no shade.... but wtf?

[tsntx]

http://intersexnews.blogspot.com/2009/02/hontas-farmer-investigation.html

[Nicole Dupre]

http://www.cartoon-secrets.com/Photos/DroopyDog3.jpg

[Alyssa87]

they ripped her apart. yikes

[JohnnyWalkerBlackLabel]

http://fc09.deviantart.com/fs43/f/2009/101/1/d/1d496b680547cc12ce64643c63c71db8.gif

[Nicole Dupre]

I hate when people cop this attitude.

http://www.scientificblogging.com/quantum_gravity/blog/a_talk_with_julia_serano_then_walking_dr_mccloskey s_dog

My opinion has never changed. Whatever her current name is, she's a little touched and full of shit too.

If she has friends who I'm offending right now, I apologize. But to me, she's kinda creepy.

[Luna555]

wow....

[JeniferTS]

hontas farmer :lol:

[Odelay]

Now would be an ideal time to have Mimi back participating on the boards to get her reaction. 8)

[Silcc69]

wow....

DOUBLE WOW!

:jawdrop

[vincidog]

Wow! Good catch tsntx

[Willie Escalade]

DAMN! :o

[ozma]

Yikes, that's fucked UP!!

[Legend]

Wow she must have really pissed off someone because that is some major ownage.

[phobun]

This just seems like part of a perpetual pissing match between weirdos on both sides of the Bailey wars who have nothing better to do with their time.

In my opinion, that anyone would waste valuable electrons posting such a shrill and anonymous attack on an easy target, who is obviously an eccentric individual, is no testament to whomever is the author of this hitjob.

[Felicia Katt]

wow

[Quiet Reflections]

thats some funny stuff

[ed_jaxon]

Who would probe that deep into someone's online life?

Kinda scary.

[Nicole Dupre]

... whomever is the author of this hitjob...

Whoever they are, they're far more literate than Brenda. Those articles she writes are grammatical train wrecks. http://intersexnews.blogspot.com/

Anyway, over two ears ago I was asking all of these questions right on this forum; how to you integrate right-wing politics, Allah, give half-ass quantum physics lectures on YouTube, and escorting? Looks like these she threw up some red flags with these "intersex news" people too. She acted out pretty violently a few years ago with that whole incident involving Mimi, and I suspect that's just with tip of the iceberg with her. But I don't wanna know anymore about her now. lol

[dc_guy_75]

That situation is seriously fucked up.

Great, I'm totally creeped out right now. Awesome.

[yodajazz]

But part of the article cites some forum as a reliable source. Here is one of thier source links:
http://hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=29747&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=10&sid=94d5eaf8f7d0924380daac967812eb7b

The thread at the top of the page lists a quote by someone named "Nicole Dupree".

Here's another source listed:
http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=28071&sid=89065f00cc3fb387d38c2e024ed38175

And this poster with the name "Mimiplastique". That sounds like a screen name or something. Does anyone know if this linked forum has reliable people as sources?

[tsntx]

But part of the article cites some forum as a reliable source. Here is one of thier source links:
http://hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=29747&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=10&sid=94d5eaf8f7d0924380daac967812eb7b

The thread at the top of the page lists a quote by someone named "Nicole Dupree".

Here's another source listed:
http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=28071&sid=89065f00cc3fb387d38c2e024ed38175

And this poster with the name "Mimiplastique". That sounds like a screen name or something. Does anyone know if this linked forum has reliable people as sources?


lol i didnt notice that but i definately thought it was scary how much information that has been posted on this board was on that site... not that what the information was legit or not... just that they had so much info

[2009AD]

Who the fuck cares?

[hwbs]

that vid clip had me on my ass !!!!

[Nicole Dupre]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whp_AKgJ_c0

Is it just me, or is she batshit nuts? Wtf was the point of that video? lol ;)

Brenda, you're so coldly analytical, yet so... aimless... as usual. lol Btw, your voice is NOT especially feminine, so I can't believe you'd read anyone on their voice.

[yodajazz]

But part of the article cites some forum as a reliable source. Here is one of thier source links:
http://hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=29747&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=10&sid=94d5eaf8f7d0924380daac967812eb7b

The thread at the top of the page lists a quote by someone named "Nicole Dupree".

Here's another source listed:
http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=28071&sid=89065f00cc3fb387d38c2e024ed38175

And this poster with the name "Mimiplastique". That sounds like a screen name or something. Does anyone know if this linked forum has reliable people as sources?


lol i didnt notice that but i definately thought it was scary how much information that has been posted on this board was on that site... not that what the information was legit or not... just that they had so much info
They even linked an HA cock shot:

Hontas is also active on porn fansites like hungangels.com, and has posted a ‘cock shot’ there:
http://www.hungangels.com/board/files/cockshot_154.jpg

Luckily the hotlink does not post elsewhere. So this is a "porn fansite" eh?

[CaptainGeech]

Wow. I skimmed through one of the threads mentioned in the article(40+ pages). Mimi totally bitchslapped brenda. Posting pictures and talking mad shit.

http://hungangels.com/board/files/mimisretarded_150.jpg

[Coroner]

This is just sad.

[Ryz]

Wow. I skimmed through one of the threads mentioned in the article(40+ pages). Mimi totally bitchslapped brenda. Posting pictures and talking mad shit.

http://hungangels.com/board/files/mimisretarded_150.jpg I'm still reading that thread. I'm like at page 15 rofl

[CaptainGeech]

Wow. I skimmed through one of the threads mentioned in the article(40+ pages). Mimi totally bitchslapped brenda. Posting pictures and talking mad shit.

http://hungangels.com/board/files/mimisretarded_150.jpg I'm still reading that thread. I'm like at page 15 rofl

lol. I threw in the towel. But from my skimming it seems like it pretty much stays the same for the additional 25+ pages.

[Nicole Dupre]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfjVLryvPSo

Start watching at 1:20. Alright, Darth Vader aka Hontas Farmer. LMFAO

[tsntx]

lmao... actually that pic of that black rupaul barbie holding a shoe is mine.... i posted it in reference to mimi and that train video on youtube

[BLKGSXR]

lmao... actually that pic of that black rupaul barbie holding a shoe is mine.... i posted it in reference to mimi and that train video on youtubeyou talking about the one where shes yelling at a chubby motherfucker? That shit is guts. Shes like get off here we'll squabble

[Nicole Dupre]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inAmClYkWko

Look at the big brain on Brenda!?! LMAO Bitch, wtf did you teach us about physics here?

[Nicole Dupre]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUKivZjYWrg

Oh, lord. lol

[CaptainGeech]

lmao... actually that pic of that black rupaul barbie holding a shoe is mine.... i posted it in reference to mimi and that train video on youtube

lol. Sorry about that. Meant to give you credit. Awesome job :D That was some funny shit.

[DL_NL]

Hmmm, unless you're some kind of brutal mass-murderer you shouldn't be treated like this and exposed online. I wonder what could possess anyone to pursue someone so relentlessly.

A couple of dumb comments online and a false claim of having a degree shouldn't warrant such a hatchet job IMO. The maker is at least as warped a personality as Brenda, if not more so.

[2009AD]

Damn. Did Hontas shit on your cereal or something? You got mad hate for H. Farmer.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUKivZjYWrg

Oh, lord. lol


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inAmClYkWko

Look at the big brain on Brenda!?! LMAO Bitch, wtf did you teach us about physics here?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfjVLryvPSo

Start watching at 1:20. Alright, Darth Vader aka Hontas Farmer. LMFAO


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whp_AKgJ_c0

Is it just me, or is she batshit nuts? Wtf was the point of that video? lol ;)

Brenda, you're so coldly analytical, yet so... aimless... as usual. lol Btw, your voice is NOT especially feminine, so I can't believe you'd read anyone on their voice.

[phobun]

Hmmm, unless you're some kind of brutal mass-murderer you shouldn't be treated like this and exposed online. I wonder what could possess anyone to pursue someone so relentlessly.

A couple of dumb comments online and a false claim of having a degree shouldn't warrant such a hatchet job IMO. The maker is at least as warped a personality as Brenda, if not more so.I agree that this attack is unwarranted.

It requires no skill to spot the incoherence in the claims about education, work, religion and politics. It is not easy to understand what motivates an eccentric individual to seek a public persona. But to try and viciously humiliate and hurt her, unprovoked, suggests (to me) that her attackers have their own psychopathology.

[SarahG]

Hmmm, unless you're some kind of brutal mass-murderer you shouldn't be treated like this and exposed online. I wonder what could possess anyone to pursue someone so relentlessly.

A couple of dumb comments online and a false claim of having a degree shouldn't warrant such a hatchet job IMO. The maker is at least as warped a personality as Brenda, if not more so.I agree that this attack is unwarranted.

It requires no skill to spot the incoherence in the claims about education, work, religion and politics. It is not easy to understand what motivates an eccentric individual to seek a public persona. But to try and viciously humiliate and hurt her, unprovoked, suggests (to me) that her attackers have their own psychopathology.

The page (http://www.intersexualite.org/Hontas-Farmer.html) is a bit of a disorganized mess, its like the author (whoever they were) couldn't figure out where they were going with what they were saying, i.e. this passage (below) which talks about her appearance, then online friends lists, then appearances again... it comes off like the ramblings of someone who is delirious.



Those videos give a glimpse of Hontas's persona and presentation. They reveal that Hontas has not had any significant electrolysis. Hontas has visible masculine facial hair, and doesn't conceal a five-o'clock shadow with makeup (see photos below). This is unusual for someone claiming to be MtF "transsexual", because facial hair removal is of the highest priority for most such women.

Hontas also reveals that J. Michael Bailey is Hontas’ friend in this link:
http://www.scientificblogging.com/profile/hFarmer

Thus it’s no surprise that Hontas promotes the highly pathologizing BBL two-type theoretical model of transsexualism. Hontas self-identifies as being of the "homosexual transsexual" type, basing this on claims of extreme femininity since childhood, great beauty, etc. However, this claim appears to be inconsistent with observable evidence such as Hontas's presentation (as in the following photos and the video links above and below).

Once, just fucking once- I would like to see an ideological rift in the trans "community" discussed by trans people without either a- intentionally using incorrect pronouns, b- intentionally using the wrong names, or c- resorting to cheap shots about peoples' appearances.

Is that so fucking hard!? Really!?

You can't pretend to be for "trans issues" or some ethical high-road if you're doing the kind of things we yell at the fundies for... no matter how disgusting you may find someone's position on a given thing to be.

Is that so much to ask for? It's not like anyone's being expected to memorize the Leviathan here.

Sadly the only thing that surprises me about this thread are how many people are claiming to be shocked by it. I.e. comments like "I wonder what could possess anyone to pursue someone so relentlessly" I find confusing since, it should be pretty clear to anyone who lurks on trans forums often enough, that this sort of thing happens quite frequently in the so-called "trans community."

People talk about how evil various non-trans groups are, but at the end of the day a good portion of the outtings (i.e. people who can't pass belligerently attacking and outting those who live in stealth & pass), violence (i.e. the whole Sylvia Boots case), and stalkings (I can think of examples but none that I'd want to post publicly on HA) are from within the community.

This is, in my opinion, part of a much bigger problem that plagues the entire LGBT "community." Just look at all the gay activists that encourage belligerently outting other gay people for "working against the movement." The problem with this, of course, is defining what exactly IS working against the movement. Does it take simply being a republican? Does it mean working for a company that lobbies against marriage rights? Does it mean NOT doing something (like "not being a democrat")? Does it mean requiring everyone to be "out and proud" at protests? Allowing those sorts of attacks at all only allows people to twist it to fulfill their own personal agendas, and when that happens it ceases to be about whats hurtful or helpful for the movement, and instead becomes a tool of personal vendetta where people get attacked simply for insulting the wrong "activist."

[Nicole Dupre]

Damn. Did Hontas shit on your cereal or something? You got mad hate for H. Farmer.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUKivZjYWrg

Oh, lord. lol


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inAmClYkWko

Look at the big brain on Brenda!?! LMAO Bitch, wtf did you teach us about physics here?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfjVLryvPSo

Start watching at 1:20. Alright, Darth Vader aka Hontas Farmer. LMFAO


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whp_AKgJ_c0

Is it just me, or is she batshit nuts? Wtf was the point of that video? lol ;)

Brenda, you're so coldly analytical, yet so... aimless... as usual. lol Btw, your voice is NOT especially feminine, so I can't believe you'd read anyone on their voice.If she's a pet cause of yours, you can have her.

[2009AD]

Damn. Did Hontas shit on your cereal or something? You got mad hate for H. Farmer. If she's a pet cause of yours, you can have her.

Nope, she's not a "pet cause" of mine, but I see you do like to pile up on people.

[Nicole Dupre]

Mad hate? Wtf do you know about me? You looked up number and decided you wanted to "bond"? Please. The bitch is nuts. How many videos do you make where you essentially think out loud about nonsense, but call it educational? Get a clue.
And wtf do you know about if or when I "hate"?

For someone who crawled up tsbrenda's ass, you're pretty loose with the judgments about my posts.

[Nicole Dupre]

Anyway, I do not "hate" Hontas, but she has made enough of an ass of herself directly to me that I'll think whatever I want. Ok?

You must be a Muslim or something, or you just love her. Either way, rock on. lol

[2009AD]

Mad hate? Wtf do you know about me? You looked up number and decided you wanted to "bond"? Please. The bitch is nuts. How many videos do you make where you essentially think out loud about nonsense, but call it educational? Get a clue.
And wtf do you know about if or when I "hate"?

For someone who crawled up tsbrenda's ass, you're pretty loose with the judgments about my posts.

Crawled up Brenda's ass? Hardly. I just made the observation that Hontas has done nothing to you and yet you jump all over Hontas's ass.

[phobun]

Usually, when a TG hates on another TG, it is usually motivated by petty jealousy about either appearance, money, success or sanity.

It takes no skill to throw rocks at Brenda. The hypocrisy around here is unbelievable.

[Nicole Dupre]

Mad hate? Wtf do you know about me? You looked up number and decided you wanted to "bond"? Please. The bitch is nuts. How many videos do you make where you essentially think out loud about nonsense, but call it educational? Get a clue.
And wtf do you know about if or when I "hate"?

For someone who crawled up tsbrenda's ass, you're pretty loose with the judgments about my posts.

Crawled up Brenda's ass? Hardly. I just made the observation that Hontas has done nothing to you and yet you jump all over Hontas's ass.


That's how you see it. I read the article, came across the vids, and posted them. Anything else, officer?

And when did tsbrenda ever talk to you? Because I 've communicated with Hontas, on and off on this forum, for YEARS. I was originally supportive of her. Did you even know that? Well,now I'm not. I think she's brain dead.

But is that against the rules? Do I have to like her?

I even fucking apologized if I was offending anyone by saying what I think of her. I don't even think she's a bad person. But she's WHACK!!!!

[dgs925]

That web page is fucked up. Obviously Brenda/Hontas has issues, hell I never really took her seriously anyway, but the main message I get from that site is how crazy the author is. Brenda isn't the only person cyber-stalked on there, a few other people get the same treatment.

[Nicole Dupre]

Usually, when a TG hates on another TG, it is usually motivated by petty jealousy about either appearance, money, success or sanity.

It takes no skill to throw rocks at Brenda. The hypocrisy around here is unbelievable.

And usually closet case cock bandits like you talk about shit they nothing about. Now why don't you and Team Ramrod go get yourselves a lil' "primary" boofoo action action and STFU?

[LittleGuy]

Usually, when a TG hates on another TG, it is usually motivated by petty jealousy about either appearance, money, success or sanity.

It takes no skill to throw rocks at Brenda. The hypocrisy around here is unbelievable.

that explains why you hate on women who are preop...

[Nicole Dupre]

Btw, I THANK GOD I am not a "Hontas". No jealousy here, Phlobuns.

[Nicole Dupre]

Usually, when a TG hates on another TG, it is usually motivated by petty jealousy about either appearance, money, success or sanity.

It takes no skill to throw rocks at Brenda. The hypocrisy around here is unbelievable.

that explains why you hate on women who are preop...



