Do Jews Talk About The Holocaust Too Much?

[Dino Velvet]

I'm not a Holocaust denier or anything like that. I realize it happened and it was evil. But, do you think the Holocaust is brought up too often?

[flabbybody]

It's beyond comprehension that Holocaust denial has actually gained traction in the last 2 decades. sorta like the lunatics who believe that 9/11 was some vast US government planned conspiracy.
Ironic that it was Hitler himself who said the bigger the lie the more believable.
anyway, I voted YES. but don't blame the Jews for bringing up the subject

[onmyknees]

I don't think they do Dino. Not at all. And even if that was the case....would it make it wrong ? When you think it's only one generation removed, one could argue it's not discussed enough !

[Dino Velvet]

anyway, I voted YES. but don't blame the Jews for bringing up the subject

I don't resent old Jews with tattoos that went through it talking about it. They've earned the right to talk at any time. But, if you're 22 years old and lived a good life, a little moderation might serve your purpose better. Too much of it seems like manipulation though guilt or sympathy.

[Dino Velvet]

I don't think they do Dino. Not at all. And even if that was the case....would it make it wrong ? When you think it's only one generation removed, one could argue it's not discussed enough !

Wouldn't make it wrong but the message gets watered down and less effective if it's spoken ad nauseam all day long.

[onmyknees]

Wouldn't make it wrong but the message gets watered down and less effective if it's spoken ad nauseam all day long.

ok....using that as a benchmark.....couldn't the same be said about slavery ?

[Faldur]

Fill the new Texas stadium with people, (80,000). Gas everyone of them, and then dispose of them. Do this 75 times over a 2 1/2 year period. The way I see it, there are 6 million voices missing from the conversation, they have a right to talk as much as they would like.

[Teydyn]

Was it horrible? Yes, more then that.

But its over 2 Generations ago...

[Prospero]

The trouble is it isn't over. Anti-semitism is still horribly alive and well. You can, for instance, buy vicious anti Jewish books all over the Middle East(not anti israeli - which is different and complex) - books like Henry Ford's diatribe against the Jews and like the Protocols of the elders of zion which are accepted as 'fact" by many many otherwise intelligent people.

"Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana.

[hippifried]

Too much of it seems like manipulation though guilt or sympathy.

Yeah, I can see how that perception could become prevalent over time. There's been a lot of atrocities throughout history. The Trail of Tears, Armenian Death March, & Rwandan fiasco come to mind as well as the Nazi Holocaust. All of those were an end result of collective fear & denigration of people for who they are instead of what they do.

[onmyknees]

[QUOTE=Prospero;896017]The trouble is it isn't over. Anti-semitism is still horribly alive and well. You can, for instance, buy vicious anti Jewish books all over the Middle East(not anti israeli - which is different and complex) - books like Henry Ford's diatribe against the Jews and like the Protocols of the elders of zion which are accepted as 'fact" by many many otherwise intelligent people.

Well said....

[Prospero]

Thanks onmyknees who has elsewhere labelled me as "another Rhodes scholar"

[rocklob]

The suggestion that if one has achieved a good life one should abstain from mentioning that half your grandparents' generation was wiped off the face of the earth is what I find disgusting.
I have many friends who can go back to Europe or South America and see relatives or visit the homes their families emigrated from. Mine, in southern Poland, have simply disappeared. Not even public registries exist. This gives me, I believe, the right to mention the Holocaust. Just as other groups victimized by planned genocides should never ley anyone forget.
Darfur, Rwanda, Bosnia. All of these things show us we must be ever vigilant about genocide.
This in NO WAY excuses Israeli behaviour toward Palestinians, btw.

[broncofan]

Yeah, I can see how that perception could become prevalent over time. There's been a lot of atrocities throughout history. The Trail of Tears, Armenian Death March, & Rwandan fiasco come to mind as well as the Nazi Holocaust. All of those were an end result of collective fear & denigration of people for who they are instead of what they do.
You can see how that perception could be prevalent because you think that when Jewish people mention the Holocaust they are implicitly denying other atrocities. I actually think that your view as well as the view that motivated this thread are borne of anti-semitism. We are the only ethnic group that gets accused of genocide denial for wanting to memorialize our dead.

