Bad things happening in London [Archive] - HungAngels

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sexyasianescorts

08-09-2011, 05:42 PM

London has had a terrible few days.

I would personally like to thank all of our clients who have been so understanding as obviously there have been problems with outcalls and a few clients delayed in getting to us.

There have been rumours on the news about Victoria being hit tonight but the news channels have not confiermed this.

Please be careful if you are in the city tonight :)

As always if we see any problems in an area we will reserve the right to suspend outcalls in that area and apologise to anyone that this effects.

Chloe x

lovesall

08-09-2011, 05:46 PM

To everyone in London, stay safe and hopefully it will pass soon.

maaarc

08-09-2011, 05:55 PM

a tragic situation indeed - hope order and sanity can be restored soon without further loss of life and or property

Prospero

08-09-2011, 06:30 PM

I heard a rumour that Wimbledon and Kingston were about to get it. Police were it seems telling shops to close early based on "information." Stay safe everyone.

Edwoodwoodwood

08-09-2011, 06:42 PM

As a Brit I find the whole fucking thing a complete and utter disgrace and feel embarrased to be known as a Brit.

This mindless bunch of fucking wankers need some serious treatment. The sad thing is though our policeforce are helpless to do anything and these rioters know this full well.

The police's only weapon it appears is the video camera and the threat that they will follow up with prosecution. Sorry guys but I want to see something much much stronger than that.

My suggestion (apart from an armalite) would be water cannons with indelible dye that can not wash off for at least a month. Hose the bloody lot of them and anyone in a hoodie getting involved (most of them) strip them naked and hose them with bright yellow dye. Let them try and explain that to their families or the person behind the desk the next time they try and sign on!

Sorry guys, got it off my chest now.

Stavros

08-09-2011, 06:58 PM

My suggestion (apart from an armalite)

Let me get this right: you disapprove of violence on the streets of London but don't disapprove of violence if you are using it on the streets of London...?

And if you are suggesting mass murder as a solution to social problems, you might want to explain what you do after you have begun something that has never been shown to work.

The alternative is to face up to the economic and social problems that modern life has created in a mega-city like London and find a practical solution, instead of just sitting at home and getting upset at genuinely distressing and horrible scenes. I have read some incredible drivel in the press, most of which merely exposes a latent bank of predjudice and lust for violence as bad as anything seen on the streets: but there are alternatives. I posted this in Politics & Religion but post it again here as an antidote to the 'scorched earth' crypto-fascists who can't see past the tip of their fantasy armalite -from Camila Batmanghelidjh who actuallly works with feral youth and tries to turn their lives around. She is on the battlefield, not off it. At least read what he has to say. The alternative is a form of collective despair where we all end up in bunkers or an early grave, or both.

Camila Batmanghelidjh: Caring costs – but so do riots

These rioters feel they don't actually belong to the community. For years, they’ve felt cut adrift from society
Tuesday, 9 August 2011

Shops looted, cars and buildings burnt out, young adults in hoods on the rampage.
London has woken up to street violence, and the usual narratives have emerged – punish those responsible for the violence because they are "opportunist criminals" and "disgusting thieves". The slightly more intellectually curious might blame the trouble on poor police relations or lack of policing.
My own view is that the police in this country do an impressive job and unjustly carry the consequences of a much wider social dysfunction. Before you take a breath of sarcasm thinking "here she goes, excusing the criminals with some sob story", I want to begin by stating two things. First, violence and looting can never be justified. Second, for those of us working at street level, we're not surprised by these events.
Twitter and Facebook have kept the perverse momentum going, transmitting invitations such as: "Bare shops are gonna get smashed up. So come, get some (free stuff!!!!) F... the feds we will send them back with OUR riot! Dead the ends and colour war for now. So If you see a brother... SALUTE! If you see a fed... SHOOT!"
If this is a war, the enemy, on the face of it, are the "lawless", the defenders are the law-abiding. An absence of morality can easily be found in the rioters and looters. How, we ask, could they attack their own community with such disregard? But the young people would reply "easily", because they feel they don't actually belong to the community. Community, they would say, has nothing to offer them. Instead, for years they have experienced themselves cut adrift from civil society's legitimate structures. Society relies on collaborative behaviour; individuals are held accountable because belonging brings personal benefit. Fear or shame of being alienated keeps most of us pro-social.
Working at street level in London, over a number of years, many of us have been concerned about large groups of young adults creating their own parallel antisocial communities with different rules. The individual is responsible for their own survival because the established community is perceived to provide nothing. Acquisition of goods through violence is justified in neighbourhoods where the notion of dog eat dog pervades and the top dog survives the best. The drug economy facilitates a parallel subculture with the drug dealer producing more fiscally efficient solutions than the social care agencies who are too under-resourced to compete.
The insidious flourishing of anti-establishment attitudes is paradoxically helped by the establishment. It grows when a child is dragged by their mother to social services screaming for help and security guards remove both; or in the shiny academies which, quietly, rid themselves of the most disturbed kids. Walk into the mental hospitals and there is nothing for the patients to do except peel the wallpaper. Go to the youth centre and you will find the staff have locked themselves up in the office because disturbed young men are dominating the space with their violent dogs. Walk on the estate stairwells with your baby in a buggy manoeuvring past the condoms, the needles, into the lift where the best outcome is that you will survive the urine stench and the worst is that you will be raped. The border police arrive at the neighbour's door to grab an "over-stayer" and his kids are screaming. British children with no legal papers have mothers surviving through prostitution and still there's not enough food on the table.
It's not one occasional attack on dignity, it's a repeated humiliation, being continuously dispossessed in a society rich with possession. Young, intelligent citizens of the ghetto seek an explanation for why they are at the receiving end of bleak Britain, condemned to a darkness where their humanity is not even valued enough to be helped. Savagery is a possibility within us all. Some of us have been lucky enough not to have to call upon it for survival; others, exhausted from failure, can justify resorting to it.
Our leaders still speak about how protecting the community is vital. The trouble is, the deal has gone sour. The community has selected who is worthy of help and who is not. In this false moral economy where the poor are described as dysfunctional, the community fails. One dimension of this failure is being acted out in the riots; the lawlessness is, suddenly, there for all to see. Less visible is the perverse insidious violence delivered through legitimate societal structures. Check out the price of failing to care.
I got a call yesterday morning. The kids gave me a run-down of what had happened in Brixton. A street party had been invaded by a group of young men out to grab. A few years ago, the kids who called me would have joined in, because they had nothing to lose. One had been permanently excluded from six schools. When he first arrived at Kids Company he cared so little that he would smash his head into a pane of glass and bite his own flesh off with rage. He'd think nothing of hurting others. After intensive social care and support he walked away when the riots began because he held more value in his membership of a community that has embraced him than a community that demanded his dark side.
It costs money to care. But it also costs money to clear up riots, savagery and antisocial behaviour. I leave it to you to do the financial and moral sums.
Camila Batmanghelidjh is founder of the charities The Place To Be and Kids Company
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/camila-batmanghelidjh-caring-costs-ndash-but-so-do-riots-2333991.html

Edwoodwoodwood

08-09-2011, 07:41 PM

Maybe I have misread the situation wrong then, perhaps I should go out tonight, find a hoodie and give him a big hug and offer to give him half my life savings because I feel sorry for him and I clearly don't pay enough in my taxes to go towards his needs.

I agree that there are deep social problems and the armalite was of course not a real solution but name and shame with indelible dye is.

I'm sorry Stavros but I have heard so much of this namby pamby politician crap over the years and the labour government ploughing so much money into social affairs, schools, health service etc. and nothing has changed other than we have massive debts, high unemployment and social unrest. Our borders are bursting at the seams and still more come in and stretch the social services even further.

I have paid taxes all my life in every which way I have had to whether it be personal income, corporation, national insurance, council tax, road tax, fuel tax VAT, you name it.

To hear that people can even sympathise with these mindless rioters and make out that its because of this and that I find deeply offensive. What about the furniture store that has been family run for 150 years, torched to the ground. Poor families terroised and stranded in flats whilst they burn down around them, yeah did they deserve that too.

I'm sorry but standing back and watching these thugs with mindless violence on the streets can not be tollerated. The police do a great job but are powerless to dare touch anyone because someones human rights may be breached.

Great Britain, my arse, we are a laughing stock!

Yvonne183

08-09-2011, 07:50 PM

Sounds like some guys from Baltimore are vacationing in the UK this summer.

Ha,, welcome to your future. Too bad you gave your guns away.

Dave32111

08-09-2011, 08:30 PM

Sounds like some guys from Baltimore are vacationing in the UK this summer.

Ha,, welcome to your future. Too bad you gave your guns away.

