Qu'ran Burning on September 11, 2010

[bte]

Has anyone heard about this yet? A Christian church in Gainesville, FL plan to burn copies of the Qu'ran on Sept. 11.

Here's the article courtesy of FoxNews:

The head of a controversial church that plans to burn Korans to mark nine years since the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks says he is not deterred by protests, death threats or warnings by the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan (http://www.foxnews.com/topics/politics/afghanistan.htm), MyFoxOrlando.com reported Tuesday.

Gen. David Petraeus, head of Multinational Forces in Afghanistan, on Tuesday repeated his warning that any plans to burn the Muslim holy book -- considered a major offense in the Islamic community -- would jeopardize U.S. military efforts.

But Terry Jones, pastor of the 50-member Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Fla., told MyFoxOrlando.com that he and the church's members feel strongly about their decision to hold the book burning despite being denied a permit from the fire department.

"We understand the general's concerns, we are taking those into consideration," Jones was quoted saying. "We feel it's maybe the right time for America to stand up. How long are we going to bow down? How long are we going to be controlled by the terrorists, by radical Islam?"

On Tuesday, Petraeus said that even rumors of the possibility the church would hold a Koran-burning touched off protests in Afghanistan, Pakistan (http://www.foxnews.com/topics/politics/pakistan.htm) and Indonesia.

"Images of the burning of a Koran would undoubtedly be used by extremists in Afghanistan -- and around the world -- to inflame public opinion and incite violence," Petraeus said. "Were the actual burning to take place, the safety of our soldiers and civilians would be put in jeopardy and accomplishment of the mission would be made more difficult."

Though the National Association of Evangelicals and the National Council of Churches have denounced the plan to burn the Koran, Jones indicated he had support from other churches around the country. He did not name any, however.

Jones said he and members of his church are taking seriously several death threats directed at them, but if something happened, it would not be their fault.

"We will not be responsible," Jones said. "We are only reacting to the violence that is already there in that religion."

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What do you guys think about it?

[JerseyMike]

People are free to build a mosque people are free to burn the Qu'ran just like people are free to burn the American flag that's America. Plus military efforts are already in jeopardy because it is not a military action but a police role which they are basically playing for in there and we were never wanted there in the first place. Doesn't matter if people burn the Qu'ran or not random crazy Muslims will want to kill Americans no matter what.

[trish]

Doesn't matter if people burn the Qu'ran or not random crazy Muslims will want to kill Americans no matter what. Sure, and random crazy Christians will fuck innocent children up the ass. The problem is that burning the Qu'ran does nothing to help American efforts anywhere in the Middle East. If you want to burn something, just wait one day and burn the confederate flag on September 12th: National Burn the Confederate Flag Day.

[bte]

Sure, and random crazy Christians will fuck innocent children up the ass. The problem is that burning the Qu'ran does nothing to help American efforts anywhere in the Middle East. If you want to burn something, just wait one day and burn the confederate flag on September 12th: National Burn the Confederate Flag Day.

Good point, also I didn't know there was a National Burn the Confederate Flag Day. By burning the Qu'ran, the only thing it does is reinforce what Muslim extremists are telling people who are hesistant about joining in the jihad about America.

[rameses2]

So wait... It's protected "speech" to burn qu'rans but building Community centers and mosques in the same hemisphere as Ground Zero is completely wrong? If you're trying to prove you're as insensitive to others' ways of life as the people you protest agaainst, I'd said you've done it, "bravo"!

[bte]

I heard on the news that the pastor of the church said that his church is still going ahead with the Qu'ran burning. He also said that scripture reinforces the idea of burning the Qu'ran. I can't remember what Bible verses he said.

[Dino Velvet]

I really hope the Church changes their mind and decides not to burn the Qu'ran.

[russtafa]

burn baby burn

[trish]

burn baby burnYeah, I want to see those stars and bars burn too.

[Dino Velvet]

I wouldn't want to see either burned.

[hippifried]

Is this a great country or what? Only in America can you be as stupid as you want to be.

