Jackie O Calls MLK A Phony

[Dino Velvet]

Never heard of either person so I know nothing. You guys fight it out.

[hippifried]

I call it a "dead" issue.

[Stavros]

You never heard of 'Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis'? Never heard of Martin Luther King? The only question is, are the late Ms Onassis's views important? Should we know what Mamie Eisenhower thought of General de Gaulle? What Pat Nixon thought about Queen Elizabeth? From what little I have read, for example, the less we know about Nancy Reagan's views the better for her, given that she is still alive. Didn't she once say to a public gathering in Washington DC what a pleasure it was to walk into a room and not see a black face?

[runningdownthatdream]

You never heard of 'Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis'? Never heard of Martin Luther King? The only question is, are the late Ms Onassis's views important? Should we know what Mamie Eisenhower thought of General de Gaulle? What Pat Nixon thought about Queen Elizabeth? From what little I have read, for example, the less we know about Nancy Reagan's views the better for her, given that she is still alive. Didn't she once say to a public gathering in Washington DC what a pleasure it was to walk into a room and not see a black face?

You guys on the other side of the world pay far too much attention to what goes on in the US..............on a micro scale you may be considered stalkers. The funny part is that you take what you read so seriously!

[robertlouis]

You never heard of 'Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis'? Never heard of Martin Luther King? The only question is, are the late Ms Onassis's views important? Should we know what Mamie Eisenhower thought of General de Gaulle? What Pat Nixon thought about Queen Elizabeth? From what little I have read, for example, the less we know about Nancy Reagan's views the better for her, given that she is still alive. Didn't she once say to a public gathering in Washington DC what a pleasure it was to walk into a room and not see a black face?

Stavros, Stavros. The OP is Dino. You need to be able to spot a windup, old friend.

And as for the late Mrs Kennedy/Onassis, I always felt that Gore Vidal, waspish as ever, came up with the best summary of her impact and achievements.

[Stavros]

Except that maybe Dino really never has heard of either JackiO or MLK, since they don't figure in the heavy metal/death metal/thrash metal charts...and what was it that Ms Vidal had to say about La Bouvier?

runningdownthatdream: we live in a global village, most of us in the UK have opinions about the US and are interested; maybe the question you should ask is why do so many Americans have so little interest in 'us' in 'Old Europe'? A few American BMs excepted of course.

[Dino Velvet]

Stavros, Stavros. The OP is Dino. You need to be able to spot a windup, old friend.

I've always thought you were smart. You know to consider the source.

Stavros is a great guy. I like him. Stavros, I might be crazy but I'm not stupid. I lied when I said I've never heard of Jackie O or MLK. Who are these Kennedy characters though? Have a great day.:cheers:

Rollins Band - Liar - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaysTVcounI)

[Prospero]

Dino... good old dino. Apart from his taste in music, i think he is a champ.

[Dino Velvet]

Dino... good old dino. Apart from his taste in music, i think he is a champ.

Half of the music I like was started in your great country. Not a fan of Sabbath or the NWOBHM(New Wave Of British Heavy Metal)?

[Prospero]

See my remark on the "What are you listening to now" strand for your answer, Dino

[Dino Velvet]

See my remark on the "What are you listening to now" strand for your answer, Dino

You, at least, like Clapton, don't 'ya? Not Metal but maybe something we can agree on.:cheers:

Both live versions are good.

Blind Faith - In The Presence of The Lord - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbRgSlIrJQ0)

Presence Of The Lord - Eric Clapton & Steve Winwood - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFlgDeA6Wog)

[Yvonne183]

Half of the music I like was started in your great country. Not a fan of Sabbath or the NWOBHM(New Wave Of British Heavy Metal)?

There's something wrong with your list, I don't see ABBA's name on your list.

PS- Also, why is there no Japanese bands on the list? Are there no metal Japanese bands?

[robertlouis]

Half of the music I like was started in your great country. Not a fan of Sabbath or the NWOBHM(New Wave Of British Heavy Metal)?

That's a great and very informative chart, Dino. Thanks. I have a lot of Hendrix and Clapton, admiration for them both as guitarists, I guess. Also some 70s and early 80s punk.

But my instinct has always been for the bones of a song, the lyrics and the writer's intent, not the wrapping up in sound, so from the early 80s it's always been about singer-songwriters. Forgive me, but in metal, the lyrics are usually indecipherable to the untrained ear, so I very rarely listen to it.

[Dino Velvet]

There's something wrong with your list, I don't see ABBA's name on your list.

PS- Also, why is there no Japanese bands on the list? Are there no metal Japanese bands?

Put some Japanese Metal Videos up and I'll watch. There are a few Grindcore/Death/Black Metal bands over there, I think. The closest thing I listen to that is a Grindcore Band from Singapore named Wormrot.

WORMROT - BORN STUPID (A LITTLE MORE COMPETITION) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKb18QCYnnU)

Wormrot "Spot A Pathetic" [Official Music Video] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpGLXau0RVQ)

Wormrot "Erased Existence" [Official Music Video] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aIvLwOLBS4)

Wormrot - All Go No Emo [Dirge 2011] - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVlMN3RTH44&feature=related)

http://www.nuclearblast.de/shop/artikel/bilder/wormrot-abuse/169156.jpg?x=1000&y=1000

http://www.nuclearblast.de/shop/artikel/bilder/wormrot-dirge/180509.jpg?x=1000&y=1000

[Yvonne183]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOOa_EsKLcY



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F143kJea2tw

I'm too lazy to find anymore right now and maybe Malice Mizer isn't truly a metal band but I feel they could be on your list, after all ya got Smashing Pumpkins on the list, lol

[robertlouis]

Given the original subject of this thread, would this be a good time to mention the Dead Kennedys?

[Yvonne183]

Given the original subject of this thread, would this be a good time to mention the Dead Kennedys?

The Dead Kennedy's are on Dino's list,, Dead Kennedy's cool name for a band, Jello Biafra, cool name for anyone. lol

[Stavros]

Dino that is an amazing chart I have never seen anything like it -though had someone mentioned Norwegian Black to me I would have assumed it was smoked or snorted. Either way I fancy it would do my head in.

Historically, I wonder about the lineage of Metal before Metal: particularly if you think it developed out of the R&B scene of the 1960s: so, if the precursors to Cream (a band I saw 4 times live) should be considered, in the UK there were the two pioneers of R&B Alexis Korner and John Mayall; Mayall's band seemed to become a portal for outstanding guitarists: Clapton was followed by Peter Green who was followed by Mick Taylor who in my estimable opinion on these things was a much underrated player (I believe he subsequently hit the needle to much) -Mayall was and remains a complex and moody person but with Korner a central figure in the British development of R&B and surely through that route into Metal? But I am assuming you would not include The Soft Machine and Pink Floyd who maybe led into the Nice, Emerson Lake and Palmer and so on-?
Also in the 1960s club scene you had the Ainsley Dunbar Federation, the Yardbirds; the Pretty Things, and contemporary with Cream and Hendrix there were Ten Years After, the Irish band Taste, and Free; but like Fleetwood Mac and Chicken Shack maybe they are too blues based -? I believe I saw the first gigs of Fleetwood Mac and Free, and once had a bizarre encounter with Jeremy Spencer -long story.

Lineages in music exercise a lot of minds, I am just hitting this off the top of my head -it could get messy, like the old stuff about Bob Dylan and the folk tradition and so on and so on. Nothing to do with the Kennedy's anyway.

[Prospero]

Clapton - yes wonderful guitarist. And Hendrix - a wholly unique player. The best rock guitarist ever - endlessly inventive, playing unexpected curves and offering dazzling twists in them music. Hendrix at full pelt was like a man riding some sort of energy force. Something primal.
There is good heavy metal - Led Zeppelin at their best. But where i have to disengage is death metal, thrash etc etc... where the music is just dominated by power chords, by volume, by brute force. That's me I'm afraid.

[Yvonne183]

Dino that is an amazing chart I have never seen anything like it -though had someone mentioned Norwegian Black to me I would have assumed it was smoked or snorted. Either way I fancy it would do my head in.

Historically, I wonder about the lineage of Metal before Metal: particularly if you think it developed out of the R&B scene of the 1960s: so, if the precursors to Cream (a band I saw 4 times live) should be considered, in the UK there were the two pioneers of R&B Alexis Korner and John Mayall; Mayall's band seemed to become a portal for outstanding guitarists: Clapton was followed by Peter Green who was followed by Mick Taylor who in my estimable opinion on these things was a much underrated player (I believe he subsequently hit the needle to much) -Mayall was and remains a complex and moody person but with Korner a central figure in the British development of R&B and surely through that route into Metal? But I am assuming you would not include The Soft Machine and Pink Floyd who maybe led into the Nice, Emerson Lake and Palmer and so on-?
Also in the 1960s club scene you had the Ainsley Dunbar Federation, the Yardbirds; the Pretty Things, and contemporary with Cream and Hendrix there were Ten Years After, the Irish band Taste, and Free; but like Fleetwood Mac and Chicken Shack maybe they are too blues based -? I believe I saw the first gigs of Fleetwood Mac and Free, and once had a bizarre encounter with Jeremy Spencer -long story.

Lineages in music exercise a lot of minds, I am just hitting this off the top of my head -it could get messy, like the old stuff about Bob Dylan and the folk tradition and so on and so on. Nothing to do with the Kennedy's anyway.

Alexis Corner and John Mayall??? You are an old fart if you know these bands. Al Kooper could be added to those names, and as far as blues rock goes, Johnny Winter is right up there. But I guess the list has to start somewhere as it does in Dino's list. If we wanted to, we could go way back into groups that influenced John Mayall and that would be the Bluesmen of years ago and even then we could go further back and find who influenced them, church/gospel,, maybe slave songs if we go back that far.

I just like all kinds of music and I don't limit myself to just on e style,, I only dress goth but I like other music too.

[Stavros]

Alexis Corner and John Mayall??? You are an old fart if you know these bands. Al Cooper could be added to those names

Ouch! Sad but true I saw Mayall many times and was in the dressing room the night he sacked an entire line-up (Lowther, Taylor, Heckstall-Smith etc); I used to know one of his (many) former girlfriends. And Alice Cooper is on the list -see the Shock Rock branch. Yes, Yvonne its one of those chicken and egg issues I agree with you -is all Metal blues based, that would take it back to the Field Holler and Slave songs.

[Yvonne183]

Alexis Corner and John Mayall??? You are an old fart if you know these bands. Al Cooper could be added to those names

Ouch! Sad but true I saw Mayall many times and was in the dressing room the night he sacked an entire line-up (Lowther, Taylor, Heckstall-Smith etc); I used to know one of his (many) former girlfriends. And Alice Cooper is on the list -see the Shock Rock branch. Yes, Yvonne its one of those chicken and egg issues I agree with you -is all Metal blues based, that would take it back to the Field Holler and Slave songs.

I was only joking Starvos,, but you have great taste in music, while others were listening to the Beach Boys you listened to John Mayall.

Al Kooper:

Al Kooper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Al_Kooper_22A.jpg" class="image" title="Al Kooper at an interview in 2009"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d8/Al_Kooper_22A.jpg/220px-Al_Kooper_22A.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/d/d8/Al_Kooper_22A.jpg/220px-Al_Kooper_22A.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Kooper)

And as I read his Bio I forgot to mention Mike Bloomfield.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31EMHS65Nf0&feature=fvst

[Stavros]

Sorry I thought you meant Alice Cooper. I saw the Beach Boys when they were a headline act and we went to see some other bands (The Troggs I recall), and I had to sit through endless playings of Pet Sounds when that close friend of mine was ill and I used to visit him at home; I have managed to avoid BB ever since then but I still get chills when I hear that sound, its like vomit. Point is that teenagers try lots of things and I think thats the best way to go, we can't like everything, but it never hurts to try; and the most important thing is to appreciate good muscianship, whatever the genre.
Can you remember the first band/performer you saw?

[Yvonne183]

Sorry I thought you meant Alice Cooper. I saw the Beach Boys when they were a headline act and we went to see some other bands (The Troggs I recall), and I had to sit through endless playings of Pet Sounds when that close friend of mine was ill and I used to visit him at home; I have managed to avoid BB ever since then but I still get chills when I hear that sound, its like vomit. Point is that teenagers try lots of things and I think thats the best way to go, we can't like everything, but it never hurts to try; and the most important thing is to appreciate good muscianship, whatever the genre.
Can you remember the first band/performer you saw?