Wow - Harlem Riot of 1964 ring a bell? :roll:

Yvonne183

08-09-2011, 08:42 PM

Wow - Harlem Riot of 1964 ring a bell? :roll:

Harlem riot of 64,, that's going a ways back,,,lol Yea we here in the US had loads and loads of riots, no doubt about that. Just about every major city had a riot. It looks like it's the UKs turn for some fun, good luck and be safe.

PS-I'm also from Baltimore. I know what life is like in Baltimore. Just drive down Fulton/Monroe Ave in west Baltimore or Madison St in east Baltimore for evidence of urban decay.

Go down to the "safe"area, the harbor when there's a special event like the Easter day parade and see the wild youths rampage. Baltimore continues to have it's mini riots, it just doesn't get in the news.

SpoogeMonkey

08-09-2011, 09:13 PM

Nikka

08-09-2011, 09:20 PM

next week I have to go to hackney so I hope it pass soon :)

Yvonne183

08-09-2011, 09:55 PM

Not just London, Birmingham got it bad.

Basically, Police have had most of their powers taken away and can't crack skulls. If a copper went to hit some looting filth, he'd get a years worth of enquiry then prosecuted for hitting some innocent little lamb who is misguided.

I say bring the US police over to crack down and teach our police a few lessons in policing.

My town is filled with rumours tonight of trouble and I'm heading down to defend my town. Its about time somebody made a fucking stance, so my cricket bat comes with me if anyone goes near a shop.

I will smash these cunts into the next town if I have to.. I'm a big bloke and I pack a punch (no Kim.. I'm not talking fisting).

The only way to protect body harm and property loss is if the decent people make a stand and fight against the thugs. The police are almost always unable to defend property. The LA riots, the Williamsburg NY riots, the police stood back to let the thugs blow off steam, to get it out of their system. While the police stood back, peoples property was destroyed.

I lived in the Bronx during the blackout of 77. Some shop owners sat on a chair outside their store with shotguns. Those stores were untouched by the thugs. In the LA riots it wasn't until the Korean store owners took up arms did the police finally decide to move in.

For the most part these thugs are cowards, if you met one on the street alone they would look to the ground with fear. If the people defend themselves the thugs would go away, they are cowards.

Anyways,, to me the riots in the UK just looks like a big football match.

Stavros

08-09-2011, 10:50 PM

sexyasianescorts

08-09-2011, 11:05 PM

I like Edwoods idea although I did see loads of peoples doors being broken down and arrested on the news.

Looks like Manchester has it bad tonight. Miami SWAT thats what we should have. Give the police a bit more freedom and stop making them feel like they are working with their hands behind their backs.

Stay safe everybody

Chloe x

russtafa

08-10-2011, 03:54 AM

these youth's could go to Afghanistan for peace keeping duties and take out their aggression out on the locals

onmyknees

08-10-2011, 04:15 AM

these youth's could go to Afghanistan for peace keeping duties and take out their aggression out on the locals

there's no windows to break, or flat screen TV's to be had there Russ !

russtafa

08-10-2011, 04:33 AM

yes but maybe they could steal or rob or bash one of the locals

Nicole Dupre

08-10-2011, 04:49 AM

yes but maybe they could steal or rob or bash one of the locals
I can understand not caring one way or the other about Afghanistan, but why go overboard? I mean, why would anyone in their right mind go there to do anything? Do you wanna go? You should join Black Water. lol

russtafa

08-10-2011, 05:05 AM

no im not breaking the law and being a tough guy on the streets of England ,robbing,bashing,burning,destroying the towns and city's.if these people want to be tough they should go to Afghanistan where they know how to deal with tough guys

Nicole Dupre

08-10-2011, 05:06 AM

russtafa

08-10-2011, 05:58 AM

thanks Nicole i think its so wrong what these poor people in London have to go thru with these young thugs

OmarZ

08-10-2011, 06:03 AM

I heard a rumour that Wimbledon and Kingston were about to get it. Police were it seems telling shops to close early based on "information." Stay safe everyone.

No way, rich people are protected by the police

nonnonnon

08-10-2011, 06:15 AM

if it's good enough for Egypt and Libya...

russtafa

08-10-2011, 06:15 AM

rich or poor looting, rape or bashing is wrong

OmarZ

08-10-2011, 06:23 AM

rich or poor looting, rape or bashing is wrong

Filthy rich is even worse, and London is a save haven for those... those russian oligarchs, indian slavedrivers, thai criminals...

Ben

08-10-2011, 06:42 AM

Tuesday, Aug 9, 2011 11:38 ET The right's non-reaction to the London riots (http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/08/09/london_riots/index.html)

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/08/09/london_riots/md_horiz.jpg AP

A property is on fire near Reeves Corner in Croydon, south London Tuesday, Aug. 9, 2011.

By Mark Adomanis

London has been ablaze for the past three nights and has experienced what is clearly its worst civil unrest in decades. The rioting has now spread (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14457226) to other cities in England and no one really knows how much longer it will last. I spoke to some friends in London and they described an otherworldly atmosphere of panic and disorder: rumors are now swirling that the Police have been instructed to use rubber bullets to disperse the crowds, and riot control units from the length and breadth of the entire country are converging on London to bring the situation back into some sort of control.

Using a phenomenon as complex, unwieldy, and unpredictable as a riot to score political points is dangerous. As Paul Campos of the blog Lawyers Guns & Money said (http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2011/08/londons-burning-with-boredom-now?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter), "Urban riots are usually complex events, in which people participate for many reasons, ranging from simple boredom and criminal opportunism on one end, to conscious political protest on the other."
Judging from all available press reports, it seems that the rioters have no clear political grievances whatsoever besides, perhaps, a generalized hatred of the better off and "the system." Most of the violence, theft, and property destruction have been committed by people that seem to be taking advantage of the atmosphere of chaos to pocket clothing, electronics, and food that they might otherwise be unaffordable. In other words, while there are undoubtedly some "root causes" the violence in London, which has occurred overwhelmingly within immigrant communities themselves, seems to be almost entirely about opportunistic criminality and inchoate rage.
Notably absent from the London riots, and from any press reporting about them, is a religious angle. Almost all accounts, from left-wing and right-wing press outlets alike, agree that the disturbances are overwhelmingly about class tensions, and are not about race or religion -- one can peruse images of the rioters and quite easily see that the youth are a mixed collection of (to use British parlance) Asians, Afro-Caribbeans, and whites.
To say that the conservative press has been reticent to comment about the London rioting would be a pretty serious understatement. Ground zero for movement conservatives, National Review Online’s The Corner (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner) didn’t have its first post up about the London riots until almost 8 PM on August 8th, and that was a simple cut-and-paste from the Daily Telegraph. As of the writing of this article, roughly 9am on Tuesday August 9th, The Corner had one additional post by the same author that was also largely a cutting-and-pasting of another article from the Daily Telegraph. Noted civilization warriors such as Victor Davis Hanson, Mark Steyn, Theodore Dalrymple, and Daniel Pipes, who have in the past shouted themselves horse about the lethal danger that multiculturalism poses to "The West," haven’t said anything at all.
National Review writers, however, did manage to find the time to write posts about: the debt ceiling crisis, the administration’s treatment of S&P, the Iowa primary, Rick Perry, Margaret Thatcher, union busting in Wisconsin, the Tea Party (or to be more particular, the media’s horribly unfair treatment of it), the Eurozone, and the issue of "liberal media bias."
The Weekly Standard’s blog was little different -- the first post mentioning (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/happy-hour-when-obama-speaks-markets-respond_582145.html) the London riots appeared at 7PM on August 8th and was simply the pasting of a link to an article in the Murdoch-owned tabloid The Sun. Weekly Standard writers did have enough time to cover Tibet’s new leader, union busting in Wisconsin, several aspects of Barack Obama’s wretchedness, Afghanistan, and the "national popular vote" effort to reform the electoral college.
Over at Commentary (http://%28http//www.commentarymagazine.com/), meanwhile, there hasn’t been anything about the riots in London but, over the past three days, there have been articles about Mitt Romney, the US-Israel alliance, Rick Perry, Michele Bachmann, allegations of Newsweek’s sexism, and several articles on the comprehensive wretchedness of Barack Obama.
Now it is always difficult, of course, to complain about something that hasn’t actually been written -- if you made a point of criticizing someone only for things that they hadn’t done, you would (justifiably) be considered crazy.
However, I very clearly remember the far more energetic, effusive, and borderline hysterical manner in which the conservative press reacted to a series of riots in Paris back in the fall of 2005. I remember because, back then, I myself was something of a lunatic neoconservative and even joined in with a thoroughly wretched contribution (http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=509879) to the "Muslims are scary and evil!" chorus.
Rather than shout myself hoarse describing the hypocrisy and double standards of people who bravely label themselves defenders or moral absolutism, and who never tire of accusing liberals of "relativism," I’m simply going to paste some choice quotes that conservatives used to describe the Paris riots which were, in scale and intensity, broadly similar to those which are now taking place in London. You can decide for yourselves whether their rhetoric and outrage about rioting Muslim youth in Paris matches their near-total silence about rioting multi-ethnic and multi-religious youth in London:

