Running mate?

[Prospero]

One wonders who the great Mitt might pick for his running mate to be Presidet of Amercia.

Maybe Dan Quayle might fit the bill?

Dan Quayle Misspells 'Potato' - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wdqbi66oNuI)

Or fellow Mormon (a convert no less) the intellectual and demagogue par excellance Glen Beck.

[jimbo1974]

The only thing with the same level of IQ / Charisma that i can think of would be an amoeba.

It would be the ideal running mate for "Mitt"

[trish]

The Eliza program.

[Silcc69]

Ted Nugent.

[buttslinger]

Smithers

[robertlouis]

OMK, obviously. :whistle::dancing:

[Silcc69]

OMK, obviously. :whistle::dancing:

They wouldn't touch that fool with a 50 feet pole.

[robertlouis]

They wouldn't touch that fool with a 50 feet pole.

Really??? Are you sure? Remember who they picked last time?

[Ben]

It'll be Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels.... (Or one would think it'd be a strong so-called Christian conservative from the South. Someone like Marco Rubio. He's a good ol' Southern Baptist. He's young. Only 41. To counter Mitt Romney's age. He's 66 next year. And Mitt's religious devotion remains in doubt, as it were.)
There are no Sarah Palins on the horizon. I seriously doubt Romney would pick, say, Michele Bachmann.

[Ben]

One wonders who the great Mitt might pick for his running mate to be Presidet of Amercia.

Maybe Dan Quayle might fit the bill?

Dan Quayle Misspells 'Potato' - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wdqbi66oNuI)

Or fellow Mormon (a convert no less) the intellectual and demagogue par excellance Glen Beck.

Dan Quayle was a very weak VeeP pick. I mean, Bush the Father could've gone with, say, Dick Cheney back then.
Cheney was only in his late 40s. And very conservative. (Bush Sr. was seen as somewhat liberal on social issues.) I think Cheney would've been the far better choice.

Quayle Bloopers - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYJVfd5WRhE)

[BluegrassCat]

Someone like Marco Rubio. He's a good ol' Southern Baptist. He's young. Only 41. To counter Mitt Romney's age. He's 66 next year. And Mitt's religious devotion remains in doubt, as it were.)

Rubio may call himself a Baptist, but he is anything but a "good ol' Southern Baptist." He was a Catholic, a Mormon, then a Catholic again, before getting dual soulship as both a Catholic and a Baptist.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/23/sen-marco-rubios-religious-journey-catholic-to-mormon-to-catholic-to-baptist-and-catholic/

Still, I think it'll be Rubio to help staunch the Latinos fleeing to Obama in Florida and Virginia.

[Drearpphigape]

âñå âèäû êîìïüþòåðíûõ óñëóã: - ôîòî íà äîêóìåíòû - ïå÷àòü...

[Prospero]

Amercia.... great start.

But seriously why not the extreme right winger from Wisconsin. He displays the true republican coours.

[Stavros]

If the past is anything to go by, Romney will choose a Senator with years of experience whom few people have ever heard of, but that's because I had never heard of Jo Biden before he was chosen, so it will depend on how well informed Americans and others are. Having just said that, Romney's claim that you can't run America if you haven't run a business suggests he could choose a businessman, which would be a 'refreshing change' from previous VP's, however I wonder does the possibility that this man -or woman- could become President if the incumbent dies or for some reason cannot go on- get factored in to the decision? Indeed, how is the decision made anyway?

[Prospero]

Fascinating new biography of Lyndon B. Johnson shows the disdain in which he was held at Camelot before the assassination propelled him to office. The Kennedy clan hardly acknowledged him - especially Bobby. So yes - it interesting how a VP gets chosen.

[flabbybody]

It'll be Indiana Governor Mitch Daniels.... (Or one would think it'd be a strong so-called Christian conservative from the South. Someone like Marco Rubio. He's a good ol' Southern Baptist. He's young. Only 41. To counter Mitt Romney's age. He's 66 next year. And Mitt's religious devotion remains in doubt, as it were.)
There are no Sarah Palins on the horizon. I seriously doubt Romney would pick, say, Michele Bachmann.
I saw Governor Daniels interviewed on a sports show back in February when the Colts were about to loose Peyton Manning. He acknowledged Manning's contribution to his state over the years but hinted the team may be best served by going in a new direction.
Yea, I know he was talking football, but he has a folksy quality about him, and I remember how I liked the guy. good choice for VP imo

[Gouki]

what does it matter, Romney and Obama are two horses owned by the same money powers so it does not matter who wins this phony race

[Gouki]

yes Obaaamma was intentionally mispelled ;)

[Gouki]

and Romney's real first name is Willard, he can't even be honest about his first name, what a joke

[broncofan]

I think Sarah Palin will make a great VP. Let me explain. A lot of Republicans said that she was endearing because she wasn't a Washington insider and that she only sounded unpolished because she didn't have much exposure to Washington politics. So, I think with four years of experience in the public eye, watching Russia from her porch and reading whatever publications were placed in front of her she'll be sharp as a tack. Can you imagine how much she's absorbed watching Putin rear his head, re-reading Roe v. Wade and still not understanding the holding? She's probably a machine by now.

[Stavros]

Broken reeds, Broncofan -once broken it can't be repaired, and if Mr Romney did choose her it would speak volums for incompetence before he has even got started. If he does'nt choose a seasoned politician, probably a Senator, or a businessman/woman from the top quartile of US companies, his other option would be someone from the military but as McChrystal apparently voted Democrat in 2008 I don't suppose he is available. Petraeus is widely touted as the next Republican nominee in 2016.

[broncofan]

Broken reeds, Broncofan -once broken it can't be repaired, and if Mr Romney did choose her it would speak volums for incompetence before he has even got started. If he does'nt choose a seasoned politician, probably a Senator, or a businessman/woman from the top quartile of US companies, his other option would be someone from the military but as McChrystal apparently voted Democrat in 2008 I don't suppose he is available. Petraeus is widely touted as the next Republican nominee in 2016.
In all seriousness, these are all good options and likely options. I just want it to be a serious candidate. Someone who, regardless of what I or any other democrat thinks about his/her ideas has done something significant and enriching in his life.

I didn't consider the whole businessman/woman angle but the Republicans have been looking for candidates whose business experience they can tout. It looked for a while that there was some interest in Carly Fiorina, the ex-Hewlett CEO, and I'm not sure what happened there. But it might be a smart angle for them to pick someone from the private sector to sell the small government, low taxes message they've been running; also someone whose experience, whether relevant or not can be used as a way to attack Obama's record on the economy.

[Stavros]

Sound arguments, Broncofan. When does Mr Romney make his announcement?

[broncofan]

Sound arguments, Broncofan. When does Mr Romney make his announcement?
I'm not sure. I just sort of wait until I hear it on the echo chamber here. I haven't been following too closely, but apparently he has narrowed his list down somewhat. The name Marco Rubio is being thrown around somewhat, and he is a Florida Republican.

[buttslinger]

Fascinating new biography of Lyndon B. Johnson shows the disdain in which he was held at Camelot before the assassination propelled him to office. The Kennedy clan hardly acknowledged him - especially Bobby. So yes - it interesting how a VP gets chosen.

The Kennedy's weren't a happy household name down south, and LBJ gave them Texas. Romney's disdain in Tea Party Circles may prompt a surprise announcement.

[Prospero]

Great Pic Buttslinger... which one was the President again?

[Stavros]

I don't want to take this off thread but I wonder if LBJ deserves a biographical study several thousand pages long spread across four or five volumes. Yes, he may have occupied a pivotal moment in US history, but if it is not possible to tell the story of LBJ's political career in under 500 pages then it probably isn't worth telling. Robert Caro is or was a journalist, not a good background for serious history, but even historians are prone to this phenomenon which seems to me to suggest that if the book is not at least 800 pages long its subject matter cannot be that interesting. One of the most brilliant studies of the British Empire, The Dilemmas of Trusteeship, by Kenneth Robinson, is just over 100 pages long, yet has more wisdom in it than 400 pages of much other writing on the subject. Had contemporary authors had to sit at a desk and write their texts by hand, or even by typewriter, I think they would at least be half as long as they are now, word processing has liberated the worst tendencies in writing, after all, a lot of academic books are in essence a long journal article framed by an argumentative introduction, a chapter of background (unnecessary in most subjects to an informed reader), another chapter of pseudo-biographical importance, the main chapter, maybe a follow-up, a conclusion and that's 600 pages of which maybe 100 are actually original. Ian kershaw's two volume study of Hitler is a masterpiece of political biography and is long to take in the momentous events of a short period of history; neither of Robert Service's biographies of Lenin and Trotsky suffer from being one volume studies of relative brevity, which is a relief anyway in the case of Trotsky, and both serve the purpose of giving a full picture of the men and their milieux, and their times, and their legacy. We know that these people breathed, but a breath-by-breath history of their lives is frankly unnecessary.