Ha ha ha, the first performer I saw was disco singer France Joli at some club in Brooklyn. But the first good band I saw was The Clash at Bonds.

I envy you Starvos, I'd love to have seen the Troggs. Did you see other similar acts like The Animals, Them, Easybeats, Kinks, Hollies, The guy that sang "Fire" Arthur something, lol. Or any other decent bands from back then?

My concert days came later on in the late 70's. Cool bands I saw were, Johnny Thunders, Damned, Siouxsie, Sisters of Mercy, Cure, Smiths, you get the picture, but the band I enjoyed most was a bunch of old guys playing guitars,, they called themselves The Ventures, lol Very good show the Ventures performed.

[runningdownthatdream]

Half of the music I like was started in your great country. Not a fan of Sabbath or the NWOBHM(New Wave Of British Heavy Metal)?

Outstanding chart! Did you put it together or is it from another source?

[Yvonne183]

Sorry I thought you meant Alice Cooper. I saw the Beach Boys when they were a headline act and we went to see some other bands (The Troggs I recall), and I had to sit through endless playings of Pet Sounds when that close friend of mine was ill and I used to visit him at home; I have managed to avoid BB ever since then but I still get chills when I hear that sound, its like vomit. Point is that teenagers try lots of things and I think thats the best way to go, we can't like everything, but it never hurts to try; and the most important thing is to appreciate good muscianship, whatever the genre.
Can you remember the first band/performer you saw?

This is what I meant when I said in an older post about people talking about their life stories. You are telling a bit about your life and I enjoy much reading about it. When reading ones past stories I get a different impression of that person, I feel closer to that person and don't think of him as political whack-job. I kinda like you now Starvos, lol

[robertlouis]

Talking about rock encounters, Arthur Brown, of "Fire!" notoriety with his flaming hat, used to teach English to my cousins in Yorkshire pre-fame, and Mick Taylor jammed with some Essex mates of mine at a charity gig in Ipswich last year.

Would anyone else agree that Fleetwood Mac in their halcyon Peter Green-led days were infinitely superior to the soft-rock swamp that they later became?

And sorry Stavros, but I love the Beach Boys, probably because of my own subsequent musical development, especially the close harmonies. Add in other 60s bands like The Association (Windy still the best feel-good summer song of them all), Mamas and Papas, Spanky and Our Gang etc in the US.

And my first gig? Fairport Convention.

[Dino Velvet]

Dino that is an amazing chart I have never seen anything like it -though had someone mentioned Norwegian Black to me I would have assumed it was smoked or snorted. Either way I fancy it would do my head in.

Historically, I wonder about the lineage of Metal before Metal: particularly if you think it developed out of the R&B scene of the 1960s: so, if the precursors to Cream (a band I saw 4 times live) should be considered, in the UK there were the two pioneers of R&B Alexis Korner and John Mayall; Mayall's band seemed to become a portal for outstanding guitarists: Clapton was followed by Peter Green who was followed by Mick Taylor who in my estimable opinion on these things was a much underrated player (I believe he subsequently hit the needle to much) -Mayall was and remains a complex and moody person but with Korner a central figure in the British development of R&B and surely through that route into Metal? But I am assuming you would not include The Soft Machine and Pink Floyd who maybe led into the Nice, Emerson Lake and Palmer and so on-?
Also in the 1960s club scene you had the Ainsley Dunbar Federation, the Yardbirds; the Pretty Things, and contemporary with Cream and Hendrix there were Ten Years After, the Irish band Taste, and Free; but like Fleetwood Mac and Chicken Shack maybe they are too blues based -? I believe I saw the first gigs of Fleetwood Mac and Free, and once had a bizarre encounter with Jeremy Spencer -long story.

Lineages in music exercise a lot of minds, I am just hitting this off the top of my head -it could get messy, like the old stuff about Bob Dylan and the folk tradition and so on and so on. Nothing to do with the Kennedy's anyway.

