Want to understand -why do all this if SRS is not your final goal?

[postopadmirer]

To all pre-op & non-op ladies,Simple question.
Why do you become more lady like if your long term goal is not to have SRS surgery? I'm not questioning the validity of the reason, I want to understand a side of the transgender community I don't know much about.


I'm not making any value judgments on your reasoning and would ask that others respect your answers. I just really want to understand.


Thanks in advance.
POA

[postopadmirer]

P.s I have a bias towards postoperative women but I have a respect for all of you and what it takes to be you.

[rodinuk]

Perhaps the individual doesn't want to undertake surgery in general as it is always a risk to health and srs can require multiple surgeries.

the expense involved in said surgery(ies).

they have a level of contentment with themselves in terms of their gender identity that doesn't require that particular physical alteration

[caliuncut]

I've always figured that srs surgery is extremely invasive, painful and probably has a long and difficult recovery. Additionally you never know how things will turn out and this is your sex organ we're talking about here...I mean what if something goes wrong, what if things don't "work" or "feel" the way you expected, it's a dive into the unknown to say the least. So, taking that into consideration I'm sure a good number of girls decide stay with what they know and that maybe the grass isn't greener?

Keep in mind this is just what comes to mind from my conversations with a few girls on the topic...beside, what the hell do I know?

I hate the terms pre op and post op for some reason....it just sounds bad. But should I declare my preference for pre op girls, more than a preference really...post op girls don't appeal to me in the slightest.

[Rabbiteyes]

"Transition" is so much more than what is in your pants... actually, it isn't even something I think about (or thought about before transitioning). I don't hate my parts... I don't really use them, or think about them ~shrug~

First off, hormones are amazing. The list of effects they have on a person is pretty long. Softer skin, less muscle, more emotions, complete shift in climax, looking younger and "prettier", even just generally how you feel (less aggression, more peaceful). For me, they just fit my life so perfectly (I saw all of the effects as bonuses...from aesthetics, to the real differences in how I experience the world).

Second, there are a slew of social changes when people see you as female. As I started to look more and more female, the world slowly shifted in how it interacted with me. Suddenly men were holding open doors, I would be greeted more friendly when I went into a store, women would become much closer to me (instead of being afraid of me or thinking I wanted sex when I said hello), people expected less physical action from me (this is a pretty neutral aspect though, I was pretty strong before and didn't mind showing off).

Basically, the world became nicer to me. I stopped being a "threat" to everyone as a strong young man (and, actually, hormones did a few mental shifts there too, I stopped being so competitive... I didn't NEED to always win).

Sure, there are down sides too. Lots of confusion... some bigots... and plenty of people who just don't "get it".

Sex? Dating? Expensive and traumatic surgery so I could add another hole for a guy? None of that was the reason I wanted to start transition.

It was simply a step forward as I shifted my body and mind towards something more feminine. I don't see femininity as a negative, I see it as beautiful and something worth enhancing.

Sure, transitioning has some down sides (especially social, such as dating...or even just the strength issue, being so tired from carrying up groceries definitely gets old fast). But, overall, it has been positive.

Pre-op...post-op.... it just doesn't really have much to do with transition (IMO)... or if it does, it is such a tiny tiny tiny aspect that basically comes down to issues like wearing bikini or adding a new way to make love to your partner.

[BrendaTG]

I am non-op....wanting to be and live and look like a woman has always been far more important to me then having a vagina. I was born as a girl in the body of a boy. It is a very complicated physical and psychological /emotional situation.

I would love to have a vagina but srs is not the same as having a real vagina for me.
Also I have fear of surgery of any kind.

It does bother me a lot...but the thing about being a TS that bothers me the most will not be solved with srs.

I was different because of the situation I was born in...and I will remain different for the rest of my life...and I will always be treated differently by most men because I am a TS. SRS does not solve this...instead it might even complicate it.

Just the fact that I would have a vagina surgically made...does not cure my transsexualism.

Being a woman in a male body means coping with that for the rest of your life (sadly).

Its less about being a woman because you will never really be able to in all aspects of life.

Reducing such a problem to just the surgery is insulting to me.

Also one of the biggest problems of being a TS is other Tgirls who do not resemble me. The majority is very different from me.

So it is inevitable that I will remain misunderstood by most people for the rest of my life.

I am convinced that the majority of Tgirls are men and not woman.

[amberskyi]

Ughhh...this is going to turn into another save the dick from "mutilation" thread.
I hope for it one day possibly and if a man doesn't like it than he never appreciated me as a woman.he clearly cared more for my cock

[DreadedFlower]

Getting my surgery in 3 weeks (god, about freaking time!)

Most TS I know actually want surgery, it's more of a question of when. Not only do they need the required letters, but they also need the money, the courage and the time, since not everyone can afford to miss work for 3 months.

Personally, I don't hate my dick. Most of the time I don't even remember it's there, but there's way more downsides to having that than not. I love swimming and since I started my transition, I can only swim at my parent's place when they are away. I also love sports but I fear changing rooms... I'm 100% passable but once in underwears, there's no more hiding, and sport wears are often much more revealing than jeans. It's also not very confortable and annoying with clothes, depending of your size.

It won't make me more of a girl. I'm already 100% female. It will only remove a big chain on my freedom.

[giovanni_hotel]

The OP is flaming.

Isn't it enough to know that some trangendered women get SRS and some don't??
Why do these girls have to psychologically unwrap themselves to satisfy your own personal curiosity??

IMO you're basically saying a TG who doesn't get SRS is dysfunctional.
Jeezus man.
It's really going halfway around the world to find pussy if the one place you hope to find it is between the legs of a postop transchick.

Just saying, if I was looking for vagina, I wouldn't start looking for it on HA.

[amberskyi]

Um that's weird

[giovanni_hotel]

It's weird to me to be into postop TGs when there's not much noticeably different really from them and GGs. It's that 'transgendered' classification which I don't think carries much weight to most guys attracted to TGs once they've had the cut.

So if she's just another girl anatomically, why would you be looking to find that on a site like HA???

It's sort of like if there were a pill that turned Black guys White. Then a woman says, 'I'm only attracted to White guys who used to be Black.' WTF??
Like what's the difference?? I don't get the special attraction to who that person used to be.

Of if someone said I only like skinny girls who used to be fat.

Whenever I hear someone say they prefer postop TGs, it's almost like they're saying they like the fact that a girl used to have a penis, but decided to cut it off.

I don't get it.

[BrendaTG]

The OP is flaming.

Isn't it enough to know that some trangendered women get SRS and some don't??
Why do these girls have to psychologically unwrap themselves to satisfy your own personal curiosity??

IMO you're basically saying a TG who doesn't get SRS is dysfunctional.
Jeezus man.
It's really going halfway around the world to find pussy if the one place you hope to find it is between the legs of a postop transchick.

Just saying, if I was looking for vagina, I wouldn't start looking for it on HA.

If you love woman...why is her having a cock so important to you?

You are basically saying that a post op transgirl is dysfunctional.

jeeezus girl !!!

[BrendaTG]

Whenever I hear someone say they prefer postop TGs, it's almost like they're saying they like the fact that a girl used to have a penis, but decided to cut it off.

I don't get it.

and how is that more freaky compared to you wanting a girl with a cock ?

[loveboof]

It's weird to me to be into postop TGs when there's not much noticeably different really from them and GGs. It's that 'transgendered' classification which I don't think carries much weight to most guys attracted to TGs once they've had the cut.

So if she's just another girl anatomically, why would you be looking to find that on a site like HA???

It's sort of like if there were a pill that turned Black guys White. Then a woman says, 'I'm only attracted to White guys who used to be Black.' WTF??
Like what's the difference?? I don't get the special attraction to who that person used to be.

Of if someone said I only like skinny girls who used to be fat.

Whenever I hear someone say they prefer postop TGs, it's almost like they're saying they like the fact that a girl used to have a penis, but decided to cut it off.

I don't get it.

I don't fully get it myself, but in all those examples you gave there would still be a difference.

A skinny girl who used to be fat would be skinny, but possibly with a different attitude to other skinny girls. The ex-black white guy would be white, but might be able to dance (lol. obviously joking)

Likewise, the post-op tgirl would be a woman but maybe with a slightly different take on things.. dunno

Personally I prefer genetic girls, but also find some pre-op tgirls to be hot. However, for the post-op women - tbh, I would just prefer a genetic woman.

[Remy757Photog]

I want to have GRS myself and its a financial reason that hinders it only. I do enjoy my sexual organs as much as I can until that day comes when I can afford to have GRS. I don't expect life to change outwardly after surgery, but I do despise having to tuck, having a penis is rather annoying and doesn't really conform to how I view myself. Regardless of whether I eventually have GRS or not I'm still a woman first inside and out.

[BrendaTG]

I dont get is that Tgirl would want to top a guy when she truely feels like a girl.
I just dont get it.

Perhaps because she expects them to be great shopping friends....and that they will do her hair afterwards ;)

[amberskyi]

It's weird to me to be into postop TGs when there's not much noticeably different really from them and GGs. It's that 'transgendered' classification which I don't think carries much weight to most guys attracted to TGs once they've had the cut.

So if she's just another girl anatomically, why would you be looking to find that on a site like HA???

It's sort of like if there were a pill that turned Black guys White. Then a woman says, 'I'm only attracted to White guys who used to be Black.' WTF??
Like what's the difference?? I don't get the special attraction to who that person used to be.

Of if someone said I only like skinny girls who used to be fat.

Whenever I hear someone say they prefer postop TGs, it's almost like they're saying they like the fact that a girl used to have a penis, but decided to cut it off.

I don't get it.

I don't understand a specific preference for post op woman either but i don't think it's weird.mind you some close-mind people can use your argument against your attraction to pre op woman.if you want a dick why not just get a man.you see how that's not really fair?
Personally i could never be with a man who would cease to be attracted to me because i got a vagina.i interpret that as my penis was more important to you than me being a woman.i don't like cock focused guys anyway.while i do enjoy penis stimulation i want a man that appreciates my feminine bits way more.

[Rabbiteyes]

I could understand a guy wanting a post-op trans girl over a GG. Going through transition really does make you appreciate things a bit more.

[giovanni_hotel]

and how is that more freaky compared to you wanting a girl with a cock ?


The difference is I know what it is I like about preop transgendered women.
But to specify you prefer pussy but only when it used to be a penis, instead of just saying you like pussy period, is unusual to me.

If you have a problem with the dick just say that.

I can't tell if dudes are saying they would find TGs more attractive with a pussy, or if they actively have a preference for transgendered pussy.

Once a GG or TG has a pussy, I don't really make a huge distinction anymore.

BTW if you're really into the girl and in a LTR, if you're into GGs and TGs like I am, I don't think her getting SRS would be that stressful to the relationship.

Whatever. I still think it's strange but I'm trying not to judge.
If it works for you, go for it.

As for my attraction to preop transwomen being turned against me - why not just fuck with dudes if you're so cock friendly - that's just not my experience with TGs and not what I'm attracted to.

TGs aren't guys with cocks who look feminine. They are women who do everything they can to transition to match their psychological image, but still have their penis.

Again if it were just about dick, there are easier ways to find it!lol

[BrendaTG]

I don't understand a specific preference for post op woman either but i don't think it's weird.mind you some close-mind people can use your argument against your attraction to pre op woman.if you want a dick why not just get a man.you see how that's not really fair?
Personally i could never be with a man who would cease to be attracted to me because i got a vagina.i interpret that as my penis was more important to you than me being a woman.i don't like cock focused guys anyway.while i do enjoy penis stimulation i want a man that appreciates my feminine bits way more.

