Can one be TG without implants and hormones? [Archive] - Page 2 - HungAngels

Heather Moorland

11-02-2011, 07:09 PM

All those that you have listed above abide by the Harry Benjamin protocol, Getting an srs in the US, Thailand, Canada and other advanced countries abide by the Harry Benjamin protocol, if you don't you will not be allowed to get an srs, TRUE FACT. Even then they make a mistake rarely and then ppl end up killing themselves after srs, there is a reason why the t world is categorized in different labels! not everyone is fit for some things, and some qualify for some others don't. A tg would never know or feel how a ts feels, ts have more of a higher extreme level of this GID thereof we are categorized and treated differently...
The Harry Benjamin protocol is to day called WPATH Standards of Care. Ofcause they make mistakes form time to time. They are human after all. However the stastistict I have seen the regrets is under 1%. Most of the regrets are due to medical complications. It is after all a complicated procedure and people should be aware that it can go wrong. Especially if the surgeon does not have enough experience. An other group of regrets are the religious regrets. Their surgery could very well be theraputically well founded but they was just so unlucky as to be hijact by people who told them that what they had done was sinfull and that they will go to hell if they don't transition back. Now I don't say that mistakes wont happen like a person who should have been diagnosed F65 (Fetishism) by mistake has got a F64 (GID) diagnoses but they are wery rare.

You talk about transgender (tg). The term "transgender" is not, and never was an official psychiatric diagnoses. To day it is most widely used as an umbrella term that also incompas transsexuals (ts). I do know that there are different deffinitions of "transgender" but non of it is official in any way.

Knowing how other people feel is somthing we just dont know, whether we are TS or not and whether we have the same literal self identification or not. We know how we feel our selves. And ofcause what we feel is valid. If a person feel that going forward with the transition is a lesser pain than going backward and de-transition. By all means continue.

Heather Moorland

11-02-2011, 07:27 PM

Can one be TG without implants and hormones?

No. Probably not anyone that the majority of people on this site would be interested in.... just sayin.First you have to define things :-)
On this site the girls have different deffinitions of these terms.
The guys on the other hand have this deffinition;
TS,TG,TV,CD,GID,Shemale,what ever = a chick with a dick = object of lust
In the guys deffinition "a chick with a dick" can not be without implants and hormones (at least not practically)
In the girls deffinitions its different. After all for us it is primarily a question of how we feel. The look is only somthing we do for you guys (well sort of) :party:

EvonRose

11-02-2011, 07:36 PM

The Harry Benjamin protocol is to day called WPATH Standards of Care. Ofcause they make mistakes form time to time. They are human after all. However the stastistict I have seen the regrets is under 1%. Most of the regrets are due to medical complications. It is after all a complicated procedure and people should be aware that it can go wrong. Especially if the surgeon does not have enough experience. An other group of regrets are the religious regrets. Their surgery could very well be theraputically well founded but they was just so unlucky as to be hijact by people who told them that what they had done was sinfull and that they will go to hell if they don't transition back. Now I don't say that mistakes wont happen like a person who should have been diagnosed F65 (Fetishism) by mistake has got a F64 (GID) diagnoses but they are wery rare.

You talk about transgender (tg). The term "transgender" is not, and never was an official psychiatric diagnoses. To day it is most widely used as an umbrella term that also incompas transsexuals (ts). I do know that there are different deffinitions of "transgender" but non of it is official in any way.

Knowing how other people feel is somthing we just dont know, whether we are TS or not and whether we have the same literal self identification or not. We know how we feel our selves. And ofcause what we feel is valid. If a person feel that going forward with the transition is a lesser pain than going backward and de-transition. By all means continue.

From a comment below, actions speak louder than words, I as a woman should do my research in the doctors, the surgeons, the complications of srs or hormones. You live life tot try to fulfill a goal and if anything goes wrong you don't just kill yourself, you move forward being a woman, the efforts in itself made me a woman, I want the surgery end of story... And im not ever going to live life in this body. The protocol requires many physiological evaluations because of the risk of complication which BTW if done by a good doctor is low, the point of the evaluation is to make sure one is comfortable to live without the penis that means even with complications, people do srs because "oh i have a vagina now i get to fuck guys" then a complication happens they kill themselves, I was raised in a religious home and I went against it and im completely happy, all of this are excuses to me, you live life for you not the church, not the men, not the family. a true woman would go above and beyond anything to fulfill her dream, if not and they call themselves a true transsexual i question it...

Prospero

11-02-2011, 07:41 PM

A simplistic question. Of course you can be transgendered without the implants and hormones. It's a thing far deeper than physical trappings. its about a sense of being. About who you really are.

EvonRose

11-02-2011, 07:44 PM

First you have to define things :-)
On this site the girls have different deffinitions of these terms.
The guys on the other hand have this deffinition;
TS,TG,TV,CD,GID,Shemale,what ever = a chick with a dick = object of lust
In the guys deffinition "a chick with a dick" can not be without implants and hormones (at least not practically)
In the girls deffinitions its different. After all for us it is primarily a question of how we feel. The look is only somthing we do for you guys (well sort of) :party:

I'm sorry but i go with reality not how I feel, if a cross-dresser told me she was a transsexual I would say no your a cross-dresser, to feel it you must act it, live, it, breath it... There is nothing wrong with labels in my opinion, but the education has to be there to get rid of confusion. The uneducated would just call any ts/tg a cross dresser. That could be offensive! because were not that is what the label is for, were all beautiful and we are all sisters alike, but all these pain and suffering i put my body trough with hormones, and emotional journey I would like credit for it! I am a transsexual accept it or not. This is my label and i'm sticking to it.

actually fuck that im a WOMAN!

tsadriana

11-02-2011, 07:45 PM

I'm sorry but i go with reality not how I feel, if a cross-dresser told me she was a transsexual I would say no your a cross-dresser, to feel it you must act it, live, it, breath it... There is nothing wrong with labels in my opinion, but the education has to be there to get rid of confusion. The uneducated would just call any ts/tg a cross dresser. That could be offensive! because were not that is what the label is for, were all beautiful and we are all sisters alike, but all these pain and suffering i put my body trough with hormones, and emotional journey I would like credit for it! I am a transsexual accept it or not. This is my label and i'm sticking to it.
True so true Evon love ur lips :)
french kiss?:):):):)

Prospero

11-02-2011, 07:47 PM

I wholly accept that you are a transexual Evon and never questioned it for a moment. But isn't a transexual someone born with the "soul" of the opposite gender - man with a woman's soul etc. That is the inner being and the bravest souls are people like you who then embark on the troubled and challenging journey to become that inner person. That's what I meant.

EvonRose

11-02-2011, 08:06 PM

tsadriana

11-02-2011, 08:26 PM

No i was born a woman just with a big clit... what are you talking about?
I was born woman with a small clit :)

BellaBellucci

11-02-2011, 08:32 PM

The Harry Benjamin protocol is to day called WPATH Standards of Care. Ofcause they make mistakes form time to time. They are human after all. However the stastistict I have seen the regrets is under 1%. Most of the regrets are due to medical complications. It is after all a complicated procedure and people should be aware that it can go wrong. Especially if the surgeon does not have enough experience. An other group of regrets are the religious regrets. Their surgery could very well be theraputically well founded but they was just so unlucky as to be hijact by people who told them that what they had done was sinfull and that they will go to hell if they don't transition back. Now I don't say that mistakes wont happen like a person who should have been diagnosed F65 (Fetishism) by mistake has got a F64 (GID) diagnoses but they are wery rare.

You talk about transgender (tg). The term "transgender" is not, and never was an official psychiatric diagnoses. To day it is most widely used as an umbrella term that also incompas transsexuals (ts). I do know that there are different deffinitions of "transgender" but non of it is official in any way.

Knowing how other people feel is somthing we just dont know, whether we are TS or not and whether we have the same literal self identification or not. We know how we feel our selves. And ofcause what we feel is valid. If a person feel that going forward with the transition is a lesser pain than going backward and de-transition. By all means continue.

