Do any of you guys ever feel guilty for the way you objectify transgendered women?

[giovanni_hotel]

I fear you're quickly swimming out of your depth, tglover. Nicole hangs out at the deep end of the pool where most fools around here drown.

Actually I don't think you're a confrontational person by nature, but you came over to HA and started kicking hornet's nests.

A word to the wise....

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o299/djactionpat/NewHornetsNest.jpg

[www.tglovers.com]

Gee, you’re obviously far too clever for me. But then again I forgot you are (in your own words) an “intelligent, self made, independent, successful and might I add stunning....transsexual.” lol
Thank you!

[www.tglovers.com]

I fear you're quickly swimming out of your depth, tglover. Nicole hangs out at the deep end of the pool where most fools around here drown.

Actually I don't think you're a confrontational person by nature, but you came over to HA and started kicking hornet's nests.

A word to the wise....

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o299/djactionpat/NewHornetsNest.jpg

I asked a question. The question was actually asked of men. So why she felt compelled to throw her two cents in...is beyond me.

This what she said about my question that set everything off:

What I think is most bizarre of all is non-sexworker trannys coming here and acting like they want to save the sexworker trannys.

Btw, anyone here find this to be hypocritical? I mean, God forbid Peggy actually backs up anything she says. lol It sounds so right on, until you realize it's all surface talk. :footinmouth

http://www.hungangels.com/board/view...r=asc&start=50 (http://www.hungangels.com/vboard/../board/viewtopic.php?t=25080&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=50)

But see, this is the problem. This is not where you come to burn your bra and draw lines in the sand. This forum is about trannys agreeing to give men what they WANT. I am not the girl next door. I'm a promiscuous hussy who wants to get her brains fucked out. Save that altruistic bullshit for somewhere else.

God, I hate this pretentious women's lib crusader crap. "Oh, boohoo. I'm a woman, but now I don't like men treating me the way they would treat any other woman. Boo hoo."

Now if you read my original question I made no mention of prostitution or sex-workers.....she introduced that element into the conversation. I asked about the objectification of tg women.

[traLika]

Thank you!


It wasn't meant as a compliment. :)

[www.tglovers.com]

It wasn't meant as a compliment. :)
Didn't stop me from taking it as one.

[Nicole Dupre]

And here's my original response to you, moron. There was nothing typed that any sane adult couldn't wrap their brain around. You took offense. You called me "sad", and concocted this BS about what I earn, what it means to own nice things, what my family thinks of me, what they do for a living, etc. Your choice. But it backfired, and I spooked you over your sugar daddy and lack of education.


Of course they objectify us. We're inviting them to. What sane adult can't figure out where fantasy ends and where reality begins? Compartmentalization is your friend, people. lol

What I think is most bizarre of all is non-sexworker trannys coming here and acting like they want to save the sexworker trannys.

[Nicole Dupre]

Stupid, that post shifted gears and was directed at people like Peggy. I even put a link to her quote.

You just took it to heart because it struck multiple chords, and then you went ballistic. Well, fuck you. I got you to empty your stomach of all it's poison and resentment, found out that you have a sugar daddy, found out that you resent escorts and tricks, found out that you resent porn, and now you look the FOOL.

Girl, I read tea leaves. Add your tea to the long list. lol

[www.tglovers.com]

And here's my original response to you, moron. There was nothing typed that any sane adult couldn't wrap their brain around. You took offense. You called me "sad", and concocted this BS about what I earn, what it means to own nice things, what my family thinks of me, what they do for a living, etc. Your choice. But it backfired, and I spooked you over your sugar daddy and lack of education.

The only thing "Spooky" is your tatted-up torso. That's spooky. You don't even know me. This is an online persona for me. When I'm bored at work...I now have someone to come and break the monotony of my day. I don't have a dildo to keep me company. I like real men not ones that have to be held in a closed fist.

You say I have a sugar daddy....I say fine...I have a sugar daddy. I'm not insulted by that. You say I'm uneducated....I know its not the truth but if it makes you feel better to believe that...go right ahead.

It doesn't change the fact that you think sleeping with men for designer bags is what's hot in the streets. Education or not....I know better than to waste money on designer bags. I have a boutique and I could get them wholesale if I wanted to.

You enjoy selling yourself. So do that.

By the way, I am at work in my fictional boutique would you like a peek inside?

[www.tglovers.com]

Stupid, that post shifted gears and was directed at people like Peggy. I even put a link to her quote.

You just took it to heart because it struck multiple chords, and then you went ballistic. Well, fuck you. I got you to empty your stomach of all it's poison and resentment, found out that you have a sugar daddy, found out that you resent escorts and tricks, found out that you resent porn, and now you look the FOOL.

Girl, I read tea leaves. Add your tea to the long list. lol

You know about as much as I want you to think you know.

Now I have t get back to work.

[Nicole Dupre]

Another loser, other than Miss Talking Tits, "Peggy", said this...


Gentlemen, I'm petty much done on this note.

I can understand that you don't have the courage of
your convictions. That you don't have the testicular or
intestinal fortitude to be the person that you desire. That
you aren't able to lead truthful lives like the women on
this forum, at the parties that you will not be photographed
with, or in society.

I know that you are afraid that society will discriminate
against you, persecute you, perhaps do you bodily harm
like you have seen them do to transwomen.

I know that you are afraid that your families may disown
you, I know you are afraid that you feel the people that
you think are your friends will abandon you.

Bottom line, I know that you are afraid, I once was afraid
like you. Thus with your fears I can empathize, your fears
I can accept.

But do not lie to these women, do not lie to yourselves, and
say that you see these women just like you see any other
women.

You are insulting our intelligence, and seriously straining
whatever credibility you might have.

I can understand, and accept your being afraid, but I
can not accept being lied to.


ALL of you non sex worker bitches need to step the fuck off of this forum if you want to moralize against the girls whom this forum celebrates. Fuck you crusty losers. Go back to your sugar daddy's boutiques and your Black Panther meetings.

[traLika]

I have a sugar daddy.


Wait a minute... you have a sugar daddy and you're lecturing us?

[Nicole Dupre]

Girl, I couldn't give a flying fuck about your boutique job. That's your sugar daddy's leash on you; not on me.

And how do you rationalize having "several cars" but thinking you're too smart to buy a designer bag? Wait. Was that your "online persona" talking, or was it really you? ;)


It doesn't change the fact that you think sleeping with men for designer bags is what's hot in the streets. Education or not....I know better than to waste money on designer bags. I have a boutique and I could get them wholesale if I wanted to.

[BellaBellucci]

As I stated earlier....I don't have a problem with sexuality, prostitution or porn. I asked for balanced. Its like I have to be at either end of the spectrum. Sexy and Intelligent cannot coexist?

They can, but here it's a very, very tough sell. Most (but certainly not all) of the guys here want their girls to be sexy or smart (more often sexy), and many girls get upset when you offer both because most of them only want to show one or the other for that reason. They more or less become what the market here expects them to be.

My suggestion to you is to hone your message to be more specific. A lot of people around here pounce on inaccuracy. If you don't spell something out for them, they assume the worst and internalize it and then they attack you as a person when you only want to discuss ideals because, let's face it, you're questioning their entire existence here and so they go nuclear to protect it.

Look back through this thread. There are plenty of guys here who see transwomen, even those with more to offer, as only as sex objects, and don't even regret it. It's hard to convert the apathetic: they're lost.

Some also love to accuse people of hypocrisy for using sex to make a point because, apparently, it's only supposed to be good for making money and we're just supposed to believe that men would pay attention to us if they didn't find us sexually appealing. Please. If all transsexuals were ugly, nobody would care about us at all, now would they?

And that's a huge part of the problem: the only positive feedback that many transwomen receive is from guys who just want to have sex with them. That may sound sad, but without an alternative, many, many girls will defend that status quo, so there's plenty of blame all the way around.

Plus, I don't think this is a porn forum. I think it's a transsexual forum that sells porn. I think if girls want to present themselves with self respect here, then that should be acceptable, but if there's any place where it should also be OK for one to temporarily objectify themself through their own choosing, there's no better place to do it than here and that needs to be respected too as long as it's their choice and they retain at least a modicum of self-respect.

Welcome to HA.

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

This thread has clearly gone in a different direction. What was intended to be an adult conversation about objectification, has turned into a cluster-fuck.

Did I mention 'welcome to HA?' :lol: :lol: :lol:

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

I want real relationship. Gifts or no gifts.

Guys here say they want that all the time. Here you are finally offering what they want (and something very rare) - a relationship not dependent on financial means with a girl who isn't a sex worker and has great breasts, and this is how they treat you? I guess that answers the question about why it's so hard for a transsexuals to have healthy relationships: men. They cry about being taken to the cleaners by women who don't love them and wonder why it keeps happening to them. :geek:

Seriously, I really, really do love this place! :lol:

~BB~

PS: I don't intend any offense to any guys who got screwed in a divorce. I've actually been there and feel your pain, but you also have to know that some guys do probably deserve it.

[Jericho]

and this is how they treat you?

Whoa, back that horse up a bit.
Usual shite, it's all the guys fault. :shrug

[lonemastrb8tr]

no i don't. I only objectify them through picture. I never met one in real life.

[BellaBellucci]

Whoa, back that horse up a bit.
Usual shite, it's all the guys fault. :shrug

Well, no, not all guys. I guess I'm just frustrated at the lack of defense tglovers is receiving, whether she's right or wrong, the guys she said she's looking for here (i.e. guys who want relationships) are too scared to speak up. That's sort of the problem around here. There are two factions: those who objectify and those who don't. Those who don't, unfortunately, seem too wimpy to defend themselves, let alone anyone else. This isn't just a simple 'guys vs. girls' thing for me. But that said, why are bottoms such girls?! :lol:


no i don't. I only objectify them through picture. I never met one in real life.

Thank you. That's how I think most girls would like it. I mean, really, can't we all move on now? We have our answer.

~BB~

[rockabilly]

What was the question again?

[Jericho]

Well, no, not all guys. I guess I'm just frustrated at the lack of defense tglovers is receiving, whether she's right or wrong, the guys she said she's looking for here (i.e. guys who want relationships) are too scared to speak up. That's sort of the problem around here. There are two factions: those who objectify and those who don't. Those who don't, unfortunately, seem too wimpy do defend themselves, let alone anyone else.

My first thought is, "Why should anyone defend her"?
It's got bugger all to do with two factions, those who objectify or otherwise.
It's about her opening op where she pissed on every single guy here!

She didn't come here for a discussion, she came to state her point of view...And if you don't agree with her, you're an objectifying, misogynistic pig.

Well no matter how badly you treat some of the guys on this board, they'll still stand up for a girl...Just give 'em chance to find a towel and wipe the piss of their faces first!

[traLika]

This thread has clearly gone in a different direction. What was intended to be an adult conversation about objectification, has turned into a cluster-fuck.



Adult conversation is supposed to involve listening to other peoples' ideas, even though you don't have to agree with them. Right from the start you weren't doing that: anybody who disagreed with your views was either ignored or patronized.

I'm glad it got out of your control. That was actually inevitable. Threads are for discussing, NOT controlling!

Vive la clusterfuck! :)

[BellaBellucci]

My first thought is, "Why should anyone defend her"?
It's got bugger all to do with two factions, those who objectify or otherwise.
It's about her opening op where she pissed on every single guy here!

She didn't come here for a discussion, she came to state her point of view...And if you don't agree with her, you're an objectifying, misogynistic pig.

Well no matter how badly you treat some of the guys on this board, they'll still stand up for a girl...Just give 'em chance to find a towel and wipe the piss of their faces first!

Also a valid point. But don't shoot down the messenger just because of the message. It's a tough one to deliver around here, and frankly, there's nobody who knows that better than me, with the probable exception of Peggy. When I tried to make this point way back when, I tried to ease into it slowly, but it just wasn't possible. There's just waaaay too much insecurity around here, and frankly, it makes it hard to talk about a lot of important issues that need to be discussed.

Like I said, I personally don't view this as a porn board, but even if it was, what's wrong with having these discussions here? As another poster pointed out, this is the largest TS board on the internet, so where else would we want to have them?

Well, except maybe in the Ladies' Room forum that nobody uses. :lol:

~BB~

[bte]

28 pages and I still don't know how I objectify transgendered women? Is it by posting pictures that they modeled for? Is it by watching a porn movie where they starred in?

[rockabilly]

There's more to women (gg or tg) than just sexual gratification.
I'm not against porn or escorting , I enjoy porn ... alot. But i also like having conversations w/ girls here that don't involve the "business" , this forum can cater to the needs of all those that post here.

[Jericho]

But don't shoot down the messenger just because of the message. It's a tough one to deliver around here

Ever thought, "Hey, maybe this is the wrong message"?
Just a thought




Well, except maybe in the Ladies' Room forum that nobody uses. :lol:


I'll refrain from pointing out the irony of that.
That would be slightly misogynistic of me! :lol:

[BellaBellucci]

Ever thought, "Hey, maybe this is the wrong message"?
Just a thought

But how does one determine if they're delivering the wrong message? When they encounter opposition to it? There was plenty of opposition to desegregation in the 60's. Sometimes it's the message. Sometimes the opposition is wrong. Sometimes people are just stubborn. And sometimes, as in this case, the answer probably lies somewhere in the middle of two polar opposite opinions.

By the way, have you checked out Total-TG 2.0 (http://total-tg.com) yet? It's a forum where we encourage both nudity and discussion. ;)

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

No guy getting prejudged is going to take this dumb bitch seriously. She's contradicted herself about a half dozen times, and sits in front of a cam with her head cut out, dressed like she's been watching television or doing laundry.

Plus, she's already tipped her hand as an uneducated sugar baby. Which, in and of itself is no biggie, but how dare she come here and act snooty about porn and escorting? lol

She can hate on me all she likes. It wasn't my choice to make it personal.

[BellaBellucci]

No guy getting prejudged is going to take this dumb bitch seriously. She's contradicted herself about a half dozen times, and sits in front of a cam with her head cut out, dressed like she's been watching television or doing laundry.

Plus, she's already tipped her hand as an uneducated sugar baby. Which, in and of itself is no biggie, but how dare she come here and act snooty about porn and escorting? lol

She can hate on me all she likes. It wasn't my choice to make it personal.

Nicole, for starters, you always make it personal. It's always you. All she ever wanted was what I want - respect for all transwomen despite their being sex workers and not because they are. And she's asking guys who frequently have contact with the girls they objectify, in the venue in which they have that contact, if they feel guilty about it. I think it's an honest question no matter who is asking it and even if she doesn't want her face shown. People are nasty. She's probably, and rightfully so, in fear of reprisal but feels that her ideals have enough merit to justify it.

I'm sorry, but I don't think for a minute that she came in here with the intention of putting down anybody in particular or even sex workers across the board (unless it's all they are and don't strive to be more). Her only statement that really gives me pause is the one where she claims that there's never been a civil word from any of the men here. That's fucking bullshit, yet I think it's an understandable, albeit grossly exaggerated stance given the overall lack of respect we have going on here in both directions between the guys and girls.

~BB~

[jamiecoxxdotcom]

I really wish you would stop wanting things for all transwoman. Want things for yourself, earn your own self respect, (That's why they call it self respect)
Speaking for all trans women assumes that all trans women are the same. That's just misguided... it actually works in your favor if you started thinking of people as individuals whose worth is based solely on their own merits.
No matter how good your intentions are, I'm simply not comfortable being spoken for, but fuck me - I might not be seen as being part of the community (Which is good, I'm anti community of any type) But I'm not the only person who hates being spoken for...


All she ever wanted was what I want - respect for all transwomen despite their being sex workers and not because they are.
~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

Nicole, for starters, you always make it personal. It's always you. All she ever wanted was what I want - respect for all transwomen despite their being sex workers and not because they are. And she's asking guys who frequently have contact with the girls they objectify, in the venue in which they have that contact, if they feel guilty about it. I think it's an honest question no matter who is asking it and even if she doesn't want her face shown. People are nasty. She's probably, and rightfully so, in fear of reprisal but feels that her ideals have enough merit to justify it.

I'm sorry, but I don't think for a minute that she came in here with the intention of putting down anybody in particular or even sex workers across the board (unless it's all they are and don't strive to be more). Her only statement that really gives me pause is the one where she claims that there's never been a civil word from any of the men here. That's fucking bullshit, yet I think it's an understandable, albeit grossly exaggerated stance given the overall lack of respect we have going on here in both directions between the guys and girls.

~BB~
Again, I am NOT TALKING TO YOU. Stay the fuck out of my face, you hound dog. I don't care what your loopy vision for the future of TS porn is, but I promise that I want no part of it. Get back to "welcoming" and attempting to befriend every maladjusted trans-misfit you bump into here. If and when I talk to you, it will be eye to eye.

[BellaBellucci]

Again, I am NOT TALKING TO YOU. Stay the fuck out of my face, you hound dog. I don't care what your loopy vision for the future of TS porn is, but I promise that I want no part of it. Get back to "welcoming" and attempting to befriend every maladjusted trans-misfit you bump into here. If and when I talk to you, it will be eye to eye.

'Talk.' Right. :rolleyes:

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

I really wish you would stop wanting things for all transwoman. Want things for yourself, earn your own self respect, (That's why they call it self respect)
Speaking for all trans women assumes that all trans women are the same. That's just misguided... it actually works in your favor if you started thinking of people as individuals whose worth is based solely on their own merits.
No matter how good your intentions are, I'm simply not comfortable being spoken for, but fuck me - I might not be seen as being part of the community (Which is good, I'm anti community of any type) But I'm not the only person who hates being spoken for...
Jamie, actually, you are in this community. The mythological future of porn bullshit which Bella babbles about is lofty idealism for saps. This is porn. We sell pics and vids of chicks with dicks and we provide a private service. Bella is a pariah, as is Peggy and Tika. They are all dumpy losers who can't relate to ANYTHING we're discussing, so they're bitter.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~

After a while, you feel like a stripper trying to give a lap job in front of a fat soccer mom, with all of these frumpy broads bitching on the sidelines.

Can you fucking losers start your own anti-porn TS forum and leave the rest of us the fuck alone?

[BellaBellucci]

They are all dumpy losers who can't relate to ANYTHING we're discussing, so they're bitter.

What part of 'you can be sexy and still have a brain,' do you not understand?

But you weren't talking to me. Right.

~BB~

PS: It always makes me smile when circus freaks call people 'pariahs.' Hello Ms. Pot? Hi, this is Ms. Kettle.

[Nicole Dupre]

Again, Scooby Doo-face needs my attention.

[BellaBellucci]

Again, Scooby Doo-face needs my attention.

Again. you prove that all you know how to do is call people names. A conversation that actually requires listening, analyzing, and replying is so far beyond your means that's it's just depressing to think about. If anybody needs to open her mind, it's you, so quit your bitching.

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

When guys go to Scores or Solid Gold with a wad of cash, how many of them pay to admire brains? Answer? NONE. The girls are looked at as SEX OBJECTS. THEY KNOW THIS and do it anyway.

No one expects to fuck Ann Coulter. No one expects to fuck Judge Judy. Why? They're not there to get fucked or be sex objects. Is there any mystery here? JFC

[Nicole Dupre]

Is Scooby Doo still babbling? Seriously. Somebody give that bitch a Doggy Downer and tie her hound-dog ass up in the backyard.

[BellaBellucci]

When guys go to Scores or Solid Gold with a wad of cash, how many of them pay to admire brains? Answer? NONE. The girls are looked at as SEX OBJECTS. THEY KNOW THIS and do it anyway.

No one expects to fuck Ann Coulter. No one expects to fuck Judge Judy. Why? They're not there to get fucked or be sex objects. Is there any mystery here? JFC

It's called a difference of opinion. Both are valid depending on perspective. Not everyone here wants a girlfriend and not everyone here wants a whore. For the last time, you're both right. Can we all just fucking end this now? We heard you Nicole. What else do you want? WTF?

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

Did anyone make Bella the official HA debate moderator? Is she actually trying to finalize this thread? Somebody toss her a Scooby snack with peanut butter on it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When someone wants both porn AND a GF, his name is Rockabilly. Otherwise, most guys know the drill. Porn is about convenience and guilt-free orgasms, not courting rituals. That's not opinion. That's fact.

[youshouldtrythislol]

This mess is still going? Wow. Am I the only one who thinks this trainwreck of a thread should be locked already?

And as it is painfully obvious there are people on this board that can not get along to save their lives, can't we all be adults and just not respond to those we do not like?

This thread had potential to be an interesting CIVIL conversation. I think it would have been interesting to see everyones take on this in a respectable manner, without the needless insults.

(note, I am not naming anyone in this message in particular, and it should not be taken as such)

[fred41]

This mess is still going? Wow. Am I the only one who thinks this trainwreck of a thread should be locked already?

And as it is painfully obvious there are people on this board that can not get along to save their lives, can't we all be adults and just not respond to those we do not like?

This thread had potential to be an interesting CIVIL conversation. I think it would have been interesting to see everyones take on this in a respectable manner, without the needless insults.

(note, I am not naming anyone in this message in particular, and it should not be taken as such)

You can't have a civil discussion in a thread where the OP is nothing but an insult hurled at all members of this site.

Do any of you guys ever feel guilty for the way you objectify transgendered women?

Really? This is phrased like the age old loaded question :"When did you stop beating your wife?"...it presumes guilt without any real form of debate...when one of the posters argued against it he was found guilty anyway because.."he still plays in the pen?"...lol.

This was soon followed by: I have yet to see a guy on here show any level of humanity or respect for transgendered women.

..are you kidding me...has she read a few countless threads....there are some guys who would actually be considered as going overboard or in some circles "giving up their man-card" to the extend they would defend some of the girls...all kidding aside..there is plenty of respect..not by everyone..but certainly more than a few, and definitely more than none ("I have yet...)

She could have simply asked "do you think there is too much sexual objectification without respect for transsexuals on this site?"..and left it an open topic for debate...maybe even followed it with "do you think that some transsexuals working in the sex industry create sexual objectification of all transsexuals in society?"..and left it open for debate.

...and then listen to all points of view.

[giovanni_hotel]

Thank you, Fred41.

Bella has absolute tunnel vision and tglover is clueless.

Again, why would you bring this up on a TG PORN forum??

I've seen the same type of out-of-place crapola on IR porn forums, ( do you feel you're perpetuating racial stereotypes, why do the Black men here allow themselves to be degraded as merely sex objects??etc.) Fine points, except that everyone here knew the ground rules before they signed up.

TGlovers never presented the topic in a way that encouraged discussion; she was patronizing and condescending from jump, and contradicted herself about half dozen times in this thread.

[BellaBellucci]

Bella has absolute tunnel vision

LOL! Yeah, I have tunnel vision towards the big picture. Figure that one out. :dancing:

~BB~

[traLika]

This was soon followed by: I have yet to see a guy on here show any level of humanity or respect for transgendered women.



I wouldn't bring up this one. I've already mentioned it five times and tglovers just doesn't wanna know. It's as if she never said it... :roll:

[traLika]

My first thought is, "Why should anyone defend her"?
It's got bugger all to do with two factions, those who objectify or otherwise.
It's about her opening op where she pissed on every single guy here!

She didn't come here for a discussion, she came to state her point of view...And if you don't agree with her, you're an objectifying, misogynistic pig.



Exactly. tglovers opened the thread with a post that insulted every guy on HA by implying that we're ALL objectifying, misogynistic pigs. That was a spectacularly presumptious and ignorant thing to do...

You don't insult people and then say "Discuss!"

There's no reason for anyone to defend her.

[loveburst]

Really interesting topic, like the earlier one dealing with escorting.

Was about to respond to that, since this issue is close to my heart, but I will reply now, since this is so interesting..

(I really like your approach to this thing, and it is really a good subject of conversation.)

What I think this boils down to, is how we respect eachother as beings - and also what we expect from each other as human beings.

For example, as you said about the blow up doll thing, some men seem to treat t-women like blow up dolls, that do not have an opinion about anything. Incase we see only that side, when we are looking at a situation where for example we have only 2 people with somewhat differing needs from our own, communicating - a woman who is careful about how she looks, and how good and sexy she looks, and also is willing to accept someones enjoyment of her looks while also accepting them giving a certain amount of income for that...

..and then, this man, enjoying this womans looks, and her whole body and sexyness, also respecting / joining that womans wish to have a steady income of something they enjoy doing..

..if our only perspective on this situation is, that the man is simply disregarding that womans feelings, or that there must be something wrong with it - then we can only see that what we are looking for, while disregarding the other part of the truth - which can be only known and experienced (therefor also understood) by the 2 experiencing that situation.

And if we categorize things as to, escorting being simply about lowering the status of females, then that is something we are seeing in even those cases where there is true benefit and spiritual good happening for all parties involved.

There could be also levels of benefit, from someone doing something in those categories where we have categorized them - that we could not even see..

Such as, someone truly getting a 100% stability with their natural sexuality - in a way which most others cannot even imagine themselves being whole as a being - by escorting / meeting a perfect individual by seeing someone involved in (..what us others would categorize..) as prostitution..

And then, to get really deeply into this subject, what - I think - the truth will boil down into, is, whether the one perceiving these things is aware of being a soul, and a multidimensional being with free will (..because only a timeless point of consciousness, not bound by the necessities of material realitys reaction chains, is capable of having the possibility to choose a choice, that is not a dictation of the outward and internal processes taking place..), and what is the truth about others?

Understanding that, will answer the question about what is good and what is not - and that can one human determine a good way of living to others that would benefit the all.

Personally I see it that way, that all the rules that have ever written, can apply satisfactorily on the situation where for, and due to which they were written - but due to the diversity of peoples needs, and the natural urges in men and women, we might have to force that law on to everyone, instead of there being true benefit to everyone.

Also, I see it in the way that determining what is good, and best for all individuals that exist.. ..will and would require the need to understand all things that have existed and that will ever exist, from everyones point of observation, in order for it to suit all beings in the universe.

It would sort of require a beginning and and end of one universe, to have any possibility to determine what is good or how something is related in some scale in regards to others, in that universe - and only then could there be an approach with an understanding of what kind of rules might lead into what kind of outcomes in that universe - only that then it would not be the universe that was observed anymore, since forcing that law on the universe would have changed the reality being observed, in such a manner, that would produce new universe with requirements for new laws... and then, that new universe with that law being applied would generate... more requirements for new laws due to that universe not being the same, or no where near the same as what the first universe (where we needed the law in the first place) was..

..so - from this, I believe - that we can see, that what lifes greatest thing truly is, is the diversity of life, and the so differing possibility of approaching them, and others, from a point of perspective that we can (also) alter (depending to our own personal needs).

This is what I think, but I do not say this would be the whole truth for others..

..so personally I am okay with escorting, and see it very positively to show that one is attracted to females beauty (incl TGirls ofcourse!), and we might all have differing opinions as to what being the right way to cherish that kind of beauty though. Also depending alot on the situation and the vibes at hand, I would say it can be great and fulfilling.. ..and it can also be something else, depending on the one perceiving the situation, and also depending on the nature of the situation itself, and what kind of perception of the situation that will render to someone experiencing that escorting situation - and what kind of force one is willing to give (..or giving..) to such a point of view growing in their own personal experience [..that might even be based to someone elses inadequate assumptions of what is right or wrong for them in that certain situation..].

I am thinking there are multitudes of ways, in which people can enjoy themselves and time with others, with respect, love and friendliness - what I might be only growing to understand (from my personally limited, but just as beautiful set of mind, as any others)..

Really interesting, and soo deep subject! Thanks for bringing this up, this is just what I have to say or think about this..

[irongoddess]

sometimes people forget we are human beings!

[Gthoma2a]

I assess looks, but that is only if I don't have access to the personalities behind them. I think they are the epitome of sexy and also have amazing personalities behind them. It is just that often we are looking at pornstars on here and it is hard to get too much other than features and little things about them from their work. I am fascinated with Fernanda Barros in every way. One of my favorite scenes wasn't anything to do with her body or anything sexual, but rather how pleasant she seemed when singing in the shower... that is stuff we don't get to talk about much on places like this. So I feel guilty if I am doing it, but I think the medium has something to do with it.

[www.tglovers.com]

I agree 100%

[www.tglovers.com]

I agree 100%


Really interesting topic, like the earlier one dealing with escorting.

Was about to respond to that, since this issue is close to my heart, but I will reply now, since this is so interesting..

(I really like your approach to this thing, and it is really a good subject of conversation.)

What I think this boils down to, is how we respect eachother as beings - and also what we expect from each other as human beings.

For example, as you said about the blow up doll thing, some men seem to treat t-women like blow up dolls, that do not have an opinion about anything. Incase we see only that side, when we are looking at a situation where for example we have only 2 people with somewhat differing needs from our own, communicating - a woman who is careful about how she looks, and how good and sexy she looks, and also is willing to accept someones enjoyment of her looks while also accepting them giving a certain amount of income for that...

..and then, this man, enjoying this womans looks, and her whole body and sexyness, also respecting / joining that womans wish to have a steady income of something they enjoy doing..

..if our only perspective on this situation is, that the man is simply disregarding that womans feelings, or that there must be something wrong with it - then we can only see that what we are looking for, while disregarding the other part of the truth - which can be only known and experienced (therefor also understood) by the 2 experiencing that situation.

And if we categorize things as to, escorting being simply about lowering the status of females, then that is something we are seeing in even those cases where there is true benefit and spiritual good happening for all parties involved.

There could be also levels of benefit, from someone doing something in those categories where we have categorized them - that we could not even see..

Such as, someone truly getting a 100% stability with their natural sexuality - in a way which most others cannot even imagine themselves being whole as a being - by escorting / meeting a perfect individual by seeing someone involved in (..what us others would categorize..) as prostitution..

And then, to get really deeply into this subject, what - I think - the truth will boil down into, is, whether the one perceiving these things is aware of being a soul, and a multidimensional being with free will (..because only a timeless point of consciousness, not bound by the necessities of material realitys reaction chains, is capable of having the possibility to choose a choice, that is not a dictation of the outward and internal processes taking place..), and what is the truth about others?

Understanding that, will answer the question about what is good and what is not - and that can one human determine a good way of living to others that would benefit the all.

Personally I see it that way, that all the rules that have ever written, can apply satisfactorily on the situation where for, and due to which they were written - but due to the diversity of peoples needs, and the natural urges in men and women, we might have to force that law on to everyone, instead of there being true benefit to everyone.

Also, I see it in the way that determining what is good, and best for all individuals that exist.. ..will and would require the need to understand all things that have existed and that will ever exist, from everyones point of observation, in order for it to suit all beings in the universe.

It would sort of require a beginning and and end of one universe, to have any possibility to determine what is good or how something is related in some scale in regards to others, in that universe - and only then could there be an approach with an understanding of what kind of rules might lead into what kind of outcomes in that universe - only that then it would not be the universe that was observed anymore, since forcing that law on the universe would have changed the reality being observed, in such a manner, that would produce new universe with requirements for new laws... and then, that new universe with that law being applied would generate... more requirements for new laws due to that universe not being the same, or no where near the same as what the first universe (where we needed the law in the first place) was..

..so - from this, I believe - that we can see, that what lifes greatest thing truly is, is the diversity of life, and the so differing possibility of approaching them, and others, from a point of perspective that we can (also) alter (depending to our own personal needs).

This is what I think, but I do not say this would be the whole truth for others..

..so personally I am okay with escorting, and see it very positively to show that one is attracted to females beauty (incl TGirls ofcourse!), and we might all have differing opinions as to what being the right way to cherish that kind of beauty though. Also depending alot on the situation and the vibes at hand, I would say it can be great and fulfilling.. ..and it can also be something else, depending on the one perceiving the situation, and also depending on the nature of the situation itself, and what kind of perception of the situation that will render to someone experiencing that escorting situation - and what kind of force one is willing to give (..or giving..) to such a point of view growing in their own personal experience [..that might even be based to someone elses inadequate assumptions of what is right or wrong for them in that certain situation..].

I am thinking there are multitudes of ways, in which people can enjoy themselves and time with others, with respect, love and friendliness - what I might be only growing to understand (from my personally limited, but just as beautiful set of mind, as any others)..

Really interesting, and soo deep subject! Thanks for bringing this up, this is just what I have to say or think about this..


sometimes people forget we are human beings!