Jesus as an openly gay man...

[Ben]

Jesus as an openly gay man

What if the newly found codices provided evidence of Jesus's same-sex activity? Michael Ruse imagines the implications.

The most astounding finding from the newly discovered lead codices (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12888421) is that Jesus Christ was unambiguously and openly gay. He and his disciples formed a same-sex coterie, bound by feelings of love and mutual support. There are recorded instances of same-sex activity – the "beloved disciple" plays a significant role – and there is affirmation of the joys of friendship and of living and loving together.
A whole new complexion is given to that rather puzzling passage where Jesus exhorts his followers to break family ties: "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14, 26). It seems clear now that this is less a negative repudiation of family and more a positive exhortation to join in affirmation of a gay lifestyle and love.
There is at least one new parable, that of the two young men. There are clear echoes of the relationship between David and Jonathan, for Jesus speaks of one young man having his soul "knit with the soul" of the other, and loving him "as his own soul". Intriguing is evidence that the Catholics might be closer to the truth about the status of Mary, the mother of Jesus, than are the Protestants. She has a much bigger role in the life of Jesus than many hitherto expected, with Jesus frequently returning home and making much of her.
Conversely, there is at least one incident when Jesus quarrels violently with Joseph, who shows great hostility and makes wild claims about "manliness". Before, one might have thought that, given Mary's virginity, Joseph's attitude was reflecting the ambiguities of his status in the family; but now it seems more probable that we have here a classic example of the Freudian triangle: over-possessive mother, hostile father, gay son.
Why have we known so little about all of this before? A newly discovered Pauline epistle, appropriately to the Athenians, suggests a major Platonic influence, particularly of the Republic. The classically educated Paul, who was himself gay, saw that same-sex activity was inimical to the success of Christianity in the highly homophobic societies in which he lived. Hence, same-sex affections and activity were concealed, to be known to and practised by only the leaders in secret – the guardians of Christianity as one might say. Obviously, this is a tradition that has flourished and lasted. It is not by chance that John Henry Newman is being made a saint.
Finally, the most important news is that nothing in the newly discovered codices challenges in any way the essential message of Christianity. Jesus was the messiah; he died on the cross for our sins; and through his death and resurrection made possible our eternal salvation. Our overriding obligation is to love God and we do this by loving our neighbours as ourselves. Christianity will never be the same again. Christianity will go on completely unchanged.

[Stavros]

Jesus as gay is not new -Kenneth Anger filmed it (badly of course) in the 1960s; when the Dead Sea Scrolls were being analysed, Jesus became a Hippie and his disciples the Essene equivalent of some wacky 1960s Haigh Ashbury love-in; then along came the Jesus-didnt-die brigade: Jesus survived the cross, went into hiding, started a family -all of course a secret kept by an exalted group and handed down from one exalted generation to another; or Michael Moorcock in 'Behold the Man' where Jesus was in fact an extra-terrestrial time traveller who, unhappily, crash landed in the vicinity of Nazareth during the rule of Caesar Augustus...
I will leave some space for the next set of useless interperations of writing which is hard enough to translate into English, never mind contemporary political correctness...

[trish]

Do you mean to say there are people who don't know Jesus was gay??

[Faldur]

Do you mean to say there are people who don't know Jesus was gay??

Yup there are... :dancing:

[theone1982]

I've heard this before. The argument for it I heard was at the time of his death Jesus was still unmarried, which was completely out of the ordinary for Jewish men at that time to be that old and still not married. It's possible. I mean, if you really look at it, the New Testament is really more of a work by Paul rather than Jesus or his disciples. Paul set the standard for many of the rules and regulations of Christianity in the period between Jesus's death and the council of Nicaea under Constantine.

[maaarc]

Ben, you are quite the little provocateur aren't you :) I don't agree with your world view on pretty much anything. however, I do enjoy your posts and appreciate your obvious intelligence - I have no idea if Yashua was gay or not but the codices are crude fakes. checkout some real scholars takes on the subject.

http://blog.bibleplaces.com/2011/04/lead-codices-update.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+BiblePlacesBlog+%28BiblePlace s+Blog%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher


http://michaelsheiser.com/PaleoBabble/2011/04/lead-codices-update/

[robertlouis]

Jesus as an openly gay man

What if the newly found codices provided evidence of Jesus's same-sex activity? Michael Ruse imagines the implications.

The most astounding finding from the newly discovered lead codices (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12888421) is that Jesus Christ was unambiguously and openly gay. He and his disciples formed a same-sex coterie, bound by feelings of love and mutual support. There are recorded instances of same-sex activity – the "beloved disciple" plays a significant role – and there is affirmation of the joys of friendship and of living and loving together.
A whole new complexion is given to that rather puzzling passage where Jesus exhorts his followers to break family ties: "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14, 26). It seems clear now that this is less a negative repudiation of family and more a positive exhortation to join in affirmation of a gay lifestyle and love.
There is at least one new parable, that of the two young men. There are clear echoes of the relationship between David and Jonathan, for Jesus speaks of one young man having his soul "knit with the soul" of the other, and loving him "as his own soul". Intriguing is evidence that the Catholics might be closer to the truth about the status of Mary, the mother of Jesus, than are the Protestants. She has a much bigger role in the life of Jesus than many hitherto expected, with Jesus frequently returning home and making much of her.
Conversely, there is at least one incident when Jesus quarrels violently with Joseph, who shows great hostility and makes wild claims about "manliness". Before, one might have thought that, given Mary's virginity, Joseph's attitude was reflecting the ambiguities of his status in the family; but now it seems more probable that we have here a classic example of the Freudian triangle: over-possessive mother, hostile father, gay son.
Why have we known so little about all of this before? A newly discovered Pauline epistle, appropriately to the Athenians, suggests a major Platonic influence, particularly of the Republic. The classically educated Paul, who was himself gay, saw that same-sex activity was inimical to the success of Christianity in the highly homophobic societies in which he lived. Hence, same-sex affections and activity were concealed, to be known to and practised by only the leaders in secret – the guardians of Christianity as one might say. Obviously, this is a tradition that has flourished and lasted. It is not by chance that John Henry Newman is being made a saint.
Finally, the most important news is that nothing in the newly discovered codices challenges in any way the essential message of Christianity. Jesus was the messiah; he died on the cross for our sins; and through his death and resurrection made possible our eternal salvation. Our overriding obligation is to love God and we do this by loving our neighbours as ourselves. Christianity will never be the same again. Christianity will go on completely unchanged.

Well, as a theory that knocks The Da Vinci Code into the long grass. And it's a lot better written too lol.

[hippifried]

If Jesus was openly gay, those swishy Romans probably would have let him slide.

[dderek123]

http://i.imgur.com/6mtBb.jpg

[Prospero]

There was also a famous poet who in the 1970s wrote a piece about a homosexual erotic encounter involving Jesus which was published in the UK paper gay News - and which led to his prosecution for Blasphemy. Thankfully times have moved on - though I wouldn't give much for the chance of survival of anyone who write something similar about Mohammed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/11/newsid_2499000/2499721.stm



The Love That Dares To Speak Its Name
By James Kirkup

As they took him from the cross
I, the centurion, took him in my arms-
the tough lean body
of a man no longer young,
beardless, breathless,
but well hung.

He was still warm.
While they prepared the tomb
I kept guard over him.
His mother and the Magdalen
had gone to fetch clean linen
to shroud his nakedness.

I was alone with him.
For the last time
I kissed his mouth. My tongue
found his, bitter with death.
I licked his wound-
the blood was harsh
For the last time
I laid my lips around the tip
of that great cock, the instrument
of our salvation, our eternal joy.
The shaft, still throbbed, anointed
with death's final ejaculation

I knew he'd had it off with other men-
with Herod's guards, with Pontius Pilate,
With John the Baptist, with Paul of Tarsus
with foxy Judas, a great kisser, with
the rest of the Twelve, together and apart.
He loved all men, body, soul and spirit. - even me.

So now I took off my uniform, and, naked,
lay together with him in his desolation,
caressing every shadow of his cooling flesh,
hugging him and trying to warm him back to life.
Slowly the fire in his thighs went out,
while I grew hotter with unearthly love.

It was the only way I knew to speak our love's proud name,
to tell him of my long devotion, my desire, my dread-
something we had never talked about. My spear, wet with blood,
his dear, broken body all open wounds,
and in each wound his side, his back,
his mouth - I came and came and came

as if each coming was my last.
And then the miracle possessed us.
I felt him enter into me, and fiercely spend
his spirit's finbal seed within my hole, my soul,
pulse upon pulse, unto the ends of the earth-
he crucified me with him into kingdom come.

-This is the passionate and blissful crucifixion
same-sex lovers suffer, patiently and gladly.
They inflict these loving injuries of joy and grace
one upon the other, till they dies of lust and pain
within the horny paradise of one another's limbs,
with one voice cry to heaven in a last divine release.

Then lie long together, peacefully entwined, with hope
of resurrection, as we did, on that green hill far away.
But before we rose again, they came and took him from me.
They knew not what we had done, but felt
no shame or anger. Rather they were glad for us,
and blessed us, as would he, who loved all men.

And after three long, lonely days, like years,
in which I roamed the gardens of my grief
seeking for him, my one friend who had gone from me,
he rose from sleep, at dawn, and showed himself to me before
all others. And took me to him with
the love that now forever dares to speak its name.

[Stavros]

Prospero -many thanks for reprinting Kirkup's embarrassing drivel, when it comes to poetry I think I will stick with people who know how to write it.

Christianity as an organised religion, as BMs have suggested, owes a lot to Paul, but I see no problem with someone living as a preacher in a patriarchal society who surrounds himself with men and who, 'married' to his vocation, does not take a wife. Women of course were present anyway, and the history of Christianity as a fertility cult which therefore idolised women was progressively removed from the narrative in the centuries after the crucifixion.

Indeed, if you want a more intriguing if regularly debunked theory, try Kamal Salibi's 'Who was Jesus? A Conspiracy in Jerusalem' or the earlier 'Secrets of the Bible People'. I first came across Salibi at one of his lectures in a Middle Eastern city [he is, of course, a charming and erudite man], and although I dont agree with his claims, he does make valid points which also point to the translation problem: Jordan, for example, is never referred to as a river in the New Testament; the Mediterranean Sea is never referred to either. Salibi points out that place names in Arabic and Hebrew are not only similar (for obvious reasons), but that geographically you can find more than one place with the same name all over the region (as is true also in the UK). Salibi has located the bible story in what we call the Hejaz, in western Arabia, which makes sense as they had long-established Jewish and Christian communities, the people who were such a major influence on Muhammad before his 'revelations'; and sees the link between Jesus and fertility cults in the name itself: Jesus = 'Issa = semen, and so on. We know that fertility cults persisted into the Islamic era because they were some of the idols that were kept for worship of the Beit al-Allah which sits in the middle of the Grand Mosque in Mecca -the interior of which is now emptied of its idols, except for the fragment of a remaining idol - the famous 'black stone' set in the corner of the building and 'worshipped' by Muslims on the Hajj or the Umra, and so on.

Jesus is whatever you want him to be: God made flesh; time-lord, gay activist, mysogynist, dope-smoking hippy, primitive communist, charlatan, just-another-Jewish-prophet who promised more than he could deliver; etc etc etc etc etc.

But I admit I have yet to see evidence that he was transgendered....

[Prospero]

Yes - it certainly is drivel Stavros. I was no defending it as poety. Your post meanwhile is fascinating. Genuine thanks.

[robertlouis]

The saddest thing about this is that people should consider this to constitute a slur or an attack.

Mind you, there are vested interests on the Christian right in all cultures, not just the US, who will go to the barricades - otherwise their entire ethos falls apart.

[russtafa]

The Jews have always said that Jesus was gay

[russtafa]

Oh and the Jews also say he was a hunch back who pimped protitutes

[trish]

He was and urged other men to be fishermen of men. What does one fish with? Worms of course. How gay can he be? Besides he spouted all that wimpy-pussy stuff about turning the other cheek, loving one's neighbor, sell everything you have and give the proceeds to the poor. I mean really...what manly hetero would espouse such nonsense? :) :) :)

[Faldur]

I do enjoy the comments here, defiantly get a laugh or two. But have to toss my two cents worth in. He was a loving God that saw we were broken. Who came down to live in our cesspool for over 30 years to pay the ultimate ransom for us, pretty cool guy in my opinion.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program..

http://entertainment.blogs.foxnews.com/files/2010/05/SouthParkJesus.gif

[onmyknees]

I believe in a living Jesus...Therefore I believe he may be the only man who truly appreciates Trish's sense of humor. Mortal man is not capable of such earthly miracles, but I'm sure he is !

[Stavros]

He was and urged other men to be fishermen of men. What does one fish with? Worms of course. How gay can he be? Besides he spouted all that wimpy-pussy stuff about turning the other cheek, loving one's neighbor, sell everything you have and give the proceeds to the poor. I mean really...what manly hetero would espouse such nonsense?

Trish, I think you know that Jesus was being mataphorical when he suggested to his disciples that they join him, and become 'fishers of men'. It has no more to do with sex than it does with trout.

Your point about the lack of 'manliness' in the figure of Jesus actually feeds into Nietzsche's critique of Christianity. Power is one of the central issues in Nietzsche's philosophy, and what upset him most about Christianity -or more specifically the model of Jesus -is his perception (the right one) that Jesus was a pacifist.

Nietzsche was appalled by the humility required of a Christian, the argument that you become more dignified as a human being when, in the face of violence, you reject it; when instead of becoming 'one' with your enemy by mimicking his hate, you offer love. When, instead of hoarding goods at the expense of people in need, you share. Nietzsche saw this as a weakness, but went further to argue it corroded the soul -his declamation: 'God is Dead! I bring you the Superman!' is ironic: there never was a God, and if you realise your full potential as a man, you will appear to have 'increased' your sense of self, or humanity (which is how one might translate the otherwise untranslatable 'Ubermensch'). Nietszche is thus also a legatee of the Hegelian concept of sublimation (Aufheben) but links it more to a combination of the material and emotional world we inhabit, where Hegel is more concerned with the soul. Both are focusing on how you develop yourself and reach into the well of knowledge to become better at living.

The original point about Jesus being gay remains unverifiable, and unnecessary

[trish]

Trish, I think you know that Jesus was being mataphorical ...I did have three smileys in my post.

It's worth pointing out that Nietzsche counted magnanimity among the basic attributes of a truly powerful individual. The difference, for Nietszche was the reason behind the magnanimous gesture; i.e. did it flow from an overabundance of personal power or from the need to humiliate oneself, perhaps before a god?

I'm a fan of both, Nietzsche and Jesus and a critic of both.

Jesus is to be commended for his demands that we attend to the poor, that we resist provocations to violence, that we love our neighbors, that we treat others as we would have them treat ourselves.
That he was a god, or the son of a god or that he turned water to wine, brought the dead to life, miraculously multiplied the loaves and fishes, or rose from the dead and ascended to heaven is of course all bullshit that conveniently distracts believers from his message.

Nietzsche is a dangerous fellow and easy to misunderstand and misapply. Misinterpretations of Nietzsche have supported antisemitism, Nazism, white supremacism, libertarianism and a slew of other nastyisms. On the other hand Nietzsche had a keen analytical mind that saw to the heart of nineteenth century romanticism, religion and morality. His writings have helped many shed the shackles of inculturation, to question and think for themselves.

In any case, Jesus was gay. Christ, he pranced around with long flowing curly hair wearing sandals and a gown! And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that...unless you're a red blooded American fundamentalist Christian.

[Stavros]

Christ, he pranced around with long flowing curly hair wearing sandals and a gown!

!!!!!!!

[hippifried]

Nietzsche was a blowhard. I don't know about y'all, but that kind of long winded bullshit puts me right to sleep. Nobody ever learns to thinkl for themselves by getting tangled up in somebody else's philosophy. You can get as philosophically in depth by talking to your barber, manicurist, cab driver, or bartender. The most telling weakness in all philosophical demegoguery is the "philosopher" denying or lying about human nature, & making excuses for immorality.

As for Jesus: I wonder if Mary Magdeline was merely his alter ego. Maybe that's why the gospel tellers didn't talk about her dealings with the other 12.

[Stavros]

You can get as philosophically in depth by talking to your barber, manicurist, cab driver, or bartender

Sorry I can't agree with this: where I have my hair cut you have a choice of conversation: football, football, or football (as in soccer). I loved the taxi drivers in China because they mostly dont speak English, in London they are a unique species of pest infected with mindless logorrhea, elsewhere mostly Indians who talk about traffic and the weather. I think your real point is that formal philosophy is too wrapped up in its own narrative, and most people cant understand it. Nietzsche is one of many oddball philosophers whose books have had an appeal beyond the academy because of the poetic, imaginative prose that he uses, as far removed from, say a dry English philosopher like AJ Ayer or even the moderately accessible, and brilliant American Richard Rorty. Ayn Rand, who is 'flavour of the month' for tea party radicals is a failed philosopher who wrote prose masquerading as fiction, taking Nietzsche's individualism to a different place, somewhere between economics and politics, its hard to say. But yes, the idea that some people have, that Philosophy, because it is 'difficult' is the realm of the truly great, is a fallacy invented by, mostly, philosophers -but I would rather connect with Hegel and Wittgenstein than listen to a taxi driver ranting on about taxes...

[hippifried]

Yeah, well I can do without any of the overly pompous theoretical bullshit that never works in practice. I find most of it tedious & disinteresting. I'm not impressed with those who claim to speak for humanity any more than those claim to speak for God. Humans are complex, & there's no accurate map.

[natina]

like there was NO! Sodom and Gomorrah


and back then it was more taboo to have sex outside of marriage.


back then Nowhere could two men marry
--------------------------------------------------


like there was NO! Sodom and Gomorrah


and back then it was more taboo to have sex outside of marriage.


back then Nowhere could two men marry


--------------------------------------------------


like there was NO! Sodom and Gomorrah


and back then it was more taboo to have sex outside of marriage.


back then Nowhere could two men marry
--------------------------------------------------


like there was NO! Sodom and Gomorrah


and back then it was more taboo to have sex outside of marriage.


back then Nowhere could two men marry

[russtafa]

Two men could marry if you were from greece

[w1s2x3]

Nice troll. E for effort.

[natina]

Sodom (Hebrew (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Hebrew_language): סְדוֹם, Modern (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Modern_Israeli_Hebrew) Sədom Tiberian (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Tiberian_vocalization) Səḏôm, Greek (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Ancient_Greek_language) Σόδομα Sódoma) and Gomorrah (Hebrew (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Hebrew_language): עֲמוֹרָה, Modern (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Modern_Israeli_Hebrew) ʿAmora Tiberian (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Tiberian_vocalization) Ġəmôrāh/ʿĂmôrāh, Greek (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Ancient_Greek_language) Γόμοῤῥα Gómorrha) are cities that originated from the Book of Genesis (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Book_of_Genesis) and later expounded upon throughout the Hebrew Bible (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Hebrew_Bible), the New Testament (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/New_Testament) and Deuterocanonical (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Deuterocanonical) sources.
According to the Torah (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Torah), the Kingdoms of Sodom and Gomorrah were allied with the cities of Admah (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Admah), Zeboim (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Zeboim_(biblical)) and Zoar (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Zoara). These five cities, also known as the "cities of the plain," were situated on the River Jordan (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/River_Jordan) plain in the southern region of the land of Canaan (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Canaan). The Jordan River plain has been compared to that of the Garden of Eden,[Gen.10:13 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Genesis%2010:13;&version=NIV;)] being a land well watered and green, suitable for grazing livestock. Divine judgment by Yahweh (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Yahweh) was then passed upon Sodom and Gomorrah along with two other neighboring cities that were completely consumed by fire and brimstone (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Sulfur). Neighboring Zoar was the only township to be spared during that day of judgment.[Deut.29:23 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Deuteronomy%2029:23;&version=NIV;)][Gen.10:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Genesis%2010:19;&version=NIV;)]
In Christianity (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Christianity) and Islamic (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Islam) traditions, Sodom and Gomorrah have become synonymous with impenitent sin, and their fall with a proverbial manifestation of God's wrath.[Jude 1:7 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Jude%201:7;&version=ESV;)][1] (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/#cite_note-0) Sodom and Gomorrah have also been used as metaphors (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Metaphor) for vice (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Vice) and homosexuality (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Homosexuality) viewed as a deviation. The story has therefore given rise to words in several languages, including the English (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/English_language) word "sodomy (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Sodomy)", used in so-called sodomy laws (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Sodomy_law) to mean basically any sexual act deemed unnatural.[2] (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/#cite_note-1)

JudgementIn Genesis 18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Genesis%2018;&version=ESV;), Yahweh sends three men, thought by most commentators to have been angels appearing as men,[4] (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/#cite_note-3) to Abraham in the plains of Mamre.
After the angels received the hospitality of Abraham and Sarah, his wife, Yahweh reveals to Abraham that he will destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, because their cry is great, "and because their sin is very grievous."[Gen 18:20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Gen%2018:20;&version=ESV;)] In response, Abraham reverently inquires of Yahweh if he would spare the city if 50 righteous people were found in it, to which Yahweh agrees he would not destroy it after each request, for the sake of the righteous yet dwelling therein. Abraham then inquires of Yahweh for mercy at lower numbers (first 45, then 40, then 30, then 20, and finally at 10), with Yahweh agreeing each time.[Gen 18:22-33 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Gen%2018:22-33;&version=ESV;)][5] (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/#cite_note-4) Two of the angels of God proceed to Sodom and are met by Abraham's nephew (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Nephew) Lot (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Lot_(Bible)), who convinces the angels to lodge with him, and they eat with his family.
Genesis 19:4-5 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Genesis%2019:4-5;&version=NIV;) describes what followed, which confirms its end (RSV (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Revised_Standard_Version)):

But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house; and they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them (KJV (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/King_James_Version): know them, RSV (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Revised_Standard_Version): know them, NIV (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/New_International_Version): can have sex with them, NJB (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/New_Jerusalem_Bible): can have intercourse with them)."

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/Nuremberg_chronicles_f_21r_.png/300px-Nuremberg_chronicles_f_21r_.png (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/File:Nuremberg_chronicles_f_21r_.png) http://bits.wikimedia.org/skins-1.17/common/images/magnify-clip.png (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/File:Nuremberg_chronicles_f_21r_.png)
The Sodom and Gomorrah motif from the Nuremberg Chronicle (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Nuremberg_Chronicle) by Hartmann Schedel (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Hartmann_Schedel), 1493. Note Lot's wife, already transformed into a salt pillar, in the center.


In response, Lot (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Lot_(Bible)) refuses to give his guests to the inhabitants of Sodom and, instead, offers them his two virgin daughters to "do to them whatever you like." [Gen 19:8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Gen%2019:8;&version=NASB;)]NASB However, they refuse this offer and threaten to do worse to Lot than they would have done to his guests, and then lunged toward Lot to break down the door. Lot's angelic guests rescue him and strike the men with blindness.
Then, (not having found even 10 righteous people in the city) they command Lot to gather his family and leave, revealing that they were sent to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. As they make their escape, the angels command Lot and his family not to look back under any circumstance. However, as Sodom and Gomorrah are destroyed by Yahweh with fire and brimstone (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Fire_and_brimstone), Lot's wife (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Lot%27s_wife) looks back at the city in defiance of the angels' specific command, and she becomes a pillar of salt.


Other references[edit (http://www.hungangels.com/w/index.php?title=Sodom_and_Gomorrah&action=edit&section=5)] Moses

Moses in talking with the Israelites (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Israelite) during the Exodus (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/The_Exodus), refers to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in Deuteronomy 29:22-23 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Deuteronomy%2029:22-23;&version=NIV;):

"Your children who follow you in later generations and foreigners who come from distant lands will see the calamities that have fallen on the land and the diseases with which the LORD has afflicted it. The whole land will be a burning waste of salt and sulfur—nothing planted, nothing sprouting, no vegetation growing on it. It will be like the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Admah) and Zeboyim (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Zeboyim), which the LORD overthrew in fierce anger." - NIV

See also: Deuteronomy 32:32-33 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Deuteronomy%2032:32-33;&version=NIV;)
[edit (http://www.hungangels.com/w/index.php?title=Sodom_and_Gomorrah&action=edit&section=6)] Major Prophets

In Isaiah 1:9-10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Isaiah%201:9-10;&version=ESV;), Isaiah 3:9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Isaiah%203:9;&version=ESV;), Isaiah 13:19-22 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Isaiah%2013:19-22;&version=ESV;) the prophet addresses people as from Sodom and Gomorrah, associates Sodom with shameless sinning and tells Babylon that it will end like Sodom and Gomorrah.
In Jeremiah 23:14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Jeremiah%2023:14;&version=ESV;), Jeremiah 49:17-18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Jeremiah%2049:17-18;&version=ESV;), Jeremiah 50:39-40 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Jeremiah%2050:39-40;&version=ESV;) and Lamentations 4:6 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Lamentations%204:6;&version=ESV;) the prophet associates Sodom and Gomorrah with adultery and lies, prophesies the fate of Edom, south of the Dead Sea, prophesies the fate of Babylon and uses Sodom as a comparison.
In Ezekiel 16:48-50 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Ezekiel%2016:48-50;&version=NIV;) God compares Jerusalem (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Jerusalem) to Sodom, saying "Sodom never did what you and your daughters have done." He explains that the sin of Sodom was that "She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me." God then sent an angel to rain hell fire and brimstone down on Sodom and Gomorrah.
[edit (http://www.hungangels.com/w/index.php?title=Sodom_and_Gomorrah&action=edit&section=7)] Minor Prophets

In Amos 4:1-11 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Amos%204:1-11;&version=NIV;) God tells the Israelites to have warned them and treated them like Sodom and Gomorrah, still they did not repent.
In Zephaniah 2:9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Zephaniah%202:9;&version=NIV;) the prophet tells Moab and Ammon, southeast and northeast of the Dead Sea, that they will end up like Sodom and Gomorrah.
[edit (http://www.hungangels.com/w/index.php?title=Sodom_and_Gomorrah&action=edit&section=8)] New Testament

In Matthew 10:1-15 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Matthew%2010:1-15;&version=NIV;), cf. Luke 10:1-12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Luke%2010:1-12;&version=NIV;), Jesus declares certain cities more damnable than Sodom and Gomorrah, due to their response to Jesus' disciples, in the light of greater grace (RSV (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Revised_Standard_Version)):

"And if any one will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. Truly, I say to you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomor'rah than for that town."
In Matthew 11:20-24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Matthew%2011:20-24;&version=NIV;) Jesus prophesies the fate of some cities where he did some of his works (RSV (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Revised_Standard_Version)):

"And you, Caper'na-um, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I tell you that it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you."
In Luke 17:28-30 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Luke%2017:28-30;&version=ESV;) Jesus compares his second-coming to the judgment of Sodom and Gomorrah (RSV (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Revised_Standard_Version)):

"Likewise as it was in the days of Lot—they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built, but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom fire and sulphur rained from heaven and destroyed them all—so will it be on the day when the Son of man is revealed."
In Romans 9:29 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Romans%209:29;&version=NIV;) Paul quotes Isaiah 1:9-10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Isaiah%201:9-10;&version=ESV;) (RSV (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Revised_Standard_Version)): "And as Isaiah predicted, 'If the Lord of hosts had not left us children, we would have fared like Sodom and been made like Gomor'rah.'"
In 2Peter 2:4-10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=2Peter%202:4-10;&version=ESV;) Peter uses the time of Sodom and Lot in his description of the time of the second coming of Jesus.
Jude 1:7 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Jude%201:7;&version=ESV;) records that both Sodom and Gomorrah were "giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
Revelation 11:7-8 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Revelation%2011:7-8;&version=ESV;) makes an allegorical use of Sodom when it describes the places where two prophets will descend during the Apocalypse (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Apocalypse).
[edit (http://www.hungangels.com/w/index.php?title=Sodom_and_Gomorrah&action=edit&section=9)] Deuterocanonical references

Wisdom 10:6 refers to Five Cities, including Sodom, or Pentapolis: "Wisdom rescued a righteous man when the ungodly were perishing; he escaped the fire that descended on the Five Cities."
Sodom was one of a group of five towns, the Pentapolis (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Pentapolis) (Wisdom (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Book_of_Wisdom) 10:6 (http://bibref.hebtools.com/?book=%20Wisdom&verse=10:6&src=NAB)): Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, Zeboim and Bela (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Bela)—also called Zoar (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Zoara).[Gen 19:22 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Gen%2019:22;&version=ESV;)] The Pentapolis region is also collectively referred to as "the Cities of the Plain" [13:12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Genesis%2013:12;&version=ESV;)]
[edit (http://www.hungangels.com/w/index.php?title=Sodom_and_Gomorrah&action=edit&section=10)] World views

[edit (http://www.hungangels.com/w/index.php?title=Sodom_and_Gomorrah&action=edit&section=11)] Jewish views