Amazing, cuz I just had breakfast with a very close POST OP friend, jackass. Wtf are you talking about?

edit* Sorry Little Guy. Brain farty! :D

[Nicole Dupre]

But TY, LG. Phobun DOES hate pre-ops. Jealousy perhaps? lol

[LittleGuy]

Usually, when a TG hates on another TG, it is usually motivated by petty jealousy about either appearance, money, success or sanity.

It takes no skill to throw rocks at Brenda. The hypocrisy around here is unbelievable.

that explains why you hate on women who are preop...



Amazing, cuz I just had breakfast with a very close POST OP friend, jackass. Wtf are you talking about?

edit* Sorry Little Guy. Brain farty! :D

ummm i was talking to phobon. he has a hatred for women who are preop. thanks for telling me how you really feel :? :shock:

[2009AD]

You must be a Muslim or something, or you just love her. Either way, rock on. lol

Yea, that's it, you got me. I'm a Muslim....or something and I'm in love with her.

Next thing, you'll be accusing me of trying to kill you. Get over yourself babe. Hontas is a whack job, but while pile on? Does it make you feel superior?

[Nicole Dupre]

Anyway, I officially think Hontas is a FOOL. Sue me, but that's about it.

Now I'll just let 2009AD and Phobun police the rest of thread. Do your thing, guys...

[Nicole Dupre]

You must be a Muslim or something, or you just love her. Either way, rock on. lol

Yea, that's it, you got me. I'm a Muslim....or something and I'm in love with her.

Next thing, you'll be accusing me of trying to kill you. Get over yourself babe. Hontas is a whack job, but while pile on? Does it make you feel superior?

No. Making fun of ts brenda does, "babe".

[yodajazz]

Hmmm, unless you're some kind of brutal mass-murderer you shouldn't be treated like this and exposed online. I wonder what could possess anyone to pursue someone so relentlessly.

A couple of dumb comments online and a false claim of having a degree shouldn't warrant such a hatchet job IMO. The maker is at least as warped a personality as Brenda, if not more so.I agree that this attack is unwarranted.

It requires no skill to spot the incoherence in the claims about education, work, religion and politics. It is not easy to understand what motivates an eccentric individual to seek a public persona. But to try and viciously humiliate and hurt her, unprovoked, suggests (to me) that her attackers have their own psychopathology.

The page (http://www.intersexualite.org/Hontas-Farmer.html) is a bit of a disorganized mess, its like the author (whoever they were) couldn't figure out where they were going with what they were saying, i.e. this passage (below) which talks about her appearance, then online friends lists, then appearances again... it comes off like the ramblings of someone who is delirious.



Those videos give a glimpse of Hontas's persona and presentation. They reveal that Hontas has not had any significant electrolysis. Hontas has visible masculine facial hair, and doesn't conceal a five-o'clock shadow with makeup (see photos below). This is unusual for someone claiming to be MtF "transsexual", because facial hair removal is of the highest priority for most such women.

Hontas also reveals that J. Michael Bailey is Hontas’ friend in this link:
http://www.scientificblogging.com/profile/hFarmer

Thus it’s no surprise that Hontas promotes the highly pathologizing BBL two-type theoretical model of transsexualism. Hontas self-identifies as being of the "homosexual transsexual" type, basing this on claims of extreme femininity since childhood, great beauty, etc. However, this claim appears to be inconsistent with observable evidence such as Hontas's presentation (as in the following photos and the video links above and below).

Once, just fucking once- I would like to see an ideological rift in the trans "community" discussed by trans people without either a- intentionally using incorrect pronouns, b- intentionally using the wrong names, or c- resorting to cheap shots about peoples' appearances.

Is that so fucking hard!? Really!?

You can't pretend to be for "trans issues" or some ethical high-road if you're doing the kind of things we yell at the fundies for... no matter how disgusting you may find someone's position on a given thing to be.

Is that so much to ask for? It's not like anyone's being expected to memorize the Leviathan here.

Sadly the only thing that surprises me about this thread are how many people are claiming to be shocked by it. I.e. comments like "I wonder what could possess anyone to pursue someone so relentlessly" I find confusing since, it should be pretty clear to anyone who lurks on trans forums often enough, that this sort of thing happens quite frequently in the so-called "trans community."

People talk about how evil various non-trans groups are, but at the end of the day a good portion of the outtings (i.e. people who can't pass belligerently attacking and outting those who live in stealth & pass), violence (i.e. the whole Sylvia Boots case), and stalkings (I can think of examples but none that I'd want to post publicly on HA) are from within the community.

This is, in my opinion, part of a much bigger problem that plagues the entire LGBT "community." Just look at all the gay activists that encourage belligerently outting other gay people for "working against the movement." The problem with this, of course, is defining what exactly IS working against the movement. Does it take simply being a republican? Does it mean working for a company that lobbies against marriage rights? Does it mean NOT doing something (like "not being a democrat")? Does it mean requiring everyone to be "out and proud" at protests? Allowing those sorts of attacks at all only allows people to twist it to fulfill their own personal agendas, and when that happens it ceases to be about whats hurtful or helpful for the movement, and instead becomes a tool of personal vendetta where people get attacked simply for insulting the wrong "activist."

Wow! This is exactly what I have been trying to say in my own words, for the longest. SarahG, I got much love for you, whether you know it or not.

Here's example of what you speak of, but I don't mean Jennifers post here.

hontas farmer :lol:

Brenda's male name was outed here on this forum by another transwoman, as well as an unflattering cock picture. Think it has no impact? I once saw a YouTube video of three trans women in NYC that used Brenda's male name in a mocking fashion in a cafe there, far from Brenda's Chicago home. When I asked Brenda about that she said it was ok, but I saw it as disrespect which is allowed to pass as entertainment.

I did see a video in which Brenda acknowledged her lack of social skills as part of a diagnosis called "Aspberger's Syndrome". So she is at least admitting to some of her behaviors as having poor social skills.

I consider her to be a friend.

[Nicole Dupre]

And lets be clear. One of the biggest divide and conquer techniques that can be employed against transpeople is this primary, secondary TS stuff of Blanchard's. Philosophically it's a rogue offshoot of the HBT, but it clearly sees a pre-op sex worker lifestyle as secondary and untrue. (Brenda is a proponent of it, and I am NOT.) It's about as valid as saying that slutty GGs are untrue or secondary women. It's bullshit because when I was evaluated for HRT, and before I was a sexworker, I WAS DIAGNOSED AS PRIMARY. That tells me that Blanchard has a flawed theory.

[DL_NL]

Sadly the only thing that surprises me about this thread are how many people are claiming to be shocked by it. I.e. comments like "I wonder what could possess anyone to pursue someone so relentlessly" I find confusing since, it should be pretty clear to anyone who lurks on trans forums often enough, that this sort of thing happens quite frequently in the so-called "trans community."
Does the fact that it happens more frequently preclude one from wondering why?

[TsVanessa69]

Wow, word travels fast around here. I was actually trying to find HA and I found this on acident. Then I called you know who, and the rest is history.
If this was last year this time, I would have found joy in it.
Now its kinda sad.
Every time she gets googled this will show up and it will never go away.
I just hope she can get help dealing with her issues and maybe leave that troubled past behind.

[SarahG]

One of the biggest divide and conquer techniques that can be employed against transpeople is this primary, secondary TS stuff of Blanchard's.

Exactly.

Primary & secondary terms are, quite frankly- complete and utter bullshit.

Here we have two terms that offer absolutely NO treatment advantage in the clinical setting. So why even have them?

The language used to define the two terms is intentionally as vague as it is so that the terms can be applied at will, thus their real purpose is to give shrinks & doctors more gatekeeping power.

Now if a therapist thinks transitioning is evil, all they have to do is impulsively say "well, you're really a secondary TS since you first realized you were a girl at 6 years old instead of before your 5th birthday." This is just an example, they could also use orientation, or any number of other things... and there is nothing forcing them to be consistent patient to patient. Any trans person with a primary diagnosis could very easily be relabeled as secondary if their therapist tried to do so.


It's bullshit because when I was evaluated for HRT, and before I was a sexworker, I WAS DIAGNOSED AS PRIMARY. That tells me that Blanchard has a flawed theory.

There are a lot of things to show the canadian policymakers are off their mark with their theories. Just look at AG theory and all the ways that falls short at explaining away TS's, TV's, and AG's. At best they don't even try to account for the existence of FtM TS's or GG TV's.

It doesn't take a psy degree to realize something is wrong with a theory that fails to notice 1- there are far more GB tv's then GG tv's, 2- it is grossly unusual to find GG's who would embody the AG label per the way it is applied to GB's.

We see guys all the time posting on forums, email lists, and other places talking about how hard they cum when they put on hose to jerk off... but when was the last time you saw a GG make a post about how intense their orgasms are "when wearing a guy's suit"?

Then there's the whole thing about reparative therapy. Anyone who thinks they can "beat the transsexualism" out of a patient is as clueless as someone trying to cure homosexuality that way. What next, a pseudo-study saying that transsexualism should be treated with prayer, leeches, the rack, and bloodlettings? :banghead

[2009AD]

Anyway, I officially think Hontas is a FOOL. Sue me, but that's about it.

Now I'll just let 2009AD and Phobun police the rest of thread. Do your thing, guys...

I'm not policing anything "babe." It's just pathetic when you pile on.



Wow, word travels fast around here. I was actually trying to find HA and I found this on acident.

What are you? Stupid or something? Trying to find HA? How abut typing Hungangels on Google? SMH. Pinche idiota negra.

[TsVanessa69]

Anyway, I officially think Hontas is a FOOL. Sue me, but that's about it.

Now I'll just let 2009AD and Phobun police the rest of thread. Do your thing, guys...

I'm not policing anything "babe." It's just pathetic when you pile on.



Wow, word travels fast around here. I was actually trying to find HA and I found this on acident.

What are you? Stupid or something? Trying to find HA? How abut typing Hungangels on Google? SMH. Pinche idiota negra.

Actually lame ass douchebag, I did google HA because my girlfriend I'm staying with does not use HA. And thats how I found the link in the first place.
And it kills me how stupid ass people try to speak a language they don't know.
Aside Pinche is a mexican word, not a Puerto Rican.
Asi que traga webo!

[2009AD]

Anyway, I officially think Hontas is a FOOL. Sue me, but that's about it.

Now I'll just let 2009AD and Phobun police the rest of thread. Do your thing, guys...

I'm not policing anything "babe." It's just pathetic when you pile on.



Wow, word travels fast around here. I was actually trying to find HA and I found this on acident.

What are you? Stupid or something? Trying to find HA? How abut typing Hungangels on Google? SMH. Pinche idiota negra.

Actually lame ass douchebag, I did google HA because my girlfriend I'm staying with does not use HA. And thats how I found the link in the first place.
And it kills me how stupid ass people try to speak a language they don't know.
Aside Pinche is a mexican word, not a Puerto Rican.
Asi que traga webo!

Pinche is Spanish you clown. What the hell is Webo? Is that a part of the Web? Try again mierda negra.

[Silcc69]

Uhm all spanish people speak a different kind of spanish 2009AD.

[2009AD]

Uhm all spanish people speak a different kind of spanish 2009AD.

Uhm, Slicc, I speak Spanish, don't need you to tell me that, but thanks anyways. :roll: My sweet, Black, Vanessa knew what it meant. the word "pinche" is as common in the Spanish speaking world as "puto/a."

[Silcc69]

And my name is Silcc not Slicc

[TsVanessa69]

Uhm all spanish people speak a different kind of spanish 2009AD.A typical douchebag like I said before.
Fronting like he knows spansh yet doesn't know what "webo" is, and didn't know the Puerto Ricans and mexicans use different terminology for different words.
Un maricon sucio :roll:

[Nicole Dupre]

Wow, word travels fast around here. I was actually trying to find HA and I found this on acident. Then I called you know who, and the rest is history.
If this was last year this time, I would have found joy in it.
Now its kinda sad.
Every time she gets googled this will show up and it will never go away.
I just hope she can get help dealing with her issues and maybe leave that troubled past behind.

Girl, if she's no longer who she was a year ago, that's fine by me. Beating on Mimi is never going to be ok with me, but if Mimi forgives her then I acquiesce.

But Brenda would be wise to take down all videos where she refers to herself as Hontas. She should also take down all the articles she's written about primary and secondary trannys. It's not just the google search making her look sketchy. There's plenty to see on YouTube; saying when trannys get implants and FFS, "they all become bitches"? Well now you have implants, Hontas, so who's the bitch now?

[TsVanessa69]

Uhm all spanish people speak a different kind of spanish 2009AD.

Uhm, Slicc, I speak Spanish, don't need you to tell me that, but thanks anyways. :roll: My sweet, Black, Vanessa knew what it meant. the word "pinche" is as common in the Spanish speaking world as "puto/a."
Lo siento mucho, soy latina no negro!
Y ademas soy demasiado mujer para una pelea contigo!
Asi que traga mi leche y quedate en tu lugar!
Ponka pobre!

[2009AD]

Uhm all spanish people speak a different kind of spanish 2009AD.A typical douchebag like I said before.
Fronting like he knows spansh yet doesn't know what "webo" is, and didn't know the Puerto Ricans and mexicans use different terminology for different words.
Un maricon sucio :roll:

I don't "know" Spanish, I speak, read, and write it. Again, there's no Spanish word "webo." Try again negra.

[TsVanessa69]

Uhm all spanish people speak a different kind of spanish 2009AD.A typical douchebag like I said before.
Fronting like he knows spansh yet doesn't know what "webo" is, and didn't know the Puerto Ricans and mexicans use different terminology for different words.
Un maricon sucio :roll:

I don't "know" Spanish, I speak, read, and write it. Again, there's no Spanish word "webo." Try again negra.
Wrong again Pancho Villa, in Puerto Rico the term "webo" is used to refer to your dick and balls :roll:
Asi que otra vez tu pato!

[2009AD]

Uhm all spanish people speak a different kind of spanish 2009AD.A typical douchebag like I said before.
Fronting like he knows spansh yet doesn't know what "webo" is, and didn't know the Puerto Ricans and mexicans use different terminology for different words.
Un maricon sucio :roll:

I don't "know" Spanish, I speak, read, and write it. Again, there's no Spanish word "webo." Try again negra.
Wrong again Pancho Villa, in Puerto Rico the term "webo" is used to refer to your dick and balls :roll:
Asi que otra vez tu pato!

Webo is not a Spanish word negrita. Huevos is the term for balls. Good luck with the Spanglish negra. Que mierda negra.

[TsVanessa69]

Uhm all spanish people speak a different kind of spanish 2009AD.A typical douchebag like I said before.
Fronting like he knows spansh yet doesn't know what "webo" is, and didn't know the Puerto Ricans and mexicans use different terminology for different words.
Un maricon sucio :roll:

I don't "know" Spanish, I speak, read, and write it. Again, there's no Spanish word "webo." Try again negra.
Wrong again Pancho Villa, in Puerto Rico the term "webo" is used to refer to your dick and balls :roll:
Asi que otra vez tu pato!

Webo is not a Spanish word negrita. Huevos is the term for balls. Good luck with the Spanglish negra. Que mierda negra.

No pato. En la manana hoy, yo estaba chichando con my amigo y me decia ""Mamame mi webo mami and when I started licking his balls and sucking his pretty, thic, uncut Puerto Rican bicho, he was very happy!
Asi que la mierda eres tu!
Yo aqui fumando un blunt!
Ya me voy a banarme para arreglarme para la fiesta de Allanah!

[MrsKellyPierce]

hmmmmmmm

[2009AD]

W/e you say my little negrita. You have fun.







Uhm all spanish people speak a different kind of spanish 2009AD.A typical douchebag like I said before.
Fronting like he knows spansh yet doesn't know what "webo" is, and didn't know the Puerto Ricans and mexicans use different terminology for different words.
Un maricon sucio :roll:

I don't "know" Spanish, I speak, read, and write it. Again, there's no Spanish word "webo." Try again negra.
Wrong again Pancho Villa, in Puerto Rico the term "webo" is used to refer to your dick and balls :roll:
Asi que otra vez tu pato!

