Any bets on a Cheney conviction?

[techi]

Anyone think the latest scandal to surface regarding Dick Cheney will land him in jail?

I honestly think Cheney should already be behind bars but based on what Seymour Hersh has said I understand why prosecuting him is both dangerous and complicated.

Either way, I think they need to prosecute Cheney and some of the top administration lawyers that gave the green light for much of what's gone on in the last 8 years. We aren't going to improve the country by going after marines or prison guards for obeying the chain of command... it's the people at the top who should have known better. If anything, members of the military had been falling on thier own swords to stop Cheney. We'd prolly already be at war with Iran if Admiral Fallon and others had not resigned.

Not handing out pardons to members of his administration was probably the best thing that Bush did in 8 years.

Seymour Hersh: Cheney left supporters behind in govt and is still influencing policy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cjFhyUqCrA

Investigative reporter Seymour Hersh describes 'executive assassination ring'

Congress has no oversight of it. It’s an executive assassination ring essentially, and it’s been going on and on and on. Just today in the Times there was a story that its leaders, a three star admiral named [William H.] McRaven, ordered a stop to it because there were so many collateral deaths.
"Under President Bush’s authority, they’ve been going into countries, not talking to the ambassador or the CIA station chief, and finding people on a list and executing them and leaving. That’s been going on, in the name of all of us.
http://www.minnpost.com/ericblackblog/2009/03/11/7310/investigative_reporter_seymour_hersh_describes_exe cutive_assassination_ring

[trish]

After destroying thousands of lives, murdering hundreds of people and even sharing the responsibility for blowing up an entire populated planet, Darth Vader was ultimately forgiven and allowed to stand along side the heros in the pantheon of transcendent Jedi Knights. Not fair, but I'm not betting against it. My feeling is Cheney, like everyone else in that failed administration is going to worm off the hook.

[hippifried]

No. There's laws that have been broken, but there's no enforcement aspects to them. There's no penalties, criminal or civil, written into the legislation.

I have a different question or 2.
Where does Dick Cheney get off giving orders to the CIA? The Vice President has no power. He doesn't have the authority to order a CIA intern to take his feet off the desk. If he had authorization, it had to come directly from the President. One would think that such a blanket authorization has to be public record & in writing. Where is it? Such a document would be tantamount to an abdication.

I've been hearing all kinds of things about Cheney & the CIA for a long time now. Giving direct orders to torture people? What I'm not hearing is anyone challenging his authority. I think the real question has to be: Was this kept from the President too? It was kept from this President for the first 4 or 5 months. Panetta too. Who has higher security clearance than those two? CIA agents know their duties & the laws that govern them. I find it hard to believe that they'd be so naive as to think the Vice President or even the President can order them to ignore their responsibility to keep Congress in the loop.

[El Nino]

Cheney does not give the orders, bro... his bosses do that..

[techi]

Meh, who am I kidding. Cheney is an extremely smart guy who's been in dirty Washington politics all his life. If there was overwhelming pressure to prosecute him he'd have to be suicided just like the DC Madam. Cheney just has too much dirt on people in that town.... especially after the balls to the wall spying on US Citizens that's been going on.

It wouldn't be a hanging but he does have that bumb ticker....

On a side note, I find it sorta funny that people worry that the government is spying on them.... as if the government gives a rats ass that I've spent a decent amount of time browsing the buldging panties HA thread. The real concern is that elements in the government could spy on all our local, state and federal officials... blackmail em.

[Rogers]

I think the real question has to be: Was this kept from the President too? It was kept from this President for the first 4 or 5 months. Panetta too. Who has higher security clearance than those two? CIA agents know their duties & the laws that govern them. I find it hard to believe that they'd be so naive as to think the Vice President or even the President can order them to ignore their responsibility to keep Congress in the loop.

The only thing in Bush's favor is that his brain has been too rotted by years of cocaine abuse for him to truly know exactly what is and was going on around him. The best we can realistically hope for is that Cheney's next heart attack finally does him in before he gets another shot at power. This is a really, really sad reflection on the state of things. But the truth is, these guys have tried their damndest to rival the Nazi's in their manipulative and evil crookery. And what does it say about the system that lets them get away with what they've done scot-free?