The Eurabian civil war appears to have started some years ahead of my optimistic schedule…the rioters aren't doing a bad impression of the Muslim armies of 13 centuries ago: They're seizing their opportunities, testing their foe, probing his weak spots. -- Mark Steyn (http://www.jewishworldreview.com/1105/steyn110705.php3?printer_friendly)
That French officials show no sign, on the eighth day of the Paris riots, of recognizing that this clash of values is the heart of the problem only guarantees that before they will be able to say that their difficulties with their Muslim population are behind them, many more cars will be torched, many more buildings burned, and many more lives destroyed. -- Robert Spencer (http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=6707)
Geography, size, and number of Muslims all make France a pivotal element in what amounts to a cultural conflict of continental dimensions. Added to the Madrid bombings of 3/11/04 and the London bombings of 7/11/05, the riots in France force the old continent to realize that there is a "Muslim problem" related to, but not just to, the Islamist terrorist problem -- Michael Radu (http://old.nationalreview.com/comment/radu200511140824.asp)
The rioting by Muslim youth that began October 27 in France to calls of "Allahu Akbar" may be a turning point in European history…The French can respond in three ways. They can feel guilty and appease the rioters with prerogatives and the "massive investment plan" some are demanding. Or they can heave a sigh of relief when it ends and, as they did after earlier crises, return to business as usual. Or they can understand this as the opening salvo in a would-be revolution and take the difficult steps to undo the negligence and indulgence of past decades. -- Daniel Pipes (http://www.danielpipes.org/3113/reflections-on-the-revolution-in-france)
These scenes are not from the West Bank but from 20 French cities, mostly close to Paris, that have been plunged into a European version of the intifada… It is now clear that a good portion of France's Muslims not only refuse to assimilate into "the superior French culture," but firmly believe that Islam offers the highest forms of life to which all mankind should aspire. -- Amir Taheri (http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=6646)

How can rioting by disaffected youth in one Western European capital city be evidence of a titanic civilizational struggle and of a all-out "civil war" while rioting by disaffected youth in another Western European capital city is evidence of nothing in particular? Surely it doesn’t reflect an undue focus on Islam as a religion, right?

UPDATE

After I finished writing this post, I went back to check NRO, and two of their writers had finally (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/274070/let-britain-burn-john-derbyshire) responded (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/274069/how-societies-surrender-british-version-michael-auslin) to the London rioting by doing more than cutting and pasting a newspaper article.
I’ll let you decide whether these rather tepid efforts, which seem to reflect a generalized dislike of the underclass as opposed to fear that "THE MUSLIMS ARE TAKING OVER THE WORLD," are in keeping with previous conservative hysteria on the topic of youth rioters.

hippifried

08-10-2011, 06:48 AM

Oh... So this is just rioting for the hell of it? Burn baby burn!

This thread is actually the best information I've seen on this situation.

russtafa

08-10-2011, 07:06 AM

looks like the old bover boys have to clean up the streets again.love to see the good old teds and skins kicking these kids around the town

Dino Velvet

08-10-2011, 07:16 AM

I pray you guys put a stop to this shit soon. I've always been fond of your country and people and hate seeing this. If the police can't stop this the good English citizens will.

theone1982

08-10-2011, 07:18 AM

I hope all of our British friends on this board stay safe. According to the news here in the U.S. things might be starting to calm down.

robertlouis

08-10-2011, 08:19 AM

Sounds like some guys from Baltimore are vacationing in the UK this summer.

Ha,, welcome to your future. Too bad you gave your guns away.

Sorry Yvonne - adding guns to the riots would have helped somehow? SMH.

robertlouis

08-10-2011, 08:31 AM

As always, the sociological background to the situation is infinitely more complex. Yes, there's an adrenaline-fuelled mob mentality which spreads and unites, but the reasons for being out on the streets in the first place are many, and vary from individual to individual.

It's a mix of the disaffected, disenfranchised, poor and the frankly not very bright on the one hand, and the having fun, let's torch the high street on the other.

Could be we're witnessing unrest in the UK for the first time in which the primary motivation for many is to see what you can get for free - "consumer riots".

And as others here have hinted, it's far more widespread than the mainstream media would suggest. Many towns in the north west have been affected, not just the major conurbations, for example. I learned yesterday that a town, Wellingborough, which is not far away from my home village, had its own night of rioting. No reports anywhere so far.

PomonaCA

08-10-2011, 08:32 AM

Don't worry, guys. Soon the good Englishmen will defend their lives and property.

With Sporks and butterknives.

Dino Velvet

08-10-2011, 08:33 AM

Stay safe, Robert.

PomonaCA

08-10-2011, 08:49 AM

Stay safe, Robert.

Don't worry Dino. He'll be safe. You can tell he's watching the violence on TV because it's always the punks with nothing to lose who sympathize with the idiot thugs. We saw this in Orange County during the LA riots.

robertlouis

08-10-2011, 09:07 AM

Don't worry, guys. Soon the good Englishmen will defend their lives and property.

With Sporks and butterknives.

Wrong. In Birmingham and London last night retailers banded together with assorted (non-artillery) weaponry to defend their property. You'll love this, of course, for many the weapon of choice was a cricket bat! Interestingly, they weren't accusing the police of holding back and allowing wanton destruction, rather they sympathised and recognised that the police were simply too thinly spread to be fully effective.

And piss off with your implication that the Brits are hopeless wimps just because we don't carry huge cannons everywhere like you do to compensate for your tiny dicks. Any guy who is useful with his fists is twice the man of any prick who carries a gun. SMH.

robertlouis

08-10-2011, 09:09 AM

Stay safe, Robert.

Thanks mate. No problems for me. I live in a rural village with a population of 1500 and an average age of 60+.

Any riot here would be about an increase in the price of Pinot Noir and they'd just parade limply down the High Street tutting mildly....:)

russtafa

08-10-2011, 09:23 AM

:praying:Teddy boys and Skins back on the streets

fab

08-10-2011, 09:26 AM

I like the water canon with dye. But as we know it here in England a bit of rain will soon dampen the spirits of these wankers. Only prob rain is forecasted for Thursday.

robertlouis

08-10-2011, 09:41 AM

This headline appeared in Sunday's Observer under Nick Cohen's byline.

He'll never live it down!

No riots here. Just quiet, ever-deeper misery

russtafa

08-10-2011, 09:55 AM

Australian police are so politically correct that they tuck our little scum bags into bed and i suspect that the pommie cops are the same

robertlouis

08-10-2011, 10:01 AM

Australian police are so politically correct that they tuck our little scum bags into bed and i suspect that the pommie cops are the same

No they don't, Russ. True, they aim for containment first and confrontation if they have to, which is by far the pragmatically most sensible approach, but the real problem in dealing with the aftermath of this will be how the courts deal with the offenders, particularly when the prisons are already full to bursting.

AmyDaly

08-10-2011, 10:06 AM

Are there still riots going on over there?

russtafa

08-10-2011, 10:09 AM

the Romans would have crucified them from one end of the U.K to the other as a lesson.god bless the good old days

Nicole Dupre

08-10-2011, 10:12 AM

Are there still riots going on over there?
There are recent news articles about it all. I assume so.

robertlouis

08-10-2011, 10:19 AM

Are there still riots going on over there?

Yes, but fewer in London and more in other cities. Hopefully they're burning themselves out, if you'll excuse the pun, Amy.

It's all that Nikka's fault lol.

Prospero

08-10-2011, 10:31 AM

The coverage of all this is vivid. But for those of us out of the combat zone the truth comes home when you travel just a mile f and find gutted shops, terrified local businessmen and women. Some corner store people have lost everything - and were living so marginally they had no insurance. It's heartbreaking. Our Government's response is to call it "criminality pure and simple" without looking at the deeper and troubling roots of this. Yes we have to stop it now - if necessary with force majeur. But think about its causes. The lower depths who have no moral compass or sense of hope anymore. And the roots of THAT are in the values that have permeated our society since Thatcher's time... "greed is good' as proclaimed in the Wall Street movie. But mob violence always takes the same form. Shakespeare knew this long ago. He wrote in Julius Caeser of how the mob killed a writer called Sina mistaking him for a politician because he had the same first name. More recently UK mobs attacked a paediatricians home because they didn't know the difference between that and a paedophile. Crowds and power... they lose all restraint when they see everyone around them acting badly. And there has also been a loss of any respect in the wider public for the police. Most are ordinary men and women doing a dangerous and thankless task. but recently we've also seen corruption at the top (in the scandal over phone hacking and payments to the police) and thuggery in the ranks - the shooting that triggered this (excuse the pun) the police killing of the brazilian Jean de mendes on a Tube train after he was mistaken for a Jihadist, the casual killing and cover up of a newspaper vendor during the student protests and many other unreported incidents of brutality by police against young black people. The list goes on and on. But our politicians thunder that this is "criminality, pure and simple" and make to wave a big stick. it is neither pure nor simple - like much of the truth about things. it is complex and troubling.

Nicole Dupre

08-10-2011, 10:32 AM

Yes, but fewer in London and more in other cities.
Doesn't this stuff happen all the time at soccer games in all of those areas anyway? You guys should just have a few quick football games, and see if you can trap them all in a few stadiums.

Prospero

08-10-2011, 10:33 AM

[QUOTE=robertlouis;983687]Yes, but fewer in London and more in other cities./QUOTE]
Doesn't this stuff happen all the time at soccer games in all of those areas anyway? You guys should just have a few quick football games, and see if you can trap them all in a few stadiums.

LOL... a bit like a mousetrap with soccer as the bait?

Nicole Dupre

08-10-2011, 10:34 AM

Sorry to joke. It's actually pretty nauseating.

Prospero

08-10-2011, 10:36 AM

Humour is crucial sometimes. No probs.

Edwoodwoodwood

08-10-2011, 01:44 PM

Doesn't this stuff happen all the time at soccer games in all of those areas anyway? You guys should just have a few quick football games, and see if you can trap them all in a few stadiums.

Nicole the football season (premiership) is due to kick of this weekend in UK plus England have got a friendly game due. They are now talking about postponing a lot of the games due in part because the police can do without the extra hassle as they are already stretched.

One big issue here is lack of respect. When I was a kid, and even today you feared a copper. When I was a kid at our local football ground there was a copper, a big old guy and he would parade amongst the terraces and if anyone was out for trouble he would take them out the back and have a quiet word with them, so to speak. I'm not saying that police brutality is to be encouraged but sometimes a clip around the year does gain respect.

The youth now blatantly stick their fingers up at the police and shout abuse in the safety that they know they can get away with it. When I was a kid I knew who my parents were and I would respect them and the family unit. The problem in Britain and worldwide I believe is that there are so many ferral kids from unknown backgrounds who have never been bought up in a safe family haven that this is where the contempt starts.

The other underlying thing with these riots is that there are so many kids out there involved with this who are quite frankly not very bright. I heard one of them shouting at a reporter that it was there way of getting some of their taxes back. Fuck off I don't suppose for one minute this individual had even paid any tax other than a bit of VAT on drink & fags.

A lot of these thugs just want an excuse for a night out and a good old tear up to get some free trainers & TV's and just make a nuisance of themselves for the sake of it. Ignorant fucks!!

Prospero

08-10-2011, 01:48 PM

I heard a kid being interviewed. He boasted about stealing stuff and the reporter asked him how he'd feel if his own home was trashed and he said he'd be outraged. No joining up of any dots here.

robertlouis

08-10-2011, 01:52 PM

I heard a kid being interviewed. He boasted about stealing stuff and the reporter asked him how he'd feel if his own home was trashed and he said he'd be outraged. No joining up of any dots here.

Any inquest has to look into underlying causes, including social deprivation etc, and the appropriate action taken. But it is really hard right now to feel anything but anger and contempt for these little fuckers.

Punish now, rehabilitate later.

Fuck, I sound like David Cameron. Without the accent, obviously. :whistle:

Prospero

08-10-2011, 01:57 PM

Amusing to see the spluttering Ed sec last night on Newsnight sounding like Colonel Blimp though. Its all sturm und drang to the Tories - hit em with a bigger stick and it'll all be over It's got to be put down hard - but afterwards, later, there HAS to be some deep thinking about why it happened. Or it will happen again.

robertlouis

08-10-2011, 02:06 PM

russtafa

08-10-2011, 03:22 PM

or let this thing go on happening until society snaps and their are some very very harsh punishments for the offenders actions .these riots if not checked could mean the reshaping of society's laws and what is tolerated

Yvonne183

08-10-2011, 03:23 PM

Sorry Yvonne - adding guns to the riots would have helped somehow? SMH.

If you would have read my other post on this thread there you will see I gave an example on how guns would have helped. if you don't want to go back and read it I will say it again.

When I lived in the Bronx there was a blackout and looting in 1977. Many stores were destroyed by the thugs. But some store owners, especially those owners along Westchester Ave, Arthur Ave, Took shotguns and stood or sat in chairs in front of their stores. The shotguns were never used but these stores were not attacked by the thugs

You English have every right to run your country the way you want, if that means no one can own guns, so be it. But I just gave you an example on how guns do protect. You can give many examples of the horrors of guns but guns do protect people.

You have just witnessed how helpless your police are when an emergency arises, it takes days before they can react. It is very similar here in the US in some places like Baltimore, the police aren't always able to answer a call for help and that is not under a riot condition. Here in the US the police are an "after the fact" force. they are no way able to protect anyone in an emergency, the people have to do it themselves or they will be harmed or die.

So, all you English, get out your brooms and clean the mess that the thugs created,, that'll show the thugs that you guys mean business, ha ha ha

russtafa

08-10-2011, 03:39 PM

:Bowdown:Yvonne for general of the tgirl army

sexyasianescorts

08-10-2011, 03:46 PM

Water Canons and Plartic bullets aprooved. Well done but that only took 4 days of riots

Scotland are now on alert so be careful up there :)

Chloe x

dbev

08-10-2011, 04:01 PM

http://www.prisonplanet.com/claim-youths-offered-money-to-start-riots.html

Violence in Leicester after “journalists” tried to pay off kids, according to Tweets
Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Wednesday, August 10, 2011
As massive unrest plaguing the United Kingdom spread from London to other cities last night, claims emerged that individuals calling themselves journalists were offering to pay youths to start riots, suggesting an effort to provocateur some of the violence.
According to Tweets sent by people who were in the city of Leicester last night trying to secure their communities, kids were being told to cause mayhem in return for cash. Leicester was hit by violence later that night, as youths attacked buildings in the city center.
“There were swarms of hooded Asian, black and white youths in their 20s, and some as young as 12, being hounded out of Leicester city centre at around midnight,” nightclub owner James Cockerill told the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-14472178).

Yvonne183

08-10-2011, 04:03 PM

:Bowdown:Yvonne for general of the tgirl army

I would rather be Field Marshall, like my hero, The King of Scotland Idi Amin.

Funny thing,,, rioters in Libya are called protesters and protesters in the UK are called rioters.

Hebrew Hammer

08-10-2011, 06:48 PM

robertlouis

08-10-2011, 06:51 PM

Water Canons and Plartic bullets aprooved. Well done but that only took 4 days of riots

Scotland are now on alert so be careful up there :)

Chloe x

Yes but...

Water cannons available "on 24 hours notice".

"Sorry rioters, we haven't got the cannons just now, can you come back same time tomorrow?"

Wanker politicians.

robertlouis

08-10-2011, 07:00 PM

If you would have read my other post on this thread there you will see I gave an example on how guns would have helped. if you don't want to go back and read it I will say it again.

When I lived in the Bronx there was a blackout and looting in 1977. Many stores were destroyed by the thugs. But some store owners, especially those owners along Westchester Ave, Arthur Ave, Took shotguns and stood or sat in chairs in front of their stores. The shotguns were never used but these stores were not attacked by the thugs

You English have every right to run your country the way you want, if that means no one can own guns, so be it. But I just gave you an example on how guns do protect. You can give many examples of the horrors of guns but guns do protect people.

You have just witnessed how helpless your police are when an emergency arises, it takes days before they can react. It is very similar here in the US in some places like Baltimore, the police aren't always able to answer a call for help and that is not under a riot condition. Here in the US the police are an "after the fact" force. they are no way able to protect anyone in an emergency, the people have to do it themselves or they will be harmed or die.

So, all you English, get out your brooms and clean the mess that the thugs created,, that'll show the thugs that you guys mean business, ha ha ha

Sorry Yvonne, I hadn't read your earlier post which puts it all into context.

I take your point, but in light of our present gun laws, which I personally hope remain every bit as draconian as they do now in spite of these riots, many shopkeepers are organising themselves into unofficial response units wielding baseball bats, coshes and (this is England after all) cricket bats!