Webo is not a Spanish word negrita. Huevos is the term for balls. Good luck with the Spanglish negra. Que mierda negra.

No pato. En la manana hoy, yo estaba chichando con my amigo y me decia ""Mamame mi webo mami and when I started licking his balls and sucking his pretty, thic, uncut Puerto Rican bicho, he was very happy!
Asi que la mierda eres tu!
Yo aqui fumando un blunt!
Ya me voy a banarme para arreglarme para la fiesta de Allanah!

[peggygee]

Once, just fucking once- I would like to see an ideological rift in the trans "community" discussed by trans people without either a- intentionally using incorrect pronouns, b- intentionally using the wrong names, or c- resorting to cheap shots about peoples' appearances.

Is that so fucking hard!? Really!?

You can't pretend to be for "trans issues" or some ethical high-road if you're doing the kind of things we yell at the fundies for... no matter how disgusting you may find someone's position on a given thing to be.



To me the issue at hand and the reason why the ad hominem post was
made about Brenda was because the writer disagrees with her position
on the Blanchard and Bailey theories on "autogynephilia" and the
"homosexual transsexual" to explain the causal nature of transsexuality.

Instead the the blog quickly devolved into a specious, vapid, and catty
attack on Brenda which is the typical approach in this communtiy when
people disagree with one another.

Further, I do not get the sense that the average reader of that blog is
aware or knowledgeable about the issues being discussed, but rather
that that they are "ooh, ahh, and wow-ing" because their tabloid
sensibilities have been stimulated.

If you do not agree or adhere to the Harry S. Benjamin models of
primary or secondary transsexualism, or if you do not see the validity
of the Blanchard and Bailey theories on "autogynephilia" and the
"homesexual transsexual", clearly that is your right to do so.

However, I do not feel that it is appropriate to make personal attacks on
a person about their's.

[TsVanessa69]

W/e you say my little negrita. You have fun.







Uhm all spanish people speak a different kind of spanish 2009AD.A typical douchebag like I said before.
Fronting like he knows spansh yet doesn't know what "webo" is, and didn't know the Puerto Ricans and mexicans use different terminology for different words.
Un maricon sucio :roll:

I don't "know" Spanish, I speak, read, and write it. Again, there's no Spanish word "webo." Try again negra.
Wrong again Pancho Villa, in Puerto Rico the term "webo" is used to refer to your dick and balls :roll:
Asi que otra vez tu pato!

Webo is not a Spanish word negrita. Huevos is the term for balls. Good luck with the Spanglish negra. Que mierda negra.

No pato. En la manana hoy, yo estaba chichando con my amigo y me decia ""Mamame mi webo mami and when I started licking his balls and sucking his pretty, thic, uncut Puerto Rican bicho, he was very happy!
Asi que la mierda eres tu!
Yo aqui fumando un blunt!
Ya me voy a banarme para arreglarme para la fiesta de Allanah!
I ALWAYS DO!!!

[timxxx]

That was some shady shit,one person who's definitely more squirrel shit nutty then BrendaQG(Hontas,Hfarmer etc) is the Internet stalker who put that shit together.


Who smelled it, dealt it :wink:

[Nicole Dupre]

As for the "true" concept:


The distinction between hetero crossdressers and trannys is one of the only clear ones I know of. That's easy.

Another one is whether or not you are F/T.

But once you start questioning what types of behavior are libidinal, you're stepping onto a slippery slope.

[TsVanessa69]

That was some shady shit,one person who's definitely more squirrel shit nutty then BrendaQG(Hontas,Hfarmer etc) is the Internet stalker who put that shit together.


Who smelled it, dealt it :wink:Thats so true. Mimi even used to live with Hontis and some of the stuff mentioned in the article we never knew. Crazy huh?

[muhmuh]

resorting to cheap shots about peoples' appearances.

i.e. people who can't pass belligerently attacking and outting those who live in stealth & pass

not trying to be glib here... actually thats a lie... anyway arent you kinda sorta doing the same thing there?

[SarahG]

resorting to cheap shots about peoples' appearances.

i.e. people who can't pass belligerently attacking and outting those who live in stealth & pass

not trying to be glib here... actually thats a lie... anyway arent you kinda sorta doing the same thing there?

If I've talked shit about someone's appearance, used their birth name, or intentionally used the wrong pronoun- find the post, I'd be interested in seeing it.

[muhmuh]

no such thing that i know of and if there is i sure cant be arsed to put the time into finding it
i was just trying to make a glib remark about something that is there in those 2 sentences if youre really trying to find it... apparently wasnt glib enough

[Nicole Dupre]

Primary or secondary, intersexed or not, we're the same if we become the victim of a hate crime. I see, respect, and endorse the validity of the HBS and Blanchard's research. But what bothers me is how impractical, and potentially harmful, their labels can be.

As someone who was diagnosed as both a primary TS, and who's pre HRT levels showed indications of being intersexed: I'm offended that my sexual proclivities may land me on the side of some imaginary fence. And that's about it.

[SarahG]

no such thing that i know of and if there is i sure cant be arsed to put the time into finding it
i was just trying to make a glib remark about something that is there in those 2 sentences if youre really trying to find it... apparently wasnt glib enough

Let me put it another way, I say whatever is on my mind, whenever its on my mind. I'm blunt, direct, and don't censor myself- so I do a good job at offending people (by accident or not). If I think someone is off base about something, especially if it involves trans stuff- I have no problem going back and forward with them arguing about the issue, sometimes even until either 1- everyone agrees to disagree, or 2- one of us decides we're wrong.

Some people might interpret it as an attack, I suppose, but if you don't want people questioning your views on certain issues, then you shouldn't talk about them where a response is to be expected like on a forum.

But even in the most heated of arguments I've participated in, to the best of my knowledge I've never belligerently used a wrong pronoun, or a birth name or anything like that to hurt someone, let alone tared them down for their appearance. Do I think I'm better than anyone else? No, I see it more as being pointless and intellectually dishonest to resort to something so irrelevant and cheap. I see using cheap shots like "oooh, but I see a 5'o clock shadow so you must not be TS-enough/you must be really manly since I can see facial hair" to be about as rewarding & purposeful as kicking over a quadriplegic and then beating him up while he's on the ground. What the hell is this, 1st grade? Are we in preschool again? Because that's about how mature it is.

[SarahG]

Primary or secondary, intersexed or not, we're the same if we become the victim of a hate crime. I see, respect, and endorse the validity of the HBS and Blanchard's research. But what bothers me is how impractical, and potentially harmful, their labels can be.


But it's not just the labels that are harmful.

What a lot of people don't realize is that the "research" conducted at clinics like Clarke's includes more than defining or redefining conditions using hurtful labels- they allegedly engage in reparative therapy where they try to literally "beat" the transsexualism out of patients.

You know all those stories about shrinks using electro shock, torture, lobotomies, and heavy duty psyc drugs to try to "cure" gays using reparative therapy? That's what the Clarke institute specializes in for tg patients (well, minus the lobotomies so I hear). The reason why they are an addiction clinic today (dealing with patients suffering from substance abuse) is because they used to treat tg "conditions" as if they are an addiction and would use these nasty treatments against trans patients. And yes, that even includes (allegedly) transgender children.

This is why (http://www.bilerico.com/2008/12/the_gender_gulag_voices_of_the_asylum.php) academic theory about transsexualism run amok is such an evil thing.

Did you know one of the shrinks the APA had the balls to use as a consultant in writing the DSMIV was (allegedly) the guy in charge of South Africa's apartheid era operation aimed at using reparative therapy to cure homosexuality? This medical project would take conscripted soldiers, people who didn't even want to serve in their military, and would screen them to see if they "might" be gay. SO's, military Champlains, and so forth would identify likely-gay soldiers who would then be assigned to this military hospital where they would be drugged, electrocuted, and as a method of last resort; given hrt & srs to "cure" them. When apartheid fell the dr (known as "doctor shock") allegedly in charge, Dr Levin, fled to Canada where he still to this day practices medicine. When story of his South African past broke in the British and South African press, he responded by suing newspapers to silence the story according to some websites (I haven't pulled the cases to see what they state)- and doing so successfully prevented the story from being printed in North American papers (it did however, find its way online- you can google him to find some stories (http://www.pfc.org.uk/node/725) on the incidents, which is how I stumbled upon it).

[timxxx]

That was some shady shit,one person who's definitely more squirrel shit nutty then BrendaQG(Hontas,Hfarmer etc) is the Internet stalker who put that shit together.


Who smelled it, dealt it :wink:Thats so true. Mimi even used to live with Hontis and some of the stuff mentioned in the article we never knew. Crazy huh?
I hear you,but she couldn't have done that alone,this is some tag team shit.

[tsntx]

That was some shady shit,one person who's definitely more squirrel shit nutty then BrendaQG(Hontas,Hfarmer etc) is the Internet stalker who put that shit together.


Who smelled it, dealt it :wink:Thats so true. Mimi even used to live with Hontis and some of the stuff mentioned in the article we never knew. Crazy huh?
I hear you,but she couldn't have done that alone,this is some tag team shit.

after reading it i dont feel mimi put it together... i feel its mimi's and other ppl from THIS boards public/ posted conversations that the OP of that article used to make the profile of brenda that i linked

mimi wouldnt spend the time to put something like this together... not w/ links and references and all that bs... plus i dont think her and brenda have beef anymore

[Nicole Dupre]

mimi wouldnt spend the time to put something like this together... not w/ links and references and all that bs... plus i dont think her and brenda have beef anymore

Yeah, blaming Mimi is nonsense. Brenda was being nosy and reading some bitch's apartment decor in those articles. Her wanting to dabble in so many areas, while still trying to escort, just might send up red flags in breeder world. ;)

[Silcc69]

Could this be the workin of RueMue aka Achim?

[SarahG]

Could this be the workin of RueMue aka Achim?

It's probably just a trans girl(s) who don't like Bailey or his supporters.

This wouldn't be beyond what I'd expect from some of the trans extremists out there.

Also if you go to the web address of the site its hosted on,
http://www.intersexualite.org/

What you find is an intersexed activist/lobbyist group of some kind. So if I had to bet on it, I would bet on the author being trans or IS or both.

[Felicia Katt]

Here is all you need to know about Bailey's "theory"

http://www.conservapedia.com/Transgender_activism

Its been adopted by the conservatives so they can continue to treat this community with disrespect.

FK

[BrendaQG]

Wow someone brought this up as if it were new.

I actually posted something about this... on February 16th 2009 (http://www.hungangels.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=41883&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=curtis+hinkle&start=60) No one seemed to notice but I recall getting some surprisingly supportive private messages.

It is heartening to find that with few exceptions most people who saw that saw through it, as the baseless ad hominem it was. That includes most people in Chicago I showed it to. Basically the writer of this lost a logical argument and responded like a three year old on the playground.

My comprehensive response to that is at this website. (http://sites.google.com/site/hontasfarmer/hontas-aisha-farmers-skeleton-sheet) In short the claims made there are ridiculous on the face of them. If what was said in there was true I would have been in jail for many years. On Wikipedia one has to be neutral and civil to whoever shows up there. That means if James Cantor and Andrea James show up, which they did, I have to be civil to both of them, which I was....for the most part. As for those pictures they were all from around Ramadan last year. I go in hijab at that time and do not wear any makeup at all. Finally for any law enforcement that read this board, and I'm sure they do, it's 100% true that I have never prostituted myself* what OII wrote on that is totally accurate. :roll:


Frankly I think that websites "reporting" about someone like me who is not a public figure might meet the definition of cyber stalking. (http://www.haltabuse.org/resources/laws/illinois.shtml) I have been urged by many to sue, to report this or do something. I figure that would only draw more attention to it, and allow the author to play the victim of some other crazy conspiracy I am supposed to be part of.

The person who wrote it is not secret. It was not Mimi. It was written mostly by one Curtis Hinkle (http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=Curtis+Hinkle&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) of the Organizeation Intersexes International. He wrote it because I called him out on my blog. (http://www.scientificblogging.com/quantum_gravity/blog/curtis_e_hinkles_denial_of_the_existence_of_transg ender_children_my_rebuttal) I called him out for writing


Since as we have discussed, transsexualism cannot be identified in childhood, it’s abusive that this change of transsexualism in adulthood to GID of adulthood uses homosexual boys to pathologize adult transsexuals. -Curtis Hinkel of OII (http://www.scientificblogging.com/quantum_gravity/blog/curtis_e_hinkles_denial_of_the_existence_of_transg ender_children_my_rebuttal)

He did not like that.

Then there are transsexual's who do not like to be called transsexuals who prefer to call themselves intersexed "Women born transsexual with HBS". So called Harry Benjamin Syndrome. I have called them out in other public forums and on my blog lately. I called them out on their classist racist and ethnocentric view of themselves in relation to other transwomen. Specifically they look down on those of us who are pre/non-op who have had to hustle for money. (They would look down on and condemn everyone on HA.) (http://www.scientificblogging.com/quantum_gravity/blog/harry_benjamin_syndrome_revealed_naked_bigotry_som e_transwomen_against_others) That is another reason for that personal attack. People who think that way love OII because it's an intersex organization which accepts them and HBS as intersexed.

Which brings me to why Nicole posted this. Ooops correction she did not. But she has been up on this thread like it was her creation. My apologies, my mistake. :-)

I will not be taking anything down, and as far as looks are concerned everyone has different taste. If I don't appeal to someone or the other it's not a big deal to me. Because I am happy with myself and no one is attractive to everyone.

]Since we are on the subject of my looks take a look at my entry in Victoria's Secret's "Love my body" contest and vote for me if you are so inclined. ([url=http://www.bodybyvictoria.com/#/Gallery/720)* The point of which was to write a short thing about why you love your body and yourself, post some pictures. It's more of a writing/wit contest than a beauty contest. So far as I can tell the front runner is a old lady, with a cane, with a backdrop to make it look like she's surfing. I even voted for her.

That's all I have to say about this. It's total BS anyone could dig around in anyone's past and find dirt on them if they have lived any kind of life and make up a site like that. If you who read that found it funny don't be outraged when It happens to you.

*Their website seems to be having difficulties right now.
**I have something I could post about someone here in Chicago, someone you all likely have seen a picture of once but not on HA. A video they did where they describe how when they were a shemale they prostituted themself. But I am not going to sink to their level.

[Nicole Dupre]

LOL. Girl, I think you should take them down because of what you say, not what you look like. The statements about "trannys all become bitches after their tit-jobs & FFS" is dumb. But the article has links to you being "Hontis" and to you being "Brenda" on YouTube. That makes you look sketchy imho, whether you are or not.

[BrendaQG]

LOL. Girl, I think you should take them down because of what you say, not what you look like. The statements about "trannys all become bitches after their tit-jobs & FFS" is dumb. But the article has links to you being "Hontis" and to you being "Brenda" on YouTube. That makes you look sketchy imho, whether you are or not.


You never knew a girl who got her surgery and then suddenly was too good to speak? For some girls it's the implants, for others it's the FFS, and we all have known people who go post op then want to act like their shit don't smell.

If that comment rubbed someone the wrong way, because they thought it was about them, they need to check themselves.

About the names. Having different names on different websites is a basic security measure. It's just like having a different password on different websites. It keeps people who aren't hard core creepy cyber stalkers like Hinkel from easily tracing my online movements.

[Nicole Dupre]

LOL. Girl, I think you should take them down because of what you say, not what you look like. The statements about "trannys all become bitches after their tit-jobs & FFS" is dumb. But the article has links to you being "Hontis" and to you being "Brenda" on YouTube. That makes you look sketchy imho, whether you are or not.


You never knew a girl who got her surgery and then suddenly was too good to speak? For some girls it's the implants, for others it's the FFS, and we all have known people who go post op then want to act like their shit don't smell.

If that comment rubbed someone the wrong way, because they thought it was about them, they need to check themselves.

It made you look jealous. Catch it.

[BrendaQG]

LOL. Girl, I think you should take them down because of what you say, not what you look like. The statements about "trannys all become bitches after their tit-jobs & FFS" is dumb. But the article has links to you being "Hontis" and to you being "Brenda" on YouTube. That makes you look sketchy imho, whether you are or not.


You never knew a girl who got her surgery and then suddenly was too good to speak? For some girls it's the implants, for others it's the FFS, and we all have known people who go post op then want to act like their shit don't smell.

If that comment rubbed someone the wrong way, because they thought it was about them, they need to check themselves.

It made you look jealous. Catch it.

No. But I guess it could be taken that way. :-/ I stand by it. As jealous as it may have made me look it is none the less true about some, but not all girls. I never said all.

[Nicole Dupre]

You're up to all kinds of shit I don't really care about; getting all Darth Vadar on us in the news. But that's your T. lol

But you ARE indeed pro-Baily, because I got this from one of your "articles" a minute ago.

Bailey is your friend. Correct?

[BrendaQG]

Being a "friend" on that website simply makes me aware of when he post an article or when someone comments on one of his articles. That's all. It has nothing equal to say "subscribing" to or "watching" a certain blog. "Friendship" is all it has.

Unless you count the 1'st Annual Clarke/Northwestern Clique Barbque? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:James_Cantor#Androphilia_gynephilia_VfD) note the sarcasm.

[Nicole Dupre]

http://joanneproctor-hbs.blogspot.com/2009/05/politics-psychiatric-theories-camh.html


They mention you here. What your involvement with Cantor?

[JeniferTS]

detective dupre, how yer doing.

[BrendaQG]

My only role with cantor is from Wikipedia. Both he and Andrea James collaborated with me to write the article there entitled "homosexual transsexual". I worked to address the concerns of both of them and tried my best to strike a balance between them.

Don't believe me.

This is the editing history of the page. (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Homosexual_transsexual&limit=500&action=history) I created it, before me there was only a page on Autogynephilia. For better or worse the other part of Blanchard's theory was not mentioned at all. No negative mention, no positive mention, as far was Wikipedia said one would think that he only spoke of Autogynephilia and left straight transwomen alone. I changed that.

I did most of the editing as Cantor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:James_Cantor) and Andrea James (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jokestress) were both judged by the Wikipedia community to have conflicts of interest. Both of them have made a small career over this issue. Read the talk page and see for yourself. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Homosexual_transsexual) An example of one of our discussions. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Homosexual_transsexual#Homosexual_transsexual _.22Used_in_psychology.22.3F)


You have to look deeper than the headline people.

[Nicole Dupre]

detective dupre, how yer doing.LOL. Doing all right, mama. ;)

I just read the link TSNTX posted and was kinda nauseated. :P I don't care who Hontis is this week. But she ought to stick to one identity and gender, and take it from there. Maybe she is in the lab, taking off the Muslim gear and putting on the lab coat. ;)

But what she's saying about sexworkers is purposely misleading. :lies What she's saying is that HOMOSEXUALS should not be looked down on for escorting. Something is wrong with that picture if Hontis claims to be a primary TS who respects Bailey.

[BrendaQG]

What have I said about being a Primary TS who supports Bailey?

In order to complain about his talk about so called "homosexual" transsexuals one has to first admit that he could have been partially on the nose.

Why do so many of us escort?

Are we especially suited? Hell no!

Do we have especially hard times finding gainful employment. Hell yes.

But it is true the rate (percentage % of our number) of sex work among us is higher than the general population by a factor of like 3. It would be foolish to pretend that was not so.

But It seems that's not enough. I have to kiss the asses of whatever white transwoman shows up. Take a look at this one comment I responded to on Bailey's blog. (http://www.scientificblogging.com/comments/18244/Re_Michael_Jackson_Erotic_Identity_Disorder)


Good old J. Michael Bailey seems to have found yet another target for his anal millinery. Only this time, the target isn't even alive anymore to defend himself. (For that matter, he's not even buried as of yet, which really makes me suspect the timing of this article as pure attention seeking.)

I took note of the neat little tie-in with one of your previous works, the whole autogynephilia thing, something you came up with by interviewing a half dozen or so crossdressers in a Chicago gay bar without even letting them know what they were being interviewed for. EXCELLENT scientific work there! You still haven't clued in as to what gender transitioning is all about, have you? Here's a clue-by-four...it's not about sex or 'getting off', it's about who we are inside, that sense of self...it's about IDENTITY! Yet you seem to think we're all a bunch of pervs. I didn't transition so that I could lose my family and my kids. I'm damn lucky my employer allowed me to transition on the job, and funded everything. This would be unusual for a civilian employer to do, let alone the Canadian military. But they see the value in keeping a qualified technician in place, something I suspect they wouldn't do for a sexual deviant.

Now you're doing this. What's your real agenda here, Mikey? Are you hiding something, maybe trying to deflect any unwanted attention away from yourself? Get a life. Trans folk have had enough of yours and Blanchard's crap, and we're starting to fight back, as you might have noticed.-Natalie on an article by Bailey the subject of which was Michael Jackson

In response basically wrote that those ladies were not cross dressers, and that most of the transwomen directly written about by Bailey were not called autogynephilic. (http://www.scientificblogging.com/comments/18258/Natalie_you_are_so_wrong%C2%A0_It)

Should I have just let that cross dressers remark slide. Those ladies he wrote of and labeled "homosexual" in his book, most of the transsexuals what were written of by the way, are NOT cross dressers. However some would have had you believe that calling BS on that particular individual implies support for Bailey.

[Nicole Dupre]

But It seems that's not enough. I have to kiss the asses of whatever white transwoman shows up. You ought to learn not to play the fool so well, 24/7, and that way you won't develop inferiority complexes - like the one you just indicated you have by saying stupid shit about "whatever white transwoman shows up".

Bitch, start cleaning up your act to blend in with SANE HUMANS ANYWHERE, ya Droopy Dog lookin' ho.:roll:

http://thedroopyfund.com/images/droopy.jpg

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

You never knew a girl who got her surgery and then suddenly was too good to speak? For some girls it's the implants, for others it's the FFS, and we all have known people who go post op then want to act like their shit don't smell.



I agree.

Didn't Kelly Shore had this type of bad treatment here awhile ago (from a few girls with surge) where she said the same exact thing? ;)

~Kisses.

HTG

[Nicole Dupre]

You never knew a girl who got her surgery and then suddenly was too good to speak? For some girls it's the implants, for others it's the FFS, and we all have known people who go post op then want to act like their shit don't smell.



Do you think your eccentric behavior might have any bearing on you getting those reactions? If not, how do you feel now that you have implants? Is it an improvement, or were you fine before? Do you have any sense of accomplishment?

But you are on hormones for a while now, right? What made you stop for so long? Did you feel like a woman when you were not on hormones? As I remember, you said you resembled Lenin.

[BrendaQG]

You never knew a girl who got her surgery and then suddenly was too good to speak? For some girls it's the implants, for others it's the FFS, and we all have known people who go post op then want to act like their shit don't smell.



Do you think your eccentric behavior might have any bearing on you getting those reactions? If not, how do you feel now that you have implants? Is it an improvement, or were you fine before? Do you have any sense of accomplishment?

Eccentric behavior. No. But I do think that my choice of religion, which some don't seem to approve of, has contributed. My choice of not wanting to join the lynch mob in relation to Bailey has contributed. Those people who would want to dictate what I should think or feel are IMO worse than people who get all high tone uppity when they get a little surge.

As for getting implants I just felt the need. When I looked at what I wanted for my body. I wanted to loose weight. My BMI was 25.6 just overweight . I want to get it down to around 20. In the process I could loose too much breast mass. I was happy with a B cup, I would not be happy with a AA cup. Now I don't need to worry about it.


But you are on hormones for a while now, right? What made you stop for so long? Did you feel like a woman when you were not on hormones? As I remember, you said you resembled Lenin.

That is a long story. Basically I went off to a university which was known to be gay friendly assuming it was also trans friendly or perhaps that with a little prompting they would accommodate me. Wrong. They did a few things
1.) They required all first year transfer students or freshmen to stay in the dorms.
2.) Before they would consider helping me get hormones, I had to be treated by their psychologist damm what any one I saw in the city said.

3.) I wasted so much time trying to go through their channels that after a while I just gave up. The first shock was having one psych cuss me out when I told him why I was there, he did not notice in an hour long interview that I was trans. The last straw was finally being refereed to a psychiatrist who I was told could write me the hormone script. I described my symptoms...they gave me prozac. I gave up. I could have tried another school, and lost my credits and a great deal of money so I toughed it out. By the end I wasn't so sure I "felt like a woman". But after a while more I just knew I felt better and happier as a woman. So here I am.

NIU has since improved a bit. As of this date and according to this survey they will house an LGBT student. (http://www.campusclimateindex.org/details/premium.aspx?ID=165) (I have heard word on the street is that's not true but I haven't checked myself personally.) However their mandatory health insurance will not cover hormones. But they are gay friendly.

[BrendaQG]

You never knew a girl who got her surgery and then suddenly was too good to speak? For some girls it's the implants, for others it's the FFS, and we all have known people who go post op then want to act like their shit don't smell.



I agree.

Didn't Kelly Shore had this type of bad treatment here awhile ago (from a few girls with surge) where she said the same exact thing? ;)

~Kisses.

HTG

Exactly. I could name some other names but I don't want to start something. I have enough drama here.

[Nicole Dupre]

Well, imho, your boobs are looking good Congrats. Sort out your drama, and good luck to you, sister. :)

[scroller]

"I can prove on demand that I was a graduate student on non-degree status at the University of Illinois at Chicago. Much of the rest of their 'evidence' is merely evidence of my being sloppy in my updating of my websites. When I wrote that I expected a PhD by 2010 I expected to be admitted to a PhD. program at UIC, or elsewhere and to get a PhD by 2010."

This doesn't make any sense. It does smell like fraud.

[phobun]

"I can prove on demand that I was a graduate student on non-degree status at the University of Illinois at Chicago. Much of the rest of their 'evidence' is merely evidence of my being sloppy in my updating of my websites. When I wrote that I expected a PhD by 2010 I expected to be admitted to a PhD. program at UIC, or elsewhere and to get a PhD by 2010."

This doesn't make any sense. It does smell like fraud.Fraud?!

Get some perspective. Fraud usually means a deception for the ultimate purpose of gaining a financial advantage.

If anything, this is silliness, not fraud. All the fucking nutter hypocrites throwing stones at Brenda today need to get lives, not waste their day running cheeseball investigations about someone who is weird.

Oh, and another thing... if a carpenter spends all day on HA because nobody is calling him for work, maybe that's the market trying to tell him something. The same is true for escorts and prostitutes.

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

"I can prove on demand that I was a graduate student on non-degree status at the University of Illinois at Chicago. Much of the rest of their 'evidence' is merely evidence of my being sloppy in my updating of my websites. When I wrote that I expected a PhD by 2010 I expected to be admitted to a PhD. program at UIC, or elsewhere and to get a PhD by 2010."

This doesn't make any sense. It does smell like fraud.Fraud?!

Get some perspective. Fraud usually means a deception for the ultimate purpose of gaining a financial advantage.

If anything, this is silliness, not fraud. All the fucking nutter hypocrites throwing stones at Brenda today need to get lives, not waste their day running cheeseball investigations about someone who is weird.

Oh, and another thing... if a carpenter spends all day on HA because nobody is calling him for work, maybe that's the market trying to tell him something. The same is true for escorts and prostitutes.

:claps

Best post of the evening! Phobun FTW!!

~Kisses.

HTG

[worldbro]

Hey HA

I am who started the whole "Hontas Farmer investigation" thing. It seemed
like a funny/retarded idea at the time. I'm blown away every day when I think of what it has turned into. I picked the Hontas online personas for no other reason than she have done an unsuccessful porno shoot with black tgirls and I thought it was silly. I also may or may not have been high at the time
Anyway, I'm not here for fame. I have my own website and blog, but I'm not going to
push that on you guys

Lurker then, now, and forever

[Nicole Dupre]

All the fucking nutter hypocrites throwing stones at Brenda today need to get lives, not waste their day running cheeseball investigations about someone who is weird.

Hmmm. Yet you've always found the time to take a step back from your WOW life on Team Ramrod to question who's a true TS and who's a 2nd class citizen gay man posing as a TS.


Oh, and another thing... if a carpenter spends all day on HA because nobody is calling him for work, maybe that's the market trying to tell him something. The same is true for escorts and prostitutes.

Escorts don't work carpenter's hours. ;)

But, then again, even nurses can be consumed by insane online jealousy as their patients sleep. It's not an 8 hr shift of cleaning bed pans only. But hey, if you're a FT boy in a dress, the coins may not always flow so well. You might have to work with bed sores. I mean, if you're not a real nurse. ;)

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Escorts don't work carpenter's hours. ;)

But, then again, even nurses can be consumed by insane online jealousy as their patients sleep. It's not an 8 hr shift of cleaning bed pans only. But hey, if you're a boy in a dress, the coins don't always flow so well. ;)

Actually, If you're referring to me, I've got nothing to be insanely jealous about. I'm doing what I do which I love unlike some people. ;) If I remembered correctly, being a tattoo artist isn't making you any money there in FL and that you had to work at your local Starbucks, also as a way to get rx for hormones for cheap co-pays..which is why you quit and now escorting. lol

Also, being a nurse and working health care does not only involved cleaning bedpans..my patient actually can use the potty fine. But moreover, caring for someone means that you make sure their vitals are good, they eat healthy nutritious meals (special diet for people with diabetes or high cholesterol etc), giving them medications on time to name a few. Now dealing with bedsores, tracheostomy is a specialty..that pays the big bucks! People who aren't a real nurse aren't allowed to handle bedsores, FYI. ;)

You should know this since you're currently taking care of a room mate who's just recently had a stroke, right? That type of work is never a joke when people are dependent on you to survive!

I'm offended that YOU would even attempt and make a crack out of nurses. When nurses play an important role when you go see a doctor for check ups, an std test, a simple blood work or when you're confined at a hospital.

~Kisses.

HTG

[yosi]

I think it was JWBL who once wrote : "never get yourself in the middle of a transexual catfight"

he was right :wink:

[BrendaQG]

Hey HA

I am who started the whole "Hontas Farmer investigation" thing. It seemed
like a funny/retarded idea at the time. I'm blown away every day when I think of what it has turned into. I picked the Hontas online personas for no other reason than she have done an unsuccessful porno shoot with black tgirls and I thought it was silly. I also may or may not have been high at the time
Anyway, I'm not here for fame. I have my own website and blog, but I'm not going to
push that on you guys

Lurker then, now, and forever

Ah haaa I knew you liked to look at my pics Curtis. Why else would you have placed a hot link to my cock shot. lol

The thing that made the shoot "unsucessful" was that somebody posted the pics here before they were on the paid website thus destroying their commercial value. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free. Funny thing is the person who did that might have thought they were doing me some kind of a favor on some level by preventing me from being on that website.

[BellaBellucci]

I've just read this entire thread and here's my two cents:

First of all, whoever did this to Brenda is a stalker but one who clearly has their head (albeit not their heart - I think this was quite excessive) in the right place. Any transperson who supports the further separation of our community into 'gay' and 'autogynephile' is worse than the cisgendered people who do it and since controversial beliefs will always lead to controversy, this should have been expected at one point or another. I'm sorry Brenda. I actually feel a lot of what you say but you had to have known that inconsistent identities get called out pretty quickly around here - especially when you're under scrutiny for what appears to be anti-trans activities.

I believe it was Nicole who pointed out that this is a divide and conquer technique on the part of doctors who would exploit us. The irony though, is that we didn't pick up terms like gay transsexual, autogynephiliac, primary, and secondary - we created them. The doctors are merely mirroring the way we look at each other which is to say the way we define ourselves and they just exploit that for their own personal gain.

Which leads me to the real reason I'm throwing my opinion in the ring: Hara and I have been fighting for weeks not really because we disagree on anal sex - as far as I'm concerned we each have our preferences - but because she uses physical sexual preferences as the SOLE indicator to determine under which illegitimate label people fall. That's not only not her call to make but is an opinion that is only valid if one believes that gender identity is mutually exclusive to sexual orientation. Most of us don't as it's not a fair assumption.

'You don't like it in the ass so you're a man or an autogynephile' is not a valid argument. (On a personal note, having previously been straight, the idea of having a vagina does absolutely nothing to sexually stimulate me - It's more of a convenience as I'm absolutely just sick of tucking!) It's also far too easy to turn things around and say that 'gay transsexuals' are 'fake' trannies because they're really gayboys who wear women's clothes to attract 'straight' men and that is equally invalid although both 'groups' have exceptions.

I personally find that the transsexuals who come out of the gay community use their attraction to men as justification to consider themselves superior transsexuals to those who had previously preferred women because bottom is supposedly the 'proper woman's role' despite the lack of the proper genitalia to truly be in that role (hence the 'duke shoot' incident) as if whom a person loves or how they have sex considering the genitalia they were assigned at birth can tell them who they ARE. That plays right into Bailey's hands. Let's face it ladies: we can't insult each other using Bailey's terms and then claim that they shouldn't exist. WE validate them all the time without any of Brenda's or even Bailey's help.

I think it's also true that many girls get surgery and suddenly think they're better than everyone else; not always, but far too often. I've lost plenty of friends over petty boob jobs as I'm sure many of us have and it's just sad. That whole goddamn thing is sad. Why do freaks like Bailey even have this much power in the first place?

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

Actually, If you're referring to me, I've got nothing to be insanely jealous about. I'm doing what I do which I love unlike some people. ;) If I remembered correctly, being a tattoo artist isn't making you any money there in FL and that you had to work at your local Starbucks, also as a way to get rx for hormones for cheap co-pays..which is why you quit and now escorting. lol

In this economy, having a good job makes you luckier, but certainly not better than anyone. Stop with that nonsense. Just stop.

~BB

[Nicole Dupre]

Is the little FT crossdresser in the wig dissing me because she knows THAT I KNOW she's shady? I guess I'm now on that shit list of hers with Jenn and Kelly Shore, and God knows who else among the trannys here she's so obviously jealous of.

[Nicole Dupre]

Actually, If you're referring to me, I've got nothing to be insanely jealous about. I'm doing what I do which I love unlike some people. ;) If I remembered correctly, being a tattoo artist isn't making you any money there in FL and that you had to work at your local Starbucks, also as a way to get rx for hormones for cheap co-pays..which is why you quit and now escorting. lol

In this economy, having a good job makes you luckier, but certainly not better than anyone. Stop with that nonsense. Just stop.

~BB

I escorted all the way through every dayjob I've had since I transitioned 5 years ago; before, during, and after. Since I became fulltime, I have worked as a tattooer, receptionist in a hair salon, waitress, Starbucks (who I took to task and proved their insurance, ALTHOUGH IT SAYS THEY DO, does NOT cover SRS - fuck you, Howard Schultz! lol), etc.

My point is, I've never been afraid of hard work OR HARD play. ;) I had a great job before I transitioned; new car, condo, etc. I don't think that was the case for a certain person in Jersey City though. ;)

But yeah, that quote from the bed pan cleaner was lame. She ought to show more bare skin and a less naked bitterness. Like, was I even fucking talking to her long-sleeve wearing ass? Umm, no. I was not, and will not. Someone got chopped for being shady. Period.

[SarahG]

The irony though, is that we didn't pick up terms like gay transsexual, autogynephiliac, primary, and secondary - we created them.

Wait what? Are you serious?

"We" did no such thing. Going all the way back to Benjamin's work, the scientists in the field have been making up terms as they go along... not because of how we appear to them, but because they feel they should have the power to control what we do with our bodies. Its not coincidental that for most of the 20th century, your only chance of getting ok'd for SRS through mainstream channels was if you passed all their tests showing you're a 50's stepford wife... meaning; white, middle class SEC status, feminine, straight, without any masculine hobbies, introverted, passive, and for quite a while... so anal as to include not wearing pants (ever; not even girls' pants).

Benjamin himself was a very far right social conservative. If you google him you can see that in the war years he was a straunt eugenics proponent who supported a few powerful forced sterilization programs in the United States including one in California which experimented on children in CA's foster care system (http://books.google.com/books?id=qYHscsPFF-wC&pg=PA260-IA13&dq=nazi+harry+Benjamin&as_brr=3). I've seen books saying that he was a regular guest parties in NYC being hosted by American nazis... note I said NAZIS and not neo-nazis.

A Reich propagandist and spy, named Vierick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Sylvester_Viereck) was recruited by the Germans during the Great War to help swing American public opinion in favor of Germany. When the Nazis came to power they eventually made him the highest ranking spy/propagandist in North America. After the war he would host large parties, usually sex parties at his flat in NYC (http://books.google.com/books?id=SX4B7pNG3W8C&pg=PA105&dq=nazi+harry+Benjamin&as_brr=3)where all the continent's fascist policymakers would congregate. Supposedly Benjamin was a typical guest to find at these parties, which isn't surprising given his interests in eugenics and forced sterilization.

The fascists and social conservatives had gained virtually complete control over the field of sexology back in the 30's when the Nazis came to power. At the time, the world's LGBT movement was actually in Wiemar Republic Germany, headquartered in Berlin. Consequently several liberal, jewish doctors & scientists flocked to the region to research and experiment with the gay and trans people in the area... and these liberals quickly started defending them and trying to gain them civil liberties after seeing that clearly their patients weren't doing anything bad, and were simply born different. This got them on the Nazis' shit lists in a hurry... when the Nazis came to power, one of their first responses was to go after the sexologists in an attempt to coupe d'tat the entire field of sexology.

To do this the Nazis sent their brownshirts after the sexologists, and carted away all of their private journals, notes, books, personal libraries- everything they can find. You know all those famous photographs and news reels of Nazi book burnings? What most people don't know is that those pictures show the burning of all the sexologist literature the brownshirts could find in Berlin! They effectively destroyed the entire LGBT movement of the time, one that was better organized and larger than any in human history- and most of the work done in the first half of the 20th century and the later half of the 19th century was lost in the book burning fires. After they criminalized homosexuality they arrested roughly 10 thousand gay or trans people in Germany per year, who would then be sterilized, thrown in prison for a few years... and if they survived that, they would be automatically sent to the camps.

The guards themselves were instructed to be especially hard on anyone with a pink triangle, so they were usually got the worst of the beatings, murders, and torture in the camps. Every eyewitness that exists on the regard dealing with gay camp prisoners has remarked about how either they were A- treated abnormally worse then the rest or B- tended not to live for long (see A). The "official" story that you'll find in the textbooks is that only an estimated 5-10 thousand gays were killed in the holocaust, usually with the footnote that the records don't exist to know for sure how many there were... but that number seems very incorrect if taken with the observation that an estimated 10 thousand per year were arrested for stature 175 violations. I wouldn't be surprised if the real count was in the neighborhood of 40k, especially since the gays that did not end up in the camps were then hounded by the police trying to find a different way to arrest them to take them off the streets. I am sure a lot of the criminals thrown into the camps were really just gays who got away with 175 stature violations earlier.

Then the Nazis handed the entire field over to crazy, fascist doctors like Mengele who took the procedures like penile inversion (aka srs) that had been developed by sexologists in the region before (like Abraham) and used them to experiment on children without painkillers... in addition to using it and hrt to try to cure homosexuality. When the war ended these programs didn't just go away, they moved to South Africa and continued using conscripts up until the 1980's.

Why do you think the gender clinics of the US all the way up through the 80s were insisting on MtF's meeting 50s type ideals regarding femininity? Do you really think that's coincidental?

Its never been about defining things as they appear in trans patients. If it was, I doubt we would care so much about trivial things like whether or not the patient owns pants, or is bi. If it was, I bet they would want people to be like regular GG's... not a 50s ideal that is not actually present in our society. The exaggerated, hollywood style femininity they used to want they wanted at a time when it was virtually extinct. That's not about assimilation!

[Nicole Dupre]

Escorts don't work carpenter's hours. ;)

But, then again, even nurses can be consumed by insane online jealousy as their patients sleep. It's not an 8 hr shift of cleaning bed pans only. But hey, if you're a boy in a dress, the coins don't always flow so well. ;)

Actually, If you're referring to me, I've got nothing to be insanely jealous about. I'm doing what I do which I love unlike some people. ;) If I remembered correctly, being a tattoo artist isn't making you any money there in FL and that you had to work at your local Starbucks, also as a way to get rx for hormones for cheap co-pays..which is why you quit and now escorting. lol

Also, being a nurse and working health care does not only involved cleaning bedpans..my patient actually can use the potty fine. But moreover, caring for someone means that you make sure their vitals are good, they eat healthy nutritious meals (special diet for people with diabetes or high cholesterol etc), giving them medications on time to name a few. Now dealing with bedsores, tracheostomy is a specialty..that pays the big bucks! People who aren't a real nurse aren't allowed to handle bedsores, FYI. ;)

You should know this since you're currently taking care of a room mate who's just recently had a stroke, right? That type of work is never a joke when people are dependent on you to survive!

I'm offended that YOU would even attempt and make a crack out of nurses. When nurses play an important role when you go see a doctor for check ups, an std test, a simple blood work or when you're confined at a hospital.

~Kisses.

HTG

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Actually, If you're referring to me, I've got nothing to be insanely jealous about. I'm doing what I do which I love unlike some people. ;) If I remembered correctly, being a tattoo artist isn't making you any money there in FL and that you had to work at your local Starbucks, also as a way to get rx for hormones for cheap co-pays..which is why you quit and now escorting. lol

In this economy, having a good job makes you luckier, but certainly not better than anyone. Stop with that nonsense. Just stop.

~BB

I DID NOT say I was BETTER than you or anyone! STOP putting your assessment of everything I say in my mouth! :roll:

Her statement was a poor attempt at a swipe at me.

~Kisses.

HTG

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Is the little FT crossdresser in the wig dissing me because she knows THAT I KNOW she's shady? I guess I'm now on that shit list of hers with Jenn and Kelly Shore, and God knows who else among the trannys here she's so obviously jealous of.

lol 5 years? Try 4 (2005 you weren't even in transition when we met). But even though Moni and JWBL was shredding you to pieces, I kept my mouth to myself and didn't give them ammo. :roll:

Dissing you? Or was it the other way around? I've no problems with KS (and I even told her of the change back on HD before she made it doing porn). I don't have a problem with JJ either. I'm NOT the one going abouts calling people and telling them what JJ's military ex bf who left her for another man (whom you met) told you STUFFS! My work keeps me busy and often exhausted, I do not have the time to gossip like you guys do. So really, who's SHADY, again? I remembered, it was YOU who called me, while I was on break at work and having a cigarette. :roll:

P.S. Hm about the wig comment..You should know because back when we met in JC I had a girls bob and you had a guy hair. YOU even said, God I wish I had your hair if i recall correctly. The fact that you wear one currently, shows you're a bigot.

~Kisses.

HTG

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Actually, If you're referring to me, I've got nothing to be insanely jealous about. I'm doing what I do which I love unlike some people. ;) If I remembered correctly, being a tattoo artist isn't making you any money there in FL and that you had to work at your local Starbucks, also as a way to get rx for hormones for cheap co-pays..which is why you quit and now escorting. lol

In this economy, having a good job makes you luckier, but certainly not better than anyone. Stop with that nonsense. Just stop.

~BB

I escorted all the way through every dayjob I've had since I transitioned 5 years ago; before, during, and after. Since I became fulltime, I have worked as a tattooer, receptionist in a hair salon, waitress, Starbucks (who I took to task and proved their insurance, ALTHOUGH IT SAYS THEY DO, does NOT cover SRS - fuck you, Howard Schultz! lol), etc.

My point is, I've never been afraid of hard work OR HARD play. ;) I had a great job before I transitioned; new car, condo, etc. I don't think that was the case for a certain person in Jersey City though. ;)

But yeah, that quote from the bed pan cleaner was lame. She ought to show more bare skin and a less naked bitterness. Like, was I even fucking talking to her long-sleeve wearing ass? Umm, no. I was not, and will not. Someone got chopped for being shady. Period.

You mean, YOUR poor poor attempt to make a swipe at me or my profession was LAME? I NEVER said you were afraid of any HARD work. Pls. don't construe what Ive said. Also, show more skin? Why? Am I selling/peddling my ass for a living? You keep at it because that is your bread and butter, not mine!

Let's face it, YOU are MAD at me because what you've said about JJ reached a certain someone (and probably JJ)? But who was gossiping in the 1st place? I never met her (JJ), or had sex with her ex bf - You did!

~Kisses.

HTG

[Nicole Dupre]

Also, show more skin? Why? Am I selling/peddling my ass for a living? You keep at it because that is your bread and butter, not mine!

Never told you I liked your hair. lol Sorry. And you called me that day about your departure from HD, and how you thought Vicki and TrueB were shady. Get your facts straight.

So whats up with long sleeves for 5 years? You did skin bleaching, right? Any mishaps on your upper body? I mean, you can be shady towards the entire forum concept of trannys bearing all, or you can show some skin on your upper body. Scars? What's under there?

[Nicole Dupre]

I DID NOT say I was BETTER than you or anyone! STOP putting your assessment of everything I say in my mouth!

HTG

But you've been implying it with your comments about Tgirls in the adult industry, haven't you? ;) That's casting shade on ALL TS sex-workers which you are clearly not. Why so bitter? Wtf did we do to you? There's 'noble' you, and then there's the 99% of the girls on this site who have stooped to peddling their bodies? Is that how you see us?

Please tell us why you aren't working in the adult industry. Are you too sexy for your bedpan? Too sexy for your diaper changing?

This must be that bitch attitude that came with my tits speaking right now. At least I think that's how it's supposed to work. :roll:

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Also, show more skin? Why? Am I selling/peddling my ass for a living? You keep at it because that is your bread and butter, not mine!

Never told you I liked your hair. lol Sorry. And you called me that day about your departure from HD, and how you thought Vicki and TrueB were shady. Get your facts straight.

So whats up with long sleeves for 5 years? You did skin bleaching, right? Any mishaps on your upper body? I mean, you can be shady towards the entire forum concept of trannys bearing all, or you can show some skin on your upper body. Scars? What's under there?

Sure, of course now that you're upset, you won't (refuse) to say anything. lol Don't get it twisted sis, you called me numerous times asking me to go to HD and read the silliness posted on the anon section. Of course, most of the post there was YOURS!

Yes I did bleach, which explains why I don't do the sun and the beach. Anyone with knowledge about skin can tell you that! I even use an umbrella if its really hot outside (maybe an Asian thing?). But what's your obsession with my skin anyways? I'm not covered with scars or tattoo's.

Shady towards the entire forum? Hmm, let me remind YOU and everyone else WHY you GOT banned from HA? You created a secondary handle and took a swipe at Seanchai. Calling him out, ridiculing his weight..something about a sandwich and that he pays the girls like very little? Let that alone be exhibit A about YOUR character.

So what else bullshit you can come up with? :roll:

~Kisses.

HTG

[BellaBellucci]

The irony though, is that we didn't pick up terms like gay transsexual, autogynephiliac, primary, and secondary - we created them.

Wait what? Are you serious?

"We" did no such thing. Going all the way back to Benjamin's work, the scientists in the field have been making up terms as they go along... not because of how we appear to them, but because they feel they should have the power to control what we do with our bodies. Its not coincidental that for most of the 20th century, your only chance of getting ok'd for SRS through mainstream channels was if you passed all their tests showing you're a 50's stepford wife... meaning; white, middle class SEC status, feminine, straight, without any masculine hobbies, introverted, passive, and for quite a while... so anal as to include not wearing pants (ever; not even girls' pants).

I'm sorry. You're right, so allow me to rephrase: we PERPETUATE the terms. My bad.

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

lol Don't hate. Seanchai and I have no beef, and I doubt you are not getting invited back to Yum. Get a life and get your facts straight. You've dissed Seanchai PLENTY. I think you are still mad that he still uses your pics, right? Didn't you ask that he take them down?

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

I DID NOT say I was BETTER than you or anyone! STOP putting your assessment of everything I say in my mouth!

HTG

But you've been implying it with your comments about Tgirls in the adult industry, haven't you? ;) That's casting shade on ALL TS sex-workers which you are clearly not. Why so bitter? Wtf did we do to you? There's 'noble' you, and then there's the 99% of the girls on this site who have stooped to peddling their bodies? Is that how you see us?

Please tell us why you aren't working in the adult industry. Are you too sexy for your bedpan? Too sexy for your diaper changing?

This must be that bitch attitude that came with my tits speaking right now. At least I think that's how it's supposed to work. :roll:

Implying..because I made a comment about lack of any good role models? Or stating a fact why so any tg's can't find mainstream employment? Why shoot me for the facts of life which I've simply re-stated? No. That isn't SHADY. Shade is dropping hints about being a nurse and bedpans. BIG difference. :roll:

This is a forum, for people post their opinions or two. IF you take everything that is said or posted to heart..what does that do to you? Nothing!

And why are you so obsessed and trying to get me to work your kind of job? Funny, I just recall, you calling me on the phone asking me to turn my forum into like HA, and to do banners etc. (to make coins)? That's NOT what I am about..never was!

Believe it or not, I actually ENJOY my work and helping people. THAT is my calling. What is yours? I mean, surely you must have some back up since your in your early 40's when the time comes and you're not getting any calls? But then again, That is NOT my problem.

P.S. BrendaQG is right, people change after boob implants. The bitch then become even a bigger BITCH. lol

~Kisses.

HTG

[Nicole Dupre]

No, nothing I'm saying is bullshit. You're that sad. lol

But as I already knew, you're the two faced one here. 8)

Now please stop talking to me. You've been shady. Move on. Stick with your buddy, Phobun. Thanksloveyaloadsmmmwahmmmbuhbye.

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

lol Don't hate. Seanchai and I have no beef, and I doubt you are not getting invited back to Yum. Get a life and get your facts straight. You've dissed Seanchai PLENTY. I think you are still mad that he still uses your pics, right? Didn't you ask that he take them down?

I don't hate..but YOU do plenty! lol I'm sure everything was sorted out. I also recall talking with you on the phone, and you logged on at HD giggling at the fact seeing Seanchai reads your post or checking you out like a 40 year old going on 15! :lol:

Seanchai and I had our disagreements. But I don't take them personally (I hope he doesn't). YOU don't own YUM to give out such a press release!! :lol:
Oh and for the record, I am NOT mad that pics of me circa 2000 is still there. I NEVER onced asked Seanchai for him to take them down. See, where are you getting these false information? It's way too funny and shows your desperation. ;)

~Kisses.

HTG

[Nicole Dupre]

I DID NOT say I was BETTER than you or anyone! STOP putting your assessment of everything I say in my mouth!

HTG

But you've been implying it with your comments about Tgirls in the adult industry, haven't you? ;) That's casting shade on ALL TS sex-workers which you are clearly not. Why so bitter? Wtf did we do to you? There's 'noble' you, and then there's the 99% of the girls on this site who have stooped to peddling their bodies? Is that how you see us?

Please tell us why you aren't working in the adult industry. Are you too sexy for your bedpan? Too sexy for your diaper changing?

This must be that bitch attitude that came with my tits speaking right now. At least I think that's how it's supposed to work. :roll:

Implying..because I made a comment about lack of any good role models? Or stating a fact why so any tg's can't find mainstream employment? Why shoot me for the facts of life which I've simply re-stated? No. That isn't SHADY. Shade is dropping hints about being a nurse and bedpans. BIG difference. :roll:

This is a forum, for people post their opinions or two. IF you take everything that is said or posted to heart..what does that do to you? Nothing!

And why are you so obsessed and trying to get me to work your kind of job? Funny, I just recall, you calling me on the phone asking me to turn my forum into like HA, and to do banners etc. (to make coins)? That's NOT what I am about..never was!

Believe it or not, I actually ENJOY my work and helping people. THAT is my calling. What is yours? I mean, surely you must have some back up since your in your early 40's when the time comes and you're not getting any calls? But then again, That is NOT my problem.

P.S. BrendaQG is right, people change after boob implants. The bitch then become even a bigger BITCH. lol

~Kisses.

HTGNo. I told you to put up a few banners. :) But that was too complicated for you. I think your learning curve stopped at getting your sig to say "kisses". lol Which is cool. There are plenty of places to put up shemale porn banners. Besides, we wouldn't want to confuse your members. ;) lol

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

No, nothing I'm saying is bullshit. You're that sad. lol

But as I already knew, you're the two faced one here. 8)

Now please stop talking to me. You've been shady. Move on. Stick with your buddy, Phobun. Thanksloveyaloadsmmmwahmmmbuhbye.

Hahaha..coming from someone who's reputation here isn't that stellar, I find that super duper HILARIOUS! Lmao :lol:

You LOVE to hate people, don't you Nicole? Surely years have past and YOU STILL HATE the same people from way way back! Explains perfectly well WHY you seem bitter and jilted over ALOT of things!

Don't talk to me and I'll do the same as a courtesy. Deal? ;)

~Kisses.

HTG

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

I DID NOT say I was BETTER than you or anyone! STOP putting your assessment of everything I say in my mouth!

HTG

But you've been implying it with your comments about Tgirls in the adult industry, haven't you? ;) That's casting shade on ALL TS sex-workers which you are clearly not. Why so bitter? Wtf did we do to you? There's 'noble' you, and then there's the 99% of the girls on this site who have stooped to peddling their bodies? Is that how you see us?

Please tell us why you aren't working in the adult industry. Are you too sexy for your bedpan? Too sexy for your diaper changing?

This must be that bitch attitude that came with my tits speaking right now. At least I think that's how it's supposed to work. :roll:

Implying..because I made a comment about lack of any good role models? Or stating a fact why so any tg's can't find mainstream employment? Why shoot me for the facts of life which I've simply re-stated? No. That isn't SHADY. Shade is dropping hints about being a nurse and bedpans. BIG difference. :roll:

This is a forum, for people post their opinions or two. IF you take everything that is said or posted to heart..what does that do to you? Nothing!

And why are you so obsessed and trying to get me to work your kind of job? Funny, I just recall, you calling me on the phone asking me to turn my forum into like HA, and to do banners etc. (to make coins)? That's NOT what I am about..never was!

Believe it or not, I actually ENJOY my work and helping people. THAT is my calling. What is yours? I mean, surely you must have some back up since your in your early 40's when the time comes and you're not getting any calls? But then again, That is NOT my problem.

P.S. BrendaQG is right, people change after boob implants. The bitch then become even a bigger BITCH. lol

~Kisses.

HTGNo. I told you to put up a few banners. :) But that was too complicated for you. I think your learning curve stopped at getting your sig to say "kisses". lol Which is cool. There are plenty of places to put up shemale porn banners. Besides, we wouldn't want to confuse your members. ;) lol

And I DON'T want to! I just don't got the time. What don't YOU not understand about that simple statement? Besides, I'm comfortable with what I'm making at the moment. Why don't YOU do it?

~Kisses.

HTG

[Nicole Dupre]

Seanchai and I had our disagreements. But I don't take them personally (I hope he doesn't). YOU don't own YUM to give out such a press release!! :lol:
Oh and for the record, I am NOT mad that pics of me circa 2000 is still there. I NEVER onced asked Seanchai for him to take them down. See, where are you getting these false information? It's way too funny and shows your desperation. ;)


Well, that's what you told me. Personally, I couldn't carer less. 2000 was a decade ago, and you're just re-starting HRT now. Not a lot of progress with you since the 90's, huh? ;)

[Nicole Dupre]

Besides, I'm comfortable with what I'm making at the moment. Why don't YOU do it? What? Change diapers on old people?! That's disgusting! I'd pay you to do it!

And if you're so damn comfortable, why so shady towards sex workers?

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Seanchai and I had our disagreements. But I don't take them personally (I hope he doesn't). YOU don't own YUM to give out such a press release!! :lol:
Oh and for the record, I am NOT mad that pics of me circa 2000 is still there. I NEVER onced asked Seanchai for him to take them down. See, where are you getting these false information? It's way too funny and shows your desperation. ;)


Well, that's what you told me. Personally, I couldn't carer less. 2000 was a decade ago, and you're just re-starting HRT now. Not a lot of progress with you since the 90's, huh? ;)

No. I never said that. Honestly, how could you keep up when you talk to a dozen trannies in a week? Ah yes, As expected, a swipe for not yet in the "implants" club. I've seen this coming. Here's why.

1. I'm NOT that comfortable going under the knife (I've had nightmares as a kid about injections alone let alone being cut up).
2. But even though I am uncomfortable about surgeries, I've managed to get autologous fat transfer to my face. Which is a big STEP to over coming that fear. I can only take one at a time at my convenience.
3. I'm big on family, which means, because I will never have children..I'm 'still' sending a sister to school to help out FAMILY. Italians are big on family like filipino's, right?
4. Unlike some tg's who maxed out their cc's for upgrades, I prefer to get them foregoing owing cc companies.

So you see, I'm not and was NEVER a selfish bitch. I actually take pride helping out other members of my family when they needed me. What breast implants, nose jobs etc. will make me happy, IF I see one member of my family not having any education or getting any needed medical attention? Maybe our priorities are different. But those are mine. And I doubt, that will change over time. ;)

~Kisses.

HTG

[Nicole Dupre]

No, nothing I'm saying is bullshit. You're that sad. lol

But as I already knew, you're the two faced one here. 8)

Now please stop talking to me. You've been shady. Move on. Stick with your buddy, Phobun. Thanksloveyaloadsmmmwahmmmbuhbye.

Hahaha..coming from someone who's reputation here isn't that stellar, I find that super duper HILARIOUS! Lmao :lol:

You LOVE to hate people, don't you Nicole? Surely years have past and YOU STILL HATE the same people from way way back! Explains perfectly well WHY you seem bitter and jilted over ALOT of things!

Don't talk to me and I'll do the same as a courtesy. Deal? ;)

~Kisses.

HTGlol No. I hate no one, actually; not even your new cyber BF, Phobun. I forgive, but don't forget. But I'll try to hate on you both if it makes either of you feel any better. lol

I chopped you. That's done. But you should not dis sexworkers. If you have a problem with us, which you can deny but I think you do; why be here? To be stuck up?

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Besides, I'm comfortable with what I'm making at the moment. Why don't YOU do it? What? Change diapers on old people?! That's disgusting! I'd pay you to do it!

And if you're so damn comfortable, why so shady towards sex workers?

lol@the diaper change. Karma is a BITCH! God forbid you're in your early 40's rtnow..but that doesn't last forever. I'm sure you will encounter lazy nurses that will let you SOAK and lie in your own SHIT for hours. And there's nothing you can do about it if you lost your mobility! :lol: Wait and see why don't you?

I'm NOT! If anything, YOU were shady towards me. Like I've said, Don't kill the messenger. I was purely re-stating facts as they were. ;)

Nicole, do you get any satisfaction fighting with people? It get's really tiring watching/reading you post alot of your hang ups and deep seated hatred off from you!

On here, you fight with people - guy/girls alike. On HD, it's pretty much the same old song! Trashing and lashing out crossdressers. What is it exactly that really irritates you about your former self? lol

Jeez, when does that ever stop?!? lol

~Kisses.

HTG

[BellaBellucci]

No. I never said that. Honestly, how could you keep up when you talk to a dozen trannies in a week? Ah yes, As expected, a swipe for not yet in the "implants" club. I've seen this coming. Here's why.

1. I'm NOT that comfortable going under the knife (I've had nightmares as a kid about injections alone let alone being cut up).
2. But even though I am uncomfortable about surgeries, I've managed to get autologous fat transfer to my face. Which is a big STEP to over coming that fear. I can only take one at a time at my convenience.
3. I'm big on family, which means, because I will never have children..I'm 'still' sending a sister to school to help out FAMILY. Italians are big on family like filipino's, right?
4. Unlike some tg's who maxed out their cc's for upgrades, I prefer to get them foregoing owing cc companies.

So you see, I'm not and was NEVER a selfish bitch. I actually take pride helping out other members of my family when they needed me. What breast implants, nose jobs etc. will make me happy, IF I see one member of my family not having any education or getting any needed medical attention? Maybe our priorities are different. But those are mine. And I doubt, that will change over time. ;)

~Kisses.

HTG

*sigh* Gods know I hate to agree with you, but she just took a little swipe at me through email for not having implants.

Nicole do you really think that those of us who can't afford surgeries right now aren't as good as you? That's just wrong unless you're talking about a CD who claims to be TS and has no tits of any kind or something. Some of us have enough naturally feminine features to live very fruitful lives as women without silicon/saline bags in our chests. Hell, I don't even think SRS will make me any more a woman. In my opinion, anyone who is 'fulltime' and has done everything they can possibly do sans surgery (for precisely Hara's reasoning) is VERY much a woman.

~BB~

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

No, nothing I'm saying is bullshit. You're that sad. lol

But as I already knew, you're the two faced one here. 8)

Now please stop talking to me. You've been shady. Move on. Stick with your buddy, Phobun. Thanksloveyaloadsmmmwahmmmbuhbye.

Hahaha..coming from someone who's reputation here isn't that stellar, I find that super duper HILARIOUS! Lmao :lol:

You LOVE to hate people, don't you Nicole? Surely years have past and YOU STILL HATE the same people from way way back! Explains perfectly well WHY you seem bitter and jilted over ALOT of things!

Don't talk to me and I'll do the same as a courtesy. Deal? ;)

~Kisses.

HTGlol No. I hate no one, actually; not even your new cyber BF, Phobun. I forgive, but don't forget. But I'll try to hate on you both if it makes either of you feel any better. lol

I chopped you. That's done. But you should not dis sexworkers. If you have a problem with us, which you can deny but I think you do; why be here? To be stuck up?

Well IF that were TRUE..I'm NOT that very convinced. I'm sure others aren't either!! lol ;)

And I chopped you back! It was nice. I don't have a problem with you and what you do. That's your business, not mine.

So STOP hating!

~Kisses.

HTG

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

No. I never said that. Honestly, how could you keep up when you talk to a dozen trannies in a week? Ah yes, As expected, a swipe for not yet in the "implants" club. I've seen this coming. Here's why.

1. I'm NOT that comfortable going under the knife (I've had nightmares as a kid about injections alone let alone being cut up).
2. But even though I am uncomfortable about surgeries, I've managed to get autologous fat transfer to my face. Which is a big STEP to over coming that fear. I can only take one at a time at my convenience.
3. I'm big on family, which means, because I will never have children..I'm 'still' sending a sister to school to help out FAMILY. Italians are big on family like filipino's, right?
4. Unlike some tg's who maxed out their cc's for upgrades, I prefer to get them foregoing owing cc companies.

So you see, I'm not and was NEVER a selfish bitch. I actually take pride helping out other members of my family when they needed me. What breast implants, nose jobs etc. will make me happy, IF I see one member of my family not having any education or getting any needed medical attention? Maybe our priorities are different. But those are mine. And I doubt, that will change over time. ;)

~Kisses.

HTG

*sigh* Gods know I hate to agree with you, but she just took a little swipe at me through email for not having implants.

Nicole do you really think that those of us who can't afford surgeries right now aren't as good as you? That's just wrong unless you're talking about a CD who claims to be TS and has no tits of any kind or something. Some of us have enough naturally feminine features to live very fruitful lives as women without silicon/saline bags in our chests. Hell, I don't even think SRS will make me any more a woman. In my opinion, anyone who is 'fulltime' and has done everything they can possibly do sans surgery (for precisely Hara's reasoning) is VERY much a woman.

~BB~

Well according to HER. It's Join the 'boobs league' or be cast out as a hoax? At least that's my impression of what she was saying. ;)

~Kisses.

HTG

[Ryz]

LMAO!

[Cubpocalypse]

Jerry! Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

[BellaBellucci]

Well according to HER. It's Join the 'boobs league' or be cast out as a hoax? At least that's my impression of what she was saying. ;)

~Kisses.

HTG

You have no idea how painful it is for me to agree with you, but unfortunately, I have to.

I like you Nicole, but yours is a pretty arrogant and divisive opinion. I may joke and call her Hara Tboy and all that, but I think's pretty obvious that it's because I'm mad at her at the moment, not because I really think she's manly. I may not like her, but I don't really think that either. :(

~BB~

PS: Nobody's hating on you Hara. Sometimes people just don't get along.

[Nicole Dupre]

I'm NOT! If anything, YOU were shady towards me. Like I've said, Don't kill the messenger. I was purely re-stating facts as they were. ;)

Jeez, when does that ever stop?!? lol



Gee. I'm not sure...:?
... but maybe it's when you stop 'jacking threads to argue with Bella every two fucking seconds! :idea: :P

[tommymageeshemales2]

GIVE IT UP! FUCK!!!!

[Nicole Dupre]

No. I never said that. Honestly, how could you keep up when you talk to a dozen trannies in a week? Ah yes, As expected, a swipe for not yet in the "implants" club. I've seen this coming. Here's why.

1. I'm NOT that comfortable going under the knife (I've had nightmares as a kid about injections alone let alone being cut up).
2. But even though I am uncomfortable about surgeries, I've managed to get autologous fat transfer to my face. Which is a big STEP to over coming that fear. I can only take one at a time at my convenience.
3. I'm big on family, which means, because I will never have children..I'm 'still' sending a sister to school to help out FAMILY. Italians are big on family like filipino's, right?
4. Unlike some tg's who maxed out their cc's for upgrades, I prefer to get them foregoing owing cc companies.

So you see, I'm not and was NEVER a selfish bitch. I actually take pride helping out other members of my family when they needed me. What breast implants, nose jobs etc. will make me happy, IF I see one member of my family not having any education or getting any needed medical attention? Maybe our priorities are different. But those are mine. And I doubt, that will change over time. ;)

~Kisses.

HTG

*sigh* Gods know I hate to agree with you, but she just took a little swipe at me through email for not having implants.

Nicole do you really think that those of us who can't afford surgeries right now aren't as good as you? That's just wrong unless you're talking about a CD who claims to be TS and has no tits of any kind or something. Some of us have enough naturally feminine features to live very fruitful lives as women without silicon/saline bags in our chests. Hell, I don't even think SRS will make me any more a woman. In my opinion, anyone who is 'fulltime' and has done everything they can possibly do sans surgery (for precisely Hara's reasoning) is VERY much a woman.

~BB~A swipe at you? Ok. Take care.

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Well according to HER. It's Join the 'boobs league' or be cast out as a hoax? At least that's my impression of what she was saying. ;)

~Kisses.

HTG

You have no idea how painful it is for me to agree with you, but unfortunately, I have to.

I like you Nicole, but yours is a pretty arrogant and divisive opinion. I may joke and call her Hara Tboy and all that, but I think's pretty obvious that it's because I'm mad at her at the moment, not because I really think she's manly. I may not like her, but I don't really think that either. :(

~BB~

Yeah, I know. People got prides. Sometimes we have to set them aside for when a real issue such as this arise. Nicole clearly means segregation..a hierarchy of some sorts amongs tg's. As IF tg's with implants are the real trannies..but on her other post she was stating that primary or secondary doesn't really make any sense. Seems the same to me.

I even remembered her telling me that she hates people who don't live full time as a girl..I won't name names here but I'm pretty sure they know who they are.

So let's bury the hatchet?
I'll take my sig off, you take yours?

;)

~Kisses.

HTG

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

I'm NOT! If anything, YOU were shady towards me. Like I've said, Don't kill the messenger. I was purely re-stating facts as they were. ;)

Jeez, when does that ever stop?!? lol



Gee. I'm not sure...:?
... but maybe it's when you stop 'jacking threads to argue with Bella every two fucking seconds! :idea: :P

Touche! Practice what you preach..and stop running after people and reviving some thx threads! lol

~Kisses.

HTG

[BellaBellucci]

A swipe at you? Ok. Take care.

I'm sorry that you throw away possible friendships over small disagreements like seemingly everyone else here, but if it wasn't a swipe then maybe you should have chosen your words more carefully. I'm not going to post the email because I do think you had overall good intentions, but like I said I unfortunately have to agree with Hara that you seem to feel like breast implants make a transwoman somehow superior.

The fact that you don't either stand by your statement or articulate it better instead of walking away from the conversation doesn't exactly help the situation. If you really do feel like breast implants make the woman, then I'll respect that. I'll disagree wholeheartedly, but I'll respect it as your opinion which is all I've ever asked anyone to do for me. I don't know about you but I'm just trying to get through life the best way I know how like many girls here.

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

Well according to HER. It's Join the 'boobs league' or be cast out as a hoax? At least that's my impression of what she was saying. ;)

~Kisses.

HTG

You have no idea how painful it is for me to agree with you, but unfortunately, I have to.

I like you Nicole, but yours is a pretty arrogant and divisive opinion. I may joke and call her Hara Tboy and all that, but I think's pretty obvious that it's because I'm mad at her at the moment, not because I really think she's manly. I may not like her, but I don't really think that either. :(

~BB~

Yeah, I know. People got prides. Sometimes we have to set them aside for when a real issue such as this arise. Nicole clearly means segregation..a hierarchy of some sorts amongs tg's. As IF tg's with implants are the real trannies..but on her other post she was stating that primary or secondary doesn't really make any sense. Seems the same to me.

I even remembered her telling me that she hates people who don't live full time as a girl..I won't name names here but I'm pretty sure they know who they are.

So let's bury the hatchet?
I'll take my sig off, you take yours?

;)

~Kisses.

HTG

Gladly. Truce. Let's all try to keep it civil out there. We all have opinions and we shouldn't have to flame war each other to defend them. I went back and re-read the duke chutes thread and I think we both got a little too snippy a little too soon although I still think we're going to disagree on a lot of things.

Unfortunately, making up does nothing for our post counts, so maybe we should have contrive a new argument to keep things interesting around here? :lol:

~BB~

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

That's actually typcal Nicole behavior. She thinks, her implants made her the woman she is today! I mean, did you see how she was trashing out (lemme use her term) cd's on HD? Do you know how much of the threads on the anon forum was hers to begin with..But then she would post in it to make it appear it wasn't her (ala Monica)? lol Sane isn't it?

:lol:

This is what happens when people got too much time on their hands cooped up inside their apartment.

~Kisses.

HTG

[poolster]

this is some lol-worthy shit i was bored till now so thanks!

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

Well according to HER. It's Join the 'boobs league' or be cast out as a hoax? At least that's my impression of what she was saying. ;)

~Kisses.

HTG

You have no idea how painful it is for me to agree with you, but unfortunately, I have to.

I like you Nicole, but yours is a pretty arrogant and divisive opinion. I may joke and call her Hara Tboy and all that, but I think's pretty obvious that it's because I'm mad at her at the moment, not because I really think she's manly. I may not like her, but I don't really think that either. :(

~BB~

Yeah, I know. People got prides. Sometimes we have to set them aside for when a real issue such as this arise. Nicole clearly means segregation..a hierarchy of some sorts amongs tg's. As IF tg's with implants are the real trannies..but on her other post she was stating that primary or secondary doesn't really make any sense. Seems the same to me.

I even remembered her telling me that she hates people who don't live full time as a girl..I won't name names here but I'm pretty sure they know who they are.

So let's bury the hatchet?
I'll take my sig off, you take yours?

;)

~Kisses.

HTG

Gladly. Truce. Let's all try to keep it civil out there. We all have opinions and we shouldn't have to flame war each other to defend them. I went back and re-read the duke chutes thread and I think we both got a little too snippy a little too soon although I still think we're going to disagree on a lot of things.

Unfortunately, making up does nothing for our post counts, so many we should have contrive a new argument to keep things interesting around here? :lol:

~BB~

Agreed! I actually feel it was a long and painstaking miscommunication that segued into the ugly (I dunno how FK put it to me on twitter). lol

Probably so..though faking it now won't be close to funny. :lol:

~Kisses.

HTG

[BellaBellucci]

That's actually typcal Nicole behavior. She thinks, her implants made her the woman she is today! I mean, did you see how she was trashing out (lemme use her term) cd's on HD? Do you know how much of the threads on the anon forum was hers to begin with..But then she would post in it to make it appear it wasn't her (ala Monica)? lol Sane isn't it?

:lol:

This is what happens when people got too much time on their hands cooped up inside their apartment.

~Kisses.

HTG

I'm not crazy about CD's myself though. I certainly don't hate them, but I don't think they're women. Sorry.

Early transitioners are a different story. If their intention is to become full time then in my mind they're genuine no matter what they look like, but Nicole does have a point that there are a LOT of fakes out there. Even you have to agree with that since you initially thought I was one of them. I don't know if you said so in anger or what, but you did try to pin the 'secondary' label on me. I don't think it's helpful for anyone to be so quick to make that judgment. Let's let people define themselves by their views, attitudes, actions, and lifestyles... not define others by their silicone or temporary lack thereof.

~BB~

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

That's actually typcal Nicole behavior. She thinks, her implants made her the woman she is today! I mean, did you see how she was trashing out (lemme use her term) cd's on HD? Do you know how much of the threads on the anon forum was hers to begin with..But then she would post in it to make it appear it wasn't her (ala Monica)? lol Sane isn't it?

:lol:

This is what happens when people got too much time on their hands cooped up inside their apartment.

~Kisses.

HTG

I'm not crazy about CD's myself though. I certainly don't hate them, but I don't think they're women. Sorry.

Early transitioners are a different story. If their intention is to become full time then in my mind they're genuine no matter what they look like, but Nicole does have a point that there are a LOT of fakes out there. Even you have to agree with that since you initially thought I was one of them. I don't know if you said so in anger or what, but you did try to pin the 'secondary' label on me. I don't think it's helpful for anyone to be so quick to make that judgment. Let's let people define themselves by their views, attitudes, actions, and lifestyles... not define others by their silicone or temporary lack thereof.

~BB~

I know, but that was a 'joke'. Like you kid me about bottoming or my nose (i don't recall now which one sparked me to use that on you). lol

I think, people are what they are - beginners (cd's), intermediate (hrt) or advanced (with surge). Whatever floats their boat. It's not like I'm going to be a part in any of their sex tryst anyways, right? lol ;)

Agree with the underlined. Different strokes, for different folks!

~Kisses.

HTG

[BellaBellucci]

That's actually typcal Nicole behavior. She thinks, her implants made her the woman she is today! I mean, did you see how she was trashing out (lemme use her term) cd's on HD? Do you know how much of the threads on the anon forum was hers to begin with..But then she would post in it to make it appear it wasn't her (ala Monica)? lol Sane isn't it?

:lol:

This is what happens when people got too much time on their hands cooped up inside their apartment.

~Kisses.

HTG

I'm not crazy about CD's myself though. I certainly don't hate them, but I don't think they're women. Sorry.

Early transitioners are a different story. If their intention is to become full time then in my mind they're genuine no matter what they look like, but Nicole does have a point that there are a LOT of fakes out there. Even you have to agree with that since you initially thought I was one of them. I don't know if you said so in anger or what, but you did try to pin the 'secondary' label on me. I don't think it's helpful for anyone to be so quick to make that judgment. Let's let people define themselves by their views, attitudes, actions, and lifestyles... not define others by their silicone or temporary lack thereof.

~BB~

I know, but that was a 'joke'. Like you kid me about bottoming or my nose (i don't recall now which one sparked me to use that on you). lol

I think, people are what they are - beginners (cd's), intermediate (hrt) or advanced (with surge). Whatever floats their boat. It's not like I'm going to be a part in any of their sex tryst anyways, right? lol ;)

~Kisses.

HTG

See though? You're still doing it. CDs are CDs. They aren't 'beginner TS' unless they have intentions beyond just wearing women's clothes. And you can't separate 'intermediate' from 'advanced' because those labels imply that a transwoman is less female because of her financial restrictions. You even said this about yourself. According to your labels, you'd only be 'intermediate.' CD's and TS's are totally different, but I think that a TS is a TS is a TS if they are on hormones and are 'fulltime.' Surgery is the icing on the cake, not the path to womanhood. To say otherwise implies that we really ARE still all men because we have penises. I don't accept that physical sex and gender identity are mutually exclusive.

~BB~

[SarahG]

I would say TV's are TV's (for the most part).

CD is a slang term that doesn't really exist in the medical world. What confuses people is its an act (the action of "crossdressing" ), not a condition. That "action" of CDing, is something both TVs, AGs, and not fulltime TS people will sometimes do- but its an action, not a point along a progress line.

Either a person is a TS, a TV, or something else [i.e. AG, androny, there's a surprisingly long list here, none of which being a CD], or some combination of all those (its possible to be both TS and TV). There are FtM TS's who are also MtF TV's. I don't think its common, but it happens. Usually confuses the hell out of people because they assume the various "conditions" are mutually exclusive (I blame that on the fact that shrinks like to force people into a diagnosis of either one or the other as a way of justifying gatekeeping).

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

That's actually typcal Nicole behavior. She thinks, her implants made her the woman she is today! I mean, did you see how she was trashing out (lemme use her term) cd's on HD? Do you know how much of the threads on the anon forum was hers to begin with..But then she would post in it to make it appear it wasn't her (ala Monica)? lol Sane isn't it?

:lol:

This is what happens when people got too much time on their hands cooped up inside their apartment.

~Kisses.

HTG

I'm not crazy about CD's myself though. I certainly don't hate them, but I don't think they're women. Sorry.

Early transitioners are a different story. If their intention is to become full time then in my mind they're genuine no matter what they look like, but Nicole does have a point that there are a LOT of fakes out there. Even you have to agree with that since you initially thought I was one of them. I don't know if you said so in anger or what, but you did try to pin the 'secondary' label on me. I don't think it's helpful for anyone to be so quick to make that judgment. Let's let people define themselves by their views, attitudes, actions, and lifestyles... not define others by their silicone or temporary lack thereof.

~BB~

I know, but that was a 'joke'. Like you kid me about bottoming or my nose (i don't recall now which one sparked me to use that on you). lol

I think, people are what they are - beginners (cd's), intermediate (hrt) or advanced (with surge). Whatever floats their boat. It's not like I'm going to be a part in any of their sex tryst anyways, right? lol ;)

~Kisses.

HTG

See though? You're still doing it. CDs are CDs. They aren't 'beginner TS' unless they have intentions beyond just wearing women's clothes. And you can't separate 'intermediate' from 'advanced' because those labels imply that a transwoman is less female because of her financial restrictions. You even said this about yourself. According to your labels, you'd only be 'intermediate.' CD's and TS's are totally different, but I think that a TS is a TS is a TS if they are on hormones and are 'fulltime.' Surgery is the icing on the cake, not the path to womanhood. To say otherwise implies that we really ARE still all men because we have penises. I don't accept that physical sex and gender identity are mutually exclusive.

~BB~

Whatever is it..don't take the e.g. 'illustration' to heart (I was rushing while eating my late lunch). I know that there are young cd's as much as young transitioners. And also older cd's and older transitioners. ;) Being a ts goes beyond playing dress up (I agree with you on that). It is the 'desire' to live life as the opposite genders they are born with. Agreed with "the icing on the cake, not a path to womanhood" comment.

SarahG did a much better explanation (see above) than me.

~Kisses.

HTG

[BellaBellucci]

I would say TV's are TV's (for the most part).

CD is a slang term that doesn't really exist in the medical world. What confuses people is its an act (the action of "crossdressing" ), not a condition. That "action" of CDing, is something both TVs, AGs, and not fulltime TS people will sometimes do- but its an action, not a point along a progress line.

Either a person is a TS, a TV, or something else [i.e. AG, androny, there's a surprisingly long list here, none of which being a CD], or some combination of all those (its possible to be both TS and TV). There are FtM TS's who are also MtF TV's. I don't think its common, but it happens. Usually confuses the hell out of people because they assume the various "conditions" are mutually exclusive (I blame that on the fact that shrinks like to force people into a diagnosis of either one or the other as a way of justifying gatekeeping).

I reject the gatekeepers. There are doctors out there who get off on the power of it, but there are many who don't. I only work with the latter. Sure, I had to go through a therapist to get hormones, but do you really think that a surgeon should require a separate doctor's note for surgery, say breast implants, when it's clear the person in question has lived as a woman for many years? IMHO, if they can't use their own judgment in these matters, they're not much of a gender specialist. The system is in place for two reasons: to weed out co-morbid psychological conditions that may make a person believe FALSELY believe they are trans and to make sure that everyone in the loop makes a profit. Apparently, they want you to prove your T by paying enough money to essentially buy everyone off.

I'm not bragging here, but my therapist was so convinced of my gender identity that he lied to my doctor about how long I'd been full time. I had only eight sessions with him. Doctors and therapists do this all the time because some understand that the Benjamin Standards are not appropriate for everyone and even hinder some, and I think the trans-medical community overall (sans that douchebag Bailey and his friends) actually knows this full well but is too interested in maintaining the status quo to do anything about it.

The bottom line is that we all are who we are and we all have the freedom to make our own decisions about our own health and while the HBS is helpful to some, I don't feel that a scientific approach to gender identity does anybody any good except for scientists.

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

Nicole do you really think that those of us who can't afford surgeries right now aren't as good as you? That's just wrong unless you're talking about a CD who claims to be TS and has no tits of any kind or something. Some of us have enough naturally feminine features to live very fruitful lives as women without silicon/saline bags in our chests. Hell, I don't even think SRS will make me any more a woman. In my opinion, anyone who is 'fulltime' and has done everything they can possibly do sans surgery (for precisely Hara's reasoning) is VERY much a woman.


Girl, I didn't call you an untrue tranny. That was Hara. Remember? lol ;)

But I never said she's 'manly', so why are you putting words in my mouth? You've been referring to her as male plenty. To me, she's a girl; maybe not a very accomplished tranny, but she registers as female. That, I've seen. She can pass without tits. I'm not dissing her for it. Trust me, there are queens living as men who will shame many a 24/7 tranny. And now we know how much that phenomenon potentially pisses some people off. :P

But I'm not falling to pieces over such shit. It's you two flat-chested broads with the fucking complexes it seems. But why isn't Amy a babbling idiot? She doesn't have implants. Why isn't acting sketchy like you two? Gee, I wonder. Maybe it's because she's not sweating any false validation from a porn forum? I mean, I could be wrong. I don't claim to know Amy, but I like her attitude so far. Much better than either of yours.

But since you can't smooth out the mood swings of your 'mones yet, maybe you two need to still need to duke it out in the TG playpen for a few more rounds. ;)

FACT: Implants don't make you women, but being trannys has made neither of you very secure with yourselves. THAT's obvious.

[BellaBellucci]

FACT: Implants don't make you women, but being trannys has made neither of you very secure yourselves. THAT's obvious.

Thank you Dr. Dupree. I'll try to work on not internalizing your projected inferiority issues that seem to be tempered a bit by the fact that you have implants. Or maybe they aren't? You tell ME, doc!

Insecure is another one of those words that NOBODY I know IRL would pin on me. In fact, if anything it's QUITE the opposite. Perhaps you need to read my interview with Caramel to put this all in perspective?

http://caramelstgirls.com/caramels-interview-with-bella-bellucci/

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

Insecure is another one of those words that NOBODY I know IRL would pin in me. In fact, if anything it's QUITE the opposite. Perhaps you need to read my interview with Caramel to put this all in perspective?

http://caramelstgirls.com/caramels-interview-with-bella-bellucci/


Spam someone else with your kooky diatribes. Your thoughts are like an unattended car alarm at this point on this forum. We're all just waiting for your battery to drain! lol

[BrendaQG]

Allot to respond to sorry for the length.


Well, imho, your boobs are looking good Congrats. Sort out your drama, and good luck to you, sister. :)

Thanks. :oops:

This drama is mostly sorted out. IRL and it seems even on here most people have seen through that little webpage. It says more about the person who made it than the person it was made about.


I've just read this entire thread and here's my two cents:

First of all, whoever did this to Brenda is a stalker but one who clearly has their head (albeit not their heart - I think this was quite excessive) in the right place. Any transperson who supports the further separation of our community into 'gay' and 'autogynephile' is worse than the cisgendered people who do it and since controversial beliefs will always lead to controversy, this should have been expected at one point or another. I'm sorry Brenda. I actually feel a lot of what you say but you had to have known that inconsistent identities get called out pretty quickly around here - especially when you're under scrutiny for what appears to be anti-trans activities.

I can take that, you are entitled to your opinion and have a constitutional right in this great nation to express it. Clearly you thought about the issue. I will say this, it is a shame that recognizing differences has had to lead to differing treatment. This is as much about the history of psychology's relation to transgender people as it is about BBL themselves. (as Sara points out so well). Why is it that you would think that I or Hara Juku T-girl could think we are better than anyone because of sexual preferences? Could the history of people with a certain preference getting better treatment have had something to do with it? How about the HBS people are they really any better considering the hate so many of them seem to have for non-op's etc?

As for inconsistent identities online as I said before thats a security measure. I have different passwords on all the websites I use too, they aren't simple personal facts, and I change them regularly. That's just smart simple security.


P.S. BrendaQG is right, people change after boob implants. The bitch then become even a bigger BITCH. lol


Umm hmm.
This is not a comment about anyone in particular don't think of it as such.

The trouble is sometimes there are people who are sweet and nice and humble and considerate before surgery, who after surgery just go nutz.

[Hara_Juku Tgirl]

To me, she's a girl; maybe not a very accomplished tranny, but she registers as female. That, I've seen. She can pass without implanted tits. I'm not dissing her for it.

Why thank you. I think that's very generous of you. lol Maybe not that accomplished in terms of surge but accomplished nonetheless in my professional life. How about you? lol Oh and I corrected the tits part for you! ;) It's a perk to pass with hormone tits, something you didn't have back when you were flat chested yourself, so don't hate!


But since you can't smooth out your mood swings of your 'mones yet, maybe you two need to still need to duke it out in the TG playpen for a few more rounds. ;)

Oh we had plenty already..no need to re-hash put out flames!


FACT: Implants don't make you women, but being trannys has made neither of you very secure with yourselves. THAT's obvious.

According to who? You? I find that funny because, you've spewed more venom between HA and HD combined. :lol:

~Kisses.

HTG

[SarahG]

Sure, I had to go through a therapist to get hormones,


Actually you didn't have to, DIY hrt has been in the SoC for several years now- just most people don't know it.

At least, that's what its like at the moment. Who knows what kind of fucked up shit will happen on a policymaking level in the future.


but do you really think that a surgeon should require a separate doctor's note for surgery, say breast implants, when it's clear the person in question has lived as a woman for many years?

Actually I think anyone should be able to get breast implants, even if they're none of these things. People should have a right to do whatever they want to their bodies... most (good) surgeons screen their patients anyway with shrinks to make sure they're not completely fucking nuts, even GG's walking in off the street. To require any more than that is overkill, because anyone who can get passed that- can get passed more sessions of the same.

At the moment, letters aren't truly needed for reconstructive surgeries like implants, FFS, etc. Orchis and srs are the only times you're going to find people crazy OCD-like in wanting to see letters, and I think that's only because our society is so completely nuts to begin with whenever something involves genitalia.



Doctors and therapists do this all the time because some understand that the Benjamin Standards are not appropriate for everyone and even hinder some, and I think the trans-medical community overall (sans that douchebag Bailey and his friends) actually knows this full well but is too interested in maintaining the status quo to do anything about it.

Kinda agree. Whenever people say its not about the money, they're wrong. IT IS ALWAYS about the money.

This scenario is no exception. The SoC is NOT, never was, and never will be a set of RULES. It is only a set of GUIDELINES. Doctors are supposed to take protocols into consideration in treating patients, but at the end of the day doctors are oath bound to determine everything on a case by case basis depending on whats best for their patient.

We see this every time a shrink goes "well, you've been with me for 3 months, you've been fulltime for 3 months, but I think we need another 9 months to infinity, to the apocalypse (whichever happens last) to figure out if you're ready for HRT even though you technically MEET the SoC's guidelines."

They're willing to bend the rules to make things stricter, because that gets them more money. They're not willing to do the inverse because they know that if you get what you need, you're out the door and they're out one less customer. Its in their best interest to make the guidelines out to be rules when they're not...hence the "oh well we will lie for you.. this time" to continue the illusion for when they need it in the future.

Why do you think trans therapists are almost always a cash only industry that wholly ignores insurance? Its not hard to find insurance that would cover trans therapy... its the THERAPISTS that refuse to take it.

[BellaBellucci]

As for inconsistent identities online as I said before thats a security measure. I have different passwords on all the websites I use too, they aren't simple personal facts, and I change them regularly. That's just smart simple security.

I never said you had an inconsistent identity. I'm merely pointing out that the identity police have been particularly active lately. I don't really know you so it's nothing personal. That said I just thought it might be helpful if I provided some third party perspective since I'm kind of new around here.

~BB~

[BellaBellucci]

Sarah, I love you! :lol:

~BB~

[Nicole Dupre]

The trouble is sometimes there are people who are sweet and nice and humble and considerate before surgery, who after surgery just go nutz.

And there are people who will resent you for doing what they couldn't. It works both ways.

[Nicole Dupre]

Ok! Is everybody fucking READY?!?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx-NLPH8JeM

[Jericho]

Ok! Is everybody fucking READY?!?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx-NLPH8JeM

Bollywood version of "The Michael Jackson Story"? :?

[BrendaQG]

Ok! Is everybody fucking READY?!?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gx-NLPH8JeM

Bollywood version of "The Michael Jackson Story"? :?

That's just what I was thinking. lol

[peggygee]

The irony though, is that we didn't pick up terms like gay transsexual, autogynephiliac, primary, and secondary - we created them.

Wait what? Are you serious?

"We" did no such thing. Going all the way back to Benjamin's work, the scientists in the field have been making up terms as they go along... not because of how we appear to them, but because they feel they should have the power to control what we do with our bodies. Its not coincidental that for most of the 20th century, your only chance of getting ok'd for SRS through mainstream channels was if you passed all their tests showing you're a 50's stepford wife... meaning; white, middle class SEC status, feminine, straight, without any masculine hobbies, introverted, passive, and for quite a while... so anal as to include not wearing pants (ever; not even girls' pants).

Benjamin himself was a very far right social conservative. If you google him you can see that in the war years he was a straunt eugenics proponent who supported a few powerful forced sterilization programs in the United States including one in California which experimented on children in CA's foster care system (http://books.google.com/books?id=qYHscsPFF-wC&pg=PA260-IA13&dq=nazi+harry+Benjamin&as_brr=3). I've seen books saying that he was a regular guest parties in NYC being hosted by American nazis... note I said NAZIS and not neo-nazis.

A Reich propagandist and spy, named Vierick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Sylvester_Viereck) was recruited by the Germans during the Great War to help swing American public opinion in favor of Germany. When the Nazis came to power they eventually made him the highest ranking spy/propagandist in North America. After the war he would host large parties, usually sex parties at his flat in NYC (http://books.google.com/books?id=SX4B7pNG3W8C&pg=PA105&dq=nazi+harry+Benjamin&as_brr=3)where all the continent's fascist policymakers would congregate. Supposedly Benjamin was a typical guest to find at these parties, which isn't surprising given his interests in eugenics and forced sterilization.

The fascists and social conservatives had gained virtually complete control over the field of sexology back in the 30's when the Nazis came to power. At the time, the world's LGBT movement was actually in Wiemar Republic Germany, headquartered in Berlin. Consequently several liberal, jewish doctors & scientists flocked to the region to research and experiment with the gay and trans people in the area... and these liberals quickly started defending them and trying to gain them civil liberties after seeing that clearly their patients weren't doing anything bad, and were simply born different. This got them on the Nazis' shit lists in a hurry... when the Nazis came to power, one of their first responses was to go after the sexologists in an attempt to coupe d'tat the entire field of sexology.

To do this the Nazis sent their brownshirts after the sexologists, and carted away all of their private journals, notes, books, personal libraries- everything they can find. You know all those famous photographs and news reels of Nazi book burnings? What most people don't know is that those pictures show the burning of all the sexologist literature the brownshirts could find in Berlin! They effectively destroyed the entire LGBT movement of the time, one that was better organized and larger than any in human history- and most of the work done in the first half of the 20th century and the later half of the 19th century was lost in the book burning fires. After they criminalized homosexuality they arrested roughly 10 thousand gay or trans people in Germany per year, who would then be sterilized, thrown in prison for a few years... and if they survived that, they would be automatically sent to the camps.

The guards themselves were instructed to be especially hard on anyone with a pink triangle, so they were usually got the worst of the beatings, murders, and torture in the camps. Every eyewitness that exists on the regard dealing with gay camp prisoners has remarked about how either they were A- treated abnormally worse then the rest or B- tended not to live for long (see A). The "official" story that you'll find in the textbooks is that only an estimated 5-10 thousand gays were killed in the holocaust, usually with the footnote that the records don't exist to know for sure how many there were... but that number seems very incorrect if taken with the observation that an estimated 10 thousand per year were arrested for stature 175 violations. I wouldn't be surprised if the real count was in the neighborhood of 40k, especially since the gays that did not end up in the camps were then hounded by the police trying to find a different way to arrest them to take them off the streets. I am sure a lot of the criminals thrown into the camps were really just gays who got away with 175 stature violations earlier.

Then the Nazis handed the entire field over to crazy, fascist doctors like Mengele who took the procedures like penile inversion (aka srs) that had been developed by sexologists in the region before (like Abraham) and used them to experiment on children without painkillers... in addition to using it and hrt to try to cure homosexuality. When the war ended these programs didn't just go away, they moved to South Africa and continued using conscripts up until the 1980's.

Why do you think the gender clinics of the US all the way up through the 80s were insisting on MtF's meeting 50s type ideals regarding femininity? Do you really think that's coincidental?

Its never been about defining things as they appear in trans patients. If it was, I doubt we would care so much about trivial things like whether or not the patient owns pants, or is bi. If it was, I bet they would want people to be like regular GG's... not a 50s ideal that is not actually present in our society. The exaggerated, hollywood style femininity they used to want they wanted at a time when it was virtually extinct. That's not about assimilation!

Sarah, great post.

Thanks for it, I will file it, and peruse the sources.

[BrendaQG]

I think for completeness it should be known who one of the people in the "transgender and intersexed" community who did the "investigation" is and what they are like.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/170/484334431_dd1cdcdbba_m.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9GBKpqSxtM)
(Click picture for video)
Joelle Ruby Ryan. Yes she is an accomplished author and scholar (http://www.joellerubyryan.com/), and we should not judge a persons worth by appearances but come on. Really? :-\ Really? :-/ Need I say anything? If your gonna talk about someone else's appearance when this is your absolute best....

Read some of her webpage "Her current research interest are GLBT Studies, feminism, queer theory, ethnic studies, film and media studies, fat studies and sex work." In plain english she is a white person who thinks she can study and know more about "ethnic" (read black and hispanic) people than "ethnic" people themselves. Dito for sex workers. Who on top of it all has turned her sloth and gluttony into a area of study... Liberal arts people get away with such bullshit.

[pablovitalrocks]

HONTAS = HAUNT US

[BrendaQG]

HONTAS = HAUNT US

hmmm that is a good way to explain the pronunciation. I just say it's like Pocahontas without the poca.

I was thinking I could start one of those ask me anything type of threads...but this is basically the same thing.

[blacktgirls]

more flame wars

[Solitary Brother]

Whoever did this is a miserable FAG.

[Silcc69]

http://files.sharenator.com/Thread_Crap_Wont_Die_RE_mega_zombie_forum-s300x371-97014.jpg

[Jericho]

:hide-1: some things should be left in the crypt!

[slingblade]

http://intersexnews.blogspot.com/2009/02/hontas-farmer-investigation.html

wtf...:confused::confused: