Rise of Hate Groups in US since Obama's election

[robertlouis]

The following report was on the BBC website overnight. Interesting, if not entirely surprising, hypothesis.

US 'hate groups' bolstered by Obama's election

Did the election of Barack Obama as US president boost the growth of right-wing and so-called "hate groups"?

A curious thing happens when you walk down the street in Spokane, Washington, first thing in the morning. Complete strangers look you in the eye, and say, with a little smile: "Good morning."

It is that kind of a town; if not close-knit, then, compared to some of the other towns and cities in America, human in scale and friendly to strangers.

Which makes the attempted bombing here of a civil rights march in January all the more difficult to comprehend.

The man alleged to have left a rucksack filled with explosives and shrapnel - covered in rat poison so as to stop blood clotting - is Kevin Harpham, an Army veteran with an interest in neo-Nazi groups.

Ozzie Knezovich, Spokane sheriff

We live in a different world now - hate seems to be a widespread phenomenon ”


The difficult truth for Spokane, for Washington State, for neighbouring Idaho and for all of the US, is that hate groups - anti-black, anti-Jew, neo-Nazi - are on the rise again.

And nearly everyone, including members of those groups, agrees that the election of Barack Obama has been a catalyst for the increase in support.

"I wouldn't say it surprises me," says Spokane's mayor Mary Verner, "though it is alarming to me".

"We are seeing a resurgence in hate groups because we are seeing democratic activity and empowered citizens who are not Anglo-Saxon protestants."

There was the same sort of reaction from the local sheriff, Ozzie Knezovich, when he heard that a bomb had been left by the path of the Martin Luther King Jr Day march.

"Surprised? No," he says. "We live in a different world now - hate seems to be a widespread phenomenon right now."

And there are ordinary citizens - and their children - who are at the receiving end of hate group activity in Washington and Idaho.
A sign questioning the legitimacy of Barack Obama as president Barack Obama has faced repeated questions about his legitimacy as president

Rachel Dolezal, who teaches art and African-American studies, has been repeatedly harassed since word got out about what she taught.

Her homes - she has moved several times - have been broken into. Nooses have been left for her, and a swastika was left on the door of her workplace.

And she has acted to protect her son.

"I actually bought him a pair of earphones for the bus," she says, "because he hears the word 'nigger' every day.

"It seems things were kind of hush and sanitised and cleaned up, or something, and then Barack Obama just brought things to the surface that were already existent within people."

Hate groups and other groups on the far right - so-called Patriot groups which vow to resist the encroachments of the Federal government, and anti-immigrant nativist groups - are tracked by the Southern Poverty Law Centre (SPLC).

"In the fall (autumn) of 2008," says the director of the SPLC's Intelligence Project, Mark Potok, "we started to see an explosion in hate groups, but more generally in right-wing groups of general types."

If Mark Potok wanted confirmation of his research, he could find it just across the border from Spokane, in the city of Coeur d'Alene, northern Idaho.

Sitting on his porch as the day fades into night is Jerald O'Brien, flanked by the flags of the Aryan Nations group and the Church of Jesus Christ-Christian.

Jerald O'Brien Aryan Nations supporter Jerald O'Brien describes Jews as "the children of Satan"

Aryan Nations is a wildly anti-Jewish white separatist group. The faded plastic children's toys on the lawn seem more than a little incongruous.

He insists he does not condone or encourage any acts of violence. He calls Jews "the children of Satan".

He accuses Barack Obama of being Jewish - he is not - and of not being a US citizen - he is. But he has cause to thank the president.

"The day after Barack Obama's election," he says, "my phone would not stop ringing. It was up to four or five a day asking for education and information."

Some will dismiss men such as Jerald O'Brien, and groups such as Aryan Nations, as "wackos" and "nut-jobs".

But Mark Potok is concerned.

"I think we are in a very similar period as were in the run up to the Oklahoma City bombing," he says, "as far as a bombing or an attack like that, whether that will come, we don't know.

"We are very close in numbers to the numbers we had at the very peak of the militia movement."

The trial of Kevin Harpham, accused of attempting to the bomb the Martin Luther King Jr Day march in Spokane, begins in August.

[russtafa]

i don't understand what Obama has done to worsen this situation

[robertlouis]

i don't understand what Obama has done to worsen this situation

Not quite sure what you mean, Russ.

The article does say that there has been a significant increase in extremist activity since he was elected, my guess is that there are too many people in the US who simply can't accept that a black man is in the white house. I also don't think that it's his conduct or policies - hard to see how anyone could have done a significantly better job in the circumstances.

So I can't help drawing the conclusion that it's less to do with his actions and more to do with his skin colour.

[Prospero]

Obama just has to exist. The hate directed at him because of his ethnicity is pervasive... and veiled only slightly. All that foul stuff about whether he was actually born in America or is secretly a Muslim.

[robertlouis]

Interesting that I posted several hours ago and so far it's only prompted responses from an Aussie and two Brits.

[yodajazz]

Racist and hate groups, define others as either inferior, or dangerous, to help define themselves, as 'protectors'. It's an ancient tactic to manipulate others, into giving you thier power. I think most US Blacks expected there would be a backlash, against a Black (or bi-racial) President. Many can see sayings as coded terms, such as the Tea Party, etc, talking about, 'taking back America'.

[robertlouis]

Racist and hate groups, define others as either inferior, or dangerous, to help define themselves, as 'protectors'. It's an ancient tactic to manipulate others, into giving you thier power. I think most US Blacks expected there would be a backlash, against a Black President. Many can see sayings as coded terms, such as the Tea Party, etc, talking about, 'taking back America'.

:iagree::iagree::iagree: Couldn't agree more, Yoda.

All it needs is a few teatwatter nutjobs to say things unguardedly and the whole thing could ignite.

[nonnonnon]

is this what the States seem like from the outside?

[Prospero]

is this what the States seem like from the outside?

Yes and from the inside too... as a regular visitor to many "blue' states and some blue bits of "red" states. The tea party, manipulated by some hugely cynical rich corporations, is scarcely veiled in its hatred of the black man now president. Very sad.

[Stavros]

The only new thing in this is caused by the election of Obama, groups on the political right in the USA who are violently opposed to government and think their government in DC is in hock to 'the Rothschilds, Freemasons, One-World Government, UN' etc etc have been around for more than a century-Oklahoma was one successful attack on the federal government by people with this mind-set. Tom Berenger and Debra Winger in a 1988 film Betrayed explore this fringe element, to some extent the Clint Eastwood film Magnum Force is about 'rogue policemen' taking direct action outside the law to wipe out criminals because the law has 'gone soft'. We often have stuff on the American right in the UK, Louis Theroux on the BBC has done it, I recall a series of programmes in the 90s, and so on. This week also there was coverage of neo-Nazi's in Germany. On the one hand it is meant to expose fanatics to reasonable people; on the other hand the question is have 'reasonable people' in the US lost it over Obama? I am not sure if it is about his appearance and background, or frustration that the US is failing to create jobs.

[Faldur]

Its just remarkable how he is treated. When Bush was president he received so much respect from those who disagreed with him... me thinking dem tea-braggereds are racists.. (oh brother...)

[trish]

No, the Tea Baggers aren't racist. Not all of them.
They want their country back? Of course, for few centuries now the seat in the White House switches from one party to the next and back again. And of course the party on the outs usually declares it will win the White House back again. But never before has a party declared they lost the country and want it back. Wassupwidat? I never once heard a democrat say they want their country back, no matter who was in office. Wasamadder? You can stomach an occasional democratic president. You can stomach an occasional black or Hispanic in casual encounters__but you can't stomach a black, democratic president. He has to be a communist. No, he's a socialist. No, he's a Nazi. No, a Kenyan, an illegal alien.

GOPers whine that W's legitimacy as president was questioned by the democrats. Of course, W won the presidency through the intervention of the Supreme Court. Nevertheless, most democrats accepted it as legal and final. A handful (but not nearly in as many numbers as the Tea Party) may have whined that the White House was stolen, but no one claimed their country was stolen__no one.
MSNBC (which is perceived by Tea Baggers as the antipode to FOX) never called Bush a Nazi, nor questioned his allegiance to the U.S. when we pranced around the Saudi oasis hand in hand with the oil Sheiks. Some people did question whether he also owed allegiances to "big oil," but let's not confuse business with patriotism. MSNBC never told it's listeners to protest the Iraq war while wearing sidearms. MSNBC never approved of dems wearing sidearms to town meetings. Never had to. No dem ever did.

What else did the GOPers do when Obama took office? They bought guns and ammunition! They literally drove the price of ammunition through the roof. Gun stores could keep bullets on the shelves. You would've thought Obama campaigned on restricting the 2nd Amendment. He didn't. He made a remark about Pennsylvanians clinging to guns and religion, but that was just an honest description of the prevalent culture of Pennsylvania (I know, I used to be a Pennsylvanian). Firearm reform was not in the democratic platform, not discussed in the presidential debates, not promised by any candidate in the campaign. Yet the tea baggers are still sure Obama's out to take their guns. Lucky they got Sarah ringing those bells to warn Obama not to do it what he never intended to do.

"oh brother" is right.

[Faldur]

You know Trish we've been down this road before, you post signs that are despicable, and then we post equally despicable signs. It doesn't seem to get us anywhere. And after 7 days of paradise on the beach, I just don't have the energy..

[Silcc69]

Its just remarkable how he is treated. When Bush was president he received so much respect from those who disagreed with him... me thinking dem tea-braggereds are racists.. (oh brother...)

His intellect was questioned and that is about it. Obama intellect, religion, birth and other stuff has been questioned. What other president's birth and relgion been questioned like his?

[hippifried]

Interesting that I posted several hours ago and so far it's only prompted responses from an Aussie and two Brits.
Yeah, they're called time zones. We have 4 of them. Tuesday night after a 3 day weekend?

On topic:
The Cour d'Alene area in Idaho is a beautiful spot, but lunatic fringers (mostly right wing or libertarian) started moving in at a slow pace years ago. [I guess it was because you can actually find a cave to hide in or live under a rock.] By the time of Waco, Ruby Ridge, the militia nuts on TV, & Tim McVey, it already had a reputation as friendly to extremists & a safe haven. It's too bad. Great hunting & fishing around there. The author gives the impression that he's from Spokane, Washington, not very far away at all. Spokane is a moderate sized (one area code) cosmopolitan city, full of colleges. There's going to be a spillover of toons.

Are there more hate groups now than before President Obama got in the race? I have no way of knowing. The FBI would know, but I'm thinking one would have to jump through a lot of hoops to get any details from them. Are there more bigots in the US now? No. That demographic is still shrinking each year & with each generation. They're just emboldened & louder. The election of Barack Obama was a pretty big time rebuke of all that crap in the first place.

The tea party folks started as a republican tax protest. They got badly infested by klan/nazi parasites by the time of the town hall disruptions of 2009. This too shall pass. These cockroaches can't abide the light of day. They're never going to have the kind power they once had, as long as there's a spotlight handy.

[nonnonnon]

What other president's birth and relgion been questioned like his?

I would say mccain and Chester A. Arthur's birth and jfk's religion

[trish]

First, McCain wasn't ever president. Second neither his religion nor citizenship was under the kind of ridiculous scrutiny by as many crackpots as was Obama's. It is the case that McCain changed religion just before the campaign. If I remember he went from Lutheran to Southern Baptist. The latter don't believe in reciting the Apostle's Creed. You're a rare item if you heard of this. McCain was also born on a U.S. military base not technically within the boundaries of the U.S. Nevertheless, being born on a military base is enough to make you a citizen. More people know about this, but only because it was used as retaliation against the birther nuts.

I don't know much about Chester A Arthur's religion. I'm almost certain there was no question concerning his citizenship. I do know he was a Baptist and an abolitionist. There was a schism brewing in the Baptist Church over the issue of slavery. The Southern Baptists (who supported the 'cause' of slavery) broke off from the Baptists. I wouldn't be surprised if Chester took a lot of criticism from the Southern Baptists. I would be surprised if non-Baptists gave a care.

JFK was of course Catholic. There was always a thread of anti-Catholic sentiment in various places in the U.S. But no one questioned that JFK was indeed a Catholic and therefore a Christian. Tea Baggers, on the other hand, question whether Obama is Christian.

[Stavros]

I'm with Hippifried on this -yes, I think Obama has been an excuse for people who have a problem with non-white people generally and politicians in particular to make a noise, but numerically they are small, but they shout loud and get attention. The English Defence League in the UK gets a fair amount of media attention but is of negligible importance. The Tea Party to me seems to diverse to last, that they have in common a suspicion of the federal government is barely worth mentioning, such suspicions have been part of American politics since 1776. Unfortunately, as it was said of Robespierre and the 'Terror', 10 men can make 10,000 tremble -it doesn't need an army to obliterate an office building and the people inside it.

[Dino Velvet]

All my Westside Lib neighbors, who all voted for Obama and still have Hope & Change bumper stickers on their Prius', just joined the Klan.

[russtafa]

we have hate groups in our country its called the Australian population against the government

[hippifried]

JFK was of course Catholic. There was always a thread of anti-Catholic sentiment in various places in the U.S. But no one questioned that JFK was indeed a Catholic and therefore a Christian.

Well... You were doing just fine until you decided to add those last 4 words. I get your drift, but there's a whole lot of Protestants, especially modern evangelicals, who try to claim that Catholics aren't "Christian" at all. Of course that's also the position of the klan, where Catholics (Papists) are 3rd on the hatred priority list, right behind "coloreds" & Jews. The systematic attempts to demonize the President should be familiar to anyone who's ever been in a position to have people hate them just because they were born. The stereotypes & lies are old hat. The rhetoric's the same, regardless of what group is targeted.

Overcoming bigotry is a long slow process because it has to be increental through generations. Each generation is a bit more tolerant than the last.

[trish]

Of course Christians who claim that Catholics aren't Christians are just as loony as the Tea Party nuts__ and (I would guess) less numerous.

[robertlouis]

Of course Christians who claim that Catholics aren't Christians are just as loony as the Tea Party nuts__ and (I would guess) less numerous.

The moment that any religion shifts from the personal to the political this sort of thing becomes inevitable.

My family comes from fishing communities in the east of Scotland, where baptist chapels used to be the strongest in the community, probably connected to the elemental nature of the lifestyle.

Some of them drifted towards the Brethren sects, where the capacity for schism and further schism is astonishing, and the exclusion of former members, even close members of the family, is total and cruel.

Goodness knows what they would make of my essentially liberal atheism lol.

[DL_NL]

Overcoming bigotry is a long slow process because it has to be increental through generations. Each generation is a bit more tolerant than the last.
And terminal inbreeding will someday take care of some of the worst idiots.

[trish]

The moment that any religion shifts from the personal to the political this sort of thing becomes inevitable.

My family comes from fishing communities in the east of Scotland, where baptist chapels used to be the strongest in the community, probably connected to the elemental nature of the lifestyle.

Some of them drifted towards the Brethren sects, where the capacity for schism and further schism is astonishing, and the exclusion of former members, even close members of the family, is total and cruel.

Goodness knows what they would make of my essentially liberal atheism lol.
I know of a Church that broke up over the issue of buying new pews to replace the old. Those who thought it too costly to buy new pews and that the old ones were just fine split off and built a new church three blocks away (complete with new pews, kitchen and parsonage). Is it the local politics of church finances that made them go nuts, or religion? Go figure.

[Stavros]

Goodness knows what they would make of my essentially liberal atheism lol

You're doomed, laddie, doomed I say...

[hippifried]

Of course Christians who claim that Catholics aren't Christians are just as loony as the Tea Party nuts__ and (I would guess) less numerous.
It's dogmatic, & can be traced back to the "Reformation". The devout are the easiest to manipulate into fear of devotees from any kind of differing beliefs. From there, it devolves into fear of anyone who would be so bold as to question the dogma at all & look to see for themselves. Bigotry is bigotry. It doesn't have to be racial, but it's always fed by fear. This shit is shouted from somebody's pulpit every day. Bigotry toward belief doesn't have to be religious either. How long did we try to jail anyone who professed an economic belief that differed from the established economic dogma? We fought both hot & proxy wars, & nearly got stupid enough to anihilate the planet over a difference in philosophy about money. Huh??? Really... Even today, all you have to do is mention the word "socialism" & a big chunk of the adult population of the US falls into fetal position & starts sucking their thumb.

President Obama gets every kind of bigoted slurs & lies tossed at him all at once. His name, hair texture, & pigmentation just add a few more to the list of things to hate about him that would have been there if his name was Smith & he was lily white. The pulpit is now the radio, TV, & internet. Pundits are just preachers, proselytizing whatever it is they claim to believe. What we're seeing & hearing today on pundit TV (there isn't any news) is the same tired rhetoric we heard at the height of the cold war, McCarthy's attack on America, & the coinciding rise of the klan into a national organization during the '50s & '60s. It's really not as intense today because modern recording to bolster memory & an inundation of constant propaganda have people numb, & refusing to believe anything. The fastest growing political demographic is the apothetic.

[robertlouis]

Goodness knows what they would make of my essentially liberal atheism lol

You're doomed, laddie, doomed I say...

Would you believe that John Laurie, aka Private Fraser, lived two houses down form us when I was growing up?

[NYBURBS]

I read that story on BBC and if you'll notice, it actually points out that the largest population "surge" for the militia was in the mid-90's, following Waco and Ruby Ridge.

There are some "hate groups" within those movements, and their numbers probably have spiked, but it would be an over-simplification to attribute the general increase in militias to Obama's election or his race. We're a huge country and there are night and day differences between some of our regions. An urbanized New Englander will generally have a much different perspective on the proper role of the government than will a rural farmer or miner.

There are some groups that are strongly centered around their particular church, some that are more or less secular and just despise the centralization of power that has taken place, and then there are the hard core hate groups like the klan and skinheads. We've also got radical socialists and communists too, just they haven't been so popular since Eastern Europe and the USSR had that economic meltdown.

I will add that some historians claim this is the most polarized our Country has been since around the time of the civil war. I don't think it's quite that bad yet, but I do think that we're headed for some type of breaking point in the next twenty or thirty years.

[Stavros]

Would you believe that John Laurie, aka Private Fraser, lived two houses down form us when I was growing up?

Well I dont have much in the way of options, so I believe you. My first recollection of Laurie was his introduction to the Algernon Blackwood Tales of Mystery which ran on tv in the early 60s -my mother particularly liked him, and then years later I saw him in Hitchcock's The 39 Steps -I think he was a talented actor who never really had the career he wanted, I think he thought Dad's Army was terrible -I never watched it until a few years ago when I realised how amazing some of the writing is, and Arthur Lowe's brilliant acting, apparently he was ground down by a domineering wife, etc etc.
None of which is relevant to the kind of extreme practice seen in Breaking the Waves -not sure which miniscule sect that film deals with.

[Stavros]

There are some "hate groups" within those movements, and their numbers probably have spiked, but it would be an over-simplification to attribute the general increase in militias to Obama's election or his race. We're a huge country and there are night and day differences between some of our regions. An urbanized New Englander will generally have a much different perspective on the proper role of the government than will a rural farmer or miner.

An important point which outsiders can easily not factor in. Also, extremists look and sound more exciting in the media than 'ordinary folk' -most Muslims are as boring as they are innocent, but find a fire-breathing apocalyptic Jihadi and they are all over the tv.

[onmyknees]

I began reading this thread, and swore it was 2008 all over again. I thought for a second I was in the HA archives. Little has changed...Trish still trolls for pictures of some fools carrying signs at this rally or that, yet never really was all that concerned about the Scott Walker stuff in Wisconsin, or the numerous times we showed equally moronic signs during the Bush years. Somehow that was different. It's fairly straightforward liberal hypocrisy...nothing new . She's good at it. Yoda a once thoughtful poster whom I seldom agreed with , but always enjoyed his writing, now falls prey to drawing parallels between the Tea Party and hate groups. They don't like Obama....therefore they don't like blacks. I thought he was a deeper thinker than that, but he's taken a cue from his guy Obama.....when there isn't much good to talk about with your own polices and record...deflect and demagogue. Nothing new there either.

It's frankly rehashed, recycled trash. But the reality is all around us...so let me remind you of it once again....Seldom in history have the liberals been granted super majorities in both houses, and the most liberal president of my lifetime. They won that fair and square....now came time to govern... All the stars were aligned for as James Carvelle put it "a 40 year Democratic domination". Mr. Carvell appeared to be off by about 38 years. The super majorities were squandered, just like the stimulus was . The Keynesian economic theories have failed, the "focus on jobs like a laser" seems to be more like a dim florescent light. The hallmark liberal legislation, ObamaCare that was so critical to the liberal strong hold, it took 9 months of trying to convince the pubic while the remainder of Rome burned, and all of that political capitol burnt along with it as 26 out of the 50 States have signed onto the lawsuit. Check your American History books Robert Louis...that's a first.
So....as the promise of 40 years of domination fades, the soaring rhetoric and brilliant speeches now turned into demagoguery, blaming and back biting , the super majorities rejected, it's not a surprise that those of you on the left need to find scapegoats...surely it can't be your ideology or your policies, so there must be something...someone else to blame. It must be hate groups working in the dark shadows seeking to undermine a brilliant black president....if only there was a liberal version of Joe McCarthy he would expose all this.... it must be the Tea Party who speaks in code and blow dog whistles to summon the troops and obviously have race as their primary motivation, it must be Bush, no wait Beck.....yea that's right Beck and Sarah Palin are at the root of why Obama's policies have failed and his approval ratings are dropping like a stone. If only we could charge them with sedition then the world would see.....

Part of me can understand the frustration and dismay you all must feel at having it all ripped away from you in such sort order, and having to grasp for reasons other than the reality. After all you were convinced you were right, and for a brief time managed to convince the American People as well. I'm sure you've even managed to convince yourself that when you see a peaceful Tea Party rally by day, the sheets and the hoods come out at night. I'm quite sure OJ had convinced himself he never pulled the knife and calmly slit 2 peoples throats either. I have no doubt that in his mind, he was playing golf at the time of the murders.The human mind has a capacity for that sort of thing. Denial can be a powerful motivator it's also the negation of logic.

[trish]

Little has changed...Trish still trolls for pictures of some fools carrying signs at this rallyThere you go again. Go to the archives and actually document prior threads where I trolled with pictures of fools carrying signs. Go ahead liar. Document it. You can't. You got one thing right. The people carrying those racist signs are fools.

[Silcc69]

http://www.thegrio.com/politics/why-racists-should-be-disinvited-from-the-tea-party.php

[BluegrassCat]

The super majorities were squandered, just like the stimulus was . The Keynesian economic theories have failed

While I agree that the majorities were squandered the bit about the stimulus and Keynesian economics is hilariously wrong. The stimulus was a huge success as far as it went. It created or saved 3 million jobs. The problem was it wasn't big enough. The austerity measures pushed by your heroes, Boehner & Co., meanwhile cost the U.S. 1 million jobs.

The past 3 years have been the clearest verification & triumph of Keynesian economics since the end of the Great Depression. Most of the predictions according to modern Keynesians, like Krugman, have come true: while the stimulus was helpful it was insufficient and unemployment remains much too high. We've seen that large government deficits in the short term are no problem for the U.S. economy to handle but all this private debt is crippling any real recovery. The government is the only agent with ability and willingness to spend in a liquidity trap. The supply-siders predicted soaring interest rates and back-breaking inflation, neither of which have occurred. Keynesian economics has been more than vindicated.

The problem was we didn't have a Keynesian in the White House. We had an accommodating centrist who bowed both to Wall Street and the Republicans, forfeiting a true middle class recovery and the potential for 40 years of Democratic dominance, like the one bequeathed to us by FDR.

[trish]

While I agree that the majorities were squandered the bit about the stimulus and Keynesian economics is hilariously wrong. The stimulus was a huge success as far as it went. It created or saved 3 million jobs. The problem was it wasn't big enough. The austerity measures pushed by your heroes, Boehner & Co., meanwhile cost the U.S. 1 million jobs.

The past 3 years have been the clearest verification & triumph of Keynesian economics since the end of the Great Depression. Most of the predictions according to modern Keynesians, like Krugman, have come true: while the stimulus was helpful it was insufficient and unemployment remains much too high. We've seen that large government deficits in the short term are no problem for the U.S. economy to handle but all this private debt is crippling any real recovery. The government is the only agent with ability and willingness to spend in a liquidity trap. The supply-siders predicted soaring interest rates and back-breaking inflation, neither of which have occurred. Keynesian economics has been more than vindicated.

The problem was we didn't have a Keynesian in the White House. We had an accommodating centrist who bowed both to Wall Street and the Republicans, forfeiting a true middle class recovery and the potential for 40 years of Democratic dominance, like the one bequeathed to us by FDR.Once again BluegrassCat tells it like it is.:claps:claps:claps:claps
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/10/opinion/sunday/10sun1.html

[JerseyMike]

"It created or saved 3 million jobs."
How can you tell if a job was actually saved by the stimulus? Other than having people say that it did.

[hippifried]

"It created or saved 3 million jobs."
How can you tell if a job was actually saved by the stimulus? Other than having people say that it did.
Accounting. It's all public record, & there's a whole shitload of people who's job is following the money. Of course every story is embellished to some degree, but I'll take numbers over no numbers to dispute them every time. ...evidence over bluster. How can you tell if a claim is actually bullshit? Othger than having people say that it is.

[runningdownthatdream]

I began reading this thread, and swore it was 2008 all over again. I thought for a second I was in the HA archives. Little has changed...Trish still trolls for pictures of some fools carrying signs at this rally or that, yet never really was all that concerned about the Scott Walker stuff in Wisconsin, or the numerous times we showed equally moronic signs during the Bush years. Somehow that was different. It's fairly straightforward liberal hypocrisy...nothing new . She's good at it. Yoda a once thoughtful poster whom I seldom agreed with , but always enjoyed his writing, now falls prey to drawing parallels between the Tea Party and hate groups. They don't like Obama....therefore they don't like blacks. I thought he was a deeper thinker than that, but he's taken a cue from his guy Obama.....when there isn't much good to talk about with your own polices and record...deflect and demagogue. Nothing new there either.

It's frankly rehashed, recycled trash. But the reality is all around us...so let me remind you of it once again....Seldom in history have the liberals been granted super majorities in both houses, and the most liberal president of my lifetime. They won that fair and square....now came time to govern... All the stars were aligned for as James Carvelle put it "a 40 year Democratic domination". Mr. Carvell appeared to be off by about 38 years. The super majorities were squandered, just like the stimulus was . The Keynesian economic theories have failed, the "focus on jobs like a laser" seems to be more like a dim florescent light. The hallmark liberal legislation, ObamaCare that was so critical to the liberal strong hold, it took 9 months of trying to convince the pubic while the remainder of Rome burned, and all of that political capitol burnt along with it as 26 out of the 50 States have signed onto the lawsuit. Check your American History books Robert Louis...that's a first.
So....as the promise of 40 years of domination fades, the soaring rhetoric and brilliant speeches now turned into demagoguery, blaming and back biting , the super majorities rejected, it's not a surprise that those of you on the left need to find scapegoats...surely it can't be your ideology or your policies, so there must be something...someone else to blame. It must be hate groups working in the dark shadows seeking to undermine a brilliant black president....if only there was a liberal version of Joe McCarthy he would expose all this.... it must be the Tea Party who speaks in code and blow dog whistles to summon the troops and obviously have race as their primary motivation, it must be Bush, no wait Beck.....yea that's right Beck and Sarah Palin are at the root of why Obama's policies have failed and his approval ratings are dropping like a stone. If only we could charge them with sedition then the world would see.....

Part of me can understand the frustration and dismay you all must feel at having it all ripped away from you in such sort order, and having to grasp for reasons other than the reality. After all you were convinced you were right, and for a brief time managed to convince the American People as well. I'm sure you've even managed to convince yourself that when you see a peaceful Tea Party rally by day, the sheets and the hoods come out at night. I'm quite sure OJ had convinced himself he never pulled the knife and calmly slit 2 peoples throats either. I have no doubt that in his mind, he was playing golf at the time of the murders.The human mind has a capacity for that sort of thing. Denial can be a powerful motivator it's also the negation of logic.

In other words, he's doing no better or no worse than many of your most recent presidents but has to fight harder for credibility because:
a) he's from Chicago?
b) he's a former athlete?
c) he's a Harvard grad?
d) all of the above and bi-racial to boot!

As an outsider (from Toronto which isn't to be confused with the rest of Canada which may mirror the US in many places) who isn't white I see hypocrisy in some white Americans who on one hand say race is irrelevant but yet on the other never miss an opportunity to deride and denigrate anything done by non-whites. Granted, I think white Americans have adapted fairly well to changes in demographics and the most extreme racists are usually marginalized and left to stew in their own hatred (at least judging by the media coverage) but America is still far from being a color-blind society.

[Lawyer4Trannies]

As an outsider (from Toronto...)

...you should shut the fuck up.

[hippifried]

Tell it to the judge.