And I think that when someone threatens members of your family or adorns your home with swastikas you have a right to make the connection. So to hell with you and the prick who started this thread. I generally don't post here but the ignorance is enough to make me want to say something.

[broncofan]

The messages inherent in this thread are that anti-semitism is not such a big issue, that when a Jewish person mentions the Holocaust in any context it is exploitative, and that when two generations pass so too does the right to discuss an atrocity. Strange then that this did not prevent Hippifriedbrain from bringing up atrocities pre-dating the Holocaust as a tool of dilution (rather than to seriously discuss them).

These are just excuses. The original poster wants to make clear that he doesn't deny the atrocity but thinks that only Jews who survived concentration camps should be protected by its lesson. Those Jews who are somewhat younger and don't like being called "kike" or other names are only using the Holocaust as a guilt trip. Hey OP, can I make any connection between nazi ideology and those in high school who said sieg heil to me while making a heil hitler gesture or is that too tenuous a connection?

[broncofan]

The suggestion that if one has achieved a good life one should abstain from mentioning that half your grandparents' generation was wiped off the face of the earth is what I find disgusting.
.
I'm not sure he's saying that. He's saying if you were in Auschwitz or born in Auschwitz, then you can discuss the Holocaust. If you were in Buchenwald, then you should do so but in a humble and not overbearing sort of way. If you were in Dachau; really you want to discuss the Holocaust given all of the other atrocities that have taken place before or since and the fact that you actually survived it. It couldn't have been that bad if you survived; plus two generations have passed.

I'm sure the seven people voting yes must really be upset since I've said Holocaust four or five times, mentioned three concentration camps (plus Sobibor, Treblinka, and Belzec), and said the word "kike" but only to highlight its antisemitic use and not to actually call a Jew that.

[hippifried]

You can see how that perception could be prevalent because you think that when Jewish people mention the Holocaust they are implicitly denying other atrocities. I actually think that your view as well as the view that motivated this thread are borne of anti-semitism. We are the only ethnic group that gets accused of genocide denial for wanting to memorialize our dead.

And I think that when someone threatens members of your family or adorns your home with swastikas you have a right to make the connection. So to hell with you and the prick who started this thread. I generally don't post here but the ignorance is enough to make me want to say something.
You're looking at this all wrong. I can't speak for anybody else, but I have no skin in this game at all. It's just a historical thing to me. What I resent is this lame idea that I (or anybody else for that matter) would forget if not constantly reminded. And the reminders usually come from somebody else who wasn't there either. I don't need it all up in my face. It's not a discussion anymore. It's just trite & tedious. I hear this shit & just want go in the other direction. It's become an imposition, & it's rude. I'm not anti-semitic. I don't care about Judaism at all. I don't care if you're a Jew. I don't care if you're not a Jew. My disinterest in all things Jewish knows no bounds. Same goes for every other ethnic group on this planet.

I said this at the end of the other post that you quoted, but apparently you missed it. Sooo... One more time: The problem here is that people keep getting judged by who they are instead of what they do. Deal with that problem, & almost every other social problem falls by the wayside.

[Prospero]

I disagree with you 100 per cent Dino. it is crucial that the Holocaust is discussed and taught in schools and that it is discussed. There are still survivors alive today. It was probably the most monstrous crime against humanity one can conceive and we should ALL be reminded about it. It was a modern and seemingly hugely civilised nation buying into a philosophy which translated a people into something to be got rid off. It was the industrialisation of mass murder.It must never be permitted to happen again. Anywhere. To any people.

This crime against the jews was part of a deeper and still ongoing anti-semitism which is utterly despicable.

[broncofan]

Hippifried,

What I have a problem with is not your disinterest in all things Jewish. That pleases me much actually as you are a pitifully ignorant human being and I'm glad you take no active interest in things Jewish.. It's your assumptions that are not borne out by reality which I have a problem with. You say you resent that it's all up in your face. That it is tedious and lame. That you hear it and want to go in another direction. By it I assume you mean the Holocaust?

