Bloody Football!

[robertlouis]

Padded Men ? Dat Beez Rayciss


Nope. Here's the proof. I played rugby at a fairly high level for nearly twenty years, and the assertion that only girls play soccer does come to mind.....

[Stavros]

Interesting and objective analysis in todays Telegraph which shows United ought to be Champions already -I think QPR will draw at least on Sunday anyway and that United will knock one past Sunderland...

Manchester United have cause for complaint as unique survey highlights Premier League errors

Manchester United would already be celebrating retaining their Premier League title, rather than preparing to surrender it to Manchester City, if every key refereeing decision had been made correctly this season, a study has shown.












By Tim Long

7:00AM BST 11 May 2012




Manchester City (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-city/) will win their first title for 44 years with victory against Queens Park Rangers at the Etihad Stadium on Sunday but thorough analysis of every big decision made by officials has revealed that Manchester United (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/) should be four points clear and already crowned as champions.

More than 200 hours has been spent analysing 674 decisions from all 370 games played this season including disallowed goals, penalty incidents and sendings-off.

Each replay was watched repeatedly in slow and super-slow motion with effort made to side with the referee where possible – decisions were not changed unless there was clear evidence that they should be.

The big calls that went against United and could have influenced the course of the title race included a penalty decision given against Rio Ferdinand for his tackle on Hatem Ben Arfa at Old Trafford last November, which meant they drew 1-1 with Newcastle.

There was also a potentially game-changing Jonathan Woodgate foul on Javier Hernández which was not given in the 1-1 draw at Stoke last September and should have resulted in a penalty and a red card. Each of these decisions probably cost United two points and a foul in the penalty area on Patrice Evra not given in their 3-2 defeat by Blackburn is likely to have deprived them another point.






The theory that the impact of refereeing decisions evens itself out over the course of the season is challenged by the research. United, for example, had 59.3 per cent of incorrect decisions go against them; City had 73.7 per cent of incorrect calls go against them. The difference between them and United is that when they lost out to refereeing decisions it didn’t alter the eventual result and only cost them two points.
The decisions analysed were those which could have, or did, lead to a goal. Match scores were adjusted as if each of the 179 incorrect decisions had been corrected by video technology in real time and an assumption made that any penalty that should have been given was successfully converted. The adjusted league table was then constructed based on the revised match results.
Among the 674 decisions analysed were 345 penalty calls made or missed, 129 key offside rulings and 135 incidents which did or should have led to a sending off.
Refereeing decisions might have cost Tottenham a Champions League with a league table adjusted to correct the officials’ mistakes giving them a three-point lead over Arsenal in the race for third place, with Newcastle adrift of fourth.
Bolton should be relegated by now and QPR safe. Blackburn would not yet be doomed while Aston Villa would go to Norwich on Sunday with their Premier League status still very much in jeopardy.
The research picked up 179 mistakes made by referees from the 674 significant decisions, meaning an impressive 74 per cent success rate in a job which does not benefit from the study’s advantage of video replays.
Chelsea may have benefited twice in key FA Cup moments but goalline controversies in the Premier League are rare. They are also usually called correctly, with 14 of the 18 decisions being spot on and judgments on two more inconclusive despite super slow-motion replays. Of the two the officials got wrong, only one would have brought a key change: QPR having been deprived of a goal and, therefore, a point in losing 2-1 rather than drawing 2-2 at Bolton in March.
Team
Decisions
Incorrect
Benefits team
Percentgae benefit
Arsenal
80
20
11
55
Aston Villa
69
17
11
64.7
Blackburn
62
17
8
47.1
Bolton
58
13
7
53.8
Chelsea
80
24
14
58.3
Everton
55
16
5
31.3
Fulham
54
16
5
31.3
Liverpool
87
19
5
26.3
Man City
77
11
3
27.3
Man Utd
79
27
11
40.7
Newcastle
74
20
13
65
Norwich
55
23
11
47.8
QPR
64
15
7
46.6
Stoke
80
26
17
65.4
Sunderland
57
16
12
75
Swansea
43
10
6
60
Spurs
76
21
9
42.9
West Brom
68
18
9
50
Wigan
62
16
5
31.3
Wolves
68
21
10
47.6
How the survey worked
Each replay was watched up to six times in slow motion/super-slow motion.
For penalty incidents, separate viewings were used to look for potential contact at the feet, ankles, knees, and upper-body areas.
If a penalty was judged to be 'missed’ it was assumed the kick would have been converted.
A conscious effort to side with the referee’s decision was made where possible.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/9258810/Manchester-United-have-cause-for-complaint-as-unique-survey-highlights-Premier-League-errors.html

[SammiValentine]

Liverpool have the highest net of decisions incorrect against a team, what a shocker. isnt it meant to balance out ? :D

[robertlouis]

Liverpool have the highest net of decisions incorrect against a team, what a shocker. isnt it meant to balance out ? :D

That stat will piss off Arsene Wenger so much that I almost feel like dancing a jig. :dancing::party::dancing::party:

[SammiValentine]

haha those stats combined with the amount of times we hit the woodwork and "battered" teams do give me more than hope that we are not as bad as people make out, its simply cos we are Liverpool. Make us dream !! :D

[SammiValentine]

"Opta stats state that Manchester United have had 51 shots fewer than Liverpool in the league this season, but have remarkably scored 41 more goals than the Reds."

[robertlouis]

"Opta stats state that Manchester United have had 51 shots fewer than Liverpool in the league this season, but have remarkably scored 41 more goals than the Reds."

Is there any truth in the rumour that a wee Scotsman in a padded coat has been seen in every premiership ground, under cover of night, with a bag of wet and dry sandpaper and a plane over by the goalposts in an attempt to improve those stats? :whistle:

BTW, I had lunch with Kenny in 1996 - I was a hospitality guest at the England vs Scotland game at Wembley at Euro 1996. Yes, that, fuckin' game with Gazza's goal and the ball that wobbled on the penalty spot.

Also Denis Law, wee Billy Bremner and JInkin' Jimmy Johnstone.

[SammiValentine]

haha genius goal, what a waste gazza was. talent wise.

[robertlouis]

haha genius goal, what a waste gazza was. talent wise.

He certainly was. Wonder what would have happened if he'd ended up under a master man manager like Ferguson or Martin O'Neill.

And it was a great goal - said through gritted teeth.

As good as wee Archie Gemmill's against Holland in 1978? The only goal, by the way, which has ever been turned into a ballet. No, honestly.

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3FvlWyyAKg

Archie Gemmill's World Cup Goal re-enacted in dance for Hogmanay
Dance performers 'Off Kilter' are to set Edinburgh's Hogmanay alight with their performance which will include a dramtic reconstruction of Archie Gemmills World Cup goal.

Culture Minister, Fiona Hyslop visited Dance Base in Edinburgh today to meet them.

'Innit Innat - No?' is choreographed by highland dance expert Frank McConnell and features traditional and Hip Hop dancers performing to a Martyn Bennett mix from Bothy Culture.

This is one of ten exciting dance pieces included in the Off Kilter programme, which also features original work by Scottish Ballet's Ashley Page and world-renowned choreographer Mark Morris, as well as an aerial acrobatic routine and an Indian classical dance piece.

[SammiValentine]

Who missed the pen? Was it gary mac? He never missed when it really mattered. tee hee.

[robertlouis]

Who missed the pen? Was it gary mac? He never missed when it really mattered. tee hee.

Steady missy.

Are you up early or late, btw?

[SammiValentine]

Steady missy.

Are you up early or late, btw?

Late. Going to bed now =) later xx

[robertlouis]

Late. Going to bed now =) later xx

Night night. Sweet dreams. x :praying:

[robertlouis]

And at last, the curtain closes.....almost

45 minutes to go, then the final round of matches in arguably the most exciting season since the premier league started 20 years ago will get under way.

To be decided:

Man City or Man Utd champions? - short odds on City

Arsenal to nail third place? - probably

Newcastle or Tottenham to finish fourth? - head says Spurs, heart says the Toon

Liverpool or Everton to finish higher - who cares? (just for Sammi)

Bolton or QPR to join Wolves and Blackburn in the relegation trio? - QPR

On Wednesday, Roy picks his first England squad. Any surprises to come?

And in less than a week, Chelski vs Bayern in the Champions League Final AND Blackpool vs West Ham in the Championship playoff. Hope Blackpool do it, just so we can get more of Olly's wonderfully mangled pearls of wisdom.

And in July, the Euros. Yes, the fucking Euros. Glad I'll be on holiday. Don't get me wrong, but the English media drive me mad whenever there's a major set of finals on. It isn't caledonian sour grapes, just the way they go on. Surefire winners to crap losers in the space of four matches....

Enjoy!

[SammiValentine]

hahahahahahhahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Stavros]

Hmmmm...how many minutes of extra time did they play? Talk about winning by a split hair...

[Arrowny]

Hmmmm...how many minutes of extra time did they play? Talk about winning by a split hair...

Well Joey Barton did go batshit crazy for a while there.

[SammiValentine]

How unlike joey barton lol

[Stavros]

That is Joey, I don't suppose he will ever change. I guess the fact that City couldn't break down 10 men until extra time indicates how slim the victory was; on balance City deserved it over the whole of the season, but both Arsenal and Chelsea won successive titles without being able, over the long run, to knock United off their long-term position. Interesting article in today's Telegraph which argues that the difference used to be that players would go to United precisely because of the opportunities MU offered to win something, because of the prestige as much as the money -rather like Liverpool in its heyday when playing for the Reds was the ultimate accolade. City have the money, but do they yet have the kudos, the prestige? If Ferguson's reign is over, City need to win the title again next season, and the season after that -and Ferguson needs to get it back. City have temperamental players, like Balotelli and Tevez; United needs to re-build, ease out the older players and re-vivify its mid-field and defence. Next season will be more interesting than this one, and hopefully, the quality of the football will be better.

Who do members think is manager of the year? They haven't won the European title, but I think di Matteo must be in with a shout, along with Pardew and Martin O'Neill -sometimes its about saving a club from self-destruction as much as victories that count.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/9262187/Wayne-Rooneys-contract-stand-off-was-an-early-warning-sign-for-Manchester-United.html

[robertlouis]

I wonder who it was who said in 1999, "Football, eh? Bloody hell."

Nobody could have scripted that finale.

Well done City.

And QPR certainly deserved to stay up after playing their part in one of the most dramatic matches in years.

Oh, and Joey Barton is due to star in Kung Fu Panda 3.

[robertlouis]

When you catch up over here, Seanchai, wtf happened to Newcastle in the last two games of the season? Looked very tired and bereft of ideas, such an anti-climax after what has still been a fantastic season.

I've always liked Newcastle and their fans, and it's great to see them with a team that their support deserve. Only hope that Pardew is allowed to consolidate and expand on their success and they don't go down the sad old route of selling on their best.

Congrats btw to Swansea and Norwich, 11th and 12th respectively.

And Sammi, apart from the upward blip against Chelsea's pensioner team, Liverpool have been abject beyond words. Can even Kenny's jaiket be hingin' oan a shoogly nail?

[SammiValentine]

And Sammi, apart from the upward blip against Chelsea's pensioner team, Liverpool have been abject beyond words. Can even Kenny's jaiket be hingin' oan a shoogly nail?

if you say so :)

[Stavros]

I see Gary Neville is now on the England coaching team. I haven't forgotten the first goal he scored for England...

...Guess we now have to turn our attention to the Euros: I read somewhere that demand for tickets from the UK has been very poor indeed. Is anyone here going?

[SammiValentine]

Anyone if their right mind wont be taking kids of GF's over there, will only be the hardcore "inggurrrland" boys, well the ones who are allowed :D

[jimbo1974]

wow - what a sunday !

Well done citeh - glad u won. How much off a bitter old c u next tuesday is Ferguson ? "Never in 100 years will you be like us ?". Fuck off you old twat. You were BEATEN !!

Barton lol. I hope the fukwit gets what is coming. Im not sure he is aware of the word Karma, but he'll be gooooogling it soon

RIP Kenny LOL

[robertlouis]

if you say so :)

Div yiz naw unnerstaun whit ah wis sayin, hen?


* Cecil Rhodes please note - that is authentic Glasgow speak.

Yamugyee. :dancing:

[robertlouis]

I see Gary Neville is now on the England coaching team. I haven't forgotten the first goal he scored for England...

...Guess we now have to turn our attention to the Euros: I read somewhere that demand for tickets from the UK has been very poor indeed. Is anyone here going?

I doubt if it's crossed the minds of potential fans, but at individual government and EU level there's a likely boycott of Ukraine because of the current treatment of the jailed former premier, Yulia Timuschenko.

Much more to the point is the entirely unrealistic pricing of accommodation - more a Ukrainian than Polish issue - where the cost of average to crap hotel accommodation has gone up by several 1000%. They'll have to see sense, but by that time it will be too late.

And in case we get smug, there are already plenty of anecdotes about similar scams in London for the Olympics. But then London always has been and always will be the rip-off capital of the UK. It starts with the bankers and ripples out from there....

[Stavros]

Dalgleish has gone...again...any recommendations for the job as manager of the dreariest football team in the North-West?

[Scottish_Guy]

A shame about Kenny - I'll miss those special interviews!!!

As for the job the bookies have the usual funny list! Its a brave man who takes the job on - I have no idea who can handle it!

[Stavros]

Here is a list:

1) Kevin Keegan
2) Roy Keane
3) Joey Barton (he looks like he is on the WayOut in London...)
4) Cilla Black
5) Alexander McLeish

[Scottish_Guy]

Here is a list:

1) Kevin Keegan
2) Roy Keane
3) Joey Barton (he looks like he is on the WayOut in London...)
4) Cilla Black
5) Alexander McLeish

Got to be Roy Keane then - be dead after 5mins of stoning. Be glad to see him vanish from itv's screens

[jimbo1974]

RIP Kenny

What a shite decision from JW Henry or whatever his name is. Give the bloke one more year

Is replacinG kd with Roberto Martinez going to help ? No

LFC = Disaster at the moment im afraid

[SammiValentine]

The owners are bellends.

[robertlouis]

The owners are bellends.

You've been really quiet, I guessed why. Txtd you earlier cos everyone was texting me!

Stunned.

Maybe he should never have gone back, but hopefully his status will be assured, not just for what he achieved on the pitch, but above all for his simple dignity and humanity after the agony of Hillsborough. The wee man held a whole city together in those weeks, and that must never be forgotten.

[SammiValentine]

His comeback was vital he was the only person of getting everyone behind the team as one,

I wish all the "liverpool fans" who called for Rafas head, and Kennys head, would go support someone else. That is all.

[tsadriana]

:salad:dancing:horayyyyyyyyyyyyyy Arsenal

[robertlouis]

His comeback was vital he was the only person of getting everyone behind the team as one,

I wish all the "liverpool fans" who called for Rafas head, and Kennys head, would go support someone else. That is all.

One thing that seems to have been forgotten in all the fevered speculation about Kenny's successor (Mourinho, Guardiola, oh yeah?), is that in his first time as Liverpool's boss, Kenny was himself simply a part of that proud and incredibly successful Anfield tradition of managers growing up in the bootroom of the club, people who shared the values of the club and its fans and never forgot their origins.

Now everyone looks for instant success and that organic tradition has gone, probably forever. It's retrograde and very unfortunate.

[robertlouis]

:salad:dancing:horayyyyyyyyyyyyyy Arsenal

Well, Adriana, I'd never have taken you for a Gooner, my dear!

[Stavros]

One thing that seems to have been forgotten in all the fevered speculation about Kenny's successor (Mourinho, Guardiola, oh yeah?), is that in his first time as Liverpool's boss, Kenny was himself simply a part of that proud and incredibly successful Anfield tradition of managers growing up in the bootroom of the club, people who shared the values of the club and its fans and never forgot their origins.

Now everyone looks for instant success and that organic tradition has gone, probably forever. It's retrograde and very unfortunate.

Shankly did not play for Liverpool, he played for Carlisle and Preston North End. If we follow your argument, that makes Steve 'fisticuffs' Gerrard a contender, along with Kevin Keegan, Ian Rush, Mark Lawrenson and Alan Hansen, to name a few. But not John Barnes. Perhaps that is why they are looking for men with managerial ability instead of housewives favourites.

[jimbo1974]

Im afraid LFC have lost the plot. They better sort themselves out, as their history does not give them a points headstart in the PL.

Im surprised Capello's name hasnt been mentioned....

[Stavros]

According to todays papers Fabio is in the frame for the Chelsea job.

Any thoughts/predictions for tomorrow night? Bayern Munich 1 Chelsea 2?

[SammiValentine]

Shankly did not play for Liverpool, he played for Carlisle and Preston North End. If we follow your argument, that makes Steve 'fisticuffs' Gerrard a contender, along with Kevin Keegan, Ian Rush, Mark Lawrenson and Alan Hansen, to name a few. But not John Barnes. Perhaps that is why they are looking for men with managerial ability instead of housewives favourites.

Thats rubbish sorry, none of the named was part of the bootroom.

[Stavros]

So what is meant by 'bootroom'? I have assumed it referred to players and coaching staff.

[robertlouis]

Shankly did not play for Liverpool, he played for Carlisle and Preston North End. If we follow your argument, that makes Steve 'fisticuffs' Gerrard a contender, along with Kevin Keegan, Ian Rush, Mark Lawrenson and Alan Hansen, to name a few. But not John Barnes. Perhaps that is why they are looking for men with managerial ability instead of housewives favourites.

With respect, Stavros, that wasn't my argument in the first place.

When Bill Shankly took over as Liverpool manager, he created a culture within the bootroom beneath Anfield, of coaches, trainers and others associated directly with the football side of the club and turned it into a collective where all issues of selection, transfers, tactics and training were hammered out by the people who knew the club from the inside and from the ground up, and shared Shanks's values and visions. It was that unique tradition that produced Bob Paisley, Joe Fagan, Roy Evans and others and which played the major role in ensuring Liverpool's dominance in the 70's and 80's. It also gave the club an unparalleled continuity and stability - they used to go through a whole season, winning trophies galore, with a squad of just fourteen or fifteen, unthinkable now.

My uncle Billy played for the club in the mid-60s and has always spoken in awe of the simple wisdom that the likes of Shanks and Paisley could spread around the dressing room so effectively. Everyone nowadays (rightly) raves about Barcelona's philosophy and their tiki-taka play, but it began at Liverpool under Shankly - one-touch passing in mobile triangles, creating the space and making the ball do the work, and it gave us the finest football, under Shanks, Paisley and during Kenny's first reign, that England has ever seen.

The rot set in when Graeme Sounness followed Kenny, dispensing with the bootroom both physically and philosophically. Wonderful player, piss-poor manager. It's never been replaced and the club, and dare I say it, football as a whole, is poorer for its loss.

[Stavros]

All fair points, RobertLouis. I know its the season of ridicule for LFC right now but I have enjoyed their successes as much as I have enjoyed those of United, and also expect to head off to a packed pub this evening to watch Chelsea win, although I don't like pubs. I am not, however, a fan of Dalgleish as a manager, he was an outstanding player, but should never have returned and not just because of the way he walked out the first time. I don't think Souness was a great player, he was made to look good by the men around him, but otherwise I don't know enough about the club to make anything other than superfiicial comments. But it is going to be some time before they return to the top quartile of the Premier League.

[robertlouis]

Well done Chelsea. Bet Di Matteo doesn't get the job though....

[robertlouis]

And for all the idiots posting Nazi crap about Bayern (not on HA, it's just pissing me off), did you know that Bayern have a proud history of opposing the Nazis and supporting their own Jewish players and officials even under the worst of times?

Oh, and not a moment's trouble in Munich last night. Well done both sets of fans.

When will the English ever grow up?

[Stavros]

Chelsea put in a fierce defensive effort and it almost worked to perfection -interesting that the one major error, was stiker Drogba's foul on Ribery in the penalty area. As good a defensive performance as they put in against Bercelona. Robben, predictable as always, has never been as good as some think he is -or as he thinks he is himself. That said, Cech over the years has been one of the finest goalkeepers I have ever seen, and Drogba managed to score a penalty having missed crucial ones in his career before. I am not a fan but I think overall Chelsea deserved the win. And it means Tottenham won't be playing in the Champions League -does this mean Bale goes to United after all?

Does di Matteo now become Chelsea manager, or will the job go to someone else?

[jimbo1974]

Bale wont go to MUFC. Barca maybe....

Chelsea are (to be honest) a bit shite. Well done for winning the CL, but it wasnt a victory for enthralling footnall was it. Boring as fuck.

Torres is now whinging that he didnt start the game - tosser - what does he expect ? He has tripped over his dick most games since they spent 50 MILLION on him. He scores one goal agaisnt Barca, and throws his toys out of the pram. The cock.

SAFC - Ha'way the lads.

[Stavros]

Didn't Torres repay his transfer fee with that one goal against Barcelona? Now Chelsea have won the cup the profits are even bigger, but I think he really wants to go back to Spain. Chelsea performed the way many Italian teams in the past played when they locked-up their defence; from that perspective it was a brilliant performance, but like defensive play in cricket, not exciting to watch.

Now the Euros---anyone expecting a Spain -vs- Germany final?

[robertlouis]

One to get Sammi frothing.

Moyes for Anfield. Discuss.

Takes cover...... :dancing: :hide-1:

[Stavros]

Today's Telegraph errs on the costa del Fabio

[robertlouis]

Today's Telegraph errs on the costa del Fabio

That's up there with Caligula's horse as a fit!

[SammiValentine]

Football is a lie!

[robertlouis]

Football is a lie!

Hello Petal. Thought that might rattle your pram a little. :dancing::hide-1:

[jimbo1974]

'arry for LFC i reckon !

hehe

twiffic

[SammiValentine]

fu.

:D xxxxx

[jimbo1974]

fu.

:D xxxxx

Yeah ok :jerkoff

Mourinho signed up at RM for another 4 years.

Would you have Rafa back ?

[SammiValentine]

Course I would, wonderful man, boss manager, more than happy with that, hence my "football is a lie" Rafa quote :D Was gutted when he was forced out. :(

If he doesnt come home then, AVB if he is mad enough to take the job.

[Stavros]

Ally McCoist might decide the Rangers fiasco is as much as he can take, would he be acceptable?

Is Ken Dodd a Liverpool fan? I guess he could reach across the whole of the Kop with his tickling stick, which would at least be tickletastically tatifillarious, unlike the football on the turf.

But what happens now to Torres?

[SammiValentine]

Looking back on your football posts your quite, errr very anti liverpool stavros! for someone who "enjoyed their success" lol :D

[robertlouis]

Ally McCoist might decide the Rangers fiasco is as much as he can take, would he be acceptable?

Is Ken Dodd a Liverpool fan? I guess he could reach across the whole of the Kop with his tickling stick, which would at least be tickletastically tatifillarious, unlike the football on the turf.

But what happens now to Torres?

Ally's not ready, but his dignity amidst the farce around him does him great credit. And he was the best out-and-out striker Scotland have had since the peerless Denis Law.

As for Liverpool, everyone on their list seems to be turning them down. It isn't surprising - who knows what FSG's next move will be and who would willingly take that risk with their career and reputation? Even Martinez is probably better off with another season or two at Wigan.

And I hear Villas Boas is in the frame. Bloody hell!

[Stavros]

Looking back on your football posts your quite, errr very anti liverpool stavros! for someone who "enjoyed their success" lol :D

Not at all, my remarks are more flippant than angry, I am afraid that is a reflection of the way LFC has been managed in recent years. Can't take them seriously. Telegraph latest is that van Gaal is in the frame.

[SammiValentine]

I didnt say angry :D Fair enough......;-)x

[jimbo1974]

I have sympathy with the LFC fans. As a Sunderland fan, pain and misery is the normal order of the day.

Van Gaal would be a good choice. AVB ?? hmmm - he looked like a bit of a nut job at Chelsea.

I am not looking forward to the euros. England shite and Woys motivational skills. Major yawn. I think ill go play rounders instead

[SammiValentine]

Most reports was Van Gaal for this "DOF" bollacks job, not the manager post. Load of shit all these diff roles anyway.

We sold our soul to the devil (thanks moores) and we are still getting fucked from it, are the 2nd set of owners any better than the first lot..?? Well they have not started assett stripping yet but , still no new stadium news. All this talk of "Money they have invested", we have the biggest sponsorship deal we ever had and biggest in the prem. Furthermore from that "£120 million spent" approx £25-30million was all that was not raised through selling our players. Now take into account the MASSIVE wage difference that you will see in next years accounts, all the new "big money signing" players are on a fraction of what the old stars are, plus all the deadwood that was sat on big wages has gone.......vast amount of money saved weekly, not to mention our mechandise is still one of the best sold "brands" in the world (which is they they took us on, obviously) so if we do not get any funds it all goes back to the golden question... where is the money going? Are we due another £37 million ihn surveyors fees like H&G - before a spade even went in the ground... lol

Apart from that they seem to be sat in Boston and do not have a clue what theyre doing Manager wise, online polls suggested 80% was against removing Dalgish, and polls also indicate that 60-70%+ (Varies forum to forum) want Rafa back but wont even be interviewed... playing a risky game imo. They do not have a clue.

Rar.

Rant over. Carry on.
xx

[Stavros]

Your rant touches on a lot of the issues which may or may not explain why Spanish football teams appear to be playing better as teams. On one level I think it has something to do with the import of foreign players which has been both a blessing and a curse -in the past the restrictions on foreign players meant that there were a few (Arnold Muhren for example) whereas EU employment law and restraint on trade law etc have opened up opportunities that did not exist in years past. Has this prevented local talent from feeding through into the clubs as a form of natural progression? It is rather like some industries who shut down their R&D facility -why invest money in home-grown research if you can buy it off the shelf? Make or Buy? I don't know because Wayne Rooney, Theo Walcott, Aaron Ramsay and Christian Bale are examples of 'local talent' who could probably move to a foreign club if they wanted to. But why then has LFC bought such poor defenders, when in the past it had laters of talent in defence whose skills were as good as the midfielders and strikers -that complete, total football which cannot work if you don't hire the best players.

If the nurturing of local talent is not what it used to be, have the internal dynamics of the club also changed? There used to be a manager with a tightly knit group of coaches and scouts and they all were part of the fabric which gave clubs identity, purpose, player support and so on -it was this organic football that made Celtic and Liverpool such powerful clubs in the 1960s in particular when Jock Stein's Celtic players were all from Glasgow. Nowadays you have a 'Director of Football', a manager, an assistant manager, a coach for goalies, a coach for defenders but apparently no coach for penalties. It has become atomised inside the club, while the prima donnas like JohnTerry assume they run the dressing room anyway. How long would John Terry have lasted under Bill Shankly I wonder? Joey Barton wouldn't even be cleaning boots (but Shanks might feel he could tame 'the lad' and turn him into a professional, or not). Bobby Moore (whom I once bumped into when I was on an errand for my boss at the time) lived in a semi-detached that looks like the setting for Abigail's Party; Arry Redknapp who also has Ammers istory lives in palatial splendour in Sandbanks. Money has eaten away the soul of football as a working class sport, but I don't begrudge it to young lads whose careers last 10 years if they are lucky.

Ownership reflects globalisation, but it makes demands of teams that cannot be realistically delivered -Chelsea have still cost RA more than he has reaped even with this latest success.

Liverpool have lost the bootroom mentality that was crucial to their former success, they have had owners who lacked the commitment and crucially, did not understand Liverpool as a city in the context of England, and their inability to get a manager like Ferguson or Wenger has cost them. I think they will return to the top fight, but it doesn't look like it yet.

[SammiValentine]

hey you didnt know exactly what the bootroom was the other day :D I will reply to the rest later ;)

[Stavros]

I am not really that sure, sometimes I think it means the dressing room, at other times a more genera area with players, coaches, physios, and so on. I don't know everything...!

[SammiValentine]

I am not really that sure, sometimes I think it means the dressing room, at other times a more genera area with players, coaches, physios, and so on. I don't know everything...!

heheheh :D eugh will reply in full later, on behalf of my mate Rafa la.

[beaufont]

I think Rafa returning would be a good choice also but I doubt whoever take's over will be given the time they really need to get the job done at Liverpool - the first thing they need to do is earn the right to be classed a top 4 club again & I feel that is omething that may take 3 years to do rather than the 1 the owner's will want it to take.

The problem with many of these football club owner's these days is that they want instant success & don't seem to realise that to get to where they want to be could take 3-5 years of steady planning. Also another thing (I don't want to annoy any of our American friend's) I don't like the fact that all these top English club's are being run by foreigner's that have no sense of tradition & as soon as anyone refer's to football as SOCCER I kind of loose interest!!!!!!!!!!!!

But that is the beast the Premiership as become these day's & at the end of the day money talk's - player's constantly getting their head's turned by parasite agent's who are looking to get the best deal possible so they can take their piece of the cake.

I for one will not be surprised to see Van Persie leave Arsenal purely cos he knows he can pick up more money elsewhere, he is happy at Arsenal but that simply isnot enough for these player's these day's - obscene amounts of money being earned....

Jealous you fucking bet I am :pissed:

[robertlouis]

CHRISTIAN Bale, Stavros?

Shurely shome mishtake.....

Although Tottenham could probably do with some help from Batman..... :dancing:

[robertlouis]

Most reports was Van Gaal for this "DOF" bollacks job, not the manager post. Load of shit all these diff roles anyway.

We sold our soul to the devil (thanks moores) and we are still getting fucked from it, are the 2nd set of owners any better than the first lot..?? Well they have not started assett stripping yet but , still no new stadium news. All this talk of "Money they have invested", we have the biggest sponsorship deal we ever had and biggest in the prem. Furthermore from that "£120 million spent" approx £25-30million was all that was not raised through selling our players. Now take into account the MASSIVE wage difference that you will see in next years accounts, all the new "big money signing" players are on a fraction of what the old stars are, plus all the deadwood that was sat on big wages has gone.......vast amount of money saved weekly, not to mention our mechandise is still one of the best sold "brands" in the world (which is they they took us on, obviously) so if we do not get any funds it all goes back to the golden question... where is the money going? Are we due another £37 million ihn surveyors fees like H&G - before a spade even went in the ground... lol

Apart from that they seem to be sat in Boston and do not have a clue what theyre doing Manager wise, online polls suggested 80% was against removing Dalgish, and polls also indicate that 60-70%+ (Varies forum to forum) want Rafa back but wont even be interviewed... playing a risky game imo. They do not have a clue.

Rar.

Rant over. Carry on.
xx

It's a big quandary, no doubt about that. In a different climate they might have left Kenny in place for another season, and what they need is a stabilising influence. But..... isn't that what Hodgson was supposed to provide? Oh well......

I reckon that what we're seeing at Liverpool is possibly unique in the premiership era - owners who are if anything more desperate for success than the fans. What I mean by that is that the owners are pressurised by the need to show a healthy return on capital for their shareholders, or their entire business will fall under critical scrutiny, while the fanbase, more experienced and ingrained in their club's traditions and its emotional attachment to the city community, understand and accept that it will take time, five years or more, for Liverpool to reach a status where they can have even the slightest hope of returning to former glories.

So, the fans have more patience and strategic insight than the owners. You can't make this stuff up, can you?

[Stavros]

CHRISTIAN Bale, Stavros?

Shurely shome mishtake.....

Although Tottenham could probably do with some help from Batman..... :dancing:

Freudian slip I think...I wasn't sure at the time, I think I once had to google it because I wasn't sure.

[robertlouis]

Roy's Ingerland take on the might of Norway over the weekend.

Any thoughts?

And apart from Capello and Hodgson, does anyone honestly believe that Glenn Johnson is a better right back than Micah Richards?

[jimbo1974]

Any thoughts?

Thoughts on England :

We are shit. We will continue to be shit. Our new leader is shit. As soon as the players put on an England shirt they become shit. We will be shit at the euros

In conclusion :

A bunch of shit

[SammiValentine]

Will watch whatever I can, really do not care though and have no thoughts. Just hope our players come home in one piece, in the past players such as owen, gerrard, torres.... getting injured in internationals all the time..lmao

I do care about something though, so roll on August. No splitters!! Stand!! :D

[beaufont]

I think we should play Sammi in the hole :salad to throw the opposition's concentration & give us half a chance of scoring!!!!

Sorry my mind is still stuck on Sammi :fuckin::fuckin:

[SammiValentine]

in the hole sounds good :D

[beaufont]

mmmmmmmmmmmm yes it does!!!!!!!

[robertlouis]

Will watch whatever I can, really do not care though and have no thoughts. Just hope our players come home in one piece, in the past players such as owen, gerrard, torres.... getting injured in internationals all the time..lmao

I do care about something though, so roll on August. No splitters!! Stand!! :D

Well, good news for Liverpool - and England - that twat Glenn Johnson has a knackered toe.

[Stavros]

Does anyone think that there is a better alternative to hung matches than a penalty shoot-out? Sepp Blatter has appointed a commisison headed by Beckenbauer to look into it. Am I right in thinking that a penalty is a part of a football match if a foul has been committed in the area? Is there something about a player being unable to score from a penalty so embarrassing that it must be scrapped? Or could it be that if you cannot score a penalty you shouldn't be on the pitch anyway? The penalty is a fascinating combination of footballing skill (also true of goalkeepers) as well as a psychological test, and that is why I think it should stay. Better than tossing a coin. The Daily Mail has suggeste 'rock, paper, scissors' whatever that it is, it doesn't sound very footbally to me though.

