Passports - and a question to the girls

[Prospero]

The British government is now considering allowed transgendered people to register as neither male or female. (The Australians already stole a march on them!)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/19/home-office-gender-free-passports

I wondered if the girls here who travel widely internationally have any problems with passport control? Do you travel on male or female passport

[hunkystudcal]

Its about time the UK government got their act together, but I doubt it will become law.

[TsJizelle]

I have only ever traveled to the states and my passport still says male. In the province of Ontario you are required to have SRS in order to change your birth certificate's sex which your passport's gender marker is determined on, however you can change the gender marker on your driver's license accompanied with a doctor's note. Basically detailing "she's a girl, but she's got a dick. give her some peace at mind and help her out. that's what Canadians do for the rest of the world right??"

Anytime I go to the states I get pulled aside and questioned, bag torn apart, the whole night yards. One guy said "you know that your passport says you're a guy right?" but....you look like a chick"... wow...I applaud your attentiveness Mr. Customs..good looking out for the criminal in the line!

I always get through ...eventually. They see I'm a nice girl with no criminal record, I tend to just bat my big eyes at them and all is ok, just why the hassle guys really? All I want to do is come spend my hard earned Canadian dollars in your country!!!

[Silcc69]

I have only ever traveled to the states and my passport still says male. In the province of Ontario you are required to have SRS in order to change your birth certificate's sex which your passport's gender marker is determined on, however you can change the gender marker on your driver's license accompanied with a doctor's note. Basically detailing "she's a girl, but she's got a dick. give her some peace at mind and help her out. that's what Canadians do for the rest of the world right??"

Anytime I go to the states I get pulled aside and questioned, bag torn apart, the whole night yards. One guy said "you know that your passport says you're a guy right?" but....you look like a chick"... wow...I applaud your attentiveness Mr. Customs..good looking out for the criminal in the line!

I always get through ...eventually. They see I'm a nice girl with no criminal record, I tend to just bat my big eyes at them and all is ok, just why the hassle guys really? All I want to do is come spend my hard earned Canadian dollars in your country!!!

Because they enjoy being dicks.

[Jericho]

Its about time the UK government got their act together, but I doubt it will become law.

Damn, that's some funny shit right here! :roll:

[SammiValentine]

ummm we can get "female" passports anyway in UK (even pre-op) as long as you tick the boxes (e.g 2 or 3 years fulltime, and your GP/doctor/or psychologist providing a letter stating you are full time and that in their professional opinion that one will not revert to living as a fella). so to sum it up- fuck off cameron / clegg and do something useful. thanks xx id much rather a female passport than a "Look at me am fucking different hohoho passport"

Gets more complicated with changing birth certificates or a GRC but who gives a toss as long as my passport and drivers have an F on them I am happy.

[RainMan]

I have only ever traveled to the states and my passport still says male. In the province of Ontario you are required to have SRS in order to change your birth certificate's sex which your passport's gender marker is determined on, however you can change the gender marker on your driver's license accompanied with a doctor's note. Basically detailing "she's a girl, but she's got a dick. give her some peace at mind and help her out. that's what Canadians do for the rest of the world right??"

Anytime I go to the states I get pulled aside and questioned, bag torn apart, the whole night yards. One guy said "you know that your passport says you're a guy right?" but....you look like a chick"... wow...I applaud your attentiveness Mr. Customs..good looking out for the criminal in the line!

I always get through ...eventually. They see I'm a nice girl with no criminal record, I tend to just bat my big eyes at them and all is ok, just why the hassle guys really? All I want to do is come spend my hard earned Canadian dollars in your country!!!

Canadiens have to go through customs? I didn't even know people watched the north border like that lmao

[TsJizelle]

Canadiens have to go through customs? I didn't even know people watched the north border like that lmao

supposedly after 9/11 there was speculation that they came through Canada...I've seen people be denied entry to the States from Canada.

[RainMan]

supposedly after 9/11 there was speculation that they came through Canada...I've seen people be denied entry to the States from Canada.

I saw a border check point on tv once somewhere up north it was just a little shack with a 3 foot fence, never been to canada but all ways thought Canada was a more relaxed america, guess you canadiens are a dangerous bunch lol jk

[Stavros]

I think Sammi's point is the key one: what is it that the girls themselves want? And as she says, its F in the passport; rather than the creation of a 'special' category. In addition, this would make it easier for some states to refuse entry, as they could issue guidelines saying 'We only allow entry to Male and Female Passport holders' -whereas now I guess they have to look at the person when they arrive at immigration and make an on the spot decision. Creating a TG passport seems to me to have more serious and negative consequences than it does at the moment.