Nice post with some good information. Thanks. You guys have always had such a great scene. I'm jealous you got to see Cream in their prime. I'm 43 and Black Sabbath Mob Rules was my first show in 1981. My first show was the best ever.

Here's some classic British music. It's catchy. It'll get your feet tappin'.

Napalm Death- Multinational Corporations. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WuCppKyoww)

[hippifried]

I never thought of Cream as a metal band of any sort. Not even a precursor really. Clapton was a blues "purist", while the other 2 would play anything if they could stop fighting long enough. They blew onto the scene in early '68, but so did Iron Butterfly. Didn't they coin the term "heavy metal"? Hendrix was already doing his thing before that (My Hendrix poster said "like chewing aluminum foil"). Groups like the Troggs, Vanilola Fudge, the Byrds, & the Standels, had been toying with what is now considered the "metal" genre years before, & groups like the Who, the Yardbirds, & Them before that. But it's all rock 'n roll, & rock is an extention of the blues & an everyman's jazz mixed with country, American & European folk music, western, & Broadway show tunes. There was a huge experimental explosion through the mid '60s. Development of the electric guitar made it the lead instrument. Add tone benders & distortion boxes... But if you're gonna play rock 'n roll, the first thing you learn is BB King licks & Bo Diddly rhythms. Surf music was just doo wop harmonies with Chuck Berry riffs. & then there was Zappa...

Personally, I'm one of those old farts. My first name band rock concert was Canned Heat. I saw the Crazy World of Arthur Brown. I thought he was cheesy. But I saw a lot of bands during that era. It's been what, 54 years since Rock Around the Clock came out? Hmmm... Must be a passing fad.

[Stavros]

In general I think I agree that Cream were of a different order from what followed, which is why I threw in the Soft Machine and Pink Floyd. But as Hippifried indicates with his magic 3 senses, all this music has the same root cluster.

As I recall there seemed to be a determination among the bands to get louder and louder, but there was also a transition in the early 70s from club-based acts to what was once called 'stadium rock' -the volume Led Zeppelin were playing at would have burst the eardrums in a club. Indeed, until the advent of Punk, clubs became passe as people flowed into concert halls and stadiums to see bands. And that was one reason why Punk was so successful, it restored a more intimate experience, even if to my taste the music was truly bad, although I can't say that about the Clash if they are classified as Punk, I only know them from one distressing incident on the West Coast...these days clubs seem to be more about DJ's than bands, I think although we have the internet, its harder for young bands to get regular work whereas there was a time when a band could work 4 to 6 days a week travelling round Britain, and grow a fan base before going into the recording studio.

Cream started in 1966, I saw them for the first time at the Windsor Jazz and Blues Festival in 1967, the first act was Fleetwood Mac -I think it was their first gig, and yes RobertLouis, they were a meaner band than the orchestrators of Albatross (which earned them a lot of money)-however, by 1969 bands playing the blues had been around in the clubs since the early 60s and for many of the musicians had passed its sell by date and bands were moving on to songs and theatrical experiences in the manner of Pink FLoyd -possibly to the benefit of the audiences who could only take so much improvisation which bordered on Jazz- I graduated from blues and rock to Jazz for that reason, and, other than Clapton and maybe Jeff Beck who after Clapton was the most gifted of those guitarists, most guitarists didn't have enough ideas to improvise on a tune (Alvin Lee was a crushing bore for example) and I never did get either of Jack Bruce's or Ginger Baker's solos.

I did see Arthur Brown once, thought he was theatrical but musically average; odd how eventually you encounter people who knew people; Fairport Convention I am sure were at one of the free concerts they used to have in summer in Hyde Park; as for The Troggs, Yvonne -I have a vivid memory of the guards having to restrain a young woman who was trying to leap from the third tier of the Empire Pool in Wembley onto the stage: she was screaming Reg! I Love You! Reg! I Love You!; it has rung down the years....but I think the Troggs would have been better in a club. I had an opportunity to see The Doors and Jefferson Airplane at the Roundhouse in London, and turned it down, same with Hendrix -in those days we had no idea these people would be dead so young...but the same, after all, was true of those Kennedy fellers...