Should the T be in LGBT ?

[maddygirl]

Just curious what you girls/guys think. Do you think T should be included ? I think it should be in separate category, as the other three categories are about sexual orientation, which being trans has nothing to do with. Anyhow, just wondering what other people thought? :) Thanks

[Merkurie]

LGBT is a political thing not a psychological thing.

[maddygirl]

LGBT is a political thing not a psychological thing.
The reason I said that is because they group it together as if it's related. Transsexuality has nothing to do with homosexuality. It's apples and oranges. Not related at all.

[rydermorrison]

I think it should be separate...

[kittyKaiti]

The problem I have is that its grouped together as if it's related. Transsexuality has nothing to do with homosexuality. It's apples and oranges. Not related at all.

But to the world, we're still all fruits. ba-dum-tish

[Jericho]

No, fuck those gay cunts...They'll stab us in the back and leave us stranded every time!

[Jericho]

I can't remember the details, but like they did last time!

[TatianaSummer]

I also think it should be by itself, but because most of the trans people I know are always fighting with each other and always trying to be the best then they feel alone and decided to join a group of LGB which dont even like us that much. If we got united we could accomplish more by ourselves than joining the LGB club.
those are my two pennies

[maddygirl]

I also think it should be by itself, but because most of the trans people I know are always fighting with each other and always trying to be the best then they feel alone and decided to join a group of LGB which dont even like us that much. If we got united we could accomplish more by ourselves than joining the LGB club.
those are my two pennies
Agreed :)

[Ben]

I think it should be separate...

I agree with Ryder.
But, too, shouldn't bisexuals be separate as well???

[maddygirl]

I agree with Ryder.
But, too, shouldn't bisexuals be separate as well???
Yeah, I guess so, but at least bisexuality and homosexuality are related on some level. Unlike transsexuality and homosexuality.

[Ben]

Yeah, I guess so, but at least bisexuality and homosexuality are related on some level. Unlike transsexuality and homosexuality.

But, well, Lesbian and Gay are attracted to the same sex. Whereas, well, we of course know about bisexuality... :) (I, myself, am not overly comfortable with labels. I wouldn't even know where to slot myself, as it were -- :)
I mean, my feelings could change.)

[kittyKaiti]

I agree with Ryder.
But, too, shouldn't bisexuals be separate as well???

I'd say bisexual would be included as LGB, as the three relate to sexual orientation.

Jokes aside, I agree that the T has no relation with the other three. It's all about gender identity.

[Merkurie]

They are only grouped together for the purpose of forming a "united political front" for whatever that is worth. Everyone within the LGBT "community" knows or should know that they are different.

But to the outside world queer is queer regardless if it is sexual or gender orientation.

[TSMichelleAustin]

It doesnt matter we have been discriminated by the GLB Community for years. They just use us to get further with their motives. I have a friend who teaches a seminar at trans convention called Why is the T in GLBT Silent? I think we need to be taking away from the GLB community, we dont get any respect from them! But back before the word Transgendered was coined, trans people were called DQs and a DQ is the one the threw the first punch in Stonewall. So in away we started their movement but still get treated like were a freak show!

[Chase_Mcthirsty]

LGBT is a political thing not a psychological thing.

Politically speaking. Does this help or hurt the TS community in the long run?

As research studies persist, the more Transsexualism distinguishes itself from those other 3 letters.

[Chase_Mcthirsty]

It doesnt matter we have been discriminated by the GLB Community for years. They just use us to get further with their motives. I have a friend who teaches a seminar at trans convention called Why is the T in GLBT Silent? I think we need to be taking away from the GLB community, we dont get any respect from them! But back before the word Transgendered was coined, trans people were called DQs and a DQ is the one the threw the first punch in Stonewall. So in away we started their movement but still get treated like were a freak show!

Good post.

Also keep in mind that there's no "T" in GLAAD either. Isn't that ironic considering what the "D" stands for?

