WTF at Arizona!

[Silcc69]

http://theweek.com/article/index/202185/Arizonas_laughable_Birther_bill

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Arizona's 'laughable' Birther bill

Arizona's state legislature wants Obama to produce his birth certificate before he seeks re-election in their state. Seriously?

posted on April 23, 2010, at 11:57 AM
http://redesign.theweek.com/img/dir_0043/21751_article_main.jpg
"Birthers" insist Obama was not born in Hawaii. Photo: Getty


Best Opinion: ChattaBox, Just One Minute, LA Times
The "birthers" are back. Arizona's House of Representatives [URL="http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/azelections/articles/2010/04/19/20100419birther-bill-arizona-approved-by-house.html"]voted (http://addthis.com/bookmark.php?v=250&pub=wiesen)this week to bar presidential candidates from the state's ballot unless they produce a U.S. birth certificate. The proposed law would force Obama to document his Hawaii birth when he runs for re-election in "The Grand Canyon State." Are Arizona lawmakers taking the "birther" cause mainstream, or turning their state into a joke? (Watch a CNN discussion about the Arizona "birther" bill (http://video.theweek.com/video/Is-Arizonas-new-law-going-after#c=G9VZ4W2LHKKKZ0J0&t=Is%20Arizona%27s%20new%20law%20going%20after%20O bama?))

Arizona is flirting with lunacy: First Arizona lawmakers pass a bill "institutionalizing brown-skin racial profiling," say the editors of ChattahBox (http://chattahbox.com/us/2010/04/21/ariz-legislature-passes-birther-bill-demanding-obamas-birth-certificate/), and now this "conservative and heavily armed state" is embracing "the crazy fringe of the Republican Party." Arizona is now the "laughingstock of the nation."
"Arizona Legislature passes 'Birther Bill' demanding Obama's birth certificate" (http://chattahbox.com/us/2010/04/21/ariz-legislature-passes-birther-bill-demanding-obamas-birth-certificate/)

Obama isn't helping: "If Arizona can persuade Team Obama to ask for and release the complete file and shut a few people up, I am all for it," says Tom Maguire in Just One Minute (http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2010/04/birthers-verus-the-electoral-college.html). Presumably, detailed records would just show that Obama was born exactly where he says he was. But the president won't budge: "The most transparent Administration in history is either fueling partisan rancor for their own benefit or hiding something."
"Birthers versus the Electoral College" (http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2010/04/birthers-verus-the-electoral-college.html)

Go ahead, Arizona. Make our day: If Arizona actually enacts this cockamamie law, says Jon Healey in the Los Angeles Times (http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2010/04/arizona-birther-bill-obama-citizenship.html), a state court will only toss it out as "an unconstitutional imposition of state eligibility requirements on federal candidates." Too bad: It would be nice to have a federal judge dismiss the birther nonsense once and for all — though it's doubtful even that would shut up these loonies.
"Arizona gives 'birthers' a dim flicker of hope" (http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2010/04/arizona-birther-bill-obama-citizenship.html)

[NYBURBS]

Personally, I don't think he was born outside of the United States. With that said... What is the point of an eligibility requirement if you have no verification mechanism in place?

While I have not looked up the case law regarding state regulations of federal elections, afaik the States do have the power to regulate the conduct of elections, with the exception as to the time of choosing electors and the day when they cast their vote. So if they want to say that you have to produce x,y,z type documents to show your eligibility to appear on the ballot then that is probably within their power.

I have to say though that all the "outrage" over this does tend to make me suspicious. If he's a natural born citizen then what is the big deal. Fuck I have to produce multiple ID to get a damn drivers license, never mind appear on the ballot to be President.

[trish]

What more verification do you need? His birth announcement was in the paper and his certification of birth (or whatever it's called in Hawaii) is on file. It was examined by the a number media and government personae including the republican governor of Hawaii.

[hippifried]

What more verification do you need? His birth announcement was in the paper and his certification of birth (or whatever it's called in Hawaii) is on file. It was examined by the a number media and government personae including the republican governor of Hawaii.
The State department examined Barack Obama's paperwork, including his birth certificate, long before anybody even knew who he was. He has a US passport. He didn't visit outside the country as an adult for the first time on Airforce I. This is such a non-issue.




I have to say though that all the "outrage" over this does tend to make me suspicious. If he's a natural born citizen then what is the big deal. Fuck I have to produce multiple ID to get a damn drivers license, never mind appear on the ballot to be President.
What outrage? The only ones acting silly are the idiots who just can't get over the idea that they lost the election & there's a negro in the Whitehouse above servant status. Outrage? Nah. Just exasperation with this constant nuisance from the klan/nazis.

By the way: I'm from AZ, where you don't need multiple IDs to get a driver's licence. It's my permanent home. I had my wallet stolen once & got my DL replaced with an expired bank card & a phone bill. In AZ, that IS your ID. As I look at my AZ DL, my place of birth or citizenship status isn't anywhere on it. Never has been. I don't remember anyone ever asking. Neither is my SSN. So... What kind of papers are Arizonans supposed to carry to satisfy somebody who challenges your legitamacy to be breathing US air, with this new law they just passed?

There's always been a large percentage of "hispanic" people in AZ. The ratio dropped in the late '70s & early '80s, when the "snowbirds" stopped going back home for the summer & stayed permanently. By the late '80s, Phoenix had become the "whitest" major market in the country. Now it's starting to balance back out to where it was again. Statewide, I think the averge through the years is somewhere between 30% & 40%. Then there's all those Indians. They don't all live on the res. Without braids, feathers, or other hollywood stereotypes, most people can't tell the difference between them & a Mexican. That's probably because the Mexicans who look like Mexicans are really Indians who speak Spanish. As far as I'm concerned, if anybody really wants to start deporting unwanted immigrants from Arizona, maybe they should start with the transplants from Jersey or Philadelphia. They're the ones who refuse to assimilate into the local culture. & they didn't get permission slips to move in either.

[BluegrassCat]

The GOP appears determined to drive Hispanic voters to the Democratic party. Add that to solid democratic voting bloc that is the black community (which Michael Steele recently admitted is justified) and the Republican Party seems headed for extinction. How can they be nationally competitive based on the Southern white strategy? It seems like the Tea Party movement is exposing these fissures - very conservative angry whites who can't stand government spending on undeserving minorities vs. principled libertarian-types. We'll see if these Tea Partiers help win elections or serve as spoilers for the GOP in the Fall. Either way the GOP is becoming more and more estranged from the American mainstream.

[NYBURBS]

What more verification do you need? His birth announcement was in the paper and his certification of birth (or whatever it's called in Hawaii) is on file. It was examined by the a number media and government personae including the republican governor of Hawaii.

It's not a matter of what I want because as I said I have never really doubted that he was a natural born citizen. All I'm doing is pointing out that it's probably within their power to pass a law that requires proof of constitutional eligibility before they place you on the ballot. Now if they were to say that a State's birth certificate was not sufficient proof then they would run afoul of the full faith and credit provisions of the Constitution.

[trish]

Today Lindsay Graham got his pink panties in a bunch over Reed's push toward immigration reform. Fearful of looking even worse to Hispanic voters than they already do Lindsay threatened to withhold republican support of the new climate bill, insisting Reed drop the issue of immigration reform until after the election.

[ohioguy13]

our president brought this upon himself when filling out financial aid paperwork for occidental college he listed his citizenship as non us born to get free money. Now I dont think he ever thought hed have to explain it but obviously the more they try to cover up that statement the more it looks like a conspiracy. Hey its fair both sides always question the other. Bush had to put up with 4 yrs of name calling when he beat gore so here comes the other side doing the same. its just name calling

[trish]

Bullshit.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/occidental.asp

[BluegrassCat]

Citing an April Fools joke as evidence against the president...nice.

[buckjohnson]

The State department examined Barack Obama's paperwork, including his birth certificate, long before anybody even knew who he was. He has a US passport. He didn't visit outside the country as an adult for the first time on Airforce I. This is such a non-issue.


What outrage? The only ones acting silly are the idiots who just can't get over the idea that they lost the election & there's a negro in the Whitehouse above servant status. Outrage? Nah. Just exasperation with this constant nuisance from the klan/nazis.

By the way: I'm from AZ, where you don't need multiple IDs to get a driver's licence. It's my permanent home. I had my wallet stolen once & got my DL replaced with an expired bank card & a phone bill. In AZ, that IS your ID. As I look at my AZ DL, my place of birth or citizenship status isn't anywhere on it. Never has been. I don't remember anyone ever asking. Neither is my SSN. So... What kind of papers are Arizonans supposed to carry to satisfy somebody who challenges your legitamacy to be breathing US air, with this new law they just passed?

There's always been a large percentage of "hispanic" people in AZ. The ratio dropped in the late '70s & early '80s, when the "snowbirds" stopped going back home for the summer & stayed permanently. By the late '80s, Phoenix had become the "whitest" major market in the country. Now it's starting to balance back out to where it was again. Statewide, I think the averge through the years is somewhere between 30% & 40%. Then there's all those Indians. They don't all live on the res. Without braids, feathers, or other hollywood stereotypes, most people can't tell the difference between them & a Mexican. That's probably because the Mexicans who look like Mexicans are really Indians who speak Spanish. As far as I'm concerned, if anybody really wants to start deporting unwanted immigrants from Arizona, maybe they should start with the transplants from Jersey or Philadelphia. They're the ones who refuse to assimilate into the local culture. & they didn't get permission slips to move in either.


great post, hippi

[lifesduality]

The thing i find hilarious about this whole topis is the fact that McCain was born in panama and no one ever mentioned that

[paulgutierrez]

Illegal mexicans make all latins look bad and I say that as a latino

Illegal mexicans have made Arizona the home invasion and kidnap capital of the United States. they smuggle children across the border its no wonder the new law was drafted, hope it helps to clean up our image.

Mccain was born on a US base. Panama was us territory aka us soil. But who cares, Mccain is an idiot anyway.

Obama still has not and will not come out with his full BC or disclose his college records. Why is he so hellbent on hiding his past

Its YOU obama bots who need to get over the whole negro in the white house thing. Is that your only rebuttal to any criticism of Obama? Nobody gives a damn if hes black when there are so many black and non-white politicians already. what his critics do give a damn about though are his idiotic policies that are destroying this country.

facts

[onmyknees]

The GOP appears determined to drive Hispanic voters to the Democratic party. Add that to solid democratic voting bloc that is the black community (which Michael Steele recently admitted is justified) and the Republican Party seems headed for extinction. How can they be nationally competitive based on the Southern white strategy? It seems like the Tea Party movement is exposing these fissures - very conservative angry whites who can't stand government spending on undeserving minorities vs. principled libertarian-types. We'll see if these Tea Partiers help win elections or serve as spoilers for the GOP in the Fall. Either way the GOP is becoming more and more estranged from the American mainstream.


"There you go again"....Seems the "mainstream" supports the Arizona bill by pretty good margains. Even Barney Rubble ( Chris Matthews) admitted that tonight, so you know it must be true ....right? LOL

You'all are right about Arizona...what a bunch of right wing assholes.....l hope all the good folks there move to California....oh shit, that's right...they're fucking broke because of all the entitlements. ( liberals in charge) Ok Michigan ....fuck...they have 30% unemployment( liberals in charge)...ok well than it's onto NY....fuck....they're a heartbeat away from insolvency. ( liberals in charge) ....and the list goes on and on..

Looks like maybe they're not so fucking stupid there after all.

[trish]

There is no rise in violent crime in AZ due to legal or illegal immigration. These allegations are simply lies used to support an unwarranted law. The willingness to believe them are indicative of deep seated prejudice. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/State/StatebyState.cfm

[hippifried]

The "papers please" law really doesn't do much. It's just a way of saying that the State itself doesn't mind the cops fucking with people. Get ready for Joe Arpaio to unleash the Maricopa county sheriff's posse (a bunch of volunteer redneck vigilanties) again with nobody to stop them if they get out of hand except the local PDs. But they're doing all this shit anyway, & any arresting officer, anywhere in the US. has the power to check status, even if they're unsuccessful. No American is required to carry ID or talk to the police.

Anyway, while all this is getting so much attention, the real insideous "bigotry is official" law passed the AZ legislature & was signed last week. This is the law that says it's illegal to teach ethnic studies in the AZ public schools. This is a direct slap in the face to anyone who isn't white, by the klan/nazis who have been taking control of the legislature since the districting system that took effect in '81. There might be an easy fix though. It might get overturned or even repealed if, say, LULAC & the Urban Lague got together & sued every school in the State that teaches European or American history for violating this law. Ethnicity doesn't doesn't mean minority.

I stumbled on this youtube vid last night. Maybe y'all have seen it:
YouTube- Black on Beck - does Beck have Nazi Tourettes? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtlOBa6qa3o)

[notdrunk]

There is no rise in violent crime in AZ due to legal or illegal immigration. These allegations are simply lies used to support an unwarranted law. The willingness to believe them are indicative of deep seated prejudice. http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Crime/State/StatebyState.cfm

Failure on the Federal level caused this reaction. You think all the border states would just sit on their thumbs for years? The last time that the Federal government had balls on this matter is when they conducted "Operation Wetback" back in the 1950s.

[trish]

The border was never secure, never meant to be and never can be. I would have thought the lover's of liberty would be against the freedom of people to move and travel where and when they will. The failure is on the part of small minded bigots to see the bigger picture.

Lewis Black was great, hippiefried. I saw that last week when it aired the first time, and I think the suggestion that teaching European and American history definitely violates the letter of the law.

[hippifried]

The purpose of a border is not to keep people separated. It's there to separate government entities so they can't get too big & all powerful.

[notdrunk]

The border was never secure, never meant to be and never can be. I would have thought the lover's of liberty would be against the freedom of people to move and travel where and when they will. The failure is on the part of small minded bigots to see the bigger picture.

Lewis Black was great, hippiefried. I saw that last week when it aired the first time, and I think the suggestion that teaching European and American history definitely violates the letter of the law.

And, you fail to understand that we have immigration laws that allow people to move here. If you go around the law, you deserve to get the boot.

American is not a ethnicity. So, it would not violate that law they just passed.

[BeardedOne]

With all of the royalist/indigenous protests of late in Hawai'i, it might come down to the possibility that BO was born 'outside the US', but it's our own damn fault for invading and subjugating a peaceful nation in the first place.

[BeardedOne]

"Arizona sure is putting the A,Z in Nazi, aren't they?" - Glenn Beck

[trish]

Of those laws which effectively fence us in and immigrants were unfathomable to our founders. We owe those laws to the fear and prejudice of the early twentieth century response to the wave of Irish immigrants seeking a new life in our nation. Those laws run directly counter to motto inscribe on the Statue of Liberty. Arizona’s new set of laws, against teaches with heavy accents, against ethnic studies courses in high schools and against brown skinned people without papers and wearing shoes of the wrong style are just as bigoted, prejudiced and cowardly.

“American is not an ethnicity” makes a great sound bite. It’s true. But unfortunately it misses the point: which is the way American history is taught in American high schools. Typical American history follows a many month discussion (sometimes an entire course) of European history. Students hear about European trade routes, political frictions between European nations, and the European discovery of the “New World”. Sometimes brief mention is made of the earlier discovery of Vinland by the Vikings. This is where American history begins in the typical high school course. Once there students hear a rather brief account of the interactions of Native Americans and the new arrivals from Europe. Rarely do students hear about the trade routes that Native Americans established throughout the American continent prior to the pilgrims, or Sir Walter Raleigh. Rarely do students hear about intertribal politics and culture or anything prior in America to the arrival of Spanish, the Portuguese and the English. Face it: American history, as it is currently taught in our K-12 schools is the story of an European journey. An exciting story. A story worth hearing. But it is a story from an European/American point of view. There are complementary stories that are essential to a well rounded education. Yes, American is not an ethnicity...and American history should be taught with that motto in mind.

[Faldur]

YouTube- Glenn Beck - The Coming Insurrection And The Arizona Protests (http://youtube.com/watch?v=dDG3H4NhYMI)

[notdrunk]

Of those laws which effectively fence us in and immigrants were unfathomable to our founders. We owe those laws to the fear and prejudice of the early twentieth century response to the wave of Irish immigrants seeking a new life in our nation.

For starters, back in their time, an individual had to be white in order to be naturalized. Additionally, under the Naturalization Act of 1798, the waiting period was 14 years. The Chinese were the first group to be specifically prevented from migrating to the United States.


and American history should be taught with that motto in mind.I agree with what you're stating (American history courses need to incorporate more non-white information); however, I am starting to understand why the law was pushed by Horne...

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/0202vip-maceachern0203.html

The article was published in 2008.

[trish]

For starters, naturalization is a different issue than the mere freedom to cross a border at will. Moreover, the very tone of MacEeachern's lopsided article (that puts forward the unsupported opinion of one participant...a Mr. Ward... in the program) mimics the tone of Arizona's current ethno-phobia.

Ward is concerned with the anger some students expressed when learning about their history. Most teachers would be thrilled to get any sort of relevant emotional response from their students. History is a collection of stories and it should be told from as many different perspectives as time allows. Like all good stories, history is filled with tensions. I get pissed off when I read about the lynchings that took place all over the U.S. up into the twentieth century. That anger is not a bad thing; it’s just a human reaction to story history has to tell. I’m sure you can get caught up in the emotions that are offered up in a good movie about WWII or the Iraq War. Emotions in the classroom is a sign that you got the student’s attention. Be careful not to read too much into it.

[notdrunk]

For starters, naturalization is a different issue than the mere freedom to cross a border at will. Moreover, the very tone of MacEeachern's lopsided article (that puts forward the unsupported opinion of one participant...a Mr. Ward... in the program) mimics the tone of Arizona's current ethno-phobia.

Illegal immigrants are not just merely crossing the border. If they were simply just crossing the border, they would be visitors or tourists.

http://www.ade.state.az.us/pio/Press-Releases/2008/pr06-11-08-OpenLtr.pdf



Hector Ayala was born in Mexico, and is an excellent English teacher at Cholla High School in TUSD. He reports that the Director of Raza Studies accused him of being the “white man’s agent,” and that when this director was a teacher, he taught a separatist political agenda, and his students told Hector that they were taught in Raza Studies to “not fall for the white man’s traps.”If you have noticed, Horne has specifically mentioned the Tucson Unified School District's Hispanic course as why this law needed to be pass.

[hippifried]

The name of the book is Pedagogy of the Oppressed, not "the pedagogy of oppression". If msrs Horne & MacEachern want to be taken seriously, they could at least get the name right, since it's obvious that they haven't bothered to read it. It's an interesting (& important IMHO) treatise on educational systems & techniques for both teaching & learning. Of course it gets tagged as some sort of commie propaganda by the eurocentric proponants of "blab school" & caste, but that's probably because it goes over their heads or they just can't deal with the idea that ideas can come from someone who isn't a native English speaker.

Personally, I don't either of these guys seriously, & I'm really tired of all the alarmist carpetbaggers who want to change my State into something that it's never been. They didn't do their homework, & they're ignoring results in favor of ideology & fear. I've been reading lunatic editorials in the Republic for decades. It's entertaining, but not much else. I think my favorite is still the one from 1972 that wanted to round up hippies as a health hazard because they were going to start a major outbreak of bubonic plague. This is just more of the same. The TUSD wants to keep the program & expand it because they're seeing a direct corelation to higher grades & lower dropout rates. But why confuse people with facts when there's all this hyperbole to help get elected & re-elected? Arizona's problem isn't Mexicans & never has been. They've always been here. Tucson came along with the Gadsden Purchase. The problem is all the snowbirds who get here & immediately want to remake it into whatever piece of frozen tundra they escaped from.

[trish]

Interesting that the supposedly anti-government, tax-phobic population of Phoenix voted themselves a tax hike. Where's your tea-party now?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/20/us/20arizona.html

True it was a sales tax that outsiders pay as well as Arizonans, but it is encouraging to see that most Arizonans understand that they need government and they need occassionally to pay for it. When will the legislature get the message that the general populace isn't aligned with the gleefully paranoid partiers?