It's now legal for transgender women to join the NCAA

[MrsKellyPierce]

Do you think this is fair??

[AmyDaly]

In before a bunch of uninformed people cry its not fair.

[Silcc69]

That makes me think this

Juwanna Man Trailer - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfGnspMWpUY)

[BellaBellucci]

In before a bunch of uninformed people cry its not fair.

Nice. :lol:

Umm, in before wig on your football?! :dancing:

~BB~

[TSPornFan]

Why not have a league for both everyone. It would be interesting to watch!

[dgs925]

In before a bunch of uninformed people cry its not fair.

So give us your reasoning as to why it is fair, oh informed one. Why even have different leagues for different genders?

[Thewickerman]

Yes its fair and about time. I think its going to open some doors, not just in sports like basketball, but the big one football! I have always supported women who want to play in a mans leauge wither or not its a GG or a trans girl.
Just keep it fair and reasonable

[AmyDaly]

So give us your reasoning as to why it is fair, oh informed one. Why even have different leagues for different genders?

This topic comes up all the time. Do your own research on the effects of the medication that we take.

[GentsPreferTS]

Doh... took me 30 seconds to figure out we were not talking about the NAACP.

[Quiet Reflections]

Fair? whos to say. About time? sure whatever. As long as people realize that they separated men and women for a good reason. A female place kicker is one thing but ladies don't play other positions at high competitive levels because they simply aren't strong enough. I would love nothing more than to see a woman check Ovechkin but we(and they) know that's just never going to happen. Definitely never in the pros and nothing more than a symbolic spot on a college or minor league team. And if you think girls have it rough just wait till a known TS walks into a lockeroom let alone steps on a court,field,pitch,etc, were talking bounties and illegal hits galore. Its not right but its the truth.

[onmyknees]

In before a bunch of uninformed people cry its not fair.



LMAO...Uninformed...or just of a different opinion..? It's Amy's way...or hit the fucking highway.....no discussion needed or allowed.

[AmyDaly]

LMAO...Uninformed...or just of a different opinion..? It's Amy's way...or hit the fucking highway.....no discussion needed or allowed.
There are actual medical facts on what happens to our bodies after extensive hormone therapies. The fact that people don't know this and want to give their opinion on the subject means they are uninformed, does it not?

[dgs925]

Amy, just answer my question. Why have separate leagues for men and women? Most people would say it's because of the size difference between men and women.

I guess what you are hinting at is that transwomen lose muscle mass when taking hormones. (by the way what kind of argument style is that? you hint that you have knowledge that makes the answer to the question obvious, then ridicule others for not having the same knowledge, while not enlightening everyone else)

The real answer is that more research is needed, I'm sure, comparing the average abilities of male, female, and transgendered athletes to see whether the trans norm is more in line with their sex or with their gender.

Personally I can't stand professional sports. If you want to play sports that's just fine, but I don't see why it should be a job.

[MrsKellyPierce]

Amy what about the transgender man on the female team?

Is that unfair in your opinion?

I mean Buck is bigger and stronger than a lot of men

Cause he is a man in my opinion - love Buck - but would you put him
On the womens team or the mans team? I would put him on the males team. Since he is a male.

[MrsKellyPierce]

And DGS I'm 5'4 and a 110 lbs would you put me on the women's team or male team?

I think some of the women would be stronger and bigger than me lol

[dgs925]

And DGS I'm 5'4 and a 110 lbs would you put me on the women's team or male team?

I think some of the women would be stronger and bigger than me lol


Did you read my post Kelly? Seriously, did you read it?

What I said is that more science would need to be done to determine whether it's fair or not. Your examples are anecdotal and don't mean a thing. One could easily find plenty of men who are 5'4 and weigh 110 lbs, is it your opinion that those men should play on women's teams? One could easily find cis-gendered women with more muscle mass than Buck Angel. Is it your opinion that those women should play on the men's team?

One would need to examine the very basis of segregating sports based on gender. What are the reasons? Once those reasons are agreed upon, one would need to determine whether the average transgendered person fits more in line with their birth sex or with their gender.

Then there are questions of how long has the transgendered person been on hormones, what changes it's had on their bodies, and what not. It's obviously a complicated question, one not to be answered with the knee-jerk reaction "We're women, dammit, and we deserve every right afforded other women!"

[MrsKellyPierce]

Did you read my post Kelly? Seriously, did you read it?

What I said is that more science would need to be done to determine whether it's fair or not. Your examples are anecdotal and don't mean a thing. One could easily find plenty of men who are 5'4 and weigh 110 lbs, is it your opinion that those men should play on women's teams? One could easily find cis-gendered women with more muscle mass than Buck Angel. Is it your opinion that those women should play on the men's team?

One would need to examine the very basis of segregating sports based on gender. What are the reasons? Once those reasons are agreed upon, one would need to determine whether the average transgendered person fits more in line with their birth sex or with their gender.

Then there are questions of how long has the transgendered person been on hormones, what changes it's had on their bodies, and what not. It's obviously a complicated question, one not to be answered with the knee-jerk reaction "We're women, dammit, and we deserve every right afforded other women!"
I did read it, but I think it should be based on case by case...

Instead of study :)

[AmyDaly]

Lol you guys really think men and women are equal in athletic ability?

[dgs925]

Who said that Amy? I'm saying it's a complicated issue, one that has no easy answer. You have yet to say what you think about the matter though.

[AmyDaly]

I don't think its that complicated. You think its Ok to let men play against women in basketball or football? I think if a female wants to be on a mens team, then fine let her. But she is at great disadvantage to the men in most cases in size, speed, strength. Women are just not built the same way as men are and a lot of it comes from muscle mass and bone mass. Testosterone plays a big deal too. I don't feel like I need to type all this shit out because its something that you should already know.

[dgs925]

I don't feel like I need to type all this shit out because its something that you should already know.

No, you don't feel like spelling out your argument because either you're feeling lazy this morning or it isn't all that well thought out, Amy.


You think its Ok to let men play against women in basketball or football?

Like I said before, I think "professional" athletes should have to get real jobs like the rest of us and stop playing games all day. But I'm aware that a lot of other people feel differently about this.



I think if a female wants to be on a mens team, then fine let her.

Fuck that double standard, what's good for the goose is good for the gander so if women can play on men's teams then fuck it, make them all co-ed.


There are lots of transsexual women I've seen on this site who have just as much muscle and bone mass as the average man. Do you think they should play on the women's or men's teams?



But she is at great disadvantage to the men in most cases in size, speed, strength. Women are just not built the same way as men are and a lot of it comes from muscle mass and bone mass. Testosterone plays a big deal too.

There are genetic women out there with more muscle mass and testosterone than the average man. Should they be disqualified from competing against "normal" dainty women? Should only the Tgirls who "pass" get to play on girls' teams?

What about intersex people who present visually as female but have the testosterone of men? It could be argued they have a distinct advantage, should they be given testosterone blockers before competing? Or should the other women be given testosterone to boost them up?

[AmyDaly]

No, you don't feel like spelling out your argument because either you're feeling lazy this morning or it isn't all that well thought out, Amy.

There are lots of transsexual women I've seen on this site who have just as much muscle and bone mass as the average man. Do you think they should play on the women's or men's teams?

There are genetic women out there with more muscle mass and testosterone than the average man. Should they be disqualified from competing against "normal" dainty women? What about intersex people who present visually as female but have the testosterone of men?
Just the fact that you can come up with all these questions shows that there shouldn't be just one league and throw all the men and women together. I think its pretty clear that there needs to be separation with exceptions. The topic of this thread however, is what? "It's now legal for transgender women to join the NCAA". So all that shit you said is pretty offtopic considering the thread is specifically about transwomen in the NCAA, where previously we weren't allowed to play at all. NCAA is a college sport, so the vast majority of the players coming in to play are going to be young transwomen. Most of the young transwomen today who are looking to play sports most likely have been on hormones for some time and have muscle mass compared to that of a female. Sure, it needs to be regulated like making sure testosterone levels are low and that she is not going off hormones to get any advantage.