[robertlouis]

Does anyone think that there is a better alternative to hung matches than a penalty shoot-out? Sepp Blatter has appointed a commisison headed by Beckenbauer to look into it. Am I right in thinking that a penalty is a part of a football match if a foul has been committed in the area? Is there something about a player being unable to score from a penalty so embarrassing that it must be scrapped? Or could it be that if you cannot score a penalty you shouldn't be on the pitch anyway? The penalty is a fascinating combination of footballing skill (also true of goalkeepers) as well as a psychological test, and that is why I think it should stay. Better than tossing a coin. The Daily Mail has suggeste 'rock, paper, scissors' whatever that it is, it doesn't sound very footbally to me though.

When I was a lad we had this quaint thing called a replay - if you couldn't settle affairs within 90 minutes you came back next week and started from scratch. What the hell's wrong with that?

Oh yes, it doesn't fit with the TV schedules. Well, fuck 'em. Penalty shoot-outs might make for brief gladiatorial spectacle, but they're a perverse way to finish a football match, let alone the Champions' League or the FA Cup - even the World Cup, all too often. And they ruin careers. Remember Baggio in 1994, Waddle, Pearce, Southgate etc etc?

Play the game again FFS.

[Stavros]

A bit overwrought I think RobertLouis -in the first place, a penalty is part of a football match, and the core question is why didn't those players score a penalty? Why do some footballer faced with an open goal hit the ball over the bar? It is a critical moment psychologically, and there is some guy in Manchester I think who claims he can train players so that they never miss.

A replay sounds just, but what happens if the second -and the third- replays don't deliver a single goal or end 1-1 or 2-2 or even 6-6? How many times can someone from, say Liverpool make the trek from Birkenhead to, say, Istanbul for a football match? Finances are also a consideration, and for the fans.

[robertlouis]

A bit overwrought I think RobertLouis -in the first place, a penalty is part of a football match, and the core question is why didn't those players score a penalty? Why do some footballer faced with an open goal hit the ball over the bar? It is a critical moment psychologically, and there is some guy in Manchester I think who claims he can train players so that they never miss.

A replay sounds just, but what happens if the second -and the third- replays don't deliver a single goal or end 1-1 or 2-2 or even 6-6? How many times can someone from, say Liverpool make the trek from Birkenhead to, say, Istanbul for a football match? Finances are also a consideration, and for the fans.

Yes, of course there are limits logistically, but right now if I was a Sheffield Utd fan whose entire season came down to my team's goalkeeper taking a penalty against his opposite number and missing it, I'd be wondering if there was a better way to decide something so important. Don't forget that Sheff Utd finished 3rd by one point and gave way in the play-off final to the team that finished 11 points behind them.

[Stavros]

But that's the cruelty of football -if city had not scored in extra time in the last game of the season United would be champions -it is an accumulation of points from individual matches, not a general verdict on a season that wins titles -United in the past have scraped through loaeds of games 1-0 without playing well. This is why some argue Chelsea were not the better side in Munich, as if defending were a secondary part of football -its about winning. The core question remains: why didn't Sheffield United win during 90 minutes of play if they are that good?

[JenniferParisHusband]

I'm a believer in the "golden goal." Play your 90, do your overtime, then it's 15 minute periods until someone earns the win. If you had that, I guarnatee Munich would have the cup, and not the rent boys.

[Stavros]

Fine, but what happens if nobody scores? Can a football match last for, say, seven hours, or indeed, seven days? It may sound absurd, but the tennis match at Wimbledon a few years ago between Mahut and Isner which went in the last set to 70-68 games was noticeable for the steep decline in the quality of the play. It lasted that long because both players were playing so badly, and were equally matched in fatigue and lack of imagination. No, penalties are part of football, and they have the drama, comedy and tragedy that gives players an extra motivation to prove their worth.

[jimbo1974]

This is an interesting graphic. The graph showing wages spent vs League position is particularly telling. It shows how well Spurs, for example are doing, compared to their wage bill.

[SammiValentine]

check liverpools wage bill in the next set of books. :)

[jimbo1974]

check liverpools wage bill in the next set of books. :)

I presume its gone down ?

Dunno really

[SammiValentine]

massively

[Stavros]

Sammi what is your position on a new stadium? Should Anfield be developed, or should there be one grand stadium in Liverpool for the use of Liverpool FC, and Everton -and maybe even Tranmere? Economically, I would have thought it made sense for a new one, and also, I think I might have said this before, in spite of the rivalry between the reds and the blues, the derby has more frisson there than anything other than, perhaps, Arsenal-v-Spurs. The Reds and toffees jokes are way ahead of any other footballing jokes even if I can't remember any (Where's Stand Boardman when we need 'im?)...

and where would it be? And...what would it be called...please please not the Beatles Stadium....or the Cavern Hub....but...the Shankly-Sharp stadium is possible-(can anyone ever forget that devastating goal by Graham Sharp.."the Evertonians have gone berserk..."??

That Goal By Sharpy! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsBCEmKle_c)

[robertlouis]

Sammi what is your position on a new stadium? Should Anfield be developed, or should there be one grand stadium in Liverpool for the use of Liverpool FC, and Everton -and maybe even Tranmere? Economically, I would have thought it made sense for a new one, and also, I think I might have said this before, in spite of the rivalry between the reds and the blues, the derby has more frisson there than anything other than, perhaps, Arsenal-v-Spurs. The Reds and toffees jokes are way ahead of any other footballing jokes even if I can't remember any (Where's Stand Boardman when we need 'im?)...

and where would it be? And...what would it be called...please please not the Beatles Stadium....or the Cavern Hub....but...the Shankly-Sharp stadium is possible-(can anyone ever forget that devastating goal by Graham Sharp.."the Evertonians have gone berserk..."??



Never been to an Old Firm game, have you, Stavros?

[SammiValentine]

Sammi what is your position on a new stadium? Should Anfield be developed, or should there be one grand stadium in Liverpool for the use of Liverpool FC, and Everton -and maybe even Tranmere? Economically, I would have thought it made sense for a new one, and also, I think I might have said this before, in spite of the rivalry between the reds and the blues, the derby has more frisson there than anything other than, perhaps, Arsenal-v-Spurs. The Reds and toffees jokes are way ahead of any other footballing jokes even if I can't remember any (Where's Stand Boardman when we need 'im?)...

and where would it be? And...what would it be called...please please not the Beatles Stadium....or the Cavern Hub....but...the Shankly-Sharp stadium is possible-(can anyone ever forget that devastating goal by Graham Sharp.."the Evertonians have gone berserk..."??

That Goal By Sharpy! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsBCEmKle_c)

if we can hold 65k in an anfield bolt on then its gotta be that, otherwise new. (id much prefer to redevelop anfield though for many reasons!)x

Name will be determined by £ not by sentiment sadly :|

Yay for football:(

[Stavros]

Never been to an Old Firm game, have you, Stavros?

A comment of no relevance to the situation in Liverpool; as I said, in spite of the rivalry, the reds and the blues at least know how to get a good laugh out of their historic partnership, which can't be said about Celtic and Rangers.

[zeebeedee]

Stavros, football fans who "get a laugh" out their rivalry as per your words , well it can hardly then create a "frisson" to use another of your words, now can it.
There is but one absolute rivalry that exists in football and its the Old Firm.

[robertlouis]

Stavros, football fans who "get a laugh" out their rivalry as per your words , well it can hardly then create a "frisson" to use another of your words, now can it.
There is but one absolute rivalry that exists in football and its the Old Firm.

Just back after 5 days gigging in and around Glasgow. Rangers' travails dominate the front as well as the back pages and the old rivalries are as sharp as ever. Everton and Liverpool can and have buried tribal rivalries when their community has needed unity. Spurs and Arsenal can get nasty, especially the tasteless and offensive antisemitic filth from the Gooners, and things can get tasty in the north east and elsewhere. But stir in that deadly poison of sectarianism and there's an altogether different and more combustible edge to the Old Firm.

But just to show how wonderfully parochial rivalries can become, a friend was at a game between Plymouth and Exeter for bragging rights in Devon, only to hear the Plymouth fans regaling their hated rivals with chants of "Dirty Northern Bastards!". You can't buy humour like that.

[irvin66]

:dancing:

[jimbo1974]

lol

Arsenal are shite

[Stavros]

Does anyone think the Chelsea-Manchester United game was a thrilling mixture of football and farce? Is the real issue player surrounding a referee and trying to intimidate him into reversing or giving a card? In how many sports are the players allowed to surround a referee as if they were about to lynch him? Although I would be surprised if Clattenburg used bad language as is claimed (and Chelsea players have had to publicly retract allegations about referees before now) if he did then he must go. But the real issues must be the way that players dive, or cheat or deliberately try to provoke bad behaviour from an opponent to get them a card, and the combination of lack of respect for the match officials and their occasinally bizarre decisions. It might make for a lively match, but if it isn't fair, it can spoil the enjoyment of the game.

And to think we have to go through it all again tonight! Surely its time to drop this pointless competition, why are there two cup competitions for this country? Enough!

[GroobySteven]

Does anyone think the Chelsea-Manchester United game was a thrilling mixture of football and farce? Is the real issue player surrounding a referee and trying to intimidate him into reversing or giving a card? In how many sports are the players allowed to surround a referee as if they were about to lynch him? Although I would be surprised if Clattenburg used bad language as is claimed (and Chelsea players have had to publicly retract allegations about referees before now) if he did then he must go. But the real issues must be the way that players dive, or cheat or deliberately try to provoke bad behaviour from an opponent to get them a card, and the combination of lack of respect for the match officials and their occasinally bizarre decisions. It might make for a lively match, but if it isn't fair, it can spoil the enjoyment of the game.

And to think we have to go through it all again tonight! Surely its time to drop this pointless competition, why are there two cup competitions for this country? Enough!

I'm fucking tired of Chelsea. It was a good game, Man Utd looked dominant for 25 mins but Torres diving (again) deserved a red card. I think the allegations against Clattenburg will be false and if that's found out to be the truth then the players making them should get an extensive ban and the club fined. Lying, cheating and intimidation starts at the top with this club and when you've an owner whose made his money through those methods, it's natural it spills down.

[robertlouis]

Changing tack a bit. Champions League. All the British clubs have so far been, well, a bit pants, haven't they? Celtic have an excuse as they don't have any money - and they were within a minute of holding Barca to a draw away - but Man U, despite having max points so far have looked very shaky and unconvincing, and the other three have just been shite.

Best league in the world? Hollow laughter.....

[SammiValentine]

The Champions League needs Liverpool :) Bah.

I think the current premier league is actually more competitive right now, compared to the big four era (which was 04/05- 08/09, which is the period when english clubs "dominated" the champions league, note I say dominate in a sarcastic tone as its a long way off the late 70's early 80s when that was real english dominiation) however I do think that the overall quality of the premier league has dropped, the imports since 09/10 have not matched the exports, and I include Managers in this equation. The change of the big 4 has weakened the "premier leagues" performances or results in Europe as the new teams have not stepped up to the mantle, Liverpool was big hitters most seasons under rafa in europe.

To me its no suprise the results in champs league, not since Messi run rings Man Utd at wembley in May 2009. The only real surprise for me was Chelsea managing to win it last year, and we all remember that amazing sporting spectacle. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :)

Re Celtic, punching above their weight in champs league, well done to them, I tip my hat. Now I can watch them put everyone behind the ball and hang on for dear life all day long v Bacelona, but a team such as chelsea and how they have changed the game with Roman, hahaha. SMH as they say.

[SammiValentine]

Does anyone think the Chelsea-Manchester United game was a thrilling mixture of football and farce? Is the real issue player surrounding a referee and trying to intimidate him into reversing or giving a card? In how many sports are the players allowed to surround a referee as if they were about to lynch him? Although I would be surprised if Clattenburg used bad language as is claimed (and Chelsea players have had to publicly retract allegations about referees before now) if he did then he must go. But the real issues must be the way that players dive, or cheat or deliberately try to provoke bad behaviour from an opponent to get them a card, and the combination of lack of respect for the match officials and their occasinally bizarre decisions. It might make for a lively match, but if it isn't fair, it can spoil the enjoyment of the game.

And to think we have to go through it all again tonight! Surely its time to drop this pointless competition, why are there two cup competitions for this country? Enough!

Nothing wrong with two cup competitions. A lot of clubs outside of the premier league are very grateful for this extra source of income. Worthwhile IMO.

[robertlouis]

The Champions League needs Liverpool :) Bah.

I think the current premier league is actually more competitive right now, compared to the big four era (which was 04/05- 08/09, which is the period when english clubs "dominated" the champions league, note I say dominate in a sarcastic tone as its a long way off the late 70's early 80s when that was real english dominiation) however I do think that the overall quality of the premier league has dropped, the imports since 09/10 have not matched the exports, and I include Managers in this equation. The change of the big 4 has weakened the "premier leagues" performances or results in Europe as the new teams have not stepped up to the mantle, Liverpool was big hitters most seasons under rafa in europe.

To me its no suprise the results in champs league, not since Messi run rings Man Utd at wembley in May 2009. The only real surprise for me was Chelsea managing to win it last year, and we all remember that amazing sporting spectacle. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :)

Re Celtic, punching above their weight in champs league, well done to them, I tip my hat. Now I can watch them put everyone behind the ball and hang on for dear life all day long v Bacelona, but a team such as chelsea and how they have changed the game with Roman, hahaha. SMH as they say.

I agree entirely with your comments on the EPL, although it's less about the rest upping their quality and more about the frailties, mostly defensive, of the Big 4 - and if Liverpool get some striking power to match their overall play, their challenge after Christmas could be interesting.

And the last decent Champions League Final was Milan v Liverpool in 2005 - which I watched over an iffy internet connection in Tokyo!

Any chance that Rafa might take the Scotland job? :praying:

[SammiValentine]

I agree entirely with your comments on the EPL, although it's less about the rest upping their quality and more about the frailties, mostly defensive, of the Big 4 - and if Liverpool get some striking power to match their overall play, their challenge after Christmas could be interesting.

And the last decent Champions League Final was Milan v Liverpool in 2005 - which I watched over an iffy internet connection in Tokyo!

Any chance that Rafa might take the Scotland job? :praying:

I dont know, the premier league has lost Ronaldo, Fabregas, Alonso, many others - have they really replaced them? You could argue current stars at chelsea and man city do rival such names, your Agueros, Silvas, Hazards etc but even so theyre not under the same influential management, Mouriniho, Rafa.. who has replaced them? Mancini, Di Matteo...? Ouch.

As I say Man City have attracted quality players with unlimited money but still not gelled as a side, the fact that the champions are not really what I would class a "team" are what I base my expectations of prem clubs doing in the champions league, and that is very little. As i said chelsea was a shock last year, hopefully not repeated :)

[Stavros]

Nothing wrong with two cup competitions. A lot of clubs outside of the premier league are very grateful for this extra source of income. Worthwhile IMO.

Then leave it the clubs outside the Premier League, I think its possibly unfair on clubs that don't have squads as large as the major Premier League Clubs, unless they play two different teams for the two different tournaments; and anyway, the FA Cup is not as exciting as it once was.

I am no fan of Manchester City, but I thought they were hard done by last night. The oddest thing of all is that Roberto Mancini reminds me of an Italian woman I used to know (and like rather a lot) and no, its not his hair..

[robertlouis]

What a fantastic result for Celtic! If the ref had had the courage, Mascherano would have been sent off, young Watt would have scored again and Barca would have been down to ten men, 3-0 or 3-1 the final score. A fervent Glasgow crowd, Parkhead or Ibrox, is truly the twelfth man.

The Barca boss remarked before the game that when they'd won he would play a youth team in the final two games. Tosser.

[rodinuk]

Now possibly his final two games :D

[robertlouis]

Now possibly his final two games :D

Yes indeed. Hubris writ large.

By the way, St Johnstone drew 1-1 at Celtic on Sunday. Does that make them better than Barca? :dancing:

[Stavros]

Bumped into Gordon Strachan the other day, his sense of humour is, shall we say, obscure. His wife his hot! (Well, I am assuming that was his wife!)

[robertlouis]

Bumped into Gordon Strachan the other day, his sense of humour is, shall we say, obscure. His wife his hot! (Well, I am assuming that was his wife!)

When he managed Southampton, a reporter asked if he could have a quick word as Strachan ran down the tunnel at half-time and Strachan kept on walking but shouted "Rapidity!" over his shoulder.

I was lucky enough to have lunch with a number of Scottish football legends during the Euro 96 finals and ended up sitting between Strachan and Denis Law, facing the late Billy Bremner and also Joe Jordan. I don't think I've ever laughed so much in my life. Wee Gordie's wit is razor sharp.

