Would a drag Queen be considered a TS girl?

[gugaxamot]

Would a drag Queen be considered a TS girl? I have always been curious.

Guga

[MdR Dave]

No.

No.

[gugaxamot]

why not? I truly want to understand the nuances.

[saifan]

Drag queens are men who dress as women for entertainment purposes. There are a few exceptions I'm sure but they identify as men and live as such in their private lives.

[EvaCassini]

NO

TV/CD are not TS/TG.

Big difference. Just because you dress as a woman for entertainment, does not mean you are transitioning like a TS/TG for making the outside match the inside by means of hormones and surgeries.

[LadyTSFrancine]

Would a drag Queen be considered a TS girl? I have always been curious.

Guga

Yes, we can consider drag queens as TS Girl too...

some of My friends here in Phils are drag queens... they are totally living the same way as TGirl. It just came that they are looks like a gay men in their private lives.

[EvaCassini]

Do u not see the difference??? Drag Queens ( i.e. Crossdresser/ TransVESTITE ) play dress up and dance for cash! As a HOBBY/side job

TransSEXUAL/TransGENDER ( Tgirls ) girls like myself, transition our bodies for our mental well being and normality of being the person we feel we should be PHYSICALLY and MENTALLY.

[GroobySteven]

Yes, we can consider drag queens as TS Girl too...

some of My friends here in Phils are drag queens... they are totally living the same way as TGirl. It just came that they are looks like a gay men in their private lives.

That's incorrect Francine.
A gay man who dresses as a woman as a drag queen (generally a name for entertainment purposes) is not a transsexual in any such way, shape or form.

A TV or CD - a man who dresses as he enjoys dressing as a girl yet doesn't identify with being a female in life, is not a transsexual.

A "tgirl" - is a word that can encompass anyone falling into the "trans*" spectrum and this could be transvestite, transsexual or anything in-between.

A transsexual identifies as and generally lives as a female fulltime. They do not consider themselves as men dressing in woman's clothing.

A shemale, is purely a porn term and does not necessarily refer to any one, or all, of the above terms.

[jennylicious]

You've fallen into a label trap. Sylvia Rivera was a drag queen, but it wasn't her job. Fortunately, we lived in more enlightened times and transgender people don't have to identify with their sex in this way. If Sylvia was born 30 years later, she would never have used the term about herself. However, since she wasn't, she would have fought you if you had tried to take that name away from her. I think Sylvia earned the right to have her type of Drag Queen asserted here.


In terms of the UK and the US, a drag queen is someone who goes out and performs. That's a job. The thing is though, technically you have to impersonate the opposite sex, which makes this an unlikely career choice. So a transsexual girl in the early days of transition could indeed perform on stage as a man pretending to be a woman, but I can't help feel that is absolutely not what she would want to do.

More importantly, as Francine put it, in her country they would consider a drag performer as a TS girl. That's the real danger of labels.

However, if you are asking if the people on Ru Paul's drag race are considered TS. Not in the way we use the term in the US or the UK. It's a job. While they may or may not be, it's unlikely, and the job itself does not have any direct, or indirect, association with their gender.

[LadyTSFrancine]

Thanks for giving much more ideas about those Drag queens.. :)

appreciate it... if I do got a wrong perceptions with them.,!

[EvaCassini]

You've fallen into a label trap. Sylvia Rivera was a drag queen, but it wasn't her job. Fortunately, we lived in more enlightened times and transgender people don't have to identify with their sex in this way. If Sylvia was born 30 years later, she would never have used the term about herself. However, since she wasn't, she would have fought you if you had tried to take that name away from her. I think Sylvia earned the right to have her type of Drag Queen asserted here.


In terms of the UK and the US, a drag queen is someone who goes out and performs. That's a job. The thing is though, technically you have to impersonate the opposite sex, which makes this an unlikely career choice. So a transsexual girl in the early days of transition could indeed perform on stage as a man pretending to be a woman, but I can't help feel that is absolutely not what she would want to do.

More importantly, as Francine put it, in her country they would consider a drag performer as a TS girl. That's the real danger of labels.

However, if you are asking if the people on Ru Paul's drag race are considered TS. Not in the way we use the term in the US or the UK. It's a job. While they may or may not be, it's unlikely, and the job itself does not have any direct, or indirect, association with their gender.


There's no label trap. The fact is, is YES Sylvia was a great woman and so was her right hand/friend Marsha P. Johnson. BUT back in those days the only thing ( job ) they could do, w/o much persecution, was Drag Queen.

Lets keep this discussion in the present. The terms we use today are quite distinguishable and used correctly and accordingly.

Today...a drag queen does not transition their body, they only do it for the kicks and the cash.

Today, a Transgender/Transsexual does not have to fall into "drag queening". Today, being TG/TS is a lot more acceptable and we can do most jobs/careers we really would like to do and still transition.

Out of all the jobs/careers I have held so far in my life...the only one I couldn't do and transition at the same time, was the Navy...And I understand why it is very difficult to incorporate TS/TG into military life with others.

[jennylicious]

Eva, It wasn't a job for Sylvia. It was a community. Someone who dressed to identify with their gender was referred to as a Drag Queen. When she was a rights campaigner, she still actively referred to herself as a Drag Queen. It's important to clarify that the term to someone that doesn't understand that the term has been used differently, and this might be the root of his misunderstanding. Drag queens weren't just a job, they were a community. A community that stood together, and deserve to be recognised. That said, I did, however, made it very clear that this is not how the terms is used today.

You are right, it's not really a label trap. The reason I said as much was Francine came forward and said that in the Philippines her friends would be referred to as TS. Now if this is generally accepted, it's culturally insensitive to suggest that the term is only ever applied in the context that you and I would use it. As we're clearly understanding it more and more, but I think that until we have a full scientific understanding, I should at least respect the ways a different culture has interpreted it. Speaking from experience, the scientific thinking and understanding of one of my conditions has changed radically, for example, in the last 5 years. What I understood my whole life was turned on its head and a term I would have clearly identified with, is a term I wholly reject today. Basically, terms change and they are often applied differently. That is what I meant when I said it was a label trap. As I said, you're right, it's not _really_ a label trap he has fallen into. (He hasn't to my knowledge applied the terms incorrectly)

We agree exactly on the answer we're giving him. I'm just trying to put it into more information for the OP so when he comes across these terms used in a different context, he will understand that they have changed. He won't either revert back to his previous thinking, or thinking Sylvia was fighting the police in a rhinestone showgirl outfit with peacock feathers...

Or to try and clarify it, in case I wasn't completely clear.

To the OP:

Drag Queen is a term that would have been used for transgender people in the 70s. It's a term applied in ignorance, much like many other terms used to describe people of religion/race/colour. Because it amounted to a community in itself, the term is still applied sometimes when talking about the past, but the term (like many others employed in ignorance) would be massively offensive if used today.

[FreddieGomez]

i don't consider anyone who does drag shows a ts.

[Ms.Stepford]

Some drag queens are actually TS and do end up actually transitioning. I've personally seen it happen three times.

Also, TS and TG are not interchangeable terms. In fact, TS, CD, and TV are all TG. That's why it's the transgender umbrella.

[Ecstatic]

Also, TS and TG are not interchangeable terms. In fact, TS, CD, and TV are all TG. That's why it's the transgender umbrella.

I was about to make the same point, Ms. Stepford. TG (which can stand for either Tgirl or Transgender) is indeed the umbrella term, and can also includes genderfuck and other classifications. It all depends on context, culture, and intent. In many parts of the world, transvestite (or travesti) is preferred over pre-op transsexual for the same meaning. So first consider a person's culture, then the context in which the behavior exists, and finally the intent of the person performing the behavior.


Yes, we can consider drag queens as TS Girl too...

some of My friends here in Phils are drag queens... they are totally living the same way as TGirl. It just came that they are looks like a gay men in their private lives.

This is a good example of the cultural differences. Traditionally in the Philippines, all TG/TS are either bakla (Tagalog) or bayot (Cebanu), both of which translate to "gay" in English. Peruse escort ads from the region, and you'll find most TS escorts identifying their gender as male, despite having breast implants, feminization, and living 24-7 as women. (This is gradually changing.) Since there is no native Tagalog or Cebanu word for "the third sex", Filipina TS have adopted the English translation of the Thai kathoey, ladyboy, to describe themselves. More recently, and in more political arenas (see STRAP, Society of Transsexual Women of the Philippines), the term Transpinay has gained ground.

Also to the point, many transpinay identify and live as women but with little or no body modification other than long hair and makeup. As such, to Westerners they may appear as fembois or effeminate gay men.

[TSMichelleAustin]

Ok let me correct all of u! There are drag queens who are trans and some who are boys doing it for entertainment!!!

Erica Andrews, Mimi Marks, Monica Munro, Tommi Ross, and so many trans women that are drag stars! The art of drag has evolved over the years. Back in Stonewall days you were called a DQ if you were trans or not, there was no transsexual phrase. Just some food for thought!

Under Transgendered umbrella is: TV, TS, CD, and drag queens.

[jennylicious]

In many parts of the world, transvestite (or travesti) is preferred over pre-op transsexual for the same meaning. So first consider a person's culture, then the context in which the behavior exists, and finally the intent of the person performing the behaviour.


Very informative, and that was the point I was trying to make about use of TS as a label. Francine's use made me believe they may apply the term in a more general way. Just because the word is applied differently, doesn't make what we're actually talking about different. Mice means 'corn' in many different languages, it is just a collection of letters used to describe something.

Yes, there have been Drag Queens that have been TS. Candis Cane being the most famous I can think of. Eva made a very good point though, with the increased acceptance, it is less likely that transgender people will consider it for employment. Not unless they really want to do it for themselves, anyway.

I think we have covered this subject from every angle. I don't think any of us are in disagreement. (Even if there are some semantic issues which wouldn't be cleared up in 5 seconds if we were all in the same room)

[fivekatz]

Yes and no. As is the case with most labels for people the label drag queen is inadequate to determine if the person in their heart is a woman trapped in a man's body or a man who gets a kick out of dressing up in women's clothes. I am not an expert but while not all TVs will physically transition doesn't it make sense that one has to be TV before being TS.

It is like the whole idea of passable. Is passing in the eye of the beholder or in the heart the person "passing"? It isn't the boobs IMHO that makes a woman...though they do distract from the fact that a particular woman may have a penis.

[natina]

Glossary of transgender terms

Contents:

The politics of definitions
Recommended resources
List of acronyms and slang
The problem of quotation marks
The politics of definitions

http://www.tsroadmap.com/start/tgterms.html

Transgender - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender)


Transgender - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender)

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/gendersexuality/g/transgender.htm

Definition: A transgender person is someone whose personal idea of gender does not correlate with his or her assigned gender role.

It does not exclusively refer to transsexual persons, i.e. those who are transitioning or have transitioned from one gender to another; all transsexual persons are transgender, but not all transgender persons are transsexual. A transgender person is anyone who fully accepts a gender identity--androgynous, hermaphroditic, intersex, transsexual, third gender, bigender, or otherwise gender non-conformist--does not match his or her assigned gender.
Common Misspellings: transgendered

Definition: A transsexual person is someone who identifies as a member of the sex opposite to his or her assigned sex. There are essentially two types of transsexual persons: male-to-female (MTF), and female-to-male (FTM).

Transsexual persons are considered transgender, but not all transgender persons are considered transsexual, as transgender persons might also identify as androgynous, bigender, intersex, or something other than the gender opposite to his or her assigned gender.


http://transequality.org/Resources/NCTE_TransTerminology.pdf

[EvaCassini]

Boob don't make the woman...any man can get a tit job.

What makes a transsexual different from transvestite ( cd ) is that we go through transition via "medical/surgical" interventions.

This isn't a case of passing, it's the difference between someone who puts on a bra for kicks/kinks/stage money and someone who puts on a bra because they feel this article of clothing feels right and that it does support the breasts after boob job. Nothing sexual or anything that gives a girl a hard on once she puts on the female clothing article. Just a sense of normality and comfort.

Some TS's do drag shows...BUT because the whole "drag show" is just a foolery of men that dressed in womens clothes, dance, screech out, and reach for tips, and it puts a whole different outlook on TS ( transition ) girls.

I don't care for drag shows, not fun, and most "dragsters" are annoying. But I went to one recently because a friend/colleague invited everyone under my roof to go to show her support...

Sooo, we get there and I'm already uncomfortable because I don't care for clubs I'm not used to. She then proceeds to go on stage and give a shout out to the crowd for "us" tgirls there...Me, Jamie, and 2 others i wont mention.

The crowd glared at us as if they thought we were going to get up on stage too and that we were just "men in drag". ( not knowing that we all have been on hormones for years and some of us have surgeries. ) 99.99% of the crowd were gay men...not in the slightest bit interested/attracted to trannys. It felt very uncomfortable and I don't plan to go again to any drag show.

[natina]

I KNOW OF MANY drag queens that dress as a gay man when not on the stroll in Hollywood but they have breast and there lips/hip/butt and cheeks pumped up with silicone.

they are TRANNY CHASER CHASERS


http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=1306787&highlight=TRANNY+CHASER+CHASERS#post1306787


http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=1307749&highlight=TRANNY+CHASER+CHASERS#post1307749


http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=1277103&highlight=TRANNY+CHASER+CHASERS#post1277103

[TSMichelleAustin]

Sorry u feel that way Eva but if I never went to a drag show when I was 18 and seen Erica Andrews no clue where I would be today! Ur a lot younger and seems u dont understand drag! If it wasn't for drag queens u wouldn't have the rights u have today! Maybe u need to brush up on ur history! U just insulted so many peep with ur comments!

[fivekatz]

Boob don't make the woman...any man can get a tit job.

What makes a transsexual different from transvestite ( cd ) is that we go through transition via "medical/surgical" interventions.

This isn't a case of passing, it's the difference between someone who puts on a bra for kicks/kinks/stage money and someone who puts on a bra because they feel this article of clothing feels right and that it does support the breasts after boob job. Nothing sexual or anything that gives a girl a hard on once she puts on the female clothing article. Just a sense of normality and comfort.

Some TS's do drag shows...BUT because the whole "drag show" is just a foolery of men that dressed in womens clothes, dance, screech out, and reach for tips, and it puts a whole different outlook on TS ( transition ) girls.

I don't care for drag shows, not fun, and most "dragsters" are annoying. But I went to one recently because a friend/colleague invited everyone under my roof to go to show her support...

Sooo, we get there and I'm already uncomfortable because I don't care for clubs I'm not used to. She then proceeds to go on stage and give a shout out to the crowd for "us" tgirls there...Me, Jamie, and 2 others i wont mention.

The crowd glared at us as if they thought we were going to get up on stage too and that we were just "men in drag". ( not knowing that we all have been on hormones for years and some of us have surgeries. ) 99.99% of the crowd were gay men...not in the slightest bit interested/attracted to trannys. It felt very uncomfortable and I don't plan to go again to any drag show.I certainly understand where you are coming from better from this last post.

I am kind of naive in as far as I thought that drag queen shows were really a thing of the past and that those men were repressed by convention in the 20th Century. I hadn't thought of it as you position it.

Still aren't a lot of people in transition "in drag" until they can afford hormones and or surgery? Isn't the real difference in the heart. Some men know they are gay while others know in their hearts they aren't men at all?

Just asking.

[TSMichelleAustin]

Watch Stonewall might help u learn the things people fought for u to be a woman today!!! U could of been arrested with how u live now! Drag queens fought u and our fight so we can live this way today!!!!

[elizabethts23]

I respectfully disagree, Eva. CD is a wide open blanket term that encompasses any that wear the clothes of the opposite gender, be it a male in female clothing for any reason or a female wearing a man's shirt. It implies no greater intent or philosophical meanings. Transvestite on the other hand implies a sexual intent for the crossdressing,either sexual gratification from the clothing itself or for using it to attract the same sex (I.E. Dr. Frankenfurter from Rocky Horror was a transvestite, to use a well known and over the top stereotype). Transsexual is anyone that takes steps to embrace their displaced gender identity, not necessarily going so far as body modification through hormone therapy or surgery but can include these methods. Many people identify as transsexual without ever physically changing their body, with a myriad of reasons why (cost, community, family, job, etc). Some, like myself, don't feel that a simple cosmetic change to the genitalia has any real bearing on what makes one male or female, as the organ responsible for this is the one between our ears, not our legs. Transgender is another umbrella term that encompasses any and all of the various subgroups, as already identified below. A person can therefore be several of the various labels concurrently, for example a crossdresser (in the literal since of being in the opposite gender's clothing), a transvestite (they are crossdressing or making themselves more desirable to the same genetic gender through hormone or surgical means for sexual reasons), transsexual (they are crossdressing or making themselves more desirable to the same genetic gender through hormone or surgical means for psychological reasons), and overall identify as being transgendered.
Bear in mind that overall these labels are WIDELY based on opinion, and there is no true concensus within the community as to their proper usages. Therefore, the probable best approach is to swallow one's own interpretation and merely identify another by the label that they feel applies to them.

What did you do in the Navy Eva? I was a bubblehead on boomers, Nav ET. ^_^

[natina]

stonewall uprising


illegal to Masquerade
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=55984


http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=1007503


crime against nature:oral sex/sodomy/anal sex even if its your wife
In New Orleans, a first-time conviction of prostitution is charged as a misdemeanor. It can also, however, be charged as a first-time felony with a person facing up to a possible 5 years in prison and the requirement to register as a sex offender. The offense will be carried out as the latter only if it is classified as a “crime against nature.”

A crime against nature is one that involves unnatural copulation, or oral and anal sex. Vaginal sex is not a part of this because it is not seen as unnatural. So, it can be assumed that breaking this law can be seen as largely targeting the gay and transgendered populations. How can a law that was adopted in 1805 and that so clearly promotes bigotry still be in place? Thankfully, on February 16, a file was made to challenge this bullshit.


http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=71311




Remembering the 'Stonewall Uprising'



Remembering the 'Stonewall Uprising'
http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/20100625_Remembering_the__Stonewall_Uprising_.html (http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/20100625_Remembering_the__Stonewall_Uprising_.html )
By Carrie Rickey
Jun. 25, 2010
It was a time of free love - if you were heterosexual. During the
1960s, Stonewall, a dingy bar in New York's West Village, was about
the only place in Manhattan where gays and lesbians could dance in public.
It was also a time when homosexuality was regarded as a mental
illness. Same-sex intercourse was illegal in 49 of the 50 states.
"Masquerade," a 19th-century statute against dressing in the clothes
of the opposite sex, was likewise punishable by law.In order to rid the city of the scourge of long-haired men and
short-haired women, police routinely raided gay bars where they would
club and arrest patrons. But typically, before officers paid a call
on (the mob-run) Stonewall, they alerted the owners, who alerted
their customers. But on the night of June 28, 1969, the vice squad
didn't call in advance. And when they came waving nightsticks, the
dancers and drag queens fought back.



http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=59838




HOMOPHOBIC GAYS and the difference between a TS & a CD/TV/DQ
most people say that A TS/TG is just a man with boobs or a man with silicone pumped in there butt,cheeks ,hips,breast,chest,chin.

many here or HOMOPHOBIC ,HOMOSEXUALS.

most people say that A TS/TG is just a feminine man or a male that wants to be a girl.


many do not draw a distinct line between a TS or a TG or a CD or a TV or a DRAG QUEEN.

as far as many people or concerned all ts,tg,tv,cd,tv,dq are men

as far as many people or concerned all ts,tg,tv,cd,tv,dq are men in disguise.


there is a law on the books forbidden you to masquerade

http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=80102 (http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=80102)


http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=59838



First Run Features presents STONEWALL UPRISING, opening its regular theatrical engagements starting Friday, July 9, 2010 at Landmark’s Lumiere Theatre (http://maps.google.com/maps/place?client=safari&rls=en&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=Lumiere+Theater,+San+Francisco&fb=1&gl=us&hq=Lumiere+Theater,&hnear=San+Francisco,+CA&cid=15876023531982821605) in San Francisco, and Landmark’s Shattuck Cinemas (http://maps.google.com/maps/place?client=safari&rls=en&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=Shattuck+Cinemas,+Berkeley,&fb=1&gl=us&hq=Shattuck+Cinemas,&hnear=Berkeley,+CA&cid=4908582216974332018) in Berkeley. The film was also screened last month as part of the Frameline34, 2010 San Francisco International LGBT Film Festival. STONEWALL UPRISING recounts the dramatic event that launched a movement whose impact has deeply affected the course of the human rights struggle. Told by those who took part—from drag queens and street hustlers to police detectives, journalists, and a former mayor of New York—and featuring a rich trove of archival footage, the film revisits a time when homosexual acts were illegal throughout America, and homosexuality itself was seen as a form of mental illness. Hunted and often entrapped by undercover police in their hometowns, gays from around the U.S. began fleeing to New York in search of a sanctuary. Hounded there still by an aggressive police force, they found a semblance of normalcy in a Mafia-run gay bar in Greenwich Village, the Stonewall Inn. When police raided Stonewall on June 28, 1969, gay men and women did something they hadn’t done before: they fought back. As the streets of New York erupted into violent protests and street demonstrations, the collective anger announced that the gay rights movement had arrived.

HOMOPHOBIC ,HOMOSEXUALS STONE WALL
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?p=1007503

Ts who retire to poverty,obscurity or......
http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=53546

Attention divas, daggers, dykes, sissies and studs: sashay shante, y’all. According to Oakland's Code of Ordinances (http://library.municode.com/html/16308/Book.html), your style is illegal.

Immoral Dress Code 9.08.080 has been in place since 1879: “It is unlawful for any person in the city to appear in any public place nude or in the attire of a person of the opposite sex, or in any indecent or lewd attire.”
In terms of concentration of same sex couples, Oakland is ranked among the top five major metropolitan areas in the nation. Certainly our city is as socially conscious as it is diverse. Yet shockingly, in 2010, cross-dressing remains an offense “against public peace and decency.”
I first learned of this wacky time warp while attending an Oakland LGBT Roundtable (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Oakland-LGBT-Roundtable/121063566660) meeting. Stephanie McLeod, pictured above,an intern with City Council Member Rebecca Kaplan’s (http://www.rkaplan.org/) office, created a slide show presentation which contextualized the ordinance.
The civil war ended and the 15th amendment was ratified. Population explosions accompanied the gold rush and the transcontinental railroad; the latter saw Oakland grow from 1,500 people in 1860 to more than 36,000 in 1880. As the railroad’s western terminus, Oakland experienced a rush of new businesses, new manufacturing industries and new jobs. Migrants from the south, and immigrants from China and Southern Europe, changed the demographics of the area.
“People who were not perceived to be part of the social ‘norm’ were marginalized and criminalized,” said McLeod. “Everyone is affected by this, not just queer people. If this law was enforced today, all the women on the police and fire departments could be charged with a misdemeanor for cross-dressing.”
Though I have been out of the closet for 18 years, I admit sometimes I avoid learning about atrocities of the past; I'm already overwhelmed and frustrated by present day inequality. But after McLeod's presentation, I got curious.
San Francisco preceded Oakland with a similar law in 1866. By 1930, most cities in California had dress code laws. From the mid-19th century, the state enacted all kinds of legislation against LGBT behavior; convictions led to forced sterilization, castration, indefinite hospitalization and life imprisonment. The law lumped child molesters and homosexuals together as “perverts.” Women suffragists wore pants in protest. German theorist Karoly Maria Kertbeny disputed the criminalization of “homosexuality” (a term he coined). Racist medical texts linked the idea of "degenerate" races with "degenerate" sexualities.
In the wake of immigration legislation in Arizona, legislation that enables racial profiling, can we afford to leave vague laws on the books, laws that are subject to the interpretation of the times? Political climates change. In 1850, the state of California outlawed “crimes against nature.” Before 1900, this mainly applied to public sex, rape, and sex with a minor. But the early 20th century experienced a heightened anxiety over visible gender difference in urban communities, and homosexuals were increasingly arrested for “crimes against nature.”
As McLeod emphasized, “It could happen again.”
Shush! What’s that sound? Is it the bang of 1,000 fairies fainting in disbelief, falling to the floor? Nope. It’s the vogue boom of butch-queens dropping into suicide dips, their backs clapping the ground. An elegant tranny lip syncs Mary J. “You can’t keep a good woman down!”

http://oaklandlocal.com/article/cross-dressing-illegal-oakland-1879




Watch Stonewall might help u learn the things people fought for u to be a woman today!!! U could of been arrested with how u live now! Drag queens fought u and our fight so we can live this way today!!!!

[WendyWilliams]

Eva NOONE looked at you that way, everyone looked because I said there was a table of pornstars. TRUST ME Transsexual women are in the show and in the audience all the time. Sorry you was uncomfortable but I got my start in the drag clubs and over the years I have continued to be part of them and enjoy it when I need that break from porn.

However your observation was FALSE, you were NOT looked at like that. Everyone looked over clapped for you ladies and then back to me MC'ing the show.

[elizabethts23]

This is NOT meant as any kind of insult, but to rebuke your last post Eva, porn IS simply another form of performing/entertainment. A hobby/side job, if you will.

Drag queens can be transsexual. They can be transvestites. They can be transsexuals. One does not necessarily preclude the other. You're trying to apply ONE narrow label to a multifaceted whole.

[EvaCassini]

Michelle - I know the history and like I said, the only way back in the past for a transsexual to be their own person for the most part was by doing drag shows or dressing up in private or going to different countries. I am 24 and just because of my age, doesn't mean I am naive to history or any other topic. Jamie is 33 and she dates me, because I don't act immature as a typical 24 yr old would. Unlike her recent ex, of whom is older than I, at 26. My recent ex is that same person and I cut it 1 wk in because I could see the drama, immaturity, and lack of respect leaking through her grimace. Keep in mind that I am keeping this conversation in the present. Presently, drag queens are primarily a different type of people now. The majority of them are televised like in Ru Pauls deal. And I know quite a few TS/TG who do drag shows. I don't condone, but they don't have to do it nowadays.

Elizabeth - you should understand that there is a big difference between sex and gender. I don't condone crossdressers. Anyone can do it, hell, all of us "were" considered CD till we understood that clothes weren't magical and couldn't help us transition. Just because I am becoming a woman, doesn't mean I want to make myself attractive for men. I prefer TG and GG...unless the man is Robert Downy Jr.
I work in porn...as one who has been through years of hormones and one surgery ( tits ).
Drag shows and porn are two different entities. Albeit both in "showbiz", but still very different.

Wendy - My observation isn't false lol I know what I saw ( awkward stares ) and heard ( 2 or 3 guys clapping ). It was my first time watching a drag show, and didn't know what to expect. I felt fine with Jamie there ( someone I know personally ), but with Tiff/Audrina there, it was very awkward. Tiff said she doesn't like drag shows, but she went there for you. I went there for you. I was excited to meet you, and to me, that was the best part of it, was meeting you, and hanging out with my love Jamie. It's nice to get out of the house, but Jamie and I prefer to go to The Church. Drinks are cheaper there too lol.

P.S. I was a Gunners Mate station on the USS Fitzgerald DDG 62 in Japan...saw all of Asia. :)

[GroobySteven]

i don't consider anyone who does drag shows a ts.

I don't think you consider much - I just wish you'd consider thinking before posting. Some transsexuals do, do drag shows.

[gugaxamot]

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies. This quote struck as I have never heard of these types of people:
TRANNY CHASER CHASERS

I assume that this person would be a gay man who gets breast implants to attract men who like ts girls?

[my my my!]

Drag Queen is an entertainment term, not a gender description.

there are transsexuals that perform at Drag Queen shows. But essentially they're just themselves (a ts) lip synching and dancing. Transsexual= woman

there are men that perform at Drag Queen shows. They dress as female to give the illusion of being female. But go home and Identify and live as a man. There are some men that will get silicone injections and breast implants and other cosmetic enhancements. But this does not make them transsexual. man=/= transsexual

In reality, if you go by a person's gender identification. A transsexual who performs at Drag Shows is really a Faux Queen.
Faux queen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faux_queen)

A Female, pretending to be a male , pretending to be a female.

[alyssaluxor]

A drag queen can be or not be a transsexual ;)

transsexuality is a gender identity
drag queen is now usually a term to use for someone who likes to put good make up and hair and clothes to impersonate someone on stage for entertainment purposes

Im a transsexual, so if I do a drag show im still a transsexual

[girl]

Transsexual woman/girl is FEMALE person born with severe physical birth defect. Think about this for a moment. It isn’t funny at all, or sexy, or anything... It is also not something someone could choose, or do for fun, or just decide one day. Transsexual woman means just one thing: a woman, who has had a sex change, and by this I mean sexual reassignment surgery, changing her genetalia and body to match her brain, her soul; to match how she feels inside. There are transsexual girls, like myself, with male genetalia, and are best described as pre-op transsexuals, (more appropriate word for transsexual woman is trans woman!) and plan to have SRS at some point in our lives. I do not consider non-op transsexuals as true transsexuals/trans women, but rather under wider transgender umbrella term (not that there's anything wrong with that!).

That’s it! :)

[FreddieGomez]

I don't think you consider much - I just wish you'd consider thinking before posting. Some transsexuals do, do drag shows.

i don't kick it with ts who do the gay clubs so i wouldn't know,.
I have nothing against gays. just isn't my preference.
I have a large gay following but they know not to cross that line.

cant we just agree to be civil during this time of grievance?

[Tiffany Starr]

Do u not see the difference??? Drag Queens ( i.e. Crossdresser/ TransVESTITE ) play dress up and dance for cash! As a HOBBY/side job

TransSEXUAL/TransGENDER ( Tgirls ) girls like myself, transition our bodies for our mental well being and normality of being the person we feel we should be PHYSICALLY and MENTALLY.

I wouldn't consider your emotional outbursts and physically attacking people to be "Mature" nor would I agree to you bringing me and Audrina up in a post about something that has nothing to do with either of us.

Point is stop talking about me and Audrina. Neither of us care about what you two do so stop bringing us up all the time like a sore loser. We are just trying to be civil, move out and then everything will be fine for all of us.

Oh and before you throw stones check your license and tell me what it says.

That's all I have to say about that. While i'm posting though I may as well throw in my two cents. I feel if your a male who dresses up as a female to entertain and earn money then you are not a Transsexual but a guy doing a job. However if you are a Transsexual and go through the ropes and still do drag shows they you are in fact a Transsexual, just doing a job.

Because being a drag queen is a job, plain and simple. So asking if a Drag Queen is the same as being a TS almost makes zero sense to me. I feel the question should be is the person who is performing in a Drag show a Transsexual, which the answer would be depends :-D

[fivekatz]

Labels almost always fail to be definitive. IMHO a transexual is a person who has determined the gender they were born to feels wrong, is wrong and is making the journey to transform their gender. There are many stages to that process from what I can understand but once the realization had been met, hormones, plastic surgery and SRS are all stages to express the realization.

But don't you think the defining point is the realization? And whatever point a person is at in the physical transformation, once they begin to live their lives and feel in their heart they have transformed to the gender they were meant to be born to that they are trans, be it male to female or female to male?

Personally I find it odd to question ones identity by the surgically transformation status.