There hasn't been any official response to this that I've heard so far, but if the police are too stretched to defend property, businesses and livelihoods, then it's difficult to see what else people can do apart from stand back and watch their businesses burn down. The test will come of and when the police decide to take action against someone who uses what's seen as undue force in protecting their property. That's when the balloon will really go up.

And it's actually heartening to see the real communities get together to clear up the mess. Don't laugh at these people.

And finally, sweety, I'm not English....

robertlouis

08-10-2011, 07:03 PM

Proper prior planning prevents piss poor performance.
How can you be a MEGA city in what is already one of the most locked down nations on earth and not have a police force with proper training enough to put down a riot early?

Nobody could have realistically anticipated violence on this scale spreading at such a speed - the last time we experienced something like this was exactly 30 years ago. You don't staff up for a once in a generation possibility.

And what makes us a "locked down" society? The lack of access to guns?

I'd far rather live here, thank you.

Yvonne183

08-10-2011, 07:30 PM

Sorry Yvonne, I hadn't read your earlier post which puts it all into context.

I take your point, but in light of our present gun laws, which I personally hope remain every bit as draconian as they do now in spite of these riots, many shopkeepers are organising themselves into unofficial response units wielding baseball bats, coshes and (this is England after all) cricket bats!

There hasn't been any official response to this that I've heard so far, but if the police are too stretched to defend property, businesses and livelihoods, then it's difficult to see what else people can do apart from stand back and watch their businesses burn down. The test will come of and when the police decide to take action against someone who uses what's seen as undue force in protecting their property. That's when the balloon will really go up.

And it's actually heartening to see the real communities get together to clear up the mess. Don't laugh at these people.

And finally, sweety, I'm not English....

Ha ha ha,, Scottish-English, same thing, lol Come to the US and you would be neither Scottish or English, you'd be classified as other. If you go to New York you'd be Irish. ha

I don't laugh at the people themselves, I just laugh at the foolishness. The exact same thing would happen in liberal areas of Baltimore, instead of fighting for their property, they would have a wine and cheese party of love and understanding. Thugs fear a few things, being beaten up, or being killed, they don't fear the police, they don't fear jail and they certainty don't fear a broom sweep up party. They will be back cause your laws and lifestyle creates their behavior,, they will be back it's now you're future.

And for crying out loud,, am I right, are you really Scottish? The same guys who marched right into battle playing drums and bagpipes. Why the fear of guns from such a tough lot like you guys. Why don't the people use a bit of that old Scotch toughness and kick the thugs asses? The Scotch, Welsh, English, Irish decedents here in redneckville wouldn't sit back and wait 4 days for the police to arrive. I might not like how rednecks show hate towards me, but I am much more safer living in a redneckish area than some inner city liberal areas. Despite what one thinks, the rednecks do stand together when challenged and I gotta give them credit for that, unlike most city liberals who think the police and laws will protect them, sometimes liberals seem to live in a dream world when it comes to personal safety.

Hebrew Hammer

08-10-2011, 07:36 PM

Nobody could have realistically anticipated violence on this scale spreading at such a speed - the last time we experienced something like this was exactly 30 years ago. You don't staff up for a once in a generation possibility.

And what makes us a "locked down" society? The lack of access to guns?

I'd far rather live here, thank you.

Mass surveillance, detention without trial for citizens.... and it doesn't take a massive amount of resources to have your officers annually trained in a refresher course on how to handle this type of situation. The hire ups of the police force acted too little too late. An increased presence of force early on could have easily kept this this from evolving into the mass reason to riot that it's become. The mob mentality of citizens who otherwise wouldn't have normally joined in on the rioting was encouraged by a lack of commitment from any significant reactionary force. The metropolitan police just dug their heads in the sand and hoped it would all blow over.

robertlouis

08-10-2011, 08:06 PM

Ha ha ha,, Scottish-English, same thing, lol Come to the US and you would be neither Scottish or English, you'd be classified as other. If you go to New York you'd be Irish. ha

I don't laugh at the people themselves, I just laugh at the foolishness. The exact same thing would happen in liberal areas of Baltimore, instead of fighting for their property, they would have a wine and cheese party of love and understanding. Thugs fear a few things, being beaten up, or being killed, they don't fear the police, they don't fear jail and they certainty don't fear a broom sweep up party. They will be back cause your laws and lifestyle creates their behavior,, they will be back it's now you're future.

And for crying out loud,, am I right, are you really Scottish? The same guys who marched right into battle playing drums and bagpipes. Why the fear of guns from such a tough lot like you guys. Why don't the people use a bit of that old Scotch toughness and kick the thugs asses? The Scotch, Welsh, English, Irish decedents here in redneckville wouldn't sit back and wait 4 days for the police to arrive. I might not like how rednecks show hate towards me, but I am much more safer living in a redneckish area than some inner city liberal areas. Despite what one thinks, the rednecks do stand together when challenged and I gotta give them credit for that, unlike most city liberals who think the police and laws will protect them, sometimes liberals seem to live in a dream world when it comes to personal safety.

Yvonne, from your perspective and from your experience you are absolutely right, because your laws, culture and history allow for citizens' armed response to things like this. Ours doesn't, and it's too big a switch to start changing it suddenly, especially in response to one series of incidents like this. We do things differently here, and on balance that's how I'd like it to stay.

As for community tidying, these are hard, working-class communities, not effete liberals (like me lol) who are showing their ability to pull together in defiance of right-wing media declarations that it is their youngsters that have caused the destruction in the first place. All power to them.

OK, I admit that I live in a small rural community and am therefore very unlikely to experience any of the mayhem of the last few days and nights in the cities, but I have never and will never subscribe to the "stop violence, arm the police" rhetoric.

As a Glaswegian - and few cities in the world have a harder reputation - I'll stand up to anyone with my fists, but I'm not going to carry a knife or worse still a gun under any circumstances, and I mean any.

And for the record, knowing that there are almost as many guns in private ownership as there are people in the US doesn't make me feel safer when I travel to your country. Quite the opposite.

russtafa

08-11-2011, 02:13 AM

i say bring back corporal punishment like Singapore where their are no riots and never will be any riots

Ben

08-11-2011, 02:39 AM

I have family in England. So I am following it. England has a lot of problems. Just like America. And every other country.
I think everyone wants to live in a utopian society. But life is just too complex for that -- :(
The English musician Robert Smith [of The Cure -- pretty pic below] said he wishes he could end the blind intolerance that exists between the races and religions.
A lot of problems in England stem from racism. Especially institutional racism. And, too, a hard right political agenda. The last thing, in my opinion, England needs is cuts. I mean, like America, the problem is a dearth or lack of demand. Either demand comes from private business or the government. But business isn't spending. So government has to pick up the slack.

russtafa

08-11-2011, 02:55 AM

Ben

08-11-2011, 03:24 AM

ben most of these people rioting were on the dole?one young scum bag was reported as saying we are getting our taxes back,i doubt this wanker has ever paid taxes or done any sort of work in his life, paid or charity

russtafa, I think... I hope it's a small number. I mean, most people are decent and moral. (Actually, I heard that a lot of these looters are gang members. Criminals. Again, it's a small fraction of society. But they're criminals.
I mean, why attack and destroy small businesses? Does a mindless mob mentality take over? These criminals should be caught and prosecuted.
It's disgusting to attack and destroy a small Mom & Pop store. It's sick. If these people have grievances then they should organize and peacefully take to the streets. That's how change happens. Societal change -- for the good -- comes through peaceful demonstrations. I mean, the LGBT movement has done it -- and continues to do it.
But I don't think these thugs have a political cause. I think a lot of them simply want Nike sneakers -- or trainers, as they say in jolly old England... :)
The Republican Ron Paul has talked about the problem of inflation. He said a lot of problems are stemming from the devaluation of the (American) dollar and the rise in prices around the world. I think he has hit the nail on the head. And then the government, as Ron Paul pointed out, prints money to get itself out of the problem, well, it only makes it worse. Ron Paul is sensible. That is why he'll never be President -- ha ha ha! Plus he understands economics. Unlike Obama and Bush before him....

Dino Velvet

08-11-2011, 03:32 AM

Are there people there as bad as those maggot kids from Harry Brown? I wanted to empty an MP5 at the movie screen when I saw the film. Decent people getting abused by street urchins is never good.

robertlouis

08-11-2011, 03:41 AM

Are there people there as bad as those maggot kids from Harry Brown? I wanted to empty an MP5 at the movie screen when I saw the film. Decent people getting abused by street urchins is never good.

Yes, there are some. But they're by no means a majority.

Dino Velvet

08-11-2011, 03:43 AM

Yes, there are some. But they're by no means a majority.

Just curious. They were mean to Michael Caine though. I don't play that shit either. Michael Caine is a good man.

http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l1thpbaizK1qzc7qbo1_400.jpg

Ben

08-11-2011, 03:45 AM

London Riots 2011 - Man Helped and Then Robbed. (Malaysian student / Asyraf Haziq) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNh-fTv1Gm8)

Update on The Mugged Kid! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3odrI3BNPeA)

Ben

08-11-2011, 03:55 AM

What Caused The London Riots? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtYPN9jP1Nw)

robertlouis

08-11-2011, 04:13 AM

What Caused The London Riots? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtYPN9jP1Nw)

Darcus Howe always has an interesting, not to say very provocative, stance on these issues. But he's well away from the general consensus of UK black community opinion.

Yvonne183

08-11-2011, 04:50 AM

Yvonne, from your perspective and from your experience you are absolutely right, because your laws, culture and history allow for citizens' armed response to things like this. Ours doesn't, and it's too big a switch to start changing it suddenly, especially in response to one series of incidents like this. We do things differently here, and on balance that's how I'd like it to stay.

As for community tidying, these are hard, working-class communities, not effete liberals (like me lol) who are showing their ability to pull together in defiance of right-wing media declarations that it is their youngsters that have caused the destruction in the first place. All power to them.

OK, I admit that I live in a small rural community and am therefore very unlikely to experience any of the mayhem of the last few days and nights in the cities, but I have never and will never subscribe to the "stop violence, arm the police" rhetoric.

As a Glaswegian - and few cities in the world have a harder reputation - I'll stand up to anyone with my fists, but I'm not going to carry a knife or worse still a gun under any circumstances, and I mean any.

And for the record, knowing that there are almost as many guns in private ownership as there are people in the US doesn't make me feel safer when I travel to your country. Quite the opposite.

As I said before, you people in your country can live by whatever law you deem fit. If that means no one is allowed guns then more power to ya, it's your country.

I never said that our country is totally safe with all the gun ownership. The same exact thugs that rioted in your country also live in our cities. They cause similar mayhem as your thugs. The thing that bothers me is that when reading topics on web forums, people in the UK are always criticizing the US for our ways, our laws. We are criticized for being harsh on certain peoples in our country while the people of the UK are so understanding and so helpful with their social programs that we in the barbaric US don't have. Yet somehow with all the social programs you people still got riots. The US is far from perfect,but it gets tiring to hear from European cheese eaters how much they hate the US and especially the rural redneck Americans. There are no riots in rural America. When there is a disaster like a tornado, hurricane or flood in rural America there is no looting.

And quite a few people in rural America are poor, like in West Virginia, yet I have never read or heard about any riots in these parts of the US. If regular crime statistics were compared between poor people of West Virginia and poor people in Baltimore City, you'd see a wide difference of statistics between the two areas. So saying poverty or right wing policies are to blame is nonsense.

One day, soon I hope, people will wake up and see that these are just thugs, nothing else, just thugs.

As far as feeling safe, I feel a lot safer going to an American football game than i would to an English football game.

russtafa

08-11-2011, 07:39 AM

i think this thing has really rattled the status quo and the government or the police wont be held in such respect by the taxpayers of pommie land any more and there will be a demand for change in the way the way the country is policed and governed

Edwoodwoodwood

08-11-2011, 04:52 PM

Photos from the Daily Mail on-line of just a few of the rioters caught on CCTV.

Now without making light of it we all know who Colonel Sanders is don't we, wtf is he doing getting caught on CCTV. :)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/10/article-2024120-0D610D5900000578-771_634x416.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/09/article-2024120-0D5D415D00000578-578_306x423.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/09/article-2024120-0D5D3F5200000578-203_306x423.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/09/article-2024120-0D5D3F6D00000578-713_634x468.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/09/article-2024120-0D5D416B00000578-131_306x423.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/09/article-2024120-0D5D422500000578-92_306x423.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/09/article-2024120-0D5D425E00000578-934_634x440.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/09/article-2024120-0D5D40AA00000578-529_306x423.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/08/09/article-2024120-0D5D426D00000578-405_306x423.jpg

SammiValentine

08-11-2011, 05:30 PM

As far as feeling safe, I feel a lot safer going to an American football game than i would to an English football game.
]

you could not be safer at a "soccer" game nowadays. its a family game, bring a jester hat, eat a hotdog and boo your own team for not entertaining.

robertlouis

08-11-2011, 05:37 PM

]

you could not be safer at a "soccer" game nowadays. its a family game, bring a jester hat, eat a hotdog and boo your own team for not entertaining.

That's true Sammi. And it's always been hard to fight and cry at the same time.

SammiValentine

08-11-2011, 05:42 PM

robertlouis

08-11-2011, 05:45 PM

There are certainly estates in the cities where the police tacitly accept that the rule of law doesn't normally apply and gangs hold the power - pretty much the Harry Brown scenario.

maaarc

08-11-2011, 05:53 PM

As I said before, you people in your country can live by whatever law you deem fit. If that means no one is allowed guns then more power to ya, it's your country.

I never said that our country is totally safe with all the gun ownership. The same exact thugs that rioted in your country also live in our cities. They cause similar mayhem as your thugs. The thing that bothers me is that when reading topics on web forums, people in the UK are always criticizing the US for our ways, our laws. We are criticized for being harsh on certain peoples in our country while the people of the UK are so understanding and so helpful with their social programs that we in the barbaric US don't have. Yet somehow with all the social programs you people still got riots. The US is far from perfect,but it gets tiring to hear from European cheese eaters how much they hate the US and especially the rural redneck Americans. There are no riots in rural America. When there is a disaster like a tornado, hurricane or flood in rural America there is no looting.

And quite a few people in rural America are poor, like in West Virginia, yet I have never read or heard about any riots in these parts of the US. If regular crime statistics were compared between poor people of West Virginia and poor people in Baltimore City, you'd see a wide difference of statistics between the two areas. So saying poverty or right wing policies are to blame is nonsense.

One day, soon I hope, people will wake up and see that these are just thugs, nothing else, just thugs.

As far as feeling safe, I feel a lot safer going to an American football game than i would to an English football game.

I agree with everything you wrote with the exception of the cheese eaters:) while it can sometimes be annoying - even dumbfounding to listen to their ubiquitous voicing of their opinions concerning the state of affairs in the states, I see them as analogous to back seat drivers. they have some legitimate concerns about how the US is driving the car and where the car is ultimately headed. in some instances their criticisms have real merit - in others you just gotta treat it like the fear and or resentment induced white noise that comes along with being the driver.

robertlouis

08-11-2011, 05:55 PM

As I said before, you people in your country can live by whatever law you deem fit. If that means no one is allowed guns then more power to ya, it's your country.

I never said that our country is totally safe with all the gun ownership. The same exact thugs that rioted in your country also live in our cities. They cause similar mayhem as your thugs. The thing that bothers me is that when reading topics on web forums, people in the UK are always criticizing the US for our ways, our laws. We are criticized for being harsh on certain peoples in our country while the people of the UK are so understanding and so helpful with their social programs that we in the barbaric US don't have. Yet somehow with all the social programs you people still got riots. The US is far from perfect,but it gets tiring to hear from European cheese eaters how much they hate the US and especially the rural redneck Americans. There are no riots in rural America. When there is a disaster like a tornado, hurricane or flood in rural America there is no looting.

And quite a few people in rural America are poor, like in West Virginia, yet I have never read or heard about any riots in these parts of the US. If regular crime statistics were compared between poor people of West Virginia and poor people in Baltimore City, you'd see a wide difference of statistics between the two areas. So saying poverty or right wing policies are to blame is nonsense.

One day, soon I hope, people will wake up and see that these are just thugs, nothing else, just thugs.

As far as feeling safe, I feel a lot safer going to an American football game than i would to an English football game.

I agree with most of what you say, Yvonne, although I do think that any comparison involving the rural poor is misleading. What we've experienced here in the UK is essentially an urban phenomenon, albeit with a few copy-cat events in smaller cities and some towns. Crime in the countryside in the UK is just a blip in comparison with city statistics.

I also disagree with you to an extent regarding the impact of government policy on these events. Yes, there's no doubt that the upfront motivation is all about bling and grabbing what you can for nothing, but it's also very true to say that these people are part of a largely ignored underclass where unemployment has been the norm for generations and normal social rules and morality simply don't apply.

