Understanding the Dynamics of TGirl Attraction: Part One

[TSLexiWade]

Hey guys! I was contacted by Peter Burton a few weeks ago asking if I would be interested in joining a few other girls for an exclusive interview on "Understanding the Dynamics of TGirl Attraction: Part One".

Be sure to check out part one of the article:

http://sexlifecanada.ca/canada/national-sexlife-journal/understanding-dynamics-tgirl-attraction-part-one

[LongTom101]

Hey guys! I was contacted by Peter Burton a few weeks ago asking if I would be interested in joining a few other girls for an exclusive interview on "Understanding the Dynamics of TGirl Attraction: Part One".

Be sure to check out part one of the article:

http://sexlifecanada.ca/canada/national-sexlife-journal/understanding-dynamics-tgirl-attraction-part-one

Interesting article

[TSLexiWade]

Interesting article



As soon as part two of the interview is released, I will post the link. ;)

[danthepoetman]

Very nice interview. But the particular interview with you personally, Lexi, is even more interesting. It’s very nice to find you expressing yourself the way you are there. And we know see something we knew: not only are you absolutely lovely, you’re also very bright. I encourage everybody to go read this one:
http://www.ynot.com/content/117590-energetic-lexi-wade.html
Really nice stuff! Congratulations! ;)

And by the way, if you don't mind me mentioning, Lexi, Tia Phoenixx also has a nice one on one interview there...

[LongTom101]

Very nice interview. But the particular interview with you personally, Lexi, is even more interesting. It’s very nice to find you expressing yourself the way you are there. And we know see something we knew: not only are you absolutely lovely, you’re also very bright. I encourage everybody to go read this one:
http://www.ynot.com/content/117590-energetic-lexi-wade.html
Really nice stuff! Congratulations! ;)

And by the way, if you don't mind me mentioning, Lexi, Tia Phoenixx also has a nice one on one interview there...

Nice interview full of genuinely interesting insights, although I'd have to disagree with one of her last comments: speaking as someone who's generally more into GGs than Tgirls, (and as a 100% 'top' with Tgirls), I'd have to say that the sexual experience with Tgirls is very much NOT the same as sex with a GG.

Aside from the purely physical differences theres a whole other different psychosexual dynamic going on too

Both can be highly enjoyable, but they are very different in many ways in my experience

[RyderMonroe]

Aside from the purely physical differences theres a whole other different psychosexual dynamic going on too

Both can be highly enjoyable, but they are very different in many ways in my experience

thats interesting. like what?

[danthepoetman]

Nice interview full of genuinely interesting insights, although I'd have to disagree with one of her last comments: speaking as someone who's generally more into GGs than Tgirls, (and as a 100% 'top' with Tgirls), I'd have to say that the sexual experience with Tgirls is very much NOT the same as sex with a GG.
Aside from the purely physical differences theres a whole other different psychosexual dynamic going on too
Both can be highly enjoyable, but they are very different in many ways in my experience
I’m not absolutely sure of what you’re referring to, Tom. I think it always depends, of course, on what you want. I guess I’ll let her answer for herself, but my hunch is, she meant that when a top guy (who only tops) wants to have sex with a t-girl, it’s exactly the same as with any other woman, except for the little extra. And this, in fact, corresponds quite well to my experience. I just want to caress my partner, kiss her and lick her, before, during and sometimes even after penetration…
But let’s see what Lexi has to tell us about what she meant.
With Lexi, what I really love is how petite, delicate and lovely she is. It’s wonderful even to just watch her! Just lovely!
Besides, I think we should be careful not to hijack the thread. I really think people should get to read these interviews... :)
http://www.ynot.com/content/117590-e...lexi-wade.html
http://sexlifecanada.ca/canada/natio...ction-part-one

[giovanni_hotel]

If I'm totally physically attracted to a TG it means her expressed AND unspoken femininity is what gets me going FIRST.

Then the sex is like it is with a GG IMO. Even going down on a TG mentally is very similar to going down on a GG, except the genitalia is different.

If being with a TG made me feel psychosexually like I was doing a man, I would never have sex with TGs.

[TSLexiWade]

I’m not absolutely sure of what you’re referring to, Tom. I think it always depends, of course, on what you want. I guess I’ll let her answer for herself, but my hunch is, she meant that when a top guy (who only tops) wants to have sex with a t-girl, it’s exactly the same as with any other woman, except for the little extra. And this, in fact, corresponds quite well to my experience. I just want to caress my partner, kiss her and lick her, before, during and sometimes even after penetration…
But let’s see what Lexi has to tell us about what she meant.
With Lexi, what I really love is how petite, delicate and lovely she is. It’s wonderful even to just watch her! Just lovely!
Besides, I think we should be careful not to hijack the thread. I really think people should get to read these interviews... :)
http://www.ynot.com/content/117590-e...lexi-wade.html
http://sexlifecanada.ca/canada/natio...ction-part-one


You couldn't have answered it any better...

"...but my hunch is, she meant that when a top guy (who only tops) wants to have sex with a t-girl, it’s exactly the same as with any other woman, except for the little extra. And this, in fact, corresponds quite well to my experience. I just want to caress my partner, kiss her and lick her, before, during and sometimes even after penetration..."

I've had the GREATEST opportunities to interview with both YNot.com & SexLifeCanada.ca and just as said, I HIGHLY encourage you to check out BOTH interviews. The links are provided below; We will also be doing a follow up interview on "Understanding the Dynamics of TGirl Attraction" after part two of the interview is released.


EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEWS:


Energetic Lexi Wade
http://www.ynot.com/content/117590-energetic-lexi-wade.html


"Understanding the Dynamics of TGirl Attraction: Part One"
http://sexlifecanada.ca/canada/national-sexlife-journal/understanding-dynamics-tgirl-attraction-part-one




**PLEASE FEEL FREE TO GIVE YOUR OPINIONS ON THE MOST RECENT INTERVIEW, AS THE EDITOR & MYSELF ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO FANS' RESPONSES**

[giovanni_hotel]

I was surprised by how many of the girls interviewed commented much of their male clientele is looking to get topped.

[TSLexiWade]

I was surprised by how many of the girls interviewed commented much of their male clientele is looking to get topped.

Each girl experiences ALL types of clientele.. Personally, the ratio of gentlemen being strictly tops is about as equivalent to the number of guys who enjoy being topped. At least it's that way here in Houston.. and every other city I've had the opportunity to visit.

[dezz]

it is good to see more people are willing to accept that human sexuality is much more fluid and dynamic than bi/gay/straight. the majority of people i knew back in texas didn't necessarily feel this way, even my lgbt friends, which can lead to a lot of self doubt. The male form isn't necessarily attractive to me, but if I'm in a club having fun and someone can dance I'm not going to run away just because they're a man that's how you miss out on free drinks (I am much more selective about dancing with men though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). it seems like we're always to accept the dynamism of the human being until it comes to their sexuality

[LongTom101]

thats interesting. like what?

Again I'm purely speaking for myself and my tastes which may coincide at times with others and on the other hand may not coincide at all; with that in mind, here goes.

With GGs I'm hugely turned on by penetrative sex, and in a variety of positions.

With a sexy GG I often have that deep, pit of the stomach, lump in the throat hunger of absolutely hankering to fuck her.

With Tgirls its almost never about the penetration, and the thought of penetrative sex with a Tgirl only very, very occasionally turns me on.

And when it does happen, I generally find penetrative sex with a TG a bit of a chore, hard work even, whereas with GGs its usually easy and flowing, effortless on a really good day.

With Tgirls, for me its far more about mutual oral and mutual masturbation, 'heavy petting', and theres also the kinky or exotic aspect of them too that turns me on.

There are also the more obvious physical differences of different genitalia, and the fact that Tgirls generally tend to be stronger, taller, heavier, more sinewy and muscular and more solid all over than GGs.

As for the psychosexual aspects I spoke of, as most on here know, all human beings, whatever their gender, have certain degrees of 'maleness' and certain degrees of 'femaleness'.

This goes beyond mere sex organs and in a nutshell for now I'll just quantify these aspects as a 'vibe'.

I always find the male aspect 'vibe' of Tgirls to be far more prominent and evident than the male aspect 'vibe'of GGs. This just seems obvious to me.

I'm not saying its a bad thing and this isnt a criticism, merely an observation based on my own experience and perception.

And so, due to subconscious?/unconscious?/innate? sensing of this male aspect, vibe or 'aura', I also at times relate subconsciously ?to Tgirls, 'vibewise', on a male-male level, to a far greater extent than I ever have or ever would relate with a GG, and her 'male aspect'.

This sounds quite convoluted and it isnt a straightforward thing to explain, but I hope you get the general idea I'm trying to put across ?

Additionally, I have no desire whatsoever to be penetrated by a Tgirl, and a passive/submissive role for me, within the male-Tgirl dynamic, holds very little appeal for me if any. And when viewing porn the same applies.
Not because I think its 'sissy' or 'gay' or an 'assault on my masculinity', rather it purely and simply does not turn me on in the slightest.

Whereas, with a GG, I'm hugely turned on and feel equally at home in both a dominant and a passive role.

All of these factors, for me, make sexual experiences with GGs significantly different to sexual experiences with Tgirls.

Both enjoyable, but different in many ways.

[RyderMonroe]

Again I'm purely speaking for myself and my tastes which may coincide at times with others and on the other hand may not coincide at all; with that in mind, here goes.

With GGs I'm hugely turned on by penetrative sex, and in a variety of positions.

With a sexy GG I often have that deep, pit of the stomach, lump in the throat hunger of absolutely hankering to fuck her.

With Tgirls its almost never about the penetration, and the thought of penetrative sex with a Tgirl only very, very occasionally turns me on.

And when it does happen, I generally find penetrative sex with a TG a bit of a chore, hard work even, whereas with GGs its usually easy and flowing, effortless on a really good day.

With Tgirls, for me its far more about mutual oral and mutual masturbation, 'heavy petting', and theres also the kinky or exotic aspect of them too that turns me on.

There are also the more obvious physical differences of different genitalia, and the fact that Tgirls generally tend to be stronger, taller, heavier, more sinewy and muscular and more solid all over than GGs.

As for the psychosexual aspects I spoke of, as most on here know, all human beings, whatever their gender, have certain degrees of 'maleness' and certain degrees of 'femaleness'.

This goes beyond mere sex organs and in a nutshell for now I'll just quantify these aspects as a 'vibe'.

I always find the male aspect 'vibe' of Tgirls to be far more prominent and evident than the male aspect 'vibe'of GGs. This just seems obvious to me.

I'm not saying its a bad thing and this isnt a criticism, merely an observation based on my own experience and perception.

And so, due to subconscious?/unconscious?/innate? sensing of this male aspect, vibe or 'aura', I also at times relate subconsciously ?to Tgirls, 'vibewise', on a male-male level, to a far greater extent than I ever have or ever would relate with a GG, and her 'male aspect'.

This sounds quite convoluted and it isnt a straightforward thing to explain, but I hope you get the general idea I'm trying to put across ?

Additionally, I have no desire whatsoever to be penetrated by a Tgirl, and a passive/submissive role for me, within the male-Tgirl dynamic, holds very little appeal for me if any. And when viewing porn the same applies.
Not because I think its 'sissy' or 'gay' or an 'assault on my masculinity', rather it purely and simply does not turn me on in the slightest.

Whereas, with a GG, I'm hugely turned on and feel equally at home in both a dominant and a passive role.

All of these factors, for me, make sexual experiences with GGs significantly different to sexual experiences with Tgirls.

Both enjoyable, but different in many ways.

hmmm.. personally i find your opinions to be pretty offensive. y not just sleep with a guy if you're looking to relate to maleness in a partner? to say that trans women are stronger, more muscular, etc is bullshit... you sound pretty gay to me..just that you're a top..

[asianphoenixx]

Each girl experiences ALL types of clientele.. Personally, the ratio of gentlemen being strictly tops is about as equivalent to the number of guys who enjoy being topped. At least it's that way here in Houston.. and every other city I've had the opportunity to visit.

:iagree:

Hi Lexi...I'm Tia Phoenixx...i hope you don't mind I'm replying on your thread.

Like yourself, I'm also interviewed by Peter and i'm glad we share the same experience about clients who see tgirl providers.

Not all of them come to get topped. It's definitely a wrong opinion if people think that clients who seek tgirls, just because they want to be bottomed by us.

However, it's true that functionally is playing a vital role whether or not a tgirl provider will be successful (in making her clients happy), since it's important for the clients to know that we are excited to see them too.

just my 2 cents,

Tia

[danthepoetman]

With GGs I'm hugely turned on by penetrative sex, and in a variety of positions.
With a sexy GG I often have that deep, pit of the stomach, lump in the throat hunger of absolutely hankering to fuck her.
With Tgirls its almost never about the penetration, and the thought of penetrative sex with a Tgirl only very, very occasionally turns me on.
And when it does happen, I generally find penetrative sex with a TG a bit of a chore, hard work even, whereas with GGs its usually easy and flowing, effortless on a really good day.
(Warning: ladies, do not read this as you might find it a little bit vulgar; it’s a guy thing).
I really can’t relate to that, Tom, but not at all. When I look at a cute, delicate, soft being like Ryder or Lexi, I see a girl to the absolute extent of the word, and believe me, I want to fuck her every possible way imaginable, not to talk about everything else I want to do to them. I want to take them, exactly the way I do any girl; there’s not any kind of difference there to me. None.


With Tgirls, for me its far more about mutual oral and mutual masturbation, 'heavy petting', and theres also the kinky or exotic aspect of them too that turns me on.
A penis in itself is not something I’m personally interested in, not even on a girl, and giving oral to a t-woman to me will be more along the line of analingus and organ stimulation, most of what I would do with any woman.


There are also the more obvious physical differences of different genitalia, and the fact that Tgirls generally tend to be stronger, taller, heavier, more sinewy and muscular and more solid all over than GGs.
That is also something with which I have to disagree, Tom. Might be my own physical corpulence, but I’ve never been with a t-woman who seemed muscular or “big” to me. Some tall girls, yes, but I’ve always love femininity to come in all size and form…


As for the psychosexual aspects I spoke of, as most on here know, all human beings, whatever their gender, have certain degrees of 'maleness' and certain degrees of 'femaleness'.
This goes beyond mere sex organs and in a nutshell for now I'll just quantify these aspects as a 'vibe'.
I always find the male aspect 'vibe' of Tgirls to be far more prominent and evident than the male aspect 'vibe'of GGs. This just seems obvious to me.
I'm not saying its a bad thing and this isnt a criticism, merely an observation based on my own experience and perception.
And so, due to subconscious?/unconscious?/innate? sensing of this male aspect, vibe or 'aura', I also at times relate subconsciously ?to Tgirls, 'vibewise', on a male-male level, to a far greater extent than I ever have or ever would relate with a GG, and her 'male aspect'.
One more aspect that I can’t share with you. Today’s g-women often (not always, of course) seem like they hardly want to be women anymore! Every t-woman I’ve met was very, very feminine, some more feminine than many g-women indeed, even on a deep psychological level…
All in all, Tom, as you alluded to, it seems to me you’re indeed presenting very personal feelings, perceptions and tastes maybe a little bit as something relatively objective, when in fact they aren’t in my opinion. I respect your feelings, I respect your practices, but I don’t think they are representative of the reality of relations between men and t-women in general. The interviews present many very interesting elements to describe them; that’s why I appreciated them so much, for my part. And of course, we have to also be particularly careful about what these women are saying about their own feelings on the matter; and in this case, that’s why I felt happy to see the ladies express themselves very freely and openly, in the interviews.