[BellaBellucci]

Just the fact that you can come up with all these questions shows that there shouldn't be just one league and throw all the men and women together. I think its pretty clear that there needs to be separation with exceptions. The topic of this thread however, is what? "It's now legal for transgender women to join the NCAA". So all that shit you said is pretty offtopic considering the thread is specifically about transwomen in the NCAA, where previously we weren't allowed to play at all. NCAA is a college sport, so the vast majority of the players coming in to play are going to be young transwomen. Most of the young transwomen today who are looking to play sports most likely have been on hormones for some time and have muscle mass compared to that of a female. Sure, it needs to be regulated like making sure testosterone levels are low and that she is not going off hormones to get any advantage.

:iagree: Nail. Head.

~BB~

[AmyDaly]

No, you don't feel like spelling out your argument because either you're feeling lazy this morning or it isn't all that well thought out, Amy.



Like I said before, I think "professional" athletes should have to get real jobs like the rest of us and stop playing games all day. But I'm aware that a lot of other people feel differently about this.




Fuck that double standard, what's good for the goose is good for the gander so if women can play on men's teams then fuck it, make them all co-ed.


There are lots of transsexual women I've seen on this site who have just as much muscle and bone mass as the average man. Do you think they should play on the women's or men's teams?




There are genetic women out there with more muscle mass and testosterone than the average man. Should they be disqualified from competing against "normal" dainty women? Should only the Tgirls who "pass" get to play on girls' teams?

What about intersex people who present visually as female but have the testosterone of men? It could be argued they have a distinct advantage, should they be given testosterone blockers before competing? Or should the other women be given testosterone to boost them up?

Here we go with the back tracking and editing your post and shit. This is why I don't want to waste my time arguing here. Pros should have to get real jobs like the rest of us? Oh boo hoo. Welcome to life, some people get lucky. Double standard? LOL. Yea lets let men go play on a team with a bunch of women who can't dunk the ball or sprint as fast or hit a ball as hard. Sure sounds fair. Have some common sense lol. Say what ever else you want, but I am not going to go back and forward with a guy who can't acknowledge that men are psychically superior to women in size and strength. You can just just see my point by opening your eyes up and visually comparing men and women. Are you playing devils advocate or are you seriously not able to tell the difference between boys and girls.

[dgs925]

Just the fact that you can come up with all these questions shows that there shouldn't be just one league and throw all the men and women together. I think its pretty clear that there needs to be separation with exceptions. The topic of this thread however, is what? "It's now legal for transgender women to join the NCAA". So all that shit you said is pretty offtopic considering the thread is specifically about transwomen in the NCAA, where previously we weren't allowed to play at all. NCAA is a college sport, so the vast majority of the players coming in to play are going to be young transwomen. Most of the young transwomen today who are looking to play sports most likely have been on hormones for some time and have muscle mass compared to that of a female. Sure, it needs to be regulated like making sure testosterone levels are low and that she is not going off hormones to get any advantage.

Was that so hard to spell out your argument?

[AmyDaly]

Was that so hard to spell out your argument?
No, but it was a waste of my time arguing with you. Like I already said before. This thread has come up multiple times and its always the same shit that gets said.

[needsum]

Doh... took me 30 seconds to figure out we were not talking about the NAACP.


hahahaha same here! I read smething about a wig and a football and said "huh?" then it struck me... lmao

[dgs925]

Here we go with the back tracking and editing your post and shit. This is why I don't want to waste my time arguing here. Pros should have to get real jobs like the rest of us? Oh boo hoo. Welcome to life, some people get lucky. Double standard? LOL. Yea lets let men go play on a team with a bunch of women who can't dunk the ball or sprint as fast or hit a ball as hard. Sure sounds fair. Have some common sense lol. Say what ever else you want, but I am not going to go back and forward with a guy who can't acknowledge that men are psychically superior to women in size and strength. You can just just see my point by opening your eyes up and visually comparing men and women. Are you playing devils advocate or are you seriously not able to tell the difference between boys and girls.

Since you don't like it when I edit my posts, I'll just put a new one up. I never said there weren't physical differences between men and women, I was just saying it was more complicated than you were making it out to be. And here you seem to have agreed with me that it is more complicated. Thank you.

Obviously men and women have, on average, very different bodies. And my point about the double standard is valid. If you let butch women play on men's teams then you have to let the dainty, 110 lb men play on the women's team.

I believe I said that more research needs to be done, because doing it on a case by case basis is just asking for discrimination. If it was left to the discretion of the coaches, then only the passable tgirls would get to play. There needs to be objective guidelines that don't depend on coach or NCAA discretion.

Also, if you are going to disqualify Tgirls with testosterone levels that are too high, what about cis-gendered females with high testosterone? The ones that fall on the trailing edge of the bell curve?

[dgs925]

No, but it was a waste of my time arguing with you. Like I already said before. This thread has come up multiple times and its always the same shit that gets said.

Bullshit, you were lazy.

[AmyDaly]

Also, if you are going to disqualify Tgirls with testosterone levels that are too high, what about cis-gendered females with high testosterone? The ones that fall on the trailing edge of the bell curve?

The difference with that is that the cis-gendered women with high testosterone are still women and they were born that way and can't control the change of levels in their hormones. Where as if I wanted to raise my testosterone levels, I could just stop taking my hormones and blockers and would have an easy advantage.

[dgs925]

The difference with that is that the cis-gendered women with high testosterone are still women

Wait, so transgendered women who have higher testosterone aren't women anymore?


I may be playing devil's advocate, but how else are we to have a discussion unless all valid points are raised?

[Erika1487]

Honestly I think it would be ok for a MTF to play on a mens team such as football, it has to do with skill, not size. Take me for example I am fomer Fullback/Nose tackle all confrerence at Nose one year. If I wasn't 32 I might be able to pull off playing on a team. It is about comfort level, I have grown up in football and know how the system works. If you got talent tits or not you could make a team and be accepted.

[AmyDaly]

Wait, so transgendered women who have higher testosterone aren't women anymore?


I may be playing devil's advocate, but how else are we to have a discussion unless all valid points are raised?
I never said that, now you are just twisting my words. By saying they are still women, it had nothing to do with a reference to transwomen. I am just stating the fact. Transwomen who have higher testosterone levels just aren't taking enough hormones because it is very easy to be brought down or below the testosterone level of a genetic female. Its also easy to not take your pills and go much higher, which is why I said they should be tested regularly, just like they get drug tested or even more frequently.

[Quiet Reflections]

Honestly I think it would be ok for a MTF to play on a mens team such as football, it has to do with skill, not size. Take me for example I am fomer Fullback/Nose tackle all confrerence at Nose one year. If I wasn't 32 I might be able to pull off playing on a team. It is about comfort level, I have grown up in football and know how the system works. If you got talent tits or not you could make a team and be accepted.
There is being in shape and being in football shape and I suspect you are in neither. Knowing football doesn't make you a player, let alone a good player. Your right that size isn't everything but I would still pick Wes Welker over Iron goddess any day

[BellaBellucci]

There is being in shape and being in football shape and I suspect you are in neither. Knowing football doesn't make you a player, let alone a good player. Your right that size isn't everything but I would still pick Wes Welker over Iron goddess any day

Wes Welker Runs 99 Yards For Touchdown New England Patriots Vs Miami Dolphins - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOqUIxUY9pA)

Awwwwww yeeeeeeeeah!

~BB~

[Jackal]

if Sapp wasn't a pussy he does not get away. You want a great WR, check out Andre Johnson. Anyway, why can't transwomen compete? Wasn't that tennis player allowed to do so decades ago?

[Quiet Reflections]

if Sapp wasn't a pussy he does not get away. You want a great WR, check out Andre Johnson. Anyway, why can't transwomen compete? Wasn't that tennis player allowed to do so decades ago?
In tennis it would be pretty even but football,hockey,rugby,soccer,basketball,baseball, its just not realistic. They wouldn't make the team and if they did it would be purely symbolic.