[maddygirl]

It doesnt matter we have been discriminated by the GLB Community for years. They just use us to get further with their motives. I have a friend who teaches a seminar at trans convention called Why is the T in GLBT Silent? I think we need to be taking away from the GLB community, we dont get any respect from them! But back before the word Transgendered was coined, trans people were called DQs and a DQ is the one the threw the first punch in Stonewall. So in away we started their movement but still get treated like were a freak show!
Yeah... agree...

[maddygirl]

They are only grouped together for the purpose of forming a "united political front" for whatever that is worth. Everyone within the LGBT "community" knows or should know that they are different.

But to the outside world queer is queer regardless if it is sexual or gender orientation.
Again, I feel like its the people outside of the trans community that need to know about transsexuality. Grouping us with homosexuals doesn't make any sense and just confuses people who already don't know much about us. That's why so many people think gay guys and transsexuals are somehow related.

[Merkurie]

Again, I feel like its the people outside of the trans community that need to know about transsexuality. Grouping us with homosexuals doesn't make any sense and just confuses people who already don't know much about us. That's why so many people think gay guys and transsexuals are somehow related.

True

[Wendy Summers]

While from an origins of the issue standpoint is true there's little to no connection, I believe it's foolhardy to say transsexuality in the political realm is disassociated with LGB issues. Marriage is a great example.

In many states, even after surgery, a transperson is legally defined by their birth genitals. So from a legal standpoint, a heterosexual transperson would need a homosexual marriage. Gay marriage will be resolved long before our legal right to be recognized for the gender we are.

[yodajazz]

While from an origins of the issue standpoint is true there's little to no connection, I believe it's foolhardy to say transsexuality in the political realm is disassociated with LGB issues. Marriage is a great example.

In many states, even after surgery, a transperson is legally defined by their birth genitals. So from a legal standpoint, a heterosexual transperson would need a homosexual marriage. Gay marriage will be resolved long before our legal right to be recognized for the gender we are.

I agree with this. While t-people need leaders to look out for their rights, specifically, they need to avoid the trap of divide and conquer. That is, getting minority groups to fight one another, instead of the powers that be. Wendy gives a good example. Here in Ohio, the last I heard, was that the sex cannot be changed on the birth certificate for any reason, which includes srs surgery. So then if trans people support gay marriage here, thay are also attacking the birth certificate issue, by making it less important for certain legal rights.

In Iran, trans people are consdered a legal member of their sex, and have such rights, as marriage. However, there is greater discrimination against gays, there than here. I have heard similar stories about China, in the past. So I'm saying that trans people, gain by supporting the rights of everyone. Though there are gays that dont relate to trans issues, gays in general are not the ones, holding trans people back. I have always seen that certain gay bars, are trans friendly, and this is the major place to find, community members. Even crossdressers, who some find repulsive here, practicallly adore transexual women.

And the whole issue aside, I have found that the more you see what you have in common with all people, the greater peace, you will have in your life. And an example of this is that, sometimes trans women fail to grasp that they have similar issues with all women. But they become so focused on their community, they lose some of the power, that comes with being in a group that has half the population on planet earth.

[TSMichelleAustin]

I agree with this. While t-people need leaders to look out for their rights, specifically, they need to avoid the trap of divide and conquer. That is, getting minority groups to fight one another, instead of the powers that be. Wendy gives a good example. Here in Ohio, the last I heard, was that the sex cannot be changed on the birth certificate for any reason, which includes srs surgery. So then if trans people support gay marriage here, thay are also attacking the birth certificate issue, by making it less important for certain legal rights.

In Iran, trans people are consdered a legal member of their sex, and have such rights, as marriage. However, there is greater discrimination against gays, there than here. I have heard similar stories about China, in the past. So I'm saying that trans people, gain by supporting the rights of everyone. Though there are gays that dont relate to trans issues, gays in general are not the ones, holding trans people back. I have always seen that certain gay bars, are trans friendly, and this is the major place to find, community members. Even crossdressers, who some find repulsive here, practicallly adore transexual women.

And the whole issue aside, I have found that the more you see what you have in common with all people, the greater peace, you will have in your life. And an example of this is that, sometimes trans women fail to grasp that they have similar issues with all women. But they become so focused on their community, they lose some of the power, that comes with being in a group that has half the population on planet earth.

Yea I was born in Ohio and you cant change even your name on your birth certificate. On your gay bar comment, gay bars tolerate it because it can generate money. But I know a few gay bars that will turn away people who dont look same on ID. Meaning if you still have male on your ID, or boy name, etc.

[tao1kiku]

Forgot the Q - Seeing LGBTQ (Queer) here as well.

Seperate perhaps, but for the purposes of a unified social and legal rights coalition, fracturing the LGBT into disparate groups would defeat the original purpose. In Canada a MtF transgendered person can have their gender on the passport as female. it too pressure from the LGBT movement as a whole to attain that change in the laws.

[rydermorrison]

Yea I was born in Ohio and you cant change even your name on your birth certificate. On your gay bar comment, gay bars tolerate it because it can generate money. But I know a few gay bars that will turn away people who dont look same on ID. Meaning if you still have male on your ID, or boy name, etc.

wow thats cray...

[onmyknees]

I said as much in a heated discussion on here some time ago, but maybe it was the messenger lol. Since I'm none of the above ( as far as I know) ...take it for what it's worth, but I see no commonality whatsoever other than in a political context...and politics breeds strange bedfellows as they say. Politics is also about coalitions...and therein lies the game. I think my issue was with the term "community". I never ever hear the GLB folks advocating for your issues, but when talking about thier issues...they always use the LGBT label.

[maddygirl]

Hey everybody thanks for your input :)

~Maddy

[yodajazz]

Yea I was born in Ohio ...

I knew I liked you for some reason.

[yodajazz]

I said as much in a heated discussion on here some time ago, but maybe it was the messenger lol. Since I'm none of the above ( as far as I know) ...take it for what it's worth, but I see no commonality whatsoever other than in a political context...and politics breeds strange bedfellows as they say. Politics is also about coalitions...and therein lies the game. I think my issue was with the term "community". I never ever hear the GLB folks advocating for your issues, but when talking about thier issues...they always use the LGBT label.

I think they're saying that all groups under the umbrella deserve certain, legal rights. The last Governor here in OH, included trans people under his "job discrimination protections order", as well as gays. All the letters should have somewhat different needs. So even if we have the different communites, as you say, we still stand for each other's rights.

[Tranny Strip]

It is such a hard topic to discuss. Everyone has diffrent feelings. But I can say there is much support from the Gay Community with orginazations that support the T world. At very early stages in becoming a T most girls rely on these orginazations that are gay affliated becuase Gays most likely would not judge someone that wants to become a T. Some centers have clinics and therapists and outreach groups and advise for the T world.

I thought very long and hard about doing Gay Pride here in NYC. My heart and the girls really wanted to do the Parade and have a Float. So we have commited to do the Gay Pride Parade for the NYC LBGT Community. It is also a very costly thing to do. To have a float and all details needed is costing thousands.

Sunday, June 24th Tranny Strip will almost make HISTORY as almost the FIRST full on TS Party to have a Float in Gay Pride. Yes, there have been many TS girls on Gay Pride Floats....but not a full on TS Party for NYC. There are only 4 promoters here in NYC and no one has done before.

I will post more details when I have them and information. If your in NYC love you to come out and support us on Sunday June 24th at 12 noon as we go down 5th Avenue.

The NYC LBGT Hertiage of Pride Committe is very excited about our decesion to go forward with Pride. They have also asked me to get them more TS girls involved in actvities during Pride that they are doing. That want them to be more visible and have a voice to be heard.

Thanks to Hung Angels and all there support thus far to Tranny Strip. I have become very close with alot of my girls and helped them out anyway possible. Now we all will join forces on that Sunday June 24th and show a Million people on the Parade route some TS POWER!!

xo

[robertlouis]

Great original question, Maddy. I think the situation is different in the UK, where there is quite a lot of political cohesion on the trans side and I don't sense any enmity with lesbians and gays at that political level. Add the fact that there's consistent political goodwill towards extending gay and other sexual minority rights and it therefore makes sense for the various strands of the LGBT collective to co-operate.

Individually, I suppose it's likely to be the same as in the US.

[Stavros]

Historically, transexuals have been ridiculed by both gay men and lesbians -the Stonewall Riots which transformed gender politics in the USA were initiated by transexuals, like Silvia Rivera, who testified the degree to which she and other transexuals, transvestites and drag queens were marginalised by gay men who were horrified at the thought of men in frocks leading 'their revolution' -the Gay Activists Alliance realpolitik argued that they would get nowhere with American society with queens in tow because the stereotype of the 'limp-wristed fag' was precisely what they wanted to get away from to prove to America that gay men were just like every other American. It didn't take long for the revolutionary leaders to meet their guillotine, as it were. Lesbians have been known to despise transexuals, but I dont' know if it is still as hostile as it used to be; are drag kings marginal within lesbian societies?

LGBT to me is a political alliance rather than a meeting place of like minds with shared cultural norms. But, since LGBT people are indeed just a variation of everyone else, it means that LGBT people do not share common interests or ideas about everything. On that basis should there be an L, a G, a B and a T all in one word?

Sylvia Rivera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvia_Rivera)

[MrsKellyPierce]

I don't think it should be separate at all.

We are all fighting for fair rights and they are very similar...

The only reason the LGB, doesn't speak out as much for the transgender community is due to the fact they have no idea how to speak out or understand us or want to offend or make things worse....

FYI unless you are a transsexual it's hard for anyone to understand..they can go to school/be friends/date...but they never truly grasp how a trans-woman feels...

I see plenty of girls complaining, but few actually taken part on LGBT boards/Committees etc...

Being a transgender activist on a pride board, I can tell you that my colleagues were so happy that myself and Jennifer took part on the board so we could LEND a voice to our own community. Jennifer Edwards was the first female post-op Co-Chairwoman of a PRIDE board. I myself was the first transsexual secretary of a PRIDE board..

The LGB - is not against the T, it's just they are scared to speak OUT OF TURN/OFFEND.

We make a more powerful group ALL TOGETHER...not separated...

And you can preach all day to the mainstream about the psychological in and outs of "transsexual" but they will still SEE YOU AS A GAY MAN with BOOBS...

We are better as a large group fighting for the rights of each category. It's great when there is a representative of every category on a board.

I always tell girls you can complain all day, but it wont change anything..

You gotta join boards/commitees - you gotta get involved!

Bitching on facebook/forums does nothing...

Just my thoughts...

[MrsKellyPierce]

AND FYI Transgenders are just as guilty of making fun/vilifying gay men...

Because so many transgenders want to disassociate themselves entirely from gays...

And this is the reason why there is Tension between the two..

[Chase_Mcthirsty]

I don't think it should be separate at all.

We are all fighting for fair rights and they are very similar...

The only reason the LGB, doesn't speak out as much for the transgender community is due to the fact they have no idea how to speak out or understand us or want to offend or make things worse....

FYI unless you are a transsexual it's hard for anyone to understand..they can go to school/be friends/date...but they never truly grasp how a trans-woman feels...

I see plenty of girls complaining, but few actually taken part on LGBT boards/Committees etc...

Being a transgender activist on a pride board, I can tell you that my colleagues were so happy that myself and Jennifer took part on the board so we could LEND a voice to our own community. Jennifer Edwards was the first female post-op Co-Chairwoman of a PRIDE board. I myself was the first transsexual secretary of a PRIDE board..

The LGB - is not against the T, it's just they are scared to speak OUT OF TURN/OFFEND.

We make a more powerful group ALL TOGETHER...not separated...

And you can preach all day to the mainstream about the psychological in and outs of "transsexual" but they will still SEE YOU AS A GAY MAN with BOOBS...

We are better as a large group fighting for the rights of each category. It's great when there is a representative of every category on a board.

I always tell girls you can complain all day, but it wont change anything..

You gotta join boards/commitees - you gotta get involved!

Bitching on facebook/forums does nothing...

Just my thoughts...