Keep in mind that a lot of straight guys are in reality dysfunctional men.

Being with a post op Tgirl might really excite them because secretly they love dressing up themselves...it aroused them...along with the vagina...a lot of straight men want vaginas while they are mentally and psychologically "straight men".

Its an sexual fixation with being and becoming woman that drives them to us.

Bisexual men with no such issues are best prefered over such men.

Bisexual tops to me are the superior alpha.males of the planet..
The rest are all dysfunctional men lol

[DreadedFlower]

I dont get is that Tgirl would want to top a guy when she truely feels like a girl.
I just dont get it.

Perhaps because she expects them to be great shopping friends....and that they will do her hair afterwards ;)


Do you enjoy fucking? It's as enjoyable for us, you know. It doesn't make me feel more or less feminine, it's just fun.


I could understand a guy wanting a post-op trans girl over a GG. Going through transition really does make you appreciate things a bit more.

Being lesbian, I do get two comments from my girlfriends :
- You're lucky, you'll never be in your periods.
- We can have genetic kids together.

The second point can be a bad things for guys who want kids, but the first one is always a good thing, lol.

[BrendaTG]

Do you enjoy fucking? It's as enjoyable for us, you know. It doesn't make me feel more or less feminine, it's just fun.



Being lesbian, I do get two comments from my girlfriends :
- You're lucky, you'll never be in your periods.
- We can have genetic kids together.

The second point can be a bad things for guys who want kids, but the first one is always a good thing, lol.

I am a Tgirl and no, fucking never was, and never will be enjoyable for me :).
Does not matter to me if you have a vagina or not..a TS that liked/likes to fuck will never be a woman in my eyes.
And I have the right to think this way...just as guys have the right to prefer pre-ops to post -ops.

[DreadedFlower]

I am a Tgirl and no, fucking never was, and never will be enjoyable for me :).
Does not matter to me if you have a vagina or not..a TS that liked/likes to fuck will never be a woman in my eyes.
And I have the right to think this way...just as guys have the right to prefer pre-ops to post -ops.

You have the right to not like it, but not to say that TS who like to fuck are lesser women. It's just sexual preferences. Some GG are more vaginal, others are more clitoridial. Biologically, fucking is pleasureable, just like prostate simulation is pleasureable. Is a man no longer a man because he likes to be fucked? Not at all.

I myself would be unable to fuck a man, but it's just because I don't like men. Fucking girls is still pleasureable.

[Rusty Eldora]

I don't understand a specific preference for post op woman either but i don't think it's weird.mind you some close-mind people can use your argument against your attraction to pre op woman.if you want a dick why not just get a man.you see how that's not really fair?
Personally i could never be with a man who would cease to be attracted to me because i got a vagina.i interpret that as my penis was more important to you than me being a woman.i don't like cock focused guys anyway.while i do enjoy penis stimulation i want a man that appreciates my feminine bits way more.

We all are trying to find and be comfortable with ourselves, to find our place. Tgirls have a longer and harder journey, in particular in that they are ground breakers still in society, future generations will have more acceptance. There are a lot of aspects to being a man or woman besides the hardware. Finding and being with a partner should be about how each compliments the other (both ways). Sex is important in a relationship, but it is best when each are happy with who they are and who they are with.

A penis doesn't make a man or Tgirl, but I would fear that SRS may leave the woman without the ability to have sexual orgasm. But that is a decision that only she should make, after careful thought and discussion with her partner, friends, family, and her physician.

[FreddieGomez]

why are more dudes answering than ts women?

[giovanni_hotel]

I think for a chick the question may be more personal than they're comfortable discussing on a site like HA.

Trust, EVERY guy into tgirls has an opinion about SRS.

[BrendaTG]

You have the right to not like it, but not to say that TS who like to fuck are lesser women. It's just sexual preferences. Some GG are more vaginal, others are more clitoridial. Biologically, fucking is pleasureable, just like prostate simulation is pleasureable. Is a man no longer a man because he likes to be fucked? Not at all.

I myself would be unable to fuck a man, but it's just because I don't like men. Fucking girls is still pleasureable.


Did you know that they have had brain scans done on TS that are supposed "lesbians" and that their brain activity is IDENTICAL to that of straight men? As opposed to the brains of Tgirls that dig men? Their brain show simularities to that of GG's :)

Very interesting :)

[BrendaTG]

- You're lucky, you'll never be in your periods.
- We can have genetic kids together.

The second point can be a bad things for guys who want kids, but the first one is always a good thing, lol.

Thats pretty ignorant of those lesbian woman because a lot of Twoman experience hormonal imbalance for the rest of their lives and the ones that did not start as early as childhood have gone through the worst hormonal nightmare NO woman should have to go through ever...

But then again... you would not know...
Since you had a good time as a male penetrating GG's :)
And decided to become one yourself...

Its obvious that you view things "slighly" out of focus :)

Proves my point again and again... most TS aren't woman at all... but men wanting to become and be woman.
There is a HUGE difference.

[giovanni_hotel]

Did you know that they have had brain scans done on TS that are supposed "lesbians" and that their brain activity is IDENTICAL to that of straight men? As opposed to the brains of Tgirls that dig men? Their brain show simularities to that of GG's :)

Very interesting :)

You know this is funny right???:dancing:

[amberskyi]

Actually the only studies that had concretely shown difference in the bain size of ts woman versus men where the girls who were long time hormone use

[BrendaTG]

Actually the only studies that had concretely site difference is the bain size of yd woman versus men where the girls who were long time hormone use


http://www.mygenes.co.nz/transsexualBrain.htm

Recently a paper by Savic and Arver ( 2011) has appeared. Their innovation is to take a study group composed only of male-to-female gynephiles (i.e. those attracted sexually to women). Previous male-to-female studies mixed gynephiles and androphiles. The authors found that the brains in their study group were not feminised. There was no evidence for female brains in a male body; the brains were male-typical. This is contrary to many of the previous research studies on mixed groups, but the study is thorough.

[Odelay]

I'm wondering about the guys who wonder about the girls who wonder about the guys who wonder about girls getting SRS. Can you guys please elaborate on your opinions? It would mean a lot to me.

[Remy757Photog]

Is there a link to this study?

Sexual orientation and gender identity are two different things.

[BrendaTG]

Trust, EVERY guy into tgirls has an opinion about SRS.

Everybody has opinions. Its not worth a thing.. other then a warning for Tgirls :)

[BrendaTG]

Is there a link to this study?

Sexual orientation and gender identity are two different things.

http://www.mygenes.co.nz/transsexualBrain.htm

:)

[amberskyi]

http://www.mygenes.co.nz/transsexualBrain.htm

Recently a paper by Savic and Arver ( 2011) has appeared. Their innovation is to take a study group composed only of male-to-female gynephiles (i.e. those attracted sexually to women). Previous male-to-female studies mixed gynephiles and androphiles. The authors found that the brains in their study group were not feminised. There was no evidence for female brains in a male body; the brains were male-typical. This is contrary to many of the previous research studies on mixed groups, but the study is thorough.

By that same logic genetic lesbian woman should have make brains.
Do genetic woman who are lesbians cease to be woman? NO
So why should it be different for ts woman.
This whole I'm more woman thing is pretty immature and adds to the guys stereotype that we're all types of crazy.

[alpha2117]

From my experience and it's only my experience there are a lot of different factors involved.

1) Most of the ladies are uncomfortable with their initial genitalia and start out wanting the surgery

2) Most see the docs about that

3) They then have all the info and that starts to effect their decision. The surgery is major abdominal work and it used to be said to take 10 years off your life although modern techniques have removed much of that risk. It's still major work though and the post surgery recovery process is not pleasant.

4) As we get older we all get more comfortable with our self image. When girls are young they pretty much all feel uncomfortable with their boy parts but when they are older they often start to define themselves less by their genitalia than they did when they were a teenager. If you no longer define being a woman just by the genitalia you have then changing that genitalia seems less significant.

5) If you no longer define being a woman by your body parts then having the surgery straight away becomes less pressing many start to feel that the surgery is something they can hold off on until later or perhaps never.

6) The experiences of other girls they know helps inform their choices. If their friends who transitioned had good experiences then they feel more positive towards having the surgery but if they had negative post surgery experiences then they may feel more negative about it.

7) Sex - The girl may discover she likes her current sex life and begin to have concerns about that post surgery.

8) Money - it's expensive surgery if you aren't in a place where it's covered by medical care services.

9) Relationship - If the girl is in a relationship and it's stable and happy then she may decide not to proceed with such a major step that has the potential to change that dynamic. If she feels accepted and loved then that takes away some of the factors that may have driven her towards surgery in the first place. If her self image is still negative she would still proceed but if she has become more comfortable then it may simply seem like something she no longer needs to do.

10) Legal recognition - If you have to have the surgery to be considered a woman you may choose to do that but some places allow you to be Female legally without the full GRS.

11) Family - If the girls family accept her as a femal anyway then that takes away a pressure.

12) Children - If you have the GRS can you adopt?, If your partner has children from another relationship do you need to change etc etc.

13) Society - Is her environment more accepting of her if she has gone the full op or less accepting. Will her life be made easier or harder? These are complex questions and every area and individual are different.

14) Lastly - Not everyone is the same in the first place. Some girls never really want that major surgery but still want to live their lives as a woman. The genitalia under the clothes isn't the issue for them.

Like so many things in life it's not a simple black and white situation and people who say it is are kidding themselves. I know people who have had the snip early in life and people who never had it and never will. It's their decision and I respect that.

[BrendaTG]

Do genetic woman who are lesbians cease to be woman? NO
So why should it be different for ts woman.
This whole I'm more woman thing is pretty immature and adds to the guys stereotype that we're all types of crazy.

Have you ever seen a TYPICAL LESBIAN with a masculine way of thinking... a masculine sexuality, and masculine job/hobby's interestst etc... that loves to wear extreme high heels and likes to look slutty ?

I never meet them in real life.
They are a product of the political correctness that has grown from gay/lesbian transgender emancipation that straight men now often abuse to their own ends... and of course they are the result of a permissive sociaty.

But are they woman?
Yeah of course... if you want to be politically correct.
But to me most of them are males :)

[christianxxx]

i love both GG TS and Post Op women equally. hot is hot is hot and as long as i can orgasm through passionate sex, its fine with me. :)

[BrendaTG]

From my experience and it's only my experience there are a lot of different factors involved.

1) Most of the ladies are uncomfortable with their initial genitalia and start out wanting the surgery

2) Most see the docs about that

3) They then have all the info and that starts to effect their decision. The surgery is major abdominal work and it used to be said to take 10 years off your life although modern techniques have removed much of that risk. It's still major work though and the post surgery recovery process is not pleasant.

4) As we get older we all get more comfortable with our self image. When girls are young they pretty much all feel uncomfortable with their boy parts but when they are older they often start to define themselves less by their genitalia than they did when they were a teenager. If you no longer define being a woman just by the genitalia you have then changing that genitalia seems less significant.

5) If you no longer define being a woman by your body parts then having the surgery straight away becomes less pressing many start to feel that the surgery is something they can hold off on until later or perhaps never.

6) The experiences of other girls they know helps inform their choices. If their friends who transitioned had good experiences then they feel more positive towards having the surgery but if they had negative post surgery experiences then they may feel more negative about it.

7) Sex - The girl may discover she likes her current sex life and begin to have concerns about that post surgery.

8) Money - it's expensive surgery if you aren't in a place where it's covered by medical care services.

