The problem with the trans community

[BellaBellucci]

... is not independent thinkers. It's those who can't think for themselves at all. They rely upon a kind of 'sisterhood' for their co-dependent validation, and any girl who offends the sanctity of that is to be mercilessly (salvagely?) beaten, usually verbally, sometimes physically for their supposed insolence. And Gods help them if they fight back.

But I have a news flash for the lock-steppers: you have no clout anymore. The sisterhood has failed. Do you know why? Because it's too repressive. Daring to be upset with one causes an attack by the whole and frankly, most girls have too much to worry about on their own to get into a war with every person who offends anyone within the group. Unless of course, you work for Grooby, but that's a whole other story.

The fact that we all wear womens' clothes doesn't make any of us a woman any more than a penis makes any of us a man. Just because some girls face discrimination (usually not because they're 'clocky,' but because they don't pass at all), that doesn't mean that they can walk around with thin skin and a victimization complex. They've made their decision and frankly nobody owes them protection, validation, or even conversation.

This is in no way a slam to those who are proud to be who they are, but it's usually the loudest, most obnoxious, most provocative 'girls' that are psychologically and emotionally the weakest and yet feel the most entitlement, even though they have nothing to offer the supposed sisterhood themselves. Everyone in this community seems to have their hand out, and it's pathetic. Some of us have never asked for a thing and have even made offerings to the community but receive nothing but hate in return when we exercise our independence. That's so wrong on so many levels and extraordinarily counter-productive.

What we need is more critical thought in this community. I may have transsexuality in common with a girl, but that doesn't mean we have anything else in common. It doesn't require me to always take her side of things. It doesn't require me to protect her. It certainly doesn't require to me to be like her. I am myself, for better or worse, and I'll deal with the hate that's flung my way for my assertive (and unlike so many girls, stable) identity. I for one protect whomever I deem worthy and nobody that I don't and certainly not every person who claims they're 'just like me.' They're not. They have merely one thing in common with me and I don't own them a Gods damn thing. They seriously need to seek therapy if they feel otherwise.

And I find it interesting how often people who sanctimoniously follow the herd will ostracize anyone with a shred of independence, but then expect them to use that independence to bolster the strength of the group. It sort of defeats the purpose of objectivity, doesn't it? There's a lot of hypocrisy and there are countless double-standards in this community, and I'm here to say once and for all that you can call me whatever you like, but I'm going to point it out every time I see it.

I've been accused of 'dividing' the community on many occasions, usually by the parties who up until recently, as a group (surprise, surprise!), had the most influence on the message boards, but the truth is, I've never expected anyone to agree with me, let alone everyone, as they do. I don't brow beat people with my opinions unless they do the same first (I'm looking at you Seanchai and Felicia). I've always just encouraged independent thought and self-worth. If that 'divides the community,' then so be it if that's what it's going to take to strengthen the individuals among us and inevitably make us all look better for it as a group. It's time to trim the fat and strengthen our weakest links.

We shouldn't have to walk in lock step. We're not Nazi's. Or Republicans. Or Groobies for that matter. Sure, we should all try to help each other out when we can, but never under duress. We do all have a struggle in common, but that doesn't mean we should never question anything that's done, especially by those who exploit us the most and/or their allies. And we should each always, always strive to be better as people, not as transgendered people, so when girls see 'transgender' as anything but one aspect of their personality, they seriously need to rethink their identity and self-worth.

Nobody needs to do it for me. They need to do it for themselves and the community for which they think they're doing good, and see that the truth is that followers are merely pawns who get sold out all the time but never seem to see it coming for some reason.

I for one will not be a pawn. And neither should anyone else here. OUR little clique here on HA should be about leading by example, not demanding submission.

~BB~

PS: If you think this post is about you, it probably is. :geek:

[wendell]

In any group that faces social discrimination and/or oppression there is an understandable and completely acceptable gravitation towards groups which tend to coalesce around certain ideas and personalities. There's no poblem with that per se but you're right that it can lead to close mindedness and an unwillingness to tolerate people who upset what is considered acceptable behaviour.

On the flip side of that Bella it is possible for people just to not like each other and disagree without it being part of a collective effort or groupthink, even when it is a large group of people that take exception to an individual. Some people have personalities that just rub lots of people the wrong way. That's not what i'm saying your problem is Bella only that i'd be careful of identifying a conspiracy out of individual problems. Though of course the former is just a possible as the latter.

[lisaparadise]

... is not independent thinkers. It's those who can't think for themselves at all. They rely upon a kind of 'sisterhood' for their co-dependent validation, and any girl who offends the sanctity of that is to be mercilessly (salvagely?) beaten, usually verbally, sometimes physically for their supposed insolence. And Gods help them if they fight back.

But I have a news flash for the lock-steppers: you have no clout anymore. The sisterhood has failed. Do you know why? Because it's too repressive. Daring to be upset with one causes an attack by the whole and frankly, most girls have too much to worry about on their own to get into a war with every person who offends anyone within the group. Unless of course, you work for Grooby, but that's a whole other story.

The fact that we all wear womens' clothes doesn't make any of us a woman any more than a penis makes any of us a man. Just because some girls face discrimination (usually not because they're 'clocky,' but because they don't pass at all), that doesn't mean that they can walk around with thin skin and a victimization complex. They've made their decision and frankly nobody owes them protection, validation, or even conversation.

This is in no way a slam to those who are proud to be who they are, but it's usually the loudest, most obnoxious, most provocative 'girls' that are psychologically and emotionally the weakest and yet feel the most entitlement, even though they have nothing to offer the supposed sisterhood themselves. Everyone in this community seems to have their hand out, and it's pathetic. Some of us have never asked for a thing and have even made offerings to the community but receive nothing but hate in return when we exercise our independence. That's so wrong on so many levels and extraordinarily counter-productive.

What we need is more critical thought in this community. I may have transsexuality in common with a girl, but that doesn't mean we have anything else in common. It doesn't require me to always take her side of things. It doesn't require me to protect her. It certainly doesn't require to me to be like her. I am myself, for better or worse, and I'll deal with the hate that's flung my way for my assertive (and unlike so many girls, stable) identity. I for one protect whomever I deem worthy and nobody that I don't and certainly not every person who claims they're 'just like me.' They're not. They have merely one thing in common with me and I don't own them a Gods damn thing. They seriously need to seek therapy if they feel otherwise.

And I find it interesting how often people who sanctimoniously follow the herd will ostracize anyone with a shred of independence, but then expect them to use that independence to bolster the strength of the group. It sort of defeats the purpose of objectivity, doesn't it? There's a lot of hypocrisy and there are countless double-standards in this community, and I'm here to say once and for all that you can call me whatever you like, but I'm going to point it out every time I see it.

I've been accused of 'dividing' the community on many occasions, usually by the parties who up until recently, as a group (surprise, surprise!), had the most influence on the message boards, but the truth is, I've never expected anyone to agree with me, let alone everyone as they do. I don't brow beat people with my opinions unless they do the same first (I'm looking at you Seanchai and Felicia). I've always just encouraged independent thought and self-worth. If that 'divides the community,' then so be it if that's what it's going to take to strengthen the individuals among us and inevitably make us all look better for it as a group. It's time to trim the fat and strengthen our weakest links.

We shouldn't have to walk in lock step. We're not Nazi's. Or Republicans. Or Groobies for that matter. Sure, we should all try to help each other out when we can, but never under duress. We do all have a struggle in common, but that doesn't mean we should never question anything that's done, especially by those who exploit us the most and/or their allies. And we should each always, always strive to be better as people, not as transgendered people, so when girls see 'transgender' as anything but one aspect of their personality, they seriously need to rethink their identity and self-worth.

Nobody needs to do it for me. They need to do it for themselves and the community for which they think they're doing good, and see that the truth is that followers are merely pawns who get sold out all the time but never seem to see it coming for some reason.

I for one will not be a pawn. And neither should anyone else here. OUR little clique here on HA should be about leading by example, not demanding submission.

~BB~

PS: If you think this post is about you, it probably is. :geek:time to switch to decalf little woman lol.seriously a sisterhood as i see it is were all trans and thats about all most of us have in comman right?im not a card carrying member although i give alot of advise to those who ask and that is my responsability period.i may not use spell check but im pretty sure my point gets across crystal clear.i am a lone wolfe when it comes to dealing with my sisters i just honestly got burnt out trying to mediate a bunch of spoilled hookers who couldnt hold a real job if there life depended on it.i admire your tanacity and your strong will and that im sure we have in comman but i cant help but think your upset about amys alliance with steven and if thats the case then you need to free yourself of the anger will only give you an ulcer kiddo and if im wrong about whats troubling you then im just gonna blame it on my many years of blonde hair-dye seaping into my brain but whatever reason you posted this thread i will always love an admire you for who you are and what you stand for.

[BellaBellucci]

In any group that faces social discrimination and/or oppression there is an understandable and completely acceptable gravitation towards groups which tend to coalesce around certain ideas and personalities. There's no poblem with that per se but you're right that it can lead to close mindedness and an unwillingness to tolerate people who upset what is considered acceptable behaviour.

On the flip side of that Bella it is possible for people just to not like each other and disagree without it being part of a collective effort or groupthink, even when it is a large group of people that take exception to an individual. Some people have personalities that just rub lots of people the wrong way. That's not what i'm saying your problem is Bella only that i'd be careful of identifying a conspiracy out of individual problems. Though of course the former is just a possible as the latter.

I never said a word about a conspiracy. That's Seanchai's word. I'm referring to the 'completely acceptable gravitation towards groups.' My point is that some of us don't find it to be all that acceptable, and still more of us even find it entirely counterproductive.

~BB~

[LibertyHarkness]

the only person that concerns me is myself ...i am not part of some TS womans movement etc ....
i have no care, desire nor interest for anything like that ...people just need to get on with their lives and take control of their own actions/fates ..

There is no clique on this site its merely just a porn/escort board ...faceless conversations etc are ultimately all meaningless its just poltie banter ..this board has girls come and go just like it has guys come and go. myself i see this place as a marketing tool and a means to interact with fans/people in a non serious manner.

[dderek123]

F'in great OP. Well done Bella. I'm totally oblivious to the drama that you speak of but the issues you have brought up I have noticed for a long time. It's not only the TS community it happens in most discussion groups. Be yourself Bella, pursue your happiness and people will appreciate your for it.

[BellaBellucci]

i cant help but think your upset about amys alliance with steven

It's an example but it's not the only one by a longshot! :lol:

Besides, group think lends validity to stereotyping. 'All trannies' this; 'all trannies' that. It comes to a point where speaking in generalizations is not only acceptable, but accurate. You didn't see MLK or Malcom X telling Blacks to be carbon copies of each other, did you? Or Gloria Steinem with women? Or Harvey Milk with gays?

~BB~

[wendell]

I don't think it's wrong to form groups Bella as long as those groups don't lose sight of the issues of toelrance that made then neccesary or perhaps desirable in the first place. There are vocal parts of the trans community that I agree are completely counterproductive and seem to have formed groups soley to victimise other people as a means to deal with their own issues but I don't think group making is inherentley likely to lead to that and has it's uses.

[BellaBellucci]

I don't think it's wrong to form groups Bella as long as those groups don't lose sight of the issues of toelrance that made then neccesary or perhaps desirable in the first place. There are vocal parts of the trans community that I agree are completely counterproductive and seem to have formed groups soley to victimise other people as a means to deal with their own issues but I don't think group making is inherentley likely to lead to that and has it's uses.

First of all, groups of transwomen can be the most intolerant, racist, sexist, homophobic bullies who care about nothing more than protecting only themselves even as they sell out their 'sisters,' and far too many are. Example: girls who let Maury make a mockery of transwomen for a few hundred dollars.

Secondly, are you a Republican?

~BB~

[wendell]

I'm English Bella so our political parties and what they stand for are quite different to America. I've vote Conservative in the two elections since I got the vote. Why do you ask?

[BellaBellucci]

I'm English Bella so our political parties and what they stand for are quite different to America. I've vote Conservative in the two elections since I got the vote. Why do you ask?

Because in this country we have a problem with group think that extends far beyond marginalized groups to the groups that do the marginalizing, like conservative Republicans.

~BB~

[wendell]

Sorry I missed the first part of your post. I don't disagree at all which is why I said as long as they don't lose sight of the issues of tolerance that make such groups desirable, and that there are plenty of memebers of the trans community that are woefully counterproductive.

[LibertyHarkness]

thats their choice bella if they wish to be on a Telly show like that, that is upto them not some great cause .

[wendell]

Absolutely there are huge groups that are appaling in their lack of critical thinking but we were talking here about groups in the transgendered community. I'm not quite sure what you're getting at Bella.

[BellaBellucci]

Absolutely there are huge groups that are appaling in their lack of critical thinking but we were talking here about groups in the transgendered community. I'm not quite sure what you're getting at Bella.

I'm just trying to put your original defense of herd mentality in context is all.


thats their choice bella if they wish to be on a Telly show like that, that is upto them not some great cause .

Excuse me, but it causes more harm to the community than it provides advantage to the sell-out. I mean if girls want to sell us out, they should get at least more than a few hundred dollars and 15 seconds of infamy. Honestly, if they were getting thousands, I'd probably have a different opinion.

~BB~

[LibertyHarkness]

yes but thats exactly it, your opionon not theirs ... if a person is happy to go on a show like that for whatever reason, not always money ...that is there choice not yours, not mine, not some tranny community etc..

if it cause harm it cause harm, it also creates interest .. every action has a reaction be it good or bad, who are you or i or anyone to decide if that person going a show at that moment in time is causing a positive or negative result.

[wendell]

It wasn't a defence of herd mentality Bella, that's something I find nauseating it was an acknowledgement that in an enviroment that is hostile to certain individuals it is only natural that many of those individuals will wish to form groups. Personally I see nothing wrong with that. It is when groupthink replaces disussion that there is a problem. I don't see anything inherently dangerous in forming groups, there is just potential for danger.

[BellaBellucci]

It wasn't a defence of herd mentality Bella, that's something I find nauseating it was an acknowledgement that in an enviroment that is hostile to certain individuals it is only natural that many of those individuals will wish to form groups. Personally I see nothing wrong with that. It is when groupthink replaces disussion that there is a problem. I don't see anything inherently dangerous in forming groups, there is just potential for danger.

That's fair. But I think we also agree that for many groups under the trans umbrella, it's also true that they are their own worst enemies. :geek:


yes but thats exactly it, your opionon not theirs ... if a person is happy to go on a show like that for whatever reason, not always money ...that is there choice not yours, not mine, not some tranny community etc..

I'm just saying I have no unquestionable allegiance to those who sell themselves out at every opportunity and I think others should consider that as well. That's all.


if it cause harm it cause harm, it also creates interest .. every action has a reaction be it good or bad, who are you or i or anyone to decide if that person going a show at that moment in time is causing a positive or negative result.

We're members of said overall community. That's who. We're entitled to our opinions and it's my opinion that not only do girls allow themselves to be exploited, many ask for it and some even beg! It's not a good look and I for one don't like that I'm associated with girls who don it because society lumps us all in together. And they lump us all in together why? Think about it.

~BB~

[wendell]

Absolutely Bella and i'm afriad that often they tend to be the most vocal.

[dogsandcats]

time to switch to decalf little woman lol.seriously a sisterhood as i see it is were all trans and thats about all most of us have in comman right?im not a card carrying member although i give alot of advise to those who ask and that is my responsability period.i may not use spell check but im pretty sure my point gets across crystal clear.i am a lone wolfe when it comes to dealing with my sisters i just honestly got burnt out trying to mediate a bunch of spoilled hookers who couldnt hold a real job if there life depended on it.i admire your tanacity and your strong will and that im sure we have in comman but i cant help but think your upset about amys alliance with steven and if thats the case then you need to free yourself of the anger will only give you an ulcer kiddo and if im wrong about whats troubling you then im just gonna blame it on my many years of blonde hair-dye seaping into my brain but whatever reason you posted this thread i will always love an admire you for who you are and what you stand for.

I don't know anything about the situation (but I'm a random person on the internet so I can say something about it anyway :dancing:), but it sounds like you hit the nail on the head. When I was with my ex for 8 years she slowly drew further back from the other trans girls, because of all the drama, bs, and shady girls. I never really saw a ts "sisterhood" in the years I was around it. Friendships/"alliances" came and went over the years for various reasons. There was no lasting bond because someone happened to be a TS. lol If anything there was a built in tension/competitive/catty nature to the relationships.

When it comes down to it a lot of the girls are melodramatic, especially when they are young. They don't really know themselves either and they have a lot going on with them emotionally trying to figure out who they are. Try not to get sucked into the drama and don't try to "fix" people. People have to change on their own and if they choose to continue to live in a high school-like world then they will...until it burns them.

Again...I have no clue what's going on but I grew up as an adult (from 22 to 30) around all the ts/gay drama and hearing all the stories. I just think you have to take things the way Lisa does and live your own life and try not to let others bring you down.

Just my opinion. :)

[tsdvdman]

Bella I think that if Jerry Springer approached you today to be the (official) ts liaison for them to have trannies on that show you'd do it in a heartbeat. It seems as though you are angry but not at the (perceived) collective oppressive repression, but rather your individual inability to be seen or viewed as someone in the ts community with genuine value and "positive" contribution regarding ts issues. Screaming just doesn't get it nobody is going to hear you!!

[BellaBellucci]

Bella I think that if Jerry Springer approached you today to be the (official) ts liaison for them to have trannies on that show you'd do it in a heartbeat.

Now that is a bold statement!

You crack me up. :lol:

Oh, and for the record, Springer is actually better than Maury in my opinion. His show is openly fake and the TS is not normally the butt of the joke in the bits, particularly not the very passable ones. But still, it would never happen.


It seems as though you are angry but not at the (perceived) collective oppressive repression, but rather your individual inability to be seen or viewed as someone in the ts community with genuine value and "positive" contribution regarding ts issues. Screaming just doesn't get it nobody is going to hear you!!

Excuse me, but if I didn't already feel that most people here viewed my opinion as having integrity and a slightly more weighted value, I wouldn't be so eager to express it. Nobody's screaming and nobody is angry and nobody feels an 'inability' to do anything. This is a strictly academic exercise.

The fact that you aren't arguing the merits, but rather are focusing on me pretty much proves my point about how desperate some people are to maintain the status quo. In this case, they'll use my issues with Grooby in attempts to discredit my argument, but they screwed me over long before I made a peep about them. Talk about blaming the victim! :lol:

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

I just think you have to take things the way Lisa does and live your own life and try not to let others bring you down.

Just my opinion. :)

Sorry I didn't see your post sooner. I agree 100% and I try so hard, but sometimes I do feel compelled to speak up. Very little evolution occurs in this community and I think were it not for a few of us, there would be none. I understand that change doesn't occur overnight, but it also doesn't occur at all if there's no catalyst for it.

Thanks for the post and I'm sorry it didn't work out for you and your girl.

~BB~

[LAtoNY]

Bella,
I didn't have time to read all that stuff. I'm sure it was quite eloquent. Would this be a bad time to ask you to post a photo of your "baloney pony?"

[BellaBellucci]

Bella,
I didn't have time to read all that stuff. I'm sure it was quite eloquent. Would this be a bad time to ask you to post a photo of your "baloney pony?"

If you register for a free account on my website, there are 52 teaser pics available. The Members' Area isn't finished yet, but eventually there will be a fee for access to it, but not other areas of the site, and even then, I'll be adding more free teasers regularly. :)

~BB~

[lisaparadise]

I don't know anything about the situation (but I'm a random person on the internet so I can say something about it anyway :dancing:), but it sounds like you hit the nail on the head. When I was with my ex for 8 years she slowly drew further back from the other trans girls, because of all the drama, bs, and shady girls. I never really saw a ts "sisterhood" in the years I was around it. Friendships/"alliances" came and went over the years for various reasons. There was no lasting bond because someone happened to be a TS. lol If anything there was a built in tension/competitive/catty nature to the relationships.

When it comes down to it a lot of the girls are melodramatic, especially when they are young. They don't really know themselves either and they have a lot going on with them emotionally trying to figure out who they are. Try not to get sucked into the drama and don't try to "fix" people. People have to change on their own and if they choose to continue to live in a high school-like world then they will...until it burns them.

Again...I have no clue what's going on but I grew up as an adult (from 22 to 30) around all the ts/gay drama and hearing all the stories. I just think you have to take things the way Lisa does and live your own life and try not to let others bring you down.

Just my opinion. :)wow 8 years i love you guys that date us tgirls great job babe

[rockabilly]

... begins chanting "Go to Oprah"

lol

[onmyknees]

Because in this country we have a problem with group think that extends far beyond marginalized groups to the groups that do the marginalizing, like conservative Republicans.

~BB~

You're a trip Bella..

Let your comments on the TS community raise or fall on the merits, but leave politics and the Nazi's out of it. You lessen your arguments. This has nothing to do with Republicans or Nazis and everything to do with you. I think that's a fair statement....Mabe stop trying to change the world, and start trying to change yourself? Sometimes people of like mind bind together for a reason. If you plan on changing that, you either have to convince them, or lead by example....not alienate them
Just Sayin'

[BellaBellucci]

You're a trip Bella..

Let your comments on the TS community raise or fall on the merits, but leave politics and the Nazi's out of it. You lessen your arguments. This has nothing to do with Republicans or Nazis and everything to do with you. I think that's a fair statement....Mabe stop trying to change the world, and start trying to change yourself? Sometimes people of like mind bind together for a reason. If you plan on changing that, you either have to convince them, or lead by example....not alienate them
Just Sayin'

So I shouldn't try to motivate transpeople to be independent and strong when I have to watch them rely on everyone else for ideas, styles, and (many times false) validation day in and day out? I don't get involved in that, so don't I already lead by example in that regard? So what do I need to change exactly? Sure, I could lessen my zeal, but why weaken my rhetoric? Sounds like an invitation for the exploitation of perceived vulnerability to me, and vulnerable is that last thing you want to be around here. Peace through strength is my mentality. :geek:

As far as Nazis and Republicans, the comparison was made because they're two groups defined by group think and subsequent manipulation of the masses. I wasn't referring to either group's politics, simply their methods, and since I thought that would be self-evident, I find your comment distracting.

~BB~

[AmyDaly]

I think that you are only experiencing these things because your experience in the "Community" has been with Hookers and Porn.

I have had strong ties to the LA Trans Community outside of the adult industry and I can tell you that its full of young educated people making a difference and trying to make a difference every day.

That said. There are also a lot of people who claim to be community orientated, but really don't do a single beneficial thing for trans people as a whole except make us look crazy.

My advice to you is that if you REALLY want to do something useful or get to know people who are actively engaging in bettering the whole community and not just the club circuit, then you should attend an lgbt club meeting at one of the local colleges. UCLA just started its trans rap group up again Monday or Tuesday nights I believe. I think its still open to people not attending UCLA. Once I xfer to csulb, I will start a trans group up there as well(if they don't have one already).

But until you are actually doing something, you are just all talk and not really any better than the people who you are talking about. There is a whole active community under your nose and you will never see it until you leave the hookers and club girls to fight amongst themselves.


And I'm sorry, but don't use your website as an excuse for trying to say that you are doing anything. All you are doing is giving people who want to stare at TS pictures a space and a means. You aren't making it any worse, but you certainly aren't doing anything good either.

[BellaBellucci]

I think that you are only experiencing these things because your experience in the "Community" has been with Hookers and Porn.

I have had strong ties to the LA Trans Community outside of the adult industry and I can tell you that its full of young educated people making a difference and trying to make a difference every day.

Point taken. I guess I'm only referring to the hooker and porn side of things. I actually do know quite a few people like those you describe. Most of them were on my old Facebook. :whistle: :lol:

But you're right. I should probably try to join some of the political groups. I was involved with one a few months ago, but it had a bunch of problems as do many of the groups. If I found one that was stable and positive, I would join it.


And I'm sorry, but don't use your website as an excuse for trying to say that you are doing anything. All you are doing is giving people who want to stare at TS pictures a space and a means. You aren't making it any worse, but you certainly aren't doing anything good either.

Which website? My personal porn site is a) independent b) inclusive c) free at the moment and d) going to feature a lot more girls in the near future, some of whom will be given their own sites. I can't go into details at the moment, but suffice it to say, my business model cares more about people than profit. I only care about running a mutually beneficial business, not getting rich.

And then there's Total-TG.com, which makes absolutely NO profit. It's a straight gift to the trans community and an attempt to unify those who have independent minds in common goals that stand to benefit from multiple points of view. If you joined, you would immediately notice the lack of known troublemakers there. It's a very positive website and it's just the first of many gifts I intend to bestow upon those who I feel have earned them by being true to themselves.

~BB~

[AmyDaly]

No, the Total-TG Site.

I know its free, but the only community you are giving a gift to is the people who want to look at pics really.

[BellaBellucci]

No, the Total-TG Site.

I know its free, but the only community you are giving a gift to is the people who want to look at pics really.

I can only lead a horse to water. The photos are a lure. Sometimes people bite and sometimes they don't. :wiggle:

I'm just saying I think you'd be hard-pressed to doubt my intentions.

~BB~

[onmyknees]

So I shouldn't try to motivate transpeople to be independent and strong when I have to watch them rely on everyone else for ideas, styles, and (many times false) validation day in and day out? I don't get involved in that, so don't I already lead by example in that regard? So what do I need to change exactly? Sure, I could lessen my zeal, but why weaken my rhetoric? Sounds like an invitation for the exploitation of perceived vulnerability to me, and vulnerable is that last thing you want to be around here. Peace through strength is my mentality. :geek:

As far as Nazis and Republicans, the comparison was made because they're two groups defined by group think and subsequent manipulation of the masses. I wasn't referring to either group's politics, simply their methods, and since I thought that would be self-evident, I find your comment distracting.

~BB~

The irony...LOL. The distraction was created by you. Which doesn't belong and why in a post about "community" issues. Nazi's, Grooby, Republicans ? I rest my case. Anytime you bring Nazi's into any discussion, your point gets diluted. That was my only point, but appearently others have some advice for you as well...so let's see. Sometimes in your case it's not peace through strengh ( a republican idea BTW !! LMAO) but peace at all costs.
Sorry for distracting you....just returning the favor !

[MrsKellyPierce]

Oh...ok

[rockabilly]

Porn pics might not be the best way to educate the masses about tgirls but it's what they do next that matters. :shrug

[MrsKellyPierce]

I don't really hang out in the trans community..my experience comes from online...lmao

That's quite enough for me...

It's like middle school and a beauty pageant where everyone talks shit about the other..

[BellaBellucci]

Anytime you bring Nazi's into any discussion, your point gets diluted.

Only by people who can't decipher between methods and politics. I stand by my analogy.


Porn pics might not be the best way to educate the masses about tgirls but it's what they do next that matters. :shrug

Precisely. :geek:

~BB~

[onmyknees]

"Only by people who can't decipher between methods and politics. I stand by my analogy."

:screwy Of course you do, I wouldn't expect anything less..but that doesn't make it relevent or accurate or germane.

[nonnonnon]

Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Mike_Godwin_at_Wikimedia_2010.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8d/Mike_Godwin_at_Wikimedia_2010.jpg/220px-Mike_Godwin_at_Wikimedia_2010.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/8/8d/Mike_Godwin_at_Wikimedia_2010.jpg/220px-Mike_Godwin_at_Wikimedia_2010.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law)

[BellaBellucci]

"Only by people who can't decipher between methods and politics. I stand by my analogy."

:screwy Of course you do, I wouldn't expect anything less..but that doesn't make it relevent or accurate or germane.

Really? It doesn't? Did you know that the Germans learned how to utilize propaganda and mass media manipulation from the U.S. Government? An excellent example within the trans community would be Seanchai's attempts to buy all of the message boards so that he can control the flow of information.

You can disagree with my use of the analogy all you like, but you haven't proven that it's wrong.

You know. Just sayin'. :lol:

Nazi propaganda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Flag_of_Nazi_Germany_(1933-1945).svg" class="image" title="Flag of Nazi Germany"><img alt="Flag of Nazi Germany" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/Flag_of_Nazi_Germany_%281933-1945%29.svg/150px-Flag_of_Nazi_Germany_%281933-1945%29.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/a/a2/Flag_of_Nazi_Germany_%281933-1945%29.svg/150px-Flag_of_Nazi_Germany_%281933-1945%29.svg.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_propaganda)

~BB~

[dogsandcats]

wow 8 years i love you guys that date us tgirls great job babe

Yup...it certainly was never boring :lol:

I hope she does great in life, but to make a very long story very short we grew apart. C'est la vie. I made sure to set her up good so she wouldn't have any trouble getting on her feet since she was just basically a housewife the past few years.

Who knows what I am looking for now, but I've learned what to avoid. That's why I made the comment about trying not to "fix" or change people. That shit doesn't work :tongue:.


Anyhow....back to the drama!

[Jackal]

Groupthink and the herd mentality is a flaw across humanity, I do not see how the transgender community is special in this regard, although I am not transgender myself, just know it from politics, gfs and friends.

[dderek123]

Groupthink and the herd mentality is a flaw across humanity, I do not see how the transgender community is special in this regard, although I am not transgender myself, just know it from politics, gfs and friends.
This

[rufusmaxwell]

Sometimes it takes people braking away from a group to be able to define themselves to be able to find there way. You need to have a collective group though in some ways because 1 voice cannot be heard the same as multiple voices speaking the same ideas and trying to forward the same thoughts. I get the herd mentality and the belittling of people which is not good at all and does not in way further any one person or for that matter any groups cause/causes. Within a group it is much easier to throw around ideas, and much easier to further a cause. Maybe what's needed is more civility which I think is needed, but also what's needed is for strong voices within the group to step forward and advance not only yourself but the group as a whole. None of the examples that you used Bella, MLK and Malcolm X for example where able to create change in a day and Malcolm X eventually changed his approach from a militant and aggressive style to that of a more passive yet much more powerful style at the end of his life! So maybe stepping back from the group not necessarily out of the group for a while would be helpful.

[onmyknees]

Really? It doesn't? Did you know that the Germans learned how to utilize propaganda and mass media manipulation from the U.S. Government? An excellent example within the trans community would be Seanchai's attempts to buy all of the message boards so that he can control the flow of information.

You can disagree with my use of the analogy all you like, but you haven't proven that it's wrong.

You know. Just sayin'. :lol:

Nazi propaganda - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_propaganda)

~BB~


I'm certainly not gunshy from engaging anyone on any subject at any time but I dunno Bella, it seems counterproductive to engage anyone who's beginning to sound more like Beck than Bella. The analogy of anything to any facet of the Third Reich seems to do nothing but distract and enflame, and make one seem detached , but you're certainly free to post all the swastikas you like Bella . I'd rather watch Hogans Hero's reruns !!!!! LMAO

[BellaBellucci]

So maybe stepping back from the group not necessarily out of the group for a while would be helpful.

Perhaps. I think it really depends on the immediate situation. Mine are long term goals. Sometimes I attack, sometimes I defend, and I really try to never retreat, but I have no allusions of overnight change. I have however, seen some positive change since I arrived here and started doing my thing. Can I take credit for that? Maybe in part, but who cares? I'm just glad it's happening, albeit very slowly.


I'm certainly not gunshy from engaging anyone on any subject at any time but I dunno Bella, it seems counterproductive to engage anyone who's beginning to sound more like Beck than Bella. The analogy of anything to any facet of the Third Reich seems to do nothing but distract and enflame, and make one seem detached , but you're certainly free to post all the swastikas you like Bella . I'd rather watch Hogans Hero's reruns !!!!! LMAO

I can see that. Or maybe I can't? :lol:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/01/10/04_schultz.jpg

... and I didn't post a swastika. It just came with the wiki link.

~BB~

[LittleGuy]

Were ts and proud

Say it loud

[DL_NL]

There are some valid and intelligent points in your post Bella, but I find myself skipping over some of them because your obsession with Grooby gets into all your arguments, whether it belongs there or not- FWIW. It's time to accept that voicing that opinion over and over gets you nowhere but more people start to avoid reading your posts.

[BellaBellucci]

There are some valid and intelligent points in your post Bella, but I find myself skipping over some of them because your obsession with Grooby gets into all your arguments, whether it belongs there or not- FWIW. It's time to accept that voicing that opinion over and over gets you nowhere but more people start to avoid reading your posts.

I forgot about this thread already, so sorry for the delayed response.

I agree with you, but I can't help it if Grooby provides such terrific examples of a lot of what's wrong with the TS community and, more specifically, the TS porn niche. We're all here to better our economic situations as best we can and we could all do without the petty personal politics, broken promises, high school cliquishness, manipulation, and general obstructionism embodied by the clique that thinks it's cool now, but will soon find out what life is really about when they're too old and used up to fuck for a living. And what they seem to ignore is the fact that when that happens, guys like Steven and Buddy will still be around to exploit the next wave of 'plastics.' It sucks that so many of the girls in this business are so short sighted, but that doesn't give anybody else the right to exploit that vulnerability. :geek:

YouTube - Romy and Michele's High School Reunion Part 9 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLX5dwy8Leo)

It's for this very reason that so many people either interject or exaggerate the relevance of my fued with them into other arguments I make in attempts to discredit them. That said, most times when people think I'm talking specifically about or just because of Grooby, I'm really not.

Put simply, my 'obsession' is overblown and largely a product of necessity. Maybe you missed the constant barrage of attacks by newbies and sock-puppets that I endured earlier today? It's not the first time they've tried it. This will only end when both sides want it to and since they have a gang versus what is essentially just me, I can't let my guard down. I'm sorry, but they've forced me to become really dug in at this point, and moreover, believe you me, I'm still only just talking truth here anyway.

~BB~

[Boardwalkempire]

Isnt that what porn is? Exploitation?

[BellaBellucci]

Isnt that what porn is? Exploitation?

Well, no. I for one find shooting porn liberating. The exploitation has really always been on the business side of things, not the production side IMHO, and it's bad enough when it's done to born women, but it's worse when it's done to us because we're much more vulnerable. Politically and economically, we're where gays and women were 30 years ago and I feel like there are some people in this industry that get off on twisting that knife, especially if it makes us all bleed more profit for them.

Producers continue to complain about lost profits due to the weak economy and all of the so-called 'piracy' (Grooby for instance recently went as far as suing individual torrent users even as similar lawsuits are being dismissed on their faces and it's sites that resell the content that are the real culprits), but it's always the models who suffer with lower pay and fewer production services (many don't even provide hair or makeup, so we all have to be stylists as well as models and actresses), and the big fish at the top never seem to sacrifice at all and I'm sorry, but Steven Gallon of Grooby has gained more under these circumstances than really anybody else.

~BB~

[Boardwalkempire]

Well, no. I for one find shooting porn liberating. The exploitation has really always been on the business side of things, not the production side IMHO, and it's bad enough when it's done to born women, but it's worse when it's done to us because we're much more vulnerable. Politically, we're where gays and women were 30 years ago and I feel like there are some people in this industry that get off on twisting that knife, especially if it makes us all bleed more profit for them.

Producers continue to complain about lost profits due to the weak economy and all of the so-called 'piracy' (Grooby for instance recently went as far as suing individual torrent users even as similar lawsuits are being dismissed on their faces and it's sites that resell the content that are the real culprits), but it's always the models who suffer with lower pay and fewer production services (many don't even provide hair or makeup, so we all have to be stylists as well as models and actresses), and the big fish at the top never seem to sacrifice at all.

~BB~


That makes a lot of sense. But you could say that about every industry in America. Is all about the good ol dollar. Capitalism at its best/worst. I dont know much about porn besides that im addicted to to watching it lol. I dont know how much you guys get paid or how often you work...but i can see how a model in porn would feel exploited.

What do you mean by torrent users???

[BellaBellucci]

That makes a lot of sense. But you could say that about every industry in America. Is all about the good ol dollar. Capitalism at its best/worst. I dont know much about porn besides that im addicted to to watching it lol. I dont know how much you guys get paid or how often you work...but i can see how a model in porn would feel exploited.

What do you mean by torrent users???

Yes, that's capitalism, but then in mainstream industries there are unions and laws to protect individual workers. We've got squat.

And by torrent users, I mean casual illegal downloaders/file sharers, as opposed to actual pirates who steal for resale profit and should be strung upside down by their toe nails.

~BB~

[bte]

Yes, that's capitalism, but then in mainstream industries there are unions and laws to protect individual workers. We've got squat.

~BB~

Why don't transgender performers organize an union or something like that?

[Boardwalkempire]

Yes, that's capitalism, but then in mainstream industries there are unions and laws to protect individual workers. We've got squat.

And by torrent users, I mean casual illegal downloaders/file sharers, as opposed to actual pirates who steal for resale profit and should be strung upside down by their toe nails.

~BB~



You guys should have a SAG Union instead of Screen Actors Guild, you could start shemale actors guild..for the ts porn models.

So are you saying all of us that go online and watch porn on tubes and post pictures on this website could possibly be sued?

[bte]

So are you saying all of us that go online and watch porn on tubes and post pictures on this website could possibly be sued?

Its impossible to sue everyone who watch porn on tubes or post pictures.

[BellaBellucci]

You guys should have a SAG Union instead of Screen Actors Guild, you could start shemale actors guild..for the ts porn models.

So are you saying all of us that go online and watch porn on tubes and post pictures on this website could possibly be sued?

Yes. And potentially yes. Like bte said, it's impossible to get everyone, so instead they try to make an example out of everyone they do catch.

~BB~

[Boardwalkempire]

Its impossible to sue everyone who watch porn on tubes or post pictures.



I hope so.


By the way change your pic of Rasputin, its kinda creepy

[Boardwalkempire]

Yes. And potentially yes.

~BB~


Seems like they would have no case.

1. How would they track all of us.
2. This website says post pics
3. No body is making a profit

If anything this site would get sued not any of its users

[BellaBellucci]

Why don't transgender performers organize an union or something like that?

I'm personally working on something like that for transwomen, but I think eventually porn performers of all types should have a union to represent them. Why discriminate by gender?

~BB~

[bte]

Seems like they would have no case.

1. How would they track all of us.
2. This website says post pics
3. No body is making a profit

If anything this site would get sued not any of its users

Plus it never works out. The music industry tried to get users to not download music, didn't work. The movie industry tried to get users to not download movies, didn't work. The porn industry is trying it now, and it won't work.

If porn companies really want to go after illegal use of porn then they should tackle sites like Rapidshare and etc. Those sites have porn content uploaded by users and its whole movies and not just scenes.

[bte]

I'm personally working on something like that for transwomen, but I think eventually porn performers of all types should have a union to represent them. Why discriminate by gender?

~BB~

Well yeah I meant that, but wouldn't it be kind of pointless. Porn companies can always find new talent ya know. There would always be someone who is willing to do that kind of stuff. Not saying its a bad idea for a union for porn stars, but would it be very effective. You would need big names to join the union.

[Boardwalkempire]

Plus it never works out. The music industry tried to get users to not download music, didn't work. The movie industry tried to get users to not download movies, didn't work. The porn industry is trying it now, and it won't work.

If porn companies really want to go after illegal use of porn then they should tackle sites like Rapidshare and etc. Those sites have porn content uploaded by users and its whole movies and not just scenes.



And everybody knows the government treats the porn industry like a red headed step child, they wont win a thing when if they tried to sue a guy who goes on line just to bust a nut every once a while

[BellaBellucci]

Seems like they would have no case.

1. How would they track all of us.
2. This website says post pics
3. No body is making a profit

If anything this site would get sued not any of its users

Actually this site is an affiliate. It essentially gets paid to post pics and vids for promotional purposes, and most studios allow a certain amount of content to be circulated by users for the same reason.

~BB~

[Boardwalkempire]

Well yeah I meant that, but wouldn't it be kind of pointless. Porn companies can always find new talent ya know. There would always be someone who is willing to do that kind of stuff. Not saying its a bad idea for a union for porn stars, but would it be very effective. You would need big names to join the union.



Good point.

[bte]

And everybody knows the government treats the porn industry like a red headed step child, they wont win a thing when if they tried to sue a guy who goes on line just to bust a nut every once a while

Plus suing some poor Joe is not going to solve anything. Yeah it might get mentioned on Fox News for about 3 minutes then nothing gets resolved. The next day so other guy is going to download the complete movie of Transsexual Babysitters 13 or whatever number it is. If you want to combat illegal porn then you gotta go after the sites that host the content. I am not talking about ashemaletube or anything like that but sites like Rapidshare or DepositFiles or some shit like that.

[BellaBellucci]

Well yeah I meant that, but wouldn't it be kind of pointless. Porn companies can always find new talent ya know. There would always be someone who is willing to do that kind of stuff. Not saying its a bad idea for a union for porn stars, but would it be very effective. You would need big names to join the union.

Ironically, the girls who underbid the rest of us are like the anti-sisterhood, which of course is equally as bad as the sisterhood, a bunch of cut-throat bitches with desperation to spare and an 'every woman for herself' attitude. In my OP, I advocate personal responsibility, not warlike competitiveness.

All I can say to that is that you get what you pay for, and if the top porn stars are making less, than everyone else on the bell curve will too. Yes it would take a lot of work to form a kind of union, but in the end it would either pressure studios to better compensate their stars or watch them go independent.

~BB~

[bte]

All I can say to that is that you get what you pay for, but if the top porn stars are making less, than everyone else on the bell curve will too. Yes it would take a lot of work, but in the end it will either pressure studios to better compensate their stars or watch them go independent.

~BB~

Is there a porn studio or company strictly ran by transsexuals? Or is it a male dominated industry in terms of owning studios and whatnot.

[GroobySteven]

Is there a porn studio or company strictly ran by transsexuals? Or is it a male dominated industry in terms of owning studios and whatnot.


SMC is operated by a female.
Joanna Jet runs her own production company.
Wendy Williams runs her own production company (affiliated with SMC).

However, most TS companies are male owned.

[bte]

SMC is operated by a female.
Joanna Jet runs her own production company.
Wendy Williams runs her own production company (affiliated with SMC).

However, most TS companies are male owned.

I forgot about Joanna Jet and Wendy Williams. I didn't know SMC was operated by a female.

[Boardwalkempire]

Looks like your only option is starting a production company..or else your gonna get pimped like the rest of the world..

Athletes, musicians etc..

[BellaBellucci]

SMC is operated by a female.
Joanna Jet runs her own production company.
Wendy Williams runs her own production company (affiliated with SMC).

However, most TS companies are male owned.

And more importantly, the largest are male owned.

~BB~

[GroobySteven]

Seems like they would have no case.

1. How would they track all of us.
2. This website says post pics
3. No body is making a profit

If anything this site would get sued not any of its users

I don't want to get into the old chestnut of rights/wrongs of downloading but just some facts.

1. How would they track all of us? Companies don't, they request the names and addresses of people from ISP's of IP addresses known to have downloaded a specific file. They then send out notifications to those individuals that they will be sued.

2. This website says post pics. I'm sure in their Terms and Conditions there is a disclaimer about posting only pics that you have copyright to. I'm fairly confident that this site has had legal action taken against it before (or the threat of it). Producers allow a fair amount of content to be shown (for Grooby it's no more than 3 pics from any 1 set) in fan based forums like this.

3. Nobody is making any profit. Actually as Bella stated, Hungangels is an affiliate and it is a profitable enterprise but it's irrelevant. Theft of copyright is not dependent on making a profit or not.

We along with a lot of other TS producers have been taking legal action against pirates on a number of levels for many years. More recently because of media coverage on lawyers going after bittorrent users, it's had more exposure but we have been successful in this for the last 6 months and hopefully recouping some costs from losses due to it being shown and desseminated. Because of the current DMCA laws, it's impossible for us to go after tube sites or the like as an individual company (we can't afford to) but we're working with many mainstream companies to look at ways to close these people down.
If you are downloading illegal content, there is a possibility, no matter how slim, that you could be sued.

[GroobySteven]

And more importantly, the largest are male owned.

~BB~

I think SMC is the largest in most aspects, Bella.

[GroobySteven]

I forgot about Joanna Jet and Wendy Williams. I didn't know SMC was operated by a female.

You also have of course people like Mandy Mitchell, TaraTS, DeliaTS, Lovely Luxury, Katie Ayanami, etc. running their own sites even though they may be affiliated with other companies.

The girls who have solo sites under our company, retain the ownership of the sites, content, etc. so effectively are hiring us as management.

[BellaBellucci]

for Grooby it's no more than 3 pics from any 1 set in fan based forums like this.

So I have a question now: what happens if someone starts a thread for a particular set and each user only posts 3 photos to it? :geek:

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

You also have of course people like Mandy Mitchell, TaraTS, DeliaTS, Lovely Luxury, Katie Ayanami, etc. running their own sites even though they may be affiliated with other companies.

The girls who have solo sites under our company, retain the ownership of the sites, content, etc. so effectively are hiring us as management.

Mandy's on SMC now, remember? And wait, so you still get 50% affiliate revenue? The only thing that does for the model is allow her to assume more of the control which is to say more of the critical risk, but not more of the profit.


I think SMC is the largest in most aspects, Bella.

That may be so, but they're only one company. There's still you, Bob, Joey Silvera, Sammy Mancini, and whomever else I'm leaving out. Collectively, the men still wield more influence than the women within the niche.

Not to mention that men also make up nearly 100% of the photogs, promoters, and web designers. I know you have some graphic artists and post-producers that are women, so that's a step in the right direction, but most of the people that the models actually deal with personally are men.

~BB~

[GroobySteven]

So I have a question now: what happens if someone starts a thread for a particular set and each user only posts 3 photos to it? :geek:

~BB~

Good point.
I'd ask the mods to delete the majority of the photos. As you can see, the rule is fairly loose on here and it's only if it gets abused or somebody isn't aware of it, then we have to ask them not to. Most people have been cool about it.

[Boardwalkempire]

I don't want to get into the old chestnut of rights/wrongs of downloading but just some facts.

1. How would they track all of us? Companies don't, they request the names and addresses of people from ISP's of IP addresses known to have downloaded a specific file. They then send out notifications to those individuals that they will be sued.

2. This website says post pics. I'm sure in their Terms and Conditions there is a disclaimer about posting only pics that you have copyright to. I'm fairly confident that this site has had legal action taken against it before (or the threat of it). Producers allow a fair amount of content to be shown (for Grooby it's no more than 3 pics from any 1 set) in fan based forums like this.

3. Nobody is making any profit. Actually as Bella stated, Hungangels is an affiliate and it is a profitable enterprise but it's irrelevant. Theft of copyright is not dependent on making a profit or not.

We along with a lot of other TS producers have been taking legal action against pirates on a number of levels for many years. More recently because of media coverage on lawyers going after bittorrent users, it's had more exposure but we have been successful in this for the last 6 months and hopefully recouping some costs from losses due to it being shown and desseminated. Because of the current DMCA laws, it's impossible for us to go after tube sites or the like as an individual company (we can't afford to) but we're working with many mainstream companies to look at ways to close these people down.
If you are downloading illegal content, there is a possibility, no matter how slim, that you could be sued.

So your telling me saving an image on to a computer is considered illegal?

[pointblack]

I don't want to get into the old chestnut of rights/wrongs of downloading but just some facts.

1. How would they track all of us? Companies don't, they request the names and addresses of people from ISP's of IP addresses known to have downloaded a specific file. They then send out notifications to those individuals that they will be sued.

2. This website says post pics. I'm sure in their Terms and Conditions there is a disclaimer about posting only pics that you have copyright to. I'm fairly confident that this site has had legal action taken against it before (or the threat of it). Producers allow a fair amount of content to be shown (for Grooby it's no more than 3 pics from any 1 set) in fan based forums like this.

3. Nobody is making any profit. Actually as Bella stated, Hungangels is an affiliate and it is a profitable enterprise but it's irrelevant. Theft of copyright is not dependent on making a profit or not.

We along with a lot of other TS producers have been taking legal action against pirates on a number of levels for many years. More recently because of media coverage on lawyers going after bittorrent users, it's had more exposure but we have been successful in this for the last 6 months and hopefully recouping some costs from losses due to it being shown and desseminated. Because of the current DMCA laws, it's impossible for us to go after tube sites or the like as an individual company (we can't afford to) but we're working with many mainstream companies to look at ways to close these people down.
If you are downloading illegal content, there is a possibility, no matter how slim, that you could be sued.

Let me sum this up for him.

One way or another I'm gonna get my money!!!! :whistle:

[GroobySteven]

So your telling me saving an image on to a computer is considered illegal?

It could be, depending on where you got it, although in the case of "a image" then unlikely it would go further.
For example, if you downloaded some images posted by a company/a model on here or from their preview pages and kept them for your own use then I doubt anything would come from it. If you went to a website or used torrents to download the content, without paying for it, then yes it would be illegal.

[GroobySteven]

Mandy's on SMC now, remember?



That may be so, but they're only one company. There's still you, Bob, Joey Silvera, Sammy Mancini, and whomever else I'm leaving out. Collectively, the men still wield more influence than the women within the niche. Not to mention that nearly 100% of photog and promoters who are not models are also men.

~BB~

Mandy is on SMC but I think she does all her own production. Bob remember, is also on SMC now.
Collectively, there are many more male owners than non-male but I'd suggest most industry and certainly entertainment (adult ot none) would be balanced that way.

[GroobySteven]

Let me sum this up for him.

One way or another I'm gonna get my money!!!! :whistle:


Of course, it's a business. If we don't make profit or the profit diminishes then so does our budget and it's trickle down effect to our employees, members, models, contractors, servers, landlords, etc.

[Boardwalkempire]

Of course, it's a business. If we don't make profit or the profit diminishes then so does our budget and it's trickle down effect to our employees, members, models, contractors, servers, landlords, etc.

I just read online images on to a computer is legal as long as it is not distributed or profit is made.
I guess its downloading of movies etc is what is illegal.

oh well i dont even do that. Good to know for the future tho! thanks for the heads up

[GroobySteven]

I just read online images on to a computer is legal as long as it is not distributed or profit is made.
I guess its downloading of movies etc is what is illegal.

oh well i dont even do that. Good to know for the future tho! thanks for the heads up

Downloading them illegally is the key. A member of our site could join for a month and download every video and keep them on his hard drive for as long as he wanted, legally. What he couldn't do as you pointed out is distribute them (which would include showing them on his own site). Images are the same, if you download images which were stolen from a company or individual, then you could potentially have a problem.

Downloading images from this site, isn't going to get you in trouble.

[pointblack]

Of course, it's a business. If we don't make profit or the profit diminishes then so does our budget and it's trickle down effect to our employees, members, models, contractors, servers, landlords, etc.

Or investors!!! :whistle:

[Boardwalkempire]

Downloading them illegally is the key. A member of our site could join for a month and download every video and keep them on his hard drive for as long as he wanted, legally. What he couldn't do as you pointed out is distribute them (which would include showing them on his own site). Images are the same, if you download images which were stolen from a company or individual, then you could potentially have a problem.

Downloading images from this site, isn't going to get you in trouble.



I see. Well thats good to know. How do i know if im getting my sites from the right or wrong places?

[BellaBellucci]

Good point.
I'd ask the mods to delete the majority of the photos. As you can see, the rule is fairly loose on here and it's only if it gets abused or somebody isn't aware of it, then we have to ask them not to. Most people have been cool about it.

And if they refuse? Then what? You either sue the site which will claim 1st Amendment protection or sue the users individually for which you still need the site's cooperation, right? Plus the legal fees for such a recovery action put you in a position to lose even when you win. Sounds like a conundrum.

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

Or investors!!! :whistle:

Hey man, nice shot!

YouTube - Filter - Hey Man, Nice Shot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9mJ82x_l-E)

~BB~

[GroobySteven]

And if they refuse? Then what? You either sue the site which will claim 1st Amendment protection or sue the users individually for which you still need the site's cooperation, right? Plus the legal fees for such a recovery action put you in a position to lose even when you win. Sounds like a conundrum.

~BB~

No it never gets to that, HungAngels is always very good but if a site was to do that, we'd send our a DMCA notification (wiki it). If they didn't act on that, then we'd take it to their host, who would remove it or disable the site until it was removed.

[BellaBellucci]

And wait, so you still get 50% affiliate revenue? The only thing that does for the model is allow her to assume more of the control which is to say more of the critical risk, but not more of the profit.

I added this to a post in editing after the fact. You probably didn't see it. I'd like to give you a chance to respond because I think it's a little shady.


No it never gets to that, HungAngels is always very good but if a site was to do that, we'd send our a DMCA notification (wiki it). If they didn't act on that, then we'd take it to their host, who would remove it or disable the site until it was removed.

I'm not talking about HA. I'm talking about Joe Schmo's TS Forum. What if the host refuses too as many so often do? I'n just saying it's complicated at best and aggressive at worst to try to take on this problem head on like that. And I know what a DMCA notification is, thank you. :lol:

~BB~

[GroobySteven]

Or investors!!! :whistle:
ALL of the investors ARE employees, members, models, contractors ... we don't have outside investors.

[Boardwalkempire]

No it never gets to that, HungAngels is always very good but if a site was to do that, we'd send our a DMCA notification (wiki it). If they didn't act on that, then we'd take it to their host, who would remove it or disable the site until it was removed.


Is that why your always on this site? to make sure non of your company pics get on here?

Now that i know this i dont know if its good idea to go onto google and search my fav shemales...you have took away something spacial from me lol

[pointblack]

Hey man, nice shot!

YouTube - Filter - Hey Man, Nice Shot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9mJ82x_l-E)

~BB~
You know sometime it is hard to make out what Filter really means! lol

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/15660112/sn/478667426/name/sigpic119_3.jpg

[BellaBellucci]

ALL of the investors ARE employees, members, models, contractors ... we don't have outside investors.

Umm, he meant you. :lol:

~BB~

[GroobySteven]

Umm, he meant you. :lol:

~BB~
I'm an employee and I get my salary and bonuses like the other employees.

[pointblack]

ALL of the investors ARE employees, members, models, contractors ... we don't have outside investors.
Ok.. I see.. But I...

Wait a minute are you telling me that you gave a slice of your pie to the associates?

I tried that as well, but they call it fucking the help!

[pointblack]

Umm, he meant you. :lol:

~BB~
Me? You? Him? They? US?

YouTube - Rush Hour 3 - He is Mi and I am Yu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU4lYcN6zEY)

[pointblack]

Double Trouble!!!!!

[GroobySteven]

And wait, so you still get 50% affiliate revenue? The only thing that does for the model is allow her to assume more of the control which is to say more of the critical risk, but not more of the profit.
We don't get an affiliate revenue from our models site whatsoever, we get paid a percentage to manage it and it's far less than 50%. In the event, she wishes to leave then she retains control.





I'm not talking about HA. I'm talking about Joe Schmo's TS Forum. What if the host refuses too as many so often do? I'n just saying it's complicated at best and aggressive at worst to try to take on this problem head on like that. And I know what a DMCA notification is, thank you. :lol:

It never gets to that, almost all of Joe Schmo's forums delete upon receipt of a DMCA because if not, at worst they can be sued, at best we take it to the host who will ALWAYS take action. The DMCA notification is their safe harbour only if they abide by it.

[GroobySteven]

I tried that as well, but they call it fucking the help!

Nice :party:

[BellaBellucci]

Is that why your always on this site? to make sure non of your company pics get on here?

Actually it's because he bought out the other forum of note under the promise that he would respect the users and mods that were already in place and then backed out on his promise, transforming the site into a cookie cutter version of itself where he could hock his wares. It came to a point where the changes over there increased traffic over here and now he's trying to gain influence here as best he can because this site isn't for sale. I've been his biggest obstacle in that regard.

The fact that he's trying to act like he's respectful, responsive, and even helpful all of a sudden is very telling, particularly after the sock puppet attacks on me yesterday.

~BB~

[GroobySteven]

Actually it's because he bought out the other forum of note under the promise that he would respect the users and mods that were already in place and then backed out on his promise, transforming the site into a cookie cutter version of itself where he could hock his wares. It came to a point where the changes over there increased traffic over here and now he's trying to gain influence here as best he can because this site isn't for sale. I've been his biggest obstacle in that regard.

The fact that he's trying to act like he's respectful, responsive, and even helpful all of a sudden is very telling, particularly after the sock puppet attacks on me yesterday.

~BB~

I'm here because I work online (hopefully) 8-10 hrs a day and this site is part of our marketing strategy, you'll also find me on other places at the same time as well as multi-tasking elsewhere.

90% of the users and mods are still on HungDevils.com Bella and much happier with the way it's operated then the previous administration, which is what Vicki had planned all along, marginalizing the few. It's a different site to this one completely and runs well in it's own right.

I saw the attacks on you and considering one moderator here already stated one of those individuals had been here under a different alias, then I would have hoped that they would have been either outed or kicked by now. I wasn't going to participate in this thread, until I saw some facts needed stating about content piracy.

[pointblack]

Actually it's because he bought out the other forum of note under the promise that he would respect the users and mods that were already in place and then backed out on his promise, transforming the site into a cookie cutter version of itself where he could hock his wares. It came to a point where the changes over there increased traffic over here and now he's trying to gain influence here as best he can because this site isn't for sale. I've been his biggest obstacle in that regard.

The fact that he's trying to act like he's respectful, responsive, and even helpful all of a sudden is very telling, particularly after the sock puppet attacks on me yesterday.

~BB~
Wait is that why my old mod log ins don't work?

This is how he treated me in BUS 101

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/15660112/sn/902465132/name/2mzledy.jpg.jpg

[BellaBellucci]

I'm here because I work online (hopefully) 8-10 hrs a day and this site is part of our marketing strategy, you'll also find me on other places at the same time as well as multi-tasking elsewhere.

90% of the users and mods are still on HungDevils.com Bella and much happier with the way it's operated then the previous administration, which is what Vicki had planned all along, marginalizing the few. It's a different site to this one completely and runs well in it's own right.

I saw the attacks on you and considering one moderator here already stated one of those individuals had been here under a different alias, then I would have hoped that they would have been either outed or kicked by now. I wasn't going to participate in this thread, until I saw some facts needed stating about content piracy.

90% of the users are still there? Sure they are; they're probably not going to bother to delete their accounts. The question is how many still post, and I think the answer is indeterminable, but the overall activity on HD has dropped quite a bit I've noticed, sometimes with 2-3 day old posts on the front page. I think you're being disingenuous.

And you don't care if sock puppets who attack me get banned or not. Stop frontin'. If I didn't view it as free publicity, you'd be cheering in the front row. And actually, the fact that you didn't says a lot too. Your absence, as well as that of the usual suspects, was quite conspicuous. :lol:

~BB~

[GroobySteven]

90% of the users are still there? Sure they are; they're probably not going to bother to delete their accounts. The question is how many still post, and I think the answer in indeterminable, but the overall activity on HD has dropped quite a bit I've noticed, sometimes with 2-3 day old posts on the front page. I think you're being disingenuous.

And you don't care if sock puppets who attack me get banned or not. Stop frontin'. If I didn't view it as free publicity, you'd love it! :lol:

~BB~

Most of them still post Bella but I'm not going to get into this - as it's off topic. Most people have a choice where they go to post, you don't.

I don't think anyone should have multiple usernames on any forum.

I tried to answer your questions fairly, I've more things to do then to get into a slanging match with you today, maybe later when I want to relax.

[BellaBellucci]

Most of them still post Bella but I'm not going to get into this - as it's off topic.

It's my thread so it's OK. Please, I'd love for you to speculate on the percentage of users who still post on HD.

~BB~

[pointblack]

This is getting good!

Folks we will be right back after this short break. Don't go away!

YouTube - Beer comercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzAxWWL4wZA)

[CORVETTEDUDE]

It's my thread so it's OK. Please, I'd love for you to speculate on the percentage of users who still post on HD.

~BB~

I know this former user AND moderator, does not....because of the ownership change. I do believe my account to still show active, however. Don't go there to look, don't go there to visit.

[pointblack]

I know this former user AND moderator, does not....because of the ownership change. I do believe my account to still show active, however. Don't go there to look, don't go there to visit.
They are now on channel "My Avatar" lol

[GroobySteven]

I know this former user AND moderator, does not....because of the ownership change. I do believe my account to still show active, however. Don't go there to look, don't go there to visit.

You made your point clearly at the time and I respect the fact that you stood by your words.
That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people still using the site and enjoying it without fearing ridicule from another ex-moderator. Vicki managed to play it well.

[BellaBellucci]

Vicki managed to play it well.

OMG, what are you talking about? It was yours to lose and you blew it.

~BB~

[Teabagger Vance]

I know this former user AND moderator, does not....because of the ownership change. I do believe my account to still show active, however. Don't go there to look, don't go there to visit.

I checked the list of mods on Hung Devils. They only have one moderator listed there, who isn't an Admin (Chaingunner). Well, they actually have two listed, but one of them (Hugh Jarrod) died two years ago. Maybe it's time for them to remove his name from that?

So much for "90% of the mods are still there." There are more former HD mods than there are current mods.

[GroobySteven]

I checked the list of mods on Hung Devils. They only have one moderator listed there, who isn't an Admin (Chaingunner). Well, they actually have two listed, but one of them (Hugh Jarrod) died two years ago. Maybe it's time for them to remove his name from that?

So much for "90% of the mods are still there." There are more former HD mods than there are current mods.


I said 90% of mods AND users. There are only two mods, myself and Username. I've been asked to leave Hugh Jarrod's there by Vicki as well as others.

[BellaBellucci]

I said 90% of mods AND users.

The fuck?! So you really mean just users, an overall number of registered members. And you still haven't answered my question: how many of those users still post, and moreover, how regularly?

~BB~

[pointblack]

The fuck?! So you really mean just users, an overall number of registered members. And you still haven't answered my question: how many of those users still post, and moreover, how regularly?

~BB~
Err!!! Lexi is blowing you up on another thread!

[GroobySteven]

The fuck?! So you really mean just users, an overall number of registered members. And you still haven't answered my question: how many of those users still post?

~BB~

I don't have to answer your question?
The fact is, I don't know exactly but I see many names that have been there a long time regularly posting. The site is running well, with plenty of people joining, posting and participating. The SEO is working nicely and I'm making good sales from it. The current users of it, are happy there.
Why is it so much of a concern to you Bella what http://www.Hungdevils.com is up to? You don't have to go there (well YOU can't anyway) - it's open to ALMOST everyone.

It does however, look like you are more concerned with the people posting there, than I am. Perhaps you should stick to that other, other forum ... how many members did eventually go there (and how many came back)?

[BellaBellucci]

I don't have to answer your question?
The fact is, I don't know exactly but I see many names that have been there a long time regularly posting. The site is running well, with plenty of people joining, posting and participating. The SEO is working nicely and I'm making good sales from it. The current users of it, are happy there.
Why is it so much of a concern to you Bella what http://www.Hungdevils.com is up to?

No, you're right. You don't have to answer my question, but you answered all the others and specifically avoided this one. The truth is that when there are 3 day old posts on the front page of a message forum, you know it's in trouble. If you don't realize that, then you get what you deserve for your incompetence.

~BB~

[GroobySteven]

...then you get what you deserve for your incompetence.

~BB~

Yes I do. I'll do well to remember how incompetent I am.
How's business for you Bella?

[TSLexiWade]

Yes I do. I'll do well to remember how incompetent I am.
How's business for you Bella?

Can't be too damn busy for her if she's on here flappin her lips all day...

[BellaBellucci]

Can't be too damn busy for her if she's on here flappin her lips all day...

Mmm, insolence is hot! Keep growling tiger! :dancing:

~BB~

[Teabagger Vance]

I said 90% of mods AND users. There are only two mods, myself and Username. I've been asked to leave Hugh Jarrod's there by Vicki as well as others.

I'm guessing that you pulled that 90% figure out of your ass. You've just been proven to have lied and your reply to me is a joke. I'll break it down for you, in the hopes you can comprehend my point.

1. You made a claim that 90% of HD users AND mods are still on HD. Thus, you implied that 90% of HD mods are still there, based on your usage of the conjunction: and.

2. Anyone can view the list of the mods on HD. There are currently two "Global Moderators" listed there: Chaingunner and Hugh Jarrod. I'm not counting Username here, as he was promoted to Admin.

3. It is a fact that a number of mods from HD are now gone. Actually, they are all gone, except for Chaingunner (who you don't seem to be counting as a mod).

4. With only one living mod left, your claim that "90% of HD mods are still there" is a lie. A more accurate statement is that about 20% of the mod staff has stayed on since you took over.

Like I said, Hugh died two years ago. I suppose it was a good thing to leave his name on there at the time. But now, it's rather ghoulish.

Anyway, there's just no reason to believe your claim that 90% of the users and posters are still on that board. Why even resort to lying and making unsupported statements?

90%...20%...what's the difference? :dancing:

[GroobySteven]

90%...20%...what's the difference? :dancing:

Exactly 70%.
Yes you are right, I did pull that figure out of my ass. I don't have stats on exactly how many are still there from before - I just see many of the same names and if I could be bothered, I do a count - but you seem more that way inclined.
:Bowdown:

[pointblack]

90%...20%...what's the difference? :dancing:

I say the 9 and the 2. Just a joke :party:

Not a very funny one I guess. (?)

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/15660112/sn/1469069710/name/2q1z68y.jpg.jpg

[Teabagger Vance]

Exactly 70%.
Yes you are right, I did pull that figure out of my ass. I don't have stats on exactly how many are still there from before - I just see many of the same names and if I could be bothered, I do a count - but you seem more that way inclined.
:Bowdown:

Translation:

"Thanks for proving that I lied!" You're a tool.

[GroobySteven]

Translation:

"Thanks for proving that I lied!" You're a tool.

You are welcome. So let me ask you a question ... do you run under any other names on tranny forums?

[WendyWilliams]

SMC is operated by a female.
Joanna Jet runs her own production company.
Wendy Williams runs her own production company (affiliated with SMC).

