Australia should pull out of Afghanistan

[russtafa]

i think that we should pull out of this miserable shit hole but if another september 11 can be traced back to the crap hole what's to be done

[Ben]

Well, Australia should've never went in. It isn't their war. It has nothing to do with Australia. I mean, if Afghanistan (meaning the government of Afghanistan) ordered an attack on Australia then Australia has every right to defend herself. So, it seems pointless for Australia to have gone in. I mean, Australian troops should be IN AUSTRALIA protecting Australia. I mean, why are Australian troops in Afghanistan protecting Afghans? Again, Australian troops SHOULD BE IN AUSTRALIA protecting the people of Australia.


Republican Ron Paul is very good on this front:
‪This War Is Illegal! Ron Paul Afghanistan War Debate‬‏ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyiOGVLfy7w)

Is the US Ready to Talk the Taliban?

By GARETH PORTER
The Taliban leadership is ready to negotiate peace with the United States right now if Washington indicates its willingness to provide a timetable for complete withdrawal, according to a former Afghan prime minister who set up a secret meeting between a senior Taliban official and a U.S. general two years ago.
They also have no problem with meeting the oft-repeated U.S. demand that the Taliban cut ties completely with Al-Qaeda.
Ahmad Shah Ahmadzai, who was acting prime minister of Afghanistan in 1995-96, told IPS in an interview that a group of Taliban officials conveyed the organisation's position on starting peace negotiations to him in a meeting in Kabul a few days ago.
"They said once the Americans say 'we are ready to withdraw', they will sit with them," said Ahmadzai.
The former prime minister said Taliban officials made it clear that they were not insisting on any specific date for final withdrawal. "The timetable is up to the Americans," he said.
Ahmadzai contradicted a favourite theme of media coverage of the issue of peace negotiations on the war - that Mullah Mohammed Omar, head of the Taliban leadership council, has not been on board with contacts by Taliban officials with the administration of Afghan President Hamid Karzai and the U.S.
He confirmed that Mullah Baradar, then second in command to Mullah Omar, had indeed had high-level contacts with officials in the Karzai government in 2009, as claimed by Karzai aides, before being detained by Pakistani intelligence in early 2010.
And contrary to speculation that Baradar's relationship with Mullah Omar had been terminated either by those contacts or by his detention, Ahmadzai said, "Baradar is still the top man," and "Mullah Omar's position on him hasn't changed."
Ahmadzai, who studied engineering at Colorado State University before joining the U.S.-sponsored mujahideen fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan, maintains close ties with Quetta Shura officials but has also enjoyed personal contacts with the U.S. military. He brokered a meeting between a senior Taliban leader and Brig. Gen. Edward M. Reeder, then commander of the Combined Special Forces Special Operations Army Component Command in Kabul in summer 2009.
The former prime minister's account of that meeting in the interview with IPS further documents the Taliban leadership's interest in entering into peace negotiations with the United States prior to the Barack Obama administration's decision to escalate U.S. military involvement sharply in 2009.
A senior Taliban leader told Reeder at the meeting that the insurgents had no problem with severing their ties to Al-Qaeda, but could not agree to U.S. demands for access to military bases.
Ahmadzai said he negotiated the meeting with the Taliban leadership in the spring of 2009, at the request of Reeder, who had just arrived in Kabul a few weeks earlier. The process took four months, he recalled, because the Taliban leadership had so many questions that had to be addressed.
The main question, of course, was what arrangements would be made for the Taliban representative's safety. In the end, the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) command facilitated the Taliban representative's travel into Kabul, Ahmadzai recalled.
The Taliban official who met with Reeder and Ahmadzai in Kabul was a member of the Taliban Quetta Shura (leadership council) who called himself Mullah Min Mohammed for security reasons, according to Ahmadzai.
The Quetta Shura representative complained to Reeder about the failure of the United States to follow up on a previous contact with a senior Taliban representative, according to Ahmadzai's account.
"Mullah Mohammed" recalled to Reeder that the Taliban had met two years earlier in southern Kandahar province with an unnamed U.S. official who had made two demands as the price for U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan: an end to the Taliban's relations with Al-Qaeda and U.S. long-term access to three airbases in the country.
"We agreed to one but not to the other," the senior Taliban official was quoted by Ahmadzai as saying.
The Taliban leader explained that it had no trouble with the demand for cutting ties with Al-Qaeda, but that it would not agree to the U.S. retaining any military bases in Afghanistan – "not one metre", according to Ahmadzai's account.
The Quetta Shura representative then reproached the U.S. for having failed to make any response to the Taliban offer to cut the organisation's ties with Al-Qaeda.
"You haven't responded to us," he is said to have told Reeder. "You never told us yes or no."
The Taliban complaint suggested that the Quetta Shura leadership had been prepared to move into more substantive talks if the U.S. had indicated its interest in doing so.
Reeder, who has been commander of the U.S. Army Special Forces Command at Fort Bragg since July 2010, did not respond to an e-mail from IPS to the command's Public Affairs Office for comment on Ahmadzai's account of the meeting.
After the announcement of the major increase in troop deployment in Afghanistan, the Obama administration adopted a public posture that suggested the Taliban leadership had no reason to negotiate unless put under severe military pressure.
In light of the contacts between senior Taliban leaders and U.S. officials in 2007 and 2009, the Taliban clearly concluded that the United States would not negotiate with the Taliban except on the basis of accepting U.S. permanent military presence in Afghanistan.
After the 2009 meeting between Reeder and the Taliban leader, a number of reports indicated the Taliban leadership was not interested in negotiations with Washington.
Despite the apparent policy shift against seeking peace talks, the Taliban continued to signal to Washington that it was willing to exclude any presence for Al-Qaeda or other groups that might target the United States from Afghan territory.
Mullah Omar suggested that willingness in an unusual statement on the occasion of the Islamic holiday Eid in September 2009.
Then in early December, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan – the official title adopted by the Quetta Shura leadership for its political-military organisation – said in a statement posted on its website and circulated to Western news agencies that it was prepared to offer "legal guarantees" against any aggressive actions against other countries from its soil as part of a settlement with the United States.
Gareth Porter is an investigative historian and journalist with Inter-Press Service specialising in U.S. national security policy.