All this protest and talk of Harry Benjamin and his outdated care model. So how much over 50 are you? You conveniently ignored this question the first time. 5 years? 10 years? When are you going to show us your face?

My read is that you're an over-the-hill CD rationalizing his own existence, and I'm sticking to it. You should be proud of who you are instead of trying to be something else, but you're not, because you yourself clearly find TS superior or else you wouldn't work so hard to bring us down to your level. :geek:

~BB~

Heather Moorland

11-02-2011, 08:43 PM

.. if a cross-dresser told me she was a transsexual I would say no your a cross-dresser,..Sure but you would have to know the person well to tell if it was a cross-dresser. Even if you was a psychiatrist you would need severel hours of sessions with the individual to give the proper diagnoses. And why would a cross-dresser lye about this? How often does it happen?

Most of the cross-dressers I have come across :) doesn't want to be assosiated with transsexuals at all. They think transsexuals are crackpots.

EvonRose

11-02-2011, 09:02 PM

Heather Moorland

11-02-2011, 09:03 PM

All this protest and talk of Harry Benjamin and his outdated care model. So how much over 50 are you? You conveniently ignored this question the first time. 5 years? 10 years? When are you going to show us your face?

My read is that you're an over-the-hill CD rationalizing his own existence, and I'm sticking to it. You should be proud of who you are instead of trying to be something else, but you're not, because you yourself clearly find TS superior or else you wouldn't work so hard to bring us down to your level. :geek:

~BB~
I didnt start the Hairy Benjamin talk. No i am not over 50. You can go to the link in my signature. I think I have stated my age there somwhere. As for my face take a look at my profile page on this forum.

You can stick to what ever you like and stick it where ever you like it. I dont selfidentify as a cross-dresser and I don't think that transsexuals is supereor to anything. I selfidentify as a person with a female soul that happen to be born in a male body. That is why I get sad when somebody says I am not.

EvonRose

11-02-2011, 09:10 PM

I didnt start the Hairy Benjamin talk. No i am not over 50. You can go to the link in my signature. I think I have stated my age there somwhere. As for my face take a look at my profile page on this forum.

You can stick to what ever you like and sick it where ever you like it. I dont selfidentify as a cross-dresser and I don't think that transsexuals is supereor to anything. I selfidentify as a person with a female soul that happen to be born in a male body. That is why I get sad when somebody says I am not.

Just for the record just because i say your a tg doesn't mean i don't think your not a woman, I was just trying to separate the labels and dissecting what they were but like i stated b4 there are many tg more woman than ts, its just i'm talking about the extreme measures ts take compared to tg women.

BellaBellucci

11-02-2011, 09:11 PM

I didnt start the Hairy Benjamin talk. No i am not over 50. You can go to the link in my signature. I think I have stated my age there somwhere. As for my face take a look at my profile page on this forum.

You can stick to what ever you like and sick it where ever you like it. I dont selfidentify as a cross-dresser and I don't think that transsexuals is supereor to anything. I selfidentify as a person with a female soul that happen to be born in a male body. That is why I get sad when somebody says I am not.

So let me get this straight: you don't think transsexuals are superior, but you get offended when someone calls you a CD? :?

~BB~

Heather Moorland

11-02-2011, 09:17 PM

So let me get this straight: you don't think transsexuals are superior, but you get offended when someone calls you a CD?
No I get offendet when you;

most of us girls then judge each other to help ensure our best chances of acceptance from mainstream society by weeding out the fakes and embarrassments,
This is Ideology. Who are you to judge who is fake or not? And even if an other TS embarras you, she still has a rigth to be a TS.
You are an embarrassments to the transgender comunity. You are just one of those HBS-bigots. I honestly didn't expect to find any of you in a forum like this. After all shemale porn and sexuality in general is usually not political correct amongst your hardline HBS-bigot freinds.
Fortunately it is not most girls that judge each other in the way you do.

BellaBellucci

11-02-2011, 09:41 PM

No I get offendet when you;

This is Ideology. Who are you to judge who is fake or not? And even if an other TS embarras you, she still has a rigth to be a TS.

Again, 'she' has the right to call 'her'-self whatever she wants, but 'she' still doesn't have the right to force us to accept 'her' self-identification, particularly if there have been no actions performed to validate the words. The irony in that statement is I normally take people at face value unless I think they're purposefully misidentifying themselves... and I think you are.

You are an embarrassments to the transgender comunity. You are just one of those HBS-bigots. I honestly didn't expect to find any of you in a forum like this. After all shemale porn and sexuality in general is usually not political correct amongst your hardline HBS-bigot freinds.
Fortunately it is not most girls that judge each other in the way you do.

There are other metrics of judgment besides the HBS, so please direct me to a statement in which I supported HBS/WPATH or NTSF:SD:SUV or whatever they want to call it now? I could care less about it. I didn't get my medical care with an official diagnosis of GID, and I don't intend to.

~BB~

BellaBellucci

11-02-2011, 09:48 PM

Sure but you would have to know the person well to tell if it was a cross-dresser. Even if you was a psychiatrist you would need severel hours of sessions with the individual to give the proper diagnoses. And why would a cross-dresser lye about this? How often does it happen?

Most of the cross-dressers I have come across :) doesn't want to be assosiated with transsexuals at all. They think transsexuals are crackpots.

CD's lie all the time! Why? Because by intentionally confusing our movement to socially validate a medical condition with their self-hatred, gender-doubt, and lack of consistent identity, CD's are grasping at our coattails to gain the same level of acceptance. It makes me sick. if you want the acceptance, then do the fucking work. If you don't care about that, then more power to you, but you still can't force me to share your delusional worldview. It's very simple. You're TS? Prove it. :geek:

As to CD's who want nothing to do with transwomen: it's called jealousy. Get to know that feeling well. It will be with you for the rest of your life.

Have you ever seen a TS jealous of a CD's lifestyle unless it involved their male-sized paychecks?

~BB~

rydermorrison

11-02-2011, 10:11 PM

Heather Moorland

11-02-2011, 10:31 PM

There are other metrics of judgment besides the HBS, so please direct me to a statement in which I supported HBS/WPATH or NTSF:SD:SUV or whatever they want to call it now? I could care less about it. I didn't get my medical care with an official diagnosis of GID, and I don't intend to. You mean you dont know the differens between "SOC-HBS" and WPATH com on and you want me to take you serious. You don't even have a diagnoses of GID. You are just full of crap

CD's lie all the time!honestly :)

BellaBellucci

11-02-2011, 10:32 PM

You mean you dont know the differens between "SOC-HBS" and WPATH com on and you want me to take you serious. You don't even have a diagnoses of GID. You are just full of crap
honestly :)

If you self identify with a psychiatric diagnoses
You belong in a mental hospital!

... like taking candy from a baby. :party:

~BB~

Ben

11-02-2011, 10:32 PM

I'm sorry but i go with reality not how I feel, if a cross-dresser told me she was a transsexual I would say no your a cross-dresser, to feel it you must act it, live, it, breath it... There is nothing wrong with labels in my opinion, but the education has to be there to get rid of confusion. The uneducated would just call any ts/tg a cross dresser. That could be offensive! because were not that is what the label is for, were all beautiful and we are all sisters alike, but all these pain and suffering i put my body trough with hormones, and emotional journey I would like credit for it! I am a transsexual accept it or not. This is my label and i'm sticking to it.

actually fuck that im a WOMAN!

Interesting. Thanks Evon....

Ben

11-02-2011, 10:43 PM

CD's lie all the time! Why? Because by intentionally confusing our movement to socially validate a medical condition with their self-hatred, gender-doubt, and lack of consistent identity, CD's are grasping at our coattails to gain the same level of acceptance. It makes me sick. if you want the acceptance, then do the fucking work. If you don't care about that, then more power to you, but you still can't force me to share your delusional worldview. It's very simple. You're TS? Prove it. :geek:

As to CD's who want nothing to do with transwomen: it's called jealousy. Get to know that feeling well. It will be with you for the rest of your life.

Have you ever seen a TS jealous of a CD's lifestyle unless it involved their male-sized paychecks?

~BB~

So, one has to make the transformation, to live it. And not pretending to be one, as it were.
Could one say that CDs are phony, as it were? Could the word phony be applied?
It goes back to my original point of a CD wanting to be seen, demanding to be seen, as a woman.
But, clearly, as some point out, this will not happen.... And from the various points put forward this is understandable.

BellaBellucci

11-02-2011, 10:46 PM

Heather Moorland

11-02-2011, 10:57 PM

... like taking candy from a baby. :party:

~BB~ This indicates that you are not interested in the deper nuances of the argument. You are just playng chess.

tsadriana

11-02-2011, 10:57 PM

By the way how will be the weather on weekend?

BellaBellucci

11-02-2011, 11:04 PM

This indicates that you are not interested in the deper nuances of the argument. You are just playng chess.

No, I've rejected your 'deeper nuances' as the fanciful and psychologically necessary subconscious creations of CD's such as yourself used to validate your existences (read: akin to belief in religion). So? What's your point? :?

You can believe whatever you want, but if you're so convinced, then nobody should have to agree with you.

http://diagorasofmelos.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/house_md_religious_en_1015.jpg

~BB~

tsadriana

11-02-2011, 11:06 PM

religious where?

Heather Moorland

11-02-2011, 11:24 PM

So, one has to make the transformation, to live it. And not pretending to be one, as it were.
Could one say that CDs are phony, as it were? Could the word phony be applied?
It goes back to my original point of a CD wanting to be seen, demanding to be seen, as a woman.
But, clearly, as some point out, this will not happen.... And from the various points put forward this is understandable.
Forgive me for being ignorent but where I come from Cross-dressers don't want to be women so I was wondering if all these categories that you are listing are really concepts that has to be understood within the framework of the porn industry and not as terms from the transgender scene in general. If so it makes much more sence.
A ts or a shemale will then be a person who undergo surgery in order to look like a woman (except from SRS because a shemale has to have a cock other wise the guys don't find it interesting) Where as a CD in your deffinition is somone who fails in that regardles of genderidentity.

tsadriana

11-02-2011, 11:28 PM

Cdressers is just someone who loves woman chlotes and nothing more ....nothing wrong with that .cDRESSERS is that category who has fantasy in having sex in woman chlotes ....so why such a big drama?cdressers is a man dress in woman chlotes simple as that.

Heather Moorland

11-02-2011, 11:37 PM

Cdressers is just someone who loves woman chlotes and nothing more Yes Thats the normal deffinition in the generel transgender scene but some of your girlfreinds claim that cd's wants to be women and that looks to me like a contradiction. So I thought that this is because they use the words different. As maybe some kind of professional terminology.

EvonRose

11-03-2011, 12:15 AM

Forgive me for being ignorent but where I come from Cross-dressers don't want to be women so I was wondering if all these categories that you are listing are really concepts that has to be understood within the framework of the porn industry and not as terms from the transgender scene in general. If so it makes much more sence.
A ts or a shemale will then be a person who undergo surgery in order to look like a woman (except from SRS because a shemale has to have a cock other wise the guys don't find it interesting) Where as a CD in your deffinition is somone who fails in that regardles of genderidentity.

Oh trust me with or without it guys would be interested in me, because i am a woman and men don't see me anything but, and i refuse to let them see me just for my extra thing... that's why i don't do porn not that there's anything wrong with but ive always felt eefy showing it...

EvonRose

11-03-2011, 12:20 AM

Yes Thats the normal deffinition in the generel transgender scene but some of your girlfreinds claim that cd's wants to be women and that looks to me like a contradiction. So I thought that this is because they use the words different. As maybe some kind of professional terminology.

my question to you is this.

do you want your sex change?

Are you ready to lose and live your life without your penis?

do you not like to use your penis during intercourse?

this are questions asked during you evaluation, and if you say no to 2 or more you probably wont be qualified as a transsexual.

Mayrah

11-03-2011, 12:42 AM

my question to you is this.

do you want your sex change?

Are you ready to lose and live your life without your penis?

do you not like to use your penis during intercourse?

this are questions asked during you evaluation, and if you say no to 2 or more you probably wont be qualified as a transsexual.

First 2 for me is yes and 3th a no, and i cant believe this thread has so many pages :)

natina

11-03-2011, 12:47 AM

whats the difference in your mind between a

dragqueen,crossdresser,transvestite,transgendered and a transsexual?

EvonRose

11-03-2011, 12:52 AM

whats the difference in your mind between a

dragqueen,crossdresser,transvestite,transgendered and a transsexual?

Drag queen, cross dressers and transvestite are in one group

transgender varies from girls who have everything feminized but not have srs.

transsexuals are girls who feminize everything but either have or is getting the srs.

tsadriana

11-03-2011, 12:55 AM

Drag queen, cross dressers and transvestite are in one group

transgender varies from girls who have everything feminized but not have srs.

transsexuals are girls who feminize everything but either have or is getting the srs.
ts,cds,tvs, enough to look in their pics and i make myself an short idea:)

TRANSEXUAL TOP BELICE

11-03-2011, 01:12 AM

At the end we just pretty boys lol

Heather Moorland

11-03-2011, 01:15 AM

my question to you is this.

do you want your sex change?
Possibly but not nesseserily. I would like to have a female body. Not being a man without a penis. Thats my primary consern. So the rest will have to be a success before I make the decission.

Are you ready to lose and live your life without your penis?
My bigest worry in that regard is the ability to have children. It has been an issue in the past, but today I am comfordable with not having that. Besides that, I sit down peing anyway. Actually never liked standing up.

do you not like to use your penis during intercourse?
I do not use my penis during intercourse. I never liked that. As a matter of fact I have never had a succesfull sexual relation to a female because of that. When I masturbate I use a vibrator.

this are questions asked during you evaluation, and if you say no to 2 or more you probably wont be qualified as a transsexual.
I know. I have allready seen a therapist.

TRANSEXUAL TOP BELICE

11-03-2011, 01:20 AM

I dont think there is therapy to tell what sex to be...

Everyone should feel how ever they want to...

I am my self , and i make my self a pret lady outside and inside

But we all have diferent concepts about that

doctor screw

11-03-2011, 01:22 AM

EvonRose

11-03-2011, 01:25 AM

At the end we just pretty boys lol

NO.... were not.. if that's the case then stay a gay fem boy...lol..

TRANSEXUAL TOP BELICE

11-03-2011, 01:28 AM

Thats why most gay boys

Are very femenine. Even act over the top

But they still have man body

But truly tg are a diferent story

doctor screw

11-03-2011, 01:30 AM

Thats why most gay boys

Are very femenine. Even act over the top

But they still have man body

But truly tg are a diferent story

U B MAH Personal Jesus

EvonRose

11-03-2011, 01:33 AM

Thats why most gay boys

Are very femenine. Even act over the top

But they still have man body

But truly tg are a diferent story

im a ts i dunno anything about being a tg

rydermorrison

11-03-2011, 05:22 AM

Drag queen, cross dressers and transvestite are in one group

transgender varies from girls who have everything feminized but not have srs.

transsexuals are girls who feminize everything but either have or is getting the srs.

I disagree.. their are tons of transsexuals who dont want to get srs... its not because they're scared of losing that vestige of maleness either... we just just dont want a vagina...

rydermorrison

11-03-2011, 05:36 AM

also the scientific community lumps cd's,drag queens and transvestites into the transgender group as well...

EvonRose

11-03-2011, 08:54 AM

I disagree.. their are tons of transsexuals who dont want to get srs... its not because they're scared of losing that vestige of maleness either... we just just dont want a vagina...

Transsexuals who don't want to get srs are considered transgender... Gender means how you present yourself outside of your form, sex is the action taken to change your genitalia , like sex of a male or female. Getting srs would then make one the opposite gender due to srs making them transex.

Bottom line to make things easier you call transsexual ppl who would get the srs.

If no srs they are transgender but transgenders are also split up in many groups.

You cannot call someone who chooses to keep their penis transex its just not scientifically correct! they have not transcended to the opposite sex role, they are stilll considered male by sex.

Teddy P.

11-03-2011, 09:48 AM

Heather Moorland

11-03-2011, 01:00 PM

I don't have a dog in this fight, but if you aren't on hormones or don't have breast implants aren't you just a cd? On a sidenote, the girls who get on hormones before puberty sets in end up looking the best.
To the general public maybe, but if a person has a medical problem so she can not take hormones and deos not have the mony for cosmetic operations is she any less transgender because of that. Does these superficial things change what she feels inside?

Heather Moorland

11-03-2011, 01:26 PM

I disagree.. their are tons of transsexuals who dont want to get srs... I know severel people who selfidentify as transsexuals who does not want to have SRS. Some because they are to old and some because they don't feel they need a risky operation. (after all you have to dilate regulary in order to keep the vagina open and there will be wounds and stuff. Sometimes it will go wrong and you wil get a hole between the vagina and the anus. Yuck!) So in that way you are right. But Evon is allso rigth when it comes to the literal meaning of the word "trans-sexual" in this context "trans" = change and "sex" = genitalia.

also the scientific community lumps cd's,drag queens and transvestites into the transgender group as well... The scientific community does not use the word "transgender." If you are talking about GID the drag queens and the fethishistic transvestites don't go in that category from a scientific standpoint.

The word "transgender" is used by the transgender comunity with different meanings. In the begining (1970'is) it use to mean those transsexuals who did not want SRS. Today some people call that "transgenderist," where as the term "transgender" is today more commonly used to define the entire comunity of gender incongruence. (TS,transgenderist,TV) Some people count drag queens and the fethishistic crossdressers in it to. Others don't.

BellaBellucci

11-03-2011, 06:55 PM

But Evon is allso rigth when it comes to the literal meaning of the word "trans-sexual" in this context "trans" = change and "sex" = genitalia.

Wrong and desperately self validating, as usual.

Rightfully expanding on your obtuse definition then, a transsexual must change their sex characteristics (i.e. hormones, breast implants, legal identity) to be considered such by science and, for the most part, society, with the exception of self-hating men in dresses. SRS is only one piece of the puzzle. And you're creating a false equivalency between those who can't use hormones and those who won't.

Secondary sex characteristic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_sex_characteristic)

A-duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh. GTFO and take your crossdressing homeboys with you or I'll just keep taunting you with your own words like I have been for the last week.

Fucking mental midget. :yayo:

~BB~

rydermorrison

11-03-2011, 10:52 PM

rydermorrison

11-03-2011, 10:54 PM

ur lumping ppl like myself and bella into a group with men... thats ludicrous

Ben

11-03-2011, 10:57 PM

What are the specific side effects &/or adverse effects of taking hormones???????

EvonRose

11-03-2011, 11:14 PM

well what criteria r u using? if a persons id says female and theyve legally changed their gender as it pertains to the law then who the fuck r u to tell them different? gender has nothing to do with whats between your legs...

your right gender has nothing to do between your legs however sex does...

that's why if you don't have your srs your transgender, if you have srs your transsexual... The group your with are not men they are transgender.

BellaBellucci

11-03-2011, 11:16 PM

your right gender has nothing to do between your legs however sex does...

that's why if you don't have your srs your transgender, if you have srs your transsexual... The group your with are not men they are transgender.

*sigh* :yayo:

Secondary sex characteristic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_sex_characteristic)

You must not be paying attention. I forgive you. :lol:

~BB~

tsadriana

11-03-2011, 11:17 PM

This crap is still going?

EvonRose

11-03-2011, 11:22 PM

*sigh* :yayo:

Secondary sex characteristic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_sex_characteristic)

You must not be paying attention. I forgive you. :lol:

~BB~

Look gender is different from sex... how complicated is that to you?

You cannot legally be a female by sex unless you go trough with the operation, this making you have female rights such as with marriage, legalities, and etc.

If you have a penis your sex is still male, even with the secondary characteristic of breast, hips etc. transsexuals are a small group in the t world that get a vagina... this by science is true...

let me make this much more simple...

mtf+vagina= transsexual

mtf+penis=transgender

This could not be any easier, if you don't get it your in denial about your mtf status. lol..

it is complicated subject tough...

rydermorrison

11-03-2011, 11:31 PM

Look gender is different from sex... how complicated is that to you?

You cannot legally be a female by sex unless you go trough with the operation, this making you have female rights such as with marriage, legalities, and etc.

If you have a penis your sex is still male, even with the secondary characteristic of breast, hips etc. transsexuals are a small group in the t world that get a vagina... this by science is true...

let me make this much more simple...

mtf+vagina= transsexual

mtf+penis=transgender

This could not be any easier, if you don't get it your in denial about your mtf status. lol..

it is complicated subject tough...

umm no hun ur ignorant of the law. in va a letter from my doctor stating that ive been irreversibly changed by hrt and can no longer function as a male is completely sufficent for the gender change. it happens all the time. and for ur information drag queens, crossdressers and transvestites are still men.

rydermorrison

11-03-2011, 11:32 PM

gender and sex. r the exact same thing...

BellaBellucci

11-03-2011, 11:34 PM

Look gender is different from sex... how complicated is that to you?

You cannot legally be a female by sex unless you go trough with the operation, this making you have female rights such as with marriage, legalities, and etc.

I hate to argue with you, but...

I have an 'F' on my driver's license. For all legal purposes other than marriage and prison, I'm a female. This is because I did the work. I went to my therapy appointments, I took my hormones, I changed all of my secondary sex characteristics, and if I could afford to do so, would change my primary characteristic. How is that complicated to you?

If you have a penis your sex is still male, even with the secondary characteristic of breast, hips etc. transsexuals are a small group in the t world that get a vagina... this by science is true...

We could still be considered male by an uneducated mecical establishment, however we're usually not because we have female hormones running through our systems and all female secondary sex characteristics. But neither of us are doctors (although I'd love to play one on TV), so it doesn't pertain to this discussion anyway.

let me make this much more simple...

mtf+vagina= transsexual

mtf+penis=transgender

This could not be any easier, if you don't get it your in denial about your mtf status. lol..

mtf+vagina = legally and medically female (you can't see a chromosome)

mtf+penis = also legally and medically female, but with one male sex characteristic

transgender = either an umbrella term to describe all gender 'outlaws' or one to describe people who transition their gender, but not their body, i.e. no breasts, no hormones, ambivalent identity

it is complicated subject tough...

So is it complicated or simple? :?

~BB~

BellaBellucci

11-03-2011, 11:36 PM

gender and sex. r the exact same thing...

Also not true. Gender refers to the social construct built around physical sex, and as I've said, physical sex is determined by both primary and secondary characteristics which vary wildly even among cisgendered people.

~BB~

EvonRose

11-03-2011, 11:42 PM

I hate to argue with you, but...

I have an 'F' on my driver's license. For all legal purposes other than marriage and prison, I'm a female. This is because I did the work. I went to my therapy appointments, I took my hormones, I changed all of my secondary sex characteristics, and if I could afford to do so, would change my primary characteristic. How is that complicated to you?

We could still be considered male by an uneducated mecical establishment, however we're usually not because we have female hormones running through our systems and all female secondary sex characteristics. But neither of us are doctors (although I'd love to play one on TV), so it doesn't pertain to this discussion anyway.

mtf+vagina = legally and medically female (you can't see a chromosome)

mtf+penis = also legally and medically female, but with one male sex characteristic

transgender = either an umbrella term to describe all gender 'outlaws' or one to describe people who transition their gender, but not their body, i.e. no breasts, no hormones, ambivalent identity

So is it complicated or simple? :?

~BB~

drivers license is not your birth certificate, you cannot get married legally nor would you be accepted medically a female even if you have secondary female characteristic. The licenses is to prove you are female mentally and to gain respect of female status and you are female by gender..

neither one of us are doctors.... but guess what my mom is! so I should know alot about this subject since i took hormones at 12 and transitioned earlier than most...were not talking about uneducated people! i'm talking about us educated women...

Chromosome has nothing to do with sex, it is genitalia and genitalia alone! some gg are born with male chromosome and high levels of testosterone but they are female by sex because of their genitalia...

a mtf with a penis is certainly not considered female by science they are still male!!!! are you getting your education trough actual doctors or wiki?

its simple to me but sound too complicated to you... your making something so effin simple more complicated Bella!

EvonRose

11-03-2011, 11:46 PM

umm no hun ur ignorant of the law. in va a letter from my doctor stating that ive been irreversibly changed by hrt and can no longer function as a male is completely sufficent for the gender change. it happens all the time. and for ur information drag queens, crossdressers and transvestites are still men.

Duh! yes your female, that's your gender role now because of the actions you taken with hormones but your sex is not female unless you get the srs...Your still a woman and your far from male. but because you have a penis or you choose to keep it your transgender! you transcended to a new gender role, but sex wise your not female. By law you need srs to have a sex of female... thus making you transsexual.

tsadriana

11-03-2011, 11:47 PM

bleah bleah bleah and lalalalalallala yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy oi wow lalalalal hubba bubba transexual yes ola lalalalalalalal mi amore transexul and like this forever and no one ever will understand what is transexual .lol

rydermorrison

11-03-2011, 11:49 PM

BellaBellucci

11-03-2011, 11:50 PM

drivers license is not your birth certificate, you cannot get married legally nor would you be accepted medically a female even if you have secondary female characteristic. The licenses is to prove you are female mentally and to gain respect of female status and you are female by gender..

Really? That's interesting considering that I've repeatedly had to prove my former 'maleness' to doctors who then usually choose to dismiss it for a multitude of reasons, some medical, and some privacy related. The very reason we're allowed to have 'male' equipment and 'female' on our licenses is because even our incompetent government understands that our concepts of sex and gender are unnecessarily rigid.

a mtf with a penis is certainly not considered female by science they are still male!!!! are you getting your education trough actual doctors or wiki?

Actually, I've always educated my doctors. It's funny how all of these professionals agree with my self-assessment in terms of sex and gender afterwards. Either I'm right, or I have the most trusting doctors on the planet, because when I need feminine care, insofar as I need it, such as hormones, mammograms, etc, guess what?! I get it. No questions asked. Also, my doctors use my legal 'F' on all of their paperwork. They must all be quacks, right?

Hell, being a woman even helped me win custody of my son. A 'father' in my position at the time of my divorce would have had a much harder time getting his child for more than weekends, but my son considered me his primary mother.

its simple to me but sound too complicated to you... your making something so effin simple more complicated Bella!

You're the one who contradicted yourself within the same post. I'm merely a mirror.

in virginiià u can change ur birth certificate to reflect ur new gender using the prerequisites i mentioned earlier.. then u can marry a person of the opposite gender LEGALLY!!!! i find it hard to take i seriously regardless because u dont aknowledge cd's or transvestites men. even though they themselves consider themselves men.

That's not always the case, hence these ridiculous recurring arguments. :lol:

~BB~

EvonRose

11-03-2011, 11:57 PM

in virginiià u can change ur birth certificate to reflect ur new gender using the prerequisites i mentioned earlier.. then u can marry a person of the opposite gender LEGALLY!!!! i find it hard to take i seriously regardless because u dont aknowledge cd's or transvestites men. even though they themselves consider themselves men.

uh no! To be recognized as a female with a male partner in marriage you need name change, and sex change, with proof of surgery! Legally you can marry without but the status could evaporate as law changes because without the sex change and legal court documents your considered in a partnership. which is gay marriage basically... Go ahead and look it up, VA follows this law.

rydermorrison

11-04-2011, 12:02 AM

BellaBellucci

11-04-2011, 12:04 AM

uh no! To be recognized as a female with a male partner in marriage you need name change, and sex change, with proof of surgery! Legally you can marry without but the status could evaporate as law changes because without the sex change and legal court documents your considered in a partnership. which is gay marriage basically... Go ahead and look it up, VA follows this law.

This will become irrelevant as we march toward marriage equality. There's no use in arguing the semantics of transsexuals in marriage because the institution itself is set to change anyway, as it should, partly on the basis of the blurring of both sex and gender lines, and in recognition of transsexual and intersexed people.

That only leaves sex for purposes of prison, and if you're going there, you have much bigger problems.

~BB~

rydermorrison

11-04-2011, 12:04 AM

as well as a name change.. obviously..

BellaBellucci

11-04-2011, 12:11 AM

Q: What's the difference between a CD and a TS?

A: About 5 years.

That's pretty significant, or else what is transition but an exercise in futility? :geek:

~BB~

EvonRose

11-04-2011, 12:11 AM

Really? That's interesting considering that I've repeatedly had to prove my former 'maleness' to doctors who then usually choose to dismiss it for a multitude of reasons, some medical, and some privacy related. The very reason we're allowed to have 'male' equipment and 'female' on our licenses is because even our incompetent government understands that our concepts of sex and gender are unnecessarily rigid.

Actually, I've always educated my doctors. It's funny how all of these professionals agree with my self-assessment in terms of sex and gender afterwards. Either I'm right, or I have the most trusting doctors on the planet, because when I need feminine care, insofar as I need it, such as hormones, mammograms, etc, guess what?! I get it. No questions asked. Also, my doctors use my legal 'F' on all of their paperwork. They must all be quacks, right?

Hell, being a woman even helped me win custody of my son. A 'father' in my position at the time of my divorce would have had a much harder time getting his child for more than weekends, but my son considered me his primary mother.

You're the one who contradicted yourself within the same post. I'm merely a mirror.

That's not always the case, hence these ridiculous recurring arguments. :lol:

~BB~

Well taken actions to change your secondary characteristics i would hope you have to prove your former maleness, or your not successful in your transitioning. Like I said your talking about a government id which allows you to be considered a woman, but your birth certificate, ss is still make with your legal male name. You cannot change this unless you have your srs. this still makes you male by sex but your female regardless...

you have a f on your medical documents but your medical documents still have your birth certificate in record they should know your actuall sex if they looked it up with you ss number. You need all this feminine care as do all women your not a man!!! your a woman and should need these cares because with hormones we have female complications such as breast cancer, blood clots, etc.. but guess what you still have your penis so you have male complications as well... prostate cancer, testicular, etc

Congratulations! but i doubt its your female status the courts probably knew you were a better fit parent..

I understand my transsexualism, that's why i have a problem ppl calling me a tg because i don't want to have a penis. and studied this years and years with my mom.

EvonRose

11-04-2011, 12:12 AM

uhh no ur wrong! ive researched and even spoke. to law clerks. a doctor's note like i said earlier is completely sufficient to change ur sex legally here in va. i speak from experience. u speak from a textbook.

well show me proof that this law guy wrote this down i can at least show you textbook proof, so in my opinion its more credible..

EvonRose

11-04-2011, 12:15 AM

This will become irrelevant as we march toward marriage equality. There's no use in arguing the semantics of transsexuals in marriage because the institution itself is set to change anyway, as it should, partly on the basis of the blurring of both sex and gender lines, and in recognition of transsexual and intersexed people.

That only leaves sex for purposes of prison, and if you're going there, you have much bigger problems.

~BB~

As much as we want to be equal I doubt it will be legal for all states... Prove me wrong please! Nothing more I want to see than for equality but even racism which was so 100 years ago still exist. so discrimination is always there... INMO don't crucify me!

rydermorrison

11-04-2011, 12:26 AM

well show me proof that this law guy wrote this down i can at least show you textbook proof, so in my opinion its more credible..

i dont have the energy to go to court and get a written statement then scan it to upload to the internet to prove it..also my energy for this thread is pretty much done...i'll fight the good fight another day.. later ya'll!

BellaBellucci

11-04-2011, 12:27 AM

ss is still make with your legal male name. You cannot change this unless you have your srs.

Absolutely, 100% wrong. First of all, a name change is a name change and it's required that one update SS, and while they won't let you change gender at SS without a court order (usually after surgery), I read recently that they don't disclose it anymore in background checks, although I'm admittedly having trouble finding the article.

You need all this feminine care as do all women your not a man!!! your a woman and should need these cares because with hormones we have female complications such as breast cancer, blood clots, etc.. but guess what you still have your penis so you have male complications as well... prostate cancer, testicular, etc

If you're on hormones, the chance is almost -zero- that you'll develop testicular or prostate cancer, just like a born female. And you and I both know the changes don't stop there. Moreover, SRS doesn't include a prostatectomy, so by your definition, a post-op isn't female either.

I understand my transsexualism, that's why i have a problem ppl calling me a tg because i don't want to have a penis. and studied this years and years with my mom.

Well, we agree on that much.

~BB~

EvonRose

11-04-2011, 12:43 AM

Absolutely, 100% wrong. First of all, a name change is a name change and it's required that one update SS, and while they won't let you change gender at SS without a court order (usually after surgery), I read recently that they don't disclose it anymore in background checks, but I'm admittedly having trouble finding the article.

If you're on hormones, the chance is almost -zero- that you'll develop testicular or prostate cancer, just like a born female. And you and I both know the changes don't stop there. Moreover, SRS doesn't include a prostatectomy, so by your definition, a post-op isn't female either.

Well, we agree on that much.

~BB~

You can change your name on a government issued id and by law we as trans people are allowed, the law is not the same with legal documents such as being female by sex in terms of legalities, and marriage. don't get is confused... How do you know they don't do back ground check sweety, if you are on insurance they will look at your ss what are you talking about? unless you pay for all those medical check up yourself then you must be rich, because by experience its not cheap!!! they do back ground check for other things as well such as rent, car payment etc... don't lie to yourself.

What kind of doctors told you this? tough chances are low its nothing close to zero, do you know the prostate cases in transsexuals its not that rare. tough very low, as long as you still have those intact such as testicles, and penis you can get the same complications male can have that is why medically your still male so they know about these things.

having an srs does not make one genetically female and still male by birth and of prostate is intact could still get it, but the action taken to change the vagina makes them legally a female by sex. Did I ever say your a man if you keep your penis? we are all women just the labels are different to what extreme one goes trough it doesn't make one less or more of a woman.

EvonRose

11-04-2011, 12:50 AM

i dont have the energy to go to court and get a written statement then scan it to upload to the internet to prove it..also my energy for this thread is pretty much done...i'll fight the good fight another day.. later ya'll!

well then you cannot convinced me otherwise, but thanks for sharing ryder!!

Erika1487

11-04-2011, 12:54 AM

:smh at this thread.....

How can we talk about equality when we can't agree how to define ourselves?? At the end of the day aren't we all sisters under the same flag:confused:

libertynet

11-04-2011, 01:38 AM

crossdreser>> shemales trainnies

Heather Moorland

11-04-2011, 01:45 AM

:smh at this thread.....

How can we talk about equality when we can't agree how to define ourselves?? At the end of the day aren't we all sisters under the same flag:confused:No we are not sisters. We are Ladies you know. (Just joking) :party:

I completely agree with you. All the labels mean different things to different people.
The legal acceptans of our gender identity is also diifferent depending on where we live. In Denmark you don't get legal change unless you are "castrated" (The danish law uses the word "castrated" not SRS, though in practic that is the same). Correct me if I am mistaken but I think that in Tennessee a transgender woman who has had SRS can not legally marry a cis-gendered man even if her legal status has been changed to "female" by an other state. Isn't that correct?
Even doctors and therapists enterpret the IDG-10 64.* diagnoses differently depending on their own prejudice and the legal, ideological and financial framework that their clinik works under.

Is it important that we agree on the lables? I think it is more important that we respect each others gender identity?

EvonRose

11-04-2011, 01:53 AM

No we are not sisters. We are Ladies you know. (Just joking) :party:

I completely agree with you. All the labels mean different things to different people.
The legal acceptans of our gender identity is also diifferent depending on where we live. In Denmark you don't get legal change unless you are "castrated" (The danish law uses the word "castrated" not SRS, though in practic that is the same). Correct me if I am mistaken but I think that in Tennessee a transgender woman who has had SRS can not legally marry a cis-gendered man even if her legal status has been changed to "female" by an other state. Isn't that correct?
Even doctors and therapists enterpret the IDG-10 64.* diagnoses differently depending on their own prejudice and the legal, ideological and financial framework that their clinik works under.

Is it important that we agree? I think it is more important that we respect each others gender identity?

I agree with you on this actually, different places of the world would have their own law, i'm not talking about that tough i am talking about the fact that trans who get the srs medically are called transsexuals or if you would call it women due to the fact that they get srs, or castrated call it however you want. But this does not mean srs women are better or prettier or more womanly or more passable... this is just a term to define castrated trans woman.

MdR Dave

11-04-2011, 01:54 AM

crossdreser>> shemales trainnies
You have the math wrong. And spelling.

Crossdresser "=" shemale "trainee".

Though sometimes it's a simple as crossdresser= crossdresser.

)yeah, you probably meant "leads to" but who knows. . Plus that's not funny!)

BellaBellucci

11-04-2011, 02:03 AM

:smh at this thread.....

How can we talk about equality when we can't agree how to define ourselves?? At the end of the day aren't we all sisters under the same flag:confused:

No. We're not. That's the whole point of this thread at which you're shaking your head.

~BB~

BellaBellucci

11-04-2011, 02:16 AM

How do you know they don't do back ground check sweety, if you are on insurance they will look at your ss what are you talking about? unless you pay for all those medical check up yourself then you must be rich, because by experience its not cheap!!! they do back ground check for other things as well such as rent, car payment etc... don't lie to yourself.

What I said was that I read an article that said Social Security is no longer disclosing gender in background checks (if I find it again, I'll post it). I didn't say people weren't doing background checks, but those that are are only allowed to get certain information because we have identity theft and privacy laws.

What kind of doctors told you this? tough chances are low its nothing close to zero, do you know the prostate cases in transsexuals its not that rare. tough very low, as long as you still have those intact such as testicles, and penis you can get the same complications male can have that is why medically your still male so they know about these things.

So which is it? 'Not that rare' or 'very low?' Actually, it doesn't even matter. The point was that hormones make one chemically female, with all of the benefits and disadvantages therein. How can one be medically male if they're chemically female? :?

At worst, I can see a transsexual being medically classified as 'T,' but not 'M,' despite operative status.

having an srs does not make one genetically female and still male by birth and of prostate is intact could still get it, but the action taken to change the vagina makes them legally a female by sex. Did I ever say your a man if you keep your penis? we are all women just the labels are different to what extreme one goes trough it doesn't make one less or more of a woman.

We're still genetically male. Check. I got it. But it doesn't matter. Transsexuals are still chemically female and you can't see a chromosome. Therefore, for most medical purposes, it's our health needs as females that need to come first. A transwoman should get regular checkups but if she can only have one screening for cancer, it ought to be for breast cancer, not prostate cancer.

In fact, some use estrogen to battle cancer of the prostate.

MONASH UNIVERSITY
TUESDAY, 02 MARCH 2010

Prostate cancer is usually treated by
withdrawing testosterone from the patient
- but while this kills most of the cells, the
few that remain lead to recurrent, incurable
disease.

Monash University biomedical scientists have identified a new way to treat castrate resistant cells in prostate cancer sufferers - the most common cancer in Australian men.
For more than 60 years the main way to treat men with prostate cancer has involved removing the hormones that fuel growth of the cancer cells. Although initially effective this treatment inevitably fails and when the tumour growth resumes, the disease in incurable. The team, from the Prostate and Breast Cancer Research Program, has discovered a way to treat these potentially fatal diseased cells, which remain in a patient after they have undergone hormone treatment.

http://www.sciencealert.com.au/news/20100303-20666.html

~BB~

Erika1487

11-04-2011, 02:32 AM

No we are not sisters. We are Ladies you know. (Just joking) :party:

I completely agree with you. All the labels mean different things to different people.
The legal acceptans of our gender identity is also diifferent depending on where we live. In Denmark you don't get legal change unless you are "castrated" (The danish law uses the word "castrated" not SRS, though in practic that is the same). Correct me if I am mistaken but I think that in Tennessee a transgender woman who has had SRS can not legally marry a cis-gendered man even if her legal status has been changed to "female" by an other state. Isn't that correct?
Even doctors and therapists enterpret the IDG-10 64.* diagnoses differently depending on their own prejudice and the legal, ideological and financial framework that their clinik works under.

Is it important that we agree on the lables? I think it is more important that we respect each others gender identity?

:iagree: 100%

Correct me if I am mistaken but I think that in Tennessee a transgender woman who has had SRS can not legally marry a cis-gendered man even if her legal status has been changed to "female" by an other state. Isn't that correct?
Heather I would have to look that up, but many states including my own have very stringet marraige laws that, say SRS = Marraige. No srs = no marriage. The most a person can hope for is that the old bastards die out soon and the yonger genaration of political leaders make things better.

AmyDaly

11-04-2011, 02:40 AM

fun fact about TS marriage in california: They go by the gender on your Driver's License when you get married.

Erika1487

11-04-2011, 02:50 AM

No. We're not. That's the whole point of this thread at which you're shaking your head.

~BB~

So let me ask, Someone like Jesse Flo who does not do HRT, make the cut:confused: She is much more of a TS than me, and I have been 11 1/2 months HRT. She was rasied female, and looks more female than many ts out there. Hell there are some damn complete bears that get SRS that are still male looking. I think for a medical reasons I understand what you and Evon are getting at, but lets be honest being passable start with prior to hrt(implants and surgries aside)goes a long way, in what most consider the most important part of what seperates the TS/Tv community?

BellaBellucci

11-04-2011, 02:51 AM

fun fact about TS marriage in california: They go by the gender on your Driver's License when you get married.

True, but in the long-term, not legally viable. Sure, they'll perform the ceremony, but your marriage can be challenged in court under Prop 8.

Fucking Mor(m)ons.

8 : The Mormon Proposition | Trailer US (2010) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezwIZo-hKiI)

~BB~

EvonRose

11-04-2011, 02:54 AM

So let me ask, Someone like Jesse Flo who does not do HRT, make the cut:confused: She is much more of a TS than me, and I have been 11 1/2 months HRT. She was rasied female, and looks more female than many ts out there. Hell there are some damn complete bears that get SRS that are still male looking. I think for a medical reasons I understand what you ans Evon are getting at, but lets be honest being passable start with prior to hrt(implants and surgries aside)goes a long way, in what most consider the most important part of what seperates the TS/Tv community?

ts/tg/tv has nothing to do with pass ability, i have been saying this over and over but ppl choose to ignore it because they are insecure about their labels, some ts are manly as fuck but they choose to get srs thus medically making them transex...i am a transsexual who also happens to be 100 percent passable, but that does not mean all ts are as passable either.

BellaBellucci

11-04-2011, 02:54 AM

So let me ask, Someone like Jesse Flo who does not do HRT, make the cut:confused: She is much more of a TS than me, and I have been 11 1/2 months HRT. She was rasied female, and looks more female than many ts out there. Hell there are some damn complete bears that get SRS that are still male looking. I think for a medical reasons I understand what you ans Evon are getting at, but lets be honest being passable start with prior to hrt(implants and surgries aside)goes a long way, in what most consider the most important part of what seperates the TS/Tv community?

Jesse has breast implants and a consistent (probably legal) female identity. This has nothing to do with looks, although I question the sanity of those who get SRS but still look like men. I feel bad for them because, knowing that they'll never be accepted socially as female, they rush out to get SRS to become so legally. To me, that's an exploitation of a technicality. Sure, you might be a woman inside, but one must seriously consider the consequences of late transition versus just dealing with their male body.

~BB~

EvonRose

11-04-2011, 02:55 AM

True, but in the long-term, not legally viable. Sure, they'll perform the ceremony, but your marriage can be challenged in court under Prop 8.

Fucking Mor(m)ons.

8 : The Mormon Proposition | Trailer US (2010) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezwIZo-hKiI)

~BB~

I just came trough an article and shes right.... this can get complicated especially with all the will and crap you have to sign during and after...

AmyDaly

11-04-2011, 03:09 AM

True, but in the long-term, not legally viable. Sure, they'll perform the ceremony, but your marriage can be challenged in court under Prop 8.

Fucking Mor(m)ons.

8 : The Mormon Proposition | Trailer US (2010) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezwIZo-hKiI)

~BB~

Yea, you could never sue for alimony, but you can get married and enjoy the benifits that come with it that don't come with domestic partnership.

ed_jaxon

11-04-2011, 03:15 AM

The three of you babes need to come chat.

BellaBellucci

11-04-2011, 03:48 AM

Yea, you could never sue for alimony, but you can get married and enjoy the benifits that come with it that don't come with domestic partnership.

Only at the state level. The Feds still wouldn't consider you married because of DOMA.

~BB~

AmyDaly

11-04-2011, 04:00 AM

Only at the state level. The Feds still wouldn't consider you married because of DOMA.

~BB~
I bet they would never question your marriage status though when it comes to tax time.

BellaBellucci

11-04-2011, 04:15 AM

I bet they would never question your marriage status though when it comes to tax time.

I don't know about anybody else, but the tax break was a huge reason I got married to my ex instead of just co-habitating. Obviously, in retrospect, it was the wrong choice.

Hey, I never claimed to be perfect. :lol:

~BB~

EvonRose

11-04-2011, 04:42 AM

I don't know about anybody else, but the tax break was a huge reason I got married to my ex instead of just co-habitating. Obviously, in retrospect, it was the wrong choice.

Hey, I never claimed to be perfect. :lol:

~BB~

I'm perfectly imperfect....

tsadriana

11-04-2011, 04:43 AM

I'm perfectly imperfect....
Im not perfec im mad:):):)

BellaBellucci

11-04-2011, 05:28 AM

I'm perfectly imperfect....

I'm predictably unpredictable. :)

~BB~

EvonRose

11-04-2011, 05:38 AM

I'm predictably unpredictable. :)

~BB~

Lol good one Bella!!!

Chaotic

11-04-2011, 05:47 PM

And I'm remarkably unremarkable :shrug

MdR Dave

11-04-2011, 05:59 PM

I'm pseudonymously Dave.

jessicamoore

11-04-2011, 09:56 PM

EvonRose

11-04-2011, 10:04 PM

some is true but there are verty fem looking boys that transition into girls and hardley need any hormone treatment "rare" but there are
i myself been on hormones since 1992 once i grew big breast and skin has become soft i ralrely take hormones only when needed dont wanna mess up my liver hormones are steriod and years of abuse may lead to danger of the organs

your right, i said it below just being one is a transsexual doesn't mean they are passable I know many ts that get srs and are not as passable as some transgender i know who keep their penis. I take hormones everyday until my srs that is why my srs is coming up soon before any damage is done to my organs because i have fully developed as a woman already no need for me to keep the extra thing down below. lol..

THIS IS ALL WOMAN!!

innocentbychoice

11-05-2011, 01:11 AM

innocentbychoice

11-05-2011, 01:29 AM

Well taken actions to change your secondary characteristics i would hope you have to prove your former maleness, or your not successful in your transitioning. Like I said your talking about a government id which allows you to be considered a woman, but your birth certificate, ss is still make with your legal male name. You cannot change this unless you have your srs. this still makes you male by sex but your female regardless...

you have a f on your medical documents but your medical documents still have your birth certificate in record they should know your actuall sex if they looked it up with you ss number. You need all this feminine care as do all women your not a man!!! your a woman and should need these cares because with hormones we have female complications such as breast cancer, blood clots, etc.. but guess what you still have your penis so you have male complications as well... prostate cancer, testicular, etc

Congratulations! but i doubt its your female status the courts probably knew you were a better fit parent..

I understand my transsexualism, that's why i have a problem ppl calling me a tg because i don't want to have a penis. and studied this years and years with my mom.

But the way I see it, and from what I've read "transgendered" is someone whose gender (brain) functions as the brain of the opposite sex, a transsexual is a transgendered person who did what they had to do to change their body to match their brain. That transsexual can either go all they way (have SRS and get the "Post-op transsexual" label) or keep their biological genitalia and get the "pre-op transsexual" label (if they plan on having SRS at some point) or "non-op transsexual" if they want to keep their biological genitalia.

I do get what you're trying to say but it's more confusing and doesn't feel entirely accurate to say a transgendered person who has changed their entire body but their genitals can't be called a transsexual.

rydermorrison

11-05-2011, 01:31 AM

EvonRose

11-05-2011, 01:56 AM

But the way I see it, and from what I've read "transgendered" is someone whose gender (brain) functions as the brain of the opposite sex, a transsexual is a transgendered person who did what they had to do to change their body to match their brain. That transsexual can either go all they way (have SRS and get the "Post-op transsexual" label) or keep their biological genitalia and get the "pre-op transsexual" label (if they plan on having SRS at some point) or "non-op transsexual" if they want to keep their biological genitalia.

I do get what you're trying to say but it's more confusing and doesn't feel entirely accurate to say a transgendered person who has changed their entire body but their genitals can't be called a transsexual.

yes that's right we all start out transgender because that's what the brain function is, but any transgender who gets srs is transsexual, not longer transgender because their brain matches the genitalia. I feel ppl try to over analyze it or don't want to accept the truth but this is scientifically what it is. a castrated trans is transex. sex affects the outer form, or genitalia while gender is like what you say brain function.

if you wanna get more complicated People consider srs transsexuals Purley WOMEN, once they get a vagina they no longer belong in these categories but lets save that for another story...

rydermorrison

11-05-2011, 03:22 AM

castratioon or srs? or either ? because the two arent the same... i dont agree with ne thing else ur saying but i am curious about that specific point of your argument..

EvonRose

11-05-2011, 03:33 AM

castratioon or srs? or either ? because the two arent the same... i dont agree with ne thing else ur saying but i am curious about that specific point of your argument..

Look any transsexuals who choose to get the srs will never accept to be put in the same category as the women who choose to keep their penis. This is where extremity will set in in terms of how intense the GID is. If a person who chooses to keep their penis wants to call themselves transsexuals which in modern days they are, I call my self WOMAN its no offense to you, but IMO to fully transcend one must have the srs, and if you don't have the srs I will never allow myself to be put in your category because my mentality is just way different to how I view my body. I cannot be put in the same category as a trans woman who has a penis and any science will tell you this is a fact.

The actual definition of a transgender is someone who does not have an srs, look it up. But now a days ppl dont consider that because many trans don't like to be put in that label so your now transsexual because you have taken hormones and gained female characters. And that would make me a woman for getting my srs.

EvonRose

11-05-2011, 03:35 AM

castratioon or srs? or either ? because the two arent the same... i dont agree with ne thing else ur saying but i am curious about that specific point of your argument..

SRS, but some do scientifically call that castration. In Europe, and Asia.

TRANSEXUAL TOP BELICE

11-05-2011, 04:04 AM

i am truly ts

innocentbychoice

11-05-2011, 03:21 PM

yes that's right we all start out transgender because that's what the brain function is, but any transgender who gets srs is transsexual, not longer transgender because their brain matches the genitalia.

I disagree. A transgendered person will always be transgendered, SRS or not, because the word "trans" refers to a transition not to your current state of mind. I mean, whether your genitalia matches your brain after surgery or not, your brain will always be transgendered because while you were supposed to think like this gender, you thought like the other and that's what made you change your body. Saying that a transgendered person who gets SRS is automatically removed from the "transgender" category would be like saying that transgenderism is merely an issue of what your genitals look like and we all know it is way deeper than that.

I do get that you're talking from a very technical point of view, but technical is not always practical.

EvonRose

11-05-2011, 05:22 PM

I disagree. A transgendered person will always be transgendered, SRS or not, because the word "trans" refers to a transition not to your current state of mind. I mean, whether your genitalia match your brain after surgery or not, your brain will always be transgendered because while you were supposed to think like this gender, you thought like the other and that's what made you change your body. Saying that a transgendered person who gets SRS is automatically removed from the "transgender" category would be like saying that transgenderism is merely an issue of what your genitals look like and we all know it is way deeper than that.

I do get that you're talking from a very technical point of view, but technical is not always practical.

No, we do all start out transgender we have a mismatch of our body and brain, that's is the definition of tg, we don't have any alterations with surgery or hormones when we started, but have an understanding we have a woman's brain and want to live in that role. Then once hormones and surgery take place they become transsexual that the proof of their actions taken on their body, A few get srs thus making them Woman, because each level has an extremity in GID and the actions need to take place before proceeding to the next.

I am a technical person because obviously people want to create their own labels outside of science making their own theory, this is what I go by and this is what I believe. Girls always get mad at me for telling them their label because they think im telling them they are not woman etc, pass ability has nothing to do with it it is the alteration of the body that changes your labels and that ALONE!!!!!!!

BellaBellucci

11-05-2011, 10:30 PM

doctor screw

11-05-2011, 10:32 PM

Trannys are just advanced drag queens, argument over

jokes..jokes..jokes

EvonRose

11-05-2011, 10:36 PM

The term that I've heard that best describes a post-op's status is 'female of transsexual experience.'

Are You Experienced?- The Jimi Hendrix Experience - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX0XVEmwlfs)

~BB~

Lol I might actually agree on you with that!!!

innocentbychoice

11-05-2011, 11:01 PM

No, we do all start out transgender we have a mismatch of our body and brain, that's is the definition of tg, we don't have any alterations with surgery or hormones when we started, but have an understanding we have a woman's brain and want to live in that role. Then once hormones and surgery take place they become transsexual that the proof of their actions taken on their body, A few get srs thus making them Woman, because each level has an extremity in GID and the actions need to take place before proceeding to the next.

I am a technical person because obviously people want to create their own labels outside of science making their own theory, this is what I go by and this is what I believe. Girls always get mad at me for telling them their label because they think im telling them they are not woman etc, pass ability has nothing to do with it it is the alteration of the body that changes your labels and that ALONE!!!!!!!

The thing is that everyone has so many different concepts of what transgender, transsexual, transvestite etc mean that it's difficult to get to an agreement. Heck in my country the word "travesti" (which means transvestite in English) is used to talk about transgendered people of all kinds (drag-queens, transsexuals, crossdressers, etc) even tgirls themselves do it; we have a very famous trans actress called Endry Cardeño who says she's a travesti, I think once she even said it takes a lot of balls to be homosexual (even though she's a heterosexual tgirl). And I'm sure she doesn't consider herself a man, it's just that the words are not very well defined and people don't have much knowledge about the T in the LBGT community specially in Latinamerica.