Ae911

[iamdrgonzo]

9/11 Blueprint for Truth (2008 Edition) (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4617650616903609314)#


About Us


I. Organization
Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth (AE911Truth) is a non-profit corporation. We are a non-partisan association of architects, engineers and affiliates dedicated to exposing the falsehoods and to revealing truths about the “collapses” of the 3 World Trade Center high-rises on September 11, 2001.
Our organization is devoted to:
■ Dispelling misinformation with scientific facts and forensic evidence
■ Educating and motivating thousands of architects and engineers and the public at large
■ Procuring a truly independent 9/11 investigation with subpoena power
■ Achieving 9/11 Truth mainstream media coverage

II. Mission Statement

Our work at AE911Truth is dedicated to the victims, families and all others throughout the world affected by the tragic events of September 11, 2001 and its aftermath. We are a non-partisan association of architects, engineers, and affiliates.

Our mission is to research, compile, and disseminate scientific evidence relative to the destruction of the three World Trade Center skyscrapers, calling for a truly open and independent investigation and supporting others in the pursuit of justice.

III. Mission
http://ae911truth.org/images/3_beams.jpgWe call upon Congress (http://www2.ae911truth.org/signpetition.php) for a truly independent investigation with subpoena power. We believe that there is sufficient evidence to conclude that three World Trade Center buildings #1 (North Tower), #2 (South Tower), and #7 (the 47-story high-rise across Vesey St.) were destroyed not by jet impact and fires but by controlled demolition with explosives.
On September 11, 2010, the ninth anniversary, we succeeded in sending a third beam of light into the New York skyline.
Said founder Richard Gage during the press conference that evening, "The people of New York need to see the light--that a third WTC skyscraper not hit by any plane was destroyed on September 11th. They have been deceived about what happened on that terrible day. We are shining the spotlight, literally, on the fact that the official story of what happened at Ground Zero simply cannot be true and that a truly independent new investigation is needed both as a matter of national security and as the key to justice for the victims of the Twin Towers."

IV. Method
https://www.ae911truth.net/store/images/products/bft-dvd_t.jpgArchitects & Engineers for 911 Truth focuses solely on the forensic evidence available to prove that the three World Trade Center buildings were demolished as a means of proving to Congress that a new and independent investigation is warranted.
We also want to explain the evidence to the public at large. We believe that turning the tide of public opinion is the most powerful way to convince Congress to pursue a new investigation.
Our DVD, 9/11: Blueprint for Truth (http://www.ae911truth.net/store/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=37), explains for the lay public why a new investigation is warranted and overdue.
9/11: Blueprint for Truth is available in four lengths: the full version is 2 hours (http://vimeo.com/15416172), and three abbridged versions are available in 1-hour (http://vimeo.com/15415038), 30-minute (http://vimeo.com/15414341), and 10-minute (http://vimeo.com/15413097) presentations.
All architects, engineers, and others with competence as writers and speakers, whether they choose to sign our petition or not, are encouraged report the results of our research.

V. Founder
http://www.ae911truth.org/images/stories/rg_sidemic.jpgRichard Gage, AIA, is a San Francisco Bay Area architect and a member of the American Institute of Architects. He has been an architect for over 23 years and has worked on most types of building construction, including numerous fire-proofed, steel-framed buildings. Most recently, he worked on the construction documents for a $400M mixed-use urban project with 1.2 million square feet of retail, a parking structure, and 320,000 square feet of mid-rise office space—altogether with about 1,200 tons of steel framing. Mr. Gage became interested in researching the destruction of the WTC high-rises after hearing on the radio (http://911verses.com/911/underground/2006-03-29_Bonnie_Faulkner_Interviews_David_Ray_Griffin.MP 3) the startling conclusions of reluctant 9/11 researcher David Ray Griffin in 2006, which launched his own unyielding quest for the truth about 9/11. Since founding Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, Gage has presented Blueprint for Truth (http://ae911truth.org/en/evidence.html#Videos_by_AE911Truth) all over the world, and he has appeared on radio shows (http://ae911truth.org/en/evidence.html#Audio_Interviews) and television spots (http://www.ae911truth.net/store/product_info.php?cPath=27&products_id=79).

[BigDF]

I've seen this on television and I think they're really full of crap. I've also seen a lot of information both on television and on the net about controlled implosion demolition and it simply takes too much time to set one of those up and causes too much ruckus for people not to have noticed it taking place. I know from personal experience how steel reacts to heat and how much it expands. Both towers on 9/11 collapsed from the point of impact of the airliners down because the intense heat from the jet fueled fires caused the steel to expand and flow, releasing the floors to pancake down. That's what happened, not some secret plot by the government.

[robertlouis]

Oh fuck. Here we go again.

And if this hokum hypothesis is proved, what then?

A letter of apology to Bin Laden's family? Jesus.

[kittyKaiti]

Truthers are the greatest disgrace to the 9/11 victims and the heroes who tried to rescue and save lives on and following September 11, 2001. Truthers are sick fucks who spew their conspiracy theories for attention and can and will turn anything in the world into a secret government conspiracy. Such theories as 9/11 have been debunked on multiple levels including common sense and based on investigations from both government commissions and various independent research from hundreds of architects and demolition experts.

Disappointed in you Gonzo.

[iamdrgonzo]

Oh fuck. Here we go again.

And if this hokum hypothesis is proved, what then?

A letter of apology to Bin Laden's family? Jesus.


All, I've done is post the evidence that has been complied by various scientific disiplines, using scientific method. If you disagree with the evidence presented than post your rebuttal.

Many of the good folks at AE911 have staked their professional reputations on the evidence that has been collected. Many of these same folks are responsible for the design and construct of multi-story steel framed buildings on a daily basis and as such they speak from experience.

Their work has/is been published and peer-reviewed in various respected scientific journals for years and not one paper has been rebutted.

[iamdrgonzo]

Truthers are the greatest disgrace to the 9/11 victims and the heroes who tried to rescue and save lives on and following September 11, 2001. Truthers are sick fucks who spew their conspiracy theories for attention and can and will turn anything in the world into a secret government conspiracy. Such theories as 9/11 have been debunked on multiple levels including common sense and based on investigations from both government commissions and various independent research from hundreds of architects and demolition experts.

Disappointed in you Gonzo.


Disappointed? I'm rather proud of myself.

The definition of consiracy is:

an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.

And that being as such this certainly could be considered a conspiracy.

Did you even take the 2 hours of your time to view the evidence as was put forth?

I'm betting you haven't and are just shooting from the hip.

Please watch the video it's two hours. The evidence compiled therein is irrefutable.

Here are some other US government sponsored "conspiracies" you may be familiar with (or not):

Gulf of Tonkin incident Gulf of Tonkin incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Gulf_of_Tonkin_Kn11060.jpg" class="image"><img alt="Gulf of Tonkin Kn11060.jpg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Kn11060.jpg/300px-Gulf_of_Tonkin_Kn11060.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/3/32/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Kn11060.jpg/300px-Gulf_of_Tonkin_Kn11060.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident)

Operation Ajax 1953 Iranian coup d'état - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:28mordad1332.jpg" class="image"><img alt="Soldiers outside the Parliament building in Tehran" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/28mordad1332.jpg/200px-28mordad1332.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/6/68/28mordad1332.jpg/200px-28mordad1332.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_ajax)

COINTELPRO COINTELPRO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:US-FBI-ShadedSeal.svg" class="image"><img alt="US-FBI-ShadedSeal.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/US-FBI-ShadedSeal.svg/146px-US-FBI-ShadedSeal.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/7/70/US-FBI-ShadedSeal.svg/146px-US-FBI-ShadedSeal.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO)

Shills who spew forth unmitagated propaganda need to remove their heads from their asses and take a look around before calling the kettle black.

[iamdrgonzo]

A little background about myself:

I severed almost 10 years active duty in the US Navy, working in the field of nuclear propulsion and repair. I have a BS Nuclear Engineering with over 20 years field and lab experience. After I left the US Navy, I went to work as a field service consultant working primarily on 6 x 10 main safety relief valves which are found on reactor vessels for a company by name of Target Rock (the valve that malfunctioned at 3 Mile Island was a 6 x 10). I have worked at dozens of nuclear generating stations both domnestically and internationally.

