What do you make of this clip??...

[smoothy]

It's video clip of a girl being tasered by a police officer.

http://www.thatvideosite.com/view/479.html

this one bothers me?

[BlackAdder]

On the flip side, its better then him beating her down the old fashioned way...with his nightstick.

[smoothy]

true, but beating her down for doing what?

[NickTheQuick]

Look at this outrage.

Say no to crack!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.uniquepeek.com/fusion_pages/index.php?page_id=245

[BeardedOne]

Speaking as one who has been stopped more times than he can count (And for stoopid shit like the cop wanting to get a closer look at the odd car I was driving), there are some basic rules:

1) Never get out of the car unless they tell you to (A friend was almost shot when he burst out and ran up to the patrol car to apologize for speeding).

2) The one with the gun is always right.

3) No matter how righteous you feel, always say "Yes sir/ma'am" to the nice officer.

4) The one with the gun is always right.

5) Keep your hands in sight at all times. The cops are always looking at your glovebox and around the seats (One asked me about the "gun" under my seat, having seen the lug end of a tire iron sticking out).

6) The one with the gun is always right.

7) If it's dark out, turn on the interior light. The more these guys see, the less mystery to make them nervous.

8) The one with the gun is always right.

9) If they say they're going to arrest you, they =ARE= going to arrest you. If they have to club your ass to do so it will only piss them off to have to haul the dead weight back to the car. Better that you should walk on your own.

Lastly, the most important rule:

The one with the gun is always right.

[romeodred]

Handled properly.... imagine if there was no camera... She'd be dead for resisting arrest

[blckhaze]

Speaking as one who has been stopped more times than he can count (And for stoopid shit like the cop wanting to get a closer look at the odd car I was driving), there are some basic rules:

1) Never get out of the car unless they tell you to (A friend was almost shot when he burst out and ran up to the patrol car to apologize for speeding).

2) The one with the gun is always right.

3) No matter how righteous you feel, always say "Yes sir/ma'am" to the nice officer.

4) The one with the gun is always right.

5) Keep your hands in sight at all times. The cops are always looking at your glovebox and around the seats (One asked me about the "gun" under my seat, having seen the lug end of a tire iron sticking out).

6) The one with the gun is always right.

7) If it's dark out, turn on the interior light. The more these guys see, the less mystery to make them nervous.

8) The one with the gun is always right.

9) If they say they're going to arrest you, they =ARE= going to arrest you. If they have to club your ass to do so it will only piss them off to have to haul the dead weight back to the car. Better that you should walk on your own.

Lastly, the most important rule:

The one with the gun is always right.

never truer words especially number 1 and 5

[smoothy]

listen guys, I just don't get it?

The cop just seems way too happy to zap her with no sound reason and just for the hell of it? What was she actually doing to deserve it? Was she being violent? was she being aggressive? was she lashing out at them? All that happened was he got his taser out just because she wasnt as sharp or quick as he liked for her to get out of the car. I mean where the fuck was she gonna go, what the fuck was she going to do....... oh oh oh she was phoning her mum! big deal.
He just wanted to zap her for the hell of it. He even made up some shit about her lashing out at his officer buddy just for the camera!! He knew perfectly well that he didnt have to zap her and he just did it cos he could.

Yes they've got bloody good reason to use them in certain situations and if I was in their shoes it would be there as a backup, just in case. But that situation just didnt call for it? What if that was your mother/girlfriend/ sister, etc... and you'd just seen that footage afterwards.... I got a feeling you'd be more than outraged??

just seems wrong to me?

[blckhaze]

listen guys, I just don't get it?

The cop just seems way too happy to zap her with no sound reason and just for the hell of it? What was she actually doing to deserve it? Was she being violent? was she being aggressive? was she lashing out at them? All that happened was he got his taser out just because she wasnt as sharp or quick as he liked for her to get out of the car. I mean where the fuck was she gonna go, what the fuck was she going to do....... oh oh oh she was phoning her mum! big deal.
He just wanted to zap her for the hell of it. He even made up some shit about her lashing out at his officer buddy just for the camera!! He knew perfectly well that he didnt have to zap her and he just did it cos he could.

Yes they've got bloody good reason to use them in certain situations and if I was in their shoes it would be there as a backup, just in case. But that situation just didnt call for it? What if that was your mother/girlfriend/ sister, etc... and you'd just seen that footage afterwards.... I got a feeling you'd be more than outraged??

just seems wrong to me?

trust me smoothy. when you meet some of the people here in the US, youd understand a little bit. Some people, especially minorities, have little respect for authorities. Her attitude was unnessecary. she might have gotten of with a warning had she cooperated and shown some home training.

[InHouston]

Speeding, tail light out, driving on a suspended license (which is a jailable offense), copping an attitude with the police, and taking a swing at a police officer ... looks like she got exactly what she asked for.

If her momma had smacked her little snotty ass around more when she was a child, she would have a more respectful attitude towards others, especially when she's in the wrong.

I noticed there was somewhat of an improvement in her attitude after she got lit up by the taser gun.

Heh heh ... love it.

[jamans]

that was funny....he warned her at least 4 times to drop the phone & get out...guess that phone call was more important. Kinda sounded like she had a orgasm after getting tased..........

[MoonAndStar]

that was funny....he warned her at least 4 times to drop the phone & get out...guess that phone call was more important. Kinda sounded like she had a orgasm after getting tased..........

LOL.... :lol:

[shemalejunky]

He should have shot her when she started whining and moaning.

[The American Nightmare]

listen guys, I just don't get it? She was driving on a suspended license. One way or another, she was going to jail.

The smart and simple thing to do (besides the obvious choice of not driving while your license is suspended) would be to allow the officer to arrest you. She failed to comply with the officer's lawful order. At that point he must use force to place her under arrest.

The taser is an excellent tool. It's great at making a person comply through pain, while also being one of the least likely to cause serious injury. If he didn't use the taser, he would have had to outmuscle her, and that likely means a trip to the hospital.

These situations pop up every once and a while. Whenever I feel that the officer was justified in his actions, I have the same question, and never get an answer:

What should he have done differently?

[TomSelis]

It's called escalation of force, the more you resist, the more the police can do to you to make you comply. Why some people don't understand this concept....is mind boggling.

[Thick_Bar]

Chris Rock gives all the right advices...........

http://media.putfile.com/Chris-Rock---How-To-Not-Get-Ur-Ass-Kicke

[kennbo]

The cop was being a total asshole. Instead of coming across as Rambo, barking orders at her, he could have used a little psychology and got her to comply. Think about it, "you get more flies with honey than with vinegar". Sure, she was wrong for speeding and driving with a suspended liscense, but in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't murder, rape, armed robbery, or some other major felony. That cop is representative of a subset of police I label as the "high school bully" type. I've encountered other officers who I respect for their intelligence and ability to difuse a situation and behave like resonable human beings. The latter type would not have had to resort to such brutish behavior with this woman.
As far as the phone call goes, she was probably calling someone to pickup her vehicle so she could avoid towing and impound fees. Again, if the officer was just a bit understanding of the community he was policing, he would have realized this is a fairly common action. A similar thing happened a few months ago when a guy who was being pulled over by a state cop fled and ended up dead trying to get his car back to his house.

[Quinn]

Speeding, tail light out, driving on a suspended license (which is a jailable offense), copping an attitude with the police, and taking a swing at a police officer ... looks like she got exactly what she asked for.

If her momma had smacked her little snotty ass around more when she was a child, she would have a more respectful attitude towards others, especially when she's in the wrong.

I noticed there was somewhat of an improvement in her attitude after she got lit up by the taser gun.

Heh heh ... love it.

Serious cosign.

-Quinn

[blckhaze]

Speeding, tail light out, driving on a suspended license (which is a jailable offense), copping an attitude with the police, and taking a swing at a police officer ... looks like she got exactly what she asked for.

If her momma had smacked her little snotty ass around more when she was a child, she would have a more respectful attitude towards others, especially when she's in the wrong.

I noticed there was somewhat of an improvement in her attitude after she got lit up by the taser gun.

Heh heh ... love it.

Serious cosign.

-Quinn

i third that

[The American Nightmare]

The cop was being a total asshole. Instead of coming across as Rambo, barking orders at her, he could have used a little psychology and got her to comply. Watch the video again. She acts aggressively at the start, before the cop can even get to her car. She's acting this way because she knows she's going to jail, and panic sets in. You can clearly see it throughout the video. Do you honestly believe that he would have been able to calm her down? We're lucky she didn't drive off and run over somebody.

By the way, what's up with all that "It's illegal for you to arrest me while you're driving" stuff?

[InHouston]

The cop was being a total asshole. Instead of coming across as Rambo, barking orders at her, he could have used a little psychology and got her to comply. Think about it, "you get more flies with honey than with vinegar". Sure, she was wrong for speeding and driving with a suspended liscense, but in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't murder, rape, armed robbery, or some other major felony. That cop is representative of a subset of police I label as the "high school bully" type. I've encountered other officers who I respect for their intelligence and ability to difuse a situation and behave like resonable human beings. The latter type would not have had to resort to such brutish behavior with this woman.
As far as the phone call goes, she was probably calling someone to pickup her vehicle so she could avoid towing and impound fees. Again, if the officer was just a bit understanding of the community he was policing, he would have realized this is a fairly common action. A similar thing happened a few months ago when a guy who was being pulled over by a state cop fled and ended up dead trying to get his car back to his house.

Fuck her. If I was that cop, I wouldn't have even tazed her. I would have jerked her out of the car by the hair of her head and slammed her into handcuffs that Ajax wouldn't scrub off. I'm behind police officers all the way. They go to work every day and risk taking bullets for people to fight crime, and I wouldn't put up with someone resisting like she did either. I've seen videos where a cop tries to be more patient and understanding with some beligerant person like her, and then suddenly they pull a gun and shoot the cop. And for what? A suspended license. Yeah, that's a valid reason to make someone a widow and leave children fatherless. Fuck that bitch.

Remember ... the cops you criticize are the ones who will come running to your aide and risk their own lives when someone is trying to kill you.

Remember that, and be more appreciative of what police officers do in the line of duty for you and others.

[Kramer]

The cop did everything correct, she did not follow orders.

Why the mystery?

She didnt follow orders because she was BREAKING THE LAW!!

If he dont taser her how do you people suppose he gets her ass out of the car? Say "pretty please with sugar on top"?!?!?

[JonathanX]

Remember ... the cops you criticize are the ones who will come running to your aide and risk their own lives when someone is trying to kill you.

Remember that, and be more appreciative of what police officers do in the line of duty for you and others.

LOL......yeah....sure:

http://cgb.obworld.com/index.cfm?d=news&p=topic&topic=News

[ManOfSteel]

I fucking HATE PIGS! Plus im from SF so my statement can be justified.

[dreamerts]

For sure she had an orgasm ... sounded like me the first time i tried being a bottom to a 10inch monster ... cried and frailed like all shit trying to take that monster. 3 years later and I still refuse to be bottomed by any TS no matter how small they are. :)

[smoothy]

I guess it comes down to the fact that you guys in the USA have more guns and maybe more lunatics on the streets than we do in the UK? We just don't have the level of crime, murder, shotting incidents that you guys have? No ordinary/regular guy in the UK has ever seen a gun, let alone hold one or even shoot one? So that sort of scenario in the clip doesn't really happen over here and seems odd to me?

I can fully understand that the cops over there have to be on their guard at all times and don't take any shit. Although I do still feel that individual cop just couldn't be bothered to wait the extra 10 secs for her to step out of the car and being trigger happy, he just zapped her! Just my opinion?

Out of interest, how many of you actually own a firearm? I presume you have to be given a gun licence for it? and if so, do you carry it around with you on a regular/daily basis?

[brickcitybrother]

Why is it that ANYONE (even another cop) believes that they can win a roadside stop. You cannot! Period. Why not obey the officer... even if he is wrong - there's no one there but you and he - so guess who's gonna win.

Isn't the answer to simply comply and seek counsel later. What's the alternative? Come out 'blasting'' to assert your rights?

Damn - when will folks learn.

[kennbo]

A "big picture" view of the entire incident shows that we live in a nation of brutes, period. She was not being as rational as she should have been, and the officer was also not behaving as rationally as he could have been. The overwhelming opinion in this thread is not one of shock at the bruttishness, but rather, a pathetic acceptance of bruttish behavior. Is it any wonder that we still debate evolution, when so few of us have nervous systems that have evolved much above that of Neanderthals? Those who deny evolution do so because they understand they would find themselves a couple of places down in the evolutionary chain, just like those two in the video, as well as the brutes who are not offended by it.

[The American Nightmare]

A "big picture" view of the entire incident shows that we live in a nation of brutes, period. She was not being as rational as she should have been, and the officer was also not behaving as rationally as he could have been. The overwhelming opinion in this thread is not one of shock at the bruttishness, but rather, a pathetic acceptance of bruttish behavior. Is it any wonder that we still debate evolution, when so few of us have nervous systems that have evolved much above that of Neanderthals? Those who deny evolution do so because they understand they would find themselves a couple of places down in the evolutionary chain, just like those two in the video, as well as the brutes who are not offended by it. Wow. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is sub-human?

Get back at me when you have something of substance to add to the discussion.

[InHouston]

Out of interest, how many of you actually own a firearm? I presume you have to be given a gun licence for it?

I own two pistols and 2 shotguns, and own more in the future.

In Texas, you don't have to have a license to have or carry a firearm (concealed or not) on your premises. However to conceal a handgun away from home, you need a license. But in Texas you can ride around with a loaded rifle or shotgun in your car in full view and reach, and its perfectly legal.


and if so, do you carry it around with you on a regular/daily basis?