[onmyknees]

supposedly after 9/11 there was speculation that they came through Canada...I've seen people be denied entry to the States from Canada.

That's entirely true. I used to cross at Plattsburgh several times a year and it was like going from NY to New Jersey....that was pre 911. Man did that shit change. I brought back a girl from Montreal who's visa was under review in the system to be renewed. They immediately red flagged her even though she had been crossing without incident for years. It was 20 hours of anguish these fuckers put us through....that was on the US side ! Kinda ironic when you look at the southern border ! lmao

[iagodelgado]

I have only ever traveled to the states and my passport still says male. In the province of Ontario you are required to have SRS in order to change your birth certificate's sex which your passport's gender marker is determined on, however you can change the gender marker on your driver's license accompanied with a doctor's note. Basically detailing "she's a girl, but she's got a dick. give her some peace at mind and help her out. that's what Canadians do for the rest of the world right??"

Anytime I go to the states I get pulled aside and questioned, bag torn apart, the whole night yards. One guy said "you know that your passport says you're a guy right?" but....you look like a chick"... wow...I applaud your attentiveness Mr. Customs..good looking out for the criminal in the line!

I always get through ...eventually. They see I'm a nice girl with no criminal record, I tend to just bat my big eyes at them and all is ok, just why the hassle guys really? All I want to do is come spend my hard earned Canadian dollars in your country!!!

I have entered the US on 5 times. I am M. My passport says M. I look like M. I have NO criminal record. And on each time I have been treated like cattle being herded to slaughter. Welcome to the US. PS The fact that I have just watched the 1930's plan by the US to bring down the UK by invading Canada is not relevant. (Very interesting though - Operation Red Flag). :)

[ValerieNelson]

Just got my new passport in yesterday. It took jumping through some hoops, but it has "F," on it. Looking forward to traveling out of the US.

[BrendaQG]

Congratulations.

I have also been jumping through the hoops on that. The sticking point is the Dr.s letter. I applied at the post office. The passport agent saw no problems with my papers and sent in all the required info including a letter from my dr (at a local health center where I am on an advisory committee) off.

First it wasn't on formal enough letter head and did not have their license number. My mistake. Then I got a letter with their license number and all that spelled out in bold letters. I still got a letter from the state dept asking for yet another letter.

Then I wrote sen. Dick Durbin (D, IL), sen. Mark Kirk (R, IL) and rep Danny Davis (D, IL) and the NCTE. Senator Kirk's office is looking into it, plus I have a really formal letter from my doctor, and her supervisor on ultra fancy letter head. They have no real excuse this time.

The moral of the story. It can depend on which bureaucrat gets your papers. If they just don't want to do it then any trifling pretext will be used to deny you.

___________

As for registering as neither male nor female. In a more understanding world that would be a real option. In the real world, even in overall enlightened countries, ignorant border guards could be a real problem.

[TsJizelle]

That's entirely true. I used to cross at Plattsburgh several times a year and it was like going from NY to New Jersey....that was pre 911. Man did that shit change. I brought back a girl from Montreal who's visa was under review in the system to be renewed. They immediately red flagged her even though she had been crossing without incident for years. It was 20 hours of anguish these fuckers put us through....that was on the US side ! Kinda ironic when you look at the southern border ! lmao

oh it was all over the news here!!!!! It got bad because the media did influence a strong opinion of the States with this suspicion but a decade later and it's not something I ever heard of on the news again.

I'm sure areas of the country like southern Ontario, and BC have much more strict border patrolling because of the dense population, high tourism activity and are generally largely immigrated areas. Of course, coming back into Canada you get a big hug, a kiss on the cheek and a "welcome home eh" followed by a slap on the ass, cuz we're queer like that. But going into the States will always be a headache from now on. At least you can use the new high-tech driver's license to cross now rather than a passport, a birth certificate, retinal scan and blood sample like it was before!! haha

[ashleyfoxx]

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[robertlouis]

I think Sammi's point is the key one: what is it that the girls themselves want? And as she says, its F in the passport; rather than the creation of a 'special' category. In addition, this would make it easier for some states to refuse entry, as they could issue guidelines saying 'We only allow entry to Male and Female Passport holders' -whereas now I guess they have to look at the person when they arrive at immigration and make an on the spot decision. Creating a TG passport seems to me to have more serious and negative consequences than it does at the moment.