I no longer work in the power generating field.

I'm such a complete fuck up "they" now allow me to build houses and commercial office space (going on 12 years).

The moral of my story is:

I know science from shit and the folks at AE911 are putting out the truth based wholly upon scientfic method not pseudo-science. The work at AE911 is sourced and referenced. All papers are/have been published for peer review in various scientific journals and not one has been rebutted in over 5 years.

[BigDF]

A little background about myself:

I severed almost 10 years active duty in the US Navy, working in the field of nuclear propulsion and repair. I have a BS Nuclear Engineering with over 20 years field and lab experience. After I left the US Navy, I went to work as a field service consultant working primarily on 6 x 10 main safety relief valves which are found on reactor vessels for a company by name of Target Rock (the valve that malfunctioned at 3 Mile Island was a 6 x 10). I have worked at dozens of nuclear generating stations both domnestically and internationally.

I no longer work in the power generating field.

I'm such a complete fuck up "they" now allow me to build houses and commercial office space (going on 12 years).

The moral of my story is:

I know science from shit and the folks at AE911 are putting out the truth based wholly upon scientfic method not pseudo-science. The work at AE911 is sourced and referenced. All papers are/have been published for peer review in various scientific journals and not one has been rebutted in over 5 years.To tell you the truth, you'd be a little more convincing if your post didn't look like it was written by someone who is barely literate. You know you can preview your posts before submitting them? I don't have time to research this crap tonight, but you can rest assured that I'll be looking at it tomorrow.

[loren]

Truthers are the greatest disgrace to the 9/11 victims and the heroes who tried to rescue and save lives on and following September 11, 2001. Truthers are sick fucks who spew their conspiracy theories for attention and can and will turn anything in the world into a secret government conspiracy. Such theories as 9/11 have been debunked on multiple levels including common sense and based on investigations from both government commissions and various independent research from hundreds of architects and demolition experts.

Disappointed in you Gonzo.:iagree: It's pointless to argue with these "troother" jackasses. On a number of occasions, I've gone point for point with these idiots. After going through all of their "facts" all their left with is, "Well, you're just part of the conspiracy."

[El Nino]

Dr. Gonzo... is correct.

[iamdrgonzo]

To tell you the truth, you'd be a little more convincing if your post didn't look like it was written by someone who is barely literate. You know you can preview your posts before submitting them? I don't have time to research this crap tonight, but you can rest assured that I'll be looking at it tomorrow.


I never claimed to be the spelling B champion.

Please look into it, the only thing you have to lose is your time.

[iamdrgonzo]

:iagree: It's pointless to argue with these "troother" jackasses. On a number of occasions, I've gone point for point with these idiots. After going through all of their "facts" all their left with is, "Well, you're just part of the conspiracy."

Please allow my jackass to point:


All 3 building fell with constant acceleration through path of greatest resistance.
Unnatural symmetrical debris field.
Extremely rapid onset of destruction.
Multi-ton steel sections ejected laterally 600 ft at 50 mph
Mid-air pulverizatrion of 90,000 tons of concrete, metal decking and floor trusses.
1200 ft debris field no "pancaked" floors found.
Isolated explosive ejections seen 20-30 floors below debris canopy.
Total building destruction all 3 buildings fell steel frames and all
Several tons of molten iron found in debris "pile", 2700F
Nano-thermite explosives found in dust samples several peer-reviewed papers and technical articles thave been published on this topic
No other steel framed high-rise in the history of stell framed construction has collapsed due to fire never mind 3 building on one day.
Evidence of melted steel and high temerature corrosion can be found in Appendix C of the FEMA report.
Microspheres of aluminum and iron were found the only way iron or aluminum will form microshperes is when they become molten then aerosolised.
Steel frame buildings act as giant heat sinks and distibute heat evenly just like your CPU heat sink.
Your turn:Bowdown:

[hippifried]

I've seen this on television and I think they're really full of crap. I've also seen a lot of information both on television and on the net about controlled implosion demolition and it simply takes too much time to set one of those up and causes too much ruckus for people not to have noticed it taking place. I know from personal experience how steel reacts to heat and how much it expands. Both towers on 9/11 collapsed from the point of impact of the airliners down because the intense heat from the jet fueled fires caused the steel to expand and flow, releasing the floors to pancake down. That's what happened, not some secret plot by the government.
Truthers are totally full of shit. But I don't buy the heat explanation. Jet fuel is kerosene. We've been round & round about this, so I won't go into detail about my theory right now. If you really want me to, I can. It's not a conspiracy theory.

[robertlouis]

Please allow my jackass to point:


All 3 building fell with constant acceleration through path of greatest resistance.
Unnatural symmetrical debris field.
Extremely rapid onset of destruction.
Multi-ton steel sections ejected laterally 600 ft at 50 mph
Mid-air pulverizatrion of 90,000 tons of concrete, metal decking and floor trusses.
1200 ft debris field no "pancaked" floors found.
Isolated explosive ejections seen 20-30 floors below debris canopy.
Total building destruction all 3 buildings fell steel frames and all
Several tons of molten iron found in debris "pile", 2700F
Nano-thermite explosives found in dust samples several peer-reviewed papers and technical articles thave been published on this topic
No other steel framed high-rise in the history of stell framed construction has collapsed due to fire never mind 3 building on one day.
Evidence of melted steel and high temerature corrosion can be found in Appendix C of the FEMA report.
Microspheres of aluminum and iron were found the only way iron or aluminum will form microshperes is when they become molten then aerosolised.
Steel frame buildings act as giant heat sinks and distibute heat evenly just like your CPU heat sink.
Your turn:Bowdown:

Yep, and wasn't it just bad luck for them that two airliners happened to plough into the twin towers on the very same day?

[onmyknees]

A generation ago we had the grassy knoll conspiracy spoof, and a generation later Oliver Stone and a few others are still going strong. So the 911 truthers are this generations loons, and nothing or no one can dislodge them from their fantasies. Your resume notwithstanding, you can believe what you wanna believe. We have all sorts of cooks believing all sorts of theories. None of us have the time or energy to document to you the National Geographic, Academy of Sciences, Popular Mechanics, or countless other reputable entities who find your beliefs "unbelievable" . Carry on wayward one !

[robertlouis]

A generation ago we had the grassy knoll conspiracy spoof, and a generation later Oliver Stone and a few others are still going strong. So the 911 truthers are this generations loons, and nothing or no one can dislodge them from their fantasies. Your resume notwithstanding, you can believe what you wanna believe. We have all sorts of cooks believing all sorts of theories. None of us have the time or energy to document to you the National Geographic, Academy of Sciences, Popular Mechanics, or countless other reputable entities who find your beliefs "unbelievable" . Carry on wayward one !

Oh shit omk, we're agreeing again. Thank goodness for the Osama thread, eh? :)

[south ov da border]

good stuff...

[iamdrgonzo]

Truthers are totally full of shit. But I don't buy the heat explanation. Jet fuel is kerosene. We've been round & round about this, so I won't go into detail about my theory right now. If you really want me to, I can. It's not a conspiracy theory.


Fact, jet fuel and office fires do not burn any hotter than 1400F, steel alloys don't reach their melting point until 2700F.

[iamdrgonzo]

Yep, and wasn't it just bad luck for them that two airliners happened to plough into the twin towers on the very same day?


Isn't it just a coincidence that 3 steel framed building fell on the same day in the same manner when in the history of steel framed contruction not one had ever fallen prior.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/docs/mandarin/beijing_torch.jpg


Click the link for more steel framed office building infernos:

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/fires.html

[iamdrgonzo]

A generation ago we had the grassy knoll conspiracy spoof, and a generation later Oliver Stone and a few others are still going strong. So the 911 truthers are this generations loons, and nothing or no one can dislodge them from their fantasies. Your resume notwithstanding, you can believe what you wanna believe. We have all sorts of cooks believing all sorts of theories. None of us have the time or energy to document to you the National Geographic, Academy of Sciences, Popular Mechanics, or countless other reputable entities who find your beliefs "unbelievable" . Carry on wayward one !


Ignorance is bliss.

You still haven't poked any holes in the science.

All you have done is toss a few sticks and stones.

I'm not impressed.

[iamdrgonzo]

These are pictures of buildings that have fallen over, note that they did not spontaneously pulverize themselves on the way down. In order for pulverization to occur there must be a seperate source of energy to act as the catalyst of the pulverization.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSu1k0ZPQPliJVF6mESG81PxLi7X4BVp n_7x-7J0ZiTZXcc0tGr

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRWC5hbUFicjQ8PddeDcEUI4RBtttPYD cOFLl9n7GCyW2PsmyPXjA
http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/july2005/060705pic6.jpg

[iamdrgonzo]

Here is a simple mind experiment (ala Albert Einstein):

You are in a tree in your yard with a chain saw. The tree is 25 ft tall. You cut one side of the tree 5 feet from it's top with the saw. Which way does the top of the tree fall?

Does it fall to the side on which you cut the path of least resistance?

Or

Does it fall straight down through the path of greatest resistance, the trunk, and pulverize itself on the way?

[loren]

Fact, jet fuel and office fires do not burn any hotter than 1400F, steel alloys don't reach their melting point until 2700F.
Fact, steel doesn't have to melt in order to become compromised. Have you ever heard of Sherman's Neckties?

[onmyknees]

Ignorance is bliss.

You still haven't poked any holes in the science.

All you have done is toss a few sticks and stones.

I'm not impressed.

As I previously stated...I could dedicate the remainder of my life countering you with factual data, but what would be the point.? I'd rather spend that time playin with Trans Women... You're twisted and cemented into your mindset....so stay there... you and Jesse Ventura just keep on keepin' on in your curious little alter reality. It must be fun !!

[Quiet Reflections]

I always thought conspiracy theorists were funny people. One minute they complain about how incompetent the government is and the next they are trying to convince you those same incompetent people are capable of pulling off highly elaborate schemes.

[Schimmel]

To all you people who are sickened or angered by the "Truthers," have you actually looked at the evidence? Be honest. Don't just brush it off until actually investigate. Until then you have right to speak on the subject.

[hippifried]

The towers were concrete elevator shafts in the center, with the floors radiating from there out to the steel exoskeleton. The exoskeleton is square tube steel posts running the full length of the building.

The first plane hit in the middle of the building. Lots of damage, but IMHO the building would have survived. The second plane hit the corner & farther down, putting even more weight on the point of impact. This causes the first collapse as the explosion tweaks & kinks the corner posts of the exoskeleton. That building actually toppled at the point of impact. As the top of the building falls over, the elevator shafts shatter from the shear forces, & the rest of the posts are bent & twisted. The exoskeleton peeled like a banana.

The collapse of a building that big releases an enormous amount of energy. I believe the USGS got a measurable seismic reading on the collapse. A siesmic wave creates a phenomenon known as liquifaction, where the ground acts like jello. This is what causes most of the damage in earthquakes. But the average earthquake is 10 miles down or more. All this energy was released right at the surface & through the foundation to the bedrock from the top.

It's my considered opinion that the ground shaking from the first collapse caused a shearing effect at the base of the elevator shafts in the other tower. It doesn't need to shear completely. You just have to put enough cracks in that hollow structure that it shifts. The steel exoskeleton could probably take the shear pressures, but not the concrete elevator structure. 130 some stories of concrete is a lot of weight. Once it starts moving at the bottom, it'll just pulverize itself from the bottom up. As the shaft structure starts dropping, it drags the floors & the exoskeleton with it, & pancakes to the ground. It's a classic implosion. It was just too big to contain.

See? Not a conspiracy theory. The heat theory never made sense to me. Steel bends from torque.

[iamdrgonzo]

Fact, steel doesn't have to melt in order to become compromised. Have you ever heard of Sherman's Neckties?


You would like to compare the railroad ties used during the civil war to modern steel alloys that are used in the construction of sky scapers?

[iamdrgonzo]

As I previously stated...I could dedicate the remainder of my life countering you with factual data, but what would be the point.? I'd rather spend that time playin with Trans Women... You're twisted and cemented into your mindset....so stay there... you and Jesse Ventura just keep on keepin' on in your curious little alter reality. It must be fun !!

As I previously typed I'm not impressed with your ignorance.

[iamdrgonzo]

The towers were concrete elevator shafts in the center, with the floors radiating from there out to the steel exoskeleton. The exoskeleton is square tube steel posts running the full length of the building.

The first plane hit in the middle of the building. Lots of damage, but IMHO the building would have survived. The second plane hit the corner & farther down, putting even more weight on the point of impact. This causes the first collapse as the explosion tweaks & kinks the corner posts of the exoskeleton. That building actually toppled at the point of impact. As the top of the building falls over, the elevator shafts shatter from the shear forces, & the rest of the posts are bent & twisted. The exoskeleton peeled like a banana.

The collapse of a building that big releases an enormous amount of energy. I believe the USGS got a measurable seismic reading on the collapse. A siesmic wave creates a phenomenon known as liquifaction, where the ground acts like jello. This is what causes most of the damage in earthquakes. But the average earthquake is 10 miles down or more. All this energy was released right at the surface & through the foundation to the bedrock from the top.

It's my considered opinion that the ground shaking from the first collapse caused a shearing effect at the base of the elevator shafts in the other tower. It doesn't need to shear completely. You just have to put enough cracks in that hollow structure that it shifts. The steel exoskeleton could probably take the shear pressures, but not the concrete elevator structure. 130 some stories of concrete is a lot of weight. Once it starts moving at the bottom, it'll just pulverize itself from the bottom up. As the shaft structure starts dropping, it drags the floors & the exoskeleton with it, & pancakes to the ground. It's a classic implosion. It was just too big to contain.

See? Not a conspiracy theory. The heat theory never made sense to me. Steel bends from torque.


Hokum

[iamdrgonzo]

Collapse:

YouTube - Building Collapse (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKeENdyIluI&feature=related)

Note the building retained its structual integrity as it fell right up until the release of it's stored kinetic energy, which was released as it smashed into the ground.

[iamdrgonzo]

Demolition:

YouTube - A Building Implosion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czyHvWS2mOM&feature=related)

[iamdrgonzo]

Why was this thread moved?

It has nothing to do with religon or politics.

[iamdrgonzo]

To all you people who are sickened or angered by the "Truthers," have you actually looked at the evidence? Be honest. Don't just brush it off until actually investigate. Until then you have right to speak on the subject.


It is easier to throw sticks and stones than to actually investigate.

[iamdrgonzo]

I always thought conspiracy theorists were funny people. One minute they complain about how incompetent the government is and the next they are trying to convince you those same incompetent people are capable of pulling off highly elaborate schemes.


I don't recall any mention of competence or incompetence nor of the government in this thread.

You are the first in this thread to mention these things which of course have nothing whatsoever to do with the subject at hand.

Misdirection and obfuscation will not change the facts.

[Quiet Reflections]

I don't recall any mention of competence or incompetence nor of the government in this thread.

You are the first in this thread to mention these things which of course have nothing whatsoever to do with the subject at hand.

Misdirection and obfuscation will not change the facts.I wasn't talking to or about you, I was just making an observation about why I find those people funny. I also didn't say you were a conspiracy theorist so don't get pissy with me if for some reason you identify with that term.

[Faldur]

http://lolpics.se/pics/482.jpg

[iamdrgonzo]

"There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion." ~ Lord Acton

[iamdrgonzo]

I wasn't talking to or about you, I was just making an observation about why I find those people funny. I also didn't say you were a conspiracy theorist so don't get pissy with me if for some reason you identify with that term.

Que, sera, sera

[iamdrgonzo]

Operation Northwoods was a series of false-flag operation proposals that originated within the United States government in 1962. The proposals called for (CIA) or other operatives to commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere. These acts of terrorism were to be blamed on Cuba in order to create public support for a war against that nation, which had recently become communist under Fidel Castro. One part of Operation Northwoods was to "develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington."

It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner en route from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled flight.

a. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone.

b. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will begin transmitting on the international distress frequency a "MAY DAY" message stating he is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO radio[17] stations in the Western Hemisphere to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to "sell" the incident.

Operation Northwoods - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:NorthwoodsMemorandum.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/NorthwoodsMemorandum.jpg/185px-NorthwoodsMemorandum.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/b/b1/NorthwoodsMemorandum.jpg/185px-NorthwoodsMemorandum.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods)

[Prospero]

I have my own theories. I think everyone here are actually avatars created by a guy from Uruguay. The trouble is he died five years ago - and forgot to delete us all first.

[iamdrgonzo]

I have my own theories. I think everyone here are actually avatars created by a guy from Uruguay. The trouble is he died five years ago - and forgot to delete us all first.


I like it, if you ever find the fine person please have him/her delete me A.S.A.P..

[loren]

Operation NorthwoodsI thought you'd bring this up. Several years ago, I was talking with an old man who had several stars on his shoulders. He said that it was simply an idea that was briefly discussed by the Joint Chiefs. They dissmissed it the same day that it was brought up. The government being the bureaucratic nightmare it is, they had to put the idea in writing. Or, at least that's what he said.:shrug

[loren]

You would like to compare the railroad ties used during the civil war to modern steel alloys that are used in the construction of sky scapers?The point is, that steel does not have to melt before it's load bearing capacity is compromised.

[trish]

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showpost.php?p=506571&postcount=4

[hippifried]

http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/showpost.php?p=506571&postcount=4
Well, that's part of an explanation. Maybe.

Sorry, but you just can't discount the engineering. It's the engineering that sets the stage for the pancake collapse of the second tower to fall. Not the first one of course. That was a topple from the point of impact. All it took was a couple of dents in the exoskeleton at the corner to get the steel bending. Square tube, with slip joints, welds, & rivets. Ding it a little, & it'll bend under all that weight Once the top of the tower was just a little off plumb, the whole tower was doomed. You already know my theory on the second collapse.


I have a question for anyone who might know:

Which tower was damaged by the bomb in '93?

[robertlouis]

I said this two days ago in response to all the postulated engineering solutions and forgive me, I don't recall seeing a specific reply.

"Yep, and wasn't it just bad luck for them that two airliners happened to plough into the twin towers on the very same day?

Any chance now please? I'm not taking the piss, I really want to know. Thanks.

[maaarc]

directed energy weapons anyone?????
Following is taken from the coasttocoastam website:

former professor of Mechanical Engineering at Clemson University, Dr. Judy Wood discussed how the destruction of buildings in NYC on 9-11 was the result of directed energy technology, not planes, fire, thermite or bombs. In her book, Where Did the Towers Go?, she focuses on physical evidence, and has not speculated on whether the US government was involved in the attacks. The official story of the Towers' "pancaking" down, and the lack of subsequent debris doesn't fit with the explanation of fire, or even theorized controlled demolitions, she said. And "planes cannot turn buildings into powder in midair and leave no remains," she added.

She cited the exactitude of the damage-- the 47-story Building 7 collapsed, but the Post Office across the street "didn't get a scratch on it." And a police car had abrupt boundaries of damage-- the front half melted, while the back half appeared untouched-- "fire doesn't do that," she noted.

From her studies, Wood concluded that a kind of (weaponized) free energy technology was employed in the WTC attacks, similar to the Hutchison Effect or Tesla technology. Tesla had wanted to share this technology 100 years ago, but was afraid it would be used for evil, she commented. She described the technology as a "magnetic electro-gravitic nuclear reaction" that interferes with energy fields, and suggested it might have also been used in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing.


http://www.drjudywood.com/

[trish]

Yeah...it was a directed energy weapon...the planes carried 62.7 billion Joules of energy (in the form of 60 tons of gasoline) and directed it at the World Trade Towers. The energy was released in the form of heat that was held in those ready-made concrete ovens until the temperature rose to the melting point of steel (I know....I know gasoline doesn't burn that hot...but even wood fires can melt steel if their heat is allowed to accumulate in an properly insulated oven). The top segment of the building drops twelve feet like Thor's hammer on the lower segment initiating an inelastic sequence of "pancake" collisions that release more and more energy and proceeds essentially at the rate of free fall.

[robertlouis]

I said this two days ago in response to all the postulated engineering solutions and forgive me, I don't recall seeing a specific reply.

"Yep, and wasn't it just bad luck for them that two airliners happened to plough into the twin towers on the very same day?

Any chance now please? I'm not taking the piss, I really want to know. Thanks.

Thanks Trish. We're inching closer to the answer I'm still waiting for.

[Stavros]

I have a question for anyone who might know: Which tower was damaged by the bomb in '93?'

The car park under the North Tower.

[hippifried]

Thanks. That fits my scenario. North tower was the 2nd collapse, & already had structural damage at the foundation.

[Stavros]

It is quite well documented that many active hi-jackers and bombers have studied engineering, including OBL in his early days; doesn't mean they are experts, but it does mean they have some familiarity with engineering and science concepts.

[hippifried]

I really doubt that the collapsing towers were part of the master plan.

[Stavros]

I think that is fair, the point would be that they dont just dream up a target and then work towards it, but make finer calculations, although against that the bombings in London on the underground would be severe in any circumstance. Maybe they thought before 1993 the towers would fall sideways obliterating a lot of the district around the WTC. Apparently in the material seen so far from OBL's lair, they were targeting the railroad network.

[trish]

I heard a Morning Edition report (NPR) one day this week which reported that some of the plotters of the 9/11(including Bin Laden) attack were of the opinion that the burning gasoline would weaken the towers at the floor of impact and above causing a collapse of the upper segment. They did not think the towers would fall over sideways and with good reason: the planes simply could not impart enough sideways momentum to overcome the tremendous inertia of the towers. It is that inertia (i.e. mass) that brought it straight down upon itself. It may be the plotters hoped the top segment would slide down one side of the tower (the side that was initially penetrated) and scatter once it hit the ground...but the report I heard did not address that issue.

[Stavros]

Intersting point, Trish, as it does suggest a degree of research either before 1993 but certainly after that failure. But why the WTC? And why New York? Is there some potency to the phallic structures of the WTC that seeped into the unconscious of the plotters? New York is the financial centre of the USA, it has a large Jewish and a large liberal community too, so it has political resonance; it has the Statue of Liberty, it was the portal through which millions of immigrants entered America. Again, the targeting of the Pentagon and the White House (presumably the prefigured destination of United 93) speak for themselves. But if they wanted to inflict maximum loss of life, there are other ways of doing it. I guess its the need to be 'spectacular', rather than 'merely efficient' in the dispensation of mass murder. Maybe if these people spent their student years reading poetry none of this would have happened...

[trish]

Rachel Maddow (God forbid anyone listen to her opinion) claimed in a recent show that a perusal of Bin Laden's tapes over years shows an obsession with finances. He calculated the cost of the 9/11 mission and the cost incurred by the United States and measured the success of the mission by the difference. His tapes and missives demonstrate that he always measured success and failure in financial terms. The WTC were symbolic of the economic strength of the U.S. and perhaps more importantly their destruction would seriously interrupt and damage the U.S. economy. I tend to agree with Maddow on this point. Bin Laden learned from the U.S. itself, during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, just how to bleed the green from an empire's veins by keeping it occupied with expensive military engagements that have no promise of any payoff. Bush fell right into al Quaeda's trap, and there we remain to this day.

[hippifried]

Both attacks on the WTC were acts of terrorism. As far as achieving the stated goals of the terrorists, terrorism has a 100% failure rate. But when you look at it as terrorism for its own sake, these were highly successful attacks. The nation was terrified. The world was terrified. We're still acting like we're terrified, & it's been a decade. It's not about maximum kill per incident. It's about random unpredictability. It's about having people looking over their shouder, & suspecting their neighbors. It's about creating an irrational fear of a religion that nobody but its adherents seems to understand. It's about us spending ourselves into oblivion chasing our tails, trying to prevent the last attack. You know, the one that already happened. There's no rationality on either side of the terrorism.