Paul Ryan's lies

[Prospero]

Distortions and lies are now the stock in trade of the men who would run America and their supporters

Veep wannabe Paul Ryan's so called barnstorming speech to the Republicans last week was jammed full of distoritions about the record of the incumbent president.

The NY times branded the a litany of lies.

Facts Take a Beating in Acceptance Speeches
By MICHAEL COOPER
Published: August 31, 2012

Representative Paul D. Ryan used his convention speech on Wednesday to fault President Obama for failing to act on a deficit-reduction plan that he himself had helped kill. He chided Democrats for seeking $716 billion in Medicare cuts that he too had sought. And he lamented the nation’s credit rating — which was downgraded after a debt-ceiling standoff that he and other House Republicans helped instigate.

And Mitt Romney, in his acceptance speech on Thursday night, asserted that President Obama’s policies had “not helped create jobs” and that Mr. Obama had gone on an “apology tour” for America. He also warned that the president’s Medicare cuts would “hurt today’s seniors,” claims that have already been labeled false or misleading.

The two speeches — peppered with statements that were incorrect or incomplete — seemed to signal the arrival of a new kind of presidential campaign, one in which concerns about fact-checking have been largely set aside.

In recent weeks, the Romney campaign has broadcast television advertisements leveling the widely debunked assertion that Mr. Obama had gutted the work requirements for welfare recipients. The Obama campaign, for its part, ran a deceptive ad saying that Mitt Romney had “backed a bill that outlaws all abortion, even in case of rape and incest,” although he currently supports exceptions in cases of rape, incest or when the life of the mother is at risk.

The growing number of misrepresentations appear to reflect a calculation in both parties that shame is overrated, and that no independent arbiters command the stature or the platform to hold the campaigns to account in the increasingly polarized and balkanized media firmament. Any unmasking of the lies or distortions, the thinking goes, rarely seeps into the public consciousness.

But an interesting question unfolding is whether there is a tipping point at which a candidate becomes so associated with falsehoods that it becomes part of his public persona — which hampered Vice President Al Gore during his run for president in 2000, when his misstatements on the campaign trail were used to stoke the perception that he could not be trusted in general.

In the case of Mr. Ryan’s speech, the jury is still out. It was received rapturously by the Republican Party faithful, but his many questionable assertions ensured that much of the analysis on Thursday focused on his accuracy more than his acumen.

The Obama campaign fanned the flames with a Web video mocking Mr. Ryan, showing anchors from CNN and Fox News questioning some of his statements. And Stephanie Cutter, the president’s deputy campaign manager, was blunt. “There’s no delicate way to say this: last night Paul Ryan lied, repeatedly, knowingly and brazenly,” she said.

Here are some of the misleading section of their convention speeches:

Deficit Commission

One of Mr. Ryan’s most pointed attacks on Mr. Obama was on the deficit. “He created a new bipartisan debt commission,” Mr. Ryan noted. “They came back with an urgent report. He thanked them, sent them on their way and then did exactly nothing.”

Left unsaid: Mr. Ryan served on that commission himself, and his opposition to its final proposals helped seal its fate. The panel, known as the Simpson-Bowles deficit commission, made a number of recommendations that Mr. Ryan ultimately opposed on the grounds that they would have raised some taxes while failing to cut enough from health programs. His dismissal of the plan was seen as a significant blow to its chances of success, since it soured other House Republicans on it.

Credit Rating

In his attack on the president’s time in office, Mr. Ryan said: “It began with a perfect AAA credit rating for the United States. It ends with the downgraded America.”

When Standard & Poor’s lowered the nation’s credit rating, it was in large part because of the standoff last year over the debt ceiling — which needed to be raised so the government could borrow money to pay for spending that Congress had already approved. The White House had asked Congress to simply raise the debt ceiling; Mr. Ryan and House Republicans balked at doing so without reaching a deal on significant spending cuts. The ensuing standoff took the nation to the brink of default.

In its statement explaining the downgrade, Standard & Poor’s wrote that “the political brinkmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policy making becoming less stable, less effective and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy.”

Medicare

Mr. Ryan spoke out forcefully against the “$716 billion funneled out of Medicare by President Obama,” without noting that his own past budget plans had counted on the same savings. And he pledged to protect Medicare without explaining how the Romney-Ryan plan would change it. Mr. Romney said that the Medicare cuts would “hurt today’s seniors.” In fact, the savings would come not from trimming benefits for current recipients, but from cutting the projected growth in reimbursements to hospitals and insurers over the next decade. The Medicare debate is shaping up as central to the election: Democrats say that the Romney-Ryan plan to reshape Medicare would force future beneficiaries to pay more for their health care, while Republicans fault Mr. Obama for cutting $716 billion in its projected growth.

Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan have proposed limiting the government’s open-ended financial commitment to Medicare. Under their plan, the government would contribute a fixed amount on behalf of each beneficiary, and future beneficiaries could use that money to buy private insurance or to help pay for coverage under the traditional Medicare program. It would apply only to people currently under 55.

Mr. Ryan’s earlier plans called for capping the rate at which Medicare spending would grow — which analysts from groups including the Kaiser Family Foundation found would lead to higher out-of-pocket costs for future beneficiaries. The Romney campaign now says that their plan would work differently from Mr. Ryan’s original proposal, and would have the flexibility to raise the proposed cap on spending if it does not keep up with costs.

The $716 billion cut to Medicare that Mr. Obama made will reduce payments to health maintenance organizations and hospitals and other health care providers. Mr. Ryan initially counted on the same savings in his budget plans.

G.M.’s Janesville Plant

Mr. Ryan appeared to criticize Mr. Obama for the closing of a General Motors plant in Mr. Ryan’s hometown of Janesville, Wis. — a decision made before the president was elected and before his bailout of the auto industry, which was credited with saving a number of other factories. He noted that Mr. Obama had visited the plant in 2008 and said, “I believe that if our government is there to support you, this plant will be here for another hundred years.”

“Well, as it turned out,” Mr. Ryan said, “that plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day.”

As a candidate, Mr. Obama did give an economic policy speech at the Janesville plant in February 2008. The decision to close the plant was made several months later — as can be seen by a June 2008 letter from Mr. Ryan urging G.M. to reconsider.

It took some time for the plant to shut down, and some work continued there after Mr. Obama was sworn in as president.

The Ryan campaign said Thursday that the issue was not when the plant stopped production, but the fact that it has not reopened — and pointed to accounts of an Obama campaign statement from the fall of 2008 in which he said, “I will lead an effort to retool plants like the G.M. facility in Janesville so we can build the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow and create good-paying jobs in Wisconsin and all across America."

While Mr. Obama bailed out the auto industry, saving jobs, and included money in the stimulus for “green” energy jobs, the Janesville plant did not benefit from his moves.

The Apology Tour

In his floor speech, Mr. Romney repeated his widely debunked charge that Mr. Obama had gone on an “apology tour” on America’s behalf — an accusation he feels so strongly about that he laid out his own worldview in a 2010 book he titled “No Apology.”

But independent fact checkers have called the accusation a distortion, and it is hard to find evidence that Mr. Obama ever said he was sorry for the United States. Even in his speeches after winning the Nobel Peace Prize, Mr. Obama offered a strong defense of American policies, including the war in Afghanistan, which was growing increasingly unpopular in the rest of the world.



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/31/us/politics/ryans-speech-contained-a-litany-of-falsehoods.html

http://www.daily49er.com/opinion/paul-ryan-s-lies-make-for-a-questionable-vice-president-candidate-1.2755637#.UETqQq7yz9s

[onmyknees]

Distortions and lies are now the stock in trade of the men who would run America and their supporters

Veep wannabe Paul Ryan's so called barnstorming speech to the Republicans last week was jammed full of distoritions about the record of the incumbent president.

The NY times branded the a litany of lies.

Facts Take a Beating in Acceptance Speeches
By MICHAEL COOPER
Published: August 31, 2012

Representative Paul D. Ryan used his convention speech on Wednesday to fault President Obama for failing to act on a deficit-reduction plan that he himself had helped kill. He chided Democrats for seeking $716 billion in Medicare cuts that he too had sought. And he lamented the nation’s credit rating — which was downgraded after a debt-ceiling standoff that he and other House Republicans helped instigate.

And Mitt Romney, in his acceptance speech on Thursday night, asserted that President Obama’s policies had “not helped create jobs” and that Mr. Obama had gone on an “apology tour” for America. He also warned that the president’s Medicare cuts would “hurt today’s seniors,” claims that have already been labeled false or misleading.

The two speeches — peppered with statements that were incorrect or incomplete — seemed to signal the arrival of a new kind of presidential campaign, one in which concerns about fact-checking have been largely set aside.

In recent weeks, the Romney campaign has broadcast television advertisements leveling the widely debunked assertion that Mr. Obama had gutted the work requirements for welfare recipients. The Obama campaign, for its part, ran a deceptive ad saying that Mitt Romney had “backed a bill that outlaws all abortion, even in case of rape and incest,” although he currently supports exceptions in cases of rape, incest or when the life of the mother is at risk.

The growing number of misrepresentations appear to reflect a calculation in both parties that shame is overrated, and that no independent arbiters command the stature or the platform to hold the campaigns to account in the increasingly polarized and balkanized media firmament. Any unmasking of the lies or distortions, the thinking goes, rarely seeps into the public consciousness.

But an interesting question unfolding is whether there is a tipping point at which a candidate becomes so associated with falsehoods that it becomes part of his public persona — which hampered Vice President Al Gore during his run for president in 2000, when his misstatements on the campaign trail were used to stoke the perception that he could not be trusted in general.

In the case of Mr. Ryan’s speech, the jury is still out. It was received rapturously by the Republican Party faithful, but his many questionable assertions ensured that much of the analysis on Thursday focused on his accuracy more than his acumen.

The Obama campaign fanned the flames with a Web video mocking Mr. Ryan, showing anchors from CNN and Fox News questioning some of his statements. And Stephanie Cutter, the president’s deputy campaign manager, was blunt. “There’s no delicate way to say this: last night Paul Ryan lied, repeatedly, knowingly and brazenly,” she said.

Here are some of the misleading section of their convention speeches:

Deficit Commission

One of Mr. Ryan’s most pointed attacks on Mr. Obama was on the deficit. “He created a new bipartisan debt commission,” Mr. Ryan noted. “They came back with an urgent report. He thanked them, sent them on their way and then did exactly nothing.”

Left unsaid: Mr. Ryan served on that commission himself, and his opposition to its final proposals helped seal its fate. The panel, known as the Simpson-Bowles deficit commission, made a number of recommendations that Mr. Ryan ultimately opposed on the grounds that they would have raised some taxes while failing to cut enough from health programs. His dismissal of the plan was seen as a significant blow to its chances of success, since it soured other House Republicans on it.

Credit Rating

In his attack on the president’s time in office, Mr. Ryan said: “It began with a perfect AAA credit rating for the United States. It ends with the downgraded America.”

When Standard & Poor’s lowered the nation’s credit rating, it was in large part because of the standoff last year over the debt ceiling — which needed to be raised so the government could borrow money to pay for spending that Congress had already approved. The White House had asked Congress to simply raise the debt ceiling; Mr. Ryan and House Republicans balked at doing so without reaching a deal on significant spending cuts. The ensuing standoff took the nation to the brink of default.

In its statement explaining the downgrade, Standard & Poor’s wrote that “the political brinkmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policy making becoming less stable, less effective and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy.”

Medicare

Mr. Ryan spoke out forcefully against the “$716 billion funneled out of Medicare by President Obama,” without noting that his own past budget plans had counted on the same savings. And he pledged to protect Medicare without explaining how the Romney-Ryan plan would change it. Mr. Romney said that the Medicare cuts would “hurt today’s seniors.” In fact, the savings would come not from trimming benefits for current recipients, but from cutting the projected growth in reimbursements to hospitals and insurers over the next decade. The Medicare debate is shaping up as central to the election: Democrats say that the Romney-Ryan plan to reshape Medicare would force future beneficiaries to pay more for their health care, while Republicans fault Mr. Obama for cutting $716 billion in its projected growth.

Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan have proposed limiting the government’s open-ended financial commitment to Medicare. Under their plan, the government would contribute a fixed amount on behalf of each beneficiary, and future beneficiaries could use that money to buy private insurance or to help pay for coverage under the traditional Medicare program. It would apply only to people currently under 55.

Mr. Ryan’s earlier plans called for capping the rate at which Medicare spending would grow — which analysts from groups including the Kaiser Family Foundation found would lead to higher out-of-pocket costs for future beneficiaries. The Romney campaign now says that their plan would work differently from Mr. Ryan’s original proposal, and would have the flexibility to raise the proposed cap on spending if it does not keep up with costs.

The $716 billion cut to Medicare that Mr. Obama made will reduce payments to health maintenance organizations and hospitals and other health care providers. Mr. Ryan initially counted on the same savings in his budget plans.

G.M.’s Janesville Plant

Mr. Ryan appeared to criticize Mr. Obama for the closing of a General Motors plant in Mr. Ryan’s hometown of Janesville, Wis. — a decision made before the president was elected and before his bailout of the auto industry, which was credited with saving a number of other factories. He noted that Mr. Obama had visited the plant in 2008 and said, “I believe that if our government is there to support you, this plant will be here for another hundred years.”

“Well, as it turned out,” Mr. Ryan said, “that plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day.”

As a candidate, Mr. Obama did give an economic policy speech at the Janesville plant in February 2008. The decision to close the plant was made several months later — as can be seen by a June 2008 letter from Mr. Ryan urging G.M. to reconsider.

It took some time for the plant to shut down, and some work continued there after Mr. Obama was sworn in as president.

The Ryan campaign said Thursday that the issue was not when the plant stopped production, but the fact that it has not reopened — and pointed to accounts of an Obama campaign statement from the fall of 2008 in which he said, “I will lead an effort to retool plants like the G.M. facility in Janesville so we can build the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow and create good-paying jobs in Wisconsin and all across America."

While Mr. Obama bailed out the auto industry, saving jobs, and included money in the stimulus for “green” energy jobs, the Janesville plant did not benefit from his moves.

The Apology Tour

In his floor speech, Mr. Romney repeated his widely debunked charge that Mr. Obama had gone on an “apology tour” on America’s behalf — an accusation he feels so strongly about that he laid out his own worldview in a 2010 book he titled “No Apology.”

But independent fact checkers have called the accusation a distortion, and it is hard to find evidence that Mr. Obama ever said he was sorry for the United States. Even in his speeches after winning the Nobel Peace Prize, Mr. Obama offered a strong defense of American policies, including the war in Afghanistan, which was growing increasingly unpopular in the rest of the world.



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/31/us/politics/ryans-speech-contained-a-litany-of-falsehoods.html

http://www.daily49er.com/opinion/paul-ryan-s-lies-make-for-a-questionable-vice-president-candidate-1.2755637#.UETqQq7yz9s


"INDEPENDENT FACT CHECKERS".........??????????? LMFAO....like for example The NY Times, Wash Post or Poli-Fact? You're kidding right? If the Heritage Foundation fact checks Barry's speech this week...will you in turn call it independent? Just last week I quoted the NY Times Ombudsman explain how the liberal slant bleeds through every news story, and here you are quoting a story by them and passing it off as "INDEPENDENT" .....Thanks for the levity....I needed it. Fact checking has become a left wing cottage industry...but at least it's providing some jobs ! I'll deconstruct your parroted nonsense later, but save to say Ryan was absolutely spot on with what he said about the GM plant ( it closed under Obama...closed meaning the last cars rolled off the line in 2009 after Obama made a speech there about a government/GM partnership keeping plants like it open for 100 years) , and as far as the Boles-Simpson commission, yes indeed Paul Ryan put in the heavy lifting ( while Obama did absolutely nothing...no input no effort... except to sanction the commission) with the other members of the commission, and ultimately despite all his hard work could not support it because it failed to address entitlement reform. Both commission chairs (Simpson-Boles) spoke highly of Ryans work and input in fact calling it extraordinary. But Ryan then submitted his own budgets to the House which were subsequently approved....while Obama's budgets for 2 years were voted down 97-0. He's absolutely correct in saying Obama walked away from his own commission's findings......Ryan's input notwithstanding...that's an accurate statement. As of this day Obama has no plan to deal with entitlement reform, or tax reform. You may not like Ryan's.....but he has a roadmap. Sorry...Barry can't make a pimple on Ryan's ass on these issues no matter what the Independent NY Times leads you to believe. But thanks for the laughs.

Me thinks you libs are scared to death of the young Mr. Ryan.

[Stavros]

[QUOTE

Me thinks you libs are scared to death of the young Mr. Ryan.[/QUOTE]

A) I am not a Liberal;
B) Ryan has admitted lying -woops, sorry- forgetting about his ability to run the marathon in under 3 hours....
c) Never mind the facts, consider Ryan's lack of intelligence, his inability to grasp the reality of policy-making and his unintelligent comments about the NHS in the UK. If he can't be bothered to fact-check himself maybe that's why his own 'facts' are so suspect. Here is what I commented on when I read a previous co-authored piece of Ryan's political garbagem it was in the earlier thread on Paul Ryan:

Re: Paul Ryan to be Romney's running mate?I read in the UK papers some comments Ryan made about the NHS in the UK, and tracked it down to an article he co-authored with someone called Peter Wehner in the Wall St Journal from 2009. The article, which is about the perils of 'Big Government' is linked at the end, but I offer my comments on the following two paragraphs as an indication that Ryan and friend are either incapable of doing some research, or can't be bothered.

Nationalizing health care will be profoundly detrimental to the quality of American medicine. In the name of cost control, the government would make private investment in medical innovation far riskier, and thus delay the development of potentially lifesaving treatments.
It will also put America on a glide path toward European-style socialism. We need only look to Great Britain and elsewhere to see the effects of socialized health care on the broader economy. Once a large number of citizens get their health care from the state, it dramatically alters their attachment to government. Every time a tax cut is proposed, the guardians of the new medical-welfare state will argue that tax cuts would come at the expense of health care -- an argument that would resonate with middle-class families entirely dependent on the government for access to doctors and hospitals.


First, the NHS was created in 1948, and as far as I know there has never in all those years been a claim that ‘private investment in medical innovation’ has been regarded as a risk. There are reasons for this:

1) the NHS does not have a monopoly of heath care provision in the UK, because the private sector was not abolished. It has always been possible for individuals to purchase private health insurance and be treated in private clinics and hospitals.

2) Investment in health care is made from numerous sources within the UK, private and public, and from outside the UK, the most obvious being the giant multi-national pharmaceutical companies.

3) If anything, the breadth of the NHS and the overall quality of its provision has made it a crucial ‘laboratory’ for the testing of new drugs and procedures.

4) Innovative heart surgery was pioneered by Sir Maghdi Yacoub at the NHS Harefield Hospital in Hertfordshire.


Magdi Yacoub - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdi_Yacoub)Magdi Yacoub - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdi_Yacoub)
Magdi Yacoub - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdi_Yacoub)



A recognised world centre of excellence offering innovative treatment of new born babies has been based at the Hospital for Sick Children in Great Ormond St, London for decades. A pioneer of the research into the links between tobacco and lung cancer, Richard Doll was based in Oxford for his career, working for the NHS. I could go on and on, but hope the few examples I give expose as a simple distortion of the truth what Ryan and Wehner say.

Second, there has never been a socialist government in the UK. Even when Labour won a landslide victory in 1945, it did not enact socialism ‘red in tooth and claw’. The transport network, the coal mines and the steel industry, and the utilities (gas, water, electricity) were all brought into public ownership. But the creation of the NHS as pointed out above, did not monopolise health care –private health care was available. A state education service was created, but private education was allowed to remain. The pharmaceutical industry, banking and insurance, entertainment, broadcasting, air and sea transport –none of these were brought into public ownership. The monarchy and the House of Lords were not abolished.


In the case of the creation of a dependency culture, I offer security of health care, or the human right to medical treatment. And most people pay for the NHS, it is not free, what they get in return is access to a general practitioner, the right to be treated there or in hospital free at the time of need and use; the state from my taxes funds in part the university medical schools that produce the full range of medical specialists from doctors through to haematologists; and for the most part the NHS has been ring-fenced against major cuts even when taxes have been cut, as they were when Margaret Thatcher was Prime Minister. And the first cuts to the NHS budget were introduced by what Ryan and Wehner would call the ‘Socialist’ govt of James Callaghan, in 1976.

I am not dependent on the NHS, I pay for it, and it gives me, for the most part, an excellent service. Taxes have been cut without undermining the service, although there are plenty of funding issues across the country. It is not perfect, but it works.

Ryan and Wehner may not be perfect either, but can they think? Even better –do some research?

the Ryan/Wehner article is here:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123207075026188601.html

[Prospero]

Well said Stavros.... and OMK you proved nothing at all with your earlier post about the NYTimes. Yes - as with every publication - there is an editorial line. It tilts towards liberalism. There is a world of difference between that the farrago of lies and myths foisted on a the US public by Fox and other Murdoch owned mouthpieces. But then in the 1930s had you been german you'd have enjoyed the outpourings of der Sturmer.

[BluegrassCat]

save to say Ryan was absolutely spot on with what he said about the GM plant ( it closed under Obama...closed meaning the last cars rolled off the line in 2009

Night is day, black is white. Orwell underestimated the modern GOP.

Note the date.

[onmyknees]

Hey....you mind numbed pinheads don't have to believe me about the fact checkers...Let George Will set you straight. OK now all together scurry off and try to find some dirt on George Will so you can discredit him as well. Label him a racist...that'll make it all better now won't it? And riddle me this....where was the NY Times and all these minions of fact checkers when Barry was telling his health care and stimulus whoppers .....oh say for example "The Health Care Premiums would not be a Tax" ( See Justice Roberts ruling) or the infamous ..."The Affordable Health Care Act will not add one dime do the debt" ( please consult the latest CBO numbers) or this one..."If you like your doctors...you can keep them"...( trouble is....your doctors will be leaving the profession as explained by the AMA in a recent polling of MD's) or this beauty, a category no one had ever heard of in compiling labor data..."SAVED or Created Jobs. LMAO...In fact there's so many lies....I'll start to list them one post at a time until the election. Now...listen to someone smarter than you debunk your foolish theories...
http://www.mrctv.org/videos/george-will-calls-out-washington-post-fact-checker

[trish]

What are you an idiot? You don't need no stinking fact checkers. All you need to have done is pay attention to the news over the last few years and you know for yourself Ryan stuffed his speech with so many lies it bulged, stretched and then exploded all over every news network you can think of. Even FOX NEWS reported he was trying to see how many lies one could stuff into one speech. You don't need no stinking NYT. You don't need no stinking George Will. Just read the fucking sign (how many signatures do you think are on that thing...that's a lot of witnesses to be refuting) ->

[onmyknees]

Lie # 1....Let's start small as not to overwhelm you all. You remember this in 2007 ?

Now....just the facts.

The only shoes Obama put on after this speech was his golf shoes and his dancing shoes. Not only did he never march with his union brothers and sisters, when Wisconsin and the Walker recall hung in the balance, he hung his union brothers and sisters out to dry.....not only not supporting them, but actually flying over Wisconsin at a pivotal point in the election to touchdown to a fundraiser in a neighboring state. Pocketed some cool cash, and back to DC. Wisconsin's labor unions went down to a smashing defeat.

My Bullshit meter rates this lie 5 out of a possible 5. Can you hear me now Fact Checkers?






2007: Barack Obama promised to "walk on that picket line" if workers are denied the right to bargain - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA9KC8SMu3o&feature=player_embedded)

[trish]

Oh and GOP Governor Brown and the wannbe Romney-Ryan Administration would be all for the Wisconsin Unions right?

[onmyknees]

Lie # 2. Time to jump the shark into what can only be considered lies of monumental proportion, or in other words...Nixonian Sized Lies because of the eventual impact. This one because of the amount of times it was repeated, and for the disgraceful path that the Health Care Bill actually took... and all the sleazy back room buy offs and deals, the accounting gimmicks used to keep the figure under 1 billion, might go down as one of the biggest lies since Nixon told us "Your President is NOT a Crook".

I checked with Brian Lamb, and there was some sub committee hearings on CSPAN, but 99% of this bill was written by Sebelius' staff and Washington Insiders, AARP, and Big Pharma. DO we really have to relive the Corn Husker kickback...or the Louisiana Purchase...or Nancy Pelosi telling us we have to pass the bill so we can see what's in the bill. How exactly does that line up with what Barry promised over, and over and over that we would not only be a part of it....but be able to see the bill crafted? Americans were not pleased and were not fooled. Obamacare is widely unpopular for all the above reasons.


My Bullshit meter pegged at 5 piles of shit after looking at this lie, and would have gone to 50 had I not hit the emergency shut off .

http://blip.tv/episode/3071723

[robertlouis]

OMK, any possibility of a response from you on Ryan's mix of lies and deliberately misleading comments about the NHS?

[BluegrassCat]

Lie # 2. Time to jump the shark into what can only be considered lies of monumental proportion, or in other words...Nixonian Sized Lies because of the eventual impact. This one because of the amount of times it was repeated, and for the disgraceful path that the Health Care Bill actually took... and all the sleazy back room buy offs and deals, the accounting gimmicks used to keep the figure under 1 billion, might go down as one of the biggest lies since Nixon told us "Your President is NOT a Crook".

I checked with Brian Lamb, and there was some sub committee hearings on CSPAN, but 99% of this bill was written by Sebelius' staff and Washington Insiders, AARP, and Big Pharma. DO we really have to relive the Corn Husker kickback...or the Louisiana Purchase...or Nancy Pelosi telling us we have to pass the bill so we can see what's in the bill. How exactly does that line up with what Barry promised over, and over and over that we would not only be a part of it....but be able to see the bill crafted? Americans were not pleased and were not fooled. Obamacare is widely unpopular for all the above reasons.


My Bullshit meter pegged at 5 piles of shit on this lie, and would have gone to 50 had I not turned it off.

http://blip.tv/episode/3071723


So you're saying on a bullshit scale of 1 to 50, this scored a 5? Sounds pretty honest and forthright to me. Glad you finally came around to supporting America.

[onmyknees]

Night is day, black is white. Orwell underestimated the modern GOP.

Note the date.

Look...you're the same gullible dupe who fell for Hope and Change and gave us 15% real unemployment and more debt than all the other Presidents combined...so you have zero credibility no matter how many pictures you post, or Orwell referrences you make. You're just not smart enough to engage....because you're lazy and you're spoon fed...but unfortunately your vote counts as much as mine. Here's what the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel said...Or do you think they have it wrong too>?? Read the fucking dates you gullible fool and stop digesting all that bilge you're being fed at those far left websites.

You clearly missed the entire larger point Ryan was attempting to make in the speech while you were busy getting the dates wrong and misleading everyone.....but keep searching for those pictures ...they're worth a thousand words. LMAO



GM Janesville plant still on standby

Tennessee site chosen instead

By Thomas Content (tcontent@journalsentinel.com) and Joe Taschler (jtaschler@journalsentinel.com) of the Journal Sentinel
Sept. 19, 2011


General Motors Co. has committed to reopen its idled plant in Spring Hill, Tenn., and keep its shuttered assembly plant in Janesville on standby status.
The commitment to the former Saturn plant in Tennessee was part of a contract settlement reached late last week between GM and the United Auto Workers union.
Since they were shut down in 2009, both the Janesville and Tennessee plants have been on standby status, meaning they were not producing vehicles, but they were not completely shut down.
The UAW was seeking a commitment from the company to add jobs and reopen idled plants as part of talks on a new four-year contract.
Under terms of the contract, UAW members will receive $5,000 signing bonuses and the possibility of sweeter profit-sharing checks, two people briefed on the talks told the Associated Press.
Auto industry observer David Cole, chairman emeritus of the Ann Arbor, Mich.-based Center for Automotive Research, said it would be premature to say the Janesville plant will never reopen.
"If we get back to any kind of a reasonable market, with 15- or 16 million sales, then I think that's going to require Janesville as well," he said.
But the economy is recovering more slowly than people anticipated. "That's really the key factor," Cole said. "You're going to see the company be exceedingly cautious on overcapacity. And they obviously didn't need a commitment for Janesville to get the UAW's support."
Given that Spring Hill is a much younger plant - Janesville was GM's oldest - and that the automaker had kept it open as a parts plant meant "it was only logical that was the first in line," Cole said.
Ready, but not waiting

The Janesville plant stopped production of SUVs in 2008 and was idled in 2009 after it completed production of medium-duty trucks.
Remaining on standby means not much has changed in Janesville. Community leaders say they would be ready if the GM plant reopened, but no one seems to be counting on that.
"I think there are a lot of people that would love to see General Motors come back to this area and provide good quality manufacturing jobs," said Bob Borremans, executive director of the Southwest Wisconsin Workforce Development Board. "If we fit into their future and they come back, people would (welcome) that with great anticipation and open arms.
"Do most people think something will happen? Not for the foreseeable future."
Long-term, anything is possible, he added.
"We don't want to dismiss anything out of hand at this point, but I don't think there's anybody really holding their breath waiting for General Motors to activate that plant again and move it to production," he said.
The area has plenty of people looking for work.
A new hospital being built said recently it received 6,000 applications for 350 jobs, Borremans said.
Janesville's unemployment rate in July was 9.5% while the rate statewide was 7.7%, according to seasonally unadjusted numbers compiled by the state. Numbers for August will be released Wednesday.
Efforts to bring job opportunities to Janesville continue, said Vic Grassman, economic development director for the city.
"The reality is, we have some business attraction opportunities in other parts of the city. We have a lot happening," Grassman said.
"We have four or five prospects that have received proposals from the Wisconsin Economic Development Corp.," he said. "We have a 226-acre, shovel-ready certified industrial park that's ready to go. We're moving on."

[onmyknees]

OMK, any possibility of a response from you on Ryan's mix of lies and deliberately misleading comments about the NHS?


LMAO.....Why would it matter? Am I suppose to think you and the other libs on here would actually stop calling conservatives racists and Neanderthals and extremists long enough to engage in a reasoned discussion? Am I to think you'd have an awakening of the political sort? Not hardly....you're a bitter partisan that closed your mind to reality after you saw Obama in front of those Greek columns and no amount of proof or data...is going to open your mind. If this were a medical condition...the attending doctor would tell the nurse...."he's lost...DNR , his brain is not getting oxygen." And you're one of the worst offenders on here... so save the "let's talk" bullshit for someone else. Here's the bottom line.....last election you poured a mountain of filth on Palin on everything from her disabled kid, to her son in the military, and now your slime machine is firing on all cylinders again....because you'd rather focus on Ryan than your guy. Could anybody with an honest bone in their body not be embarrassed by that buffoon you support...Joe Biden who no one could accuse of lying because to lie assumes you know the truth. This idiot should be admitted, not out campaigning. Of course you'd rather focus on Ryan...the liberals record is abysmal, but I'm not playing that. And timing is everything......while I was writing this, I see where Biden made yet another gaffe about the number of troops KIA in Afghanistan, so it's quite obvious why you'd like to talk about Ryan. This election is about one thing, and one thing only..........Obama's record. Deal with it.

[robertlouis]

LMAO.....Why would it matter? Am I suppose to think you and the other libs on here would actually stop calling conservatives racists and Neanderthals and extremists long enough to engage in a reasoned discussion? Am I to think you'd have an awakening of the political sort? Not hardly....you're a bitter partisan that closed your mind to reality after you saw Obama in front of those Greek columns and no amount of proof or data...is going to open your mind. If this were a medical condition...the attending doctor would tell the nurse...."he's lost...DNR , his brain is not getting oxygen." And you're one of the worst offenders on here... so save the "let's talk" bullshit for someone else. Here's the bottom line.....last election you poured a mountain of filth on Palin on everything from her disabled kid, to her son in the military, and now your slime machine is firing on all cylinders again....because you'd rather focus on Ryan than your guy. Could anybody with an honest bone in their body not be embarrassed by that buffoon you support...Joe Biden who no one could accuse of lying because to lie assumes you know the truth. This idiot should be admitted, not out campaigning. Of course you'd rather focus on Ryan...the liberals record is abysmal, but I'm not playing that. And timing is everything......while I was writing this, I see where Biden made yet another gaffe about the number of troops KIA in Afghanistan, so it's quite obvious why you'd like to talk about Ryan. This election is about one thing, and one thing only..........Obama's record. Deal with it.

That's a no then...

I ask a perfectly reasonable question in a courteous way and get a tirade. Who's avoiding a "reasoned discussion"? And are you asking me to believe that you're not a "bitter partisan" when it comes to the GOP?

[BluegrassCat]

you were busy getting the dates wrong and misleading everyone.....but keep searching for those pictures ...they're worth a thousand words. LMAO



Goddamn you're a fucking nitwit. Yes, the picture is worth a thousand words, that's why I posted it. You think every single Janesville employee who signed that 2008 banner is a member of an Obama conspiracy? You're off the rails, just like your extremist party.

[onmyknees]

Lie # 3....

This just happened yesterday...it's a little "white" lie, so it's probable you'll overlook it as just campaign bluster.....oh wait...that's right you're holding Paul Ryan to a higher standard...so you should appreciate this....Here's what the chronic one said today....


“I am told that Governor Romney’s new running mate, Paul Ryan, might be around Iowa the next few days,” he said while in Council Bluffs, Iowa. “He is one of the leaders of Congress standing in the way. So if you happen to see Congressman Ryan, tell him how important this farm bill is to Iowa and our rural communities.”
Oops....Would somebody please tweet David AxleDouch and tell him to write a better script. The House passed the Agriculture Assistance bill in August...Here's the vote count and pay attention to Ryan who voted ..."Yes".
House passed bill on August 2, 2012 (Paul Ryan voted yes) (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2012/roll554.xml)

My Bullshit meter does not measure how big the lie is....only if it's true or false. The needle worked it's way up to 5 a little more slowly, but redlined there. Is it a lie...or just Barry off the teleprompter? Nope...Another lie Mr. President. Criminologists would instruct that 3 or more would indicate a pattern, and I'm just getting started.

[onmyknees]

Lie # 4..........


This is a Gem....an 8000 dollar gem. The Chronic One made this statement back in 2010. In case you can't remember back to 2008, gas was on average $1.80 a gallon. So not only is he not saving us the promised 8000K a year, but his lack of an energy policy, and his restriction on drilling, we're paying 100% more for gas.

Is a distortion or exaggeration of this magnatude a lie ? (BUZZER) My Bullshit meter says it is espicially since Obama says ..."Pretty Soon". Check it out.
Now whoever posted the foolishness of Paul Ryan
exaggerating his finish time for a marathon some years ago.....in light of these crippling lies Barry has told...aren't you feeling a bit silly and insignificant ?

I'm getting tired of doing the NY Times job...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1Bmv75p5Ag8

[trish]

Goddamn you're a fucking nitwit. Yes, the picture is worth a thousand words, that's why I posted it. You think every single Janesville employee who signed that 2008 banner is a member of an Obama conspiracy? You're off the rails, just like your extremist party.:claps:claps:claps:claps:claps

[hippifried]

Ryan's biggest lie is that this cooked up austerity nonsense will have any kind of positive effect on the US economy.

[Prospero]

Is there a medical condition to characterise the spew of poison, halftruths and aggression issuing from the keyboard of OMK?

One small point. If Joe Biden got the numbers wrong on Afghanistan maybe he made a mistake> as oppsed to the long list of lies issues by Ryan.

And yes a reasoned question from anyone who OMK deems to be of the lickspittle left is greeted either with a wall of silence or with a cauldron of invective.

Oh and on the biggest debt - who left to the present administration. That two time President Mr George W Bush. Funny how the GOP have written him out of the story.

And who consistently now blocks any initiative by the President - why the GP in the House.

[Prospero]

So the New York Times - one of the world's great newspapers - is too Liberal for Fox Nrws viewers.

Perhaps NPR i also too left wing?

Some analysis drom that network....

The 2012 Republican National Convention may have been the first gathering of its kind to take its theme from a gaffe.

Some variation of the phrase "We Built That" was the theme of the first night but, in effect, dominated the stage rhetoric throughout the convention. The phrase was the only one heard as often as "Hurricane Isaac."

The national party chairman, the speaker of the House, the keynoter and the vice presidential nominee all hit the mark like clockwork. Every major speaker on stage returned to the theme, talking about what they and others had built for themselves and how it was theirs and not the government's. Even Mitt Romney, in the final speech of the Tampa convention, said President Obama "had almost no experience working in a business ... jobs to him are about government."


On the final night, delegates were shown a video of President Obama actually uttering the fateful words "You didn't build that ... somebody else made that happen" at a July 13 campaign stop in Roanoke, Va. Most reporters who were there took note of the remark, but in the context in which it was made — discussing education, infrastructure and other services that governments at various levels provide to make new businesses possible.

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business — you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don't do on our own."


But that same weekend, the blogosphere and conservative talk shows picked up on the abbreviated version, making it sound as though the president was telling business owners they weren't responsible for their businesses, or entitled to the fruits of their labor.

By choosing his words carelessly, the president had committed what amounts to a major gaffe in our politicized YouTube culture. Even a few inadvertent seconds of language can go viral and cause a storm. And it almost doesn't matter what the context is. In an unguarded moment, any political figure can create the material for a damaging campaign.

Mitt Romney found that out in the early primaries, when cameras caught him talking about giving the boot to people who provided bad or overpriced services. At a breakfast on a January morning in New Hampshire, the candidate let the words "I like being able to fire people who provide services to me" pass his lips. And that is all that the makers of commercials and hit pieces for online consumption needed. Some of his primary opponents hopped on that bit of tape and rode it for days — even weeks — along with news people and lots of Obama's political allies.

At the time, those who used the "like being able to fire people" tape had an argument they offered as justification. They said Romney was revealing himself with this offhanded reference to firing people. He must be some kind of Donald Trump, a plutocrat getting a charge out of giving people the gate.

But after a while, other issues arose and the primary dynamic shifted.

This summer, the controversy over "you didn't build that" has been a far more sustained phenomenon, even before this convention. While primarily limited to the conservative media, it has taken on a life of its own. The refusal of more mainstream media to take it as seriously has only made it catnip for those who do. And at the Tampa convention, this line of attack, legitimate or not, all but took over the proceedings.

Republicans offer a justification similar to that used by Romney's tormentors back in the primaries. They say it reveals the true Obama attitude toward business, a cross between disrespect and outright hostility. And speaker after speaker here used the "build that" quote as evidence to this point. An array of small business owners were brought to the stage to explain how they had struggled to get their "mom and pop" operation up and running.

Tom Stemberg, founder of the office supply store Staples, gave one of several testimonials for Romney on the final night. But he spent much of his time raking the White House for its supposed attitude toward business: "They just don't get it. They don't get it because they don't believe in the spirit of the entrepreneur. They don't understand what it means to risk money to create something new. They don't understand the hard work it takes to get a business off the ground."

In Tampa, it became increasingly clear that Republicans, or at least those who attended this convention, truly believe this characterization of the president. They believe it's not just that Obama insists on some role for the public sector, or an equal partnership, but that he neither comprehends nor honors the contribution of capitalism and free enterprise.

It is reminiscent of the rhetoric heard about socialism and the New Deal in the 1930s and 1940s and reprised a generation later in reaction to the Great Society. In those days, the phrase was "running government more like a business." Such talk had faded in recent years, at least temporarily, after the meltdown that began in late 2007 shook many people's faith in the wisdom of markets.

But here in Tampa, the centrality of business and its needs and wants were front and center. Foreign policy was an afterthought in most of the presentations, including Romney's acceptance speech. Social issues were scarcely mentioned, rating a passing reference of less than a minute's duration in the nominee's finale.

Yet Romney used the word business 17 times in that same speech.

One of them was a reference to the "freedom to build a business." One more use of the most reliable applause line of this convention.

If the economy is the top issue and jobs are the key measurement of the economy, the Romney Republicans believe they can win by convincing the public that the current president simply doesn't understand where jobs come from. The central theme of this week in Tampa is about to become the party's mantra for the fall.

[Stavros]

I think that is a genuinely difficult issue when opponents of one politician can splice and edit speeches or comments to their own purpose. At least fact-checkers can go back and look at the whole passage and see how it worked. Writers must know that this tactic can be used, but the alternative is to use plain as plain speech as can be. Thus, and famously, when George H Bush tried to avoid any attempt to twist his words, he said it as plainly as he could: Read my lips: no new taxes. Or Bill Clinton's categorical statement: I did not have sexual relations with that woman. Difficult to twist the meaning of either of those phrases when the reality passes by.

And incidentally, while people are claiming that Obama is on the golf course when he should be leading the country, wasn't George H Bush obsessed with sport? In one day he would have a run, go fishing, play a round of golf -I recall someone I knew around that time saying George Bush is a sport jukie. Not sure if anyone has fact-checked that one.

[Prospero]

Yes there have been claims that obama took more than the average umber of days of vacation during the first couple of years of his office. In fact he took far fewer than Bush.

But no one wants to talk about Bush in the GOP. Wonder why? Why aren't we seeing him out there supporting Romney.

[thombergeron]

“I am told that Governor Romney’s new running mate, Paul Ryan, might be around Iowa the next few days,” he said while in Council Bluffs, Iowa. “He is one of the leaders of Congress standing in the way. So if you happen to see Congressman Ryan, tell him how important this farm bill is to Iowa and our rural communities.”

Oops....Would somebody please tweet David AxleDouch and tell him to write a better script. The House passed the Agriculture Assistance bill in August...Here's the vote count and pay attention to Ryan who voted ..."Yes".

House passed bill on August 2, 2012 (Paul Ryan voted yes) (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2012/roll554.xml)


Since you're so well informed, why don't you tell us all about H.R. 6233, the Agricultural Disaster Assistance Act of 2012, the bill that Ryan voted for. Why don't you tell us about where it is in the legislative process. Why don't you tell us how the funding levels in the bill relate to the level of funding requested by governors of drought-affilcted states.

Maybe you could let us know where the President's preferred drought-relief bill sits. You know, the bill that actually came out of the House Ag Committee? The five-year bill that Obama is talking about in this quote that you've wildly misrepresented? How did Paul Ryan vote on the bill that came out of the House Ag Committee?

Oh wait, that's right. He and the rest of the House leadership refused to allow a vote on that bill. One might even say that they "stood in the way" of the Ag Committee's bill coming to a vote. Instead, they passed an inadequate "stop-gap" bill, a bill opposed by the Farm Bureau, for precisely this reason: so that low-information, easily confused people like you can say, "Hey, the President said Ryan blocked the farm bill, but lookee there. The House passed a farm bill, so the President LIES!"

And you fell for it. Because you're kind of thick and lack the capacity for critical thinking.

[thombergeron]

OK now all together scurry off and try to find some dirt on George Will so you can discredit him as well.

It's not that hard. George Will has spent 30 years making unsupportable ideological statements. On July 8, on ABC News' This Week, George Will stated that this year's heat wave is because it's summer time. During the hottest summer ever recorded, when 20,000 heat records have been broken in the United States alone, George Will thinks it's nothing out of the ordinary, just summer. Crank the AC and shut up.


"The Affordable Health Care Act will not add one dime do the debt" ( please consult the latest CBO numbers)

The CBO's analysis of the budgetary impact of the PPACA, released on July 24, 2012 following the Supreme Court's ruling, shows that the law in its current form reduces the deficit by $84 billion for the 2012-2022 period. Every single CBO analysis of PPACA has shown that it will reduce the deficit. There are no CBO analyses that show the PPACA increasing the deficit.

[thombergeron]

I checked with Brian Lamb, and there was some sub committee hearings on CSPAN, but 99% of this bill was written by Sebelius' staff and Washington Insiders, AARP, and Big Pharma. DO we really have to relive the Corn Husker kickback...or the Louisiana Purchase...or Nancy Pelosi telling us we have to pass the bill so we can see what's in the bill. How exactly does that line up with what Barry promised over, and over and over that we would not only be a part of it....but be able to see the bill crafted? Americans were not pleased and were not fooled. Obamacare is widely unpopular for all the above reasons.

OK, so you don't like the way the bill was passed. I don't either. And, amazingly, I think you're right. The incredibly ugly legislative process required to pass health care reform despite an obstructionist opposition party -- not the content of the law itself -- is the reason that "Obamacare" is unpopular. And that process is what enabled the lies and demagoguing to continue. Most people, plainly including you, have no idea what Obamacare is. For instance, you mistakenly think that that the PPACA adds to the deficit, when in fact, it reduces it.

So, "Obamacare" is unpopular, with 56% opposed to it in a June Reuters/Ipsos poll. But what about the part of Obamacare allowing children to stay on their parent's insurance plan until age 26? 61% support. How about the part requiring "job creators" to provide their employees with health insurance? 72% support. What about the part that bans insurance companies from denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions? Supported by 82% of the population.

Ironically, the only unpopular part of Obamacare is the insurance mandate, an idea first proposed by Stuart Butler at the Heritage Foundation, previously implemented in policy only by the current Republican candidate for President, and included in the PPACA to mollify the insurance companies, not patients, who would have been better served by single payer. Only 36% of the population supports this giveaway to the insurance industry. So I agree with you (again) on this point. The mandate should be repealed and replaced by Medicare-for-all.

[onmyknees]

Lie # 42....This is a target rich enviornment, so we're jumping around a bit...but they'll be plenty of time to fill in all the blanks as I won't be tuning into to "re-invention convention".....

Obama Blames Congress For Solyndra: "Not Our Program, Per Se" - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6Py8ua-tAU&feature=player_embedded)


The claim in his own words....“Obviously, we wish Solyndra hadn’t gone bankrupt. But understand: This was not our program per se,”

The facts.....It was absolutely his program.
Loans for alternative energy programs were approved with bipartisan support in 2005, but Solyndra’s loan was part of the 2009 stimulus package. Recall that package was the brain child of Larry Summers and other Administration officials, and was sent to Congress and voted on with no (zero) Republican Votes. Furthermore, the loans were made with full knowledge that, in 2010, according to accounting firm PricewaterhouseCoopers Solyndra (http://www.iwatchnews.org/2011/09/12/6401/missed-warning-signs-solyndra-timeline) ”had suffered recurring losses from operations, negative cash flows since inception and has a net stockholders’ deficit that, among other factors, raised substantial doubt about its ability to continue as a going concern.” China had nothing to do with it.


So was this a truth distortion or a lie ? Was Barry massaging the facts? The Bullshit meter hot 4 out of a possible 5 on this one....

[Stavros]

It is true that when the Obama administration began, alternative energy and the creation or rather the extended development of an existing 'green energy' industry was viewed as a priority in energy policy. THis was also true of Germany and China. One of the fall-outs from the financial crisis that began in 2008 is that money for investment has shrunk, and the solar industry itself has been particulalry badly hit, with bankruptices in the USA -in addition to Solyndra you can add Spectra Watt of NY, and Evergreen Solar in Massachussetts. Solar energy has been hit badly in Germany, and now in China where a similar story has made investment in solar a liability.

So if Obama got it wrong, so did everyone else. We are back where we started -the logic of solar power -a cheap source of energy that does not damage the environment- is not matched by its limitations: it can power a house, but not a town. Add to that the US in particular, with a slight blip in the second quarter this year, has reduced its dependency on foreign petroleum imports, going back to conventional sources in the deep water Gulf of Mexico, and reconsidering unconventional hydrocarbons through the shale oil and gas industry. Looked at in terms of energy policy I would still back alternative energy sources over the long term because hydrocarbons and a finite resource, and if the right investment in the technology of solar succeeds in breaking through the barriers of power generation, it ought to be the safest long term bet.

In the short term it does'nt look a good bet, but to pin some colossal badge of failure on an industrial sector that was in trouble before Obama's election in 2008 merely suggests that they made the wrong calculation. It wasn't as expensive as Iraq though, was it, and that was also a miscalculation.

You could even mark down a reductin in petroleum dependency a PLUS for the Obama administation, but you are not into positives with his administration, so I guess that's a waste of time.

You said 'No' when RobertLouis challenged you on Paul Ryan's co-authored article that showed how little they understood of the NHS in the UK. It matters if you accept Ryan was contrasting what he saw as the failures of the NHS as a warning to Americans, even though the interpretation was completely wrong and deliberately distorted the truth. That is the crux of the matter, perhaps you could for once generate some intelligent discussion on what Ryan actually says instead of changing horses to change the argument.

[onmyknees]

Lie # 42....This is a target rich enviornment, so we're jumping around a bit...but they'll be plenty of time to fill in all the blanks as I won't be tuning into to "re-invention convention".....

Obama Blames Congress For Solyndra: "Not Our Program, Per Se" - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6Py8ua-tAU&feature=player_embedded)


The claim in his own words....“Obviously, we wish Solyndra hadn’t gone bankrupt. But understand: This was not our program per se,”

The facts.....It was absolutely his program.
Loans for alternative energy programs were approved with bipartisan support in 2005, but Solyndra’s loan was part of the 2009 stimulus package. Recall that package was the brain child of Larry Summers and other Administration officials, and was sent to Congress and voted on with no (zero) Republican Votes. Furthermore, the loans were made with full knowledge that, in 2010, according to accounting firm PricewaterhouseCoopers Solyndra (http://www.iwatchnews.org/2011/09/12/6401/missed-warning-signs-solyndra-timeline) ”had suffered recurring losses from operations, negative cash flows since inception and has a net stockholders’ deficit that, among other factors, raised substantial doubt about its ability to continue as a going concern.” China had nothing to do with it.


So was this a truth distortion or a lie ? Was Barry massaging the facts? The Bullshit meter hot 4 out of a possible 5 on this one....


Correction.....we don't like to let typos or mistakes stand....There was no R's in the House who voted for it, and only a scant few in the Senate...like Arlen Spector...or was he a democrat at the time of the vote? :dancing:

[onmyknees]

Goddamn you're a fucking nitwit. Yes, the picture is worth a thousand words, that's why I posted it. You think every single Janesville employee who signed that 2008 banner is a member of an Obama conspiracy? You're off the rails, just like your extremist party.


Here is a transcript of a conversation today on the Sgt. Shultz radio program. It's instructive because he behaves similar to you. I have no way of testing the verascity of the caller, but her dates are more in line with what GM and the Journal Sentinel report than yours. You used a picture to proved your point. Maybe those people worked on the SUV assembly section of the plant. You actually missed Ryan's larger point, so you were grasping for straws....or perhaps you didn't miss it, but were unable to combat it?........it's called deflection. There is little question the plant was producing trucks in 2009. It's a small point, but if you and the fact checkers can't get that right....how can we trust anything you say ? Now go stand in the corner with your dunce cap on...and no convention for you tonight...you've proved you're too gullible.




Laid-Off Auto Worker Schools Ed Schultz on Closing of GM Plant in Janesville



A (http://javascript<b></b>:decreaseFontSize();) A (http://javascript<b></b>:increaseFontSize();)
http://newsbusters.org/sites/default/files/nb%20schultz%20sept%204%2012%20three.jpgSchultz repeatedly interrupted and talked over a woman who said she used to work at the Janesville plant, voted for Obama in 2008 on the basis of his stump speech there, and won't make that mistake again (
SCHULTZ: Elaine in Janesville, Wisc., you have the floor on the Ed Schultz radio show. I will consider you a fact checker.


CALLER: Oh yeah, I wanted to let you know what it was like for the workers here. In February of 2008, President, well President-elect Obama (not for several months) came to Janesville and he said that if he, if government were here and getting involved that he would help to retool the Janesville plant. And then the announcement was made in June of 2008 that in 2010 we'd probably be closing. We made trucks and large SUVs here. And in October of 2008, fortunately we hoped that President Obama would be leading the way to retool our plant and he said that he would like to retool it and make cars like the Volt and that because, you know, the problem was our wanting of production. And in December of 2008, they idled production of the SUVs but we continued with the trucks. And we still were hopeful that we'd be retooled and part of what was going on in Washington and in April 2009 we were still open with the truck production. And then that was stopped and we were still hopeful in 20- ...

SCHULTZ (testily interrupts): But where was President Obama? I mean, did you hear the speech last night from Paul Ryan? What'd you think what he said all that?



CALLER: Well, it is, I mean, most of us that worked at the plant voted for the president because we thought he was going to retool our plant and he didn't. He just passed us by and ...
SCHULTZ: He wasn't in a position to do that, Elaine!
CALLER: Yes ...
SCHULTZ: No, he wasn't.
CALLER: Yes, we were working, our plant was open in April of 2009. There was truck production.


SCHULTZ: No, no, no, wait a minute, back up just a little, back up ...
CALLER: I was working there ...


SCHULTZ: You were working there but it was already targeted to shut down! He couldn't do anything about it! They were on him about running the car business, he said I didn't want to be in the car business. He floated the loan and let GM go do what they had to do, OK?


CALLER: Oh no, no ....


SCHULTZ (refusing to let caller talk): So he, he had nothing to do, nor did he make any promises to any of the workers there, Elaine! You're buying the right-wing g-, you're buying the right-wing garbage!
CALLER: No, I was there for his, for, you know, we had a lot of things that were passed out ...


SCHULTZ: Are you a union worker?! Are you a union worker?

[hippifried]

Here is a transcript of a conversation today on the Sgt. Shultz radio program. It's instructive because he behaves similar to you. I have no way of testing the verascity of the caller, but her dates are more in line with what GM and the Journal Sentinel report than yours. You used a picture to proved your point. Maybe those people worked on the SUV assembly section of the plant. You actually missed Ryan's larger point, so you were grasping for straws....or perhaps you didn't miss it, but were unable to combat it?........it's called deflection. There is little question the plant was producing trucks in 2009. It's a small point, but if you and the fact checkers can't get that right....how can we trust anything you say ? Now go stand in the corner with your dunce cap on...and no convention for you tonight...you've proved you're too gullible.




Laid-Off Auto Worker Schools Ed Schultz on Closing of GM Plant in Janesville



A (http://javascript<b></b>:decreaseFontSize();) A (http://javascript<b></b>:increaseFontSize();)
http://newsbusters.org/sites/default/files/nb%20schultz%20sept%204%2012%20three.jpgSchultz repeatedly interrupted and talked over a woman who said she used to work at the Janesville plant, voted for Obama in 2008 on the basis of his stump speech there, and won't make that mistake again (
SCHULTZ: Elaine in Janesville, Wisc., you have the floor on the Ed Schultz radio show. I will consider you a fact checker.


CALLER: Oh yeah, I wanted to let you know what it was like for the workers here. In February of 2008, President, well President-elect Obama (not for several months) came to Janesville and he said that if he, if government were here and getting involved that he would help to retool the Janesville plant. And then the announcement was made in June of 2008 that in 2010 we'd probably be closing. We made trucks and large SUVs here. And in October of 2008, fortunately we hoped that President Obama would be leading the way to retool our plant and he said that he would like to retool it and make cars like the Volt and that because, you know, the problem was our wanting of production. And in December of 2008, they idled production of the SUVs but we continued with the trucks. And we still were hopeful that we'd be retooled and part of what was going on in Washington and in April 2009 we were still open with the truck production. And then that was stopped and we were still hopeful in 20- ...


SCHULTZ (testily interrupts): But where was President Obama? I mean, did you hear the speech last night from Paul Ryan? What'd you think what he said all that?




CALLER: Well, it is, I mean, most of us that worked at the plant voted for the president because we thought he was going to retool our plant and he didn't. He just passed us by and ...

SCHULTZ: He wasn't in a position to do that, Elaine!
CALLER: Yes ...
SCHULTZ: No, he wasn't.
CALLER: Yes, we were working, our plant was open in April of 2009. There was truck production.


SCHULTZ: No, no, no, wait a minute, back up just a little, back up ...
CALLER: I was working there ...


SCHULTZ: You were working there but it was already targeted to shut down! He couldn't do anything about it! They were on him about running the car business, he said I didn't want to be in the car business. He floated the loan and let GM go do what they had to do, OK?


CALLER: Oh no, no ....


SCHULTZ (refusing to let caller talk): So he, he had nothing to do, nor did he make any promises to any of the workers there, Elaine! You're buying the right-wing g-, you're buying the right-wing garbage!
CALLER: No, I was there for his, for, you know, we had a lot of things that were passed out ...


SCHULTZ: Are you a union worker?! Are you a union worker?


So what? Is there a point here? We're not electing pundits.

I still haven't seen anything that lends credence to Paul Ryan's bullshit, & he IS running for office.

[MdR Dave]

http://m.quickmeme.com/meme/3qrg95/

[BluegrassCat]

Here is a transcript of a conversation today on the Sgt. Shultz radio program. It's instructive because he behaves similar to you. I have no way of testing the verascity of the caller, but her dates are more in line with what GM and the Journal Sentinel report than yours. You used a picture to proved your point. Maybe those people worked on the SUV assembly section of the plant.

Here's the fact-check for you, you sad, ignorant troll, GM decided to close the plant in JUNE 2008. Don't believe GM? Here it is from someone who can do math. I know you don't believe in math because it has a liberal bias, but tough shit, the facts don't lie, just you and Lyin' Ryan.

Ezra Klein:
"I can think of three ways to understand Ryan’s comment. One is that Obama promised to bail out the plant and didn’t. That’s false. Another is that Obama could have kept the plant from closing and didn’t. That’s false. A third is that he should have worked some magic on the economy such that a roaring recovery led the Janesville plant to be reopened. That seems ridiculous, and in any case, was certainly not something Obama or anyone else was promising in February 2008, as the recession necessitating that recovery wouldn’t happen for many months yet."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/04/paul-ryans-medicare-claims-vs-his-auto-bailout-claims/



You actually missed Ryan's larger point, so you were grasping for straws....or perhaps you didn't miss it,

This is fucking hilarious. I shouldn't let Ryan's lies get in the way of the larger point he's making. LMFAO! He really wants to be VP and so if he has to make shit up about Obama to get there, well it's in service of a larger point. God, you're pathetic.

[trish]

Distortions and lies are now the stock in trade of the men who would run America and their supporters

Veep wannabe Paul Ryan's so called barnstorming speech to the Republicans last week was jammed full of distoritions about the record of the incumbent president.

The NY times branded the a litany of lies.

Facts Take a Beating in Acceptance Speeches
By MICHAEL COOPER
Published: August 31, 2012

Representative Paul D. Ryan used his convention speech on Wednesday to fault President Obama for failing to act on a deficit-reduction plan that he himself had helped kill. He chided Democrats for seeking $716 billion in Medicare cuts that he too had sought. And he lamented the nation’s credit rating — which was downgraded after a debt-ceiling standoff that he and other House Republicans helped instigate.

And Mitt Romney, in his acceptance speech on Thursday night, asserted that President Obama’s policies had “not helped create jobs” and that Mr. Obama had gone on an “apology tour” for America. He also warned that the president’s Medicare cuts would “hurt today’s seniors,” claims that have already been labeled false or misleading.

The two speeches — peppered with statements that were incorrect or incomplete — seemed to signal the arrival of a new kind of presidential campaign, one in which concerns about fact-checking have been largely set aside.

In recent weeks, the Romney campaign has broadcast television advertisements leveling the widely debunked assertion that Mr. Obama had gutted the work requirements for welfare recipients. The Obama campaign, for its part, ran a deceptive ad saying that Mitt Romney had “backed a bill that outlaws all abortion, even in case of rape and incest,” although he currently supports exceptions in cases of rape, incest or when the life of the mother is at risk.

The growing number of misrepresentations appear to reflect a calculation in both parties that shame is overrated, and that no independent arbiters command the stature or the platform to hold the campaigns to account in the increasingly polarized and balkanized media firmament. Any unmasking of the lies or distortions, the thinking goes, rarely seeps into the public consciousness.

But an interesting question unfolding is whether there is a tipping point at which a candidate becomes so associated with falsehoods that it becomes part of his public persona — which hampered Vice President Al Gore during his run for president in 2000, when his misstatements on the campaign trail were used to stoke the perception that he could not be trusted in general.

In the case of Mr. Ryan’s speech, the jury is still out. It was received rapturously by the Republican Party faithful, but his many questionable assertions ensured that much of the analysis on Thursday focused on his accuracy more than his acumen.

The Obama campaign fanned the flames with a Web video mocking Mr. Ryan, showing anchors from CNN and Fox News questioning some of his statements. And Stephanie Cutter, the president’s deputy campaign manager, was blunt. “There’s no delicate way to say this: last night Paul Ryan lied, repeatedly, knowingly and brazenly,” she said.

Here are some of the misleading section of their convention speeches:

Deficit Commission

One of Mr. Ryan’s most pointed attacks on Mr. Obama was on the deficit. “He created a new bipartisan debt commission,” Mr. Ryan noted. “They came back with an urgent report. He thanked them, sent them on their way and then did exactly nothing.”

Left unsaid: Mr. Ryan served on that commission himself, and his opposition to its final proposals helped seal its fate. The panel, known as the Simpson-Bowles deficit commission, made a number of recommendations that Mr. Ryan ultimately opposed on the grounds that they would have raised some taxes while failing to cut enough from health programs. His dismissal of the plan was seen as a significant blow to its chances of success, since it soured other House Republicans on it.

Credit Rating

In his attack on the president’s time in office, Mr. Ryan said: “It began with a perfect AAA credit rating for the United States. It ends with the downgraded America.”

When Standard & Poor’s lowered the nation’s credit rating, it was in large part because of the standoff last year over the debt ceiling — which needed to be raised so the government could borrow money to pay for spending that Congress had already approved. The White House had asked Congress to simply raise the debt ceiling; Mr. Ryan and House Republicans balked at doing so without reaching a deal on significant spending cuts. The ensuing standoff took the nation to the brink of default.

In its statement explaining the downgrade, Standard & Poor’s wrote that “the political brinkmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policy making becoming less stable, less effective and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy.”

Medicare

Mr. Ryan spoke out forcefully against the “$716 billion funneled out of Medicare by President Obama,” without noting that his own past budget plans had counted on the same savings. And he pledged to protect Medicare without explaining how the Romney-Ryan plan would change it. Mr. Romney said that the Medicare cuts would “hurt today’s seniors.” In fact, the savings would come not from trimming benefits for current recipients, but from cutting the projected growth in reimbursements to hospitals and insurers over the next decade. The Medicare debate is shaping up as central to the election: Democrats say that the Romney-Ryan plan to reshape Medicare would force future beneficiaries to pay more for their health care, while Republicans fault Mr. Obama for cutting $716 billion in its projected growth.

Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan have proposed limiting the government’s open-ended financial commitment to Medicare. Under their plan, the government would contribute a fixed amount on behalf of each beneficiary, and future beneficiaries could use that money to buy private insurance or to help pay for coverage under the traditional Medicare program. It would apply only to people currently under 55.

Mr. Ryan’s earlier plans called for capping the rate at which Medicare spending would grow — which analysts from groups including the Kaiser Family Foundation found would lead to higher out-of-pocket costs for future beneficiaries. The Romney campaign now says that their plan would work differently from Mr. Ryan’s original proposal, and would have the flexibility to raise the proposed cap on spending if it does not keep up with costs.

The $716 billion cut to Medicare that Mr. Obama made will reduce payments to health maintenance organizations and hospitals and other health care providers. Mr. Ryan initially counted on the same savings in his budget plans.

G.M.’s Janesville Plant

Mr. Ryan appeared to criticize Mr. Obama for the closing of a General Motors plant in Mr. Ryan’s hometown of Janesville, Wis. — a decision made before the president was elected and before his bailout of the auto industry, which was credited with saving a number of other factories. He noted that Mr. Obama had visited the plant in 2008 and said, “I believe that if our government is there to support you, this plant will be here for another hundred years.”

“Well, as it turned out,” Mr. Ryan said, “that plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day.”

As a candidate, Mr. Obama did give an economic policy speech at the Janesville plant in February 2008. The decision to close the plant was made several months later — as can be seen by a June 2008 letter from Mr. Ryan urging G.M. to reconsider.

It took some time for the plant to shut down, and some work continued there after Mr. Obama was sworn in as president.

The Ryan campaign said Thursday that the issue was not when the plant stopped production, but the fact that it has not reopened — and pointed to accounts of an Obama campaign statement from the fall of 2008 in which he said, “I will lead an effort to retool plants like the G.M. facility in Janesville so we can build the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow and create good-paying jobs in Wisconsin and all across America."

While Mr. Obama bailed out the auto industry, saving jobs, and included money in the stimulus for “green” energy jobs, the Janesville plant did not benefit from his moves.

The Apology Tour

In his floor speech, Mr. Romney repeated his widely debunked charge that Mr. Obama had gone on an “apology tour” on America’s behalf — an accusation he feels so strongly about that he laid out his own worldview in a 2010 book he titled “No Apology.”

But independent fact checkers have called the accusation a distortion, and it is hard to find evidence that Mr. Obama ever said he was sorry for the United States. Even in his speeches after winning the Nobel Peace Prize, Mr. Obama offered a strong defense of American policies, including the war in Afghanistan, which was growing increasingly unpopular in the rest of the world.



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/31/us/politics/ryans-speech-contained-a-litany-of-falsehoods.html

http://www.daily49er.com/opinion/paul-ryan-s-lies-make-for-a-questionable-vice-president-candidate-1.2755637#.UETqQq7yz9s
Nothing here has yet been countered with evidence or reasoned argument. The Ryan speech was so dense with lies it formed a black hole that nearly swallowed up the entire convention. Scientists have never seen a anything quite like it before. The sheer number of utterly obvious lies superpacked into the length of one speech created a new type of matter. Obama couldn't do that if he tried. I admit, he can't hold a candle to Ryan on that score. I heard even Satan wants to know how the Ryan speech was crafted. Pretty clearly he wasn't just massaging the message, nor is it likely he misspoke so many times in a row in one speech. It was a marathon of lies. The breathtaking bald face nature of his fallacious claims make it impossible for them to be anything other than deliberate lies. There's absolutely no defense one can offer for Ryan. The only thing to be done is hijack the thread with as many lame limp wristed attacks as the tea-bagger media can make available for quick and easy pasting.

[onmyknees]

Lie #26....Insisted to Stephanopolis that the health care penalty was not a tax then sent his Solicitor General in before the Supreme Court to argue exactly the opposite, and got 5 Justices to buy in. Even an exasperated Justice Stevens barked..."Today you're before us arguing this is not a tax, tomorrow you'll be arguing it is a tax"

Pretty obvious this is in the same category as "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"




Barry Sings The Blues.........

Obama Goes Toe-To-Toe With Stephanopoulos On "Tax Increases" - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL7ak__MGyw&feature=player_embedded)

[MdR Dave]

From OMKs greatest hits:

This is fucking hilarious. I shouldn't let Ryan's lies get in the way of the larger point he's making. LMFAO! He really wants to be VP and so if he has to make shit up about Obama to get there, well it's in service of a larger point. God, you're pathetic.[/QUOTE]

This is one of the most anti-American things I've read.

Intentionally lying to mislead the voting public- as a matter of campaign policy, no less, is subversion of the democratic process.

[MdR Dave]

Apologies to OMK- there is no hardcore indication that he believes the content of my last post.

[onmyknees]

Lie # 17 * ( asterisk designates a direct surrogate of Obama caught lying) And we know Debbie Downer was scolded by no less than Barry himself...."You work for me"

This is a beauty, and here's the proof in her own words. ................The first is an audio of Debbie Downer saying it......The second is her denying she said it. You libs wouldn't know the truth if it was sleeping next to you. Here's your spokeswoman in all her all her inglorious dishonesty.....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XpHLa6Eg2Uk#!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=J-672ZDeMh4#!

[Prospero]

Debbie Wasserman Schultz actually OMK...

Can't disagree that there seems to be a disconnect between what she said in the audio clip and her later remarks on Fox.

However... do you argue thus that this in any way compares to the huge pack of lies told by Ryan and that this thus trumps the growing catalogue of near criminal behaviour by the GOP in trying to rig another election (following their successful conspiracy to put Bush in the White house the first time)

Also I seriously wonder if you are suggesting that the US position regarding israel should be a key factor in an election that should be about the governance of America?

[Ben]

Brits Shocked at Lies Told by American Politicians at Conventions - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Rvt-6zn88&feature=plcp)

[giovanni_hotel]

Ultraconservative SC Justice Scalia himself didn't agree that the healthcare penalty represented a tax and was given as one of the reasons why he voted against the constitutionality of Obamacare.

And the caller to Ed Schultz who said she was actually working at the Janesville auto plant AFTER it had been shut down sounds like a plant call so right wingers could reference it on message boards to prove Obama 'lied'.

[onmyknees]

Back To the Fact Checking....Now that the horrid employment numbers are out, and the thrill of your convention quickly fades into the reality of debt, unemployment, and food stamps...Let's use some of those indepentent fact checks that Prespero thought so highly of....surely he wouldn't have a problem with that...after all...he used tham as his source. Let's start with some of your convention speakers....

Lie #18

The Lie: Delaware Gov. Jack Markell Said “Mitt Romney Says He Likes To Fire People.” MARKELL: “Let me ask you: What do you think Mitt Romney would have done if that call came in? Well, Mitt Romney already told us what he would do. Mitt Romney says he likes to fire people. And Barack Obama? He likes to see people hired.” (Gov. Jack Markell, Remarks At The Democrat National Convention, Charlotte, NC, 9/5/12)

The Truth:


PolitiFact: “Markell Here Is Cherry-Picking Romney’s Words And Putting Them In A Context Romney Never Intended.” (“When It Comes To Jobless Workers, ‘Mitt Romney Likes To Fire People,’” Romney “Was Talking About What Should Happen If People Aren’t Happy With Their Health Insurance Provider.” “Those words from Romney date back to Jan. 9, 2012, when Romney was speaking about health care — not the economy or jobs — at the Nashua, N.H., Chamber of Commerce. Specifically, he was talking about what should happen if people aren’t happy with their health insurance provider.” (“When It Comes To Jobless Workers, ‘Mitt Romney Likes To Fire People,. Romney Never Said Anything About Liking To Fire People When It Came To Laid-Off Workers. He’s Cherry-Picking Romney’s Words And Putting Them In An Entirely Different Context… We Rate Markell’s Statement False.” “He’s cherry-picking Romney’s words and putting them in an entirely different context. What Romney actually said was, ‘I like being able to fire people who provide services to me,’ and he was talking specifically about switching health insurance companies if a provider isn’t giving good service. We rate Markell’s statement False.” (“When It Comes To Jobless Workers, ‘Mitt Romney Likes To Fire People,’” PolitiFact (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/sep/05/jack-markell/mitt-romney-said-he-likes-fire-people-said-delawar/), 9/5/12)


The Washington Post’ s Glenn Kessler: Romney Was “Making A Point About Choice In Health Care – Not Hiring.” “Here’s what Romney actually said, in a speech to the Nashua Chamber of Commerce: ‘I want individuals to have their own insurance. That means the insurance company will have an incentive to keep you healthy. It also means that if you don’t like what they do, you can fire them. I like being able to fire people who provide services to me. If, you know, if someone doesn’t give me the good service I need, I want to say, you know, that I’m going to go get somebody else to provide that service to me.’ In other words, he was making a point about choice in health care – not hiring.” (Glenn Kessler, “Fact Checking Bill Clinton’s Speech And Other Democrats At The Convention In Charlotte,” The Washington Post’s ” The Fact Checker (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/fact-checking-bill-clintons-speech-and-other-democrats-at-the-convention-in-charlotte/2012/09/06/55b9df68-f7e1-11e1-8b93-c4f4ab1c8d13_blog.html),” 9/6/12)


The New York Times : Markell’s Use Of Romney’s Quote “Was Taken Out Of Context.”“But the quote was taken out of context from a speech Mr. Romney gave in January in Nashua, N.H., when he was talking about the importance of having a choice of health care providers.” (Michael Cooper, Scott Shane, and Annie Lowry, “A Startling Truth Amid The Hyperbole,” The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/06/us/politics/democrats-stretch-the-truth-in-talk-and-text.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss), 9/5/12)


“Some Speakers At The Democratic National Convention Used An Out-Of-Context Quote On Wednesday Night To Give The Misleading Impression That Mr. Romney Enjoys Firing People.” (Michael Cooper, Scott Shane, and Annie Lowry, “A Startling Truth Amid The Hyperbole,” The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/06/us/politics/democrats-stretch-the-truth-in-talk-and-text.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss), 9/5/12)

[onmyknees]

OK....This one's gonna hurt because you all were under the assumption that slick Wilie only lied about things like interns and extra marital afairs. Fraid Not....


Lie # 13



The Lie: Bubba Clinton Said Health Care Costs Are Lower Because Of ObamaCare. CLINTON: “Now, finally, listen to this. For the last two years, after going up at three times the rate of inflation for a decade, for the last two years, health care costs have been under 4 percent in both years for the first time in 50 years. So let me ask you something. Are we better off because President Obama fought for health care reform? You bet we are.” (Bill Clinton, Remarks At The Democrat National Convention, Charlotte, NC, 9/5/12)

The Truth: :


Under Obama, The Average Cost Of Family Health Care Premiums Have Increased From $12,680 To $15,073, An Increase Of 18.9 Percent. (“Employer Health Benefits, 2011 Annual Survey, Exhibit 1.11″ Kaiser Family Foundation (http://ehbs.kff.org/pdf/2011/8225.pdf), 2011)



FactCheck.org: Clinton Was At Fault For Saying ObamaCare Was “Responsible For Bringing Down The Rate Of Increase In Health Care Spending.” “The worst we could fault him for was a suggestion that President Obama’s Affordable Care Act was responsible for bringing down the rate of increase in health care spending, when the fact is that the law’s main provisions have yet to take effect.”The “Lousy Economy” Is Responsible For The Slowdown In Spending, Not ObamaCare. “Actually, the major provisions of the 2010 law – the individual mandate, federal subsidies to help Americans buy insurance, and big reductions in the growth of Medicare spending – haven’t yet taken effect. Experts mainly blame the lousy economy for the slowdown in health care spending. As a report by economists and statisticians at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services reported last year, for example (as quoted in theWashington Post): ‘Job losses caused many people to lose employer-sponsored health insurance and, in some cases, to forgo health-care services they could not afford.’” (Lori Robertson, Eugene Kiely, Brooks Jackson, and Robert Farley, “Our Clinton Nightmare,”Factcheck.org (http://factcheck.org/2012/09/our-clinton-nightmare/), 9/6/12)


The Washington Post’ s Glenn Kessler: Much Of The Health Law Hasn’t Been Implemented, So “The Slowdown Is More Likely Because Of The Lousy Economy.” “Clinton tried to attribute this decline in health costs to the health care law, but much of it has not yet been implemented. Most economists say the slowdown is more likely because of the lousy economy.” (Glenn Kessler, “Fact Checking Bill Clinton’s Speech And Other Democrats At The Convention In Charlotte,” The Washington Post’s ” The Fact Checker (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/fact-checking-bill-clintons-speech-and-other-democrats-at-the-convention-in-charlotte/2012/09/06/55b9df68-f7e1-11e1-8b93-c4f4ab1c8d13_blog.html),” 9/6/12)



Health Affairs: The Recession Is The Real Reason For The Slow Down In Health Care Spending. “Although medical goods and services are generally viewed as necessities, the latest recession had a dramatic effect on their utilization.” (Anne B. Martin, David Lassman, Benjamin Washington, Aaron Catlin And The National Health Expenditures Accounts Team,”Growth In US Health Spending Remained Slow In 2010; Health Share Of Gross Domestic Product Was Unchanged From 2009,” Health Affairs (http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/31/1/208.full.pdf+html), 31, no. 1 (2012):208-219)



FactCheck.org: ObamaCare “Falls Short Of Making Health Care ‘Affordable And Available To Every Single American,’ As Promised.” “Furthermore, the law falls short of making health care ‘affordable and available to every single American,’ as promised. The law provides subsidies to help some Americans buy insurance, expands Medicaid and doesn’t allow insurance companies to exclude persons with preexisting conditions. But still, the director of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office projected 23 million persons will remain uninsured – some because they can’t afford coverage.” At the moment, the new law is making health care slightly less affordable. Independent health care experts say the law has caused some insurance premiums to rise. As we wrote in October, the new law has caused about a 1 percent to 3 percent increase in health insurance premiums for employer-sponsored family plans because of requirements for increased benefits. Last year’s premium increases cast even more doubt on another promise the president has made – that the health care law would ‘lower premiums by up to $2,500 for a typical family per year.’” (D’Angelo Gore, “Promises, Promises,” FactCheck.org (http://factcheck.org/2012/01/promises-promises/), 1/4/12)



The Washington Post’ s Glenn Kessler: “Insurance premiums have gone up, in part because of new benefits mandated by the law.” (Glenn Kessler, “The Fine Print In Obama’s ‘Promises Kept’ Ad,” The Washington Post’s ” The Fact Checker (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/the-fine-print-in-obamas-promises-kept-ad/2012/01/05/gIQAnaktdP_blog.html),” 1/6/12)


“Bad News … Premiums Almost Certainly Will Go Up.” “But the bad news is that, on average, premiums almost certainly will go up – with some people really getting hit with increases.” (Glenn Kessler, “President Obama’s Claim That Insurance Premiums ‘Will Go Down,’” The Washington Post’s ” The Fact Checker (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/president-obamas-claim-that-insurance-premiums-will-go-down/2012/08/09/424048f2-e245-11e1-a25e-15067bb31849_blog.html),” 8/10/12)


Young Adults Will “Have Sticker Shock When They See What Happens To Their Premiums Starting In 2014.” “The law’s provisions, especially the requirement for essential benefits, will almost certainly increase premiums, though tax subsidies will help mitigate the impact for a little over half of the people in the exchanges. But a lot of other people – such as a young male who currently has a plan that does not include all of the required benefits – are likely going to have sticker shock when they see what happens to their premiums starting in 2014.” (Glenn Kessler, “President Obama’s Claim That Insurance Premiums ‘Will Go Down,’” The Washington Post’s ” The Fact Checker (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/president-obamas-claim-that-insurance-premiums-will-go-down/2012/08/09/424048f2-e245-11e1-a25e-15067bb31849_blog.html),” 8/10/12)

[onmyknees]

It gives me great pleasure to reveal lie # 9, once again by Slick Wllie....And you thought it was such a great speech? Why sure you did...it was filled with distortions !


The Lie Former President Bill Clinton: “More Than 500,000 Manufacturing Jobs Have Been Created Under President Obama.” CLINTON: “During this period, more than 500,000 manufacturing jobs have been created under President Obama. That’s the first time manufacturing jobs have increased since the 1990s.” (Former President Bill Clinton, Remarks At The Democrat National Convention, Charlotte, NC, 9/5/12)


The Truth: The Washington Post’ s Glenn Kessler: “Bureau Of Labor Statistics Data Shows That Manufacturing Jobs Have Declined By More Than 500,000.”“Clinton is referring to the period since February 2010, the administration’s preferred date for counting employment figures. If you count from the beginning of Obama’s term, Bureau of Labor Statistics data shows that manufacturing jobs have declined by more than 500,000.” (Glenn Kessler, “Fact Checking Bill Clinton’s Speech And Other Democrats At The Convention In Charlotte,” The Washington Post’s ” The Fact Checker (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/fact-checking-bill-clintons-speech-and-other-democrats-at-the-convention-in-charlotte/2012/09/06/55b9df68-f7e1-11e1-8b93-c4f4ab1c8d13_blog.html),” 9/6/12)

Kinda makes fibs about marathan times seem kinda trivial....no ?

[onmyknees]

Now this is important because it's the entire theme of your convention, and your campaign.....Nevertheless....a lie is a lie, but I guess I give some latitude to a party that doesn't understand the difference between a bakruptcy that addresses the core structural problems of a company like GM , and a liquidation. Bailing out a flwed company and bussiness model might make good political fodder, but GM will be forced into bankruptcy eventually.


The Lie United Auto Workers President Bob King Claimed Romney Said “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt.” KING: “And what did Mitt Romney say? He said ‘Let Detroit go bankrupt.’”(UAW President Bob King, Remarks At The Democrat National Convention, Charlotte, NC, 9/5/12)



The Truth: CNN’s Erin Burnett Clarified That That Was The ” Title The Editors Of The ‘New York Times’ Gave The Piece. Romney Himself Had Titled It ‘The Way Forward For The Auto Industry,’ And Said He Preferred Managed Bankruptcy.”BURNETT: “Mr. King was speaking and he had rousing applause. They all had signs. This is something they are touting as a very big achievement and a claim we have repeatedly heard time and time again at this convention and that is ‘President Obama saved the auto industry,’ Rahm Emanuel has said it, Ohio Governor Ted Strickland has said it, First Lady Michelle Obama has said it and we heard it again tonight from the head of the Auto Workers Union Bob King. One of his lines, ‘what did Mitt Romney say? Let Detroit go bankrupt.’ That is actually from an op-ed in 2008. It was titled, ‘Let Detroit Go Bankrupt,’ but I think we should make it clear that that is the title the editors of the ‘New York Times’ gave the piece. Romney himself had titled it ‘The Way Forward For The Auto Industry,’ and said he preferred managed bankruptcy.” (CNN’s “Reality Check,” 9/5/12)


CNN’s Tom Foreman Says “ Romney Was Really Making An Argument Against The Bailout, Not For The Liquidation, Not For The Wiping Out Of This Company. ”FOREMAN: “Yeah that’s absolutely right and there are a lot of partisans that don’t want to talk about this. Romney was really making an argument against the bailout, not for the liquidation, not for the wiping out of this company. Here’s what he wrote. ‘The American auto industry is vital to our national interest as an employer and as a hub for manufacturing. A managed bankruptcy may be the only path to the fundamental restructuring the industry needs. The federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers rather than seal their fate with a bailout check.’ The fundamental issue here is not wiping out all those jobs, but instead keeping them going, just a different way.” (CNN’s “Reality Check,” 9/5/12)


The Lie United Auto Workers President Bob King Claimed Romney Said “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt.” KING: “And what did Mitt Romney say? He said ‘Let Detroit go bankrupt.’”(UAW President Bob King, Remarks At The Democrat National Convention, Charlotte, NC, 9/5/12)



The Truth: CNN’s Erin Burnett Clarified That That Was The ” Title The Editors Of The ‘New York Times’ Gave The Piece. Romney Himself Had Titled It ‘The Way Forward For The Auto Industry,’ And Said He Preferred Managed Bankruptcy.”BURNETT: “Mr. King was speaking and he had rousing applause. They all had signs. This is something they are touting as a very big achievement and a claim we have repeatedly heard time and time again at this convention and that is ‘President Obama saved the auto industry,’ Rahm Emanuel has said it, Ohio Governor Ted Strickland has said it, First Lady Michelle Obama has said it and we heard it again tonight from the head of the Auto Workers Union Bob King. One of his lines, ‘what did Mitt Romney say? Let Detroit go bankrupt.’ That is actually from an op-ed in 2008. It was titled, ‘Let Detroit Go Bankrupt,’ but I think we should make it clear that that is the title the editors of the ‘New York Times’ gave the piece. Romney himself had titled it ‘The Way Forward For The Auto Industry,’ and said he preferred managed bankruptcy.” (CNN’s “Reality Check,” 9/5/12)


CNN’s Tom Foreman Says “ Romney Was Really Making An Argument Against The Bailout, Not For The Liquidation, Not For The Wiping Out Of This Company. ”FOREMAN: “Yeah that’s absolutely right and there are a lot of partisans that don’t want to talk about this. Romney was really making an argument against the bailout, not for the liquidation, not for the wiping out of this company. Here’s what he wrote. ‘The American auto industry is vital to our national interest as an employer and as a hub for manufacturing. A managed bankruptcy may be the only path to the fundamental restructuring the industry needs. The federal government would propel newly competitive and viable automakers rather than seal their fate with a bailout check.’ The fundamental issue here is not wiping out all those jobs, but instead keeping them going, just a different way.” (CNN’s “Reality Check,” 9/5/12)

[trish]

Distortions and lies are now the stock in trade of the men who would run America and their supporters

Veep wannabe Paul Ryan's so called barnstorming speech to the Republicans last week was jammed full of distoritions about the record of the incumbent president.

The NY times branded the a litany of lies.

Facts Take a Beating in Acceptance Speeches
By MICHAEL COOPER
Published: August 31, 2012

Representative Paul D. Ryan used his convention speech on Wednesday to fault President Obama for failing to act on a deficit-reduction plan that he himself had helped kill. He chided Democrats for seeking $716 billion in Medicare cuts that he too had sought. And he lamented the nation’s credit rating — which was downgraded after a debt-ceiling standoff that he and other House Republicans helped instigate.

And Mitt Romney, in his acceptance speech on Thursday night, asserted that President Obama’s policies had “not helped create jobs” and that Mr. Obama had gone on an “apology tour” for America. He also warned that the president’s Medicare cuts would “hurt today’s seniors,” claims that have already been labeled false or misleading.

The two speeches — peppered with statements that were incorrect or incomplete — seemed to signal the arrival of a new kind of presidential campaign, one in which concerns about fact-checking have been largely set aside.

In recent weeks, the Romney campaign has broadcast television advertisements leveling the widely debunked assertion that Mr. Obama had gutted the work requirements for welfare recipients. The Obama campaign, for its part, ran a deceptive ad saying that Mitt Romney had “backed a bill that outlaws all abortion, even in case of rape and incest,” although he currently supports exceptions in cases of rape, incest or when the life of the mother is at risk.

The growing number of misrepresentations appear to reflect a calculation in both parties that shame is overrated, and that no independent arbiters command the stature or the platform to hold the campaigns to account in the increasingly polarized and balkanized media firmament. Any unmasking of the lies or distortions, the thinking goes, rarely seeps into the public consciousness.

But an interesting question unfolding is whether there is a tipping point at which a candidate becomes so associated with falsehoods that it becomes part of his public persona — which hampered Vice President Al Gore during his run for president in 2000, when his misstatements on the campaign trail were used to stoke the perception that he could not be trusted in general.

In the case of Mr. Ryan’s speech, the jury is still out. It was received rapturously by the Republican Party faithful, but his many questionable assertions ensured that much of the analysis on Thursday focused on his accuracy more than his acumen.

The Obama campaign fanned the flames with a Web video mocking Mr. Ryan, showing anchors from CNN and Fox News questioning some of his statements. And Stephanie Cutter, the president’s deputy campaign manager, was blunt. “There’s no delicate way to say this: last night Paul Ryan lied, repeatedly, knowingly and brazenly,” she said.

Here are some of the misleading section of their convention speeches:

Deficit Commission

One of Mr. Ryan’s most pointed attacks on Mr. Obama was on the deficit. “He created a new bipartisan debt commission,” Mr. Ryan noted. “They came back with an urgent report. He thanked them, sent them on their way and then did exactly nothing.”

Left unsaid: Mr. Ryan served on that commission himself, and his opposition to its final proposals helped seal its fate. The panel, known as the Simpson-Bowles deficit commission, made a number of recommendations that Mr. Ryan ultimately opposed on the grounds that they would have raised some taxes while failing to cut enough from health programs. His dismissal of the plan was seen as a significant blow to its chances of success, since it soured other House Republicans on it.

Credit Rating

In his attack on the president’s time in office, Mr. Ryan said: “It began with a perfect AAA credit rating for the United States. It ends with the downgraded America.”

When Standard & Poor’s lowered the nation’s credit rating, it was in large part because of the standoff last year over the debt ceiling — which needed to be raised so the government could borrow money to pay for spending that Congress had already approved. The White House had asked Congress to simply raise the debt ceiling; Mr. Ryan and House Republicans balked at doing so without reaching a deal on significant spending cuts. The ensuing standoff took the nation to the brink of default.

In its statement explaining the downgrade, Standard & Poor’s wrote that “the political brinkmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America’s governance and policy making becoming less stable, less effective and less predictable than what we previously believed. The statutory debt ceiling and the threat of default have become political bargaining chips in the debate over fiscal policy.”

Medicare

Mr. Ryan spoke out forcefully against the “$716 billion funneled out of Medicare by President Obama,” without noting that his own past budget plans had counted on the same savings. And he pledged to protect Medicare without explaining how the Romney-Ryan plan would change it. Mr. Romney said that the Medicare cuts would “hurt today’s seniors.” In fact, the savings would come not from trimming benefits for current recipients, but from cutting the projected growth in reimbursements to hospitals and insurers over the next decade. The Medicare debate is shaping up as central to the election: Democrats say that the Romney-Ryan plan to reshape Medicare would force future beneficiaries to pay more for their health care, while Republicans fault Mr. Obama for cutting $716 billion in its projected growth.

Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan have proposed limiting the government’s open-ended financial commitment to Medicare. Under their plan, the government would contribute a fixed amount on behalf of each beneficiary, and future beneficiaries could use that money to buy private insurance or to help pay for coverage under the traditional Medicare program. It would apply only to people currently under 55.

Mr. Ryan’s earlier plans called for capping the rate at which Medicare spending would grow — which analysts from groups including the Kaiser Family Foundation found would lead to higher out-of-pocket costs for future beneficiaries. The Romney campaign now says that their plan would work differently from Mr. Ryan’s original proposal, and would have the flexibility to raise the proposed cap on spending if it does not keep up with costs.

The $716 billion cut to Medicare that Mr. Obama made will reduce payments to health maintenance organizations and hospitals and other health care providers. Mr. Ryan initially counted on the same savings in his budget plans.

G.M.’s Janesville Plant

Mr. Ryan appeared to criticize Mr. Obama for the closing of a General Motors plant in Mr. Ryan’s hometown of Janesville, Wis. — a decision made before the president was elected and before his bailout of the auto industry, which was credited with saving a number of other factories. He noted that Mr. Obama had visited the plant in 2008 and said, “I believe that if our government is there to support you, this plant will be here for another hundred years.”

“Well, as it turned out,” Mr. Ryan said, “that plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day.”

As a candidate, Mr. Obama did give an economic policy speech at the Janesville plant in February 2008. The decision to close the plant was made several months later — as can be seen by a June 2008 letter from Mr. Ryan urging G.M. to reconsider.

It took some time for the plant to shut down, and some work continued there after Mr. Obama was sworn in as president.

The Ryan campaign said Thursday that the issue was not when the plant stopped production, but the fact that it has not reopened — and pointed to accounts of an Obama campaign statement from the fall of 2008 in which he said, “I will lead an effort to retool plants like the G.M. facility in Janesville so we can build the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow and create good-paying jobs in Wisconsin and all across America."

While Mr. Obama bailed out the auto industry, saving jobs, and included money in the stimulus for “green” energy jobs, the Janesville plant did not benefit from his moves.

The Apology Tour

In his floor speech, Mr. Romney repeated his widely debunked charge that Mr. Obama had gone on an “apology tour” on America’s behalf — an accusation he feels so strongly about that he laid out his own worldview in a 2010 book he titled “No Apology.”

But independent fact checkers have called the accusation a distortion, and it is hard to find evidence that Mr. Obama ever said he was sorry for the United States. Even in his speeches after winning the Nobel Peace Prize, Mr. Obama offered a strong defense of American policies, including the war in Afghanistan, which was growing increasingly unpopular in the rest of the world.



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/31/us/politics/ryans-speech-contained-a-litany-of-falsehoods.html

http://www.daily49er.com/opinion/paul-ryan-s-lies-make-for-a-questionable-vice-president-candidate-1.2755637#.UETqQq7yz9s
Nothing here has yet been countered with evidence or reasoned argument. The Ryan speech was so dense with lies it formed a black hole that nearly swallowed up the entire convention. Scientists have never seen a anything quite like it before. The sheer number of utterly obvious lies superpacked into the length of one speech created a new type of matter. Obama couldn't do that if he tried. I admit, he can't hold a candle to Ryan on that score. I heard even Satan wants to know how the Ryan speech was crafted. Pretty clearly he wasn't just massaging the message, nor is it likely he misspoke so many times in a row in one speech. It was a marathon of lies. The breathtaking bald face nature of his fallacious claims make it impossible for them to be anything other than deliberate lies. There's absolutely no defense one can offer for Ryan. The only thing to be done is hijack the thread with as many lame attacks as the tea-bagger media can make available for quick and easy pasting.

[trish]

Ryan's newest lie, "No, I never asked for stimulus,"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/16/paul-ryan-stimulus_n_1790573.html

DUFFY - AN EDUCATION - SMOKE WITHOUT FIRE - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rHNOTtShwM)

[thombergeron]

It gives me great pleasure to reveal lie # 9, once again by Slick Wllie....And you thought it was such a great speech? Why sure you did...it was filled with distortions !


The Lie Former President Bill Clinton: “More Than 500,000 Manufacturing Jobs Have Been Created Under President Obama.” CLINTON: “During this period, more than 500,000 manufacturing jobs have been created under President Obama. That’s the first time manufacturing jobs have increased since the 1990s.” (Former President Bill Clinton, Remarks At The Democrat National Convention, Charlotte, NC, 9/5/12)


The Truth: The Washington Post’ s Glenn Kessler: “Bureau Of Labor Statistics Data Shows That Manufacturing Jobs Have Declined By More Than 500,000.”“Clinton is referring to the period since February 2010, the administration’s preferred date for counting employment figures. If you count from the beginning of Obama’s term, Bureau of Labor Statistics data shows that manufacturing jobs have declined by more than 500,000.” (Glenn Kessler, “Fact Checking Bill Clinton’s Speech And Other Democrats At The Convention In Charlotte,” The Washington Post’s ” The Fact Checker (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/fact-checking-bill-clintons-speech-and-other-democrats-at-the-convention-in-charlotte/2012/09/06/55b9df68-f7e1-11e1-8b93-c4f4ab1c8d13_blog.html),” 9/6/12)

Kinda makes fibs about marathan times seem kinda trivial....no ?



You meant "marathon," right? Try saying it out loud before you type it.

Wouldn't it be more "honest" and efficient to just link back to the GOP's site where you cut and pasted all this from?

http://www.gop.com/news/research/lies-more-lies-and-democrats/

Then we could all go over there and point out the distortions in the source document, like selective quotations of Glenn Kessler's Fact Checker column and completely false citations of publicly available CBO analyses.

Presumably, the person who wrote that piece for GOP.com could then actually respond to our critiques. Because pointing out the myriad factual deficiencies in your posts to you is like hollering into a coffee can.

[Prospero]

You meant "marathon," right? Try saying it out loud before you type it.

Wouldn't it be more "honest" and efficient to just link back to the GOP's site where you cut and pasted all this from?

http://www.gop.com/news/research/lies-more-lies-and-democrats/

Then we could all go over there and point out the distortions in the source document, like selective quotations of Glenn Kessler's Fact Checker column and completely false citations of publicly available CBO analyses.

Presumably, the person who wrote that piece for GOP.com could then actually respond to our critiques. Because pointing out the myriad factual deficiencies in your posts to you is like hollering into a coffee can.

Excellent......

[robertlouis]

You meant "marathon," right? Try saying it out loud before you type it.

Wouldn't it be more "honest" and efficient to just link back to the GOP's site where you cut and pasted all this from?

http://www.gop.com/news/research/lies-more-lies-and-democrats/

Then we could all go over there and point out the distortions in the source document, like selective quotations of Glenn Kessler's Fact Checker column and completely false citations of publicly available CBO analyses.

Presumably, the person who wrote that piece for GOP.com could then actually respond to our critiques. Because pointing out the myriad factual deficiencies in your posts to you is like hollering into a coffee can.

:Bowdown::Bowdown::Bowdown::iagree::iagree::iagree :

[buttslinger]

I'm hazy on where I heard it, but there are a couple of businesses whose entire job is to monitor politician's speeches and hicktown radio interviews, the Conservative radio and TV stations, anything that might find an Akin moment, or a redistribution quote.
There are two major ones, one Conservative, one liberal, and it's literally 40 guys in a room with headphones monitoring C-Span, Fox, MSNBC, all the radio talk shows (91% of which are conservative) They sell their findings to the Hannitys and Maddows.
The gender bender community mostly live in urban areas, but if you go out into the country in your pick-up truck, all you'll get on your radio is Country music and Conservative talk radio. Even King Rushbo lost money his first years, he needed some sinister Mr Big to bankroll him til he got an audience, now he's Joseph Goebbels.
If you listened to Rachel Maddow every night, you would know everything you need to know about Amrican Politics. But you'd have to listen to every show, and she's pretty wonky and schoolmarm like.

[hippifried]

All punditry is lies. Otherwise we couold call it news with a straight face.