:Bowdown: Excellent point, Stavros. It would ease things a lot universally if girls could call themselves female on the passport, and also make it much more difficult for backward states to refuse entry. After all, how ludicrous is it that the decision should be down to an immigration official? The girl knows who and what she is. As always, the divine Ms Valentine speaks sense.

Truly, it isn't governments who rule our lives, it's petty officialdom at a local level.

[robertlouis]

I have entered the US on 5 times. I am M. My passport says M. I look like M. I have NO criminal record. And on each time I have been treated like cattle being herded to slaughter. Welcome to the US. PS The fact that I have just watched the 1930's plan by the US to bring down the UK by invading Canada is not relevant. (Very interesting though - Operation Red Flag). :)

That film was on UK television last night. More than merely interesting too....

I'm a pro musician and quite a lot of my friends and colleagues from the UK used to start pan-American tours in Canada and then cross into the US before heading for home. I'm not talking about major headline rock acts, but solo singer-songwriters like me, usually travelling on their own or at most with their partner.

Post-9/11 crossing into the US has become a nightmare for them. Possession of a couple of acoustic guitars clearly marks you down as a terrorist.

One was held for 16 hours and then asked by some asshole to play the star-spangled fucking banner before they'd consider letting him in. Oh, and these are in the main guys in their 30s and 40s with shortish haircuts and good manners.

So several of them now tour Canada only and simply don't bother with the states. I'm not suggesting that this represents any major cultural loss to your country, but merely illustrating just how your petty officials (and where do you consistently manage to recruit from such a thin pool of racist right-wing assholes?) erode all the sympathy and respect for the US amongst other nationalities.

Immigration to the US was always a pain, now it's an endurance test.

[Prospero]

Careful Bob... remarks like "to play the star-spangled fucking banner" is going to draw a lot of the haters down on your head.

It's an endurance test wherever you enter the US. Imagine what its like coming in from Mexico!!!

And even nice middle class white british folk flying into Washington run into these bureaucrats. Couple of years back my flight into Washington was late and i had to make a connecting flight. Couple ahead of me had an even tighter connection. They asked one of these nice immigration folk if they could go to the head of the line so they'd make their flight (Travel into and then across the US involves clearing customs when you first land and then re-checking your luggage so its a time consuming drag). The officials resoonse: " No. Get back in line. You miss your flight.' No apologies. No humanity. No sympathy whatsoever. Assholes.

[Angeles Cid]

My Argentinian passport does not specify my gender, so obviously I travel as a female, although my concealed cock almost gave a heart attack to the lady to padded me in the Toronto Airport last month

[robertlouis]

Careful Bob... remarks like "to play the star-spangled fucking banner" is going to draw a lot of the haters down on your head.

It's an endurance test wherever you enter the US. Imagine what its like coming in from Mexico!!!

And even nice middle class white british folk flying into Washington run into these bureaucrats. Couple of years back my flight into Washington was late and i had to make a connecting flight. Couple ahead of me had an even tighter connection. They asked one of these nice immigration folk if they could go to the head of the line so they'd make their flight (Travel into and then across the US involves clearing customs when you first land and then re-checking your luggage so its a time consuming drag). The officials resoonse: " No. Get back in line. You miss your flight.' No apologies. No humanity. No sympathy whatsoever. Assholes.

I flew into Dallas a few years ago and was asked to go through the fingerprint checker. Now, as a pro guitarist, my left hand occasionally doesn't show any prints (if you don't get callouses on your fingertips you're not a serious player), although the right one clearly does, and did on this occasion. So my right hand identified exactly who I was.

But two goons dragged me away to the cooler two levels down. It was chokingly hot, there was no water and I quickly realised that I was the only one in there who had no connections to the drug trade. In the nine hours that they held me there were three fights, all of which threatened to escalate, and all of which wre studiously ignored by the guards behind the glass.

Add in the fact that I was different to everyone else which in itself created a lot of malicious curiosity, and suffice to say that I have joined a worldwide legion of haters of the US immigration service. Oh, and at the end, they took me back upstairs and made me join the line all over again. Cunts.

Humiliation of people coming to spend time and dollars in your country is a bad policy. Deal with it.

[Prospero]

Whoa - not MY country! They're not immigration anymore are they. Homeland Security these days, surely. Nine hours in an airport is fucking horrible.

[robertlouis]

Whoa - not MY country! They're not immigration anymore are they. Homeland Security these days, surely. Nine hours in an airport is fucking horrible.

I know they're not yours, Prospero. Mind you, I'm pretty sure there are more than just a few racist jobsworths working for UK Border Control too.

