Trouble in Dubai!!!

[CORVETTEDUDE]

WHY.....do you girls insist on going to this place. It never seems to end well.

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2014/01/brazil-transgender-women-accosted-detained-in-dubai-for-imitating-women/

[pantybulge69]

shit! ...i'm sincerely hoping they get only get deported and get back to their
home Brazil safely so they can never go back to that horror again.

[Ben in LA]

It's not like they weren't warned...they just didn't listen. Just sayin...

[Odelay]

Asian Phoenixx had a pretty harrowing experience there a few years back. I believe she was in a male prison cell for several months.

[tsmirandameadows]

Tourism in Dubai is a great mystery to me as well. Visiting Dubai would be a lot like visiting North Korea if it had a flashy resort city. Even if Dubai makes for a cheap luxury vacation, why would you ever give an autocratic de facto slave society the legitimacy of your tourism dollars?

[christianxxx]

hairdresser is code for hooker btw....also aesthetician, real estate agent, and massage or nail technician/therapist

[kj312]

I don't think Dubai is that cheap.

[the_corner]

"When the security staff saw that their registered names were masculine, they said they were subjected to further abuse."

Not very smart IMHO. They go to the UAE to work as prostitutes in a country were if you're caught you're in deep trouble... and to work as transgendered prostitutes which makes it even worst... and they go there with their passports carrying their "masculine registered names", that's the true definition of stupidity.

To be really honest, I'm impressed they made it through customs and immigration and all the way to the hotel before being detained.

[runningdownthatdream]

Not surprised - it's a muslim country that isn't Indonesia or Malaysia. I hope Maddygirl is reading this. A few months ago she was asking for opinions about going there and I advised against it but got shouted down by a few Islamophiles who suggested she go and enjoy herself since Dubai is a wonderfully enlightened place and muslims are terribly misunderstood.

[Kevin Dong]

Lina Cavalli got deported from Dubai last week too. She messaged me to let me know....in Russian of course. :-)

[TSMichelleAustin]

Crazy thing is I have had a few guys from Dubai hire me here in States... those men love tgirls and ones with curves! LOL

[TempestTS]

Ive been offered absolutely obscene amounts of cash many times to go over there for a weekend or more, no matter how outrageous and attractive the amount was I never even considered it for a moment.

[tao1kiku]

Absolutely. It's the chance to make a huge amount of money in a short period of time. But the consequences if caught are pretty horrible

[BellaBellucci]

Admiral Ackbar - "It's A Trap!" - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA)

~BB~

[TempestTS]

Absolutely. It's the chance to make a huge amount of money in a short period of time. But the consequences if caught are pretty horrible
Money doesn't talk, it swears. its pure Obscenity, its the worst thing this world ever came up with and money makes people do all kinds of things that they wouldnt do otherwise whether its hurting others or hurting themselves.

Thankfully I never put that much value on it to let it do that kind of harm.

[fivekatz]

WHY.....do you girls insist on going to this place. It never seems to end well.

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2014/01/brazil-transgender-women-accosted-detained-in-dubai-for-imitating-women/

Answer to question 1,The more taboo something is in any culture the highest its value on the black market and the more fancy hat market and its consumers come.

As to point 2.Risk I suppose. I doubt wo many people in transition actually think that Shiite or Suni societies could live with bitching chicks with impressive penises. Well ofcourse not, so there's the rub… reward with a serious risk,

[longestnamever]

So from the responses i'm gathering that the two knew the risks but went anyway due to the allure of insane money?

[christianxxx]

its not insane money, but its one of the better places in the world to escort. Some cities just seen to attract larger amounts of escorts than others...

when it comes to escorting a good rule of thumb for them is to clear 1000 US dollars per day for the length of the trip after expenses (flight, hotel, ad, food, etc). so if they work 10 days and come home with 10,000 US dollars after expenses...thats a good trip

now also remember how far 10,000 US dollars goes in Brazil.

London, Paris, Sydney, Dubai, New York City are the big 5 worldwide for high class escorting

[GroobySteven]

now also remember how far 10,000 US dollars goes in Brazil.

London, Paris, Sydney, Dubai, New York City are the big 5 worldwide for high class escorting


I remember how far it USED to go. It's not so alluring now but of course, Dubai has always been one of the places that female escorts can do well (and there are a fair few ladyboys working there also).

I'll probably visit for the F1 at some point but ensure the laptop is spotless and I haven't been around anyone smoking weed for a while.

[Stavros]

Tourism in Dubai is a great mystery to me as well. Visiting Dubai would be a lot like visiting North Korea if it had a flashy resort city. Even if Dubai makes for a cheap luxury vacation, why would you ever give an autocratic de facto slave society the legitimacy of your tourism dollars?

Not at all like North Korea. There are quite a few British people who have a second home in Dubai for the winter; Dubai hosts sporting events through the year (Tennis, Formula 1) and it also provides work for hundreds of thousands of Filipinos who would probably be unemployed at home. It might be naive to think the two Brazilians were not there to earn money as escorts, but it doesn't say that in the article. Caution should always be used when visiting countries like Dubai, and not just for transgendered visitors. Some people with prescription drugs have been arrested if they couldn't prove their doctor prescribed them.

[nysprod]

A few things in this article make no sense to me:

These trans women are hairdressers and they have all this money to go to Dubai...hairdressers don't make all that much.

Vacation in Dubai? There's nothing there but malls, skyscrapers and desert...and the sex police...of course, there's money there too but they're hairdressers on vacation, they're not there looking for money.

Ok, let's say these trans women do have the money to go to Dubai...if they're smart enough to get the money together for a trip like this they're smart enough to get information about the potential dangers.

And then what, they were detained 2 days and now they're released and giving interviews while they're still there?

No, something is missing here.

[christianxxx]

bro, did you even read my post?

[nysprod]

Yeah, the article said they're hairdressers, not escorts...if they would have been busted for prostitution the treatment would have been much mote harsh.

[LibertyHarkness]

Why any Trans would want to visit these places ruled by these religious nut jobs is beyond me, the risks are far to great .. sure you can have a nice time etc but if it goes pete tong then your in a world of shit . .. I did some work in Dubai pre transition and it was mental back then there is no way on earth I would set foot in that hole again as a TS .

Hope they get out in a few months without to much mental/physical damage to themselves .

[asianphoenixx]

Why any Trans would want to visit these places ruled by these religious nut jobs is beyond me, the risks are far to great .. sure you can have a nice time etc but if it goes pete tong then your in a world of shit . .. I did some work in Dubai pre transition and it was mental back then there is no way on earth I would set foot in that hole again as a TS .

Hope they get out in a few months without to much mental/physical damage to themselves .


why?

It's obviously money.

Actually it's not only money. Middle East, Dubai in particular, is a good place to transit, from North America to Asia.

It has everything from good food, food shopping, night life to gorgeous boys. Perfect place to spend for few days.

So while transiting, why not working at the same time?

I've been there 4 times. A week each time. the first three visits earning between 15-20 K. It's good, but i can earn that money too here in USA.

Then, i have some reviews in Arabic, and this is one of key factors for the upscale Arabs men to see good quality escorts, similar to here in USA.

And boom...I earn 80K in 4.5 days before getting arrested.
Most probably the highest earning escort in the country at the time.

My website was popular in the country, and the government detected it, and did some further research and finally found me working.

All the money was taken, so it's completely waste.

It's an experience.
80K is a lot of money, but at the end of the day, I prefer my freedom rather than staying in jail for almost 4 months.

A lesson to remember

[jenssch]

Yeah, the article said they're hairdressers, not escorts...if they would have been busted for prostitution the treatment would have been much mote harsh.

its not that hard to comprehend...

[christianxxx]

Yeah, the article said they're hairdressers, not escorts...if they would have been busted for prostitution the treatment would have been much mote harsh.

you are joking right....let me say this one more time....those 2 are 100 percent escorts. are you for real?

[christianxxx]

why?

It's obviously money.

Actually it's not only money. Middle East, Dubai in particular, is a good place to transit, from North America to Asia.

It has everything from good food, food shopping, night life to gorgeous boys. Perfect place to spend for few days.

So while transiting, why not working at the same time?

I've been there 4 times. A week each time. the first three visits earning between 15-20 K. It's good, but i can earn that money too here in USA.

Then, i have some reviews in Arabic, and this is one of key factors for the upscale Arabs men to see good quality escorts, similar to here in USA.

And boom...I earn 80K in 4.5 days before getting arrested.
Most probably the highest earning escort in the country at the time.

My website was popular in the country, and the government detected it, and did some further research and finally found me working.

All the money was taken, so it's completely waste.

It's an experience.
80K is a lot of money, but at the end of the day, I prefer my freedom rather than staying in jail for almost 4 months.