Classical Jewish texts are seen by many as not stressing the homosexual aspect of the attitude of the inhabitants of Sodom as much as their cruelty and lack of hospitality (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Hospitality) to the "stranger."[6] (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/#cite_note-The_Inhospitable_Sodomites-5) The Jewish Encyclopaedia (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Jewish_Encyclopaedia)[7] (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/#cite_note-6) has information on the importance of hospitality to the Jewish people. The people of Sodom were seen as guilty of many other significant sins. Rabbinic (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Rabbi) writings affirm that the Sodomites also committed economic crimes, blasphemy and bloodshed.[8] (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/#cite_note-7) One of the worst was to give money or even gold ingots to beggars, after inscribing their names on them, and then subsequently refusing to sell them food. The unfortunate stranger would end up starving and after his death, the people who gave him the money would reclaim it.
A rabbinic tradition, described in the Mishnah (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Mishnah), postulates that the sin of Sodom was related to property: Sodomites believed that "what is mine is mine, and what is yours is yours" (Abot), which is interpreted as a lack of compassion. Another rabbinic tradition is that these two wealthy cities treated visitors in a sadistic fashion. One major crime done to strangers was almost identical to that of Procrustes (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Procrustes) in Greek mythology. This would be the story of the "bed" that guests to Sodom were forced to sleep in: if they were too short they were stretched to fit it, and if they were too tall, they were cut up (indeed, in Hebrew (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Hebrew) and Yiddish (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Yiddish), the corresponding term for a Procrustean bed (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Procrustean_bed) is a "Sodom bed").
In another incident, Eliezer (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Eliezer), Abraham's servant, went to visit Lot in Sodom and got in a dispute with a Sodomite over a beggar, and was hit in the forehead with a stone, making him bleed. The Sodomite demanded Eliezer pay him for the service of bloodletting (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Bloodletting), and a Sodomite judge sided with the Sodomite. Eliezer then struck the judge in the forehead with a stone and asked the judge to pay the Sodomite.
The Talmud (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Talmud) and the book of Jasher (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Book_of_Jasher_(Biblical_references)) also recount two incidents of a young girl (one involved Lot's daughter Paltith) who gave some bread to a poor man who had entered the city. When the townspeople discovered their acts of kindness, they burned Paltith and smeared the other girl's body with honey and hung her from the city wall until she was eaten by bees. (Sanhedrin (http://www.hungangels.com/wiki/Sanhedrin_(Talmud)) 109a.) It is this gruesome event, and her scream in particular, the Talmud concludes, that are alluded to in the verse that heralds the city’s destruction: "So[9] (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/#cite_note-8) said, 'Because the outcry of Sodom and Gomorrah has become great, and because their sin has been very grave, I will descend and see...'"[Gen 18:20-21 (http://www.biblegateway.com/bible?passage=Gen%2018:20-21;&version=JP;)]
A modern orthodox position is one that holds, “The paradigmatic instance of such aberrant behavior is found in the demand of the men of Sodom to 'know' the men visiting Lot, the nephew of Abraham, thus lending their name to the practice of 'sodomy'."[10] (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/#cite_note-9)

Sodom and Gomorrah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:John_Martin_-_Sodom_and_Gomorrah.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/John_Martin_-_Sodom_and_Gomorrah.jpg/300px-John_Martin_-_Sodom_and_Gomorrah.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/e/e1/John_Martin_-_Sodom_and_Gomorrah.jpg/300px-John_Martin_-_Sodom_and_Gomorrah.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah)


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/John_Martin_-_Sodom_and_Gomorrah.jpg/800px-John_Martin_-_Sodom_and_Gomorrah.jpg



like there was NO! Sodom and Gomorrah



and back then it was more taboo to have sex outside of marriage.


back then Nowhere could two men marry
--------------------------------------------------


like there was NO! Sodom and Gomorrah


and back then it was more taboo to have sex outside of marriage.


back then Nowhere could two men marry



--------------------------------------------------


like there was NO! Sodom and Gomorrah


and back then it was more taboo to have sex outside of marriage.


back then Nowhere could two men marry
--------------------------------------------------


like there was NO! Sodom and Gomorrah


and back then it was more taboo to have sex outside of marriage.



back then Nowhere could two men marry

[Stavros]

Natina I don't know why your posts contain more repetition than a rap album, but as far as the Sodom and Gomorrah thing goes look at it as a moral warning in which sex for self-indulgent pleasure if contrasted to sex for procreation -its not much more than that, and has been repeated in various forms for millenia -consider the contrast between working women in the war economy of the US in the 1940s, and their 'relegation' to the kitchen and the bedroom in the 1950s -none of which has anything to do with the myth of Christ's sexuality.

[hippifried]

...Then Lot came into Sodom, & Sodom went down on Gomorrah...

So much perversion in that book.


Wolf's song:

Sodomy
fellatio
cunnilingus
pederasty
Father, why do these words sound so nasty?
masterbation can be fun
join the holy orgy Kama Sutra, everyone.

~Rado & Ragni~

[Cuchulain]

...Then Lot came into Sodom, & Sodom went down on Gomorrah...

So much perversion in that book.


Wolf's song:

Sodomy
fellatio
cunnilingus
pederasty
Father, why do these words sound so nasty?
masterbation can be fun
join the holy orgy Kama Sutra, everyone.

~Rado & Ragni~

I couldn't find a vid with the Broadway cast. Shame, really.
YouTube - Hair-Sodomy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzwGfP98vGM)