And bear in mind that those nine hours were in a dungeon with a mix of drug dealers, criminals and illegals. The friends I was staying with, who've since had the sense to move to the UK and now live near me in Cambridge, were incensed and wrote to their congressman on my behalf, but got an anodyne no apology reply. Oh well, what can you expect from a Repubtard in Tejas?

And my sincere apologies for hijacking this thread. Hope it can get back on track.

[Prospero]

Well it all relates.

I have often wondered how the jet-setting escorts girls - people like Tia Phoenix for instance - flit from country to country. I think Tia has an Indonesian passport and presumably travels on a female passport. But girls who go to places like Dubai must surely HAVE to cary female passport otherwise they'd end up in prison.

[Stavros]

But girls who go to places like Dubai must surely HAVE to cary female passport otherwise they'd end up in prison.

And surely, if they turned up with a TG passport it would be easier to refuse them entry?
I am dismayed at the dreadful experiences RobertLouis and others have had but I have never had a problem at all either entering the US or moving through it -New York, LA, San Francisco and most recently Las Vegas via Minneapolis -no problem at all. Maybe I was just lucky, maybe I am luckier still that I don't carry a guitar around and have dodgy fingers.

No gender category in Argentine passports? Interesting way to do it.

[BrendaQG]

Not neccessarily. The arrest I hear of in Dubai and other Islamic countries stem from girls who go there and then don't dress like the women do there. Walking about uncovered would get a GG a stern looking at.

My own passport finally came through. It was sent to by priority mail and got here in under a day.

[robertlouis]

Not neccessarily. The arrest I hear of in Dubai and other Islamic countries stem from girls who go there and then don't dress like the women do there. Walking about uncovered would get a GG a stern looking at.

My own passport finally came through. It was sent to by priority mail and got here in under a day.

Good news about your passport, Brenda.

However, you're not right about Dubai. If what you say was true, the jails would be heaving with every female western tourist who goes there. They wouldn't dream of destroying their tourist industry, which is all about having a fallback for when their limited stocks of oil dry up.

No, it's all to do with the muslim view of homosexuality, and they see tgirls and crossdressers etc as much the same thing.

[Prospero]

You can read all about Tia Phoenix's grim experiences in Dubai on her blog. She was arrested, out into a male prison and raped. So whenever an escort says she is about to go visit these countries I warn them to be very, very careful. The girls who do go there never advertise their presence on local websites. They tend to advertise externally - and people use those sites to contact them. There is one Russian TS girl who e-mails me often - ever since I met her in Oman - to say she is going to be in this or that Middle eastern country. If they make the mistake of advertising locally the police set traps. And as Robertlouis says it really isn't about dressing the wrong way. I've been to most of these nations and Saudi Arabia is the only place where western women get hassled by the authorities if they don't cover up. In Dubai you will get arrested for "bad behaviour" in public - ie making out on the beach - but not for wearing western clothes The place is full of fashionably dressed young women.

[BrendaQG]

[QUOTE=Prospero;1009303]You can read all about Tia Phoenix's grim experiences in Dubai on her blog. She was arrested, out into a male prison and raped.

Sadly, that happens right here in the good ol USA every day. If you get arrested, and your not post op, as a world wide rule your going into male jail.

Advertising escort services. That too gets one arrested here in the Good ol USA.

All I'm gonna say about that issue is this, the Islamic world is no more or less accepting of transgender people than the western world. Which says more about how crappy this life can be, at times, all over the world than anything good about muslims.

[Prospero]

Brenda - I was, in no way dissing Muslims. I love that part of the world, Arab and islamic culture etc etc.... but I DO know that TS girls and gay men get a terrible deal in certain Muslim countries. Iran,(not Arabs) peculiarly, is very tolerant of the transgendered, but hangs gay men.

[LibertyHarkness]

i cant wait to change my passport next month :) i went to dubai enroute to thailand ... had some problems but luckily as i was only transfer flight 2hours in airport they was ok with it ...

but yes in dubai its illegal for a male to present as a female ..must be risky business for escorts perhaps out there .

[Prospero]

It surely is Liberty. My friend Najwa used to get away with it, but she is part Saudi and looks exactly like an Arab woman. But I don't think she was ever in Saudi since she began to transition.

[jcsmith70]

My Argentinian passport does not specify my gender, so obviously I travel as a female, although my concealed cock almost gave a heart attack to the lady to padded me in the Toronto Airport last month

Concealed weapon of ass destruction?. lol.. Not making light of the hassle. I was just imaging the lady's reaction to her find.

[Prospero]

Angeles CID - That is pretty intimate padding by the immigration lady. Either that or your concelaed cock was so large it was not really concealable.