"Toward The End Of A Nearly Century-Long Struggle"

[chefmike]

WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama has hailed Senate passage of an historic health care bill, saying the government is now "finally poised to deliver on the promise" of overhauling a troubled system.

Speaking not long after the Senate passed the $871 billion bill by a 60-39 vote, Obama welcomed the vote as bringing America "toward the end of a nearly century-long struggle." He said presidents since Theodore Roosevelt in 1912 have been trying unsuccessfully to overhaul medical care.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/24/obama-health-care-bill-mo_n_402881.html

[Dirky]

About time!

Onwards and upwards...

[Beagle]

It will seal the fate for many of these Dems come 2010.

The majority of Americans do NOT want this travesty and will vote accordingly.

Hell, portions of this so-called bill aren't even Constitutional.

[JerseyMike]

Funny how he said presidents have been trying to over haul the health care system while the only thing President Obama has done is just give speeches on the subject while the Congress have made a bill that gives perks to Dems who held out. President Obama have failed those who wanted health care by just giving up on the subject and letting Congress who never get anything right deal with the subject.

[loren]

I don't think I've had enough to drink for this conversation.http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-eatdrink007.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

[Beagle]

Yeah it's funny how Obama has managed to piss off both sides. Lefty progressives are pissed because Obama caved in on the public option and all conservatives and moderates are pissed off period.

And then there are those who are pissed at the way Pelosi and Reid went about getting the votes with payoffs, bribes, and closed door meetings. So much for Obama's "transparent government" - just a big lie. At least it's likely that the asshole Reid will likely lose reelection.

So, all this hoopla and they didn't even get what they wanted. This will galvanize the opposition.

[chefmike]

No undermining this achievement
Eugene Robinson
Washington Post

When all is said and done – and, yes, there is a bit more saying and doing to endure, which means anything can happen – the health care reform legislation that President Barack Obama now seems likely to sign into law, while an unlovely mess, will be remembered as a landmark accomplishment.The bill making its way through the Senate by the slimmest of margins is imperfect, to say the least. But before listing its many flaws, let's consider the measure's one great virtue:

For the first time, we will enshrine the principle that all Americans deserve access to medical care regardless of their ability to pay. No longer will it be the policy and practice of our nation to ration health according to wealth.

When you blow away all the smoke, that's what this fight is about.

The Senate bill lacks a public health insurance option, the House bill is burdened by gratuitous abortion restrictions and the final product of a House-Senate conference will probably have both those failings. But once the idea of universal health care is signed into law, it will be all but impossible to erase. Over time, that idea will be made into reality.

The loose ends are so many and varied, in fact, that it will probably be necessary to revisit the health care issue sooner rather than later. Even if it takes years to get it right, eventually is better than never. History suggests that major new social initiatives have to be perfected over time – and that basic entitlements, once established, are rarely taken away.

Progressives who argue for killing the Senate bill and starting over should explain their position to the 30 million Americans without health insurance who would be covered under this insufficiently progressive legislation. They should recall that when Obama and the Democratic leadership in Congress began this crusade, public opinion was solidly in favor of reform.

With polls now showing widespread wariness, with Republicans having confused and frightened many voters who already have adequate health insurance, why would anyone think that beginning from scratch is likely to produce a more progressive result?

Is it ridiculous that the Senate bill essentially bribes Sen. Ben Nelson with special Medicaid reimbursements for Nebraska alone? Yes. Is it galling that the public option and the idea of a Medicare buy-in fell victim to Sen. Joe Lieberman's whims? Supremely so. But our eyes should be kept on the prize.

The bill has been described as a gift to the health insurance companies since it provides them with 30 million new customers and no competition from a public plan. I don't believe it's a coincidence that the stock prices of health insurers are soaring. But I also don't believe the main point of this exercise was to stick it to the insurance companies, however satisfying that might be.

While the reform package nearing completion bends the curve of rising health care costs, more bending is going to be needed. Ultimately, we're going to have to take a more fundamental look at how the health industry is structured.

So this isn't the end of a process that leads to a rational, sustainable, more efficient health care system. It's the beginning. But when a reform bill passes, as now seems likely, Obama and congressional leaders will have achieved a goal that progressives have sought for decades. They will have established that quality health care should be for all, not just for those who can afford it.

We have a system now in which Americans go bankrupt trying to pay doctors and hospitals to keep them alive. When you have the opportunity to change this, you take it – even if it means winning ugly.


_________________

[flabbybody]

Let's see..
*Millions of uninsured young healthy Americans will be required to purchase health insurance

*There will be no government option to compete with the for- profit private carriers

*Insurance companies cannot deny a policy for pre-existing conditions but are essentially free to charge whatever premium they feel appropriate depending on the disease

*Older customers will pay 3 times the premiums younger workers will pay

*There is no expansion of Medicare for citizens under 65 who have lost their group coverage because of lay offs and have exhausted their COBRA

quite a victory for the insurance companies. It's something a CIGNA exec would have written

[Beagle]

yeah so why are so many Dems so ecstatic? Is it just because so many got bribe money?

i really was hoping that the far left would force them to include a public option.

that way the whole thing would have went down in flames.

[fred41]

New York is doomed....Schumer and Gillibrand are useless , self-serving garbage.

[NYBURBS]

First, a joint House-Senate version has to be hammered out. It's entirely possible that the product of that joint committee will be a bill that does not garner the needed votes in either the house or the senate.

Second, as someone mentioned, these current bills are garbage. They mandate healthcare insurance, but essentially leave a person to pay whatever an insurance company sees fit to charge. Philosophically I don't believe in government price regulations, but I also don't believe one should be forced to engage in a business transaction.

Third, whatever does pass is likely to face a constitutional challenge. It's one thing to say that if you want to drive a vehicle you have to have insurance because driving a car is not seen as a basic right (you can always walk). Saying that you must pay money to a private business simply because you exist is a whole different ball game.

Finally, I think the ideal situation here would have been for Congress to use their inter-state commerce power to break down regulatory barriers in the States that stifle competition. Of course heaven forbid the Congress actually uses the commerce clause in a manner it was originally intended for lol. In the alternative, a full balls to the wall socialization would still have been preferable to this mess of a bill.

[hippifried]

Congress should take up the public option again, about 5 minutes after he signs the bill. Let that be the overriding issue going into the 2010 election, & we'll see what the public really thinks.

There's going to be something on the books now. Hard part's over. You can't fix the non-existent.

[lisaparadise]

It will seal the fate for many of these Dems come 2010.

The majority of Americans do NOT want this travesty and will vote accordingly.

Hell, portions of this so-called bill aren't even Constitutional.thats because most of the americans aernt that smart to begin with.yep the moron repulicans will screw everything up even worse then the past 8 years bush was in office.the problem in america is theres no crtc therefore idiots like rush and hannitty can mouth off and talk there bullshit till the cows come home and most of you people believe that shit while the rest of the world just shakes there heads in disbelief,and those television ads that the drug companies use to slam the dems on health care lol well there paid in full by the gop.when are you people gonna get your shit together and wake up obama has done what no other person could and thats get your health care if it were my choice id only allow dems to have it and let the republicans suffer since they dont want it anyways.america is the last of the elite countries to have health care congrats it only took ya a half century.

[Beagle]

hmmm... i guess thats why all those people from those so-called elite countries come to America to get the health care they cannot receive.

just wait till you have to wait for 6 months to get an MRI.

[flabbybody]

No one would argue that a wealthy Canadian will come to New York City for his bypass surgery because we have the best surgeons and hospitals in the world. Where do you think they'd fly Putin to if he had a sudden heart attack?
But what good is top of the line health care if it's only accessible to a small number of privleged VIPS?

Do you think the Manhattan doc who did Bill Clinton and David Letterman's operations ever sees uninsured patients? A lot of our top specialists will only treat patients on a cash basis because they don't want the hassle of reimbursement schedules that don't cover their full fee.

[raybbaby]

Hopefully this will be helpful. I don't see it as "toward the end of" anything really. I think to get to single payer universal care we will have to do it state by state.

[BellaBellucci]

Hell, portions of this so-called bill aren't even Constitutional.

You mean the part that requires you to buy a product simply in order to exist without being fined? If you don't want to buy mandated car insurance, you can stop driving, but if you don't want to buy health insurance, you're supposed to do what? Stop breathing? Fuck the 'healthcare overhaul.'

~BB~

PS: Whoops. I didn't read the whole thread. Sorry, NY BURBS! :P

[NYBURBS]

Hell, portions of this so-called bill aren't even Constitutional.

You mean the part that requires you to buy a product simply in order to exist without being fined? If you don't want to buy mandated car insurance, you can stop driving, but if you don't want to buy health insurance, you're supposed to do what? Stop breathing? Fuck the 'healthcare overhaul.'

~BB~

PS: Whoops. I didn't read the whole thread. Sorry, NY BURBS! :P

No worries, I'm sure I wasn't the first person to think of it anyways 8)

[pantybulge69]

It will seal the fate for many of these Dems come 2010.

The majority of Americans do NOT want this travesty and will vote accordingly.

Hell, portions of this so-called bill aren't even Constitutional.


Sounds like a true conservative talk. Which is the conservaticism is
leading reason why many americans have had to endure the
struggle with not getting affordable healthcare, even in the world's
most powerful country.

[El Nino]

This is one of the worst, most abhorrent and Unconstitutional pieces of legisaltion known to man. Almost makes me feel as sick as this video! Have some "CHANGE" why don't ya...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LsSppYxSHk

[El Nino]

BTW Chef BS, you posted this thread in the wrong section. Should be in the Politics area... Zippy!

[Beagle]

No one would argue that a wealthy Canadian will come to New York City for his bypass surgery because we have the best surgeons and hospitals in the world. Where do you think they'd fly Putin to if he had a sudden heart attack?
But what good is top of the line health care if it's only accessible to a small number of privleged VIPS?

Do you think the Manhattan doc who did Bill Clinton and David Letterman's operations ever sees uninsured patients? A lot of our top specialists will only treat patients on a cash basis because they don't want the hassle of reimbursement schedules that don't cover their full fee.

It's not just the rich who come from Canada to the USA for health care. The vast majority are middle income people who can't get timely service in Canada.

In fact, there are numerous businesses in Canada that do nothing else than to set up and match Canadian citizens with Doctors and Hospitals here in the USA.

I personally know several Canadians who have come to the US for service and these people aren't rich by any stretch of the imagination.

Please take a moment and watch this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdx_2cuPgQQ&feature=player_embedded

[95racer]

The health care legislation has nothing to do with health care. It greatly increases controlling power and makes even more dependents for government. That is the final objective.

[El Nino]

This was Chefmike's last post ever... what happened to him?

[broncofan]

Good question. I was mostly only reading posts at the time but I liked that guy.

[trish]

'often asked myself the same question. He was one of the stars of these boards and was always around to lend moral support and bring his special kind of sympathetic outrage to the issues that arose. Love you Chefmike, where ever you are.