Always. Never leave home without it. Just last night I was talking to a fellow I just met among some friends. He's 19, attends the University of Houston, and delivers pizza in his spare time. Nice guy, very clean cut, and an all around good kid. He's called on to deliver two pizzas to an apartment complex that's kind of 'ghetto'. He makes it about halfway down the sidewalk to the apartment he's supposed to deliver to, and 4 guys jump out of the bushes, beat him up, empty his pockets of his money, and proceeded to keep beating on him until he managed to scramble to his feet and run. Just as he got to his feet to run, one guy swiped a knife at him. I lifted my shirt and showed him my Glock pistol strapped to my waiste and told him, "This levels the playing field my friend."

Now, one or more members on this board will refer to me as a typical Texas gun nut. But those pinheads are the ones who will crawl under their bed like a rat when a burglar is in their house, and pray like a right-wing republican to God that the bad guy will just go away. Those people often end up in the obituary as another crime statistic. Whereas, us gun owners will put just deserts on his ass.

[scipio]

Now, one or more members on this board will refer to me as a typical Texas gun nut. But those pinheads are the ones who will crawl under their bed like a rat when a burglar is in their house, and pray like a right-wing republican to God that the bad guy will just go away. Those people often end up in the obituary as another crime statistic. Whereas, us gun owners will put just deserts on his ass.

I'm with you on this one. I'm no vigilante but anyone who relies solely on the police for protection is dreaming. The police can't be everywhere - and we dont WANT them everywhere. Why shouldn't normal citizens be responsible for protecting themselves? I don't think there's anything nutty about THAT.

[buzztongue]

Personally, I much prefer the violet wand! Taser a bit much for me!

[chefmike]

Out of interest, how many of you actually own a firearm? I presume you have to be given a gun licence for it?

I own two pistols and 2 shotguns, and own more in the future.

In Texas, you don't have to have a license to have or carry a firearm (concealed or not) on your premises. However to conceal a handgun away from home, you need a license. But in Texas you can ride around with a loaded rifle or shotgun in your car in full view and reach, and its perfectly legal.


and if so, do you carry it around with you on a regular/daily basis?

Always. Never leave home without it. Just last night I was talking to a fellow I just met among some friends. He's 19, attends the University of Houston, and delivers pizza in his spare time. Nice guy, very clean cut, and an all around good kid. He's called on to deliver two pizzas to an apartment complex that's kind of 'ghetto'. He makes it about halfway down the sidewalk to the apartment he's supposed to deliver to, and 4 guys jump out of the bushes, beat him up, empty his pockets of his money, and proceeded to keep beating on him until he managed to scramble to his feet and run. Just as he got to his feet to run, one guy swiped a knife at him. I lifted my shirt and showed him my Glock pistol strapped to my waiste and told him, "This levels the playing field my friend."

Now, one or more members on this board will refer to me as a typical Texas gun nut. But those pinheads are the ones who will crawl under their bed like a rat when a burglar is in their house, and pray like a right-wing republican to God that the bad guy will just go away. Those people often end up in the obituary as another crime statistic. Whereas, us gun owners will put just deserts on his ass.

LMAO at "the shakiest gun in the west" braggin about his glock...

Or is it Travis Bickle..."you talkin to me, you talkin to me?"

You'd probably shoot your two-inch dick off if you ever had to use it for real!

Another texas chickenhawk, just like shrubya, playin cowboys and indians.

[InHouston]

Now, one or more members on this board will refer to me as a typical Texas gun nut. But those pinheads are the ones who will crawl under their bed like a rat when a burglar is in their house, and pray like a right-wing republican to God that the bad guy will just go away. Those people often end up in the obituary as another crime statistic. Whereas, us gun owners will put just deserts on his ass.



LMAO at "the shakiest gun in the west" braggin about his glock...

Or is it Travis Bickle..."you talkin to me, you talkin to me?"

You'd probably shoot your two-inch dick off if you ever had to use it for real!

Another texas chickenhawk, just like shrubya, playin cowboys and indians.

Case in point. You're as stupid as you are predictable chefmike.

[kennbo]

InHouston cites the scenario of the pizza delivery guy as an example of a good time to have a gun tucked in your waist band. Let us look at that scenario a bit more closely. The guy is delivering pizza, right? I assume he isn't carrying the pies in a backpack, so he must be utilizing his hands. Now 4 guys jump out of the bushes and surprise him. How, pray tell, is he supposed to defend himself with his gun, in his pants with his hands full of pizza and his adrenalin kicking in, as a function of his startle response, a physiological phenomenon which tends to give one the shakes? I put to you, that Inhouston has sentenced that poor pizza guy to a death sentence, instead of an ass kicking, because that scenario would probably end with one of those four guys grabing his gun and shooting his ass. Maybe, with considerable training, the guy might be able to control his startle reflex enough to smoothly draw his weapon, but he looses time fucking with the pizzas and lifting his shirt. Maybe he gets 1 shot off, maybe he hits one attacker, that leaves 3 guys to subdue him and take his weapon and shoot him. Brilliant advice Inhouston, I hope you at least send flowers to the poor s.o.b.'s funeral.

