow, pro-Western demonstrators have little public following. Some officials and lawmakers there have urged Yanukovych to quash protests in Kiev at any cost.
The sharp divide between east and west has fueled fears of a messy breakup of the country.
___
Isachenkov reported from Moscow.

[tsadriana]

Russia its bad ...everything to do with russia means war ,danger and pain.

[Prospero]

An excellent primer on the Ukraine's internal issues from the New York Review.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/jan/09/fighting-soul-ukraine/?pagination=false

[Dino Velvet]

Good article. Russia's protection is also Russia's dominance. Ukraine again in a tough spot.


But at that lunch with Kozhara, the man who would become foreign minister, he told a story that helps explain what happened next. He said that he had met colleagues from Kazakhstan who had warned him against joining the Russian-sponsored customs union. They said that in a meeting the Russians had explained what they wanted to do. When the Kazakhs began to put forward their own ideas, the Russians told them they were not interested because they had just made clear to them what would be done, whether they liked it or not.

What Kozhara’s story meant was that, at the heart of the party regarded as pro-Russian, there was little appetite for being absorbed into a new arrangement with Russia in which Ukrainian leaders would simply be reduced to taking orders.
Pro-Europeans also thought that the way Putin makes public his disdain for Yanukovych, who in his youth spent time in prison for robbery and assault, was helping to estrange their president from Russia. When they have met, Putin has made Yanukovych wait for hours, presumably to humiliate him; he spends as little time with him as possible. Putin despises Yanukovych, say Ukrainians, who also told me that they think their president is frightened of him.
Since the different parts of the country have such deep roots in different political traditions and histories, which are reflected in their different voting patterns, it is easy to understand why Ukrainian politicians might want to balance between the EU and Russia and extract concessions from one side by playing it against the other. But what has provoked the current crisis is that both Russia and the EU have become fed up with Ukraine’s hedging.

[dderek123]

Kiev Maidan Square Before and After photos.

http://rt.com/files/news/22/a7/a0/00/ab-3.jpg

http://rt.com/files/news/22/a7/a0/00/ab-4.jpg

http://cdn.rt.com/files/news/22/a7/a0/00/ab-1.si.jpg

http://rt.com/news/kiev-maidan-before-after-946/

[Dino Velvet]

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-kiev-death-toll-955/

[Ben]

A New Cold War? Ukraine Violence Escalates, Leaked Tape Suggests U.S. Was Plotting Coup - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROTwyP5no08)

[kittyKaiti]

Once again, the United States and the Freedom Patrol have decided to create a puppet ally via CIA provocateurs like they've been doing since Panama, Grenada, Nicaragua and in recent years, Egypt, Syria, Libya and now Venezuela. It is not long before Iran, North Korea, Cuba and others fall at the behest of the globalist .00000001%'rs.

[Stavros]

It seems obvious to me that the transition from dictatorship to democracy in Ukraine has been painful. There are internal fissures in the country which make it difficult to see how the two 'extremes': pro-Western European and Pro-Russian can find common ground, but I suspect that the larger failure of the economy may be a factor that is suggesting one route rather than the other. The more immediate reality of an economic bail-out for its economic woes with Russia rather than Europe may have been behind Yanukovych's volte face on EU relations, I don't know that the EU could have done much with a place as corrupt as the Ukraine which does not meet the criteria for EU membership though one wonders if the rules for EU membership or any other favoured status mean anything these days.

The curious thing in Ukraine, as Patrick Cockburn pointed out in The Independent a few days ago, is that in the Ukraine the popular protests are being waged against a democratically elected government, even with the caveats one can find for the odd two-tier system that is used in the Ukraine, where 50% of the votes are first past the post and 50% proportional representation. Either way, Yanukovuch's Party of the Regions won the election, and it is not as if he is the first President or Prime Minister to renege on his promises. The protests are a gift for the anti-Putin bloc which might include the EU although the American reaction was presented thus by Cockburn:

The television-friendly version of the protests has little time for complicated stuff about the role of outside powers or the competition between oligarchs and the ruling family. Understandably, it is the phrase "Fuck the EU" in the leaked phone call between Victoria Nuland, the top US diplomat for Europe, and Geoffrey Pyatt, US ambassador to Ukraine, that has attracted the attention. But it is worth listening to the rest of their talk on YouTube to appreciate the extent to which these senior US officials saw themselves as determining who should form a future Ukrainian government.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/are-protesters-overthrowing-a-brutal-despot-or-merely-bad-losers-at-the-polls-9131002.html

The role played in the economy by oligarchs and cliques related to the President's family or others across the country, makes ordinary people feel left out -a feeling common in Egypt, and brought out in the article by Tim Judah in the link Prospero provided. I think there has to be an internal resolution in Ukraine before the broader issue of 'who comes first? Europe or Russia' is dealt with. If the protests lead to greater liberalisation of the economy the opportunities that result for a broader swathe of the population ought to be an important trend away from that shadow cast by the defunct Communist state and its immedate beneficiaries. It would be helpful if outside powers did not impose sanctions, or intervene, but these days Putin has put Russia in the firing line of numerous conflicts, and plenty of others are taking the bait.

One small point -there is a thow-away line in Judah's article on Azerbaijan that should be thrown away:
the Aliev family, which runs Azerbaijan, has no interest in Europe’s democratic values or trade. Its members have become rich on oil and gas and that is enough for them.

Judah ought to know that by now trade with Russia and the CIS bloc amounts to 14% of the total with 86% going to Europe, Asia and America -most of it might be oil and gas, and while Azerbaijan might not have much interest in Europe's 'democratic values', its trade is hugely important.

[dderek123]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY2pxpwB98s

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/incredible-drone-video-show-the-ukraine-riot-battlefiel-1527785773

[Dino Velvet]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/21/world/europe/ukraine-protests/


In Ukraine, signs of progress, and questions, after deal to end fighting

By Phil Black. Nick Paton Walsh and Michael Pearson, CNN
updated 1:27 PM EST, Fri February 21, 2014

Are you in Ukraine? Send us your photos and experiences (http://ireport.cnn.com/topics/1077598?hpt=hp_t1) but please stay safe.
Kiev, Ukraine (CNN) -- Hours after government and opposition leaders signed an agreement ending days of deadly fighting, Ukraine's parliament moved quickly to cut the president's powers, sack the interior minister and pass a bill that could free jailed opposition leader Yulia Tymoshenko.
The changes, passed by a constitutional majority that can't be vetoed, mark a stunning shift from just a day ago, when President Viktor Yanukovych sent security forces into the streets to battle protesters angry over his pivot toward Russia and other issues.
Tymoshenko, a former prime minister who earlier was a hero of the country's 2004 revolution, is a powerful symbol to the opposition. She was imprisoned in 2011 after what international observers saw as a politically motivated sham trial.
She went on a hunger strike the following year after allegedly being beaten unconscious by guards.
The parliamentary action comes after Yanukovych, opposition leaders and representatives of the European Union signed a deal Friday afternoon meant to end the country's political crisis and bloody fighting that has left parts of Kiev a war zone.
"Good compromise for Ukraine. Gives peace a chance. Opens the way to reform and to Europe," Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski said via Twitter before the signing was completed.
Earlier, an ITN/ITV camera captured Sikorski telling a protest leader to accept the deal.
"If you don't support this, you'll have martial law, you'll have the army. You will all be dead," he can be overheard as saying.
The agreement -- hashed out overnight and into the afternoon among Ukrainian leaders, opposition figures and European Union representatives -- calls for cuts in the president's power by rolling back the constitution to an earlier version.
It calls for further constitutional reform to be completed by September, according to a draft posted on the German Foreign Office's website.
It also requires presidential elections "as soon as the new Constitution is adopted but no later than December 2014."
Protesters are to withdraw from streets and public buildings they've occupied during the crisis and turn in illegal weapons, according to the deal. Security forces are to "step back from confrontational posture" and use force only to protect public buildings, the agreement says.
A joint investigation into the recent violence will follow. Authorities, opposition representatives and the European Council will be included, according to the deal.
A cheer went up from the crowd in Kiev's Independence Square when the agreement was announced. Protesters waved Ukrainian flags under clear skies free of the choking smoke from burning barricades that has characterized recent days.
It remained to be seen if the deal would be enough to overcome the nation's deep divisions and mistrust on both sides inflamed by the recent violence.
The Ukrainian parliament, the Rada,moved quickly to fulfill the first requirement of the agreement -- passing a law to roll back the country's constitution to an earlier version that limits the President's powers.
It later passed legislation sacking Interior Minister Vitali Zakharchenko, citing "abuse of power" in the crackdown on protesters, agreed to compensate injured or slain protesters and their families and voted to decriminalize the charge on which Tymoshenko was sent to prison.

A powerful symbol
Tymoshenko's freedom was not expected to be immediate: A court must now act to free her, and other charges pending against her remain in place.
A year after Tymoshenko lost the 2010 presidential election to Yanukovych and became his fiercest opponent, Ukrainian prosecutors charged her with signing overpriced gas deals with Russian state-owned energy provider Gazprom.
She was convicted and sentenced to seven years in prison at a trial she repeatedly called a farce overseen by a judge she called Yanukovych's "stooge."
Amnesty International and other groups took up her cause, calling the case politically motivated and demanding her release.

Reactions to the deal
While reaction to the signing from opposition leaders wasn't immediately available, opposition leader and former boxer Vitali Klitschko earlier said protesters must keep the pressure on the government.
"We must do everything to stop the confrontation, and the people who gave illegal orders will be brought to justice," he said.
White House spokesman Jay Carney said the United States welcomed the agreement but said it would closely watch to make sure it is implemented.
European Union officials also expressed relief at the agreement.
"This is an important step towards avoiding violence and further bloodshed, achieving peace and stability in the country and resuming a political process," European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso said in a statement.
While developments appeared encouraging, an earlier fragile truce crumbled just a day before amid renewed fighting. Geoffrey Pyatt, U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, called the result Thursday "the most tragic day in the history of Ukraine."

Roots of the crisis
The crisis began in November with anger about Yanukovych's decision to scrap a European Union-oriented trade deal and turn toward Russia.
It escalated this week with fierce fighting that the government says has claimed 77 lives and drew swift rebuke from the West. Protesters put the death toll at about 128.
The country has long been divided between historic allegiances to Russia in the east and Europe in the west.
But the disagreement quickly escalated into anger about Yanukovych's rule, including a sweeping, if short-lived, anti-protest law enacted in January.
Russia, which has offered to lend money to cash-strapped Ukraine in a deal worth billions of dollars and lower its gas prices, has put pressure on Yanukovych to crack down on demonstrators.
Western leaders, who have offered Ukraine a more long-term aid package requiring economic modernization, have urged the President to show restraint, allow the opposition more access to government and let the democratic process work out amid deep political differences.

Violence erupts
The crisis boiled over Tuesday when security forces waded into the crowd with water cannons, stun grenades, nightsticks and armored personnel carriers. That fighting brought swift condemnation from Western leaders, who accused Ukrainian leaders of a bloody crackdown.
Ukrainian officials, however, blamed protesters for attacking police, invading government buildings and looting hundreds of guns and tens of thousands of rounds of ammunition.
Government officials declared a truce Wednesday, but that cease-fire failed early the next day when fighting broke out again. In Thursday's round of fighting, some protesters appeared to be armed. Men in what appeared to be government uniforms seemed to fight back with automatic weapons and at least one sniper rifle.
In one incident captured by a CNN camera crew, gunfire felled a protest medic trying to treat a man lying on the ground.
One doctor treating protesters said several people had died of targeted wounds that she said appeared to be from sniper shots.
CNN was not able to immediately confirm the claims.
The government acknowledged Thursday that its forces had used firearms, saying it had done so to protect unarmed police officers who were in danger.
The European Union and United States responded to this week's violence with sanctions against Ukrainians deemed responsible for the violence.
Explainer: What and who are behind Ukraine's political crisis? (http://cnn.com/2014/02/18/world/europe/ukraine-protests-explainer/index.html)
iReport: Protester describes bloodied people being rushed to medics (http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1087270)
U.S. talks tough, but options limited in Ukraine (http://cnn.com/2014/02/19/politics/kerry-ukraine/)
CNN's Nick Paton Walsh, Phil Black, Andrew Carey, Alla Eshchenko and Todd Baxter reported from Kiev, and CNN's Michael Pearson reported and wrote from Atlanta. CNN's Ben Brumfield, Jessica King, Zahra Ulah, Mark Thompson and Greg Botelho also contributed to this report.

[Dino Velvet]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/21/us-ukraine-idUSBREA1G0OU20140221


Ukraine peace deal signed, opens way for early election

By Natalia Zinets and Sabine Siebold
KIEV Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:15pm EST




(Reuters) - Ukraine's opposition leaders signed an EU-mediated peace deal with President Viktor Yanukovich on Friday, aiming to resolve a political crisis in which scores have been killed and opening the way for an early presidential election this year.
Under pressure to quit from mass demonstrations in Kiev, Russian-backed Yanukovich made a series of concessions to pro-European opponents, including a national unity government and constitutional change to reduce his powers, as well as bringing forward the poll.
"There are no steps that we should not take to restore peace in Ukraine," the president said in announcing his concessions before the agreement was signed. "I announce that I am initiating early elections."
Within hours, parliament voted to revert to a previous constitution slashing Yanukovich's prerogatives, sacked his interior minister blamed for this week's bloodshed, and amended the criminal code to pave the way to release his arch-rival, jailed opposition leader Yulia Tymoshenko.
With Ukraine caught in a geopolitical tug-of-war between Russia and the West, at least 77 people have been killed this week in the worst violence since the independent country emerged from the wreckage of the Soviet Union in 1991.
It was not clear whether the concessions would be enough to persuade protesters demanding Yanukovich's immediate removal to lift their occupation of Kiev's central square.
EU leaders and the White House praised what European Council President Herman Van Rompuy called a "necessary compromise", but there was no explicit endorsement of the accord in grudging comments from Moscow.
For now, the deal, mediated by the foreign ministers of Germany, Poland and France, appears to have been a victory for Europe in its competition with Moscow for influence.
The European envoys signed the document as witnesses, but a Russian envoy did not. The Russian envoy, Vladimir Lukin, acknowledged that Moscow had fallen behind the EU in the latest diplomacy: "The EU representatives were in their own way trying to be useful, they started the talks.
"We joined the talks later, which wasn't very right. One should have agreed on the format of the talks right from the start," Lukin was quoted as saying by Interfax news agency.
Nevertheless, EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton acknowledged that implementing the accord would be "very challenging". Ukraine is bitterly divided and near bankruptcy.
A Reuters correspondent at the signing in the presidential headquarters said Yanukovich, 63, a towering former Soviet regional transport official with two convictions for assault, did not smile during a ceremony lasting several minutes.
Opposition leader Vitaly Klitschko, a retired world boxing champion, switched his nameplate to avoid sitting next to the president.
Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski described the agreement as a "good compromise for Ukraine". In a post on Twitter, he said it "gives peace a chance. Opens the way for reform and to Europe". It fell to Sikorski to sell the deal to the skeptical opposition.
ITN Video filmed outside a meeting room during a break in the talks signed showed Sikorski pleading with opposition delegates to accept it: "If you don't support this, you'll have martial law, you'll have the army, you'll all be dead."
PROTESTERS STAND THEIR GROUND
Anti-government protesters remained encamped in Kiev's central Independence Square, known as the Maidan or "Euro-Maidan", and scene of the bloodshed this week.
Shortly after the signing ceremony, an open coffin carrying one of the dead from Thursday's violence, was borne across the square as a bare-chested drummer beat out a funeral tattoo with people chanting "Heroes don't die! Bandits out!"
Some car horns hooted and fireworks were lit to celebrate the accord, but many activists were suspicious, noting that Yanukovich had cut deals before and was still in office.
"He has to go today. We won't accept elections. He gave the order to kill, so how can we live with him now until December?" said Vasily Zakharo, 40, from the western Lviv region.
"That's our opinion and that's the decision of the Maidan."
Zakharo came to Kiev four days ago to join the uprising. He shaved, packed a bag, took a baseball bat and left a note for his wife. "I called her when I got here. She cried, of course."
Earlier in the day, armed police briefly entered the parliament building while lawmakers were in emergency session but were quickly ejected. Members traded punches when speaker Volodymyr Rybak tried to adjourn proceedings.
If fully implemented, the deal would be a severe setback for Putin, who had made tying Ukraine into a Moscow-led Eurasian Union a cornerstone of his efforts to reunite as much as possible of the former Soviet Union.
Alexei Pushkov, head of Russia's State Duma foreign affairs committee and a member of Putin's United Russia party, told Reuters the accord was positive if it ended the violence.
"But I don't think it resolves any of the core problems that Ukraine is facing: economics, ethnic relations and governability. The opposition is rather dissimilar, and now the opposition will start to squabble among themselves," he said.
Washington took a back seat in the final phase of negotiations after a senior U.S. official was recorded using an expletive to disparage EU diplomacy on an unsecure telephone line last month. A White House spokesman said the United States remained ready to impose further sanctions as necessary if the deal was not implemented.
The future of Ukraine's economy, heavily indebted and dependent on Moscow for energy imports, remains unclear. Putin promised $15 billion in aid after Yanukovich turned his back on a far-reaching economic deal with the EU in November, but Russia has not made clear whether it will still pay.
Ukraine cancelled a planned issue of 5-year Eurobonds worth $2 billion, it told the Irish Stock Exchange where the debt would have been listed. Kiev had hoped Russia would buy the bonds to help it stave off bankruptcy.
Ratings agency Standard & Poor's cut Ukraine's credit rating for the second time in three weeks on Friday, citing the increased risk of default. S&P said latest developments made it less likely that Ukraine would receive desperately needed Russian aid.
Russia's economy minister said Moscow was still undecided on the next $2 billion instalment and was awaiting clarity on the government in Ukraine.
On financial markets, Ukraine's dollar bonds and the hryvnia currency firmed against the dollar from record lows hit this week on hopes for a deal.
However, RBS analyst Tatyana Orlova noted the country was still in dire financial straits. "This is not the end of the story. What I am reading is there is a deal but the devil is in the detail ... The urgent need is for a technocratic cabinet that could take steps to avert default," Orlova said.
The health ministry said 77 people had been killed since Tuesday afternoon, which meant at least 47 died in Thursday's clashes.
On Thursday, EU foreign ministers meeting in Brussels agreed in principle to impose targeted sanctions on Ukrainian officials responsible for the violence and threatened more if the authorities failed to restore calm.
After the Kiev accord, Ashton said a decision on the future of sanctions would depend on what the EU foreign ministers on the ground in Ukraine reported.
(Additional reporting by Richard Balmforth (http://blogs.reuters.com/search/journalist.php?edition=us&n=richard.balmforth&), Alessandra Prentice, Vasily Fedosenko (http://blogs.reuters.com/search/journalist.php?edition=us&n=vasilyfedosenko&) and Pavel Polityuk in Kiev, Sujata Rao (http://blogs.reuters.com/search/journalist.php?edition=us&n=sujatarao&) in London, Alexei Anishuk in Moscow, Leigh Thomas (http://blogs.reuters.com/search/journalist.php?edition=us&n=leigh.thomas&) in Paris, Marcin Goettig and Adrian Krajewski in Warsaw, Alexandra Hudson (http://blogs.reuters.com/search/journalist.php?edition=us&n=alex.hudson&) in Berlin; Writing by Paul Taylor and David Stamp (http://blogs.reuters.com/search/journalist.php?edition=us&n=david.stamp&); Editing by Peter Graff (http://blogs.reuters.com/search/journalist.php?edition=us&n=peter.graff&))

[dderek123]

http://i.imgur.com/RklXlgU.jpg

[Ben]

Kiev's Independence Square Before And After:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/02/21/280685388/photos-kievs-independence-square-before-and-after

[Dino Velvet]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/ap-interview-gorbachev-calls-ukraine-unity-22645214


AP Interview: Gorbachev Calls for Ukraine Unity

SHARJAH, United Arab Emirates February 24, 2014 (AP)
By ADAM SCHRECK Associated Press



http://a.abcnews.com/assets/images/logo/AP_logo_update_20130709.gif

The political turmoil in Ukraine looks like "a real mess," but it is important that the country hold together in the battle for influence between Russia and the West, former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev said Monday.
In an interview with The Associated Press, the 82-year-old Gorbachev emphasized the need for outside mediation to ease tensions in Ukraine, which became an independent country following the 1991 dissolution of the Soviet Union that he once led.
Ukraine today is deeply divided between largely pro-Russian eastern regions and western areas that long for closer ties with the European Union.
"No one wants it to come apart. I think that today it's important not to tear it apart," Gorbachev said of Ukraine. "I recently appealed to the leaders of the United States and Russia to act perhaps as mediators. And that would also include the European Union."
The mediators, he continued, could play a role in ensuring "that the crisis we see in Ukraine does not result in this kind of dramatic breakup. Let us give the people a chance to agree on something."
Gorbachev made the comments during a visit to the United Arab Emirates city of Sharjah, which sits along the Persian Gulf coast just north of Dubai. He was in the country to address the International Government Communication Forum, an annual gathering of policymakers, former political leaders and communications professionals.
Gorbachev became the Soviet leader in March 1985 and soon began promoting the policies of using "glasnost," or openness, and "perestroika," or restructuring.
His aim had been to reform the stagnant Soviet system, but the policies he put in place brought about democratic changes that eventually led to the breakup of the Soviet Union.
He won the 1990 Nobel Peace Prize for his role in helping to end the Cold War.
In his speech to the conference Sunday, he said the political tumult in Ukraine was ultimately the result of the Ukrainian government's failure to act democratically, engage in dialogue and fight corruption.
Demonstrators first began protesting late last year after Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych abandoned an agreement that would have strengthened the country's ties with the European Union in favor of seeking closer cooperation with Moscow.
"It looks like there is a real mess there and that the leaders of Ukraine proved unable to reach a kind of consensus in the country, in Ukrainian society. And that's why those issues became so acute," Gorbachev said. "There's a new Ukraine and it should find its own niche."
Ukraine's acting government is seeking the arrest of Yanukovych, whose whereabouts are uncertain, over accusations of mass crimes against protesters. Snipers fired on demonstrators last week during the bloodiest violence in Ukraine's post-Soviet history.
Gorbachev suggested Monday that no single outside power could dominate Ukraine's future.
"If the European Union wants to have things its own way, the United States wants to have things their own way, and Russia wants to have things its own way, I think that would be wrong," he said. "No one should claim domination over Ukraine."
Gorbachev, whose poor health has led him to miss a number of events in recent months, had assistance walking after delivering his speech Sunday.
"There is not enough stability in the world, and there is not enough stability in my health," he quipped Monday when asked about how he is feeling.
———
Follow Adam Schreck on Twitter at www.twitter.com/adamschreck (http://www.twitter.com/adamschreck)

[Dino Velvet]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/russia-says-wont-deal-mutineers-170039537.html


Russia says won't deal with "mutineers" who took power in Ukraine

http://media.zenfs.com/284/2011/06/21/reuters-85x27_113626.gif (http://www.reuters.com/) 43 minutes ago


* Medvedev leads Russian criticism of Ukraine's new leaders


* Putin stays silent on pro-European shift in Ukraine


* $15 billion financial bailout package in question


By Elizabeth Piper


MOSCOW, Feb 24 (Reuters) - Russia said on Monday it would not deal with those it said stole power in "an armed mutiny" in Ukraine, sending the strongest signal yet that Moscow does not want to be drawn into a bidding war with the West in its southern neighbour.
Querying the legitimacy of the new pro-European authorities after the Ukrainian parliament's removal of the Kremlin-backed president following months of unrest, Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said he saw no one to do business with in Kiev.
He did not declare a $15-billion bailout for Ukraine dead, although its future is in question, but signalled that a deal which cut the price Ukraine pays for Russian gas had an expiry date and that any extension would have to be negotiated.
With President Vladimir Putin still basking in the afterglow of Russia's success at the Sochi Winter Olympics, it has been left to aides to address a crisis that has not turned out as he wanted and reduced Russian clout in Ukraine.
Putin's silence about the fall of Viktor Yanukovich has been filled by allies' accusations of betrayal in Ukraine, of a Western-orchestrated coup and suggestions that there could be a split or civil war in the ex-Soviet republic of 46 million.
"Strictly speaking there is no one to talk to there. There are big doubts about the legitimacy of a whole series of organs of power that are now functioning there," Medvedev told Russian news agencies.
"Some of our foreign partners think differently, they believe they are legitimate ... I don't know which constitution they've read ... But it seems to me it is an aberration to call legitimate what is essentially the result of an armed mutiny."
Ukraine's new authorities issued an arrest warrant on Monday for mass murder against Yanukovich, now on the run after being toppled by bloody street protests in which police snipers killed opposition demonstrators.
The former Soviet republic appealed on Monday for financial assistance to stave off bankruptcy; its debts include more than $1 billion in unpaid gas bills to Russia for 2013.
Prices are negotiated each quarter - one of the last levers Moscow could pull in a battle with the West for influence in Ukraine, which was under Moscow's thumb in the Soviet era.
"The decision in the gas sphere, which was adopted, has concrete time periods for implementation," Medvedev said.
"What will happen after these expire is a question for discussion with the leadership of Ukrainian companies and the Ukrainian government, if one emerges there."

WAITING FOR A SIGN

Officials at state gas company Gazprom made clear they were waiting for a signal from the Kremlin to act.
The Foreign Ministry also took a firm line, portraying the new authorities in Kiev as extremists and accusing the West of making "unilateral, geopolitical calculations".
The strong language is partly intended to sell the new situation to a Russian public which until this weekend had been told Moscow had backed a winner in Yanukovich.
On the air waves and in print, outrage and dismay over Yanukovich's political demise has given way to derision towards a leader who allowed Ukraine to slip from his grasp and open the gates of power to brothers who "in fact, hate us".
As the popular Russian daily Moskovsky Komsomolets summed it up: "Yanukovich falls - Whatever".
While Putin made little effort to hide his distaste in dealing with Yanukovich, a former electrician who vacillated over closer ties with the EU or with Russia, he may now have to argue that both he and his successors are illegitimate rulers.
"Yanukovich is now a wanted man. Just four days ago, everything depended on him and he was needed by everyone. Now he's just needed by those who want to arrest him," said Alexei Pushkov, a Putin loyalist and a senior member of parliament.
"When we talk about 'brotherly' Ukraine, we must take into account that half of the population does not consider us brothers, and the radical part just hates us."
By playing for time, Putin may be banking on Ukraine's complex make-up - Russian-speaking regions to the east and south and Ukrainian-speaking regions in the west - complicating EU and U.S. efforts to unite Ukraine's new leadership.
He may alternatively have decided that the economic cost of winning over Ukraine in December was too high, and that it is better to let the EU foot the bill. Or, as one Ukrainian analyst suggested, it may not have a clear policy yet.
"Russia has no strategy on Ukraine at the moment. Russia is not delighted with what happened, but has already shown that the relations between the two countries have cooled," said Volodymyr Fedosenko of the Penta think tank in Kiev.
"Russia will express doubts about the legitimacy of the new government and indirectly support resistance, but Russia will be forced to recognise the new authorities because there is no alternative."

[Ben]

Disastrous Developments In Ukraine - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgtXeXowYi4)

[runningdownthatdream]

Russia has the right to protect its interests in the region. Especially so when a legally elected president is overthrown via a violent coup backed by the West. Yes, Yanukovych was clearly a thug but the majority of voters put him in power in a clean election. If the minority in the country decided they wanted him out they should be left to their own devices. Yet we see the US, UK, Canada and others - supposedly democratic societies - backing coups against fairly elected governments around the world. Most recently we saw this with Egypt and now again with Ukraine. Realpolitik, anyone?

[dderek123]

Dan Carlin - Poking the Bear (http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/e/e/0/ee0dcdcb2482f64a/cswdcc70.mp3?c_id=6882526&expiration=1393608492&hwt=9f25b15de6efba07bd6b85c6d98c5858)

This guy is a great podcaster. I guess you could say he's a moderate liberal. His history podcast is really entertaining as well.

[robertlouis]

Unconfirmed reports of armed Russian troops on the streets in the Crimea. It's getting very ugly over there.

[Dino Velvet]

Unconfirmed reports of armed Russian troops on the streets in the Crimea. It's getting very ugly over there.

They raised the Russian flag.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/russian-flag-raised-after-govt-sites-seized-ukraines-crimea-n39851

Crimea, the only Ukrainian region with an ethnic Russian majority, is the last bastion of opposition to the new political leadership in Kiev following Saturday's ouster of President Viktor Yanukovych (http://www.nbcnews.com/search/ukraine).http://media1.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2014_09/214401/140227-flag-crimea-340a_9548339918abb1d3199477eb71d583a3.nbcnews-ux-800-600.jpg
A Russian flag, right, flies next to a Crimean flag on top of the Crimean parliament building in Simferopol on Thursday.

[Prospero]

Let's hope everyone shows some restraint. The costs, otherwise, could be globally catastrophic.

This is a useful essay on the deep roots of the history by Orlando Figes, author of a terrific book on the Crimean war 9and a great historian of Russia - "Natasha's Dance' is one of the best books on that nation's history I've read.

it seems history is never forgotten. Those who remember the past are condemned to repeat it every bit as much as those who forget.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/28/putin-restraint-crimea-war-ukraine-russia-nicholas

[robertlouis]

One interpretation is that Putin is testing the west to see how far he can go, and yes, the Crimea, for all sorts of historical reasons, has strong links with Russia, but what's happening amounts to an invasion of sovereign territory. Since the fall of communism, internal disputes within the old soviet empire such as those in Chechnya, Nagorno-Karabakh and Georgia have been allowed to follow their course because they haven't impinged directly on the west - cynical, but true. What makes this very different is that Ukraine has borders with a number of EU states which used to be in the soviet orbit.

Tensions are cranking up by the minute, but it's hard to see a way in which the world community, whether it's the EU, Nato or the UN, can intervene with any effect in the short term other than via diplomacy.

[Prospero]

... any other form of intervention might produce results which could be truly catastrophic.

Disturbing news reports from the BBC last night on the rise of the neo-fascists in Ukraine. Gangs wearing neo-Nazi regalia now strut the streets of Kiev and say what they want is a pure Ukraine purged of Russians and... yes... Jews. The same old story.

[Dino Velvet]

Russia's Parliament Green-Lights Military intervention. I guess Obama's warnings were ignored once more. Wish he'd stop with the red lines and ultimatums.

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-approves-military-ukraine-162315025.html


Russia approves use of military in Ukraine

http://l.yimg.com/os/152/2012/04/21/image001-png_162613.png (http://www.ap.org/) By DAVID McHUGH and VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV 41 minutes ago


KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — Russia executed a de facto military takeover of a strategic region in Ukraine as the parliament in Moscow gave President Vladimir Putin a green light Saturday to proceed to protect Russian interests. The newly installed government in Kiev was powerless to react to the swift takeover of Crimea by Russian troops already in Ukraine and more flown in, aided by pro-Russian Ukrainian groups.
Putin's move follows President Barack Obama's warning Friday "there will be costs" if Russia intervenes militarily, sharply raising the stakes in the conflict over Ukraine's future and evoking memories of Cold War brinkmanship. The explicit reference to the use of troops escalated days of conflict between the two countries, which started when Ukraine's pro-Russian president was pushed out by a protest movement of people who wanted closer ties to Europe.
"I'm submitting a request for using the armed forces of the Russian Federation on the territory of Ukraine pending the normalization of the socio-political situation in that country," Putin said in his request sent to parliament.
Putin's call came as pro-Russian demonstrations broke out in Ukraine's Russian-speaking east, where protesters raised Russian flags and beat up supporters of the new Ukrainian government.
Russia's upper house also recommended that Moscow recalls its ambassador from Washington over Obama's comments.
Ukraine had already accused Russia on Friday of a "military invasion and occupation" of the Crimea peninsula, where Russia's Black Sea fleet is based. Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk called on Moscow "to recall their forces, and to return them to their stations," according to the Interfax news agency. "Russian partners, stop provoking civil and military resistance in Ukraine."
The crisis was sparked when Ukraine's deposed president, Victor Yanukovych, ditched a deal for closer ties to the European Union and instead turned toward Moscow. Months of protests followed, culminating in security forces killing dozens of protesters and Yanukovych fleeing to Russia.
Ignoring Obama's warning, Putin said the "extraordinary situation in Ukraine" was putting at risk the lives of Russian citizens and military personnel stationed at a naval base that Moscow has maintained in the Black Sea peninsula since the Soviet collapse.
Reflecting a degree of caution, Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin who presented Putin's request to the upper house, told reporters that the motion doesn't mean that the president would immediately send additional troops to Ukraine.
"There is no talk about it yet," he said.
Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, also said in remarks carried by RIA Novosti news agency that the president hadn't yet made a decision to use the Russian military in Ukraine. He added that Putin hasn't yet made a decision on recalling the ambassador either.
The U.N. Security Council called an urged meeting on Ukraine Saturday, and the European Union foreign ministers will hold an emergency meeting Monday to discuss the crisis.
Putin's motion loosely refers to the "territory of Ukraine" rather than specifically to Crimea, raising the possibility that Moscow could use military force in other Russian-speaking areas in eastern and southern Ukraine, where many oppose the new authorities in Kiev. Pro-Russian protests were reported in the eastern cities of Kharkiv, Donetsk and Luhansk and the southern port of Odessa.
Ukraine's population is divided in loyalties between Russia and Europe, with much of western Ukraine advocating closer ties with the European Union while eastern and southern regions look to Russia for support. Crimea, a semi-autonomous region of Ukraine, is mainly Russian-speaking.
In Saturday's parliamentary session in Moscow, a deputy house speaker said Obama had insulted Russia and crossed a "red line," and the upper house recommended the Russian ambassador in Washington be recalled. It will be up to Putin to decide whether that happens.
In Crimea, the pro-Russian prime minister who took office after gunmen seized the regional Parliament claimed control of the military and police there and asked Putin for help in keeping peace, sharpening the discord between the two neighboring Slavic countries.
Ukraine's acting president, Oleksandr Turchynov, said the election of Sergei Aksyonov as prime minister of Crimea was invalid.
Ukrainian officials and some Western diplomats said that a Russian military intervention is already well underway after heavily armed gunmen in unmarked military uniforms seized control of local government buildings, airports and other strategic facilities in Crimea in recent days.
Crimea only became part of Ukraine in 1954 when Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev transferred jurisdiction from Russia, a move that was a mere formality when both Ukraine and Russia were part of the Soviet Union. The Soviet breakup in 1991 meant Crimea landed in an independent Ukraine.
Russia put pressure on Ukraine from another direction when a spokesman for state gas company Gazprom said that Ukraine owed $1.59 billion in overdue bills for imported gas. Sergei Kuprianov was quoted by the RIA-Novosti agency as saying the gas arrears would endanger a recent discount granted by Russia. The discount lowered the price to $268.50 per thousand from other $400. The Russian payment demand and loss of the discount would accelerate Ukraine's financial crisis. The county is almost broke and seeking emergency credit from the International Monetary Fund.
Russia has taken a confrontational stance toward its southern neighbor after Yanukovych fled the country. Yanukovych was voted out of office by parliament after weeks of protests ended in violence that left more than 80 people dead.
Aksyonov, the Crimea leader, appealed to Putin "for assistance in guaranteeing peace and calmness on the territory of the autonomous republic of Crimea." Aksyonov was voted in by the Crimean parliament on Thursday after pro-Russia gunmen seized the building and as tensions soared over Crimea's resistance to the new authorities in Kiev, who took office this week.
Obama called on Russia to respect the independence and territory of Ukraine and not try to take advantage of its neighbor, which is undergoing political upheaval.
He said such action by Russia would represent a "profound interference" in matters he said must be decided by the Ukrainian people.
"The United States will stand with the international community in affirming that there will be costs for any military intervention in Ukraine," he said. Obama did not say what those costs might be.
Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt wrote on Twitter that it was "obvious that there is Russian military intervention in Ukraine. Likely immediate aim is to set up puppet pro-Russian semi-state in Crimea."
At the United Nations, the Ukrainian ambassador, Yuriy Sergeyev, said Friday that Russian transport aircraft and 11 attack helicopters had arrived in Crimea illegally, and that Russian troops had taken control of two airports in Crimea.
He described the gunmen posted outside the two airports as Russian armed forces as well as "unspecified" units.
Russia has kept silent on claims of military intervention and has said any troop movements are within agreed rules, even as it maintained its hard-line stance on protecting ethnic Russians in Crimea.
Meanwhile, flights remained halted from Simferopol's airport. Dozens of armed men in military uniforms without markings patrolled the area. They didn't stop or search people leaving or entering the airport, and refused to talk to journalists.
___
Vladimir Isachenkov reported from Moscow.

[Dino Velvet]

http://rt.com/news/donetsk-kharkov-ukraine-protest-365/

http://rt.com/files/news/23/00/50/00/1.jpg

http://rt.com/files/news/23/00/50/00/2.jpg

http://rt.com/files/news/23/00/50/00/ukr11.jpg

http://rt.com/files/news/23/00/50/00/ukr10.jpg

[Dino Velvet]

Raw: Pro-Russian Demonstrations in Ukraine - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPQ65HjjgB8)

[Dino Velvet]

Which pack of bloodthirsty Slavs will prove to be the more crazy and brutal? Whoever drinks out of the chalice in the end.

http://news.yahoo.com/kievs-protesters-ready-another-fight-against-russia-222018649.html


Kiev's protesters ready for another fight... against Russia

http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/news/2013-08-26/d19448d6-6aaa-4359-a768-eadacf5fbca9_afp-gif_new.gif (http://www.afp.com/) By Oleksandr Savochenko 1 hour ago


Kiev (AFP) - On Kiev's now iconic Independence Square, bare-chested Cossacks fiercely beat the war drums: Ukrainian authorities have just put the army on high alert in the face of a threat of a Russian invasion.
"They have de facto declared war on us," former interior minister Yuriy Lutsenko shouts to a crowd of thousands on the central stage nearby, not far from where dozens of anti-government protesters fell under the bullets of riot police last week in bloodshed that precipitated the fall of Russia-backed president Viktor Yanukovych.
Hundreds of kilometres away in Moscow, unhappy with the formation of a new government in the wake of Yanukovych's ouster, the parliament has only just authorised the deployment of Russian troops in Ukraine.
Among the crowds of anti-Yanukovych protesters who have occupied Independence Square for more than three months, Ukrainians look on, their faces sombre but expressing little surprise.
"We were expecting this measure, given the events happening in Crimea," one young man says.
In this southern Russian-speaking peninsula of Ukraine, mysterious masked and armed militamen have taken control of the regional parliament and airports since Thursday, supported by scores of civilians who do not hide their pro-Russia tendencies.
But in Kiev, many residents have come to the square to light candles and lay flowers on improvised shrines for those who died defending the protest movement to oust Yanukovych, whom they accused of wanting to bring Ukraine back into Russia's fold.
And they are ready to defend themselves again.
"In Crimea, we will have to wait. But we will respond with arms to any aggression beyond Crimea, as soon as it happens," said Lutsenko.
- 'We are ready' -
Crimea used to belong to the Soviet Union until it was attached to Ukraine in 1954, and it remains close to its giant neighbour Russia, which still maintains its Black Sea fleet in the peninsula's southern port city of Sevastopol as part of an agreement between the two countries.
Many of the Russophones who live there radically oppose the brand new, pro-West authorities in Kiev.
And discord has spread further into Ukraine, to the big, traditionally pro-Russian cities of Donetsk and Kharkiv in the east.
"We have toppled one dictator, and now another (Vladimir Putin) comes along. But Ukrainians will rise up to engage in combat," one protester says back in Kiev.
The square's makeshift security forces -- the same helmeted protesters with metal batons who defended themselves against now disbanded riot police -- are not quite ready to face tanks and even the most radical elements rule out going to Crimea for the moment.
"We're architects, philologists, computer programmers, not special forces," says Yarema Dukh, a self-defence member who comes from the western, nationalist bastion of Lviv.
"It's up to the army to act, but we will help it," he promises.
But the far-right paramilitary Pravy Sektor group, whose members were on the front lines of clashes with riot police during the protest movement, have called for a "general mobilisation" against the Russians.
"Putin is scared of what is happening in Ukraine, he wants to stifle our young revolution, but we are ready," says Artem Skoropadsky, spokesman for the group.
"We have called on all our partisans: we must get guns and stand ready to confront Russian occupation forces."


http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.575469!/image/131694620.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_640/131694620.jpg
Ukrainian Cossacks play drums on Kiev's Independence Square, calling on people to protest. February 20, 2014.

[Dino Velvet]

http://media.miamiherald.com/smedia/2013/12/21/20/20/276-10oKiZ.St.138.jpeg
A pro-European demonstrator in the traditional garb of a Ukrainian cossack smokes a pipe during a protest at Independence Square in Kiev, Ukraine, Saturday, Dec. 21, 2013.(AP Photo/Sergei Chuzavkov) Sergei Chuzavkov / AP

[Dino Velvet]

http://news.yahoo.com/russian-troops-over-ukraines-crimea-region-200052097.html


Russian troops take over Ukraine's Crimea region

http://l.yimg.com/os/152/2012/04/21/image001-png_162613.png (http://www.ap.org/) By TIM SULLIVAN and VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV 17 minutes ago


SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine (AP) — Russian troops took over the strategic Crimean peninsula Saturday without firing a shot. The newly installed government in Kiev was powerless to react, and despite calls by U.S. President Barack Obama for Russia to pull back its forces, Western governments had few options to counter Russia's military moves.
Russian President Vladimir Putin sought and quickly got his parliament's approval to use its military to protect Russia's interests across Ukraine. But while sometimes-violent pro-Russian protests broke out Saturday in a number of Russian-speaking regions of eastern Ukraine, Moscow's immediate focus appeared to be Crimea.
Tensions increased when Ukraine's acting president, Oleksandr Turchynov, made a late night announcement that he had ordered the country's armed forces to be at full readiness because of the threat of "potential aggression."
Speaking live on Ukrainian TV, Turchynov said he had also ordered stepped up security at nuclear power plants, airports and other strategic infrastructure.
Ignoring President Barack Obama's warning Friday that "there will be costs" if Russia intervenes militarily, Putin sharply raised the stakes in the conflict over Ukraine's future evoking memories of Cold War brinkmanship.
After Russia's parliament approved Putin's motion, U.S. officials held a high-level meeting at the White House to review Russia's military moves in Ukraine. The White House said Obama spoke with Putin by telephone for 90 minutes and expressed his "deep concern" about "Russia's clear violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity."
The White House said Obama told Putin that the United States is calling on Russia "to de-escalate tensions by withdrawing its forces back to bases in Crimea and to refrain from any interference elsewhere in Ukraine."
A statement from the Kremlin said Putin emphasized to Obama the existence of "real threats" to the life and health of Russian citizens and compatriots who are in Ukrainian territory. The statement indicated that Russia might send its troops not only to the Crimea but also to predominantly ethnic Russian regions of eastern Ukraine.
"Vladimir Putin emphasized that, in the case of a further spread in violence in eastern regions (of Ukraine) and Crimea, Russia maintains the right to protect its interests and the Russian-speaking population that lives there," the Kremlin statement said.
Obama told Putin that he would support sending international monitors to Ukraine to help protect ethnic Russians. He said the U.S. will suspend its participation in preparatory meetings for June's G-8 summit in Sochi, Russia, the site of the recently concluded Winter Olympics, warning that Russia's "continued violation of international law will lead to greater political and economic isolation."
NATO announced a meeting for Sunday of the North Atlantic Council, the alliance's political decision-making body, as well as a meeting of the NATO-Ukraine Commission. NATO secretary general Anders Fogh Rasmussen said the allies will "coordinate closely" on the situation in Ukraine, which he termed "grave."
The U.N. Security Council met in an open, televised session for about a half hour on Saturday afternoon after closed-door consultations, despite initial objections from Russia to an open session. The council heard speeches from a U.N. deputy secretary-general and several ambassadors, but did not take any action.
Ukraine's Ambassador to the U.N. Yuriy Sergeyev asked the Security Council "to do everything possible now" to stop what he called Russian "aggression." Russia's U.N. ambassador, Vitaly Churkin, said the government in Kiev needs to get away from "radicals" and warned, "such actions they're taking could lead to very difficult developments, which the Russian Federation is trying to avoid." He said Russia was intervening at the request of pro-Russian authorities in the autonomous Crimea region that is part of Ukraine.
Calling the situation in Ukraine "as dangerous as it is destabilizing," U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Samantha Power said, "It is time for the Russian military intervention in Ukraine to end." She warned that "Russia's provocative actions could easily push the situation beyond the breaking point." She asked that Russia directly engage the Ukraine government and called for international monitors to be sent to Ukraine to observe the situation.
"Russia and the West find themselves on the brink of a confrontation far worse than in 2008 over Georgia," Dmitri Trenin, the director of Carnegie Moscow Center, said in a commentary posted on its website. In Georgia, Russian troops quickly routed the Georgian military after they tried to regain control over the separatist province of South Ossetia that has close ties with Moscow.
The latest moves followed days of scripted, bloodless turmoil on the peninsula, the scene of centuries of wars and seen by Moscow as a crown jewel of the Russian and Soviet empires. What began Thursday with the early-morning takeover of the regional parliament building by mysterious troops continued Saturday afternoon as dozens of those soldiers — almost certainly Russian — moved into the streets around the parliamentary complex and seized control of regional airports, amid street protests by pro-Russian Crimeans calling for Moscow's protection from the new government in Kiev.
That government came to power last week in the wake of months of pro-democracy protests against the now-fugitive president, Viktor Yanukovych, and his decision to turn Ukraine toward Russia, its longtime patron, instead of the European Union. Despite the calls for Moscow's help, there has been no sign of ethnic Russians facing attacks in Crimea or elsewhere in Ukraine.
Obama on Friday called on Russia to respect the independence and territory of Ukraine and not try to take advantage of its neighbor's political upheaval.
He said such action by Russia would represent a "profound interference" in matters he said should be decided by the Ukrainian people. He has not said, however, how the U.S. could pressure Moscow to step back from its intervention.
The Russian parliament urged that Moscow recall its ambassador in Washington in response to Obama's speech.
On Friday, Ukraine accused Russia of a "military invasion and occupation" in the Crimea, where Russia's Black Sea fleet is based. Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk called on Moscow "to recall their forces, and to return them to their stations," according to the Interfax news agency. "Russian partners, stop provoking civil and military resistance in Ukraine."
Ukraine's population of 46 million is divided in loyalties between Russia and Europe, with much of western Ukraine advocating closer ties with the European Union while eastern and southern regions look to Russia for support. Crimea, a semi-autonomous region that Russia gave to Ukraine in the 1950s, is mainly Russian-speaking.
In his address to parliament, Putin said the "extraordinary situation in Ukraine" was putting at risk the lives of Russian citizens and military personnel stationed at the Crimean naval base that Moscow has maintained since the Soviet collapse.
Despite Putin's sharp move, there were possible signs Saturday that the Russian leader could soften his approach. Former Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, who was freed a week ago after more than 2 ½ years in prison, was reported to be heading to Moscow for a meeting with Putin on Monday, though her spokeswoman denied that. Putin has had good ties with Tymoshenko in the past, and he may look to her for a possible compromise.
In a statement posted on her party's web site, Tymoshenko urged the U.N. Security Council to meet in Kiev and asked the EU leaders to convene a meeting in Crimea. She urged the West to help protect Ukraine's territorial integrity, asked Ukrainians to remain calm and voiced hope that diplomacy will succeed.
Putin's parliamentary motion loosely refers to the "territory of Ukraine" rather than specifically to Crimea, raising the possibility that Moscow could use military force in other Russian-speaking areas in eastern and southern Ukraine, where many detest the new authorities in Kiev.
But in a note of restraint, Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin said the motion doesn't mean the president would immediately send additional troops to Ukraine. "There is no talk about it yet," he said.
Pro-Russian protests were reported Saturday in the eastern cities of Kharkiv, Donetsk and Luhansk and the southern port of Odessa. In Kharkiv, 97 people were injured in clashes between pro-Russia demonstrators who flushed supporters of the new Ukrainian government out of the regional government building and hoisted the Russian flag on top of it, according to the Interfax news agency.
Trenin, of Moscow's Carnegie office, said that Putin could be seeking to "include Crimea within the Russian Federation and eastern and southern regions of Ukraine forming a separate entity integrated with Russia economically and aligned with it politically."
"It is not clear at this point whether Kiev will be left to build a rump Ukraine with the western regions or whether it will be swayed to join the eastern regions," he wrote.
In Crimea, the new pro-Russian prime minister — who came to power after the gunmen swept into parliament on Thursday — claimed control of the military and police and asked Putin for help in keeping peace. There was no visible presence of Ukrainian troops Saturday.
The deputy premier in the Crimean government told Russian news agency RIA Novsti that Ukrainian troops were disarmed and others joined the Crimean people to help patrol the territory. The report couldn't immediately be confirmed.
Crimean Tatars, the historic hosts of the land who make up 12 percent of the island's population and stand strongly for Crimea remaining part of Ukraine, didn't put up any visible resistance Saturday.
"The last two or three days have turned around the life of all the people in Crimea," said Refat Chubarov, a Crimean Tatar leader. "They've taken over military bases and civil institutions. That's why Crimean society is filled with fear. People are afraid of everyone and everything."
Crimea only became part of Ukraine in 1954 when Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev transferred jurisdiction from Russia, a move that was a mere formality when both Ukraine and Russia were part of the Soviet Union. The Soviet breakup in 1991 meant Crimea landed in an independent Ukraine.
Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt summed the situation up simply: "What's happening in Crimea is a Russian takeover. There is no doubt about that," he told Swedish Radio. "Russian military forces are involved and there has been a local takeover of power."
Russia put pressure on Ukraine from another direction when a spokesman for state gas company Gazprom said that Ukraine owed $1.59 billion in overdue bills for imported gas. Sergei Kuprianov said in a statement carried by Russian news wires that the gas arrears would endanger a recent discount granted by Russia.
The Russian payment demand and loss of the discount would accelerate Ukraine's financial crisis. The country is almost broke and seeking emergency credit from the International Monetary Fund.
The tensions barely touched everyday life in Simferopol, the regional capital of Crimea, or anywhere on the peninsula. Children played on swings a few blocks from the parliament building, and most of the city's stores were open. Couples walked hand-in-hand through parks. Crimea's airports — civilian and military — were closed to air traffic, but trains and cars were moving to and from the Ukrainian mainland. The civilian airport in Simferopol was reopened late Saturday night.
"Things are normal," said Olga Saldovskaia, who was walking through town with her son and grandson. While she doesn't like having gunmen in the streets, like many people in this overwhelmingly ethnic Russian city, she also found their presence reassuring.
"If anyone tries to hurt the people here, they will protect us," said Saldovskaia. She said she sympathized with the pro-democracy protesters in Kiev, but also worries that turmoil in the capital could lead to violence against ethnic Russians. She added, though, that she definitely doesn't want Crimea to become part of Russia.
"Russia is not just all flowers and candy," she said.
Moscow has remained silent on claims that Russian troops are already in control of much of the peninsula, saying any troop movements are within agreed-upon rules governing the semi-autonomous Ukrainian region.
Meanwhile, flights remained halted at Simferopol's airport. Dozens of armed men in military uniforms without markings patrolled the area. They didn't stop or search people leaving or entering the airport, and refused to talk to journalists.
AP journalists crossing into Crimea from mainland Ukraine were briefly stopped at a checkpoint manned by troops in unmarked camouflage uniforms as well as officers in uniforms of the Berkut, the feared riot police that cracked down on anti-Yanukovych protesters before he fled the capital a week ago.
___
Vladimir Isachenkov reported from Moscow. AP reporters Karl Ritter and David McHugh in Kiev, Julia Subbotovska in Simferopol, and Cara Anna at the United Nations contributed to this report.
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http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/AMhkyPNyhLryh9VPrpcW9w--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTgwMDtweW9mZj0wO3E9Nz U7dz0xMTU2/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2014-03-01T082735Z_1569011061_GM1EA3119NF01_RTRMADP_3_UKRA INE-CRISIS-OBAMA.JPG

[runningdownthatdream]

... any other form of intervention might produce results which could be truly catastrophic.

Disturbing news reports from the BBC last night on the rise of the neo-fascists in Ukraine. Gangs wearing neo-Nazi regalia now strut the streets of Kiev and say what they want is a pure Ukraine purged of Russians and... yes... Jews. The same old story.

And there you have it which is exactly why 'the West' needs to stay the fuck out and let Russia clean up the mess and restore order. What's taking place in Ukraine isn't much different than what too place in Iraq after the war, Libya after Ghaddafi, Egypt after Mubarak, and what's occurring right now in Syria. Despots are often despotic for a reason: because it's the only way to maintain some sort of law and order no matter how specious. One just has to search online to find all the articles written before, during, and after the Ukraine incident to see just how much the nationalists are involved. Shame on the EU and the US for supporting this debacle and throwing their support behind fascists.

[Dino Velvet]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/01/can-ukraine-control-its-far-right-ultranationalists.html


World News

(http://www.thedailybeast.com/world.html) 03.01.14
Can Ukraine Control Its Far Right Ultranationalists?

Ultra-nationalist groups help win the struggle against Yanukovych, but now the country may struggle to put their violent, homophobic genie back in the bottle.
“The Right Sector was armed and will be armed till the time when it will be necessary,” said the man in camouflage in the video. As if to prove his words, he pulled anAK-47 machine gun out from under the table of a local Ukrainian parliament. “You did not give us this weapon and you will not take it away. Who wants to take away my machine gun, my pistol, my knives? Let them try! As Americans say, ‘God made every man different; Sam Colt made them equal!’ I will put aside my Kalashnikov only when order in Ukraine is restored.”

Posted on YouTube earlier this week, the video went viral (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOdnE_5-hUA), racking up more than 50,000 views in three days. Another Right Sector video popped up online this week, showing the far-right activist Olexandr Muzychko, aka “Sashko Bilyi.” The banner advertizes: “Watch the new video “Sachko communicates with a prosecutor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDxKuC4GNjk&feature=youtu.be)”! Click here!” In it, Bilyi roughly yells at the prosecutor of the Rivno region, snatching his tie and threatning to pull him to the Maidan trussed up by a rope. Interior Minister Arsen Avakov condemned the video as “not an exaggerated manifestation of the hunt for justice, but sabotage against people’s faith in possible order.” Bilyi may have thought he was clowning around, but his particular brand of hooliganism demonstrates the sort of problems the Right Sector may have as it looks to enter into national politics. Absolutely marginal before the events of the Euromaidan, the far-right helped win the struggle against Yanukovych and has gained some prominence—but now that the struggle is over, they just keep on fighting.
The Right Sector is a confederation of several right and far-right organizations and groups such as “Patriots of Ukraine,” the Social-National Assembly, Stepan Bandera’s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera) All-Ukrainian Association “Trident,” Kyiv Organization’s “White Hummer,” and the UNA-UNSO. The Right Sector trumpets the ideology of Ukrainian nationalism, which reaches its zenith in the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, which in its heyday was lead by Bandera. (He was assassinated by a KGB agent in Munich in 1959.) From 1942 to 1954, the group acted fought against the German and Soviet Armies. Now, its descendent organizations are dedicated to advancing the 20th-century throwback notion of the primacy of the nation-state. Their rhetoric may sound utopian (or dystopian), but it’s actually quite archaic. “If non-Ukrainians understand Ukrainians’ urge towards their nation, and are disposed to it and help in struggle, we are disposed to them too; if they are neutral and don’t prevent us in our struggle, we are neutral to them, too; if they object our right to be a nation-state and work against us, we are hostile to them,” Bandera once said.
Of course the role that the Right Sector played in the Euromaidan cannot be underestimated. When two months of protests in the streets got almost no attention from Yanukovych’s government and just tightened the screws on society—with parliament voting on new draconian anti-protest laws and pro-government thug squads kidnapping and killing civil activists—it was the far right that first started to talk back to Yanukovych in his own language. They were the first to throw Molotov coctails and stones at police and to mount real and well-fortified barricades. They were amongst those who burned two military troop carriers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_TAr-MbhEM) that attacked the barricades on February 18. The Euromaidan won thanks to the resoluteness of people who were ready to fight rather than to negotiate in parliament when any negotiation became pointless. But now the situation on the ground has changed and the role the far right will play in the future of the country is an open question.
As University of Ottawa political scientist Ivan Katchanovski writes: “The far right in Ukraine has now achieved the level of representation and influence that is unparalleled in Europe. A member of Svoboda, a name adopted by the Social-National Party in 2004, became the Minister of Defense. Svoboda members also control the prosecutor general office, the deputy prime minister position and the ministries of ecology and agriculture. The paramilitary right sector has de facto power at least in some Western Ukrainian regions, such as the Rivne and Volyn Regions. Anriy Parubiy, the commander of the “Maidan self-defense,” has been appointed the head of the National Security and Defense Council, and [Dmitro] Yarosh, the leader of Right Sector, is expected to become his deputy.”
Katchanovski and other analysts are concerned that people with radical views are not suitable for the dull routine of politics. German political scientist and expert in far right ideology, Andreas Umland, disagrees: “Svoboda is probably still to be counted as ultra-nationalist, but has a foreign policy agenda and electorate untypical for far-right parties.” Umland may be correct in part—on February 26, Right Sector management and Yarosh met with with Israel’s ambassador to Ukraine, Reuven Din El. “Our movement will adhere to a policy of tolerance unto national questions,” Yarosh declared to Din El. “We will give up and stop any manifestations of chauvinism and xenophobia.”
But there are several areas in which the Right Sector still holds outdated and ultra-conservative views. In his video address “Great Ukrainian Achievement: What does Right Sector struggle for?” Yarosh says: “We are against degeneration and totalitarian liberalism, but we support traditional morals and family values, against the cult of profit and depravity.” What Yarosh means here when he says ‘degeneration’ is ‘homosexuality.’ When he says ‘totalitarian liberalism,’ he means that the right of the nation trumps human rights. Right Sector websites actively use such strange terms as “liberal homodictatorship” when they talk about modern open Western societies. One should note that while the far right is good in fighting, they might prove very problematic for Ukraine’s modern, open future.
http://cdn.thedailybeast.com/content/dailybeast/articles/2014/03/01/can-ukraine-control-its-far-right-ultranationalists/jcr:content/image.crop.800.500.jpg/1393644712626.cached.jpg

[Dino Velvet]

Right Sector. The Great Ukrainian Reconquista - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Inu_-0dcSU)

Right sector. Ukrainian Revolution 2014 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJmHIXVK95Y)

[Stavros]

And there you have it which is exactly why 'the West' needs to stay the fuck out and let Russia clean up the mess and restore order. What's taking place in Ukraine isn't much different than what too place in Iraq after the war, Libya after Ghaddafi, Egypt after Mubarak, and what's occurring right now in Syria. Despots are often despotic for a reason: because it's the only way to maintain some sort of law and order no matter how specious. One just has to search online to find all the articles written before, during, and after the Ukraine incident to see just how much the nationalists are involved. Shame on the EU and the US for supporting this debacle and throwing their support behind fascists.

Yes, and no. The EU has been involved with the Ukraine as part of its 'European Neighbourhood Policy' which looks at those states on the borders of EU countries with a view to bringing them into closer economic relations with the EU, with the long-term potential for membership. On the one hand this looks reasonable if you consider that countries like Serbia and Moldova are on the borders of EU states but not part of the EU, on the other hand this policy also includes all of the North African states from Morocco to Egypt, as well as the Palestinian authority, Jordan and Syria. If someone can tell me how Egypt and Jordan can be part of the European Union without removing the word 'Europe' and replacing it with something else then I would like to hear it. Politics, rather than economics has been driving too much of EU policy in recent years, and it shows.

Nevertheless, what it means is that the EU can express 'an interest' or 'concern' with the Ukraine, but to me it is transparently part of the conflict with Russia and Putin's attempt to take that country back to a moment somewhere between Gorbachev and Yeltsin. An obvious concern is that the territorial integrity of the Ukraine has been violated in the Crimea by Russia - this is a clear violation of the Budapest Agreement of 1994 in which Ukraine declared itself a non-nuclear state and began to transfer all of its stockpile of nuclear weapons to Russia, in exchange for those security guarantees. For the US and the EU Russia's actions in the Crimea appear to be a clear violation of international law, but I don't see how anyone other than Putin can do anything about it, unless they want to send in a 'task force' to remove the Russians. The Crimea may be many things, the Falkland Islands it aint.

The issue of law and legitimacy is an interesting one -yes, Yanukovich was democratically elected, but he lost his legitimacy for the same reasons as previous Presidents, because he helped himself to the national wealth and disregarded the rule of law. He was forced from office by popular demonstrations, not always the best way of changing political leaders, but then impeached by a democratically elected parliament.

The existence of extremist elements in Ukraine is mirrored by extremist elements in Russia, because the history of these two countries has enabled such extremes to exist -if they appear distressingly visible in the Ukraine it is the usual reason -the broad mass of people do not speak with one voice, whereas a small organised group can stage demos, rallies and above all have the placards, badges and slogans at hand to wave at the cameras, something the tv loves, and it is no surprise to find these nutcases on tv telling the Russians to 'go home' when there is a distinct lack of news on what the majority of people in the Ukraine want. An early decision by Parliament to degrade the status of the Russian language was an emotional, and politically naive decision -the city of Kiev, as Kievan Rus in 882 was the birthplace of the Russian state -and the Ukrainian state -and Belarus, so the claims to legitimacy on the basis of language alone cannot stand.

Ukraine relies on Russia for its gas, as was shown a few years ago, the Russians can stop the gas any time they want. The co-existence of Russians and Ukrainians in Ukraine (and indeed, in Russia) and the different political affiliations across the Ukraine suggest that the problem of long-standing enmity between the two will be increased by the annexation of the Crimea, notwithstanding the curious history of this multi-cultural, multi-national, multi-religious peninsula which hosts the Black Sea fleet of the Russian Empire....

...one only hopes that a shooting war does not start; that 'acts of terrorism' do not take place. We are still living with the consequences of the end of the USSR, but I don't see what the 'west' can do other than use diplomacy to persuade both sides to avoid war and find a practical settlement of grievances. One also hopes that new political alignments within the Ukraine will sideline the neo-Nazis and in the long-term seek a mode of political representation that is not disfigured by the worst excesses of nationalism.

[Prospero]

So where do your sympathies lie, Dino, in the light of your background?

...and talking of the homophobic genie, its well and truly out of the bottle in Mother Russia.

[runningdownthatdream]

Yes, and no. The EU has been involved with the Ukraine as part of its 'European Neighbourhood Policy' which looks at those states on the borders of EU countries with a view to bringing them into closer economic relations with the EU, with the long-term potential for membership. On the one hand this looks reasonable if you consider that countries like Serbia and Moldova are on the borders of EU states but not part of the EU, on the other hand this policy also includes all of the North African states from Morocco to Egypt, as well as the Palestinian authority, Jordan and Syria. If someone can tell me how Egypt and Jordan can be part of the European Union without removing the word 'Europe' and replacing it with something else then I would like to hear it. Politics, rather than economics has been driving too much of EU policy in recent years, and it shows.

Nevertheless, what it means is that the EU can express 'an interest' or 'concern' with the Ukraine, but to me it is transparently part of the conflict with Russia and Putin's attempt to take that country back to a moment somewhere between Gorbachev and Yeltsin. An obvious concern is that the territorial integrity of the Ukraine has been violated in the Crimea by Russia - this is a clear violation of the Budapest Agreement of 1994 in which Ukraine declared itself a non-nuclear state and began to transfer all of its stockpile of nuclear weapons to Russia, in exchange for those security guarantees. For the US and the EU Russia's actions in the Crimea appear to be a clear violation of international law, but I don't see how anyone other than Putin can do anything about it, unless they want to send in a 'task force' to remove the Russians. The Crimea may be many things, the Falkland Islands it aint.

The issue of law and legitimacy is an interesting one -yes, Yanukovich was democratically elected, but he lost his legitimacy for the same reasons as previous Presidents, because he helped himself to the national wealth and disregarded the rule of law. He was forced from office by popular demonstrations, not always the best way of changing political leaders, but then impeached by a democratically elected parliament.

The existence of extremist elements in Ukraine is mirrored by extremist elements in Russia, because the history of these two countries has enabled such extremes to exist -if they appear distressingly visible in the Ukraine it is the usual reason -the broad mass of people do not speak with one voice, whereas a small organised group can stage demos, rallies and above all have the placards, badges and slogans at hand to wave at the cameras, something the tv loves, and it is no surprise to find these nutcases on tv telling the Russians to 'go home' when there is a distinct lack of news on what the majority of people in the Ukraine want. An early decision by Parliament to degrade the status of the Russian language was an emotional, and politically naive decision -the city of Kiev, as Kievan Rus in 882 was the birthplace of the Russian state -and the Ukrainian state -and Belarus, so the claims to legitimacy on the basis of language alone cannot stand.

Ukraine relies on Russia for its gas, as was shown a few years ago, the Russians can stop the gas any time they want. The co-existence of Russians and Ukrainians in Ukraine (and indeed, in Russia) and the different political affiliations across the Ukraine suggest that the problem of long-standing enmity between the two will be increased by the annexation of the Crimea, notwithstanding the curious history of this multi-cultural, multi-national, multi-religious peninsula which hosts the Black Sea fleet of the Russian Empire....

...one only hopes that a shooting war does not start; that 'acts of terrorism' do not take place. We are still living with the consequences of the end of the USSR, but I don't see what the 'west' can do other than use diplomacy to persuade both sides to avoid war and find a practical settlement of grievances. One also hopes that new political alignments within the Ukraine will sideline the neo-Nazis and in the long-term seek a mode of political representation that is not disfigured by the worst excesses of nationalism.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

The EU was always destined to become a political entity, in my view. The most powerful players have been empire builders for centuries and while WW2 may have put an end to their individual goals, the EU afforded them the ability to, collectively, rebuild and pursue the same policies which drove their empires. Napoleon, Bismarck, Pitt, and Hitler must all be kicking their desiccated corpses for missing the boat on peaceful unification - but I guess one can argue that Europe needed to go through countless wars to learn that peaceful unification was the only feasible path for long-term success. Ultimately though a 'united' Europe is merely a fiefdom presided over by Germany, France, and Britain with everyone else just bit players.

Ukraine history has been interwoven with that of Russia's for a very long time. Arguably, there would be no Ukraine without Russia and definitely no Crimea within Ukraine without that gift from Kruschev - which, by the way, the Russian parliament voted to rescind several years ago. as I see it, Russia may not have international law on its side but it certainly has the right and obligation to protect its interestes particularly when those interests relate to Ukraine.

[Prospero]

The crisis in Crimea could lead the world into a second cold war
The Kremlin believes the west has been instrumental in the unrest in Ukraine – and will take its revenge

Piece of Dmitri Trenin from the Carnegia Moscow centre - published in today's Sunday Observer in London

This is perhaps the most dangerous point in Europe's history since the end of the cold war. Direct confrontation between Russian and Ukrainian forces will draw in the United States, one way or another. While there is still time, it's extremely important to understand what each party involved is aiming for.

Over the last 10 days, Moscow has been unpleasantly surprised several times. First, when Ukraine's then president, Viktor Yanukovych, halted an operation which would have cleared his opponents from the positions they occupied in central Kiev. Given the clear order, the Berkut riot police were closing in on the Maidan – the protest movement, named after Kiev's Independence Square, whose leaders were desperately calling for a truce, – but suddenly the Berkut advance was stopped. Instead, Yanukovych invited the opposition for negotiations. The second surprise came when the negotiations turned into talks about Yanukovych's concessions, with the participation of three European Union foreign ministers.

The agreement, signed on 21 February, was a delayed capitulation by Yanukovych – who had been seen triumphant only a couple of days earlier. An even bigger surprise was the rejection of these capitulation terms by the radicals, and the opposition supporting Yanukovych's immediate resignation. Finally, the German, Polish and French governments, who had just witnessed the Kiev accord, raised no objection to the just-signed agreement being scrapped within hours.

Russia, whose representative had been invited to witness the signing of the 21 February document, but who wisely refused to co-sign it, was incensed. What Moscow saw on 21-22 February was a coup d'état in Kiev. This development led to a fundamental reassessment of Russian policy in Ukraine, and vis-à-vis the West.

Viewing the February revolution in Kiev as a coup engineered by Ukrainian radical nationalists from the west of the country – assisted by Europe and the United States – the Kremlin believed Russia's important interests were directly affected. First, Russian president Vladimir Putin's plans of economic integration in the post-Soviet space would have to do without Ukraine. Second, the fact that radical nationalist components were among the beneficiaries of the Kiev revolution left no doubt about Ukraine's future foreign and security policy and its domestic policies.

The Association Agreement with the EU, whose signature was suspended by Yanukovych in November 2013, would now be signed, putting Ukraine, in principle, on track to long-term integration with the EU. More ominously, the new Ukrainian government would revoke the 2010 law on the country's non-aligned status and seek a Nato Membership Action Plan, or MAP. (It was the issue of MAP which materially contributed to the 2008 war between Russia and Georgia). In domestic terms, the triumph of western Ukrainian nationalists threatened discrimination against the Russian language, including in the largely Russophone eastern and southern regions, and a separation of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church from the Moscow Patriarchate. The new official Ukrainian narrative, it was feared in Moscow, would change from the post-Soviet "Ukraine is not Russia" to something like "Ukraine in opposition to Russia".

Moscow has always been thoughtless, lazy and incoherent in its strategy towards an independent Ukraine. It preferred instead to focus on specific interests: denuclearisation; the Black Sea fleet; gas transit and prices; and the like. During the early days of the present crisis, it remained largely passive. Now, things are changing at breakneck speed. With the delicate balance in the Ukrainian polity and society which had existed since the break-up of the USSR no more, Russia has begun to act, decisively, even rashly. Again, there is hardly a master strategy in sight, but some key elements are becoming evident.

Russia is now seeking to insulate the Crimean peninsula from the rest of Ukraine – to prevent clashes between Kiev's military or police forces or Ukrainian nationalist paramilitary groups, on the one hand, and the locals, on the other, as well as to neutralise the Ukrainian police and military forces permanently deployed in Crimea. Moscow has given political, economic and military support to the local, pro-Russian elements who never accepted Ukraine's ownership of Crimea, which was transferred from Moscow's to Kiev's administration in 1954. Moscow now has two options: a confederacy between Crimea and Ukraine and Crimea's full integration into the Russian Federation (a relevant law is being adjusted to allow this).

With regard to eastern and southern Ukraine, Russia will seek to support those elements who resent western Ukrainian rule in Kiev. Rather than favouring their secession, Moscow is likely to support Ukraine's decentralisation up to federalisation, which would neutralise the threat of a unified anti-Russian Ukraine within Nato. The effectiveness of Russia's efforts to mobilise opposition to Kiev in the east and south will depend on the levels of wisdom and tolerance by the new authorities in Kiev. In the worst case, a unified Ukraine may not survive.

With regard to Kiev, Moscow has balked at recognising the "coup" which many Russian state-run media and officials call "fascist" or "neo-Nazi" – a reference to the collaboration between western Ukrainian nationalists and Adolf Hitler during the second world war. Russia has not recognised the provisional government and is only maintaining "working contacts" with Ukrainian officials. To poke Kiev in the eye, Russia gave the ousted President Yanukovych personal protection on its own territory, and organised his press conference in the southern city of Rostov-on-Don on Friday. The lack of legitimate authority – the Russians say the Rada, the Ukrainian parliament, is acting under pressure from the Maidan – gives Moscow a freedom to act in "lawless" and "rudderless" Ukraine.

Unlike in 2008 in South Ossetia and Abkhazia, Moscow decided not to wait for the first shot being fired before intervening: prevention, it now evidently believes, is better than counter-attack. As in 2008, however, recognition of a breakaway region by Moscow – this time, Crimea – may become the legal basis for a Russian military presence in the area beyond the terms of the 1997 Russo-Ukrainian treaty governing the status of the Black Sea fleet. This is unlikely to be a passing moment in Russian-western relations.

In Moscow, there is a growing fatigue with the west, with the EU and the United States. Their role in Ukraine is believed to be particularly obnoxious: imposing on Ukraine a choice between the EU and Russia that it could not afford; supporting the opposition against an elected government; turning a blind eye to right-wing radical descendants of wartime Nazi collaborators; siding with the opposition to pressure the government into submission; finally, condoning an unconstitutional regime change. The Kremlin is yet again convinced of the truth of the famous maxim of Alexander III, that Russia has only two friends in the world, its army and its navy. Both now defend its interests in Crimea.

The Crimea crisis will not pass soon. Kiev is unlikely to agree to Crimea's secession, even if backed by clear popular will: this would be discounted because of the "foreign occupation" of the peninsula. The crisis is also expanding to include other players, notably the United States. So far, there has been no military confrontation between Russian and Ukrainian forces, but if they clash, this will not be a repeat of the five-day war in the South Caucasus, as in 2008. The conflict will be longer and bloodier, with security in Europe put at its highest risk in a quarter century.

Even if there is no war, the Crimea crisis is likely to alter fundamentally relations between Russia and the west and lead to changes in the global power balance, with Russia now in open competition with the United States and the European Union in the new eastern Europe. If this happens, a second round of the cold war may ensue as a punishment for leaving many issues unsolved – such as Ukraine's internal cohesion, the special position of Crimea, or the situation of Russian ethnics in the newly independent states; but, above all, leaving unresolved Russia's integration within the Euro-Atlantic community. Russia will no doubt pay a high price for its apparent decision to "defend its own" and "put things right", but others will have to pay their share, too.

Dmitri Trenin is director of the Carnegie Moscow Centre.

[Dino Velvet]

So where do your sympathies lie, Dino, in the light of your background?

I'm an American and on the side of staying out of it. Like everyone else watching packs of crazy Slavs warring with each other. My grandparents left Russia hating Russia.

[Prospero]

World war three anyone?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570335/Former-British-Ambassador-Moscow-warns-Russia-invaded-Ukraine-difficult-avoid-going-war.html

[broncofan]

This is brinksmanship. The Russians know nobody wants to engage in full scale warfare with them over illegal actions taken in Eastern Europe. Does anyone really expect the U.S and Britain to send forces to fight the Russians because they violated the Budapest Memorandum? With all apologies to the Ukrainians and at the risk of sounding completely craven, that would be a hell of a commitment; truly crossing the Rubicon (or the geographic equivalent).

[Dino Velvet]

World war three anyone?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2570335/Former-British-Ambassador-Moscow-warns-Russia-invaded-Ukraine-difficult-avoid-going-war.html

Yeah but Boris Yeltsin signed it.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/09/21/article-1215101-00F2054400000191-185_468x286.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/06/17/article-1287342-006F570E000004B0-320_468x390.jpg
"And you get one as well."

http://images.nymag.com/images/2/daily/2009/09/20090921_yeltsinclinton_560x375.jpg

http://cs11033.vk.me/u5020977/109827897/x_0a9ff1fa.jpg

[Dino Velvet]

Mr Continental for President of Ukraine. EU Approved too.

http://bigportal.ba/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/11763-267x381.jpg http://khamillion.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/the-continental2.jpg?w=562

[runningdownthatdream]

This is brinksmanship. The Russians know nobody wants to engage in full scale warfare with them over illegal actions taken in Eastern Europe. Does anyone really expect the U.S and Britain to send forces to fight the Russians because they violated the Budapest Memorandum? With all apologies to the Ukrainians and at the risk of sounding completely craven, that would be a hell of a commitment; truly crossing the Rubicon (or the geographic equivalent).

Agreed - which is why it doesn't help the US government to be making big statements and posting Kerry over there. Unless Washington and Brussels are secretly trying to force Russia to act!

[envivision]

This is brinksmanship. The Russians know nobody wants to engage in full scale warfare with them over illegal actions taken in Eastern Europe. Does anyone really expect the U.S and Britain to send forces to fight the Russians because they violated the Budapest Memorandum? With all apologies to the Ukrainians and at the risk of sounding completely craven, that would be a hell of a commitment; truly crossing the Rubicon (or the geographic equivalent).

You see, that's why I am against the legalization of pot in the US..

What are you stating, Cheech & Chong? We should appease Tzar Putin?. Yes, just give him Crimea. He will go away. You know liberal idiots like you said the same thing 70 years... Give Poland to Hitler.... He will go away.

The US puts its legal signature on a piece of paper pledging it will uphold the territorial integrity of Ukraine in case they give up their nukes. Go ask Clinton, he signed it himself. Well, here we are now. Will the US keeps its words or not?

If your Obama does NOT have the balls to defend the honor of the US, then maybe he ought to resign and be replaced but somebody who will.

FYI, China is watching. Iran is watching. A mentally retarded butcher in N. Korea is watching to see what your Obama will do...

You do know that China has a score to settle with Japan, please tell me you do! We left the Japs defenseless after WW 2 - promising them again that we will defend them against China.... Sorry Japan, but the doped up liberals of America wants to appease DICTATORS and INVADORS.

What would stop China from invading Taiwan, genius? It is part of China , ain't it?. And the people there all speak chinese.

Your ignorant naive ball-less Obama is about to start WW3 without even knowing . Too bad, he just told the Pentagon he is cutting the size of the army in half.

RIP Ronald Reagan. You defeated the evil Soviet Union. Obama revived it.

[Dino Velvet]

Too hard to copy/paste in its form but an update on the happenings.
http://yahoonews.tumblr.com/post/78440354349


Ukraine in crisis: Russian fleet reportedly issues ultimatum: Surrender or 'face storm'

[Prospero]

What grown-up arguments from envision. Full marks. C'mon Obama what the fuck are you waiting for. Let's start a nuclear war.

Courtesy Of The Red, White And Blue (The Angry American) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruNrdmjcNTc)

[Prospero]

On a more considered note....

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/03/no-american-weakness-didnt-encourage-putin-to-invade-ukraine/284168/


No, American Weakness Didn't Encourage Putin to Invade Ukraine
In fact, we've pushed U.S. power further east than anyone could have imagined when the Soviet Union collapsed.
From The Atlantic Monthly by Peter Beinart

If you’ve listened to President Obama’s critics in recent days, you’ve almost certainly heard two claims. First, that under Obama, America is in retreat around the world. Second, that America’s retreat emboldened Vladimir Putin to invade Ukraine.

Let’s take the second claim first. Obama’s critics differ as to which moment of White House fecklessness spurred Putin to act. “Ever since the [Obama] administration threw themselves in [Putin’s] arms in Syria … I think he’s seen weakness. These are the consequences,” insists Tennessee Senator Bob Corker. House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers, by contrast, suggests, “The big one that started this was the absolute retreat on our missile defense system in Poland and Czechoslovakia.” Either way, there’s a causation problem. If it was Obama’s weakness—in the Middle East or Eastern Europe—that encouraged the Russian president to invade Ukraine, then how do Corker and Rogers explain Putin’s decision to do something similar in Georgia in 2008, back when George W. Bush was president?

Which brings us to assertion number one. It’s true that the Obama administration has withdrawn troops from Iraq and is withdrawing them from Afghanistan. But from where Putin sits, American power hardly seems in retreat. From his perspective, in fact, the reverse is likely much closer to the truth.

From where Putin sits, American power hardly seems in retreat.
To understand why, it’s worth casting one’s gaze back a couple of decades. Under Ronald Reagan, the frontier of American power in Europe was Berlin. Then, in February 1990, as East Germany began wobbling, Secretary of State James Baker journeyed to Moscow to discuss German unification. According to James Goldgeier, author of Not Whether But When, the definitive history of NATO expansion, Baker promised Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev that if the Soviets allowed Germany to reunify, NATO—the U.S.-led Western military alliance that took form after World War II—would not expand “one inch” further east, not even into the former East Germany itself. But as the year progressed, the White House developed different ideas, and by the fall it was clear that a unified Germany would enter NATO, no matter what the Russians thought.

The idea of admitting other Eastern European countries into NATO, however, was still considered recklessly provocative toward Russia. The New York Times editorial board and its star foreign-affairs columnist, Thomas Friedman, strongly opposed the idea. The eminent Cold War historian John Lewis Gaddis wrote that, “[H]istorians—normally so contentious—are in uncharacteristic agreement: with remarkably few exceptions, they see NATO enlargement as ill conceived, ill-timed, and above all ill-suited to the realities of the post-Cold War world.” George H.W. Bush’s national security advisor, Brent Scowcroft, was skeptical of the idea, as was Bill Clinton’s defense secretary, William Perry.

For his part, Russian President Boris Yeltsin warned that extending NATO violated the “spirit of conversations” between Baker and Gorbachev, and would produce a “cold peace” between Russia and the West. It didn’t matter. In 1995, NATO went to war against Serbia, and then sent peacekeepers to Bosnia to enforce the peace agreement that followed. This new, Eastern-European mission paved the way for further expansion. By 1997, it was clear Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic would enter the alliance. In 2004, NATO admitted another seven former Soviet bloc countries, three of which—Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia—had been part of the USSR. In 2009, Croatia and Albania joined the club. Six former Soviet republics—Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, Kazakhstan, Armenia, and Azerbaijan—now link their militaries to NATO’s via the “Partnership for Peace” program. All five former Soviet republics in Central Asia—Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, and Uzbekistan—provide NATO countries with some basing, transit, refueling, or overflight rights for use in the Afghan war.

From Putin’s perspective, in other words, the United States hardly looks in retreat. To the contrary, the post-Cold War period has brought one long march by America and its allies closer and closer to the border of Russia itself. But there was no reason to believe that Russia—which under Putin has been regaining its confidence on the world stage—would go on contracting forever. And by 2008, when Russia sent troops into parts of Georgia, it was already clear that NATO’s expansion onto former Soviet soil had come to a halt.

It had stopped for the same reason that General Dwight Eisenhower, determined at the end of World War II to keep the American death toll as low as possible, refused to push into Eastern Europe to prevent the USSR from dominating the region after the war. And for the same reason that President Eisenhower watched Soviet troops crush protests in Budapest in 1956, and President Johnson watched Soviet troops crush the Prague Spring in 1968. The frontiers of American power in Eastern Europe have long been set by Moscow’s willingness to send troops into countries where, by virtue of their geography, Russia is prepared to take casualties and the United States is not. (Just as the limits of Soviet power in the Americas were set in 1962 when John F. Kennedy proved more willing to risk war over Soviet missiles in Cuba than did Nikita Khrushchev.)

To say that the border of Western power has stopped expanding is not to say it has begun to contract. To the contrary, it’s still almost impossible to imagine any of the countries recently admitted into NATO falling back under Russia’s sway.

The frontiers of American power in Eastern Europe have long been set by Moscow’s willingness to send troops to countries where Russia is prepared to take casualties and the U.S. is not.
Geopolitically and ideologically, the West’s frontier has moved further east than almost anyone could have imagined a couple of decades ago. The bad news is that it has left the countries just beyond that frontier, the ones most eager to be connected to the West, terribly vulnerable. During the Cold War, Poland, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia shared that tragic fate. Today, Georgia and Ukraine do.

None of this remotely justifies Moscow’s crude and lawless invasion of Ukraine. The U.S. and its European allies should do everything possible to strengthen the government in Kiev politically, economically, and maybe even—clandestinely—militarily. And they should think creatively about what kinds of economic and diplomatic measures might hit the Russian elite where it hurts, with the hope of at least stopping a Russian conquest of all of eastern Ukraine. That such efforts may undermine Russian cooperation on other issues, like Iran and Syria, is a risk the West will have to take.

But the Obama administration will also have to tell Kiev’s revolutionaries that while it supports a unified, democratic Ukraine, it does not support an anti-Russian Ukraine. Russia will not permit it, and at the end of the day, the United States cannot protect Ukraine from Russia’s wrath. It’s a bit like Finland’s dilemma during the Cold War or Taiwan’s now. Even if Ukraine regains control over its domestic affairs, it will never enjoy complete control over its foreign policy. The U.S. has a moral obligation to support democracy and self-determination. But it also has a moral obligation not to make promises it can’t keep.

That was true before Obama, and it will be true after he’s gone. And it has nothing to do with America being in retreat.

[broncofan]

You see, that's why I am against the legalization of pot in the US..

What are you stating, Cheech & Chong? We should appease Tzar Putin?. Yes, just give him Crimea. He will go away. You know liberal idiots like you said the same thing 70 years... Give Poland to Hitler.... He will go away.

The US puts its legal signature on a piece of paper pledging it will uphold the territorial integrity of Ukraine in case they give up their nukes. Go ask Clinton, he signed it himself. Well, here we are now. Will the US keeps its words or not?

If your Obama does NOT have the balls to defend the honor of the US, then maybe he ought to resign and be replaced but somebody who will.

FYI, China is watching. Iran is watching. A mentally retarded butcher in N. Korea is watching to see what your Obama will do...

You do know that China has a score to settle with Japan, please tell me you do! We left the Japs defenseless after WW 2 - promising them again that we will defend them against China.... Sorry Japan, but the doped up liberals of America wants to appease DICTATORS and INVADORS.

What would stop China from invading Taiwan, genius? It is part of China , ain't it?. And the people there all speak chinese.

Your ignorant naive ball-less Obama is about to start WW3 without even knowing . Too bad, he just told the Pentagon he is cutting the size of the army in half.

RIP Ronald Reagan. You defeated the evil Soviet Union. Obama revived it.
I don't smoke pot. In my job, if they suspect you of any drug use they test you, and fire you. Most of your post is a bunch of ignorant drivel.

I don't think the U.S should unilaterally engage another nuclear power without first going to the U.N. or without building a coalition of some sort. But to resort to violence in the face of Putin's aggression could get us embroiled in a major conflict.

Nobody is saying that Putin should be able to annex Crimea or that the fact that there are ethnic Russians living there makes his actions legal.

And a final point, when Germany invaded Poland it was right wing isolationists who did not want us to get involved in conflict. And if you knew anything about WWII, you would use the Anschluss or Germany's annexation of the Sudetenland on the grounds that there were a lot of ethnic Germans there as a parallel.

Anyhow, you're a reactionary moron and your post looks like it was written by a third grader. Good luck with that.

[Stavros]

You see, that's why I am against the legalization of pot in the US..

What are you stating, Cheech & Chong? We should appease Tzar Putin?. Yes, just give him Crimea. He will go away. You know liberal idiots like you said the same thing 70 years... Give Poland to Hitler.... He will go away.

The US puts its legal signature on a piece of paper pledging it will uphold the territorial integrity of Ukraine in case they give up their nukes. Go ask Clinton, he signed it himself. Well, here we are now. Will the US keeps its words or not?

If your Obama does NOT have the balls to defend the honor of the US, then maybe he ought to resign and be replaced but somebody who will.

FYI, China is watching. Iran is watching. A mentally retarded butcher in N. Korea is watching to see what your Obama will do...

You do know that China has a score to settle with Japan, please tell me you do! We left the Japs defenseless after WW 2 - promising them again that we will defend them against China.... Sorry Japan, but the doped up liberals of America wants to appease DICTATORS and INVADORS.

What would stop China from invading Taiwan, genius? It is part of China , ain't it?. And the people there all speak chinese.

Your ignorant naive ball-less Obama is about to start WW3 without even knowing . Too bad, he just told the Pentagon he is cutting the size of the army in half.

RIP Ronald Reagan. You defeated the evil Soviet Union. Obama revived it.


a) "You know liberal idiots like you said the same thing 70 years... Give Poland to Hitler.... He will go away". The opposite is true -it was precisely because Germany invaded Poland in 1939 that war was declared.

b) "The US puts its legal signature on a piece of paper pledging it will uphold the territorial integrity of Ukraine in case they give up their nukes. Go ask Clinton, he signed it himself. Well, here we are now. Will the US keeps its words or not?" -the Budapest Memorandum of 1994 was an agreement to respect the territorial integrity of the Ukraine in return for it becoming a non-nuclear state -in the event of that integrity being violated the Agreement calls for 'consultation', nothing more, nothing less.

c) "We left the Japs defenseless after WW 2 - promising them again that we will defend them against China.... Sorry Japan, but the doped up liberals of America wants to appease DICTATORS and INVADORS". The occupation of Japan by US and British troops in 1945 ended with the San Francisco Treaty of 1951 whereby security guarantees were given to Japan by the US, this was consolidated in the Treaty of Mutual Co-operation and Security, 1960 which
grants the United States the right to military bases on the archipelago in exchange for a U.S. pledge to defend Japan in the event of an attack.
http://www.cfr.org/japan/us-japan-security-alliance/p31437
The Treaty stands to this day; US troops are stationed in Japan, and have been since 1945.

d) "Your ignorant naive ball-less Obama is about to start WW3 without even knowing . Too bad, he just told the Pentagon he is cutting the size of the army in half". Obama did not appoint a President in the Ukraine whose blatant corruption made a mockery of that country's attempt to reform itself in the post-Soviet era; the US has encouraged reform in Ukraine -and elsewhere- in the same spirit as President Reagan confronted the USSR with his 'Let Poland be Poland' campaign in the 1980s, but without the overly dramatic, inflated rhetoric of Reagan -did the USA have a right to intervene in Polish politics in the 1980s?

Obama was elected to give the USA a different, less strident voice, to draw back from military engagements that seemed to make a situation worse and appeared to have no end, and which have cost the USA several trillion $$$. It is up to a President of your liking to beat the drums of war, and send service personnel to their deaths in a foreign field -if he or she can get elected. Obama was democratically elected, get over it. Russia dominates Eastern Europe and the Caucasus -what can you do about it?

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73320000/jpg/_73320377_the-sun-front-page-03.03.14.jpg

[Dino Velvet]

BBC News Ukraine The far right groups patrolling Kiev
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBFU_TrWl4Q

[Dino Velvet]

UKRAINE : Rise of the right wing Extremists threaten to fill power vacuum in Ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYnzqP1RmnE

[Prospero]

Fairly clumsy russian propaganda. There is a radical right wing element, but in the Kremlin they are talking about a genocide against Russians in the Kraine. Arrant rabble rousing nonsense.

[envivision]

I don't think the U.S should unilaterally engage another nuclear power without first going to the U.N. .

Thanks for the laugh, bud. I needed that. So according to you , the US should go to the UN and get a green light for any action vis a vis Ukraine. I am not as smart as your Obumbum, but I am pretty sure that the USSR, err Russia, will VETO any ruling of such nature.

BTW, I don't blame O'Bummer. The guy is a certified idiot. I blame Clinton who put his signature on a piece of paper, knowing fully well the ramifications. In his defense, Monica was not hired in that period.

[Dino Velvet]

A side note. Broncofan is a responsible and intelligent fella who has too good'a sense to smoke marijuana. I'm the doper here.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Y6tVbALBNqc/TC3v38MyroI/AAAAAAAAA6M/bi45rLy3bew/s1600/vlcsnap-71599.jpg

[envivision]

Obama was elected to give the USA a different, less strident voice, to draw back from military engagements that seemed to make a situation worse and appeared to have no end, and which have cost the USA several trillion $$$. It is up to a President of your liking to beat the drums of war, and send service personnel to their deaths in a foreign field -if he or she can get elected. Obama was democratically elected, get over it. Russia dominates Eastern Europe and the Caucasus -what can you do about it?



So, according to the liberal elitist media that you excel in reading , the world should:

1.Turn a blind eye and let China invades and annexes Taiwan.
2.Turn a blind eye and let N. Korea fires nukes at S. Korea.
3. Turn a blind eye and let Argentina recaptures the Falklands islands.

What else, Rev. Al sharpton? . Maybe Mexico should take back California , too?. It is historically mexican territories and it is full of Mexicans.

[Prospero]

Even stupid people deserve a voice in any debate.

[envivision]

A side note. Broncofan is a responsible and intelligent fella who has too good'a sense to smoke marijuana. I'm the doper here.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Y6tVbALBNqc/TC3v38MyroI/AAAAAAAAA6M/bi45rLy3bew/s1600/vlcsnap-71599.jpg

I don't know the guy. But since he is from Denver, and since CO legalized doping , I am just making a connection.

[Dino Velvet]

I don't know the guy. But since he is from Denver, and since CO legalized doping , I am just making a connection.

I get it for medical use and give the Russian Mob about $800 cash per month. Probably better being legal there.

[broncofan]

Thanks for the laugh, bud. I needed that. So according to you , the US should go to the UN and get a green light for any action vis a vis Ukraine. I am not as smart as your Obumbum, but I am pretty sure that the USSR, err Russia, will VETO any ruling of such nature.

BTW, I don't blame O'Bummer. The guy is a certified idiot. I blame Clinton who put his signature on a piece of paper, knowing fully well the ramifications. In his defense, Monica was not hired in that period.
Any time you use force, you should first go through legal avenues for authorization of that force, and then failing that use diplomacy or build a coalition. If you have to act unilaterally, you do so out of true exigency.

You haven't stated what you think we should do except to insult everyone who has a contrary opinion. Are you saying we should prepare for war against Russia immediately? Because as soon as you say that you make yourself liable to look like a fool.

You say that every country is watching to see what we will do. This is the kind of schoolyard mentality we are trying to get away from. This idea that we embolden our enemies if we do not use violence at the first opportunity.

You know there are hundreds of countries in the world. I don't see why it is imperative that the U.S. immediately resort to violence to show strength or otherwise be responsible for North Korea, China, or any other power violating international law.

We have a country to run here. We can't involve ourselves in a brain-dead charade just because we think it will impress other countries. The day we start listening to people such as yourself, who can't even spell the word invader correctly (and who call the Japanese "Japs" while providing an ostensible defense), is the day we get ourselves involved in a truly apocalyptic war.

[Prospero]

Broncofan...you have a gift for understatement."...you make yourself liable to look like a fool. "

I love it...

[broncofan]

I don't know the guy. But since he is from Denver, and since CO legalized doping , I am just making a connection.
Since you were born in an outhouse, you must be a piece of shit. Connect dot one and dot two.

P.S I'm not from Denver, nor have I ever said I am from Denver, nor have I been to Denver, nor am I from Colorado (which means I can't be from Denver).

[broncofan]

Broncofan...you have a gift for understatement."...you make yourself liable to look like a fool. "

I love it...
And right when you say that, I accuse him of being born in an outhouse. My timing is terrible.

[Dino Velvet]

P.S I'm not from Denver, nor have I ever said I am from Denver, nor have I been to Denver, nor am I from Colorado (which means I can't be from Denver).

Aren't you from here anyway?

[broncofan]

Originally Dino. I am in D.C now.

[Dino Velvet]

Hey Prospero, I'm having problems posting my Russian Propaganda videos. You have any idea why the videos don't post? I have no idea if it's here or YouTube.http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/flags/flag-of-russia.gif

[runningdownthatdream]

You see, that's why I am against the legalization of pot in the US..

What are you stating, Cheech & Chong? We should appease Tzar Putin?. Yes, just give him Crimea. He will go away. You know liberal idiots like you said the same thing 70 years... Give Poland to Hitler.... He will go away.

The US puts its legal signature on a piece of paper pledging it will uphold the territorial integrity of Ukraine in case they give up their nukes. Go ask Clinton, he signed it himself. Well, here we are now. Will the US keeps its words or not?

If your Obama does NOT have the balls to defend the honor of the US, then maybe he ought to resign and be replaced but somebody who will.

FYI, China is watching. Iran is watching. A mentally retarded butcher in N. Korea is watching to see what your Obama will do...

You do know that China has a score to settle with Japan, please tell me you do! We left the Japs defenseless after WW 2 - promising them again that we will defend them against China.... Sorry Japan, but the doped up liberals of America wants to appease DICTATORS and INVADORS.

What would stop China from invading Taiwan, genius? It is part of China , ain't it?. And the people there all speak chinese.

Your ignorant naive ball-less Obama is about to start WW3 without even knowing . Too bad, he just told the Pentagon he is cutting the size of the army in half.

RIP Ronald Reagan. You defeated the evil Soviet Union. Obama revived it.

You got it America-Man! Way to go......mobilize the army, the navy, the air force and go on over to Europe and show them stupid Russians who is boss. But just a few things to consider while on the boat over:

1) Russia isn't Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Iraq, Panama, Afghanistan, or Libya. You might be surprised to learn Russia is a modern nation with an enormous well-trained military, a nuclear stockpile, and an almost 1000 year old history of warfare and especially all-out war. This means you will engage with a nation rife with nationalist fervour with the means and history to back it up. No America-Man you will not be fighting a small, poor, militarily weak foe - and with all due respect look how you've fared against those countries?

2) Where will you get the money to wage a war on the scale of the one you will need to wage against Russia? Ask China? Sell more near worthless bonds?

3) Who of your European allies have the enormous balls needed to take on Russia in their own backyard? Germany won't lift a finger. Nor France or Britain. Perhaps the Ukrainians, Poles, and Georgians? Maybe you'll offer some cash incentives to the Spanish, Portuguese, Greeks, and Italians?

4) Russia isn't Korea, Iraq, blah blah blah

[broncofan]

No America-Man you will not be fighting a small, poor, militarily weak foe - and with all due respect look how you've fared against those countries?

This is a good point, but you may hit his ego in the wrong spot. I personally think we are tough enough that we can fight Russia to a near stalemate and destroy the planet for a good xxx thousand years (what's the half life of uranium?).

Actually, I think we should fight them during the summer months. We invade in May, and then we adjourn in September when it starts to get colder. It will take a while but eventually we can accomplish nothing.

But we'll look tougher than hell in the process. It'll teach Putin not to ride around on horseback without his shirt on. In fact, that's what we should aim for when we negotiate a truce after ten years of fighting. By that time, Putin will look even worse without a shirt, so it will be worth it.

[Stavros]

So, according to the liberal elitist media that you excel in reading , the world should:

1.Turn a blind eye and let China invades and annexes Taiwan.
2.Turn a blind eye and let N. Korea fires nukes at S. Korea.
3. Turn a blind eye and let Argentina recaptures the Falklands islands.

What else, Rev. Al sharpton? . Maybe Mexico should take back California , too?. It is historically mexican territories and it is full of Mexicans.

I don't understand your points:
1. China doesn't have a proposal to invade Taiwan, it has always believed in 're-unification' but that is not the same thing -cf Hong Kong.

2. North Korea's missile capability, if you follow the news, has tended to begin with a launch closely followed by a plop into the sea, and I don't know the North has ever intended to 'nuke' the south, but that the nuclear weapons are there to intimidate the US and Japan.

3. When Argentina did invade the Falkland Islands a military campaign followed and Argentina lost -for all her bluster, Ms Kirchner has no real plan to try that again.

Diplomacy might look like weakness to you, but I think you will find that most of the military campaigns you seem to yearn for, have ended in diplomatic agreements. If the diplomacy works, it removes the need for military action, and that, at the moment is what we should aim for, and it is not a liberal or conservative position, but a rational one.

I am not Al Sharpton, I don't like him, and I am not much of a reverend either.

[runningdownthatdream]

This is a good point, but you may hit his ego in the wrong spot. I personally think we are tough enough that we can fight Russia to a near stalemate and destroy the planet for a good xxx thousand years (what's the half life of uranium?).

Actually, I think we should fight them during the summer months. We invade in May, and then we adjourn in September when it starts to get colder. It will take a while but eventually we can accomplish nothing.

But we'll look tougher than hell in the process. It'll teach Putin not to ride around on horseback without his shirt on. In fact, that's what we should aim for when we negotiate a truce after ten years of fighting. By that time, Putin will look even worse without a shirt, so it will be worth it.

:D don't get me wrong i believe if nukes were involved, the US has the capability to destroy the earth, much less Russia but that's exactly what gives Russia the edge right now - knowing that conventional war is off the table and that no-one wants a nuclear confrontation. Certainly Europe countries cannot engage in a conventional war in its backyard without considerable long-term damage. And while some European governments MAY put up some big talk, none of their respective populations will back it. No way will the US go it alone against Russia, if only from a logistics perspective. Putin and his people have surely considered all of it and know that the only recourse for 'the West' is to impose economic sanctions. And clearly they believe that risk is manageable.

[runningdownthatdream]

Fairly clumsy russian propaganda. There is a radical right wing element, but in the Kremlin they are talking about a genocide against Russians in the Kraine. Arrant rabble rousing nonsense.

How's this? Clumsy too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY#t=305

[broncofan]

The problem with using force promiscuously is that you make yourself look weak as a result. One of the main problems with the skirmishes the U.S has gotten into in the last several decades is that we committed troops without clear objectives. Without clear objectives you can never actually look like you achieve anything. You don't cow other nations by showing your willingness to fight. Instead you inflame them and make them want to push you beyond your limits both fiscally and militarily.

I think several historical precedents have been taken out of context. Some people think the fact that Hitler was able to get concessions from Chamberlain means that any time you attempt to negotiate before acting you are really appeasing a dictator. But you don't know someone will act in bad faith until they do. And you can't assume they will until they do. That doesn't mean we should acquiesce in the face of illegality, but we shouldn't commit troops unless we are really ready for a sustained war and have tried to find other means of solving the problem.

Then there's the issue of Reagan talking tough with the Russians. It was the type of bold gambit that either works or ends in catastrophe. That it didn't blow up in our face does not mean it could not have. The effect of Reagan's bombastic rhetoric on an already weakened Soviet Union has to provide one of the most deceptive and least instructive lessons I've heard of.

There is also the fact that Russia has been in conflicts where they've seen a large percentage of their population killed. We have not had to face a situation where our national existence was threatened. Does anyone, even someone as palpably stupid as Envivision, think we are ready to see five or ten million Americans sent home in body bags? Does anyone not think we should be absolutely certain we have to commit to that sort of conflict before we strike?

[Prospero]

Runningdownthedream. No. I mentioned that BBC report myself somewhere. I am not denying or defending the truth of a very unpleasant upsurge of some radical right wing elements. But that BBC report makes it clear to me they are an ugly minority, not running things as Moscow is proclaiming to justify its action. I am fervently anti fascist and anti racist, but Russia Today is a well established TV network funded by the Kremlin to push the official Russian line on everything. It is a propaganda network.

[Prospero]

This is an interesting background piece, published a couple of months ago, on the Night Wolves, the right wing biker gangs from Russia working as pseudo militia for Russia in the Crimea. These are not good people.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n19/peter-pomerantsev/forms-of-delirium

[runningdownthatdream]

Runningdownthedream. No. I mentioned that BBC report myself somewhere. I am not denying or defending the truth of a very unpleasant upsurge of some radical right wing elements. But that BBC report makes it clear to me they are an ugly minority, not running things as Moscow is proclaiming to justify its action. I am fervently anti fascist and anti racist, but Russia Today is a well established TV network funded by the Kremlin to push the official Russian line on everything. It is a propaganda network.

Fair enough - they may not be running things as it were but it is a fact that fascism and the ultra-right (not sure those can be separated from each other) have been on an upswing in Europe over the past decade. And whenever there is chaos these types of fringe groups tend to blossom and - through inertia or complacency on the part of the moderates - rise to the forefront. This is clearly evident in Iraq, Libya, Egypt, and Syria. Those countries are ALL facing secondary insurrections led by the extremists. Given the history of the region, it's not a stretch to envision the ultra-nationalists taking advantage of the breakdown in government to impose their will on areas outside Kyiv. I think Russia has a legitimate concern, and unlike the bloody UN or NATO or individual countries like the US/UK/Germany/France have taken decisive action to protect people of Russian ethnicity as well as its interests in the Crimea. Their action - though illegal - may actual prevent Ukraine falling in to complete chaos. I for one would have loved to see the aforementioned superhero club rush to the rescue of the Cambodians or the people of the Balkans or the Tutsi in Rwanda or the people of Darfur in Sudan.

I think Putin - for all his previous bombast - is acting in a very restrained manner. Just as they did with Georgia a few years ago.

[Dino Velvet]

http://dailycaller.com/2014/02/27/controversial-ukraine-party-receives-top-positions-in-new-government/


Ukraine party accused of anti-Semitism receives top positions in new government

11:29 PM 02/27/2014

As the fires die down from the turmoil in Kiev, a political party that has been accused of promoting anti-Semitism and xenophobia is set to reap the benefits of the new government arrangement.
The Svoboda Party will take control of not one, but three ministries in the interim government. (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-26/yatsenyuk-named-ukraine-prime-minister-as-default-battle-looms.html)
These posts include the deputy prime minister and the heads of the agriculture and environmental ministries. In addition to these positions, a Svoboda lawmaker was appointed the new prosecutor general (http://www.novinite.com/articles/158543/Kyiv+Post%3A+The+not-so-revolutionary+New+Ukraine+Government) in the interim government.
Svoboda’s leader, Oleh Tyahnybok, is one of the leading opposition figures during the recent crisis in Ukraine and met with Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain (http://www.businessinsider.com/john-mccain-meets-oleh-tyahnybok-in-ukraine-2013-12) when the former presidential candidate visited the tumultuous country last December.
Tyahnybok and other party leaders have been accused of making numerous anti-Semitic and racist remarks. In 2004, Tyahnybok urged his party in a televised speech to fight “the Moscow-Jewish mafia ruling Ukraine.”
In 2012, deputy party leader Ihor Miroshnychenko called actress Mila Kunis, who was born in the Ukraine, a “dirty Jewess,” (http://observer.com/2013/02/ukrainian-anti-semitism-and-mila-kunis-complicated-by-facebook-dictionaries/) which instantly drew international condemnation. Another party official, Yuriy Mykhalchyshyn founded a think tank called the Joseph Goebbels Political Research Centre, which was named as a tribute to the notorious Nazi propaganda minister.
Even the founding name and original name of Svoboda bear an eerie resemblance to the Nazis. They were founded as the Social National Party of Ukraine (http://www.salon.com/2014/02/25/is_the_us_backing_neo_nazis_in_ukraine_partner/) and adopted the “wolfsangel” rune as their party logo, which was also a symbol used by Waffen-SS divisions in World War II and is a popular icon among neo-Nazis.
But the party denies accusations that it is anti-Semitic and xenophobic. Tyahnybok has been aggressive in dismissing allegations that his party promotes these ideas.
“Svoboda is not an anti-Semitic party. Svoboda is not a xenophobic party. Svoboda is not an anti-Russian party. Svoboda is not an anti-European party. Svoboda is simply and only a pro-Ukrainian party. And that’s it,” Tyahnybok declared in an 2012 interview with The New York Times. (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/09/world/europe/ukraines-ultranationalists-do-well-in-elections.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0)
Its party platform makes no explicit statements of anti-Semitism or racism, but it does contain some curious items. (http://en.svoboda.org.ua/about/program/)
Examples include: creating a list that would detail the number of KGB agents within the Ukrainian government, banning “Ukrainophobia,” banning the advertising of tobacco and alcohol as well as banning the adoption of Ukrainian children to foreigners.
Svoboda received over 10 percent of the vote in the 2012 parliamentary elections in Ukraine (http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20824693) and received 37 seats in parliament — making them the fourth largest party in their country’s parliament.
Follow Scott on Twitter (https://twitter.com/ScottMGreer)Svoboda (political party) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_%28political_party%29)


Oleh Tyahnybok - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleh_Tyahnybok)


http://www.pieces-mercedes.com/01.03.07/oleg-tyanhybok.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0uFd6KFbXw8/UuqTXIeW44I/AAAAAAAAA0o/W8EdD8RNvoY/s1600/800_mccain_1.jpg

[runningdownthatdream]

This is an interesting background piece, published a couple of months ago, on the Night Wolves, the right wing biker gangs from Russia working as pseudo militia for Russia in the Crimea. These are not good people.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n19/peter-pomerantsev/forms-of-delirium

Indeed they are not.

[Dino Velvet]

Ukrainian nationalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_nationalism)

[Dino Velvet]

UKRAINE Extreme Nationalist In Charge Who Led Coup Against Elected Government 24Feb2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hqACqNQF4A

http://www.democracynow.org/images/democracy_now_logo.png

[envivision]

History repeats itself. In 1979 , USSR invades Afghanistan under the watch of peanuts farmer Carter. Fast forward to 2014 , when Russia invades Ukraine under the watch of Kenyan superboy Obummer. Morale of story.... Nobody in the world respects the US when you have a liberal castrated idiot running the show.

On the other hand, when Saddam invaded Kuwait on 08/02/ 1990, GH Bush steadfastly issued a stern warning the same night: 'This invasion will NOT stand'. The guy followed his words by actions. The world was a safe place until Bubba Clinton came to town.

p.s.: This thread is overpopulated by Kremlin apologists... probably doped up A -hole elitists from the liberal Northeast.

[Ben]

Did the U.S. Carry Out a Ukrainian Coup?

Did the U.S. Carry Out a Ukrainian Coup? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p84KzkdKZb4)

[Stavros]

History repeats itself. In 1979 , USSR invades Afghanistan under the watch of peanuts farmer Carter. Fast forward to 2014 , when Russia invades Ukraine under the watch of Kenyan superboy Obummer. Morale of story.... Nobody in the world respects the US when you have a liberal castrated idiot running the show.

On the other hand, when Saddam invaded Kuwait on 08/02/ 1990, GH Bush steadfastly issued a stern warning the same night: 'This invasion will NOT stand'. The guy followed his words by actions. The world was a safe place until Bubba Clinton came to town.

p.s.: This thread is overpopulated by Kremlin apologists... probably doped up A -hole elitists from the liberal Northeast.

If only politics was this simple -it isn't. You have not considered Zbigniew Brzezinski's claims that the Carter administration -advised by him of course- deliberately provoked the USSR to intervene in 1979 in order to drag it into an expensive military commitment -I recall seeing a photo in the press of Brzezinski firing a gun across the border from Pakistan- and though you think Carter was a weak President, you cannot deny that he maintained the primacy of the USA as a crucial intermediary in the negotiations between Egypt and Israel which led to the 1979 Peace Treaty which has remained in place and is an example of what diplomacy, rather than war can achieve. You may also be aware that after the onset of secret negotiations between Israeli and Palestinians representatives in Oslo, it was another Democrat -Bill Clinton- who in 1993 presided over the concluding stages of the only formal treaty so far between Israel and the Palestinians, another example of diplomacy achieving something war could not.

Strictly speaking, Russia has not invaded the Crimea -it has one of its largest naval bases there, but it is clear that sending troops to patrol the streets and occupy government buildings is a violation of the Budapest Memorandum of 1994, but it is hardly 'an invasion' grim though the situation is, with signs it is getting worse.

If you think a virile response of a virile President would be to send in the marines, are you suggesting the US marines are going to land in the vicinity of the nuclear-armed Black Sea fleet, one of the largest and strategically most important components of the Russian military, and what -'throw the Russians out'? 'Restore' Crimea to the sovereignty of a government in Kiev whose own authenticity is in doubt? This beggars belief -you don't have a casus belli, you don't have an exit strategy, in fact you don't have anything that makes sense other than rage and an evident dislike of President Obama.

Yes, there are times when a military solution seems the only option, and even when it works -except that in the case of Desert Storm Saddam Hussein had already pledged to King Hussein of Jordan to evacuate Kuwait but not at the point of a gun -the US and the Saudis wanted it done their way and the war followed, a war in which the Iraq, militarily exhausted after 8 years of war with Iran, and bankrupt, could not hope to win.

Diplomacy may fail, and war take over, but sometimes it works, and as I suggested in another post it may not look like a virile response, but it takes courage and does yield preferable results to a dismal relay of dead bodies being transported from the battlefield back home.

[broncofan]

You have not considered Zbigniew Brzezinski's claims that the Carter administration deliberately provoked the USSR to intervene in 1979 in order to drag it into an expensive military commitment.
If only that were the only thing he hadn't considered. He's been a member since 2007 and can't place a single person in this thread. He's looking at the name Zbigniew Brzezinski and probably thinks it's a KGB code that triggers a sleeper cell in the U.S.

[Prospero]

Stavros and Broncofn... have you chaps decided to major in Neanderthal politics ? I admire your determination to consider the serious issues raised by this fellow..

[Stavros]

Stavros and Broncofn... have you chaps decided to major in Neanderthal politics ? I admire your determination to consider the serious issues raised by this fellow..

Arguments are made, and responded to. All part of the chase. Talk now is of sanctions, which I think would be a mistake. Russia is already talking about changing the tariffs for gas exports to Ukraine (notwithstanding, or maybe because of unpaid bills) but any serious moves against Russia would make it less likely to get any positive movement on diplomacy in Syria as long as Russia is seen as being a key player in that conflict. I wonder if it is inconceivable to think of Ukraine separating into two states -? Although Czechoslovakia did it, the separation was amicable, and although Slovakia initially suffered more economically, there are claims their economy is beginning to improve. Yugoslavia dissolved into most of its constituent parts; Sudan has divided into two states; Scotland may become an independent state....it can happen, even where the population are so closely related. I think potential membership of the EU and NATO should be off the table for the time being whichever way this goes.

[Dino Velvet]

Russia Today anchor Abby Martin Criticizing Russian invasion of Crimea - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHYUPbnSs_0)

[Prospero]

I admire her guts. She has now been sent to the Crimea to "see the reality on the ground." lol

[Dino Velvet]

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-us-intelligence-russia-ukraine-20140303,0,4657644.story


CIA reportedly says Russia sees treaty as justifying Ukraine moves




By Ken Dilanian This post has been updated, as indicated below. March 3, 2014, 8:19 p.m.

[Updated, 8 p.m., March 3: WASHINGTON — CIA director John Brennan told a senior lawmaker Monday that a 1997 treaty between Russia and Ukraine allows up to 25,000 Russia troops in the vital Crimea region, so Russia may not consider its recent troop movements to be an invasion, U.S. officials said.
The number of Russian troops that have surged into Ukraine in recent days remains well below that threshold, Brennan said, according to U.S. officials who declined to be named in describing private discussions and declined to name the legislator.
Though Brennan disagrees that the treaty justifies Russia’s incursion, he urged a cautious approach, the officials said. Administration officials have said Moscow violated the treaty, which requires the Russian navy, which bases its Black Sea fleet in Sevastopol, to coordinate all military movements on the Crimean peninsula with Ukraine.]
The next day, Russian troops took up positions around key facilities in Crimea, and by nightfall the CIA assessed that Russia was in control of the region, officials said.
“This was not predicted,” said a U.S. official, who asked not to be named in discussing the classified briefings.
The intelligence officials defended their analysis, however, saying Putin may have made a spur of the moment decision to take military action.
U.S. intelligence agencies have “provided timely and valuable information that has helped policymakers understand the situation on the ground and make informed decisions,” said Shawn Turner, a spokesman for the director of national intelligence. “That continues to be the case. Any suggestion that there were intelligence shortcomings related to the situation in Ukraine are uninformed and misleading.”
The difficulty in predicting the Russian military moves echoed a similar intelligence gap in August 2008 when Russian troops backed separatist forces in South Ossetia against the republic of Georgia in a five-day war. The CIA was caught off guard at the time, officials said later.
A former CIA case officer, who also declined to be named in discussing sensitive issues, said that the agency’s focus on counter-terrorism over the last 13 years has undermined its ability to conduct traditional espionage against key adversaries, including Russia.
The CIA station in Kiev, Ukraine, “cannot be larger than two or three case officers,” the former official said. “Did they have sources that could have forecast Russian intentions? Almost certainly not.”
Another former senior intelligence officer with experience in the region said the CIA doesn’t have sources that could have forecast Putin’s plans in Crimea. But, he said, it shouldn’t be viewed as an intelligence failure if analysts didn’t anticipate the actions of Russian troops operating out of bases there.
“The presence of Russian troops there is a fait accompli, so nobody is going to be watching what’s happening in those bases,” he said.
A CIA spokesman rebuffed the notion that the agency’s espionage muscles had atrophied.
“Although we do not talk about our specific intelligence efforts, the agency is a versatile global organization that is more than capable of addressing a range of national security threats simultaneously and it does so every day," said spokesman Dean Boyd. "Anyone suggesting otherwise is seriously misinformed.”

[Dino Velvet]

http://rt.com/news/russian-troops-crimea-ukraine-816/


Russia is allowed to have 25,000 troops in Crimea...and other facts you didn’t know

Published time: March 04, 2014 20:07


Ukraine’s statement at the UN that 16,000 Russian soldiers have been deployed to Crimea has caused a frenzy among Western media which chooses to ignore that those troops have been there since the late 1990s in accordance with a Kiev-Moscow agreement.
Western media describes the situation in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea as if a full-scale Russian invasion were under way, with headlines like: “Ukraine says Russia sent 16,000 troops to Crimea” and “Ukraine crisis deepens as Russia sends more troops into Crimea,” as well as “What can Obama do about Russia's invasion of Crimea?”

It seems they have chosen to simply ignore the fact that those Russian troops have been stationed in Crimea for over a decade.

Russia’s representative to the UN, Vitaly Churkin, reminded on Tuesday that the deal surrounding the Black Sea Fleet allows Russia to station a contingent of up to 25,000 troops in Ukraine. However, US and British media have mostly chosen to turn a deaf ear.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov underlined that the country’s military “strictly executes the agreements, which stipulate the Russian fleet’s presence in Ukraine, and follows the stance and claims coming from the legitimate authority in Ukraine and in this case the legitimate authority of the Autonomous Republic Crimea as well.”

The Black Sea Fleet has been disputed between Russia and Ukraine since the collapse of the Soviet Union back in 1991.

In 1997, the sides finally managed to find common ground and signed three agreements determining the fate of the military bases and vessels in Crimea.

Russia has received 81.7 per cent of the fleet’s ships after paying the Ukrainian government a compensation of US$526.5 million.

Moscow also annually writes off $97.75 million of Kiev’s debt for the right to use Ukrainian waters and radio frequency resources, and for the environmental impact caused by the Black Sea Fleet’s operations.

According to the initial agreement, the Russian Black Sea Fleet was to stay in Crimea until 2017, but the deal was later prolonged for another 25 years.



The 1997 deal allows the Russian navy to have up to 25,000 troops, 24 artillery systems with a caliber smaller than 100 mm, 132 armored vehicles, and 22 military planes on Ukrainian territory.

In compliance with those accords, there are currently five Russian naval units stationed in the port city of Sevastopol in the Crimean peninsula:

The 30th Surface Ship Division formed by the 11th Antisubmarine Ship Brigade, which includes the Black Sea Fleet’s flagship guard missile cruiser Moskva as well as Kerch, Ochakov, Smetlivy, Ladny, and Pytlivy vessels, and the 197th Landing Ship Brigade, consisting of seven large amphibious vessels;

The 41st Missile Boat Brigade, which includes the 166th Fast Attack Craft Division, consisting of Bora and Samum hovercrafts as well as small missile ships Mirazh and Shtil, and 295th missile Boat Division;

The 247th Separate Submarine Division, consisting of two diesel submarines – B-871 Alrosa and B-380 Svyatoy Knyaz Georgy;

The 68th Harbor Defense Ship Brigade formed by the 400th Antisubmarine Ship Battalion of four vessels and 418 Mine Hunting Ship Division, which consist of four ships as well;

The 422nd Separate Hydrographic Ship Division, which includes Cheleken, Stvor, Donuzlav and GS-402 survey vessels as well as a group of hydrographic boats.

Besides the naval units, Moscow also has two airbases in Crimea, which are situated in the towns of Kacha and Gvardeysky.

The Russian coastal forces in Ukraine consist of the 1096th Separate Anti-Aircraft Missile Regiment in Sevastopol and the 810th Marine Brigade, which hosts around 2,000 marines.

Several other coastal units of the Black Sea Fleet are located in Russia’s Krasnodar Region, including the 11th Separate Coastal Missile Brigade in Anapa, the 382th Separate Marine Battalion, and a naval reconnaissance station in Temryuk.

Last week, Russia’s Federation Council unanimously approved President Vladimir Putin’s request to send the country’s military forces to Ukraine to ensure peace and order in the region “until the socio-political situation in the country is stabilized.”

However, the final say about deploying troops lies with Putin, who hasn’t yet made such a decision, stressing that deploying military force would be a last resort.

Authorities in the Ukrainian Autonomous Republic of Crimea – where more than half the population is Russian – requested Moscow’s assistance after the self-proclaimed government in Kiev introduced a law abolishing the use of languages other than Ukrainian in official circumstances.

[Dino Velvet]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26415508

[Dino Velvet]

Now your Larry King defect. Ah-Ha-Ha-Ha!

RT Exclusive: Larry King on Putin's 'it' factor - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2ecNcbSCiU)

http://www.radiotv.cz/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/rt-russia-today-larry-king-670.jpg

[Stavros]

Is Larry King speaking from beyond the grave?

[broncofan]

I wonder if it is inconceivable to think of Ukraine separating into two states -? .
This does sound like a sensible idea but I wonder if it would really be viewed by Russia as the intermediate stage in annexation. First, Crimea is carved out because it has a different character than the rest of Ukraine. Then Crimea becomes part of Russia because it's not viable as a stand-alone state, and it should belong to someone.

And I don't mean this as a joke but nomenclature is extremely important when it comes to creating new states (because the name could make the first rhetorical argument as to who should possess it in the long run). If Ukraine divides in two then what is the other state called? I strongly advise against Russia Minor.

[broncofan]

Is Larry King speaking from beyond the grave?
One of my favorite roast jokes of Larry King was during the Egyptian uprising. A comic said the last time Larry King covered an uprising in Egypt he interviewed Moses.

[runningdownthatdream]

One of my favorite roast jokes of Larry King was during the Egyptian uprising. A comic said the last time Larry King covered an uprising in Egypt he interviewed Moses.

You like Larry King jokes? Then check out this roast of Trump where LK was one of 'the dais' and subject to a lot of zingers!

The Roast of Donald Trump - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOlTM297CFE)

[Dino Velvet]

Is Larry King speaking from beyond the grave?

Ask him. He seems fairly confused about it as well.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8e8szsfOfD4/UBvsg27jnKI/AAAAAAAAEOk/RTDK6LgAOKk/s1600/Zombie-King.jpg

[Ben]

I like Abby Martin. I hope RT -- which is fully funded by the Russian govt -- respects her opinion.

RT Reacts After RT Host Condems Russia Over Ukraine Actions - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKa4ILTFs7Y)

[Ben]

RT Host Abby Martin Condemns Russian Incursion Into Crimea – On RT:

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/03/04/rt-host-abby-martin-condemns-russian-incursion-crimea-rt/

[Stavros]

This does sound like a sensible idea but I wonder if it would really be viewed by Russia as the intermediate stage in annexation. First, Crimea is carved out because it has a different character than the rest of Ukraine. Then Crimea becomes part of Russia because it's not viable as a stand-alone state, and it should belong to someone.

And I don't mean this as a joke but nomenclature is extremely important when it comes to creating new states (because the name could make the first rhetorical argument as to who should possess it in the long run). If Ukraine divides in two then what is the other state called? I strongly advise against Russia Minor.

I spoke with a specialist on the region overnight and his argument is that the Russians have been opposed to Ukraine becoming a member of NATO and the EU, that they consider the Ukraine to be part of their historic sphere of interest, something Ukrainians are well aware of and, indeed, for the most part accept, and that a show of force will be followed by diplomatic manoeuvers whose aim will be to keep Ukraine within the emerging Russian/Eurasian economic zone Putin wants to develop, even if to some people this looks like a resurrection of the USSR. The Crimea may opt for a more autonomous status, but within the Ukraine, which will enable Russia to deny it has been annexed and give Ukraine titular control over the territory. Elections in the Ukraine will produce another effective stalemate with an electorate split in half, but the country will hang together so the issue is whether or not Ukraine can produce a government that is (relatively) free of corruption and which develops trade with Russia and the rest of the world. Financially Ukraine is a mess, and it is problematic to deal on a small level with Russia because of the influence oligarchs have on key sectors of the economy, but it would reduce the fears of military conflict, unless of course someone decides to go shooting and it suddenly veers out of control. How secure these arguments are I don't know, but they sound workable. Russian trade with the EU is hugely important, the same is true of Ukraine, there is no reason to undermine it for political purposes whose end would hurt trade on both sides.

I think a lot of this posturing by the USA and Europe is part of the ongoing spat with Russia over Syria, and it would be counter-productive in that conflict to so alienate the Russians they make any settlement of the Syrian conflict dependent on non-Syrian issues.

[Janette Voerman]

You want to know a true about Ukraine does not look Russian television!!! There very much much taradiddle and propaganda counted on Russians and some citizens of Ukraine! Read and look the Ukrainian a web server sites only! Trust I from Kiev and here are not mass disturbances! Here are not fascists and radically adjusted elements! That was on Maydane this was the fight of the Ukrainian people against a dictator which brought to ruin Ukraine and led to a corruption and crime in a country to the extraordinary scope! The people of Ukraine got tired to live under the burden of crime! But it is not advantageous Russia and Putin therefore he accepts active voice in kindling of enmity between east and west of Ukraine!

[Janette Voerman]

From data of the social questioning only 12% citizens of Ukraine want to be in composition Russia! On all Ukraine mass protests pass with appeals it "Is not war" of "Putin leave home"! People talk that they need defence of the Russian army! Not whoever oppresses a right for not a single ethnic group resident in Ukraine! But why the Russian TV channels of it do not show that! And show the shots of two-week remoteness in Kiev on Maydane and give out it for Crimea!
Now even in Moscow people go out which do not want war of Russia and Ukraine! They are detained by a police and gives up for a grate!

[Janette Voerman]

Trust the people of Ukraine are simple and peaceful he does not want to war!!!

Слава Україні! Героям Слава!

[Janette Voerman]

you want to know a true about Ukraine look this web server site!

http://www.stopfake.org/

[Dino Velvet]

I also read this article in The Guardian.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/03/uk-seeks-russia-harm-city-london-document


UK seeking to ensure Russia sanctions do not harm City of London

Government document photographed outside No 10 states that 'London's financial centre' should not be closed to Russians




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Nicholas Watt (http://www.theguardian.com/profile/nicholaswatt), chief political correspondent
theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/), Monday 3 March 2014 14.28 EST

Britain is drawing up plans to ensure that any EU action against Russia (http://www.theguardian.com/world/russia) over Ukraine (http://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) will exempt the City of London, according to a secret government document photographed in Downing Street.
As David Cameron (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/davidcameron) said Britain and its EU partners would put pressure on Moscow after it assumed control of Crimea, a government document drawn up for a meeting of senior ministers said that "London's financial centre" should not be closed to Russians. It did say that visa restrictions and travel bans could be imposed on Russian officials.
The picture of the document was taken by the freelance photographer Steve Back, who specialises in spotting secret documents carried openly by officials entering Downing Street. The document was in the hands of an unnamed official attending a meeting of the national security council (NSC) called by the prime minister to discuss the Ukrainian crisis.

The document said Britain should:
• "Not support, for now, trade sanctions … or close London's financial centre to Russians."
• Be prepared to join other EU countries in imposing "visa restrictions/travel bans" on Russian officials.
• "Discourage any discussions (eg at Nato) of contingency military preparations."
• Embark on "contingency EU work on providing Ukraine with alternative gas [supplies] if Russia cuts them off".
• Specific threats to Russia should be "contingent and used for private messaging" while public statements should "stick to generic" point.
• Draw up a technical assistance package for Ukraine "ideally jointly with Germany".
• Pursue the "deployment of OSCE and/or UN (but not EU) monitors in Crimea and eastern Ukraine".
• Push the "UN secretary general Ban to take the lead in calling and creating a forum for engaging Russia on Ukraine".
• Accept an emergency summit of EU leaders to discuss Ukraine. This will now be held in Brussels on Thursday.

Government officials said that no decisions were taken at the meeting of the NSC, but they confirmed that the call in the document for London's financial centre to kept open to Russians reflected the government's thinking that it wanted to target action against Moscow and not damage British interests.
The prime minister told the NSC that the government may be prepared to support EU sanctions that would be targeted at Russian businesspeople seeking to visit the EU. There could also be a "dialling down" of economic co-operation.
But nothing would be agreed that could harm the British economy. One source said: "You want to make sure that the costs fall more on Russia than other people."
Downing Street trod a careful line during the day as it made clear that action would need to be taken on the diplomatic and economic – though not the military – front to punish Russia. But it does not want to give Russia an excuse to refuse to embark on dialogue with Ukraine and the EU.
The prime minister highlighted this approach when he said after the NSC: "What we want to see is a de-escalation rather than a continuation down the path that the Russian government has taken, violating the sovereignty and territorial integrity of another country. So we shall have to bring to bear diplomatic, political, economic and other pressures in order to make this point. That is the very clear message the whole world needs to send to the Russian government."
Downing Street had earlier ruled out a military response in the wake of the Russian takeover of Crimea. The prime minister's spokesman said: "The only avenue that is being pursued is a peaceful and diplomatic one. Our other G7 partners have been very clear about that as well." The prime minister agreed in separate phone calls with François Hollande and Angela Merkel that the international community should speak with one voice on Ukraine as it tells Russia that its actions are "completely unacceptable".
A No 10 spokesperson said: "In both calls, the leaders agreed that the international community should speak with one voice and send a clear message to Russia that its actions in Ukraine were completely unacceptable. They agreed they must continue to work very closely together in response to events in Ukraine including in preparation for the special European Council which has been called on Thursday. It would be important to be clear about the costs and consequences for the Russian government of continuing to violate Ukraine's sovereignty; and of supporting the people and government of Ukraine in support of their efforts to build an inclusive Government and tackle economic challenges.
"They agreed there could be an important role for the United Nations, and potentially other international organisations, in facilitating the dialogue between the Russian and Ukrainian authorities which is central to the shared objective of de-escalating tensions in the region."
Former US presidential candidate Senator John McCain said he was "disappointed" by the UK's position and said European countries were "ignoring the lessons of history".
Asked if it was right to avoid such sanctions, he said: "Of course not. I am not astonished, to be very frank with you. Disappointed, but not astonished."

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/3/3/1393874839219/THe-secret-document-carri-009.jpg
The secret document carried by an official in Downing Street.

[Ben]

RT’s Abby Martin Goes Off on ‘Corporate Media’ Propaganda During Piers Morgan Interview:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/rt%E2%80%99s-abby-martin-goes-off-on-%E2%80%98corporate-media%E2%80%99-propaganda-during-piers-morgan-interview/

Russia Today news anchor Liz Wahl resigns live on air over Ukraine crisis:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/06/russia-today-anchor-liz-wahl-resigns-on-air-ukraine

[envivision]

Clinton compares Putin's Ukraine moves to Hitler

Guess Ms. C agrees more with this middle school dropout then the liberal elitist Kremlin apologists from the northeast that embarrass this forum and this great country .

Stavros- denver dude- prospero : You owe me an apology.........

Read Fox News if you care about real news:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/05/clinton-keeps-pressure-on-putin-after-comparing-crimea-strategy-to-hitler/

[broncofan]

Clinton compares Putin's Ukraine moves to Hitler

Guess Ms. C agrees more with this middle school dropout then the liberal elitist Kremlin apologists from the northeast that embarrass this forum and this great country .

Stavros- denver dude- prospero : You owe me an apology.........
Read Fox News if you care about real news:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/05/clinton-keeps-pressure-on-putin-after-comparing-crimea-strategy-to-hitler/
I apologize for saying you were born in an outhouse. I should have said I suspect it. It's never good to state something with too much certainty. I also apologize that our public school system in this country and other custodial authorities clearly failed you.

The true mark of a moron is that they lose track of what they're arguing over to begin with. They end up declaring victory with evidence that doesn't make their argument.

I never said I thought Putin had clean hands. I said that committing troops at this moment without trying to find a way to avoid being locked in a battle with another military super power is brain dead. Why would a quotation from Clinton, whose husband you clearly don't see as a credible source, now be cited by you as proof of something? You would disregard her or slander her if she disagreed with you.

What you recommend; an all out assault on Russia, could lead to millions of people dead. The other actions you call for such as tough talk, is counter-productive and embarrassing behavior that could only lead to an unnecessary escalation of an already tenuous situation.

[broncofan]

already stated above

[Janette Voerman]

"The fascists of the future will name itself anti-fascists"
Winston Churchill

(http://www.google.com.ua/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDIQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FWinston _Churchill&ei=3DwYU6HhIaWLyAPoq4DgBQ&usg=AFQjCNFdcuMYcI8byVZqyp05Ld5Gj-NwsA&bvm=bv.62577051,d.bGQ)

[Prospero]

Envivision. An apology for what, you simpleton? Watch Fox for news... I'd sooner watch my bathwater drain.

Your postings over a long time have displayed your lack of neuronal connections.

This makes interesting reading.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/owen-jones-the-hypocrisy-of-the-great-powers-is-on-display-again-in-ukraine-9171396.html

[envivision]

UKRAINE SPLIT? Crimea set to hold referendum on whether to join Russia.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/06/crimea-leader-says-11000-pro-russian-troops-in-control-region/

Add this latest fiasco to team Hussein O'Bama's list of 'accomplishment' . In 2008, Michelle stated after the primaries that 'this was the first time ever she was proud of her country' (how soon the Lib. forget !). Well, in 2014, this is the first time that I am embarrassed of my country.

Forgive us Ukraine, we have failed you. Forgive us world. we lost our moral compass.

On a side note, can someone (i.e. the Kremlin apologists) explain to me what would stop, say Mexico, to hold a referendum to see if California wants to join them beaners. Historically, California was Mehican and is full of mehicans.

[Prospero]

So dear old red white and blue enraged Envivision, what exactly is YOUR solution?

I see you've chosen, for reasons beyond me, to describe your President as "Hussein" Obama... i guess you think that he is a secret Muslim and probably not really American.

Do you want to launch a pre-emptive thermonuclear strike on Russia? Great idea. The counterstrike coming will ensure that the US and most of Western Europe ceases to exist - and possibly most of humanity for the nuclear winter that would ensue would kill almost everything earth).

Just wandering with you subtle thinking skills what response you'd have in mind.

Do we need three bold right wingers like Thatcher, Reagan and a pope who'll single handedly defeat evil Russia.

I know the wishy washy liberals in London, Washington, Berlin and the rest of the western capitals aren't up to it. After all, they're Kremlin apologists.

I know... let's call on The Justice League of America.

[Stavros]

Clinton compares Putin's Ukraine moves to Hitler

Guess Ms. C agrees more with this middle school dropout then the liberal elitist Kremlin apologists from the northeast that embarrass this forum and this great country .

Stavros- denver dude- prospero : You owe me an apology.........

Read Fox News if you care about real news:



Other than not being from the north east, or a Kremlin apologist, I welcome your views, which are common amongst many people, not just in the USA.

What disappoints me is that you don't think things through to weigh up the alternatives. As I suggested in an earlier post, most of which you ignored, diplomacy rather than war has achieved more than you seem to want to acknowledge. It is true that wars often break out when diplomacy fails, yet it is equally true that many wars are followed by a resumption of the diplomacy that failed -is there any political problem that does not have a political solution? I don't think so, but sometimes the people involved refuse to engage with an alternative reality to the one they are fixated upon at the time.

I recommend Cultures of War, by John Dower, on the rationale that has been given for war by previous American administrations, if you read books you will, I think, realise how easy it is to start a war -a war costing trillions of dollars and thousands of lives -and how difficult, once it has begin, it is to stop the war.

Cultures of War: Pearl Harbor / Hiroshima / 9-11 / Iraq: John W. Dower: 9780393340686: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51wxk7y-XGL.@@AMEPARAM@@51wxk7y-XGL (http://www.amazon.com/Cultures-War-Pearl-Harbor-Hiroshima/dp/0393340686/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394123287&sr=8-1&keywords=cultures+of+war)

[Dino Velvet]

I know it's RT but listen to Ron Paul please.

Ron Paul: US shouldn't meddle in Ukraine - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MgnMlaJPjs)

[Ben]

I know it's RT but listen to Ron Paul please.

Ron Paul: US shouldn't meddle in Ukraine - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MgnMlaJPjs)

Paul sums it up succinctly: "We don't have any business there."
I mean, what if, say, we had a dispute with Mexico... then should Russia get involved? Or even, say, Canada. Say there was a dispute regarding the tar sands in Alberta. Should Russia then get involved?
It's an American mindset [much like the British had prior to WWII] and it's: we own the world.
I'm not saying we should be insular. And not care about the rest of the world. But take, say, Cuba. Well, as Paul has pointed out, and many others, too, you simply trade with them and establish good relations.
I mean, we've a trading relationship with the brutal dictatorship of Saudi Arabia. Why not Cuba? Well, we "lost" Cuba and the people of Cuba must be punished for their, well, independence.
Remember we lauded Boris "corrupt" Yeltsin because he was subservient to US power. We can't push Putin around in the same way. And that upsets us. I'm not saying Putin is a wonderful guy. But who is -- :)

And: Rachel Maddow...

Rachel Maddow Cringes At 'Awkwardness' Of U.S. Condemning Russia:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/04/rachel-maddow-john-kerry-ukraine-awkward_n_4896133.html

[Ben]

Putin or Kerry: Who’s Delusional?

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/03/05/putin-or-kerry-whos-delusional/


Venezuela is not Ukraine:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/04/venezuela-protests-not-ukraine-class-sturggle

[runningdownthatdream]

Paul sums it up succinctly: "We don't have any business there."
I mean, what if, say, we had a dispute with Mexico... then should Russia get involved? Or even, say, Canada. Say there was a dispute regarding the tar sands in Alberta. Should Russia then get involved?
It's an American mindset [much like the British had prior to WWII] and it's: we own the world.
I'm not saying we should be insular. And not care about the rest of the world. But take, say, Cuba. Well, as Paul has pointed out, and many others, too, you simply trade with them and establish good relations.
I mean, we've a trading relationship with the brutal dictatorship of Saudi Arabia. Why not Cuba? Well, we "lost" Cuba and the people of Cuba must be punished for their, well, independence.
Remember we lauded Boris "corrupt" Yeltsin because he was subservient to US power. We can't push Putin around in the same way. And that upsets us. I'm not saying Putin is a wonderful guy. But who is -- :)

And: Rachel Maddow...

Rachel Maddow Cringes At 'Awkwardness' Of U.S. Condemning Russia:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/04/rachel-maddow-john-kerry-ukraine-awkward_n_4896133.html

Wow Ben - you hit on some of my exact sentiments - vis a vis Mexico/Canada, Cuba, and Boris Yeltsin - that I had been planning to post about. No need now ;)

[envivision]

So dear old red white and blue enraged Envivision, what exactly is YOUR solution?

.

You want a solution? Fine, I will give you a simple and effective one. Borrow a page from the Gipper's book.

The great Ronald Reagan defeated the evil Soviet Union back in the late 80's - without firing a single shot on the Russians. How did he do it, you say? Easy, by waging proxies wars on the red commies, suffocating their finances, chocking their self-esteems, and showing the world how feeble they truly are.

From Afghanistan, to Central America (places like Nicaragua-El Salvador- Panama), to the middle east (e.g. Syrian-Israeli conflict in 1982), the Great Communicator was picking one side - usually the winning side- and going at it at the Reds. Kremlin was so broke in the 80's that for their parades they used to paint wooden posts and show them as new intercontinental ballistic missiles.

Fast forward 30 years later, the US can still wage proxy wars on Putin. Places like Syria, Iran, etc. are a good start. Have the US back the opposition in Syria to the butcher who is supported by Putin. Kick the mullahs ass in Iran. Strengthen our relations with KSA, Egypt, and Israel.

That's my friend, how Ronnie single handily won the cold war.

[envivision]

The only silver lining about the Ukraine's predicament is that Hillary C. can kiss goodbye the presidency. I must admit that I do find Hillary C. 10 times smarter than Hussein and she has more balls than he does.

2016 will be dominated by foreign policy debate and the status of the US in the world, especially after the fiasco called Hussein O'Bama.

Bad news for the liberals. American do NOT trust them on this matter. But, they do trust somebody else - somebody who is been tested- somebody who showed courage, resolve, and strength. Somebody who build rapport with the Europeans- the Latinos- the Asians- Arabs, etc.Somebody who is ready to lead when he gets a phone call at 3 am in the morning.

That person is Jeb Bush. A scion of American politics. A real American.

[runningdownthatdream]

The only silver lining about the Ukraine's predicament is that Hillary C. can kiss goodbye the presidency. I must admit that I do find Hillary C. 10 times smarter than Hussein and she has more balls than he does.

2016 will be dominated by foreign policy debate and the status of the US in the world, especially after the fiasco called Hussein O'Bama.

Bad news for the liberals. American do NOT trust them on this matter. But, they do trust somebody else - somebody who is been tested- somebody who showed courage, resolve, and strength. Somebody who build rapport with the Europeans- the Latinos- the Asians- Arabs, etc.Somebody who is ready to lead when he gets a phone call at 3 am in the morning.

That person is Jeb Bush. A scion of American politics. A real American.

So the truth comes out - you're Jeb Bush and you've just announced your candidacy for president and your foreign policy all in one fell swoop.........nice job!

[broncofan]

Paul sums it up succinctly: "We don't have any business there."But take, say, Cuba. Well, as Paul has pointed out, and many others, too,]
If many others have said it too, then why do we need to hear from this odious bigot and homophobe something that's common sense? I heard Ron Paul walked outside on a cold day and said it was cold once too.

Speaking of odious bigots, this envivision guy keeps saying Hussein Obama. I find it pretty disgusting when someone emphasizes Jewish middle or last names to make an argument, why do the Republicans do it with a Muslim name? In this thread he's used the words "beaners" and "Japs". A piece of shit and a genuine traitor to real American values.

Yes, why don't we conduct proxy wars at the expense of millions of non-American people's lives. We can let them pick up the pieces in their home countries and not have to worry about their lost limbs and broken lives.

[robertlouis]

So the truth comes out - you're Jeb Bush and you've just announced your candidacy for president and your foreign policy all in one fell swoop.........nice job!

So that would be the same Jeb Bush that rigged an election in 2000 to ensure that his brother could steal the presidency?

Just the kind of guy we need to defend democracy in the rest of the world...

[robertlouis]

Paul sums it up succinctly: "We don't have any business there."


That makes me a little queasy. And I don't understand the following that Ron Paul has. Yep, he's a libertarian, whatever the fuck that means, but he's a fascist when it comes to gay rights for one thing. Anyway, I digress.

Neville Chamberlain in September 1938 described Hitler's annexation of the Sudetenland thus, only for it to be swiftly followed by his takeover of all of Czechoslovakia and within a year saw the world plunged into the horrors of the Second World War:

"How horrible, fantastic, incredible it is that we should be digging trenches and trying on gas-masks here because of a quarrel in a far away country between people of whom we know nothing. It seems still more impossible that a quarrel which has already been settled in principle should be the subject of war."

Putin has already spoken about his desire to establish a Eurasian political and economic bloc to counter the expansion of the EU and with it, democracy.

Who's to say that the current crisis in Ukraine isn't a potential template for any other nation that was a constituent of the USSR and seeks to ally itself with the west? Sounds a bit like the Iron Curtain all over again, doesn't it?

Let's say that Belarus overthrows their post-Stalinist dictator Lukaschenko and votes to join the EU. Will it be the same all over again? And again and again? The west needs to ensure through diplomatic means and without resorting to conflict that the territorial integrity of Ukraine is maintained, or the same could well be the fate of each and every country on the periphery of the old USSR.

[robertlouis]

Here's another worrying and very unsavoury development. Maybe Putin and his supporters are right in part at least in calling some of the protesters, and now appointed to office in Kiev, fascists.

http://iacknowledge.net/nazis-come-to-power-in-europe-for-first-time-since-world-war-ii-where-is-the-outrage/

[Stavros]

You want a solution? Fine, I will give you a simple and effective one. Borrow a page from the Gipper's book.

The great Ronald Reagan defeated the evil Soviet Union back in the late 80's - without firing a single shot on the Russians. How did he do it, you say? Easy, by waging proxies wars on the red commies, suffocating their finances, chocking their self-esteems, and showing the world how feeble they truly are.

From Afghanistan, to Central America (places like Nicaragua-El Salvador- Panama), to the middle east (e.g. Syrian-Israeli conflict in 1982), the Great Communicator was picking one side - usually the winning side- and going at it at the Reds. Kremlin was so broke in the 80's that for their parades they used to paint wooden posts and show them as new intercontinental ballistic missiles.

Fast forward 30 years later, the US can still wage proxy wars on Putin. Places like Syria, Iran, etc. are a good start. Have the US back the opposition in Syria to the butcher who is supported by Putin. Kick the mullahs ass in Iran. Strengthen our relations with KSA, Egypt, and Israel.

That's my friend, how Ronnie single handily won the cold war.

Oh dear, what a simplistic, and confused account of history.

1) Did Ronald Reagan defeat the USSR in the Cold War? No. Did the US attempt to undermine the economy of the USSR by bogging it down in an expensive war in Afghanistan? Yes -but the Soviet economy would have collapsed without the Afghan war commitment - Hillel Ticktin spent years warning about the USSR's collapse but nobody took him seriously.

2) The USA was found guilty of violations of international law in Nicaragua in 1984 by the International Criminal Court, so it decided to boycott the court! For decades the USA had turned a blind eye to the human rights abuses in Nicaragua of the Somoza dynasty until the people of Nicaragua had said enough! A popular revolution was immediately followed by the creation of a Constitutional Commission made up of all political parties which drew up a new constitution and organised the free and fair elections which were won by the Sandinistas. The Reagan Presidency decided democracy was a violation of its interests in Central America and proceeded to fund terrorist acts against Nicaragua using proceeds from arms sales to Iran (America's No 1 enemy!) to arm the 'Contras' after Congress had limited the right to fund them (The 'Boland Amendment').
-there is a reason why El Salvador was engaged in a 'dirty war', as with Honduras -and of the three, Nicaragua, Honduras and El Salvador, which one is most closely engaged with the illegal drug trade flowing through Mexico into the USA? Could it be the ones which did not have a popular democratic revolution?
Blame it on Reagan, the President who presided over an explosion of drug abuse in the USA -then ask, who benefits from this trade?

3) "the middle east (e.g. Syrian-Israeli conflict in 1982)" -there was no Syria-Israel conflict in 1982 -the two countries have not fought a war since 1973. Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982 to smash the PLO which was based in Beirut; it is widely recognised that the long term impact of this invasion damaged Israel domestically, and internationally. Ronald Reagan's presidency mediated the withdrawal of the PLO from Beirut, placing troops from the USA and France in the country, the first time US troops had been sent to the front line of a Middle Eastern conflict since 1958 -the result was the worst single casualty of US troops in a conflict since the Vietnam war and before 9/11 -241 marines killed in a bombing, which led to the withdrawal of US troops from Lebanon, and Reagan's mission in shreds. The Civil War raging in Lebanon continued for years thereafter.

4) The 'hawks' around Ronald Reagan who did so much to steer the kind of policy initiatives you approve of, were appalled when he sat down with Mikhail Gorbachev and began to negotiate away the USA's nuclear arsenal. Reagan's measured attitude to Gorbachev and the USSR suggests that an uncompromising assault on the country did not happen; Reagan, using diplomacy, was prepared to compromise. The USSR was weak in 1985, it didn't need that much to push it closer to oblivion. Reagan had a walk-on role in this particular movie.

[Prospero]

this is some reaiistic thinking from a writer in the UK magazine Prospect.

Where is Ukraine Headed?
by Gregory Treverton (director of the Rand centre for Global risk and security)

The situation in Ukraine evokes eerie echoes of the Cold War, not to mention czarist preoccupation with what has come to be called Russia’s “near abroad.” The situation is dangerous, and in that circumstance, wishes are not policy. Neither is foot-stomping. The first task is not rolling back the effective occupation of Crimea by Russian troops, but trying to keep a bad situation from getting worse.

It is useful to begin with a clear-eyed appraisal of what we know and what we don’t. The most important “knowns” are two: Russia’s occupation of Crimea will not be undone unless and until Vladimir Putin decides to; and Ukraine has ceased to exist as a functioning state.

Take the two in turn. Neither western foot-stomping nor sanctions can force Putin to withdraw Russian troops or replace them with European observers to guard Crimea from a danger no one has yet seen. As Lyndon Johnson said: sometimes, like a mule in the rain, you just have to stand there and take it. Putin’s spokesman was, alas, on target when he made fun of threats to cancel the G8 meeting scheduled for June in Sochi or to expel Russia from the group. Europe’s dependence on Russian oil and gas means there is no stomach for sanctions against those exports. In any case, those sanctions, like ones against visas or assets, would take time to bite.

In an important sense, it is no surprise that Ukraine has ceased to function as a state. The surprise is that it ever appeared to. The divide between its east and west is yawning; parts of western Ukraine were annexed only through the force of the Red Army in 1939. Ukraine received Crimea as a “gift” from the Russian republic in 1954. Like other Soviet republics—but unlike Soviet satellite-states in eastern Europe—Ukraine came to independence with no semblance of a national organised military command.

So, too, the “known” category almost surely includes a Russian protectorate, in some form, over Crimea. Russian interests and entanglements begin with the Black Sea Fleet but run much deeper. And the populace generally seems to have welcomed the Russian occupiers.


Beyond that, Ukraine’s future is in the unknown column. Neither a loose federation nor a three-way split (East, West and Crimea) would be the end of the world—provided there were decent signs it is what “Ukrainians” desired. It surely is painfully plain in retrospect that Ukraine’s previous status quo could not endure.

In these circumstances, the touchstones for policy need to be generosity toward Ukraine and openness to Russia. Europe’s niggardliness toward Ukraine was hardly the cause of the previous government’s turn to Russia, but it did precipitate it. The crisis has brought long-simmering political issues to the surface. Now is the time to try to take dour economic prospects out of the equation. As Sir Winston Churchill famously said, it is better to jaw, jaw than to war, war. The same might be said of “pay, pay” in the form of an aid package for Ukraine.

Putin is the harder part. Stern words and firm lines are unwise when your target’s interests are strong and yours are relatively weak, all the more so if you can’t do much about that target’s transgression in any case. The last crisis, over Russia’s invasion of Georgia in 2008, began with foot-stomping but ended more in a whimper. The Bush administration was unwilling to risk escalation through sending troops, bombing key chokepoints or arming the Georgians.

This time around, while Ukraine is more important to Europe than Georgia, so too the risk of escalation is all that much more dangerous. Rather, this seems like the time for policy to hold its nose and engage Russia, not try to isolate it. This time around more creative diplomacy might seek to recognise Russia’s legitimate interests in Crimea while engaging Russia in a discussion of Ukraine’s future.

[Ben]

Typical of the liberal elite, as it were, by frightening the population with the ghost of Hitler. But, well, Hillary has gotta appear tough. (Why does the political class always invoke the name Hitler? I mean, that was 70 years ago. It was a different world, different times. I thought Saddam Hussein was the new Hitler -- ha ha!
Ahhh... the crazy political class.
Well, the liberal political class seems more bellicose at this point.
And, too, a President Hillary Clinton would feed the military-industrial-complex very nicely.

Hillary Clinton says Vladimir Putin’s Crimea occupation echoes Hitler:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/06/hillary-clinton-says-vladimir-putins-crimea-occupation-echoes-hitler

[broncofan]

That makes me a little queasy. And I don't understand the following that Ron Paul has. Yep, he's a libertarian, whatever the fuck that means, but he's a fascist when it comes to gay rights for one thing. Anyway, I digress.

Neville Chamberlain in September 1938 described Hitler's annexation of the Sudetenland thus, only for it to be swiftly followed by his takeover of all of Czechoslovakia and within a year saw the world plunged into the horrors of the Second World War:

"How horrible, fantastic, incredible it is that we should be digging trenches and trying on gas-masks here because of a quarrel in a far away country between people of whom we know nothing. It seems still more impossible that a quarrel which has already been settled in principle should be the subject of war."

.
I like this reading of any Chamberlain lesson better. Absolute isolationism is callous and irresponsible. You cannot abdicate responsibility simply because those affected come from a different region of the world.

If a country were to begin building a system of concentration camps, Ron Paul would ask, "are any of the victims American?". There is a place for American intervention, somewhere between arbitrarily attacking countries and completely ignoring the plight of victims of genocide. I only mention the region of the world this conflict is taking place in to highlight the danger attending Western intervention. It would be to meet the lion in the lion's den.

I think Chamberlain's legacy suffers from terrible hindsight bias. That's not to say I think his actions were proper, only that people judge his actions with information that could have only been obtained after he acted. They also judge him for failing to act under an anomalous set of circumstances, the full weight of which again, I don't think any person could have reliably forecasted. The lesson is not that diplomacy is the same thing as appeasement. It's that you can never be oblivious to what is going on in other parts of the world.

[dderek123]

Ron Paul is a nut that will never get elected into a position where he would do damage with his nutty ideas. I like a few of his core ideas but his stance on dissolving the federal reserve is naive and his views on gay marriage are too old fashioned.

I like him where he is since he brings an opposing view from the norm and he's charismatic. He's not your typical politician but he seems to be popular with young people. He's also done a few AMAs on reddit which is nice to see someone other than Obama using social media effectively.

http://i.imgur.com/AGDUt3Q.gif

[Ben in LA]

It all stems from Bengazi.

</sarcasm>

[Prospero]

It all stems from Bengazi.

</sarcasm>

Naaahhhhh it all stems from Eden.

[runningdownthatdream]

Naaahhhhh it all stems from Eden.

Is that close to Benghazi?

[Dino Velvet]

Ron Paul: The Farther We Stay Away From Ukraine &#39;The Better&#39; - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm_FRG9Qa6M)

[Dino Velvet]

Rand Paul: Some In GOP Stuck In Cold War Mentality, Want To &#39;Tweak&#39; Russia Over Ukraine - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTzcZIlR534)

[Dino Velvet]

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-far-pravy-sektor-group-announces-presidential-bid-114851441.html


Ukraine far-right Pravy Sektor group announces presidential bid

http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/news/2013-08-26/d19448d6-6aaa-4359-a768-eadacf5fbca9_afp-gif_new.gif (http://www.afp.com/) March 7, 2014 6:48 AM




Kiev (AFP) - Ukraine's far-right Pravy Sektor movement on Friday announced its leader Dmytro Yarosh would make a presidential bid in elections scheduled for May 25.
The movement, which took a leading role in the deadly protests that unseated former president Viktor Yanukovych, will also become a political party."Dmytro Yarosh (https://www.google.com/search?q=Dmytro+Yarosh&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs) will run for president," Andriy Tarasenko, a senior member of the ultra-nationalist group was quoted by Interfax news agency as saying in Kiev.
Tarasenko said Pravy Sektor (Right Sector) would take part in mayoral elections in Kiev and local polls across the country also due on May 25.
"We remain the leaders of this revolution," said Tarasenko, adding that the movement was ready to fight if a full-scale war with Russia broke out.
"We are mobilising, we are preparing to react to foreign aggression," he said.
Although he paid tribute to Ukraine's interim leaders "who stood side by side with us on the barricades", Tarasenko also sought to distance Pravy Sektor from the pro-EU team led by interim president Oleksandr Turchynov.
"There has been no reset of power. Only the names in the government offices have changed," he was quoted as saying.
"Our struggle is entering a peaceful phase, a political phase and that is why we are going into politics," he said.
Tarasenko said a Pravy Sektor congress to transform the movement into a political party would take place on March 15.
Russia this month opened a criminal investigation against Yarosh for incitement to extremism and terrorism and is seeking his arrest.
Dmytro Yarosh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmytro_Yarosh)

Right Sector - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector)

http://syrianfreepress.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/yarosh-nationalist-address-umarov-si.jpg

[Ben]

Heard the One About Obama Denouncing a Breach of International Law?

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/03/03

[runningdownthatdream]

more consequences and - no surprise - the far right is ascendant

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/12/world/europe/adept-at-toppling-power-right-wing-ukrainian-learns-to-wield-it.html?hp&_r=0

[Ben in LA]

Lindsey inks it's Bengazi.

[Dino Velvet]

From yesterday in southern Russian city of Rostov-on-Don.

Yanukovich: I&#39;m alive, I&#39;m still president, I&#39;ll be back (FULL STATEMENT) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDAndXulEoY)

[robertlouis]

Lindsey inks it's Bengazi.

That man is the worst kind of American idiot, reducing a local crisis, albeit with potentially global implications, to a 'Murcan issue. Twat.

And flogging a very dead horse at the same time.

[Prospero]

Russians will veto UN vote This is such a mess

[Prospero]

The first casualty of war is truth....

Russia Today.... the TV show

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2574131/How-Russian-television-used-actress-pretend-five-different-people-opposed-revolution-reported-normal-Ukrainians-backed-Kremlin.html

[buttslinger]

A thousand years from now if kids in school know any individual from this era it will be Adolf Hitler. And they'll read about domination, bombing, execution, justified murder.

Give Russia Crimea and we'll take Syria. Like a game of RISK!

[Prospero]

You want to take on all the difficulties of Syria? Jeez

[buttslinger]

You want to take on all the difficulties of Syria? Jeez

Our CIA needs something to do.

[Dino Velvet]

Crimeans overwhelmingly vote for secession (http://news.yahoo.com/crimeans-overwhelmingly-vote-secession-203613036.html)

OK, if Crimea would be part of Russia(hypothetically) would not the Russians lose Russian voters/influence in Ukraine making it tilt more toward the West? What if things could take care of themselves? Does Putin want Ukraine willing to put the effort through or does he just want confrontation with the West to make him look like a strongman in front of his people? How easy are pipelines to sabotage too?

[envivision]

What does the South and Ukraine have in common? They both dislike Obama.

[envivision]

State TV says Russia could turn US to 'radioactive ash'

Moscow (AFP) - A leading anchor on Russian state television on Sunday described Russia as the only country capable of turning the United States into "radioactive ash", in an incendiary comment at the height of tensions over the Crimea referendum.

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"Russia is the only country in the world realistically capable of turning the United States into radioactive ash," anchor Dmitry Kiselyov said on his weekly news show on state-controlled Rossiya 1 television.

Kiselyov made the comment to support his argument that the United States and President Barack Obama were living in fear of Russia led by President Vladimir Putin amid the Ukraine crisis.

His programme was broadcast as the first exit polls were being published showing an overwhelming majority of Crimeans voting to leave Ukraine and join Russia.

He stood in his studio in front of a gigantic image of a mushroom cloud produced after a nuclear attack, with the words "into radioactive ash".

"Americans themselves consider Putin to be a stronger leader than Obama," he added, pointing to opinion polls which then popped up on the screen.

"Why is Obama phoning Putin all the time and talking to him for hours on end?" he asked.

Kiselyov has earned a reputation as one of Russia's most provocative television news hosts, in particularly with his often blatantly homophobic remarks.

But he is also hugely influential with his weekly news show broadcast at Sunday evening prime time.

Putin last year appointed Kiselyov head of the new Russia Today news agency that is to replace the soon to be liquidated RIA Novosti news agency with the aim of better promoting Russia's official position.

Kiselyov also made great play of Russia's so-called "dead hand" capability to fire nuclear-capable intercontinental missiles automatically in the case of attack.

The system, also known as Perimeter, was in use during the Cold War but its use in post-Soviet Russia is not officially confirmed.

But Kiselyov appeared to claim it remained active, giving Russia the chance to strike back even if its main command positions were taken out in a strike by the West.

"Even if people in all our command posts after an enemy atomic attack cannot be contacted, the system will automatically fire our missiles from mines and submarines in the right direction," he added.

The channel's graphic showed the line of a Russian missile heading towards the Pacific coast and the United States.

Pro-opposition news site slon.ru did not mince its words in describing the implications of Kiselyov's comments.

"This evening... Dmitry Kiselyov threatened the United States with a nuclear strike if the conflict over Crimea deepens," it said.

Russia and the United States are reducing their Cold War missile and nuclear warhead arsenals under the terms of the New Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty that entered into force in 2011.

Well, no need. Obama ALREADY DID

[Dino Velvet]

I've seen this one before.

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/8Rmn8vUZT10/hqdefault.jpg
"We will hit you Americans with nuclear strike if conflict over Crimea deepens.
Kremlin demands streets of Moscow will be paved in gold."

[Stavros]

OK, if Crimea would be part of Russia(hypothetically) would not the Russians lose Russian voters/influence in Ukraine making it tilt more toward the West? What if things could take care of themselves? Does Putin want Ukraine willing to put the effort through or does he just want confrontation with the West to make him look like a strongman in front of his people? How easy are pipelines to sabotage too?

I might be wrong but I think the bone of contention is that Russia has violated the 1994 Budapest Agreement in the Crimea. It may well be true that the Russian majority in Crimea want to be part of Russia as they once were, and had Khrushchev not given it away in 1954 it might never have been an issue. It seems odd though that having 'won' their independence in a referendum, they also say they want to be part of Russia, as contradictory as the claim by some Scots that they want independence from the rest of the UK, and then apply to join the EU.

As Dino points out, this suggests a reduced Russian vote in Ukraine now the Crimea has gone. One could argue that if the Tatar were the original inhabitants of Crimea, it is only Russian as part of the historic Russian Empire, but as Putin has lamented the break-up of the USSR I think it is now clear where he thinks the borders of Russia should be.

This raises questions of the Transnistria on the fringe of Moldova and Ukraine which is nominally part of Moldova and has a mixed population of Moldovans, Russians and Ukrainians, and which declared 'independence' in 1990 although nobody recognises it. After the war in 1992 the peace has been kept by Russians, Molodovans and 'Transnistrians'. Pro-Russian activists have followed the Crimean path and asked the Russian Parliament to draft a law taking 'TransNistria into Russia. Putin today said he is not in the expansion business if this flares up again it will be another sign that the transition out of the USSR is still unresolved for some small states.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26627236
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria#Demographics

The sanctions imposed by Britain on Russians are most peculiar, having singled out some Russians but not others -Nikolai Ryzhkov, for example, but not Roman Abramovich. Russians own a fair slice of expensive real estate in Mayfair, Kensington and Chelsea in London, and overall are estimated to have about £17bn in investments which is less than 10% of the total in the City (according to a City analyst on radio today).
The list of Russians affected by sanctions in this link beginning on page 13
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2014:078:FULL:EN:PDF


I don't think sanctions will do anything except make things worse, while Russia will, I think, harden its position on Syria. Russian exports of gas are mostly aimed at central and eastern Europe, they may raise prices on that. The pipelines are mostly underground so not immediately accessible to sabtoeurs. If an alternative supply to Russia was found, Russia would still have markets for its oil and gas in China.

[Dino Velvet]

I might be wrong but I think the bone of contention is that Russia has violated the 1994 Budapest Agreement in the Crimea. It may well be true that the Russian majority in Crimea want to be part of Russia as they once were, and had Khrushchev not given it away in 1954 it might never have been an issue. It seems odd though that having 'won' their independence in a referendum, they also say they want to be part of Russia, as contradictory as the claim by some Scots that they want independence from the rest of the UK, and then apply to join the EU.

As Dino points out, this suggests a reduced Russian vote in Ukraine now the Crimea has gone. One could argue that if the Tatar were the original inhabitants of Crimea, it is only Russian as part of the historic Russian Empire, but as Putin has lamented the break-up of the USSR I think it is now clear where he thinks the borders of Russia should be.

This raises questions of the Transnistria on the fringe of Moldova and Ukraine which is nominally part of Moldova and has a mixed population of Moldovans, Russians and Ukrainians, and which declared 'independence' in 1990 although nobody recognises it. After the war in 1992 the peace has been kept by Russians, Molodovans and 'Transnistrians'. Pro-Russian activists have followed the Crimean path and asked the Russian Parliament to draft a law taking 'TransNistria into Russia. Putin today said he is not in the expansion business if this flares up again it will be another sign that the transition out of the USSR is still unresolved for some small states.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26627236
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria#Demographics

The sanctions imposed by Britain on Russians are most peculiar, having singled out some Russians but not others -Nikolai Ryzhkov, for example, but not Roman Abramovich. Russians own a fair slice of expensive real estate in Mayfair, Kensington and Chelsea in London, and overall are estimated to have about £17bn in investments which is less than 10% of the total in the City (according to a City analyst on radio today).
The list of Russians affected by sanctions in this link beginning on page 13
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2014:078:FULL:EN:PDF


I don't think sanctions will do anything except make things worse, while Russia will, I think, harden its position on Syria. Russian exports of gas are mostly aimed at central and eastern Europe, they may raise prices on that. The pipelines are mostly underground so not immediately accessible to sabtoeurs. If an alternative supply to Russia was found, Russia would still have markets for its oil and gas in China.

Thanks Stavros. You addressed the concerns I had. Good info about the pipelines. Seems like our politicians here many times do things to try to look like they're busy in front of the public.

[Prospero]

Putting aside silly posturing by ill informed idiots who will take any excuse to whip a president they hate - and probably believe is not American anyway - it seems that the US and West are in a real quandary here. Economic sanctions as outlined thus far will have a negligible effect. China abstained at the UN security council - thus making it clear they will not go against Russia. The travel limitations on a handful of people are ludicrous. And the military option is frankly off the table. What else can we do? I see no easy answers. And what indeed do we do if Putin decides to extend his "help" to the Russians threatened by "extremism" in the Ukraine (or elsewhere in Eastern Europe).

American might? It simply cannot be bought to play in any meaningful way.

[Stavros]

There is another angle to the Crimea situation -offshore oil and gas potential which was owned by Ukraine who signed exploration contracts with Exxon and Shell are is now in a legal limbo; while Crimea gets its electricity and gas through networks based in the Ukraine.

From Bloomberg:
Without Crimea, Ukraine looks set to lose an important piece of its economic and energy future: valuable undersea oil and gas fields that lie just offshore the Crimean peninsula. Exploiting those Black Sea fields could help reduce Ukraine’s dependence on Russian gas imports.
And Big Oil had been interested: Before the overthrow of former President Viktor Yanukovych, Ukraine was on the verge of signing a deal with a group, including Exxon Mobil and Royal Dutch Shell, that was prepared to spend $735 million to drill two wells off Crimea’s southwest coast. “Exxon and Shell are now in a legal limbo,” Chris Weafer of Moscow investment group Macro Advisory told Bloomberg News. If Crimea votes in a March 16 referendum to secede from Ukraine, the government in Kiev “may soon no longer have jurisdiction over the region.”
Full report is here:
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-03-11/losing-crimea-could-sink-ukraines-offshore-oil-and-gas-hopes

On Crimea's electricity and gas supplies -extracts from a report (full report in link)
Although the overwhelming majority of Crimea’s two million inhabitants may identify culturally and linguistically more with Mother Russia than Ukraine, the past six decades as a Ukrainian province have meant that, in terms of energy and infrastructure, Crimea is very much Ukrainian, rather than Russian....
Although 2013 saw the completion of the of the 69.7 megawatt peak (MWp) The graphic below shows the extant natural gas transmission pathway for the Crimean peninsula. As can be seen, Crimea’s gas supply comes directly through Ukrainian territory, in fact, 65 per cent of the gas stream entering the Autonomous Republic is controlled by a single Ukrainian subsidiary.
Nikolayevka Solar Park in the Simferopol region which would cover almost seven per cent of the peninsula’s electricity needs, this graphic shows that Crimea is heavily dependent on Ukrainian power generation to meet its electricity demands. More than 80 per cent of Crimea’s electricity is imported from two cities in the southern part of the country, Kherson and Melitopol.
http://www.oilandgasiq.com/gas-oil-production-and-operations/articles/crimea-russia-natural-gas-power-oil-and-gas/?utm_source=1-5827904214&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=14+03+18+OGIQ+Newsletter&utm_term=140318OGNL&utm_content=140318OGNL&mac=OGIQ0073330&disc=

[robertlouis]

Steve Bell in Tuesday's Guardian rather sums up the west's helplessness in attempting to stop Putin. He doesn't give a damn and he doesn't have to either.

[Ben]

Is this the Cuban Missile Crisis II? Yes? No?

Noam Chomsky: Cuban missile crisis: how the US played Russian roulette with nuclear war...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/15/cuban-missile-crisis-russian-roulette

[Ben]

A New Cold War? | Jesse Ventura Off The Grid - Ora TV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fOEcOrmbjM

[envivision]

Putting aside silly posturing by ill informed idiots who will take any excuse to whip a president they hate - and probably believe is not American anyway -

You talking about me, you English snob ? Proud we kicked your hooligan arse in 1812. I might be an idiot , but I still have all my teeth.

[robertlouis]

You talking about me, you English snob ? Proud we kicked your hooligan arse in 1812. I might be an idiot , but I still have all my teeth.

You whipped our arse in 1812? Check your history book if you have one. We burned the White House down and torched Washington. Oh, and the Canadians "whipped your hooligan arse" after your abortive attack on Yorktown, now Toronto, and sent you back south with your tails between your legs. The Battle of New Orleans is a good song but it was just one incident in a war of almost three years.

In truth the war of 1812 to 1814 was pretty inconclusive and only came about as a result of American opportunism while Britain was fighting the Peninsular War in Europe.

But do try to get it right. Idiot.

[Dino Velvet]

We burned the White House down and torched Washington.

Please come back.

[robertlouis]

Please come back.

ROFLMAO. Dino, you're priceless. :Bowdown::Bowdown::Bowdown:

[Prospero]

Dino leavens everything with his humour. Bravo.

I am quite surprised meanwhile that the man with the confederate flag has figured out how to work the internet.

[Ben in LA]

Whenever I come to this site, my southern region always rises.

[Stavros]

I have to correct myself, as in a post I submitted yesterday I said Crimea voted for independence when of course the relevant question on the ballot paper read:

Are you in favour of the reunification of Crimea with Russia as a subject of the Russian Federation.

Interesting article in today's New York Times on the fate of South Ossetia and Abkhazia following their break with Georgia some years ago; not sure if Crimea will be in the same situation if the offshore oil and gas is taken over by Russian firms and delivers.

This is an extract, full article in the link

If History Is a Guide, Crimeans’ Celebration May Be Short-Lived



When Russia invaded Georgia, repelling a Georgian attack on South Ossetia and taking control of the separatist enclaves of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, it seemed most unlikely that the Kremlin was thinking about long-term consequences.
As in Crimea, the war was presented to Russians as a humanitarian effort to protect its citizens, and more broadly as a challenge to encirclement by the United States, which was aligned with Georgia. Television stations gave the intervention blanket coverage, and it was wildly popular in Russia, lifting the approval ratings of Dmitri A. Medvedev to the highest point of his presidency.
The aftermath of recognition, however, has presented Russia with a long series of headaches. This week, economists have warned repeatedly that Crimea, if it is absorbed, will prove a serious drag on Russia’s budget, but their arguments have been drowned out in the roar of public support for annexation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/19/world/europe/south-ossetia-crimea.html?hpw&rref=world&_r=0

[broncofan]

You talking about me, you English snob ? Proud we kicked your hooligan arse in 1812. I might be an idiot , but I still have all my teeth.
I can see why you dropped out of middle school. You must have scored below 50% on true false exams. You have two plausible choices. You can choose the war where we successfully rebelled against the British and forced Cornwallis' surrender at Yorktown with the Brits recognizing our sovereignty in the Treaty of Paris. Or you can choose a war that did not result in a change of boundaries and was essentially a costly stalemate. And somehow you choose the latter.

And where's your patriotism? In the U.S. we use the word "ass" as the slang word for buttocks. You're using the British/Australian variant of the term? If J. Edgar Hoover were alive, he'd start a file on you.

[robertlouis]

And where's your patriotism? In the U.S. we use the word "ass" as the slang word for buttocks. You're using the British/Australian variant of the term? If J. Edgar Hoover were alive, he'd start a file on you.

Damned upstart colonials the both of you. I've a good mind to cross over there and horsewhip you to within an inch of your unworthy lives. :dancing:

[broncofan]

Damned upstart colonials the both of you. I've a good mind to cross over there and horsewhip you to within an inch of your unworthy lives. :dancing:
I'm the upstart. He's an accommodating internationalist. Using British idioms and slang. I bet when he meets a Spanish speaker he rolls his r's. Far too liberal for me.

When I dump tea into the Boston Harbor it has nothing to do with Obama. I do it because I hold a grudge for a really long time. I'm thinking of making a drive up to Boston with a couple crates of earl grey. Perhaps you can recommend me a good tea?;)

[robertlouis]

I'm the upstart. He's an accommodating internationalist. Using British idioms and slang. I bet when he meets a Spanish speaker he rolls his r's. Far too liberal for me.

When I dump tea into the Boston Harbor it has nothing to do with Obama. I do it because I hold a grudge for a really long time. I'm thinking of making a drive up to Boston with a couple crates of earl grey. Perhaps you can recommend me a good tea?;)



I've spent a lot of good times around the harbour in Boston, as it happens. Great city. Legal Seafoods, anyone?

And I'm more of a darjeeling man myself, don'cha know. :dancing:

[buttslinger]

The oldest story ever told'''''


POWER

If it looks like WWIII is going to break out, I'm heading down to Nikka's house. I live too close to ground zero.

[envivision]

To the comatose liberals..... I am impressed O'bam took off his training weels.

[robertlouis]

To the comatose liberals..... I am impressed O'bam took off his training weels.

And the point of this is what exactly?

What do you think the west should do? Start a war? Nuke Moscow?

[envivision]

We are the laughing stock of the world.... Thanks a lot O'ban. The US today is as relevant as Mexico. Even peanuts farmer Carter had more swag in him. And Putin gets all the GIRLS.....

[Prospero]

It is wonderful to see how Americas Neanderthal class express themselves. I was going to say think, but thought is a little too complex for such an unevolved being.

[buttslinger]

Give envivision a break. It's pretty obvious he's going through a confusing stage dealing with his macho homosexual arousal, you've got to admit that Putin is a tall glass of Beefcake. I might like to toss his salad myself, if we were ever locked up in a gulag together.

[trish]

Возьмите мою задницу ублюдок. Возьми меня с вашей жесткой коммунистической ебать стержня.

[buttslinger]

Возьмите мою задницу ублюдок. Возьми меня с вашей жесткой коммунистической ебать стержня.

I love it when you talk dirty, Kamarade.

[Dino Velvet]

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-demands-ukraine-pay-back-11-billion-000927311.html


Russia demands Ukraine pay back $11 billion

http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/news/2013-08-26/d19448d6-6aaa-4359-a768-eadacf5fbca9_afp-gif_new.gif (http://www.afp.com/) 20 hours ago

Moscow (AFP) - Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev on Friday demanded Ukraine pay back $11 billion that he said Kiev had saved through discounted gas prices in return for hosting a Russian naval base in Crimea.
Ukraine owes the money because Crimea is now part of Russia and the two countries' 2010 lease agreement was now "subject to annulment," Medvedev said at a meeting of the Security Council.
"The Ukrainian state saved some $11 billion dollars and accordingly the Russian budget has a missed profit of the same $11 billion," he warned.
Soon after coming to power in 2010, then president of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych, agreed to extend the lease on Russia's Black Sea fleet in Crimea that was due to expire in 2017 for 25 years, until 2042.
In return, Moscow agreed to cut natural gas prices for Ukraine by $100 for every 1,000 cubic metres.
According to Moscow, Ukraine has been receiving the discount since 2010 even though the new lease agreement was not to enter force before 2017.
This week Russia officially made Crimea part of its territory despite condemnation from Kiev authorities and the West.
Medvedev, who signed off on the agreement with Yanukovych in his capacity as president in 2010, said it would be "absolutely legitimate" to seek the return of the money through courts even though he acknowledged such measures would be "tough".
He put Ukraine's total debt to Russia at $16 billion.
"I believe that we cannot lose such money taking into account the fact that our budget is also struggling," Medvedev said in comments released by the Kremlin.
Ties between Moscow and Kiev plunged to unprecedented lows after the Kremlin sent troops to Crimea following a popular uprising that ousted Yanukovych last month.
Washington introduced sanctions against Putin's close allies and urged Moscow to reconsider its takeover of Crimea.
Kommersant business daily reported earlier Friday that if the fleet agreement was annulled, Ukraine would end up paying up to $480 per 1,000 cubic metres for natural gas, the highest price of any of gas giant Gazprom's clients in Europe.
The expected gas price hike will deal a huge blow to Ukraine's struggling economy and is likely to exacerbate the raging political crisis.
End-of-the-year haggling over energy prices has become a familiar problem in bilateral ties, with Russia repeatedly cutting gas supplies to Ukraine and Europe over the past few years.

[buttslinger]

This is just like one of those Bruce Willis Diehard movies, the bad guys pretend to be political activists, but it's really about the money.

[Ben]

Obama to Putin: Do as I Say Not as I Do

by RALPH NADER

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/21/obama-to-putin-do-as-i-say-not-as-i-do/

[Ben]

Former U.S. Ambassador: Behind Crimea Crisis, Russia Responding to Years of "Hostile" U.S. Policy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox9iV6aGFLk

[buttslinger]

I've heard it said that World History is a product of the glands, ...I believe it.

[buttslinger]

I'm WAAAAAY too stupid to debate Trish and Stavros on anything, but I think they choose their words carefully, and I think they are pretty much always right. Ben has a remarkable conscience.
But I would like to add that on the world stage, mastering what is right is not enough, mastering what is wrong is just as important.
Putin probably has a 90% approval rating right now in Russia.
If Bush had given us gas for a dollar a gallon, built rocket bases along the Iranian and Syrian borders, and Iraqis were wearing levis and playing Beyoncé CDs, his face would be going up on Mt Rushmore.
The only thing missing from making the Republican Presidential Debates a complete Looney Tunes Cartoon was Sarah Palin. And WE'RE trashing Putin?

I think Obama is doing everything right and has an all too real vision of the part of Humanity that has maggots wriggling through it. But he is completely strapped by having to reverse 8 years of Bush Economics 101 with zero dollars.

Putin's position is he has to recover from what Reagan did to him!!
Crimea is a win/win. Putin gets to be the hero rescuing Mother Russia's lost children, and he gets a nice Natural Gas payday, seaports, he gets to stick it to Obama and the West.

If the Republicans ever find an Asshole as capable as Putin, lookout...

[runningdownthatdream]

It is wonderful to see how Americas Neanderthal class express themselves. I was going to say think, but thought is a little too complex for such an unevolved being.

Prospero see my post in the Malaysia Airlines conspiracy thread - Envivision isn't American. It appears he's from Quebec. So not only is he a troll, he's a troll with an identity crisis. Quebec provincial politics is the most corrupt and degenerate in North America not to mention their business practices (which would embarrass Wall Street) so it's quite rich of Envivision to involve himself in American politics, denigrate Obama, and advocate military force against Russia. If bad politics, racist and bigoted attitudes and legislation, and aggressive behaviour were cause for military force then Quebec should be invaded and brought to the yoke - again ;)

[Ben]

How Cold War-Hungry Neocons Stage Managed RT Anchor Liz Wahl’s Resignation:

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/how_cold_war-hungry_neocons_stage_managed_liz_wahls_resignation _20140319

[Dino Velvet]

It is wonderful to see America's Neanderthal

http://i614.photobucket.com/albums/tt221/My_Farts_Cause_Global_Warming/niccagesnlandysamberg.gif

[Dino Velvet]

http://news.yahoo.com/controversy-over-ukraines-tymoshenko-wipe-russians-leak-164225091.html


Controversy over Ukraine's Tymoshenko 'wipe out Russians' leak

http://l.yimg.com/os/publish-images/news/2013-08-26/d19448d6-6aaa-4359-a768-eadacf5fbca9_afp-gif_new.gif (http://www.afp.com/) By Dmytro Gorshkov 1 hour ago

Kiev (AFP) - Ukraine's former prime minister Yulia Tymoshenko was plunged into fresh controversy on Tuesday after Russian television broadcast a tape where she is heard urging the "wiping out" of Russians over Moscow's seizure of Crimea.
Tymoshenko, a hugely controversial figure both in Ukraine and Russia who was released from jail last month, confirmed the voice was hers but said some of the comments had been manipulated.
"This really crosses all the boundaries," Tymoshenko is heard to say in the leaked phone call posted on YouTube and broadcast extensively on Russian television Monday.
"One has to take up arms and go wipe out these damn 'katsaps' together with their leader," the voice said in Russian, without mentioning Putin by name.
The word "katsap" is a derogatory Ukrainian term for Russians.
During the conversation, Tymoshenko is said to discuss Russia's seizure of Ukraine's Russian-speaking peninsula of Crimea with Ukrainian MP and former government official Nestor Shufrych.
Tymoshenko, who spent three years in jail on what her supporters say were politically motivated charges of abuse of power before being freed last month, said if she were in power Moscow would not be able to take the peninsula.
"I am sorry that I am not able to be there and am not in charge of these processes, they wouldn't have had a fucking chance of getting Crimea off me."
"I would have found a way to finish off these bastards," the 53-year-old leader of the 2004 pro-democracy Orange revolution was heard as saying.
"I am hoping that I will use all my connections and will get the whole world to rise up so that not even scorched earth would be left of Russia."
Discussing the fate of Ukraine's eight million ethnic Russians with Shufrych, Tymoshenko was also heard as saying that they should be "nuked".
'Apologies for expletives'
"The conversation took place but (the part) about 8 million Russians in Ukraine is a montage," Tymoshenko said on Twitter.
"In fact I said: 'Russians in Ukraine are Ukrainians. Cheers to FSB," she said, referring to the Russian security service which she clearly believes were behind the bugging of the phone call.
"Apologies for the expletives," she added.
Tymoshenko is heard speaking Russian. The ex-premier puts huge emphasis on speaking only Ukrainian in public even though she grew up speaking Russian.
Tymoshenko is widely seen as the most charismatic figure in the fractured Ukrainian opposition movement.
However signs have emerged that she would have to fight hard to claw back support to return to big-time politics as opposition infighting intensifies ahead of a presidential election in May.
"Yulia Volodymyrovna pissed on herself," Crimea's pro-Moscow prime minister Sergei Aksyonov quipped on Twitter, referring to the ex prime minister by her name and patronymic.
Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov refused to comment on the leaked phone call.
"Timoshenko conceded that part of it was genuine but I cannot say what is the truth and what is not," he said.
Russian officials did not mince words however.
"The old death cap (mushroom) is trying to keep up with young toadstools," tweeted Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, referring to a new generation of far-right anti-Moscow activists in Ukraine.
Two lawmakers with Russia's Communist party have formally asked investigators to conduct a probe into the leaked tape.
In February, a leaked phone call was posted on YouTube and broadcast on Russian state television in which Washington's top diplomat in Europe, Victoria Nuland, was heard swearing about the EU's handling of the Ukraine crisis.
Washington has said at the time that Russian special services were behind the leak which was accompanied by Russian-language captions.
Russia sent troops to Crimea after a popular uprising ousted Tymoshenko's nemesis president Viktor Yanukovych from power last month and last week formally made it part of Russian territory.http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02862/Yulia-Tymoshenko-1_2862325b.jpg
"I am sorry that I am not able to be there and am not in charge of these processes, they wouldn't have had a fucking chance of getting Crimea off me."

"I would have found a way to finish off these bastards."

"I am hoping that I will use all my connections and will get the whole world to rise up so that not even scorched earth would be left of Russia."

[runningdownthatdream]

http://news.yahoo.com/controversy-over-ukraines-tymoshenko-wipe-russians-leak-164225091.html

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02862/Yulia-Tymoshenko-1_2862325b.jpg
"I am sorry that I am not able to be there and am not in charge of these processes, they wouldn't have had a fucking chance of getting Crimea off me."

"I would have found a way to finish off these bastards."

"I am hoping that I will use all my connections and will get the whole world to rise up so that not even scorched earth would be left of Russia."

Talk about pointless yet inflammatory rhetoric. She couldn't avoid being thrown in jail by Yanukovic nor could her supporters even get him to acquiesce on allowing her medical treatment but had she been in charge of things she would have stopped the #2 military power int he world? These so-called leaders are an embarrassment. No wonder they all hate Putin who's a man that at least does what he says.

[buttslinger]

The hatred between Ukraine and Russia goes all the way back to when Stalin used to execute Ukrainian peasants just so they wouldn't even think of disobeying. You have to be careful when you get in the middle of Indians and Pakistanis, or Palestinians and Israelis. You might get hurt.

I like Obama focusing on stopping a nuclear suitcase bomb going off in New York City. Putin can be punished for invading Crimea, but you can't un-do a mushroom cloud in Central Park.

[Dino Velvet]

The hatred between Ukraine and Russia goes all the way back to when Stalin used to execute Ukrainian peasants just so they wouldn't even think of disobeying. You have to be careful when you get in the middle of Indians and Pakistanis, or Palestinians and Israelis. You might get hurt.

I like Obama focusing on stopping a nuclear suitcase bomb going off in New York City. Putin can be punished for invading Crimea, but you can't un-do a mushroom cloud in Central Park.

I still say if Russia grabs Crimea Russia takes potential Russian support out of Ukraine which goes along with the peninsula. I would imagine that would position Ukraine closer to the West. Might be difficult to quiet down those Slavs especially the nationalist types. Putin still needs to keep his guard up against the Jihadis from underneath him too. Will cost lots of money being especially costly if the economy/currency is vulnerable.

The Republicans don't have a better plan as their strategy is basically to be as much against the Democrats as the Democrats would be against them if they were in the same position.

[runningdownthatdream]

I still say if Russia grabs Crimea Russia takes potential Russian support out of Ukraine which goes along with the peninsula. I would imagine that would position Ukraine closer to the West. Might be difficult to quiet down those Slavs especially the nationalist types. Putin still needs to keep his guard up against the Jihadis from underneath him too. Will cost lots of money being especially costly if the economy/currency is vulnerable.

The Republicans don't have a better plan as their strategy is basically to be as much against the Democrats as the Democrats would be against them if they were in the same position.

You could be right unless those natural gas, oil, and mineral resources that Crimea have are successfully exploited. In which case Russia wins in a big way AND Crimea ostensibly becomes a self-supporting region. I suspect the Russians already assessed Crimea's value - beyond the simple cultural and national interest - and know exactly what they're getting.

[Dino Velvet]

You could be right unless those natural gas, oil, and mineral resources that Crimea have are successfully exploited. In which case Russia wins in a big way AND Crimea ostensibly becomes a self-supporting region. I suspect the Russians already assessed Crimea's value - beyond the simple cultural and national interest - and know exactly what they're getting.

Very true as well.

[dderek123]

Also the Russian navy base in the Crimea is kind of a big deal. It's Vladdy's only navy base for the Black Sea. He doesn't want to give that up so taking that region for Russia will lock it down. No more lease payments!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c9/Project_1164_Moskva_2009_G1.jpg/800px-Project_1164_Moskva_2009_G1.jpg

edit: It isn't the only one.

Black Sea Fleet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_Fleet)

[Dino Velvet]

No more lease payments!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c9/Project_1164_Moskva_2009_G1.jpg/800px-Project_1164_Moskva_2009_G1.jpg

edit: It isn't the only one.

Black Sea Fleet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_Fleet)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/p480x480/282877_162517713944611_260978426_n.jpg
"You now pay eleven billion dollar and cute puppy stay with me."

[Dino Velvet]

http://kleuznt.foreignpolicy.com/files/kadyrovputin136021287.jpg
"I even get guerrilla cute puppy."

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/files/fp_uploaded_images/130515_tigerlounging.jpg

[fred41]

:)

http://dailycurrant.com/2014/03/07/ukraine-deploys-gay-men-to-scare-off-russians/

[Ben]

How Vladimir Putin became evil
The US and UK condemn him for Crimea but supported him over the war in Chechnya. Why? Because now he refuses to play ball:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/28/why-putin-crimea-strategy-west-villain

[Dino Velvet]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/18/putin-novorossiya-ukraine_n_5173559.html


Here's Why Putin Calling Eastern Ukraine 'Novorossiya' Is Important

The Huffington Post | by Nick Robins-Early (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nick-robinsearly)


Posted: 04/18/2014 9:47 am EDT Updated: 04/18/2014 11:59 am EDT

A casual listener may have missed it, but many Ukraine-watchers raised their brow when Russian President Vladimir Putin used the weighty term "Novorossiya (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/18/world/europe/russia-ukraine.html?_r=0)" or "New Russia" to refer to some regions in Ukraine on Thursday. "It's new Russia," Putin told the audience during his nearly four-hour long televised Q&A. "Kharkiv, Luhansk, Donetsk, Odessa were not part of Ukraine in czarist times, they were transferred in 1920. Why? God knows."
To give you a little background, "Novorossiya" is an archaic term for an area that was controlled by Russia during the imperial czarist times of the 19th century. In The New Republic (http://www.newrepublic.com/article/117284/federalized-ukraine-could-mean-return-novorossiya), Linda Kinstler explains that the name referred to "the formerly Ottoman territory that Catherine the Great conquered in the Russo-Turkish Wars," an area that is mostly comprised of what is now southern and eastern Ukraine.
When Putin chose to use this specific term to describe Ukraine's east on Thursday, many worried he was openly embracing the notion of an old imperial Russia, one which held control over what is now a sovereign country.
But Putin hasn't been the only one taking up the term recently. Rather, the president played into the slogans pro-Russia activists in eastern Ukraine have been chanting in recent weeks.
Reporting from Eastern Ukraine for Foreign Policy (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/04/17/novorossiya_is_back_from_the_dead_putin_russia_ukr aine), Christian Caryl writes that some of the protesters in the region have been using the term "Novorossiya" to refer to an autonomous region they want to create, one with strong Russian allegiances. Caryl adds that given the importance of these regions for the Ukrainian national economy, such a move would be a gigantic blow to the already cash-strapped (http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2014/03/ukraine-and-russia) government in Kiev.
In order to really understand why the use of "Novorossiya" is causing many to take note, it's also helpful to understand one more term: Irredentism. As political scientist Stephen Saideman defines it, (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/03/06/for-kin-or-country-why-the-crimea-crisis-is-not-about-a-greater-russia-project/) "irredentism is the effort to reunify a 'lost' territory inhabited by ethnic kin with either a mother country or with other territories also inhabited by ethnic kin."
By using the term "Novorossiya," Putin sounds like he's making exactly such a claim on the regions of eastern Ukraine, and even if it may be just a piece of political theater on his part, it's enough raise alarm.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/New_Russia_on_territory_of_Ukraine.png