But if you look at this thread and the other ones started here you will see that it was not Jews thrusting the subject in your face. This thread is about Jews bringing up the Holocaust too much. It is not itself started by a Jew to thrust it in your ignorant face. Another thread on this forum is about the historical veracity of the Holocaust (ie. whether it happened). I assure you that was also not brought up by a Jew. So while you accuse the Jews of much, your starting assumptions have nothing to do with reality and everything to do with your bigotry.

You feel the need to say you don't want to hear it anymore but it is being brought up here not in the spirit of rememberance but in the spirit of trivializing it and accusing Jewish people of speaking about it too much. On this subject you do care. You don't mind if it is thrust in your face when it comes time to say it shouldn't be spoken about. And in that same thread you have the nerve to say that discussing the Holocaust is rude? I'm sorry, but I lost many family members in the Holocaust and if you're offended by the subject too bad. I will not avoid the subject of the Holocaust (something that deeply affected my family) simply because it makes you, an anti-semite, uncomfortable.

If you want evidence of your anti-semitism look at your post. You impute onto Jewish people some pretty strange motives. "I resent the assumption that if it's not brought up people will forget it." Whose assumption is that, Mr. Goebbels, and who here brought up the subject?

[broncofan]

I disagree with you 100 per cent Dino. it is crucial that the Holocaust is discussed and taught in schools and that it is discussed. There are still survivors alive today. It was probably the most monstrous crime against humanity one can conceive and we should ALL be reminded about it. It was a modern and seemingly hugely civilised nation buying into a philosophy which translated a people into something to be got rid off. It was the industrialisation of mass murder.It must never be permitted to happen again. Anywhere. To any people.

This crime against the jews was part of a deeper and still ongoing anti-semitism which is utterly despicable.
Thank you for your post. In an age where people in polite company know to speak about atrocities with the utmost sensitivity, I find it bizarre that someone like Hippifried who claims to be a universalist can say that he's offended by mention of the Holocaust and thinks it's an imposition to hear about. I am a thinking human being and while I am not blind to the limits of viewing things from one's own perspective, I have a great deal of difficulty seeing how anyone could view such a sentiment as anything but bigotry. It is rotten to its core and does not come without believing very sinister and hateful things about a people.

[Yvonne183]

Good for you Bronco, good post.

But one thing, ya gotta understand this is a forum made up of mostly idiots. Posts of compassion are quite rare.

I wrote a post about my heritage Cajuns being kicked out of Canada and quite a few died along the way or were made slaves but I was met with something less of a compassion, something quite less.

That's the way the forum goes,, it's a shit hole.

I voted no.

[Marty Mcfly]

Yes..its over and done with it...There was 1 Nazi to every 1000 Jews and they allowed this to Happen to themselves anyway..Whats done is done..end it!

[broncofan]

Yes..its over and done with it...There was 1 Nazi to every 1000 Jews and they allowed this to Happen to themselves anyway..Whats done is done..end it!
Holy crap. Who'd have thought Michael J Fox is an anti-semite. Just when I was starting to feel compassion for the man.

Hey Marty Mcfly, whoever you actually are. I hope that when someone in your family dies or is brutally killed someone is there to remind you of your comments. Perhaps a dumbshit like Hippifriedacidtrip

[jimbo1974]

The history of the Jewish State is one of Persecution.

If some fucker wiped out 6 million of your predecessors in one hit, im sure you'd be a tad sensitive to it, and talk about it a bit.

[Quiet Reflections]

I hear a lot of jews talk about it but mostly in response to things other people say and do. Im sure it happens but I myself have never heard a Jewish person bring it up in conversation.

[robertlouis]

Yes..its over and done with it...There was 1 Nazi to every 1000 Jews and they allowed this to Happen to themselves anyway..Whats done is done..end it!

If that's meant to be ironic, it's in poor taste. If you're serious, then shame on you. I have many Jewish friends here in the UK, and two, three generations on, the scars still run deep. As for the magnificent survivors, now in their 80s and 90s, they serve as an example to posterity in so many ways.

It isn't just the camps that do it. If you go to towns in Poland or elsewhere in what we used to call central Europe, there will almost always be the physical remnant of the old Jewish quarter and a palpable absence of the vibrant community that used to be there.

You may be physically distanced from the locations of the horrors in America, but the emotional connection is universal, and, I hope, eternal.

[hippifried]

Okay asshole: "Pitifully ignorant" about what? What do you think you know about me? From your bullsdhit, I figure you don't know much, but that wasn't the question.

Go ahead & sling the "anti-semitic" accusation around all you like. It's so overused that it really has no meaning anymore. In here, all it means is that I don't agree with you. Same thing's happening with all the Holocaust talk, & 9-11 too. You're handing the "denier" morons legitimacy because so many others are just tired of hearing about it & don't care anymore. Overemphasis breeds a perception of irrelevance. Save your whining about "anti-semitism" for the klan/nazis who are preaching real hatred, & the idiots who buy it.

As for "rememberance": I only remember what I've read. It's a historical event. I can empaathize with those who went through it, including the Roma who were also targeted but never get mentioned. I have no empathy for you though, nor any ethno-religious group, or anybody based on who they are rather than what they do. I don't get emotional over things that don't directly involve me. Like I said, I have no skin in this game. It all happened before my birth (& I have great grandchildren by the way). By sheer numbers, Jews stilol hold the genocide record. In proportion to population, I believe the Tutsis took a bigger hit per capita in the Rwandan genocide. That was less than 20 years ago. "Let's remember so this will never happen again." Well it happened again. Where's the hue & cry? It hasn't been forgotten. Most people just don't have skin in the game. All this shit's fucked up. It's the same cause every time. People are being judged by who they are instead of what they do. I don't care who you are. But what you're doing is trying to brand me with some bogus label of "anti-semitism" because I don't agree with you. How are you not part of the problem?

[Prospero]

Hippiefried. I don't think the argument that it happened before you were born really plays. Hiroshima and Nagasaki also happened before we were born - but the world has, ever since, worked to try and prevent a recurrence because of the awful result not to control these awesome weapons would have.
Yes the Rwandan genocide happened as did the muderous regime of the khmer Rouge in Cambodia and the massacre of Muslims at Srebrenica, the ars in the Cogo in which millions have died and more..... but this does not still disarm the argument that we need to be attentive to the Holocaust as a symbol of the very example to date of genocide. This came from the heart of a nation that was thought be among the most civilised and cultured in Europe - the people have gave us Bach and Schubert, Goethe and Schiller, Kant and Hegel It was the industrial scale of this attempt to eradicate a whole people from history that singles this out. it was Hitler's avowed aim to destroy the jewish people in their entirety. He wanted eventually to open a museum to the extinct Jewish 'species." The Holocaust is a still potent symbol of the very worst that humans can do to other humans. Its scale dwarves the other mass killings - though all were deplorable and unforgivable atrocities.

And as i said earlier this old hatred IS still very much alive - across Europe with the resurgance of the extreme right, across the Middle East where Jews generally are scapegoated fover the complexities of the israel problem and let's not forget the official persecution of Jews under the Soviet regime either. Thousands fled to israel and the US to escape that.

It's not called the oldest Hatred for nothing.

Oh and I don't brand you an anti semite at all. Just think on this issue you are mistaken.

[Stavros]

The core question is do Jews talk about the Holocaust too much: but it should be, How is the Holocaust discussed. For European Jews it is not just a history lesson, it is history itself; for other Jews and for the rest of us, it is a chilling lesson in what can happen when 'the best lack all conviction' as a poet said: there were key moments when Hitler could have been derailed by the German justice system, by German politicians, and so on -he was not a German at the time of the failed Munich putsch in 1923, he could have been deported back to Austria and so on, but a biased legal system and a belief among too many that Hitler was crazy and would not achieve anything led to a relaxation of the law when it should have been ruthless: but anti-semitism would not have died out then, and continues to exist now, even though the whole pseudo-science of Race was discredited through the actions of the Third Reich.

A major benefit, through the tireless work of Raphael Lemkin, to create an international crime called Genocide has been a benefit for humanity, but a political curse for governments, legitimate or otherwise, who have attempted to wipe out whole groups of people for whatever reason and yes, retrospectively, it has been applied, for example, to the Armenians. Nuremburg was a military tribunal, not a criminal court, ironically, Guantanamo today is also a military tribunal, but discredited before it began. Charles Taylor, Slobodan Milosovic, Ratko Mladic and Karadzic have faced or are facing justice of a kind.

The fundamental problem is the HOW: the way in which the Holocaust has been manipulated as a political issue by those Israelis -for example- who revive memories of the Third Reich as part of the language of contemporary conflict in the Middle East. It is not that simple, at the time of the Holocaust the reactions of Jews in Palestine was mixed, some were concerned, others were indifferent, some outraged that the Jews themselves seemed to be so passive -hence the almost romantic drama of the Warsaw Ghetto. The complications of the reality of what happened to the Jews, the Homosexuals, the Gypsies, the mentally and physically disabled, even the Communists, cannot be neatly packaged under one label, or indeed appropriated by one state as if it 'belonged' to them.

It is the political manipulation that appals me; I would rather the work that has been done on the politics, economics, social-psychological aspects of the holocaust be done in schools, universities and in the media, than shunted into a political graveyard for the benefit of hysterical extremists in Israel and its uncritical supporters in other countries-it is more important than they are, and we still have lessons to learn from it.

[broncofan]

Hippifried,
I know what I've read. Of course being called anti-semitic doesn't mean much to you as you have probably been called it before and don't care much. I gave specific reasons why I think you're an anti-semite and I think they're well supported by what you've written.

When I say you're anti-semitic it is because you accuse Jewish people of denying other atrocities simply because they wish to mourn their dead. You say that it's rude of people to mention the Holocaust when those who you say this to have actually lost family members in the Holocaust. We have every right to bring it up in the appropriate context and your comment that we shove it in your face completely belies the history of the posts here.

I see that you're an older man. Actually twice my age. It's a shame that in sixty years of living you've learned nothing about human beings and are only capable of repeating mantras such as "I judge people by what they do rather than who they are". Well that's all well and great except when you're discussing an atrocity where people were murdered for who they are, the knowledge retained by their family members that an entire generation was wiped out is very sobering. I don't want your empathy but I will not tolerate the wanton disrespect you've shown me and others similarly positioned.

You also do not need to name every atrocity you can think of to impress me as I am well aware of them and am interested in them not for their use as a political weapon but because I actually do have empathy for the descendants of those who lost family members.

On the one hand, perhaps I should hesitate before calling you anti-semitic because I know reflexively you are going to say that it dilutes "real anti-semitism". The problem here is that you are starting with the assumption that you couldn't possibly be a bigot. You should really reconsider. You say you're being candid, well so am I. I've met plenty of neo-nazis as I used to have to tutor them in math. Just because you want people to believe that you're an open-minded guy who is being persecuted for his refusal to kowtow to those selfish Jews who are trying to steal away all of the world's sympathy by focusing on the Holocaust doesn't mean you're different from those I tutored; only older.

[Marty Mcfly]

Holy crap. Who'd have thought Michael J Fox is an anti-semite. Just when I was starting to feel compassion for the man.

Hey Marty Mcfly, whoever you actually are. I hope that when someone in your family dies or is brutally killed someone is there to remind you of your comments. Perhaps a dumbshit like Hippifriedacidtrip

That was not anti-semite at all..it is a pure Fact...Why did the Jewish people allow such a thing to happen?shame on them for being damn cowards.

[broncofan]

And I realize that some people seeing me call (not brand) Hippifried an anti-semite are going to be turned off and think that it's not nice. Let me just say that I am not saying it because I think it will have a certain effect or because I think it will be hurtful. I really am saying it because it's what I believe. That's one of the reasons I took the time and tried to explain why in my last post.

[broncofan]

That was not anti-semite at all..it is a pure Fact...Why did the Jewish people allow such a thing to happen?shame on them for being damn cowards.
No offense but this fails to even offend. I realize that the odds in this life have not been stacked in your favor.

[Prospero]

No offense but this fails to even offend. I realize that the odds in this life have not been stacked in your favor.

Totally agree with you Bronco.

[InHouston]

Of course they don't talk about it too much. Did you see what happened during the Holocaust? Gays and transgendered people would have been in line too for the ovens and gas chambers.

[Stavros]

You can see how that perception could be prevalent because you think that when Jewish people mention the Holocaust they are implicitly denying other atrocities. I actually think that your view as well as the view that motivated this thread are borne of anti-semitism. We are the only ethnic group that gets accused of genocide denial for wanting to memorialize our dead.

And I think that when someone threatens members of your family or adorns your home with swastikas you have a right to make the connection. So to hell with you and the prick who started this thread. I generally don't post here but the ignorance is enough to make me want to say something.

I know Hippifried can defend himself, but to me his post said that he knows fully what happened during the Third Reich, and why, and what its consequences have been -he doesn't need a constant feed to be reminded of something so momentous so what is your problem? He hasn't said he loathes or detests Jews because they are Jews. Turkey has denied there was a genocide of Armenians in the 20th century and the US government agrees, does that mean the US govt past and present hate Armenians and are 'holocaust deniers' given that the Armenian genocide is also on view at Yad Vashem as part of the more general issue of Genocide? If someone is indifferent to the slaughter of the Tutsi in Rwanda is it because they hate black people? If your position is assumed, then anyone who does not wring their hands and constantly memorialise genocide is liable to be called a 'denier' -most of us who contribute to Politics and Religion know enough about history without singling out the US in Vietnam or Cambodia, or Attila the Hun.

Try the book Atrocitology for a global checklist of genocides and massacres...

Atrocitology: Humanity's 100 Deadliest Achievements: Amazon.co.uk: Matthew White: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51OPVw5%2Bd%2BL.@@AMEPARAM@@51OPVw5%2Bd%2BL (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Atrocitology-Humanitys-100-Deadliest-Achievements/dp/0857861220/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336588562&sr=8-1)

[broncofan]

I know Hippifried can defend himself, but to me his post said that he knows fully what happened during the Third Reich, and why, and what its consequences have been -he doesn't need a constant feed to be reminded of something so momentous so what is your problem? He hasn't said he loathes or detests Jews because they are Jews. Turkey has denied there was a genocide of Armenians in the 20th century and the US government agrees, does that mean the US govt past and present hate Armenians and are 'holocaust deniers' given that the Armenian genocide is also on view at Yad Vashem as part of the more general issue of Genocide? If someone is indifferent to the slaughter of the Tutsi in Rwanda is it because they hate black people? If your position is assumed, then anyone who does not wring their hands and constantly memorialise genocide is liable to be called a 'denier' -most of us who contribute to Politics and Religion know enough about history without singling out the US in Vietnam or Cambodia, or Attila the Hun.

Try the book Atrocitology for a global checklist of genocides and massacres...

Atrocitology: Humanity's 100 Deadliest Achievements: Amazon.co.uk: Matthew White: Books (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Atrocitology-Humanitys-100-Deadliest-Achievements/dp/0857861220/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336588562&sr=8-1)
I don't know why you're referring me to a list of atrocities. Not only do I not deny these atrocities but I have never said they deserve to be rated in any sort of order or that they take a backseat to the Holocaust. The reason I say that I think his post is anti-semitic is because he is attributing to me beliefs I don't hold and haven't expressed. I have not constantly reminded him of the Holocaust nor has anyone else on this forum. I also don't see how Holocaust education is reminding people as though they will forget. Such a belief charges everybody with the same knowledge as Hippifried, regardless of their exposure to such history lessons. This would be the equivalent of me interrupting a lecture given to a hundred people in order to say that I already knew one of the points that the lecturer made. Any education program is going to necessarily be tailored to those who know the least.

Your analogy to other atrocities in my opinion doesn't create any sort of meaningful parallel to what he has said. If someone was presented with a descendant of someone, perhaps an Armenian, whose family members were wiped out during the Armenian Genocide and insisted despite the fact that this person did not bring the atrocity up, that any such discussion was rude, an imposition, and that they don't need to be reminded every two seconds of it, I would assume that they have animosity towards Armenians. I would defend the Armenian and not the person asserting their right to kick dirt in the person's face. I don't believe that people should be treated in such a manner and yes I do believe that a failure to show an appropriate amount of tact is evidence of hatred.

You obviously do believe he needs your defense or you wouldn't offer it. Nothing he has said has been misinterpreted. You say that he hasn't said that he detests Jews because they are Jews, but the last anti-semite who did say that was Adolf Hitler. Even today you would not hear an anti-semitic person say that they detest Jews because they're Jews but rather that they detest Jews because they possess a set of particular traits; in fact many of these traits are alluded to in the strawmen arguments of Hippifried where he talks about numerous issues that haven't been raised as though he's conducting an argument against the World Jewish Congress and not a Jewish individual.

So what is my problem? I don't like anti-semitism and if somebody shows me a type of disregard that is not warranted for a human being I assume it's intended to be personal. And just to show an example of a strawman argument of yours, you ask "anyone who doesn't wring their hands ....should be called a denier?" I would say that his posts, referring to Jews as whining, being rude for mentioning the Holocaust, and imposing on him by mere mention of the subject are a far cry from failing to wring his hands. Please have some respect for honest discourse.

[broncofan]

I know Hippifried can defend himself, but to me his post said that he knows fully what happened during the Third Reich, and why, and what its consequences have been -he doesn't need a constant feed to be reminded of something so momentous so what is your problem? He hasn't said he loathes or detests Jews because they are Jews. Turkey has denied there was a genocide of Armenians in the 20th century and the US government agrees, does that mean the US govt past and present hate Armenians and are 'holocaust deniers' given that the Armenian genocide is also on view at Yad Vashem as part of the more general issue of Genocide? If someone is indifferent to the slaughter of the Tutsi in Rwanda is it because they hate black people? If your position is assumed, then anyone who does not wring their hands and constantly memorialise genocide is liable to be called a 'denier' -most of us who contribute to Politics and Religion know enough about history without singling out the US in Vietnam or Cambodia, or Attila the Hun.

Try the book Atrocitology for a global checklist of genocides and massacres...

Atrocitology: Humanity's 100 Deadliest Achievements: Amazon.co.uk: Matthew White: Books (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Atrocitology-Humanitys-100-Deadliest-Achievements/dp/0857861220/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336588562&sr=8-1)
I just saw the part of my original post that you bolded. I think you failed to understand my argument. I was not saying that he was a Holocaust denier but rather that his view seems to be that any attempt to memorialize victims of the Holocaust implicitly places it on a pedestal and denies other atrocities. The same argument I believe is being attached to Holocaust education. That if the subject is considered one of importance, then the message must be that only atrocities where Jewish individuals are the victims are important.

In fact, I would say that by referring me to this book, you seem to have the same belief. I think that's exceedingly mendacious. You seem to be saying to me; your people are not the only ones who have been murdered. Can you wait for me to say as much before offering the rebuttal?

[robertlouis]

That was not anti-semite at all..it is a pure Fact...Why did the Jewish people allow such a thing to happen?shame on them for being damn cowards.

You really know fuck all about history, don't you? Cowards? *smh*

[robertlouis]

Of course they don't talk about it too much. Did you see what happened during the Holocaust? Gays and transgendered people would have been in line too for the ovens and gas chambers.

Not "would have been" - they were. Thousands of homosexuals were murdered in the camps. The Jews had to wear a yellow star of David. Gays had to wear a pink triangle - it's one of the origins of pink as the symbol of gay defiance. And the Nazis systematically murdered thousands of Romanies too, as well as people they considered to be mentally subnormal.

When your aim is to create a so-called master race you don't want anything less than par messing up the gene pool. Yes, there have been other massacres and genocidal campaigns throughout history, but it's the mundane, clerically efficient administrative apparatus they created to achieve industrialised mass disposal of human beings in their millions that sets the Nazi crimes apart. What they did wasn't emotional or barbaric, by their standards, they were simply carrying out government policy.

In Hannah Arendt's endlessly evocative phrase when she saw the pathetic uber-clerk Eichmann in the dock in Israel, his face showed "the banality of evil".