[PomonaCA]

I support the burning of the koran but oppose this obvious attention-whoring by this church. Burn the koran, draw pictures of Mohammed and let women vote if you want to troll Islam, but holding press conferences and rubbing it in their face is totally against the teachings of Jesus The Christ.

[hippifried]

There you go.

[bte]

I support the burning of the koran but oppose this obvious attention-whoring by this church. Burn the koran, draw pictures of Mohammed and let women vote if you want to troll Islam, but holding press conferences and rubbing it in their face is totally against the teachings of Jesus The Christ.

Do you also support burning the American flag?

[thombergeron]

I support the burning of the koran but oppose this obvious attention-whoring by this church. Burn the koran, draw pictures of Mohammed and let women vote if you want to troll Islam, but holding press conferences and rubbing it in their face is totally against the teachings of Jesus The Christ.

Do you also support submerging a crucifix in a jar of urine?

[Ben]

YouTube- Has Der Spiegel outed Quran Burning Pastor Terry Jones as a failed Jim Jones? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raiN0_Azin0)

[Ben]

YouTube- A Closer Look At Pastor Terry Jones (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7p7lbhEb4c)

[Ben]

MM
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9yYafUGbK4)

[Ben]

This is interesting:

YouTube- Founding Fathers did NOT want USA to be Christian nation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RuY5B1T5NQ)

[PomonaCA]

Do you also support burning the American flag?


No, but I do support lighting a cross on your front lawn.

[hippifried]

No, but I do support lighting a cross on your front lawn.
Why am I not surprized?

[Dino Velvet]

That pastor has one crazy 'stache.

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/7/2010/08/500x_pastor_terry_jones.jpg

[russtafa]

I wonder how long some of you would survive in a islamic society? With your very liberal veiws you still back these people so not long. VERY STRANGE...

[biguy4tvtscd]

Burn a cross, burn a flag, burn a "sacred" book. They're all valid forms of protest. There are no sacred cows, nothing is above criticism or condemnation

I love America, and the foundation it rests on. That, specifically, is why I support those forms of expression.

And fwiw, I can think of no logical reason for myself to ever burn an American flag. However, if the act is made illegal, you can be sure I will be the first one out there in protest, flag and lighter in hand.

[Niccolo]

Any of you people defending the koran actually read it? All it's good for is warming your hands. Or wiping your arse.

[Coroner]

Isn´t Terry Jones just the Christian version of a taliban? As an atheist I´m seeking civilized ways to criticize religion and oppose its sick ideas. Burning books is an act of primitivism. Religious fanatics are retards, wherever they live and whatever sort of myth they practice. Somehow there´s truth in words of the old anarchist Buenaventura Durruti: "The only church that illuminates is a burning church."

[rameses2]

The pictures from Abu Ghraib were cited as a recruitment tool for Al Qaeda. General Patreaus has stated that burning these Qur'ans will make EVERY American a target of extremists' wrath. I don't give a fart's width about ANY religion but there is NO GOOD reason for this to happen.

[thombergeron]

No, but I do support lighting a cross on your front lawn.

So now we know who you are.

The problem with bigotry, intellectually, is that it's arbitrary and based on lies. So in order to be a bigot, one must also be a hypocrite and a liar. It's interesting that elsewhere, you bemoan the declining morality in our society. The Catholics consider hypocrisy to be among the gravest of sins.

[PomonaCA]

So now we know who you are.

The problem with bigotry, intellectually, is that it's arbitrary and based on lies. So in order to be a bigot, one must also be a hypocrite and a liar. It's interesting that elsewhere, you bemoan the declining morality in our society. The Catholics consider hypocrisy to be among the gravest of sins.


You needed to know who I was? I didn't know I had that much of your attention. What a shallow life you must lead.

[hippifried]

The Catholics consider hypocrisy to be among the gravest of sins.

Yeah, well since the Catholics are on the Klan hitlist, right behind negros & Jews, That argument probably won't have much affect on Pomona. The klan/nazis are terrorists, with exactly the same mentality as alQaeda. Although I truly doubt that any of those loudmouths have the stones to actually strap one on. They're perfectly willing to totally pervert the faith they claim to believe in to make up for the fact that their delusions of adequacy are constantly dashed, even in their own minds. They're just punks.

[bte]

Just heard on the radio that the pastor down in Florida is not going to burn Qu'rans tomorrow, but will meet with the Imam [sic] in NY to discuss the mosque or Muslim community center, whatever it is, issue.

[Silcc69]

I wonder how much moeny this pastor has gotten from people that support his cause?

[russtafa]

this really disappoints me.When muslims will stick to their guns and kill people when they make their pledge

[Ben]

Published on Friday, September 10, 2010 by Salon.com (http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/09/10/blood/index.html) The Pastor and Cheap, Selective Concern for "Blood-Spilling

by Glenn Greenwald

After WikiLeaks published the Afghanistan war logs, political and media figures fell all over themselves to publicly condemn the group for having "blood on its hands," despite the fact that (1) there is, as Wired noted just yesterday (http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/09/iraq-war-docs/), "no evidence to date . . . that anyone has suffered actual harm due to the documents" and (2) many of the people most vocally condemning WikiLeaks have enormous amounts of blood on their own hands from the endless wars, bombing campaigns, occupations, and detention regime they supported and still support. But condemning WikiLeaks offers an opportunity for cheap, self-glorifying moralizing; the group has very little power or prestige in Washington and is thus an easy target for royal court journalists. Media figures who treat actual blood-spillers with great reverence thus suddenly found within themselves oh-so-profound concern over "blood-spilling." Contrast, for instance, the well-deserved contempt Tony Blair is facing (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6851VY20100906) as he tries to peddle his self-justifying book with the media red carpet rolled out for every pro-war Washington official -- and the treatment George Bush will receive from the U.S. media when he releases his book -- who spilled gigantic amounts of blood in Iraq and other places in the Muslim world.
The media circus surrounding the Koran-burning pastor illustrates this cowardly dynamic even more extremely. Media figures who would never dream of treating with hostility Respected Political Officials who start wars are competing with one another over who can most flamboyantly express contempt for this inconsequential, powerless joke of a figure. Just watch this 4-minute segment from Morning Joe this morning, one of the most cringe-inducing displays of cheap, cost-free self-righteousness you'll ever see, as a panel that includes Jon Meacham, Mika Brzezinski, and Dan Senor parade the Pastor in front of everyone -- without letting him speak -- so they can voice their profound contempt for him, while Meacham urges him, in the name of Jesus, to refrain from burning the Korans so as to avoid spilling blood:

Do you think that the establishment-serving, power-worshipping Jon Meacham would ever in a million years use language like that to condemn American officials who have actually spilled enormous amounts of blood? An extensive search this morning revealed no instance where Meacham ever condemned or publicly appealed in the name of Jesus to the architects of the attack on Iraq, which resulted in the blood-spilling of hundreds of thousands of human beings.
In November, 2003, Meacham appeared on Fox News with Bill O'Reilly and said this of the leaders who were responsible for that blood-spilling aggression: "Roosevelt and Churchill wrote the parts and first acted the parts that George Bush and Tony Blair are playing." When the Iraq war began, Meacham interviewed George Bush 41 for Newsweek and asked him such probing questions as "How does it feel to be a president sending soldiers into harm's way?" and "Do you talk to your son about how to handle the pressures of war?" And in 2009, Meacham joined the Washington consensus (http://mobile.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/04/27/newsweek/index.html) by demanding that Bush and Cheney be protected from prosecution for their torture and other war crimes, arguing: "to pursue criminal charges against officials at the highest levels -- including the former president and the former vice president -- would set a terrible precedent." That's the standard Washington media maven: as subservient as possible to people with actual power, while showing tough-guy adversarial rage only against the inconsequential and the powerless, like this clownish Florida pastor.
Note, too, as part of that Morning Joe discussion, the ironic demand that the Muslim world recognize that the Koran-burners are only a tiny part of the American population and not representative of the country generally. On Twitter yesterday, Marc Ambinder raised the same point (http://twitter.com/marcambinder/status/24050007977), noting the inability of Americans to make clear to the Muslim world that the Pastor is not representative of Americans generally. That inability is hardly surprising, given that (1) Muslims have encountered the same difficulty with getting Americans to see that Al Qaeda is not representative of Muslims generally (hence the polls showing high levels of anti-Muslim bigotry (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2011799,00.html) in the population and the widespread appeal of the anti-mosque movement), and (2) the countless American policies over the last decade that are perceived as a War on Muslims and thus a close cousin of the Koran burning.
On that last point -- the reason much of the Muslim world sees the Pastor's Koran burning as something other than an aberration in American political culture -- there is a truly superb Op-Ed in The Washington Post today (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/09/AR2010090904735.html?hpid=opinionsbox1) by, of all people, Ted Koppel, who argues that the U.S. Government has done more to help Al Qaeda with our post-9/11 aggression than anything Al Qaeda could have done for itself:
The goal of any organized terrorist attack is to goad a vastly more powerful enemy into an excessive response. And over the past nine years, the United States has blundered into the 9/11 snare with one overreaction after another. . . .
While President Obama has, only recently, declared America's combat role in Iraq over, he glossed over the likelihood that tens of thousands of U.S. troops will have to remain there, possibly for several years to come, because Iraq lacks the military capability to protect itself against external (read: Iranian) aggression. . . .
As for the 100,000 U.S. troops in or headed for Afghanistan, many of them will be there for years to come, too -- not because of America's commitment to a functioning democracy there; even less because of what would happen to Afghan girls and women if the Taliban were to regain control. . . .
Again, this dilemma is partly of our own making. America's war on terrorism is widely perceived throughout Pakistan as a war on Islam. Perhaps bin Laden foresaw some of these outcomes when he launched his 9/11 operation from Taliban-secured bases in Afghanistan. Since nations targeted by terrorist groups routinely abandon some of their cherished principles, he may also have foreseen something along the lines of Abu Ghraib, "black sites," extraordinary rendition and even the prison at Guantanamo Bay.
But in these and many other developments, bin Laden needed our unwitting collaboration, and we have provided it -- more than $1 trillion spent on two wars, more than 5,000 of our troops killed, tens of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans dead. Our military so overstretched that one of the few growth industries in our battered economy is the firms that provide private contractors, for everything from interrogation to security to the gathering of intelligence.
We have raced to Afghanistan and Iraq, and more recently to Yemen and Somalia; we have created a swollen national security apparatus; and we are so absorbed in our own fury and so oblivious to our enemy's intentions that we inflate the building of an Islamic center in Lower Manhattan into a national debate and watch, helpless, while a minister in Florida outrages even our friends in the Islamic world by threatening to burn copies of the Koran.
If bin Laden did not foresee all this, then he quickly came to understand it. . . . Could bin Laden, in his wildest imaginings, have hoped to provoke greater chaos? It is past time to reflect on what our enemy sought, and still seeks, to accomplish -- and how we have accommodated him.
When the Jon Meachams and Mika Brzezinskis work up the courage to condemn the people who have done and are continuing to do this for the "blood they have on their hands," then their purported outrage and beliefs can be viewed as sincere. But they don't do that and won't do that. Righteous anger at those who spill blood is reserved only for hated foreigners (Osama bin Laden) and for the marginalized and powerless who haven't actually spilled any blood (the Koran-burning Pastor and WikiLeaks). That's why this Pastor circus has received so much media attention: it's a cheap, petty and easy way for people with enormous amounts of blood on their own hands to show what Good, Caring People they are by pretending that they hate those who cause it to be spilled.
Read more of Glenn's column at Salon.com (http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/09/10/blood/index.html)

[Niccolo]

YouTube - Obama explains the War on Terror is not against the islam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxVxC3e7wB0)

YouTube - Appeasement (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skvw5BqTEO0)

YouTube - Iron Maiden-2 Minutes To Midnight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L75ikjK1vaI)