[russtafa]

helping the crappy USA that's why

[robertlouis]

Has Australia had troops in Afghanistan since 2001?

I'm just thinking about the Bali bombs in 2005, which whether by accident or design seemed to result in a disproportionate number of Australian victims among the dead, and wondering if the motivation for the attacks could have been Australian involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq.

[hippifried]

Yeah, go ahead & pull y'all's soldiers out. Both of them.

[russtafa]

my god then America's fucked .who's going to do all the work for you,oh yeah you still have the Brit's

[Stavros]

Is the US Ready to Talk the Taliban?

Its been going on for some time. The Afghan govt and NATO representatives realised some time ago that the 'Taliban' is no longer a single 'unified' movement under Mullah Omar. There are elements of the group who want to stop fighting and live what counts for a 'normal' life in Afghanistan. Attempts have been made to hive off the 'moderates' in order to bring them into government and further split the movement but also provide evidence for people in difficult areas that there is an alternative to violence. The problem is that the Afghan govt itself is seen as so useless and corrupt across the country, it would only make sense if the Taliban softies actually produced more effective govt -which means functioning schools, markets, medical clinics, above all safety in local and often remote areas. In addition to the corruption and inefficiency of Karzai's govt, there are elements of the Taliban who are in it for the money and local power, a replay of the internecine warfare that has been going on since 1974. Into that mix you have the interference in Afghanistan of 1) Pakistan, whose military elites are addicted to American $$$ and maintain a state of tension while claiming to be part of the 'solution'; 2) Iran, who took in around a million refugees in 2002-2002 and which claims to be supporting the Hazara who are Shi's Muslims discriminated against; and India which is Afghanistan's largest trader, and perceived by Pakistan to be 'in it to win it' at Pakistan's expense.

Thus, you have the problem that nothing NATO can do will solve these political problems. Or, some deal will be done which will allow NATO to claim that they have laid the foundations for a functioning state, that they are 'handing over' security to the Police and the Army, and find a graceful way to withdraw troops, at least in volume, leaving behind 'security advisers'.

There are alternatives: Once Pakistan accepts that it is a small country in a region of big hitters (India, China and Russia), and re-focuses its efforts on governance in its own country a substantial part of the violence will end. Because of its own history, there will always be powerful regional barons in Afghanistan, government will always be the result of the centre negotiating its way through local powers; there will be revenge attacks, and petty violence, which is not nice but its Afghanistan not Connecticut or Sussex. There is actually more money to be made trading with India and developing Afghanistan's modest gas resources, than there is in Heroin and Bombs. The incentives have to change; currently Pakistan is the weakest link. If something can be done to defuse the situation in Kashmir, and if Pakistan's crooked elite are challenged, then maybe there will the semblance of peace in the region -military action by NATO and Australia cannot achieve any of this, its down to the dreary business of talks, talks, and yet more talks -but with real political incentives. And at the heart of that is good governance, something Afghanistan has not had since...

[Prospero]

There are things in this world called allies - and the US, UK and Australia have long been considered allies of each other. That applies i think whatever the rights or wrongs of our sustained presence in Afghanistan. Or do you think that fact that Australia is miles from the Middle east makes it somehow immune from the currents of global politics?

[russtafa]

There are things in this world called allies - and the US, UK and Australia have long been considered allies of each other. That applies i think whatever the rights or wrongs of our sustained presence in Afghanistan. Or do you think that fact that Australia is miles from the Middle east makes it somehow immune from the currents of global politics?
wish we were not part of this mess but we believe in the same rubbish as the other leaders of the alliance

[Miss Aeryn]

All the way with LBJ

[Stavros]

With the greatest of respect, Russtafa, I don't think it will make much difference to Afghanistan if Australian troops go home; you will at least save lives and money; and there are other ways of tackling extemist politics, whether or not its threat to Australia is at home or targeted at Australians abroad.

[russtafa]

there was very large training camps in Afghanistan before this military action and your government ask's my government to send troops.most people here hate hearing about the filthy place or taking their dirty refugees

[Prospero]

All the way with LBJ

Well thankfully that was one mess we were NOT in - unlike your guys. The world is a mess.

[Ben]

there was very large training camps in Afghanistan before this military action and your government ask's my government to send troops.most people here hate hearing about the filthy place or taking their dirty refugees

Over 6,000 American brave men and women have lost their lives in Afghanistan and Iraq.
The economic cost of the war for U.S. taxpayers will run to over $3 trillion.
Is it worth it?
One simply does a simple cost-benefit analysis. I mean, the costs are to the brave soldiers... and their families (who pay a huge price) and the taxpayers.
And the benefits go to who or whom? Well, Dick Cheney's old company. And defense companies. And oil companies.
It's the same with Australia. Who pays the costs? Simple. Soldiers and their families. And taxpayers. Like you.
And, again, who benefits.
American journalist Robert Young Pelton said that you go to war to make money. Again, the benefits go to a small number of highly paid executives in oil companies, defense companies etc. etc.
The British economist Adam Smith said that merchants and manufacturers (today: corporations) are going to pursue their own interests (namely profits) regardless of the grievous impact on others. We are certainly bearing witness to this. Sadly.

[russtafa]

when our troops come home in caskets we have muslim and extreme left wing protesters screaming abuse at the families of these soldiers .it's disgusting

[trish]

there was very large training camps in Afghanistan before this military action and your government ask's my government to send troops.most people here hate hearing about the filthy place or taking their dirty refugees
Perhaps you could just take their clean ones.

[russtafa]

should of cleaned the place with naipon

[trish]

So how are we to credit anything you say, russtafa, when you make such declarations? Surely you're a better person than you let on.

[russtafa]

why flush our people down the drain for politics Trish

[russtafa]

Our governments think its ok to waste the lives of these men and woman for what?

[trish]

Those are quite different sentiments than "should of cleaned the place with naipon." If hatred is the reason you use to end a war, it can just as easily be used to start one. I happen to agree that the Afghan war is a waste of lives and money. Australia would do well to step out it. But why assume Afghans are all filthy, why refuse to help the immigrants from a war that you helped start and why for God's sake napalm them all???

[russtafa]

THESE PEOPLE ARE SCUM WE DON'T NEED IN aUSTRALIA

[Dino Velvet]

THESE PEOPLE ARE SCUM WE DON'T NEED IN aUSTRALIA

I just remember I haven't seen Romper Stomper for almost 2 weeks. Thanks Russ.:cheers:
‪Skinhead! - Romper Stomper‬‏ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFruWxzcYpo)


http://www.moviegoods.com/Assets/product_images/1020/185157.1020.A.jpg

[russtafa]

the guy used to drink at a pub i went to when i was a younger

[Dino Velvet]

the guy used to drink at a pub i went to when i was a younger

I've jerked off to the epileptic chick a few times. She has a full seizure in my fantasy.:fuckin:

[Silcc69]

2 can play that game Dino

‪MARKET SCENE EDWARD NORTON‬‏ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGEpgP4cjUc)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51CHHZDW9DL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[Stavros]

russtafa -there is no doubt that Afghanistan was being used by some Jihadis to train them in suicide missions; but it was happening in Pakistan as well; just as years ago members of the Provisional IRA used to get training in Lebanon, as did many other 'guerrillas'. Australia also has its 'special forces' who presumably train in a wilderness near you, so location is a slippery issue -there were elements of the Taliban and a lot of Afghans in 2001 who were fed up with the 'Mujahideen' -locally referred to as Arabi and loathed because they were had more money to play with guns and pretend to be heroes than most local people had, and treated them like peasants -at some point these camps and the Arabi would have been thrown out, but it was pre-empted by the Anglo-American bombing raids in late 2001/early 2002 after which Tony Blair crowed about how successful drastic military action had been. The core issue anyway is the belief by a fringe element of Muslims that Jihad is violence against the Kaffir, there are nutters all over the world who think killing is an achievement (some of them in government), Australia has, relatively speaking, been spared the worst of it; blind prejudice against Muslims in Australia, most of whom want to live a quiet life and not blow themselves up in pizza parlours or bars, is more likely to create a Jihadist, on that basis cooperation rather than confrontation is likely to be more successful.

[russtafa]

we have our share of mussie dickheads in Auss

[Yvonne183]

With the greatest of respect, Russtafa, I don't think it will make much difference to Afghanistan if Australian troops go home; you will at least save lives and money; and there are other ways of tackling extemist politics, whether or not its threat to Australia is at home or targeted at Australians abroad.

Yea, there are other ways of tackling extremist politics,, just bomb them from the air like the UK and France are doing to Libya. Hypocrites.

[Stavros]

Hmmm, Yvonne -the point I was trying to make, without writing an essay on it, is that it is possible to prevent extremism from taking root in the first place -setting an alternative agenda, rather than allowing extremists to set it -because when you are dealing with people whose primary discourse is in violence, it is tempting to use violence against them: but that is to descend to their level, and as we have seen for centuries, it doesn't work. We were told in 2002 that Afghanistan was a success -Tony Blair crowed about it in the House of Commons: the Taliban were out of government, al-Qaeda on the run, and so on. Here we are, 10 years later, fighting the same war. People have options, but if those options shrink and violence is encouraged it can have devastating conseqences, Somalia being an obvious one. It is not an easy option and takes time, but if people, particularly young people, are given a stake in their society, a feeling of belonging and necessity, asking them to smash it up will not appeal. What, after all, have riots in Watts or Detroit or Chicago achieved? Nothing really, after the smoke cleared, people had to find ways to live from one day to the next. Be positive, because there are positive solutions to every situation.

[russtafa]

Afghanistan has been at war with themselves or others for at least a thousand years and you want to drop social workers on them

[Yvonne183]

Hmmm, Yvonne -the point I was trying to make, without writing an essay on it, is that it is possible to prevent extremism from taking root in the first place -setting an alternative agenda, rather than allowing extremists to set it -because when you are dealing with people whose primary discourse is in violence, it is tempting to use violence against them: but that is to descend to their level, and as we have seen for centuries, it doesn't work. We were told in 2002 that Afghanistan was a success -Tony Blair crowed about it in the House of Commons: the Taliban were out of government, al-Qaeda on the run, and so on. Here we are, 10 years later, fighting the same war. People have options, but if those options shrink and violence is encouraged it can have devastating conseqences, Somalia being an obvious one. It is not an easy option and takes time, but if people, particularly young people, are given a stake in their society, a feeling of belonging and necessity, asking them to smash it up will not appeal. What, after all, have riots in Watts or Detroit or Chicago achieved? Nothing really, after the smoke cleared, people had to find ways to live from one day to the next. Be positive, because there are positive solutions to every situation.

I agree,, there should be ways to deal with trouble spots before they get too much out of control. My point is why didn't the UK and France find this other way in Libya instead of dropping bombs on them. It's just that the US is criticized for the wars in Afghan and Iraq and not soon after the UK and France bomb Libya without much protest. The US is called a bully for using strong arm tactics yet Libya gets bombed without much of a complaint. I just feel that France and the UK, jumped to fast into bombing Libya without first trying to send in social workers as Rus has said.

[Gambino]

I read through most of this, skipped the big paragraphs which will probably make the same sort of point I go with, at least we (uk, us & Aus) are trying to do something, it's like anything involving Africa, the place is a dogs breakfast, but at least people are trying to do something to help the people, may not be doing it in a way that some of you agree with, but as a soldier, you may not agree with your governments motives, but you do your job for your brothers in arms and your family at home.

[Stavros]

I agree,, there should be ways to deal with trouble spots before they get too much out of control. My point is why didn't the UK and France find this other way in Libya instead of dropping bombs on them. It's just that the US is criticized for the wars in Afghan and Iraq and not soon after the UK and France bomb Libya without much protest. The US is called a bully for using strong arm tactics yet Libya gets bombed without much of a complaint. I just feel that France and the UK, jumped to fast into bombing Libya without first trying to send in social workers as Rus has said.

I think the UK and France were acting on advice from unreliable sources (as usual) which suggested that 'one big push' and the Qadhafi regime would fall as quickly as the regimes in Tunisia and Egypt. There has always been a rift between Benghazi and Tripoli, so it was relatively easy for them to break away, and receive recognition and support from outside, but not easy at all to extend their revolution to the west, where smaller groups are fighting the regime without any unity. So we are now in a situation where neither side can gain effective control of the state as a whole, while Qadhafi and his sons think they can maintain the pressure on known areas of trouble without losing overall power; they have plenty of money salted away in bank accounts in Northern Cyprus and who knows where else.

In the case of Afghanistan, I think there are many people completely exhausted from 40 years of civil war, Jihadi or any kind of violence doesn't work. On balance its the problem that 10 men can make 10,000 tremble -and as long as foreign troops are there on the ground, they will divide opinion. Its not about 'social workers', its about reasonable people having the courage to engage with the general public and the public agreeing to stop supporting violence. Corrupt and inefficient govt doesn't help either.

[Ben]

Well, we'll pull out pretty soon. And, too, what have we accomplished? When we leave the Taliban will go back to running the place. Bin Laden fled. We didn't get him in Afghanistan.
There are, according to the CIA, only 50 Al Qaeda there.
And, too, how many Afghan civilians have died?????????
Or we could stay until, say, 2024 -- ha ha! :) ;)

Afghanistan tragedy - is never-ending war to blame? - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAARgw4iCC0&list=UUY8x1K2FMBw-jm-WCPbcHEg&index=11&feature=plcp)

[Ben]

Afghanistan and American imperialism:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/mar/19/afghanistan-american-imperialism-glenn-greenwald?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

[russtafa]

the poor man has done three tours of duty and has reportedly suffered head injuries and now the government want to sacrifice the poor man to appease these barbarians,it's fucking disgusting

[russtafa]

i pity any man that has to watch these greasy ragheads scratching their bums and wanting murder anything non muslim

[Prospero]

So killing unarmed women and children in their beds is okay in your book, is it Russtafa?

[russtafa]

So killing unarmed women and children in their beds is okay in your book, is it Russtafa?you cockhead you coward you would not even go there yah pussy and you demand this man's life how dear you you slithering worm you want to hand this poor man over to these slavering barbarians what the fuck are you?::angry:angry:angry:angry

[Prospero]

So from your response it is clear you DO approve of the murder of women and children. Bravo. What an admirable character you are brave Russtafa - safe in your chair in Australia miles from the action where the only people of colour you meet are the "abos" who you think off as shit and Muslims who you like to see murdered.

For your info I HAVE been there- in Helmand - as you'd know if you read any of my earlier posts. As an observer and film maker. I met the US and British soldiers who have to face the horror of being there. It's tough shit. That is clear. But that does not justify murder unless, like you, you have Nazi sensibilities or like this guy you crack under the pressure.

Did I demand this man's life? Where did i post that, you totally ill-educated fool. I would guess you quite like the fact that some arabs and jews were slaughtered in france too in the past few days. C'mon now - admit it. Anyone who is not white is sub human to you - clearly.

[russtafa]

So from your response it is clear you DO approve of the murder of women and children. Bravo. What an admirable character you are brave Russtafa - safe in your chair in Australia miles from the action where the only people of colour you meet are the "abos" who you think off as shit and Muslims who you like to see murdered.

For your info I HAVE been there- in Helmand - as you'd know if you read any of my earlier posts. As an observer and film maker. I met the US and British soldiers who have to face the horror of being there. It's tough shit. That is clear. But that does not justify murder unless, like you, you have Nazi sensibilities or like this guy you crack under the pressure.

Did I demand this man's life? Where did i post that, you totally ill-educated fool. I would guess you quite like the fact that some arabs and jews were slaughtered in france too in the past few days. C'mon now - admit it. Anyone who is not white is sub human to you - clearly.i would love to put you in his position you sniverling worm and see how you react you crawl into back up your ass where you come from yah gutless wonder expecting other men do what you could never do yah oxygen thief

[Prospero]

Russ - there are thousands of brave men and women out there in his position who did not go on the rampage like he did.

Please stop your endless insults. It demeans you. Not me.

[russtafa]

you demean these men and women ! twenty muslim lives is not worth one of ours you idiot ,three thousand of their lives is not worth one of ours

[russtafa]

you really are pathetic ,i would never trust you as far as i could throw you if you were serving with me you would sell me or any one else out in a heart beat

[Prospero]

you demean these men and women ! twenty muslim lives is not worth one of ours you idiot ,three thousand of their lives is not worth one of ours

Regarding your capacity for hate, i rest my case.

[Faldur]

you demean these men and women ! twenty muslim lives is not worth one of ours you idiot ,three thousand of their lives is not worth one of ours

Dude you need to get some help, really.

[russtafa]

you people want to turn over this poor individual to these cut throats for the sake of politics and i find it disgusting they would murder the poor man in a heartbeat

[russtafa]

Dude you need to get some help, really.
you need to get some help if you think handing this poor man who has served four tours of duty over to these murdering savages is the right thing to :screwydo?:screwy:screwy

[russtafa]

:fu::fu:you pommies would sell out your country or service men as quick as you could.has pommie land got sharia law yet?gutless wonders

[Stavros]

Mr. Bales’s wife, Karilyn, released a statement to The Associated Press on Monday in which she called the March 11 massacre in Afghanistan “a terrible and heartbreaking tragedy.”
“We extend our condolences to all the people of the Panjwai District, our hearts go out to all of them, especially to the parents, brothers, sisters and grandparents of the children who perished,” she said in the statement.

Someone with decency giving voice to lives troubled, lives destroyed.



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/20/us/bales-accused-of-fraud-as-stockbroker.html

[russtafa]

Mr. Bales’s wife, Karilyn, released a statement to The Associated Press on Monday in which she called the March 11 massacre in Afghanistan “a terrible and heartbreaking tragedy.”
“We extend our condolences to all the people of the Panjwai District, our hearts go out to all of them, especially to the parents, brothers, sisters and grandparents of the children who perished,” she said in the statement.

Someone with decency giving voice to lives troubled, lives destroyed.



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/20/us/bales-accused-of-fraud-as-stockbroker.html
nothing like smearing the man before hanging him .before i was sent there i would inform anyone wanting to know that i would kill any muslim i saw:dancing::dancing::dancing::dancing::dancing::d ancing::dancing::dancing:

[Prospero]

Russ - Faldur is an American.

[russtafa]

Russ - Faldur is an American.should have been one of your lot .when do you know a plane load of poms has landed at Sydney airport? when they turnoff the engines the whining still continues

[Ben]

Discussing the motives of the Afghan shooter:

http://www.salon.com/2012/03/19/discussing_the_motives_of_the_afghan_shooter/singleton/

[russtafa]

fucking hell can't have it both ways

[Stavros]

nothing like smearing the man before hanging him .before i was sent there i would inform anyone wanting to know that i would kill any muslim i saw:dancing::dancing::dancing::dancing::dancing::d ancing::dancing::dancing:

Mr. Bales’s wife, Karilyn, released a statement to The Associated Press on Monday in which she called the March 11 massacre in Afghanistan “a terrible and heartbreaking tragedy.”
“We extend our condolences to all the people of the Panjwai District, our hearts go out to all of them, especially to the parents, brothers, sisters and grandparents of the children who perished,” she said in the statement.

The man's wife has more dignity in the face of death than you do; she lives with honour.

[Stavros]

The reluctance of ordinary men to kill can be overcome by intensified training, direct commands from officers, long-range weapons and propaganda that glorifies the soldier's cause and dehumanizes the enemy. "With the proper conditioning and the proper circumstances, it appears that almost anyone can and will kill," Grossman writes. Many soldiers who kill enemies in battle are initially exhilarated, Grossman says, but later they often feel profound revulsion and remorse, which may transmute into post-traumatic stress disorder and other ailments. Indeed, Grossman believes that the troubles experienced by many combat veterans are evidence of a "powerful, innate human resistance toward killing one's own species."

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=why-soldiers-get-a-kick-out-of-kill-2010-04-23

[russtafa]

god you are a wanker stavros they[our troops] should never been there in the first place the place should have been bug sprayed and forgotten about

[Faldur]

What I'm Looking For:

,i respect my self and others,i am a well dressed man who likes good music ,going out to dinner,thai and vietnamese, indian are my favorites.

Were you taking your meds when you wrote this?

[Stavros]

god you are a wanker stavros they[our troops] should never been there in the first place the place should have been bug sprayed and forgotten about

You always duck out of the core issues: I presented you with a quote of deep sympathy for the dead from the wife of the soldier accused of the killings, and you have made a point of ignoring it twice; I have pointed out that even among professional soldiers killing is not as easy as you think and has consequences you dare not think about; then you say Afghanistan should be 'sprayed' when it has been 'sprayed' by bullets since the fall of the monarchy in 1973, and to no great effect -in fact it has made a bad situation worse. So yes, I was also opposed to sending troops there, but once they have been committed, the expectation is that they will abide by the laws of war, and actually do what their NATO mission has sent them to do. Which is not killing the people they are supposed to be helping. Calling me a wanker may be your most articulate response, it adds nothing to the debate on Afghanistan, or Australia's role in the mission.

[russtafa]

1our troops should not be there if the first place 2 you cant help people that don't want to be helped their religion wont allow it of infidels3 our peoples lives are worth far too much to be risked helping these creatures as when they, the scum are trained as troops and then shoot our troops in the back 4my heart does go out to the families of our dead soldiers and the pain it does and in this country we have had instances of these filthy muslims contacting the the families and crowing about their deaths of the poor people.5 i think enough is enough and no muslim should be allowed to settle in our countries when all we get in return is terrorism and crime .one instance of a training camp should be enough to spray the lousy place and not think twice about it.oh pip pip old bean=pommie talk

[trish]

i think enough is enough and no muslim should be allowed to settle in our countries when all we get in return is terrorism and crime Your "thought" fails because the premise is false. We get quite a bit in return from our Muslim citizens. The majority are productive contributors to business, the economy, academia, science, culture and society. They are generally no better citizens nor worse citizens then those from any other societal sector. Perhaps HA should get rid of you, because as far anyone here can tell we get nothing from you but trolling, filth, hatred and calls for violence.

[russtafa]

Your "thought" fails because the premise is false. We get quite a bit in return from our Muslim citizens. The majority are productive contributors to business, the economy, academia, science, culture and society. They are generally no better citizens nor worse citizens then those from any other societal sector. Perhaps HA should get rid of you, because as far anyone here can tell we get nothing from you but trolling, filth, hatred and calls for violence.oh baby my cock go's hard when i think of you ,you sweet little possum .let's fuck honey i know you been dreaming of the russ's hard cock.you can tell me how evil i am as i enter your tight little hole=you will love it

[Ben]

Afghanistan massacre: Karzai says US 'not co-operating':

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17405200

[russtafa]

Afghanistan massacre: Karzai says US 'not co-operating':

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17405200
buy the bastards a goat or little boy and they will be happy

[russtafa]

Your "thought" fails because the premise is false. We get quite a bit in return from our Muslim citizens. The majority are productive contributors to business, the economy, academia, science, culture and society. They are generally no better citizens nor worse citizens then those from any other societal sector. Perhaps HA should get rid of you, because as far anyone here can tell we get nothing from you but trolling, filth, hatred and calls for violence.
i know you are brighter than this but some times i wonder if you have some abo blood because that's horse shit young lady.i would never fuck a gin

[irvin66]

I have a solution to the problem of Afghanistan, nuke them back to the Stone Age! :geek:

[Stavros]

Sounds like the Breivik solution to me, and not one that would suit anyone militarily or commercially: the Russians, the Iranians, the Chinese and the Indians have been signing contracts with the government in Kabul to extract Afghanistan's mineral wealth, runs its industries and invest in its future, while NATO fights what to me looks increasingly like a proxy war with Pakistan. Pakistan is as keen to get its hands on the minerals wealth as the others, but doesn't have the corporate clout of its competitors and for various additional reasons (Kashmir, competition with India) is trying to force its way onto the negotiating table via the Taliban. Whether or not the 'ordinary people' of Afghanistan will benefit remains to be seen, but unless you were indulging in some extravagant form of sarcasm Irwin, I think your proposal is daft -who is going to nuke it anyway? And the fall-out?

http://www.ufppc.org/us-a-world-news-mainmenu-35/10920-background-china-india-iran-a-russia-winning-afghan-mineral-contracts.html

[robertlouis]

I have a solution to the problem of Afghanistan, nuke them back to the Stone Age! :geek:

Thought more of you than that, tbh, Irvin.

They didn't invite us in. The Afghans have never invited invasion.

No matter when we do finally leave, the country and its people will be in a worse state than when we went in. Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, the alleged targets, were safely ensconced in Pakistan throughout, as allied intelligence knew only too well.

And it was America's bone-headed stance in the 1980's under Reagan's somnolent leadership that actively created and encouraged the Taliban.

Afghanistan is every bit as much the west's fuck-up as it is of their own making.

[Prospero]

Afghanistan has been fucked over not just by the West but, before that, by Russia.

[robertlouis]

Afghanistan has been fucked over not just by the West but, before that, by Russia.

And before that, by Britain, and before that, by Russia, and before that, by Britain.....

It's an old song with a sad refrain.

[Stavros]

Thought more of you than that, tbh, Irvin.

They didn't invite us in. The Afghans have never invited invasion.

No matter when we do finally leave, the country and its people will be in a worse state than when we went in. Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, the alleged targets, were safely ensconced in Pakistan throughout, as allied intelligence knew only too well.

And it was America's bone-headed stance in the 1980's under Reagan's somnolent leadership that actively created and encouraged the Taliban.

Afghanistan is every bit as much the west's fuck-up as it is of their own making.

I would amend your post -Mujahideen rather than Taliban: the Reagan presidency's support for General Zia was in part a cold war balancing act to what Washington had seen for years as a pro-Soviet bias in India; the Taliban were nurtured in the madrassas of Pakistan in the mid-1980s during the Soviet occupation when the USA/Saudi partnership was more focused on the Mujahideen rather than the Madrassas -I don't doubt that US dollars sent to Pakistan were used to fund the Madrassas but mostly it was Saudi money, so I don't believe you could argue the Taliban were 'created and encouraged' by Reagan given that they really took off in the 1990s when Reagan was out of office. Benazir Bhutto played a strategic role in the promotion of the Taliban, appointing them security guards for trade convoys in 1994.

Britain now has the problem in the decommissioning of its military apparatus in Afghanistan: Pakistan is the logical route out of the country but is not safe; Uzbekistan is now the favoured route but as head of state Islam Karimov wants a state visit to the UK as a quid pro quo so he can stay at Buckingham Palace -because of its appalling record on human rights, British foreign policy makers are stuck between the two....the other route is through Iran...

[Ben]

As Ron Paul has stated: the Afghanistan war is an "illegal" war, an "immoral" war and an "unconstitutional" war. In other words: it's fully justified -- ha ha! ;)
And now only 30 percent of Americans approve of it. But public opinion doesn't shape public policy. It's called: a democratic deficit.
I think we should re-institute the draft. And that'll end these wars pretty quickly. And if politicians really believe in these wars, well, they should send their own children. (One thing I respect about Sarah Palin: her son served in Iraq.)

Ron Paul 2012 - Afghan Military Will Be Broke By 2014 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVNr_ovs-6Q)

Ron Paul on Afghanistan, U.S. House Floor, 03/17/11 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrHm4phj5RQ)

[Ben]

Interesting read...

Gore Vidal on Tavis Smiley Part 2 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFa3aEqx9rs)

[irvin66]

To be serious for a while, there is no simple solution to the problems in Afghanistan. The Taliban are strong in some parts of the country and removing them is not easy. Ordinary people have want to do something themselves, unless it becomes difficult to stop them. They must agree among themselves but they do not agree, there are too many different clans and ethnic groups. :geek: