Noami Klein on the Privatization of War...

[Ben]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPILd2vCkBY

[techi]

Privatizing state functions and/or infrastructure is just a bad idea.

We shouldn't even allow private armys to exist. They make us look like a shitty banana republic.

[yodajazz]

I have heard conservative theorists say that private business is always more efficient than government. However, the bottom line for business is profit, whereas the government's bottom line is accountablity to the people, via service goals. My 'favorite' government privatization is that of prisons. I still question what is their overall relationship between profit and turning out prisoners who would commit less crime upon their return to the community.

Anyway, this is a good and thoughtful video. Thanks for the link.

[hippifried]

I don't care about efficiency. War is absolutely the most inefficient use of resources possible, wo what does it matter? This is about promoting the acceptance of perpetual war as the norm, & profiteering as legitimate. We market war like soap. Ain't that glorious?

[techi]

Yeah, privatized prisons are probably #2 on my shit list after privatized armys.

How does society benefit from privatized prisons when the shareholders in the prisons are also the lawmakers and judges? It's just guaranteed profits at the expense of the taxpayer. It also encourages our lawmakers to write unworkable laws that are guaranteed to throw volumes of people in jail.

I completely agree that private companies are the most efficient at generating private profits. But private companies have absolutely no sense of public purpose, nor should they. In cases where private companies are working within the framework of a compeditive market place then some public purpose does emerge in the form of lower prices and higher quality goods&services. And in other cases, government laws and regulations can force companies to provide public purpose(environmental laws for example).

But if you give a private company monopoly control of needed infrastructure without any rules&regulations then you are going to get high prices and low quality. Makes sense for the company, they are maximizing thier profits. Sorta like Enron gouging California with mini-bar prices for energy.

In most cases I think it's best to just have government owning and managing the infrastructure of the country and private companies sticking with consumer goods. I don't want a government toaster and I don't want corporate tollbooths on every damn road in the country.

[trish]

In Pennsylvania last year two judges where indicted for taking kickbacks from private prisons for juveniles. The judges were essentially finding kids guilty and sending them off to prison for a fee.

[Rogers]

Other attempts at overthrowing foreign governments for the sake of big oil include Equatorial Guinea and Venezuela:

2004 Equatorial Guinea coup d'état attempt
"The 2004 Equatorial Guinea coup d'état attempt was an alleged coup attempt against the government of Equatorial Guinea in order to replace President Teodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo with exiled opposition politician Severo Moto, carried out by mercenaries and organised by mainly British financiers. Equatorial Guinea has vast oil and gas reserves. One US official called it "the new Kuwait".[1]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Equatorial_Guinea_coup_d'%C3%A9tat_attempt

Margaret Thatcher's son was involved:
Thatcher fined over 'coup plot'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4169557.stm
Pentagon link to Guinea coup plot
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/27/usa.equatorialguinea


2002 Venezuelan coup d'état attempt
"The Venezuelan coup attempt of 2002 was a failed coup d'état on April 11, 2002 that lasted 47 hours, whereby the head of state President Hugo Chávez was illegally detained,[1] the National Assembly and the Supreme Court dissolved, and the country's Constitution declared void.[2]"

"The coup was publicly condemned by Latin American nations (the Rio Group presidents were gathered together in San José, Costa Rica, at the time, and were able to issue a joint communiqué) and international organizations. The United States and Chile quickly acknowledged the de facto pro-US Carmona government, but ended up condemning the coup after it had been defeated.[7]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Venezuelan_coup_d'%C3%A9tat_attempt

[Rogers]

John Pilger's documentary on the Venezuelan coup d'état attempt covers Milton Friedman, "The Chicago Boys", and the Bush Administration's involvement through the "National Endowment for Democracy":
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=pilger+democracy&emb=0#

Loose Cannon: The National Endowment for Democracy
"NED, which also has a history of corruption and financial mismanagement, is superfluous at best and often destructive. Through the endowment, the American taxpayer has paid for special-interest groups to harass the duly elected governments of friendly countries, interfere in foreign elections, and foster the corruption of democratic movements."
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=1552

[Rogers]

National Endowment for Death Squads? The AFL-CIO and the NED

"FEW TAXPAYERS ARE familiar with the National Endowment for Democracy, a publicly funded yet privately owned organization operating in at least forty countries. NED's mission? To help the United States set up capitalist economies around the world, backed by regimes that are friendly to U.S. big business."...

Octopus Arms
One Empire, One Development Model
ACILS: Reforming Or Restructuring?
Meddling in Venezuela

Iraq and Beyond

"A key strategic aim of U.S. imperialism in the Middle East is to break state control over oil production and reserves and open them up to the direct control of U.S. based energy conglomerates. The first act of L. Paul Bremer, who led the U.S. occupation of Iraq from May 2, 2003 until his early departure on June 28, 2004, was to fire 500,000 state workers including teachers, doctors, nurses, publishers and printers.

Next he opened Iraq's borders to unrestricted imports, declaring it "open for business." Enacting a radical set of laws unprecedented in their generosity to multinational corporations, Bremer allowed foreign companies to own 100 percent of Iraqi assets outside the natural resource sector, and to take all of these profits out of the country tax free with no obligation to reinvest in Iraq. The only remnant from Saddam Hussein's economic policy was—a law restricting trade unions and collective bargaining!"...
http://www.iefd.org/articles/for_death_squads.php

[Rogers]

Whatever happened to government of the people, by the people, for the people?

Democracy Cartoons
http://www.iefd.org/articles/cartoons.php

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
- George Orwell.

[Rogers]

Hessians Redux: Blackwater, U.S. and England
"It's strange that most of our American brethren have forgotten the Hessians, the mercenaries the British hired to fight against us in the Revolutionary War."...

"While most analogies have flaws in them, this one does not. At this point, according to the AP and Reuters wire services, the mercenaries of Blackwater outnumber our American troops in Iraq. Remember also, that we, as taxpayers are paying for these mercenaries to work for the benefit of Halliburton, Bechtel and other American companies who are ensconced in Iraq at our government's pleasure."...

"Tis a sad day, a day that President George Washington would condemn."
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18429.htm

http://www.zazzle.com/blackwater_hessians_bumper_sticker-128734835824003415

[techi]

Yes, privatization is a key weapon key weapon used to loot 3rd world nations. Get them in over thier heads in debt... then the IMF bails them out but imposes conditionalities. The IMF conditions typically require that the country liberalize and open thier markets.

Words like "liberalize" and "open" sound great until you realize that the results are that the nations natural resources and infrastructure will be sold off(privatized) to multinational corporations which will then loot the hell out of everything. Picture Enron owning and running an entire nation(into the ground).

I think this has much to do with the sabre wrattling with Iran. Key elements of the Iranian market are very much closed to foreign investment and control. And a civilian nuclear energy program would make Iran more independant... harder to fall into a debt trap. The concern over Iran developing nuclear weapons is all a self-righteous sham.

One of my favorite shams is George Soros's fake left wing NGO's. Soros uses them to destabilize countries on a for profit basis:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/TAL307A.html

I remember that Human Rights Watch provided the first independant (and later proved incorrect) reporting on the Georgia-Russia conflict in 2008. HRW's reporting pointed the finger at Russia having started the conflict. That's great and all... until you realize that Soros is a major funder of Human Rights Watch -AND- Soros was a major funder of the Rose Revolution that brought the current Georgian government to power.

[techi]

"... according to the AP and Reuters wire services, the mercenaries of Blackwater outnumber our American troops in Iraq. Remember also, that we, as taxpayers are paying for these mercenaries to work for the benefit of Halliburton, Bechtel and other American companies who are ensconced in Iraq at our government's pleasure."...


Yes, claims of US troop reductions in Iraq are sham if said troops are merely replaced with private armies.

What hope is to be found in this change?

[Rogers]

N.E.D. (more commonly called "Project Democracy") is part of the reason behind the likes of Iran-Contra, Gulf-War II, and the current hawking of Iran.
NED and 'Project Democracy'
(by William Blum | January 2000)
http://www.friendsoftibet.org/databank/usdefence/usd5.html

Adam Curtis covers all of this in his excellent documentary series entitled, "The Trap".
The Trap - 3 - We Will Force You To Be Free
"Curtis also looked at the neo-conservative agenda of the 1980s. Like Sartre, they argued that violence would sometimes be necessary to achieve their goals, except they wished to spread what they described as democracy."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trap_(television_documentary_series)
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=curtis+trap&emb=0#

Neo-conservative Michael Leeden, the same guy involved in Iran-Contra and the Niger Forgeries, calls himself a "democratic revolutionary". Like all of his fellow Neo-Cons' he is an ideologue and a firm believer in expediency, i.e. "the ends justify the means". These guys aren't going away anytime soon, so you should expect more conflicts to come...

P.S. Who mentioned Israel? :shock: :wink:
http://www.rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/Ledeen_Michael

[yodajazz]

N.E.D. (more commonly called "Project Democracy") is part of the reason behind the likes of Iran-Contra, Gulf-War II, and the current hawking of Iran.
NED and 'Project Democracy'
(by William Blum | January 2000)
http://www.friendsoftibet.org/databank/usdefence/usd5.html

Adam Curtis covers all of this in his excellent documentary series entitled, "The Trap".
The Trap - 3 - We Will Force You To Be Free
"Curtis also looked at the neo-conservative agenda of the 1980s. Like Sartre, they argued that violence would sometimes be necessary to achieve their goals, except they wished to spread what they described as democracy."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trap_(television_documentary_series)
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=curtis+trap&emb=0#

Neo-conservative Michael Leeden, the same guy involved in Iran-Contra and the Niger Forgeries, calls himself a "democratic revolutionary". Like all of his fellow Neo-Cons' he is an ideologue and a firm believer in expediency, i.e. "the ends justify the means". These guys aren't going away anytime soon, so you should expect more conflicts to come...

P.S. Who mentioned Israel? :shock: :wink:
http://www.rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/Ledeen_Michael
The strange thing to me is the the Contras of Nicaragua were trying to over throw a legally elected government. Yet no one in the media makes the point that just a few years ago the US government thought it was cool to subvert democracy. But now we pretend that spreading democracy is our noble goal.

I might be wrong, but back in the 80's when the Soviet Union went into Afghanistan, it was to support a democratically elected socialist government. Of course then it was also cool for the US to arm radical Muslims. But aren't people who arm radical Muslims supporting terrorism? I'm so confused!

[notdrunk]

The strange thing to me is the the Contras of Nicaragua were trying to over throw a legally elected government. Yet no one in the media makes the point that just a few years ago the US government thought it was cool to subvert democracy. But now we pretend that spreading democracy is our noble goal.

I might be wrong, but back in the 80's when the Soviet Union went into Afghanistan, it was to support a democratically elected socialist government. Of course then it was also cool for the US to arm radical Muslims. But aren't people who arm radical Muslims supporting terrorism? I'm so confused!

In the late 1970s, the Sandinistas overthrew the Debayle government. The Contras came about right after the Sandinistas overthrew the Debayle government.

The Democratic Republic of Afghanistan was not a democratic nation. A military coup created the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan. They model themselves after the Soviets and other Marxist nations. Interestingly, the KGB assassinated the first Prime Minister of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan. The official excuse was that he was a CIA agent; however, he was not a CIA agent.

[techi]

The strange thing to me is the the Contras of Nicaragua were trying to over throw a legally elected government. Yet no one in the media makes the point that just a few years ago the US government thought it was cool to subvert democracy. But now we pretend that spreading democracy is our noble goal.

I might be wrong, but back in the 80's when the Soviet Union went into Afghanistan, it was to support a democratically elected socialist government. Of course then it was also cool for the US to arm radical Muslims. But aren't people who arm radical Muslims supporting terrorism? I'm so confused!

I think the general logic in these cases is pretty much "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". The Soviets were the Evil Empire, thus the enemies of Soviet allies were deemed to be freedom fighters. Suporting Freedom Fighters was stated to be in the vital interest of the United States because the Evil Empire was considered a significant threat.

After the fall of the Soviet Union these groups lost thier Freedom Fighter status. No more Evil Empire meant no more Freedom Fighters and no more vital interests at stake. At least till 9/11 when we got a replacement for the Evil Empire.... the Evil Terrorist Network known as Al Quaeda.

Of course, a simpler and more accurate rational in all these cases would be that "power does what power wants". And the War on Terrorism gives us cover to do just about anything that we are capable of doing.

[techi]

Now Blackwater's looking to train NGO's and Faith Based Organizations....

Blackwater Offers Training to 'Faith Based Organizationns'
By Jeremy Scahill

http://rebelreports.com/post/189642197/blackwater-offers-training-to-faith-based

[Ben]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OCdIHZ5YJc

[yodajazz]

The idea that it would be easier for the US to deal with smaller regional groups was part of the reasoning put forth by PNAC (Project for a New Amercian Century) in the mid-late ninties. Some of the major players in that group were Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfield, who of course had major positions under George W.

Also the agrument that private industry is always more efficient than government is a key conservative concept. Hopefully people are learning that private companies handling public issues for thier own profit creates the problem of greed possibly subverting the public good. We have the living example with the Iraq war.

Thanks for the link. I'll have to keep up more with Naiomi Klein.

[NYBURBS]

I think that in most cases private business out performs public entities. However, there is a strong reason for why war fighting should remain a governmental function. Our constitution vests the President with direct command of the military, and therefore there is, at least in theory, political accountability at the top of the military chain of command.

That is of course separate from the issue of our foreign policy. Since at least the time of Teddy Roosevelt, we have been embarking on a campaign of international interference, or even imperialism. While the Europeans favored direct colonization, the US has seemed to dominate through proxy. We help overthrow governments that do not adhere to the wishes of our political and business elite, and in some cases directly invade other nations under rather dubious or questionable circumstances (and then install governments favorable to the political/business elite).

Great thread with a lot of good input. Especially enjoyed the links Rogers posted.

[Cuchulain]

HIYA BURBS!

God bless Naomi Klein and Jeremy Scahill.

[NYBURBS]

HIYA BURBS!

God bless Naomi Klein and Jeremy Scahill.

What's the good word bro? It's been awhile.

[Cuchulain]

HIYA BURBS!

God bless Naomi Klein and Jeremy Scahill.

What's the good word bro? It's been awhile.

No good word - Economy is in the toilet and Barry O is a milquetoast. Good to see you posting again. Now what can we argue about? Lol

[Ben]

The idea that it would be easier for the US to deal with smaller regional groups was part of the reasoning put forth by PNAC (Project for a New Amercian Century) in the mid-late ninties. Some of the major players in that group were Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfield, who of course had major positions under George W.

Also the agrument that private industry is always more efficient than government is a key conservative concept. Hopefully people are learning that private companies handling public issues for thier own profit creates the problem of greed possibly subverting the public good. We have the living example with the Iraq war.

Thanks for the link. I'll have to keep up more with Naiomi Klein.

Naomi Klein's book NO LOGO celebrates its 10th anniversary and its re-release:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piDk3uzamBM

[beandip]

Yodajazz:
"whereas the government's bottom line is accountablity to the people, via service goals."




Accountability?

You're not serious, right?

[Ben]

Naomi Klein on C-Span: Triple Privatization in the Iraq War


YouTube- Naomi Klein on C-Span: Triple Privatization in the Iraq War (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0ejNylVztk&feature=related)

[Ben]

Naomi Klein speaks for the Council of Canadians:

YouTube- Shout Out 2 Naomi Klein speaks for the Council of Canadians (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEwobiihZ1A)

[Ben]

This is a much better video, quality wise:

YouTube- Naomi Klein - Shout Out for Global Justice pt 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmIyFo-aLTk)

[Virtualdistance]

the bottom line for business is profit


Thats why profitwars will continue even when not needed cause big businesses are run like big businesses , why should human life be worth less than a handfull of dollars when the multibillion cooporations need to have "financial progress"

Thats the Mussolinistyle-fascist goverments true nature , a great bond between state and multibillion cooporations...
Fuck the lill guy..