Well you do have a point with that part since strength does come in numbers but the fact that they don't call it the LGBT"C" speaks volumes. LOL

Seriously Chaser's, Trades and Tranny lovers aren't all bad. But we have no business in that lot with LGB. And saying that Tgirls do simply because mainstream are all idiots doesn't sit too well with me either. That's not so say that we should turn our backs on either, we're all human. But to be honest I was never to partial the labeling game to begin with.

Homosexual, Bisexual, Lesbian....these terms were all made up with in the last 200 hundred years. And their meanings have changed considerably during this time. Hell even "queer's" true meaning was something that's against the norm and now it just means "homosexual". And yet people refer them as if they've been around since the beginning of time especially when religion is concerned.

And keep in mind before Rome fell, sex was everywhere. I'm talking statues of penises, vagina monuments, gang bang portraits... Then once Rome fell the prudes came in deeming everything as filth.

So if I had a say in this I'd say that I represent the grey area.

[MrsKellyPierce]

Well you do have a point with that part since strength does come in numbers but the fact that they don't call it the LGBT"C" speaks volumes. LOL

Seriously Chaser's, Trades and Tranny lovers aren't all bad. But we have no business in that lot with LGB. And saying that Tgirls do simply because mainstream are all idiots doesn't sit too well with me either. That's not so say that we should turn our backs on either, we're all human. But to be honest I was never to partial the labeling game to begin with.

Homosexual, Bisexual, Lesbian....these terms were all made up with in the last 200 hundred years. And their meanings have changed considerably during this time. Hell even "queer's" true meaning was something that's against the norm and now it just means "homosexual". And yet people refer them as if they've been around since the beginning of time especially when religion is concerned.

And keep in mind before Rome fell, sex was everywhere. I'm talking statues of penises, vagina monuments, gang bang portraits... Then once Rome fell the prudes came in deeming everything as filth.

So if I had a say in this I'd say that I represent the grey area.
Most chasers do nothing to help what they are into..

They vote Republican

They vote against anything to help our community

While all along sucking dick and take it in the ass

Either by a man or a transsexual

[maddygirl]

I don't think it should be separate at all.

We are all fighting for fair rights and they are very similar...

The only reason the LGB, doesn't speak out as much for the transgender community is due to the fact they have no idea how to speak out or understand us or want to offend or make things worse....

FYI unless you are a transsexual it's hard for anyone to understand..they can go to school/be friends/date...but they never truly grasp how a trans-woman feels...

I see plenty of girls complaining, but few actually taken part on LGBT boards/Committees etc...

Being a transgender activist on a pride board, I can tell you that my colleagues were so happy that myself and Jennifer took part on the board so we could LEND a voice to our own community. Jennifer Edwards was the first female post-op Co-Chairwoman of a PRIDE board. I myself was the first transsexual secretary of a PRIDE board..

The LGB - is not against the T, it's just they are scared to speak OUT OF TURN/OFFEND.

We make a more powerful group ALL TOGETHER...not separated...

And you can preach all day to the mainstream about the psychological in and outs of "transsexual" but they will still SEE YOU AS A GAY MAN with BOOBS...

We are better as a large group fighting for the rights of each category. It's great when there is a representative of every category on a board.

I always tell girls you can complain all day, but it wont change anything..

You gotta join boards/commitees - you gotta get involved!

Bitching on facebook/forums does nothing...

Just my thoughts...
Hm, good point, Kelly:). I don't necessarily agree that it should always be together from an eeducational standpoint. As you said people consider us "men with boobs" and that's what I I feel we should work to change, so people can understand us. Although, I think being in the LBGT could probably help us for passing progressive laws and furthering our rights, so I think there's good and bad aspects of both situations. However, I think educating the public and getting more rights as trans people, are closely related, and being in a gay community having people think we're homosexual... isn't helping educate anyone. But, that's just my opinion, but you have a lot of valid points and it's awesome that you do what you do for the lgbt community, you rock girl:).

[Chase_Mcthirsty]

Most chasers do nothing to help what they are into..

They vote Republican

They vote against anything to help our community

While all along sucking dick and take it in the ass

Either by a man or a transsexual

That's a cop out.

Plus you have no proof that every chaser is a republican. Though I will say that republicans are some of the most backwards Hippocrates on earth, most chasers can't afford to be that reserved.

My point isn't really about chasers or republicans though. It's about labels in general.

[Wendy Summers]

That's a cop out.

Plus you have no proof that every chaser is a republican. Though I will say that republicans are some of the most backwards Hippocrates on earth, most chasers can't afford to be that reserved.

My point isn't really about chasers or republicans though. It's about labels in general.

Let's find out -- shall we?

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=67290

[Erika1487]

Yea I was born in Ohio and you cant change even your name on your birth certificate. On your gay bar comment, gay bars tolerate it because it can generate money. But I know a few gay bars that will turn away people who dont look same on ID. Meaning if you still have male on your ID, or boy name, etc.Michelle I am sorry you have had such a hard time changing you legal docs. As a former Republican official I was able to pull levers and have access too Dmv/Probate court/Dept Vital stats. In a 40 day strecth from Nov 5th to late Dec Legal name/Gender marker/Birth cert change. If you need help or need some specifc advice I would be glad to do what I can to help. As far as the T in LGBT I have not been around the gay community long enough to form an opinion one way or another.

[onmyknees]

Most chasers do nothing to help what they are into..

They vote Republican

They vote against anything to help our community

While all along sucking dick and take it in the ass

Either by a man or a transsexual




That's total bull shit.....is that your opinion....or you do have either empirical or antidotal evidence to back that nonsense up? Are you checking the voter registration cards of dudes hitting you in the backside?

Just look at this board....loaded with chasers as you call them....and I'd venture to say they're either apolitical...or liberal. In other words...politics are that furthest thing from their minds. But by all means....keep on creating strawmen...it's easier that way.

I'm more than happy to allow you your opinion, but when you start playing social scientist, or political pollster...I'm gonna call you on it. It's fair to say that your issues are probably not that high on most Republican's list of important issues, but neither is is all that important to the Dem's either....your guy's been behind the desk for nearly 4 years, and has all but buried the LGBT agenda...unless it's to line his pockets with gay political contributions. So instead of blaming and bashing people you don't agree with politically, or telling us how smooth your guy is...why don't you tell us all the things the smooth one has done for your "community".

[buttslinger]

Obama has STOOD UP with the LGBT community like no other President in the history of the United States. A blind man could see that.

[jamiethewild]

This is a good question because i see kelly's point but when you think about it , "t" is like another gender like a third gender until srs not sexuality and L G B is ... then again we are fighting for the same rights.

[MrsKellyPierce]

That's total bull shit.....is that your opinion....or you do have either empirical or antidotal evidence to back that nonsense up? Are you checking the voter registration cards of dudes hitting you in the backside?

Just look at this board....loaded with chasers as you call them....and I'd venture to say they're either apolitical...or liberal. In other words...politics are that furthest thing from their minds. But by all means....keep on creating strawmen...it's easier that way.

I'm more than happy to allow you your opinion, but when you start playing social scientist, or political pollster...I'm gonna call you on it. It's fair to say that your issues are probably not that high on most Republican's list of important issues, but neither is is all that important to the Dem's either....your guy's been behind the desk for nearly 4 years, and has all but buried the LGBT agenda...unless it's to line his pockets with gay political contributions. So instead of blaming and bashing people you don't agree with politically, or telling us how smooth your guy is...why don't you tell us all the things the smooth one has done for your "community".
All the "chasers" I have spoken to are or have been Republican

You see dear - I don't consider men that have a fetish or find tgirls attractive or jerk off to them CHASERS

I thought I made this perfectly clear in my thread that went a 100 or so pages...

A Chaser isn't even a word I use..you guys are using it...

I consider a "chaser" a man who sleeps with countless ts just to sleep with them for their trophy case..

THOSE MEN ARE from what I have spoke to or met...were Republicans/Strong Catholic/church going types to the public/etc

It's easy to play a liberal on a board

It's easy to say you are this, that, and the other on a board...

It's harder to play that role with the people around you...

But thank you for including yourself and the other guys that included themselves as "CHASERS"

lmao

And onmyknees I refuse to have a political debate with a Fox Junky....I'm sorry