[Prospero]

That's a valid point of view Stavros. The LBJ biography is almost unreadably long. But it is also beautifully written

[flabbybody]

totally agree with Starvos. I read a review of the bio and it mentioned that LBJ had a pet name for his dick (sorry can't recall what it was).
Can't imagine the type of intellectual hubris it takes to write such a long ass book. And who would read it?

Mark Twain once wrote a long letter to a friend and concluded by saying: "sorry for the lenght of this correspondence... I had no time to write a shorter one"

[fred41]

When a person can read those volumes for pure enjoyment, then that person is destined to live alone.

[Stavros]

totally agree with Starvos. I read a review of the bio and it mentioned that LBJ had a pet name for his dick (sorry can't recall what it was).
Can't imagine the type of intellectual hubris it takes to write such a long ass book. And who would read it?

Mark Twain once wrote a long letter to a friend and concluded by saying: "sorry for the lenght of this correspondence... I had no time to write a shorter one"

Brilliant! Twain is so eminently quotable! Almost as good as Emerson.

I believe Jumbo was LBJ's pet name for his organ. When he appointed Sargent Shriver to direct the Office of Economic Opportunity in 1964 he told him hs priority was to keep out "the crooks, Communists and cocksuckers' which is oddly ironic as Shriver was known in the Kennedy family as the 'House communist' even though he too was Catholic...(cf Allen Matusow, The Unraveling of America, 1984, Ch 9).

[BeardedOne]

It will be Rubio or Jindal. The one that isn't chosen will get a cabinet post and will most likely be in the hotseat for the 2016 ticket.

[flabbybody]

please not Jindal. He's the low life who turned down Federal unemployment money for his state so he could come on Meet The Press to grand stand about how he's such a pure fiscal conservative. The average person in his state makes about $18K a year.
He was trying to make Obama look bad but I remember thinking of what a righteous motherfucker this guy was.

[onmyknees]

One wonders who the great Mitt might pick for his running mate to be Presidet of Amercia.

Maybe Dan Quayle might fit the bill?

Dan Quayle Misspells 'Potato' - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wdqbi66oNuI)

Or fellow Mormon (a convert no less) the intellectual and demagogue par excellance Glen Beck.


Why would you wonder...or even care about such things ? You can't vote and wouldn't vote for him no matter who he chose. The tone of your question reeks of anti Mormonism....are you in line for an anchor job at MSNBC? You've certainly got the resume. We already have one liberal Brit over at CNN and Nancy Grace has better ratings than him, so that may not be a wise career choice...best stay where you are....an
anonymous lurker.
Google Biden's gaffes and then Quayle's....who's the buffoon?

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,1895156,00.html

And this is only 10...we could go on for some time. The man is a fool.

[fastingforlife]

One wonders who the great Mitt might pick for his running mate to be Presidet of Amercia.

Maybe Dan Quayle might fit the bill?

Dan Quayle Misspells 'Potato' - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wdqbi66oNuI)

Or fellow Mormon (a convert no less) the intellectual and demagogue par excellance Glen Beck.

Yes this was very funny, especially since the teachers, who should have known better, misspelled potato on the card, Qualye was given to compare the boys answers to. An omen of things to come for our disastrous education system.

[Prospero]

LOL - to be labelled an anonymous lurker by the jailbird OMK.

You know perfectly well why we care about who runs your country even if we don't a have a vote.

And yes my CV would qualify me for a broadcast job in the US. But i actually have a better professional situation where I am, thanks very much. Mr anonymous jailbird.

[Stavros]

Why would you wonder...or even care about such things ? You can't vote and wouldn't vote for him no matter who he chose. The tone of your question reeks of anti Mormonism....are you in line for an anchor job at MSNBC? You've certainly got the resume. We already have one liberal Brit over at CNN and Nancy Grace has better ratings than him, so that may not be a wise career choice...best stay where you are....an


You can't mean Piers Morgan can you? About as Liberal in your terms as William Buckley although the latter did actually know a lot about politics wheras Morgan has the intellect of a flea, which is one of the reasons why he is in the USA -I seem to recall Mr Morgan as Editor of the Daily Mirror as its circulation declined until he authorised the publication of phoney photographs of British soldiers mistreating their Arab prisoners in Iraq -this followed the record of US atrocities in Abu Ghraib-and was sacked. Having failed as a journalist with real news, he has since branched out into the world where he can create it instead. In the meantime the real photographs and video footage of the British soldiers responsible for the murder of Baha Mousa in Basra has failed to identify who was responsible, curious state of affairs when there are about 6-12 people who know precisely who it was who beat this man to death. Something Piers Morgan was, and remains, too much of a coward to investigate. Please, keep this self-effacing moron in the USA for as long as possible.

