Bradley Manning: I want to live as a woman

[Ben in LA]

Saw this on Twitter...comments?

http://t.today.com/news/bradley-manning-i-want-live-woman-6C10974915

[LilyRox]

What an awkward time to transition

[nysprod]

What an awkward time to transition

And not practical either since the army isn't going to supply hormones or surgeries.

[GroobySteven]

Congratulations on finding herself.

[tsmirandameadows]

And not practical either since the army isn't going to supply hormones or surgeries.

The VA will, although probably as a result of the conviction he'll have lost all of his benefits. I feel really sorry for Manning. I don't condone the leaking, even if all the "aiding and abetting the enemy" hysteria was bullshit, but it just seems like Manning was in emotional/psychological crisis on that deployment, spun apart, and made a decision that will fuck up the rest of his life, to include make transitioning in his/her twenties impossible. Not that I particularly recommend transitioning in your twenties, unless you are VERY confident you can stealth, or already have established yourself in a career, otherwise you get to experience the joy of being completely unhireable, but whatever.

Random fact about me: the only reason I'm not today a West Point graduate and an Army infantry officer, of all things, was that I was honest on the medical history form after getting an offer of appointment, and disclosed that I had been treated for depression. Ugh, I'd still be stuck in the Army for another two years, wondering why a hyper-masculine environment hadn't "cured" me of my gender dysphoria, so I guess it's for the best.

[bluesoul]

What an awkward time to transition

but he was supposed to transition after his tour of duty. he was seeking advice on youtube with transsexuals that vlog on how to do that. this was even brought up during his trial. (one girl's entire chat history with him was used as evidence)

[GroobySteven]

Just putting it out there but we'll offer him his first shoot when he gets out.

[EvaCassini]

With what I heard on NPR, he's getting at least 25 yrs, after 10 he gets a chance of parole, if shown good conduct, but being as though he will be in Leavenworth, he is going to have a lot of problems.

If he wanted a better way to get out of the military and transition, he could have asked me. I got out HONORABLY and VOLUNTARILY so I can start mine.

[GroobySteven]

I bet he's out in 7 or under.

[EvaCassini]

He may have that opportunity, but being as though the "charges" he's convicted of, going to Leavenworth is going to hell for him. After the trial and sentencing, once he's put back into Leavenworth, the Marine guards are going to tear him a new one, and most likely the other inmates as well.

On a light note...If he does want to transition after, then he'll be ready for a lot of "hardcore" scenes LMAO.

[tsmirandameadows]

I bet he's out in 7 or under.

Parole in 10 years is what they're saying in the news, provided he behaves, which I suspect he will.

But yeah, Ft. Leavenworth is not going to be a pleasant place for Manning. Still 35 wouldn't be a horrible time to transition, and if he writes a book or two in prison, I suspect there will be enough of an audience, given what a popular hero he is among the left wing, that he could make the money for transition before he even gets out.

[dderek123]

Manning wrote a letter to Obama asking for a pardon.

"The decisions that I made in 2010 were made out of a concern for my country and the world that we live in. Since the tragic events of 9/11, our country has been at war. We’ve been at war with an enemy that chooses not to meet us on any traditional battlefield, and due to this fact we’ve had to alter our methods of combating the risks posed to us and our way of life.
I initially agreed with these methods and chose to volunteer to help defend my country. It was not until I was in Iraq and reading secret military reports on a daily basis that I started to question the morality of what we were doing. It was at this time I realized that (in) our efforts to meet the risk posed to us by the enemy, we have forgotten our humanity. We consciously elected to devalue human life both in Iraq and Afghanistan. When we engaged those that we perceived were the enemy, we sometimes killed innocent civilians. Whenever we killed innocent civilians, instead of accepting responsibility for our conduct, we elected to hide behind the veil of national security and classified information in order to avoid any public accountability.
In our zeal to kill the enemy, we internally debated the definition of torture. We held individuals at Guantanamo for years without due process. We inexplicably turned a blind eye to torture and executions by the Iraqi government. And we stomached countless other acts in the name of our war on terror.
Patriotism is often the cry extolled when morally questionable acts are advocated by those in power. When these cries of patriotism drown out any logically based dissension, it is usually the American soldier that is given the order to carry out some ill-conceived mission.
Our nation has had similar dark moments for the virtues of democracy – the Trail of Tears, the Dred Scott decision, McCarthyism, and the Japanese-American internment camps – to mention a few. I am confident that many of the actions since 9/11 will one day be viewed in a similar light.
As the late Howard Zinn once said, “There is not a flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.”
I understand that my actions violated the law; I regret if my actions hurt anyone or harmed the United States. It was never my intent to hurt anyone. I only wanted to help people. When I chose to disclose classified information, I did so out of a love for my country and a sense of duty to others.
If you deny my request for a pardon, I will serve my time knowing that sometimes you have to pay a heavy price to live in a free society. I will gladly pay that price if it means we could have a country that is truly conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all women and men are created equal."

http://www.mediaite.com/online/read-bradley-mannings-full-letter-to-obama-requesting-pardon/

[tsmirandameadows]

Obama would never grant it. I don't really think he should either. Often times we do the wrong thing for the right reason, or even the right thing for the right reason, and yet things still turn to shit and we're left holding the bag. It just seems to be a feature of human existence, what with our inability to predict the future and our own mortality limiting the amount of time we have to work with to make amends when we make a major mistake. On the other hand, I'm a big fan of the Greek Tragic Vision and view our capacity to struggle on in light of such limitations as the height of nobility, a view which most modern people are NOT going to agree with or subscribe to, lol.

[dderek123]

I hope he gets it but like you I doubt that it'll happen.

I like that view. Reminds me of the Rocky speech. It gets me pumped up before i go jogging haha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Vg4uyYwEk

[bluesoul]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Vg4uyYwEk

http://is.gd/BWsZmj

[iagodelgado]

Another vote for 7 years or under.

[CORVETTEDUDE]

I can just about guarantee she'll be out in 7 or less, with good behavior. However, there will be no VA benefits she can rely on....that pooch has been screwed!! She will be on her own, in a world where the welcome mat may have been pulled (in general). She (her attorney) is also hoping for a Presidential pardon, which I see little chance of materializing.

[GroobySteven]

She (her attorney) is also hoping for a Presidential pardon, which I see little chance of materializing.

Off this President - but the next might want to pull rank/embarrass/show compassion.

[Wendy Summers]

Just putting it out there but we'll offer him his first shoot when he gets out.

7 years will be a long time to remember who the fuck she is...

[Buddy Wood]

ugh...just like a tranny to stir up all that trouble. It all makes sense now. ;-)

[EvaCassini]

ugh...just like a tranny to stir up all that trouble. It all makes sense now. ;-)

:dead-1:

[sabre666]

Fine, let him live as a woman. Let him live as a woman for as long as it takes to march him in front of a firing squad.

[EvaCassini]

uhhh he/she cant...

[GroobySteven]

Fine, let him live as a woman. Let him live as a woman for as long as it takes to march him in front of a firing squad.

Congratulations! You're an idiot!

[maddygirl]

Fine, let him live as a woman. Let him live as a woman for as long as it takes to march him in front of a firing squad.
Yeah, I mean the "potential harm" that was caused is devestating, huh?

[tommy001]

On the news, want's to be known now as Chelsea Manning, and get hormones. It'll be a long time before Chelsea gets a b/f.

[BellaBellucci]

This thread is delightfully tasteless.

MOAR! MOOOOOAR! :D

~BB~

[tommy001]

My post wasn't meant to be tasteless, When i read it back, it did look a wee bit that way.

[TSBootyLondon]

Its a weird one isn't it!

I mean he announces the day after his sentencing that he wants to be a women. How does this work in the American Criminal justice system?

I know that in Thailand if a Ladyboy is found guilty and sentenced, they are treated like men, totally degraded, head shaved and thrown in with the general population for the duration (There would be plenty of other ladyboys in there also with them, where as there cannot be many in male/female prisons in the US or the UK surely!. trans-genders are more widely accepted in Asia after all.

Where as in the Western world there is still so much prejudice and misunderstanding.

Is she/he serious do you think or is he simply pulling on the mental health heart strings?
Another question that I have, if this was a UK solider and a UK case, he would be granted the right to be who he/she wants to be and the tax payers would 100% foot the bill, in fact he would probably receive his treatment before someone already at the top of the waiting list (Who has been waiting for 10 years I would add)

In the US, who would foot the bill? Would your government cover the costs and would he/she remain in a mans prison???

I hope you all do not think that I am dim asking so many questions! i am generally interested!

x

[LilyRox]

I'm not sure, but I'm sure she'll please many guys in prison on her knees.

[tommy001]

The posts got me thinking. I'm from the UK and don't know the USA prison system. If or when Bradley/Chelsea changed sex. Would that mean transferred to a women's prison?

[BellaBellucci]

My post wasn't meant to be tasteless, When i read it back, it did look a wee bit that way.

I'm referring to the responses. :lol:

~BB~

[tommy001]

I'm referring to the responses. :lol:

~BB~

BB I know that!! After reading when i posted, my post did look very snide. BB Just talking to myself lol. You get like that when you get older!!!

[BellaBellucci]

BB I know that!! After reading when i posted, my post did look very snide. BB Just talking to myself lol. You get like that when you get older!!!

I wouldn't know. I'm in Transsexual Teens 8 & 9, remember. ;)

~BB~

[belfast2]

The posts got me thinking. I'm from the UK and don't know the USA prison system. If or when Bradley/Chelsea changed sex. Would that mean transferred to a women's prison?

Never going to happen, as she's already incarcerated. The only way she'd be transferred to a woman's facility is post srs, and the government isn't even going to allow for hormone treatments, let alone her going post op.

[tommy001]

I wouldn't know. I'm in Transsexual Teens 8 & 9, remember. ;)

~BB~

Typical BB, always has to get the better of someone lol.

[tommy001]

Never going to happen, as she's already incarcerated. The only way she'd be transferred to a woman's facility is post srs, and the government isn't even going to allow for hormone treatments, let alone her going post op.

Would they not have to allow treatment under human rights acts, and all that?

[surf4490]

Fine, let him live as a woman. Let him live as a woman for as long as it takes to march him in front of a firing squad.
Sabre I see you've transitioned from a dick to a complete cunt :fu:

[BellaBellucci]

Typical BB, always has to get the better of someone lol.

It would raise your hair if I told how little I actually try. It's just a natural talent, I guess: a latent genetic trait, like powerbottomism (a very serious male condition for which transsexuals all over the world wish for a cure), for instance. :lol: :cheers:

~BB~

[FreddieGomez]

bella he still has a chance , i mean weren't you as old as him when you started transitioning?

[BellaBellucci]

bella he still has a chance , i mean weren't you as old as him when you started transitioning?

I wasn't in Leavenworth. His existence must be absolute hell right now with that biological clock ticking like that. I'm being dead serious now. That's got to absolutely suck, and honestly, I seriously believe he will attempt suicide more than once. That's the sad truth.

~BB~

[tommy001]

bella he still has a chance , i mean weren't you as old as him when you started transitioning?

Be prepared for one of BB's classic one liners lol

[BellaBellucci]

Be prepared for one of BB's classic one liners lol

Nope. Played it straight this time.

Once you think you can predict me, expect me to change... or don't. It doesn't really matter. I do what I want. :lol:

~BB~

[tommy001]

Nope. Played it straight this time.

Once you think you can predict me, expect me to change... or don't. It doesn't really matter. I do what I want. :lol:

~BB~

I'm saying no more! BB always gets the better of me lol

[surf4490]

Well the army just put this out
"U.S. ARMY SAYS IT DOES NOT PROVIDE HORMONES OR SEX-REASSIGNMENT SURGERY AFTER WIKILEAKS CONVICT BRADLEY MANNING SAYS HE WANTS TO LIVE AS A WOMAN"

[dderek123]

Truth is treason in the empire of lies.
-- Ron Paul

[bluesoul]

Well the army just put this out
"U.S. ARMY SAYS IT DOES NOT PROVIDE HORMONES OR SEX-REASSIGNMENT SURGERY AFTER WIKILEAKS CONVICT BRADLEY MANNING SAYS HE WANTS TO LIVE AS A WOMAN"

yup. they said he's going to get counseling though- because that's provided for any prisoner. also, supposedly united states law means unless you've had srs you're housed in the prison of your born-gender.

http://www.transgenderlaw.org/resources/prisoners.htm

[Ben]

A very interestin' book about Manning.
And she has wanted to transition into a woman for quite some time now.
I hope they stop questioning her motives. As a whistleblower one's motives are irrelevant. I mean, she witnessed a crime -- by her own government -- and she told someone. Under International Law one is obligated to tell someone... if they witness their own government committing crimes. So, she would've broken international law if she had stayed silent. Well, most do stay silent.
Did she break some laws? Yes. But one should ask oneself: who makes the laws and what purposes do they serve.... Actually, who do they serve.
Not all laws are, of course, bad.
Again, she couldn't stay silent when she witnessed her own government committing crimes.
As Glenn Greenwald pointed out: we've been inculcated to think that politicians are above the law.
Point is: nobody is above the law. And Manning understood that. I mean, she reported a crime.

[EvaCassini]

regardless if none of this happened, if he was a regular joe soldier and wanted to transition...

he still would NOT be able to. that's why I got out of the Navy. They now let Gays and Lesbians in, but NOT transgender.

[TSBootyLondon]

In Thailand their heads are shaved, their given mens clothes and thrown in with the men! :-/.. quite cruel. Very degrading!


yup. they said he's going to get counseling though- because that's provided for any prisoner. also, supposedly united states law means unless you've had srs you're housed in the prison of your born-gender.

http://www.transgenderlaw.org/resources/prisoners.htm

[Ben]

Dr. Cornell West, Chris Hedges on Chelsea Manning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWsJNTNNvpE

[Ben]

Chelsea Manning's attorney:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ipRlQFs5ik

[BellaBellucci]

regardless if none of this happened, if he was a regular joe soldier and wanted to transition...

he still would NOT be able to. that's why I got out of the Navy. They now let Gays and Lesbians in, but NOT transgender.

This will likely have to change as DADT is no more and the DSM-V is replacing GID with Gender Dysphoria. The latter is not pathologized, meaning that someone with GD will no longer be considered mentally ill.

~BB~

[EvaCassini]

I know, but that wasn't the case back when I was in and until that occurs as you said, transgender people cannot serve.

[tsmirandameadows]

This will likely have to change as DADT is no more and the DSM-V is replacing GID with Gender Dysphoria. The latter is not pathologized, meaning that someone with GD will no longer be considered mentally ill.

~BB~

Not necessarily. The military makes risk assessments on a person's medical history and can make denials on that. Just because GID will no longer be pathologized doesn't mean you can't be denied entry into the military for having experienced symptoms of Gender Dysphoria. There are a variety of things the military will deny you for, even if you are in perfectly good health, simply because it is risk factor that could POTENTIALLY become a problem in the stress of combat. For transsexuals, while I would've loved the opportunity to have served in the military -- my dad was career Army so I grew up around this stuff -- I also can tell you that being trans is a major risk factor from a psychological/psychiatric perspective. Even if it isn't a pathology, it is a pretty severe trauma and would be even if society was 100% accepting, which it isn't. Given the severity of the psychological trauma that is inflicted by being trans, I think it is entirely reasonable for the military to say: "You're up to the job now, but will you be after 6 months in a combat zone with still 6 months to go? We'd rather train and invest in someone who doesn't have this risk factor."

I mean the only reason I'm not in the Army now -- and probably hating life awfully hard, lol -- is that I was prescribed some Prozac for a few months as a teenager. If that can legitimately stop a military career, why would anyone expect the military to suddenly start accepting transsexuals even if society is becoming more accepting of us at large?

[EvaCassini]

I was diagnosed 2x before enlisting. I still got in. And more interesting, it was on my permanent Navel medical record. Everyone knew.

[Ms.Stepford]

I think it's been proven time and time again that trans women are quite up to the job in combat zones. I wish they'd have me back, but the IRR doesn't even call me anymore.

All the misgendering in this thread is shameful, especially from the girls, by the way.

[Ben]

Bradley Manning Is Now Chelsea Manning And... - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1OsjUMXGxA)

[tsmirandameadows]

I was diagnosed 2x before enlisting. I still got in. And more interesting, it was on my permanent Navel medical record. Everyone knew.

Well all I can say is that I checked a box on a form for history of depression, then had to submit pages upon pages of medical records, wait through a several month review process, get denied, try for a waiver, and get denied the waiver. This was in 2004 btw, so maybe things have changed since then.

[tsmirandameadows]

I think it's been proven time and time again that trans women are quite up to the job in combat zones. I wish they'd have me back, but the IRR doesn't even call me anymore.

All the misgendering in this thread is shameful, especially from the girls, by the way.

I'm not saying individuals aren't up to the job, I'm saying that the military has a legitimate interest in making risk assessments and denying potential recruits based upon risk factors. The fact that many transsexuals have served in combat admirably doesn't mean that being trans isn't a risk factor.

I'm a certified personal trainer and when I've worked with clients, a big part of what I do in initial assessment is do a risk stratification. I've never had a client go into angina pectoralis but that doesn't mean both I and client don't have a legitimate interest in doing a risk stratification and taking precautions based upon the risk factors that are identified. Just because you're a male over age 45 doesn't mean you are guaranteed to go into angina, but you are MORE likely to do so, and if you've been a smoker and sedentary, then you're getting a doctors clearance before we do anything but sub-maximal testing and exercise prescription. Likewise, the military needs to do risk stratification when recruiting -- it's expensive as shit to train a soldier -- and in my opinion being a transsexual IS a risk factor.

[BellaBellucci]

What I'm reading into the comments here is that this sounds like it'll be determined on a case-by-case basis, but at very least, a GD diagnosis will not likely NECESSARILY make one unfit for service.

~BB~

[EvaCassini]

I enlisted in 08'

[Rivz]

I wanted to join but they had a don't ask don't tell policy on fat people too, the army is a bunch of fatists!

[Ben]

Is America Ready to Discuss Transgender Issues? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6rwfIeTqwg)

[bobjones17]

Can't believe we've got this far and I'm the first one to say this...but the pictures being shown of Chelsea aren't half-bad considering Bradley hasn't (to my knowledge) started to really transition or take hormones, etc. Hopefully that gives her a strong enough foundation (mentally at least) to get through incarceration and pursue it after (assuming she still wants to afterwards).

[Quiet Reflections]

I hate to say it but I think he will kill himself in less than 5 years if he gets the chance otherwise I think he will serve at least 10-15 years before he even get the chance to see a letter from the parole board.

[sabre666]

Congratulations! You're an idiot!
And you're obviously an asshole who knows nothing about what constitutes treason and the legitimate punishment for it.
Did you ever serve in the military, smartass?
I'm betting no. Because otherwise you'd know just what this shit-stain violated and you'd also understand that he got over.
I did serve & I know exactly what I'm talking about.
You don't like it ? Tough shit, next time chew harder!

[Merkurie]

I hate to say it but I think he will kill himself in less than 5 years if he gets the chance otherwise I think he will serve at least 10-15 years before he even get the chance to see a letter from the parole board.

Sad to say, but I am thinking the same thing.

[maddygirl]

And you're obviously an asshole who knows nothing about what constitutes treason and the legitimate punishment for it.
Did you ever serve in the military, smartass?
I'm betting no. Because otherwise you'd know just what this shit-stain violated and you'd also understand that he got over.
I did serve & I know exactly what I'm talking about.
You don't like it ? Tough shit, next time chew harder!
Do you not understand that she exposed WAR CRIMES? But, the war criminals aren't even being charged? Don't you think that's a bit... ridiculous? I'm sick of seeing stupid interviews about the "potential harm" that she could have caused, all in an attempt to beat around the bush and disguise the real issue of the US war crimes which have gone unpunished and swept under the rug. Is this justice to you?

[sabre666]

Yeah, I mean the "potential harm" that was caused is devestating, huh?
We'll never know what "potential harm" or actual harm his leaks caused because it was and still is considered classified material.
That's the whole point here.
They can't say who died as a result of what he did, and they can't say he actually caused harm to A, B or C because that would disclose more classified data.
It could very easily put more lives at risk.
When I was in the service, I had a clearance like his. I know what the repercussions of leaking the kinds of information he blabbed about are. Kids losing a parent due to a so-called "training accident" or a consulate being attacked in just the right spot at just the "right"(?) time.
If you act on info, you could save a life, but you could cost your informant his life and give away your network and cost many more lives in the long run.
This is NOT an LGBT issue.
This is NOT about his "Sexual mis-identification".
This NOT some college Poly-Sci "What-if" scenario.
This IS reality and it's about treason, plain and simple.
And the penalty under the UCMJ for his real crime is a firing squad.

[Queens Guy]

I hate to say it but I think he will kill himself in less than 5 years if he gets the chance otherwise I think he will serve at least 10-15 years before he even get the chance to see a letter from the parole board.

If he doesn't get killed first. If regular inmates look down on some of the other inmates, like child rapists, Manning's fellow inmates are still soldiers. Soldiers don't like traitors. (Even if you don't happen to think he's a traitor, some of them probably do.) The guards won't mind looking the other way, either. Bradley/Chelsea will always be looking over his shoulder.

[Rusty Eldora]

This "coming out" seems to be quite coincidental with the sentencing. There must be an agenda.

Transitioning in a Military prison would not be the best place to do that. It just opened up a lot more groups of prisoners that don't like you, or be their girls shared around.

As to TS in the military, if just entering I think a TS would have a high risk of not succeeding, needing to be tough by day, fem by night burns the candle at both ends. High chance of flaming out.

However, if already in and your job performance is up to par, they should be able to stay. At least she won't get pregnant at sea. the determination to transition is the same as the determination to succeed so they can be very good.

[Johnny.Blaze]

Here's a very good interview on this matter that I thought you all would enjoy. I think ZJ handled herself very well...

I was on TV again - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaNbPPOhZg4)

[Johnny.Blaze]

If no one has heard of Zinnia Jones, I highly recommend you take a listen to her youtube page. Very bright & educated. I've followed her vids for quite awhile...

Here's another interview with her regarding this story...

I was on TV last night - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp_Q_XrYSUs&feature=share&list=UUamaea05bOJ0q42F9iyaFMA)

[Jericho]

Sorry, can't listen to her, she sounds like one of those Voice to Speech programs!

[Quiet Reflections]

If he doesn't get killed first. If regular inmates look down on some of the other inmates, like child rapists, Manning's fellow inmates are still soldiers. Soldiers don't like traitors. (Even if you don't happen to think he's a traitor, some of them probably do.) The guards won't mind looking the other way, either. Bradley/Chelsea will always be looking over his shoulder.
very true but I always thought Fort Leavenworth was a super max. If that is the case there might not even be a chance for anyone to get near him...but then we are talking about prison so I guess anything can happen

[Jericho]

Sorry, can't listen to her, she sounds like one of those Voice to Speech programs!

Voice to Speech?
Fuckit, you know what I mean!

[Johnny.Blaze]

Sorry, can't listen to her, she sounds like one of those Voice to Speech programs!

LOL-yea I know what you mean. She seems to write everything down, then read what she's suppose to say. Sort of like a news reporter. She speaks in a sort of stern type of manner. But in all fairness, she's very, very knowledgeable, and an advocate for Trans issues. I suppose you have to get past the way she talks, and just try and understand her views.

[SugaSweet]

Don't drop the soap Chelsea

[GroobySteven]

And you're obviously an asshole who knows nothing about what constitutes treason and the legitimate punishment for it.
Did you ever serve in the military, smartass?
I'm betting no. Because otherwise you'd know just what this shit-stain violated and you'd also understand that he got over.
I did serve & I know exactly what I'm talking about.
You don't like it ? Tough shit, next time chew harder!

So you would be the Nazi who was "just following orders" rather than question your leadership and the crimes they committed. What a stand up piece of work you must be!!

Big deal, you were in the military - so you took a job that you could get, what does that have to do with anything? I've done a bunch of jobs that required harder and dirtier work than most of the military that I know - and I didn't have to "serve" anyone. You done it for a paycheck - get over that, smart ass.

[DCGuy343]

very true but I always thought Fort Leavenworth was a super max. If that is the case there might not even be a chance for anyone to get near him...but then we are talking about prison so I guess anything can happen

I think that Levenworth has been converted to a medium security prison now and even has a minimum security prison camp there as well.

[volkov2006]

And you're obviously an asshole who knows nothing about what constitutes treason and the legitimate punishment for it.
Did you ever serve in the military, smartass?
I'm betting no. Because otherwise you'd know just what this shit-stain violated and you'd also understand that he got over.
I did serve & I know exactly what I'm talking about.
You don't like it ? Tough shit, next time chew harder!

You do realize that the rules of war override military rules. She saw war crimes, it is her responsibility to report them. If she did not report them she would have been just as guilty as those who committed them. I agree with what seanchai said about the Nazi soldiers just following orders, a good soldier does not just follow orders, a good soldier questions the morality of the orders.

Also she did not commit treason, she released the information to the press for the American public not to the enemy. Unless you believe the American people are the enemy? Also among the information release there was also information about how the US government lobbied other countries to continue to oppress there people. Haiti in particular, we pressured the government to vote down a minimum wage increase just so vacationing there would not become more expensive.

The US has always branded themselves as the "good guys", and we still do. Do the good guys kill children? Do they invade a country illegally? Do they drop bombs on civilians just because they fit a general profile? Do they kill first responders, firefighters, police, EMTs? Do the lie to their own people? We have left the good guy title and have moved into the bullies of the world.

Also in the video that she released people say that the Apache pilots where following the rules of engagement, forgive me if I am wrong, but last I looked that is DO NOT FIRE UNLESS FIRED UPON! Also earlier this year I read an article, not sure when I believe it was in Jan or Feb, where the US changed the definition of military aged male from what it used to be. In 2001 the age was 18, then it was moved down to 16, then 14, then 12, right now the US considers military aged male at the age of 8 years old. How could a soldier not question that?

Also form what I understand is that Chelsea Manning only wants to have hormone treatment not SRS. I may be wrong with that though.

[EvaCassini]

You do realize that the rules of war override military rules. She saw war crimes, it is her responsibility to report them. If she did not report them she would have been just as guilty as those who committed them. I agree with what seanchai said about the Nazi soldiers just following orders, a good soldier does not just follow orders, a good soldier questions the morality of the orders.

Also she did not commit treason, she released the information to the press for the American public not to the enemy. Unless you believe the American people are the enemy? Also among the information release there was also information about how the US government lobbied other countries to continue to oppress there people. Haiti in particular, we pressured the government to vote down a minimum wage increase just so vacationing there would not become more expensive.

The US has always branded themselves as the "good guys", and we still do. Do the good guys kill children? Do they invade a country illegally? Do they drop bombs on civilians just because they fit a general profile? Do they kill first responders, firefighters, police, EMTs? Do the lie to their own people? We have left the good guy title and have moved into the bullies of the world.

Also in the video that she released people say that the Apache pilots where following the rules of engagement, forgive me if I am wrong, but last I looked that is DO NOT FIRE UNLESS FIRED UPON! Also earlier this year I read an article, not sure when I believe it was in Jan or Feb, where the US changed the definition of military aged male from what it used to be. In 2001 the age was 18, then it was moved down to 16, then 14, then 12, right now the US considers military aged male at the age of 8 years old. How could a soldier not question that?

Also form what I understand is that Chelsea Manning only wants to have hormone treatment not SRS. I may be wrong with that though.

Well said sir! :)

[Gillian]

On the subject of his gender reassignment, I heard Paris Lees (transgendered journalist) saying that as gender dysphoria is a recognised medical condition, he ought to receive hormone treatment whilst in prison, as denying healthcare would be a breach of his human rights. Whether that's a view shared by the US authorities, we'll have to wait and see ...

[GroobySteven]

You do realize that the rules of war override military rules. She saw war crimes, it is her responsibility to report them. If she did not report them she would have been just as guilty as those who committed them. I agree with what seanchai said about the Nazi soldiers just following orders, a good soldier does not just follow orders, a good soldier questions the morality of the orders.

Also she did not commit treason, she released the information to the press for the American public not to the enemy. Unless you believe the American people are the enemy? Also among the information release there was also information about how the US government lobbied other countries to continue to oppress there people. Haiti in particular, we pressured the government to vote down a minimum wage increase just so vacationing there would not become more expensive.

The US has always branded themselves as the "good guys", and we still do. Do the good guys kill children? Do they invade a country illegally? Do they drop bombs on civilians just because they fit a general profile? Do they kill first responders, firefighters, police, EMTs? Do the lie to their own people? We have left the good guy title and have moved into the bullies of the world.

Also in the video that she released people say that the Apache pilots where following the rules of engagement, forgive me if I am wrong, but last I looked that is DO NOT FIRE UNLESS FIRED UPON! Also earlier this year I read an article, not sure when I believe it was in Jan or Feb, where the US changed the definition of military aged male from what it used to be. In 2001 the age was 18, then it was moved down to 16, then 14, then 12, right now the US considers military aged male at the age of 8 years old. How could a soldier not question that?

Also form what I understand is that Chelsea Manning only wants to have hormone treatment not SRS. I may be wrong with that though.


Great post.

[Ben]

Trans Activists Praise Chelsea Manning, Raise Fears over Prison Conditions:

"Empowering, So Brave": Trans Activists Praise Chelsea Manning, Raise Fears over Prison Conditions - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MkbM4rSFt4)

[BellaBellucci]

I actually agree with Steven?

http://humor.beecy.net/misc/hellfrozeover/hell-froze-over.jpg

Mommy, I'm cold! *shiver*

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

PS: I still think the timing of the transition announcement is a PR ploy for sympathy. Sorry not sorry.

Visions of Corporal Klinger are dancing in my head.

~BB~

[Rabbiteyes]

PS: I still think the timing of the transition announcement is a PR ploy for sympathy. Sorry not sorry.

Visions of Corporal Klinger are dancing in my head.

~BB~

Yea, because if there is anything the general public is sympathetic towards it is trans women? :|

[BellaBellucci]

Yea, because if there is anything the general public is sympathetic towards it is trans women? :|

... which is the real problem here: it forces the public, half of whom already hate Manning, to instead chalk up this only recently high-profile aspect of the case to mental illness or desperation instead of transsexualism, when in reality the aspect we should be discussing is the extent to which Manning's gender issues made him vulnerable to be used in the first place.

Why would someone who wanted to change their life so badly want to throw it away over a few diplomatic cables to which a PRIVATE had access... unless there were other manipulations or mental health issues at play? He wasn't even on hormones before the incident. Had he been, this would all be a non-issue. It reeks of opportunism and attention whoring.

But inevitably, it's the idea that the mainstream might conflate transexualism with mental illness that forces me to hope that the mainstream media will NOT acquiesce to Manning's request to be called Chelsea.

Talk to me again after he gets a legal name change.

~BB~

[EvaCassini]

he wouldnt have been able to take hormones before anyways.

[BellaBellucci]

he wouldnt have been able to take hormones before anyways.

What would have happened if he got them on the low before being charged? Would the military prison have to continue the treatment? And even that says nothing of public opinion. But more importantly, why didn't they have a closer eye on someone who had access to classified materials? If they had, he would have been discharged, for better or worse, and all of this would have been avoided.

~BB~

[sabre666]

So you would be the Nazi who was "just following orders" rather than question your leadership and the crimes they committed. What a stand up piece of work you must be!!

Big deal, you were in the military - so you took a job that you could get, what does that have to do with anything? I've done a bunch of jobs that required harder and dirtier work than most of the military that I know - and I didn't have to "serve" anyone. You done it for a paycheck - get over that, smart ass.
"Big deal, you were in the military - so you took a job that you could get",
"You done it for a paycheck"
Typical comments from an asshole who doesn't get it.
And comparing me to a Nazi because I understand the difference between following the chain of command and reporting violations to the JAG, and running to a rabid Leftist journalist with an axe to grind against the US Military, is infantile.

[Johnny.Blaze]

"Big deal, you were in the military - so you took a job that you could get",
"You done it for a paycheck"
Typical comments from an asshole who doesn't get it.
And comparing me to a Nazi because I understand the difference between following the chain of command and reporting violations to the JAG, and running to a rabid Leftist journalist with an axe to grind against the US Military, is infantile.

"Who let the buzz kill in the room - lol"

[EvaCassini]

"Big deal, you were in the military - so you took a job that you could get",
"You done it for a paycheck"
Typical comments from an asshole who doesn't get it.
And comparing me to a Nazi because I understand the difference between following the chain of command and reporting violations to the JAG, and running to a rabid Leftist journalist with an axe to grind against the US Military, is infantile.

You know....

I was in the military and know all about what you said.

But...I know the politics of the military.

I still agree with Seanchai. These "secrets" being brought to JAG would've done nothing and they would have keep it under wraps.

[Ben]

Manning’s Letter To President Obama Requesting Pardon:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/full-text-bradley-mannings-letter-obama-pardon.php

[callahac]

It's a distraction- put out there so the discussion moves from possible war crimes committed by the U.S. govt to whether tax payer dollars should finance his hormone therapy in prison. Who knows if it is even true. Bottomline is Americans love this sort of stuff so the talking heads on the left and right can have their shouting matches on tv, meanwhile the whole business of war crimes is swept from the public consciousness.

[BellaBellucci]

It's a distraction- put out there so the discussion moves from possible war crimes committed by the U.S. govt to whether tax payer dollars should finance his hormone therapy in prison. Who knows if it is even true. Bottomline is Americans love this sort of stuff so the talking heads on the left and right can have their shouting matches on tv, meanwhile the whole business of war crimes is swept from the public consciousness.

A Bella Point for you, sir. :Bowdown:

~BB~

[KiraHarden]

I'm a 6 year honorable discharged disabled combat war vet and the government or states should pay my hormones/srs costs before this convicted felon or any of these two bit TG hoodlooms for that matter. They made their own Fucked up choices.

[joeninety]

I'm a 6 year honorable discharged disabled combat war vet and the government or states should pay my hormones/srs costs before this convicted felon or any of these two bit TG hoodlooms for that matter. They made their own Fucked up choices.


With that type of attitude you deserve diddly squat....He has done a service, reporting these war crimes and now he has been served an injustice.....What was your big contribution to society???

[sabre666]

You know....

I was in the military and know all about what you said.

But...I know the politics of the military.

I still agree with Seanchai. These "secrets" being brought to JAG would've done nothing and they would have keep it under wraps.
Thank you for that acknowledgement and as one vet to another, I respect your opinion although I definitely disagree with it.
I've seen the JAG work & not work, so I know what you mean.
I just can't excuse the violation of his oath the way he did it. The other option was to go to his Congressman or Senator.
As for his transition, that only came out during his trial by his attorney.
It may be legit but that's what made him do what he did? Are we kidding ourselves?
There are plenty of service members that have transitioned after their service and NONE, that I'm aware of, have violated their oath of service (other than being gay prior to DADT).
I still think the revelation was just to try to garner sympathy from the liberal side of the aisle and ride the wave of acceptance that Obama & his admin have shown with the repeal of DADT.

And Seanchai : If you had posted a differing opinion in the same manner as Eva did, instead of being a dick, I would have responded in kind. But you had to be an asshole, as if this is your playground and you get to call the shots.

[sabre666]

I'm a 6 year honorable discharged disabled combat war vet and the government or states should pay my hormones/srs costs before this convicted felon or any of these two bit TG hoodlooms for that matter. They made their own Fucked up choices.
Kira, from a Grunt to an Airhog : HooAhh
BTW, your look gorgeous. Uncle Sap would've just screwed it up.

[KiraHarden]

Kira, from a Grunt to an Airhog : HooAhh
BTW, your look gorgeous. Uncle Sap would've just screwed it up.

I was 13B my first enlistment and then reenlisted as 95B

[sabre666]

With that type of attitude you deserve diddly squat....He has done a service, reporting these war crimes and now he has been served an injustice.....What was your big contribution to society???
Did you miss the HONORABLY DISCHARGED DISABLED WAR VET part? That is her "contribution to society". She and all other vets made that "contribution to society", enabling people like yourself the freedom to be whatever kind of snide, insulting wretch you choose to be.

This quote from "A Few Good Men", while a little over the top and I'm sure misinterpreted, spells it out quite well :
"Son, we live in a world that has walls and those walls need to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and curse the Marines; you have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives and that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use then as the backbone of a life trying to defend something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to." : Col Jessup.

[sabre666]

I was 13B my first enlistment and then reenlisted as 95B
You were a Red-Leg? I thought you were Air Force.
LoL,
I was a 63B before I became a 95B too.

[TempestTS]

Aim above morality. Be not simply good, be good for something. - Thoreau

[KiraHarden]

Kira, from a Grunt to an Airhog : HooAhh
BTW, your look gorgeous. Uncle Sap would've just screwed it up.


You were a Red-Leg? I thought you were Air Force.
LoL,
I was a 63B before I became a 95B too. YEP, WITH 1ST AD and then with MP with 2AD in Ft hood

[fred41]

With that type of attitude you deserve diddly squat....He has done a service, reporting these war crimes and now he has been served an injustice.....What was your big contribution to society???

She honored the contract of her employment...Manning didn't. Simple.

[KiraHarden]

With that type of attitude you deserve diddly squat....He has done a service, reporting these war crimes and now he has been served an injustice.....What was your big contribution to society???

My contributions regardless if they were few or many, matter not. They will never equal the ultimate sacrifice of the men and woman who gave their lives defending their countries for freedom

[iagodelgado]

63B. 95B? If you want to keep on being un-understandable to those of us who have not served in the US military, keep pumping out the numbers.

26C. 113A?

Does one care?

[KiraHarden]

[QUOTE=iagodelgado;1383030]63B. 95B? If you want to keep on being un-understandable to those of us who have not served in the US military, keep pumping out the numbers.

26C. 113A?

People seem to care about theses numbers (38DDD) my surgeon pumped out

Ill leave the pumping out numbers to my BA surgeon

[fred41]

63B. 95B? If you want to keep on being un-understandable to those of us who have not served in the US military, keep pumping out the numbers.

26C. 113A?

Does one care?

They're chatting directly to each other.
No one else. No one else is meant to care.
It happens on many threads. Once in a while people even use other languages.
If you really want to know...google it.
I suspect you don't really want to know though.

[Ben in LA]

And Seanchai : If you had posted a differing opinion in the same manner as Eva did, instead of being a dick, I would have responded in kind. But you had to be an asshole, as if this is your playground and you get to call the shots.
Actually, this IS his playground...just sayin'...

[GroobySteven]

"Big deal, you were in the military - so you took a job that you could get",
"You done it for a paycheck"
Typical comments from an asshole who doesn't get it.
And comparing me to a Nazi because I understand the difference between following the chain of command and reporting violations to the JAG, and running to a rabid Leftist journalist with an axe to grind against the US Military, is infantile.

I get completely - it's you that doesn't and you've just proven it again.

Unless you were drafted you made a choice to take a job that you could get and wanted to do. That's the start and end of it.
Refusing to question orders - that sounds fairly Nazi like to me.

[GroobySteven]

And Seanchai : If you had posted a differing opinion in the same manner as Eva did, instead of being a dick, I would have responded in kind. But you had to be an asshole, as if this is your playground and you get to call the shots.

Excuse you - but when you come suggesting Manning should be executed, then you're an asshole, no matter whose playground you're in. I don't dispute the fact that he (or she) needs to serve some time for it, what I dispute is your view of the situation. You made an asshole statement - and then backed it up with your "following orders". You wonder why I compared you to a soldier in Germany during WW2?

[sabre666]

63B. 95B? If you want to keep on being un-understandable to those of us who have not served in the US military, keep pumping out the numbers.

26C. 113A?

Does one care?
No disrespect intended. LoL
Former service members always slip back into mil-speak when we're talking to each other.
Those were the Military Occupation Specialty (MOS) codes for our job titles in the service.
For example :
13B : Artillery crewmember
63B : Light Wheeled Vehicle Mechanic (now 91B)
95B : Military Police (now 31B)
11B : Infantry

[sabre666]

Excuse you - but when you come suggesting Manning should be executed, then you're an asshole, no matter whose playground you're in. I don't dispute the fact that he (or she) needs to serve some time for it, what I dispute is your view of the situation. You made an asshole statement - and then backed it up with your "following orders". You wonder why I compared you to a soldier in Germany during WW2?
Well then, all I can say to that is (since I obviously need to keep it simple for you) :
Fuck you and the whore that shit you out.
You have a nice day now!

[fred41]

The biggest problem I have with the whole Manning fiasco is, how the fuck did someone with all these warning signals ever get that type of access...it's almost unfathomable?
..and Manning's not the only one.
There's a lot of irresponsibility to go around.
...and that also has to change.

[GroobySteven]

Well then, all I can say to that is (since I obviously need to keep it simple for you) :
Fuck you and the whore that shit you out.
You have a nice day now!


Hmmmm ...
:hide-1:

I guess you did keep it simple. Bye!

[EvaCassini]

wow...that escalated quickly. lol

[sabre666]

Thanks Fred.
Didn't mean to exclude anyone.
Old habits die hard.

[sabre666]

wow...that escalated quickly. lol
Yeah. Oops.
That old German-Irish temper does run a little hot!

Look Seachai, let's just agree to disagree and stop the name-calling.
It ill-serves both of us.
Deal?

[joeninety]

My contributions regardless if they were few or many, matter not. They will never equal the ultimate sacrifice of the men and woman who gave their lives defending their countries for freedom

No disrespect but you are just following the mantra that has been drummed into your head upon enlistment, freedom, democracy and sacrafice.......Wars are by products that just make a small few very very rich via asset stripping of the country they go to war with. Sad thing is gen pop buys into the company policy which is a shame really..... If more people were enlightened and compassionate like Manning then there would be no more needless bloodshed!!!

[joeninety]

Did you miss the HONORABLY DISCHARGED DISABLED WAR VET part? That is her "contribution to society". She and all other vets made that "contribution to society", enabling people like yourself the freedom to be whatever kind of snide, insulting wretch you choose to be.

This quote from "A Few Good Men", while a little over the top and I'm sure misinterpreted, spells it out quite well :
"Son, we live in a world that has walls and those walls need to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and curse the Marines; you have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives and that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use then as the backbone of a life trying to defend something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest that you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to." : Col Jessup.

You are seriously naive..........you are nothing more than a foolish unquestioning drone its people like you that help perpetuate this fallacy of freedom and democracy......Its Bs, its all there in history, go do some reading and get back to when you find the truth!!!

[sabre666]

No disrespect but you are just following the mantra that has been drummed into your head upon enlistment, freedom, democracy and sacrafice.......Wars are by products that just make a small few very very rich via asset stripping of the country they go to war with. Sad thing is gen pop buys into the company policy which is a shame really..... If more people were enlightened and compassionate like Manning then there would be no more needless bloodshed!!!
I have to disagree with your premise if not your sentiment. Humans are a predator species. What makes us relatively unique is that, unlike other predators, we actively prey on our own kind. The only other creature that behaves like us is the Chimpanzee (who co-incidentally share 90% of our DNA, scary isn't it?)
Look back on history. Peace is the exception rather than the rule.
I wish things could be as you say, but human nature is what it is.

[sabre666]

You are seriously naive..........you are nothing more than a foolish unquestioning drone its people like you that help perpetuate this fallacy of freedom and democracy......Its Bs, its all there in history, go do some reading and get back to when you find the truth!!!
No, not naïve and most certainly not a drone of any stripe. A realist.

[sabre666]

You are seriously naive..........you are nothing more than a foolish unquestioning drone its people like you that help perpetuate this fallacy of freedom and democracy......Its Bs, its all there in history, go do some reading and get back to when you find the truth!!!
Not to be too blunt about it, but if it weren't for people like those who served, volunteers and draftees alike, You wouldn't be here to say what you're saying. Nor would I.
If straight and Christian, we'd be in a camp somewhere.
If Gay or Jewish, we'd be in an ashtray.
Horrible but true.
Sometimes war is a necessary evil.

[joeninety]

I have to disagree with your premise if not your sentiment. Humans are a predator species. What makes us relatively unique is that, unlike other predators, we actively prey on our own kind. The only other creature that behaves like us is the Chimpanzee (who co-incidentally share 90% of our DNA, scary isn't it?)
Look back on history. Peace is the exception rather than the rule.
I wish things could be as you say, but human nature is what it is.


Humans have a sheep mentality, shepherded by the wicked then so they will become, shepherded and raised by the meek then so they shall become too.

If we are all predators we would have wiped ourselves out many moons ago its the captains of our ships that determine which way our boat sails, whether that be to the path of violence or not. Peace is not the exception look around most people want to live in peace but the power hungry crazed defects like division, its far easier to control a un-unified herd, United we stand Divided we fall..........

[EvaCassini]

Actually, we aren't much of a predator species. What got us out of being "in the food-chain" was technology. Our brains developed more, that's why we don't have talons, large fangs, or ejaculate venom.

As a species on this planet, we have a much higher capacity to think our way out of trouble. That "predatory instinct" turned into a "Survival instinct". We adapted, with our brainstuff, to improve our lives for survival.

If shit were to hit the fan, one better hope to have watched a bunch of Nature Documentaries, especially now in modern times, where we are incredibly dependent on technology and consuming.

Our "leaders" want to keep the consuming instinct and fear of surviving within their followers because they gain profit. Profit, a man-made device used to collect more and more of a man-made ideological object, money.

[sabre666]

Humans have a sheep mentality, shepherded by the wicked then so they will become, shepherded and raised by the meek then so they shall become too.

If we are all predators we would have wiped ourselves out many moons ago its the captains of our ships that determine which way our boat sails, whether that be to the path of violence or not. Peace is not the exception look around most people want to live in peace but the power hungry crazed defects like division, its far easier to control a un-unified herd, United we stand Divided we fall..........
Interesting perspective.

[joeninety]

Not to be too blunt about it, but if it weren't for people like those who served, volunteers and draftees alike, You wouldn't be here to say what you're saying. Nor would I.
If straight and Christian, we'd be in a camp somewhere.
If Gay or Jewish, we'd be in an ashtray.
Horrible but true.
Sometimes war is a necessary evil.

That's just another fallacy created by the warmongers that you have fallen into believing........Instead its not us its them right......so we invade here there and everywhere that was never a threat, decimate innocent populations into rack and ruin under the guise it was for there own good....Tell me how is that so????............Look at the bigger picture then get back to me.

[sabre666]

Actually, we aren't much of a predator species. What got us out of being "in the food-chain" was technology. Our brains developed more, that's why we don't have talons, large fangs, or ejaculate venom.

As a species on this planet, we have a much higher capacity to think our way out of trouble. That "predatory instinct" turned into a "Survival instinct". We adapted, with our brainstuff, to improve our lives for survival.

If shit were to hit the fan, one better hope to have watched a bunch of Nature Documentaries, especially now in modern times, where we are incredibly dependent on technology and consuming.

Our "leaders" want to keep the consuming instinct and fear of surviving within their followers because they gain profit. Profit, a man-made device used to collect more and more of a man-made ideological object, money.
Very true. We have evolved but we still have that predatory instinct in many of us. Look at the crime rates. The only reason they really have come down is pro-active policing (bear with me here). White collar crime and street crime are for the most part driven by greed and that predatory instinct.

[joeninety]

Very true. We have evolved but we still have that predatory instinct in many of us. Look at the crime rates. The only reason they really have come down is pro-active policing (bear with me here). White collar crime and street crime are for the most part driven by greed and that predatory instinct.

Most of those criminals would not have been had they had decent opportunities..the problem could be solved but they are part of a want.....without them what is to fear, why have police, courts, justice etc lot of jobs gone a major control tool unravelled.

You should have added that most wars if not all are driven by greed. Greed by leaders and a system you seem to have so much respect for, and a system ideaology you seem to have really bought into, something Manning did not and more power to him for standing up for what was morally right........

[EvaCassini]

Collective instinct shouldn't be confused with predatory instinct.

A Collective instinct is what everyone has, down to their deepest cell. Everything in this world is geared to abuse this collective instinct mindset which we all have. Food, games, money, power, land, furniture, cards, caps, bottles, cars, houses, people.

What's the point of war?

I'll tell you. Not to kill.

More like, "collecting" profit, man-power, allegiance, land, resources, and ideals.

With the day and age we live in now, those "white collar" crimes should not be tolerated.
As for crime rates....that's the survival instinct...

"Survival of the fittest". Those with more "power" ( either physical or mental ) has the greater advantage. Evolution dictates survival. We evolved to have greater brain capacity which then allowed us to think our way to the top.

[joeninety]

Collective instinct shouldn't be confused with predatory instinct.

A Collective instinct is what everyone has, down to their deepest cell. Everything in this world is geared to abuse this collective instinct mindset which we all have. Food, games, money, power, land, furniture, cards, caps, bottles, cars, houses, people.

What's the point of war?

I'll tell you. Not to kill.

More like, "collecting" profit, man-power, allegiance, land, resources, and ideals.

With the day and age we live in now, those "white collar" crimes should not be tolerated.
As for crime rates....that's the survival instinct...

"Survival of the fittest". Those with more "power" ( either physical or mental ) has the greater advantage. Evolution dictates survival. We evolved to have greater brain capacity which then allowed us to think our way to the top.


Well said!!!

[volkov2006]

She honored the contract of her employment...Manning didn't. Simple.

Manning may have broken her oath to the US military, but she honored the Laws and Rules of Warfare. Which overrides the oath US military service members take it is just that simple. Would we have tried a German soldier who was not part of the Nazi party, who told the German people that their government was committing atrocities, but who did not commit them himself? What if this soldier had told the Allies, gave them information about the camps, wrongdoings, and ended up saving thousands of civilian live? Would we have charged this soldier for treason, aiding the enemy, and for these atrocities?

The US government did commit war crimes, it is just that simple. If you look into the details you will see that Manning did try to go through the chain of command, and what the government considers a legitimate news source. None of them did anything so what was she to do? These things were being carried out by the US government in our (the US peoples) name, what the government and the military, give pride and shame to us all. Before Manning brought this information to our attention how many soldiers and intelligence agents saw these same atrocities and said nothing. Manning also was tortured by the US military, since when is it okay to torture anyone, even our own?

I am also really surprised at that bigoted words I am reading in this thread. This is a forum about transgender/transsexual people and the people who are attracted/interested in them. When has it become okay to call a transgender person "IT" or to refer to her in the wrong pronoun, "HE/HIM". It should not matter what the person did, or will do, whether they have completed their transition or are just starting to transition. These comments I would have expected on a site that was not geared to transgender/transsexuals, but here I would have thought that you people would be more enlightened, more understanding. I guess it just show that a lot of people here when they are pressured or emotional about a subject their true bigoted ways come out. That a lot of people are here not to support the trans community but to just get an eyeful so they can get themselves off. I was hoping to come here and see enlightened words after seeing all of the horrendous words and opinions on the internet and TV. I have no problem with peoples opinion, but when it comes to the trans community these opinions are the type of things that usually get us beaten or killed. I just have to think how many of you people who come here look at the provocative pictures and threads also find it a tragedy for a trans person being beaten or killed and then come in here and show bigoted remarks towards this person. Whether you agree with what this person did or disagree with what she did, that does not give you the right to disrespect who they are or how she wants to live her life from now on. Whether you agree or disagree does not give you the right to strip this person of her rights under the US constitution and what ever you say she did not violate the constitution she is not a traitor, unless you consider the US people the enemy of the US government or military.

I myself have not served and probably will not serve in the military. I have respect for the people who serve but unlike other people I do not see them as heroes, unless they do things to prove they are. I have no respect for military members or veterans who just because they served or are serving they believe themselves above everyone else in the US. Also believe themselves above the rules of war when serving. You have the same rights and privileges as the rest of us citizens, be proud of your service don't throw it back in our faces whenever you fell like it to prove your point. I am tired of going anywhere and hearing how we should support our troops or when a soldier walks in to a room everyone whats to acknowledge their presence and service. Also showing up in their uniform at social events just to get better service, I have seen that more than 15 times this year alone. I am tired of getting into a debate with someone only to have them tell me I am wrong because they served in the military. As I said earlier in my post how many soldiers saw the civilian deaths and said nothing, those people are not heroes they are just soldiers doing their job and losing my respect day after day, atrocity after atrocity.

One thing military personnel and government officials always say that we have to go to war to protect our freedoms. During WWII the Germans presented a threat they had a military capable of inflicting severe damage to the world. The former Soviet Union as well would do the same. Where was the treat posed by North Korea, North Vietnam, Serbia, Somalia, Iraq, Yemen, Pakistan, or any of these other counties that we have intervened? I am all for humanitarian aid, stopping genocide, bringing peace to an unstable region, and protecting allies, but a lot of these wars that we have injected ourselves into, or wars that we started illegally. Most of these countries military capabilities are so small that it would have been overkill to attack them, and unfathomable that they would attack us. When did we become the police of the world? If there should be a police force for the world is should be the UN not the US.

[sabre666]

That's just another fallacy created by the warmongers that you have fallen into believing........Instead its not us its them right......so we invade here there and everywhere that was never a threat, decimate innocent populations into rack and ruin under the guise it was for there own good....Tell me how is that so????............Look at the bigger picture then get back to me.
The fact that there are still Jews in the world. Don't they have a right to exist?
The fact that we can be here arguing the point?
I'm not saying we're perfect but we are the best option going for now.

[GroobySteven]

Yeah. Oops.
That old German-Irish temper does run a little hot!

Look Seachai, let's just agree to disagree and stop the name-calling.
It ill-serves both of us.
Deal?

Here's the deal. Once you apologize for your last outburst and bringing my mother into it, as well as stating calling for Manning's execution is wrong, then you can stay.
You are entitled to an opinion, I don't have to give you the platform on which to preach it.
Otherwise ...

[GroobySteven]

The fact that there are still Jews in the world. Don't they have a right to exist?
The fact that we can be here arguing the point?
I'm not saying we're perfect but we are the best option going for now.


Who is "we" ?

[GroobySteven]

I myself have not served and probably will not serve in the military. I have respect for the people who serve but unlike other people I do not see them as heroes, unless they do things to prove they are. I have no respect for military members or veterans who just because they served or are serving they believe themselves above everyone else in the US. Also believe themselves above the rules of war when serving. You have the same rights and privileges as the rest of us citizens, be proud of your service don't throw it back in our faces whenever you fell like it to prove your point. I am tired of going anywhere and hearing how we should support our troops or when a soldier walks in to a room everyone whats to acknowledge their presence and service. Also showing up in their uniform at social events just to get better service, I have seen that more than 15 times this year alone. I am tired of getting into a debate with someone only to have them tell me I am wrong because they served in the military. As I said earlier in my post how many soldiers saw the civilian deaths and said nothing, those people are not heroes they are just soldiers doing their job and losing my respect day after day, atrocity after atrocity.


Absolutely - well said. Why do fire fighters not get the same level of respect (or seem to go looking for it?). I give respect where it is due to the person or their actions regardless of the badge they wear or the label they give themselves.

[sabre666]

Most of those criminals would not have been had they had decent opportunities..the problem could be solved but they are part of a want.....without them what is to fear, why have police, courts, justice etc lot of jobs gone a major control tool unravelled.

You should have added that most wars if not all are driven by greed. Greed by leaders and a system you seem to have so much respect for, and a system ideaology you seem to have really bought into, something Manning did not and more power to him for standing up for what was morally right........
Hmm, just have to agree to disagree. Not about everything you've said, but too much to go point for point.
Obviously we both feel very strongly about our respective positions.
I respect your right to yours.

[joeninety]

The fact that there are still Jews in the world. Don't they have a right to exist?
The fact that we can be here arguing the point?
I'm not saying we're perfect but we are the best option going for now.


Here do some reading, recognise the contradictions and tell me what's up with the picture.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/roots_of_US-Israel.html

http://rense.com/general40/bushfamilyfundedhitler.htm

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

[sabre666]

Here's the deal. Once you apologize for your last outburst and bringing my mother into it, as well as stating calling for Manning's execution is wrong, then you can stay.
You are entitled to an opinion, I don't have to give you the platform on which to preach it.
Otherwise ...
I will apologize for mentioning your mother. That was over the top.
But not for my opinion on Manning.
This forum did not specify that it was only for those who support his choice or him.
If you wanted it to be so, then perhaps a different thread title should have been used.
You do not agree with my opinion, you don't have to. Just as I do not agree with yours.
But we both should show respect for each others right to express them.
And for me to re-cant said position would be dishonest.

[joeninety]

Hmm, just have to agree to disagree. Not about everything you've said, but too much to go point for point.
Obviously we both feel very strongly about our respective positions.
I respect your right to yours.

And I am glad you are starting to wise up....keep an open mind and always question the supposed facts because most of the time they are not what they appear to be!!!

[sabre666]

And I am glad you are starting to wise up....keep an open mind and always question the supposed facts because most of the time they are not what they appear to be!!!
Wow, you just can't let something go without a snide/condescending comeback?
Tried to find neutral ground, but you've got to take a last jab after the bell.
SMH

[EvaCassini]

I get that one should always have their own opinion on things.

But...

Recanting said position does not make one "dishonest".

In the scientific community, if a scientist has had a theory deemed plausible, and has been in textbooks for years, and some new blood scientist comes in, does the same tests but with modern tech, and prove the prior scientist wrong, 9.99 times out of 10, that old scientist will recant and give thanks to the proper and correct theory in place.

That can be said with any other type of people. Just because you recant does not mean you are dishonest, you just didn't know and/or have the right ideas, beliefs, or tech to understand where the mistakes were made.

By the way...for a firing squad...War must me declared and in place. We are not at war.

We may be at war on weight, war on drugs, war on homelessness, war on poverty, war on hunger, war on debt....but those are just word plays that sound neato and the masses follow because of a common ideal. But as for "war" war, no, we are not at war with any particular sovereign nation.

Capital punishment is not the sentence for treason/heresy in peacetime.

[Ben]

Chelsea Manning support group:

http://www.bradleymanning.org/

[sabre666]

I get that one should always have their own opinion on things.

But...

Recanting said position does not make one "dishonest".

In the scientific community, if a scientist has had a theory deemed plausible, and has been in textbooks for years, and some new blood scientist comes in, does the same tests but with modern tech, and prove the prior scientist wrong, 9.99 times out of 10, that old scientist will recant and give thanks to the proper and correct theory in place.

That can be said with any other type of people. Just because you recant does not mean you are dishonest, you just didn't know and/or have the right ideas, beliefs, or tech to understand where the mistakes were made.

By the way...for a firing squad...War must me declared and in place. We are not at war.

We may be at war on weight, war on drugs, war on homelessness, war on poverty, war on hunger, war on debt....but those are just word plays that sound neato and the masses follow because of a common ideal. But as for "war" war, no, we are not at war with any particular sovereign nation.

Capital punishment is not the sentence for treason/heresy in peacetime.
Hmm, interesting position on capital punishment and war-time.
While technically accurate regarding another sovereign nation, we are "at war" with terrorism. And while I know it doesn't really work, being at war with an "ism", we are however, engaged in hostilities with radical Islamists.
Just because Obama said the "War on Terror" is over doesn't actually make it so.
A war doesn't end because one side says it does unless that other side is all dead.
And we all know the other side certainly is NOT dead.

Still, all in all, a good point.

And regarding my use of re-canting = dishonest, it was about my opinion. Had I said I changed my opinion (my use of recant) when I hadn't, that would have been dishonest on my part.

[sabre666]

Absolutely - well said. Why do fire fighters not get the same level of respect (or seem to go looking for it?). I give respect where it is due to the person or their actions regardless of the badge they wear or the label they give themselves.
Seanchai, you're a NY'er aren't you? You've seen the respect Firefighters get (justifiably so, I might add). You couldn't pay me to run into a burning building everyday, so I give them their due.
No one is saying you have to respect everyone in a uniform. There are always the bastards among us that will try to game the system to get something for nothing and the frauds who pretend to be what they aren't.
All I'm saying is acknowledge that they have done something you haven't, experienced something you haven't and have knowledge of things you don't.
The reverse is also true.
That's not an insult, it is simply what is.

[EvaCassini]

Hmm, interesting position on capital punishment and war-time.
While technically accurate regarding another sovereign nation, we are "at war" with terrorism. And while I know it doesn't really work, being at war with an "ism", we are however, engaged in hostilities with radical Islamists.
Just because Obama said the "War on Terror" is over doesn't actually make it so.
A war doesn't end because one side says it does unless that other side is all dead.
And we all know the other side certainly is NOT dead.

Still, all in all, a good point.

And regarding my use of re-canting = dishonest, it was about my opinion. Had I said I changed my opinion (my use of recant) when I hadn't, that would have been dishonest on my part.

The "War on Terror" is superfluous. Terrorism happens everyday since the dawn of human societal history. Stamping a name on it, calling it a war brings no merit at all. Just another way for people in high positions in this world to control their people and gain profit. Unless the terms of the Geneva Convention deem it so, we are NOT at war.

There's more out there than just that stereotypical "Radical Islamist". How about radical fundamentalism, radical Christianity, radical Catholicism, radical neo-nazis, radical "freedom fighters" in Africa, and many many others.
"Until the other side is dead"????? Really? Is that your take of these "ism wars"?
Just because they are radical, does not mean they have to die. And we call ourselves a "Democratic Society" LMMFAO. Whatever happened to peace talks, ambassadorial meets, diplomacy? Nope, they aren't dead yet, lets keep fighting, because that proves something. Lets wave our so called bigger pricks at the bad guys, so they die.

So your opinion, is absolute?



Seanchai, you're a NY'er aren't you? You've seen the respect Firefighters get (justifiably so, I might add). You couldn't pay me to run into a burning building everyday, so I give them their due.
No one is saying you have to respect everyone in a uniform. There are always the bastards among us that will try to game the system to get something for nothing and the frauds who pretend to be what they aren't.
All I'm saying is acknowledge that they have done something you haven't, experienced something you haven't and have knowledge of things you don't.
The reverse is also true.
That's not an insult, it is simply what is.


LMAO...this was quite funny.

[GroobySteven]

S
All I'm saying is acknowledge that they have done something you haven't, experienced something you haven't and have knowledge of things you don't.
The reverse is also true.
That's not an insult, it is simply what is.

Huh? No. I'm educated (or educate myself), I read and more importantly, I talk and listen to people, I don't need to have experienced working in a law firm, to know what people in a law firm do. Would you give someone who was a mechanic in the army ... or a security guard ... or a prison warden, respect, simply because they were doing what effectively could be a civilian job, yet military? I wouldn't.
If one CHOOSEs to take a military career (and it should be a choice) well that's great but one chose it for the pay, for the benefits and education or because that person felt it was a job they would get satisfaction from, so I'm not simply going to respect someone because they took a job with a uniform, the same as I wouldn't respect Paul Blart - Mall Cop.
If someone is out there putting their life in danger for our freedoms, or freedoms that I believe in, if someone is taking risks and suffering hardships to try and help others, then I have all the respect for them in uniform or not.

No, I'm not from NYC although have spent some time there.

[sabre666]

{"Until the other side is dead"????? Really? Is that your take of these "ism wars"?}
That's actually a take on all wars. Can you tell me of anytime that 1 side has ever been the one to say it's over without the other side agreeing ?
Except the French of course (they usually seem to surrender before it starts! LoL, JK).
I'm not talking about a cease-fire until a negotiated peace can be reached but an actual shooting war.
And the reason I said Radical Islam is that none of the others are engaged in a world-wide battle to enforce their will on the entire world through violence on a grand scale.
That being said, Radical anything is distasteful at best, evil at worst.

Now this is an enjoyable debate. LoL

[sabre666]

Huh? No. I'm educated (or educate myself), I read and more importantly, I talk and listen to people, I don't need to have experienced working in a law firm, to know what people in a law firm do. Would you give someone who was a mechanic in the army ... or a security guard ... or a prison warden, respect, simply because they were doing what effectively could be a civilian job, yet military? I wouldn't.
If one CHOOSEs to take a military career (and it should be a choice) well that's great but one chose it for the pay, for the benefits and education or because that person felt it was a job they would get satisfaction from, so I'm not simply going to respect someone because they took a job with a uniform, the same as I wouldn't respect Paul Blart - Mall Cop.
If someone is out there putting their life in danger for our freedoms, or freedoms that I believe in, if someone is taking risks and suffering hardships to try and help others, then I have all the respect for them in uniform or not.

No, I'm not from NYC although have spent some time there.
Valid points, and were it so simple, you would be correct.
The difference is that every member of the military is a rifleman first (essentially everyone starts out as infantry) and has to be able to engage in combat when necessary.
Some GI who spent his entire career in, say, Fort Hamilton, who has been a REMF (Rear Echelon Mother Fucker), still if the balloon goes up, has to man up, grab a weapon and move out.
Now, you're right, many do it simply for a paycheck.
However many, myself included did it for something bigger.
We didn't do it because we had nothing else to do (I had my college degree and a steady job when I enlisted (granted it was the Reserves) and there was no war on at the time, but if it had called, I would have gone to war).
We did it because someone HAS TO, and I decided that I could not ask someone to do that for me, if I was not willing to do it for them. Most of my brethren feel the same way. Joeninety said people are sheep and many are. But because of that we need Sheepdogs to keep the wolves at bay.
I do not begrudge those that never chose to. That was their choice and I'm glad they are free to make it so.

[GroobySteven]

Someone has too? Then you are a zealot - or you are a sheep?
You didn't have to do it - you chose to do it. It wasn't a benevolent or a charitable thing, you did it to make you feel good/get self-worth/take the best option.
That's all there is to it.

[sabre666]

BTW, I didn't mean to hi-jack your thread.
Sorry about that.

[GroobySteven]

BTW, I didn't mean to hi-jack your thread.
Sorry about that.

It wasn't my thread.

[sabre666]

Someone has too? Then you are a zealot - or you are a sheep?
You didn't have to do it - you chose to do it. It wasn't a benevolent or a charitable thing, you did it to make you feel good/get self-worth/take the best option.
That's all there is to it.
Wow, That's pretty cynical. Everyone in the military is either a zealot or a mercenary?

[EvaCassini]

{"Until the other side is dead"????? Really? Is that your take of these "ism wars"?}
That's actually a take on all wars. Can you tell me of anytime that 1 side has ever been the one to say it's over without the other side agreeing ?
Except the French of course (they usually seem to surrender before it starts! LoL, JK).
I'm not talking about a cease-fire until a negotiated peace can be reached but an actual shooting war.
And the reason I said Radical Islam is that none of the others are engaged in a world-wide battle to enforce their will on the entire world through violence on a grand scale.
That being said, Radical anything is distasteful at best, evil at worst.

Now this is an enjoyable debate. LoL


How about be the "bigger man/country/military" and turn the other cheek? Instead of going "Gung-ho" into a battle which puts an absolute strain on our country.

The United States, by far, has the largest technologically advanced military force in the world. Trust me, I have worked on this shit.

The reason "Baby Face Jong Un" hasn't done a damn thing and acted on his petty threats is because he knows!

The US Navy has the most advanced tech, offense and defense, opposed to North Korea, and among all other nations. We have complete "show of force" out there. I was stationed the USS Fitzgerald DDG 62 Aegis Destroyer. That ship was, and still is the "USS Enterprise" of the modern age. ( The Picard one ). I have been on so many missions on that ship and it is the best ship on the pond.

How about domestic shootings and murder? There are literally more deaths cause by shootings in this country then your little "War on Terrorism". Your little "War on Terror" was started by whom......hmmm who was that????

Oh yeah, George W. Bush. The man who shoved us into this bullshit and took away our freedoms. Also dumbing down our national education. He was, and still is the reason we got into this shit. Yes, 9/11 happened. Yes, we got retribution. But as a society, where are we now? Still throwing prick shaped missiles over at all the "Islamists". Trust me, I am not a fan of religious activities, but hell, they have their doctrine that tells them to go to war...AND turn the other cheek. Guess what...so do we ( as Americans ). It's called the bible.

I am not religious, but I know more than enough about religion that any book can be taken out of context and used as a sword. Any person who has a radical mindset can abuse this. America is not safe from doing this either.

We are not a civilization. You have to be civil first. We are a society. Simply a greedy, consuming, and violent society the world over.

[sabre666]

"That ship was, and still is the "USS Enterprise" of the modern age. ( The Picard one )."
Eww, really? Picard? Kirk was the shit! Not the new one either. He's a putz. But I will agree the 1701-Echo was an awesome ship!
LMAO

[joeninety]

Wow, you just can't let something go without a snide/condescending comeback?
Tried to find neutral ground, but you've got to take a last jab after the bell.
SMH


You idiot I wasn't having a dig I was actually being sincere :D

[joeninety]

{"Until the other side is dead"????? Really? Is that your take of these "ism wars"?}
That's actually a take on all wars. Can you tell me of anytime that 1 side has ever been the one to say it's over without the other side agreeing ?
Except the French of course (they usually seem to surrender before it starts! LoL, JK).
I'm not talking about a cease-fire until a negotiated peace can be reached but an actual shooting war.
And the reason I said Radical Islam is that none of the others are engaged in a world-wide battle to enforce their will on the entire world through violence on a grand scale.
That being said, Radical anything is distasteful at best, evil at worst.

Now this is an enjoyable debate. LoL

Plonker......sounds like you have been watching to much sky news.....remind who has the biggest war machine in the world and in order to justify and keep the budget and keep the war machine alive well it needs to be errr engaged in wars now is that radical Islam or someone else..........seriously wake the fuck up:iagree:

[joeninety]

How about be the "bigger man/country/military" and turn the other cheek? Instead of going "Gung-ho" into a battle which puts an absolute strain on our country.

The United States, by far, has the largest technologically advanced military force in the world. Trust me, I have worked on this shit.

The reason "Baby Face Jong Un" hasn't done a damn thing and acted on his petty threats is because he knows!

The US Navy has the most advanced tech, offense and defense, opposed to North Korea, and among all other nations. We have complete "show of force" out there. I was stationed the USS Fitzgerald DDG 62 Aegis Destroyer. That ship was, and still is the "USS Enterprise" of the modern age. ( The Picard one ). I have been on so many missions on that ship and it is the best ship on the pond.

How about domestic shootings and murder? There are literally more deaths cause by shootings in this country then your little "War on Terrorism". Your little "War on Terror" was started by whom......hmmm who was that????

Oh yeah, George W. Bush. The man who shoved us into this bullshit and took away our freedoms. Also dumbing down our national education. He was, and still is the reason we got into this shit. Yes, 9/11 happened. Yes, we got retribution. But as a society, where are we now? Still throwing prick shaped missiles over at all the "Islamists". Trust me, I am not a fan of religious activities, but hell, they have their doctrine that tells them to go to war...AND turn the other cheek. Guess what...so do we ( as Americans ). It's called the bible.

I am not religious, but I know more than enough about religion that any book can be taken out of context and used as a sword. Any person who has a radical mindset can abuse this. America is not safe from doing this either.

We are not a civilization. You have to be civil first. We are a society. Simply a greedy, consuming, and violent society the world over.

Noticed he had no reply to such a factual post;)

[EvaCassini]

Noticed he had no reply to such a factual post;)

I noticed lol.

Hence why I didn't reply ;)

[maddygirl]

I think Sabre works at Fox News. Sounds like it. Just regurgitating bullshit from the American media.

[Rockit_]

Man, he (she) really chose hard mode when starting up the game of life...

[sabre666]

1. No, I just got tired of arguing in a vacuum.
2. No, I don't work for FOX News.
3. Joe, you got a strange way of being sincere.
but why should I have expected otherwise from a Brit denier.
Your country is to blame for more misery in the world than America ever could be.
Africa, the Indian sub-continent, Northern Ireland and the Mid-East all can be laid at England's doorstep.
So don't for one minute think you get to be condescending to me.
Good night.

[EvaCassini]

Im American btw...who lives in Texas...and you think America hasn't made a shit-ton of fuck ups too? HAHAHAHA

wow...

[GroobySteven]

Wow, That's pretty cynical. Everyone in the military is either a zealot or a mercenary?

No - just you based on what you're stating.

[mishywishybuttfuck]

Is this even about tgirls anymore? Shut it down.

[Johnny.Blaze]

Is this even about tgirls anymore? Shut it down.

Hey Mr 8 posts of nothing but useless words. You don't like the discussions here, then be my guest and go beat off elsewhere. I'm certain you won't be missed or remembered :fu:

[mishywishybuttfuck]

I'm certain you won't be missed or remembered :fu:

you're probably right

[joeninety]

I noticed lol.

Hence why I didn't reply ;)

You are funny and clued up :kiss:

[joeninety]

1. No, I just got tired of arguing in a vacuum.
2. No, I don't work for FOX News.
3. Joe, you got a strange way of being sincere.
but why should I have expected otherwise from a Brit denier.
Your country is to blame for more misery in the world than America ever could be.
Africa, the Indian sub-continent, Northern Ireland and the Mid-East all can be laid at England's doorstep.
So don't for one minute think you get to be condescending to me.
Good night.

How am I a denier, 1st off until now you have never asked me about England's role in the old world imperialism:confused:

Secondly your post here just makes you look like a half wit because unlike you I would never try to deny the evil England has done to others, nor would I have even tried to support and justify such atrocities the way you do about America, funny how you can see England's past digressions but fail to notice Americas current ones, which tells me you are not totally stupid so you are obviously some agenda benda.........

England was the old order and now America is a big part of the new order, So take a good, long look in that mirror of yours, and remind me who the denier is, as your posts clearly expose you for what you are.......By the way have you got 2 accounts on here lol????

[nysprod]

England was the old order and now America is a big part of the new order




What new order is that?

[GroobySteven]

Is this even about tgirls anymore? Shut it down.

I'm about to kick you out just for being so poorly mannered on the first few days you're in. Wipe your fucking feet and stay, or get out before you're ejected.

[mishywishybuttfuck]

I'm about to kick you out just for being so poorly mannered on the first few days you're in. Wipe your fucking feet and stay, or get out before you're ejected.

i do not need this fucking level of bullshit.

[GroobySteven]

i do not need this fucking level of bullshit.

Guess not. Troll.

[EvaCassini]

Guess not. Troll.

This....^.....EPIC! :D

hehehe

[joeninety]

What new order is that?


Don't get me started it is way way to long winded spanning many generations.......Tell you what posted some links here in this thread go have a look at a few of the dots peace I'm out :pissed:

[DonnyG]

Wow....reading through this thread I literally became exhausted through all the barbs being thrown at one another. Having an opinion and intelligently discussing the matter is one thing but finding a resolution to the world's ills is tantamount to spinning your wheels and getting nowhere. Simply said until ALL human beings respect ALL life and tolerate others unconditionally we will continue to kill each other regardless of who or what the reason is.

I honestly do not believe there is an answer. We will formulate our opinions based on our experiences in life and what we have been exposed to. Some will serve others will not. But in my opinion the most honorable quest in life is saving others we never knew or know. That is the basis of true compassion. However, when one wants to dominate another for political or religious ideals death in some fashion will surely follow. And it doesn't have to be intentional either. Example: Simple economic differences allows others to get the best health care while the rest get what is given to them at the value which can be afforded.

From the ancient times to the present, we always had people who felt compelled to act on what they perceive as an injustice just to anger those of which they represent.

Life is a see-saw and eventually we all fall off. RIP!

[volkov2006]

Found this that give more information on Chelsea Mannings wish to transition:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/26/manning-lawyer-gender-change_n_3820164.html?utm_hp_ref=transgender

[Ben]

Fighting For Transgender Rights in the Military:

Fighting For Transgender Rights in the Military | Interview with Mara Kiesling - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSBMq35mM98)

[Ben]

Chelsea Manning's Lawyer: US Military is "Flat-Out" Transphobic:

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2014/05/14-1

[robertlouis]

Chelsea Manning's Lawyer: US Military is "Flat-Out" Transphobic:

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2014/05/14-1

No shit, sherlock. :dancing:

[Ben]

The Guardian Hires Chelsea Manning:

http://www.mediaite.com/online/the-guardian-hires-chelsea-manning/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

[jake999]

Free chelsea manning

[dreamon]

Free chelsea manning

It's funny how the only people in jail related to our current wars are the ones who told the truth about them. Well, maybe funny is the wrong word. Fucked up is probably better.

[jamesedwards]

What an awkward time to transition

word up, you're right, this shit is getting weird.

[jamesedwards]

WTF is transphobia? people using terms that sound so fucking stupid, people are not scared, they don't like or love the shit, this is crazy.

[BBaggins06]

Transphobia is very real and you are very stupid.

Just one example are dumbass radfems who FEAR that transgendered women want to get into their bathrooms to molest them and/or little girls.

[AshlynCreamher]

USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/02/16/trangender-troops-chelsea-manning/23504073/) EST February 16, 2015

Army considers easing policy on transgender soldiers

http://www.bagnewsnotes.com/image.php?image=http://www.bagnewsnotes.com/wp-content/files_flutter/1370498814BradleyManningguardedReuters.jpg&height=485 (http://www.bagnewsnotes.com/2013/06/the-big-deal-surrounding-bradley-manning/)
"Chelsea Manning, a transgender soldier convicted of divulging national security secrets to WikiLeaks."

The Army memo is the latest move toward changing the Pentagon's policy toward transgender troops. Last week, the Army, for the first time, agreed to allow hormone treatment for Chelsea Manning, a transgender soldier convicted of divulging national security secrets to WikiLeaks. Manning, previously known as Bradley, is serving a 35-year sentence at the Fort Leavenworth, Kan., military prison. In December, Air Force Secretary Deborah James said the ban on transgender troops should be lifted.
Full Article (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/02/16/trangender-troops-chelsea-manning/23504073/)