[InHouston]

InHouston cites the scenario of the pizza delivery guy as an example of a good time to have a gun tucked in your waist band. Let us look at that scenario a bit more closely. The guy is delivering pizza, right? I assume he isn't carrying the pies in a backpack, so he must be utilizing his hands. Now 4 guys jump out of the bushes and surprise him. How, pray tell, is he supposed to defend himself with his gun, in his pants with his hands full of pizza and his adrenalin kicking in, as a function of his startle response, a physiological phenomenon which tends to give one the shakes? I put to you, that Inhouston has sentenced that poor pizza guy to a death sentence, instead of an ass kicking, because that scenario would probably end with one of those four guys grabing his gun and shooting his ass. Maybe, with considerable training, the guy might be able to control his startle reflex enough to smoothly draw his weapon, but he looses time fucking with the pizzas and lifting his shirt. Maybe he gets 1 shot off, maybe he hits one attacker, that leaves 3 guys to subdue him and take his weapon and shoot him. Brilliant advice Inhouston, I hope you at least send flowers to the poor s.o.b.'s funeral.

Oh my god!!! What a brilliant analysis you've done here that equates to nothing short of 'chickenshit' on your part. Doesn't matter who these guys are, how many, or that you're just a pizza delivery guy. With a good semi-automatic weapon on your person, they'll stop a bullet like anyone else.

Question: So you get one shot off and the rest of the guys subdue you and take your gun???? Are you serious??? You really think that would happen??????????????? Do you really think that after you shoot just one guy, the other guys are going to have the presence of mind to continue to pursue and subdue someone who's shooting at them? Would you? On the contrary, your shot into the first guy will trigger the, as you would have it, 'physiological phenomenon which tends to give one the shakes', or to put it more precisely FUCKING PANIC on the part of the criminals. Where's your head man? You're really going to yell out to your buddies, "Oh man he's shooting ... get him guys!!!" No fucking way. Every one of them will shreek, "OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FUCK!" and scramble for safety without even thinking about it.

You have the typical liberal 'victim' mentality. You remind me of John Kerry and Bill Clinton. When it comes time to act, you think too much about what could possibly go wrong, and in doing so you become hesitant, indecisive, and won't act at the critical moment, and YOU not me would end up dead for the mere petty cash and pizza on your person. I'll be god damn if I get beat up, robbed and/or killed over that.

You don't stand there and fuck with your pizzas and shake like an old woman when you draw your weapon. With training and practice you:

1] Ensure weapon is loaded and on your person in a manner where it can be drawn.
2] Learn to maintain situational awareness, especially when walking through a suspicious area.
3] When bad guys jump out, you don't fuck with the pizzas, you let them hit the ground.
4] Lift your shirt with the opposite hand you shoot with and draw weapon with your shooting hand.
5] Fire center mass into the upper chest of the nearest assailant. That area of the body contains everything that makes a person 'go'; heart, lungs, major arteries, etc.
6] Follow up with shots center mass into the chest of the 2nd and/or 3rd nearest assailant.
7] By this point, the remaining assailants will be in the middle of an about face to get cover, whereas you graciously fire one to two blunt rounds of trauma center mass into their upper backs.
8] Leave the area and call 911.
9] Inform police you were attacked, and those dead guys are the attackers, and exercise your 5th amendment right and say nothing more.

All in all, the entire ordeal should be over in 2 to 5 seconds, and you go home alive. Those guys go where they would have ended up eventually robbing people like that, so it might as well be you if they target you for a robbery. In doing so, you may end up saving an unarmed person's life one day in the future.

To rebut your ridiculous analysis, here's a hard fact. With four targets behind my back, gun in my front pants and hands behind my back, I've been timed to lift my shirt, draw, turn 180 degrees, and fire 2 rounds center mass into each target in just over 2 seconds flat. You know how I managed to get that fast? Oh just a thing thing called practice and a bit of self-preservation and wanting to live my life on my terms and not on the terms of some maggot criminal who would kill me over petty cash and pizza.

Another case in point and real life scenario. I'm in my car at 1:00 am. Turn down a residential street, and a car load of hispanic gang bangers pull right on my ass and kill their lights. Then they pull up very close on the side of me. This is a typical car jacking or drive by shooting tactic. Now, referring back to 'situational awareness', my gun was out and ready before they even pulled on the side of me, because I scan my rear view mirror alot and saw those bastards kill their lights and get on my tail. By the time they got even with me on the drivers side, they were already looking down the barrel of my Glock with a bright tactical streamlight blinding them. One guy in the back yelled, "Fucking haul ass homes!!". They did just that, and hit the curb about 50 yards ahead of me because they were in such a panic. All in all, not one shot fired, and I was safe and made it home that night.