Maybe it's the accent, Stavros. Ye ken? :dancing:

[Stavros]

When he managed Southampton, a reporter asked if he could have a quick word as Strachan ran down the tunnel at half-time and Strachan kept on walking but shouted "Rapidity!" over his shoulder.

I was lucky enough to have lunch with a number of Scottish football legends during the Euro 96 finals and ended up sitting between Strachan and Denis Law, facing the late Billy Bremner and also Joe Jordan. I don't think I've ever laughed so much in my life. Wee Gordie's wit is razor sharp.

Maybe it's the accent, Stavros. Ye ken? :dancing:
Pardon? Can you say that again, please?

[robertlouis]

Pardon? Can you say that again, please?

Pick a windae pal. Yir leavin'. :whistle:

[SammiValentine]

Now possibly his final two games :D

probably not, they have had best start to a spanish league season ever. :)

[SammiValentine]

When he managed Southampton, a reporter asked if he could have a quick word as Strachan ran down the tunnel at half-time and Strachan kept on walking but shouted "Rapidity!" over his shoulder.

I was lucky enough to have lunch with a number of Scottish football legends during the Euro 96 finals and ended up sitting between Strachan and Denis Law, facing the late Billy Bremner and also Joe Jordan. I don't think I've ever laughed so much in my life. Wee Gordie's wit is razor sharp.

Maybe it's the accent, Stavros. Ye ken? :dancing:

Used to make me life Strachans interviews. I like the quick wit kinda thing :)

[robertlouis]

Used to make me life Strachans interviews. I like the quick wit kinda thing :)

Another wee Gordie quote:

Reporter: Gordon, you must be delighted with that result?

Strachan: You're spot on! You can read me like a book. :dancing:

[SammiValentine]

Gordon Strachan - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfEV0iO0iCw)

[robertlouis]

Gordon Strachan - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfEV0iO0iCw)

Thanks Sammi. If he takes the Scotland job then the interviews will be at least more interesting than the games......

[SammiValentine]

Thanks Sammi. If he takes the Scotland job then the interviews will be at least more interesting than the games......

Worlds gone made. Whatever next, maybe a 31 year old bluenose from skem will get in the england squad for 1st time ever.

oh uhhmm.. ha. ha haaaaaaaa

[robertlouis]

Worlds gone made. Whatever next, maybe a 31 year old bluenose from skem will get in the england squad for 1st time ever.

oh uhhmm.. ha. ha haaaaaaaa

Just in case wee Gordie gets the Scotland job, I've polished my boots. You never know.... :dancing:

[robertlouis]

Worlds gone made. Whatever next, maybe a 31 year old bluenose from skem will get in the england squad for 1st time ever.

oh uhhmm.. ha. ha haaaaaaaa


To be fair to him, Osman had a very tidy game. Sterling looked impressive in patches and played a big part in Welbeck's goal. Gerrard showed that in his current position - thanks Roy! - England can at long last get the best out of him and that he probably has at least one big tournament left in him.

But the talking point of the game was Ibrahimovic's fourth goal for Sweden. Simply sensational - an overhead shot, from an angle, from all of 40 yards. If I hadn't seen it I wouldn't have believed it. Stupendous. I think it will be up on youtube very soon and it's well worth catching.

Oh yes, and Scotland beat......ahem, Luxembourg. You take what you can get.....

[SammiValentine]

no need to be fair to him -I didnt say he was bad :D I was in jest cos he is from same town as me and i must admit i find it a shame its taken so long to get a cap.

amazing goals by ibrahimovic yup (best overhead ive ever seen, easily).. hes always had a world class stigma abour him, amazing record etc but also fair to ask the question where was he in the summer england v sweden, when they needed something like that... shrug. hes always been a bit hot and cold - in great form at momemnt though he was good in champs league the other week for PSG.

[robertlouis]

no need to be fair to him -I didnt say he was bad :D I was in jest cos he is from same town as me and i must admit i find it a shame its taken so long to get a cap.

amazing goals by ibrahimovic yup (best overhead ive ever seen, easily).. hes always had a world class stigma abour him, amazing record etc but also fair to ask the question where was he in the summer england v sweden, when they needed something like that... shrug. hes always been a bit hot and cold - in great form at momemnt though he was good in champs league the other week for PSG.

Suarez for Man C, eh? Who got that one started? He'd cap a fine trio with Tevez and Balotelli.....

BTW Sammi, what's your take on Rodgers so far?

[VictoriaVeil]

all this talk makes me want to nail a goal(ie) from 40 yards out.. ahhhhh :)

[robertlouis]

all this talk makes me want to nail a goal(ie) from 40 yards out.. ahhhhh :)

Impressive knowledge of the beautiful game from a beautiful lady!

I'll give you a demonstration of my tackle from behind..... :dancing:

[SammiValentine]

Suarez for Man C, eh? Who got that one started? He'd cap a fine trio with Tevez and Balotelli.....

BTW Sammi, what's your take on Rodgers so far?

suarez? haha yea right :D


rodgers.. 2 dodgy decisions away from 5th. He needs a good two seasons to judge really. If we can be in the mix for 4th by end of this jan then great. I think it is a rather average premier league, aside from man city every team looks capable of dropping points against teams you least expect... so if we dont give up then who knows.

[beaufont]

Suarez is best staying at Liverpool where he is the top dog, if he left for City he would have Tevez,Aguero & Dzeko to contend with - looks like Balotelli will be leaving in January & not before time.......his ratio of good games/bad games is pretty low & if your a top team you cannot be carrying people in most games.

On another matter I wonder if Saurez will get away with that stamp yesterday?????

[robertlouis]

suarez? haha yea right :D


rodgers.. 2 dodgy decisions away from 5th. He needs a good two seasons to judge really. If we can be in the mix for 4th by end of this jan then great. I think it is a rather average premier league, aside from man city every team looks capable of dropping points against teams you least expect... so if we dont give up then who knows.

I agree that Rodgers should be given time. Let's hope that the fickle end of the Liverpool fans and the owners agree. He'll last longer than AVB at Spurs, that's for sure.

And this is so far the most open Premiership season for a while, and West Brom under Steve Clarke are in the current mix on merit, regardless of whether they'll be there next May. Man C have acquired Man U's ability to play like shite and still win, but they'll have a wobble.

This season it seems that anyone can beat anyone else, up to a point. Could be interesting, although I won't be surprised to see the usual suspects in the top three places at season's end. Fourth spot could be anyone's though.

[robertlouis]

Blimey! Rafa's back. At Stamford Bridge!


Where are you Sammi???

[Stavros]

Surely the irony of this appointment is that for all his success at Anfield, it was the relationship with the owners of the club that undermined his position? Liverpool were not a particularly good team then or now, but managed some spectacular results when it mattered -he never won the Premier League with this club. He now has less than a year in which to maintain Chelsea's position in Europe, with a squad that has talent but not much discipline, and an owner who can do what he wants, when he wants. The chatter, for what that's worth, is that Guardiola is not interested in Chelsea -if he is even interested in a UK club it must be Arsenal, and that would be an ingriguing appointment, given the view some perceptive United fans have, that Ferguson is most likley to be replaced by Solskjaer when the time comes.

But will Torres score on a regular basis? Will David Beckham finish his footballing career at Stamford Bridge? And weren't all these decisions supposed to be vetted by John Terry?

[SammiValentine]

Surely the irony of this appointment is that for all his success at Anfield, it was the relationship with the owners of the club that undermined his position? Liverpool were not a particularly good team then or now, but managed some spectacular results when it mattered -he never won the Premier League with this club. He now has less than a year in which to maintain Chelsea's position in Europe, with a squad that has talent but not much discipline, and an owner who can do what he wants, when he wants. The chatter, for what that's worth, is that Guardiola is not interested in Chelsea -if he is even interested in a UK club it must be Arsenal, and that would be an ingriguing appointment, given the view some perceptive United fans have, that Ferguson is most likley to be replaced by Solskjaer when the time comes.

But will Torres score on a regular basis? Will David Beckham finish his footballing career at Stamford Bridge? And weren't all these decisions supposed to be vetted by John Terry?

I will refrain from calling you an idiot but the liverpool team of 08/09 that came 2nd in prem, got the most points in our history, scored most goals in a season for us, beat real madrid, inter milan (home and away), beat man utd 4-1 away etc etc............ was an extremely good team. He turned a mid table side into european cup winners + top4 consistants. Your a mental if you think liverpool was not a good team under his reign.

[SammiValentine]

Blimey! Rafa's back. At Stamford Bridge!


Where are you Sammi???

gutted but cant blame the fella. He was patient and we didnt ask him back, he would of walked over broken glass to come back to anfield. Maybe this is partly to wind up Ian Ayre - I would like to think so :)

In a fantasy world I hope he does well, then at the end of the season sacked chelsea off and came home :D

Like i have said in a previous post the premier league has been less of a force without mourhino and rafa. I also said I expected rafa to be back (I was hoping liverpool) and mourhinio at man city by next season.

[Stavros]

I will refrain from calling you an idiot but the liverpool team of 08/09 that came 2nd in prem, got the most points in our history, scored most goals in a season for us, beat real madrid, inter milan (home and away), beat man utd 4-1 away etc etc............ was an extremely good team. He turned a mid table side into european cup winners + top4 consistants. Your a mental if you think liverpool was not a good team under his reign.

But Liverpool have never won the Premier League title, and last won the old First Division title in 1990; ok so they were better than I suggested, but who remembers the runners up?

[SammiValentine]

But Liverpool have never won the Premier League title, and last won the old First Division title in 1990; ok so they were better than I suggested, but who remembers the runners up?

Have not won the league but you only need to look at what we have won since 2000 to see that "not a particuarly good team" is a really, really silly comment :) It only rings true for the last couple of seasons and even when so poor we still get into domestic finals and a uefa semi.

Chelsea fans certainly remember Mr Benetiz regardless of him winning the prem or not. He was the man who stopped Mourhinos best (2005 and 2007) from getting to a champions league final, with a team of underdogs -over two legs.

[Stavros]

Have not won the league but you only need to look at what we have won since 2000 to see that "not a particuarly good team" is a really, really silly comment :) It only rings true for the last couple of seasons and even when so poor we still get into domestic finals and a uefa semi.

Chelsea fans certainly remember Mr Benetiz regardless of him winning the prem or not. He was the man who stopped Mourhinos best (2005 and 2007) from getting to a champions league final, with a team of underdogs -over two legs.

Ok Sammi I concede, it was a comment made without much reflection; the truth is I can't recall that many Liverpool games under Benitez other than the astonishing night in Istanbul, one of the most memorable. My recollection of his last phase in charge does not shine much either; this could be because I am forgetting a lot of things these days (I went to the shops without my wallet yesterday, for example) or the 'halo effect' -I recalll so many outstanding games from Liverpool in the 1970s and 1980s that their more recent performances seem below par by comparison, which may not be fair.

I therefore concede you are right, and that I was wrong.

[robertlouis]

More unsavoury moments in the Premiership over the weekend. Disgraceful antisemitic chants and worse from West Ham fans at Spurs and the constant booing - and worse again - of Benitez' first game in charge of Chelsea.

Taking the Spurs' game first, yes, it's possible that some of the people making the obscene remarks don't fully understand the seriousness of what they're saying, but the holocaust should never be trivialised like that. And of course, Spurs fans, whether Jewish or Gentile, wear the "Yid" label like a perverse badge of pride, but let's hope that the FA's recently found balls mean that they will deal as harshly as possible and through the courts with those responsible.

As for Chelsea, well, apart from those who are old enough to remember the thin and pre-Abramovich times, they've always seemed to reflect the nastiness of their club and, sadly, some of their stars - Messrs Terry and Cole stand out, but there have been others, like Jody Morris too. What was particularly sad yesterday was that their prolonged booing drowned out an attempt at decency, a minute's applause for the great Dave Sexton, the man who managed them brilliantly in the 70s.

Abramovich was there to witness it all. He fired De Matteo, he appointed Benitez, he's hired and fired nine other managers in his ten years as owner. Watching and listening to that disgrace yesterday, it would take a hard man - which he undoubtedly is - not to turn around, take his money out, see the club go to the wall and then tell those ungrateful and graceless bastards - *ahem*, I'll get to the fans in a minute - and tell them to fuck off with their nastiness and pettily short memories.

What goes on on the park can be beautiful and breathtaking, but sadly all too often what emanates from the terraces is brutish, vile, and hurtful. A reflection of Call Me Dave's "Big Society", perhaps.

Football stinks.

[Stavros]

To which one would have to add the vicious attack on Spurs fans in Rome by AS Roma fans (not Lazio), part of an under-current of 'paramilitary' "football supporters" in Europe. It is an odd fact of history that Spurs initially gained their Jewish following because East End Jews found it easier to travel on the railway to White Hart Lane, yet Arsenal has had roughly an equal proportion of Jewish fans, and one of the most fervent admirers of Manchester City, author Colin Shindler is Jewish. I think the use of the word 'Yid' is offensive in most contexts,regarless of what some Jews call each other be it in jest or anger. Here is an interesting article on this topic.
http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/does-your-rabbi-know-youre-here-the-truth-about-jewish-football-fans/

[robertlouis]

Coming from a city (Glasgow) where religion and football affiliation and idnetity have for generations been poisonously intertwined, I find the relatively recent public highlighting of Tottenham fans' complex identification with Judaism very interesting.

That said, when I first moved south, my football ground of choice was the Boleyn Ground, simply because West Ham in the 80s seemed to play a very watchable style of football, under the likes of purist managers like Ron Greenwood and John Lyall. There was always an undercurrent of hostility when London rivals visited, but in those days the real vitriol seemed to be reserved for Chelsea, because of their more upmarket fans by comparison with West Ham's east end working class roots. But I never heard the kind of thing that's spewed out on the terraces these days.

Having also lived in a number of cities on the European mainland in Germany, France, Belgium and the Netherlands, fan enmity was generally low-key, except when Ajax played Feyenoord, or Liege vs Anderlecht. But the Dutch fans loathe the Germans - hangover from the war.

[nelly07]

More unsavoury moments in the Premiership over the weekend. Disgraceful antisemitic chants and worse from West Ham fans at Spurs and the constant booing - and worse again - of Benitez' first game in charge of Chelsea.

Taking the Spurs' game first, yes, it's possible that some of the people making the obscene remarks don't fully understand the seriousness of what they're saying, but the holocaust should never be trivialised like that. And of course, Spurs fans, whether Jewish or Gentile, wear the "Yid" label like a perverse badge of pride, but let's hope that the FA's recently found balls mean that they will deal as harshly as possible and through the courts with those responsible.

As for Chelsea, well, apart from those who are old enough to remember the thin and pre-Abramovich times, they've always seemed to reflect the nastiness of their club and, sadly, some of their stars - Messrs Terry and Cole stand out, but there have been others, like Jody Morris too. What was particularly sad yesterday was that their prolonged booing drowned out an attempt at decency, a minute's applause for the great Dave Sexton, the man who managed them brilliantly in the 70s.

Abramovich was there to witness it all. He fired De Matteo, he appointed Benitez, he's hired and fired nine other managers in his ten years as owner. Watching and listening to that disgrace yesterday, it would take a hard man - which he undoubtedly is - not to turn around, take his money out, see the club go to the wall and then tell those ungrateful and graceless bastards - *ahem*, I'll get to the fans in a minute - and tell them to fuck off with their nastiness and pettily short memories.

What goes on on the park can be beautiful and breathtaking, but sadly all too often what emanates from the terraces is brutish, vile, and hurtful. A reflection of Call Me Dave's "Big Society", perhaps.

Football stinks.

Bullshit with an agenda. The boo's for Rafa were in protest at the club removing a legend and installin someone who belittled the club over and above what most managers said in battle.

Also a vent at the very same thing which everyone and his dog loves to bang on about, romans mismanagement, yet when fans do the decent thing with the only power they have left, they are ostracised.

As soon as Sextons minute was anounced the whole stadium went quiet aand gave him the respect he deserves. The speed and deliberance of the change was one of my proudest moments in the stands.

And finally to say that is worse than anti semetic chanting exposes you completely. Yea i'm sure you'd say plently to us fans and to our faces, i'm one and happy to meet for you to share your views.

Prick. The worst kind, a santinmonious, holier than tho better than all Prick.

[SammiValentine]

Bullshit with an agenda. The boo's for Rafa were in protest at the club removing a legend and installin someone who belittled the club over and above what most managers said in battle.

Also a vent at the very same thing which everyone and his dog loves to bang on about, romans mismanagement, yet when fans do the decent thing with the only power they have left, they are ostracised.



Rafa implied drogba dived a lot, at the time he was perfectly correct. He also said we dont need to hand out plastic flags to create an atmosphere, this was prior to a champs league semi and also correct.

Mourinho also made some choice comments particualry before 2005 semi, not to mention walking down the wing at cardiff, towards the liverpool end, making sssh gestures.. . Its all tit for tat the difference being rafa is now your manager. The question is why is he? We all know the answer, and apparently the only thing you can do about it is boo. Fair enough.

I can totally appreciate why yous dont want Rafa, i would of been mortified if we ever had Mourinho or Drogba at anfield after chelsea etc. Regardless of how good they are at what they do.

[Stavros]

Premier League titles, FA Cups, Champions league finals and a win, all down to 'Roman's mismanagement'? I am no fan of Chelsea, but credit where its due, the team comprised some of the best players we have seen -Czech must surely be one of the best goalkeepers in the world- if they are unable to beat West Ham it may be due more to a decline of the team that used to win everything through age -the days when Terry, Lampard and Cole could control a game are over and if Benitez stays long enough to hold to his job -which must be a doubt if Chelsea slip out of the top 4- he has to spend Roman's millions on new players and start all over again. But will Benitez still be there by the New Year? United can still win matches even when they go behind, scraping out results like that often wins titles. As usual, they are still the team to beat.

[JenniferParisHusband]

I can totally appreciate why yous dont want Rafa, i would of been mortified if we ever had Mourinho or Drogba at anfield after chelsea etc. Regardless of how good they are at what they do.

I totally agree. I've thought so little of Drogba over the years, that if he ever put on the red and played at Anfield, I'd boo the man every time he touched the ball until they drove him out of town.

As for Rafa, will be intersting to see the fan reaction at Anfield the next time he's there. He got us the European Cup, and I appreciate that. But Chelsea? I guess it's a job, but it's almost like going to ManU or Everton. Not sure how I'll react when I'm watching it.




Premier League titles, FA Cups, Champions league finals and a win, all down to 'Roman's mismanagement'? I am no fan of Chelsea, but credit where its due, the team comprised some of the best players we have seen -Czech must surely be one of the best goalkeepers in the world- if they are unable to beat West Ham it may be due more to a decline of the team that used to win everything through age -the days when Terry, Lampard and Cole could control a game are over and if Benitez stays long enough to hold to his job -which must be a doubt if Chelsea slip out of the top 4- he has to spend Roman's millions on new players and start all over again. But will Benitez still be there by the New Year? United can still win matches even when they go behind, scraping out results like that often wins titles. As usual, they are still the team to beat.

If Pep does decide to take the job, Benitez is gone. But I don't think Pep Guardiola is that stupid. I give Rafa at least two years in the job before Roman cans him.

[Stavros]

Two YEARS? If this run of form continues more like two months! According to today's Daily Telegraph Mourinho is on the way out in Madrid, could he conceivably be lured back to London? The other problem is that like Real Madrid, the managerial position at Chelsea is so delicate, so prone to instant gratification or dismissal that it is unlikely to attract to the right kind of manager, as RA needs results NOW, not in five years time. That's no way to build a football club. It will be interesting to see is Czech considers its time to move somewhere else to end his career, with the other old boys on the verge of retirement, this club is facing a difficult season, and Benitez is not good enough to do anything about it, but as I say, by the New Year he will probably be looking for a new job. Martin O'Neill is not producing results at Sunderland, could he be the man for the Blues?

[robertlouis]

Survival chances for managers at Stamford Bridge are no better than fighter pilots on the western front. Only a cynic with an empty wallet (Rafa?) would knowingly take the job on.

[robertlouis]

I should keep my powder dry till tonight, but barring miracles it's quite likely that only Man U and Arsenal will still be in the Champions League after tonight's matches. Of course I hope that Chelsea and especially Celtic get through, but it does seem to confirm a sliding standard in the Premiership this season - it hasn't been just the titans of Europe who've given the English clubs a beating, and in the Premiership itself, West Brom, Swansea and Norwich are proving yet again that on their day they can outmatch the big names. Makes for a more uncertain and probably more interesting time, but no-one's unbeatable any more.

[Stavros]

That may be because United, Chelsea and Arsenal are teams in transition -United's defence can no longer rely on Vidic and Ferdinand, Chelsea's tightly woven team is unravelling as their key players get old, Arsenal has shed some of its key playmakers and can't seem to gel around the new boys, and both Arsenal and United have erratic goalkeepers. West Brom may now begin their slide down the table after early season successes, the question marks are over the uneven performances of Everton, Spurs and Newcastle. It will be a pity if Bale recovers from his hamstring and leaves for Spain in the New Year, unless Ferguson can swap him for Ashley Young, and entice Reina from Liverpool where his talents are wasted. I can't work out what is going on at any one time in Manchester City, the bizarre thing is that Mancini looks like an Italian woman I used to know, its really rather unsettling...maybe he should get a hair cut...?

[robertlouis]

Never mind a' thon pish! Congratulations to Celtic! While the rest of the UK teams in the Champions League were underachieving or huffing and puffing to the next stage, Celtic's qualification is remarkable by any standard. Well done to Neil Lennon and his team.

[SammiValentine]

lol at reina in a manc shirt. last transfer either way was in the 60's. Will not happen. tell us another... :)

[Stavros]

lol at reina in a manc shirt. last transfer either way was in the 60's. Will not happen. tell us another... :)

Think football, think Homeland...meanwhile, AC Milan's President, Silvery Berlusconi's interest in Balotelli has been dismissed by the latter's agent because: Balotelli is as valuable as the Mona Lisa...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-city/9724958/Mario-Balotellis-agent-believes-Manchester-City-player-is-as-valuable-as-the-Mona-Lisa.html

[robertlouis]

Think football, think Homeland...meanwhile, AC Milan's President, Silvery Berlusconi's interest in Balotelli has been dismissed by the latter's agent because: Balotelli is as valuable as the Mona Lisa...



That has to be either Silvio or Slippery, Stavros....

And according to Thursday's Guardian, Reina has lost weight and Rodgers has told him that he remains a big part of his rebuilding programme.

At his best a few years back, Reina was not only a great shot-stopper, but also had tremendous vision - his distribution could turn defence into attack within seconds, and he was the best at that aspect of the game since Schmeichel. If he gets back to that standard Liverpool will have more than just a reliable keeper.

And if Rodgers is able to buy one proven striker to partner Suarez plus a younger lad on a fast track - Jordan Rhodes? - then top four would still be achievable. Lucas's return as the anchor in midfield should make a big difference too.

[robertlouis]

Arsenal knocked out of the League Cup tonight by Bradford from League Two.

How long before Wenger moves "upstairs" permanently at the Emirates?

[Stavros]

Not sure about that, if Wenger had any sense he would have fielded a junior side earlier in the campaign to get defeated and so avoid taking part in this pointless cup competition -the FA Cup isn't that much of a big deal for the top Premier League clubs these days either, but to have two cup competitions is a waste of human resources. Winning the League and the Champions League is all that matters -harsh, but true. And who is to say Arsenal won't be back in the top four by the end of the season? And even more pertinent, who would Arsenal want to take over given that they expect their managers to stay put for at least a decade?

[robertlouis]

Not sure about that, if Wenger had any sense he would have fielded a junior side earlier in the campaign to get defeated and so avoid taking part in this pointless cup competition -the FA Cup isn't that much of a big deal for the top Premier League clubs these days either, but to have two cup competitions is a waste of human resources. Winning the League and the Champions League is all that matters -harsh, but true. And who is to say Arsenal won't be back in the top four by the end of the season? And even more pertinent, who would Arsenal want to take over given that they expect their managers to stay put for at least a decade?

Given the traditions of both clubs, Barcelona's former manager, Pep Guardiola seems to me a far better cultural, stylistic and personal fit with Arsenal than with Chelsea and their monomaniacal Russian owner, where he knows that even he could be out of the door within months.

He would embrace Arsenal's footballing and management traditions and to my mind would be the best and most obvious successor to Wenger. If it isn't about money, he should go to the Emirates.

I'm by no means an Arsenal fan, by the way - my Premiership loyalties, such as they are, lie with the red half of Merseyside. It just seems the right move for all concerned.

[robertlouis]

Right, we've reached Christmas and Man Utd have a seven point lead. They lost an eight point lead in the run in last season and continue to look ludicrously vulnerable at the back.

However, unless something unforeseen develops in the second half of the season, the title race looks like being fought out between Mosside and Salford again, with Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and possibly Everton in the mix for the other two Champions League places. Liverpool will be below that group this season, even with Sturridge and another striker.

As for this season's Champions' League, any bets on any of the remaining British clubs surviving beyond the round of sixteen?

[Stavros]

On present performance and past trends, I expect Manchester United, Manchester City, Arsenal and Chelsea to be in the top four at the end of the season, they have the largest squads and can therefore sustain injuries to key players without losing games. Everton, Tottenham Hotspur on recent form will fall away toward the end of the season. It would be nice to see Swansea, West Brom or Norwich climb into the upper reaches as they play well as teams and like Blackpool of a season or so ago are great entertainers, one can hardly say that of Stoke.

Liverpool are a mediocre team and will find it hard to climb out of the middle table where they currently belong. It looks like Harry Redknapp will have to buy some startlingly good players if QPR are to emerge from the depths of relegation, though I used to live near their ground and could never understand why the club exists and have believed for some years that it should be wound up as a useless cause. For personal reasons, my dreams will come true if Southampton and Aston Villa are relegated along with QPR. Boring, I know, but it is the money that buys large and talented squads and there isn't much we can do about it.

Walcott is improving as a player, along with Gareth Bale he is now one of the finest young players in the country, will they be tempted to move in the New Year or at the end of the season?

Manchester United ought to get to the semi-finals of the Champions League, the lash with Real Madrid is fascinating because Real are in their usual turmoil with divisions in the dressing room, conflicts between the manager and the owners, and so on and so forth. But after all the hype, a 0-0 draw would not be ruled out on both occasions, and on that basis Real would win a penalty shoot-out. Does anyone still fancy Barcelona?

[JenniferParisHusband]

Liverpool can climb, if they get some decent transfers in the Jan window who can come in immediately and mesh with the squad. As they stand now, yeah, we're mediocre. Nothing some new blood can't fix though.

Don't fancy Barcelona, but I think Real Madrid is the bigger question. They have the talent and ability to come out and beat Man U 3-0, if they get their shit together. Or can lose 4 or 5-0 if things have really come as unravelled as recent stories indicate. I don't think it will be 0-0 though.

[robertlouis]

Interesting.

Two league cup quarter finals. Bradford 3, Aston Villa 1; Chelsea 0, Swansea 2.

Chelsea and Villa both put out pretty much full-strength teams, both lost. Hmmm.....

[beaufont]

love to see a League Cup final with none of the BIG 4 involved

Amazing effort by Bradford City and cannot seriously see Villa overturning that scoreline, at the moment Villa just don't look like a Premier league side

[robertlouis]

The premiership is now just a two-horse race between the Manchester clubs.

Discuss.

[Stavros]

If this is indeed the case, why is it?

In the case of Manchester United, the argument will be based on the institutional development of the club, from its apparently benign owners, to the front and backroom staff who, one assumes, have been as enduring as the famous manager. What may not be apparent is the quality of the backroom staff, who must provide daily support to mostly young men whose minds, when not on the game, are focused on potentially destructive modes of behaviour. I seem to recall that Ferguson imposed a ban on Ryan Giggs giving interviews to the press for years. His dominant, possibly dictatorial character suggests this may be the best way to run a dressing room, but even a manager can't control what happens on the field of play, and while Ferguson has signed some useless players over the years, he has on the other hand recruited some outstanding players, creating strong defence, midfield and attacking formations -most people agree that the current weaknesses in United are the lack of a midfield bandmaster, and an ageing defence. But like Arsenal, they have well-established structures, just as Liverpool used to have, and it is noticeable that amongst Liverpool's many problems, the chaos in the boardroom of recent years has been damaging to the club.

Is it unfair to argue that City have bought their way to success? Initially this may have been true, but over the last few years I think the players have gelled as a team, and that the strengths of the defence and midfield are well-balanced with a formidable attacking force; the players seem now to understand each others strengths and will challenge United to the last minute of the last day. Unless discipline deserts them -Tevez seems to have mellowed in recent years, but Balotelli seems incapable of discipline, and Aguero wants to leave. In spite of this success, they have failed miserably in the premier European competition.

Both clubs are in the top quartile of European clubs, but are they as good as Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Inter, and AC Milan?

There was a time when Liverpool were the masters of Europe -it is possible that the teams fielded in the 1970s and 1980s were amongst the best teams ever assembled, anywhere -the eviction of this team from European competition after Heysel almost certainly robbed them of two or three more European titles. The current team is pathetic in comparison; and it remains to be seen if an ageing Chelsea team is in transition or decline. That they are in the position in the table they occupy is largely due to the mediocre quality of English football clubs.

[Stavros]

Will Hutton in The Guardian this week produced a stinging critique of football in the UK, which he compares unfavourably with Germany -the article was written before Pep Guardiola was confirmed as the next manager of Bayern Munich.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/13/football-everything-bad-about-britain?INTCMP=SRCH

Meanwhile Rafa Benitez may be Chelsea's 'Interim Manager' but it hasn't stopped the Club from seeking his replacement -presumably on the basis he is going to be a total flop or do something to annoy Mr Abramovich...but it seems their first choice, Jurgen Klopp isn't interested, so the list now includes David Moyes and Michael Laudrup. Question is, money aside, who wants this job?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/9809978/Chelsea-face-Jurgen-Klopp-snub-as-club-line-up-Joachim-Low-David-Moyes-and-Michael-Laudrup-as-a-plan-B.html

[JenniferParisHusband]

If this is indeed the case, why is it?

In the case of Manchester United, the argument will be based on the institutional development of the club, from its apparently benign owners, to the front and backroom staff who, one assumes, have been as enduring as the famous manager. What may not be apparent is the quality of the backroom staff, who must provide daily support to mostly young men whose minds, when not on the game, are focused on potentially destructive modes of behaviour. I seem to recall that Ferguson imposed a ban on Ryan Giggs giving interviews to the press for years. His dominant, possibly dictatorial character suggests this may be the best way to run a dressing room, but even a manager can't control what happens on the field of play, and while Ferguson has signed some useless players over the years, he has on the other hand recruited some outstanding players, creating strong defence, midfield and attacking formations -most people agree that the current weaknesses in United are the lack of a midfield bandmaster, and an ageing defence. But like Arsenal, they have well-established structures, just as Liverpool used to have, and it is noticeable that amongst Liverpool's many problems, the chaos in the boardroom of recent years has been damaging to the club.

Is it unfair to argue that City have bought their way to success? Initially this may have been true, but over the last few years I think the players have gelled as a team, and that the strengths of the defence and midfield are well-balanced with a formidable attacking force; the players seem now to understand each others strengths and will challenge United to the last minute of the last day. Unless discipline deserts them -Tevez seems to have mellowed in recent years, but Balotelli seems incapable of discipline, and Aguero wants to leave. In spite of this success, they have failed miserably in the premier European competition.

Both clubs are in the top quartile of European clubs, but are they as good as Bayern Munich, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Inter, and AC Milan?

There was a time when Liverpool were the masters of Europe -it is possible that the teams fielded in the 1970s and 1980s were amongst the best teams ever assembled, anywhere -the eviction of this team from European competition after Heysel almost certainly robbed them of two or three more European titles. The current team is pathetic in comparison; and it remains to be seen if an ageing Chelsea team is in transition or decline. That they are in the position in the table they occupy is largely due to the mediocre quality of English football clubs.

I don't know if it's that unfair to say City have bought there way to success, yeah there had to be some building before the right pieces were in place, but it was a pretty quick building process, and not a lot of development from within.

Those other Manky bastards, they definitely paid their way up. I'm still angry that Van Persie ended up there. But I guess if you want to win cups, that's one of your best bets in England.

Heysel still pisses me off. I do believe it robbed us of at least two European titles, and has a lingering effect on players coming to Liverpool, and money to build championship teams. FSG is frakking cheap. There is a lot of investment that could be made now for long term success, both in on the field dollars and off. This window being a prime example. While Sturridge looked good at times, he's already being mis-managed in games, and shows a lack of killer instinct as he gets lazy after scoring once. I'd still rather have had Jordan Rhodes, some added quality in the left back, and some additional depth on the wings. Instead, they got one player (so far.) Nice going ya cheap bastards!

Off the field, they should have have an academy system like Barca has had for ages. Anfield sells out all the time, the "new" stadium should have been done by now, or the rebuild of Anfield. And seriously, who let BR pick up the transfers he did in the summer window without propper scouting? Horrible organization.

[robertlouis]

A very interesting FA cup weekend. The Premiership clubs by and large put out fairly strong teams and respected their lower league opponents, but the results were frankly even more astonishing than anyone expected. Luton beat Norwich, Oldham beat Liverpool, Leeds beat Tottenham, MK Dons thrashed QPR and Chelsea scraped a draw at lowly Brentford. Other top tier clubs like Wigan and Everton just scraped through by the odd goal.

Is the gulf not as wide as it used to be or is the premiership now as mediocre as it's ever been?

[Stavros]

Strong teams? Is that what you would call the Liverpool team? The simple truth is that England and Wales cannot justify two cup competitions, and the FA Cup which used to be the climax of the season, is now just another game before the main event, the final of the Champions League. The Premier League and the Champions League are the major competitions, partly because the football tends to be superior, but primarily because of the money. I used to watch the FA Cup every year but in recent years it has slipped off the radar, the magic has gone. It isn't the mediocrity of football, it is the overwhelming influence of money and TV rights. In a year or so I expect the FA Cup will be relegated to Sky.

[robertlouis]

Arsenal exited the FA Cup on Saturday against Blackburn, having succumbed earlier in the season to Bradford in the League Cup.

They are not going to win the champions' league either and are well out of the race for the Premiership.

Over his time at Arsenal, Arsene Wenger has arguably had a more profound and positive effect on players' attitudes, fitness etc than any other manager. He has built a series of successful teams which have often been a joy to watch, only surpassed in that sense by Fergie.

However, this is going to be the Gunners' eighth season without a trophy. Will he go at the end of the season or will he have to be pushed?

[Stavros]

The FA Cup isn't important, and they can still win the Champions League -why not? Were Chelsea expected to win or lose against Barcelona last season?

[robertlouis]

The FA Cup isn't important, and they can still win the Champions League -why not? Were Chelsea expected to win or lose against Barcelona last season?

They have a very tough tie against Bayern, who are flying in the Bundesliga and with Guardiola at the helm from next season could well become a real force in Europe.

And if they do lose the tie, what then?

[robertlouis]

They have a very tough tie against Bayern, who are flying in the Bundesliga and with Guardiola at the helm from next season could well become a real force in Europe.

And if they do lose the tie, what then?

And after a 3-1 defeat at home, it can't last beyond the end of the season.

BTW, I've seen a few games at the Allianz in Munchen when visiting the Bavarian end of the family. Beautiful stadium, great transport links, well-behaved fans, the best bratwurst ever, and less than half the price of the average Premiership game. Plus the club is largely owned by its fans. What's not to like and admire? No wonder Guardiola chose them over the bloated jokes that most English clubs have become.

[Stavros]

Dismal performance from Arsena, where was the motivation, any sense of team work? A few talented players who might get lucky can't win at this level. Wenger did amazing things at Arsenal who used to be the most boring team to watch; I don't know how much the obsession in the board room with money determines things but he has let great players go and not replaced them with equivalent talent -he will last to the end of this season and maybe still be in the top four, but I think even he now feels his career in London is in its twilight. Unless Bayern get complacent and sloppy, and Walcott wrecks their dream in the next match...Sagna was useless last night, every move predictable and unproductive.

[robertlouis]

Dismal performance from Arsena, where was the motivation, any sense of team work? A few talented players who might get lucky can't win at this level. Wenger did amazing things at Arsenal who used to be the most boring team to watch; I don't know how much the obsession in the board room with money determines things but he has let great players go and not replaced them with equivalent talent -he will last to the end of this season and maybe still be in the top four, but I think even he now feels his career in London is in its twilight. Unless Bayern get complacent and sloppy, and Walcott wrecks their dream in the next match...Sagna was useless last night, every move predictable and unproductive.


Unless Tottenham's bubble bursts, and with Benitez' meltdown last night in mind, I'd say Spurs are strong candidates for 3rd place or perhaps one higher. Chelsea and Arsenal will be scrapping for the final CL place, but both, despite their attractive build play, look to be in inexorable decline.

It won't happen this season, but there could be a two-pronged challenge from Merseyside next season. Interesting to see what happens with Swansea too. Let's hope that Laudrup stays.

[Stavros]

Yes, and no. Spurs have a habit of losing form towards the end of the season, Arsenal ought to be a safer bet but there seem to be weaknesses in the team that they have either not had in recent years, or been able to deal with as other clubs failed -Chelsea seem strong enough for 3rd but who knows with the poisoned atmosphere if form will also fall? Normally, the usual four would be safe, with Spurs and Everton failing to get their feet in Europe. What Benitez could have said is that every manager in Chelsea is an interim manager, and that has been their problem -though it hasn't stopped them winnning things...and if Spurs sell Bale, where do they go after that? And where does Bale want to go -Madrid? The shopkeeper up the road from thinks he may go to Arsenal!!

[robertlouis]

Yes, and no. Spurs have a habit of losing form towards the end of the season, Arsenal ought to be a safer bet but there seem to be weaknesses in the team that they have either not had in recent years, or been able to deal with as other clubs failed -Chelsea seem strong enough for 3rd but who knows with the poisoned atmosphere if form will also fall? Normally, the usual four would be safe, with Spurs and Everton failing to get their feet in Europe. What Benitez could have said is that every manager in Chelsea is an interim manager, and that has been their problem -though it hasn't stopped them winnning things...and if Spurs sell Bale, where do they go after that? And where does Bale want to go -Madrid? The shopkeeper up the road from thinks he may go to Arsenal!!

Does your shopkeeper look like this?

[Stavros]

You will be pleased to know that I will not be sharing my kebabs with you...and wass all that Nani about being sent off in the big game on the telly, peeps? That ref don't get my kebabs either.

[robertlouis]

You will be pleased to know that I will not be sharing my kebabs with you...and wass all that Nani about being sent off in the big game on the telly, peeps? That ref don't get my kebabs either.

Never a red card. The referee ruined what had been up till then an intriguing and thoroughly enthralling game of football.

Mourinho, to his credit, told Ferguson that it wasn't.

[Stavros]

The word in the press today is that not selecting Rooney from the start was Ferguson's way of showing him the door. Van Persie is the key vehicle up front, and while Ferguson had a point about the role he assigned to Welbeck and Giggs, I think it was a mistake as MU needed two clear goals to be safe. The red card was, technically correct as the rules do not mention intent as a factor, but most referees seeing the incident would give a yellow -the same referee last season sent off John Terry in the semi-final although he deserved that one. The Red Card changed the balance of the teams, MU can get away with 10-men against Reading or a minor side, but not Real. But maybe they would have won anyway, who knows?

[SammiValentine]

Never a red card. The referee ruined what had been up till then an intriguing and thoroughly enthralling game of football.

Mourinho, to his credit, told Ferguson that it wasn't.

What about the perfectly legal madrid away goal he disallowed?? People need to get over it, theyre out :) Ha!!

Red card was harsh but they have had more than their fair share of luck and decisions going their way ........

hahahahhaahah

[SammiValentine]

p.s imagine the media witch hunt if Rafa behaved in the manner of Fergsuon did, again, for the umpteenth time.... hahaha.

The media has been licking Fergusons old wrinkley hoop for far to long..........

[SammiValentine]

The word in the press today is that not selecting Rooney from the start was Ferguson's way of showing him the door. Van Persie is the key vehicle up front, and while Ferguson had a point about the role he assigned to Welbeck and Giggs, I think it was a mistake as MU needed two clear goals to be safe. The red card was, technically correct as the rules do not mention intent as a factor, but most referees seeing the incident would give a yellow -the same referee last season sent off John Terry in the semi-final although he deserved that one. The Red Card changed the balance of the teams, MU can get away with 10-men against Reading or a minor side, but not Real. But maybe they would have won anyway, who knows?

Most refs wouldnt even give a yellow at Old trafford for that, or even book arbeola for diving.... Infact they would then add on a few extra minutes for some bonus squeeky bum time, then giggs would chase the ref for an hour or so moaning like the whiney welsh tw... he is, (he could possibly be after the refs wifes phone number though, shrug) Anyway he would moan like an old woman till arbeola gets a 2nd yellow , which would be probably for touching rios bum / licking vidics nipple at a corner or having not adddresed fergsuon with proper title "Sir" - in the tunnel before kick off.

Its a funny old game.

[robertlouis]

p.s imagine the media witch hunt if Rafa behaved in the manner of Fergsuon did, again, for the umpteenth time.... hahaha.

The media has been licking Fergusons old wrinkley hoop for far to long..........

Crikey Sammi, the sooner they rebuild the checkpoint on the East Lancs Road, the safer we'll all be lol.

[Stavros]

Most refs wouldnt even give a yellow at Old trafford for that, or even book arbeola for diving.... Infact they would then add on a few extra minutes for some bonus squeeky bum time, then giggs would chase the ref for an hour or so moaning like the whiney welsh tw... he is, (he could possibly be after the refs wifes phone number though, shrug) Anyway he would moan like an old woman till arbeola gets a 2nd yellow , which would be probably for touching rios bum / licking vidics nipple at a corner or having not adddresed fergsuon with proper title "Sir" - in the tunnel before kick off.

Its a funny old game.

Hmmm Sammi, you clearly know more about the behaviour of footballers (on and off the pitch) than an armchair pundit like me...perhaps you know even more about Vidic's nipples than Ryan?

[robertlouis]

Hmmm Sammi, you clearly know more about the behaviour of footballers (on and off the pitch) than an armchair pundit like me...perhaps you know even more about Vidic's nipples than Ryan?

Yes, I had similar thoughts Stavros. Maybe Sammi's a WAG, but keeps it quiet.

[robertlouis]

Barcelona 4, AC Milan 0. Exhilarating, glorious football. Barca still have it.

I'd like to see a Barca vs Bayern final. Fingers crossed.

[Stavros]

There are times when Messi seems to be on a different level; it is odd that he never seems to shine with Argentina, and can have moments of indifference; yet, when he is acutely aware of the possibilities, he can make a goal out of nothing, and that is the true mark of genius. Yet, this is not a patch on the AC Milan's teams of the 80s and 90s. Weird hairdos and repulsive tattoos may be the order of the day, but when they lose they do look stupid.

[robertlouis]

UK interest in the Champions League is over, Man Utd have won the Premiership, the rest are scrabbling for scraps and the main residual interest is the dog eat dog battles at the bottom.

Football's all a bit boring, isn't it?

Now rugby, on the other hand..... Are you listening, Ms Valentine?

[robertlouis]

World cup qualifiers. Fuck. This is the worst Scotland team since Argentina in 1978.

Need scotch. Lots of it.

[Stavros]

If you think Scotland has problems what do you think of an England captain who can say 'we didn't play in the second half' but can't explain why. Complacency is the answer, can't be bothered a possible alternative. He himself gave the ball away on numerous occasions, Michael Carrick, whose through balls when they work can turn games, was asleep for most of the game, Milner is ineffective, Lescott also gave the ball away several times, as did Joe Hart who like so many goalkeepers kicks the ball upfield with no idea who is going to be on the end of it, and its usually the opposition. Walcott would have made a difference on the right in the first half, but other than Rooney, who is going to score goals on a regular basis for this team? I think it is now 50/50 that England will qualify for Brasil. A game of football lasts at least 90 minutes and until the England team fights for every second the results will be at best average, at worst, embarrassing.

[SammiValentine]

................. roy hodgson?

[Stavros]

A pithy point, Ms Valentine. Did he even show up in the dressing room? Any chance of Gareth Bale changing his nationality?

[robertlouis]

If you think Scotland has problems what do you think of an England captain who can say 'we didn't play in the second half' but can't explain why. Complacency is the answer, can't be bothered a possible alternative. He himself gave the ball away on numerous occasions, Michael Carrick, whose through balls when they work can turn games, was asleep for most of the game, Milner is ineffective, Lescott also gave the ball away several times, as did Joe Hart who like so many goalkeepers kicks the ball upfield with no idea who is going to be on the end of it, and its usually the opposition. Walcott would have made a difference on the right in the first half, but other than Rooney, who is going to score goals on a regular basis for this team? I think it is now 50/50 that England will qualify for Brasil. A game of football lasts at least 90 minutes and until the England team fights for every second the results will be at best average, at worst, embarrassing.

Perspective, dear boy. England is now the only home country with any prospect of getting to the world cup finals (where they will qualify, get to the quarter-finals and screw up on the penalty shoot-out as usual.....)

Scotland haven't qualified for anything since 1998 and are in danger of being amongst the lowest seeded teams for Euro 2016. If Gerrard or indeed almost any of the England squad put a "Mac" in front of their name I'd snap them up in a heartbeat.

England? Problems? You don't know you're born.

[Stavros]

I am alive and know it, och aye. Perhaps it is about attitude. Lawton I think it is in today's Independent, suggests that the World Cup isn't that compelling for the English players, just another non-club game they have to deal with. He claims that the English Premier League has the fewest home-born players in its clubs in Europe -to which one might add, where are the great Scottish players? They used to come south every year almost and are legends: Denis the Law, 'King' Kenny Dalgleish, Alan Hansen, Charlie Nicholas, Steve Archibald...the Rugby team isn't much good either: and wee Alex wants 'independence'...? It seems to be a UK-wide problem. How long before Bale heads off to Spain?

[robertlouis]

I am alive and know it, och aye. Perhaps it is about attitude. Lawton I think it is in today's Independent, suggests that the World Cup isn't that compelling for the English players, just another non-club game they have to deal with. He claims that the English Premier League has the fewest home-born players in its clubs in Europe -to which one might add, where are the great Scottish players? They used to come south every year almost and are legends: Denis the Law, 'King' Kenny Dalgleish, Alan Hansen, Charlie Nicholas, Steve Archibald...the Rugby team isn't much good either: and wee Alex wants 'independence'...? It seems to be a UK-wide problem. How long before Bale heads off to Spain?

I wasn't disagreeing with your analysis of England's team and the way they played the other night. As for Scotland, the store of great players ran out a generation ago and there's no sign of an improvement, now or in the foreseeable future.

As far as independence goes and the vote next September, I do know lots of folks back home who will vote yes regardless of the facts and just as many people who are unsure; what I haven't heard is people saying they'll vote no, although that continues to be strongly represented in the polls.

The current events in Cyprus should cause a significant pause for thought - that could be the fate of all small nations within the EU.

Personally, I suspect that as the full impact of the coalition's welfare changes are seen for what they are - a full-blooded attempt to destroy the welfare state and to hell with the disabled and poor - there will be some shoulder-shrugging north of the border and a fatalistic acceptance that whatever wee Eck Fish may propose, it certainly couldn't be as bad as the Tory prescription. And bear in mind that Scotland has an infinitely more communitarian soul than the neighbours down south. This government is worse in social terms than anything Thatcher's lot came up with. Remember that the Tories have two Scottish seats in Westminster and are only represented in Holyrood because of the proportional representation rules that apply. They have no mandate whatsoever; it's the same democratic deficit that existed under Thatcher.

[Stavros]

Your post suggests young Scots do not play foootball to the required level anymore, which may also be a problem in England, although I believe Liverpool has one of the best academies in the country. As for the fantasy of independence, I would like to know what the point of 'independence' is if Scotland wants to be part of the EU. I read somewhere it even has thought of joining the Euro and trying to be part of the Schengen group which is absurd. The reality is that there are severe questions to be asked on the issues of tax revenue and the assumption Scots make about the petroleum resources of the UK Continental Shelf, most of which are insecure. This 71 page report from the IFS is worth reading (there are three or four chapters, the last one by McCrone is particularly good) for an insight into the tax issues, oil and gas and so on.
http://www.brodies.com/images/pages/dhi%20paul_johnson.pdf

[up_for_it]

I'd like to see a Barca vs Bayern final.

I'd love to see a German vs. Spanish final as well, although I'm more of a Dortmund man myself.

[SammiValentine]

I'd love to see a German vs. Spanish final as well, although I'm more of a Dortmund man myself.


Dortmunds fans are boss, home and away!

[robertlouis]

Dortmunds fans are boss, home and away!

When I lived in Germany (Frankfurt) I followed the local side Eintracht. The Dortmund fans were great fun, but Stuttgart was the needle match.

Now when I visit the German end of the family in Munich we watch Bayern. Great atmosphere, great stadium, great team. I'd still like to see them in the final.

[up_for_it]

Dortmunds fans are boss, home and away!

Very true. The first time I lived in Germany I followed BVB since they were only about 40 min away. They weren't doing too well back then, but the fans fantastic. Westfalen Stadion has the most incredible atmosphere. You could really get a sense of that Tuesday night against Malaga.

[Stavros]

Can you remind me how many offside goals they scored against Malaga? I assume there still is a rule called 'Offside', even in Germany....

[up_for_it]

Can you remind me how many offside goals they scored against Malaga? I assume there still is a rule called 'Offside', even in Germany....

I don't know if they do Stavros- I once watched a game in the Regional Liga were Paderborn scored a goal when their striker was at least a good yard off side. To be fair, the linesman did get hit with program booklets and beer cups for the rest of the game..

[SammiValentine]

Can you remind me how many offside goals they scored against Malaga? I assume there still is a rule called 'Offside', even in Germany....

bendy lines !!!!!!!!!!!

Frank Lampard Disallowed Goal vs Germany HQ - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV4nc_sjW9Y)

[robertlouis]

bendy lines !!!!!!!!!!!



If they're introducing Hawkeye, I can't wait for McEnroe to turn up as a referee.

[JenniferParisHusband]

Hi, my name is "Luis Suarez," and I'm addicted to eating footballers.


For christ's sake, why does he have to be the best player on my favorite team.

[robertlouis]

Hi, my name is "Luis Suarez," and I'm addicted to eating footballers.


For christ's sake, why does he have to be the best player on my favorite team.


You'd think that with what they pay him, he could afford to eat without cannibalising his opponents....

[Stavros]

That he didn't reach for the salt at least suggests he is aware of the campaign to reduce the salt content in our food. Bad as the incident was the Match of the Day team spent too much time on it -as usual Suarez needed several shots at goal before scoring one, in the 7th minute of extra time and after blatantly hand-balling it -he claimed the sun was in his eyes so he raised his hand to shield them and -would you believe it?- the ball struck his hand! In the meantime Gareth Bale showed in the other game why he must be in contention for Footballer of the Year, but Spurs continue to blow hot and cold and I daresay we will end up with the usual suspects in the top four. Let's just hope United crush Villa and send them down with QPR and Reading.

[robertlouis]

A temporary solution to the Suarez problem?

[robertlouis]

Bayern Munich 4, Barcelona 0.

Ach du lieber Gott!

[robertlouis]

Suarez gets a ten match ban, which takes in the first six games of next season as well as the dregs of this one.

Question: is a bite on the arm more than three times as bad as a deliberately high tackle which breaks an opponent's leg? Discuss.

And Ms Valentine, I expect to hear from you on this subject in due course!

[Stavros]

Not sure if the footballing authorities in the UK/Europe/World have a coherent set of punishments for bad tackles -intent must always be a key factor, as there are times when a player puts so much momentum into a tackle he can't pull back, but in the case of biting, like Cantona's kung fu kick -which was on a member of the public not another player- I think intent is mixed in with some cultural aversion, biting is just too odd. Suarez lost it, but he has done it before so he needs time to reflect on his behaviour, ten games is tame in the circumstances. He also needs ten shots at goal to score one, or 7, whatever. He is a good player, but hardly in the top 20 of players in Europe.

[JenniferParisHusband]

The FA / FIFA, have lousy punnishment guidelines. I agree with Stavros on inent being a factor, and I get repeat offenses having steeper penalties. But 10 games? It's a red card offense the first time. It's 3 on the seat for the second, and mandate he gets mental help regularly before he sets foot back on the pitch. You can't ban a repeat offender for rasicm 3 games and a cannibal 10. Stupidity at work by the FA.

The Cantona Kung Fu kick, that's on a fan. Different thing entirely! First, it was assault, he should have been in jail. Second, when you're on the field, you're consenting to that kind of thing. You know that it's a risk that someone will lose it on the field and go in with the spikes up, or deliberately take out a leg or something. Yes, it's illegal, but you know it happens. Getting kicked watching the game, whole other thing. That to me is 10 games on the seats. On the field, and off the field, two entirely different worlds. I had no problem with the little Swansea ball-boy getting kicked in the stomach for diving on the ball and covering it up. He's on the pitch, he's making himself a part of the game by trying to cheat to kill the clock. Damn skippy he deserved to be kicked, and banned from matches. Player who did it, yep, it's a rules violation, he deserved what he got too. But that was on the pitch.

Deliberately high takle that breaks an opponent's leg, that to me is the more serious offense. A bite? Ooh, guy goes off gets a bandage and hep test. He's still on the grass and able to play. At worst, he needs stitches. Maybe five minutes and he's back. A broken leg, the opponents are forced to be down a player who is most likely a starter and important to their team for a long stretch of games, or if it's severe enough, permanently. Imagine RVP being taken out in the first game of the season, suddenly things start looking a little different for Man U here in April. It's absolutely the worse offense. But isn't treated as such. Hell, I'd throw the racism penalties in as worse than the biting.

[JenniferParisHusband]

That he didn't reach for the salt at least suggests he is aware of the campaign to reduce the salt content in our food. Bad as the incident was the Match of the Day team spent too much time on it -as usual Suarez needed several shots at goal before scoring one, in the 7th minute of extra time and after blatantly hand-balling it -he claimed the sun was in his eyes so he raised his hand to shield them and -would you believe it?- the ball struck his hand! In the meantime Gareth Bale showed in the other game why he must be in contention for Footballer of the Year, but Spurs continue to blow hot and cold and I daresay we will end up with the usual suspects in the top four. Let's just hope United crush Villa and send them down with QPR and Reading.

Good call on Bale, looks like he's the big winner.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/04/29/pfa-player-gareth-bale-idINDEE93S01B20130429

[Stavros]

I think it is cultural, biting someone is just too weird. I think Suarez will leave anyway, Bayern Munich have shown an interest in him according to the papers, and on the weekend's evidence Liverpool can win without him. It has been overall a poor season in the Premier League, too many teams with no motivation, summed up by the 0-0 draw between QPR and Reading. Even though it is too early to write down the Spanish teams, the organisation and drive of the Germans, so common in their national team, is making their club football exciting to watch. In fact Bale deserves his honours (in spite of his diving exploits) for showing so much enthusiasm for the game, as well as skill. Question is who will join those two uninteresting clubs in the Championship- Wigan, Villa or Newcastle?

[robertlouis]

It's all going mad right at the end. Newcastle 0, Liverpool 6. Then last night, Villa 6, Sunderland 1. Whatever next?

And who's joining Reading and QPR in the Championship next season?

[beaufont]

Has to be Wigan for me, although they have been playing well recently - tough away game at Arsenal to come as well as the FA Cup Final on their mind's

Would be good if they win their game in hand & another team loses their bottle. Their game at home to Villa on the final day could be very interesting

[up_for_it]

It only took 73 years but the Germans are invading London.

[JenniferParisHusband]

I don't get the Rafa hate at Chelsea. I'd love to have Rafa back at Liverpool, but people in London just hate this guy. Beat ManU today in a game they weren't supposed to win, he has them in 3rd place & up a minimum of two spots in the tables from last year, 3 if Arsenal collapses at the end, 4 if City drops their last 2, and have 3 games to do it in where Arsenal and City have 2, guaranteed to play in Europe next season, had a great plan to help them come back and beat Basel after going down to them.

What more do Chelsea fans need the man to do? Don't get me wrong, as a Liverpool guy, I'd love to have Rafa back. But I just don't get the hate.

[Stavros]

I was going to admit that Rafa has done well at Chelsea, particularly by giving David Luiz a more central role where he has excelled, whereas before he was an erratic player....and then he dives to get someone else (another Brazilia!) sent off and smirks when the cameras are on him. I think Chelsea will remain in the top 4, it seems now to be a tussle between Arsenal and Tottenham.

[Stavros]

A momentous 18 hours in football: Wigan come close to saving their necks and putting Newcastle on the block, then their defence falls to pieces -if they are incapable of maintaining a lead over Swansea, maybe they don't deserve to be in the Premier League, although I would prefer to see Newcastle drop out, if only because they got rid of Chris Hughton saying they wanted a manager -Alan Pardew!- who would 'take Newcastle to the next level'....indeed!

Alex Ferguson, the basis of results, has an awesome record, and will be remembered for building -and re-building- teams that are hard to beat, and which win matches. Yet, I wonder what he has contributed to the game itself: Hugh MacIlvenny some years ago produced a two-part documentary in which he explored how three Scots born within 10 miles of each other -Jock Stein, Matt Busby and Bill Shankly- around the time total football was being developed in Europe, changed the way football was played as a team game, as well as their skills as managers of men and club organisations. Ferguson is obviously a great manager, but was he ever a major thinker in terms of footballing strategy? Is the game any different now from the day he took over? Perhaps his best decisions rested on choosing the right players, although he made some awful mistakes too.

Successor: for the long term, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

[robertlouis]

A momentous 18 hours in football: Wigan come close to saving their necks and putting Newcastle on the block, then their defence falls to pieces -if they are incapable of maintaining a lead over Swansea, maybe they don't deserve to be in the Premier League, although I would prefer to see Newcastle drop out, if only because they got rid of Chris Hughton saying they wanted a manager -Alan Pardew!- who would 'take Newcastle to the next level'....indeed!

Alex Ferguson, the basis of results, has an awesome record, and will be remembered for building -and re-building- teams that are hard to beat, and which win matches. Yet, I wonder what he has contributed to the game itself: Hugh MacIlvenny some years ago produced a two-part documentary in which he explored how three Scots born within 10 miles of each other -Jock Stein, Matt Busby and Bill Shankly- around the time total football was being developed in Europe, changed the way football was played as a team game, as well as their skills as managers of men and club organisations. Ferguson is obviously a great manager, but was he ever a major thinker in terms of footballing strategy? Is the game any different now from the day he took over? Perhaps his best decisions rested on choosing the right players, although he made some awful mistakes too.

Successor: for the long term, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

I think - and hope - it will be David Moyes.

[robertlouis]

Just heard that Man Utd fans are going to give a minute's applause for Fergie's career in the 98th minute of their next game.....

[SammiValentine]

Can you really see moyes outsmarting many or any managers in the champions league??!?!!? Ridiculous shout, imo.

[Stavros]

I don't think Moyes will get it, this could be deliberate disinformation or some tartanesque conspiracy by Scots to maintain the club's connection with Lanarkshire...other than my tip for Ole, Pep Guardiola might suddenly ditch Bayern for Manchester, and then there's Arry who can't spend all 'is daze playin' golf now can he? Or, there could be a dual arrangement: Phelan becomes Manager, with Ole as Assistant, the assumption being that in five years time Ole will take over completely. Unless it really is Jose rather than Ole. A case of Ole Jose?

But as I said, for all the trophies, did AF actually change football in the way Shankly did at Liverpool, and Busby in Manchester? Much as I have admired United, some of those Liverpool teams of old were frightening in their intensity, it was like watching a lion tearing a young buck to shreds. That was Shankly, physical presence, team spirit, adept organisation, and merciless attacking. Total war, as much as total football.

[robertlouis]

Can you really see moyes outsmarting many or any managers in the champions league??!?!!? Ridiculous shout, imo.

Disagree, Sammi. He's never been tested at that level, but he fits the Man U template perfectly. While Ferguson has managed at Old Trafford, Chelsea have had 24 managers, Real Madrid the same. Moyes is 50, in his prime and has a reputation for nurturing talent as well as building a credible team on an absolute shoestring.

The noise for the likes of Mourinho and others like him is just that. United's success, like it or not, has been built on the stability of Fergie and his backroom staff and the absolute dictum that no one individual is bigger than the club.

And where did he take that model from? Liverpool, who have by contrast forgotten the virtues of stability and continuity in the desperate struggle for success. The bootroom bought decades of success, now it's upheaval every few years.

I've got no axe to grind, I like both sets of reds and if anything favour Liverpool because my uncle played for them in the 60s, but what's been to Ferguson's advantage throughout is that in the face of upheaval off the field, he was able to maintain absolute control where it matters.

Following Fergie is the toughest act in football. As Gary Lineker said today, it would have been easier to be the manager AFTER the manager who succeeded Ferguson, but Moyes should make it. And Ferguson is astute enough not to have the Wilf McGuinness/Frank O'Farrell situation with the baleful figure of Sir Matt constantly looking over their shoulders.

As to Ferguson's place in the pantheon of great Scottish managers, well, it's there in terms of the trophies, but he's not the motivator or innovator that the likes of Busby, Bill Shankly and Jock Stein were. In terms of profound change to the way that football players are managed, trained etc, the accolade during the last twenty years surely lies with Arsene Wenger.

But I can't help liking Fergie. After all, he played his best football for my team, Dunfermline, back in the 60s, and he's never forgotten his roots either.

It's not a sad day, but one for celebrating. Only the meanest of souls would refuse to acknowledge his superb record of achievement. It will never be bettered.

[JenniferParisHusband]

As a Liverpool fan, I'd love to see Moyes get it. Won't be losing to Man U anytime soon then. LOL

Whoever it is that comes in next, I agree, they're going to have a tough act to follow.

Just curious, the finanical fair play thing is getting tossed about over here as one of the reasons he's taking off now, so he won't have to deal with it and losing the quality of teams he is used to by over-spending. John Harkes was yapping on about it earlier tonight. Is that even a talking point over there? I didn't think so, but the US football shows seem to be making a huge deal out of FFP.

[Stavros]

As a Liverpool fan, I'd love to see Moyes get it. Won't be losing to Man U anytime soon then. LOL

Whoever it is that comes in next, I agree, they're going to have a tough act to follow.

Just curious, the finanical fair play thing is getting tossed about over here as one of the reasons he's taking off now, so he won't have to deal with it and losing the quality of teams he is used to by over-spending. John Harkes was yapping on about it earlier tonight. Is that even a talking point over there? I didn't think so, but the US football shows seem to be making a huge deal out of FFP.

Looks like I got the succession wrong. Anyway, the point is that there is still a lot of hostility to the Glazer family and the way they sponge money out of United for their own benefit -they haven't interfered with the footballing side of the club, and Ferguson's personality and the success on the field have muted the public hostility to the owners: for now -though Ferguson will be in the Board Room, it remains to be seen if the Financial Fair Play regulations will have a greater impact on the Glazers than the players. Rooney is rumoured to be in search of a new club, Ferdinand, Scholes, Giggs, Evra and Carrick are at the end of their careers but EUFA'a FFP regulations cannot legally cap a footballer's salary as I understand this is against EU legislation on free trade. I suspect that a key aim of FFP is to limit the power of agents, and make an attempt to deal with fixed matches particularly in countries like Bulgaria where the final score can be eerily predicted before the kick-off -the BBC radio team did a programme on this complete with fans booing their own side when it became clear the result had been fixed -you might not be able to access it but the report is here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01m182v

Manchester United posted this on FFP just yesterday:
http://mufclatest.com/manchester-united-and-financial-fair-play/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=manchester-united-and-financial-fair-play

[SammiValentine]

Disagree, Sammi. He's never been tested at that level, but he fits the Man U template perfectly. While Ferguson has managed at Old Trafford, Chelsea have had 24 managers, Real Madrid the same. Moyes is 50, in his prime and has a reputation for nurturing talent as well as building a credible team on an absolute shoestring.

The noise for the likes of Mourinho and others like him is just that. United's success, like it or not, has been built on the stability of Fergie and his backroom staff and the absolute dictum that no one individual is bigger than the club.

And where did he take that model from? Liverpool, who have by contrast forgotten the virtues of stability and continuity in the desperate struggle for success. The bootroom bought decades of success, now it's upheaval every few years.

I've got no axe to grind, I like both sets of reds and if anything favour Liverpool because my uncle played for them in the 60s, but what's been to Ferguson's advantage throughout is that in the face of upheaval off the field, he was able to maintain absolute control where it matters.

Following Fergie is the toughest act in football. As Gary Lineker said today, it would have been easier to be the manager AFTER the manager who succeeded Ferguson, but Moyes should make it. And Ferguson is astute enough not to have the Wilf McGuinness/Frank O'Farrell situation with the baleful figure of Sir Matt constantly looking over their shoulders.

As to Ferguson's place in the pantheon of great Scottish managers, well, it's there in terms of the trophies, but he's not the motivator or innovator that the likes of Busby, Bill Shankly and Jock Stein were. In terms of profound change to the way that football players are managed, trained etc, the accolade during the last twenty years surely lies with Arsene Wenger.

But I can't help liking Fergie. After all, he played his best football for my team, Dunfermline, back in the 60s, and he's never forgotten his roots either.

It's not a sad day, but one for celebrating. Only the meanest of souls would refuse to acknowledge his superb record of achievement. It will never be bettered.

I tottally disagree.. Everton with strong squad he assembled (very well with little money, credit where credit is due) have failed abysmally in europe, never won a trophy in 11 years, not even the mickey mouse ones - the ones championship clubs have been getting to the finals in..... Has still never managed to beat one of the original "sky" top 4 teams away goodisoon park, in nearly 50 attempts.

At least we can sit back and see who is right. Am quite sure on this one. :)

Ferguson was the glue holding the club together, massive debt, key players are old, and possibly taking david moyes.................. fat lady is singing :)

[robertlouis]

I tottally disagree.. Everton with strong squad he assembled (very well with little money, credit where credit is due) have failed abysmally in europe, never won a trophy in 11 years, not even the mickey mouse ones - the ones championship clubs have been getting to the finals in..... Has still never managed to beat one of the original "sky" top 4 teams away goodisoon park, in nearly 50 attempts.

At least we can sit back and see who is right. Am quite sure on this one. :)

Ferguson was the glue holding the club together, massive debt, key players are old, and possibly taking david moyes.................. fat lady is singing :)

You hope, Sammi, you hope. ;)

Moyes and I went to the same school, as it happens. I think he's the closest they could have possibly got to Ferguson - and with better social graces.

It might go tits up, but he's a decent man with integrity, perseverance and a lot of talent. It will be interesting to see how he copes with having a meaningful transfer budget. He's worked miracles at Everton on a pittance.

I hope for his sake that it works.

But Mourinho would have been a disaster. Let him go back to Roman's three-ring circus (three rings means you're fired :D ) by all means. If Wigan go down, I reckon Martinez will go to Everton - and possibly Owen Coyle to Wigan.

[robertlouis]

Oh, and Sammi, what's your verdict on Rodgers' first season at Anfield? Will Suarez stay? What signings do they need to make to become credible challengers? (Centre-back and a solid defensive midfielder at least - Mascherano has never been adequately replaced).

Does any club with real championship and champions' league ambitions need to do the same as Man U and rotate four high quality strikers? Seems ludicrous that Chelsea and Liverpool have a choice of only two - dictates and restricts team shape and tactics. Only Man C have any choice.

Arsenal have made some poor signings and Adebayor and Defoe aren't enough for Spurs to mount a challenge - Bale's form is simply papering over the cracks.

[JenniferParisHusband]

Oh, and Sammi, what's your verdict on Rodgers' first season at Anfield? Will Suarez stay? What signings do they need to make to become credible challengers? (Centre-back and a solid defensive midfielder at least - Mascherano has never been adequately replaced).

Does any club with real championship and champions' league ambitions need to do the same as Man U and rotate four high quality strikers? Seems ludicrous that Chelsea and Liverpool have a choice of only two - dictates and restricts team shape and tactics. Only Man C have any choice.

Arsenal have made some poor signings and Adebayor and Defoe aren't enough for Spurs to mount a challenge - Bale's form is simply papering over the cracks.

I don't know about Sammi, but for me, Brendan Rodger's first season was a small step forward. I mean, we are up one spot in the tables over last year, so that's good. And while the summer signings when he didn't have a scouting group were mostly a bust, Coutinho and Sturridge have been outstanding since coming over in the winter window. I hate the constant fake praise of pedestrian achievements, the lack of responsibility and fair play (usually where Suarez has screwed up again), and the lack of consistency. But I think the second year is more what I will judge him on.

That said, he really needs to improve the team over the summer, and he really needs to make them consistent and have them imrpove over their typical slow starts. End of his second season though, we need to be top-4 to deserve a third season. And it's possible for this team to get there. A few upgrades on Defense (well, 4 really), another striker of the Suarez caliber, and then some depth on the bench. It sounds like a lot, but it can be done.

[Stavros]

A fascinating weekend of football with the climax to come -Manchester City lose the cup to a dogged Wigan side, and Mancini loses his job; Wigan look like they are going down when it should be the abject Newcastle; Cardiff will join the Premier League to give us another fascinating rivalry -with Swansea; and nobody knows where Rooney is going, if he goes anywhere. Maybe a swap with Frank Lampard?

[up_for_it]

Can you really see moyes outsmarting many or any managers in the champions league??!?!!? Ridiculous shout, imo.

Although I favor United, I have to agree. While I respect what Moyes has done in the EPL, I worry they will continue to fall flat in Europe for the foreseeable future, which is what the club needs to do well at to remain lucrative. I'm also concerned that, like Fergie, he favors the flanks too much, which will ensure Utd.'s chronic midfield problem remains under prioritized. As much as I enjoyed watching RVP bang them in this year, fact remains the money would have been better spent in the center of the pitch. Carrick still leaves a lot to be desired. At any rate, with compact formations becoming the continental trend, I could see them getting outmuscled, just look at BVB and Bayern, not to mention the Spanish teams. Fit and aggressive in winning back possession.

All that being said, I think he'll do ok domestically and I hope he can bring Leighton Baines over and start moving out the ageing back four before further problems develop.

Still divided on Mourhino- true he wouldn't have stayed long, but he would have won silverware. Such is the way of things these days and Moyes on a 6 year contract is a bit boggling. Maybe I'm losing my idealism, but I can't see very many dynasties being built at the moment.

I never figured they'd land Pep, he seems like too much of a football Che Guvera to come to England.

[robertlouis]

A fascinating weekend of football with the climax to come -Manchester City lose the cup to a dogged Wigan side, and Mancini loses his job; Wigan look like they are going down when it should be the abject Newcastle; Cardiff will join the Premier League to give us another fascinating rivalry -with Swansea; and nobody knows where Rooney is going, if he goes anywhere. Maybe a swap with Frank Lampard?

Chelsea win the Europa League, goodbye Rafa, and Lampard gets another year at Stamford Bridge. Wigan are indeed relegated - interesting to see if Martinez will go or stay, and also if the club can mount a challenge to bounce back. Great relief at Sunderland, Newcastle, Villa and Norwich. Will they fare any better next season?

And north of the border, a cheer for Partick Thistle, back in the Premier League after too long an absence. The Glasgow club for atheists and dreamers and also, temporarily at least, the de facto other half of the Old Firm. Sunshine at Firhill again.

[Stavros]

I think the seasons that has passed has not been a great one; some memorable moments, but other than the chase for the 4th champions league spot, there was no drama on the final day.

Yahoo have published a revised table which takes into account goals that would have been scored had the ball not hit the woodwork -grim news for Liverpool as they would have come fourth after United, City and Spurs -not sure which player has hit the woodwork most of all.

http://1.2.3.12/bmi/l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/Wbzj04YVApzG3yMAaRADnQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http:/media.zenfs.com/en-GB/blogs/world-of-sport/table200513.png


http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/world-of-sport/woodwork-denies-liverpool-champions-league-place-210016128.html

[robertlouis]

I think the seasons that has passed has not been a great one; some memorable moments, but other than the chase for the 4th champions league spot, there was no drama on the final day.

Yahoo have published a revised table which takes into account goals that would have been scored had the ball not hit the woodwork -grim news for Liverpool as they would have come fourth after United, City and Spurs -not sure which player has hit the woodwork most of all.



Suarez. He bit it whenever a player got away from his jaws.

[Stavros]

I was expecting a quiet summer, but last night England came close to repeating the defeat of Brazil in Brasil they managed in 1984 -while playing like donkeys; as usual the profusion of creative attacking players in Brasil can be undone by a slack defensive line -the Germans would have slaughtered this team, methinks.

And today it is official: The Special One has returned.

[robertlouis]

And today it is official: The Special One has returned.

What? On My Knees is back on HA? Praise the lord!!! :praying:

[danthepoetman]

....

[danthepoetman]

.....

[JenniferParisHusband]

Torres with 4 goals tonight against Tahiti. It kind of begs an interesting question though. Is he really any good? It seems to me that he only shines against weak opponents, like Tahiti, where he goes nuts scoring and wins the golden boot in a tournament, but never has a good series of games. Yet, Spain is probably going to win, due in no small part to him. Chelsea were the Champions League winners and Europa Cup winners, both due in no small part to Torres, and it can legitimately be said that under Rafa at Chelsea, he showed vast improvement, and helped contribute to their higher ranking in the tables than they had been the year before.

Is he that good? Does he only respond to certain coaches, certain systems? Or does he get lucky at the right times, but is an average player who just happens to always be in the right place?

[robertlouis]

Torres with 4 goals tonight against Tahiti. It kind of begs an interesting question though. Is he really any good? It seems to me that he only shines against weak opponents, like Tahiti, where he goes nuts scoring and wins the golden boot in a tournament, but never has a good series of games. Yet, Spain is probably going to win, due in no small part to him. Chelsea were the Champions League winners and Europa Cup winners, both due in no small part to Torres, and it can legitimately be said that under Rafa at Chelsea, he showed vast improvement, and helped contribute to their higher ranking in the tables than they had been the year before.

Is he that good? Does he only respond to certain coaches, certain systems? Or does he get lucky at the right times, but is an average player who just happens to always be in the right place?


In his first few seasons at Liverpool he was sensational, unplayable, the only striker who could put fear into the hearts of both Vidic and Ferdinand in the same game; arguably the best player in his role in the world.

He'd gone off the boil by the time he went to Chelsea, had more than his fair share of injuries and the loss of self-confidence was visibly massive. Sadly, he's shown few signs of returning to the stunning form he showed under Benitez at Liverpool other than tantalising glimpses. It's great shame, because at his peak he was simply exhilarating to watch.

The interesting question is whether Rafa will come in for him again and take him to Italy, but I look back with nostalgia to that season when his goals and overall team contribution briefly made Liverpool genuine challengers for the title again.

[Prospero]

What a bore. They only just finished the season. Now our trains and streets will again be full of dullards bellowing like idiot and generally acting like hobbledehoys

[robertlouis]

What a bore. They only just finished the season. Now our trains and streets will again be full of dullards bellowing like idiot and generally acting like hobbledehoys


Umm, no they won't, you incorrigible snob.

The tournament under discussion is taking place in Brazil and the games are shown live late at night on BBC3.

There are no major tournaments this summer, with the honourable exception of the Women's World Cup, where players don't fake and are paid a mere pittance if anything. The women's game is far more representative of the original principles than the bloated mess of FIFA and the Premiership.

[Prospero]

When it comes to soccer and the behaviour of fans on the streets, yes i am a snob.... i once had to physically attack some of these people to protect two frail elderly relatives from being trampled on.

Didn't notice it was in Brazil i confess.

[Stavros]

That is quite a remark given that the money spent on the Confederations Cup as well as the FIFA World Cup and the Olympics are part of the eruptions taking place in Brazil which I assume you have seen on tv and read about in the papers.
Whatever, I barely knew what this competition is all about and had to Google it -as it happens there have been some amazing games, Italy and Japan slugged it out and as usual Italy scraped through with an unconvincing performance when the Japan team was scintillating but just lacked that 1% which can sometimes win a game. Spain look to me like they are easily capable of beating Brazil, who only managed a draw with England. On the other hand, Italy, like Germany have a habit of doing the right thing at the right time, often getting dubious penalties or not getting players sent off for blatantly gruesome fouls.

Confederations Cup this time is a qualified success (Tahiti were never going to get far and it exposes the weakness in the competition); but perhaps the glittering prizes that Brazil acquired in quick succession -Confederation Cup,World Cup, Olympics, has begged the question of how rapid economic growth in a country affects 'the masses' even when it concerns something -Sport- which most Brazilians are lovers of. Brazil as a shop window for success...cue another thread methinks.

[JenniferParisHusband]

That is quite a remark given that the money spent on the Confederations Cup as well as the FIFA World Cup and the Olympics are part of the eruptions taking place in Brazil which I assume you have seen on tv and read about in the papers.
Whatever, I barely knew what this competition is all about and had to Google it -as it happens there have been some amazing games, Italy and Japan slugged it out and as usual Italy scraped through with an unconvincing performance when the Japan team was scintillating but just lacked that 1% which can sometimes win a game. Spain look to me like they are easily capable of beating Brazil, who only managed a draw with England. On the other hand, Italy, like Germany have a habit of doing the right thing at the right time, often getting dubious penalties or not getting players sent off for blatantly gruesome fouls.

Confederations Cup this time is a qualified success (Tahiti were never going to get far and it exposes the weakness in the competition); but perhaps the glittering prizes that Brazil acquired in quick succession -Confederation Cup,World Cup, Olympics, has begged the question of how rapid economic growth in a country affects 'the masses' even when it concerns something -Sport- which most Brazilians are lovers of. Brazil as a shop window for success...cue another thread methinks.


Tahiti never should have been in the competition to begin with. And I hate the mounting yellow cards. What a stupid way to handle penalties.

I think it's a catch 22. If you are Brazil, and your nation is looking for investment from abroad, you really do need to raise your profile by hosting these kinds of things. Atlanta Georgia was just a little redneck town until it had the Olympics, it's grown by leaps and bounds since then. I think the investment in the tournement, if it is treated as an investment, could be good for the people. They've obviously had to upgrade power lines, transit, and other infrastructure ahead of the games, and that could, along with other investment at a more populous level, do something for the population in general. Especially if it can lead to foreign investment and jobs in Brazil. But if they muck it up, then I'm with the people, waste of money.

[Stavros]

A few days after my post there was a feature on the protests in Brazil in which it claimed only 5% of the protestors were complaining about the money spent on football, the two biggest grievances were the rise in transport costs, mostly buses, and corruption, particularly among the police. I think that the economic growth in Brazil enables fluid and fast moving change, whereas politics doesn't move that fast, so there is a mismatch between a political system that hasn't changed since the end of the miiitary rule which is as recently as 1985. The money Petrobras has been making in the last 10 years is absolutely staggering on top of the minerals wealth -the aggregate wealth of Brazil is handsome indeed, but doesn't get shared around much and while Brazil looks for foreign investment, there was a placard which showed the populations of the cities and their subway networks -Sao Paulo with a population of around 11 million has a subway network barely a third of London with 8 million although it may be that extensions to these networks are not complete yet. I don't know Brazil so I can't comment on the cost of living, I think the key dislocation is between a rapidly growing economy and an outdated political system -what Brazil has in common with the Middle East, Turkey and the Occupy movement is a belief that the great mass of people are not being included in the decisions that affect them every day. And after all, although Brazil can be beaten in football, it is one of the best things they do that most Brazilians seem to be passionate about.

On another note, I don't think you can have a Confederations Cup without useless teams, same as with the second-rate European club teams in the Europa Cup or the small local teams in the FA Cup. I thought Australia was the big team in that region, they must have declined in recent years.

[up_for_it]

I think it's a catch 22. If you are Brazil, and your nation is looking for investment from abroad, you really do need to raise your profile by hosting these kinds of things. Atlanta Georgia was just a little redneck town until it had the Olympics, it's grown by leaps and bounds since then. I think the investment in the tournement, if it is treated as an investment, could be good for the people. They've obviously had to upgrade power lines, transit, and other infrastructure ahead of the games, and that could, along with other investment at a more populous level, do something for the population in general. Especially if it can lead to foreign investment and jobs in Brazil. But if they muck it up, then I'm with the people, waste of money.

I agree, I didn't know too much about the Confed. Cup and also had to google it, revealing my American ignorance. It's a shame it took a riot to bring it to my attention- it adds another dimension to the off season.

While I also agree with you and Stavros that the problems in Brazil are the result of a widening gap between a fast growing economy and an outmoded technocratic system of government (the 20th vs. 21 centuries), I disagree that Brazil needed these types of competitions to boost their profile. Brazil's economy was already growing and strong before they landed the WC et. al. I think the Brazilian protests expose exactly what is wrong with the investment from these competitions. Brazil is having to foot part of the bill, which is why many people are so frustrated, especially when the infrastructural improvements aren't trickling down to the neighborhood level. Transit, power, sanitation, etc. are only good if you've got them, and the improvements have been localized around the stadiums. Meanwhile, favela residents have been either relocated by force or paid off to leave areas where developers are forecasting rising property values due to the tournaments.At any rate, the fact that Brazil's middle class, who have these amenities, are taking to the streets, really says something about the disconnect between the needs of the people and the government's capacity to meet them.

In my opinion, the pitch that growing cities or countries need to build stadiums and conference centers is an old one here in the States, one which unfortunately has been followed far too often. Atlanta, for example, was already growing well before the Olympics-Hartsfield International was the cornerstone of that development and boosted Atlanta far and above any other city in the south east, and arguably, the entire east coast. A lot of southern cities have tried to go the stadium route and have ended up paying from already thin budgets for not only stadiums but the teams that play in them.

The reason I mention this is because this is the emerging global trend in sports business. I think Brazilians got this one right. It's interesting to think about how sports, and football in particular, are becoming global businesses, and what that means in terms of social and economic impact.

There is more to life than football...

[dderek123]

Here's some great football action!

http://i.minus.com/ibjjxORMIE4Qjj.gif

[JenniferParisHusband]

The transfer window started off so well for Liverpool. Now Henrich is off to Dortmund, Norwich appears to be outbidding for Eriksen, even Xabi Alonso doesn't want to come back. What the hell, man? We're not making the Champions league with this crew. Can't a brother get some defense in this window? (I mean, more than Toure.)

[JenniferParisHusband]

This season can't start soon enough. Gold Cup just ended here (USA! USA! USA!), and the little Brazilian tournement has been over for a while. Nothing but awful cricket, rugby, and baseball for a few more weeks. Plus, the Liverpool fans with the constant transfer speculation are driving me insane!!!!!