[techi]

The only thing in Bush's favor is that his brain has been too rotted by years of cocaine abuse for him to truly know exactly what is and was going on around him. The best we can realistically hope for is that Cheney's next heart attack finally does him in before he gets another shot at power. This is a really, really sad reflection on the state of things. But the truth is, these guys have tried their damndest to rival the Nazi's in their manipulative and evil crookery. And what does it say about the system that lets them get away with what they've done scot-free?

Yup, it's very sad. Although it doesn't seem like all Cheney's allies have gotten away scot-free. Phillip Merrill, Cheney's personal friend and the man that Cheney hired to run the Export Import Bank(Iraq reconstruction), was found at the bottom of the Chesapeake Bay in 2006 with a shotgun blast to the head and an anchor around his feet.
http://civillibertarian.blogspot.com/2006/06/not-so-strange-case-of-philip-merrill.html

[trish]

...it doesn't seem like all Cheney's allies have gotten away scot-free. Phillip Merrill, Cheney's personal friend and the man that Cheney hired to run the Export Import Bank(Iraq reconstruction), was found at the bottom of the Chesapeake Bay in 2006 with a shotgun blast to the head and an anchor around his feet. True, and Harry Whittington didn't get off scot-free either...but at least he's alive. The moral: try to avoid be[ing] friends with Darth Cheney.

[edit in square brackets]

[chefmike]

Cheney does not give the orders, bro... his bosses do that..

Now that there is a bona fidy no-shitter, podna!! It's prolly them dang illuminati fellers agin, aint it Kaczynski?

Can't put nuthin past you... :lol:

[El Nino]

Chef, haha, nice smear attempt, asswipe... Get a life

[chefmike]

Chef, haha, nice smear attempt, asswipe... Get a life

El Ninny, haha, if the tinfoil hat fits...

[techi]

...it doesn't seem like all Cheney's allies have gotten away scot-free. Phillip Merrill, Cheney's personal friend and the man that Cheney hired to run the Export Import Bank(Iraq reconstruction), was found at the bottom of the Chesapeake Bay in 2006 with a shotgun blast to the head and an anchor around his feet. True, and Harry Whittington didn't get off scot-free either...but at least he's alive. The moral: try to avoid be[ing] friends with Darth Cheney.

[edit in square brackets]

Haha, too true. It's not healthy to be his enemy either. All in all it's just best that he doesn't know you at all.

Chief Constable Michael Todd, - Appointed to investigate the extraordinary rendition conducted by the CIA in the UK. He went for a walk and died of exposure.

Swedish Foreign Minister Anna Lindh - Opposed extraordinary rendition in Europe. Stabbed to death in a ladies department store.

[El Nino]

Chefmike, your pipedream of everything being related to tinfoil somehow doesn't hold water anymore; as proven again and again. Please aquire some new material for your vocabulary arsenal, thanks!

[techi]

Obama's DOJ is working hard to block the release of Cheney's disclosures to special investigators 5 years ago regarding the Valerie Plame affair.

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14502

[Rogers]

Obama's DOJ is working hard to block the release of Cheney's disclosures to special investigators 5 years ago regarding the Valerie Plame affair.

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14502

Two words: Brewster Jennings. :wink:

A. Q. Khan's Nuclear Network
Plame Wilson/Brewster Jennings Connection
http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?aq_khan_nuclear_network_tmln_us_intel ligence_on_pakistani_nukes=aq_khan_nuclear_network _tmln_plame_wilson_brewster_jennings&timeline=aq_khan_nuclear_network_tmln

"Now the US is flying blind--just how Cheney wanted it."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/3/16838/88864

Masters Of War (by Bob Dylan)
Come you masters of war...
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks...
You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy...
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly...
Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive...
You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled...
And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muQRIUVd6Aw

[techi]

Obama's DOJ is working hard to block the release of Cheney's disclosures to special investigators 5 years ago regarding the Valerie Plame affair.

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14502

Two words: Brewster Jennings. :wink:

A. Q. Khan's Nuclear Network
Plame Wilson/Brewster Jennings Connection
http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?aq_khan_nuclear_network_tmln_us_intel ligence_on_pakistani_nukes=aq_khan_nuclear_network _tmln_plame_wilson_brewster_jennings&timeline=aq_khan_nuclear_network_tmln

"Now the US is flying blind--just how Cheney wanted it."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/3/16838/88864

Masters Of War (by Bob Dylan)
Come you masters of war...
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks...
You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy...
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly...
Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive...
You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled...
And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muQRIUVd6Aw

Rogers, I'm not sure I get what you are saying here. Are you suggesting that Cheney was basically acting as a mole for private interests(w/regards to the Plame affair)?