Hey kennbo, remember the children's book The Little Train that Could? You should read it. There are great lessons in self-reliance and confidence you could learn from that book. I don't know about you, well I do now, but I live a little more realistically than you do.

I know the other pinheads in this forum are going to flame me and insist I'm boasting again. Go to any gun range, and you see perfectly common American citizens practicing all the time.

[The American Nightmare]

7] By this point, the remaining assailants will be in the middle of an about face to get cover, whereas you graciously fire one to two blunt rounds of trauma center mass into their upper backs.

Serious question:

Are you out of your god damn mind?

[InHouston]

7] By this point, the remaining assailants will be in the middle of an about face to get cover, whereas you graciously fire one to two blunt rounds of trauma center mass into their upper backs.

Serious question:

Are you out of your god damn mind?

I think that question would be more appropriately directed at the criminals trying to rob innocent people. Someone tries to rob me and they'll go down in a blaze of hot lead, and I will not lose one wink of sleep over it. What am I supposed to do? Stop them and ask, "Okay wait guys, as long as you don't kill me, I'll give you money." Am I supposed to sit there and hope those fucking worms don't hurt me or kill me? Am I supposed to take such a risk and while they're beating and stomping on my head, I just revel in the hope that maybe they'll let me live? Are you out of your god damn mind?

Think about it. If such scenarios stir even a sliver of fear in your bones, then its time to get a gun.

[The American Nightmare]

7] By this point, the remaining assailants will be in the middle of an about face to get cover, whereas you graciously fire one to two blunt rounds of trauma center mass into their upper backs.

Serious question:

Are you out of your god damn mind?

I think that question would be more appropriately directed at the criminals trying to rob innocent people. Someone tries to rob me and they'll go down in a blaze of hot lead, and I will not lose one wink of sleep over it. What am I supposed to do? Stop them and ask, "Okay wait guys, as long as you don't kill me, I'll give you money." Am I supposed to sit there and hope those fucking worms don't hurt me or kill me? Am I supposed to take such a risk and while they're beating and stomping on my head, I just revel in the hope that maybe they'll let me live? Are you out of your god damn mind?

Think about it. If such scenarios stir even a sliver of fear in your bones, then its time to get a gun.

You've seriously lost touch with your purpose. People are supposed to carry guns to stay safe. Shooting someone in the back does not accomplish that.

Nobody is arguing that it's ok for someone to rob another, but you think the punishment for it should be death. That's disturbing. In this society, we have courts, not individals, who see to it that justice is served.

Earlier, someone called you a "typical Texan." I thought this was uncalled for. If you don't want people to make these types of insults, I'd reccomend that you stop pretending you live in the wild west.

[InHouston]

You've seriously lost touch with your purpose. People are supposed to carry guns to stay safe. Shooting someone in the back does not accomplish that.

You're not comprehending what I described in the correct context, and are visualizing shooting a helpless and defenseless person in the back. Let's say I manage to stop one, and the other three immediately turn tail and run. Being humane you reason, "Okay they're running that's enough." Now its time to leave the area for a safer place and call the police. You get to your car, and while talking to the 911 operator and departing, suddenly the three you let go jump and yell, "There he is!!", and POW POW POW POW. Now you're dead.

We asked these questions in our concealed handgun class, and the instructor recommended that you STOP any and all assailants so you can depart safely to an area away from where the incident occurred without being pursued. Blunt trauma to the upper body sounds harsh, but here's the reality of what will happen. You defend yourself, and a lawsuit will follow if he's not dead. If he can't sue because he's dead, the family will, and more out of opportunism rather than grief. These lawsuits start at approximately $20,000 just to get the problem to a lawyer, and can result in final judgements of hundreds of thousands of dollars, or millions if you have it. It's better to just STOP them completely.


Nobody is arguing that it's ok for someone to rob another, but you think the punishment for it should be death. That's disturbing. In this society, we have courts, not individals, who see to it that justice is served.

What I described has nothing to do with punishment, and in such a scenario there is no time to even ponder it. What I'm describing is taught in classes every day, in that you stop the aggression completely to preserve life.


Earlier, someone called you a "typical Texan." I thought this was uncalled for. If you don't want people to make these types of insults, I'd reccomend that you stop pretending you live in the wild west.

Don't be absurd. Just last night on the news about 5 miles from my home, 2 guys walked to a conveniance store for beer. They stood on the side of the store, cracked em open, and according to witnesses were just leaning against the wall talking and enjoying the evening. Four guys got out of a car with guns, and approached them and demanded money. The two guys started to run, one was shot dead, and the other victim shot in the leg. And I'm confident that the robbers are in no way experts with firearms and tactical gun combat, and didn't intend to just wound the other guy either.

This isn't the Wild West. There's a lot of evil and crazy people out there in the world.

[Thor57]

This was purely abuse of power. A racist powerplay, nothing else.

[BlackAdder]

We asked these questions in our concealed handgun class, and the instructor recommended that you STOP any and all assailants so you can depart safely to an area away from where the incident occurred without being pursued. Blunt trauma to the upper body sounds harsh, but here's the reality of what will happen. You defend yourself, and a lawsuit will follow if he's not dead. If he can't sue because he's dead, the family will, and more out of opportunism rather than grief. These lawsuits start at approximately $20,000 just to get the problem to a lawyer, and can result in final judgements of hundreds of thousands of dollars, or millions if you have it. It's better to just STOP them completely.




I can tell you guys that this is the same thing they teach here as well in PA. Even as part of Act 227, which allows you to work armed and displaying.

The wrongful death lawsuit is generally much smaller $$$ amounts then if the person lives and sues for a host of other "injuries" both mental and physical....fucked up but your better off shooting them dead then letting them live by wounding them.....If I ever have to pull the trigger at someone AmericanDream, there getting no less then a triple tap.

[The American Nightmare]

You're not comprehending what I described in the correct context...

You're seriously going to shoot someone in the back based on a "What if?" That's bullshit reasoning that can lead you to justify almost anything.

Let's say there's two young guys approaching me on the streeet. I should go ahead and shoot them. After all, what if they were going to pull a knife on me?

There's a commonly-used phrase for this plan of action: Shoot first, and ask questions later.


lawsuit

So now it's an issue of money? You continually show that you have no regard for human life whatsoever.



Nobody is arguing that it's ok for someone to rob another, but you think the punishment for it should be death. That's disturbing. In this society, we have courts, not individals, who see to it that justice is served.

What I described has nothing to do with punishment...

Yes it does. Earlier you stated:

Someone tries to rob me and they'll go down in a blaze of hot lead

If that's not punishment, what is it? Shits and giggles?


you stop the aggression completely to preserve life.

I agree. However, shooting someone who is running from you is not stopping any threat.

[InHouston]

We asked these questions in our concealed handgun class, and the instructor recommended that you STOP any and all assailants so you can depart safely to an area away from where the incident occurred without being pursued. Blunt trauma to the upper body sounds harsh, but here's the reality of what will happen. You defend yourself, and a lawsuit will follow if he's not dead. If he can't sue because he's dead, the family will, and more out of opportunism rather than grief. These lawsuits start at approximately $20,000 just to get the problem to a lawyer, and can result in final judgements of hundreds of thousands of dollars, or millions if you have it. It's better to just STOP them completely.




I can tell you guys that this is the same thing they teach here as well in PA. Even as part of Act 227, which allows you to work armed and displaying.

The wrongful death lawsuit is generally much smaller $$$ amounts then if the person lives and sues for a host of other "injuries" both mental and physical....fucked up but your better off shooting them dead then letting them live by wounding them.....If I ever have to pull the trigger at someone AmericanDream, there getting no less then a triple tap.

:claps Thank you BlackAdder!

[InHouston]

You're seriously going to shoot someone in the back based on a "What if?"
If it possibly means, "What if the two I let go try to get me around the corner", then you bet.



Let's say there's two young guys approaching me on the streeet. I should go ahead and shoot them. After all, what if they were going to pull a knife on me?
A knife is a fatal weapon too. In that scenario, you've only been approached and are waiting to see what weapon they pull, and you hope its only a knife. If you're being approached and the situation seems suspicious, better draw your weapon first, and if they still pull a knife, that means they're either crazy, or they believe you don't have the courage to shoot them. If they don't back off, at that point you better start shooting, unless your fond of cold steel in your chest.


There's a commonly-used phrase for this plan of action: Shoot first, and ask questions later.
In situations involving self defense, that is best. If you're in fear of your life or safety, and fear is a very real emotion, you better heed it and act.


lawsuit


So now it's an issue of money?
One guy I know was jumped in a parking lot for his wallet. Unknown to the criminal, my friend is an accomplished boxer, and broke his jaw in 3 places. Now my friend has been having to pay him over $800 a month for the last 10 years in restitution, because the guy sued him, and my friend couldn't afford a good lawyer.


You continually show that you have no regard for human life whatsoever.
Your're being absurd again. I'm just as compassionate as the next law-abiding citizen. I am a mortal being, but and when it comes down to my life or his, I'll be damned if I end up cold and 6 feet under.


Earlier you stated:
Someone tries to rob me and they'll go down in a blaze of hot lead. If that's not punishment, what is it? Shits and giggles?
No. It is self defense and nothing more. What they're doing to you is going to end up being shits and giggles when they laugh about how they jacked you and busted a cap in your ass.