However, most TS companies are male owned.


My website is affiliated with SMC, my Production Company remains Independant and I continue to have my own distributor, pay for my own production costs (pre and pro), do all my own marketing, ETCC...


I dont think people understand just how expensive and hard it is to go Independant, especially in the DVD market which is NOT worth it LOL

[Mia Mastrianni]

DVD's are DEAD

[Mia Mastrianni]

Can't be too damn busy for her if she's on here flappin her lips all day...

Lol....flappin' her ass cheeks too. What a slug she is.

[Teabagger Vance]

You are welcome. So let me ask you a question ... do you run under any other names on tranny forums?

What kind of a retarded-monkey-ass question is that? Oh, yeah, one from someone who's talking out of his ass. :loser:

[DL_NL]

Put simply, my 'obsession' is overblown and largely a product of necessity. Maybe you missed the constant barrage of attacks by newbies and sock-puppets that I endured earlier today? It's not the first time they've tried it. This will only end when both sides want it to and since they have a gang versus what is essentially just me, I can't let my guard down. I'm sorry, but they've forced me to become really dug in at this point, and moreover, believe you me, I'm still only just talking truth here anyway.

Well, howzabout just putting those idiots on your ignore list? Without that feature, this place would become such a chore that I'd simply sign out never to return. The list simply requires updating from time to time.

When you don't care what the idiots say about you, you might as well ignore them properly. Responding to them only validates them and increases your blood pressure.

YMMV...

[BellaBellucci]

Well, howzabout just putting those idiots on your ignore list? Without that feature, this place would become such a chore that I'd simply sign out never to return. The list simply requires updating from time to time.

When you don't care what the idiots say about you, you might as well ignore them properly. Responding to them only validates them and increases your blood pressure.

YMMV...

... because I'm not going to let them come in here and act like they run shit to compensate for the fact that Seanchai can't buy this site like he did HD and TGFlix. He's creating a monopoly on industry communication online. I'm acting as a sort of FTC.

Responding to them doesn't validate them one iota. Generally, if I'm responding it's because they're full of shit and someone needs to call them out on it and make them explain themselves, something Seanchai isn't accustomed to doing because his ego is so large from being the boss for so long. I was a boss once too, and now I'm not, so trust that I understand the psychology.

~BB~

[Mia Mastrianni]

Bella do you really think the garbage you are spewing means anything to anyone? I've never seen anyone so hung up on what they have to say. You just like to hear yourself talk. You are so insecure due to your lack of real intelligence that you think you can pull the wool over everyone's eyes by running these diatribes on every thread here. You are nothing more than a hijacker. Can't you start your own stupid thread.....oh yea who would even respond. Now I get it....do you????

[BellaBellucci]

Keep bumping my thread, psycho. :)

~BB~

[Mia Mastrianni]

Boink :Bowdown:

[wendell]

It's seems more than a touch ironic Mia to request someone to tone down their presence on this the forum whilst simultaneously creating a thread dedicated to that same individual.

[BellaBellucci]

It's seems more than a touch ironic Mia to request someone to tone down their presence on this the forum whilst simultaneously creating a thread dedicated to that same individual.

OK, the truth is that Mia is my sock puppet. You caught me in my false flag attack. :whistle:

~BB~

[Mia Mastrianni]

don't cha just love irony

[Mia Mastrianni]

OK, the truth is that Mia is my sock puppet. You caught me in my false flag attack. :whistle:

~BB~

You sure got a thing for dirty old socks. Very odd fetish you have

[DL_NL]

Another candidate for the Ignore function. Hasn't uttered a sensible word yet, just trying to stir the pot.

Idiot.

[tsmandy]

Yes I'm on SMC. I operate my site completely seperate from any other girl in the Network and predominantly use women as shooters, models, editors, makeup, bondage riggers, etc..... You really know nothing about my crew and anyone who has worked with me will vouch for the integrity with which I run my project.

SMC are more than anything my financial partners and marketing. I do all the casting, creative, travel arrangements, all the long hours that go into pre and post production.

Also, TS Seduction is directed by a trans guy, and Kink is a company which by and large treats talent really fucking well.

I've worked really hard to conduct my business in a way that is positive and enriching to the other women that come into contact with it and I really don't appreciate you making uninformed judgments in a public manner.



Mandy's on SMC now, remember? And wait, so you still get 50% affiliate revenue? The only thing that does for the model is allow her to assume more of the control which is to say more of the critical risk, but not more of the profit.



That may be so, but they're only one company. There's still you, Bob, Joey Silvera, Sammy Mancini, and whomever else I'm leaving out. Collectively, the men still wield more influence than the women within the niche.

Not to mention that men also make up nearly 100% of the photogs, promoters, and web designers. I know you have some graphic artists and post-producers that are women, so that's a step in the right direction, but most of the people that the models actually deal with personally are men.

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

Yes I'm on SMC. I operate my site completely seperate from any other girl in the Network and predominantly use women as shooters, models, editors, makeup, bondage riggers, etc..... You really know nothing about my crew and anyone who has worked with me will vouch for the integrity with which I run my project.

SMC are more than anything my financial partners and marketing. I do all the casting, creative, travel arrangements, all the long hours that go into pre and post production.

Also, TS Seduction is directed by a trans guy, and Kink is a company which by and large treats talent really fucking well.

I've worked really hard to conduct my business in a way that is positive and enriching to the other women that come into contact with it and I really don't appreciate you making uninformed judgments in a public manner.


What I really don't appreciate is you taking it personally:

Collectively, the men still wield more influence than the women within the niche.


For every girl like you there are 100 who would disagree with your assessments. The industry is NOT inviting to new models. In fact it's downright hostile. Just because you managed to get through that period of your career, that doesn't mean you can preach to the rest of us how terrific the industry is.

~BB~

[tsmandy]

I won't take it personally if you don't malign my work and ethic. I search ha every couple of months to check in with some of my fans and here I find you talking shit. Leave my name out of your tirades and we'll be chill.

Never have I ever said the porn industry was inviting. I've dealt with alot of shit in this business, and have always been vocal about it, and for the most part am very selective about my business partners. Adult is a very cutthroat and harsh business from all angles and it takes a certain type to succeed.

I treat my talent very fucking well, and that is why some of the industry's more well known & successful stars are excited to work with me. If you want to be a positive force learn from your sisters that are making a positive difference and stop being divisive.


What I really don't appreciate is you taking it personally:



For every girl like you there are 100 who would disagree with your assessments. The industry is NOT inviting to new models. In fact it's downright hostile. Just because you managed to get through that period of your career, that doesn't mean you can preach to the rest of us how terrific the industry is.

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

I won't take it personally if you don't malign my work and ethic. I search ha every couple of months to check in with some of my fans and here I find you talking shit. Leave my name out of your tirades and we'll be chill.

We were discussing your career academically. Nobody attacked you. Geez, you should chill! :lol:


Never have I ever said the porn industry was inviting. I've dealt with alot of shit in this business, and have always been vocal about it, and for the most part am very selective about my business partners. Adult is a very cutthroat and harsh business from all angles and it takes a certain type to succeed.

... and yet here you are arguing the point. :?


I treat my talent very fucking well, and that is why some of the industry's more well known & successful stars are excited to work with me. If you want to be a positive force learn from your sisters that are making a positive difference and stop being divisive.

Maybe you didn't read the title of this thread. I don't believe in the sisterhood, because others only invoke it when it's fortuitous for them. I work with, try to help, and always respect people who offer me the same treatment in kind. Period. I will never give someone respect just because they're trans and I think it's a terrible idea for anyone to do so. It's an invitation for disaster.

Like I said: try to get along, try to be cordial, but don't take trust for granted. Nobody stabs each other in the back better than 'family.'

~BB~

[miner]

Dear Bella, I like your stands in this thread and the adult porn business thread. Your answer all posters with measured responses and acknowledge the points they make. Also you are honest. Good for you and carry on, my dear.

Miner

[BellaBellucci]

Dear Bella, I like your stands in this thread and the adult porn business thread. Your answer all posters with measured responses and acknowledge the points they make. Also you are honest. Good for you and carry on, my dear.

Miner

Thank you. I appreciate your support. :)

~BB~

[SirCumsAlot]

If you want to be a positive force learn from your sisters that are making a positive difference and stop being divisive.

Thats one of the most intelligent comments I've read on this hole damn website since I've joined this site

[lisaparadise]

Thats one of the most intelligent comments I've read on this hole damn website since I've joined this siteimpessive since most of us didnt even know you could read.

[LAtoNY]

I'm quite sure I speak for ALL of this community (TS, dudes, etc), when I say, please show us the baloney pony on this thread first. Then we can make a fair and balanced decision on whether we'd like to invest the time to register on your site. You see, I have come to a crossroads in my life -- and without question I always took the wrong path. You know why?? Because it was too damned hard. Now Bella, I think you too have acome to a crossroads in your life. Deep down you know you must post a photo of Mr. Blinky here on HA. Please do the right thing.
- Captain Slade



We were discussing your career academically. Nobody attacked you. Geez, you should chill! :lol:



... and yet here you are arguing the point. :?



Maybe you didn't read the title of this thread. I don't believe in the sisterhood, because others only invoke it when it's fortuitous for them. I work with, try to help, and always respect people who offer me the same treatment in kind. Period. I will never give someone respect just because they're trans and I think it's a terrible idea for anyone to do so. It's an invitation for disaster.

Like I said: try to get along, try to be cordial, but don't take trust for granted. Nobody stabs each other in the back better than 'family.'

~BB~