[Prospero]

You can't mean Piers Morgan can you? About as Liberal in your terms as William Buckley although the latter did actually know a lot about politics wheras Morgan has the intellect of a flea, which is one of the reasons why he is in the USA -I seem to recall Mr Morgan as Editor of the Daily Mirror as its circulation declined until he authorised the publication of phoney photographs of British soldiers mistreating their Arab prisoners in Iraq -this followed the record of US atrocities in Abu Ghraib-and was sacked. Having failed as a journalist with real news, he has since branched out into the world where he can create it instead. In the meantime the real photographs and video footage of the British soldiers responsible for the murder of Baha Mousa in Basra has failed to identify who was responsible, curious state of affairs when there are about 6-12 people who know precisely who it was who beat this man to death. Something Piers Morgan was, and remains, too much of a coward to investigate. Please, keep this self-effacing moron in the USA for as long as possible.


Well spoken Stavros.

[robertlouis]

LOL - to be labelled an anonymous lurker by the jailbird OMK.

You know perfectly well why we care about who runs your country even if we don't a have a vote.

And yes my CV would qualify me for a broadcast job in the US. But i actually have a better professional situation where I am, thanks very much. Mr anonymous jailbird.


OMK having the chutzpah to call anyone else an "anonymous lurker" made me laugh out loud as well. That he can't see the implicit irony there just adds to his lengthy list of manifest faults.

Or simply a twat, in short.

And he'll come back all too predictably with some weak insult about my songwriting abilities or politics, but will continue to lurk anonymously in the shadows spitting his bile in the usual undirected way. I've said it before, he's the board's resident Gollum.

[Prospero]

Oh and regarding mormonism... got no gripe with it. Not for me. But then nor is Catholicism, Islam, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Sikhism etc etc. i was simply pointing out that the splendidly insane Glen Beck converted to Mormonism.

Gollum's posts reek of ignorance and a prejudice against reason.

[broncofan]

This is not to invite ridicule of any religion but I think that the main reason Mormonism is such a lightning rod is that it is of such recent vintage. Imagine a religion making all sorts of claims after documentary evidence became more reliable. Imagine if Moses' trip up to Sinai were videorecorded, or Mohammed's visions, or Jesus's alleged resurrection. Of course, Joseph Smith did not have camcorders following his every move but at least more is known about his life. We are willing to believe that elderly Middle Eastern men spoke with the deity thousands of years ago, but imagine the audacity of claiming something like that happened in the last millenium in North America. That's just too much!

It's not a coincidence that religion is more believable the further removed in time, place, and accurate reporting.

[broncofan]

Oh and regarding mormonism... got no gripe with it. Not for me. But then nor is Catholicism, Islam, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Sikhism etc etc. i was simply pointing out that the splendidly insane Glen Beck converted to Mormonism.

Gollum's posts reek of ignorance and a prejudice against reason.
Glenn Beck is deranged. Watching his show and keeping a scoresheet of his slippery slope arguments and fantastic assertions is an impossible task. I watched him once to see what the big deal was and it's as you say, he's a crazy man ranting for crazy people.

[hippifried]

Glenn Beck is deranged. Watching his show and keeping a scoresheet of his slippery slope arguments and fantastic assertions is an impossible task. I watched him once to see what the big deal was and it's as you say, he's a crazy man ranting for crazy people.
Lewis Black PWNS Glenn Beck - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1hTZopwvuA)

[Prospero]

On Mormonism - it is NOT a Christian religion. I'm not arguing that. It comes direct from a leading Mormon himself and the author of a book on the faith. From yesterday's New York Times (or daily slime as OMK characterises it).


OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR
I’m a Mormon, Not a Christian
By DAVID V. MASON
Published: June 12, 2012 327 Comments


Times Topic: Mormons (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints)

THANKS to Mitt Romney, a Broadway hit and a relentless marketing campaign by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Mormons seem to be everywhere.

This is the so-called Mormon Moment: a strange convergence of developments offering Mormons hope that the Christian nation that persecuted, banished or killed them in the 19th century will finally love them as fellow Christians.

I want to be on record about this. I’m about as genuine a Mormon as you’ll find — a templegoer with a Utah pedigree and an administrative position in a congregation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I am also emphatically not a Christian.

For the curious, the dispute can be reduced to Jesus. Mormons assert that because they believe Jesus is divine, they are Christians by default. Christians respond that because Mormons don’t believe — in accordance with the Nicene Creed promulgated in the fourth century — that Jesus is also the Father and the Holy Spirit, the Jesus that Mormons have in mind is someone else altogether. The Mormon reaction is incredulity. The Christian retort is exasperation. Rinse and repeat.