And if you'll accept the comparison, isn't that exactly the case at the top end of society too? Where the top "earners" can pull in 250 x what the guys at the bottom struggle for? And where the bankers simply tell the rest of us to fuck off while they play to their own rules and we all suffer.

maaarc

08-11-2011, 06:04 PM

Stavros

08-11-2011, 06:20 PM

My first assumption, that most of the rioters and looters were from the dysfunctional underclass, gangs, borderline mad, broken homes and so on I think was more than 50% true -but after that first night in Tottenham, the looters took on a diverse character and it now seems they were a mixture of opportunists stealing in the absence of the police; and gangs stealing with fences arranged in advance. A known criminal was shown on video in the Telegraph chatting with looters holding stolen goods; we now know some of these looters have jobs, come from families that have money and so on. It doesn't remove the long-term problems of youth unemployment, but it does make this whole carnival of theft a depressing summary of the extent of selfishness and greed that has infected 'sick Britain'.

Is someone in the FA so thick they can't switch Tottenham's home leg game against Everton to Liverpool this Saturday, and play the away game in London next time?

So far its been a bad year for the Police Service...

SammiValentine

08-11-2011, 06:29 PM

with liverpool at home the same day???? yea not quite that thick............;)

Nikka

08-11-2011, 06:36 PM

with the cars on fire it feels like a normal in south america :) hahaha (joking, well ..... not)

russtafa

08-11-2011, 06:50 PM

I think people in the U.K will be thinking that the police and the government need a real shake up and to get rid of these politically correct ideas that don't fuck'in work

Edwoodwoodwood

08-11-2011, 06:59 PM

You now what guys I believe we are all singing from the same hymn sheet here and albeit there are between all that have posted some very interesting suggestions and analagies we like most of the civilised western world are to blame for our own missguided doings.

Britain used to be known as Great Britain which is why some many people are keen to get here for whatever reason. Britain is no longer great in my opinion for a few simple reasons.

1) We don't hardly manufacture anything ourselves now, the biggest percentage of our consumer items come in from China, India and in general the Far East because on the face of it we can't compete on price against these countries. We are about to spend fortunes on new trains from Germany because they are 'cheaper' then close down our own manufacturing plant and puts hundreds out of work. Who pays for that the?

2) There are far too many people coming into our country every year that are not contributing to the economy either because they are illegal, don't work and if they do most of their money gets sent back 'home'.

3) Our welfare state to which we are very proud has been abused by all and sundry and way too much is handed out to anyone who asks without them ever having contributed a penny to it.

4) 13yrs or socialist rule with all the wasted money on quangos and everything borrowed on the never, never. Those cunts Tony Blair & Gordon Brown have a lot to answer for. Nice one Gordon for selling off all our gold reserves at giveaway prices.

5) This is a big one; The 'Entitlement culture' that so many people now seem to expect someone else to provide for them and give them eveything they want without doing a stroke for it. Our services industry in the UK is now so heavily manned by Eastern Europeans because there are so many lazy no good British citizens who don't want to do the work because it is beneath them, not enough money, not enough respect. Without all these migrant workers the UK would grind to a halt.

6) Europe, Those maggots in Brussels now tell me almost everything that I can do, not do or have to accept. I'm surprised I don't have to check that the colour of my underpants comply with all known rules. We have to chip in so much bloody money into the EU and on the face of it don't get hardly anything back.

7) Wars & overseas aid. WTF are we doing in Afghanistan / Iraq. If we had back all the money we have spent in the last 20 yrs on that we could have afforded to have left those shop doors open and told everyone to help themselves.

I've gotta stop now as sounding like a politician and winding myself up too much but you get my drift.

russtafa

08-11-2011, 07:22 PM

It's the same in Australia but we have lots of mineral wealth to save our bacon .if not we also would be in the poo

Edwoodwoodwood

08-11-2011, 08:28 PM

It's the same in Australia but we have lots of mineral wealth to save our bacon .if not we also would be in the poo

Can I come and join you mate as our place is pretty well fucked up her but at least you have plenty of space and better weather.

russtafa

08-11-2011, 10:23 PM

Can I come and join you mate as our place is pretty well fucked up her but at least you have plenty of space and better weather.
you are welcome but we have a mad bitch of a prime minister that's running our country down the drain as quick as she can

Stavros

08-11-2011, 10:43 PM

with liverpool at home the same day???? yea not quite that thick...........

Some of the funniest jokes I have heard are Liverpool-v-Everton jokes, it would be a great advertisement for football, make it a festival of football fun for all the family....we need cheering up.

Dino Velvet

08-11-2011, 10:54 PM

Ben

08-11-2011, 11:02 PM

David Cameron and the Bullingdon night of the broken window:

http://blogs.ft.com/westminster/2010/04/exclusive-david-cameron-and-the-bullingdon-night-of-the-broken-window/#axzz1UkvTdPAS

Ben

08-11-2011, 11:04 PM

If the rioting was a surprise, people weren't looking:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/tottenham-riots-not-unexpected?CMP=twt_gu

arnie666

08-11-2011, 11:25 PM

You lot get the Police 'service' you deserve.The bosses were concerned about political correctness initially because of the 'ethnicity' of many of the rioters,that we saw before us .So we were told to hold hard and contain by command.In some cases we just didn't have the numbers either.One poor lady in tears watching her parade of shops burn down said to me that they won't cut police numbers now will they? I didn't have the heart to tell her the truth. Watching the subhuman scum burn ,loot and pillage before us. Lets face it we can end up in court just for doing our fuking jobs and giving some crusty a clump around the head. Who want's to risk their families,careers etc etc for a load of ungrateful cunts, who suddenly want us to get stuck in?

These subhumans know there are no real concequenses for their actions that they fear .At least now the results of years of handwringing and molly coddling them is plain to see for the British public as they are interviewed by the media. No longer will the guillable believe the lies of the politicians . It shows the reality of what we have to deal with day in day out.

arnie666

08-11-2011, 11:28 PM

If the rioting was a surprise, people weren't looking:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/tottenham-riots-not-unexpected?CMP=twt_gu

Another apologist eh! I could say a lot more about him but I won't or I will have the malcom x brigade moaning . Just look at the sorts of people the media has shown put through the courts today. Trainee teacher, social worker, students at uni. It is just people of all classes and races who know the police and legal system can do fuck all to them.In my view there was a mix bunch of mainly white social agitators stirring things up amongst the untermensch , just because of some of things one or two of those I lifted said to me ,who didn't really understand what they were talking about but someone said it to them .Thick as shit. And the usual lot we have been dealing with for especially about a decade or so, who just take opportunities when they arise as they know we can't do shit to them that means anything.

Edwoodwoodwood

08-11-2011, 11:33 PM

Can you guys share your soccer jokes with us? We wanna laugh too. We just don't understand the humor but we're willing to listen if you care to explain. I'll tell a few knock-knock jokes in return to show my gratitude.:cheers:

Borat Chair Joke - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfOVV7iUp10)

Dino, you may not understand a lot of our English humoir mate and its not something you can necessarily learn. One things for sure though Dino I almost wet myself when reading most of your posts so it does translate this way over the pond.

Dino Velvet

08-11-2011, 11:41 PM

Dino, you may not understand a lot of our English humoir mate and its not something you can necessarily learn. One things for sure though Dino I almost wet myself when reading most of your posts so it does translate this way over the pond.

Thanks. I know my audience. Water seeks its own level and HA is the only place that won't kick me out. I've been banned from more places than I can count even though I never fight with people and use very little profanity.

Edwoodwoodwood

08-11-2011, 11:55 PM

and use very little profanity.

My god dear boy, that almost makes you sound like your English!

Dino Velvet

08-12-2011, 12:00 AM

My god dear boy, that almost makes you sound like your English!

My English friends call people a cunt when they really like them. I think it's a real hono(u)r to be called that. It's like Cockney Knighthood.

killkenny

08-12-2011, 12:09 AM

My English friends call people a cunt when they really like them. I think it's a real hono(u)r to be called that. It's like Cockney Knighthood.

yh its wat sucks about our country truely a place where you gotta watch your what your friends do to you more than your enemies. so much backstabbing though people hate ya more for been a gobby guy like i am than a malicious one.

Dino Velvet

08-12-2011, 12:12 AM

yh its wat sucks about our country truely a place where you gotta watch your what your friends do to you more than your enemies. so much backstabbing though people hate ya more for been a gobby guy like i am than a malicious one.

I always find a way to get along even when I don't have a clue what was said.

Ben

08-12-2011, 01:52 AM

By Richard Edwards

12:01AM BST 22 Sep 2007

The Liberal Democrat leadership hopeful, Nick Clegg, admitted he served a community sentence when he was 16.

http://istyosty.com/b/?u=Oi8vaS50ZWxlZ3JhcGguY28udWsvbXVsdGltZWRpYS9hcmN oaXZlLzAwNjQ1L25ld3MtZ3JhcGhpY3MtMjAwNy1fNjQ1OTIxY S5qcGc%3D&b=0

The home affairs spokesman was punished for destroying part of Germany's most precious botanical collections in a "drunken prank".

He had to spend weeks digging gardens in a Munich suburb and faced being expelled from Westminster School. The incident occurred when Mr Clegg, now 40, was on an exchange trip in Munich.

He has also told how his classmates shamed him by mocking their German hosts with Nazi goose-stepping routines and Hitler salutes.

The Sheffield Hallam MP had claimed, when asked whether he had ever taken illegal drugs, that politicians had a right to a "past private life".

But at the party conference in Brighton this week, where he announced his leadership ambitions, Mr Clegg said the cactus prank was the "worst trouble" he got into.
He said he and a friend became drunk and found they had two boxes of matches, in a greenhouse full of exotic plants.
They began lighting various plants, watching their tiny hairs burst into flame. They ended up burning two greenhouses of cacti.
Mr Clegg said: "I think we all have blemishes in our past."

robertlouis

08-12-2011, 01:58 AM

you are welcome but we have a mad bitch of a prime minister that's running our country down the drain as quick as she can

We had one of those just over 20 years ago.....

Ben

08-12-2011, 02:14 AM

We had one of those just over 20 years ago.....

I think Margaret Thatcher actually believed that so-called free market capitalism could bring about a utopian society. (Well, there aren't any "free markets." A free market means: no minimum wage laws, no child labor laws etc. etc.
But so-called corporate capitalism needs a big State. Just in case they need to be bailed out... :)) Anyway, she was an intellectual committed to the ideas of Friedrich Hayek....

Margaret Thatcher: The Crusade of Popular Capitalism - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMSGW0otfrs)

robertlouis

08-12-2011, 02:24 AM

I think Margaret Thatcher actually believed that so-called free market capitalism could bring about a utopian society. (Well, there aren't any "free markets." A free market means: no minimum wage laws, no child labor laws etc. etc.
But so-called corporate capitalism needs a big State. Just in case they need to be bailed out... :)) Anyway, she was an intellectual committed to the ideas of Friedrich Hayek....

And in doing so led the most socially divisive government in this country's history since Charles I provoked civil war.

Thatcherism's contribution to the last week's events in terms of the creation of attitudes is all too obvious - the creed of me first and fuck you, greed is good, destruction of industries and communities with nothing structural to compensate, and the accelerated growth of a burgeoning underclass estranged from the rest of society and society's moral principles and standards.

We hear plenty about "misguided mollycoddling" ( (c) The Daily Mail), but hardly anything about the right's huge contribution to the varied factors that have led to this week's disgraceful events.

robertlouis

08-12-2011, 02:26 AM

Can you guys share your soccer jokes with us? We wanna laugh too. We just don't understand the humor but we're willing to listen if you care to explain. I'll tell a few knock-knock jokes in return to show my gratitude.:cheers:

So why are Fulham fans complaining about their £1M statue of Michael Jackson when Chelsea paid £50M for theirs?

You're on your own, Dino.....

Ben

08-12-2011, 02:34 AM

And in doing so led the most socially divisive government in this country's history since Charles I provoked civil war.

Thatcherism's contribution to the last week's events in terms of the creation of attitudes is all too obvious - the creed of me first and fuck you, greed is good, destruction of industries and communities with nothing structural to compensate, and the accelerated growth of a burgeoning underclass estranged from the rest of society and society's moral principles and standards.

We hear plenty about "misguided mollycoddling" ( (c) The Daily Mail), but hardly anything about the right's huge contribution to the varied factors that have led to this week's disgraceful events.

As Noam Chomsky has pointed out: we're taught from childhood and through school and TV etc. etc. that you should only care about yourself. No one else matters.
You know: gain wealth forget all but self. And it actually goes against fundamental human attributes which are: sympathy and concern for others.
But the culture -- be it England or America -- is intent on driving that out of us. Ya know, no one else matters. That philosophy has brought about a cultural malaise.

NOAM CHOMSKY: Gain wealth, forget all but self (THE CORPORATION) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJrEQtQDmXQ)

Ben

08-12-2011, 02:39 AM

Selfishness is part and parcel of corporate culture... which has become the culture. We adopt, as it were, corporate values. Not human values. Like sympathy for others. But corporate values like, well, the new i pad -- :)

Externalities - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqkkEGY4jbQ)

Dino Velvet

08-12-2011, 02:50 AM

So why are Fulham fans complaining about their £1M statue of Michael Jackson when Chelsea paid £50M for theirs?

You're on your own, Dino.....

Let me try...

Ummmmm...

OK... Remember, I'm not British, OK?

Here goes...

So why are Fulham fans complaining about their £1M statue of Michael Jackson when Chelsea paid £50M for theirs?

Since the death of Michael Jackson, Chelsea began a marketing campaign that this statue is "Just like shagging the real thing!".

robertlouis

08-12-2011, 03:12 AM

Let me try...

Ummmmm...

OK... Remember, I'm not British, OK?

Here goes...

So why are Fulham fans complaining about their £1M statue of Michael Jackson when Chelsea paid £50M for theirs?

Since the death of Michael Jackson, Chelsea began a marketing campaign that this statue is "Just like shagging the real thing!".

Good try, here's the real story.

Just before the Fulham chairman unveiled his statue of Michael Jackson, Chelsea paid Liverpool £50M for their Spanish striker Fernando Torres, who took something like 15 matches to score his first goal for them.

Dino Velvet

08-12-2011, 03:24 AM

Good try, here's the real story.

Just before the Fulham chairman unveiled his statue of Michael Jackson, Chelsea paid Liverpool £50M for their Spanish striker Fernando Torres, who took something like 15 matches to score his first goal for them.

Fernando Torres IS a statue, right?

Necrophilia jokes are all the rage with the young hipsters these days though.

robertlouis

08-12-2011, 03:26 AM

Fernando Torres IS a statue, right?

Necrophilia jokes are all the rage with the young hipsters these days though.

Not quite, but he could be Angelina's cousin......

Dino Velvet

08-12-2011, 03:31 AM

Not quite, but he could be Angelina's cousin......

That doesn't help at all. I thought I figured out my first soccer joke. Our countries are similar but so different. Still love you guys over there.:cheers:

robertlouis

08-12-2011, 03:42 AM

Oh no, now it's spread to Scotland!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW0356brnrE

russtafa

08-12-2011, 03:43 AM

hey Dino here's one years ago i used to live very close to a morgue and there was a little message spray painted on a wall." i was once into necrophilia but the rotten cunt split on me"

Dino Velvet

08-12-2011, 03:46 AM

hey Dino here's one years ago i used to live very close to a morgue and there was a little message spray painted on a wall." i was once into necrophilia but the rotten cunt split on me"

Russ' Aussie humor translates well in America. Russ is the salt of the fucking Earth.:cheers:

Stavros

08-12-2011, 04:08 AM

For Dino, but way way off the thread

A Burglary Was Recently Committed at Everton’s Ground and The Entire Contents of the Trophy Room Were Stolen. The Police are Looking for a Man With a Blue Carpet

Two Everton fans observed in a parking lot trying to unlock the door of a Mercedes with a coat hanger.
One Everton fan said: “I can’t seem to get this door unlocked!”
The other fan said: “Well, you’d better hurry up and try harder, its starting to rain and the top is down!”

Newsflash: Thieves broke into the home of a Liverpool fan and stole two books. "The thing that upsets me", he said "is that I hadn't finished colouring them in yet!"

Dino Velvet

08-12-2011, 04:10 AM

robertlouis

08-12-2011, 04:15 AM

mikelpo

08-13-2011, 02:56 AM

]

you could not be safer at a "soccer" game nowadays. its a family game, bring a jester hat, eat a hotdog and boo your own team for not entertaining.

I would love to take you to see the redmen sammi hopefully the king will do us proud this season

russtafa

08-13-2011, 03:17 AM

english football is a cross between a rock concert and a sporting event

mikelpo

08-13-2011, 03:23 AM

The prems the best league in the world hands down. Can't fucking wait for tomorrow!

russtafa

08-13-2011, 03:45 AM

my brother was part of the inner city firm or something like that

robertlouis

08-13-2011, 05:29 AM

my brother was part of the inner city firm or something like that

Probably the Inter-City Firm, Russ. West Ham fans who used to pre-arrange fights with fans of rival clubs in the 70s. So-called because they used the Inter-City rail network to get to the games.

These days violence at or around a football match is very rare - whether there will be an upsurge following the riots remains to be seen. Personally I doubt it.