Grooby Legal Action against Piracy ...

[GroobySteven]

http://www.clker.com/cliparts/0/f/2/b/12456414081082199629johnny_automatic_laughter.svg. hi.png

[ghbryans1]

A couple of points to consider before you start making a lawyer rich:

1. The amount of software and media illegally downloaded far outstrips what would normally be sold to to the people that download it. If not available, they simply would not and could not buy most of it. The same applies to Web sites. How many users can afford to subscribe to more than one $30 Web site a month?

Claims of lost revenue do not always reflect this reality.

2. The market is saturated and much of the content being produced is sub-par. In other words, you have a lot of producers and performers vying in a limited market that offers an overwhelming number of choices--many of which are not up to snuff.

3. There are always a pricing and packaging options. If a scene that interested someone was available individually for a couple of bucks, you might find that the inconsistent but immediate nature of attraction works to your benefit.

In other words, you can probably make a lot more money being creative and finding a formula that attracts more business rather than becoming litigious.

[GroobySteven]

In other words, you can probably make a lot more money being creative and finding a formula that attracts more business rather than becoming litigious.

Can you do both?

[bobhutt46]

I just cant believe how dumb people are. Have you ever heard of a library? They give you a book, CD, DVD, newspaper whatever type of media you want and all you have to do is return it when they say. Now the time I have it in my possession I can do whatever I want with it. If I destroy the item I pay for it. If I want to copy a book via writing it out or photocopy then I can, and that goes for the DVD’s and CD's or audio books. Here is the thing, if I paint an exact copy of the Mona Lisa and say that I came up with it when I sell it... well that is wrong and that’s why there are copyright laws. However If I give it to someone then there is nothing wrong. Cause if everyone is so worried about stealing and losing money then let’s all just close every library in the world. After all they are sharing copyrighted material.

[bart87]

Ahhh this is why I wont be going back to any grooby websites you will NEVER ever get rid Piracy your fighting a lost cause you take down one website how many others go up b4 the day is over

[SammiValentine]

I just cant believe how dumb people are. Have you ever heard of a library? They give you a book, CD, DVD, newspaper whatever type of media you want and all you have to do is return it when they say. Now the time I have it in my possession I can do whatever I want with it. If I destroy the item I pay for it. If I want to copy a book via writing it out or photocopy then I can, and that goes for the DVD’s and CD's or audio books. Here is the thing, if I paint an exact copy of the Mona Lisa and say that I came up with it when I sell it... well that is wrong and that’s why there are copyright laws. However If I give it to someone then there is nothing wrong. Cause if everyone is so worried about stealing and losing money then let’s all just close every library in the world. After all they are sharing copyrighted material.

I think you just solved the internets. That is astounding 10/10.

[Bobzz]

I just cant believe how dumb people are. Have you ever heard of a library? They give you a book, CD, DVD, newspaper whatever type of media you want and all you have to do is return it when they say. Now the time I have it in my possession I can do whatever I want with it. If I destroy the item I pay for it. If I want to copy a book via writing it out or photocopy then I can, and that goes for the DVD’s and CD's or audio books. Here is the thing, if I paint an exact copy of the Mona Lisa and say that I came up with it when I sell it... well that is wrong and that’s why there are copyright laws. However If I give it to someone then there is nothing wrong. Cause if everyone is so worried about stealing and losing money then let’s all just close every library in the world. After all they are sharing copyrighted material.

I just cant believe how dumb people are. I would agree with you, but it's because most people don't understand the law, not because they're bad people.

Have you ever heard of a library? They give you a book, CD, DVD, newspaper whatever type of media you want and all you have to do is return it when they say. No, they simply loan you a book for a limited period of time for you to read.

Now the time I have it in my possession I can do whatever I want with it. Where the fuck did you get that idea?

If I destroy the item I pay for it. So far I'm with you.

If I want to copy a book via writing it out or photocopy then I can, and that goes for the DVD’s and CD's or audio books. No, you can't. That's called infringement. Seriously, trust me on this. That's why DVD's CD's and audio books have anti-copying mechanisms incorporated into them. And it's one of the reasons that print media is dying on the vine.

Here is the thing, if I paint an exact copy of the Mona Lisa and say that I came up with it when I sell it... well that is wrong and that’s why there are copyright laws. Well you're not exactly right here. The copyright on the Mona Lisa is long expired, you can make whatever copy of it that you desire. And you can even say it's an original to you, but you can't say it's the original or that it's a Leonardo da Vinci. That would be wrong because, among other things it's a lie.