[q1a2z3]

...it doesn't seem like all Cheney's allies have gotten away scot-free. Phillip Merrill, Cheney's personal friend and the man that Cheney hired to run the Export Import Bank(Iraq reconstruction), was found at the bottom of the Chesapeake Bay in 2006 with a shotgun blast to the head and an anchor around his feet. True, and Harry Whittington didn't get off scot-free either...but at least he's alive. The moral: try to avoid be[ing] friends with Darth Cheney.

[edit in square brackets]

Dick/Darth is a buddy of mine. The fix is in and he will continue to be free!!! Dick/Darth said at one of the debates that if we didn't sell weapons to Iran then someone else would. Government will get very interesting when two parties trade decades and execute the opposite parties winners. Again this just brings the second American Revolution sooner than later.

[Rogers]

Rogers, I'm not sure I get what you are saying here. Are you suggesting that Cheney was basically acting as a mole for private interests(w/regards to the Plame affair)?

Brewster Jennings was a front company set up by the C.I.A. to track nuclear proliferation in the middle-east. The outing of Valerie Plame was petty revenge against her husband who said that the Niger documents linking Saddam to Uranium were fakes. This was the prime reason given for the second Gulf War, but the whole affair was really a sideshow which covered Cheney's real goal. The C.I.A.'s work could have easily continued without her, but Brewster Jennings took years to set up. The C.I.A. were right about the lack of evidence for nuclear weapon programs in Iraq and in the Neo-Cons' (and Israel’s) next target Iran. The Plame leak and the "Office of Special Plans" were deliberate attempts to prevent the C.I.A. from finding out the truth about quite a few things.

Cheney isn't a mole for private interests, he IS a private interest.
Cheney's Halliburton Ties Remain
Contrary To Veep's Claims, Researchers Say Financial Links Remain
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/politics/main575356.shtml
Lizzie Cheney - The Pride of Lockheed Martin - Speaketh
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larisa-alexandrovna/lizzie-cheney-the-pride-o_b_39398.html

And he’s not been the only Neo-Con war-profiteer:
Richard Perle owns Trireme.
http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=trireme_partners_lp_1

Douglas Feith used to work for Northrop Grumman.
War Pays
Douglas Feith's Platinum Parachute
"Northrop Grumman, the country's third largest defense contractor, secured contracts to build new weapons systems such as the unmanned predator drones. The firm is the prime contractor for the Global Hawk Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV). Bush proposed $12 billion for UAV development for the years between 2004 - 2009. Northrop earned a company record of $11.1 billion in defense contracts in 2003."
http://www.counterpunch.org/pringle09092005.html

It was Feith who signed the Halliburton contract for Iraq.
The Paper Trail
"The e-mail says Feith approved arrangements for the contract "contingent on informing WH [White House] tomorrow. We anticipate no issues since action has been coordinated w VP's [Vice President's] office." Three days later, the Army Corps of Engineers gave Halliburton the contract, without seeking other bids. TIME located the e-mail among documents provided by Judicial Watch, a conservative watchdog group."
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101040607-644111,00.html

It’s cronyism, pure and simple. A large part of A.I.P.A.C. and the A.T.C. is the wheeling and dealing that goes on behind the multi-billions being spent on weapons in the middle-east. Israel has the 4th. biggest armed force in the world. Pakistan was also helped in getting their bomb as a thank you for helping the Reagan administration in Afghanistan. This was done using Israel’s help. This was part of what the C.I.A. were investigating, and the documentary about Sibel Edmonds ("Kill The Messenger") I’ve already linked to explains all of this. This is much, much bigger than Watergate AND Iran-Contra.
Sibel Edmonds' allegations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibel_Edmonds#Allegations
Tip-off thwarted nuclear spy ring probe
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3257725.ece

Now, I'm sorry people don't have the time to look at what I post, but that ain't my fault. This is perhaps why hippi (and others) maybe think I believe it was the Israelis' behind the 9/11 attacks. I don't. I however would not be surprised to find out that the Israelis' knew about what was going to happen.
http://www.christopherketcham.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/Final%20PDF%20of%20CounterPunch%20article%20re%20I sraelis%2001-29-07.pdf
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=575834042418696847
I would also not be surprised if the likes of Richard Perle and Douglas Feith (and others) knew in advance also. And why would they not know with their clear ties to the Israeli Likud Party which was in power at the time?
http://www.israeleconomy.org/strat1.htm

No, the 9/11 attacks were definitely done by very pissed off Arabs. Pissed off for reasons that go hand in hand with the corruption I'm trying to inform you about. And the Neo-Cons got a few of the wars they wanted, and new fortunes, because of it. Keep it simple, stupid. The real question is why wasn't more done to prevent the 9/11 attacks? :wink:

'I Saw Papers That Show US Knew al-Qa'ida Would Attack Cities With Airplanes'
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0402-01.htm
PNAC and the NEOCONs: wanted a new Pearl Harbor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxz06SwfnlU

[techi]

Oh, I agree that the actions of Cheney and the neocons amount to treason. But are the actions of Obama's DOJ simply protecting Cheney or do Cheney's disclosures amount to state secrests? Given that Plame&Brewster Jennings Corp are already compromised I'm having trouble believing that Cheney's disclosures in the investigation amount to state secrets.

I agree that Israeli intelligence most likely knew about 9/11 in advance. There's no shortage of evidence that mossad had hundreds of agents tracking potential terrorist networks in the US.

However, the idea that some pissed off Arabs did this completely on thier own doesn't sit well with me. Frankly the facts do not support that they were capable of executing the attacks. Nor does it explain how they managed to pick a day on which so many air force drills were occuring. And we have the fact that Donald Rumsfeld inserted himself into the counter-hijacking chain of command just a few months earlier.... Rumfeld himself single handedly slowed down our response to the hijackings in progress.

And yes, the neocons wanted a new Pearl Habor and they got it. They should be the target of much investigation.

[Rogers]

Oh, I agree that the actions of Cheney and the neocons amount to treason. But are the actions of Obama's DOJ simply protecting Cheney or do Cheney's disclosures amount to state secrests? Given that Plame&Brewster Jennings Corp are already compromised I'm having trouble believing that Cheney's disclosures in the investigation amount to state secrets.

I very much doubt that Obama wants any of this coming out. The corruption goes right to the heart of American government and is still ongoing. It's much bigger than Watergate AND Iran-Contra. It'll completely derail his Presidency.

THE HIGHJACKING OF A NATION
Part 1: The Foreign Agent Factor
Part 2: The Auctioning of Former Statesmen & Dime a Dozen Generals
By Sibel Edmonds
http://www.nswbc.org/Op%20Ed/Op-ed-Part1-Nov15-06.htm
http://www.nswbc.org/Op%20Ed/Part2-FNL-Nov29-06.htm


Nor does it explain how they managed to pick a day on which so many air force drills were occuring. And we have the fact that Donald Rumsfeld inserted himself into the counter-hijacking chain of command just a few months earlier.... Rumfeld himself single handedly slowed down our response to the hijackings in progress.

Do you have any links about this, techi? The fact that fighters were only scrambled AFTER the Pentagon was hit has always been the most troubling thing about 9/11 to me after the number of casualties. The idea that it took some General coming back from his coffee-break to find his office gone to lift up the phone to NORAD is highly laughable at best. The C.I.A. were not wrong about W.M.D.s', they were hamstrung. I struggle to believe that the Airforce were incompetent too, but I still believe it was pissed off Arabs who flew the planes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_advance-knowledge_debate

Wolfowitz chilling speech
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcxI5wpDueE

[El Nino]

...

[techi]

And we have the fact that Donald Rumsfeld inserted himself into the counter-hijacking chain of command just a few months earlier.... Rumfeld himself single handedly slowed down our response to the hijackings in progress.

Do you have any links about this, techi? The fact that fighters were only scrambled AFTER the Pentagon was hit has always been the most troubling thing about 9/11 to me after the number of casualties.

After further research it turns out that the Secretary of Defense was inserted in 1997, the 2001 orders were a minor revision of the 1997 policy. You can see for yourself but it looks to me like the key change came in 1997, not 2001.
http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01a.pdf
http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/cjcsi/3610_01.pdf

Here's a decent rundown of Rumsfeld's unavailability during the 9/11 attacks. Also, it's states pretty clearly in the documents above that the Secretary of Defense plays an integral role in authorizing the use of military aircraft in the case of civilian hijacking. Has Donald Rumsfeld ever explained his actions(lack of) on that morning?
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_2026.shtml

But yeah... no aircover for our capital on 9/11. Not even any ground to air defense as far as I've read.

[hippifried]

The time between the first crash & the third crash was 51 minutes. A plane crash is not necessarily a terrorist attack. Nobody was really sure what was happening until 17 minutes in, when the second plane hit the WTC. A scramble is fast, but it isn't instantaneous, & it doesn't do a lot of good to put planes in the air if you don't know where they need to go. Our defenses have always been geared to attacks from outside. This was coming from the heartland. First thing is an analysis of the air traffic nationwide, to see where the deviations are if any. Then figure out where they're going. Since they're attacking New York, that's where you start. 34 minutes later, the third crash happens in DC. No scramble was going to stop what happened. I can guarantee that the pilots were suited up & either headed for their planes or already in them when Rumsfeld gave the scramble order. That was a formality.

[techi]

I very much doubt that Obama wants any of this coming out. The corruption goes right to the heart of American government and is still ongoing. It's much bigger than Watergate AND Iran-Contra. It'll completely derail his Presidency.

THE HIGHJACKING OF A NATION
Part 1: The Foreign Agent Factor
Part 2: The Auctioning of Former Statesmen & Dime a Dozen Generals
By Sibel Edmonds
http://www.nswbc.org/Op%20Ed/Op-ed-Part1-Nov15-06.htm
http://www.nswbc.org/Op%20Ed/Part2-FNL-Nov29-06.htm



Sibel Edmonds doesn't understate things when she talks about foreign agents. Two of the hijackers( Nawaf al-Hazmi & Khalid al-Mihdhar ) have been linked to Prince Bandar and Saudi Intelligence thru thier handler in the US( Omar al-Bayoumi ).
http://www.historycommons.org/essay.jsp?article=essaykhalidandnawaf

Further, Nawaf al-Hazmi & Khalid al-Mihdhar had an international history of Islamic militancy, having fought in both Bosnia and Chechnya. It's likely that much of thier funding has come via the Al Yamamah slush fund ( long running corrupt BAE-Saudi oil for arms kickback arangement ).
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=9008
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Yamamah

So investigating those 2 hijackers has the potential to open some pretty big cans of worms for both the Saudi's and the British.

Personally I'd recommend Robert Baer's book "Sleeping with the Devil" regarding how Saudi money&influence works in Washington DC.
http://www.amazon.com/Sleeping-Devil-Washington-Saudi-Crude/dp/1400050219

[techi]

I can guarantee that the pilots were suited up & either headed for their planes or already in them when Rumsfeld gave the scramble order. That was a formality.

Rumsfeld was no where to be found until after the Pentagon hit. Read up on Rumsfeld's activities that morning:
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_2026.shtml

Honestly Hipi, it sounds like you are in the Condi Rice "no one could have ever in a million years immagined that terrorists would have used planes as weapons" camp.

[hippifried]

Well, you can accuse me of naievity if you want, but where's the refutation of what I said? You guys are just chasing ghosts. Rumsfeld was doing what he was supposed to be doing. Garnering information. Whether anybody had anticipated that kind of attack or not, & someone probably had, nobody was expecting it to happen that morning. Equating getting caught off guard, or not getting the response exactly right in the time alloted, with being in on the attack is just silly.

[Rogers]

Well, you can accuse me of naievity if you want, but where's the refutation of what I said? You guys are just chasing ghosts. Rumsfeld was doing what he was supposed to be doing. Garnering information. Whether anybody had anticipated that kind of attack or not, & someone probably had, nobody was expecting it to happen that morning. Equating getting caught off guard, or not getting the response exactly right in the time alloted, with being in on the attack is just silly.

No, not asking questions is silly, hippi.

9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by Pentagon
Allegations Brought to Inspectors General
Washington Post (2006)
""We to this day don't know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us," said Thomas H. Kean, the former New Jersey Republican governor who led the commission. "It was just so far from the truth. . . . It's one of those loose ends that never got tied."

Although the commission's landmark report made it clear that the Defense Department's early versions of events on the day of the attacks were inaccurate, the revelation that it considered criminal referrals reveals how skeptically those reports were viewed by the panel and provides a glimpse of the tension between it and the Bush administration."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/01/AR2006080101300.html

[hippifried]

The only questions being asked is why somebody didn't do something. Jumping to conclusions & asking questions isn't the same thing.

What I notice about all of this conspiracy nonsense is that nobody takes basic incompetence into account. When there's a screw up or delay of some kind, there's seems to be an automatic assumption of sinister intent. Sorry, but that just doesn't make sense. It discounts the human factor.

[Rogers]

The only questions being asked is why somebody didn't do something. Jumping to conclusions & asking questions isn't the same thing.

What I notice about all of this conspiracy nonsense is that nobody takes basic incompetence into account. When there's a screw up or delay of some kind, there's seems to be an automatic assumption of sinister intent. Sorry, but that just doesn't make sense. It discounts the human factor.

You are assuming that I'm jumping to conclusions. I'm not. Asking questions never does amount to such a thing, and never will. I've already suggested incompetence, and that may indeed be all that there is to it, but that doesn't get away from the fact that the D.o.D. were LYING about this also for years. Pushing a lie over an extended period of time always tends to suggest a deeper problem. For example: W.M.D.s' in Iraq, and Atta meeting Iraqi Officials in Prague. There have been far too many lies told. Assuming that people will not start thinking that there may be some kind of conspiracy going on, "discounts the human factor".

Like it or not, the Bush administration most definitely did conspire to start an aggressive war against a foreign country it did not like. This makes the Second Gulf War illegal under international law and consequently a war-crime. The conspiracy MAY go deeper???

[hippifried]

CYA goes hand in hand with incompetence. The pentagon has everybody buffaloed into thinking they know what they're doing. Warriors are all heros who can do no wrong. "Supprt the troops!", & blah blah blah. It's all about protecting that blank check. We've been in war mode since 1941. Military spending has been propping up the economy since the depression. There's so much money involved that a major revelation of how screwed up they really are could crash the whole system. Ended up doing it anyway.

The Iraq war was in the works back in '91 & '92. Afghanistan just put it on hold again. There's not going to be any war crimes charges brought against the winners. We need to just start changing how we do things & stop worrying about who to blame for the past.

[beandip]

"Anyone think the latest scandal to surface regarding Dick Cheney will land him in jail?"


No

[techi]

The only questions being asked is why somebody didn't do something. Jumping to conclusions & asking questions isn't the same thing.

What I notice about all of this conspiracy nonsense is that nobody takes basic incompetence into account. When there's a screw up or delay of some kind, there's seems to be an automatic assumption of sinister intent. Sorry, but that just doesn't make sense. It discounts the human factor.

Oh I think there's plenty of incompetence to go around. But unless the facts around 9/11 are truely investigated we will never understand the nature of the mistakes and are likely to repeat them.

If by "basic incompetence" you mean a small army of Homer Simpson clones all accidently pressed the red button in the nuclear power plant they worked in on the exact same day... I don't think that's an answer for what happened on 9/11. On the one hand you ask us to believe that some misfits centered around a cave in Afghanistan can pull off a large scale first rate military strike on US soil and on the other hand you have to believe that well trained and organized US military personel are all a bunch of screwups. Keep in mind, accounts of the hijackers flying skills label some of the 9/11 pilots as being unable to steer a Cessna let alone a jumbo jet.

And it's a fact that two powerful factions in US establishment published papers calling for a new "Pearl Habor" to revitalize the United States. The neocons in thier "Project for a New American Century" and the Zbigniew Brzezinksi(Rockefeller's guy) said much the same thing in "The Grand Chessboard". Combine that with the fact that the 9/11 Commission was a crappy investigation that left much unanswered and you get to where we are today.

[techi]

I've never seen an ex-VP stay in the news like Cheney:

The Cheney plan to deploy the U.S. military on U.S. soil
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/07/25/military/

I like this bit at the end:

As several commenters note, this revelation about Cheney sheds new light on the reason many people were concerned by prior reports that a U.S. Army brigade, for the first time, was being permanently deployed to the domestic U.S. Many of us expressing that concern were accused of indulging bizarre paranoia that the U.S. Army would ever be deployed against U.S. citizens on U.S. soil. I wonder how those who made such shrill accusations feel now in light of today's revelation that Cheney was advocating for precisely that.

[techi]

CIA interrogators threatened to kill and rape relatives of detainees
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/6084571/CIA-report-interrogators-threatened-families-of-detainees.html

Filing this one under our ex-Sotto Capo because all roads seem to lead to him at the end of the day.