9) Relationship - If the girl is in a relationship and it's stable and happy then she may decide not to proceed with such a major step that has the potential to change that dynamic. If she feels accepted and loved then that takes away some of the factors that may have driven her towards surgery in the first place. If her self image is still negative she would still proceed but if she has become more comfortable then it may simply seem like something she no longer needs to do.

10) Legal recognition - If you have to have the surgery to be considered a woman you may choose to do that but some places allow you to be Female legally without the full GRS.

11) Family - If the girls family accept her as a femal anyway then that takes away a pressure.

12) Children - If you have the GRS can you adopt?, If your partner has children from another relationship do you need to change etc etc.

13) Society - Is her environment more accepting of her if she has gone the full op or less accepting. Will her life be made easier or harder? These are complex questions and every area and individual are different.

14) Lastly - Not everyone is the same in the first place. Some girls never really want that major surgery but still want to live their lives as a woman. The genitalia under the clothes isn't the issue for them.

Like so many things in life it's not a simple black and white situation and people who say it is are kidding themselves. I know people who have had the snip early in life and people who never had it and never will. It's their decision and I respect that.

Intelligent post. I think you are correct. As a non-op I recognise a lot of what you wrote.

[blckhaze]

dont care either way
I believe my GF and her best friend did a video on youtube about this topic since they both had a split view of the subject (search intransheart). If not I know almost 99% certainly Diamond Styles did one on her own.
Basically, On the one hands, Girl A wanted it, because she (not a verbatem quote) "didnt want to grow old with it there". She plans on going step by step until eventually the full snip. On the other, Girls B didnt want it. She felt that unless the new vagina was a complete working unit, able to reproduce, it wasnt worth it, even if it was free of inexpensive. The risks involved, both physical and mental, outweighed the rewards.

Not all ts are wired the same. Some have a complete aversion to their genitals and willdo all they cant to be rid of it. Others are able to embrace their wommanhood along with their natural appendage. Being Trans isnt black and white. The choices are simply an extension of their feelings.

[amberskyi]

Have you ever seen a TYPICAL LESBIAN with a masculine way of thinking... a masculine sexuality, and masculine job/hobby's interestst etc... that loves to wear extreme high heels and likes to look slutty ?

I never meet them in real life.
They are a product of the political correctness that has grown from gay/lesbian transgender emancipation that straight men now often abuse to their own ends... and of course they are the result of a permissive sociaty.

But are they woman?
Yeah of course... if you want to be politically correct.
But to me most of them are males :)

I know tons way more fem lesbian woman than butch ones.maybe you should get out more.

[BrendaTG]

I know tons way more fem lesbian woman than butch ones.maybe you should get out more.

Fem lesbians usually aren't typically male/masculine in every conceivable way like TS """fem"""" lesbians are.

[amberskyi]

Fem lesbians usually aren't typically male in every conceivable way like TS """fem"""" lesbians are.

How so? Please explain that.how is it different for ts woman?
For some one whos so concerned with being a typical woman i find it interesting that you regard behavior/sexuality in ts woman different from genetic woman.

[Jamie French]

I've grown quite attached to it ever since I had my dick installed.

Seriously: Keeping the cock = sex remains awesome.

[BrendaTG]

and adds to the guys stereotype that we're all types of crazy.

The guys stereotype of TS woman is that we are normal functional males that want to become woman... or that we are men that dress like woman to be able to please their straight anus :)

[amberskyi]

The guys stereotype of TS woman is that we are normal functional males that want to become woman... or that we are men that dress like woman to be able to please their straight anus :)

Lol for some this is def the case lol

[Remy757Photog]

How are ts 'fem' lesbians male in every conceivable way?

I'm talking to a GG now who is the 'Top' partner sexually, so explain by your reasoning how that makes me male in every conceivable way...

[BrendaTG]

How so? Please explain that.how is it different for ts woman?
For some one whos so concerned with being a typical woman i find it interesting that you regard behavior/sexuality in ts woman different from genetic woman.

Fem lesbians usually are FEMININE! Of course we are all a mixture of masculinity and femininity.

But "fem" (as is clothes) TS lesbians tend to be masculine in every way.
There were studies done on such TS-woman and even post-op...these TS "lesbians" were male typical thinkers in every possible way.

You might compare their mind to that of a butch lesbian when it comes to masculinity... but a butch lesbian often has no fetish for high heels and lingery on themselves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[amberskyi]

Fem lesbians usually are FEMININE! Of course we are all a mixture of masculinity and femininity.

But "fem" (as is clothes) TS lesbians tend to be masculine in every way.
There were studies done on such TS-woman and even post-op...these TS "lesbians" were male typical thinkers in every possible way.

You might compare their mind to that of a butch lesbian when it comes to masculinity... but a butch lesbian often has no fetish for high heels and lingery on themselves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Funny because here i am,a straight bottom ts woman but because of my aggressive, opinionated mentality have been accused of being masculine (like many strong, opinionated woman have been).guess we all don't fit in boxes huh

[BrendaTG]

Oh and I should add:

A lot of heterosexual males are secretly transvestite... and to love high heels and fetish clothes/lingery is often typical for those heterosexual transvestites :)
They get aroused by it.

There are more simularities between a heterosexual transvestite and a TS lesbian... then there are simularities between TS lesbians and (butch)lesbians.

That is why Germain Greer for example stated correctly that most TS have had every opportunity as a male in sociaty and that they try to infiltrate the world of woman... where they should be denied a place :) hihi

[Remy757Photog]

You might compare their mind to that of a butch lesbian when it comes to masculinity... but a butch lesbian often has no fetish for high heels and lingery on themselves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I live in a small town and know of three 'butch' lesbians that love corsets and high heels in my town alone. Imagine how many more then that might exist when you factor in the rest of the world.

[Rusty Eldora]

I've grown quite attached to it ever since I had my dick installed.

Seriously: Keeping the cock = sex remains awesome.

Kudos Jamie

Ambersky - you have your own custom box that you make and fit perfectly in.

You as you.

[BrendaTG]

Funny because here i am,a straight bottom ts woman but because of my aggressive, opinionated mentality have been accused of being masculine (like many strong, opinionated woman have been).guess we all don't fit in boxes huh

The thing is Amber.... most of us straight bottom TS girls were soft and feminine in our youth and once we transition we get more opinionated and agressive while with most TS lesbians its precisely the other way around...
Usually they were very agressive opinionated and dominant as males... and get all "feminine"" because of the hormones...
almost as if its a cure for hypermasculinity for them...

Like men that hate their sex drive and want to be castrated :)

[BrendaTG]

I live in a small town and know of three 'butch' lesbians that love corsets and high heels in my town alone. Imagine how many more then that might exist when you factor in the rest of the world.

There are always exceptions. I have known lesbian Tgirls that I considered girls yes. But I met a lot of them that were male-typical. Did not feel like woman to me... or other people I might add!

[DreadedFlower]

Thats pretty ignorant of those lesbian woman because a lot of Twoman experience hormonal imbalance for the rest of their lives and the ones that did not start as early as childhood have gone through the worst hormonal nightmare NO woman should have to go through ever...

But then again... you would not know...
Since you had a good time as a male penetrating GG's :)
And decided to become one yourself...

Its obvious that you view things "slighly" out of focus :)

Proves my point again and again... most TS aren't woman at all... but men wanting to become and be woman.
There is a HUGE difference.

Did you know that they have had brain scans done on TS that are supposed "lesbians" and that their brain activity is IDENTICAL to that of straight men? As opposed to the brains of Tgirls that dig men? Their brain show simularities to that of GG's :)

Very interesting :)


If you do it step by step, as you should, you should be checked by a doctor and an endo often enough to have very little hormonal imbalance, except in some rare occasions that will affect hormonal balances, such as surgeries.

And all that says is that you are homophobic towards ts, nothing more. What do you know of me other than the fact that I am lesbian? Nothing. Sexual orientation and gender are too different things.

Also, since surgery is paid by the government where I live, the procedures are very strict so that they don't get to pay for people who do not really suffer from gender dysphoria. I did go through every steps much faster than most.

[BrendaTG]

If you do it step by step, as you should, you should be checked by a doctor and an endo often enough to have very little hormonal imbalance, except in some rare occasions that will affect hormonal balances, such as surgeries.

And all that says is that you are homophobic towards ts, nothing more. What do you know of me other than the fact that I am lesbian? Nothing. Sexual orientation and gender are too different things.

Also, since surgery is paid by the government where I live, the procedures are very strict so that they don't get to pay for people who do not really suffer from gender dysphoria. I did go through every steps much faster than most.

The diagnosis means nothing because it is not based on science... its based on the standards of care. It does not tell anything about you being a woman or not. It just says that you are a TS... nothing more or less.

Did you know that a lot of lesbians TS are homophobic?? Thats really fun!!!
Some of them even mean to speak out to the world and say... even though I wear dresses and took on the name of a woman... I am not GAY!!!!

Just hilarious !!

[Remy757Photog]

There are always exceptions. I have known lesbian Tgirls that I considered girls yes. But I met a lot of them that were male-typical. Did not feel like woman to me... or other people I might add!

A lot of what you have said is similar to what has been said on another forum with regard to 'super transsexuals' that among other things feel that you are not truly trans if you use your penis in any sexual capacity at all.

You are entitled to your opinion but that hardly speaks for all of the transsexuals.

[BrendaTG]

If you do it step by step, as you should, you should be checked by a doctor and an endo often enough to have very little hormonal imbalance, except in some rare occasions that will affect hormonal balances, such as surgeries.


You cannot compare the female endocrine system to that of a TS... which usually involves just estrogen and a little testosterone... most often no progesterone... and all hormones TS woman have aren't natural. A lot of TS woman experience hormone imbalance because of this thoughout their entire lives...

[DreadedFlower]

Have you ever seen a TYPICAL LESBIAN with a masculine way of thinking... a masculine sexuality, and masculine job/hobby's interestst etc... that loves to wear extreme high heels and likes to look slutty ?

I never meet them in real life.
They are a product of the political correctness that has grown from gay/lesbian transgender emancipation that straight men now often abuse to their own ends... and of course they are the result of a permissive sociaty.

But are they woman?
Yeah of course... if you want to be politically correct.
But to me most of them are males :)

And please, try to actually know what you are talking about instead of just what you see. There's GG lesbians in every categories of girls and I have met many of each. The stereotypical lesbian is the visible one, but not the only ones.

Your opinions are not facts, please, keep your homophobic views to yourself, especially here. By your logic, most of the guys here are gays...

[LibertyHarkness]

lol each to their own view point at end of day ... only viewpoint in life that matters is yours alone on how you see yourself not what other people think ...

If a girl is masculine/femine/gay/straight/fat/thin/ugly/pretty what does it matter at the end of the day , it makes no one less of a person and in life there is no one box tick all answer :)

As to the OP point myself , yes i will get SRS eventually, at moment my dick has a use as it is securing my financial future, its paying for surgeries, its paying for my studio business, property etc .. once it has served its purpose then :)

[BrendaTG]

And please, try to actually know what you are talking about instead of just what you see. There's GG lesbians in every categories of girls and I have met many of each. The stereotypical lesbian is the visible one, but not the only ones.

Your opinions are not facts, please, keep your homophobic views to yourself, especially here. By your logic, most of the guys here are gays...

I am not homophobic hahaha
I am gay myself :)
Being called straight or gay... does not bother me in the least.
Its all good.

I rather be compared to feminine gay boys then to masculine lesbian TS "woman" who's life experiences and way of thinking I have absolutely NOTHING in commen with :D

[BrendaTG]

Oh and yeah most of the guys here are gay yes. And I accept them. I just dont want to share my bed with them.

I like bisexual tops only ! :)
Makes perfect sense doesn't it.

Also I think bisexual tops are much more fun then straight guys who tend to be boring ! lol

[DreadedFlower]

The thing is Amber.... most of us straight bottom TS girls were soft and feminine in our youth and once we transition we get more opinionated and agressive while with most TS lesbians its precisely the other way around...
Usually they were very agressive opinionated and dominant as males... and get all "feminine"" because of the hormones...
almost as if its a cure for hypermasculinity for them...

Like men that hate their sex drive and want to be castrated :)

For me it was the other way around. In my teens, I was very passive and had no confidence at all, but being myself gave me a lot of confidence which resulted in a pretty aggressive behavior in my professional life. Heck, I've been called a girl all my life, even by total strangers, because I have always looked like a girl.

[Remy757Photog]

I am not homophobic hahaha
I am gay myself :)
Being called straight or gay... does not bother me in the least.
Its all good.

I rather be compared to feminine gay boys then to masculine lesbian TS "woman" who's life experiences and way of thinking I have absolutely NOTHING in commen with :D

So you consider yourself gay? Is that to say that you don't consider yourself to be a woman at all?

[BrendaTG]

So you consider yourself gay? Is that to say that you don't consider yourself to be a woman at all?

No it just means that I am not insulted when someone calls me gay cause I take pride in it. (most TS admirers should see me as an example for them :) )
I do consider myself a woman.

[DreadedFlower]

Just out of the TS lesbians I know in real life, one of them is very feminine but is asexual. She enjoys relationship with a woman but she doesn't enjoy sex. Another is very feminine as well but really enjoy sex and tried a lot of stuff. Another is not very feminine in her dressing and doesn't like make-up and fashion or whatever, but her way of thinking is the pure feminine stereotype of the princess.

Next to them, I'm a tomboy, but that's who I am and all my GG heterosexual friends are tomboys as well.

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that nothing is binary. There's no such things as woman or not, 0 or 1, especially not based on the fact that you wear jeans or make-up or that you like shopping or hiking.

[BrendaTG]

Just out of the TS lesbians I know in real life, one of them is very feminine but is asexual. She enjoys relationship with a woman but she doesn't enjoy sex. Another is very feminine as well but really enjoy sex and tried a lot of stuff. Another is not very feminine in her dressing and doesn't like make-up and fashion or whatever, but her way of thinking is the pure feminine stereotype of the princess.

Next to them, I'm a tomboy, but that's who I am and all my GG heterosexual friends are tomboys as well.

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is that nothing is binary. There's no such things as woman or not, 0 or 1, especially not based on the fact that you wear jeans or make-up or that you like shopping or hiking.

That I know.
I never denied that.

I have met a lot of lesbian Tgirls and almost all of them were masculine in their way of thinking and personalities.

There were exceptions of course. But even then....

There are also a lot of Tgirls with a GAY personality who I do not consider feminine as well.

In fact... there are very few genuine feminine Tgirls around

[bluesoul]

As to the OP point myself , yes i will get SRS eventually, at moment my dick has a use as it is securing my financial future, its paying for surgeries, its paying for my studio business, property etc .. once it has served its purpose then :)

too bad your dick doesn't know what's in store for it in the future. i almost feel like telling it, but i won't

[BellaBellucci]

'Lifestyle?' :?

I'd hardly call it that if one truly is a female in spirit and identity. Transition is a necessary life choice. Being a CD/TV, on the other hand, is a lifestyle.

~BB~

[DreadedFlower]

That I know.
I never denied that.

I have met a lot of lesbian Tgirls and almost all of them were masculine in their way of thinking and personalities.

There were exceptions of course. But even then....

There are also a lot of Tgirls with a GAY personality who I do not consider feminine as well.

But push your reflexion further and apply that to GGs. You'll find that few of them actually are feminine in their way of thinking. Our society pushed out women to "wear the pants". Heck, my mother is more masculine than my father, she's the leader of the family. TS are no different than any other girls.

[BrendaTG]

But push your reflexion further and apply that to GGs. You'll find that few of them actually are feminine in their way of thinking. Our society pushed out women to "wear the pants". Heck, my mother is more masculine than my father, she's the leader of the family. TS are no different than any other girls.

Well yes you are right about that.
But there is a difference.
To be dominant or passive from a female ground is different then being dominant or passive from a male ground.

Its about origins for me.
Not about the end-behavior.

[ChubsterT]

:confused:Does anyone really understend the why int the why they are the way they are???

For 40 years i have been a chick loving sulf proclaimed pussy mad sex addict.

I hit 40 and all of a sudden a girl getting eaten out is nowhere near as much of a turn on as a girl getting a BJ.

The thought and sight of Male to Male sex still makes my stomach turn (just being honest) but to see a man pleasuring a woman orally, either BJ or at Y is my favourite (these days particularly BJ)

I have not yet had the pleasure of pleasuring a TW orally but it may happen within the next few days if all goes well. Maybe i will feel differently afterwards, i hope not.

I know this doesn't exactly fit in with what is being discussed, i just wonder why people have to try and put people in boxes and then label the boxes right or wrong?

I have really struggled with the fact that i am bursting to have a beautiful lady's cock down my throat to the point of asking myself what box i am in. Who i am doesn't matter to or effect anyone that i do not spend time with so who cares?

people who want SRS have made that choice! good for them!
people who don not, simply don't. They have gone through the 'pro's and con's' process and found it unnecessary! Good for them to.

no offence intended to anyone - just sayin! :kiss:T:kiss:

[TSLillyBlue]

This thread delivers!!! We have a little bit of discussion of personal sexual identity as a whole. We are discussing physical sex with the whole SRS topic then we jump into sexual orientation with all of the post talking about who is gay and who isn't. From there peoples gender identities have been brought into question based on their sexual orientation. Made for 30 minutes of very entertaining reading.

Now for the responses, First, to the op...

As to the OP point myself , yes i will get SRS eventually, at moment my dick has a use as it is securing my financial future, its paying for surgeries, its paying for my studio business, property etc .. once it has served its purpose then :)
What she said. My dick pays the bills right now so it stays. When that changes so does it.

Next to those trying to attach a sexual orientation to the admires of pre-op and non-op girls...
I can only speak from personal experiences but the guys who want to see me are very much straight. These guys tell me I'm hot and like my feminine appearance. They see me as a woman from what I can tell. From there it goes one of two ways. There are the straight guys who like me and person I am. They don't care about the dick either way. These are the guys I date. Then there are the straight guys with a fetish for dick. I don't usually date these guys simply because I do want surgery so long term viability of the relationship isn't there. I really don't mind having sex with them though, especially if they are paying. There is nothing wrong with any of these guys at all and the vast majority are awesome and respectful so it's all good.
I also have a ton of respect for any guy who is into TGirls simply because its not the cool thing to do right now. Takes guts to stand up to society and say, "I know who I am and what I like and really don't care what you think about it." If anyone should be able to recognize this it is a TGirl because we have to be able to make that same statement about ourselves. As for the person who likes post-op girls. He knows what he wants. Have to respect that.

To those arguing about how sexual orientation relates to gender identity...
"I know who I am and what I like and really don't care what you think about it." Take that stance and the argument is over.
My personal gender identity is transsexual woman. I didn't say woman because I don't feel I am a woman or ever will be a woman (personal belief and I do not project this onto other girls). Instead I am a transsexual woman. Although blessed to be able to live the remainder of my life as a woman and be treated as a woman I was raised as a man and my first 25 years of experiences occurred while I was treated like a man. I believe, male socialization will affect decisions I make 10, 15, or 100 years from now. I truly value all of those previous experiences as they helped shape me into the awesome trans woman i am today. Those male based experiences make me different from women but again, it's all good because, "I know who I am and what I like and really don't care what you think about it."
My sexual orientation is fun. When it comes to relationships, I don't care what a person has between their legs, it's what's between their ears that counts. Same goes for sex. The largest sex organ in the body is the brain, not the genitals. Wanna prove that theory, talk dirty to me and watch me squirm and orgasm without physical contact. It happens, thankfully a lot. Do I have things I like more than others, of course, but I'm still happy and satisfied with the vast majority of my sexual encounters because I have opened my mind to enjoying all kinds of kinky, naughty fun. But again when it comes down it, "I know who I am and what I like and really don't care what you think about it."

I think I covered just about everyone on these boards. Final thoughts, "I know who I am and what I like and really don't care what you think about it." Words I live by. I may just have to get that tattooed somewhere.

[MrsKellyPierce]

The fact the surgery is not always a great outcome, is what holds me back.

Many girls end up with great results and are able to enjoy sex and orgasm.

But many also don't.

I would be scared I'd end up with a vagina I would want to hide and the thought of never enjoying sex again with my husband or in the future scares me.

Dr. Reed told me he can't promise how it will look or if I'll ever achieve orgasm.

Those are coming from a surgeon.

[iagodelgado]

What she said. My dick pays the bills right now so it stays. When that changes so does it.


Loved the whole post. Just a particular bit that made me smile. :Bowdown:

[Rusty Eldora]

I have not yet had the pleasure of pleasuring a TW orally but it may happen within the next few days if all goes well. Maybe i will feel differently afterwards, i hope not.

I have really struggled with the fact that i am bursting to have a beautiful lady's cock down my throat to the point of asking myself what box i am in. Who i am doesn't matter to or effect anyone that i do not spend time with so who cares?

I was so worried myself that part of me that wanted to suck cock would conflict with revulsion from another part. Turned out I loved it, but the cock needs to be part of a female. I don't think I could handle a male.

As to what box, I'm probably in the bi column, but does it matter.

[archineer]

Personally, i've found that you can ask 10 different girls this question (and not just about srs but transition and surgeries as a whole) and you'll get 10 different answers. No two girls feel the same way, it's a personal thing. I think it's more of a spectrum tbh.

[postopadmirer]

Wow! Thanks for the replies. I was unprepared for the volume of posts. I appreciate the heartfelt answers. Somebody mentioned what kind of replies I might get on HA, could be true but really where else can you ask this question from women who are living out in public and not hiding? Again I have really appreciated the replies and am greatful that for the most part it has not turned into the "dick/no dick" "straight/gay" theme that many threads drift into.

Makes me love you girls even more.
I have huge repect for what you are going through and wish you the best no matter you destination.
Happy new year.

[Bunzee]

because gender is not black and white, 1 or 0, it's a gray area. and a lot of transsexuals enjoy blending the line at some point where they feel comfortable.

oftentimes, being transsexual is more fun than being gg.

[Females+Shemales]

Its all about making the most money. Plus free drinks and dinners doesn't hurt either.


he clearly cared more for my cock

Not that there's anything wrong with that!

[amberskyi]

For me there is

[BellaBellucci]

Its all about making the most money. Plus free drinks and dinners doesn't hurt either.

Not that there's anything wrong with that!

Jamie Foxx featuring T-Pain - Blame It ft. T-Pain - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfjtpp90lu8)

~BB~

[Remy757Photog]

because gender is not black and white, 1 or 0, it's a gray area. and a lot of transsexuals enjoy blending the line at some point where they feel comfortable.

oftentimes, being transsexual is more fun than being gg.

I agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion but regarding this matter, if given the choice of being born a genetic female or being born a female who is trapped in a male body I'm choosing genetic female all day.

[Lovecox]

What's wrong with just being a non-op TS for life? I love and celebrate the fact that we have a third sex!

[robertlouis]

What's wrong with just being a non-op TS for life? I love and celebrate the fact that we have a third sex!

You may do. But a lot of girls don't like their dicks.