A lesson to remember

your numbers are absolutely fucking hilarious. i love your stories haahaha.

just to be clear the prince of dubai was bringing over famous porn stars for 3-4 days at a time and they weren't making what you claim. you gotta invent lower numbers. good lord.

[GroobyKrissy]

Ive been offered absolutely obscene amounts of cash many times to go over there for a weekend or more, no matter how outrageous and attractive the amount was I never even considered it for a moment.

Wait... those are REAL offers? I've always just considered them "Prince of Nigera" type things. I am going to answer the next one I get but ask to go to Mars instead. I want to introduce the doughnut shaped rocks there to the ladies.

I opened up a FB page recently and I think about 3/4 of the friend requests I got at first were all Arabic-related guys. Is that a normal thing? Meh... they don't seem to bother me so friends is friends, right?

[runningdownthatdream]

you are joking right....let me say this one more time....those 2 are 100 percent escorts. are you for real?

Are you implying that 2 trans hairdressers from Amazonas, Brazil having carefully assessed all their big-city vacation options - Paris, Barcelona, London, Moscow, Singapore, Hong Kong, New York, Bangkok - prudently decided to head to one of the most rigid, religio-fascist, homophobic parts of the world to shop and go bar-hopping without having ulterior motives? How dare you!

[runningdownthatdream]

your numbers are absolutely fucking hilarious. i love your stories haahaha.

just to be clear the prince of dubai was bringing over famous porn stars for 3-4 days at a time and they weren't making what you claim. you gotta invent lower numbers. good lord.

....and here you go again.....just because something sounds absolutely ridiculous and improbable can't you just suspend your disbelief for a moment and just accept it as fact!? C'mon man, the world would be a dull place without fictional accounts of experiences in far-flung places ;)

[nysprod]

you are joking right....let me say this one more time....those 2 are 100 percent escorts. are you for real?

Are you for real? First, I only went by what the article said...second, there's no way the Dubai police lets them go after 2 days and then allows them to give interviews...and my point anyway was that there were numerous inconsistencies in the article.


why?

It's obviously money.

Actually it's not only money. Middle East, Dubai in particular, is a good place to transit, from North America to Asia.

It has everything from good food, food shopping, night life to gorgeous boys. Perfect place to spend for few days.

So while transiting, why not working at the same time?

I've been there 4 times. A week each time. the first three visits earning between 15-20 K. It's good, but i can earn that money too here in USA.

Then, i have some reviews in Arabic, and this is one of key factors for the upscale Arabs men to see good quality escorts, similar to here in USA.

And boom...I earn 80K in 4.5 days before getting arrested.
Most probably the highest earning escort in the country at the time.

My website was popular in the country, and the government detected it, and did some further research and finally found me working.

All the money was taken, so it's completely waste.

It's an experience.
80K is a lot of money, but at the end of the day, I prefer my freedom rather than staying in jail for almost 4 months.

A lesson to remember

Of course, they likely followed you the whole time...it's easy for them to hack your phone and your computer and then set you up to steal your money.

[tsmirandameadows]

Not at all like North Korea. There are quite a few British people who have a second home in Dubai for the winter; Dubai hosts sporting events through the year (Tennis, Formula 1) and it also provides work for hundreds of thousands of Filipinos who would probably be unemployed at home.

So because there's some money there, it's not at all an autocratic society? And the "work" you speak of for Filipinos, Indians, and Malays has routinely been exposed as little more than indentured servitude, whre the managers of these migrant works confiscate their passports, delay wage payments by months or years at a time, cram them into living quarters where it's 12 to a room with hotbunking, and then have complicit police harass, beat, and arrest any worker who tries to complain or escape. It is de facto slavery. Dubai, like North Korea, is evil to it's core, and no amount of Formula 1 racing or five star hotels is going to change that.

[runningdownthatdream]

So because there's some money there, it's not at all an autocratic society? And the "work" you speak of for Filipinos, Indians, and Malays has routinely been exposed as little more than indentured servitude, whre the managers of these migrant works confiscate their passports, delay wage payments by months or years at a time, cram them into living quarters where it's 12 to a room with hotbunking, and then have complicit police harass, beat, and arrest any worker who tries to complain or escape. It is de facto slavery. Dubai, like North Korea, is evil to it's core, and no amount of Formula 1 racing or five star hotels is going to change that.

My sentiments exactly. Unfortunately too many Westerners are blinded by the Chanel perfume, Gucci handbags, Rolex watches, and Hermes scarves which have been used to mask the underlying shit that is the Middle East. The people who run things over there understand perfectly well what appeals the most to Westerners in general and Europeans in particular: Fashion, Football, and F1. If those things exist in an autocratic, repressive country then it becomes more palatable as a place of 'culture' worthy of high praise and vacation recommendations.

My fiancee happens to be a Filipina who worked in Jordan and Lebanon and I can relate stories from her about the treatment she and dozens of her compatriots experienced over there that would shock most of the Middle East sympathizers here. Rape is common. Physical abuse is common. Mental and emotional abuse is the norm. And worse, even if they complain to local police they are guaranteed to be mistreated by the police and later the employer.

But hey, if you throw in the 3Fs all is well.

[GroobySteven]

So because there's some money there, it's not at all an autocratic society? And the "work" you speak of for Filipinos, Indians, and Malays has routinely been exposed as little more than indentured servitude, whre the managers of these migrant works confiscate their passports, delay wage payments by months or years at a time, cram them into living quarters where it's 12 to a room with hotbunking, and then have complicit police harass, beat, and arrest any worker who tries to complain or escape. It is de facto slavery. Dubai, like North Korea, is evil to it's core, and no amount of Formula 1 racing or five star hotels is going to change that.


Welcome to N.America.
Glass houses and all that.

[broncofan]

I'm not saying Dubai is as bad as some places, but when it comes to transphobia and homophobia, I imagine it is far worse than most Western countries. They have banned books with gay characters (The Gulf Between Us) and their openness to outsiders also leaves something to be desired. In 2009, Israeli tennis player Shahar Peer was not allowed to compete there.

When asked about it, the tournament director said that her presence there would incite anger. The next year she was allowed to play, but was not allowed to socialize with other players under the pretext of security. The implication was that even allowing her to go about her business could get her killed!

I'm not saying that Dubai doesn't have tense relations (in fact no diplomatic relations) with Israel, but I think it's extremely disingenuous to pretend that a professional tennis player's mere presence will antagonize people simply because of where she's from. Only a very nasty prejudice would allow someone to make that argument and expect it to be taken at face value.

Of course, banning books with gay characters, and banning athletes because of where they are form does not bode well for anyone who might violate some of their cultural norms.

[runningdownthatdream]

I'm not saying Dubai is as bad as some places, but when it comes to transphobia and homophobia, I imagine it is far worse than most Western countries. They have banned books with gay characters (The Gulf Between Us) and their openness to outsiders also leaves something to be desired. In 2009, Israeli tennis player Shahar Peer was not allowed to compete there.

When asked about it, the tournament director said that her presence there would incite anger. The next year she was allowed to play, but was not allowed to socialize with other players under the pretext of security. The implication was that even allowing her to go about her business could get her killed!

I'm not saying that Dubai doesn't have tense relations (in fact no diplomatic relations) with Israel, but I think it's extremely disingenuous to pretend that a professional tennis player's mere presence will antagonize people simply because of where she's from. Only a very nasty prejudice would allow someone to make that argument and expect it to be taken at face value.

Of course, banning books with gay characters, and banning athletes because of where they are form does not bode well for anyone who might violate some of their cultural norms.

I like your last statement.

I don't think Europe or North America should be the moral police of the rest of the world. We don't have to like the norms of any given culture but we should respect it when visiting. Along with that though, I think it's important that we acknowledge where 'their' culture differs from 'our' culture and the dangers inherent for 'us' visiting 'them'. I think any gay or trans-person choosing to visit a Muslim country is taking a foolish risk in the same way a woman form North America is taking a risk by exposing any part of her body when visiting Saudi Arabia. What pisses me off are the apologists who constantly try to affirm that the Middle East is no different than Europe or North America because they have money or the trappings of wealth.

[TempestTS]

Welcome to N.America.
Glass houses and all that.

America where the libraries are full of tears
where houses sit empty foreclosed on by banks while the homeless wander the streets in rags or naked and freezing
Where we convince ourselves that freedom is right around the corner just so long as we dont speak the truth
Where we have the police force watching the people and its ok to protest against love and marriage but you better not protest against the banks
Where politicians brag of our great work ethic and trot out a 70 year old grand mother who is proud to still work 3 jobs

But no one bothers to ask why she has to...

Welcome to America

[broncofan]

I think any gay or trans-person choosing to visit a Muslim country is taking a foolish risk in the same way a woman form North America is taking a risk by exposing any part of her body when visiting Saudi Arabia. What pisses me off are the apologists who constantly try to affirm that the Middle East is no different than Europe or North America because they have money or the trappings of wealth.
I agree. I am not sure what the risk is from country to country in the Middle East, but if you can be arrested for "impersonating a male", and you are transgendered, the risk of going to the country is too great. I would not visit a country where homosexuality is illegal or books are banned because of subversive cultural content.

I know we do have our problems in the United States, and there is still homophobia embedded in the culture, but not to that degree. We have a great cultural divide over this issue, but the U.S Supreme Court has actually said that criminalizing sex acts between consenting adults is unconstitutional. So, not only is it not illegal, but there is some guarantee that there won't be a reversion to that bygone era.

[Stavros]

So because there's some money there, it's not at all an autocratic society? And the "work" you speak of for Filipinos, Indians, and Malays has routinely been exposed as little more than indentured servitude, whre the managers of these migrant works confiscate their passports, delay wage payments by months or years at a time, cram them into living quarters where it's 12 to a room with hotbunking, and then have complicit police harass, beat, and arrest any worker who tries to complain or escape. It is de facto slavery. Dubai, like North Korea, is evil to it's core, and no amount of Formula 1 racing or five star hotels is going to change that.

There are differences between North Korea and Dubai.

1) I can get on a plane tomorrow and visit Dubai, no visa required -not so with North Korea.

2) When I get to Dubai I can stay in any hotel I want -something I cannot do in North Korea where a) there aren't that many hotels, and b) foreign tourists are assigned a specific hotel.

3) I am free to travel around Dubai whenever I want, by foot, by car, by taxi, by subway, presumably by donkey, horse or camel but I can't confirm the latter three. I am not free to travel around North Korea and will be escorted wherever I want to go, having been given permission to go which in many cases is not given.

4) I can go to Dubai and shop till I drop; I can go to Dubai and not shop at all. I am not sure if there are shops in North Korea.

5) There are night clubs in Dubai, I don't believe there are any in North Korea.

6) Ask someone from the Philippines if they would like to work in Dubai and I reckon 80 out of 100 would say yes. According to the Consul General of the Philippines in Dubai:

"...the number of applications for passport renewals and similar activity at the consulate in Dubai itself has increased by about 200 per cent since December 2012.
“These are signs that the employment opportunity in the UAE and especially in Dubai is growing. There is a demand for more manpower and, fortunately, our nationals are the ones who are benefited,” he says.
The UAE, he says, has become the most preferred country in the GCC and the Middle East for Philippines nationals travelling abroad for employment.
“This country provides a safe and vibrant lifestyle which is unique,” he says.
http://www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/why-filipinos-are-flocking-to-dubai-again-2013-06-03-1.508899

-The opportunities for foreign workers in North Korea is =0.

Of the Filipino transexuals I know, 100% would love to visit Dubai for a holiday.

7) Working conditions in the UAE and in Dubai are not ideal, living conditions in the UAE and Dubai are not ideal, but the key point is that the Filipinos, the Indians and Pakistanis, the Bangadeshi and Sri Lankan and Nepalese workers will trade creature comforts for a wage that supports the family back home -that is the bottom line. There can be no comparison with North Korea because there are no comparable foreign working communities there.
-I once worked a low-wage job in the rural South of France and was given living quarters with no running water or toilet. Water was collected from a well in the boss's yard across the way, the fields were my toilet. I did not complain. I was broke and glad for the work.

7) Slavery does not offer its workers any rights, least of all the right to resign from a job and 'go home'. As far as I know, most foreign workers in the UAE and Dubai can resign and go home any time they want, so the comparison with slavery is wrong.

Dubai is not heaven on earth, neither is North Korea; are both autocracies? Yes in their own way, with degrees of flexibility for people who behave themselves. If you know Muslims do not drink alcohol then adapt, and don't expect to have wine with your meals, or retire to a lounge for whisky and cigars, even though that can be done. Comparing the UAE and Dubai to life in Europe or North America is unfair, neither country even pretends to be similar. As long as you know what to expect in either Dubai or North Korea you need not be outraged or surprised, if neither place holds any interest for you, then don't go. I know one transgendered Filipino who will not set foot in Australia, for obvious reasons.

[asianphoenixx]

your numbers are absolutely fucking hilarious. i love your stories haahaha.

just to be clear the prince of dubai was bringing over famous porn stars for 3-4 days at a time and they weren't making what you claim. you gotta invent lower numbers. good lord.

lol. Naive.

btw, who's the dumb prince who hire big tits and big dicked girls anyway.

Escort and pornstar have different criteria.

who's more popular? definitely pornstar.
who's making more money? definitely escort

When I started this profession, i really wanted to find out who is the most financially successful escort in the modern world.

I finally found her.

I was naive at the time. I thought she will look like Pamela Anderson with big tits and fake blonde hair.

I was completely wrong. She is a next door type of girl, 5.7, brunette, B cups (not even C or D cups) with an excellent social skills and high IQ, earning roughly a million dollars during her prime time, attractive and fun to be with nevertheless.

that's typical a high end escort look like.

those men hire her because she is smart, attractive but not "embarrassing". Discretion is part of escorting world.

Those men will be embarrassed being seen by a porn star whose tits are bigger than their head.

[tsmirandameadows]

Again, you're focusing on material differences, i.e. the wealth of Dubai versus the poverty of North Korea, rather than the underlying structure of autocracy, oppression, and exploitation. Likewise, your characterization of UAE working conditions as "less than ideal" is perhaps the understatement of the year, and you are incorrect that workers in Dubai can simply "resign and go home" any time they want, as that requires their employer relinquishing their passport and the worker relinquishing any claim to unpaid back wages, wages which the worker would likely need to get home in the first place.

All of this shit has been well documented. Just because Western tourists can have a nice vacation there doesn't mean there isn't some truly hellish stuff going on behind the glitz and gleam.

[the_unnatural]

Stavros, what are the reasons a Filipino tg would not want to set foot in Australia?

[bat1]

Dubai sucks!!

Been there, They watch every move you make, cameras everywhere
the money exchange sucks too!

Also very hot in the summer like 135 or so

nice malls very costly, nice buildings is about it..

[asianphoenixx]

lol. Naive.

btw, who's the dumb prince who hire big tits and big dicked girls anyway.

Escort and pornstar have different criteria.

who's more popular? definitely pornstar.
who's making more money? definitely escort

When I started this profession, i really wanted to find out who is the most financially successful escort in the modern world.

I finally found her.

I was naive at the time. I thought she will look like Pamela Anderson with big tits and fake blonde hair.

I was completely wrong. She is a next door type of girl, 5.7, brunette, B cups (not even C or D cups) with an excellent social skills and high IQ, earning roughly a million dollars during her prime time, attractive and fun to be with nevertheless.

that's typical a high end escort look like.

those men hire her because she is smart, attractive but not "embarrassing". Discretion is part of escorting world.

Those men will be embarrassed being seen by a porn star whose tits are bigger than their head.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3905427-the-price

It's her. A canadian girl who makes her millions in NYC

Do you see some similarities with moi LOL

[runningdownthatdream]

There are differences between North Korea and Dubai.

1) I can get on a plane tomorrow and visit Dubai, no visa required -not so with North Korea.

2) When I get to Dubai I can stay in any hotel I want -something I cannot do in North Korea where a) there aren't that many hotels, and b) foreign tourists are assigned a specific hotel.

3) I am free to travel around Dubai whenever I want, by foot, by car, by taxi, by subway, presumably by donkey, horse or camel but I can't confirm the latter three. I am not free to travel around North Korea and will be escorted wherever I want to go, having been given permission to go which in many cases is not given.

4) I can go to Dubai and shop till I drop; I can go to Dubai and not shop at all. I am not sure if there are shops in North Korea.

5) There are night clubs in Dubai, I don't believe there are any in North Korea.

6) Ask someone from the Philippines if they would like to work in Dubai and I reckon 80 out of 100 would say yes. According to the Consul General of the Philippines in Dubai:

"...the number of applications for passport renewals and similar activity at the consulate in Dubai itself has increased by about 200 per cent since December 2012.
“These are signs that the employment opportunity in the UAE and especially in Dubai is growing. There is a demand for more manpower and, fortunately, our nationals are the ones who are benefited,” he says.
The UAE, he says, has become the most preferred country in the GCC and the Middle East for Philippines nationals travelling abroad for employment.
“This country provides a safe and vibrant lifestyle which is unique,” he says.
http://www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/why-filipinos-are-flocking-to-dubai-again-2013-06-03-1.508899

-The opportunities for foreign workers in North Korea is =0.

Of the Filipino transexuals I know, 100% would love to visit Dubai for a holiday.

7) Working conditions in the UAE and in Dubai are not ideal, living conditions in the UAE and Dubai are not ideal, but the key point is that the Filipinos, the Indians and Pakistanis, the Bangadeshi and Sri Lankan and Nepalese workers will trade creature comforts for a wage that supports the family back home -that is the bottom line. There can be no comparison with North Korea because there are no comparable foreign working communities there.
-I once worked a low-wage job in the rural South of France and was given living quarters with no running water or toilet. Water was collected from a well in the boss's yard across the way, the fields were my toilet. I did not complain. I was broke and glad for the work.

7) Slavery does not offer its workers any rights, least of all the right to resign from a job and 'go home'. As far as I know, most foreign workers in the UAE and Dubai can resign and go home any time they want, so the comparison with slavery is wrong.

Dubai is not heaven on earth, neither is North Korea; are both autocracies? Yes in their own way, with degrees of flexibility for people who behave themselves. If you know Muslims do not drink alcohol then adapt, and don't expect to have wine with your meals, or retire to a lounge for whisky and cigars, even though that can be done. Comparing the UAE and Dubai to life in Europe or North America is unfair, neither country even pretends to be similar. As long as you know what to expect in either Dubai or North Korea you need not be outraged or surprised, if neither place holds any interest for you, then don't go. I know one transgendered Filipino who will not set foot in Australia, for obvious reasons.

You're being a little disingenous but I will only address the comment about Filipino workers going to Dubai - or any other country for that matter - for work. it's clear to me that you haven't spent a lot of time in the Philippines around poor people or you'd understand perfectly well WHY they go to Dubai. The reasons are simple: the chance to earn money (somewhere between USD175 and USD400 per month), ignorance of muslim countries, and the chance to earn money! A large part of the Filipino population is UNEMPLOYED. Those lucky enough to get a job usually earn around USD250/month and that's for more skilled work. Someone working as a domestic helper may earn USD50/month + food or working as a salesperson/labourer USD100 - USD200 per month.

When they are in the Middle East either the agency bringing them over or their direct employer WILL withold their passport. When abused they cannot go to the local authorities as that will create significant problems. They may go to the Filipino embassy only if they are certain the officer at the embassy handling their case isn't taking bribes from the employment agencies to bury reports. Keep in mind a flight home costs about USD800-USD1000 which they will not have available. The added worry for them is losing the ability to earn any money whatsoever since that will create problems for the family they are supporting back in the Philippines.

Like I said in my earlier post, if I told some of the stories I've heard first and second hand, you will likely be shocked and outraged.

[broncofan]

I understand what RDTD and Miranda are saying. I agree the situation in Dubai is dangerous and there are always parallels between one autocratic state and another, particularly on that issue most affected by the centralization of authority, civil rights. But differences do often come down to the details. North Korea is literally a country with a prison system that resembles a network of concentration camps. The control over the amount of communication between it and the outside world is nearly absolute, the poverty is not normal poverty but a major humanitarian crisis with at least hundreds of thousands of people dying of malnutrition. The leader claims to have near god-like status and can point the finger at anyone and have them killed. We can say that these are only differences in degree but at some point the differences in degree are so severe that you are talking about a very different experience.

And this is not to downplay the experience of being a transgender individual or homosexual in Dubai. I've already said I think it's untenable for anyone to expect someone to travel to a country where either your identity or your sexual orientation is criminalized. I just think the reason the parallel to North Korea works so well is not because of the clear parallels striking up eerie similarities, but because of its shock value, knowing that it is a country run by a madmen that engages in practices that could be taken out of a science fiction book.

[runningdownthatdream]

I understand what RDTD and Miranda are saying. I agree the situation in Dubai is dangerous and there are always parallels between one autocratic state and another, particularly on that issue most affected by the centralization of authority, civil rights. But differences do often come down to the details. North Korea is literally a country with a prison system that resembles a network of concentration camps. The control over the amount of communication between it and the outside world is nearly absolute, the poverty is not normal poverty but a major humanitarian crisis with at least hundreds of thousands of people dying of malnutrition. The leader claims to have near god-like status and can point the finger at anyone and have them killed. We can say that these are only differences in degree but at some point the differences in degree are so severe that you are talking about a very different experience.

And this is not to downplay the experience of being a transgender individual or homosexual in Dubai. I've already said I think it's untenable for anyone to expect someone to travel to a country where either your identity or your sexual orientation is criminalized. I just think the reason the parallel to North Korea works so well is not because of the clear parallels striking up eerie similarities, but because of its shock value, knowing that it is a country run by a madmen that engages in practices that could be taken out of a science fiction book.

Yeah that's the way I took the comment too as a shock comparison.

And by no means do I think Europe and North America are ideal societies but as pointed out earlier, at least progress is made over time and divergent views can be debated more often than not without the state imprisoning or killing its citizens.

[BBaggins06]

Welcome to N.America.
Glass houses and all that.

Those damn dirty Canadians!!!!

[BBaggins06]

America where the libraries are full of tears
where houses sit empty foreclosed on by banks while the homeless wander the streets in rags or naked and freezing
Where we convince ourselves that freedom is right around the corner just so long as we dont speak the truth
Where we have the police force watching the people and its ok to protest against love and marriage but you better not protest against the banks
Where politicians brag of our great work ethic and trot out a 70 year old grand mother who is proud to still work 3 jobs

But no one bothers to ask why she has to...

Welcome to America

Welcome to Hung Angels

where every single thread with more than three posts in it that mentions another nation inevitably, inexorably, incredulously has to take a ginormous detour and start blasting away at the US. You can set your watch to it.

[asianphoenixx]

....and here you go again.....just because something sounds absolutely ridiculous and improbable can't you just suspend your disbelief for a moment and just accept it as fact!? C'mon man, the world would be a dull place without fictional accounts of experiences in far-flung places ;)

It's not fictional, but it's definitely interesting in my case.

Dubai is definitely an interesting place to be.
But if we only focus on the wealthy rich local men and sheikhs, Abu Dhabi is actually more lucrative market.

Dubai is more interesting because of its facilities and attractions, not to mention it's also a cultural and melting pot in the middle east.

Half of my clients in Dubai are expatriates.

I miss UAE a lot, but do not recommend any girls going there.

Most girls are naive. They think they can earn as much money as they could possibly imagine.

The truth is, only less than 10% escorts can make a great living in Dubai. Just like everywhere else.

So if you are not popular and in demand in your own country, how can you expect to be the queen of Dubai?

there are hundreds or even thousands sex workers work illegally in Dubai.

You can find them easily on the street in Old Dubai, in some hotels, and some bars run by the Russians.

Girls with nice face, big tits and curvy body are not that hard to find.
We definitely need to have more assets than that in order to be successful in Dubai.

last note:

When I was there, Kimber was there too. One of my clients saw her.
And I ask him. "How was Kimber?"
He said: "beautiful but empty and superficial"

[TempestTS]

Welcome to Hung Angels

where every single thread with more than three posts in it that mentions another nation inevitably, inexorably, incredulously has to take a ginormous detour and start blasting away at the US. You can set your watch to it.

Thanks... I was worried that I was late with the post... nice to know I was spot on...

[Odelay]

Welcome to Hung Angels

where every single thread with more than three posts in it that mentions another nation inevitably, inexorably, incredulously has to take a ginormous detour and start blasting away at the US. You can set your watch to it.


Thanks... I was worried that I was late with the post... nice to know I was spot on...

Tempest, you were spot on!

The only remaining great thing about America is the ease with which we can trash our own country - at least online with an anonymous userid. Although I'm thinking that will go by wayside, soon. And then we'll be just like all the rest.

So which country should we spin up a thread about, next? I vote, Uruguay. Those bastards legalized weed for their entire country! Not for just a 1/25th sliver of it like the wussies we are.

[robertlouis]

Tourism in Dubai is a great mystery to me as well. Visiting Dubai would be a lot like visiting North Korea if it had a flashy resort city. Even if Dubai makes for a cheap luxury vacation, why would you ever give an autocratic de facto slave society the legitimacy of your tourism dollars?

Because people prefer to be ignorant of what's actually going on and prefer to enjoy the sunshine. It's a huge destination for Brits.

Oh, and I hope everyone has seen the shots of Coca Coal reps manhandling LGBT protesters out of the way in Russia. The company's tolerance for Putin's punitive laws are clearly way above their claims to be an equal rights business.

Capitalism, eh?

Oh, and check this out. Will America boycott Coke? Will it fuck.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/alanwhite/coca-colas-new-social-media-campaign-wont-let-you-use-the-wo

http://http://www.buzzfeed.com/alanwhite/coca-colas-new-social-media-campaign-wont-let-you-use-the-wo

[francisfkudrow]

I'm just a regular guy who travels for the sake of visiting new places, and I wouldn't visit Dubai. I have a personal policy that I only visit countries that are reasonably free and tolerant.

[giovanni_hotel]

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3905427-the-price

It's her. A canadian girl who makes her millions in NYC

Do you see some similarities with moi LOL

Sorry but I'm leaning towards Christian on this one. Anyone can quote an hourly number, but it's impossible to confirm unless you talk to her clients.

Which would be impossible.:yayo:

This chick was charging 2K....per hour!!!??
http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/11/21/tl_scandal_nataliemclennan.jpg
What the fuck for??

BTW she said that was her minimum charge.:geek: Yeah whatever.

Maybe I buy that affluent men are looking for a little mental titillation as well as just straight on sex. But really this girl is cute, and that's about it.

I'd pay Asianphoenixx 2K per before I'd give it this woman, and I ain't paying 2K for ANY escort. WTF.

[runningdownthatdream]

Because people prefer to be ignorant of what's actually going on and prefer to enjoy the sunshine. It's a huge destination for Brits.

Oh, and I hope everyone has seen the shots of Coca Coal reps manhandling LGBT protesters out of the way in Russia. The company's tolerance for Putin's punitive laws are clearly way above their claims to be an equal rights business.

Capitalism, eh?

Oh, and check this out. Will America boycott Coke? Will it fuck.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/alanwhite/coca-colas-new-social-media-campaign-wont-let-you-use-the-wo

http://http://www.buzzfeed.com/alanwhite/coca-colas-new-social-media-campaign-wont-let-you-use-the-wo

Well they allow manbearpig............so there's that! In all serious though I think the outrage might be too dramatic since many other words are 'allowed'. Homosexual, Transsexual, Human Rights are all in so if we follow the logic that Russia is influencing Coca Cola to prevent words that Russia may find offensive you'd think those would be disallowed too.

[asianphoenixx]

Sorry but I'm leaning towards Christian on this one. Anyone can quote an hourly number, but it's impossible to confirm unless you talk to her clients.

Which would be impossible.:yayo:

This chick was charging 2K....per hour!!!??
http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/11/21/tl_scandal_nataliemclennan.jpg
What the fuck for??

BTW she said that was her minimum charge.:geek: Yeah whatever.

Maybe I buy that affluent men are looking for a little mental titillation as well as just straight on sex. But really this girl is cute, and that's about it.

I'd pay Asianphoenixx 2K per before I'd give it this woman, and I ain't paying 2K for ANY escort. WTF.

funny.

Welcome to hungangels.

This is a pornsite where tits and big dicks rule.

Gee..what am I doing here?

O yeah....i like dick too LOL

[runningdownthatdream]

funny.

Welcome to hungangels.

This is a pornsite where tits and big dicks rule.

gee..what am i doing here?

o yeah....i like dick too lol

m-a-r-k-e-t-i-n-g

[giovanni_hotel]

funny.

Welcome to hungangels.

This is a pornsite where tits and big dicks rule.

Gee..what am I doing here?

O yeah....i like dick too LOL

You think most non trans-attracted men would give that girl a sniff at 2K per hour??

If guys like myself had access in everyday life to attractive, available transwomen, there would be no lucrative escort business for TS.

It's about supply and demand. And there's a huge supply of GG chicks who offer more from an attraction standpoint than this female.

There are women who can make every man in the room turn their head when they walk by, and their are chicks who can have an entire party spellbound waiting to listen to her next word.

This chick is moderately attractive, her bod isn't special enough IMO to be a GG escort, and if you're paying 2K per hour for stimulating conversation, your life is a mess.

I really have a hard time believing this girl ever earned $1 mil a year escorting.
Since when has an escort ever quoted precisely exactly how much money she earns??lol

Don't tell me that wealthy men are more discerning and refined in their tastes either.

The more money you make, there are literally more people scheming to find ways to rip you off.

I don't see it. At all.

[asianphoenixx]

You think most non trans-attracted men would give that girl a sniff at 2K per hour??

If guys like myself had access in everyday life to attractive, available transwomen, there would be no lucrative escort business for TS.

It's about supply and demand. And there's a huge supply of GG chicks who offer more from an attraction standpoint than this female.

There are women who can make every man in the room turn their head when they walk by, and their are chicks who can have an entire party spellbound waiting to listen to her next word.

This chick is moderately attractive, her bod isn't special enough IMO to be a GG escort, and if you're paying 2K per hour for stimulating conversation, your life is a mess.

I really have a hard time believing this girl ever earned $1 mil a year escorting.
Since when has an escort ever quoted precisely exactly how much money she earns??lol

Don't tell me that wealthy men are more discerning and refined in their tastes either.

The more money you make, there are literally more people scheming to find ways to rip you off.

I don't see it. At all.

I know...i know....smart men are complicated.

I'm too lazy to be serious at the moment.
Shall we enjoy porn instead?

I need urgently a cock right now :fuckin:

[Stavros]

Again, you're focusing on material differences, i.e. the wealth of Dubai versus the poverty of North Korea, rather than the underlying structure of autocracy, oppression, and exploitation. Likewise, your characterization of UAE working conditions as "less than ideal" is perhaps the understatement of the year, and you are incorrect that workers in Dubai can simply "resign and go home" any time they want, as that requires their employer relinquishing their passport and the worker relinquishing any claim to unpaid back wages, wages which the worker would likely need to get home in the first place.

All of this shit has been well documented. Just because Western tourists can have a nice vacation there doesn't mean there isn't some truly hellish stuff going on behind the glitz and gleam.

The problem is that the facts are that there are some employers who take their employees passports, and many who don't. To begin with it is illegal, unless the worker hands over the passport as a mutual agreement. Again, some employees don't get paid for months, many get paid on time, but you could ask yourself if the situation is as bad as it is why people keep going. Filipinos go to the Middle East (including Israel) because there is work and they can get in, where, for example, it is next to impossible to emigrate to the EU and there are restrictions on working in Japan. Yes, there have been horror stories of Filipino maids in the UAE as well as other countries, it is not some special problem that Dubai has, and by reputation it is more liberal than Saudi Arabia where a lot of Filipinos work, these things are relative. It is a fact that the royal houses of the UAE rule and that there political system is as autocratic as North Korea, but the comparison is weak thereafter as I tried to suggest. The sad fact of the matter is that there are more countries in the world where 'autocracy, oppression and exploitation' are normal than open democracies. I wonder how any transgendered persons would successfully negotiate their way round Lagos in Nigeria without being harassed and ripped off, in the largest democracy in Africa. Kazakhstan is another country which because of its oil wealth attracts a lot of foreign workers, most of whom have no illusions about the country.

Because with many countries it is precisely about material things. People will tolerate all sorts of situations you never would to make enough money to buy a house, a car, breast enhancements, etc.

[Stavros]

You're being a little disingenous but I will only address the comment about Filipino workers going to Dubai - or any other country for that matter - for work. it's clear to me that you haven't spent a lot of time in the Philippines around poor people or you'd understand perfectly well WHY they go to Dubai. The reasons are simple: the chance to earn money (somewhere between USD175 and USD400 per month), ignorance of muslim countries, and the chance to earn money! A large part of the Filipino population is UNEMPLOYED. Those lucky enough to get a job usually earn around USD250/month and that's for more skilled work. Someone working as a domestic helper may earn USD50/month + food or working as a salesperson/labourer USD100 - USD200 per month.

When they are in the Middle East either the agency bringing them over or their direct employer WILL withold their passport. When abused they cannot go to the local authorities as that will create significant problems. They may go to the Filipino embassy only if they are certain the officer at the embassy handling their case isn't taking bribes from the employment agencies to bury reports. Keep in mind a flight home costs about USD800-USD1000 which they will not have available. The added worry for them is losing the ability to earn any money whatsoever since that will create problems for the family they are supporting back in the Philippines.

Like I said in my earlier post, if I told some of the stories I've heard first and second hand, you will likely be shocked and outraged.

But I have spent time in the Philippines and am perfectly well aware of the rip-offs that happen, but you seem to take the worst examples that have been publicised and assume this is the norm whereas I believe it is more complex than that. In the 1970s there were agencies that brought Filipinos to the UK to work as domestic assistants in hospitals; I was a union steward at the time and our union (NUPE, these days Unison) successfully campaigned to change the practices which effectively imprisoned Filipino workers in the UK through debts they could never pay off. I have personally twice had to deal with bent agencies in the Philippines promising my friends work (in the UK and Singapore), on both occasions the 'agent' disappeared, in one case with a substantial amount of money robbed from many different people. If you also know the Philippines you will know about these practices which happen before anyone sets foot in Dubai or anywhere else for that matter. There is also the possibility that some Filipino workers decide after they get to Dubai they don't like the place and want to leave but have signed a contract. I am not denying your stories are true, but the facts are more complex than they can appear from stories in the newspapers.

Poverty is at the root of this problem, on that we agree; the lack of uniform legal behaviour across the board in Dubai is another fact on which we can agree; where we disagree is on the detail and I suggest it is because the whole of the truth is not known, and would require an extensive survey to be conclusive. Incidentally, I do not like Dubai as a place, and though Abu Dhabi is better, I dont think of these as typical of the Middle East and would not recommend them as holiday destinations either.

[tsmirandameadows]

You seem to be missing my point. You state that "The sad fact of the matter is that there are more countries in the world where 'autocracy, oppression and exploitation' are normal than open democracies." This is true, and while Western-style Liberal Democracy shouldn't necessarily be the goal world wide, a basic respect for human rights should. When you go to a place like Dubai for a vacation, and spend your money there, you are giving tacit approval of the VERY well documented human rights abuses that routinely occur there. As long as Westerners are willing to overlook the very real and very obscene abuses just because there are some nice shopping malls and night clubs, then there will be no incentive for the UAE to ever change. That was my point: taking a vacation in Dubai is to help prop up a pretty evil system, and just as no one, aside from Dennis Rodman, would want to help prop up North Korea, no one ought to help prop up places like Dubai, even if they are an awesome vacation spot... so long as you're not a transsexual.

[Stavros]

I don't think you are on strong grounds when you object to a tourist spending their money in a country with documented human rights abuses. I live in a country, the United Kingdom, which has locked people up without trial, and denied them the right to know why they have been locked up. I also live in a country where a murder trial has been held in secret for reasons which are unknown -so much for justice being seen to be done. The country I live in has arrested people and 'rendered' them to overseas agencies to be tortured. Does this mean that tourists who come to the UK are endorsing the worst practices of the government and the secret services?

I have not been to Dubai as a tourist, it was work related. Unlike millions of other British tourists, I did not go to Spain while Franco was alive, for political reasons. I have been to Russia as a tourist, in spite of its reputation for harassing homosexuals and transgendered people -does this make me complicit in their oppression?

Can I assume you will not spend your dollars in any state of the Union that does not satisfy your definition of human rights?

[runningdownthatdream]

The problem is that the facts are that there are some employers who take their employees passports, and many who don't. To begin with it is illegal, unless the worker hands over the passport as a mutual agreement. Again, some employees don't get paid for months, many get paid on time, but you could ask yourself if the situation is as bad as it is why people keep going. Filipinos go to the Middle East (including Israel) because there is work and they can get in, where, for example, it is next to impossible to emigrate to the EU and there are restrictions on working in Japan. Yes, there have been horror stories of Filipino maids in the UAE as well as other countries, it is not some special problem that Dubai has, and by reputation it is more liberal than Saudi Arabia where a lot of Filipinos work, these things are relative. It is a fact that the royal houses of the UAE rule and that there political system is as autocratic as North Korea, but the comparison is weak thereafter as I tried to suggest. The sad fact of the matter is that there are more countries in the world where 'autocracy, oppression and exploitation' are normal than open democracies. I wonder how any transgendered persons would successfully negotiate their way round Lagos in Nigeria without being harassed and ripped off, in the largest democracy in Africa. Kazakhstan is another country which because of its oil wealth attracts a lot of foreign workers, most of whom have no illusions about the country.

Because with many countries it is precisely about material things. People will tolerate all sorts of situations you never would to make enough money to buy a house, a car, breast enhancements, etc.

Pardon my french but you're woefully ignorant of the temporary worker process. Filipinos would prefer to go to the US, UK, or Canada. However, most cannot afford to pay the fees that the Filipino employment agencies demand from them to arrange for work in those countries. And yes Stavro, it's illegal for employment agencies to charge a fee to the worker, however it is the normal practice in the Philippines. Just as it's illegal for employers to withhold passports but it is the norm. (And by the way workers must also take a letter from employers to the airport when leaving the country which attests that said employer is releasing said employee.) So..........the only places workers can go without having to pay exorbitant fees is the Middle East and Central Asia.

Yes people will suffer many types of abuse to pay for the things you mention, for Filipinos though they suffer that abuse simply to buy food and pay the electric and water bills back in the Philippines and I find your flippant remarks quite offensive. You might want to portray what happens there as anomalies but from what I've heard from actual workers, it's more the norm. While I won't sympathize with people going to the Middle East to break their laws - such as performing as prostitutes - I don't agree that any of those countries should be given accolades because they use state funds to build enormous structures and provide great shopping while they continue to promulgate hateful behaviors. You're the guy always bashing Republicans in the US but yet here you are advocating for a muslim country in the Middle East - what the fuck gives?

[Stavros]

I have not endorsed the working practices of the UAE at all, I have merely suggested that what you are claiming to be the norm is unproven. My remarks about the Philippines are anything but flippant, so you need not be offended. The key point is one on which we agree, that the poverty so common in the Philippines drives people to work in places like the Middle East. You and I both agree it would be better if there were alternatives.

[tsmirandameadows]

I don't think you are on strong grounds when you object to a tourist spending their money in a country with documented human rights abuses. I live in a country, the United Kingdom, which has locked people up without trial, and denied them the right to know why they have been locked up. I also live in a country where a murder trial has been held in secret for reasons which are unknown -so much for justice being seen to be done. The country I live in has arrested people and 'rendered' them to overseas agencies to be tortured. Does this mean that tourists who come to the UK are endorsing the worst practices of the government and the secret services?

I have not been to Dubai as a tourist, it was work related. Unlike millions of other British tourists, I did not go to Spain while Franco was alive, for political reasons. I have been to Russia as a tourist, in spite of its reputation for harassing homosexuals and transgendered people -does this make me complicit in their oppression?

Can I assume you will not spend your dollars in any state of the Union that does not satisfy your definition of human rights?

I didn't think it would be controversial to suggest that the abuses I have described are abuses of human rights.

http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/2006/11/11/building-towers-cheating-workers
http://www.npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=5250718
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html
http://documentaryhive.com/slaves-of-dubai-documentary/

And yes, I stand by my statement that you shouldn't patronize countries which systematically violate the human rights of those living there. You are correct to raise the question of what qualifies as sufficient rights violation to rule out a visit: I don't at present have criteria beyond "I know it when I see it." But even lacking such criteria, I think it is entirely reasonable to ask yourself "do I really want to give legitimacy to an oppressive regime by going on vacation there?" Likewise, not asking yourself that question, strikes me as turning a blind eye.

[giovanni_hotel]

I don't think you are on strong grounds when you object to a tourist spending their money in a country with documented human rights abuses. I live in a country, the United Kingdom, which has locked people up without trial, and denied them the right to know why they have been locked up. I also live in a country where a murder trial has been held in secret for reasons which are unknown -so much for justice being seen to be done. The country I live in has arrested people and 'rendered' them to overseas agencies to be tortured. Does this mean that tourists who come to the UK are endorsing the worst practices of the government and the secret services?

I have not been to Dubai as a tourist, it was work related. Unlike millions of other British tourists, I did not go to Spain while Franco was alive, for political reasons. I have been to Russia as a tourist, in spite of its reputation for harassing homosexuals and transgendered people -does this make me complicit in their oppression?

Can I assume you will not spend your dollars in any state of the Union that does not satisfy your definition of human rights?


Come on, Stavros. It's all about proportion and degree.
The West may not have perfect political systems and protections for human rights, but to compare them to Dubai and UAE, hell the ME in general, is disingenuous.

The UK is still trying to sort out its policies for dealing with foreign gestated, ideologically driven, radical religious terrorism. The treatment of of terrorists in the UK and US in not the same treatment a random person processed through the legal system in these countries receives.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for a foreign traveler to feel 'less free' in a country like Dubai.

[Stavros]

And yes, I stand by my statement that you shouldn't patronize countries which systematically violate the human rights of those living there. You are correct to raise the question of what qualifies as sufficient rights violation to rule out a visit: I don't at present have criteria beyond "I know it when I see it." But even lacking such criteria, I think it is entirely reasonable to ask yourself "do I really want to give legitimacy to an oppressive regime by going on vacation there?" Likewise, not asking yourself that question, strikes me as turning a blind eye.

When it comes to vacations, people must make their choices. Members of my family have been to Cuba for holidays, did this mean they endorsed the regime there? I have been to China -same question, but the answer is no, I did not endorse Communist Party rule just by entering the country, I judged by visit by other criteria, such as my interest in Chinese history, my connections to the country through the people I was working for, and so on.

If the 'systematic abuse of human rights' is the criteria, then how many places in the world remain open to tourism? There is also the argument, it was made about Burma a few years ago, that tourism in an oppressive country can be of small benefit to local traders and undermine the oppressive authority of the regime as people come into contact with foreigners. It is a difficult one, but clearly it didn't matter to the British tourists who went to Spain when Franco was alive. Depending on the country I think it matters but people must be free to make their own decisions.

I think the key points are that Dubai is not unique in its treatment of foreign workers, and that if we were to draw up a list of countries where transexuals are at risk, then on a scale of 1-10 Dubai would be in the top ten with a risk rating of 8-10 where the risk is of imprisonment, arrest and so on. What other countries would be on that list I hazard to guess, and if I make some I will only attract more criticism!

[Stavros]

Come on, Stavros. It's all about proportion and degree.
The West may not have perfect political systems and protections for human rights, but to compare them to Dubai and UAE, hell the ME in general, is disingenuous.

The UK is still trying to sort out its policies for dealing with foreign gestated, ideologically driven, radical religious terrorism. The treatment of of terrorists in the UK and US in not the same treatment a random person processed through the legal system in these countries receives.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for a foreign traveler to feel 'less free' in a country like Dubai.

Although I agree with most of your post, the point would be that no country should be immune from general standards of judgement, so that while Dubai and the UK are quite different -as indeed is Dubai compared to North Korea- on principle this does not exempt the UK from criticism. And you should not underestimate how bad the experience of Tony Blair's government on the matter of human rights has been, as we are still living with the consequences.

[fivekatz]

Just as a personal aside whether its Columbia, Panama, the USV's or Dubbai the different souls marching into the country get a tougher look at embarkation and little rope if involved in a police action.

[robertlouis]

It isn't directly about human rights, nor is it about Dubai, but it's a documented fact that almost 400 workers from Nepal alone have died in Qatar while working on the infrastructure for the football World Cup Finals in 2022 in the last two years. Whether it's minimal attention to health and safety checks or a general failure to value non-Qatari human life that is, quite simply, a scandal.

And any attempt to compare human rights abuses in the middle east with those in the UK or the US is disingenuous at best and knowingly cynical at worst. There is no real comparison; human rights are, or should be, absolute, and any implication that developed countries should somehow "know better" misses the point entirely.

And when I mentioned Coca Cola in the context of the Sochi Winter Olympics I shouldn't have bothered with the word "gay" on cans or bottles. The main issue is the visible complicity of the company in the restraining of protesters against Putin's persecution of LGBT people; it's perfectly clear that their commercial interests as a sponsor are far more important than human rights in the host country.

[Prospero]

It is somewhat clumsy to draw direct lines of comparisons between the human rights situation across different countries and types of political and social regimes .

It is surely better to discuss the particular issues regarding each country or at the very least grouping of countries,.

So for instance the upsurge of the religious orthodoxy in Russia since the collapse of communism plays a significant role in the regime's deepening persecution of gay, lesbian and transgendered people. Extrapolating from that might be valuable from that to look at the discrimination incarnate among othr major faiths such as islam and Western Christianity. But when looking at this you need also to dig deeper in understanding the cultural as well as religious roots for certain behaviours and beiefs (as in Africs for instance, much of which is in the grip of vicious anti gay fervour).

Equally the treatment of migrant workers across the Gulf is an issue of serious human rights concern. But to label even different Gulf States (the KSA or the UAE) as identically repressive is a mistake. The overall domination of public life by the Wahabist tradition of islam in the KSA makes it the least liberal of Sheikhdoms or Kingdoms in the region. Dubai, for all its array of human rights violations is among the most liberal. Others Emirates within the UAE such as the fervently religiously conservative emirate of Sharjah (heavily funded by the KSA) are much more illiberal but attract virtually no international attention. Dubai is more liberal than the dominant economic emirate of Abu Dhabi. Dubai welcomes different types of migrant workers. Europeans and Americans in finance, high tech and other high end areas of work thrive in the Emirates. They enjoy a very omfortable and tax free status because of theirnvalue to the Emiratis. At the other end of the scale are the migrant workers, often housed in appalling conditions in camps. Most DO come to the UAE voluntarily as has been observed to send money home. But the conditions they meet are appalling and many are, indeed trapped and badly mistreated. The same is widely but not universally true of the domestic staff - primarily but not exclusively filipino - who work there.

Regarding the autocracy of the political system it is actually rather more complicated - with the Emiratis genuinely beleiving that their system derives from the old tribal system of the Majlis where every member of the tribal society has access to the ruler via the open house of the Majlis. This is an old form of forum where ordinary people sit with the Sheikhs to debate and discuss issues as wide ranging as family problems to economic issues. However since the creation of the UAE by Sheikh Zayed bin Sultan al Nahayan (of Abu Dhabi) and Sheikh Rashid al Maktoum (of Dubai) the government of the nation has been dominated by these two ruling tribal dynasties with a constituent assembly that comprises representatives from the other five Emirates plus some elected members). The UAE has promised universal suffrage within the next five years. But compared to the dictatorships of Syria, Iraq under Saddam or Libya under Gaddafi, the UAE is in many ways a very liberal society

[Castor_Troy05]

Doesn't surprise me about Dubai, also know a few Filipina girls that are keen to go there for money as it's portrayed very positively there.

Curious about the obvious reasons Stavros alluded to regarding a Filipina TS not wanting to go to Australia

[Stavros]

It is somewhat clumsy to draw direct lines of comparisons between the human rights situation across different countries and types of political and social regimes .

It is surely better to discuss the particular issues regarding each country or at the very least grouping of countries,.

So for instance the upsurge of the religious orthodoxy in Russia since the collapse of communism plays a significant role in the regime's deepening persecution of gay, lesbian and transgendered people. Extrapolating from that might be valuable from that to look at the discrimination incarnate among othr major faiths such as islam and Western Christianity. But when looking at this you need also to dig deeper in understanding the cultural as well as religious roots for certain behaviours and beiefs (as in Africs for instance, much of which is in the grip of vicious anti gay fervour).

Equally the treatment of migrant workers across the Gulf is an issue of serious human rights concern. But to label even different Gulf States (the KSA or the UAE) as identically repressive is a mistake. The overall domination of public life by the Wahabist tradition of islam in the KSA makes it the least liberal of Sheikhdoms or Kingdoms in the region. Dubai, for all its array of human rights violations is among the most liberal. Others Emirates within the UAE such as the fervently religiously conservative emirate of Sharjah (heavily funded by the KSA) are much more illiberal but attract virtually no international attention. Dubai is more liberal than the dominant economic emirate of Abu Dhabi. Dubai welcomes different types of migrant workers. Europeans and Americans in finance, high tech and other high end areas of work thrive in the Emirates. They enjoy a very omfortable and tax free status because of theirnvalue to the Emiratis. At the other end of the scale are the migrant workers, often housed in appalling conditions in camps. Most DO come to the UAE voluntarily as has been observed to send money home. But the conditions they meet are appalling and many are, indeed trapped and badly mistreated. The same is widely but not universally true of the domestic staff - primarily but not exclusively filipino - who work there.

Regarding the autocracy of the political system it is actually rather more complicated - with the Emiratis genuinely beleiving that their system derives from the old tribal system of the Majlis where every member of the tribal society has access to the ruler via the open house of the Majlis. This is an old form of forum where ordinary people sit with the Sheikhs to debate and discuss issues as wide ranging as family problems to economic issues. However since the creation of the UAE by Sheikh Zayed bin Sultan al Nahayan (of Abu Dhabi) and Sheikh Rashid al Maktoum (of Dubai) the government of the nation has been dominated by these two ruling tribal dynasties with a constituent assembly that comprises representatives from the other five Emirates plus some elected members). The UAE has promised universal suffrage within the next five years. But compared to the dictatorships of Syria, Iraq under Saddam or Libya under Gaddafi, the UAE is in many ways a very liberal society

Fair points, but one of the issues Miranda raised is whether or not by going on holiday to a country with an poor human rights record means you are thereby endorsing it -you have been to plenty of countries with varying records on this, and presumably not just for work: what is your view on this?

[Stavros]

Doesn't surprise me about Dubai, also know a few Filipina girls that are keen to go there for money as it's portrayed very positively there.

Curious about the obvious reasons Stavros alluded to regarding a Filipina TS not wanting to go to Australia

Best that I not elaborate on it, even though I could understand her reasons. I don't know Australia myself and the difficulties I have had with the Australians I have worked with doesn't help either; there are millions of Australians and I am sure some are human.

[trish]

Although I agree with most of your post, the point would be that no country should be immune from general standards of judgement, so that while Dubai and the UK are quite different -as indeed is Dubai compared to North Korea- on principle this does not exempt the UK from criticism. And you should not underestimate how bad the experience of Tony Blair's government on the matter of human rights has been, as we are still living with the consequences.
On a related note
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2014/01/26/nice-example-of-the-fallacy-of-the-excluded-middle/

[Nikka]

because money talks

[Prospero]

Interesting point Stavros. In truth I have been to many countries but few with deeply questionable human rights records except for work purposes. (China, most of the Arab world) Would I go? Probably curiosity would draw me in. I would certainly consider North Korea simply to see the extent to which I could gain a picture of it. Similarly Indonesia, Iran. But most of my holidays are taken with a view to seeing stuff rather than just resting or lying on a beach.

[Stavros]

Interesting point Stavros. In truth I have been to many countries but few with deeply questionable human rights records except for work purposes. (China, most of the Arab world) Would I go? Probably curiosity would draw me in. I would certainly consider North Korea simply to see the extent to which I could gain a picture of it. Similarly Indonesia, Iran. But most of my holidays are taken with a view to seeing stuff rather than just resting or lying on a beach.

I should also have asked, on a scale of 1-10 what countries you think are dangerous places for transexuals to visit, as tourists or escorts.

[Tashajones]

I remember reading about Asian Phoenix and her situation. It was a very sad story. But everyone in this industry knows that is a place that does not want us their so why go? It is not worth it. I have seen lots of guys from Dubai and had a wonderful time. But I would never risk my safety for any amount of money.

In Canada we have great places to work where you can see 10-15 clients a day if that is your thing. Ottawa, Calgary and Edmonton are examples of places that you can see a huge amount of clients and still charge a good amount for your services.

[JordanNite]

Dubai is indeed a very artificial place ... albeit lovely. Mass loads of expats there too, great shopping, restaurants ... although lacks culture; that actual indigenous population there only make up about 10% of the people.

But it's also a mass whore city at night. Apart from a select few upscale nightclubs, they are all whore houses ... rammed with whores from Africa and Russia. So many whores that they outnumber the men in these clubs.

That's what's so great about Dubai ... it's one of the few cities in the world that has this mass conflicted aroma to it; on one hand externally a religiously intolerant society, but scratch the surface and alcohol is easily available and you have hookers galore.

But ONE THING these states don't condone is homosexuality. It's the one taboo that they won't let pass. And even if you got yourself a pair of breasts and long hair, if you have a cock between your legs it's homosexuality, and they will come down hard on you (although not as hard as in some other states).

[asianphoenixx]

Dubai is actually pretty liberal compared to most Arab countries.

I didn't have any problem doing some shopping or sight seeing over there.

Prostitution caught in Dubai is still a small percentage compared to those who are still available on the market.

I saw 40 Chinese girls working on the street in Old Dubai, and nobody bothered.

They only caught us when we are "out of range" of normalcy. Either we are too popular, or too extravagant.

Gay parties happen a lot in private houses, and it's ok within reasons and limits. Of course, if you have mega orgy, then the police will catch you.

Same thing happens in prostitution. If we work discreetly, we will be fine. However, if we are too popular, then we have to take some precautions, like hiring a bodyguard, bribe the police, etc.

Do we all notice the dress worn by two tgirls who got caught?
That dress was very provocative for Arab's standard.

If the two of them dressed down a bit, I'm pretty sure they will be fine.

Btw, when I was in jail, I was helped by the locals a lot, showing that not all Arabs are bad/cruel. They, like the rest of us, also have heart and are willing to help too.

[asianphoenixx]

last but not the least, I notice, Kitana, one of our girls in Canada just came back from Dubai and Abu Dhabi. She seems to be fine.

and what's the secret?
Because she works within "normalcy"

the money might not be great, but at least it's safe.

When Kimber was there, she was managed by an agency who did all the screenings.

They are all fine, so let's not exaggerate thing.

However, i'm not saying it's ok to work in Dubai. It's still NOT ok.
But it does not mean, they will kill you when they find out, you work there.

[asianphoenixx]

[QUOTE=Tashajones;1447598. I have seen lots of guys from Dubai and had a wonderful time.[/QUOTE]

Emiratis do travel: Houston to see their son or daughter, Geneva or London for their Summer vacation.

I met dozens of them here in USA alone, mostly when I was in Texas.

The funniest story is: I met one of my local clients in Dubai in 2010 and his son who currently study in Houston few months ago.
I keep it as a secret:)

They are both good lovers.

Ah...I miss my Arab men

[stan.smith]

i believe all LGBT shud avoid middle eastern countries, there are far better places in the world to see. and i would generally advise all the horny men not to go seek out a ts out in any of those countries.

[stan.smith]

I remember reading about Asian Phoenix and her situation. It was a very sad story. But everyone in this industry knows that is a place that does not want us their so why go? It is not worth it. I have seen lots of guys from Dubai and had a wonderful time. But I would never risk my safety for any amount of money.

In Canada we have great places to work where you can see 10-15 clients a day if that is your thing. Ottawa, Calgary and Edmonton are examples of places that you can see a huge amount of clients and still charge a good amount for your services.

Exactly!

[runningdownthatdream]

Not Dubai but it's neighbour Qatar another country often held up as one of the 'nice' middle-eastern countries.

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/feb/26/qatar-foreign-workers-slave-conditions

[alyssaluxor]

Doesn't surprise me about Dubai, also know a few Filipina girls that are keen to go there for money as it's portrayed very positively there.

Curious about the obvious reasons Stavros alluded to regarding a Filipina TS not wanting to go to Australia

I know some Filipina TS girls who go to Australia and have Australia visa but once you got to Australia airport youll undergo again rigorous and hagardous interviews you might cry and get traumatized lol

Many of them got kicked out and got traumatized sad to hear

[alyssaluxor]

last but not the least, I notice, Kitana, one of our girls in Canada just came back from Dubai and Abu Dhabi. She seems to be fine.

and what's the secret?
Because she works within "normalcy"

the money might not be great, but at least it's safe.

When Kimber was there, she was managed by an agency who did all the screenings.

They are all fine, so let's not exaggerate thing.

However, i'm not saying it's ok to work in Dubai. It's still NOT ok.
But it does not mean, they will kill you when they find out, you work there.

I agree with this one

And also I agree with Tia I also met a couple of Emirati guys they usually donate 500-2000US$ for just an hour even usually just for hang out and talk. Dubai expats are also often generous compared to expats in other countries...

I also got lots of offers in Dubai but im so scared to go there

[dick.rimmer]

Hi girls

You might consider going to Norway. one of the richest countries in the world because of all the oil money from the North Sea, so you can make a lot of money up there and the market is not that crowded, so there is less competition and there are no legal issues. The only downside is the weather, definitely more rain and less sun than in the Middle East. have a look at some of the ones working there on www.shemalewiki.com

If you go there take a tour of the other Scandinavian countries as well, they are also high end markets with good prices and only Sweden poses a bit of a legal issue, since prostitutions isnt legal there.

regards
Dick

[Stavros]

Hi girls

You might consider going to Norway. one of the richest countries in the world because of all the oil money from the North Sea, so you can make a lot of money up there and the market is not that crowded, so there is less competition and there are no legal issues. The only downside is the weather, definitely more rain and less sun than in the Middle East. have a look at some of the ones working there on www.shemalewiki.com (http://www.shemalewiki.com)

If you go there take a tour of the other Scandinavian countries as well, they are also high end markets with good prices and only Sweden poses a bit of a legal issue, since prostitutions isnt legal there.

regards
Dick

Prostitution is not illegal in Sweden, paying a prostitute for sex is:
"The laws on prostitution in Sweden make it illegal to buy sexual services, but not to sell them. Pimping, procuring, and operating a brothel are also illegal. The criminalisation of the purchase, but not selling, of sex was unique when first enacted in 1999, but since then Norway and Iceland have adopted similar legislation, both in 2009, and France began enacting a similar law in 2013"
-from
Prostitution in Sweden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Sweden)

Two articles on the situation in Scandinavia, one critical of the assumptions made about prostitution in Sweden -

http://theconversation.com/the-nordic-model-of-prostitution-law-is-a-myth-21351

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/dec/11/prostitution-sweden-model-reform-men-pay-sex

[gslang]

i have enjoyed much time in Scandinavia, and generally love the people and culture there.

Paying for sex services in Norway & Sweden is illegal (as since this week European vote - now the agreed position for europe!) and IS enforced with hundreds of arrests and much public humiliation.

Unscrupulous providers take advantage of this knowing their clients are in fear of being caught. of course there are many genuine and honest providers some with excellent reviews in local forums and well known for touring across europe, charging local rates around NOK/SEK2500 (over 250pounds).

It is also illegal to assist in any way a sex worker in any way in their business, and illegal to provide services such as accommodation - meaning hotels and serviced apartments actively monitor and screen their visitors. i Know of cases of GG/TS visitors being thrown out of their accommodation without refund and i have seen single ladies being challenged in hotel lobbies. This is not so much the case for the long-term stayers, mainly Brazilian who arrange their own networks.

Also, even with their relative economic strengths the pay-to-play markets in these places are very small. plus extremely expensive to stay. Norwegians prefer to shop and have their fun abroad. I think the large markets of london and paris are still more suitable, even tho they too are expensive and been economically suffering. plus the rise of agencies offering cheaper rates has uncut the market for independents. Thats why most have moved onto places like Australia.