I am confident that I am not the only person — Mormon or Christian — who has had enough of the acrimonious niggling from both sides over the nature of the trinity, the authority of the creeds, the significance of grace and works, the union of Christ’s divinity and humanity, and the real color of God’s underwear. I’m perfectly happy not being a Christian. My Mormon fellows, most of whom will argue earnestly for their Christian legitimacy, will scream bloody murder that I don’t represent them. I don’t. They don’t represent me, either.

I’m with Harry Emerson Fosdick, the liberal Protestant minister and former pastor of Riverside Church in Manhattan, who wrote that he would be “ashamed to live in this generation and not be a heretic.” Being a Christian so often involves such boorish and meanspirited behavior that I marvel that any of my Mormon colleagues are so eager to join the fold.

In fact, I rather agree with Richard D. Land, the president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, who calls Mormonism a fourth Abrahamic religion, along with Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Being set apart from Christianity in this way could give Mormonism a chance to fashion its own legacy.

Christianity, you’ll recall, had to fight the same battle. Many early Christians grew up reading the Torah, living the law, observing the Sabbath and thinking of themselves as Jews. They were aghast to find that traditional Judaism regarded them as something else entirely.

In addition, these Christians had to defend their use of additional scripture and their unconventional conception of God and explain why they were following a bumpkin carpenter from some obscure backwater. Early Christianity’s relationship with non-Jews was even worse. Roman writers frequently alluded to rumors about the cannibalistic and hedonistic elements of early Christian rites. One after the other, Christians went to the lions because they found it impossible to defend themselves against such outrageous accusations. They did eat flesh and drink blood every Sunday, after all.

Eventually, Christianity grew up and conceded that it wasn’t authentic Judaism. Lo and behold, once it had given up its claim to Judaism, it became a state religion — cannibalism notwithstanding — and spent the next 1,700 years getting back at all the bullies who had slighted it when it was a child.

Eventually, Mormonism will grow up. Maybe a Mormon in the White House will hasten that moment when Mormonism will no longer plead through billboards and sappy radio ads to be liked, though I suspect that Mr. Romney is such a typical politician that, should he occupy the Oval Office, he’ll studiously avoid the appearance of being anything but a WASP. This could set back the cause of Mormon identity by decades.

Whatever happens in November, I hope Mormonism eventually realizes that it doesn’t need Christianity’s approval and will get big and beat up all the imperious Christians who tormented it when it was small, weird and painfully self-conscious. Mormons are certainly Christian enough to know how to spitefully abuse their power.

David V. Mason, an associate professor of theater at Rhodes College, is the author of “Theatre and Religion on Krishna’s Stage: Performing in Vrindavan” and “My Mormonism: A Primer for Non-Mormons and Mormons, Alike.”

[Stavros]

The problem is, what is a religion? There are something like 400,00 people in the UK alone who claim that their religion is Jedi. There are times when the word ridicule seems married to such concepts; but then there are also Druids and Archdruids. And in the book Wise Blood, also one of John Huston's best films, the lead character Hazel Motes declares the Church of Christ without Christ. Mormons are adherents to a cult begun by a quack called Joseph Smith, if it is a religion, so is Jedi-ism. India still has its river god, its monkey god, its tree god, its elephant god; Cows are revered; there is a temple devoted to Rats. There is room for a lot of belief, but religion? It has become an elusive thing in my opinion, and can now mean more or less anything.

[Prospero]

I wait with interest the first Jedi follower to be nominated to run for US President or to lead a major UK political party.

Mind you the Tories already have Jabba-The-Hut in the cabinet.

[Stavros]

Ho-ho...and I just thought he was a plain-speaking Yorkshireman...

[Prospero]

Haven't you noticed how he hisses when he talks?

[Stavros]

I try to avoid Mr Pickles as much as possible and therefore cannot answer the question.

[Prospero]

New York Times and Washington post today both reports Jeb Bush's son George P Bush as saying his father would be prepared to be Romney's running mate - if invited. Would be a strong candidate and certainly a worry for the Obama camp.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/post/george-p-bush-jeb-would-join-romney-ticket-if-asked/2012/06/10/gJQAHGXaSV_blog.html

[trish]

A wise political choice. Jeb speaks Spanish, his wife is Columban/American, he's an experienced governor and has a solid chance of winning Florida for Rmoney.

[fastingforlife]

A wise political choice. Jeb speaks Spanish, his wife is Columban/American, he's an experienced governor and has a solid chance of winning Florida for Rmoney.

I think Jeb is the best possible choice. He is not quitting an unfinished job, as would be the case for Christie. He is much more in the mold of Father Bush, than brother Bush. He understands the intense family pain that people experience when they have a troubled child.

He is also much more in the mold of a European conservative than a USA conservative. Which would be refreshing.

Oh, and if the teachers sandbagged him the way they did Qualye with wrong answers on the key card, for a spelling bee. Something tells me, he would have corrected the key card himself, before the contest began.

[trish]

I spent a short time googling for some verification of the story that Dan was fed the misspelling of "Potato" by the teachers at the school. Got a link?

[fastingforlife]

I spent a short time googling for some verification of the story that Dan was fed the misspelling of "Potato" by the teachers at the school. Got a link?

Keep looking. When he arrived at the school he was given the answer key by the teachers (which he is holding in the video). Although the words were elementary, you have to have an answer key. When the story first broke, the school was very apolgetic for having screwed him, but that part of the story was quickly forgotten....remember all the "Bushe Qualy in 92" signs.

[trish]

The problem is, what is a religion? There are something like 400,00 people in the UK alone who claim that their religion is Jedi. There are times when the word ridicule seems married to such concepts; but then there are also Druids and Archdruids. And in the book Wise Blood, also one of John Huston's best films, the lead character Hazel Motes declares the Church of Christ without Christ. Mormons are adherents to a cult begun by a quack called Joseph Smith, if it is a religion, so is Jedi-ism. India still has its river god, its monkey god, its tree god, its elephant god; Cows are revered; there is a temple devoted to Rats. There is room for a lot of belief, but religion? It has become an elusive thing in my opinion, and can now mean more or less anything.The definition's elusiveness is a bit troubling when you consider it means "religious freedom" has got be an equally elusive concept. If the state rather than lexicographers decide what is or isn't a religion, then can there really ever be separation between religion and state? The state decides Rastafarianism is not a religion but Mormonism is...is that separation of religion and state?....is it religious freedom? I'm inclined to think not, which is why I think churches should be taxed. Tax exemption for recognized religions and not for unrecognized religions is how the state establishes that one cult as a religion and another isn't. Is Religion really like Art and Pornography; i.e. in the mind of the beholder?...we know it when we see it but we can't define it? Should we allow the state to define it?

[broncofan]

Good point Trish. I think there are a few things we can tie religion to, but it doesn't help prevent interference of religion in social planning. First, the ideological system has to be centered around belief in some deity. Yet, we see exceptions to this in the acceptance of atheism as a religion under Title VII jurisprudence. Let's say then that the inclusion of atheism is based on the fact that it is a rejection or nonbelief in a deity and so related even if the negation. But this weeds out some types of "spirituality" that are ways of living but not necessarily based on belief in a supreme being. Then we can separate belief in the religious tenets from practice of the religion, which might involve certain rituals that nonbelievers find odious.

In my opinion, it's not so much that we need to separate religion from pseudo-religion, but rather categorize those elements of a religion as "sensible whether one believes or not", "not sensible if one does not believe but innocuous" and "odious to secular values". If it falls into the last category then it should not be protected. If it is in the second category and is essentially arbitrary and silly but not harmful, then it is already enough of a concession to make allowance for it.

In looking at the effect of religion on politics rather than the state's interference with religion, I think it has to have a rational secular justification or be struck down as contrary to our Constitution's separation of church and state. This is further than the Court's go, but if something can only be justified based on its inclusion in a book and the convenience of the majority culture subscribing to that book, it is religious. In short, I think the state needs more protection from religion than vice versa.

[robertlouis]

I try to avoid Mr Pickles as much as possible and therefore cannot answer the question.

Wor Eric is simply Jabba the Hutt in a cheap suit, but without the charm.

[Stavros]

Rupert Cornwell in today's Independent suggests Rubio is at least on the list...

The Independent 21st June 2012
Rupert Cornwell
Lifting the veil on one of American politics' most hermetic procedures, Mitt Romney has declared that, contrary to some speculation, he is indeed considering the popular Florida senator Marco Rubio as a possible running mate in November.
Media outlets had reported that the 41-year-old Mr Rubio had not made the expected Republican nominee's vice-presidential shortlist. But during a campaign stop in Michigan, Mr Romney said the story was "entirely false" and that "Marco Rubio is being thoroughly vetted as part of our process."
That Mr Rubio has been under consideration is no secret. He is a hero of conservatives and the Tea Party movement – constituencies that have been wary of Mr Romney in the past. A Hispanic from Florida, he might help sway an ever-more important voting group put off by the candidate's hardline views on immigration.
Then there is the small matter of Mr Rubio's home state, a key prize in November with 29 electoral college votes of the 270 needed to win.
Whether he will be on Mr Romney's final shortlist is less clear. The winnowing began more than two months ago, the moment Rick Santorum, his last credible rival for the nomination, dropped out of the race, and speculation has been feverish ever since.
Other possibilities include the Ohio Senator Rob Portman, the former Minnesota governor Tim Pawlenty, the rising Republican Congressman Paul Ryan, and New Jersey's bluntly spoken governor, Chris Christie.
But speculation is all it is. The Romney campaign prides itself on discipline and ability to keep a secret, and the candidate told reporters on Tuesday that, apart from him, the only person who knows who is on the list is his trusted aide Beth Myers, his chief of staff when he was governor of Massachusetts, who is handling the vetting.
But there have been some clues to Mr Romney's thinking. The biggest of these is his repeated insistence that his running mate will be someone who is ready and qualified to take over as president if necessary. In other words, Mr Romney will bend over backwards not to repeat the mistake made by John McCain, the last Republican nominee, who selected the flashy but woefully unqualified Sarah Palin.
The choice cast serious doubt on the judgement of Mr McCain (who, had he won in 2008, would at 72 have been the oldest man ever to become president) and almost certainly contributed to the size of his defeat.
Under the constitution, a vice-president's formal duties are few – basically they come down to presiding over the Senate, where he casts the deciding vote in the event of a tie – and many have chafed at the limitations. Famously, John Nance Garner, Franklin Roosevelt's vice-president from 1933 to 1941, described the office as "not worth a bucket of warm piss."
In practice, a vice-president's job and influence (or lack of them) are determined by the president himself. Lyndon Johnson, for instance, was virtually excluded from John Kennedy's inner circle. By contrast, under the inexperienced George W Bush, Dick Cheney ran what amounted to a parallel administration, especially during Mr Bush's first term.
A vice-president's biggest responsibility is the unspoken one: the possibility, far from theoretical, that he might have to step into the top job at a moment's notice. Nine of the country's 44 presidents have been sitting vice-presidents catapulted into the Oval Office by the death or resignation of their boss – most recently Gerald Ford after the fall of Richard Nixon in 1974.
By this yardstick, Mr Rubio, the son of Cuban immigrants, may be found wanting. Despite his undoubted charisma, he has been a US senator for barely 18 months, with just eight years in Florida's state legislature before that. That lack of experience could also rule out both Mr Christie and Bob McDonnell, governor of Virginia, both of whom only took office in 2010.
With Jeb Bush, the former Florida governor, having taken himself out of consideration, the most obvious front-runners are Mr Portman, a senator and former congressman who served as George W Bush's budget director, and Mr Pawlenty, a two-term governor of the swing state Minnesota, who has a popular touch that Mr Romney lacks.
But nothing is certain, neither the identity of Mr Romney's running mate, nor the date of an announcement. Most often, the choice is made on the eve of the convention – this year in late August. But Mr Romney, who is cautious and well organised, may act sooner, perhaps as early as next month.
Vice squad: Those who made a difference, for better or worse
Lyndon Johnson:
The Texan LBJ may have been the last vice-presidential nominee who helped the ticket in terms of electoral votes, shoring up the wobbling Democratic south for John Kennedy in 1960. Ironically, Johnson was among the most ineffectual occupants of the office, and hated the job.
Spiro Agnew:
He brought little to the Republican ticket in 1968. But in 1973 he became only the second vice-president in history to resign, after admitting taking bribes when he was governor of Maryland. Agnew's fate prefigured that of his boss Richard Nixon nine months later.
Sarah Palin:
For a few days, John McCain's choice of Palin, then governor of Alaska, seemed inspired. But her pitiful lack of qualification soon became clear. The notion of Palin sitting the proverbial "heartbeat from the presidency" undoubtedly was a factor in his defeat.
Dick Cheney:
Cheney, from rock-ribbed Republican Wyoming with just three electoral votes, was of little electoral help to George W. Bush in 2000. But he went on to become arguably the most powerful and most divisive vice-president in US history
Al Gore:
The selection of Gore in 1992 was a groundbreaker, as Bill Clinton ignored traditional criteria of generational and geographic balance and picked a young southern moderate like himself, on a "Double Bubba" ticket. Gore was also first "modern" – i.e. more consequential – vice-president.
Dan Quayle:
Astonishment greeted George H.W. Bush's pick of the young Indiana Senator as his running mate in 1988. As vice-president Quayle became a figure of fun (famously even misspelling the word "potato" in a school class.) His gaffes may have marginally contributed to Bush's loss in 1992.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/vicepresidents-behind-every-good-candidate-7870089.html