I agree. However, shooting someone who is running from you is not stopping any threat.
You have this vision in your head of a guy running and him being inhumanely gun downed from behind. He is immediately turning to run from the bullets that you've fired at his buddies. What are you going to do? Stop shooting, and then let him turn around and start shooting at you. When four guys jump you for your pizza delivery money, do you really know if they don't have guns or not on them? If you stop shooting, what then? Can he now turn and shoot you with the gun you didn't know he had on him? Look at Tookie Williams. That maggot robbed four people for around $170, and shot them execution style in the back. He even laughed to one of his friends about the funny noises the guy made as he was dying. Then the shithead sits up in death row publishing children's books in the hopes of getting clemency in the future to save his own neck. All the way up to his last moment in the death chamber, and all the years that bastard sat on death row, he never once admitted guilt, or made any public statement towards the victims or their families that he was sorry for what he had done.

Here's another real life scenario that happened to me before I started carrying a weapon. And I'm not beating my chest or bragging, because this really happened. A guy in downtown was making his way through our stopped cars at an intersection kicking cars, spitting on them, and daring people to even look at him wrong. He then got in front of my truck, I nodded my head to gesture that he better back off. He was scaring me, and when I get scared, I'm ready to defend myself. Then he started walking to my driver's side door, and that was enough for me. As I got out, he reach behind his back. I rushed him, picked him up, slammed him real hard, and smashed my elbow into his face 3 times to incapacitate him, and then I jumped in my truck and left. Again, leave the scene and get to a safe place. I called 911 on my cell phone, and met the police just outside of downtown. After questioning me, and one citizen who's car was kicked by that guy who came to my defense, the cops soon found out he was wanted for armed robbery, and had a revolver on him. What was I supposed to do? Sit there in my truck as he approached me, and hope we could have a civil discussion about his behavior?

Look what happened during the LA riots when that truck driver was just trying to pass through the area. You saw the video where he was brutally beaten and then a big rock was smashed in his head. Now look at that situation. The attackers had no weapons on them at all, and look what they did to him. Had he had a good semi-auto weapon with plenty of ammo in his truck, he could have easily shot his way out of that situation.

Also during the riot, there was a jewelry store owned by asians, and a hoard of people in the streets trying to get to it. Every one of the store employees had weapons and were firing them at the crowd when they got too close. None of them were hurt, and none of their expensive jewlery was stolen.

Think about it.

[The American Nightmare]

Here's another real life scenario that happened to me...
You mean to tell me that you walked out of that situation just fine and you didn't have to kill any one? What a novel concept. If only someone had mentioned this sooner.

You've been acting like shooting someone in the back is the only way to stay safe. This is not the case, and in most states, shooting someone when the threat is over is illegal, and for good reason. Thousands of other people protect themselves without shooting a fleeing criminal. How do you explain this?

By the way, how much money are you paying that guy you beat up? The lawsuit must have been bad seeing as he didn't die.

[InHouston]

Here's another real life scenario that happened to me...
You mean to tell me that you walked out of that situation just fine and you didn't have to kill any one? What a novel concept. If only someone had mentioned this sooner.

You've been acting like shooting someone in the back is the only way to stay safe. This is not the case, and in most states, shooting someone when the threat is over is illegal, and for good reason. Thousands of other people protect themselves without shooting a fleeing criminal. How do you explain this?

By the way, how much money are you paying that guy you beat up? The lawsuit must have been bad seeing as he didn't die.

First, not everyone has a 3rd degree blue belt in Gracie Ju Jitsu like I do, and is a second line of defense for me should I not have a weapon. I wouldn't recommend that just anyone confront an armed criminal hand to hand. Second, the guy was wanted anyway by the police and probably brisked away to jail. I didn't want to know and didn't ask. After some discussion of what happened, the officer said he would consider it a case of mutual combat and let me go considering I aided them in catching a wanted felon.

You're just gonna continue to refute everything I say anyway, so I'm done with this thread.

[The American Nightmare]

[words]
My point is that you handled the situation without shooting somone in the back, and without killing anyone. It throws your previous statements, regarding the necessity of killing someone, into question.


You're just gonna continue to refute everything I say anyway, so I'm done with this thread.
That's generally how an argument works.

Bye.

[BlackAdder]

I think that just shows that he preempted the situation...If the situation had called for lethal force, such as you just watched the guy hit the car ahead of you with a baseball bat and then proceed to your car.....

Pray tell what would you do then A.N.?

[The American Nightmare]

If the situation had called for lethal force, such as you just watched the guy hit the car ahead of you with a baseball bat and then proceed to your car.....
I'm not sure I understand you. If somebody is hitting cars with a bat, that requires lethal force?