However If I give it to someone then there is nothing wrong. Oh yes there is, if you give someone a copy of a book or a CD or DVD that you copied, there is something wrong with that. Basically, you've deprived the author, performer or studio of revenue based on a lost sale of the work. On the other hand, if you gave someone the original of one you actually bought and didn't retain a copy, it'd be ok.

Cause if everyone is so worried about stealing and losing money then let’s all just close every library in the world. After all they are sharing copyrighted material. Here's where your logic falls apart. A library actually BUYS books for lending (not copying), NetFlix does the same thing, they charge you for renting a movie to view (not to copy); Yes, you are correct, libraries (and rental places) do share copyrighted materials but for the limited purpose of the borrower reading or viewing it and returning it to the library. Do you think if rented a car you could strip it and sell it for parts or simply resell it? I mean, after all, the rental companies are just sharing cars, so let's just close every car dealership .

I get your frustration but you're misinformed about the law.

[timxxx]

you will NEVER ever get rid Piracy your fighting a lost cause you take down one website how many others go up b4 the day is over
I don't think Grooby(unlike Time Warner & Motion Picture Association of America, etc) are trying to get rid piracy,they and their lawyers are just trying to shakedown a few Joe Blows,who would rather pay up than have their names publicly associated with 'deviant' tranny porn.

If you are the kind of person who won't submit to legal blackmail or you just don't give a fuck about being 'tarnished' with the stigma of wacking off to sicko tranny porn.You would probably not end up in court or paying them anything.

[GroobySteven]

I just cant believe how dumb people are. Have you ever heard of a library? They give you a book, CD, DVD, newspaper whatever type of media you want and all you have to do is return it when they say. Now the time I have it in my possession I can do whatever I want with it. If I destroy the item I pay for it. If I want to copy a book via writing it out or photocopy then I can, and that goes for the DVD’s and CD's or audio books. Here is the thing, if I paint an exact copy of the Mona Lisa and say that I came up with it when I sell it... well that is wrong and that’s why there are copyright laws. However If I give it to someone then there is nothing wrong. Cause if everyone is so worried about stealing and losing money then let’s all just close every library in the world. After all they are sharing copyrighted material.

Intellect of the Year!

[GroobySteven]

Ahhh this is why I wont be going back to any grooby websites you will NEVER ever get rid Piracy your fighting a lost cause you take down one website how many others go up b4 the day is over

Hmmm ... if it's a lost cause then how come we're WINNING! ?
You've not idea how many sites we've taken down ... but don't let your idiotic posting stop you from taking a stand ... go back to other sites, not grooby websites.

[GroobySteven]

I don't think Grooby(unlike Time Warner & Motion Picture Association of America, etc) are trying to get rid piracy,they and their lawyers are just trying to shakedown a few Joe Blows,who would rather pay up than have their names publicly associated with 'deviant' tranny porn.

If you are the kind of person who won't submit to legal blackmail or you just don't give a fuck about being 'tarnished' with the stigma of wacking off to sicko tranny porn.You would probably not end up in court or paying them anything.

Oh no, we'd LOVE to get rid of piracy. In the few days the file lockers have been down we've seen traffic rise and since we've started a very aggressive approach against piracy, DMCA'ing over 30,000 links a month and making it as difficult as possible for people to find our content, sales have held as well as we could expect.

The end-user litigation we've brought against people is just part of our legal action - we've served papers on a number of US individuals directly whom we have overwhelming evidence of sharing our files and if they don't appear in court, they will have the judgement ruled against them automatically (watch this space).

As I stated though, we'd love to get rid of piracy so we could concentrate on what we like doing best which is producing and marketing TS porn and all that goes with it.

[bart87]

Hmmm ... if it's a lost cause then how come we're WINNING! ?
You've not idea how many sites we've taken down ... but don't let your idiotic posting stop you from taking a stand ... go back to other sites, not grooby websites.

Hmmmm isn't ashemaletube spankwire xvideos and shit load of forums still up were you can go watch and download shit yea really winning and just cause you take down one site or a few sites like I said how many go up when you take those down ?? You can't answer that can you but keep fighting your lil fight against free speech and freedom cause it's going nowhere

[GroobySteven]

Hmmmm isn't ashemaletube spankwire xvideos and shit load of forums still up were you can go watch and download shit yea really winning and just cause you take down one site or a few sites like I said how many go up when you take those down ?? You can't answer that can you but keep fighting your lil fight against free speech and freedom cause it's going nowhere

How much of our content do you see on those tube sites you mentioned?
I'm all for free speech and freedom, so don't be a douche trying to bring that in. Theft has nothing to do with limiting free speech.
What's your address? I want to use my freedom of speech to come around and steal your property.