[fastingforlife]

Dan Quayle:
Astonishment greeted George H.W. Bush's pick of the young Indiana Senator as his running mate in 1988. As vice-president Quayle became a figure of fun (famously even misspelling the word "potato" in a school class.) His gaffes may have marginally contributed to Bush's loss in 1992.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/vicepresidents-behind-every-good-candidate-7870089.html[/QUOTE]

He was given an incorrect key card by the teachers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Most likely he was setup to look dumb. Although not the brightest bulb in the bunch, I would like to see how many people would have fallen into the trap Qualye fell into if fed the wrong answers.

[trish]

He was given an incorrect key card by the teachers Link please.

[fastingforlife]

Link please.

Well I watched the news report on TV, where the whole stupidity unfolded. And it was clearly explained as a key card error.

http://www.fivefeetoffury.com/2011/10/27/mark-steyn-wearily-explains-whole-dan-quaylepotatoe-myth-to-remaining-idiot/


I will see if I can locate a copy of the key card from the school.

this isn't what you want, but its a start.

[Prospero]

Remarkable how folk here are springing to the defence of a dullard from way back. Aren't there more important things than trying to prove Quayle was not a nincompoop.

As Trish said, let's at least see the evidence for the claim he was set-up.

So Quayle was given the wrong answer on a card. Would you spell Potato, Potatoe or Tomato Tomatoe because you given a ice of paper saying so. C'mon now....

While you are at it perhaps you could also prove that Spiro Agnew was framed for the misdeeds in Maryland that prompted his resignation.

After all Republicans can't be dumb or dishonest.

And looking at that link I see it is by the remarkably ill-informed Mark Steyn, one of the Right's more ludicrous promulgators of the notion that - within the next few years - Europe will be totally taken over by radical muslims. The man is an obsessive idiot.

[trish]

Steyn is not a source he's a propagator, and biased at that (as evidenced by his use of "educrat"). Link a reliable source. Did Quayle himself claim he was mislead by a key card?
Speaking of cards, it is said that Ronald and Nancy Reagan used Tarot cards to formulate foreign policy (I hope the cards weren't doctored by educrats and teachers).

[Prospero]

You mean Ron and Nancy understood Tarot? I would have thought Snap or Happy Families were more their mark.

[Stavros]

Prospero makes the key point: who needs a card to tell them how to spell something as basic as potato? On the other hand there are people who cannot talk in front of an audience without a script, not just actors either. Judging by recorded examples over the years, it might be a good idea for Presidents, vice-Presidents and candidates thereof to avoid schoolrooms, as they seem to become places they would rather forget.

[fastingforlife]

Prospero makes the key point: who needs a card to tell them how to spell something as basic as potato? On the other hand there are people who cannot talk in front of an audience without a script, not just actors either. Judging by recorded examples over the years, it might be a good idea for Presidents, vice-Presidents and candidates thereof to avoid schoolrooms, as they seem to become places they would rather forget.

An unscripted Obama once said we were a nation of 52 states, among other ludicrous remarks that the media has chosen to restrain. Imagine what would have happened, if Qualye said there were 52 states! He would have been forced to resign.

[fastingforlife]

Food for thought. Since the potato/potatoe incident in the classroom, has the performance of students, at the grammar school level, improved, worsened or remained the same? Afterall, Qualye's visit was all about education in America, but that got lost in the starch.

[trish]

Afterall, Qualye's visit was all about education in America...Don't believe that for a minute. It was all about campaigning and photo ops for the republican pretty boy...and none of that got lost.

[fastingforlife]

Don't believe that for a minute. It was all about campaigning and photo ops for the republican pretty boy...and none of that got lost.

He came across as an apple cheeked version of Pat Sajak, not particularly pretty.

[trish]

Apple cheeked? Folks tell me he was a Mr. Potato head.

[fastingforlife]

Apple cheeked? Folks tell me he was a Mr. Potato head.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! vey good.

[Prospero]

Fastingforlife - it is spelt Quayle. You have misspelt his name each time you mention him. A Freudian slip? Or did someone give you a piece of paper with that spelling?

[fastingforlife]

Fastingforlife - it is spelt Quayle. You have misspelt his name each time you mention him. A Freudian slip? Or did someone give you a piece of paper with that spelling?

That is very interesting, unfortunately I can't trust my own eyes. Quayle, Quayle...got it.