[hippifried]

The core question is do Jews talk about the Holocaust too much: but it should be, How is the Holocaust discussed.
To the core question: My opinion is yes.

To your Question: There's no discussion at all. You're told what to think & say. If you deviate, or question any aspect for any reason, you're anti-semitic. End of discussion. What? Is there more to it? Wouldn't know it by the update on this thread since yesterday.

How long have you & I been bantering back & forth? You know my position on bigotry. You should also know by now that I'm not one for toeing somebody else's line. Like I said: No skin in the game. I'm not Jewish or European, & I don't understand why anyone would think that I should have some special emotional connection to this particular event. I really have no connection at all, emotional of otherwise. There's lots & lots of events. If I got emotional about them all, my head would explode. I can't & won't give deferential treatment to one group over another based on number totals. I'm not sympathetic to someone who's only harm is emotional empathy for somebody else. I refuse to feel guilt for something I wasn't involved in. If that's anti-semitic, then so be it. It'd just reinforce my contention that the term has no meaning anymore.

[luvshemales]

Why does OP constantly post Jewish related topics on this forum. I give you that he is one of the biggest ANTI SEMITES on here. This is not the appropriate forum for this discussion.

[broncofan]

Hippifried,
I did think you were anti-semitic but now I'm not so sure you're not just a little bit dumb. Not only do you fail to address any of the substantive points I make about your posts, but your sentences are trainwrecks and you seem unable to write more than two sentences without a cliche. For instance, you say that being called an anti-semite doesn't mean anything. Yet, it was enough for you to use profanity and to continue to post here. I think you're an anti-semitic cliche machine.

You said earlier that you think the Holocaust shouldn't be discussed because afterall you are a great grandfather and even you weren't alive during the Holocaust. Wouldn't you know that the event had a date that doesn't depend on the incredibly short generational times of your family. I'll have you know that if you're complaining, there are actually condom vending machines in most public restrooms these days. Next thing you're going to tell me that a family in Alabama has had eight generations of family members in the last seventy years.

I shouldn't have called you an anti-semite without first considering the other possibilities. For instance, I read something about antisocial personality disorder and it said that many of these individuals can skin kittens alive with the impassivity of someone cutting a steak. That might be the ticket. There's also the possibility that you don't read your posts after you've written them and aren't aware of some of the gibberish you write. Anyhow, I can't think of a possible defense of you that doesn't involve a deeper-seated problem than anti-semitism.

But I'll keep looking. Be sure to check in with us when you become a great great great grandfather.

[broncofan]

[QUOTE=hippifried;1137595] You know my position on bigotry. QUOTE]
Let me guess, you're against it.:D Just like when Stavros said you haven't said you dislike Jews because they're Jews. Until you say it, you couldn't possibly be a racist, eh?

[broncofan]

Oh and I'll let you have the last word Hippifried. I've said my piece.

[hippifried]

[QUOTE=hippifried;1137595] You know my position on bigotry. QUOTE]
Let me guess, you're against it.:D Just like when Stavros said you haven't said you dislike Jews because they're Jews. Until you say it, you couldn't possibly be a racist, eh?
Hey shithead. The hatred I see being spewed in here is coming from you. You've done nothing but lie in this thread. I don't know why & don't care. You aren't important enough for me to care why you do what you do. Dishonesty to justify hatred pretty much defines an asshole. As far as I'm concerned, I just see you as another whiney punk who's willing to lie about empathy for somebody else's misfortune in order to justify being an asshole. Is that accurate? Who cares? It's my opinion of you, & since I don't respect you at all, it's not likely to change. You've shown me nothing.

[flabbybody]

Why does OP constantly post Jewish related topics on this forum. I give you that he is one of the biggest ANTI SEMITES on here. This is not the appropriate forum for this discussion.
this is politics and religion which is basically a wildcard for whatever's on your mind. Something you'd be reluctant to post on your fb or twitter page but here we're all retarded so no need to be shy. And I think the op was actually a very intriguing question, being that I'm from a Jewish background who has heard about the holocaust since I was little.