[bart87]

How much of our content do you see on those tube sites you mentioned?
I'm all for free speech and freedom, so don't be a douche trying to bring that in. Theft has nothing to do with limiting free speech.
What's your address? I want to use my freedom of speech to come around and steal your property.

Hmmmm ALOT you also gotta ask your self when someone puts a video of your stuff up on those tube sites how many people download it and put it on forums or share it with there friends b4 you have those tube sites take it down ???

And yea you really can't answer how many sites go up when you take down a few of those site there already is another site like megavideo and oh okay your for freedom and free speech your just not for internet freedom I get it.

And no you can't come steal my shit cause I never stole any of your videos or pics I downloaded them all when I WAS a member of your site.

[Jericho]

When those who champion failed paradigms lose their dominance, they always resort to force instead of new thinking. In this case, it's legal force, but it's force nonetheless.

I like that, who wrote it?
Kinda like saying using a 20th century solution to a 21st century problem.

[MacShreach]

Can you do both?

Yes of course. It would certainly be better to try to come up with new business models that provide revenue than to rely solely on litigion. I think sites that make money selling stolen stuff should be taken down and the owners prosecuted, and I'm never going to argue against that. What I fear is that the sheer scale of the issue, in terms of the numbers of people who download copyrighted material for their own use, will mean that again and again we'll see the mushroom effect, that the more sites are taken down, the more will spring up, and as I said before, people will end up paying fortunes to lawyers to play whack-a-mole. The obvious comparisons are with the drug trade and prostitution; in both cases huge amounts of money are invested in criminalising both the purveyors and the users, to very little effect.

Basically, copyright is a print-era way of thinking. In the internet era, people are growing used to getting content for free. Quite often, as in the case of the web browser I'm using, this is quite legal and the intended use of the designers of the software. But the culture of free access is promoted on the back of that, and it is not a tide that can be turned back.

I don't know what the solution is, or are, since there will have to be many. But the quicker we start coming up with them the better.:shrug

[bart87]

You know what this is gonna sound crazy as hell but maby just maby if you didn't give people the option to download videos off of your site they wouldn't turn up on tube sites or forums

[MacShreach]

Umm so what would he be selling, exactly? A watchable stream can be saved to the local computer and subsequently redistributed. This may take a little bit of know-how when protection is in place to stop that, but it can always be done.

[MacShreach]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16658923

I'm not sure this thread--since it deals specifically with Grooby's actions--is the best place for this, but WTF. This article carries a lot of sense.

[GroobySteven]

You know what this is gonna sound crazy as hell but maby just maby if you didn't give people the option to download videos off of your site they wouldn't turn up on tube sites or forums

Why shouldn't members be able to download and enjoy the content? In principle I'd support a DRM system where only the downloader could watch the content and it would be impossible to share but there isn't a good system that fits the bill right now.

[Nicole Dupre]

That people were ever allowed to download content just because they had a subscription was always ridiculous. You should've never had that option to begin with. You should be logged on with your membership every time you get to see the content. Period. Wanna see it again a month from now? Stay subscribed or rejoin. But it's a bit to late to adopt that mentality now, after years of everyone handing over their site's content on a silver platter for a measly $30.

[BellaBellucci]

I like that, who wrote it?
Kinda like saying using a 20th century solution to a 21st century problem.

Actually, I wrote it, so thank you. :)

~BB~

[ghbryans1]

Can you do both?
Probably... ;-) But generally speaking, but it might a bad idea from a PR standpoint to sue the fans, whether they're ripping you off or not. You'll see it as defending your rights, many will attribute it to greed and feel even less inclined to pay you money.

The entire entertainment industry is struggling with this, but I think the sheer number of users on the Internet can support much lower prices and a per video format. Google and the iTunes store have made billions with that model. Why don't you try it with one site or one video on a site and see how it works out? You might even try a percentage of sales deal with the models.

I truly believe there is a sweet spot where the majority of users will say "Well, I really want to see this and it's only $2 so I'll buy it rather than waste my time looking for it elsewhere." But it has to be quality, and it has to be the right price. Sadly, I have no idea what the actual price would be. I also think the per video model will give you much better idea of what's selling and where to put your money.

But I'm no expert. These are just thoughts.

[bobhutt46]

I
I get your frustration but you're misinformed about the law.

So religion states that having sex with another man is wrong. Does that stop you (or me) from doing so. After all fucking someone with a dick is againts any religion. Does that stop anyone from doing so. Religion and laws are created by man. Are they right or wrong? It doesnt matter. Do as you want and you shall be free.

[GroobySteven]

So religion states that having sex with another man is wrong. Does that stop you (or me) from doing so. After all fucking someone with a dick is againts any religion. Does that stop anyone from doing so. Religion and laws are created by man. Are they right or wrong? It doesnt matter. Do as you want and you shall be free.

Wow ... what another intelligent and well thought out argument. So anybody can do as they want?
Brilliant.

You are either an idiot savant or just an idiot.

[bobhutt46]

Wow ... what another intelligent and well thought out argument. So anybody can do as they want?
Brilliant.

You are either an idiot savant or just an idiot.

Name calling is just the result of a feeble intellect.

[GroobySteven]

Name calling is just the result of a feeble intellect.

At least you have managed to post a rational point. Well done, give yourself credit. What's your excuse for the other rubbish you've posted?

[BeardedOne]

Years ago, when I was in the travelling book business (You didn't know they had legs, did you? Just like clams.), we had a mantra:

People are stupid.
They will buy anything for a buck.
Buy now, buy low, buy lots.

As crass as it sounds, this formula worked rather well, not just in books, but in other commodities as well.

I've been guilty of file sharing, as have we all (The ones that say they haven't will lie about masturbation, too). I've seen the error of my ways, reformed, and moved on. I've also suffered the effects of it as I have a hand in a dotcom that has its fingers in the VOD download model. As 'free' interweb video viewing became prevalent, our revenues slid downward.

We don't have all that much to lose as most of the content we pimp is previous or existing product that was legally licensed for the VOD model. Still, we feel the pinch. The same cannot be said of the producers/providers/talent of that content.

Then come the creators. I attended a talk by Cory Doctorow, a science fiction author/editor that is very in tune to what is happening on the interwebs as far as content and legal/illegal sharing is involved. While he is certainly concerned as to the whereabouts and distribution of his own intellectual property, he is also concerned about the various shotgun responses and bows-and-arrows-against-the-lightning (Reference: Jeff Wayne's "War Of The Worlds") defenses that are waged in the anti-piracy fight. Doctorow's adamant opposition against SOPA/PIPA and his detailed reasons for it, show that there is still a great deal of work to be done to develop a fair balance for both producer and consumer.

"Free. That's the best price." - Gary Cogdell, musician, producer and potential victim of bootlegging/piracy.

When does it become 'right'?

Best answer: It doesn't, and laws and regulations make it impossible as an option. In real life, however, the threat remains and is epidemic. The best that we can hope for is that our respective creation, be it written, acoustic, visual, or whatever is so unique, so original, so high quality that we can depend on a certain number of people to support us in all of our endeavors to the point that we can profit, or at the very least, be fulfilled.

[TSPornFan]

That people were ever allowed to download content just because they had a subscription was always ridiculous. You should've never had that option to begin with. You should be logged on with your membership every time you get to see the content. Period. Wanna see it again a month from now? Stay subscribed or rejoin. But it's a bit to late to adopt that mentality now, after years of everyone handing over their site's content on a silver platter for a measly $30.

People should have the option to download content. When you buy a DVD, you own it. You can watch it as much as you want in private without always buying the same movie to view over and over again. No is going to rejoin a site to watch one video again. One video is NOT worth $30 to view every few months when you are in the mood to watch it.

[timxxx]

l wish porn producers would concentrate on finding ways to make buying porn easy & affordable like itunes.
I could pirate songs almost as easily as buying them from itunes but l still choose to buy 'most' of my tracks from itunes.Why ? Because the price is reasonable and the purchasing mechanism is easy.And I don't have to buy an whole CD,just the songs l want.
An itunes type Grooby site would be great,where you could buy a single scene for £5.99 & £1.99 for the photo set.I'm sure there's plenty of good reasons way it's not possible to do.But that would be great.

[Tobe]

l wish porn producers would concentrate on finding ways to make buying porn easy & affordable like itunes.
I could pirate songs almost as easily as buying them from itunes but l still choose to buy 'most' of my tracks from itunes.Why ? Because the price is reasonable and the purchasing mechanism is easy.And I don't have to buy an whole CD,just the songs l want.
An itunes type Grooby site would be great,where you could buy a single scene for £5.99 & £1.99 for the photo set.I'm sure there's plenty of good reasons way it's not possible to do.But that would be great.

You have a good point... in effect, in these cases, the competition is a free pirated version. The music industry had to deal with this and Apple came out with a great idea:
* Make the service convenient and inexpensive enough that it is worth more to the average consumer than the less convenient but free pirated version.

I suspect that requiring a monthly price of $36 really limits impulse purchases; and with what is available online, people can always find alternatives.

I agree that it is someone's right to protect their copyright via legal means, but I do not necessarily agree that it is a wise route. It is potentially costly and may alienate users. Business models need to evolve to change with the times; but eventually, the market is the final arbiter (those companies with good model/products survive and those with poor ones fail).

[centipete]

No is going to rejoin a site to watch one video again. One video is NOT worth $30 to view every few months when you are in the mood to watch it.

...especially if it's a crappy low-res streaming quality.

[centipete]

An itunes type Grooby site would be great,where you could buy a single scene for £5.99 & £1.99 for the photo set.I'm sure there's plenty of good reasons way it's not possible to do.But that would be great.

Nice idea. I think a generic iPorn site - one featuring content from other producers as well as Grooby - might be an even better system.

[GroobySteven]

l wish porn producers would concentrate on finding ways to make buying porn easy & affordable like itunes.
I could pirate songs almost as easily as buying them from itunes but l still choose to buy 'most' of my tracks from itunes.Why ? Because the price is reasonable and the purchasing mechanism is easy.And I don't have to buy an whole CD,just the songs l want.
An itunes type Grooby site would be great,where you could buy a single scene for £5.99 & £1.99 for the photo set.I'm sure there's plenty of good reasons way it's not possible to do.But that would be great.

That's EXACTLY how it should be done Tim and I know two or three companies (mainly billing companies) who have been working on this, for far too long without any light.
We have our VOD system in which you can buy tokens at :
http://www.buddywood.com/vod/ for example and then spend them at our other VOD sites like http://www.pkvegasvod.com etc.

People don't like the idea of having to outlay for tokens all at one time - and in the current billing systems, we're not allowed to charge your card unless you enter all the information again (I'm going to reinvestigate this though) which seems to be the big sticking point on why we can't build a model that looks like Itunes but charge in micro-payments of $1.99-$4.99

Your message has reminded me to once again prompt companies we work with to see how they are doing with this as I think it's the ideal way forward.

[Paladin]

I just cant believe how dumb people are. Have you ever heard of a library? They give you a book, CD, DVD, newspaper whatever type of media you want and all you have to do is return it when they say. Now the time I have it in my possession I can do whatever I want with it. If I destroy the item I pay for it. If I want to copy a book via writing it out or photocopy then I can, and that goes for the DVD’s and CD's or audio books. Here is the thing, if I paint an exact copy of the Mona Lisa and say that I came up with it when I sell it... well that is wrong and that’s why there are copyright laws. However If I give it to someone then there is nothing wrong. Cause if everyone is so worried about stealing and losing money then let’s all just close every library in the world. After all they are sharing copyrighted material.

That's all well and good, except for the fact that most of the activities you describe are specific violations of copyright law no matter how you obtained the source item.

[Paladin]

Not specific to grooby, but megaupload.com.'s been raided, and it's all over the press. the owner is in a NZ jail. they are charged with distributing movies, music and "other copyrighted content", aka porn!

and BTW itunes sucks. Can't even move something to a different computer you own or to something you can use in your car, like a CD.

[Stavros]

O2 is the latest company to be forced to reveal the identity of broadband customers accessing porn they haven't paid for:

O2 forced to expose 'porn downloaders'

Thousands of O2 broadband customers will have their personal details handed to a pornographer who claims they unlawfully downloaded his films.


O2 will be forced to share some of its customers' identities








By Christopher Williams, Technology Correspondent

7:00AM BST 27 Mar 2012




The High Court ordered O2 to hand over the personal details of more than 9,000 O2 broadband subscribers to Golden Eye International and the pornography firm Ben Dover Productions.

Ben Dover is a pseudonym of Lindsay Honey, a British performer, director and producer of pornography, who set up Golden Eye International in 2009.

The judge however said his intention to demand £700 from each of the O2 customers he accuses of unlawful filesharing was “unsupportable”.

The judge also said the letter Golden Eye International intended to send (http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2012/723.html) demanding payment was “capable of causing unnecessary distress because it could be read as an implicit threat of publicity once proceedings have been commenced”. It intended to threaten those who did not pay the damages with court action.

O2 had fought the bid to access its customers' details, which Golden Eye international made with a total of 13 pornography firms.



The court rejected 12 of the applications but found in favour Ben Dover Productions, saying that “the claimants' interests in enforcing their copyrights outweigh the intended defendants' interest in protecting their privacy and data protection rights”.
O2 will now be forced to match 9,124 IP addresses that have been observed infringing Ben Dover Productions' copyright with its customer database and hand over personal details. A spokesman for telecoms firm said: “Clearly we respect the court order and will therefore be co-operating fully.”
The judge rejected the other applications for O2 customers’ personal details because Golden Eye International would pursue alleged unlawful downloaders on its own and take 75 per cent of any damages paid.
“That would be tantamount to the court sanctioning the sale of the intended defendants' privacy and data protection rights to the highest bidder,” said Mr Justice Arnold.
Ben Dover Productions will meanwhile jointly pursue its copyright infringement claims with Golden Eye International .
Consumer Focus, which was allowed to intervene in the case on behalf of the O2 customers, said that although personal details will be released it had set an “important precedent” to protect internet users from so-called speculative invoicing by putting a greater burden of proof on the claimant.
“This case sets an important precedent for the rights of consumers, particularly those who are innocent, and the responsibilities of companies seeking redress on behalf of copyright owners,” said chief executive Mike O’Connor.
“It is very welcome that the court has recognised the bill-payer should not be automatically assumed to be guilty when a copyright owner believes they have detected copyright infringement on that internet connection.”
The issue of speculative invoicing by copyright holders came to the fore because of the activities of ACS:Law, a London firm of solicitors that sent out thousands of letters demanding payment from alleged unlawful filesharers, having done deals with film and video games copyright holders.
In January, the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal found the firm’s founder Andrew Crossley guilty of guilty on seven charges of unbefitting a solicitor, suspended him for two years and ordered him to pay more than £76,000 in costs. ACS:Law had already ceased trading following an attack on its systems by hackers operating under the Anonymous banner, who published its internal emails online. Andrew Crossley also told a court he had received death threats and bomb threats


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/broadband/9168016/O2-forced-to-expose-porn-downloaders.html

[Jericho]

Nice idea. I think a generic iPorn site - one featuring content from other producers as well as Grooby - might be an even better system.

xhamsters next move, maybe?

[juggernaut77]

me-> i'm just a man who likes shemale porn. If someone puts it out there, then i will download it - if i turns me on. If i like the pornstar/model i will visit there site (might join) or view galleries that they are in. Facebook don't charge - but last i heard zuckerberg has a bit of coin. Maybe those websites can put banners, etc to increase income, such as this website. Maybe i'm over my head and wrong, but if it wasn't for porn there would be no internet. Am i right, probably not.

[RallyCola]

me-> i'm just a man who likes shemale porn. If someone puts it out there, then i will download it - if i turns me on. If i like the pornstar/model i will visit there site (might join) or view galleries that they are in. Facebook don't charge - but last i heard zuckerberg has a bit of coin. Maybe those websites can put banners, etc to increase income, such as this website. Maybe i'm over my head and wrong, but if it wasn't for porn there would be no internet. Am i right, probably not.

#1. this site uses banners from PAY PORN sites.
#2. porn, in general, but also niche sites, would have to find advertising dollars from a very small pool because I don't see Dr. Pepper or Sears lining up to advertise on a porn site.

It's ridiculous to think that advertising dollars can replace some sort of membership or VOD system.

[SammiValentine]

me-> i'm just a man who likes shemale porn. If someone puts it out there, then i will download it - if i turns me on. If i like the pornstar/model i will visit there site (might join) or view galleries that they are in. Facebook don't charge - but last i heard zuckerberg has a bit of coin. Maybe those websites can put banners, etc to increase income, such as this website. Maybe i'm over my head and wrong, but if it wasn't for porn there would be no internet. Am i right, probably not.

Facebook is not a relative comparable in the whole porn/piracy debate.