And since I'm feeling a little like we're highjacking the thread here, let me repost the adress of these interviews:
http://www.ynot.com/content/117590-e...lexi-wade.html
http://sexlifecanada.ca/canada/natio...ction-part-one

[danthepoetman]

:iagree:
Hi Lexi...I'm Tia Phoenixx...i hope you don't mind I'm replying on your thread
Tia, allow me to congratulate you also on a very interesting interview. You ladies, Lexi and Tia, showed how articulate and intelligent you both are. It’s good to have you as members of HA and it’s a privilege for all of us guys to be able to exchange with you on a daily basis.

[LongTom101]

hmmm.. personally i find your opinions to be pretty offensive. y not just sleep with a guy if you're looking to relate to maleness in a partner? to say that trans women are stronger, more muscular, etc is bullshit... you sound pretty gay to me..just that you're a top..

I'm not 'trying' to relate to maleness at all, if you read my post properly youd realise that I was referring to the 'male aspect' always being far more and obviously present, far more than any 'male aspect' present in a GG; its not what I'm looking for nor is it what I'm 'looking to relate to', but its there, within them and i pick up on it, whether 'I'm looking for it' or not.

Your 'you sound pretty gay to me' comment sounds like a childish attempt at an insult purely because my honest opinions and proclivities got your panties all in a twist.

Too bad if you dont like it, not my problem.

I'm not sexually attracted to men in the slightest and have never had any male-male experiences, nor desires, which is what makes the attraction to Tgirls for me so unusual. I guess its the highly feminine characteristics combined with the male characteristics that do it for me.

And so what if I genuinely dont have the urge to fuck Tgirls in the same way that I have the urge to fuck GGs ?

You find that offensive ?

Tough !

I know what I like and what I dont like and this seems like an open forum for discussion for most consenting forms of sexuality and I'm genuinely surprised that my comments would cause offence.

But censor or sugarcoat my opinions to appease others, fit in or be popular ??

Not in your lifetime !

Claiming that Tgirls are generally stronger, bigger and more solidly built than GGs (the key word: GENERALLY) isn't an opinion, its a fact (albeit with exceptions - i.e the bell curve distribution); in the same way that men GENERALLY are stronger, bigger and more solidly built than women is a fact, again you dont like that fact, tough, not my problem, but its a simple truth.

Place 10 average fairly representative Tgirls alongside 10 fairly average and representative GGs, and then tell me (primary sexual characteristics aside) there are no clearly evident physical bodily differences along the lines I'd described.

Offensive ?
If truth is offensive, then yeah I agree !

Am also surprised that I'd find such close minded and quick to judge sensibilities so prevalent on a forum of this nature, and I'm not only talking about a few of the reactions to my post; some posters on here do seem to have strong knee jerk negative reactions to certain things and I've noticed much bitchiness evident too; really somewhat akin to the homophobia that I'm sure many on here will have experienced at some point.

[asianphoenixx]

Tia, allow me to congratulate you also on a very interesting interview. You ladies, Lexi and Tia, showed how articulate and intelligent you both are. It’s good to have you as members of HA and it’s a privilege for all of us guys to be able to exchange with you on a daily basis.


thanks.

btw, you are really an early bird. Where do you live?

It's 8.00 am in New Jersey.

I'm about to take a shower, go to the gym and have breakfast.

Let's rise and shine!

[LongTom101]

(Warning: ladies, do not read this as you might find it a little bit vulgar; it’s a guy thing).
I really can’t relate to that, Tom, but not at all. When I look at a cute, delicate, soft being like Ryder or Lexi, I see a girl to the absolute extent of the word, and believe me, I want to fuck her every possible way imaginable, not to talk about everything else I want to do to them. I want to take them, exactly the way I do any girl; there’s not any kind of difference there to me. None.


A penis in itself is not something I’m personally interested in, not even on a girl, and giving oral to a t-woman to me will be more along the line of analingus and organ stimulation, most of what I would do with any woman.


That is also something with which I have to disagree, Tom. Might be my own physical corpulence, but I’ve never been with a t-woman who seemed muscular or “big” to me. Some tall girls, yes, but I’ve always love femininity to come in all size and form…


One more aspect that I can’t share with you. Today’s g-women often (not always, of course) seem like they hardly want to be women anymore! Every t-woman I’ve met was very, very feminine, some more feminine than many g-women indeed, even on a deep psychological level…
All in all, Tom, as you alluded to, it seems to me you’re indeed presenting very personal feelings, perceptions and tastes maybe a little bit as something relatively objective, when in fact they aren’t in my opinion. I respect your feelings, I respect your practices, but I don’t think they are representative of the reality of relations between men and t-women in general. The interviews present many very interesting elements to describe them; that’s why I appreciated them so much, for my part. And of course, we have to also be particularly careful about what these women are saying about their own feelings on the matter; and in this case, that’s why I felt happy to see the ladies express themselves very freely and openly, in the interviews.


And since I'm feeling a little like we're highjacking the thread here, let me repost the adress of these interviews:
http://www.ynot.com/content/117590-e...lexi-wade.html
http://sexlifecanada.ca/canada/natio...ction-part-one

I appreciate your highly considered responses

Like I said, I clearly presented many of my opinions as subjective, not objective; with the exception of what to me are clear quantitative and qualitative objective physical differences between the majority of GGs and tgirls.

I didnt mean that Tgirls are 'muscular' or 'big' per se, but that compared to GGs, in general, Tgirls are bigger and more muscular.
GGs generally have limbs and bodies that are softer and lighter than Tgirls who generally seem to be more toned, firmer and with more evident muscularity, I'm not talking Scwarzenegger here, but you could say 'more athletic looking' and more solidly put together than the average GG.

You could view the population of Tgirls and the population of GGs as separate bell curve distributions.

Regardless of how 'offensive' it might seem to point this out, and regardless of how unhappy it may make some to have this pointed out, the average Tgirls within this bell curve would be generally taller, bigger and stronger than the average GGs within their bell curve.

Its a simple fact.

Take a small relative sample of say 50 Tgirls representative of the wider distribution and similarly take such a representative sample from the GG population, stand them next to each other, and the physical differences, along the lines of what I described, would be clearly evident.

[danthepoetman]

thanks.
btw, you are really an early bird. Where do you live?
It's 8.00 am in New Jersey.
I'm about to take a shower, go to the gym and have breakfast.
Let's rise and shine!
I'm an insomniac, Tia. I might sleep at night, I might sleep during day time. Haven't been able to sleep yet but I feel it coming. It's of course also morning here, in Montreal, Quebec. I situate myself for fun in the Sea of Sargasso, but it's of course partially in the so-called "Bermuda Triangle". :)

[giovanni_hotel]

Calling TGs bigger and more muscular is IMO defining them as masculine, which seems to be the problem. Why are you attracted to masculine TGs??

Like, in the past I've messed around with jock chick GGs who were college level athletes in their sports, and yes they were fitter/stronger than your average GG. But the girls I knew were still very feminine.

When you describe TGs as more masculine/stronger, you're defining their femininity downward because of how they appear physically.

If a girl doesn't vibe you as feminine, her bodytype or stature isn't going to change that. And the reverse up to a point is also true; if a TG is truly fem being 6'2 isn't going to change that.

I dunno, I can see why Ryder reacted to your post the way she did.
When the most outstanding physical traits a TG possesses to you are those that make her seem masculine, it seems like those are the ones you are most attracted to.

If the thing that stands out most about a TG for me are those traits that are least feminine, I'm not really going to be down with her sexually.

[danthepoetman]

I would add to Giovanni’s comments the fact that hormone replacement therapy tend to melt muscular mass, especially in the upper body. Women’s anatomy is made in such a way that a layer of fat covers a much less considerable muscular mass, which was an important evolutionary factor for the preservation of the foetuses in times of shortages. Feminine hormones will have the same effect on the body. For us, it has become a factor of beauty, those silhouette lines much softer than the more angular shaped lines of the male body. It’s also constantly noticed that shoulders narrows during HRT. Eventually, whatever the height of these women, their body mass is exactly like that of g-women, distributed the same way and in the same, soft, beautiful, delicate shape, which we can witness on any of them.

[amberskyi]

shit i wish i was more athletic and toned. im turning into a fat blob hahaha

[danthepoetman]

Naw! you’re all in lovely, delicate curves, Amber! What a beautiful back curve, by the way. Mmmm! you’re soft and adorable!

[amberskyi]

Naw! you’re all in lovely, delicate curves, Amber! What a beautiful back curve, by the way. Mmmm! you’re soft and adorable!

AH-HA! i knew it! soft is a nice way of saying flabby...jk thanks lol

[LongTom101]

Calling TGs bigger and more muscular is IMO defining them as masculine, which seems to be the problem. Why are you attracted to masculine TGs??

Like, in the past I've messed around with jock chick GGs who were college level athletes in their sports, and yes they were fitter/stronger than your average GG. But the girls I knew were still very feminine.

When you describe TGs as more masculine/stronger, you're defining their femininity downward because of how they appear physically.

If a girl doesn't vibe you as feminine, her bodytype or stature isn't going to change that. And the reverse up to a point is also true; if a TG is truly fem being 6'2 isn't going to change that.

I dunno, I can see why Ryder reacted to your post the way she did.
When the most outstanding physical traits a TG possesses to you are those that make her seem masculine, it seems like those are the ones you are most attracted to.

If the thing that stands out most about a TG for me are those traits that are least feminine, I'm not really going to be down with her sexually.

No no no no no !!!!

Youre still not getting my point !

My posts are all about Tgirls in comparison to GGs

These arent 'the most outstanding physical traits' to me, nor are they the traits that I find the most attractive about Tgirls.

They are the most outstanding physical differences between Tgirls and GGs WHEN COMPARED TO ONE ANOTHER.

My whole point was explaining why I disagreed on the point of 'sex with a Tgirl being no different to sex with a GG'

The bodily physical differences between Tgirls and GGs being one of these differences.

If the male characteristics of Tgirls are what attracts me the most to them then I'd just find myself a guy to have sex with.
Since I'm not sexually attracted to guys, have never been and have never had a male-male sexual experience, nor been tempted to, that makes a nonsense of your 'I must be gay' implications.

My posts are all about the COMPARATIVE DIFFERENCES between sex with GGs and sex with Tgirls, and the GENERAL COMPARATIVE DIFFERENCES of their general physical characteristics.

Also I didnt say that Tgirls werent feminine, I said that everyone, male and female has both masculine and feminine characteristics, both physical and psychological. I then went on to say that, generally, WHEN COMPARED TO GGS, the masculine characteristics within Tgirls are more evident than any of the varying masculine characteristics that all GGs have.

Its all comparison.
Not: 'Tgirls are masculine - thats why i like them'
Not: 'Tgirls arent feminine - thats why i like them'
Not: 'Tgirls are muscular, strong, big - thats why i like them'
Not: 'Oh you must be gay because you noticed these differences'

If this were true I wouldnt be at all attracted to tgirls in the first place

In comparison to GGs is what I'm talking about.

This whole thing reminds me of the shit that hits the fan if youre foolish enough to dare call your girlfriend 'fat'.

[amberskyi]

woman come in varying degrees of masculinity and femininity.some of the "stronger" genetic woman i still find gorgeous: grace jones, michelle rodriguz, and lita hardy.sorry for all the pics,im a visual person lol

[LongTom101]

Giovanni Hotel:

Your point 'If a girl doesn't vibe you as feminine, her bodytype or stature isn't going to change that' is an interesting one, and best illustrates the confusion that my posts seems to have generated.

Tgirls DO vibe me as feminine, BUT, the male aspect (that both GGs and Tgirls have) for me is more prevalent and noticeable within tgirls than it is within GGs. (again - its a comparison)

Purely to illustrate my point with meaningless %ages (purely for illustration - this doesnt represent what I feel are the actual %ages), a GG could be described as having say 85% 'femaleness' and 15% 'maleness' whereas a Tgirl could be say 70% 'femaleness' and 30% 'maleness'. More of the M part is evident in the Tg than is evident in the GG, yet its the F part that really attracts me in the first place - is that any clearer.


Its the feminine vibe that attracts me to Tgirls in the first place, and if that wasnt present then I wouldnt be interested at all, let alone turned on.

However, this 'feminine vibe' aside, there is still some 'male vibe' present too, and I notice that - saying merely that I notice it, and that I find it more obvious within tgirls than within GGs, doesnt equate to meaning that its obviously this 'maleness' that attracts me to them - thats utter nonsense. I'm purely making comparisons.

Its the same as saying 'oh so you notice she has a dick - then youre obviously attracted to dicks - youre obviously gay - why dont you just fuck guys ?'

Any number on here will tell you that its not as simple as that.

[LongTom101]

woman come in varying degrees of masculinity and femininity.some of the "stronger" genetic woman i still find gorgeous: grace jones, michelle rodriguz, and lita hardy.sorry for all the pics,im a visual person lol

I wholly agree and this forms part of my point

[Wendy Summers]

IMO the article is somewhat biased, particularly by focusing entirely on asking escorts. The experiences escorts have with the TG-loving populace is a small cross section of the larger pool of guys into us.

In this case it's a self-selected sample of those admirers who are engaging in an economic transaction to gain what they desire (ie something they can't get for free).

Even if you factor in the personal sex lives of escorts you're still looking at a very biased sample, given the pool of men willing to date them contains self selection as there are simply men who can't handle an escort as a girlfriend.

A better title for the article would be:

Understanding the Dynamics of Men who frequent TS-escorts.

[asianphoenixx]

LongTom, i agree with you. You are just being honest and blunt, and i like that.

It might not be flattery for some of us, but that is the fact.

It's indeed hard for some tgirls to accept that we are actually NOT a woman physically (again i'm emphasizing physical aspects of it), though mentally speaking ,we can be as feminine or even more feminine than GG

[LongTom101]

woman come in varying degrees of masculinity and femininity.some of the "stronger" genetic woman i still find gorgeous: grace jones, michelle rodriguz, and lita hardy.sorry for all the pics,im a visual person lol

and Id say the same is true of Tgirls too

[asianphoenixx]

IMO the article is somewhat biased, particularly by focusing entirely on asking escorts. The experiences escorts have with the TG-loving populace is a small cross section of the larger pool of guys into us.

In this case it's a self-selected sample of those admirers who are engaging in an economic transaction to gain what they desire (ie something they can't get for free).

Even if you factor in the personal sex lives of escorts you're still looking at a very biased sample, given the pool of men willing to date them contains self selection as there are simply men who can't handle an escort as a girlfriend.

A better title for the article would be:

Understanding the Dynamics of Men who frequent TS-escorts.


that's very true, yes the title should be as you just stated at the end.

[amberskyi]

and Id say the same is true of Tgirls too

true but that wasnt your argument was it

[LongTom101]

true but that wasnt your argument was it

What you posted IS relevant to my argument and I explicity stated it as such, i.e : women (and Tgirls and genetic men) all come in varying degrees of masculinity and feminity; they have both sides (physically and psychologically) within them in different proportions and to varying degrees. Both aspects are evident to the perceptive and/or sensitive observer.

That point was central to my argument

[amberskyi]

What you posted IS relevant to my argument and I explicity stated it as such, i.e : women (and Tgirls and genetic men) all come in varying degrees of masculinity and feminity; they have both sides (physically and psychologically) within them in different proportions and to varying degrees. Both aspects are evident to the perceptive and/or sensitive observer.

That point was central to my argument

no your central point was most transwoman are more masculine in appearance and demeanor in comparison to cis woman

[TSLexiWade]

Remember people that these are interviews based on our first hand experiences as escorts & what we feel attracts men to TS women the most - Wendy you are correct; the title does seem a bit unfitting for the interview, but it shows point of views from a variety of ladies on different questions we were asked.

Now as far as being in a relationship, I can proudly say that I have been in a healthy relationship for a few months now & of course he knows as we keep everything open & are completely honest with one another.

Like I said multiple times in my portion of the interview, there are ALL TYPES of men who are attracted to transsexual women for ALL TYPES of reasons.

[LongTom101]

no your central point was most transwoman are more masculine in appearance and demeanor in comparison to cis woman

yes, but this point was central to my argument

[littletwink]

I don't see a problem with liking GG or TS with muscle. It's a feature that turns me on in women AND shemales.

[dabaldone]

IMO the article is somewhat biased, particularly by focusing entirely on asking escorts. The experiences escorts have with the TG-loving populace is a small cross section of the larger pool of guys into us.

In this case it's a self-selected sample of those admirers who are engaging in an economic transaction to gain what they desire (ie something they can't get for free).

Even if you factor in the personal sex lives of escorts you're still looking at a very biased sample, given the pool of men willing to date them contains self selection as there are simply men who can't handle an escort as a girlfriend.

A better title for the article would be:

Understanding the Dynamics of Men who frequent TS-escorts.

Thank you thank you thank you. My point exactly. If your sample of men are based soley on "clients", the data is going to be skewed. The first two trans-women I met were not escorts. My initial attraction was I saw a woman. That's what I'm attracted to. To continue this drivel of "maleness" is absurd. This is a survey as you said od tricks who frequent escorts.

[TSLexiWade]

Thank you thank you thank you. My point exactly. If your sample of men are based soley on "clients", the data is going to be skewed. The first two trans-women I met were not escorts. My initial attraction was I saw a woman. That's what I'm attracted to. To continue this drivel of "maleness" is absurd. This is a survey as you said od tricks who frequent escorts.


When I was asked to do this interview, I was a little hesitant at first. After reading the questions and giving it MUCH thought (It took me 3 weeks to answer these questions), I feel like I gave an open minded opinion & answer to each question/topic.

I, being in a relationship AND an escort, answered the questions with an unbiased view. Not every man is attracted to transsexual women solely based on sex; perfect example would be my relationship with my boyfriend. He was here when I answered these questions & I asked for his advice before submitting my interview.

Just like everyone else, we are ALL human & not everything in life is about money & sex. By coincidence, the ladies asked [we] are indeed escorts, but we also have opinions on the topic of 'Understanding the Dymanics of TGirl Attraction' - Just as I stated in the article, "There is not one reason in particular to explain chemistry between two individuals based on sexual orientation or roles." - Part two of the article contains questions that are going to create an even bigger hype, so stay tuned.

Check out the article here: http://sexlifecanada.ca/canada/national-sexlife-journal/understanding-dynamics-tgirl-attraction-part-one

[danthepoetman]

LongTom, i agree with you. You are just being honest and blunt, and i like that.
It might not be flattery for some of us, but that is the fact.
It's indeed hard for some tgirls to accept that we are actually NOT a woman physically (again i'm emphasizing physical aspects of it), though mentally speaking ,we can be as feminine or even more feminine than GG
Tia, I’m not trying to be flattering. But I just can’t relate to that. Yes, t-women are sometimes comparatively taller. But bigger physically? it’s not in my experience. In fact, a majority of t-women don’t escort, go on with their life “stealth”, and most of them don’t stand out wildly, from what I know, out of the crowd. Besides, it also depends on the guy’s point of view, of course, and some guys, you have to admit (and I don’t want to offend anyone here), are not very tall nor very strongly built physically; I’m sure this makes a difference.
Maybe if you’re talking purely averages, it might have some merit, but averages don’t really mean a thing when it comes to real life, to personal experiences: averages are just numbers. After a few corrective surgeries and a while on HRT, most t-women pass, I would assume. Of course, you have to consider that not all women are beautiful either.
So I guess I’m relating pretty much to what Wendy (and also Amber) is suggesting, here. It’s largely a matter of subjective perceptions.

Tom, I think everyone is seeing that you’re not trying to be offensive. You try to be as delicate as you can in describing your feelings on the matter. And it’s fine: we’re talking, here. I don’t think anyone is condemning you anyways.
It’s the femininity in t-women that attracts you to them, you are not the least bit attracted by men nor maleness, yet it seems to you that you relate better to t-women because of a slight element of similarity in them. That’s fine. You have the right to your taste and opinion. Personally, I don’t share the experience; not anymore that I would appreciate some “virile” aspect, even faint of deep, in a g-woman, would I focus on that in a t-woman. I just don’t see it because I’m totally conquered by the femininity in itself. It’s something purely subjective here too, I suppose.

Lexi, I suppose you must be surprised and happy about the reactions to these interviews! They’re very good, very interesting and deserves to be read! I think the proof of that has been made here, lol, but I just want to emphasize on it.
Once again, I also invite people to go read your personal interview, and that of Tia:
http://www.ynot.com/content/117590-energetic-lexi-wade.html
http://www.sexlifecanada.ca/canada/national-sexlife-journal/tia-phoenixx-exotic-enticing-and-%E2%80%98au-naturel%E2%80%99-tgirl-escort

[asianphoenixx]

Tia, I’m not trying to be flattering. But I just can’t relate to that. Yes, t-women are sometimes comparatively taller. But bigger physically? it’s not in my experience. In fact, a majority of t-women don’t escort, go on with their life “stealth”, and most of them don’t stand out wildly, from what I know, out of the crowd. Besides, it also depends on the guy’s point of view, of course, and some guys, you have to admit (and I don’t want to offend anyone here), are not very tall nor very strongly built physically; I’m sure this makes a difference.
Maybe if you’re talking purely averages, it might have some merit, but averages don’t really mean a thing when it comes to real life, to personal experiences: averages are just numbers. After a few corrective surgeries and a while on HRT, most t-women pass, I would assume. Of course, you have to consider that not all women are beautiful either.
So I guess I’m relating pretty much to what Wendy (and also Amber) is suggesting, here. It’s largely a matter of subjective perceptions.



Let me share my personal opinion to make it clear(er)

I feel like a giant, every time i go back to Jakarta or to any Asian country.
I'm 5'8" (173 cm) and about 135 pounds now or 62 kg ( a few pounds heavier, blamed to winter time). My shoulder is at least half an inch wider than average Asian woman, as a matter of fact, i never see any asian GG who is more athletic than me.

But here I'm in the western world...i feel sexy and beautiful as Adriana Lima...men keep coming to my room so i will be as rich as Madonna soon LOL (joke!)
Why?
Because the men compare me to caucasian women...and for their standard..i'm a sex bomb, an exotic one!

Good for me, but it's definitely NOT a fair comparison, because they are comparing apple with orange.

I'm definitely taller, more muscular, way more athletic than average Asian woman. Let's face it....this is real life

good night!

[asianphoenixx]

check this pic below, just look at how long my legs and how wide is my shoulder, not even mentioning my muscle tone

Beauty is on the eye of beholder.

I'm glad..i'm here in USA..not in Japan! Yeah!!!!

[danthepoetman]

You're an outstanding beauty, Tia!! ;)

I understand what you mean. And maybe indeed your personal case is not representative. But I look at you, and you're so delicate! Same thing with Amber, for instance, she's all soft and supple; so lovely!
I think another very subjective factor that comes into play, here, is the fact that you ladies (t or g) are NEVER satisfied with your look, no matter how incredibly lovely you are... :)

[NoahNomad]

I find it very interesting that a ts woman would say she is not a woman physically and I find it quite bizarre that she would point out what she considers to be "masculine" features on her body. I don't quite get that, but in my opinion that seems to be a defense mechanism; embracing what you believe other's see as masculine or male features because you are a transsexual and you don't see yourself as a "real woman".

I personally don't know any ts woman who would say anything close to that.

As far as the original comment that ts women offer a male-male connection...that is complete bullshit. If you often find yourself in bed with big, burly, muscular ts women then you have to ask yourself why. Assuming that most ts women are built that way is completely ignorant and deflective of your own personal preference.


I wonder, what kind of gg women are you dating/fucking? Are they big, burly, muscular women too?

I am dating a ts woman, and she has the softest, creamiest skin you could imagine. Her legs are long and smooth, her body is toned and sexy. She's fit with the perfect curves and a dream in the bedroom. That is my personal preference for all women I'd want to be in a relationship with, let alone sleep with. Many photo's posted on HA discredit your bizarre claims about ts women and their bodies. You're pretty offensive with your blanketed observations.

[LongTom101]

I find it very interesting that a ts woman would say she is not a woman physically and I find it quite bizarre that she would point out what she considers to be "masculine" features on her body. I don't quite get that, but in my opinion that seems to be a defense mechanism; embracing what you believe other's see as masculine or male features because you are a transsexual and you don't see yourself as a "real woman".

I personally don't know any ts woman who would say anything close to that.

As far as the original comment that ts women offer a male-male connection...that is complete bullshit. If you often find yourself in bed with big, burly, muscular ts women then you have to ask yourself why. Assuming that most ts women are built that way is completely ignorant and deflective of your own personal preference.


I wonder, what kind of gg women are you dating/fucking? Are they big, burly, muscular women too?

I am dating a ts woman, and she has the softest, creamiest skin you could imagine. Her legs are long and smooth, her body is toned and sexy. She's fit with the perfect curves and a dream in the bedroom. That is my personal preference for all women I'd want to be in a relationship with, let alone sleep with. Many photo's posted on HA discredit your bizarre claims about ts women and their bodies. You're pretty offensive with your blanketed observations.

Read my post properly before you post this crap

idiot

[LongTom101]

Thank you thank you thank you. My point exactly. If your sample of men are based soley on "clients", the data is going to be skewed. The first two trans-women I met were not escorts. My initial attraction was I saw a woman. That's what I'm attracted to. To continue this drivel of "maleness" is absurd. This is a survey as you said od tricks who frequent escorts.

Drivel ?

Then the word 'passable' that is so often used on this forum in relation to Tgirls, is completely redundant ?

I've noticed Terry Grooby himself use this word on this forum time and again, and nobody bats an eyelid.

You, and evidently others on here too, are firmly in denial

[NoahNomad]

Read my post properly before you post this crap

idiot
QUOTE: ["I always find the male aspect 'vibe' of Tgirls to be far more prominent and evident than the male aspect 'vibe'of GGs. This just seems obvious to me."]

This is a product of mysoginy and transphobia. You know that transwomen were determined "male" at birth, so you will always associate a certain amount of male attributes to their physical and psychological being no matter how feminine and passable they are. I'm sure you assign this "maleness" to cisgender women who have stronger, more developed features than YOU, which is probably not an accurate, full measure of what it is to be male.

Seems to me that this little idea about "maleness" in women you've created is the perfect insulation for your sexual psychosis.

Put 5 white gg's and 5 white tgirls, all aged 25, in separate lineups and let's compare. That's basically what would need to happen, right?

[LongTom101]

Tia, I’m not trying to be flattering.
Tom, I think everyone is seeing that you’re not trying to be offensive. You try to be as delicate as you can in describing your feelings on the matter. And it’s fine: we’re talking, here. I don’t think anyone is condemning you anyways.
It’s the femininity in t-women that attracts you to them, you are not the least bit attracted by men nor maleness, yet it seems to you that you relate better to t-women because f a slight element of similarity in them. That’s fine. You have the right to your taste and opinion. Personally, I don’t share the experience; not anymore that I would appreciate some “virile” aspect, even faint of deep, in a g-woman, would I focus on that in a t-woman. I just don’t see it because I’m totally conquered by the femininity in itself. It’s something purely subjective here too, I suppose.



You and asianphoenixx seem to get what I'm talking about more than any of the other posters whove commented, who seem to have this knee-jerk negative reaction, put 2 and 2 together and come up with 53 !

However you still dont seem to understand the difference between 'noticing' something and 'focusing' on it

I 'notice' a maleness aspect of Tgirls, but I dont 'focus' on that aspect

Theres an obvious difference

Just because I point this aspect out doesnt mean I focus or fixate on it, nor does it mean that that aspect is what I find attractive.

Far too much conclusion jumping going on here

Also nowhere did I state that 'i relate better to Tgirls because of the male aspect' ??!!

And just to clear a few things up, my taste in GGs is similar to my taste in Tgirls: petite, small build, very feminine and soft features with boobs and a round ass

I find Asian GGs to be the most sexually desirable women in the world and the same goes for Tgirls too

Asian Tgirls, especially Thai, on the whole to me look the most feminine, the most beautiful, the smallest build and the sexiest, and that is why I find them by far the most attractive.

All this jumping to the conclusion that I must find myself in bed with big muscular TGs is just plain silly, purely because I mentioned that I NOTICE the apparent male characteristics of Tgirls that are present alongside and blended with their feminine characteristics.

'Notice' is a world away from 'focus on' or 'fixate on'.

Seems a good number on here are heavily in denial when simply pointing out the obvious results in such indignation (this doesnt apply to you though Dan and I fully appreciate that you are one of a few who took the time to read my posts properly before commenting ;) )

[LongTom101]

QUOTE: ["I always find the male aspect 'vibe' of Tgirls to be far more prominent and evident than the male aspect 'vibe'of GGs. This just seems obvious to me."]

This is a product of mysoginy and transphobia. You know that transwomen were determined "male" at birth, so you will always associate a certain amount of male attributes to their physical and psychological being no matter how feminine and passable they are. I'm sure you assign this "maleness" to cisgender women who have stronger, more developed features than YOU, which is probably not an accurate, full measure of what it is to be male.

Seems to me that this little idea about "maleness" in women you've created is the perfect insulation for your sexual psychosis.

Put 5 white gg's and 5 white tgirls, all aged 25, in separate lineups and let's compare. That's basically what would need to happen, right?

Yet more silly assumptions and silly conclusion jumping

and 'sexual psychosis' - just laughable !

Its very often easy to tell the difference between a transgender woman and a genetic woman without 'knowing their gender determination at birth'

Perhaps not from looks alone, but the combination of a few telltale physical traits and then the way she moves, walks and talks it often becomes apparent.

If this isnt true then why is the word 'passable' so often used in reference to Tgirls, and an acceptable term too, amongst Tgirls and their admirers ?

Everyone, both male, female and transgender has varying degrees of both masculine and feminine features and characteristics about them - its a simple fact and has nothing at all to do with 'creating insulation for sexual psychosis'.

Stop living in denial, and then maybe hearing simple truths wont cause you to get your knickers in such a twist that it causes you to utter such unqualified and baseless psychobabble.

[TSLexiWade]

Bump!

[Dilard]

Good question


If someone asked me that question three years ago, my answer would of been the standard "Archie Bunker" response: a man that is attracted to a transsexual is homosexual, next question. This got me to reflect on how I found myself on this website reading this post. I'm sure there are many reasons why men are attracted to transsexuals, this is my story and I'm sticking to it. “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.” (Nietzsche) About four years ago two events happened in my life; I was diagnosed with a serious medical condition and was entering the fourth quarter of the game. At that point I made a decision to put as many points on the board as possible and began what is referred to as" the hobby".

. As stated by another writer all of my experience with transsexuals is in the pay for play arena so it is somewhat limited... Participating in the hobby I would do my due diligence; read reviews to ensure safe and quality encounters. The majority of the research took place on TER which has as a transsexual discussion board and reviews of transsexual providers. One day when I was looking at escort ads on backpage I clicked on an ad that sounded interesting to me and was instantly attracted to the visual presentation of the provider, then I read the text, the provider was transsexual. I instantly became overwhelmed with a sense of fear, the kind of fear you have when hiking in the woods, in an area you are unfamiliar with, you've lost the trail and the sun is going down (more on the fear latter). I instantly turned off the computer and didn't look any ads or reviews for about a week and tried to forget about the experience.

As time passed I began to read reviews of transsexual providers when the reviews were positive I would click on the provider’s website or Ad and found myself more and more intrigued at the prospect of meeting a woman who was more than a woman, who had become more native than natives. Then I began to read the transsexual discussion board and more transsexual reviews. After reading countless reviews I came to the conclusion that the majority of transsexual providers on TER and Eros were homosexual men with tits who had found a way to get off and get paid .With names like Ronda Rockhardwood, Brenda Dominate, Gisele Driller; text that reads nasty lock and loaded 11Inc thriller, pure pleasure beyond measure 10 inches, reminded of junior high football locker room talk; more power to them.

The curiosity and desire abated for time and then one day I found myself totally obsessed with the most feminine creature I had ever seen, an Oriental transsexual. I had to adjust my thinking and attitude, and began to understand that there were different types of transsexual providers; I was attracted to transsexuals that embodied the feminine mystique in a totally dangerous way.

This process was going on for about 18 months and I asked myself the usual questions, does this mean I'm homosexual, bisexual what the hell is going on. A suggestion I read on the transsexual discussion board on TER suggested that nature doesn't create straight lines and it if you were curious about meeting with the transsexual to watch some transsexual porn. I've never been one to watch porn but I took the suggestion and found myself aroused and intrigued again. Finally I acted on this attraction and made an appointment with a transsexual provider. The experience was more natural and flowing than I anticipated and was positive however I've not met a transsexual who can compare to some of the GG providers I have been with, maybe someday. So what's the reason for my attraction, Nietzsche once said " The true man wants two things: danger and play. For that reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything.”

The fear I felt on that first occasion was the dark danger that makes all your senses come alive, my unconscious attraction knew instantly that I might travel into this dangers part of the forest. The attraction for me is the perfect intersection of play and danger, what could be more playful and dangerous than a transsexual woman,

[bluesoul]

It's indeed hard for some tgirls to accept that we are actually NOT a woman physically (again i'm emphasizing physical aspects of it), though mentally speaking ,we can be as feminine or even more feminine than GG

i think this depends on who you're doing the comparison with: for example, i'm sure it's safe to say most transsexuals more feminine than caroline wang (http://www.damncoolpictures.com/2012/11/female-bodybuilder-caroline-wang.html). the entire is very subjective, but i agree: it's difficult for most to accept they're not a woman.

[giovanni_hotel]

Tgirls may not be born female, but the ones I know are manifestly WOMEN. Maybe conceptually this doesn't make sense to some of you, but it's the only way to describe these individuals once you meet and get to know them.

It's not a hobby. It's who they are at their core.

I think most of us get that transgenders were not born in the body of their choice.
What fucking kind of astute observation is that anyway, Asianphoenix and bluesoul??

Being attracted to TGs isn't just a kinky thrill for male sex hobbyists, some of us are deep into to this shit until it's not just a sex thing exclusively anymore.

[danthepoetman]

Giovanni Hotel: "Tgirls may not be born female, but the ones I know are manifestly WOMEN. Maybe conceptually this doesn't make sense to some of you, but it's the only way to describe these individuals once you meet and get to know them.
It's not a hobby. It's who they are at their core.
I think most of us get that transgenders were not born in the body of their choice.
What fucking kind of astute observation is that anyway, Asianphoenix and bluesoul??
Being attracted to TGs isn't just a kinky thrill for male sex hobbyists, some of us are deep into to this shit until it's not just a sex thing exclusively anymore."
:iagree:
Always felt that Giovanni is someone with a great sense of formulation. Here's a scintillating example.

[Rusty Eldora]

Good question
If someone asked me that question three years ago, my answer would of been the standard "Archie Bunker" response: a man that is attracted to a transsexual is homosexual, next question. ...

As stated by another writer all of my experience with transsexuals is in the pay for play arena so it is somewhat limited... Participating in the hobby I would do my due diligence; read reviews to ensure safe and quality encounters.

As time passed I began to read reviews of transsexual providers when the reviews were positive I would click on the provider’s website or Ad and found myself more and more intrigued at the prospect of meeting a woman who was more than a woman, who had become more native than natives. ...

The curiosity and desire abated for time and then one day I found myself totally obsessed with the most feminine creature I had ever seen, ...Finally I acted on this attraction and made an appointment with a transsexual provider. The experience was more natural and flowing than I anticipated... I clipped the quotes a bit.

Do we all go thru this. I've now seen 4 Tgirl escorts, one twice. With my return visit I really loved deep throat with that 8 inch snake quivering with delight. Next, that snake went borrowing, ending with a serious pounding, our balls whacking together. Real pleasure, and really great to be with and talk to. So far 2 of the 4 were real quality women that looked very female and were really female. The other two were very shallow and didn't seem to be women (at least not yet)

I find a real intense attraction to tgirls, but also to gg's. With Tgirls it is their femininity but also coupled with their hardware and yes I like it hung. I am sure I am no longer straight but somewhere along the band. Yet I don't find any attraction to guys.

[NoahNomad]

i think this depends on who you're doing the comparison with: for example, i'm sure it's safe to say most transsexuals more feminine than caroline wang (http://www.damncoolpictures.com/2012/11/female-bodybuilder-caroline-wang.html). the entire is very subjective, but i agree: it's difficult for most to accept they're not a woman.
This has turned into a whole different conversation entirely. Some people on here know and understand that trans women ARE women, and some people are having a hard time grasping that fact*. It is a fact. Chromosomes do not determine gender, sex organs do not determine gender. You determine your gender identity. Only the individual can say I am male, or I am female, or I do not identify with any gender.

If you do not believe you are a woman, you do not see yourself as a woman or feel like a "real woman" then no, you aren't --- phoenixxx

The t-women I know are 100% women who have known that they were girls, not boys, no matter what their sex organs and society told them, since they were 2 or 3 years old. How can you begin to argue with something that has been blatant and overwhelming since day one?

SO, for those who understand that...and for those who are easily able to recognize the woman in trans WOMAN despite what obstacles they may or may not have to overcome physically in order to present themselves as they feel fit, it is rewarding to have a whole other group of women to get to know and enjoy who bring so much to the table in sex and relationships.

If you like blondes, great! If you like redheads, awesome. BBW's, cool. Transsexual women, perfect. Not all women are going to be gorgeous, or well-proportioned, and some may need to get a little work done, but that does not take anything away from their womanhood and their need and right to be recognized as such.

The reason people get their "knickers in a bunch" is because of how offensive your statements are to trans and cis people who have smarts to recognize your fucked up thinking. --- longtom

[jamiethewild]

Ugh !!!

@ Asian_Phoenix: Am srry but i don't have any muscle like you ( i have a feminine curvy body), not taller like you, my skin is like porcelain, my voice is sexy soft like a woman. I dont have to worry about being clock because am just any other women walking in the street ,so i can see why you view YOURSELF like that or the gal friends you talk to.

"Longtom101" i agree that some TS have something that gives them off however, some TS dont experience being clock what so ever, i dont get clock whatsoever am srry, i havent been clocked since i was 17. I get numbers from everywhere lol

Just because a TS sees herself as woman doesn't mean she's not in touch with reality.

Yet this thread was created by non-passable girl and Asian-Phoenix is pointing out she's not passable so why should these views be valid ?

"giovanni_hotel" couldn't agree with you any better.



I don't see a problem with liking GG or TS with muscle. It's a feature that turns me on in women AND shemales.

I dont know but correct me if am wrong, I was doing some research on men that like muscle on TS or GG's and i came with a conclusion that is a form is submission that means men like you that are attracted to muscle girls might be submissive in life or in bed perhaps?

[asianphoenixx]

This has turned into a whole different conversation entirely. Some people on here know and understand that trans women ARE women, and some people are having a hard time grasping that fact*. It is a fact. Chromosomes do not determine gender, sex organs do not determine gender. You determine your gender identity. Only the individual can say I am male, or I am female, or I do not identify with any gender.

If you do not believe you are a woman, you do not see yourself as a woman or feel like a "real woman" then no, you aren't --- phoenixxx

The t-women I know are 100% women who have known that they were girls, not boys, no matter what their sex organs and society told them, since they were 2 or 3 years old. How can you begin to argue with something that has been blatant and overwhelming since day one?

SO, for those who understand that...and for those who are easily able to recognize the woman in trans WOMAN despite what obstacles they may or may not have to overcome physically in order to present themselves as they feel fit, it is rewarding to have a whole other group of women to get to know and enjoy who bring so much to the table in sex and relationships.

If you like blondes, great! If you like redheads, awesome. BBW's, cool. Transsexual women, perfect. Not all women are going to be gorgeous, or well-proportioned, and some may need to get a little work done, but that does not take anything away from their womanhood and their need and right to be recognized as such.

The reason people get their "knickers in a bunch" is because of how offensive your statements are to trans and cis people who have smarts to recognize your fucked up thinking. --- longtom


I had the same syndrome of being very feminine since as long as I remember.

However, i see myself as a third gender, not a woman. We had discussion about this in the past.

Most trans woman see themselves as woman, not me. I see myself as a third gender, and i'm totally fine with that status.

Check my status, if i have a choice, I will click: third gender or neutral as my gender.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tia-Phoenixx/210906275647702

However, in reality people treat me as a genetic woman, they even do not treat me as a trans. They perceive me as being feminine, elegant and passable, though i don't feel that way. I feel mixed and unique.

that's why we cannot judge the book by the cover.

check out my natural, ordinary pic. I'm not a woman, but can you tell just by my look?

that's the reason i'm all natural and flat chested, because i don't want to be too feminine physically. I love my boyish part too

[giovanni_hotel]

I've noticed more than a few Asian TGs don't always feel as feminine as they look because they're comparing themselves to more petite Asian GGs.
Tia is clearly beautiful, but if being a third gender is where you feel more appropriately defined, I can't argue.

Jennifer Paris describes herself almost the exact same way too.

[sucka4chix]

Um, it is a 3rd classification. No amount of thinking is going to change what you really are inside! I'm know some find that offensive, but it's the truth. You can't invent your own truth. I am so into Tgirls and they have basically replaced GGs in my life. But the are only equivalent not equal to GGs. Subconsciously your body knows this. The triggers that most people don't even realize exist are different. Everyone gives off pheromones and they are not the same for male and female. Tgirls do not TASTE like GGs either because their make up is simply different. You may not notice this or think it's true, but it is. These are some of the small subconscious things going on that sometimes make you attracted or not.

[giovanni_hotel]

What's offensive is when a TG self identifies as a woman then someone comes along and says no you aren't because they have the wrong chromosomes and biology.

You aren't entitled no matter how enlightened you think you may be to define another person's gender identification. That's all.

Whether or not you find someone passable/attractive/feminine is a different issue.
BTW most GGs in social situations wear too much perfume and have recently used soap or shampoo so pheromones really never come into play for most men's physical attraction to women.

How TGs taste??lol I don't even know what you mean.
When I kiss a tgirl's neck, it's the same sensation I get from doing the same thing to a GG.

IMO there's too much generalizing going on in this thread.

[jamiethewild]

Um, it is a 3rd classification. No amount of thinking is going to change what you really are inside! I'm know some find that offensive, but it's the truth. You can't invent your own truth. I am so into Tgirls and they have basically replaced GGs in my life. But the are only equivalent not equal to GGs. Subconsciously your body knows this. The triggers that most people don't even realize exist are different. Everyone gives off pheromones and they are not the same for male and female. Tgirls do not TASTE like GGs either because their make up is simply different. You may not notice this or think it's true, but it is. These are some of the small subconscious things going on that sometimes make you attracted or not.

You sound old scratch CD playing the radio lol

Duh, I dont think no TS is denying the truth here. One thing is the truth and another is identifying as who you are inside. Tia Phoenix sees herself as third gender, and i dont i see myself as third gender but as woman that doesn't mean am not in touch with reality, you sound so naive. Get educated or get to experience alot of TS !!!! I don't have time for this am srry.... This has been discuss before search for threads moron. Learn to respect the way a TS prefers to be call or identify pathetic dumbass.

[sucka4chix]

Respect?? You're laughable. Have a nice day!

[NoahNomad]

Now we are talking about the differences between transgender women and transsexual women.

I'm confident the women who are most vocal are transsexual women, and if they identify differently...like Tia, they will assert themselves and let it be known. The worst thing you can do is come onto this forum and say transsexual women are actually men or place the forced identity of the 3rd gender onto them.

If you do not believe transsexuals are women, stop holding onto this grand idea that you are straight. Stop trying to convince us all that "even though I love sucking cock and taking it up my ass, I'm in no way attracted to men nor do I want to sleep with men. I love muscles, strength, and that something extra but I'm not gay."

I'm speaking to the general public obviously.

It's annoying as hell to come onto a forum where so much time is devoted to determining what's gay about being into ts women, but then you have so many people claiming these women are not women. It's all about the ego. Wanting so badly to NOT be gay or at least bisexual, but still finding a way to make trans women the ones with the problem.

Sorry to say, but most of these women are repulsed by the thought of you. They use what they have to get where they need to be so they can live normal lives as women. Take your confused, bruised ego elsewhere.

To the guys who constantly feel the need to say they are "total tops" --- let me remind you that is a gay term. 'Nuff said.

[sucka4chix]

What's offensive is when a TG self identifies as a woman then someone comes along and says no you aren't because they have the wrong chromosomes and biology.

You aren't entitled no matter how enlightened you think you may be to define another person's gender identification. That's all.

Whether or not you find someone passable/attractive/feminine is a different issue.
BTW most GGs in social situations wear too much perfume and have recently used soap or shampoo so pheromones really never come into play for most men's physical attraction to women.

How TGs taste??lol I don't even know what you mean.
When I kiss a tgirl's neck, it's the same sensation I get from doing the same thing to a GG.

IMO there's too much generalizing going on in this thread.

Ok first of all, I call a girl what she calls herself, out of respect. But identifying as and being are not the same thing!
Secondly, it's only offensive if you choose to be offended. Accept responsibility for that.
Third, I think you're out of touch. I don't think the average woman wears tons of perfume on the daily AND not sure you can mask pheromones anyhow. You don't consciously smell them! Can you smell a difference in male and female urine? I can't. But one typically makes men angry and one does not, studies show. That's not the smell, it's something behind that that your body picks up on.
And finally, I'm not trying to define anyone's anything. My ONLY point is they ARE different than GGs and interaction is different.
Oh and when a doctor classifies a tgirl as a male, he's entitled to do so, not because he's enlightened, but because it's probably in the patient's best interest not to be administered to like a woman. The end.

[jamiethewild]

Ok first of all, I call a girl what she calls herself, out of respect. But identifying as and being are not the same thing!
Secondly, it's only offensive if you choose to be offended. Accept responsibility for that.
Third, I think you're out of touch. I don't think the average woman wears tons of perfume on the daily AND not sure you can mask pheromones anyhow. You don't consciously smell them! Can you smell a difference in male and female urine? I can't. But one typically makes men angry and one does not, studies show. That's not the smell, it's something behind that that your body picks up on.
And finally, I'm not trying to define anyone's anything. My ONLY point is they ARE different than GGs and interaction is different.
Oh and when a doctor classifies a tgirl as a male, he's entitled to do so, not because he's enlightened, but because it's probably in the patient's best interest not to be administered to like a woman. The end.

Your a joke and sad lol

Now your generalizing that we all wear too much perfume and make up LOL

I can tell you haven't experience much out there ...just the ugly ones that wear too much perfume and make up lol

[NoahNomad]

Ok first of all, I call a girl what she calls herself, out of respect. But identifying as and being are not the same thing!
Secondly, it's only offensive if you choose to be offended. Accept responsibility for that.
Third, I think you're out of touch. I don't think the average woman wears tons of perfume on the daily AND not sure you can mask pheromones anyhow. You don't consciously smell them! Can you smell a difference in male and female urine? I can't. But one typically makes men angry and one does not, studies show. That's not the smell, it's something behind that that your body picks up on.
And finally, I'm not trying to define anyone's anything. My ONLY point is they ARE different than GGs and interaction is different.
Oh and when a doctor classifies a tgirl as a male, he's entitled to do so, not because he's enlightened, but because it's probably in the patient's best interest not to be administered to like a woman. The end.
LOL you are an idiot!

["Oh and when a doctor classifies a tgirl as a male, he's entitled to do so, not because he's enlightened, but because it's probably in the patient's best interest not to be administered to like a woman. The end."]

You probably shouldn't say much more. All I can do is laugh at the ignorance that is written with such arrogance. Any respectable trans woman would not be under the care of a doctor who "classified" her as male. You obviously don't understand the process of transitioning, especially with hormone replacement therapy. Transsexual women on hormones are chemically female due to changing the balance of hormones drastically --- to put it plainly.

We aren't talking about men who slap on a wig and some lingerie and post photos online. We are talking about women who were born with different chromosomes than cisgender women. That's it.

So, after you educate yourself you'll probably want to delete your dumb ass factually incorrect statements.

[LongTom101]

The reason people get their "knickers in a bunch" is because of how offensive your statements are to trans and cis people who have smarts to recognize your fucked up thinking. --- longtom

Only thing 'fucked up' is your denial of the sexual duality of all human beings, male/female/trans/cis/whatever

According to your swivel-eyed, knee jerk, quick to judge, ultra defensive thinking, trans and cis people are automatically exempt from this duality simply because they insist they are [insert sole gender of choice].

Doesnt matter what 'gender' someone claims to be, every single one of us has male and female characteristics, and I stand by everything else I've said on this subject

The fact youre so defensive on the subject simply proves the adage: 'the truth hurts'

[LongTom101]

Now we are talking about the differences between transgender women and transsexual women.

I'm confident the women who are most vocal are transsexual women, and if they identify differently...like Tia, they will assert themselves and let it be known. The worst thing you can do is come onto this forum and say transsexual women are actually men or place the forced identity of the 3rd gender onto them.

If you do not believe transsexuals are women, stop holding onto this grand idea that you are straight. Stop trying to convince us all that "even though I love sucking cock and taking it up my ass, I'm in no way attracted to men nor do I want to sleep with men. I love muscles, strength, and that something extra but I'm not gay."

I'm speaking to the general public obviously.

It's annoying as hell to come onto a forum where so much time is devoted to determining what's gay about being into ts women, but then you have so many people claiming these women are not women. It's all about the ego. Wanting so badly to NOT be gay or at least bisexual, but still finding a way to make trans women the ones with the problem.

Sorry to say, but most of these women are repulsed by the thought of you. They use what they have to get where they need to be so they can live normal lives as women. Take your confused, bruised ego elsewhere.

To the guys who constantly feel the need to say they are "total tops" --- let me remind you that is a gay term. 'Nuff said.

Funny how its the only hysterical sounding ranting poster on here who gets on a high horse and throws accusations and judgments willy nilly in a vain hope that at least some of them might stick, who claims certain other posters on here are 'confused' or have 'bruised egos'.

Who on here stated that trans women arent really women (other than a transgender woman herself ?) ??

NO-ONE !!

So along with your false accusations and misquotes, (most likely due to the red mist clouding your undeveloped brain when you happen across the words 'masculine' and 'trans' in the same sentence, regardless of context), you, with your puffed up self important indignation, feel its fine to claim x,y and z are closet gay boys with bruised egos

One word for blinkered, sanctimonious, convinced of their own righteousness, cod psychology wielding pompous types like you:

H Y P O C R I T E !!

[danthepoetman]

Guys, we can discuss without insulting each other, can’t we? Please, let’s just calm down, and use arguments rather than name calling and insults. The subject is interesting, and the arguments presented by everybody are interesting and valid to an extent, and would be much better serve, if I might suggest to you, without the ranting.

Now, transsexualism is a condition. Researches are not very advanced but we definitely know now that it’s a biological condition; people born with a sense of gender identity different from their genetic determination (XY genotype). You could consider it as a form of intersexuation, although in this case, it’s the morphology of the body that’s affected rather than the sense of identity, which is located in the brain, as several studies have shown this far. A deep part of the brain, topping the cerebral upper part of the spinal cord, the brain stem, and pretty much surrounding the hypothalamus, a gland that plays a very important role in the regulation of sexual functions, is similar in women and t-women, and dissimilar in men. Recently, Natina was posting an article reporting the recent discovery of genes that could determine gender identity, in other words, probably the nature of that very part of the brain related to it. We also know of many medical conditions, and even external agents (xenoestrogens) that have a feminization power on males, the exposition to which can be greater or more limited.
As for cases of intersexuation, we know that there are also levels or degrees in transsexualism. The classic case, is described as that of a little boy who from a very early age, generally from as far as he/she can remember, and every witness around, has had feelings of belonging to the other sex; there’s tons of them, and it is often said indeed to start from 3 years old, an age at which it is impossible to consider that culture could be responsible for such “symptoms”. But with some transsexuals, it starts a bit later. From then on, it’s a matter of acceptance by people close by, of the age at which the transition process is undertaken and simply the biology, morphology and life circumstances that will determine just how feminine someone will look at a young age.
Therefore, there will indeed be differences in the level of transsexual identity, in all probability, and difference more obvious in the feminine look, although feminization of the body can be a very long if not practically endless process.
I respect tremendously Tia and also, for instance, Jamie French, who also would rather consider herself a transsexual women rather than a women. I’m not absolutely sure it helps the cause of transsexuals in general, who fight so hard against such social negativity, to be recognize as women, or if you will, to have their condition recognize by everyone. But it’s an incredibly honest stand, and it’s eloquent on the courage of these ladies.
Now, someone who’s on hormone replacement therapy, and moreover someone who already has a female identity (brain), is biologically a woman. She most definitely has the pheromones and every possible biological signal to appeal to the male every possible way any woman does. There’s no doubt about that. And this is what I was alluding to earlier on: when I am with a t-woman, I “feel” exactly the same as with a woman; she just brings out of me all the male protective feeling the charm of femininity brings out of me in any circumstances, the same kind of very particular sense of sexual empathy, etc.
I’ll end this (too) long post by using a pretty vulgar and very simplistic argument. You all know the say: “If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…” If someone has the identity of a woman, even partly, or differently, like Tia or Jamie, if she looks, smell, feels like a woman, behave like one, react and think like one, well, to me, whatever she thinks, she is. And that’s as simple as that.

[castor_troyuk]

Funny how its the only hysterical sounding ranting poster on here who gets on a high horse and throws accusations and judgments willy nilly in a vain hope that at least some of them might stick, who claims certain other posters on here are 'confused' or have 'bruised egos'.

Who on here stated that trans women arent really women (other than a transgender woman herself ?) ??

NO-ONE !!

So along with your false accusations and misquotes, (most likely due to the red mist clouding your undeveloped brain when you happen across the words 'masculine' and 'trans' in the same sentence, regardless of context), you, with your puffed up self important indignation, feel its fine to claim x,y and z are closet gay boys with bruised egos

One word for blinkered, sanctimonious, convinced of their own righteousness, cod psychology wielding pompous types like you:

H Y P O C R I T E !!

You do realise that Noah is himself a trans man right? He is also the partner of Ryder. Therefore he has much more experience with TS women and TS experiences than you ever could. I'm not gonna draw comment on the argument as its futile to argue with people here over this type of thing, I just felt it odd you'd put such a slur on a man whom from my knowledge is quite a large supporter of TS women.

[danthepoetman]

You do realise that Noah is himself a trans man right? He is also the partner of Ryder. Therefore he has much more experience with TS women and TS experiences than you ever could. I'm not gonna draw comment on the argument as its futile to argue with people here over this type of thing, I just felt it odd you'd put such a slur on a man whom from my knowledge is quite a large supporter of TS women.
Never realized that myself. Thanks, Castor!
Noah, I didn't refer once to t-men in my post. I appologize. Hope I didn't offend you...
I would add with Castor that if anyone knows, it has to be Noah then. We should be attentive to what he's telling us indeed.

[NoahNomad]

How do you use genitalia and chromosomes to determine "male" and "female" when it is perfectly possible for an intersex trans woman to have female chromosomes yet outwardly male genitalia? It is also possible for a cis woman to have male chromosomes yet outwardly female genitalia. Sometimes, cis women even have internal testes! A recent example of this can be found in the Olympics, where runner Caster Semenya was determined to have internal testes yet she had external female genitalia.

Ryder personally knows two intersex trans women who have the XX (female) chromosomes but who have a penis. How do you tell her she is not a woman, and if they had been born with a male-identified brain, how could you tell them they are not a man?

I personally know an intersex trans man who was born with a very enlarged clitoris, breasts, AND internal testes that he didn't know about until adulthood.

---

The concept of determined sex is so outdated. Gender is fluid. Gender is a self-determined identity. The only difference between trans women and cis women (outside of basic physical differences that vary between ALL women) is that trans woman have been determined unable to carry and birth children, because of the lack of a uterus and vagina.

It is BECAUSE determined sex cannot be defined by chromosomes or genitalia that trans people and intersex people exist! :geek:

---

So yes, I get offended when someone says that there are blatant differences between trans women and cis women. To say they are generally more "male" in some way is definitely an ignorant statement, that stems from transphobia. There are major differences between latina women and white women, asian women and black women --- trans and cis. It is all in the intention behind your blanket statements. All women are different, all women are unique. Both cis and trans women are getting surgeries to alter their appearances. All women make love differently. All women have different personalities and styles. Some women are naturally feminine and some are naturally masculine beings.

The nature of the entire post after LongTom's comments is harmful, but important to talk about. There's nothing wrong with pointing out the obvious fact that trans women are often times more exotic than cis women because they have more prominant features, but often times we start to get very offensive and disrespectful when breaking down the differences people observe in their personal interactions with t-girls.

[danthepoetman]

The concept of sex is outdated, there isn’t really any such thing anymore; there’s only unique people with their unique sexuality and identity, mm? Santa Claus is also real and we all live in Walt Disney World.
Noah, this is absurd! It’s way too extreme. It’s full of this old, essentially feminist rhetoric according to which culture is responsible for what you become although you therefore have the capacity to choose yourself totally freely. We’re way beyond that today! Biology and neurology have made giant steps and we understand much more what we are as bodies (because we are BODIES, not pure souls; I’ve always been struck at how this feminist discourse is moulded on the Christian rhetoric). There are biological determinations, and those determinations are the most important factors to sex identity by far. The simple fact that we use terms like “intersex” means that there is indeed two sexes, in the middle of which an individual can situate him or herself. Ignoring biological factors in sexual identity makes about as much sense as talking about the sex of angels.
That’s it for me; I’ve said what I wanted to say here. If there’s one place I don’t want to go, one type of rhetoric I want to avoid, it’s this one…

[LongTom101]

You do realise that Noah is himself a trans man right? He is also the partner of Ryder. Therefore he has much more experience with TS women and TS experiences than you ever could. I'm not gonna draw comment on the argument as its futile to argue with people here over this type of thing, I just felt it odd you'd put such a slur on a man whom from my knowledge is quite a large supporter of TS women.

Makes no difference to me whatsoever what he does in his private life.

His posts smack of nothing other than arrogant and self important hypocrisy.

I get the strong impression he sees himself as some sort of gallant white knight atop a charging steed, galloping heroically to the defense of any and all 'perceived to be' slighted transsexuals, with deliberate misquotes, falsities and irrelevant accusations and wild assumptions his chief weapons of choice

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[LongTom101]

So yes, I get offended when someone says that there are blatant differences between trans women and cis women. To say they are generally more "male" in some way is definitely an ignorant statement, that stems from transphobia. There are major differences between latina women and white women, asian women and black women --- trans and cis. It is all in the intention behind your blanket statements.

So far I've been accused of the following:

Misogyny - 'an irrational fear of women, the outward manifestations of which often being disproportionately negative feelings toward, reaction to and hatred of women'

Transphobia - ''an irrational fear of transsexuals, the outward manifestations of which often being disproportionately negative feelings toward, reaction to and hatred of transsexuals'

Utterly, utterly ludicrous and nothing more than yet more tiresome high horse and deeply misguided judgment pronouncing.

Based on objective observation, one can quite plainly and objectively see that on the whole transgender women have more masculine characteristics (to varying degrees of course) than genetic women do.

Obviously there will be specific cases where this isnt true, and its very easy to find such examples, but in 'bell curve general population distribution' terms, you have no argument whatsoever.

As for the 'intention' behind my comments, my intention was nothing other than to illustrate why, in my experience, sex with a GG IS qualitatively different, to sex with a Tgirl, contrary to a comment in the article linked to in the original post.

Others may not share this opinion or experience, and I have no problem with that. This was my experience. Sex with a GG, sex with a transsexual - similar, but definitely different.

As for 'bruised ego', 'misogyny', 'transphobia' or 'confused gay feelings' - totally and completely idiotic BS, and the typically desperate attempted insult hurling resort of those in denial when confronted with some simple truths.

It seems bizarrely ironic too, that someone on a transsexual themed forum would attempt to insult other forum members by calling them 'gay'.

As I said before: 'hypocrite'.

[asianphoenixx]

let me share my personal feeling and story once more:

If i really have the choice to choose what i'm going to be in this world, man or woman or tgirl or dyke, etc...of course i will choose to be born as a woman..a genetic woman.

But I was NOT born that way, so i finally realize is better to be realistic and accept the way I am as I am now, a transgender woman.

and now, let me share my personal input of the infamous hormone, pheromones.
I don't take high dose of female hormone, just a very low dose in order to make sure i don't get bold like my father and my grandfathers (from both sides) as well as to maintain my physical femininity but yet still have my functionality, and yet men find me attractive, especially every time i'm in a good mood and happy and "ready".

So attractiveness must have something to do with our readiness to copulate: when our body is in a great shape...when our mood is good...and when we are mentally and physically ready to fuck (excuse my french lol).

I guess the sex hormone will be at its peak as well? But is it really pheromones that determine our attractiveness?

I'm not too sure about that.

Though i doubt if i take higher dose of female hormone I will be more attractive. Instead, i will be fat for sure.

I did not take any hormone 4 years ago, but men still found me attractive.
Though they find me slightly more attractive right now. I think because i'm more confident and know how to carry myself better.

[NoahNomad]

So far I've been accused of the following:

Misogyny - 'an irrational fear of women, the outward manifestations of which often being disproportionately negative feelings toward, reaction to and hatred of women'

Transphobia - ''an irrational fear of transsexuals, the outward manifestations of which often being disproportionately negative feelings toward, reaction to and hatred of transsexuals'

Utterly, utterly ludicrous and nothing more than yet more tiresome high horse and deeply misguided judgment pronouncing.

Based on objective observation, one can quite plainly and objectively see that on the whole transgender women have more masculine characteristics (to varying degrees of course) than genetic women do.

Obviously there will be specific cases where this isnt true, and its very easy to find such examples, but in 'bell curve general population distribution' terms, you have no argument whatsoever.

As for the 'intention' behind my comments, my intention was nothing other than to illustrate why, in my experience, sex with a GG IS qualitatively different, to sex with a Tgirl, contrary to a comment in the article linked to in the original post.

Others may not share this opinion or experience, and I have no problem with that. This was my experience. Sex with a GG, sex with a transsexual - similar, but definitely different.

As for 'bruised ego', 'misogyny', 'transphobia' or 'confused gay feelings' - totally and completely idiotic BS, and the typically desperate attempted insult hurling resort of those in denial when confronted with some simple truths.

It seems bizarrely ironic too, that someone on a transsexual themed forum would attempt to insult other forum members by calling them 'gay'.

As I said before: 'hypocrite'.
I didn't accuse you of these things, I said your attitude stems from transphobia and misogyny. You are not trans so you couldn't possibly understand why your comments would be offensive and incorrect based off of the understanding I explained previously. I recognize that most guys on here do not understand the transgender identity or the process of transitioning or gender identity disorder. I also recognize that ts are seen as just sexual objects to most men on this forum so there's no reason to call you out on your ignorance past this. It's not about being a white knight in the least, rather educating from a first-hand perspective and a supporter and ally to my trans counterparts.

[LongTom101]

I didn't accuse you of these things, I said your attitude stems from transphobia and misogyny. You are not trans so you couldn't possibly understand why your comments would be offensive and incorrect based off of the understanding I explained previously. I recognize that most guys on here do not understand the transgender identity or the process of transitioning or gender identity disorder. I also recognize that ts are seen as just sexual objects to most men on this forum so there's no reason to call you out on your ignorance past this. It's not about being a white knight in the least, rather educating from a first-hand perspective and a supporter and ally to my trans counterparts.

'Attitude' ?

What attitude ?

So far, the only poster on here displaying anything that could be termed as real 'attitude' is you.

Since you see yourself as an 'educator', your 1st major hurdle as this self proclaimed 'educator' is to develop an ability to be able to distinguish between a dispassionate, objective observation and an attack.

So far you're convinced that theyre one and the same.

And since I suffer neither from misogyny nor transphobia, your self appointed role as 'educator' is ever more dubious, since rather than educate, all you really serve to do is alienate and lose credibility with such heavy handed and prejudiced misdiagnoses.

[LongTom101]

let me share my personal feeling and story once more:

If i really have the choice to choose what i'm going to be in this world, man or woman or tgirl or dyke, etc...of course i will choose to be born as a woman..a genetic woman.

But I was NOT born that way, so i finally realize is better to be realistic and accept the way I am as I am now, a transgender woman.

and now, let me share my personal input of the infamous hormone, pheromones.
I don't take high dose of female hormone, just a very low dose in order to make sure i don't get bold like my father and my grandfathers (from both sides) as well as to maintain my physical femininity but yet still have my functionality, and yet men find me attractive, especially every time i'm in a good mood and happy and "ready".

So attractiveness must have something to do with our readiness to copulate: when our body is in a great shape...when our mood is good...and when we are mentally and physically ready to fuck (excuse my french lol).

I guess the sex hormone will be at its peak as well? But is it really pheromones that determine our attractiveness?

I'm not too sure about that.

Though i doubt if i take higher dose of female hormone I will be more attractive. Instead, i will be fat for sure.

I did not take any hormone 4 years ago, but men still found me attractive.
Though they find me slightly more attractive right now. I think because i'm more confident and know how to carry myself better.

Trust me, you're extremely attractive !

[jamiethewild]

@ Asian_Phoenix
Girl your living in delusional most of these guys are into twinks, fem boys, tramps therefore I can see why they find you more attractive their into the boy look, sweetie. Maybe the reason why you sound so relatable to men is because either you want business or needs more hormones lol

Also I can see why many men in this board don't see us as woman just look at the threads views that rate higher it's the Amateur sissy stuff, Fembois and lastly tramps.... Cock cock cock...with boyish look.

Your an older generation your NOT the young generation which there's a difference between the young generation and older. Most of the young generation just know their women and don't put up with self-doubts BS we know it, we live it and look just like women without losing touch with reality.Unlike you that enjoys being an in- betweener and portrays an androgyny look it's fine it's you who YOU are.I applaud you for your personal point of view.

[canihavu]

Very interesting article. I can't wait to read part 2. Most of what was said was right on the money (at least the reasons why I like them).

[asianphoenixx]

Trust me, you're extremely attractive !

sweet, thanks

[sucka4chix]

LOL you are an idiot!

["Oh and when a doctor classifies a tgirl as a male, he's entitled to do so, not because he's enlightened, but because it's probably in the patient's best interest not to be administered to like a woman. The end."]

You probably shouldn't say much more. All I can do is laugh at the ignorance that is written with such arrogance. Any respectable trans woman would not be under the care of a doctor who "classified" her as male. You obviously don't understand the process of transitioning, especially with hormone replacement therapy. Transsexual women on hormones are chemically female due to changing the balance of hormones drastically --- to put it plainly.

We aren't talking about men who slap on a wig and some lingerie and post photos online. We are talking about women who were born with different chromosomes than cisgender women. That's it.

So, after you educate yourself you'll probably want to delete your dumb ass factually incorrect statements.
If you owned a dictionary instead of basing definitions on your own feeble mind, you could look up the word arrogant and probably see your self portrait. It's so hilarious when people sit at a computer and become so snooty, not knowing who is on the other end. There are plenty of educated fools in the world. Perhaps you are one of them. I choose wisdom. Maybe you should get some.

[asianphoenixx]

@ Asian_Phoenix
Girl your living in delusional most of these guys are into twinks, fem boys, tramps therefore I can see why they find you more attractive their into the boy look, sweetie. Maybe the reason why you sound so relatable to men is because either you want business or needs more hormones lol

Also I can see why many men in this board don't see us as woman just look at the threads views that rate higher it's the Amateur sissy stuff, Fembois and lastly tramps.... Cock cock cock...with boyish look.

Your an older generation your NOT the young generation which there's a difference between the young generation and older. Most of the young generation just know their women and don't put up with self-doubts BS we know it, we live it and look just like women without losing touch with reality.Unlike you that enjoys being an in- betweener and portrays an androgyny look it's fine it's you who YOU are.I applaud you for your personal point of view.

lol. i like you. You sounds smart and daring!

As a matter of fact, i don't give a shit of what people think of me.

I am who I am.

And with regards to sex:
as long as i get laid everyday...i think i will be fine!

keep posting girl. I like your rebellious spirit.

[jamiethewild]

lol. i like you. You sounds smart and daring!

As a matter of fact, i don't give a shit of what people think of me.

I am who I am.

And with regards to sex:
as long as i get laid everyday...i think i will be fine!

keep posting girl. I like your rebellious spirit.

Thank You sweetie For the nice feedback, you just needed a waking... Besos

[sucka4chix]

let me share my personal feeling and story once more:

If i really have the choice to choose what i'm going to be in this world, man or woman or tgirl or dyke, etc...of course i will choose to be born as a woman..a genetic woman.

But I was NOT born that way, so i finally realize is better to be realistic and accept the way I am as I am now, a transgender woman.

and now, let me share my personal input of the infamous hormone, pheromones.
I don't take high dose of female hormone, just a very low dose in order to make sure i don't get bold like my father and my grandfathers (from both sides) as well as to maintain my physical femininity but yet still have my functionality, and yet men find me attractive, especially every time i'm in a good mood and happy and "ready".

So attractiveness must have something to do with our readiness to copulate: when our body is in a great shape...when our mood is good...and when we are mentally and physically ready to fuck (excuse my french lol).

I guess the sex hormone will be at its peak as well? But is it really pheromones that determine our attractiveness?

I'm not too sure about that.

Though i doubt if i take higher dose of female hormone I will be more attractive. Instead, i will be fat for sure.

I did not take any hormone 4 years ago, but men still found me attractive.
Though they find me slightly more attractive right now. I think because i'm more confident and know how to carry myself better.
You present a very attractive feminine image, no matter how you identify yourself. You have physical feminine beauty. That will attract many suitors.
But attraction is a very complex process. Sometimes there are very beautiful people that don't do anything for me. And sometimes I wonder why I'm going home with the girl I'm going with. Pheromones are only part of the equation. Your body is constantly interpreting all kinds of signals. We don't always listen, but that doesn't mean our body didn't get the message.

[asianphoenixx]

You present a very attractive feminine image, no matter how you identify yourself. You have physical feminine beauty. That will attract many suitors.
But attraction is a very complex process. Sometimes there are very beautiful people that don't do anything for me. And sometimes I wonder why I'm going home with the girl I'm going with. Pheromones are only part of the equation. Your body is constantly interpreting all kinds of signals. We don't always listen, but that doesn't mean our body didn't get the message.

thanks.

Let me share another personal story of mine:

I was bullied up to 4 years ago.
When i started this profession 6 years ago, other girls called me a cross dresser.

There was a time, i thought...maybe I was, since i do not want to transform further as being a woman.

only until 3 years ago, for the first time in my life, i do finally realize that for some men, i can be as attractive as those gorgeous girl with big tits and curvy body.

I was in Tunis, 2 years ago for holiday and I made a traffic jam since there were so many men stop their car on the street just to say "HI" to me.

I was in Dubai 2 years ago, and I might be the most popular escort among hundreds escorts in the country including those upscale GG escorts.
Kimber James was there too, and she was by far, not as busy as me.

I was working in Atlanta 2 months ago, and Domino Presley was there and working too. I thought everybody would go seeing her.

I was wrong.

I was so busy in Atlanta and I thought, If I was this busy, other girls, including her, must be less busy.

I'm not saying that I'm more attractive than Kimber or Domino.

What I want to say is: beauty is on the eye of beholders.

Just be ourselves and comfortable in our skin, is enough to make men attracted to us.

just my 2 cents

Tia

[sucka4chix]

Tia, I was at a party in NYC Friday, and as I watched this girl dance, I said to myself "Guys don't move like that!". Some people capture the essence of a woman. Most guys who simply cross dress don't. It is this essence that attracts people to you. You got it!
Be thankful for your haters. If you don't have haters, then you're doing something wrong!

[jamiethewild]

Haters for androgyny lol
Your a joke lol bhahaha ...

[asianphoenixx]

Nobody needs to be jealous.

We have our uniqueness and beauty.

It's dinner time.

I'm going to have dinner soon but let me share you my look 10 minutes before dinner time, taken in New York city, Upper West Side on Dec.2 2012 with a digital camera. No photoshop, just plain me!

enjoy

[asianphoenixx]

gosh..so big. sorry guys. this pic below is better

I'm back from dinner.

Now, ready to entertain my last client who wants me to be a naughty secretary. Untouched pic

Pic taken in NYC at 9.15 pm on Dec.2 2012

Yes, welcome to the androgyny life or tgirl life or to be more precise, welcome to Tia Phoenixx's life

good night

[princesa]

Its very often easy to tell the difference between a transgender woman and a genetic woman without 'knowing their gender determination at birth'

Perhaps not from looks alone, but the combination of a few telltale physical traits and then the way she moves, walks and talks it often becomes apparent.


so are you saying that you've clocked* trans women in public? You've been out and noticed a woman walking by and thought "Oh, she must be trans." ?

Bc I would posit that most early transitioners (late 20s and younger) blend in very well into the average female crowd. Passing is very common among these transitioners. So unless you're talking about non-passable trans women, then I'm not sure what you meant.

If you know that a girl is trans beforehand, then, yes, you will find it easier to pick out these "traits" that you say are "telltale", because you're aware of them. But if you don't know a woman is trans, your brain just sees a female phenotype and keeps moving. You don't really sit and say.. hm.. "her hands are a little bigger than your average female, hm, her shoulders are like 2 inches wider than the average...." etc. Because the reality is that some females do have big hands. Some females have big shoulders. I've met cis examples of both, who personally, were bigger than mine.

But, if you're talking about trans women who are less passable... that's a different story and a hot button topic which I will not open up...

I am curious as to what these "telltale physical traits" are that you mentioned.

"moves.. walks, and talks.." That also goes with passability. I know my voice is very passable, I might even say unclockable at times. Voice is a matter of work, not hormones. It depends on how much practice you put into it.

A girl who is passable can move, walk, run, carry herself, stand, sit, etc. all in a feminine way. I don't really see how one could be presumably female to a stranger, pass in public, yet be so "clocky" in the way she carries herself that she'd be outed as trans simply by that. I know cis women who "walk like dudes", but their status as cis females never gets questioned. So, once again, are you talking about non-passable trans women?

*when I say "clocky" or "clocked" in this post I mean being obviously trans. I don't like saying "masculine" to describe trans women or their traits.

BTW, not attacking you. I kinda get where you're coming from, just trying to clarify.

[LongTom101]

so are you saying that you've clocked* trans women in public? You've been out and noticed a woman walking by and thought "Oh, she must be trans." ?

.

Living in a big, population dense city like London, the answer to this is: of course I have !!

and I wouldnt have thought it unusual that many others would too.

(and dont come back to me with a predictable, 'well you must spend your time looking out for them', because I simply dont)

The bottom line to this whole thing can be summed up in a question:

'If there isnt a significant trait of noticeable masculinity within the general (bell curve distribution) population of Tgirls, then why is the word 'passable' in such common usage, and an apparently perfectly acceptable term within the realm of transgender women and their admirers' ?

I'm keen to hear your answer to this (if certain posters on here are to be believed) quite clearly paradoxical question.

[princesa]

I'm keen to hear your answer to this (if certain posters on here are to be believed) quite clearly paradoxical question.

I wasn't questioning that. I was asking you if you were referring to non passable trans women when you said that you can tell that a woman is trans by how she walks, talks, moves, and by certain "telltale physical traits".

I also asked you to elaborate on the "telltale physical traits" part.

[LongTom101]

I wasn't questioning that. I was asking you if you were referring to non passable trans women when you said that you can tell that a woman is trans by how she walks, talks, moves, and by certain "telltale physical traits".

I also asked you to elaborate on the "telltale physical traits" part.

Clearly, masculine traits are far more apparent with 'non passable' trans women than with 'passable' trans women - isnt that a screamingly obvious question ?

However, masculine traits can sometimes be noticeable when it comes to 'passable' trans women too, but this is, again obviously far less apparent than with the 'non passables', and less frequently noticeable, and again we're back to: the bell curve general population distribution of all trans women ('passable' and 'non passable' included)

Regarding 'telltale physical traits'- see below
(and these are all in general comparison to GGs - NOT absolutes, as in: 'trans women generally possess jawlines that are stronger than GGs', NOT 'transwomen have big, strong, heavy, neanderthal jawlines, fullstop !!' )

(but despite this qualifier I'm sure many on here will ignore it and start screaming again 'what !! - hes saying all trans women are big, muscular, heavy, manly, strong, rant, rant, blah, blah, blah, etc, etc')

So, COMPARATIVELY SPEAKING:

-larger joints (wrists, ankles, elbow joints)
-taller and generally larger build
-squarer and stronger jawline
-wider face
-slightly more obvious and defined musculature
-deeper and stronger voice
-more pronounced forehead
-stronger and less delicate hands
-bigger feet
-obvious breast implants
-heavy makeup

obviously this list isnt 'an infallible guide towards identifying trannies' and separate traits shouldnt be taken in isolation, but the overall effect, of a good number of these traits combined together, leads towards an appearance that veers toward the masculine

im also well aware that many women could have many or even all of these characteristics, but my point was always about a general population bell curve distribution explanation of the physical differences between trans women and GGs, which all came about since i had the temerity to state that for me, sex with GGs is definitely different to sex with trans women, and some of the reasons for the difference were the purely physical differences I noticed - and hence we arrive at here, a list of physical characteristics

But again - isnt this just obvious ??!!!

[princesa]

But again - isnt this just obvious ??!!!

well, yes, some of it is. But the point I was trying to make is that a passable trans woman is just that. If you saw her, you wouldn't know she was trans. So, while she may have some of the traits you mentioned, she passes well enough that you would not see her and immediately think "she's trans".

Of course there are varying degrees of passability. Also, passability doesn't hinge on these "physical traits" being present nor absent.

A trans woman can have all of these traits and still pass with flying colors and even in the sheets.

So, I am also saying that while you say "yes sex with a GG and trans woman is different". I say, how do you know you haven't slept with a stealth post-op trans woman already? Living in a city like London, the chances of that are very high.

I'm skeptical of guys who think they are so well versed in spotting trannies or differentiating the "obvious" differences between trans and cis women.

It's really about passing vs. not passing. Not cis vs. trans.

While on paper the differences may seem obvious, in real life, on a moving human body, they're not always so easy to detect. Once again, your mind doesn't see a tall woman and think "hm. I wonder if her shoulders are male or female". If she passes, then you will take her as female.

The varying degrees of passability are another topic and something to be considered as well.

So while your statement about the bell curve is true, it doesn't mean you're going to know a woman is trans just because she possesses those traits and hence, you might not ALWAYS be able to tell the difference between sex with a GG or a trans women.

[bluesoul]

While on paper the differences may seem obvious, in real life, on a moving human body, they're not always so easy to detect. Once again, your mind doesn't see a tall woman and think "hm. I wonder if her shoulders are male or female". If she passes, then you will take her as female.

quick question: if you depend on being "a moving human body" in order to pass, does that mean you pass? wouldn't this be attributed to someone not really paying attention or simply having an obscure view or distracted view?

[princesa]

quick question: if you depend on being "a moving human body" in order to pass, does that mean you pass? wouldn't this be attributed to someone not really paying attention or simply having an obscure view or distracted view?

not necessarily.

what i meant was, you can see a list of attributes on paper:

broad shoulders, big hands, strong jaw, etc.

but seeing them on a living person, who executes femininity with great ease, may not scream "trans" to you but just simply a female who possesses those attributes (as many females do).

[asianphoenixx]

not necessarily.

what i meant was, you can see a list of attributes on paper:

broad shoulders, big hands, strong jaw, etc.

but seeing them on a living person, who executes femininity with great ease, may not scream "trans" to you but just simply a female who possesses those attributes (as many females do).

:iagree:

i have told this since 5 years ago: it's the soul that makes us a woman, not the amount of surgery or hormone

thank you

[LongTom101]

well, yes, some of it is. But the point I was trying to make is that a passable trans woman is just that. If you saw her, you wouldn't know she was trans. So, while she may have some of the traits you mentioned, she passes well enough that you would not see her and immediately think "she's trans".

Of course there are varying degrees of passability. Also, passability doesn't hinge on these "physical traits" being present nor absent.

A trans woman can have all of these traits and still pass with flying colors and even in the sheets.

So, I am also saying that while you say "yes sex with a GG and trans woman is different". I say, how do you know you haven't slept with a stealth post-op trans woman already? Living in a city like London, the chances of that are very high.

I'm skeptical of guys who think they are so well versed in spotting trannies or differentiating the "obvious" differences between trans and cis women.

It's really about passing vs. not passing. Not cis vs. trans.

While on paper the differences may seem obvious, in real life, on a moving human body, they're not always so easy to detect. Once again, your mind doesn't see a tall woman and think "hm. I wonder if her shoulders are male or female". If she passes, then you will take her as female.

The varying degrees of passability are another topic and something to be considered as well.

So while your statement about the bell curve is true, it doesn't mean you're going to know a woman is trans just because she possesses those traits and hence, you might not ALWAYS be able to tell the difference between sex with a GG or a trans women.

a) I never said 'always', and

b) I never said I've never slept with a post op - I have, twice, and I'm fairly positive they were the only 2 in my lifetime thus far, both were escorts, and both times it gradually dawned on me during the session, but at the time I thought 'what the hell' and just went with the flow, despite being advertised on the agency sites as GGs, and yes it was different to sex with GGs, but the overall 'vibe', despite the differences in genetalia, was similar to sex with pre-op Tgirls, and

c) I never said the list was infallible, nor did I say that the presence of those traits guarantees: 'transsexual'

You, as others are on here, are full of assumptions

(and did I write the word 'GENERAL' throughout my posts in 'invisible' font ??? - seems I did, because every time I typed it you seemed to have missed it)

[robertlouis]

:iagree:

i have told this since 5 years ago: it's the soul that makes us a woman, not the amount of surgery or hormone

thank you

I agree. Self-belief has an awful lot to do with it.

[jamiethewild]

a) I never said 'always', and

b) I never said I've never slept with a post op - I have, twice, and I'm fairly positive they were the only 2 in my lifetime thus far, both were escorts, and both times it gradually dawned on me during the session, but at the time I thought 'what the hell' and just went with the flow, despite being advertised on the agency sites as GGs, and yes it was different to sex with GGs, but the overall 'vibe', despite the differences in genetalia, was similar to sex with pre-op Tgirls, and

c) I never said the list was infallible, nor did I say that the presence of those traits guarantees: 'transsexual'

You, as others are on here, are full of assumptions

(and did I write the word 'GENERAL' throughout my posts in 'invisible' font ??? - seems I did, because every time I typed it you seemed to have missed it)
You seem to be like a guy from a thread that said kayla coxx was the BEST looking TS than most of the TS his ever seen (almost generalizing). Yet, he was from texas and old ranchy place. WOW, that says how the girls must look in Texas.

Know your saying about the TS from london almost generalizing on your thesis ... Are girls from london manly???

All I can say is WOW ... some of you guys are just narrow minded and it is was it is .... stick with twinks and clocky girls you experience with the manly vibes.

Just get over it dude

Agree some are clocky with manly vibes theirs variety. Not all TS experience this am srry none of the list fits me so whatever.... like princesa said "So while your statement about the bell curve is true, it doesn't mean you're going to know a woman is trans just because she possesses those traits and hence, you might not ALWAYS be able to tell the difference between sex with a GG or a trans women." was very valid .....

What you mean to say its based on your experience and your opinion case close.....

On Sex: Some guys (thats are tops) will say about a TS she felt like a woman, she moan like woman, she's flex her legs like a woman, her fruity smell and ordor smell like a woman, her voice was like a woman others will experience manly TS or non-passable.

And

Asian_Phoenix duh is the soul but your an in-betweener, lol .....

[amberskyi]

Ladies, please stop trying to validate your femininity and womanhood to these "men".no matter what or how you say it some people can see us in the light we deserve and strive to be seen in while others can't.
We know our experiences and that should be enough

[giovanni_hotel]

'clocky girls with the manly vibes..'
LOL. Sounds like a lyric from a Lou Reed tune.

[LongTom101]

You seem to be like a guy from a thread that said kayla coxx was the BEST looking TS than most of the TS his ever seen (almost generalizing). Yet, he was from texas and old ranchy place. WOW, that says how the girls must look in Texas.



Nope not me

For me, the best looking TS's I've ever seen are all Asian

May
http://asiangirlsurprise.com/wp-content/images/asiants/ladyboyass2.jpg

Max
http://tsdreamland.com/wp-content/images/ladyboyxxx/max203lg.jpg

Chompoo
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vbL_Lm6o7pE/TdNnMkmAWUI/AAAAAAAAABA/v3rPX0T6QWk/s1600/Chompoo%2B-%2B12.04.2010.wmv_snapshot_02.20_%25255B2011.05.18 _01.27.59%25255D.jpg

HungHelen
http://www.hotladyboysexposed.com/pictures/hung-helen.jpg

LongMint
http://sortapundit.typepad.com/Images/Long-Mint-leather-corset.jpg



Know your saying about the TS from london almost generalizing on your thesis ... Are girls from london manly???


Not especially
I wouldnt think London is that different to any other major (non Asian) city when it comes to the general TS population.



All I can say is WOW ... some of you guys are just narrow minded and it is was it is .... stick with twinks and clocky girls you experience with the manly vibes.



I generally 'stick' with GGs.

Never been with a 'twink' or any guy for that matter.

The trans women I have been with were very feminine, yet its inescapable that (non genital) masculine qualities were also evident, right there too, alongside the feminine characteristics.

Saying that trans women dont have masculine characteristics is a simple lie (regardless of how feminine they are), just as its a simple lie to deny that even the most most feminine of GGs also have at least a few traits that could be deemed 'masculine'.

Everyone, male, female, trans, has both masculine and feminine characteristics to some degree - simple biology, simple biochemistry, simple psychology

Trans women on the whole have more of those masculine traits mixed in with the feminine than GGs do, on the whole, regardless of how feminine (or otherwise) they are.

Simple fact.

You get over it.



Just get over it dude



Get over what ?

Posters on here with 'bruised egos' (to quote somebody else in denial) cant help but make wild assumptions - clearly youre no different - I'm simply and calmly replying to all the knee-jerk nonsense my original post generated



Agree some are clocky with manly vibes theirs variety. Not all TS experience this am srry none of the list fits me so whatever.... like princesa said "So while your statement about the bell curve is true, it doesn't mean you're going to know a woman is trans just because she possesses those traits and hence, you might not ALWAYS be able to tell the difference between sex with a GG or a trans women." was very valid .....



Didnt say 'ALL'
Didnt say 'ALWAYS'

Of course there will be much variety within the range, and there will be many, many exceptions, but the overall trends are inescapably true



What you mean to say its based on your experience and your opinion case close.....


Er, no, objectively, its a simple fact that a representative small sample population of transgender women will have more masculine characteristics on the whole and within the group as a whole, when compared to a representative small sample population of GGs. Case closed !!

Now, you get over it

Whether you like it or not, and barring individual differences, overall, this is an inescapable truth



On Sex: Some guys (thats are tops) will say about a TS she felt like a woman, she moan like woman, she's flex her legs like a woman, her fruity smell and ordor smell like a woman, her voice was like a woman others will experience manly TS or non-passable.



Of course, others will have different experiences, others have different tastes, others have different sexualities, this is a complex issue. I wasnt speaking for all men when posting on my experience with trans women, and at no point did I say I was speaking for all men.

My experience was that sex with trans women was significantly different to sex with GGs, and so what ?

Now you get over it.

[MrsKellyPierce]

To me it's simple:

Men are attracted to ts cause of the femininity/looks and men play with their peckers and obsess about it from the time they are babies...

They see a hot girl and are curious what it does and want to see how it works...

Plus they know for sure they ts is pleasured when she shoots her cum...

There is no guess work if she had an orgasm or not..

That's just my opinion...

Men that are into ts love beautiful women of course, but have cock envy...

But the ones that are bisexual and would go both ways care less about looks and more about hardness/length typically and/or maybe they are big boob lovers and that sets them off too...less about looks

[dabaldone]

To me it's simple:

Men are attracted to ts cause of the femininity/looks and men play with their peckers and obsess about it from the time they are babies...

They see a hot girl and are curious what it does and want to see how it works...

Plus they know for sure they ts is pleasured when she shoots her cum...

There is no guess work if she had an orgasm or not..

That's just my opinion...

Men that are into ts love beautiful women of course, but have cock envy...

But the ones that are bisexual and would go both ways care less about looks and more about hardness/length typically and/or maybe they are big boob lovers and that sets them off too...less about looks

I love Kelly! Her answers to topics like these are simple and on point!

[jamiethewild]

Nope not me

For me, the best looking TS's I've ever seen are all Asian

May
http://asiangirlsurprise.com/wp-content/images/asiants/ladyboyass2.jpg

Max
http://tsdreamland.com/wp-content/images/ladyboyxxx/max203lg.jpg

Chompoo
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vbL_Lm6o7pE/TdNnMkmAWUI/AAAAAAAAABA/v3rPX0T6QWk/s1600/Chompoo%2B-%2B12.04.2010.wmv_snapshot_02.20_%25255B2011.05.18 _01.27.59%25255D.jpg

HungHelen
http://www.hotladyboysexposed.com/pictures/hung-helen.jpg

LongMint
http://sortapundit.typepad.com/Images/Long-Mint-leather-corset.jpg



Not especially
I wouldnt think London is that different to any other major (non Asian) city when it comes to the general TS population.



I generally 'stick' with GGs.

Never been with a 'twink' or any guy for that matter.

The trans women I have been with were very feminine, yet its inescapable that (non genital) masculine qualities were also evident, right there too, alongside the feminine characteristics.

Saying that trans women dont have masculine characteristics is a simple lie (regardless of how feminine they are), just as its a simple lie to deny that even the most most feminine of GGs also have at least a few traits that could be deemed 'masculine'.

Everyone, male, female, trans, has both masculine and feminine characteristics to some degree - simple biology, simple biochemistry, simple psychology

Trans women on the whole have more of those masculine traits mixed in with the feminine than GGs do, on the whole, regardless of how feminine (or otherwise) they are.

Simple fact.

You get over it.



Get over what ?

Posters on here with 'bruised egos' (to quote somebody else in denial) cant help but make wild assumptions - clearly youre no different - I'm simply and calmly replying to all the knee-jerk nonsense my original post generated



Didnt say 'ALL'
Didnt say 'ALWAYS'

Of course there will be much variety within the range, and there will be many, many exceptions, but the overall trends are inescapably true



Er, no, objectively, its a simple fact that a representative small sample population of transgender women will have more masculine characteristics on the whole and within the group as a whole, when compared to a representative small sample population of GGs. Case closed !!

Now, you get over it

Whether you like it or not, and barring individual differences, overall, this is an inescapable truth



Of course, others will have different experiences, others have different tastes, others have different sexualities, this is a complex issue. I wasnt speaking for all men when posting on my experience with trans women, and at no point did I say I was speaking for all men.

My experience was that sex with trans women was significantly different to sex with GGs, and so what ?

Now you get over it.

I was over it alongggg time. Jackass

Your thesis has a narrow-minded, transphobia and misogyny on it. You have issues... go do therapy.

Maybe stop experiencing HungAngels pictures too much because i see where your thesis comes from.

Nobody here is denying nothing ....... Its very clear in both of our heads that the anatomies from male and female are different, yet you seem to miss what "princesa" told you which was a very valid point.

Maybe i should call you longtomthedickhead101

Now Honey get over iiiitttt !!!!!!!!

[LongTom101]

I was over it alongggg time. Jackass

Your thesis has a narrow-minded, transphobia and misogyny on it. You have issues... go do therapy.

Maybe stop experiencing HungAngels pictures too much because i see where your thesis comes from.

Nobody here is denying nothing ....... Its very clear in both of our heads that the anatomies from male and female are different, yet you seem to miss what "princesa" told you which was a very valid point.

Maybe i should call you longtomthedickhead101

Now Honey get over iiiitttt !!!!!!!!

[yaaawwwwnnnnnn]

go play with the traffic


:fu:

[princesa]

both times it gradually dawned on me during the session, but at the time I thought 'what the hell' and just went with the flow, despite being advertised on the agency sites as GGs, and yes it was different to sex with GGs, but the overall 'vibe', despite the differences in genetalia, was similar to sex with pre-op Tgirls,

LOL, did you ask them if they were trans? that's actually kind of funny and awkward at the same time.


On another note, geez you really think you have a built in trans-dar huh?

you're EXACTLY the kind of guy i'd LOVE to trick (if I did that sort of thing) ;)

[LongTom101]

LOL, did you ask them if they were trans? that's actually kind of funny and awkward at the same time.


On another note, geez you really think you have a built in trans-dar huh?

you're EXACTLY the kind of guy i'd LOVE to trick (if I did that sort of thing) ;)

you still here ?

havent you got anything better to do or is trying to convince yourself that youre a woman really that boring ?

:wiggle:

[GrimFusion]

To me it's simple:

Men are attracted to ts cause of the femininity/looks and men play with their peckers and obsess about it from the time they are babies...
They see a hot girl and are curious what it does and want to see how it works...
Plus they know for sure they ts is pleasured when she shoots her cum...
There is no guess work if she had an orgasm or not..
That's just my opinion...
Men that are into ts love beautiful women of course, but have cock envy...
But the ones that are bisexual and would go both ways care less about looks and more about hardness/length typically and/or maybe they are big boob lovers and that sets them off too...less about looks

I disagree. Your opinion seems to suggest that admirers are shallow, inquisitive, fetish-driven, sex obsessed men who would hump on anything with tits and a dick. That may be true for chasers, but that's specifically where I think a distinction should perhaps be made. While the term 'chaser' isn't very well-defined and more often than not is used as a generic insult, I think it correctly refers to the type of admirer who completely discounts common interests, personality, mutual chemistry, and intelligence. Those aren't valuable concerns when dealing with escorts and the like. I'm not attempting to insult men who resort to petty physical objectification while trying to get their rocks off, only to say that there's a difference. Well, only to say that I'm not trying to complain, but in a way it kinda sucks getting lumped in with those kind of dudes. I'm just not the sexually-confused, or everything-is-taboo-and-secret kind of a guy, but keep that on the down-low. I don't wanna be too public about that. Pfft.

Physical attraction is usually the very first draw no matter what. Whether we're talking about TS or GG women; hell, even platonic friendships between folk of opposite genders. Women can be just as objectifying and shallow as men so for many people, physical attraction is really all that is necessary for a connection of any type to take place; Translation: Shallow people fuck a lot. Some dudes just like to stick their cocks in stuff. Nothin' wrong with that.

Personally, I need to know more about a chick than what she looks like naked or what she's like in the sack before I start fantasizing or crushin' on her, no matter how beautiful she is. If I get the sense that we wouldn't get along, have no common interests, have abrasive personalities, support clearly opposing opinions, or if she's just too full of attitude, it's a deal breaker. That is enough to spoil any fantasies I have of her.


Plus they know for sure they ts is pleasured when she shoots her cum. There is no guess work if she had an orgasm or not.Pleasure is the name of the game, and I believe you may be onto something. It's a pretty obvious visual cue that the feeling's mutual. In a way, it's a bit preferable to the enigmatic vagina and the sack of fleshy crazy-bitch attached to it. By-and-by, my girlfriend and I aren't getting along right now, but that's beside the point*.

What's up with all that other jazz, though? Dude's obsess over their peckers? I don't see a hot girl and become curious about the way she works either externally, internally, or mentally. "Hey, baby... I'd quite like to know what your liver looks like". Uh... that's not chill. I identify as bisexual, but I don't like men. Must mean I'm cock-crazy? Say whaaaaaaat? I doubt that's true of a majority of bisexual men into transsexuals. I wanna know where you're getting this stuff. I'm not going to accost you about it, but sounds like they might make for some interesting tales.

*I'm blazed**.
**Blazed as in stoned.

[princesa]

you still here ?

or is trying to convince yourself that youre a woman really that boring ?



you ? transphobic ?

You're right, I just don't see it.

[princesa]

Personally, I need to know more about a chick than what she looks like naked or what she's like in the sack before I start fantasizing or crushin' on her, no matter how beautiful she is.

So you are genuinely attracted to the WHOLE woman, not just her cock. Awesome. :rock2



I identify as bisexual, but I don't like men. Must mean I'm cock-crazy? Say whaaaaaaat? I doubt that's true of a majority of bisexual men into transsexuals.


So wouldn't you just be considered straight? Or heteroflexible?

I feel like saying "Bi" means that either you like both men and women or you like both vagina and cock. But since you're not a cock fetishist, but actually attracted to the woman attached to the cock (probably more so than just the cock itself) then I would still consider you straight.

Because you're exclusively attracted to the female gender, without caring about genital configuration.

How is that bisexual? :confused:

[MrsKellyPierce]

I disagree. Your opinion seems to suggest that admirers are shallow, inquisitive, fetish-driven, sex obsessed men who would hump on anything with tits and a dick. That may be true for chasers, but that's specifically where I think a distinction should perhaps be made. While the term 'chaser' isn't very well-defined and more often than not is used as a generic insult, I think it correctly refers to the type of admirer who completely discounts common interests, personality, mutual chemistry, and intelligence. Those aren't valuable concerns when dealing with escorts and the like. I'm not attempting to insult men who resort to petty physical objectification while trying to get their rocks off, only to say that there's a difference. Well, only to say that I'm not trying to complain, but in a way it kinda sucks getting lumped in with those kind of dudes. I'm just not the sexually-confused, or everything-is-taboo-and-secret kind of a guy, but keep that on the down-low. I don't wanna be too public about that. Pfft.

Physical attraction is usually the very first draw no matter what. Whether we're talking about TS or GG women; hell, even platonic friendships between folk of opposite genders. Women can be just as objectifying and shallow as men so for many people, physical attraction is really all that is necessary for a connection of any type to take place; Translation: Shallow people fuck a lot. Some dudes just like to stick their cocks in stuff. Nothin' wrong with that.

Personally, I need to know more about a chick than what she looks like naked or what she's like in the sack before I start fantasizing or crushin' on her, no matter how beautiful she is. If I get the sense that we wouldn't get along, have no common interests, have abrasive personalities, support clearly opposing opinions, or if she's just too full of attitude, it's a deal breaker. That is enough to spoil any fantasies I have of her.

Pleasure is the name of the game, and I believe you may be onto something. It's a pretty obvious visual cue that the feeling's mutual. In a way, it's a bit preferable to the enigmatic vagina and the sack of fleshy crazy-bitch attached to it. By-and-by, my girlfriend and I aren't getting along right now, but that's beside the point*.

What's up with all that other jazz, though? Dude's obsess over their peckers? I don't see a hot girl and become curious about the way she works either externally, internally, or mentally. "Hey, baby... I'd quite like to know what your liver looks like". Uh... that's not chill. I identify as bisexual, but I don't like men. Must mean I'm cock-crazy? Say whaaaaaaat? I doubt that's true of a majority of bisexual men into transsexuals. I wanna know where you're getting this stuff. I'm not going to accost you about it, but sounds like they might make for some interesting tales.

*I'm blazed**.
**Blazed as in stoned.


Clearly you were blazed..
I don't think I said anything about them wanting to fuck??
And we are all shallow to an extent..we base our attraction at first on LOOKS...we all recognize beauty...to deny that is absurd..

I was saying typically the guys that see themselves as straight are typically about the looks of the transsexual "ie" if she is passable. Not just attraction to the penis. Gay men are not attracted to a transsexual? Why, they look like women? If you put a hot transsexual topless in a strip club and don't show her downstairs men will be attracted to her regardless! It's a fact!

The guys that are more about just the penis and will sleep with men...usually are in it for the hardness/length/girth of the penis and some "Connoisseurs" even if the said person had a wig on and a beard...but had a 13 inch dick would find them to be the most beautiful female in the world at the moment till they cum.

Now I am not generalizing and saying all..I'm saying the majority!

But typically men that are into transsexuals are into them due to looks and the penis of course.

And men play with their dicks from the time they are babies..they are aware of it..they tug it..they fiddle with it..they touch it..they get erections how many times a day...men are obsessed with it..how big it is..how small it is..penis envy...

It's just a fact..just because you don't feel this way..the majority of the men attracted to transsexuals do..

For you to deny that is just silly...I have been living my life as a girl since age 12...been dating for many, many, many years. I have seen it all...when it comes to the men that are interested in transsexuals.

[loveboof]

To me it's simple:

Men are attracted to ts cause of the femininity/looks and men play with their peckers and obsess about it from the time they are babies...

They see a hot girl and are curious what it does and want to see how it works...

Plus they know for sure they ts is pleasured when she shoots her cum...

There is no guess work if she had an orgasm or not..

That's just my opinion...

Men that are into ts love beautiful women of course, but have cock envy...

But the ones that are bisexual and would go both ways care less about looks and more about hardness/length typically and/or maybe they are big boob lovers and that sets them off too...less about looks

That sounds pretty spot on to me... I think Kelly has the right angle on it!

[GrimFusion]

Clearly you were blazed..
I don't think I said anything about them wanting to fuck??
And we are all shallow to an extent..we base our attraction at first on LOOKS...we all recognize beauty...to deny that is absurd..

I was saying typically the guys that see themselves as straight are typically about the looks of the transsexual "ie" if she is passable. Not just attraction to the penis. Gay men are not attracted to a transsexual? Why, they look like women? If you put a hot transsexual topless in a strip club and don't show her downstairs men will be attracted to her regardless! It's a fact!

The guys that are more about just the penis and will sleep with men...usually are in it for the hardness/length/girth of the penis and some "Connoisseurs" even if the said person had a wig on and a beard...but had a 13 inch dick would find them to be the most beautiful female in the world at the moment till they cum.

Now I am not generalizing and saying all..I'm saying the majority!

But typically men that are into transsexuals are into them due to looks and the penis of course.

And men play with their dicks from the time they are babies..they are aware of it..they tug it..they fiddle with it..they touch it..they get erections how many times a day...men are obsessed with it..how big it is..how small it is..penis envy...

It's just a fact..just because you don't feel this way..the majority of the men attracted to transsexuals do..

For you to deny that is just silly...I have been living my life as a girl since age 12...been dating for many, many, many years. I have seen it all...when it comes to the men that are interested in transsexuals.

My disagreement was personal, not made on the behalf of the majority of admirers. I was only offering my perspective. It's just hard for me to wrap my head around most of the ideas you presented as they don't apply to me. I thought better understanding the motives of an average admirer was the goal of this post. I may not be an average admirer, but I do wonder what makes 'em tick. I don't disagree that most everything you've said still applies to the majority of guys around here, and it's obvious that quite a few of them concur. In other words, you're right. I'm just the annoying douchebag who has to bring up rare exception as an example. lol.

[GrimFusion]

So you are genuinely attracted to the WHOLE woman, not just her cock. Awesome. :rock2



So wouldn't you just be considered straight? Or heteroflexible?

I feel like saying "Bi" means that either you like both men and women or you like both vagina and cock. But since you're not a cock fetishist, but actually attracted to the woman attached to the cock (probably more so than just the cock itself) then I would still consider you straight.

Because you're exclusively attracted to the female gender, without caring about genital configuration.

How is that bisexual? :confused:
I guess hereroflexible would be a more appropriate term, but I don't think transattraction is exclusively straight and most of society seems to think straight needs to mean 100% straight. It's just less confusing. Honestly, the conversation rarely comes up; when it does, it's usually once every couple of years when I'm in a new relationship. On the odd occasion that it comes up otherwise, I find it easier to just explain that I'm bisexual. It's not like I'm embarrassed about not associating as straight, and if people act all stand-offish as a response, they would have done that if I explained I were straight but had an attraction to transsexuals anyway. Besides, I'm not one of those guys who longs for a relationship with a transchick and if claiming to be bisexual puts most of them off, it's at no loss of mine.